The Top 10 Movie Plot Twists and ‘The Drama.’ Plus: ‘The Super Mario Galaxy Movie’ Certainly Exists.

I'm Sean Fantasy and this is the big picture a conversation show about drama, mind games, Mario and Yahoo! On today's show, we will dive into two new releases that could not be farther apart in terms of target audience craft and cultural appeal. The first movie I'm talking about is Christopher Borgley's new Doomcom The Drama, which stars in Daya and Robert Pattinson as an engaged couple whose relationship takes a twist in the lead up to their wedding. The second movie is the Super Mario Galaxy movie, which is the sequel to 2023's smash-hit Super Mario Brothers movie, one of these movies is for kids, one of them is for arrested development millennials, one hinges on a twist, the other is without a brain, we're also going to talk about our favorite movie plot twist ever, which is related to one of these two movies I won't say which, but first we have some movie news to get into right after this. For adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms, every choice matters. 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What pairs with the good comedy, the cozy blanket arriving with prime. What pairs with the nail-biting thriller, snacks arriving with prime. What pairs with the big game on prime video, that new couch arriving with prime. Whatever feeling you're after, prime helps bring it to life. With great entertainment and fast shipping that delivers what the moment calls for. From streaming to fast shipping, it's on prime. I'm back from a spring break. Welcome. Thanks. There's been some news. Yeah. There's going to be a weapon spree cool. Yeah. How long on to the news were you? Wow, on spring break. Not at all really. Not at all. Not at all. I don't know. I mean, I was closely tracking the price of gas in this country, which seems to be a serious issue. Yeah. Are you you're just logging on to that? Well, I don't, I drive an EV. So I don't really follow that. Oh, right. Okay. Yeah, welcome. It seems to be a real issue. Yeah, the coastal is with the EVs. Yeah. It's a nightmare. EVs are spread across this fine country and frankly, they're going to spread even more on based on what's happening here in America. Okay, no weapons. There's going to be a prequel, Gladys, which I think we understood what's going to happen after the breakout success of that movie. It's going to be written by Zach Kregger, who of course wrote the original, and Zach Shields. I say Gladys, you say what? Is Amy Madigan involved or is it like a younger Gladys? Maybe in like a bookended way, right? We see her like at the beginning of the movie to situate the audience and then we see her at the end, getting her flesh torn off of her body. Okay. But then in the middle, it is who Phoebe Dindiver is said in the 1940s. I believe in Zach Kregger and his imagination and his relationship to the character Gladys and showing messed up funny things on screen. I'm very pro. Phoebe Divener or Divener in the 1940s. It doesn't on its face jump out to me as like the most exciting idea. What if it goes back to the Salem S. Chewsitz and the Witch Trials and Gladys is actually hundreds of years old? Okay. That could be an option. It could. I mean, anything could happen. Missingery and misogyny across centuries of American existence. Would you be signing up for that? We agree because it's starting in the Salem Witch Trials and then we're jumping through various gender crises. Yeah. The same with the sort of Vlad the Impaler Dracula is lived for centuries. But Sue, how does Gladys age is a question I would pose to you in that context? Is it the same? Well, how does she not age is really the question. Right. But she is aged in weapons. Sure. She is older. And if she sprung to life like that, then why can't Amy Madigan be at the Salem Witch Trials and then? Or are you having a young Gladys who then ages progressively but more slowly over time? I think Gladys is in a race against aging. Okay. So that she does it. Well, I don't care what some of us do. And I think that what her character is doing is that as each day goes by, she's trying to fight back the dawn, you know, she's trying to get a little bit of youth injected back into her system. Right. There is a kind of like ultimate crone that is, that is like is unstoppable. Like she will eventually become a hundred years old. But she can revert back to a younger form, the more souls that she's in there. The more young souls. She's got to find various groups of children in peril over the time. So I guess Salem Witch Trials is available, but you can really. The Crusades? I was going to say the plague. The plague, sure. Let's see. What else? I mean, you know, bad things have happened to children and adults throughout history and all forms. We're, you know, we're on the brink of Easter, you know, Christ has risen. Like maybe she was there with punches pilot, you know? Can I share, can I share a take with you unrelated to the films? She was just. She brought it up. I can't believe you've been asked if you could. Easter? Eh, I'm out. I'm like, it's, I just, you know, I, everyone's real excited and I will come to the Easter egg hunt or whatever, but I guess it was just that Easter wasn't really big in my childhood. I don't really know what you're saying. You mean like in the practice of Christianity? Well, I don't really practice Christianity and I don't super believe in any organized religions, but so that doesn't matter to me. But then the whole fanfare around Easter, you know, we've tried to Christmastize it. Everybody's like, here's a peep, here's an egg hunt. Here's like some, you know, bunnies. Here's like lots. I don't really, I don't think we've done a good job. I'm out. I just, I'm not into Easter. No, thanks. Thanks for letting me know. Yeah. Other things that are happening in the news, Cliff Booth, not coming out this summer. The adventures of Cliff Booth. Yeah. We're from David Fincher in the Quentin Tarantino. Looking at a fall release, maybe theorize that the Attrical released. If you just put a number on how many movie theaters will the adventures of Cliff Booth open in America? How many IMAX screens is Greta getting for the Magicians nephew with you? I don't know what the number is. A boss copy of. I did over the weekend. Yeah. I'm old. Yeah. How are we going to read this together? Okay. I think there are 400 IMAX screens in America. Okay. I could be completely wrong about that. And she's getting all, but she's getting all of them. Yeah. The full run. Okay. So when they want to, they can do a broader. But this isn't going to be IMAX, let's see. 800? Is that high? Is that low? I, so I, that's around the number I've heard that movies like Frankenstein and the Knives Outfilms have gotten sub 1000 but still a very hearty amount. Yeah. I think they got to go over 1000 for a movie like this. Okay. Why are you been making a movie like this? It's a Brad Pitt movie. According to Matt Bellany, he was paid $40 million to start a movie. Why are you even doing it for a streaming movie? That makes no sense. Anyway, maybe at the Venice Film Festival, we don't know, but Netflix does put a lot of movies there. Netflix does put a lot of movies there, including David Fincher's last film, The Killer. And David Fincher was not only there for that premiere, but then he was just walking around in like a creme suit at other premieres, just taking it as long as I didn't. I was seated pretty close to him and I was just like, oh, cool. That's David Fincher. He looks a lot in common. I, I really appreciate everything I know about him, his filmmaking style, his view of the world and his aesthetic choices, which include driving around an old Mercedes convertible, which I have, I've seen him spotted from time to time around LA. Okay. And I, and you do like a double taken, you're like, holy shit. Good for him. You should say, I don't miss it. In fact, you go to Venice. I don't really think that David Fincher warns people saying hi to him, which is one of the things I respect about him. Okay. Fair enough. Did you watch the trailer for back rooms? No. Okay. Well, it's too late now. Okay. Back rooms is a new horror movie from a 24 coming out at the end of May. It is directed by Kane Parsons. Kane Parsons is how many years old do you think? Twenty? He's 20. Yeah. I saw this. I saw it alluded to you. I just, I didn't click through. He's 20 years old. This film stars Chiuotel as you for and Renata Ryan's for it is about seemingly a furniture store that beyond its walls, features an infinite number of rooms is a very trippy, very Kubrickian, very cube-like, mind-fuck of a movie, very good trailer, genuinely depressing to be 43 years old and see that a 20-year-old man has just created something. How can I break you back up? I'm really great. We were talking about this before the recording started. I want you to feel happy. I want you to be restored. You were on spring break and I feel like you came back with a negative outlook. I can only respond to what's put in front of me. What has been presented to me is my own mortality. Okay. No. You know, I'm excited about this movie. - Yeah. - I'm impressed that a young person has been given this opportunity. I hope this movie's great. I have a lot of plans for horror movie coverage over the next three months 'cause we're at the dawning of a new era. - That's great. I'm excited for Truittel Egeo4, who is wonderful. And I always think underused. - I agree. - When I rewatched the Martian, I was like, "Oh yeah, he's so great in this." - Yeah. - Yeah. He was, what is his character's name in the Dr. Strange movies? It's like-- - I, but you're asking the wrong person on that one. - Come on, Jack. - You've rewatched-- - Nope, nope, no clue. - Mordak, Mordau? Morda? Mordau, Mordau. - Mordau. Mordau. - Also just wanna let you guys know that Truittel Egeo4 is in the 2010 classic Salt. Anyone, Jack, you seen Salt yet? - We've talked about this. I have not. We need to get a, this should be like a, what we did with Avatar Way of Water. Watch a long pod for Salt. - Pretty good. - I honestly have no desire to revisit it. (laughing) I had a great time and once again, I'm open to Salt too. Which they clearly set up and then abandoned. - I don't think it's gonna happen. - I don't have any. - I don't have any. - Yeah. Bong Joon Ho's next movie ally. We've just seen a first look. It's an animated feature film. There's a cute little squid-like piglet character. - Okay. - He's good at creatures. - Very good at creatures. 