The Terror of ‘Godzilla Minus Zero’ and Sean’s Favorite Godzilla Movies. Plus: The Joy of ‘Club Kid,’ With Jordan Firstman!

I'm Sean Fennessy. I'm Amanda Dobbins. And this is the Big Picture 8 conversation show about gods and monsters. Today on the show, we are digging into the number one movie at the box office, Godzilla Minus Zero, the sequel to the 2023 surprise Oscar-winning hit, Godzilla Minus One. We will also dig into a few other new releases, most notably Club Kid, writer, director, star, Jordan Firstman's filmmaking debut, and one of our favorite movies of 2026. We will also talk about Chris Rock's Misty Green, which is now streaming on Netflix, as well as The Weeknd's other big theatrical release, The Cat in the Hat, starring Bill Hader. Later in this episode, I'll be joined by Jordan Firstman to talk about his life and making his joyful debut feature. Jordan is a hilarious and vibrant guy, and we had a wonderful conversation. You should stick around for it. But first, some big movie news right after this. This episode of The Big Picture is brought to you by Amazon Prime. 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Okay, the biggest possible Dobbins news ever hit this morning. Big to you, yeah. Big to me. James Gunn and Peter Safran are out. As the chiefs of the DC Film Studios. Yes. You've been calling for this for months. Finally, you've gotten your wish. We flipped blue here in America. That's true. Now we're flipping on Gunn. And I don't have to hear from James Gunn anymore. That's not true. Unless he's promoting Man of Tomorrow. Right, and or he's promoting whatever he does next. You know, he likes a microphone. He likes a Twitter platform. He likes a whatever. So, yeah, this is David Ellison's. Latest rearrangement. It's not hugely surprising given the lack of success of Supergirl. Possibly one of the worst movies of the year. True. And a huge financial loser. And then also Clayface. Yeah, which I would just say is kind of like a single to left field. It's not really, it didn't, didn't light the sky up. I mean, listen, he gets on base. But this is part of the IP that Paramount desperately needed. Or I guess I should say Skydance, excuse me, needed in the merging of Paramount. And Warner Brothers. And I don't think they're exploiting it to the what the bankers would believe to be its full capacity. I agree. I'm sure he's got some sort of plan about the rollout and how consistently the stories of Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman and all the characters should be in movie theaters and on television in the ongoing future. This felt a little early to me based on what I was expecting. I thought at least Gunn would get to do the full rollout for Man of Tomorrow next summer. And then we would see based on the performance of that movie whether or not he would stick around it. You know, you've kind of devalued Man of Tomorrow in a way because you've told the audience this story isn't really going forward in any meaningful way. And there's something fascinating about that. Like David Cornswet, we just had a chance to see Mr. Irrelevant a bit early in the movie coming out over Christmas. And he's terrific in that movie. And he's a star. You do have to give James Gunn credit for that. I, Amanda Dobbins, have to give James Gunn credit for David Cornswet. We were talking about a Skylar Gazzando, Jimmy Olsen spinoff TV show that neither of us knew about. But Skylar Gazzando, also great. Jimmy Olsen. He is. So, and Rachel Brosnahan. Brosnahan, yeah. Wonderful. So, the casting works. Also, you know, Nicholas Holt, very good. Except now he might be Bond. Probably not. But he was testing. We will see. We can talk about that too. Yeah, I mean, this hasn't been very much time that he's been able to work on these movies. It's been about two and a half to three years. And I was thinking this morning about how we had the Batman film starring Robert Pattinson. And we still haven't seen the Batman Part II. And in that entire period. Of time between those two movies. Right. The Gunn DC era has come and gone. So, this is a fairly short administration. The TV side seems to be working just fine. I think Lanterns, Peacemaker, and The Penguin all have pretty good reputations. The Penguin won a lot of awards. I'm not sure how much credit Gunn is supposed to get for all of that. But seemingly kept the train on the tracks with those projects. Supergirl is really bad. I'm not sure it's so bad that someone should be fired. But maybe Ellison just wasn't into Gunn's point of view. His storytelling style. His sense of humor. It wouldn't surprise me if Skydance wanted a more straight down the middle DC. It wouldn't surprise me if they did not see eye to eye. I don't know if they had a meeting. I can't imagine the meeting between David Ellison and James Gunn going like swimmingly. I don't think it's like two people finding each other. Probably not. Yeah. I think based on their political point of views. Based on what they think makes great stories. Just looking at their histories. They seem a little bit different. Still. I was surprised to see this happen so soon. So then the question becomes. Who takes over? Yeah. Who becomes the shepherd? And should the choice be more like Kevin Feige? A kind of David O. Selznick style super producer who oversees the entire execution? Or should it be more like Gunn who is a filmmaker first? And who brings his filmmaking sensibilities? Who should it be? Or should it be someone in the middle of those two things? I don't know. Thank you Goldilocks. I don't know who the contender is going to be. Because I don't know who the contender is going to be. I don't really have a feel yet for how David O. Selznick is going to do this. Some people popped into my mind. The funniest thing that could have happened, which can't happen, is if Taylor Sheridan took over. Taylor Sheridan obviously is decamping to Universal. Yeah. But if Taylor Sheridan's Superman was announced next year, I would not be surprised by that. Just in terms of what the kind of social storytelling point of view of Skydance has been historically. I don't know if Taylor Sheridan cares about superheroes. But him bringing that sensibility. And bringing a kind of heartland Superman back. Yeah. He cares about the real superheroes. Who are the men of the American West. And also in special ops. Yes. That's true. Yeah. The shadow forces. Lioness going very hard in my house right now. On TV is not watched by me. I was at dinner with your husband and Chris Ryan. And I watched them have a deep conversation about Lioness for 10 minutes. I did not participate. Okay. So if not Taylor Sheridan. And assuming that people like Greg Berlanti who have had a bite at the apple on the TV side are not going to be participating in something like that. From a strict point of view. From a strictly filmmaking perspective. Let's look at who's under the umbrella. John Krasinski. Ah. Has A Quiet Place Part 3 coming out. I think his time as Jack Ryan is ending for Amazon. I don't know if he's a free agent or not. I don't know if he has a standing deal with Paramount. He did appear as a false Reed Richards in a Marvel film. He's not otherwise not really been a superhero. Seems like the kind of thing he could get interested in. If he had a more authorial role in the work. You say what? Are you casting him as Superman as well as the director Shepard of the new Superman era? I think what you need to do is you probably need to take two plus years off from Superman after Man of Tomorrow. Okay. To totally reset the board. Unless that person comes in and loves David Cornswet which I guess is possible. David Cornswet is a find. He's pretty wonderful. I know but the thing is that he fits so well in the tone of the gun movies. And if you're shifting the tone out I'm not sure. He might work well in that tone. But there's something interesting about that. So okay. If not him we know James Mangold has a standing deal with Paramount. James Mangold expressed interest in making a Swamp Thing movie for DC. And I feel like it got close to being greenlit and then it went away. By the way I'm just reminded now of the moment when Luca Guadagnino was going to make Sergeant Rock for DC Studios with Daniel Craig. I do remember this. Yeah. God damn it. Listen. We could have had that. That would have been hilarious. We could have. An extremely. The question is really could we have or is that. Is that just something Luca said once in an interview. I think James is going to probably have a convo. Okay. Well. Okay. Michael Bay. Yeah. Made a lot of Paramount movies. A lot of Transformers movies over the years. Would that make you happy? I'd like to see him get a crack at a superhero story. Okay. I think he may be past his prime. He probably almost certainly is past his prime. Though Ambulance rips. Past his Optimus prime? Perhaps. I think that he was in talks to come back for a Transformers movie. So maybe there's part of this. I don't know if that would really excite anybody creatively. If 60-year-old Michael Bay came in to take over DC. But here's one. Yes. That I think feels likely. And you thought of it. I did. Yeah. Even though you've never seen this television show. I watched two episodes. Of Stranger Things. Yes. And I have seen the children in the paparazzi photos and the Deux Moi coverage and the Just Jared coverage for years and years and years. And I haven't learned all of them. But I know them. The Duffer Brothers created Stranger Things. And they left Netflix earlier this year to sign a deal to make theatrical feature films for Paramount. This was pre-merger. And the Duffer Brothers, I do not believe, have announced any projects yet. Aha. And there is a conspiratorial part of me that thinks, was this always the plan? Would these guys get a chance to take over in the event that they didn't like the direction that James Gunn was going in, assuming the merger was going to happen? I don't know, food for thought. - Yeah. You think there was a conversation. Yeah. And I'm no Duffer Brothers expert. I watched the first two and a half seasons of Stranger Things and liked it just fine and didn't really feel too bad about letting it go. But you can't deny that it was a massive sensation. I mean, it is one of the most popular original things of this century. So it'd be interesting to put these stories in their hands. DC's tough, though, because it's like there's an active Superman movie and there's an active Batman movie. We just had a bunch of Superman and Batman movies 10 years ago. We already also have the Batman movies from Chris Nolan. And so unlike Spider-Man, which has kind of been elegantly been able to restart and relaunch and even with the Spider-Verse movies have that character coexist in two separate movie storytelling franchises. It's kind of tough because like, I don't know. Can you open with Wonder Woman? Can you open what you've already got a Green Lanterns TV show going on right now? What are the big guns? What are the moves? It's not my impression that the Duffer Brothers struggle with just nostalgia and recreating things that people of our age remember and really like and just make a good version of it again. So, you know, maybe they won't feel that anxiety. Maybe they won't. I'm very curious to see how this shakes out. One other person that popped to mind, a little bit of a wild card. Chris McQuarrie. Oh, OK. Yeah. Knows how to make movies at scale. He does. Really into movies and sort of mythological orthodoxy and breaking it. If you've ever read his Letterboxd reviews, which I know you have. That would be fun. It'd be fun. To have somebody who is a real filmmaker behind it. It might also just turn out to be effectively an accountant takeover and then hiring director project to project. But I think Feige has shown like you do need somebody with some vision to make this shit work because it's hard to make. Most of these movies are bad. Like when we look back on the 40 year history of superhero movies, more than half of them are outright bad. So I wait with bated breath. OK. This was an exciting Monday morning development for you. Well, it's something to talk about. There you go. You know, some news hits. As I've said, all I have is the news. So let me have it. Speaking of the news box office. Yeah. Were you surprised that Godzilla minus zero was number one? Not totally because it had a lot of IMAX theaters, which, you know, we know that just it's a numbers game. And then I had some idle conversations with friends like, you know, nerdy film industry people rather than civilians who are excited, who are going to see the movie. So there was some awareness. Yeah, there definitely was awareness. I just this is the highest grossing non-English language movie. To go to number one in the history of U.S. domestic box office. And I feel like that's a bit of an understated component of this. There are a couple of American characters in the movie, but this is a entirely Japanese cast. And it's a sequel to a Japanese film. And it's a film about Japanese history. And it is a Godzilla movie. It's a Godzilla movie. Totally. I acknowledge that. But like. A huge part of this movie, more than 70 percent of this movie is reckoning with the aftermath of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. And so. Right. But that's kind of fascinating. That's not why the people are buying the ticket. They're buying the ticket because the first word of the title is Godzilla. I know it does tell me a little something about what American and North American audiences will will accept, I guess, in their mainstream movie making. It's an example. It's best case IP and kind of like and best case what you can do with an established audience and an established world. And. Not just in terms of the quality of the filmmaking and both in terms of ideas and just like actual monsters like fighting each other. Yeah. But then also then finding like a larger audience and finding an American audience for a non-American situation. It's, you know, I feel like we get really bummed out when we talk about, I don't know, what are they going to do with Superman or Super Mario or all of these things. But this is. Or the Cat in the Hat. Oh, God. But this is innovative and exciting and kind of like, oh, the powers can be used for good. Yeah, I think it's encouraging. I think there's like a couple of things that have happened that have led to this. Like we have obviously had this moment probably post-Parasite where there's just a wider acceptance culturally amongst cinephiles of non-English language films at the box office, which is great. And then you've also got the legendary monster movies that have been happening for the last 10 years or so. And so also Godzilla has really been back in the mainstream American culture. So there's that. And there's also the reverse of the, you know, there was about 10 years when Hollywood was like, OK, well, we'll just make big, spectacular budget movies that don't rely so much on dialogue and language and market them internationally. And this also, you know, there is a lot of dialogue. We'll talk about how much all of it works. But some of this is you're going to see a spectacle and that does, you know, transcend language. That can be enough for sure. Pretty interesting time. Just in general, at the box office, you know, you mentioned we were talking about Wicker before we started recording here and a bunch of movies made. I think this is maybe the third time since COVID where you had eight movies over six million dollars at the box office. Which means there's just a ton of variety and lots of different kinds of movies. Wild Horse Nine, Clayface, Wildwood holding really strong. Ramayana, the Indian film. You can see everything with only 22 percent drop, which is crazy. Angel Studios, Drummer Boy, which I know you were the co-producer. I did walk out of the Cat in the Hat yesterday and I saw, ooh, Drummer Boy is showing. I do need to find out what happens. I haven't seen a single Angel Studios film this year, but I probably will have an Angel Studios marathon before the year's over. So that includes The Brink of War. That's the, is it? I mean, The Brink of War is like a save it for Christmas Eve while you're assembling toys, you know? That's honestly incredible idea. That was exactly how I watched. What was it called? Nuremberg. Nuremberg. Thank you. What will I be constructing this year for Christmas? I don't know. You got to figure that out. We went over to a friend's house and they had a full grocery checkout line, like with a scanner. I don't know if the scanner worked. Wow. And then. Pro labor. It was really cool. That's