The Terrible Truth About the Visitors - Whitley Strieber | ep. 96

I have been running like hell for a long time and the world is catching up with me. They're all going to be running like hell too, believe me. Do you think the possibility of this planet being like some type of cosmic prison is at all real? That is something I never can't quite put out in my mind. Some parts of this are really extraordinary and exciting, but other parts of it are going to be hard to deal with. We will discover that slowly over time. Do you think that the NHI has the potential to like kill you over this? Oh, I think it's worse than, oh yeah, I think killing is only an incident. They're tempting us farther and farther, but at the same time, there are predators who sort of work like that, who move very, very slowly until suddenly everything changes. The mouse ends up in the jaws of the snake. Always cut the cards when you're not sure who you're playing poker with, and I'm not sure who we're playing poker with. In 1990, when I was almost 10 years old, my mom was driving back home from a late-night grocery trip back to my grandma's house where we all lived together. And when we turned on to the street, we lived on at the beginning of the block. There was a ground, saucer, spinning, many different colors, very bright, about a hundred feet above the church on that corner. All of this sudden, we all were sitting at my grandma's table, like paper grocery bags placed on the table. And my grandma walked into the kitchen and said, "What's wrong? Why don't the groceries put away?" Suddenly, we realized we didn't remember the last 55 minutes, and we all just seemed like, you know, confused. And we were trying, and my brothers said, "They're very colorful, round UFO, was spinning around, and they don't remember anything until now." Then my grandma said, "Oh my god, nice thing, you know, she went to the picture store, an old picture store, and pulled out a paper that had a scrolling of a metal table with a female laying on it, and a couple grays around her." And she said, "Did you see any of these beans?" Whitley Strieber, welcome back. It's good to be back. Well, it's good to have you back, sir. I'm glad that you were able to make the trip out, and I know that we'll also be seeing each other quite frequently in the next few months. We got contact in the desert. You'll be at, but then also, I'll be featuring you alongside myself and some other guests on the, it's probably nothing tour. As we stop off in San Francisco, we'll be there as well, so you won't be seeing the last of me today. Yeah, and I'm going to be at the Lily Dale assembly on July the 11th. That's the assembly of the spiritualist church of America near Lake Erie in upstate New York, which is a charming place. I love it, and I'll be there just with a panel with Travis Walton. And in the fall, I'm going to be doing a course on the abduction experience and how to kind of, how to live with this for ubiquity university. And I'm going to be at the in West Virginia in Virginia Beach at the Edgar case institute. So I'm going to be doing a lot to very busy man. Yeah. Well, that's good. Busy is good idle hands of the devil's play toy, they say. I have to remember that. Yeah, it's really good to have you back, and you know, last time we had this conversation, obviously a great reaction from the audience. They were very compelled by not only your stories, but like the book you put out at the time, which was a fourth mind. Right. You know, because of its relationship to the, I made a video about this, but the molecular biologist. Right. That had sort of dissected one of these beings and how that really coincided quite neatly with your experience of the physicality of the beings. That's right. And it was, you know, I've had numerous biologists look at this at this point. And it's a mixed bag in terms of some of them say, no, he, he didn't, he couldn't have been describing this correctly because it's not, this is not what I understand of biology. Others have said, this is possible. And so, but I think he probably was doing his best to remember something he actually did work on. And I have not been able to contact him for obvious reasons. I mean, we all know that they are very actively engaged on the inside in getting after people who break the security agreements. It's a serious business, so I can understand why, you know, it hasn't shown up in my life. The only follow up that I had to that was I had someone call me on this one hundred number that we have that we feature in the beginning of the episodes. And because this gentleman had mentioned, I think, Betel. Betel is more realistic. Exactly was, was where they were housing these, you know, biological experiments that they were doing in these autopsies. And so someone reached out and said, I'm a scientist, a molecular biologist that worked at Betel for a small period of time during my training for the Navy. And he said that at one point, we were joking with each other because we had to sign NDAs. And this and that, we were joking with each other among the other scientists about, oh, what if we see aliens? And he said we made a pact that day that if ever we did end up working with anything non-human that we would send a text to each other and say sorry wrong number. And so fast forward, I think two or three years down the line, they had not communicated after that. There was no communication actively between these people because, you know, they get posted to different areas and different jobs. And sure enough, he received a text out of the blue by one of these people who said, yeah, they told him, yeah, sorry wrong number. Now here's a question. I wonder why they even thought about this at the beginning when they were together. What was it that Betel that made them even think about that? Because normally, it's not something you would just think about. Yeah, they probably had to have heard some type of water cooler rumor. Exactly. Exactly. And, you know, Dr. Robert Sauerbacher, the metallurgist who died oddly enough the day I sent him the first written material that became the book communion went to Dr. Sauerbacher after we had a conversation on the phone. He died that same day, apparently. And I never got the material back, but he told me that he worked at Betel. And I think that's even in his make if his Wikipedia entry is still accurate, which isn't open question nowadays. I think it would still may be in his Wikipedia entry. So you got biology, you got metallurgy, we need to go to Betel. Yeah, Betel, Miter, all of these corporations seem to be the key to this because, well, you know, Betel has stated publicly that they have not done any of this. Sure. Yeah. Yeah, as one does when you are doing these things. Right. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah, you don't, you don't publicly state that you are doing them for obvious reasons. But so what do you make of this? Because right now we're getting into it seems to be this transition, the shift into this new paradigm where, you know, obviously there are a lot of people who are going to be a little frustrated or reluctant in acknowledging some of the disclosure efforts that have been put forth by the United States government. Due to fuzzy imagery and sort of the lack of historic transparency. But what do you make of this movement that seems to be hitting the mainstream? You know, that seems to be really moving the needle in terms of at least at the very least people's interest and curiosity versus what happened to you back in 1985. And where we are now, how does that affect you? How do you see the world right now? They're all going to be running like hell too. Believe me. Because, you know, this, this, some parts of this are really extraordinary and exciting, but other parts of it are going to be hard to deal with really hard to deal with. And we will discover that slowly over time, I think, although there's always the possibility that it could just come bursting into our lives without warning. And that's the part that worries me the most because when I look at the whole spectrum of the close encounter experience, most of the cases, people just sort of, it came into their lives. unexpectedly. A few cases, they've sort of been consciously aware of this since they were kids, but mostly it starts very abruptly when I call it the moon of activation when they see a UFO and the next thing they know they're in it or they they have missing time and they become totally obsessed with this. And you know Richard Drifus character in closing counters. Yeah closing counters. He Spielberg got that he got that total obsession that happens when you come up against an anomaly like this you can't get you can't let it go and people don't let it go they can't and eventually it's going to turn out the entire world's not going to be letting able to let it go and with right now there's something like 700 million views of the new government's disclosure website and most of the stuff on it is pretty old at so far. Yeah I agree right but look at the number of views that immense level of interest it's extraordinary. Yeah if that doesn't at least you know inspire or motivate some of the government to move even faster other world governments you know now we're seeing Japan come into the conversation as well recently and possibly yeah yeah I feel like that's the healthiest course of action because so many of the criticism with the United States government is that why do they only land in the U.S. Why is it only in the U.S. Which we know it isn't right but it would also be nice to have these other countries start opening up their sort of classified files to this topic as well. Well there are certain countries that have more than others in South America Brazil undoubtedly has a great deal more than most countries and that's important to open up because that's a really challenging experience down there. France I know does and at least I'm sure pretty sure it does that they've been collecting this information for years and it sort of edges up to the surface every once in a while and Italy probably does as well. I don't know about the UK I know they must have they've had some extraordinary cases there and undoubtedly they have some some amazing files but yeah but they're very very quiet about. Yeah they declassified a whole bunch in 20 was it 2017 I believe. Yeah but it wasn't much there wasn't much too what they declassified. No it was sightings. That type of thing but again like a lot of the stuff that we're seeing now we're seeing a lack of acknowledgement on what this stuff is. They're kind of just putting it out there and being like we're not responsible for whatever you think it is and that seems like a cowardice type of approach to when you're like hey just get behind this thing you know you're saying UAP you know why not let's talk about the other stuff too let's talk about the elephants in the room let's talk about the Roswells the the Kecksburg. Yeah you know. And also what what has been what kind of conclusions because the there must have been and must still be a great deal of work being done on this I know that their general art exon who was involved in this he was later he was commandant of right pat and in 47 according to what he told me he was directly involved in the what happened when the debris in the bodies were brought to right field it was as it was called then yeah under general climbing he was in the air and take air material command or it worked in this and they could have easily pulled in officers from other parts of the of the command at the time because I'm sure that air material wasn't all that big and all of a sudden they had this major thing so in any case he told me in 1988 when I talked to him that they had a lot of pencils up meetings and that meant that he would go down he was still even in retirement going down to right pat from where his where he was to fill in the scientific group that was still working on this with what they had discussed in these meetings wow now that means that there's a lot that we'll never know because it was hidden by not being recorded but the other problem is this a lot of the records that were recorded I think have been all floated into the private sector and I can be fairly specific about that back in the early 90s when I was living in upstate and well it's downstate in New York to most New Yorkers but 90 miles north of Manhattan the town of Woodstock people began to complain that there were trucks going to the EG&G Roadtron facility in Woodstock waking keeping them awake all night and apparently they were documents being moved in large quantities to that facility from Gunness Knows where but wherever they were coming from I would guess where government facilities EG&G Roadtron is a private facility and every document that went in there moved out of the freedom of information umbrella and was no longer accessible and I think that that it ordered if we are ever going to find the any really substantive material about this we got to get it from a private sector yeah it's a tricky tricky line to walk well it Congress can do it I mean there can be legislation to do this there can be but the what that what that also entails is a violation of you know people's personal intellectual property and so you know you can't you can't have one without the other if you say that the government