2027 animated film, your son says what? - See you there. So I was very cute when we went to see Super Mario Bros. Galaxy, normal film title. Which we'll talk about later. When we got there, I realized he thought he was seeing Project Hill Mary based on remembering the interactive, the big poster featuring Ryan Gosling for Project Hill Mary. And he was like, "No, I saw the poster when we went to Hopper's and he's going to space and he needs a helmet." And I just thought he was describing Galaxy and Super Mario Bros. But Ryan Gosling is not wearing a helmet in the Project Hill Mary poster. And so Knox was just worried about safety. So he's engaged. - The marketing of Project Hill Mary, which of course has been working stunningly well, is very appealing to young kids, which is interesting. - Sure. - Like that stand either you're referring to with a little fancy. - Yeah, and they don't even get to see Rocky. Like he would love Rocky. - Yeah. Yeah, I think it would be a little hard to grasp most of the concepts of Project Hill Mary, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't watch it if you're a little kid. We didn't take out so much. - Wait, I mean, he's still too little and there's too many dead people and it's also two and a half hours long, but. - Yeah, not ideal. Ally pumped for another Bond movie. Next week, at this time, one week from now, we will know the lineup of the Ken film festival. - Okay. - And it appears that the lineup will be relatively light on American filmmakers, which is not shocking per se, but there have been more and more in the last five or six years. - Right. - And this year it seems like maybe James Gray is gonna be there, maybe James Schoenbrun is gonna be there. Maybe the Zellner brothers and that might be it. Speculation that the Joel Cohen movie isn't gonna be ready. We know that stuff like Disclosure Day and Cliff Booth and all those movies are not gonna be going. There will be a great number of international heavyweights, probably among them as Garfharati, Christian Manju, Hamaguchi's new movie was announced. There was a teaser for that this week. All of a sudden, I'm pumped about that, Almodovar, Pavlikowski, a whole bunch of Koryeda. So Nick Wything Reffen. - Yeah, I'm excited about Reffen. And now if Reffen is there, I will track him down. I will track him down and I'll give him a big hug and try to make him uncomfortable. Any pre-game thoughts we will break it down next week on the show and it's announced. - I feel like this base of predicting what will be at the can lineup is pretty crowded already. So I don't really need to insert my opinions. I'm just listening to the experts because we're new. I'm still excited. I'm excited to see what it's about. And obviously, Anora came out of Cannes and some American films do get a boost, but Cannes is also typically the place where we, you know, lowly Americans, learned about the great international films of the year. So it's fine with me. - Me too. I'm curious what the noisy American, maybe Mandalorian Grogu. I'm not sure what the big messy, I guess John Travolta's directorial debut was just announced as playing at the film festival. - How beautiful. - Have you been reading about that following along? Were you on set for that? - High five. - Okay, it's exciting. I'm pumped. I'm pumped. I'm pumped to find out what they're gonna play. I hope there's a couple of surprises. - Yeah. - There is a very active industry of canned predictors in the trades and there's plenty you can read about them right now. Shall we talk about Super Mario? Is there anything else that you want to get into? Any other holidays you would like to bless, Feme? - Easter. You know, I'm happy at spring, but also spring. He is risen. - In like, I really don't care. - Okay. - Like, that's cool. But, you know, it's just, is it his teaching? Is that the daughter? - It's just a metaphor for, you know, the turn of the seasons and every religion has them and that's nice. - I think, I think letting a little God into your life would be powerful. - I had plenty of God in my life growing up and look where it got me. - You had going to things that were organized around your parents' religion, but what about letting God into your life? Have you considered that? - No, I'm good. I'm in charge. - What about Super Mario Galaxy movie? Have you let that into your life? - I would like to nominate this movie for the big pictures coveted evil movie designation, which is a rare fight air, right? Like it's a free guy, fast X, mercy, anything else I forget. - Yeah, wow, we already had one this year. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, evil movies. I took my four year old to see this at 9.30 in the morning and opening day for Spring Break. And we had the time of our lives in that we got to, he was so excited to get to go to the movies. He's really into trailers. I think he's a great movie watcher. It was his first credit sequence, which we almost missed because, once again, his mother refuses to acknowledge the existence of credit sequences. - The start time. - No, no, no, no, no, like the, oh, I'm sorry, the post credits. - Post credits. - Post credits. And so I was glad to have that opportunity. And I don't begrudge anyone who it's looking for to like who takes their child to see this movie. You should, like I did too. But I found this experience, I found this like creatively and aesthetically bankrupt in a way that I was kind of bummed to be sitting next to my kid and exposing my kid to it. And I could also watch him kind of power down. He just had that sort of sedated slop face that was going on throughout the movie. And that's, listen, there are plenty of different ways and like plenty of kids in entertainment to do it. And I also put screens in front of my child to, you know, kill time so I can do the dishes or whatever. But it bummed me out. It bummed me out a little bit more than the first one because it did feel even more, let's just, you know, combine as many different Super Mario things as we can into it. And, you know, it felt a little more commercial grabby. And I just, I know that it's a technical achievement or whatever, but I found it so depressing to look at. - I'm pretty much with you. - Yeah, Eileen joined me seeing the movie with Alice yesterday. And as soon as it was over, first of all, Alice had the time of her life. - That's great. - It was delighted. She loved Rosalina, the new princess, that's boys by Prairie Larson, very Elsa. - I mean, they even were in the same-- - She made clubs. - She date Elsa in the Mario lore. - Okay. - I don't really know, to be honest, because-- - Well, that can be settled between Nintendo's and Disney's lawyers. - She had a great time. She really enjoyed learning that spoiler alert, Rosalina and Princess Peach are, in fact, related. They're sisters. Nothing, my daughter loves more than princesses who are sisters, also very frozen. - Yeah. - But I turned to Eileen afterwards and I said, I thought that was quite dire. And she said that's one of the worst movies I've ever seen in my life. And that's fascinating because this movie is clearly going to be a mega smash and make a shit ton of money. And even dramatically outperform things like Free Guy and Fast X at the box office. I actually have a lot of thoughts. These movies tend to bring out a lot of ideas from me about kind of where movies are and what people want from movies. I think what you're saying is right, which is that this feels like a big agglomeration of a lot of Mario fan service and keys jingling. And remember this character from this game? And remember when you heard this sound effect and it made you feel like this and I think if you're anywhere from the ages of like four to 11, it's fun, it's a lot of fun. And if you're like 20 and you have a lot of nostalgia, or 30 and have a lot of nostalgia for Mario, you will get something satisfying out of this. But it is narratively brutal. There are no characters. There's no defining traits of any of the characters. I thought it is like this very flashy, fast moving 3D animation style that is increasingly prevalent. - Yeah, I don't know if I thought it was ugly so much as I thought it was noisy. - I would agree, like I said, I understand that it is technically accomplished and it doesn't look bad or ugly the way that the third acts of many Marvel movies look bad. It's like we ran out of time and we just didn't have the resources required to achieve what was in our heads. I think it was noisy, frenetic. you know, as we mentioned, there are so many references and like they're not even jokes. They're just like sound cues that are supposed to take you back jammed into this movie. But the pace was really, really shocking in so fast and the cuts are so fast and they move from one like quote unquote problem. Like even faster than you can move through worlds in a super Mario game. And it really did feel like it was edited in that once, you know, that really nefarious, like Coco Melon things that just move so fast on the screen that your child's brain turns off. I totally agree with you. Though thing that this had me thinking about is as the primacy of intellectual property shifts from things like superheroes to video games. And those movies are increasingly engineered for children, you have this pretty dramatic shift in what animated movies are. When we were growing up, they were kind of in the third phase of Disney adapting great works of literature, fairy tales, stories from around the world and recontextualizing them, sometimes whitewashing them, sometimes stripping them of some of their sharper edges and reducing the stories down to very simple ideas, but they were at least based in a certain kind of a work that had some archetypal and cultural value. The last 25 years, things have changed a little bit, the introduction of Pixar, the introduction of 3D animation has changed. I think the tone of a lot of these movies that they have gotten a lot more smart allocate, they've gotten a lot more adult sensibility for, but the stories themselves, there's always been a kind of gentle quality, I would say, to the bulk of children's animated movies. Sure, you're learning about yourself. Yes, they're like emotional, they're internal, they're often very moral. They have a kind of like a an idea about family or an idea about the self or an idea about how you participate in a society. The movies are not perfect, I'm not trying to valorize them at the expense of this other stuff, because there's always been junk and crap for kids. But what making movies around video games does is it makes these movies action movies, because video games are action. They are driven by avoiding obstacles, defeating villains, eluding capture. And so that pace that you're talking