interesting. I was really, and it had like the keypad. Okay. I was interested. What's, what message is that sending to your child? Get ready to start bagging? Yeah. Okay. Listen, all, you know, get ready. Everyone has a job to contribute. That's true. That's, that's a very good point. That's something the Drummer Boy would say. What other Angel Studios movies are there that I'm forgetting? Hershey, of course. I'll be seeing that on Thanksgiving day, abandoning my family. The. Young Washington. I haven't seen that yet. Is it a Jimmy Stewart movie or Frank Capra movie? That's not Angel. That's not Angel. But I do want to see the Jimmy. Yeah. Sure. Yeah. The film Jimmy. I'd like to see those. I should just watch all of them in one day. We should do a pod about that. Great. Okay. Angel Studios is making, making bank. Listen. It's working. Drummer Boy is the funniest trailer I've seen all year. And like, and I would watch it. Yeah. But probably I'd take a nap in the middle. Yeah. Yeah. Super high. Where are you at on getting really stoned? This is the Club Ketam. Well, yeah. Stoned? Not so much. You know me. I don't like to lose control. So I like all of the things that give the illusion of control as it spins away from you. And where are you at on ketamine? Where am I at on understanding all of the drug references on my shirt? We'll get there in a minute. Yeah. Interesting time with movies at the box office. I feel like they're doing pretty well. Despite the cat in the hat's underperformance of 20 million. We'll talk about that maybe when we get into the movie. Let's start with Godzilla Minus Zero. As I said, a straight up sequel effectively picks up exactly where Godzilla Minus One left off. This is the 39th Godzilla film. It's the sixth installment in the Reiwa era. It is written, directed, and features the visual effects work of Takashi Yamakaze. The story? Pretty straightforward. In 1949, post-war Japan struggles to rebuild when it faces a new threat, King Ghidorah. Godzilla reappears and is drawn into conflict with a three-headed monster guided through human intervention. Ghidorah. Do you have any experience? No. Okay. None. So Ghidorah, you may have picked up on this having watched the film. I have seen the movie. Yes. Walked in cold. The number one bad guy in the Godzilla universe. Okay. Really like the big bad. And you know, Godzilla started out in the movies as the villain and he over time becomes more of a heroic figure. Does he? Which is a component of this film as well. Sure. But Ghidorah is a motherfucker. He's bad news. Yeah. And he's cranky and violent and I don't even know what he's interested in. He just wants to mess shit up. So he, you know, adding him into this world in an absolutely devastated post-war Japan. Right. Interesting choice. There's a lot of damage already been done. What'd you make of this movie? Listen, as I said, it's kind of best case for these things. And I do think that the visual effects and the fight sequences and, and, and also what you're looking at, the, the human sequences, the just look so much better than so much of what we see in blockbuster movies. And it is really exciting when the monsters fight each other. That's beautifully choreographed. Like I know that I'm watching something good. I did feel the divide between the monster stuff and the human stuff. No doubt. Way more. It's way less cohesive than the original movie. And I couldn't tell how much of that was just like, we are now clearly in movie two of this series of Godzilla films. And it's like in any other series when, you know, the, the bad person has become the hero. And now we have to introduce a secondary villain and there's a lot of lore and there's a lot of history and some Easter eggs and all these sorts of things. And you just, you know, the tree starts to topple over for me. And so you can feel the weight, you can feel the machine kind of clinking. On the other hand, some of it's, some of it reminded me of the film Pressure. A lot of meteorology in this movie. A lot of meteorology and planning around meteorology. And I enjoyed pressure and I enjoyed this. So I did also, I should say, cry at the end of this movie. So I'm a human being, you know, I have feelings. But I just think it's cool that it did as well as it did. Yeah, I think so too. I think this is a step down from minus one. And I'm trying to figure out how much of that is just the surprise of minus one. You may recall, like, we did not plan to cover minus one. And then it had this, like, pretty solid opening weekend. It kind of took people by surprise how good it was. And so that surprise, I think, also fed into a lot of our appreciation of the way that the story was told. This one is, like, a heavily marketed movie that we know has been coming for a while. And I did talk about it, I think, right after I saw it when it premiered at the New York Film Festival. Which is to say, I think the effects work in this movie is as good, if not better, than any kaiju movie ever made. I think there's a sequence in the middle of the movie with Ghidorah. Mm-hmm. Like, an aerial sequence. Yeah. That is breathtaking stuff. Like, you know, I know how they did it. It's not that I can't figure out what they did. But the way that the action is staged, the way that what you're shown and not shown in time. Yamakaze just has an incredible feel for this stuff. And I've watched a couple of interviews with him talking about his relationship to the franchise. And thinking about what makes these movies cool and useful. And, you know, for roughly 50 years, Godzilla movies were guy in suit movies, you know. And we're now in a digital era. And as you said, a lot of digitally CGI-created movies just don't look that good. And he's just got this incredible knack for blending real-world practical sets, the real high stakes of this story. Which sometimes works and sometimes doesn't. And we can talk a little bit more in detail about what does and does not work. And on a budget, his work with digitally-created images is pretty incredible. I mean, Ghidorah looks amazing in this movie to me. And Godzilla is more or less the same. I don't know if the staging and the use of Godzilla in this movie is as effective in the first film. You know that sort of Jaws-esque boat chase in the first film, which is like one of the most wonderful Godzilla sequences ever. But in this one in particular, that sequence that I'm talking about with the harpoons and then the lightning strike that leads to the transformation. And then the gravity beam thing where they're lifting all the houses. Like, there's just stuff in the movie that if you're seeing it in IMAX, total worth the price of admission. Absolutely. High, like, high, high, high Oscar-winning level of VFX work being done. And then the movie is also a continuation of the human stories, which include this sort of former suicide bomber. And this woman that he's fallen in love with and this child that they've adopted. And how they intersect with the sort of the Japanese bureaucracy that is attempting to navigate the threat from Ghidorah. And then whether or not Godzilla should participate. Right. In trying to battle him in that threat. And there's just a lot of it. And the movie is 85% bureaucratic and strategic discussion over what to do about this issue. Now, that is consistent with most Godzilla movies. So that in and of itself is not a problem to me. The problem to me is this movie is two hours and 15 minutes. And most Godzilla movies are not two hours and 15 minutes. And so what it becomes is like a very weighty, I think pretty heavy-handed. It's not even an allegory. It's just a direct. It's mapping on the nuclear tragedies and the radiation anxieties of post-war Japan onto these people. And then manifesting them in the monsters. Right. Which is also what we did in the last film. Correct. So it does also feel a little bit less so in the sequences. But when they're talking and talking and talking. It just feels like a real. We've been here before. I agree with you. There's another component to and you hinted at this with your comments, which is that. You know, the original Godzilla, which these two movies pretty closely resemble to me in a lot of ways. The one thing that's missing is, you know, that movie is in part a reaction to Bikini Atoll and the H-bomb testing in the 50s. And that obviously hasn't happened in the timeline in Japan here in this story. We're only in 49. So this movie does kind of feel like a bridge and it feels like the next film will be a movie where like maybe that. The H-bomb testing starts happening. Right. And then it's reacting to that. And then if you want to bring in Mothra or Gigan or any of the other. There's so many Godzilla monsters that you could bring in over time. But it did feel a little bit like we're kind of paving the road for part three. And we'll repay you with two awesome action sequences. And otherwise you'll be on the road with these human characters who like you might be coming a little bit sick of at this point. Yes. I mean, it just has the classic. Part two of a series problem, which is OK. Part one worked really well. So now we need to make a sequel and we're just going to do the same thing again. And then if there are more, it's always it's usually part three where people like figure out the vision for the next 25 or something. There is a callback to one of my favorite Godzilla movies, which I'll mention briefly when I share them, which is the Noriko character. The young woman has been exposed to Godzilla's cells. His G cells. And so she starts developing some of his physical manifestation. How do you feel about that? I thought her eye looked cool and she doesn't need to be hiding it from the world. I mean, I guess she's hiding it because she doesn't want to be taken and tested. I understand it's for her own safety, but it was beautiful. Yeah, I like that, too. The scales. I don't know. What would you do? Would you have them surgically removed? Yeah. I mean, that's just I would at least take some maximum medicine. You know, wouldn't they just grow back? Isn't that the point? They regenerate? You got to. Do they have some sort of medication you could take that would remove them? Yeah. Well, I mean, they're coming from inside, so I'm not ready for Accutane. Accutane. You know about Accutane? I do. Yeah. Yeah. I don't need that. Good. I'm doing well. You know why? Never in the sun. Uh-huh. Yeah. It's weird because another one of my favorite movies also addresses this like question of bureaucracy. Another one of my favorite Godzilla movies also addresses this question of bureaucracy. So it's like it feels a little bit redundant, too, about like the decision making around whether or not a movie like this can work. How did you feel about the way that the U.S. was characterized in this movie? Well, so the imagination sequence, but that you don't know as you're watching it, that it's an imagination of Godzilla taking New York was quite powerful. And I was like, oh, we're really this is going somewhere. Visually, but also ideologically. The scientist Murakami has this wants vengeance. Yeah. And we see a lot of back flashbacks for him and like the family that he's lost in the aftermath of the war and in the aftermath of Godzilla's attacks. And he imagines that he will be able to shift Godzilla to go attack New York. So, you know, as you and I discussed after last week's elections, I believe in vengeance. So I was I was fine with it. Interesting. But then it is, of course, just revealed to be. We had imagination. It doesn't go quite that far. No, but I liked the provocation. But it does. And it also does reveal a kind of evilness on the part of the Americans, you know, who are looking to get Noriko to utilize her powers, who, you know, don't care about the future of the Japanese leadership. But they do let Godzilla return to the sea. Yeah. Which is where he hangs out, you know. And what's he doing down there doing poppers? He's in a K-hole. Yeah. This is I thought it was pretty good. Yeah. I think it was a little baggy. And I would love for these movies to be under two hours. This is something I generally feel, especially since I've been revisiting a lot of Godzilla movies. That's true of just a lot of drive-in movies is like drive-in movies would be 95 minutes so that you could play two of them. And that would be a night. And now this movie has to be a full meal. But I'm not sure if narratively Yamakaze is not Spielberg. Like he just doesn't get you as involved. But you did get involved emotionally involved with the child storyline. Well, we're doing a lot. We're doing a lot of like mama data come back right now at home, you know, because we just started the younger child just started preschool. And so who comes back? Mama comes back. Data comes back. So have a safe trip. The idea of like you have to come back. A kid is literally dropped off at preschool in this film. Yeah. By preschool, you mean an orphanage, which, you know, is that's where you learn shit. Insensitive to the other children. So, yeah, that affected me. But that was more about personal stuff. Wouldn't you just yells have a safe trip over and over again? Come on. Yeah, pretty sad. You know, I don't know. I don't think the director did that young actor any favors. Kind of kind of an annoying little kid. It's tough. I thought she was cute. OK. She had principles. She did. She did. You know, as principles. Godzilla. OK. Yeah. He stands for something. Stands very tall. Yeah. So you're you're just Godzilla was not a thing for you ever. No. Who is sitting me down and saying Godzilla? I mean, you sat down. Yeah, I did. I did. Yeah. Well, I've been had on this nice journey. The last two and a half or three years with Alice on where we've been rewatching a lot of these movies. Unfortunately, the minus one and minus zero movies. You can't. They're not. They're not for kids. And it reminded me a little bit of Wildwood and how it's a movie that ostensibly seems like it's for kids and it has a kind of childlike quality. But then I did rewatch the original Godzilla from 54. The Ishiro Honda movie. That's not for kids either. It's basically. post-war drama with some men in suits stuff. And so the whole series is very strange. And it's been through all these multiple eras. He has, I think he is the longest running character in movie storytelling continuously. Outpaces James Bond. Outpaces Superman at the movies. I think he outpaces every major character. So he's now had 70 plus years. There's a big gap between King Kong movies. So I think they don't count that. I think it's like, you know, 1934 is the last one. And then it's 1976. Whereas like with this movie, every seven or eight years, there's another Godzilla movie. But you're right. King Kong does precede him. I learned rewatching the new Godzilla that originally the plan was for it to be like more of a King Kong, Ray Harryhausen style, like stop motion animation thing. And they couldn't quite get it to work with the budget. And so it became a man in a suit. And then that became what Godzilla was for years. I'll go through my list quickly. Thank you. Mothra versus Godzilla from 1964. Okay. Ishiro Honda comes back for this. I chose this because Mothra is my daughter's favorite character. Mothra, of course, is a female moth. I do know that. Who starts out. Are there moths in heaven? You know, Mothra, where Mothra lives is a bit confusing. And how Mothra appears in the Godzilla stories. She just kind of shows up. It's like, is it from space? Is she living on another planet? Is she living in kind of the atmosphere? Sometimes she transforms into two fairies who communicate with people. That happens in some of the later millennium movies. But yeah, she loves Mothra. Mothra sings a beautiful song. She has a theme song. Most of the monsters have theme songs in this movie. They start out as rivals, Mothra and Godzilla. But they become friends. Yeah, it's beautiful. And they work together. Mothra not as present in 1968's Destroy All Monsters. This is sort of the Avengers endgame of Godzilla movies, where all the monsters come in. Movie itself, not the best movie I've ever seen. Not super narratively coherent. Where there's like an island and humans are trying to control the island and control how all the monsters interact on the island and trap them there. And then this leads to a big showdown. Great. Like nine guys in suits beating the shit out of each other for the final 20 minutes of the movie. Would recommend watching on YouTube. It's good fun. Number three is Shin Godzilla. Yeah. Which many people love. And I think actually like kick-started this wave