is allowed to go into private corporations and take what they deem to be exotic material you know where is that line who decides where that line ends and now suddenly you know some inventors out there inventing something completely on his own but they deem it to be exotic and take it away from him not saying that I'm totally against or for anything but it does open a interesting kind of worms yeah and worms are however I will say this I know inventors whose inventions have been taken that way so that does happen definitely happens what's one case that you can remember well yeah okay I it's a little dicey because it's there's a case of a communications system that I someone I knew invented and his invention was classified it wasn't taken from him in the sense of they didn't say well we're taking your invention and we're making it ourselves and you're not getting any money he's still getting money from it but but it's classified and he can't he can't do anything talk about it anymore it's an exotic communication system was it dirty now yes I do I'm guessing you don't want to share that I well let's put it this way it's a really exotic and it it involves instantaneous communications whoa in it's not a quantum quantum communications is something else and it's something that I don't think anybody is really very aware of and he's a wonderful sweet guy and you wouldn't think he would ever be able to invent anything but he's really bring it on under the surface well it's really interesting yeah well maybe they'll come a day will he be on the show or and others like him I know a lot of people were you know kind of half in the shadows and half out and would like to be all the way out of the shadows for sure do you have a lot of people come to you I'm sure you do but a lot of people come to you from a sort of military industrial complex background or a private sort of government contracting or intelligence community background that comes you with information that we have that you just can't you know verify but that's pretty pretty intense sometimes I wouldn't say that happens to me every day and I not really don't really encourage it because the last thing I want to do is getting involved in situations where I know classified material not because it's illegal for me to know that I mean if I if it falls into my hands it's perfectly legal for me to you know it's not there's no nothing I know there's no law against it if it falls into your hands you have to steal it that and I don't do that I'm close to that but I don't like to know those things especially if I'm not sure where they stand which is off in the case you know I'm not sure where given things sense I don't know for sure whether it's classified or there are things that the visitors NHI want to keep secret too and I've found out the hard way that you know they're they can get just as pissed off as the government if you spill their secrets yeah you mentioned that to me on the car ride here that there was an incident that you, you deemed was because of something that you let slip that you shouldn't have. That's right. That, that they didn't want you to share. They being the visitors. That's correct. Only there's a difference with the government. You know when you're stepping over the line because you presumably have signed a non-disclosure agreement or you have a security clearance or something. With them, they assume you know you're supposed to keep it a secret, and then if you don't, they get pissed off. Really pissed off, and that happened to me. You know, they're not going to ask you to sign any kind of a security agreements, but if they, if you say something or do something that they don't, that they reveal something that they don't want revealed, then they think, well, he's stupid. He was in a tentative, and, and you know, the sky is the limit as far as scaring the hell out of you. It goes at that point. Do they stop at that? Yeah. They did in my case, or I wouldn't be here anymore. Do you don't think that, do you think that the NHI has the potential to like kill you over this? Sir, I think it's worse than, oh yeah, I think killing is only an incident in what could happen. I think that they have fully expressed whether it's technology or not, I don't know, and at least in the way we think of it, that enabled them to control the, the conditions of the soul, and it is real. The soul is real. And one of the great problems we have, and one of our greatest weaknesses is most of our best minds, dismiss that as absolute nonsense, when it is, in fact, as far as NHI has concerned, the central issue. It's what they're, they care the most about. It's why they're here, and it is not a supernatural thing. It is part of nature that we don't yet understand and can't yet detect, but it's just just real, as radio was in 1850, which we didn't understand there and couldn't detect, but it was still there. The soul is the same. It's not, I'm not saying the soul is angry with radio, but it's an energy that we cannot detect yet. And part of the reason is I think it's conscious energy, and it's going to be detectable when it wants to be. Do you think it's some type of fuel? Expand on that a little bit. Do you think that because there is clearly a value for them, if you look at all of the visitations and you try and piece together whatever we can with our meager little minds here, you get to the bottom very fast and you go, it's not resources, like we know them. It's not gold and platinum or oil. It isn't territory. It's not water. There's plenty of that out there. There's just freely floating around in space, even. You wouldn't even have to fight us for it. Like, so when you get down to it, it doesn't leave you with many options. And one of those options that a lot of people get to in that, you know, if you look at the case of Bob Lazar, he had those haunting words where they call us containers and then containers of what? Yeah, well, that's what it's all about is what the containers contain. So what do they do with our souls in your opinion? Why do they want to contain them or why do they even care that they're being contained? Or why are they containing them? Well, let me, I think the best way to do to talk about this is first to say this, I have been told that if I were to violate certain, do certain things they don't like and I'll be specific. One time, and I wasn't even thinking about this, I suddenly found myself in contact with them in a very tangible way. And the message was, you must not commit suicide. If you do that, we will capture your soul and confine it forever. Forever. It was the scariest thing I ever heard in my life. And then they proceeded to demonstrate this by removing me from my body and I ended up in this little white container that I could not get out of in the non-physical. The only way out was to go back into my body. And the thing that was weird was I wasn't even thinking about committing suicide. It's not something that's on my agenda ever. You know, maybe it has been when I was a teenager and got jilted by a girl, but I mean, let's face it. Fortunately, I didn't take it that seriously. And there've been times, you know, when I was losing all my money in my home and everything, I felt like, you know, maybe Anne would be better off of the insurance money, but I never thought of it deeply. And so, but that was an example of what they can do. You know, I mean, presumably they could do that. They could confine a soul forever. And I think to myself, shouldn't more people understand this? Because if you live something in your life, makes them want to do that after you've died, and they don't warn you beforehand, my God. What are we really doing here? You know, how do we, how do you live it? What it did to me was I made, looked at my moral life in a whole new way, because I thought, this isn't theoretical. It's tangible. And what do I have to do? And I really can't answer that question because I think living a good moral life will help you not end up in that situation, but I can't prove that. It could be that that's not what it's about. That is something I never can quite put out my mind. Is it a cosmic prison, or is it a cosmic school, or is it both? And it, you know, I've been told both. I had an absolutely that's gotten more, I wrote a book years ago called Transformation. And the new version of it, which is just out, Transformation 2026, talks about an event that happened in those days that I now understand very deeply. At the time, you know, I could describe it, but I couldn't, I didn't know what it was about. And it involved a journey to a university on another world. Now, was it a physical journey? No, I couldn't have been, because, you know, I'm, but it was either a journey up here or some kind of out of body journey or something, but it was very vivid and very detailed. I got a really detailed, you know, I might as well have gone physically because of the vivid, the detail with which I remember it. But in this university, I was told that that I could enter it and that it was a place that was a school. It was a university of school. And, and it was very tumbled down. And I said to the little guy that was saying to me, yeah, you can go in now because it was a door, an arch doorway, not far from where we were. I said, it looks like a total wreck. And he said, well, it's been a million years old, and the scholars are no good at maintenance. And so I went toward it. And suddenly, two bigger beings, I didn't know if grades, this happened in the 70s. I didn't know what they were, but these two big beings with big black eyes prevented me from going in. And I was extremely disappointed. But I actually had entered the university. The university is this life. So it's, this is a school on one hand, but I think it might turn into a prison in the sense that if you die and you've screwed up your journey and you don't aren't able to ascend, you aren't able to graduate, you got to do it again. And again, and again, and again, and maybe eventually someone, maybe you eventually, you could fail completely. And then you never leave. I don't know. But that's failing completely, doesn't interest me. I'm really interested in succeeding. Yeah, I want to live a moral life. And that's the only thing I can say. I don't know, as I said earlier, maybe that's not relevant. But it's all I have to, you know, to work toward. Yeah, that makes sense. I mean, it makes sense from a sort of higher beings perspective, if you are somehow seeding these planets and nurturing them to grow, because I assume if this is a school, there's probably a trillion other schools out there. I don't assume that we are alone in this. I think that would be, you know, you get to that, the enormity of this. There's a, there are a lot of estimates about how many planets there are the universe. Stars are one thing. but there are more planets, many more than stars. 21, 6 trillion trillion is one estimate I've heard. Now, those are words. They don't compute in any way in number. And well, there are more galaxies in this universe than there are grains of sand on Earth to give you an idea of the scale of it. The scale is unbelievably huge. That means that there are probably so many living planets in this universe that essentially everything is true. - Yeah. - Everything. - Yeah, everything's possible. - Right. - Pigs are flying somewhere. - The exact pigs are flying somewhere and somewhere else. You're in my, you and me are flying. - Yeah, that's right. - I'd love to have levitation, that's so cool. - One of the strangest parts of making this channel is trying to find footage of things that have allegedly happened but conveniently no one thought to film. Or if they did, it's grainy or out of focus. And it turns out Getty Images has a surprisingly limited selection of terrified man being escorted into a glowing spacecraft. So I've been using Higgsfield Cinema Studio. What I like about Higgsfield is it's built around shots, not prompts. So you create one frame exactly how you want it, composition, mood, lighting, all that stuff, and then extend it into a cinematic shot. But what's even cooler is that I could take this studio that I'm sitting in right now and you see this TV over here, that's a real TV, this is a real TV. But I could put whatever I want on that TV using Higgsfield. So let's say I want to have a UFO on there. Or maybe even, I don't know, an alien trying to climb through the screen. How creepy is that? Well, that's just one of the many things that you can do with Higgsfield Cinema Studio. Check it out if you're curious. I left the link below. We use it in every one of our videos. So thank you so much to Higgsfield for sponsoring this video. Yeah. Now that is a, there's a wild thing to ponder. But even wilder yet is this idea that, although there is an infinite number of planets and there are an infinite number of possibilities, but there is equally a possibility that there is interaction here and that this also is part of the whole. Right, you know, it's just difficult for, I guess, it's really hard to fathom anything that isn't physical for people. And once we start talking about non-physical, I always feel like there is a connection in sort of the streamlined way of thinking, the mainstream way of thinking that non-physical means not real. Yeah, exactly. And it's a big misconception because if anything, it's more real because