about is right on. And part of the reason that it's right on is because it's mimicking what it's like to play a video game where you're in a constant state of movement going from one thing to the next. So now what we're doing is like we're training, and I don't think I'm over intellectual watching this. We're training five year olds or nine year olds to expect action in a discreet and consistent way in these kinds of movies. This isn't the first movie that ever did this, like it has been happening slowly. How to train your dragon is like this, that they introduced fantasy movies in animated form Kung Fu Panda introduced martial arts movies in animated form, the bad guys, those are heist movies, the bad, the like old Batman movie is a superhero movie. So it's not like Super Mario bears the weight of this responsibility, but it does feel like a culmination of 15 or 20 years of animated movies used to be the sanctity of a princess or prince, or someone who's attempting to has a great journey of self-discovery. And now this is a movie about like five different characters in five different places at the same time, and they all are having a crazy adventure, and then they're all going to converge on each other and there's going to be a big fight. And that's what superhero movies are to, you know, that's kind of what most act, that's what the fast franchise does. They split the big groups up and they bring everybody together. And so it feels like very formulaic, and it also is like training us to enjoy a certain kind of a story structure at a very young age. I'm anthropological making this anthropological because I'm very interested in animation and what it does for kids and how they understand stories, but I do think that this is like kind of the bottom of the barrel version of this kind of thing. Like the bad guys, those movies are fine, they're not that bad, they have real characters, they have like fun performances, the scripts are not that bad, they're iterative, but they're a good way to kill time. This, I agree with you, felt something more insidious here. I mean, I think you're right, and FastX is probably the Fast movies are FastX's most app comparison because that is also the bottom of the barrel of that execution of that idea, but it is that the only point of this movie is to watch things go really fast and then explode. And whether it explodes via some purple goo or whether there's like another spaceship, the really intense movement and the more, more, more in the palette is the point. I asked my son afterwards what Super Mario brother's galaxy was about. And he said a ship that shoots lasers, which I think is a little bit the only thing that he could really like glom on to in his mind because he, you know, recognized a ship that shoots lasers. He did also understand that Princess Peach had a sister Rosalina. So he understood siblings and ships that shoot lasers, but that he's not wrong, that's what it was about. There were many different ships that shot lasers. I kind of got bored. Watch, I was like, well, which ship is this? And what are you doing now? Because there's not enough to grab onto. And I did, I was sitting there next to my kid and I was like, I'm being a little bit of a Goldilocks because we came out of Hoppers and we've been talking about like the later stage Pixar movies and particular and saying these are starting to feel like more like for adults than for children. Or, you know, all children's entertainment has now has to have this second layer of like winking reference for the adults to keep them entertained. But you've, you're starting to like see the strings on that. And now I'm saying that this just has absolutely this children's entertainment has nothing for me to grab onto. And so, you know, what will make me happy? I guess what would make me happy is like a good movie that my children and I could relate to that doesn't feel completely bankrupt of all like ideas and human emotion. But that's just me. I don't think it's an unreasonable request. I think it's the movie exists for obvious reasons. It actually is shocking how long it took Nintendo to adapt an animated Super Mario Brothers movie for wide audiences. And the first movie being a big success was not shocking. There wasn't a whole lot to say about that movie because they were introducing the key characters. You had a handful of very famous people supplying the voices. This is a sequel as with all sequels. There needs to be more, more, more, right? There needs to be an expansion of the universe, more characters. And I remember laughing more at the first. It seemed like a more modest film, maybe too. And so in that way, like it just was trying to spin fewer plates. It felt very tightly focused on. There's Mario and Luigi. And then there's Princess Peach. She is the princess of this land that she doesn't even totally understand. She doesn't know where her family is. But you know, they need to basically protect her from Bowser who wants to marry her and kidnap her. That was the whole movie. And that's basically how we understand the Super Mario Brothers video game franchise. That doesn't encompass Mario Tennis and Super Mario Cart and all the Donkey Kong storylines and Mario Paint and Dr. Mario and the myriad Mario games that have come out since I was playing video games in the 80s and 90s. So this movie is trying to have a lot of those things. It's trying to squeeze in a lot of those things. My dumb brain, my lizard brain, as it were. I enjoyed Yoshi. I enjoyed seeing Yoshi in the movie. Alice got a huge kick out of Yoshi. Just doing the egg thing. You know, eating somebody. Yeah, you know, dropping an egg. That person that Yoshi ate was inside the egg. It's a good visual guy. Yeah. But you do that to like 90 minutes. It also happens so quickly. Because this, I mean, this entire movie is on like 3x fast forward. Yeah. And I didn't, it rushed the joke. The joke was almost stepped on. So there's no room to breathe. There's not a lot of room to laugh. It did feel very, feel free. Michael Bay. You put that in the spreadsheet and, you know, it's, you see Michael Bay everywhere, but I think that this is, I think this is correct. Well, Michael Bay is usually doing things visually that seem impossible with humans on set. And sometimes they're dangerous. This is animation. So it's just not impressive. It's just sort of like, it's just a lot going on fast and loud. The, the mourners and just like, how much can we do? And also perhaps a, a disregard for emotion or like moral concerns of any kind. Yes. Does track with Michael Bay? I definitely see it. I think that Michael Bay makes more, if not beautiful memorable images. I agree. What's your take on Bowser Jr? You know, happy for, for Benny to get that check. So did Bowser Sr. or Bowser Jr. put on the puppet show? I believe it was Bowser Sr. for Bowser Jr. who was a, you know, a wonderful audience member. I thought that was a lovely puppet show. And there is another moment, and it's a completely different animation style, right? And then there's another moment when Star Fox, who I didn't know about, but Zach was like very solemnly. Yes, Star Fox. He's very important. Voice by Glenn Powell, who I, I thought did a great job, you know, being Star Fox solo. Yeah. But his introduction is done in like a illustrated, you know, old school style. which I thought was very compelling. But both of those instances took me out of the movie 'cause I was like, oh, you can do something visually interesting, you're just choosing this slot. - Yeah, but that is the lingua franca of the contemporary animation, you know? I wonder if that will change. I wonder what the next phase of that even is because we've seen these various evolutions in style or de-evolutions as it were. I don't know, I'm curious to see. I think this movie is quite poor. - Yeah, any conversation after the movie in your home? - We hit on the same issue, as I mentioned, the sister relationship was very impactful and I think made the movie feel a little more coherent, very clear that Bowser and Bowser Jr. are in trouble. They're not good. I was doing bedtime last night and Alice said, "Dad, I think you might be a Koopa." Which is not good, you don't want to be that. You don't want to be a minion in service of Bowser. That's problematic for me. - What did Alice think of the minion's trailer for minions, God and Monsters? Is that what we're calling it? - Minions and Monsters. - Gods and Monsters is a Bill Condon film about the late filmmaker James Whale as portrayed by Ian McKellen. - Okay. - It was a 1990s Oscar bait film. - You can have it all in the big picture. - Certainly, Ken. This is what we bring to the table. She, Maynorn and Grogo Trailer is Purecrack. It is like the rock star eyes exploding when that comes on. Minions, captive audience. You know what we saw, and it was my first time seeing it. 'Cause as I said, I was not really following the news while I was on vacation, is the Supergirl Trailer. And Alice saw that and she was like, "Who's that? That's my new best friend." - Oh, good, okay. That's good. We found the audience for the Supergirl Trailer. - She's the one. - She's the one. - She's the one. - I think Max kind of perked up. He liked the music cues in the Supergirl Trailer. But, you know, I've never been prouder than when my child just started absolutely cracking up. As soon as the minions did anything, the exact same physical comedy that speaks to me about the minions speaks to him. - That's wonderful. - Yeah. - You guys can see that together. Maybe I'll skip it. Some of his gonna make-- - Nox did want to come to a podcast. I will do my own podcast with Alice. It's gonna be about space. But, and then maybe also minions got it monsters and he can sit in that chair. - That's really exciting. Alice and I did once record a podcast and by record, I mean, she sat in that chair and we didn't record anything. It was about the last unicorn. A wonderful animated film featuring voice work from Angela Lansbury. It is about the last unicorn. - Oh, okay. - If you wanna show that to Nox and do a follow-up, I'm sure that they would do great together. She also is fond of referring to Bill, who is my boss. - Yeah. - Our boss. And when we were making the podcast, she kept turning to the booth and kept saying, "Bill, is that good?" - Where did she learn? - She's met Bill. - Actually, I don't know. I think she probably just heard me talking to Eileen and being like, "Oh, Bill's calling." - Sure. - Or whatever, you know what? And she'd be like, "Dad, who's Bill?" So, sorry, Jack. But I think she thinks that Bill, in addition to being the boss also produces the