of re-appreciation for Godzilla. Because 2014's U.S. Godzilla movie is a little wonky. There's not enough Godzilla in that one either. But Shin is basically like, it's kind of like if Armando Iannucci made a Godzilla movie. Like it's all about how stupid all of the functionaries in the bureaucracy are and their inability to make decisions. And it's like a very fast-cutting movie. Very comic. But Godzilla is very, very, very, very scary. And like evil and destructive. And there's no empathy. There's no funny stuff. Like there's no goofiness. All the goofiness is with the humans. But Godzilla is just wrecking shit. Number two is Godzilla vs. Biollante. Of course. You know about Biollante? I don't. Biollante is a giant morphing evolutionary evil plant. Okay. Created by a mad scientist who attempts to revive his daughter by implanting cells into this new organic figure. Which then leads to. Horrible outcomes and Godzilla has to go to war with this giant plant. Sure. Yeah, with the Earth. My entire career has been leading up to this moment of sharing this information with you. Well, I kept-- Is Biollante Italian? Yeah. Okay. Great. Now I'm interested. Yeah, she's from Sicily. Okay. No, I don't know. I mean, I don't know where that title's come from. Godzilla is Gojira, which is a whale and a gorilla together in Japanese. Yes. Sure. Yes. Where Biollante comes from, I don't know. Okay. But this movie is incredibly gross and Godzilla came back in Japan in 1984 in a movie called The Return of Godzilla that was like, "Okay, this is the movie after that five years later and it's amazing and I wish that there were more movies like it." And then the first one, of course, is the original recipe. Yeah. Which is, I would recommend anyone, yourself included, if you haven't seen this movie, to rewatch it because it is not what you think it is. It's basically an Akira Kurosawa contemporary, Yeah. drama with Godzilla in it, where there's just many of his actors and his troupe, including Takashi Shimura, is one of the stars of the movie. It's a very seriously played movie. It got horrible reviews in the United States when it came out. I think it was Bosley Crowther was like, maybe it was Vincent Canby was like, "This is dreck," which is just ridiculous. And the effects work is really like hugely transformative for its time, though now it looks pretty silly to modern audiences, but the actual drama, and the acting style, and the way that the story is staged is really, really great. And so there's really nothing better than that. Couple of honorable mentions for you. Godzilla vs. Destoroyah. Have you seen that one? 1995? No. Okay. Who is Destoroyah? An even more evil, giant creature. Rank the most evil of the-- Ghidorah. Okay. the Monster of the Deep is pretty bad. Destoroyah is pretty bad. Space Godzilla is pretty bad. Yeah, you'd have to be. I mean, Mechagodzilla. How could I forget Mechagodzilla? You know about Mechagodzilla? No, is that like the Galactus of Godzillas? It's like a robot Godzilla. Oh. Oh, Mecha. Yeah, of course. Yeah, get that? Yeah. In fact, Terror of Mechagodzilla from 1975, also on my honorable mentions list. And I just want to say, Godzilla from 2014, not a successful Godzilla movie. However, the first 45 minutes of the movie is the only modern Godzilla movie until Minus One that got right the feeling of like, "How fucking scary would this be?" if this actually happened. If a gigantic dinosaur-esque creature emerged from the sea and started crushing our cities, it would be fucking terrifying. There would be nothing that we could do. Because in every one of these Godzilla movies, the Americans try to like shoot missiles at it, and it never works. Yeah. I just, I like to think of it that way sometimes. You know, what if this actually, what if there was a man of tomorrow, and he came down here? We were talking before we recorded about aging and how much, we think about death, and how much Jack, producer Jack, who has a birthday soon, happy birthday, Jack, thinks about death. And you and I were just, you know, with the hubris and the delusional confidence of two people who are in front of cameras all the time, we're like, "We don't think about death." Like, I fear it, but I don't think about it at all. I think about aging all the time, though. Yeah, no, I mean, sure, because we're experiencing it, and we are experiencing the consequences of it, but also the joys. But, so. I don't think about death enough to, like, then get my rocks off by watching the scariest possible thing that could happen. Well, that's the thing, is I don't think about death either, but if a movie can make me think about those stakes, that's effective storytelling. Okay. Like, that's kind of, it's the same thing with horror movies. Like, I'm actually not a person who's kind of, feels trapped by the limitations of existence. I'm just kind of moving along. I'm like, "Oh, to watch another movie, hang out with my daughter, you know, and eat a sandwich." Like, I have a very kind of simple approach to life. So number one scariest thing for you is a dinosaur coming up out of the water and smashing your legs. I wouldn't, it's not hierarchical, but it is scary. You know what it's related to? What's actually scary for me is not, though, the monster. I think a tsunami is probably the scariest possible thing. What about a blue wave? I'm pro that. Yeah. Is that super scary? Well, just, like, something coming out of the ocean, like, where do you go? This is, it's sort of tied to the whole, I don't like the… There's movies about that, too. I don't like the planes, you know, like, because where do you hide? Where do you go? You don't like, oh, the Great Plains. The Great Plains. Right, not flying in a plane. Yeah, no, no, no, the Great Plains. Sorry. Yeah, like, Montana. Okay. Where I'm just like… Because where do you go in the… Where do you go? But if you're afraid of a tsunami, the best place to go is the Great Plains. Because that tsunami is not making its way to Nebraska. No, no, no, but it's, it's, what is scary to me is knowing that something is coming. Have you been to the Great Plains? Yeah, we went to Montana and I came back and I was like, eh, you know. Montana's not the Great Plains. There's mountains there. What are you talking about? I meant, well, I meant the open parts, the open… Okay, okay. You just mean the middle of the country. No, I don't. Okay. Don't try to put words in my mouth, okay? You mean like Iowa? I can live out with the best of them. Like Iowa? Like I… No, what, like an expanse, an open expanse. Okay. Because I'm trying, I'm trying to explain my feelings. Okay. All right. I'm trying to explain my fear to you. And you just keep like, you know, bringing in JMO jokes. So what I'm afraid of is, it's the sense of you are somewhere and you see like the deep, real, like the terror coming for you. And you know it's coming and there's nothing that you can do and there's nowhere you can hide. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Where there's someone's running at you from far away. And it's just like, I can't, there's nowhere to go, there's no, and there's something about… Would it be better or worse if someone was running down a mountain at you? Well, in the mountain situation, like they can trip and fall, you know? I would mostly be watching just being like, I don't know. Have you considered running away? Yeah, but in an open space where you're just, you're going to run and there's nowhere to run to and the person can see you and it's just kind of all there. Like, it's like a big, scary wide shot. That is actually the scariest thing to me of all. Have you considered studying archery? I took archery classes. I took portrait camp. Okay. Part of the reason I hated camp. How are you with a crossbow? I hated camp. Okay. You hated camp? Yeah. Don't tell me what to do. I feel like that's on the record. Yeah. I set my own schedule. Um, okay. Well, sleepaway camp. I loved a day camp. Oh, okay. Sleepaway camp. Yeah. I didn't really go to sleepaway camp as a kid. Just a basketball camp. That was the only sleepaway camp I went to. Okay. So now I'm not wearing it anymore? I just don't know. I didn't, I never really did sleepaway camp. So I don't, you know, I don't have a strong opinion on you hating it. Day camp is wonderful. Yeah. Day camp was a lot of fun. What else are you going to do in the summer? I don't know. How else are you going to kill time? Exactly. Getting into trouble, getting arrested, you know? Uh, any other thoughts on Godzilla? Glad it exists. Do you relate to Godzilla? Yeah. I mean, we've previously established in the Godzilla versus Kong episodes that I'm more of a Godzilla and you're more of a Kong. But do you see in this new dynamic, maybe you have more Ghidorah in you? No, because that was just sort of, that was elaborate. You know, I couldn't, I couldn't be bothered with that level of evil. I'm now imagining a world in which you are felled by one of my strong takes, but then you become even more strong. You can grow to second and third head. Yeah. That would be a lot. It'd be hard to podcast. Can somebody, do you think somebody can make that meme of you with three heads? Not AI though. No, don't, don't use AI. Please don't. Um, let's make an elegant transition to Club Kid. Um, Club Kid is, as I said, written, directed, and starring Jordan Firstman. It is about the life of a washed up underground party promoter named Peter who takes an unexpected turn when he is forced to care for Arlo, a 10 year old son he never knew he had. This movie stars, uh, Firstman, Cara Delevingne, Kirby Halle-Baptiste, Colleen Camp, Saturn Rising, Miss Benny, Diego Calva, and Reggie Absalom as Arlo. Uh, we saw this movie at the Cannes Film Festival. We sure did. What'd you think? This is quite simply one of my favorite movies of the year. I loved it. And it is, it is a classical movie, right? This is a coming of age story of someone who does not have their shit together and needs to get their shit together or wants to get to their shit together. Yeah. Sure. And has, has an event where that makes him realize, okay, so things are not going the way that I would like them to go and I'm going to figure some things out. So it is, it's like a very universal story. It is also so specific of its place and of its culture and of New York and, and of Firstman. I think you can tell that it's a really, really personal story. And I saw it again, uh, this weekend and I was struck by how open hearted this movie is. Which I think, um, certainly connected with me. It is a very sentimental movie and we don't always respond well to that. I certainly don't, but there's something so genuine and clearly just so personal about this movie that, and, and the way that it's shot and Firstman's performance and his understanding of the world that he's creating that it just, it works beautifully. I love it. You hit something interesting there. Cause I think I would call it sincere and not sentimental and it has come under fire, I think. For being a little bit sentimental. And if you think about the movies that are clear, like, uh, mile markers for him, like Kramer versus Kramer, um, or an unmarried woman he cited when we talked, those are really sincere movies. You know, they're, they're, they're constructed, they're imagined stories, but they're really sincere, sentimental, I think indicates maybe like, uh, gloopiness that is unearned. And I don't, I don't, I didn't feel that as I watched this movie. Um, I don't want to slip too far down the discourse rabbit hole. Before we talk about what's so great about it. But, um, I think everything is situational and for this movie to see it at a film festival and not know very much about it. And I only knew Jordan from really his acting work. I didn't really know anything else about him. I think I'd seen him on, uh, the English teacher. I'd seen him in, um, rotting in the sun, the 2021 movie. I don't know if, I don't even know if I love LA had premiered at this point. Um, and I thought he was funny. Like I, that was pretty much all I thought about him. I didn't really know very much about him. Um, and I, I too was blown away. I was swept up in this movie completely. I thought it was, uh, really beautiful and, and funny and very, very specific about a scene. And that's something that I love is being taken into a world that I don't know very well. And that includes worlds of outlandish crime stories and assassins. And it also includes, um, guys partying in New York and trying to figure out who they are. And you, you pointed out that like, you know, the movie opens very smartly where it shows him in kind of the absolute throes of his. Partying days. And then we fast forward and he already knows that he needs to make a change in his life when something comes into his life to make him change. And so to me, this movie is, is about getting older. It's about a situation where like everybody comes to this moment in your life, no matter where, what you were doing in your twenties, presumably, unless you were a complete teetotaler, you were having a lot of fun. You don't have as much responsibility. You don't have as much money. You're not really worried as much about the future and. You're letting it rip a little bit and then whether it's 26, like our, our boy Jack is turning this week or 31 or 35 or 40, eventually like rent comes due and you got to turn it over and make some changes. And the thing that is introduced in the movie, which is this 10 year old kind of forces a speed run of those changes, you know, like it probably wouldn't happen this dramatically for most people, but he's forced to wake up and shake off. You know, the, the particles of drugs that are covering his, his body and soul. He's forced to learn about health insurance and school transcripts and find clothes and where to eat breakfast. And yeah, we've had a lot of time to figure all these things out and he has to do it right away. Um, and also before that, to have a sort of like after hours night, trying to find someone else to take responsibility back for it. So he goes through all the phases of big, like, no, no, no, I'm not ready for this. Okay. Now I have to figure out how to solve all these problems. And there is sort of, um, there are stops and starts and makes mistakes and figures out maybe some of the emotional stuff, but some of that, not some of the logistical stuff. And, you know, the, the kid thing is real. And I do think the, um, so Reggie Absalom is the, the actor who plays Arlo and is wonderful and has a real connection. With first men. And so they have chemistry, they have real, uh, chemistry. And so it makes all the emotional openness a lot, um, more apparent and then thus undergirds the rest of the decisions that the, um, the Jordan first man character, um, makes in order to become a grownup. You know, like he really is, he is a plot device, but he is also in the performance, such a little person. And. Highlights again, more, but it's more emotional, right? It's like, ultimately this person does get some of their life together, but not all of it. I think it's instructive that he's been describing it as a fairy tale. Yeah. Because fairy tales don't end happily most of the time. Historically, fairy tales are, are lesson bound and they, they create magical circumstances. Like what if a 10 year old boy was dropped into your life and you had to figure it out, but that doesn't necessarily mean you're headed towards a happy ending. Um. Um, I, I thought first one was just, his performance is really good. Um, it's obviously very, uh, sympathetic towards him, which it should be since he wrote and directed the damn movie. Um, but I thought he was very, very believable in, especially in the more sincere sequences, you know, like as the party boy, you get that stuff. Like, it seems like that's ripped completely from his life. The harder work is, as you say, to like, to do the scenes with Arlo or with Kirby, how Baptiste, when he's sort of freaking out at the beginning and real realizing like, what the stakes are of what's happening to him in, in real time. Or with Diego Calva. Yeah. When he was introduced as a, you know, figure in his life as somebody who is working with his new adopted son or whatever we are, we think Arlo is. And then the way that he becomes a part of Firstman's character's life. An incredible Diego Calva performance. And I, and I credit Firstman for that. It was like, oh, this is what this person can do now in this setting. And again. It did feel like it unlocked him in a way that other movies have not totally been able to unlock him. Yeah. I will say it, the film is sympathetic to his