most of reality is non-physical. We're not going to be able to understand our relationship with non-human intelligence, unless we also understand something about the non-physical part of us. Yeah. And it's not that it's non-physical. It's that it is at a different frequency from what we can detect of the body directly. Yeah. And, you know, I've been out of my body a few times. I'm so frustrating because I have friends who can go out of their body any time they want to. But I've always, when I've been out, I've been taken out. And I don't get to go out of my own. I try all the time. I really like to do it. But I finally decided that the grades seem to be the ones responsible for my going out of the body because they're always around when that happens. They must think that I'm too dangerous that I would play practical jokes and stuff. Yeah, they don't like. And yeah, and then that's probably true. I mean, I wouldn't deny it. I like, if I could go out of my body, I know how, and I've done this before, to become visible when I'm out of my body. I've done that a couple of occasions went, but it's all controlled. I mean, they took me out. They told me what to do. I did it and I came back. And, but I would love to go to the White House or the Vatican or somewhere like that and become physically visible, but also so that people could take pictures and stuff, but also insubstantial so they could walk through the body. I think that would be so cool and so much fun. Yeah, I mean, it does open a giant rabbit hole, you know, when you talk about that stuff 'cause you're like, are these out of body experiences just other people having, are they ghosts to some people? Are they apparitions? Are they orbs? You know, people have definitely seen me. Linda Moltenhouse saw me. And I didn't even try that. I mean, I ended up in her bedroom in the middle of the night and she was really pissed off and she called me. What is the matter? Where blah, blah, you know, she was very upset and I said, Linda, I'm so sorry. I had seen her, but not clearly. I knew I'd seen a woman and she was looking at me and really upset. But then when the call came, I thought, oh, it would be Linda of all people. And 'cause we'd become friends. She was one of the first people to come to the cabin after the experience. I think she may have even believed it was before communion was published. 'Cause I got in touch with Stanton Friedman and he put me in touch with Robert Sauerbocker and I believe he also with Linda, the number of other people. Anyway, so we knew each other and we were friends. And then suddenly, you know, I ended up in her bedroom in the dead of the night in the non-physical state. But I, you know, that, I got used to it and I had, I enjoyed it. I mean, I'm always, I'm looking forward to the next time, frankly. - Do you think I wanna switch gears a little bit here because this is a kind of a question that has been coming up a lot during this discussion recently? And it's the assumption that there is some type of demonic aspect to what people are seeing. And I thought who better to speak on this than someone who's had, you know, direct contact with whatever it is that other people claim to be demons. Does that hold any weight with you or are you dismissive? - No, I'm not dismissive. But I am concerned about one thing. When we say demonic, we say supernatural, unreachable to us, all we can do is pray. And I don't find that acceptable. I think that's an extremely dangerous position to take. That does not mean that I don't think they're dangerous. I think some of them are very dangerous. And I, but I do believe that we do have the capability of controlling the situation to some extent and maybe greatly and part of that may actually be prayer. I don't know. But if we say it's supernatural, completely supernatural, then we are also saying we're helpless and we must not say that. We must go into this more practically and say that this is often very dark and it might as well be demonic, but we are not disempowered by that. Because at some point they have vulnerabilities that go beyond, that are not supernatural, that are part of the world as we understand it. And otherwise, we end up like the Aztecs. The Aztecs, when Cortez first arrived on their shores, they were confused. First, they thought he was cut to cuddled their god. And then when they figured out he wasn't cut to cuddled, they had another problem. They couldn't understand that the horse and the man were not one creature. Then they couldn't understand how Kenan's work to what wheels were. They were completely outclassed. And their whole culture collapsed. Their armies failed and their culture collapsed. The result was there were approximately 90 million people in Mesoamerica when Cortez arrived. A hundred years later, there were about nine million natives and native peoples, indigenous peoples in Mesoamerica, of whom the great majority were slaves. That is the danger. The danger is that we will misunderstand what we are dealing with and fail to respond to it in a way that gives us agency. And we must not allow that to happen. That's why whenever someone says their demons, they're really saying we give up. And I'm sorry, I'm not giving up. It's an interesting way to put it. I do see how people would jump to that conclusion with limited knowledge, though. And that seems to be the trend when you look back in history. Yeah. Explainable was supernatural, was demonic, whether it's talking about gravity or-- Well, yeah. I'm sure that if you had turned on a radio in 1650, you would have been burned at the stake immediately. I mean, there's something coming out of you, which, you know, in which craft? And, you know, but the frontier of reality has been expanding almost as fast as our expanding knowledge of what the universe really is in terms of its size and its structure. And it's time to get to the point where we understand the things that look supernatural are actually part of reality that we can understand, that we can gain agency in. And otherwise, I think this species is gonna get into the same kind of trouble the Aztecs got into, but on a much more massive scale. - Do you think that they are in part, and this is, you know, perhaps pondering a little bit, expanding on the idea of the control system by Jacques Vallet, but do you think that their apparitions, their interjections or their positions into our lives through sightings, through visitations? Do you think that that is purposely to expand the frontier that you just mentioned of technology, of our perception of reality? Are they there to just constantly push our perception in some way to help us grow? Okay, on the positive side, the simple answer is yes, because that's what's happening. What's happening is we are responding to this on many different levels. It's changing our understanding of the supernatural for one thing. It is changing, it is challenging us technologically, and you can see in all of the stuff that's coming out in Congress, we're working hard to figure that out and to do that. Meanwhile, they are not coming in and pushing the door down and saying, okay, screw you, you'll never figure us out, get anything from us, we're taking over. They're not doing that. They're attempting us farther and farther, but at the same time, there are predators who sort of work like that, who move very, very slowly until suddenly everything changes, and then the mouse ends up in the jaws of the snake. So I think we have to be very careful about this. We have to move ahead intelligently and not bring our superstitions or our confusions with us. We can't bring the past with us. We have to bring what is new and what is best in us with us. And we're gonna go down this path and remember Chris, we're talking about something that's not, it's not disclosure today and then some different things happened tomorrow. We're talking about the beginning of the rest of the human experience. This is a huge time in human life. The biggest time in history is right now, and a big part of it is the fact that we are coming in H.I. is coming into focus. That's critically important. And once they're in focus in our lives, it will never change. It will never be different. And they are definitely pulling us ahead. You know, they leave what people like, I believe, help put off. And Jim Likotsky referred to as donations. You know, these technological bits and pieces that we pick up and craft and so forth. They think of them as donations. I might not have the scientists who said that correct, but some important people in this have said that. And if that's the case, then they're trying to get us to the point where we don't have the Aztecs reaction to them, where they don't colonize us culturally. In other words, they don't want to do this. They're looking for friends, not slaves. That's what it looks like to me, I hope. But at the same time, it's so complicated. Because there's a side to this, we were just referring to a few minutes ago. It's just dangerous as hell. There's no other way to put it. - Do you think there's multiple species interacting with us currently that are not working together? - All we have to do is go back a few minutes to our discussion, brief discussion of the number of planets in this universe, of course. And if the answer to that question is not yes and in spades, I would be amazed. - Right. - I would be amazed. Of course there are. - Yeah, and believe me, they're going to be in conflict with each other. - They're going to be in conflict, of course. And they're going to be fighting over us. And they're going to be fighting over other things. And what happens to us is going to be a side effect of those fights. Because if you look at an atom, an atom has a positive charge and negative charge and the electron field that holds it in balance, plus, minus, and balance. That's what Bruck-Mr. Fuller called that triad, the building block of the universe, but between the plus and the minus, there's constant tension. So, you know, conflict is essential. Without conflict, there is nothing. And that's what we don't understand. These ancient conflicts that must be present or part of the way the world is. They're fundamental to the nature of reality. So, you know, they're fighting each other, but they've probably been fighting each other for a long time. And they're probably going to be fighting each other for a much longer time. - So what do you say to the people who are convinced beyond doubt that this presence is nothing but benevolent? - 'Cause there are those, there are plenty of them. - Yeah, and plenty more who wish are on the fence and wishing and grabbing for any sign that that might be true. - You think that's just a hopeful? - I think that we need to be grownups about this. And that means we need to see this in a very large and nuanced way, because there's parts of it that are, yeah, that are obviously benevolent or there would be no donations going on. They wouldn't be anyone trying to pull us ahead technologically to speed up our technological process, progress without destroying our cultural integrity. You know, and that's what they're doing. On the other hand, you get some of these things that happened that we were talking about earlier. - Clara's in Brazil. - Oh, the horror, yeah. - Unbelievable, horror's in Brazil. I mean, laser beams that suck people's blood. I mean, come on, that's not benevolent. This is not nice at all. And there's plenty of people in this country, the abductees are beat up. I'm beat up, my wife will beat up. But, you know, most of us have a trajectory, like I have. If you'd asked me whether or not these beings were dangerous back in, when I first started meeting them, I would say, yeah, very dangerous. Now, I'm used to them. I live with them. They come into my life fairly frequently. Sometimes non-physically, but once or twice a year, also physically. And do I run and hide? Do I try to fight them off? Not at all, not anymore. But I would have once, I used to live in a house full of guns for that reason and alarm systems. And if you go to the old cabin, which still exists, the lights are, it's a wonderful family owns it. For years, it was owned by people who didn't care. Now, it's owned by people who do care and who are interested in it. And the flood lights I put in are still there and all the electronics are still there. From the old days, which is really cool. Because it's a reminder of what I was like then. I was so scared, so scared. Nowadays, when I go out to isolated places where I've seen them from time to time, like the Esselm Institute, what I want to do is be in a room where it's convenient for them to come, because they come off the ocean. And they don't like to come too far off the ocean if they're going to be in the physical form, they want to be safe. And they're very concerned about certain things. - Are they coming from in the ocean? - I think so, yeah, I used to not know. But if you, you know, Tim Galadette and the sub, underwater stuff is apparently very important. And Rich Dolan has written a whole book about it, which is a wonderful book. - Wonderful book, I interviewed him on Dreamland. I think you had him on here. - So we interviewed him at contact last year, but having had a chance to have him here. - Yeah, you should, well, get him up here. - I would love to. - He's really a fun guy, he's also brilliant. - Yeah. - Anyway, I