show. - She does also know about Jack though. And she does have questions about Jack and what Jack is doing. - Well, Jack met both of our children at the K-pop demon hunters video screening. - Yeah, yeah. And I think-- - Do you bloom large? - Yeah. - That's great. I think it's a good question. What does he do? We don't exactly know. - We don't know. - He just does stuff. - I'll never know. Okay. How do we pivot out of 300 million dollars a week in? 500 million dollars? - Yes. - 10 million dollars. - That's made 34 and a half million domestic on a Wednesday. Like, we were there, you know? And 9.30 AM was not the first showing. I think it was maybe the third showing. - Well, I believe there were Tuesday night midnight screenings. - Okay. - Very cool. - Yeah, very normal stuff. - Very normal stuff. - Yes. - Yeah, it's gonna do very well. - That's fine. - So let's-- - Everybody needs something to do during Spring Break. - I certainly do. This episode is brought to you by Volkswagen. There is such a thing as becoming too comfortable in your day-to-day, but our favorite films with stories that make us change the way we think. They weren't made by people content to just sit back and watch the world pass by. This is your sign that you shouldn't either. From us, from VW and the other drivers out there, grab the wheel. Do what you love, even if it means taking the road less traveled. Learn more at www.com. - Let's pivot to the drama. - Yeah. - This is our Super Mario Brothers Galaxy movie. - Absolutely is. Let's, before you say another word. - Okay. - I'm going straight to care more for this one. - Okay. - Do not listen to this until you have seen the drama. I'm serious. It's not even, like, it's not because I don't wanna be yelled at. It's because I want you to experience the movie without spoilers. Turn it off. I mean it. And come back when you've seen the movie. Thank you. - You're absolutely right to set it up that way. This is the new movie written and directed by Christopher Borgley. He was a guest on this show a few years ago for his film Dream scenario. It's his fourth feature film. He's the Norwegian director. It stars Zendaya, Robert Pattinson, Mamadou Athe, Alana Haim, Haley Gates, and Zoe Winters. The plot synopsis is as follows, days before they're wedding, a couple's relationship is shaken when one partner discovers unsettling truths about the other. There is a kind of a plot twist in this movie, and that's why you're setting the table in the way that you are. - Yeah. - But it is really more sort of like a piece of information that is shared, - A reveal. - A reveal that influences the actions of the characters throughout the rest of the movie. It comes reminding me about half an hour into the movie. - Yeah. - Somewhere in that vicinity. So I'll start with what did you think of the drama? - Absolutely, and on this, I loved it. It is, as you said, a doomcom, and it is not what has been portrayed in or suggested in the press tour that has been very heavily wedding focused, and there was the fake announcement, and the Boston Globe, and Zendaya's been wearing like something borrowed, something blue, that they've been doing, like wedding, romantic comedy. - Very materialist, 2.0 marketing. - Exactly, which we'll talk about. But so it is, it takes a different turn, but in many ways, it is also kind of a classical romantic comedy. It knows the beats, and it knows what it is working against, not just the audience's expectations, but also of what happens in these movies, but the actual form, the beats, the set pieces. I think it's very smart. This is my kind of, my kind of scandy perspective. Like sometimes I have a block, but I'm really in line with this view of the world, and I think it pulls it off. I know many people will not think that. I understand that this is gonna be a hot button issue, but I think it totally works. I thought it worked too, I told you that I saw it a long time ago. I think I saw it maybe six months ago, five months ago. And so I was seeing it very cold, and quite enjoyed myself. I have a real affinity for Borg Lee's court gesture, little stinker attitude towards humanity. It is something that is like fairly consistent, I think with some other A24 filmmakers, and he gets lumped in with them. There's a little bit, are you asked, or is it a city? - I mean, are you asked for the producer on this film? - Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. - There is a sense of most people are very vulnerable, fallible, insecure, and bumbling, and stupid. And this movie is an interesting exploration of that from both perspectives. The movie leans more towards Robert Pattinson's character, despite Zendaya being such a big star and such a big part of that marketing that you're describing. We can talk about the utility or lack of utility around that. And whether or not this is really a movie about humanity or just an exercise. As an active entertainment and kind of like provocation, I think it's very successful. And these are the kinds of worlds that you and I have walked in. You know, we've lived in cities in America, we've worked these kind of like white collar computer jobs. You know, we have nice furniture. - With like creative gilding, but you know, they are still just emails and performance reviews. You trick yourself into thinking that you have some sort of creative soul, but in fact, you are a cog and a broader machine and you know, Borgley's very incisive and insightful about the vanity of these people, the frivolity of these people. And also that there is like a real genuine human frailty that like everyone's trying to understand about themselves, but that once you hear about someone else's frailty, it's how quick you are to judge them. - Yeah. - So I think it's pretty clever. I think I could see it being like an amazing script to receive and be like holy shit while reading it, not knowing anything. The movie is wrong footing and odd the audience somewhat. And I'm quite curious to see how they respond to it. But I also think his filmmaking style and his command of tone is very specific and very strong. - His observations, like it is very tightly written, like recognizable, both script and like the production design, all of the details are when they want to be inditing very much art. This movie is also said in Boston quote unquote. And like I don't, I don't think this, I know they filmed in Boston, but like has Christoph or Borgley like ever been to Boston. - I don't know. - I don't know. - Doesn't have the character of Boston outside. - Yeah, like it's, you know, when it wants to attack something or investigate an idea or do an exercise, it's really, really spot on. And then it's. It does leave some other things totally to the wayside. Yeah. Do you think, do you want to say more things about what works so well before getting into that critical piece of information that is revealed to us? Yeah. I mean, as you mentioned, it ultimately is a movie about Charlie, the Robert Pattinson character. And some of that is because of the structure and the reveal. And it is the Zendaya character, Emma, who has this shocking bit of information. And then so you, the audience are put in the perspective, both structurally, but in terms of the story of the movie into Charlie's point of view of what is he going to do? Or how is he going to handle this? So it is, it's a Pattinson movie, more than a Zendaya movie. And I think weird bungling Pattinson, like who's still kind of hot, is amazing. And I think he's wonderfully used and really funny in this. And someone who was more or less confident would not be able to pull this off. Also, I think notably he's not playing an American, like he's obviously not an American in real life, but he does get a little bit of distance from the more America-coded aspect of what's going on in this film, which is definitely not an accident. I never would have guessed that his most favorite screen persona would be Hugh Grant meets Albert Brooks. But like that's sort of where he's going with these kinds of characters. There's a little bit of that in Mickey 17. There's certainly a lot of that in this movie. That's not obviously not his Bruce Wayne. But it feels closest to the personality he shows us in the world, too. He's a little bit dopey, a little silly. But also very insightful. Did you watch any of the clips of another of A24's great marketing gimmicks was that they had the four main actors. So that is Zendaya, Robert Pattinson, Mamaduati, and Alana Haim. Like do a relationship hotline. And they had people call in and ask questions. And Robert Pattinson is the only person speaking any sense throughout the whole. And he's also sort of confronting that one question that's posed is, like I'm supposed to be bridesmaid in a couple weeks. And I don't really like this person. Like what should I do? I don't want to be in the wedding. And the other three people are like, well, you need to have a conversation. You need to be up front. You shouldn't do it. And Pattinson is like, you want to cancel this. You want to tell this person two weeks more, she's getting married. I don't like you. Just say you're sick. 100% the right answer. But. It's obviously not what I would do. What would you do? Obviously just do it and accept it and pretend to perform and just be like, this is fine. Well sure. But I think what we can all agree is that having like an emotional heart to heart. Yes. No, that's not a good idea. But I thought it was telling in the context of the film itself and what is considered like correct social and emotional values versus what actually happens in life, what you're valuing, what you how you should contact yourself. And Pattinson is kind of on the outside both in these videos and in the movie. That's the right way to tee up the revelation too in the movie. So in the film, Zendaya and Pattinson's characters are about to get married and they're going through the steps of potential marriage, which is, you know, they're preparing with photographers and they're, you know, they've picked out a venue and they're doing food and wine tasting. Yeah. So I invited friends to go along to do these tastings and the quartet of people are taking their sweet time at the tasting and they're asking for, is it one more glass of skin contact? Yeah. Could we have another bottle of the skin contact I haven't made up my mind? Right. The sort of the, you know, Petit bourgeois, you know, city dweller, I think skin contact is finally out by the way and I'm so happy. It's finally out. That's another thing I'm, I was never on. Like no, no Easter and no skin contact wine. Okay. They're sort of related, right? Like the blood of