character, but. It's sympathetic to pretty much every single character. This is not a mean movie. Totally agree. I think the only. Even Cara Delevingne, who takes a lot of, takes a lot of hits. She's kind of like the mini villain. Yeah. And I think she's the presumably straight, like, you know, white lady in the, who everyone doesn't want around. Like, sorry, I guess it's me. I'm the Sophie. But, but even that, her character gets some sort of resolution. The only person that it's really mean to is like an unseen UK straight guy who. Like is, they keep saying is a child abuser, you know, like, but that's it. Everything else is understanding and at least empathetic of what people are trying to do. Yeah. I, the movie is warm. I think that's really what it comes down to is like, it is trying, it is trying and for me completely succeeding and making you feel good. Even if it has a sadness in the story. Totally. It's an interesting contrast with Josephine. Have you seen Josephine yet? No. And they showed the trailer before it. And I'm just absolutely dreading it. I'm like, I'm, I know everyone liked it. That's. It's not a critical judgment on it. It just looks like an, the opposite of the club kid experience. It's such a tough movie, but they're an interesting match in terms of like, what happens when you start caring for a kid or when, when you do care for a kid or you have a child or whatever, you know, whatever, however the story is set up. There are two kind of studies in that in really interesting ways. But in general, I think like the whole world of friendship that is created there and like who, who comes along for the ride and who Peter kind of like outgrows or moves beyond. The way that he stays close with Saturn rising, but. You know, like some of the other people kind of fall away. You know, I've seen the movie come under some criticism for that. But to me, that just feels like such a natural component of aging is like when you're in a scene, you're with people who are in the scene all the time. And as you outgrow a scene or you move on or you get interested in something else in your life, you don't see those people as much. That struck me as such a natural and very New York. I had those exact experiences of like, oh, when I was at bars four nights a week, I was with these people all the time. And then I get older. And, you know, if these people that you get older with, if they have kids or their lifestyle evolves, that struck me as very normal. Like, I mean, this is a movie that is born of a subculture. And if you're in the subculture and you feel like it's selling out or it's representing someone, you know, moving on. But like, who am I? Who is the white lady in the T-shirt to say anything? But it is. I really felt like a movie about community and found and found family in these beautiful relationships that are specific. Yeah, to this queer community. And like Arlo comes in as his son and sort of like a surprise family. But then the film also reveals the family that he's created around him and all of the people who become a part of his life and the way that they care for Arlo. Exactly. Yeah. So I think it is some things get left behind. And I guess if like sobriety is conservative, then sure. But I do also actually, I mean, I don't know. And, you know. You know, and maybe it is. And again, like, we don't know what all the drug references in this movie mean. So who are you and I to totally. I'm such a square. Like, talk about it. Like, truly, like, what is G? You know, like, could someone let me know? Don't you guys also think it's a good sign that the movie is eliciting such a strong reaction? Yeah, of course. That's how you know you're doing it right. I do. I, I, I, I, um, I think it's, it's, it was a very weird movie discourse weekend. And I had been like out. I've been out on this for a long time. And for whatever reason, I was just on social media a lot this weekend. And I just kept getting fed like wild takes about a lot of movies. Well, I don't know what you guys are doing on Wild Horse Nine, but like we're not on the train with you. It was like Wild Horse Nine, La Bola Negra, Club Kid. You think these movies were like the worst tripe in the universe. And I'm like, what movies are people watching out there that necessitate this level of vitriol and bad faith reads? Yeah. So I'm inevitably bringing a little bit of that to the conversation, which I try to resist historically. But I just had such a. Lovely. Yeah. Like I had a great experience watching this movie the first time I cried. I laughed. I thought it was just like, I'm like, this is exactly what I'm begging people for. I'm like a new voice, a world I don't live inside of, but it is demonstrated beautifully. Great performances, original story, but with steeped, steeped, steeped in Hollywood style. It's like it is new and fresh and an announcement. And it is also just so very, very classical. It's like we have seen this before. In many different ways. Did you clock that some of the characters are watching Lady Bird in the world of this movie at some point, which is wonderful. And, you know, another of my favorite movies. And they are in a lineage. I don't think we're talking enough about Baby Boom in terms of a kid shows up in your life and then you reject the culture that you're in and move to the country and start dating a doctor. In that case, a veterinarian. I am sorry that I called him a pediatrician when he was a veterinarian. Right. But still a doctor. Yeah, still. You call a veterinary doctor, right? You do. Yeah, you do. Of course you do. Yeah. Do you think that Baby Boom, when Big Daddy came out, that people acknowledged Baby Boom's influence on that film? No, because there's a gendered thing here in terms of men versus women. And like for me, the reference here was Kramer versus Kramer because it does have all of the good, charming, like solo dad learning what to do with this kid stuff. Ten-year-old boy. Yeah, ten-year-old boy. And some of those are the best scenes. Like when they first go to the pizzeria. And he's allergic to dairy. And they're screaming at each other in the bathroom. It's so funny. It's really, really funny. I love those early sequences when they first get together because it shows you kind of the myth of ease in parenting so well. Yeah. Where it's like you imagine when you don't have children that you're like, yeah, you just like take them out to pizza. You just hang out. I won't be like my parents. I'll be cool. And we'll just hang out. We'll go to the record store and I'll spend $300 on an Elliott Smith album for you. Yeah. And it'll just be so easy. And of course. No. That's one nice day. In a 31-day month. You know, like you just that's impossible to replicate all the time. And you don't know what's around the corner at any given moment. The movie's very wise about that. You know, Firstman's not a parent. And he knows some of those things that are the trap doors of taking care of a kid that I thought was very insightful and very fun. The other thing, too, is the movie shot on 35 millimeter. It looks beautiful. So good. It's a New York I love. It's a New York that you don't see in the movies very often. Shot in Chinatown in the Lower East Side, which still kind of looks like what Chinatown in the Lower East Side looked like 40 years ago, 20 years ago. And Balthazar. And Balthazar, of course. Which is just a chef's kiss moment for me. And that is on location in Balthazar. 100%. Once again, film on location. Yeah. And just really strong performances all around. I think I'm curious to see like what Jordan does. Yeah. Because this is one of those things like this is something that, you know, Warren Beatty did. This is something that like Clint Eastwood did. People would kind of grab control of their persona and they would be like, you don't get to tell me who I am. Like, I'm going to make who I am and I'm going to redefine who I am as a star. And or he could now get, I don't know about movie star parts, but he's going to be a higher level actor now than the third or fourth lead on I Love L.A. And he clearly has the chops. And as you said, you know, directs himself in it. And my husband pointed out like every fit is immaculate. You know, he does. He looks so. He's so handsome in every single image, even when he's hung over and wearing giant shorts. So, but he's also designed that, right? So can he, he has a presence. He's definitely a star. Does he want to do that in someone else's film? Does he only want to craft it for himself? Yeah. At the same time, what this movie is, is so specific and so personal. You don't have like 45 of these sitting in a shelf, you know, like how many of these types of stories where you. Totally. Where you have a big moment of change in your life. So, I don't know. I would love to see. I would be excited to see him in other movies. He is also funny. Like this movie is very, very funny and funny in, I guess, a not quite cynical, but a deadpan sort of way that is very much my humor, but still is never mean spirited. Not to spoil any other movies that we're about to talk about. And so, but he can. He can be funny in other people's movies, you know? Yeah. Eldar is Ganderov, who plays his roommate, is fucking hysterical in this movie. And he's, he's also in the debut. I don't know. You haven't seen the debut yet, right? No, no, no. But he just, he just jumps off the screen and gets a hundred laugh lines in the movie. I'm really happy to have this t-shirt, but the t-shirt that I wanted is like, do you know what it's like to be an upcoming queer philosopher? Yeah. And then, but also then the cut to Jordan Versman, who just holds where he's like, no. No, I don't. It's really funny, funny stuff. Yeah. This is a great movie. People should go see this movie. It has an eerie, eerie similarity to Fjord. I don't know if you noticed that. Oh, sure. About child protective services. Yes. But in this case, I mean, this is even like a fairly empathetic and sunny version of child protective services and the involvement of not one, but two governments in this child's life. And their resolution is maybe not the resolution that the characters want, but is the way that one in the heart of hearts that does make sense for, I guess, I don't really know. I think he would have a great time. Arlo would be, would be fine with Peter and Diego Calva on the Lower East Side. But, you know, the child services and the government's involvement in family life is far more complicated and not as sunny as this. I hope to never learn more about it. Exactly. By the way, programming announcement next Tuesday's episode, we will go deep on Fjord. Which, and, you know, maybe we'll talk more about that. But they, so they have a different view of the world, I would say. I wouldn't, I don't want to fail to mention, I've recently gotten into fisting, low-key spiritual, which I thought was a great line from this movie as well. I've heard that. Yeah. What does it say? But I've got one hole. I've got one hole. Yeah. G, by the way, I believe is GHB. So that's what Zach said. Yeah. And listen, I mean, that's what the. That's what the internet said. But when you Google these things, you know, it's, you get weird results. So. Can you, do you know what GHB stands for? No. Gamma hydroxybutyrate. Okay. You know, gamma rays, that's what. Yeah. That's Hulk. Absolutely. Yeah. That's the Hulk. Yeah. So the Hulk was exposed to gamma radiation and that led to him becoming a giant green monster. Does GHB work in the same way? I don't know. Like, would you Hulk out if you were on G? I think G-ing out is very bad, according to. To this movie. That's when the drug monitors show up at the club and they got to get Arlo out. You know, I know what a little Charlie and a little Kirk is. So we'll leave it at that. My favorite Letterboxd list now is movies that reference Charlie Kirk and also someone has a cocaine problem. And it's just, you can see everything and Club Kid are the only two movies from this year. Did someone make that list? Yeah. It's a very good list. Yeah. It's a very you list. All right. We're going to take a quick break and get into the cat in the hat right after this. All right. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Life is all about choices, like whether it's a night for a Hollywood blockbuster. Buster that's got everyone talking or an indie flick by a one-to-watch director. At State Farm, their goal is to help you make decisions that you feel good about. That's why with the State Farm personal price plan, you can choose the right amount of coverage for your needs and budget. So you can get back to Friday movie nights, talk to a State Farm agent today to learn how you can choose to bundle and save with the personal price plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings, and eligibility vary by state. This episode is brought to you by LinkedIn Ads. 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Our refrigerated trucks keep your items fresh while our associates are. committed to getting every detail right. Carefully selecting and packing your order with care because bringing you fresh, quality groceries is what we do best. And right now, enjoy $20 off your first online order of $75 or more. Restrictions apply. See site for details. Kroger, fresh for everyone. Okay, the cat in the hat. Did you go solo or did you take a child? I took Knox, which made me feel worse about it. Alice liked it. She thought it was pretty funny. I think he did laugh a couple times. His review was that the cat got fired. Not accurate. Not accurate, but I didn't really want to get into all of the bureaucratic issues with him. But just to your point that he seemed to take the professional, cutesy, bureaucratic aspects of this movie more to heart than you or I did. I see. Okay, well, let me give the listener some context. So the movie is written and directed by Alessandro Carloni and Erika Rivenoja. It stars Bill Hader, Matt Berry, Quinta Brunson. Um, the cat, an agent for the Institute for the Institution of Imagination and Inspiration, LLC, attempts to help siblings Gabby and Sebastian adjust to a new town. Utilizing a time-rewinding go-backer device and his trademark chaotic style, he aims to restore their imagination before losing his magical hat. Dr. Seuss, you were raised with Dr. Seuss? Yes. And then, I don't know if you know this, but Dr. Seuss was a Dartmouth graduate. I didn't know that. So they were, they're very big on that. They were really that. Was he one of your professors, Theodore Geisel? No, he wasn't. But he, but they would tie in Dr. Seuss at every opportunity. Is that so? So, yeah, I don't know. Nothing screams college like Dr. Seuss. I think it was like an early, oh, the places you'll go era before that was like every single graduation, whatever. I don't know. Like, I don't raise money for the college. I don't give money to the college. No, I don't. But you did go to Dartmouth and you graduated. I did. I have a degree. I agree. Track her down. She wants to give you some of her money. I certainly was raised with Dr. Seuss, but I wouldn't say it was a religion. Like, I don't think we had every book. Yeah. And I, you know, when you have kids, you kind of, you think about what should be in the library or people are giving you books all the time. And I think we got multiple sets of like the kind of the core original, you know, the Green Eggs and Ham. And, you know, I think his writing style is very fun, obviously. But there's. There is something really interesting about its lack of narrative shape, which differs from some other books in that it's more an exploration of language and. And rhythm? Yeah. Yeah. And style. It's kind of an. Those books are kind of an exercise. And they're. When they're going and you're like reading them at a fast pace and you're like stacking phrase onto phrase onto phrase onto phrase, it can be kind of fun as a parent. But I never come away from one of those books feeling like, well, my child is learning about like narrative structure here. No, they're. They're just not really like that. They're children's books for the. They're building locks for language and like probably poetry if you want to get to like a grown up literary style. And I appreciate them for that. There's nothing that drives me crazier than reading a kid's book that is in some sort of verse, but they can't get the meter right. And then they just, you know, alternate it and suddenly they're like 18 syllables. I'm like, what are you talking about? But, you know, Dr. Seuss would never, Maurice Sendak would never. So I appreciate that. Similar issues in terms of the ability to adapt their