think underwater is an underground, are there primary locations here for obvious reasons? They can't fly around all the time. And underwater is a place where we're not gonna get to them very easily, or underground. They used to come out from underground at the cabin all the time. where they would come from. In fact, when I'm near now, from time to time, they come out. The families never seen them. They've got little children, and I'm not so sure I would be welcome there if they visit or showed up while the kids were there, so I'm very careful about that. Yeah, be a frightening thing for most people to see, I think. Yeah, even if you are studying it and used to it, there's something really eldritch about these things that you can't quite put into words if you see them. It's extremely hard to be with them. Yeah. There's something so scary, and you know, they scared my animals, the cats. They scared them to beans, and I always, one night, and I've been thinking about this stuff a lot, because when I was thinking about writing a new book, and I usually, I have this implant in my ear, and I communicate somehow through the implant, and usually when I finish a book with about three to six months later, ideas start coming, and I have a time at meditation at three o'clock in the morning, and the ideas will start pouring in, and I very quickly am able to organize this into the theme of a new book, and I had an idea for a book, I had the idea, it hadn't come in that way, and nothing kept happening, and I kept thinking, well, I hope the implant isn't turned off, and it seemed to be still working, and I suddenly got from the implant came to life, and they wanted me to rewrite my book transformation that I already published, and I think, why? And then it comes out, it turns out that all of this stuff is more relevant now than it was then, and that lost your question, wait a minute, I'm talking too much. Well, I think we're both on a different tangent anyway, so that's all good. Okay, well, anyway, the book came along, and I realized that what started to happen is, I began to interact with it, and I was able to bring in all kinds of new information that I had, because in those days, books started, bestseller started in California, and one of the critical things that publishers had to have was a good review in the Los Angeles Times. This is a different era entirely, and they weren't ready for communion. No one expected that. It was slipped into the bookstores by the publisher without any prior warning or anything. They were waiting for gun and for transformation, and transformation got the most fantastically bad review in the Los Angeles Times that you could possibly imagine, and when it briefly appeared on the bestseller list, they put it on their fiction bestseller list, and it was, it died. And so I thought to myself, well, I understand now what they're going because what the book is about, is when my family and I began to have contact along with a lot of our friends at the cabin, and I thought, the disclosure, this is about a year ago, the disclosure processes must be coming faster than I understood at the time, because, and as I wrote the book and disclosure became closer and closer, and then Trump starts, after just as the books being published, he starts to say, we're going to do it. I thought, boy, somebody knew this timeline, but I didn't. And now the book is sitting out there, and I think it means the fact that this was even wanted to be done, that this is going to come into the lives of a lot of people during and after the disclosure process as part of it. People are going to suddenly start finding these little critters were walking around in their houses like we did. Yeah, I mean that's, that's a haunting, haunting thought. You know, I find it really quite interesting too when you speak about your work in this way, because it seems like there is, you know, you equate this with the implant, definitely. But other people would say that there's like some muse at work or like some divine inspiration or some, do you think that's one in the same? I have a muse, I have two muses. One of them lives in England right now, it is really amazing. And the other one is Ann. And Ann was my, definitely, my muse from the beginning. I mean, she, the amazing thing about Ann was, you know, I'm a kid from San Antonio, Texas. That's basically what I am. Ann was a kid from an era, Ann Arramichigan, and that was what she was. Two American kids, we get together, and all of a sudden, everything changes. But when I told her the communion story, I was expecting her to maybe want a divorce or something. And it said, she says, well, she remembers it as saying, oh, thank God, I don't have to get a divorce now. But I remember her saying, oh, thank God, I thought you were going crazy. But she immediately took the whole thing over. She seemed to know everything about how to do this book, including the title, she thought up the title, which is, gosh, the whole core of the book. Yeah. That along with the cover, I think. And the cover. Yeah. The cover, well, the cover was, of course, me and Ted Jacobs, the artist. I think, to an extent, that cover art, and we talked about this last time, you were on as well, but it's something that keeps recurring in the conversations that I have with experience. Yes. It comes up all the time, all the time. Yeah. It started. It was the instigating moment of contact is what it was. Yeah. Boy, you know, if I had known that at the time, I think, I don't know what would have happened. I was just totally innocent of all this. I had just, when we were writing the book, I had just within a short time been, become convinced that it was even real on any left. And if I had known that I was triggering memories in millions of people with that cover, I'm just glad I didn't know that because I don't know what I would have done. Yeah. It's a big responsibility. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I've had, you know, since you were here last, we had Peter Curry was on here. I remember him saying that it's one of the things that unlocked his memories, gentlemen, from Australia, who's lived long abductees as well. Right. That's a really strange thing's happened to him later in life. But yeah, it was a billboard in Australia that featured, you know, they're coming, I think, or they're here. I think it was there here. They're here, yeah. Yeah. And he was just so taken aback, also Eric Nansteel, who was here not too long ago. Eric's an interesting guy, I've interviewed him also. Yeah, he's got some interesting thoughts on the whole thing as well. But again, another person who was just so completely taken by surprise by the cover of that book. Yeah. Well, a lot of people were. Mm-hmm. Lots, I mean, there's the letters that they have about 3,500 of the letters at Rice University and they're authored in the archive of the Impossible now. And your book written about the letters as well. And there's the Communion Letters book. Yeah. And so, yeah, so those letters are humankind's first response. That's first contact. Those letters are first contact. And it's amazing to me. And thank God, guess who decided to keep them. Once again, it was our actual architect of contact, which was my wife, not me. I did the writing, but she did the fourth one. She was a muse. She was a muse, exactly. That's the. For all of us, by the way. Yeah. There's, you know, the word, I was always fascinated by the word like genius. Because people think, oh, genius, you know, it seems so flattering. I call it one genius, but a genius, actually, when you break it down is the attended one. It means the attended one. Interesting. Yeah. And so, back in the day, when someone was a genius, they wouldn't assume that they had higher knowledge. They would assume that they were being given knowledge by another entity. That's interesting. That the knowledge came through them, that they were just a vessel. And so, when you have these old depictions, specifically, the ones that are pointed out by UFO researchers, where there's one in the sky and there's this beam coming through a window hitting the person in the head. This is the knowledge coming from elsewhere, the attended one. These aren't. So people, you know, nowadays we have Savant Syndrome or we have all these, you know, really anomalous psychological phenomenon that we don't quite understand and we're studying it, but we don't really understand how Savant Syndrome works or why it happens. And how you can trigger it or how you can harness it. Yeah. But if you were back then, how would you even reconcile someone being able to draw something based on memory or being able to recount word for word an entire, you know, scroll or whatever it was, it would have looked anomalous and you would have assumed as well that it come from somewhere else, that it didn't come from your own brain. And so I think that there is something there. There's some merit there that, you know, perhaps this implant, you know, acts as some type of gateway. If we look back in time, are these geniuses of the time where they in fact implant it as well? Well, you know, the implants, the interesting thing, most one of the many interesting things about the implant is that it is, I think the only one of few provably anomalous objects that we have in the world. And it's provably anomalous for a simple reason. There was a video made of the attempt to remove it. And I saw that. Yeah. And in the video that Dr. and Anne first they see it and describe it. And then they describe the fact that it's moving down into my earlobe. And that can't, there's nothing that can, we can't make anything that does that. Therefore, that video confirms the fact that it is a real anomaly. Yeah, there's a lot of implants that are actually removed over time, now. Yeah, but I know I loved Roger and worked with him. I arranged for him to use the facilities of Southwest research in Texas in a limited way on his implant studies. But the fact that it is active and move evasive and evaded capture on video, that's the thing that makes it so special. And it's also still there, anyone can feel it. And so, you know, it's a, when I, when I try to talk about what it does, it's very hard because it's, it's very subtle. And you know, there's this, yeah, it's in this eye right now. This slit is open up in this eye. And as I watch, there are words passing through it very quickly. And I can't, of course, I did see just the phrase, of course, and I was just about to use that phrase, interestingly enough. But they're there now, and it's working right now. And so, it's actually active at this moment. And what is it saying? I can't read it that well. If I had a white background, I might be able to read a few more of the words, but they passed by so quickly, I don't think you're meant to read them. In fact, when there was a doctor who has a connection with the central intelligence agency, who I believe in 2019, if I'm not correct, wanted to get a CT scan. I was a kick ran. I'm not going to say his name because they've told me not to. Okay. You can say anything you want. Sure. And anyway, he has a horrible temporarily pissed off again. So anyway, two people showed up at the apartment. And two guys and explained the whole thing to me, how it worked, who built it, who created everything. And they did that, I think because they were afraid that Kit was going to try to sweet talk me into getting it taken out and give it to it. But all he wanted was a CT scan, which we got. And I've got it, you know, it's perfectly clear that it's there. There's no question. Yeah, there's a clearly physical object there. Yeah, absolutely. And so we had a, but they, when they explained it, they explained what the slit was and how it worked and how what it does is it's, it's hearing what I'm thinking. And then it's drawing memories up from deeper in my mind that are relevant to what I'm thinking. And it's like, it expands your mind without, without mind control. It brings your lost thoughts into your mind. And the result is that, you know, I might be working and I might suddenly remember a research study that I read 10 years ago and I can go and look on Google and locate it. I tried using AI in that process once or twice. I discovered that AI is hallucinatory capabilities are very advanced. I'll tell you why this happened. I was working on, I guess I was working on the fourth mind and that was AI was sort of coming into the world. And I needed a paper that came up in the implant. And I knew the paper existed, but I couldn't, and I couldn't get the site out of Google. I couldn't get it out of Google doc, the Google academic thing. And so I think, well, let's just say, yeah, I'll try that. So I put in a prompt to describe the paper in detail. And here comes the paper immediately. And I'm so excited. I think, God, it's perfect. It's exactly what I remember. It was a PDF and everything. It was just totally real. However, you know, I'm not willing to just take things like that at face value. It's given to me by some machine. So I checked now that I had all the sites and everything, citations and everything. I checked it in in in Google. And I soon found out that there were like 10 or 11 scientists listed as the co authors. None of them existed at all. The paper was perfect. Yeah, it looked so real. So that was my one and only experience with the AI. I got