Christ. I don't know if that was skin contact or not. Is there a call? Yeah. When the transfiguration happened, transubstantiation, that's what it was. So they're having, they're getting drunk and they're hanging out and there's a woman who's looking after them as they're trying these wines and as is often the case when you're in social settings like this, people start creating these sort of like idea games to keep the conversation going and I believe it's a lot of Hunter's character says, let's go around the table and say, what's the worst thing any of us has ever done? She tees it up, but she's also looking for what she does actually is that she makes her and I will husband tell everyone the worst thing that he's ever done because she's drunk and she explains that they did this before the wedding, but really she just wants, wants it out on the table. Yes. She's a toxic character. I don't remember what the worst thing he has ever done is. I remember what she did, but she would she locked a boy with a, with who was disabled in a, like a shack, he used his girlfriend as a human shield against a dog that was about to attack them. That's right. Yeah. You know, not ideal. No, it's not good, but it's also just sort of, it's the blame there's with the dog and the dog owner, really. Okay. Well, they said he was a street dog. He didn't have an owner. We're not attacking dogs right now. I don't attack dogs. I just attacked dog owners that don't take responsibility for their dogs. They go around the table. It stops its endays character. Yeah. And she reveals the worst thing that she's ever done, which is actually not doing anything. Yes. Once again, we're spoiling. So, you know, do your thing. She reveals that she imagined dreamed and planned a school shooting when she was a teenager in high school in Louisiana and she did not go through with it, but that she did spend a lot of time thinking about it, scheming on it, fantasizing about it. And the tenor of the drinks dramatically changes what happens because this is a, even though the two previous or three previous stories that have been shared are like a little scandalous or a little like, oh, you shouldn't have done that and moralizing about it. But putting people in harm's way in varying degrees. There is obviously a taboo quality, a taboo aspect to school shootings and that level of violence and anyone who's been associated with that kind of violence in our society. And so obviously the two friends are shocked. A lot of time's character is very offended. And Robert Penson's character is in this unusual position in which the person that he is about to agree to spend the rest of his life with, considered engineering a violent mass murder when she was a teenager, didn't do it, but she considered it. Yeah. So the possibility theoretically is there lurking in this person or is it? Now, there's a natural human drama out of this revelation right about what's going to happen. Should these people stay together? How is he feeling in the aftermath of this? And the movie then does spend about 40 minutes kind of like getting close to his skin and like trying to understand how he feels and how he's coping with this information and what he should do and whether or not he sees this person in the same light. The movie is also simultaneously doing something that I find movies are very, don't usually do very well, which is forcing you to think in real time about a moral paradox while a story is unfolding. Yeah. And the sort of like, well, how would I feel and what I do if plunged into this situation? I ask you and even what should these characters do and how are you, like, are you rooting? Who are you rooting for in this and what are you rooting for to happen? Like what do you think the outcome should be? And how does that shift based on the new information that you learned? Because as you mentioned, the first night she reveals, you know, the basic fact, but there are a lot of unanswered questions. And then she just vomits spectacularly. There's a lot of projectile vomiting in this film which I enjoy. And underused, I think, as a visual gag, and then the next 40 minutes, he is trying to figure out what to do. But his first instinct is like, I need to learn more. So I need to learn, like, what do you really, what do you mean when you say you planned like a school shooting and then, like, why didn't you do it and what were the, like, what are their circumstances? And then the film really digs in and all of them, it uses both, like, flashbacks and hallucinations. And I thought like an impressive and, like, pretty fluid way. And you could also tell they spend a lot of time and money on the dream scenarios. Forgive me. The flashbacks, which some movies don't, you know. But so they show you in what I thought was, like, pretty surprising detail. They cast a teenage actor to be the teenage Emma character. She just has a rifle that she is using in the woods. She is, you are seeing a lot of it. You are watching her do, like, several takes of a pre-recorded, like, manifesto that she is doing. Not just like a cute premise or a shocking premise that they toss off and then get into psychological. So if you do have to live with the planning of the school shooting and the reality of it in a way that I was surprised by, as I think I was intended to be right, like, they, it is a provocation, but they commit to the provocation. Totally. the style of filmmaking changes pretty dramatically. Again, it's been sometimes since I've seen it, but I seem to recall the kind of tone and texture of the sequences when she is a teenager, being a little bit grittier and feeling almost more handheld. His filmmaking has this kind of like airy, smooth quality to it, a very Scandinavian touch in terms of the grace with which he moves through these kind of anxious comedies that he writes. But in those sequences in particular, they felt certainly more period and they're set in the south instead of in the east. Yes. And the environment that he's shooting in, a lot of exteriors, her car bedroom, which is this kind of safe haven, even the school that she's in. And then there's like a thorniness to that aspect of the story that I would say is not fully explored, but maybe it's appropriate that it's not, which is that this young girl is a black teenager in a school and she feels very outcast. And seemingly one of the key motivations for her planning a school shooting is that she wants to seek revenge on the people who about cast her. And we see over time, we learn through these flashbacks and through Zendaya talking through the experience that not only does she not go through with the school shooting, but does she actually finds community amongst a group of people who are anti-violence and anti-school shootings that there's a sort of like a group and one assumes this is in the early 2000s and a post-column by an America where there's like a much more of a consciousness in high schools about this. And she pivots away from being this disaffected person with no friends, finding community and improving her life and maybe having a maybe a clearer head about some of these ideas. And also becoming an anti-gun activist. Yes. Which the patterns and character does say, like, didn't you feel a little bit hypocritical, which is one of the only instances I remember in the script of someone actually trying to like push another, push judgment or emotion on another person, which I thought was notable because, you know, I think the criticisms, in addition to it being essentially raceblind, is I think the way that it just doesn't, as you say, explore any of the American consequences, like the consequences of this being an American black teenage girl in the South. Having this high school experience, I'm responding to it in this way. Or, you know, then flipping. And what puts her into it and what puts her out of it. But then it's, it doesn't explore that. And I, it does not take school shootings or anti-gun activism, seriously, in the way that we Americans do. And there is even another line when Robert Pattinson is speaking to the two friends and, you know, trying to work through his feelings. And he says something to the effect of, like, this is sort of an American thing, right? Like, this is something that, that, like, you guys are, like, very touchy about, but the rest of us, you know, just understand. And he's trying to, like, extract himself from all of the socio-political implications, which is definitely the approach that this movie takes. And so, like, you asked earlier, is it, like, an exploration or an exercise? I think exercise is too dismissive, but it is, it is not exploring the ramifications of race in America or school shootings as, as something that is like a particular specific blight of this country and something we need to deal with. Yeah, I think it's short of treating them like chest pieces, but also short of really drilling down into them. But I, one thing I liked about the movie, and I think some critics will completely disagree with this. It didn't go out of its way to have that character give a big monologue about how she was mistreated. And this is why she is the way that she is, because that isn't always how people think of themselves. And often those are dramatic devices that are created in movies so that we can, like, fully understand the psychological mapping of a certain character. And this movie is being a little bit more elusive about that. And why I think that's powerful is because this is a movie about a confused teenager. She's grown up and she's about to get married, but it's about the psychology of a confused teenager and what the choices that she made and how they impacted the rest of her life. And nobody knows anything when they're teenagers, and you think you know everything, but you don't know anything. And whether or not you should be held accountable for the feelings and the ideas that you had as a teenager is kind of the psychological crux of the movie. Right. And the other psychological crux of the movie is from Charlie's side, which is, you know, the simpler what can you know or not know about anyone. And it's about the terror of getting married. In many ways, and it is the most provocative situation. Like I was going through other lists of horrible things that I could imagine that someone did or not did. Is it a list you keep on the regular? No, okay. But there's no particular permutation where, you know, because if someone does something like truly horrible, like kill someone or something, then there's no gray area. And, but if it's something with too much gray area, then you're not going to be as like drawn in and as