works because I say that not as a criticism of the writing of Dr. Seuss. It's more like they serve a wonderful function in terms of introducing children to language, but they're not really stories. And so there have been a great number of adaptations of their stories over the years on the big screen. And most of them don't really work because they can't withstand 90 to 110 minutes of story. I found this to be very similar. I thought this was fine. Like, not horrible. I think it could be worse. I think it's interesting in the aftermath of some of the conversations we've had about movies like Hoppers and Forgotten Island this year and Super Mario Brothers Galaxy movie and this sense that there is like a little bit of a chaos happening inside of children's storytelling right now that worries me a little bit. Right. And then this movie stacks on top of that. This story that is not dissimilar from some of the Godzilla story as well, which is like that and corporate strategy is the tent under which a lot of children's storytelling needs to operate. And this is the aftermath of like of movies like Monsters, Inc., where we learned that scaring has like a value to a society. And so everybody goes to their job every day to scare little children. And like Inside Out, where like the human mind is this sort of very delicately calibrated balance and everyone has their role to play. And there are these kind of like social deconstructions. They're very like they're very semiotic. Yeah. And the way that and that just seems like an odd thing to keep doing for kids movies. And the cat in the hat, which otherwise doesn't really have a world, builds out this world where sad kids who are bored on rainy days or without anything to do need to be introduced to fun by this outside force in from the Institute for the Institution of Imagination and Inspiration, LLC. And so that's the role that the cat plays in the movie. And this is again, this is kind of similar to Zootopia. Yeah. It's kind of similar to Coyote versus Acme, where you're like you're in a world of legal order and we need to the way that we get the narrative going is by having a lawsuit. It just makes these movies seem less fun to me. Maybe the kids don't realize what what they're being introduced to. And it's the only way you can kind of create a shell around which to build a movie. But there's a lot of kids movies are like this nowadays. Yeah. I think that my son responded to it because he's been into Monsters, Inc., not because of the movie, but because of the Yodo card that you gave to us. Thank you. And so he knows that structure. And it's just very clearly borrowing in this specific case, the cat in the hat. The film is borrowing for Monsters, Inc., which you could argue is borrowing from the original concept of the cat in the hat, the book, which is just that, you know, a monster comes in to to spice up your life or something. A fairy tale comes in to spice up your life. So. I think that but otherwise, to me, it seemed like all of these jokes were very like surface level, like let's make a joke about H.R. for the parent stuff. And so it seemed like the structure that was trying to keep the parents entertained while the kids watched the things one through things 700 like slapped each other in the face. So some of it was just like, you know, it's just like, you know, it's just like imbalance to me. And again, trying a lot of different things. Then they have to go through an entire world to find a clock that's going to end time as we know it or something. Yeah. So once again, there becomes some sort of like existential issue in a movie that is about a cat in the hat and also some kids that are sad that they moved. And it's just the amount of the stakes that they amount of stuff. That they try to jam in and it just becomes overwhelming and does not make any real sense. Did you get the Looney Tunes cartoon before this movie? We were late. So because there was some sort of convention at the Pasadena Convention Center across the street from the Regal Paseo. I see. Like not cinema, not Comic-Con, but something in the vicinity. So we had to spend some time looking at the characters and parking. I see. They ran what I thought was a new Looney Tunes cartoon centered around Daffy Duck. And it was a little bit postmodern because rather than hunting for ducks, Elmer Fudd was watching soccer at home. And Bugs was there and Bugs would like set up Elmer Fudd to get really into soccer. But it was like it was a proper Looney Tunes cartoon. It was five minutes long. It was very entertaining. And it was not there was some kind of modern society societal idea grafted on top of it. Yeah. But it wasn't so much so that it It didn't feel like it was for kids. And the modern societal ideas grafted onto this, besides like everybody has a part to play in capitalism, is that that is a message of the movie is that. Moms are there at their best when they're caring for other people. I was so pissed at all of the mom stuff in this movie. And the big reveal is that she used to be cool and creative, but then she decided that the most important thing to her was taking care of other people. Which then now, you know, including her children. So she's moved and given up her whole life so they can be in the marching band. And then the other woman in character in the movie is an evil landlord, fine, who only shops at HomeGoods. Wow, you felt attacked. Yes. As you know, my house. My house is covered in live, laugh, love. I do actually want to make jam session t-shirts that say jam session, live, laugh, love. I think that would be funny. Great. You should call Jordan Firstman. He's really good at t-shirts. So I was underwhelmed by that. It felt like a very you got this mama the movie. It did, but she's not in the movie. That's the thing. She's out working, you know, single mom. I know. What happened to dad? Where's he at? I don't know. Nowhere to be seen. Yeah. He wasn't visited by the cat in the hat. He wasn't rocking out at the nursing home. Yeah. I think there's something. It is the Pixar hangover. We're in the major Pixar hangover. 25 years of Pixar's utter dominance, not just in style, but in storytelling approach where you have to blend a kind of antic knowing sensibility that will appeal to parents with wider structures so that there's a more elaborate world on top of a sense of real. I'm still kind of a mark for the Pixar when it's doing it well. Like Toy Story 5, as you know, like that really worked for me. Yeah. But when it's in like lesser hands, as this movie seems to be in, it's kind of tough. Just remember that I saw like an Andrew Stanton interview that was like, Andrew Stanton believes that there can be a balance in kids and devices. And I was like, I bet he does. But yeah, I mean, I just this isn't, you know, executed at the level of even Toy Story 5. And it is trying to do all of the things that those stories do. But with like not a good script, it's not very funny. I think that Bill Hader is perfectly good as cat in the hat. And otherwise, the voice performances are not very good. I liked waffles. But like waffles doesn't have any good lines. I thought it was pretty funny. I was kind of charmed by the things, except then I was like my children. Do not need examples of people hitting each other. So pretty minions coded the things they are. And that's what we like about it. The other day, my one of my sons just set off walking in the neighborhood and he said, going to see the minions, mama, because there were some Halloween decoration minions. So that was beautiful to me. Great. You've passed it down. But I mean, this script's not very funny. And again, there's this disconnect between they like they have this IP, but it has nothing besides the recognizable name of the cat. And they can't translate anything about what was good about the original. So they have to borrow third hand versions of other stuff. Yeah. To make a movie that is like, that's not bad. I didn't think it looked as bad as some other movies that I've seen. I think the animation is pretty good. Yeah. And the colors are really beautiful. It doesn't it doesn't look sloppy. So I appreciated that. But when they go into the boxes is kind of interesting. It's very inside out coded. Yeah. But the style of animation is good. You're right. It's just so strange that there are zero good. Yeah. Actors, the Lorax, Horton Hears a Who. There's a handful of these in the last 20 years. The Grinch movie, like those movies are not good. The original Grinch TV special obviously is amazing. And there have been some good TV specials over the years, but they haven't really cracked this egg yet. Do you guys have any relationship to the 2003 film, The Cat in the Hat? I watched it for the first time with my daughter who loved it. And I thought I thought it was pretty evil. Yeah. I watched that when I was six, probably 500 times. So it's it is awful. But it's kind of just. It's like forever comfort in my brain. Interesting. I mean, it's bad. Mike Myers is unnerving. It's also has a very mature sense of humor for a movie ostensibly for kids. It does. Have you seen it before? You haven't seen it? No. Or I mean, it rings a bell, but then is also kind of exists in my head with the Jim Carrey Grinch. And, you know, those were of an era and a performance style. I wasn't a fan of that one either, though. I've been told to shut the fuck up about that opinion. Well, I mean, he suffered a lot in that makeup chair. So Jim Carrey. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But it's worth it. You know, directed that film. Ron Howard. Uh huh. OK. I think weird thing with Paramount where they have three animation houses under their stead now and we'll see what happens. This is Warner Brothers animation. By the way, another another L for Warner Brothers that a movie like this only open to 20 million. Yeah. Epic cold streak right now. What are you going to do to fix it? Nothing. Have you seen Misty Green? I have. OK. Let's talk about this. This is a sticky wicket. Yeah. Written and directed by Chris Rock. This movie was released in October and came and went. I don't think it played on more than 200 screens. It did not do well financially at all. And then this funny thing happened where the producer of the film, Peter Rice, was hired by Netflix. Look at that. Lo and behold, the film, I think, skipped VOD entirely. And on this Monday, it goes straight to Netflix. So people will get a chance to see this movie, which stars. Rosalind Elazar, Adam Driver, Daniel Kaluuya, Anna Kendrick, Topher Grace, and Chris Rock. You look at that cast, you'd think, why was this movie not marketed straight up the wazoo? We'll talk about that in a minute. Award-winning actress Misty Green, stuck in the throes of a fading career, revisits her past and addresses her personal demons as she tries for a comeback after reconnecting with her former talent agent. What do you think about this movie? One of Chris Rock's better movies and left a very bad taste in my mouth. Yeah. And I've been trying to figure out. You know, there has been, speaking of discourse, some questions about the representation of the women characters in this film. And I don't know if I think this movie is misogynistic. I think it's just mean. And I think it's mean to pretty much everyone but the character played by Chris Rock. 100% true. Which is like, which is like very notable. But I did find myself kind of itchy at some of the scenes and some of the choices. But with respect both to the women characters and the movie at large, it just kind of feels odd. That said, I think there were a lot of really great performances in it. Yeah. It's a very strange movie. This is like a classic mixed for me where there's things about it I really liked. I mean, it's a movie with Daniel Kaluuya and Adam Driver doing great work. Really great work. Rosalind Eleazar, I'd not seen her before. Oh, because you're not a Slow Horses person. I don't watch Slow Horses. Yeah. She's magnificent. She's so, so good. She has an incredible power on screen. Yeah. She really is captivating. I think that there are times when I think her character is given a fair shake and there's a real effort to give her a dimensionality that you don't see. And then there are other times where you don't really understand her motivations. You don't understand her relationships. There's stuff between her and the Anna Kendrick character where I'm just like, this is just what like a mean divorced guy thinks about how two women talk. And you know, Chris Rock, who for me, absolute generational figure, going back to seeing him in stuff like. New Jack City and then seeing him on SNL and then bringing the pain, just like changing my life and being one of my favorite things in the world. Like I absolutely admire and really love his comedy, but his comedy is very mean. It is very sharp and hard and it always has been. And it's interesting because like in his movies, he never quite could get to that. That didn't really translate. He was always making these kind of high concept movies that were kind of frowned upon. Frothy and fun and didn't really. And this actually is his sensibility, but he chose to make a movie about like an aging woman. Yeah. And it's like not quite a fit with that tone. You know what I mean? Yes. I keep wondering if he didn't play the character that he plays in the film, would I feel differently about the tone of the film? He plays a filmmaker who is a real nice guy. And he's just doing his best to give someone a second chance and hear someone out. And he also lacks, his character lacks a dimensionality. He gets a lot of funny lines and the movie kind of shifts gears pretty dramatically when he is like having dinner with her and just kind of doing Chris Rock stand up for 10 minutes. And it's very entertaining, but it feels out of place in the movie. And then there are these more sinister elements where you've got Adam Driver plays this conniving, almost satanic film producer and the way that he operates with women is very suspect. Kaluuya plays Misty's brother who has some serious mental health struggles and then finds himself ensnared in this kind of strange story about the LAPD that intersects with this film. Topher Grace is also kind of in another movie where he's playing like a dopey agent character who has some unethical practices, but is really trying to get Misty the part that she deserves. It's a really, really like embittered movie about Hollywood and how hard Hollywood is. And you can feel Rock. Bringing some of his struggles with making movies and acting in movies to the table. And it does feel a little bit like The Bad and the Beautiful or Two Weeks in Another Town or The Player where it's like something. stuff so specific that it feels pulled directly from personal experience but then some stuff is so weird and vague where it's like why is dream girls the movie that's being remade when there was a dream girls movie yeah in this century but it's like they needed a shorthand for the audience to understand like what misty green like what kind of actor misty green is right it's really it's kind of all over the place i kind of liked it but i kind of was frustrated by it i mean it is a movie about la and hollywood and and we love those yeah and we like all of the actors including chris rock so there is every moment that i was kind of like i don't know what's going on here then there was something that made me laugh or something i recognized because again it does have that like memoristic sort of pulled from actual um experiences feel to it i don't know i i guess it's in common with the player but the player has some distance that's this movie feels like it has no distance from what is happening it's not really satire it's just melodrama it's just showing you things that you'll recognize in the world of hollywood and then the the part that is more satirical is the story of the homeless and how that works in los angeles the movie just like it's trying to do nine things at the same time that did not land again like i kind of admire him for doing it there's a version of this in another movie that's coming out later this year that handles this much more visually elegantly i would say and look there is a massive homeless problem in los angeles and it is a it's a there is an absurd um contrast a lifestyle experience in this city where everyone is trying to pretend it's not happening the way that people complain about it in this city makes them seem like the most evil people in the world where it's just an inconvenience to them and not to the individual people who are struggling we've had multiple election cycles