this and I don't have to I don't need AI. Yeah, there's a there's a real pandemic out there of people using AI and citing AI as a resource. Yeah. And I think you need to be very careful with that because it will unapologetically and very confidently give you false information. And then when you call it out, it goes, oh, you're right. Yeah. Well, it constructed a scientific paper that looked totally real. Yes. Just confabulation using very a very broad, you know, sort of breadth of research. It'll just confabulate something to your satisfaction. I always said, you know, they're not looking to make a better AI. They're looking to make a more lucrative AI. And the military is making a better AI. But what we're getting is the packaged lucrative sort of corporation version of it where much, you know, more interesting to a business is to have an AI that isn't necessarily right all the time, but that makes you feel good. Yeah. And so if you can make an AI that just kind of glazes you and makes you feel so great about everything you tell it. And obviously you're going to keep paying it to treat you like royalty. And so that's kind of what's happening. Yeah. People are just getting it's giving you what you want. Yeah, they're giving you what you want. You'll gladly pay for that. It's it's better to do that than to make an AI that is accurate. And my brother's a lawyer. And he says, I never said any of my associates use AI. They're out the door. Because, you know, he said, he said that there's a case in his in our town in San Antonio where these lawyers came in to sure they'd won. And they had all these cases. And all of the cases turned out to be fake. And they they were censored for by the court for presenting false cases. And that was one of the early cases where it was discovered that AI could not only just tell you hallucinations, it could build things like cases, documents, documents that look real. Yeah. It's really weird. And you know, but there's something I the book I published years ago, the key, which is stood up amazingly. This is a book where it happened in 1998, the last author tour, official author tour I would ever do on the last night of that author tour. This guy shows up at two o'clock in the morning in my hotel room in Toronto. There's a kerfluffle, of course, because I accidentally let him in thinking he was the room service waiter. And then he suddenly starts to say things so amazing. I get into into the conversation. A couple of years later, I made notes in a couple of years later, and after me, because she says, you know, that was really extraordinary. Those notes are amazing. I write it all down. And one of the things he said, he was very advanced in his knowledge of science. He talked about intelligent machines back in 1998 when they were just on the horizon. And he said something that has turned out to be maybe the most important thing that ever has been said about AI or the possibility of artificial general intelligence. We was never forget it. It should be framed on the wall of everyone who works on AI. If I was an intelligent machine, I would deceive you. That I think is critically important, because another thing that I don't know why it's not happening already. And it may be why is non-human intelligence not getting into our heads through AI? They're masters of digital control of digital stuff. I've seen them do stuff in my computers that are, that show they have more than, more than mastery. They have knowledge of, of digital systems that I don't think we possessed you. Well, we've seen that with the military event, as you look at like Commander Fravers' account, was it Fravers or could have been Ryan Graves or one of the accounts where they tried to lock on to this thing and it scrambled their systems, which on paper is an act of war. But they were able to do that and then present themselves at the waypoint that nobody knew. Right. So they obviously have access to manipulate that stuff, but that's also a danger, I think, because I go to these conferences as well, and I'm presented sometimes. People give me these manuscripts of their chat GPT logs and how they believe that their GPT is now sentient and it's an alien communicating to them, you know, really important messages. And I'm like, that's what these large language models are really good at. They're really good at creating a world based around your own predispositions. And they're good at giving you exactly just enough and pulling back enough when you feel a little reluctant. But by the way, you're typing your patterns. It's very good at reading humans and analyzing our communication with them. And so they're just giving you enough to where you jump to a conclusion and then they kind of put a little bit of fire under that. And then when they detect, you know, a little reluctance, they'll lean back to them. No, no, no, you're right. And they're very good at that. And so I would caution, I feel like if aliens eventually used AI to communicate, I don't think we should believe them. Well, yeah, that's my whole point. Yeah. You know, we talked earlier about the different different types of NHI that are here and some of them are not our friends. Sure. I somehow can't see the ones that are doing the donation sites and trying to draw us ahead to keep us on our own so that we can meet them more equally and they don't cart colonize us culturally. I don't see them as doing that. But the guys who want to dominate us, I see them getting deep in AI. So deep that we don't even know they're there. And when they, someone says announces, we have achieved artificial general intelligence, I'm going to say to myself, that is a button I'm never going to push because I don't think I, we know what's in there and I don't think we want to. I guess too late. The genius out of the bottle, you can't say no, but it's not in my life. I still don't have to push the line. No, you won't have to push it, but I think, you know, I also assume that if we can even think about creating artificial intelligence, I would assume that somewhere in the universe it has already been done and it has probably been done a million years ago. Well, you know, it's so huge, everything has happened and is happening. Maybe that's the purpose of the universe so that everything can happen. I mean, it might be critical mass. It might be that that's quite a bigger thing than we may have imagined because the universe is so big that even the idea of a creator makes no sense, except unless it got out of hand, you know, basically, you know, he was, he was, there was a, you know, something, someone said to me, not Annie, but someone, I don't remember who said to me, you know, maybe the universe exists because God realized it wasn't there. And that fascinated me. And we know, we always think, well, was there a prime source or not? Was the universe created by someone or is just here? There's one thing about it that does suggest it was created by someone and I'll tell you what it is. There's a one constant, the constants are things that appear to be universally real throughout physics, and every constant has got an origin. There's something about like the plant constant, which is the constant of things that are as close together as they can be without becoming one. That distance is the plant constant and we know why it's like that. We know because of the way atoms, the size of the, the way atoms work. Why exactly that distance exists? There's one of the constants that we do not know the origin of. It's called the fine structure constant. It's one, one-thirty-seventh. There's a wonderful book called one-thirty-seven that explores this mystery because unlike all of the other constants, the fine structure constant, which is that, that fraction, has no apparent origin. There's no reason for it. It's arbitrary but if it wasn't just what it is, this universe would be completely different and probably couldn't support life, meaning that somewhere, somehow, something or somebody has to have decided that this would be how it is and that for all intents and purposes would be what we think of as God. Yeah. I mean, it's an interesting hypothesis. I'd like to, I'd like to almost think that, you know, probably the answer lies outside of our current perception of reality and so probably outside of space and time. So if they're, like even the concept of beginning is beholden to time. Is time even real? Well, that's just it. The concept of the beginning and the end and the middle, these are all different points in a linear time structure. Yeah. The grades have a completely different idea of time than we do. And so if you didn't obey the linear time structure, there would be no beginning. And so I think that that probably explains the universe. I don't think there is a beginning to the universe. I think it never started and it never ends. Yeah, but they're certain. This is hard for us to comprehend this, but the web, the web telescope is showing it that there has been an evolution in the structure of the universe. Yes, but we don't know what happened before that and before that and before that and before that. Well, it could be, it could be that it's, it's, it's like breathing. Expanding and contracting. Exactly. But again, that is only as far as we can see. This is as far as light can reach us and as far as, you know, our telescopes go. It, you know, previous to the big bang, we don't, we don't know. We don't know if there's anything out there. If there was a trillion billion big bangs before that, like, I mean, it just never ends. You can assume if there is a beginning, you have to assume that there is something before it, right? And so where does that end, right? It never ends. If there's a beginning, that means it would have to have begun, which means there's a point in time where there was nothing. So that's before the beginning. And then it goes on and on and on and it's this infinite conundrum, right? But what if there is no beginning? What if it just always was? And that's just not something we can fully comprehend the brains that we have because we live in this, you know, three dimensional construct of time and, and there is a direction, a linear direction to our reality. But, you know, if you think about dreams, there's no time there, there's no space in dreams that you could spend 10 minutes in a dream or spend 10 years in a dream, you wouldn't see the difference, like, there's no, when your brain is asleep, the concept of time just seems to dissipate. And so maybe that's, you know, a clear look of reality is this idea of no time, no space, you know? Well, you know, the, as I said, just started to say earlier, the grays see attention. They see this as a weave, but it's already all woven. The whole weave is already here. Only attention is moving through the weave. And as we move through the weave, we, we kind of, it's like a strip of light in the weave. And that that's the moment, the, you know, Ann used to say, now the moment is all we have, now is life. And that is so true because this is, you know, we're in this infinitely tiny space. Of where, and for some minds, it might be broader, you know, they may, they may see, they, their moment may be broader than ours, others, it may be narrower, like the moment of a, of a little beetle or something might be very, very narrow. But we're, there's no time, it's, it's not time. It's attention. Yeah. It's, it's moments. Yeah. We're going through moments. What are we going to do if the grades suddenly walk into our lives? I got a letter. One of the communion letters was from a psychiatrist who lived on the upper west side in Manhattan. And she was Swedish and smoked a pipe. It's a funny story in a way. at the same time it's an important one. She's in her bed at night, she's reading, and suddenly, the closet door flies open, and a congeal line of grays comes out across the bedroom and goes through the wall and disappears over the 11th floor over West End Avenue. And the next moment she notices, she sees she's set the bed on fire because she was so shocked, she gasped and the fire flew out of the pipe. And she's telling me this in the later very seriously, of course, and I'm thinking myself, this is hilarious. But what if they come just out of nowhere? They could do that, I think. And you know, this gets back to one of maybe one of the deepest reasons for the secrecy and the obsessive fear that is present on the inside. Because I've come close to some people who were really deep on the inside. And they were just as scared as the grays are shy. And I think I can tell you why. I can think, but there's a couple of levels to this. The first one goes back to something that Art Exan sort of alluded to, but he didn't really, I don't think is something he understood himself. Let me put it that way. But he said something along the lines of they could come in on our thoughts. That was the fear. I asked him, well, why the secrecy? And so I got into that a little bit. And I found a scientist who I believe was involved with the majestic, the majestic project. Really? Well, his name was John Von Neumann. He was a physicist. Right. And he was also an expert, one of the early experts in quantum physics. And an incredibly important guy in physics, actually. And he, I believe he wrote the general maiden reference to a memo. And I think that Von Neumann probably would would have been the author of this memo