stressed out about what should you do. Should you forgive this person? But like, yeah, yeah, they're like literally not knowing what to do and knowing that as an audience member as well as the character on screen. So I, you know, I, I agree that the ethics or the morality of the topics involved are not super like explored. Neither really are the characters. Like these are all, if not archetypes, then chest pieces is unfair because that would suggest that they're not scripted out. They're not serving their purpose. But I think everybody is moving around these issues and sort of like a flat, you know, tense way. I think it's very consistent with the three, the two previous poorly movies with a sick of myself, which is a Scandinavian film. It is very funny and very dark dream scenario in this movie. And all three of those movies, I think have this underlying idea that most people going through life are kind of performing, you know, that like the real self. And this is Borgley's point of view, I suspect that you're doing things that you think are expected of you, whether that's society's pressures or individual pressures or how you are raised and the way in which that is kind of impeding upon your true self and that very few people are able to kind of live comfortably in specifically the way that they want to live. There's a kind of stymied quality to a lot of, a lot of his characters. And I, you couldn't really tell a movie with Borgley's sensibility through the eyes of Zendaya's character, because it wouldn't necessitate a little bit more vulnerability and understanding of what was happening there. Charlie is the person who is like, well, shit, what do I do now? And how does this affect me in my performance of my perfect life? And the movie starts so interestingly, I even though I've seen it a while ago, I can't forget. It's that moment where he's observing her in a coffee shop and he's like looking at her and waiting for his in to go make a move because he's drawn to her. Right. Because she's Zendaya. She looks like Zendaya. She looks like the kind of person who you're like, no, that's the kind of person I should be married to. And his anxiety and his concern and his kind of overthinking of having the right social experience, like that defines the tone of the movie. Yes. And then ultimately what he does is looks up the tile of her book and lies about having read it. Hence the performance. Yeah. Now, what's interesting is that character then like reveals the pretense pretty quickly on the first date. So there is, you know, how much people are willing to perform is sort of an inverse ratio into how much Berkeley values them or likes them in the in the film, which I relate to. But this is another. This is another reason why a wedding is such a perfect, perfect choice for the setting of this movie. And it really is more of a wedding movie than the whole school school shooting of it. It does break your rule. But I guess it starts like the choose like the week of the wedding. So it does technically start with a wedding. And it ends after the wedding. So in that sense, it could barely hold onto your rule, which is weddings that movies that start with a wedding are good and movies that end with a wedding are bad. Movies very rarely end with weddings this disastrous. That's true. But they're so funny. But everything in the in the lead up to the wedding about the wedding itself and the performance of the wedding and the people in the industry. It's one of the great wedding bullshit movies. There's like a dance instructor who is just so mean to them. And also why are they learning a dance to perform at their wedding? I know it's a thing that people do. But a lot of this stuff is very true though. This is a very sharp satire about this world. The the shot list that Zoe Winters plays the wedding photographer. That scene is absolutely incredible. The tasting menu you mentioned. There's a wedding DJ who shows up because the original wedding DJ gets fired because she was doing heroin on the street. Yes. I love that that side. It was so good when when they're watching, but that was that there are a number of moments like this where how we judge other people that we don't know very well, is one of the central conceits of the film, and that one in particular is so interesting, and the idea of that woman who denies it, denies that she is doing what was so clear to them that she was doing, and the idea of like, everyone kind of trying to protect something and not being comfortable being who they are, is like the subtext of the entire movie, but the wedding stuff is the inversion of that because it is the most public act. It's the place where you invite all of your loved ones, everyone who really knows you, to see you do something that everyone believes you should all do to be truly happy in this society. And invariably it's like the people who are in this industry are just like the biggest ghouls in the world, which is clever, I didn't have that experience, I had a perfectly nice wedding, but you know, I know you have some conflict feelings. - I thought that this was extremely well observed, and then there is a structural element where for the first part of the movie, the patents and characters trying to write his perfect wedding speech, and like what would be the performed ideal version of his declaration of love for this person, and then it kind of gets ruined several times over. But also the most performative, and the worst person in the movie is the Alanaheim character, who ultimately gives one of the great nightmare made of honor wedding toasts, which I think we should just, and I can say this because I'm a woman, though I've never been a made of honor, we should outlaw these, it just, it honestly, it goes very badly most of the time. - Yeah, if you ever given a toast to the wedding? - Yeah, I will, they rehearsal dinner. - Okay. - Yeah, yes, but yes. And I did a great job. - Oh. - But, - Good for you. - Yeah, don't worry about it. You did too when you gave one at our wedding. - Yeah, I've given a few. - In general, you know, unless you're really ready to give the toast as my sister-in-law, Ruthie Barron, was at our wedding, like, you know, don't do it. You know, come with the goods, or just say I love you and go home, but this one purposefully for the film is just a absolutely cringey nightmare, and she is putting on the performance of being outraged that people like aren't being honest, even though she's doing it in a wedding speech. It's great stuff, it's really good. - It's just another nice little snapshot of an idea too, which is that the thin line between beloved eternal friendship and mortal enemy is very thin, and that one simple revelation can also fracture that relationship profoundly. You know, it doesn't make you wonder, like, why a lot of home is even at that wedding, you know, like why she's continued to participate in that friendship in any meaningful, it's a little confusing. - Right. - But, you know, I think the movie has like three different sets and tones. One is what seems to be a kind of frothy rom-com, at the beginning, very quickly pivots to almost like a social thriller with some kind of anxiety ammo baked inside. And then the final third of the movie is like borderline slapstick comedy. I mean, the wedding in particular is very outsized and big in a way that the first half of the movie isn't. And it starts with Pattinson pursuing in a bungling fashion, this kind of impromptu office affair with Hayley Ben Gates' character, which I thought was so funny and so strange and so off-kilter in the way that, like some of the best stuff in this movie is, which then culminates in like a big thrashing moment in the finale. The movie seems to lose a little bit of interest, I think in some of that like provocation and like, who are we really idea as it goes into the final third? I'm not saying that's necessarily a bad thing 'cause I think in the movie, I think DreamCenario had a hard time tying up its loose ends. And this movie seems more tightly focused on making sure that we get to the end of this movie in a clean way, perhaps too clean. I don't know, what do you think about that? - I mean, I appreciated the very classical romantic comedy ending turned on its head, which is satisfying in that real puzzle sense of we get to where we're going and you, as soon as it starts, the call back. You're like, oh, I see you put the piece here and you put the piece here and there is something both soothing about that as a viewer and then also because this entire movie has been a rejection of not just romantic comedies, but also the idea of love and marriage and weddings and the ability to know someone else. It works because it's tied in a bow but also is it at all and then you wonder what's gonna happen next and it's a neat ending that is also not neat and I appreciate that. I agree that it completely just drops the ethics of the school shooting of it all and if there are people who watch this and are just very offended by that segment of the film and don't think that it's addressed appropriately or born out respectfully, I completely understand that. - I just think that I don't agree. - Yeah, that level of piousness doesn't necessarily appeal to me in terms of a movie like this. This is a movie that is certainly talking about serious subjects but it's attempting to have fun with individual human foibles which is something that I enjoy. I think it's really good. I think it's an impressive-- - Totally agree. - A whole certain kind of tone. - I have to talk about the apartment for a little. I mean, I just, and you mentioned like the slick Scandi quality and I suppose there is a Scandi mid-century modern element to the design of the apartment but it is so knowing, it was like Sophia Coppola level of detail, like there are like 14 different Akari lamps, you know, each structure, it's really, really funny. Like the zelage tile in the kitchen, obviously the spiral staircase, they just, all everything that's in there is wearing, the details are like are playing into the film and spot on and tell a story all the way around, I was very amused. - Yeah, I get the impression he walks through these works pretty consistently. And I think he's also kind of in a tour for our times in so far as we live in a time when people will fight online about the dumbest bullshit for hours and hours and hours and hours but when something genuinely, culturally, socially dangerous or scary comes up, everybody's like, fuck, like I don't know what to do. Like in person, I don't even know how to have this conversation without either hectoring someone about it or completely turning