in this city where people are promising to fix this issue which is not fixable with a one-size-fits-all kind of thing and i give him credit for trying to get at that feeling of like social distortion that we're living through right but it's this isn't the right movie for that yeah and and then it's also muddled in with so much ugliness towards other things that it's portraying that you can't like he is trying to make a point about the los angeles that you see on the screen and that is performed versus the los angeles that many people are living and even the misty green character like starts overlooking the pacific like in uh the palisades and she's threatened with homelessness and then she's living in her car at points so i i do sort of understand why it's there but there's just tonally because it's in so many different places and also again because it doesn't have any distance it's still working through it's like this is a very angry movie you know which is like that's which i think there's plenty of reason to to be but it's i i don't know there's there's a lot yeah it's kind of the it is kind of the dark evil cousin of club kid where it's like it's the opposite coast yeah everyone who's on everyone's everyone's on drugs everyone's a vampire yeah everyone no one keeps their promise everything is going to come back to bite you work if you don't work hard you're going to get you know drummed out of this industry right um it and if you do work hard you still might because they're like on you know it's it's not a fair place and yeah i i i kind of like having movies like this in the culture where like it's really trying to do something it it maybe it itself doesn't have its have enough distance from its own interests yeah um and i completely agree with you about the female characters it's kind of jarring at times right where like the amy landaker character is the same thing the just shows up and is yelling and yeah and then they're just fighting over like all women fight about is you know access to real estate funded by men it's like not ideal yeah what a strange movie um this this is also like it's that time of year where all the hopefuls are starting to like this six months ago i was like oh maybe maybe chris a24 chris rock's oscar moment and then resigned to the dustbin yeah um you feeling good yeah two good movies including one of my favorites of the year yeah two mixed two negative in the case the cat in the hat yeah that's like those are good numbers right that's a decent batting average there's there's so much stuff coming out i mean i this month i don't know if i'm gonna be able to do it i don't know if i'm gonna be able to do it i have like i have a headache yeah you know because i play rocky being human fjord yeah ebenezer your boy i can't i can't believe you're doing this to me ebenezer for sure we're doing it tell them tell the people what else we're doing on the ebenezer episode christmas carol movie rankings i sent you some what i thought was really fun gossip uh by a text didn't get a response and then woke up the next morning to just you were like cool and then what gossip i'm not gonna share that on the podcast and then you were like cool and then sent me a link to a private letterboxd list of all the christmas carol movies so i could be prepared to rank them it's not uh that's not the kind of uh that's exactly what people think is i know i know and it's important to be true to yourself i know that i that came in last night as i was watching one of them and he was like what are you watching and i was like i honestly can't talk to you about it right now there are 13 of them i know 13 you big dickens guy that's an interesting question i hated reading the books in school hated reading them yes but i'm glad i read them okay and i read a bunch of them okay and now i but now i feel like i have some cultural grounding because they're totally yes they are in all stories and and also in and in in storytelling and yeah really episodic storytelling i mean his influence is fucking crazy uh i totally i i don't think i liked a single one of the books that i read me either that's okay maybe tell two cities tell two cities is pretty cool okay uh okay well you know what let's go to my conversation now with jordan firstman jordan firstman is here i've been so excited to talk to you here's what i want to start with um i'm from huntington no fucking way and i didn't know you were from long island until three days ago not even long island north port i know you're i mean this is what i wrote i've been there millions of times my cousins are from uh north port so i've spent a ton of time in north port that now i see i'm like understanding same this is exactly how i felt i was like oh yeah because i do you have a familiar i think to many people you have a familiarity type of vibe um but now even more like yeah you definitely remind me of kids i went to high school with you too so tell me about your experience but wait but wait i want to give you a present to start okay right now right now okay can we do it now of course okay you know i i love my merch and i know you guys have talked about my merch so i merch i thought amanda was going to be here but i want to see which which shirt you pick because we have okay these are relics like these are iconic ones that a24 will not let me make anymore oh no so i think you should take i boofed that cam and all i got was this lousy shirt people were rocking that at cam but we also have like a doll line and a sickening dose stat which i can explain more later or you can be a basic bitch and get like a regular no i don't want that no no i don't want that i'll do i'll do the booth i knew you're gonna do that and then can we can we give amanda doll line and sickening we 100 can but where's my bjorken bareback t-shirt it's coming okay well it's really funny i was like on i was like on a marketing call yesterday with a24 and i like i came with like a document of 40 t-shirts and i was like i think we should just do all of them they were like we can't do who's paying for that we can't yeah i was i even i was like i'll pay for it like if it's about money guys like i got you um but then i i said in the call i'm like i just think this is like a t-shirt kind of movie totally and then sarau at a24 called me after he's like everyone was dying when the call left like it's a t-shirt kind of movie like what the fuck does that even mean i do know what you mean though it is a t-shirt movie there's so many like lines that could be on t-shirts and i it and inappropriate funny t-shirts are in the movie they play a role in the movie no question so i think it does make sense well thank you for the the merch yeah i do love merch i can't promise you i'll wear it i'm kind of a sweaters only on camera but even if you if you have i boofed under a sweater like it gives you a confidence i agree there's a spiritual power to that yeah um can you tell me about growing up in new york and because you know that i as i revisited the film yesterday you talk about like you're gonna love long island and the idea of like sneaking into the city which i totally recommend yeah truly um what kind of kid were you what were you into when you were growing up because long island there's some positives but there are many negatives about yeah i mean i wanted i wanted out like i really felt i like like affluence was such like a big aspiration to me and i yeah i grew up watching woody allen movies and like just seeing these affluent new yorkers that lived on the upper west side or upper east side and like like yeah watching hannah and her sisters i was like i want to be that like i want to be a like struggling actress in new york it was always actress but like i did always i don't know and then i got really into company by stephen sondheim and like i just saw myself as but i was like i want to be a sad 35 year old bachelor in new york that like has some money like i don't know i just okay i saw your dreams come true i mean i have i have a boyfriend now okay so minus one but i'm 35 i'm bobby's age i'm bobby's age right now um but i don't know yeah i i think i think they did come true but i was always like Like I convinced my parents I didn't have school on Fridays for two years. And somehow they were going through their own divorce. So they were just like not paying attention to me. And we had so many similar experiences. Oh, really? Yeah, exact same. Yeah. And so I would go into the city on Thursday after school, kind of do my thing with my like summer camp friends who live there and sleep on their couches and then come back for school Monday morning. The school that was not bothered by you? Oh, they were like, they're like, you have to come to school on Fridays. I was like, I think I do. I think you should need to double check the attendance. No, I got, I, they, I had problems in that school. They, you know how, you know, I've had problems at that school. They've never posted me. Oh. Like I should be there. You're not beloved alumni. I'm not a success story. They're like, they're like Jay Rodriguez from Queer Eye can get the post. Oh, okay. He deserves it. Sure. That's nice. Did you always know you were going to be a filmmaker? Like you talked about seeing Hannah and her sisters. And, and aspiring to these lifestyles. But did you have a consciousness of filmmaking cinema? Like, was that something you were into as a kid? I, I think it came a little bit later. Like in, when I was like 18 or 19, that I got really into like Indies and I was, got really into the mumblecore movement. Um, and yeah, like seeing the Duplass movies and, and like Lynn Shelton, like I got really into that in my early twenties and, and just like the more I watched movies. Cause I, I was thinking I was going to be, I guess an actor when I was a kid, then that shifted to maybe comedy, but I really didn't like the scene. Like I hated hanging out with comedians. Um, why just so negative and cutthroat and, uh, just not my vibe. Like I'm, I like, like a positive environment. I like fun. I think film people are actually pretty positive and like, just like good energy. And like, there is this. There's a community aspect in like, whether you're in, in the independent film world, not as a creative or creative, but there is this, like, we're going to push the boulder up the hill together. And I really like the, the camaraderie and the community aspect of it. So yeah, I made my first short when I was 21 and that I got into festivals. So I did like a little mini circuit and that's when I was like, okay, these are my people. Like, and then I spent like years every year going to New Orleans film festival and Maryland film festival. And like all these kinds of regional, like incubators with like, you know, I was, I was at Maryland with Jane Schoenbrun. Like we were like, just trying to, trying to do cool stuff. And a lot of the people that are, you know, Josephine Decker, like the, these were the people that were kind of around in my early twenties that it just like, it felt like we were wanted to make like, like Nathan Silver. Yeah. Like we wanted to like make like cool stuff. Yeah. It's funny. I think about, um, it's the day. It's the day after election day. And there's a big, big, big reckoning. And I say we're, we're blundered. Truly. We're blundered. Um, and how there's, to me, this big millennial wave of people that are being elected and that have a strong voice. And I feel like it's very similar in film culture right now, where there is this huge crop of people, some of whom are in their early to mid forties. Now people like you who are in their mid thirties, people like Jane, who are like really kind of coming forward and redefining. And I, I was pretty skeptical that that was going to happen. It felt like it was going to happen for almost 10 years. It didn't feel like it was going to happen. It felt like they were going to skip us. Yes, it did. It was like, oh, we're going to skip that. And then like, we'll have like Tate McRae. Yes. It felt like that. And I do feel like this year, something that, yeah, it's like, we're coming into our power and like mom, Donnie has just been like, so inspirational to see that happen. And like, we were just talking about, I think it's like also like, I think the pandemic made a lot of millennials like really passive and like, you know, like, you know, like, and depressed and like, and I think we're over it and we want to be in power and we want to, we have so much to say and we have, we, our morals are so like strong and we've always had that. And, you know, I, I, I came of age when girls was coming out and you know, that even the resurgence of girls is like, it was like an indicator. And now I feel like, yeah, we are in this moment where we're like, no, we are like, we're not cringe. Like we're, we're a little cringe, but we're also like, yeah, and it's, but we're good people. And like, we have, we have strong values and we know art. Like we like millennials, like re like hipster culture was that it's like, I'm going to know the most niche thing. We were obsessive consumers. Yeah. And we cataloged our taste. That's what I do for a living now. Um, yeah, it's, I, I only knew you as a, as an actor, um, for the longest time. I didn't know that you'd been making shorts. I didn't know that, you know, you'd been working on trying to make a television series for some time. So was that, was there a moment where you felt like you were kind of hitting roadblocks with those things? You thought I should just stick to the acting portion. It was, I don't know. I, I, I think I went where the wind was taking me also just, you know, you have to survive. So where the, where the jobs are, you go. And I think, I think I more thought I would be like, um, yeah, behind the scenes more because I was writing for TV shows. That was like the bulk of my mid twenties was I wrote for search party. I wrote for the other two and big mouth and, and I was like, okay, like I have a place in these rooms. I'm like pitching things that are, you know, becoming the viral moments of these shows. And so that's why I wanted, I was like, I do feel like I should have my own show. And actually I thought it was more the fact that I wanted to star in them that was holding me back a bit, but also that I was wanting to tell explicitly queer stories. I think it was like time and time again, they would be like, we want to, but you know, that niche is the word they would always love to use. But yeah, I was in a four year. Development on one show. And then when, then, you know, the Instagram thing happened. So I sold another show and that was like, this is, we had like a bidding war and like, it was definitely happening four years later that didn't happen. And so, yeah, this was always, this was always the plan. And I think, I think club kid came from, I think in the way we made it came from an urgency and a necessity. I was like, I'm not doing development again. I'm not, I, I'm after that show didn't go. I was like, I'm not pitching a show again. Ever. Maybe. I mean, never say never, but, but I was like, I am making a movie like I, and I'm going to make it a scale that is manageable and I want it to feel big. And I want it to feel like all of these years of work I've done in other arenas, like are culminate culminating in, in, in this piece, but I need to make it. And I, and so, you know, I had audience in mind when I'm making it more than anything I've ever done. I had scale. I had, you know, I just had the way I knew I could make this movie. So funny though, because you'd think that getting a TV show off the ground in this period of time would be easier than getting a movie off the ground and a movie like this, you know, we're having a great year, but it's pretty unlikely. And I think one of the reasons why people like me and so many other people are responding to it is because it is kind of classical and it is new at the same time. Like how much of that were you strategizing for that? Was it just an, like an emotional outpouring when you were writing it? It was. It was both. I think, like I said, like I knew, I knew I wanted this to be like a marker for me. And, and I, you know, I made it at 33, 34 years old. I'm like, this can't really feel like a first feature. Like I, I was like, it's a little embarrassing if this feels amateur because I've been in doing this for a long time. And so, you know, I held myself to a very high standard, but also I was like, yeah, I'm going to use these, these benchmarks. Of these, these films that people know and love. Cause I still want to stay, say my stuff. Like I want to throw in my subversive, subversive