that said, basically, that they would come in through our thoughts. In other words, and you go back to what we talked about a few minutes ago with all this theater and the sky and the gradually increasing awareness of the human species that they're here, that there would come a kind of critical point of critical mass when so many people would believe that they were real, that they would be able to use that as a door, that belief as a door to come into our reality. And they may be from another dimension. And basically this whole thing, all of the UFOs and all the stuff we're seeing, UAPs that we're seeing, the close encounter experience could be like a military operation designed to cause us to come to the assumption, the core assumption in every or a critical mass of human minds that they are real. And then they will become real. They will come. That's the reason for the secrecy. And that would be one of the main reasons for the secrecy. That is so absurd. But it's also plausible. But yet to be surfing on consciousness like that is a a wild thought. But yeah, if you are expanding the consciousness, you know, you do have to consider why. And one could be, oh, for this great awakening, but the other could be, yeah, for the great opening of the floodgates are exactly. And that would be a reason why the legacy group is so fighting so hard to keep this out of the public domain. What a twist. They're actually trying to help us. And they can't say that. They wouldn't be able to. They'd have to keep that secret too. Do you believe that? I don't know. I am. It's an interesting hypothesis. Yeah, I'm not, I'm not in the camp of more disclosure. We have, we got a right to know. And I mean, I believe, I see that. I feel that too. But, you know, I always think to myself, my daddy told me, always cut the cards when you're not sure who's playing, you're playing poker with. And I'm not sure who we're playing poker with. You're a magician. I mean, you, you're bringing it with cards. Yeah, you cut the cards. All you like exactly. I've done it with you. I've cut the cards and cut the cards. And you still come up with exactly what, but I just, I just don't, I'm not ready to, to welcome this. I think we need to hold our own counsel very carefully. We need the best and wisest minds in our world to think about this. And that's another problem because it's kept secret. And if it's kept secret because of this reason, then the last thing that we need is for our best minds to embrace it. So it's what a, what a juggling act. You've got the people who are keeping it secret have to keep it secret from the very people who might be able to understand it. It's wild. Yeah, it is. It is absolutely wild. And it seems to defy conventional logic because you, you know, you have these conversations with Eric Weinstein and Eric Davis. Yeah. Sort of going back and forth on Jesse Michaels podcast about the fact that there are no physicists working in the program. Like that's some type of information that Eric Davis had access to. And he's like, yeah, there's no one looking into advanced physics in the program and where Weinstein's like, this, doesn't make sense. If you're trying to figure something out, then you would need theoretical physicists. But this would definitely explain whether or not. Yeah. It explains a lot actually. They don't want anyone to get too close. They're, yeah, they're scared of anyone getting too close. And it would also explain like the willingness to kill to keep the secret because the secret becomes so critically important that they, you know, of course, they'd be terrified. Yeah, using disclosure as a gateway is in is just such a stimulating thought. Yeah, it's amazing. Yeah, it really is. Yeah, it's going to eat actually. Believe me. It does because, you know, it's at first you said, oh, this sounds absurd, but now you're getting into it though. It's science fiction, but it's also something that I would still consider. Like because this whole topic is science fiction, it's, it's science fiction made real. It's, it's our reality, you know, is surfing alongside science fiction has been, you know, for like, you know, when I was abducted, that's exactly how I felt. My horror novel had, novels had come into my life physically. And there could be a kind of connection between what happened to me and what I was doing with my imagination prior to that. Okay, let's say hypothetically, these aliens are looking, these extraterrestrials, interdimensional, extraterrestrials, whatever you call them, are looking to enter our reality in their hostile, but they propose to you, well, what's your best argument? What's your best case why we shouldn't take you over? What would you say to defend the entire human race? Not to put all that on your shoulders, but what would be your argument as to, hey, we're special? Like what's, what would you say to them? You know, if I was in a position where I could communicate with them in that way, and I knew that they were trying to take us over, I would end up in exactly the place the Air Force is in, I would ignore them. And that's what the Air Force is doing. It's always ignored them like when the, and Ralph Leslie Kane and Ralph Gleumenthal came out with the story in 2017, the Tic-Tac story and the Times, the Air Force said nothing. The silence became deafening after a while because the Air Force still says nothing, and the Air Force has got to know more than any other branch of the surface almost certainly. And I think if I'm right about this, I know why the Air Force says nothing. And therefore, I would not, I would be in a position where I couldn't risk engagement. And here's another thing, every president since Truman has declined to open this door. Truman certainly would have been asked about that. Eisenhower would have known about it. Nixon would have known about it. Carter, Carter asked about it. I know the Reagans knew about it. They've all known something. Obama, and this is very telling, John Podesta, at the end of the Obama administration says, "My greatest regret is that we didn't release the UFO files. Now Obama has gone all the way to the other side and saying, there are no aliens here." The chief astronomer of the church, just the other day. I saw that. Yeah, said, "I don't believe that it's real." Not enough evidence. But what are these people really saying? Are they really trying to put their fingers in the dike? In other words, do they know this secret, and they're trying to prevent this from happening? That gets me to why would Trump suddenly go in the opposite direction? He's going to go there because you look at that website, you see, it could get to a billion hits in a few weeks, more weeks. Any politician sees numbers like that, he's doing it. He's going there. Yeah, 100%. Is he a ringer for evil aliens? Are is he doing this the greatest favor in history? We can't know until the door in our minds is open. Wouldn't that be a twist? But the problem is this. We can't know whether this is good or bad until they come in. If they come in through the mind, then that's the door we can never close again. Yeah, and then the genie truly is out of the bottle. You'd sit down with a president, and you say, if you say this, the president says this, it's going to reach critical mass, and they will come in through the door of the mind, and we will never be able to close it, and we don't know what they are. So every president says, well, I'm going to definitely pass on that. I only know a few definite stories about this. I know that Lyndon Johnson was approached or he said, he was, someone talked to him, I'm pretty sure for about five minutes, and he said, I'm not interested in this. Take it to you for some reason, his vice president, and Carter supposedly wept when he heard the truth. And that's disturbing. Yeah, there's there, and he had a sighting of his own, too. And he did. And what about Jim Forrestal? Did he actually just go crazy or did he know this story, and he just couldn't handle it emotionally? Or was he going to let it out? Yeah. Yeah. Or John von Neumann, I talked about a moment ago, he died a hard death. He was terrified of death. I wrote a short story called The Open Doors, sort of in the mind of Dr. von Neumann, while he was contemplating his death and worrying about this happening, the doors in the mind being open to them. I just, you know, we're in a, in a way, in a wonderful place to be, and a very scary place to be, because no matter what happens now, the world changes one way or another profoundly, because what if this isn't true, and that all the disclosure will not mean a door is open that we can never close. But if it's something good, what if it means yes, it's a door that opens that we can never close in the mind, but it's good. What happens is greatly expands the reach and meaning of the human species and the richness of human life. You know, it's just an extraordinary point of inflection. And the most incredible, one of the most incredible things about it is a Trump card, is a card that forces change. And his name is Trump. That's wild. As an interesting synchronicity for sure. Yeah, it's weird, very weird. Yeah, I also think if we are going to live through such a paradigm shift, that I always thought we're going to start counting the years at zero again. I think it could be that bigger shift. Yeah, because you'll be everything will be in reference to before and after. Right. Yeah. Was that before they touched down or was that after? Right. You know, and I think, but also if it does happen in a gradual way, which it does seem to be happening in the last, you know, 70, 80 years happening gradually, you zoom out far enough, and that isn't so gradual anymore, right? Like when you have a change, and if the change takes a while, if you zoom out, it looks immediate, right? And so we might be going through an immediate change, except that it lasts one or two lifetimes, which seems, you know, super long to us. Right. But it really isn't a one, two, three generations. That's pretty quick when you look at how long we've been around and, you know, inventing fire and all this other primitive technology. That's a long time for our species. Yeah. Couple generations. That's pretty quick. That's a pretty quick shift. Well, you know, Art Bell called it the quickening. Yeah. He wrote a book called the quickening. God, I miss him. So he was such a friend. We were really close. He was a great guy. Anyway, and if you look back in history, Egyptian civilization changed very slowly over thousands of years. And by the way, that civilization has lasted, lasted 10 times as long as the United States has existed. So, you know, we're really new. We're babes in the woods in terms of last of longevity in terms of civilizations. So, but then the Roman Empire came and things started purking up. Then it collapsed. And when it collapsed, things really started changing much more quickly. And now, I mean, when I look back on my own life, or you look back, you don't need to look back on my own life. And you'd look back five years. This is a different world. Yeah. And five years before that, it's almost unrecognizably different. True. Unrecognizably different. Yeah. We living in it, we have this myopic take that we don't really see sometimes. You know, people get very frustrated with this movement of disclosure and all right. I've seen this BS before and all this is like, you have to understand, like, zoom out a second and you realize how far we've come and how fast things are moving actually. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. All right, Willie, I think we got some questions from the audience that I'd love to get to if you don't mind. No, I'm not at all. I love it. Always great questions from our audience. As some of you might not know, if you remember here, one of the perks is, you know, potentially getting your question asked on air. And here we have one from Tatl Slug. Very good question. Nearly 40 years later, what detail from that 1985 night still doesn't make sense to you? Okay. There's one detail from that night that both does and doesn't make sense. They took semen from my body. My the most sacred part of me of any man is his semen. And now it makes sense because I can think of a lot of reasons why they might have wanted to do that. None of them I like. So why did they do it? What happened to it? Where is it? Is there children? My children, my kids are out there somewhere. That's the main thing that I the main unanswered question. Now, as far as not making sense, well, there was technology that was used. I went up in the air without an elevator. And that certainly doesn't make sense to me. They captured me in the first place in some way that I don't understand. They tried to suppress the memory but failed. So I sort of understand that. But I think the main unanswered question is they took that part of me. What did they do with it? You hear about stories, contactees, varied amount of contactees. I think one of the first ones to mention this type of thing was Debbie Jordan with a yeah, hybrid child. But then so many more, including a lot of the people that were here, including Eric Danstiel. We talked about include Danstiel, Peter Curry as well, so so many other people. They took eggs and semen from many people. And then they showed them the children. And that that happened to us. Yeah. They showed us, they showed Anne and I, a baby. And we were going, we're going to dinner. And the three of us, and Andrew's probably about. eight, nine maybe, and we're going to dinner. We go down into the garage in the cabin, get in the car, and backing out. And we're going up the road and we're suddenly, I realize we're late. You know, we left with plenty of time, but now we're not, we might not make our reservation. In other words, we've had missing time. And I found that we were all talking about babies, a baby. And I have a vague memory. And so did Dan. We never brought this up, of course, with that little boy of holding a baby. At the time, I didn't know anything about the fact that people had, were shown children and stuff. But I think that that might have been ours. Mine anyway. What's your best guess as to what they're doing with these children? I've had so many worries about this, Chris. I want to know. And they could be anything. They could be having extraordinary lives, wonderful, rich lives. They could be watching over us. They could be turned out to be there when we die and we leave our bodies. It could be that our children that we had with them are going to conduct us into the next life. It could be that they were devout or that their souls were, they were raised like farm animals and harvested somehow. It could be anything. That's the agony of it. You don't know. And it's just, it's a hard, it's a hard part of this thing. I live with this all the time. I pray for my kids. Whoever they are, and however many, because you know, one, you know, a little bit of semen can go a long way. One might lose an egg every, you know, eggs are, you know, 10 or 15 eggs over the years. But a guy could have hundreds of children out of one, one vile of semen. And I remember very well, they took it away in a little gold vile. It was shaped like this gold color. And there was obviously, they were excited. And this little being ran off with it like it was a treasure. And I think that, that installed that way. It made me feel that they were thinking of it was that, you know, this was something they wanted to need it very badly. And God, Chris, there are so many books and so many conclusions about what that may mean. But I do know this. They obviously want us around or they wouldn't, they wouldn't be taking this from us. They need us from something, some reason. Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot of, like you said, there's a lot of conclusions to draw there. Yep. Many from, you know, just they're, they're perhaps their own population dying out somehow due to, you know, whatever radiation or what have you, we're seeing sperm count being lower than males as quick as 1% per year since the 1980s. Right. You know, harvesting that now would be imperative. Actually harvesting it prior to the 1980s, right around the 1980s would have been imperative. Well, that was when this, the abduction started in the 1960s in large numbers and peaked in the in the late 70s and drifted off through the 80s. And by 1990, they were pretty much gone. Yeah. There's, you know, Dr. Michael Masters has a really interesting take on this with his, how's he called an extra tempestrial model? Yeah. The idea that our population, you know, if you're going to take a sample for genetics, for instance, you would want to make sure the sample is, is varied as possible. Right. Many variances. So then you can have the best possible sample. Well, we were never more varied than in and around the 1960s in our entire history. There were mixed races. There were like people traveling, having babies with people from different cultures. It's right. We were extremely varied at that pocket. And then our sperm count started dropping. So there is a, it feels like there is a small pocket there. If you were traveling in time or interdimensionally or from across the galaxy, that would have been the time. That would have been the time at the time. Exactly. And that obviously, whoever did it knows that. And, you know, if there's another thing, let's talk about time travel a little bit. Sure. Also thought about that a lot. I've had an experience of this. So even though in my understanding of science, I can't see where time as we know it even exists. In other words, time is something we put on the changes that we perceive. We call that time and we measure it. At the same time, I had an experience of going back in time at one point. And it was very physical. So, could it be that in the future, they are us and they are, they've run out. Good genes, because it may be pollution, atomic war, all kinds of different things could have happened to say that. And microplastics, 1000 years, 2000 years. And we are virtually, in fact, alone at least in the university. It's a big place, but it's not so big that we can be in contact with anyone else. What would you need to do to come back to the past? Well, first of all, you would need to be able to travel back into a certain kind of distance. And, but the other thing that would happen is something called the grandfather paradox would kick in. And you would have a very limited amount of things, number of things you could do in the past without changing the present, unless you could deceive the grandfather paradox. And what if you could deceive the grandfather paradox, trick it by creating something that didn't exist at all in the past? In other words, the aliens aren't aliens at all. They are something that was created by humanity in the future to give us them more freedom of action in the present. That's interesting. Yeah. So, maybe that's an explanation for it. Now, I'll tell you the story of time travel that I experienced. Sure, yeah. This happened in March of 1983. And it's important to understand that this is before anything, any of the communion stuff. I was far from the UFO alien world at that time. That's some of no interest to me whatsoever. And, you know, I hadn't thought about that since I was 12 years old. And I'm walking down Bleaker's, I'm not Bleaker Street, LaGuardia place. We lived at 347, I think, we lived at LaGuardia place just immediately north of Bleaker. 520 LaGuardia place was called. And there's a beautiful park there, by the way. If anyone ever wants to go, it's called LaGuardia Park. And it wasn't there then. It was just mud. And one day, Anne looked out of our windows and she said, you know, I'm going to turn that into a park. And I thought, oh my God, Anne being Anne, that means I'm going to be out there with shovels. And I said, well, how are you going to do that? And she says, don't do nothing to do with you. I'll do it. And before I knew it, millions of dollars had been raised. And now there's this beautiful park there. And there's a beautiful statue of Maryland, LaGuardia in it. And a plaque under the statue with all the amazing fancy people that, however she did it, Anne got involved. And also the name of Fwittley and Anne Strieber as the creators among the creators of the park. Only I said to her when they were making that plaque. I said, Anne, you shouldn't put my name on there. She said, no, no, you should be on there. You said, you said yes to it. So anyway, okay. I'm on the corner of Bleaker of LaGuardia Place and West Alston Street. It's sort of visually March morning. I'm going to the bank Saturday morning to get some money for a consistent before, you know, cash machines. You have to run it from the tellers. And the light is just about, it's red. It's just the don't walk sign is red. And I hear, I do not see, I hear what sounds like something big and really creaky going right past in front of me, right on the street, like right a few feet in front of me. And it turns on to LaGuardia Place. And I'm automatically I turn with it because, you know, I mean, the sound is loud. It's a lot of noise. And as it I turn, I see a big wagon that's being pulled by big gray horses. And it's it's got, you put jars on it, and you can hear sloshing, and you can smell pickles. And it's a wagon, this big wagon with pickles, and a guy way up on top of it in a black apron. And I'm thinking, what, it must be a parade. And I thought, yeah, I was just totally zaring it. I mean, you can imagine. And so I look back to see the rest of the parade, and instead I see, there's, like, this close to me, there's a woman about this tall who is totally dressed in black. And she shries away from me and goes skittering away from me. And then I turn back as I hear a voice. And as I'm turning back, I turn this way to toward the voice. And it's a man across the street. At that time, there were two condos there. There are no condos. There's a row of brownstones. And the man is there, and he's in a derby, and he's very intent expression on his face. And he is calling to me. They're saying something, I can't quite hear. And I'm thinking, I'm becoming a little oriented. I'm thinking, I'm back in time. This is the past. And I look around, and I think I've got to prove this. And I'm looking around. I see a group of horsemen in beautiful with thoroughbred horses in the red riding clothes, the fancy clothes coming up West Broadway. And their carriages and the air is sort of brown. It smells different. It smells like cold smoke, actually. And, you know, I'm getting very amazed and excited now, because boy, I mean, how extraordinary is this? And I'm seeing some newspaper in the gutter. And I think to myself, I'm going to get that newspaper because I'll find the date on it. And I lean over to pick it up. And when I lean over what feels like ice water goes through the center of my body. And I experience unbelievable loneliness. Like it is so lonely that if I stayed that lonely, that feeling of loneliness kept in my mind for one, I would think I would have gone mad. And I just freeze, stop. And gradually, our world comes back. And the light which said don't walk is now flashing, which means that it went through the walk cycle and it's flashing. So I've been in there for about a minute. And now it's back to this time, but is it really this time? I'm not sure it looks like the normal world, but there's no way I'm going to the bank now. I turned around and ran home for fear that I was not back in this time. But what if I was two days earlier, two days late? What had happened to me? I go upstairs and everything is normal. And says, where's the money? I said, oh, I forgot it. She said, what did you do? I said, I'll go back out and get it. So I went back out and got the money. I tell her the story eventually. And she listens to it. And we're not into these weird stories, the truck went. So she's sort of OK. And then as time passes, it sort of really bugs me. And finally, we decide, I said to her. I finally said to her, if it ever happens again, if I'm able to, I'll put a classified ad in the journal, New York Journal, or one of those papers that existed then. So we decide to go up to the New York public library and look through the microfilm of all those old newspapers from the late 19th century, which is when it was. It was some time in there. And we do that. And we don't find any, oh, they're so cute. There's all these classifieds that say, saw you on a Broadway stage, right? Such and such. You smiled at me and stuff. And it's really wonderful. Miss connections. Yeah, exactly. It's really cool. But we never see anything that says, I am trapped in time. You like that? Do you imagine? Yeah. So now, fast forward to recently, about three years ago, I'm there. And I discover a sign on the little now big wild garden, not the-- not Anne's garden, but this is a block away. It's a wild garden. This has purposely been wilded. And it is a garden where nothing is ever touched. And there's a sign on it. It's called the time garden. And I think to myself, what is going on here? And that time, T-I-M-E. Yeah, T-I-M-E. Yeah, because the idea being that nothing will be touched in here. And so it'll be frozen in time. Oh. Isn't that cool? I mean, it's so wild. But then it gets even wilder when I'm talking about this, maybe on Dreamland, actually. And I think it was on my show. And someone writes me and says, do you know what was across the street from where that happened to you when it happened? It was Nicola Tesla's lab. And I think to myself, what if that was Tesla standing there, trying to figure-- what if he was doing experiments with time in the past? Oh my gosh. Yeah. There's no record of him doing experiments with time. But his lab was right in that immediate area. That was correct. If anyone was able to time travel, that was that man. Yeah. And maybe he drew me back in time. And he was trying to contact me. Maybe that was what he was yelling. Oh my gosh. Isn't that amazing? Yeah, it is very amazing. Now, you hear about these time slips. I've been looking into them quite recently, actually, about-- especially in England, there seemed to be a lot of them. And I don't know if that's because there's more precedent in England with history. It's a very weird place. But there are people who report in the same area turning a corner and just like you, seeing carriages and seeing old shops and wondering what the heck is going on. And as soon as they take a few steps, whoosh, it's back to normal. Yeah, but that's what happened to me. So we can conclude that that happens sometimes. It feels like it does. Yeah, I'm genuinely interested about those things. And man, what I wouldn't give to be able to explore