off. And if there's no middle ground, there's no ability to kind of talk about our feelings about things or mistakes that we have made in a productive way which is a very European sensibility to bring to an American setting. And I think he's very good at it. I like this movie. Now, I don't know if this movie is gonna be hit. I think it's cool that Zendaya and Pattinson are throwing their weight behind stuff like this. I think this is what you're supposed to do. You can make Batman and you can make Dune and you should also make these kinds of movies. If it's successful, it's going to be entirely on their shoulders. That we want to spend time with them for two hours in a movie theater. And also the A24, you know, hide the ball strategy which you invoke to materialists. And this is maybe not the same week but the same time of the year. Last year the materialists got its release. And many people felt that they were getting or expected a romantic comedy. And instead got, you know, a man shortening his legs. - A leg shortening force. - Yeah. And didn't respond. And there was a mismatch between the marketing and what audiences got that they purposeful. Purposeful. And people still went to see the materialists. - Yeah, materialists, you know, we had a ball talking about it on the show. I think we both thought it was very, very mixed bag of stuff. I think this movie is a little bit more successful creatively and will be a little bit less successful culturally because I do think you have more people who are gonna be like, what the fuck is that about this movie? Where's materialists was sort of like, huh. That was weird. - Totally. - But not in a way that could offend, really, unless you're really short. - I guess. - You just, in this movie, do we winters also had a questionable plot line in that film as well? - It's really become a kind of-- - Yeah, she's amazing. - Six men of the year, 24, and all of them. In some ways, I think you're right that this is more of, like, what this is not what I was promised. In other ways, I do actually think it is, it is a romantic comedy. It's just a completely upside down one. - You're right, you're totally right. This episode is presented by State Farm. You know the feeling, long day, good meal, you finally sit down and now you're just staring at your screen. Slasher, romcom, period drama, psychological thriller, but some decisions don't have to be that hard. State Farm is here to help. Like when you choose to bundle and save with the personal price plan, bundling, just another way to save with the personal price plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Covered options are selected by the customer, availability, amount of discounts and savings, and eligibility vary by state. This episode is brought to you by the autographed journey credit card from Wells Fargo. The autographed journey credit card from Wells Fargo is built for travel. You can earn rewards wherever you book. your favorite hotel site, your go-to airline and more. You get five times points with hotels, four times with airlines, three times on restaurants, and other travel and one point on other purchases. Whether it's a big vacation or a quick getaway, from booking your state of that first meal when you arrive, you're turning your trips into rewards with the autographed journey credit card from Wells Fargo. Learn more at WellsFargo.com/autographjourney in terms of play. Do you think this is a big twist? Because certainly this is available to people out there. Some people have had it spoiled for them. I think the way that you set this up is right, which is the movie just does not really work as well if you know what the twist is. And you didn't know going in. I was going through the list of all-time classic movie plot twists, and almost all of these twists happen in the final 30 minutes of the movie. And this one happens in the first 30 minutes. Yeah. And so this is a little different than your standard fare. But we haven't really talked about plot twists that much on the show over time. Well, do you have a favorite? I'll always remember being 12, no, 15, and seeing six cents. And I made it to six cents without knowing what was going on. I don't want to spoil for me. Yeah, yeah, that's brutal. But that was incredible. And I was also the right age. I mean, historically, I am not a very smart movie watcher in that I will just kind of go along with it, and then give myself over and be surprised. But that one I really, I obviously didn't know what was going to happen. Yeah, that really ruined a great movie for me in some ways. You can go back and watch it and enjoy the film in different ways now. The usual suspects, I think, was the big keyhole for me with the one where I was like, oh, you can do this in a movie. And I thought very cleverly showed us flashing images that had been presented throughout the movie as all the little clues summing up the Kaiser Sozee revelation about Kevin Spacey's character for Vulcan. You know, there's a couple of like all-time classics. A few all-time classics that we can talk about. There's psycho and the idea of Mrs. Bates, Norman's mother actually being dead, and learning that Norman is in fact the killer. You cited Casa Blanca, which I would not have thought as a movie plot twist. Well, this is, well, you know, Victor Lazio is my husband and was even when we knew each other in Paris, which is, like, I call this the Jane Eyre, but they're like in all romantic dramas, like that oops, actually, I'm married. Yeah, there's a there's a secret spouse somewhere else. And this comes, that comes fairly early. Planet of the Apes is one that was spoiled for me by attending cultural media. You know, you can just watch the Simpsons. You could have a lot of movie spoiled for you as a kid growing up. But that one and also, just remember my dad saying, "Soyland green is people," which is the big revelation of the Charlton-other Charlton has the movie "Soyland green" from the 70s. But we've gotten a lot in recent years. I've noticed that a lot of recent movie history is defined by oh shit moments in movies. Old boy has a few of them, but the one particular that's the most upsetting is we learn that Desu has been tricked into sleeping with his own daughter. Not ideal, not what you want, no, part-time look, little, little freak. Arrival, I had not read that short story before I saw the film. Yeah, no, I had I. And very devastating revelation at the end. If people haven't seen these movies, they're going to be really mad at the, hope you've turned the pot off by now. We're talking about movie plot twists here. Crazy stupid love. If you Google movie plot twist, this is one of the most cited plot twists in recent movie times. Do you feel that this is a plot twist? When do we learn? Is it really just at the barbecue at the end? I think, yeah, I think it's more than an hour into the movie that Ryan Gosling is, in fact, dating Steve Carell's daughter who's played by Emma Stone and that this swav. They learn that, but we don't know. Like, we don't see Emma Stone talking to Steve Carell beforehand. I don't think it's, I think it's what Sean's saying. I think it's closer to around the hour mark. It's not like right at the end of the movie. And then, but the barbecue at the end is when they all find out and they do this. Exactly. Okay, listen, whatever the younger generation needs. I like that movie. I like it when they do the dirty dancing lift. Yeah, it's a good film. Yeah, the prestige. Yeah, they're twins. You're just naming them all off. Sorry, if you haven't seen the prestige or old boy or rival and crazy stupid love, weird podcast to be listening to, one and a half hours in. The others is one that I like quite a bit. You see that one? That's an M8. Sean, on? No, which one is that? That's Alejandro Ammanubar. Spanish filmmaker Nicole Kidman is the star of this film. You haven't seen this film? I'm, I'm, oh my god. Don't even look at what I've written down. And you should, I don't want to spoil this for you. Well, I already read it. Have I not seen this? Oh, it's a very good film. Oh, no, I've seen this. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I've seen, I just didn't remember. Yeah, of course. We did, because we did Kidman Hall of Fame. That's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That is the great twist there. Primal fear was one year after the usual suspects. Oh, yeah. And it's good. Good for you, Marty. You know, the revelation that Aaron Stampler is not a split personality, but it's in fact a sociopath and knowing murderer. There's a whole. It is also, though, primal fear, then, ruined a lot of crime fiction afterwards, because because he's a sociopath, is or he's a psychopath or she's a psychopath, is only a satisfying reveal once. You know, okay. And then it's only like, oh, my gosh, in primal fear. And then the next time it's like, well, there's actually no rhyme or reason to what's happened here, because this person was just a psychopath. Okay. I didn't know that. I don't read a lot of contemporary crime fiction. I get mad when it's, you know, every writer does it once, you know, but when you're in the book and you realize like, oh, this is the psychopath novel, it's just not very satisfying, yeah. I don't think I quite realized that this was David Fincher's stock and trade purely for a period of time. Seven doesn't have a twist so much as a shocking revelation at the end of it. But the game and fight club are both pure twist movies. And Gone Girl was also a pure twist movie. Yeah. And I mean, based on a book with a twist. But yes, of course. I mean, so is fight club. The game and fight club, we don't learn the twist until the very end of the movie. But Gone Girl, we learn, is it less than an hour into the movie that we learn that this is all a scheme? Yeah, or maybe the halfway mark. I mean, it's kind of bifurcated. The first half is Affleck. And then the second half is I don't remember her name, Rosman Pike. Amy, amazing Amy, yes. The cool girl. The crying game. Yeah. How do you think that's aging? Really, really great. I'm sure. Yeah, I haven't seen it. I've never seen the movie. I remember my parents talking about this. It was a flashpoint for movie discussion. There are a great many examples of this and horror movies over the years that have shocking revelations. I just wrote down a handful that popped into my mind as I was thinking about them last night. But Saul is one we, there've been 10 Saul movies now. And I think they're kind of like, you know, not taking very seriously. But the first Saul was shocking. I think the first Saul played Sundance as an independent horror release