messaging and, and, and say things that people haven't heard before. But in order to do that, I think I'm going to need to let people into a story that feels familiar. So I really wasn't afraid of tropes if I was doing them in my own way. And I think every, every like quote unquote trope in the movie is subverted, whether it be like, I don't know, I don't know. I push him down to the ground. Like that to me, I had that shot in my mind. I don't even know if it's a real shot, but like I had the shot from behind of a father and son kind of tussling and it's like, oh, I pushed him down. So it's like, that's my take on it. And then, you know, then adding my, my queerness and just like adding what the struggles I'm seeing in myself and my community are. But yeah, having these, having these familiar kind of a familiar vibe really that, that audience can be like, okay. I feel safe on this journey so I can take in more information. I can, I can take in some, some niche jokes and I can take in some things I've never heard before or things I've never seen before because like, I feel safe here. Was it still hard to raise money for it? No, no. What does that tell you that, um, making a show about a queer guy versus making a film about a queer guy is one is not as hard as the other, or there's not as many hurdles. Like, does that indicate anything to you? Is it just different projects? Yeah. I think timing too. It was like, I, I had more of a name for myself. I still wasn't, and I'm not a household name, but you know, I, I, I love LA had just gotten green lit. Coco was on the movie Coco. The, we, your producer, Alex Coco, like we sent out the script like a couple of weeks after they won the Oscar, just like by coincidence, I think that didn't hurt us, but no, I mean, we, we sent it out. and we had, we had offers to fully finance it immediately. Yeah, that is fascinating. And I've never had that even close to happen. Were you ready to do it or was there any part of you that was like, oh shit, careful what I wish for? I was scared because I wanted it to be really good. And so it was more just, I put a lot of pressure on myself and it was very stressful, but I knew the script was good. And I knew I was talking about something really personal to me. And it was hitting. It was like, you know, everyone kind of cried when they read the script. And so I was like, this is translating. And so now my job is for everything to meet the script at the level that it's at. And so, you know, getting Adam Newport-Berra to shoot it, getting Carmen Cuba, getting Lucy Bevins, getting Stephen Phelps, the department heads were a league above a first-time filmmaker. I do think because the script, it was affecting them. Yeah, I was going to ask you about that. I mean, it's unmistakable that it does not feel like a first feature. Maybe some of the narrative structure does feel, it's sort of like an announcement of a new voice, but the style is so clean and tight. Is it people, these people just read it and they wanted to do it? Yeah, I mean, Adam. Is that how it works, by the way? I mean, honestly. Yeah, I mean, you send the script and they say yes or no, basically. And Adam didn't have time, didn't need, I mean, it was way lower rate. than he was used to getting, but he had just had a kid and just related to it. And he, yeah, he was on a plane and said he like broke down crying and he was like, I have to shift stuff around to do this. And it was, I mean, it's such a miracle that we had him because I think, you know, he adds so much to this movie, even in terms of like being a first-time director and temperament. Like he has a very calm way of working. Like he is daddy. Like he feels like daddy. Yeah. And he makes everyone around him feel really safe and calm. And I just think creatively, we really complimented each other. I think he really has an eye for beauty and really values beauty. And I think I really value authenticity and greatness and reality. And so I think the movie does have this really cool balance of like beauty versus reality and does feel like a fairy tale at some points. And, you know, I wanted it to feel, I wanted it to feel like when I was, a kid and would go to the city in the fall with my parents, like what that felt like. It's like, it's the wonder and the colors and the browns and the reds. And you know what I mean? No, there's multiple moments in the movie where you and Reggie are walking down the street in Chinatown. And I'm like, that is New York. That is definitely, that is the New York that I lived in for sure, 100%. And it doesn't feel like whatever New York is now. It does, there is something a little bit more historical, whether it's 70s or 90s or however you want to define it. And that's why we shot in Chinatown. And it's why our Peter lives there. I think it's, a part of the city that feels more unchanged. I think we tried to find streets that didn't have cars on them. We really wanted it to feel nostalgic and feel like this kid is experiencing the New York that I experienced growing up. What about finding all these people for the cast? I mean, obviously you worked with Carmen, who's extremely seasoned casting director, but it feels like an amazing mixture of people that you know in your life, of discoveries, of very recognizable people doing something you don't quite expect. Like, how did you think about dotting the cast? Yeah, it was just, it was like person by person. And I knew I wanted to cast people from the scene as the friends. That was always, always the, you know, a non-negotiable for me. I just think party people look a certain way. They feel a certain way. They talk a certain way that I was just like actors. Like Miss Benny is kind of our only traditional, actress involved in that cast. And the rest of them I met at raves. And I scouted at raves. And I would, you know, Alaska, like I met at a rave and we spent the whole night. And like, there are, like the club is its own kind of ecosystem and it has celebrities. Like the club, like inside the club, like Alaska walks in and everyone knows who Alaska is. Like she is a star in her community. So I wanted to find Saturn too in LA. It's like, everyone knows who Saturn is. Like they know when she's DJing. They know when she's going to do a live performance. But yeah, I wanted to build this cast of like niche stars that all, I say this, but I think everyone in the cast could have their own movie. And then, yeah, you just build it out. And then I met Diego Calvin. I was like, oh my God, this like, I rewrote the character for him. Cause I'm like, our chemistry was just there. And then Cara, I like woke up one morning. I was like, oh my God, it's Cara. Like it's cause Sophie is like a tricky character. And I just felt, I felt it was an interesting choice. I felt like I hadn't seen her do something like this. I'm a huge Valerian fan, but different vibes. She is serving. What do both movies have in common? You tell me. Rihanna. Oh, that's right. Yeah, that's right. That's a very good point. That is the extended universe. Yeah, but yeah, I think, and yeah. And then I was just like, oh, like her personal connection to this story. I like, I like kind of having those lines be a little blurred, like you, with my previous work. Like I like, I like when things come with baggage and things come with history. Cause it makes you just kind of like see things in a different way. But I mean, the casting process was so fun. And then, and then Reggie, Reggie was our miracle. Like he, this movie lived and died with that kid. And, and yeah, I just, I, he was sent to me by God. Like it was. How, I know you've told this story before, but how did you. Yeah. How did you meet him? How did he come across your, your table? Yeah. So Carmen did, did our, our main casting. And then we had Lucy Bevins in the UK who had just cast Harry Potter. And so she's, she had just seen 40,000 kids. Oh, right. She knew every kid in the UK. She knew every kid. And so she sent me my first, my first, like, you know, you get these files of like a hundred kids. She sent me a hundred kids and I saw Reggie's face in there. And it was, I, I had like, it was like a flash of love. Like. The face I've been writing, like it, when he had the same face. Cause when you're writing, it's like you, you either have people in mind and you write for them. But this movie I didn't like Saturn kind of was the only person I had in mind when I was writing it. But. Besides yourself. Besides myself. No, it was supposed to be Paul Mesco. No, no. I was like, wow, this is a revelation. I hadn't heard that. No, no, no. I think he would actually be the only person that I could accept as Peter, but I just don't think he re it could be gay. Like he, he was gay and all of us strangers, but like faggot, Peter's a faggot. It could only be. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It always gave. I want to ask you about that because, um, you know, you're doing something that there's a long history of this, of sort of like writing your way into a kind of stardom that maybe you desire and that you always hope for that you idolize or think about, you know, like Dennis Hopper did this for example, like how do you think about how to personify yourself? Because coming into the movie, you did have like a public persona to people. The people who knew you, you know what I mean? And it was very funny and it could be controversial too. Did you think of this as like a correction? Did you think of it as this is my true self? Like how did you think about framing yourself? Yeah. I, I felt like I wanted to write something from the heart and like that was most important to me. But if you had read my scripts for my TV show, I wrote both of those shows. I wrote the full season by myself. Like I, I was like tired of waiting for like lawyers and stuff. And so I just went and wrote it. But they're similar, like this is my writing style and I just haven't gotten a chance to show it. And I do, you know, I, I like to think I am a deep thinker and I care about life. And I, and I've, you know, I spent my twenties doing ayahuasca trips and like learning a lot of stuff just about, about the world and about myself. And I love to travel. I love to go to new places and see new people. So that's who I am. And like, I think the persona. The persona kind of like swallowed me at a certain point and I was, I was over it. I was like, I felt so misunderstood and I was like, I was tired of people like talking shit about me online. I'm like, you don't know me. This is actually, isn't who I am. Everyone in my life knows I'm a sweetie. And so like, it's time, it's like time to show this side of myself, but then also really just also wanting to write something super honest. I just. Yeah. It was, it was always the point. No, there's something powerful about that though, about thinking about how you're perceived and trying to break that or redefine that, that I, I don't think you should shy away from that when you talk about what you made too, because like you're the author of your own fate, right? Yeah, I agree. And I think I moved to LA being like, I'm gonna reinvent myself. I didn't know anyone here. I had had a really traumatizing year in New York and, and a bad thing happened and I was like, I'm going to go to LA and like make. Yeah. Make myself different. And I think I've had different eras and yeah, I mean the, the persona part, there's still that side of me and Peter's like a little like bit of a bitch sometimes, like he's like, like he has that sass, he's a, he has the sass in him, but like, he's a, he's a sweetie like, and I do think, I do think I share the heart of Peter. I think we're different in a lot of ways, but I would like to thank the people around me and like my family, especially. Yeah. really, really nice for my family to see because they know like the kid they like know the kid that i am and i think it hurt them a lot to like see people like hating on me and like you know one of my sisters like really was like way too online like she would like send me tweets about myself i'm like i really this is helping no one this happens yeah yeah but i don't know i think it hurt them it hurt them to like see me be so misunderstood because they they knew me how about um directing yourself and knowing if you're doing a good job getting the performance that you need out of yourself and trying to balance that while shooting your first feature i think a lot of it is just instinct like you just know when something feels good but i just knew i knew this script so well by that point i like i had done 40 rewrites of it i knew ever i knew everyone's lines and so i think having having that being with the script for that long helped and then yeah just my team like adam newport bear would give me acting notes uh like uh alex coco would be behind monitor galen core ryan heller like these everyone i trusted everyone um there were a couple times where like you know four people were running up to me giving me and i'm like let's choose one one person but also i know i i know when it's right yeah i also having acted in so many things i think i the the great part about it and why we always made our days is because i knew when we got it i did not i did not know when it was going to happen i did not know when it was going to happen i did not i i knew the second we had the scene and i was also kind of editing in my head i was like well well we have that i know we have that line that delivery was amazing we have that delivery and i would be saying like note that delivery like we would kind of like note that delivery note that delivery and people would be writing it down so you know there was like a lot of like cylinders being being sure sure being fired um but yeah i think it was it was a great combination of like trust in others and instinct and like actually like really checking my ego at the door you know i'm a relatively new father i think a lot of fathers of young kids are kind of pulverized by the movie you know you're you're not a father yeah um i know that you you donated sperm to your sister's wife but um like how do you get into the mentality of portraying that i think i really tried to just think of these characters as people and write them as people and i think i really tried to just think of these characters as people the most honest conversations and i think i think i learned a lot about fatherhood in making the movie and kind of just like what's happened with me and reggie like i can't even like i i always i even when i think about it i get emotional because it's like this kid like he feels like my best friend now and it's like i've learned so much from him and like i we were like backstage in san francisco i don't even remember what the joke is but we were like crying laughing right before we had to go on and i was like i haven't laughed this hard since middle school like i feel like i'm like nourishing like my inner child by like being friends with a teenager and it's like such innocent laughter and i think you do get to a place in your your 30s where a lot of your friendships you talk about work or you talk about you know it becomes a little heavier the subject matter you talk about politics and and i think having a child as a so much lighter and like reggie's also like he's so even keeled and i get really stressed out about stuff and so just even being being next to him like calms my nervous system a little bit because he's not stressed yeah um so yeah i think i think i didn't go into it being like i'm gonna make this the movie to me is more more of a coming of age film than like even a father son movie it's both but i think i just tried not to think about like oh dad son but it's also like sorry i talk so much um i asked you the question yes this is what we're here for you know the like the scene of me and him in bed together i think i was also pulling from like stuff i wish i had with my parents and i wish i knew that they were people so this is something that's so beautiful about the movie is that obviously peter makes a lot of mistakes with with his his son but he also does things that are counterintuitive that a young person would do just to try to like seem cool or to befriend their kid in a way which can be dangerous but if done right like just opens a portal yeah connectivity yes that like certainly it sounds like maybe our parents were not capable of or didn't understand or did so there's something very like raw and specific and good about some of the stuff that you're modeling you know that's what parents say the model behavior but i i just love that you've landed on some of those things even though he also makes tremendous mistakes for sure engine the movie for sure and i think it's like giving giving arlo saffron and like giving him that creative practice and for like a traumatized kid an art practice is like is everything and like so i think there's there's certain gifts that even you know his his mom gave to him like she gave him tastes and music and she gave him acceptance in people like the fact that he knows what dolls are and he and he's not scared of of queer people and trans people like those you can be a really bad parent but like still give really good stuff to your kid and i think that is the question of the end it's like sharon sharon with the comfortable life that he's not going to learn much that he doesn't learn in school or peter with like the who's rough around the edges and is going to make some mistakes but opens his mind up and opens his world up and and fosters creativity i think like peter knows the soul of an artist because he's as someone who's in the party scene like you're around artists all the time and so i think he knows how to foster creativity in other people and i think he gives that to arlo yeah i don't want to psychoanalyze you but that's a very common dynamic amongst uh children of divorce is that you have one parent that gives you one thing and another parent that gives you another thing and so i don't know if there's a subconscious element to that too but yeah i mean the other thing is the music is so amazing in this movie and my experience growing up sneaking into the city was just going to record stores sometimes shows when i got a little older but going to record stores you have this great moment in the record store you see that arlo knows elliot smith yeah and and has taste yeah and is interested in stuff and then the music is kind of this kaleidoscope of obviously a lot of the club music but then you know the ethel kane sing-along and all these very specific seemingly very personal choices yeah like how did you think about choosing the songs it's really funny i think i think there's like the the pr answer and then like the honest answer i was like it's my fucking movie i'm going to put my and yeah and i think that's the best stuff yeah i'm like it's gonna feel i don't even think it's like gonna feel like personal i was just like this is what feels right to me and this song works in this moment so like even though it's it's such a hodgepodge like you have yeah like cocteau twins and slater like for to go to like yeah like ethel kane directly into slater is like such a such a mind fuck and then to to like with cocteau twins and yeah elliot smith and pinback and you know the it's very varied but i think the connective tissue is that i love all the songs and it feels like someone's personal playlist it feels like yeah like oh i get i get the through line because it feels like personal and the different mood of the character yeah this character can like this kind of music and this kind of music and this kind of music based on where they are in that station in their life yeah did you have to write letters to artists how do you get the songs the letters honey yeah yeah the letters but what was the but her emails but but her letter okay but that works yeah i mean yeah i wrote a letter to elliot smith's family because he's not alive um uh arthur russell has like a foundation i had to write letters for i mean rihanna upwards of 20 letters really i mean she was hard to get to she was really and we didn't but you did it two weeks before cam we did not have that song no way and they and my producers begged me to shoot an alt and i was like no we're getting it i promise you we're getting that was risky yeah but i was like we're getting it i just i i i like to will things into existence and and i don't even really like yeah we got in touch with her manager i explained to her manager how important this moment was and how important she is to queer people like this is like it's like she having her stamp in this movie open the movie like people will recognize the game that get the game i wanted to ask you about that scene actually because it's such an amazing announcement like stylistically emotionally what the scene itself is like uh was that something that came very early in writing it did you see it visually in your head as soon as you wrote it yeah it was the first thing yeah it was like i that was the first thing i thought of and it to the t of like the shot the song the uber driver the group the style the clothes they're wearing like everything just like came flashing back to 2016 for me i was like this is you gotta gag them like i think like i do believe in the power of like opening shot and closing shot and like if you if you if you know what those are like you're gonna figure out the middle stuff but i had the opening and the the closing shot and i was like okay they're like i have the movie it's really smart i mean i don't know if i told you this already but you know i saw it at like eight o'clock in the morning at can and uh i was like so relieved after that that shot that sequence where i was like oh great yeah yeah this person and a lot of thought and a lot of spirit, so. also it tells it's not just a statement in in the vibe but it's like you know you have you start with this outsider of the scene the uber driver and like we come in like a hurricane and like that's my announcement of like you're in our movie now and we're not like we're not we didn't make this move for you but we're inviting you into our space and so be here like be here or don't but like we're not gonna compromise just because you're here so great um why was it important to shoot on film i mean it looks better it just it's so objectively looks better and i think that was initially i think one there was not a single movie on the mood board for this movie that wasn't shot on film i didn't have one digital reference for this film can you give me a couple of mood board movies i mean yeah we obviously kramer versus kramer in a big way cruising um uh an unmarried woman i've said a lot of time kind of all mazurski like there's like a kind of unknown so underrated i know i'm like i talk about this with all my physical media dork friends because so few of his movies are available i know but yeah unmarried woman's only on blu-ray which i'm like every time i see criterion i'm like guys get it together like get it together it's such a good movie there's a bunch of them though like uh bloom and love and alex and wonderland those movies alex and wonderland's on amazon prime yes i know but you can't get them on like yeah yeah yeah but alex and wonderland too i love so it's such a cool movie that movie and also i love the way he writes kids he writes kids as people and like the relationship with jill clay clayberg and her daughter is so adult yes and very similar to the one that you yeah it's that movie was kind of my my north star like anytime i didn't know what to do with the camera i would go to that movie wow because there's an elegance like i i you know like i taught adam mooport barrett didn't like know what a gaggy shot man said but and he thought i said gack so like one day he was like i think we can do a gacky shot here and so it became a slogan on our set maybe restraint is the biggest gack of all okay that's beautiful um but yeah i think we want i i i chose my gacky moments and but the rest i did want to feel kind of elegant and i wanted the move i wanted the style cinematically to grow with peter sure and so you know we start very chaotic very you know 360 very immersive and by the end it's like most of those shots either like don't move or or don't move that much like i think there's like a real soberness to like those last like from the courtroom to the end of the movie like feel the camera work feels very sober had you mapped things out were you storyboarding or anything like that yeah yeah we were i mean we had to be because i was in every scene like i just was i wanted to be over prepared and you know we had like a 600 page like reference mood board um like yeah i mean adam had like birth in there like yeah like there were he had his own mood board and he had his own mood board and he had his own mood board and he had his own mood board and he had his own mood board and he had his own mood board like yeah i mean adam had like birth in there like yeah like there were he had his own mood board kind of thing and i had my own kind of thing and i think they they birth also tracks in terms of the odd adult dynamic between a kid and an adult yeah um and the mysterious skin moment is also very uh it's like the one time where you really like put your thumb on the scale you know or you're like this is an overt reference in a way yeah um and i feel like that movie it's so well timed because like the movie was just restored yeah craig made a movie this year like i don't can you talk about that at all i mean to me it just it tells you about what kind of gay guy he is like you're either a mysterious skin gay guy or you're a um hocus pocus gay guy or or you're like i i think of diego's character as a marvel gay right and kind of normie normie yeah there are marvel gays out there too it's so funny if i like go to a gay club in the middle of the country they're like you're the guidance counselor for miss marvel i'm like yeah among other things yeah but that's progress yeah yeah yeah yeah but but yeah i think i love that scene i love that diego is like i don't know it is an action horror comedy and like and i say you need to be a better gay guy um but yeah i think it just it tells you about a certain type of gay guy and like what they are and i say later in the scene like i'm like every other faggot in new york damaged goods and i think it's like there's alignment with these types of films and these are the types of film like weekend broke me when i saw that movie and it's like i i i love the sadness of the gay experience and the loneliness and i think i think yeah mysterious skin just like i don't know it was it was a really big moment in my life when i watched it and so i wanted to also yeah give that to peter it just felt very true yeah um how has it been so you know you premiered the movie six months ago i think some people were taken by surprise and really excited about it you got this amazing reception the movie is acquired out of the festival and then you're like oh my god i'm so excited about it i'm so excited about it i'm so excited about it and now you're on what is just a very strange thing that happens in the movie world where you're waiting you're showing the movie at festivals and waiting six months for people to see it waiting to be back on your list you're on for it for a second got out got bummed but you know there's still time you know you know there's still time um what uh how are you feeling i i feel good i feel i like i watch people leave the theater and people are moved and like that is it's i think a rare thing to happen like people love movies but like to to really move people i think is a special thing and it's it's what i've always wanted to do and so you know i'm tired i get stressed i hope i don't say the wrong thing i want to take care of my cast there's a lot going on i also am like you know i made a party movie so i we go to our after parties and people shove drugs in my face and i can't do them and that's hard because i want to but i can't because i have to wake up at seven o'clock and for hair and makeup to go do my next press day so it's been a really you're all grown up yeah this is it you know i'm of age yeah yeah no it's like i have to i do think of this movie as my baby because i'm like i can't say certain things now that i maybe would have wanted to at another time and i have to dress differently and i have to you know be responsible so i think the movie did for me what what arlo does for peter in a way is there you have any like regret or like suspicion about that too there's something really interesting it's even in the dynamic of the movie that is like how much should i be changing just because i'm getting older like there's one thing about giving up a vice yeah there's also something about like not losing yourself yeah well i don't know i think i think there's such a beauty in maturing now that i'm like starting to do it and you know i get why old people are like like the good old people are like yeah i love being old yeah you know what i mean more confidence yeah yeah and it's just like you can actually like see the more you know yourself the more you can like have space to like really see the beauty in life and like that's something i i just hope i never lose i hope i never lose my humor and i hope i never lose uh my my openness to life and beauty uh so what are you doing next like are you a i think so i think it was like the honestly the day the first day of pre-production it was like a switch happened i was like oh duh like this is what i've been supposed to have been doing my whole life but so you're doing i love la season two um yeah and like do you think you'll try to to track it where you'll do acting work and try to make movies at the same time um yeah i mean if for me right now the focus is like immediately starting the next one like i just want to make another movie and you know what it is you wrote it i i have idea okay i have ideas eloquence escaped yes yes yes yes um you don't need all the words in the sentence every time you got what i was trying to say um but no i i just want to to go into i love shooting i love la it's like we're such a family i but i think as far as you know other things coming in i definitely i don't want to feel like an actor for hire it doesn't like do as much for my soul creatively and i yeah i want to tell i want to tell stories and and tell them in my way and i think yeah like can was this moment where i was like yeah like i do deserve to be here and i i i am a filmmaker and i this like it was it was the most it was the most like validation i've ever gotten in my career which i think has to tell me something because i have been doing it for a while you got it man keep pursuing it yeah yeah i want to keep making movies uh we end every episode of this show by asking filmmakers what's the last great thing they have seen okay i know this is not it's hard to watch movies at a time like this can i do something that i i re-watched two days ago and i hadn't seen in a while yeah i re-watched my own private idaho oh yeah oh my god i forgot the scale i forgot how many locations it has what's like what spurred you to watch it um i was just like i don't p someone someone was uh in the day criterion post in my pics and like a couple people were like why why not my own private idaho and i was like oh i should re-watch that movie yeah and so i watched it was on it was on the plane and yeah they offered it on the plane yeah wow yeah and so i was like oh i'm gonna watch this you want to shout out the airline just to give them some dap i think it was delta i want to say it was delta um i'm a delta girl so i mean they try to put me on delta when they can um but yeah i just forgot how there's a kid too, like the junkiness and like the world of the. the junkies in that movie, and just like the lostness. There's some mysterious skin vibes in that too. No question. And it's this weird mix of sentimentality and the kind of brutality at the same time. You know, a super emotional movie, but also Shakespeare and, you know, kind of stiff in that way too. And very, very like, for its time, very transgressive, very transgressive. This wasn't on the mood board? No, it wasn't. I always kind of thought I liked it and didn't love it. Like, I think I just wasn't in the right mood. I watched it in my early 20s, and I've literally said, I would say that. I'd be like, it's like not my movie. I don't know why, but it's- Gus was probably around your age when you made it, maybe late 30s. Yeah, probably. Yeah, I mean, I'm a huge Gus Van Sant fan, but that one never was like my movie. But re-watching it, I was like, oh, maybe this is like my movie. It's a great recommendation. Jordan, thank you. Thank you so much. This is so fun. Well, thank you to Jordan. Thanks to Amanda. Thank you to the birthday boy, Jack Sanders. Jack, how you feeling? You know, we move. Okay, thanks to Lucas Kavanaugh for production support. Later this week, we're digging into I Play Rocky. You've seen I Play Rocky? I'm going this afternoon. Oh my God. I know. Okay, and we're going to be updating our Best Picture Power Rankings. We will see you then. We'll see you then. Fresh, quality groceries is what we do best. Restrictions apply. Kroger, fresh for everyone.