from James Wan and was shocking to people. The mist was an adaptation of a Stephen King story, but that has a crazy twist in the film adaptation. Sleepaway Camp. That's another wild one. Orphan, cabin in the woods. Have you seen 10 Cloverfield Lane? Do you know about that one? That's not the average. No, it's the second Cloverfield movie. Yeah, no. A Mary Elizabeth Winstead and John Goodman. They're going to spoil it for me now. No, no. They're trapped in like a subterranean space during what we think is possibly a post-apocalyptic moment. But we don't know. The John Goodman character is very. Okay. Herenoid? Okay. Maybe skits a frenic? Check it out. I think it's really worth watching. Okay. I think it's darn good. Barbarian? Yeah. You know about that because we spoiled it for you on this podcast. Malignant? Another James Wan movie? Parasite? It's a good one. It also comes about an hour in, right? Maybe a little. Well, the third family revelation to me is the big twist of the movie. That's the like. In the basement. Yeah, and that amazing shot of the husband coming up the stairs. Yes. Yeah, maybe you're right. That it's only. That it's like an hour, 15 or something. But then there's a while of. Because they banish her. And then they all work their way in. And then. Or they've all worked their way in. But I don't know. There's at least another 30 minutes when you know. So it's not the very end. Yeah, you're right. There's a lot of incident after that. Do you want to speak about your personal trauma? Sure. So was recently at home watching Return of the Jedi? With my son, with both my children, you should hear, say, "Yo, babe, it's quite cute." And I'm sitting there, Zach's in the other room. And Nox, my older son, out of nowhere, goes, "Hey, Mama, did you know that Darth Vader is Luke Skywalker's dad?" And that is true. And I did know it. But what I knew is that my son had not seen. Empire strikes back because my husband decided to skip from a new hope to Return of the Jedi because he thought Empire Strikes Back is too scary. And then I learned that my son. He told my son. He was like, "Well, he needed to know for plot purposes." He needed to understand Return of the Jedi. He needs to know what happens and Empire Strikes Back. So I told him I'm still so angry. I cannot believe this. My son doesn't understand. My son thought that this Super Mario movie was about like a ship, guys. Like he doesn't need to know. He can just watch the movie. And when the time is right, we'll show him Empire Strikes Back. Why are you ruining this perfect moment? I'm really, really angry about it. - Well, that's just something that wouldn't happen in my household. (laughing) - I'm very sorry. - I didn't have anything to say about Zach made the executive decision that we were gonna go a new hope and then return of the Jedi. And I understand the impulse. - You have to let both parents parent, you know? So I was like, that is fine. I'm not gonna get involved. But Nox says this out of nowhere and I was like, who told you that? Like how did you, were you on Wikipedia? He was like, dad, dad told me. - Yeah, that's just a very sad story. It's a very sad story about snatching wonder from the mind of a child. - He maintains that he did the right thing. And then. - Now, I will say Empire Strikes Back is scary. And, you know, it was not an issue in our home but I have heard many parents that I've talked to about this especially because when we were watching the Star Wars movies, I was telling a lot of parents, like, oh yeah, we're doing the Star Wars movies. And some were like, oh, it's great. This works, this doesn't work. And some were like, we did a new hope I tried to do Empire and they couldn't do it 'cause it was too intense. So I understand the motivation. The spoiling couldn't be me. That's not something I would do. - He stands by it. And then as like a rejoinder, he keeps story back the fact that I allegedly told Nox that it's a grown up in the Mickey Mouse suit, which first of all, I don't remember saying that. And I don't think that that's true. And second of all, I think that that is really different. - You should tell him it's a grown up but that it's always Uncle Chris. That would be the way to make that okay, I think. - And Zach thinks that is worse than spoiling Empire Strikes Back. I just, I couldn't disagree more. This is a fundamental issue in our marriage. - Well, you know, life is tough. You know, and you gotta learn the hard way that you're not gonna get things exactly the way that you want them all the time. You're learning it now as you parent Nox is learning it now as he has the magical wonder of the Empire Strikes Back, one of the greatest moments in movie, revelation, history taken from him. Cruelly, one day he'll be able to come here and do a podcast about how his father ruined his life. Now he can't ever have that, it's a real shame. - Yeah. - But that is, that is among the greatest plot twists of all time. - That is. - Is learning that Anakin Skywalker. You know, I'll be curious to see if as Nox gets into the prequels. If you guys allow him to see the prequels. If he develops the same affection and interest in Anakin as my daughter has, because I think Anakin might now be one of her, if not her favorite characters, she really feels like he's misunderstood. And we watch Rogue One the other day, which is really not for kids at all. But at the end of Rogue One, Darth Vader shows up. - Yeah. - And he just wrecks shop. He's just, he's got his red lightsaber and he's just going to town, trying to get the map to the Death Star that leads into a new hope, right? That movie ends right where a new hope takes off. And she was like kind of pumped that he was kicking ass and killing rebel soldiers. So, you know, we understand these things differently. - Yeah. - When we were kids where Darth Vader was the ultimate embodiment of evil. - But so cool. - And so he's kind of a sad kid. - That's, no. That's, that's some millennial shit right there, you know? - There's a, there's a historic patent Oswald bit about that. But when you watch the movies as a, as a young person, you have all this context and backstory. It changes your definition of it. But your son will never really understand. He had to take in from him. - It's too bad. - But they say it has Mickey Mouse. I told him that that was wrong, that it really is Mickey Mouse. And he was like, and he has a tummy and everything. So. - Good question. - Yeah. - We all do. - Why does the Mandalorian wear a helmet? - It's a part of the, the, the ancient religion that he follows that you always have to have your head covered. That is a sign of respect. - Okay. - I think that's right. I think we can be completely wrong. - Okay. - You want it, well, I mean, maybe Easter would be a good time to talk to him about ancient religions. - I'm gonna let you do that. - I would be happy to. - Yeah. - I have many thoughts. - We know that you love to explain. - I do. - Complicated things to the small children. - Yeah. Well, it's one of my skills, you know? I've been doing it here on the show for years. - But this is, as we learn, this is what happens when I let other people parent, you know? Is that Empire Strikes Back gets killed? - Yeah. - And suddenly, you know. It doesn't cost me with all things Star Wars, other stuff, very debatable. That's not, I may not be my true skill. I think that's it for us. - Okay. - Have the meds doing. Good, bad. - Oh. It could be better. - Okay. - It could be better. - Yeah. - I just recorded a message for this morning. - No, I know. But I just, I saw that. But to be able to, I won't listen to that with all respect to Zach Lo, who I also love and admire. - Okay. - So I just, - You want to listen why? - I don't have that kind of time, you know? - I see. - Okay, I'm watching, I'm doing the Meryl Streep tape, you know? - I know, me too. I'm really digging in. - So, I just wanted to check in with you. - They're three and three. - Okay. - They are 29th in the league with runners in scoring position, batting average wise. - Right. Okay. That's not good. - Some struggles. - Yeah. - But we're going to bounce back. - Okay. - It's going to be okay. Next week on the show. - Mm-hmm. - Speaking of statistics and data. - Yeah. - Back to 35 under 35, our patented movie star ranking and doing this for many years. I think this will be our fourth 35 under 35. - Wow. - Yeah, because when we started it, I was 35. And I wanted to be eligible. And you said no. - Well. - Anyway, those days are long gone. - Nope. You're eligible for 35 over 35 now, but we're not doing now. We're doing 35 under. I thought we were going to be short on some names because we have had a lot of people graduate. But then I've discovered a great many new names that have been added since the last time we did it. So this will be a fun exercise. We haven't even started yet. We got it. - I know. Well, we, you know, we had to do this. - Yeah, cracking. Um, thanks to Jack Sanders for his work on this episode. - Did we spoil any movies for, for, for you and for Lucas? - Mm. Uh, not really. I don't know. - Okay. - Lucas. - He's never seen crazy, stupid love. - Okay. Well. - Wow. - So Ryan Gosling is friends with Steve Carrell and then dating his daughter. And they don't know. I'm sorry. - Amazing play in movie. - Mm. - Great play in movie. Uh, speaking of Lucas, thanks to Lucas for his support in this episode. And we'll be back Monday with this ranking, which I think will be received very well. - People are always, um, kind, supportive. They, they listen. I would say listening comprehension very high among, among our audience. - They have respect. - Yeah. - And, um, a sophistication, and they are committed to this project like we are. And, I love them. - Yeah. - See you next time. - This is the way. - Hi, I'm John Favreau. We are launching the all-new Star Wars, the Mandalorian and Grogu official podcast. - Uh, I'm sorry. I can't focus at the moment. - We're going behind the scenes with the cast and crew sharing stories from the set, creative insights, and a few surprises from across the galaxy. - I think he's earned a little snack. - Watch and listen to Star Wars, the Mandalorian and Grogu official podcast, now streaming on Disney Plus or wherever you get your podcasts, and catch Star Wars, the Mandalorian and Grogu now streaming on Disney Plus, terms apply. Every game day you show up for your team, now, it's your time. - Ask your prescriber about WeGovie, some magnified injection 2.4 mg, a GLP1. Call 1-8334 WeGovie, or visit WeGovie.com to view the Medication Guide and to learn more about WeGovie. Why wait? - WeGovie! - WeGovie! - WeGovie!