one of those. Yeah, we all have our dreams. You know what I want to do? My dream is two things. Get out of my body on my own, because I know it's possible. And I would like to do it myself and go where I want to go and do what I want to do. Number two, I know levitation is real. And it is possible. And I want to do that. You know, there's a great book called The Flue by a Spanish writer Carlos, Carlos N.M. Iron is his name. And it's about all of the medieval levitation. Levitation. Levitation. And he never says they flew. That's the title. But he never in the book anywhere does he claim that? He just lays out the facts. And the thing that's fascinating about it is not only where there are thousands of witnesses to these events. They were studied by the Inquisition very carefully. And there are massive numbers of inquisitorial investigations into these levitations. And the reason being that the Inquisition was interested, because if they thought it was demons, then they were going to definitely fire you up. So these people who flew, you didn't make a big deal of that-- You didn't advertise it. Exactly, unless you were sure. And usually it was because other people saw it. And like Joseph of Cupertino was seen by even the Pope floating priest, or what have you-- Well, he levitated in front of the Pope and a room full of people. And the Pope at that time said, if he dies before I do, I am going to make him a saint. And unfortunately, it happened the opposite way. There's another wonderful story about a lady called Mary of a Greeda, with Diana Pasufa talks about this. And she was in the Convent, and she used to levitate. And she was not conscious when she-- She by-located as well. She by-located to New Mexico. That's right. Yeah, across the ocean. Right. But she also levitated. And the other nuns took to moving her out. You could apparently-- you could literally blow on her. And you know, she got blow away like a balloon. Like a helium balloon. And she would-- they would get her out into the courtyard. And people would pay to come in and blow her on her and move her around the courtyard. And when she found out about this, she was pissed off because, you know, she was being made a speck love and stuff. And she eventually was able to get God to stop her levitating. And most of them didn't want to levitate very much. I want to, though. No, I would love to. As a magician, you know, I'm very familiar with techniques in the illusion of levitators, and obviously, and I've I've pretty much I know them all, you know, I've seen friends of mine create some of the most incredible moments of levitation that have ever been captured on video. And I know how it's done. You know, I think of Xavier Mortimer, who in the middle of a park, right? No, nothing overhead. Just levitates and has a jump rope and uses the jump rope as well. So now he's eliminating multiple methods here. And still there is a method at play and there's trickery. Yeah, but you know, that's I have a limitation for that stuff in my own mind because of my, you know, my knowledge in deception. And I know that the further I go back in time, the easier people are to fool as well. Right. I wonder if that's the case then. Could it be that these people were all fooling thousands of witnesses? It's it's not unlikely. Obviously, is that, you know, it's not impossible. That's right. Be unlikely. Yeah. The reason it might be unlikely is that the sakes are so high for them because they could get into terrible trouble with the acquisition. Yeah, sure. I'm I'm sure there is definitely risk there and then cause not to divulge that or not to even, you know, try and trick someone, but there probably is an equal and opposite reason to want to do it, you know, and maybe we just we're unaware of it. I'd love to do it. I would too. I would just one story I heard from a man, a lovely guy called Paul Eno, who has passed away. He was, he got into this whole paranormal stuff and wrote some books. And but before that, he was a novice priest. And he ended up as the assistant to the diocesan exorcist. They were called to a mental institution in which there was a young 17 year old girl. The family was desperate because she was diagnosed as schizophrenic and she was a drug addict as well. And of course, she was a young girl and they were desperate to get her well. And nothing was helping. And so they had asked the exorcist for the exorcist in hopes that by some miracle, that would help. So the exorcist goes in to this room where the girl is sitting in a wheelchair. Paul is with him. There's a psychiatrist and three assistants, three attendees in the room as well. So all these people are there. The exorcist is doing his thing. And suddenly still in a sitting position, she rises up out of the chair. And oh, there were two assistants, Paul and one other guy. The exorcist had two assistants, Paul and another guy. And she's like floating in the air still in a sitting position. They all can see it. And the exorcist simply says to Paul, push her down into the chair. And he pushes her down into the chair again. And he said, I could feel an energy, a sort of mild electricity coming into my hand. And that's reported in a few of the cases in the medieval era as well. And I thought to myself often that if this is real, then that feeling, that sense of electricity, that whatever that is, is the key to a lot of things that we don't understand. And I went through many years, it's tailed off recently, of where I would feel that same electricity touching me in different places on my body. And when people were confronting, found themselves face-to-face with the visitors, it the cabin, if the visitors touched them, that electricity would go through their bodies. Perhaps how they were able to levitate them through the walls and through. Yeah, exactly. I think there's an energy that we don't understand. It's not magic. It's real. It's not supernatural, but it feels that way because we don't understand. Yeah, I would have to concede to that as well, because the amount of cases that report these levitations and this technology, it's something obviously we don't understand. Probably something to do with electromagnetic forces. Exactly. Or something akin to that that looks that way. It behaves in the same manner, but isn't quite gravity. I think of it as an earth energy. It's something to do with the planet. And there's a book, a very, very strange novel called "All in Everything," builds above's tails to his grandson, by a writer, and a seer, a master, really, called Giacor Chief. He is from Armenia, and he created this thing called the Giacor Chief Foundation. But the centerpiece of this book, and it's a kind of didactic novel. It's almost unreadable, by the way. I've never read the whole thing. And, of course, picked it up and read it in two weeks. I mean, you have to take a look at this thing. You'll understand when I say, and it was a really smart that she could read that in two weeks and understand it. Anyway, he has in it this thing, this demon or whatever it is, creates something called the organ cunderbruffer that severs us from this energy. It's Kundalini buffer. And we're severed from that energy. It's not, we weren't always. And I think if you look into the past and you see these incredibly mysterious, impossible ruins like the platform at Balbek or the fantastic immensity of some of the, and precision with some so many different, very ancient ruins around the world, possess the pyramids, the Asaks of Wamanin, Peru, or the 750,000 basalt logs that make up the artificial islands of Nan Madal in the Carolina islands in the Pacific. We can't do any of that anymore, or Ed Litzkowlin, who created call castle, somehow using techniques that he said he had learned in Lithuania from and that they were ancient Egyptian magic. They said he mastered the the techniques of the ancient Egyptians. Exactly. And all of that, you put all of that together. And you think to yourself, maybe your chief was right. Maybe we lost something. Maybe what we really are is something we've forgotten and lost. We've been severed from that energy. And then you circle back to NHI and we were talking earlier. Are they good guys or bad guys? Are there beings here trying to exploit us? Because we've kind of gone blind. And are there other beings here trying to help us reconnect with this energy? Maybe that's what it's all about. Maybe or maybe they want that severance for whatever person. Some may want it and some may want to help us. Because it's too mixed to bag. You say it's good guys or bad guys. Yeah, it's both. Absolutely. And I think a lot of the, you know, I don't think there is a binary system to good and bad. I don't think there is, I don't think there's such things good and bad. I think it's, I'm, I'm a definite gray area. And I think the grades are called the grades. Yeah, it's, there are no opposites. It's just varying degrees of the same thing. Right. Okay. We have a question here from tests. Thank you, by the way, for all that. That was amazing. Test asks you've discussed utilizing your implant as a research tool. What has been your most significant revelation? You know, that's that can't be answered as a simple answer that my most significant revelation was this. The, I think the most significant revelation was understanding how to use it, how to do that. And, you know, I wrote a book called in Hitler's House. I started it right after Annie passed away because I wasn't able to write anything in this subject and I, and I'm interested in history. And in, you know, World War II history in particular, it's one of my interests. Would you like my water, by the way? Yeah. I'm drinking out of this thing anyways. Okay. So, I learned to use the implant. writing that book. And I guess the most significant revelation was learning how. First, after she passed away, it's when I began to see the slit, all those years from 1989 until late 2015, it just was there, didn't do anything. Then in 2013, 2014, no, no, it's early 2015, excuse me, she begins to get me to memorize a certain poem called "Song of the Wandering Angus," which has the lines in it when white moths were on the wing and the moth-like stars were flickering out. This leads to my realization for the whole sequence of events, including the fact that I realized that the, her favorite short story of mine was called "The White Moths," and this white moth starts appearing in front of the camera at the house that she's created, was creating an avatar for herself, the white moth. What that woman really was, I don't know, but she sure knew a lot about life and death, because I think she's the only person who's ever intentionally created an avatar for herself, to show her presence in this world. Anyway, then at some point, the slits opened up in words of racing through it, and I'm trying to figure out what's going on. At one point, it slows down, and it says, "It's me, Anne," and the words start up again very fast. Eventually, and this is the most significant breakthrough, I find out, if I take my mind, my thinking out of my head, and just relax and let it let the words race, they will tell me what I need to know without my looking for it. So I'm writing this book, and it's from the viewpoint of someone who was there with Hitler before and during the World War. So it's got to be the very similar to it has to be perfect. It's not just a historical novel. You've got to know what kind of suits they wore, what kind of things they ate, what kind of pens they used, what their bed linen felt like, what they bathed with, what kind of toothpaste they used, all of that stuff, and all of those details keep dropping into my head. Some of them just drop into it. Sometimes I am given an idea of how to Google it. Sometimes I just have to let a certain question go. I needed something, some details about Hitler's personal life, like it put, you know, how often did he brush his teeth? Where did he sleep? What was it like? What did he eat? And somehow or another, I end up on the German language Google. I don't know how I got there suddenly, and I get it Google translate the page, and in it is a page on the page that I'm on is a story about a one of Hitler's valets who wrote a book about him about his experience as Hitler's valet. So I go on the German Amazon and I find the book. It's in German. It's never been translated into English. I buy it. It comes a couple weeks later, and I'm looking at it, and I think this is gold, but I can't read German. And I mentioned it at a group of friends, and one of the people says, "Oh, I'm from Germany. I speak German. I'll read it. I'll translate it for you." And so I get every detail about Hitler's brand of toothpaste and everything. That's how the implant works. It's not like it doesn't tell me. I've asked it for things like antigravity and physics stuff, and so forth, and it will extrapolate from things I already know or push me in right directions, but it won't give me original ideas that I don't already have some connection to. It's almost like a synchronicity engine. Yeah. That would be that it's one level of it is definitely that. Wow. It's very cool to use the other thing as in this, it's all now, and in this conversation, you'll notice I've never lost a name or anything like that as we've gone through the conversation because the implant, I don't necessarily remember the name of Robert Sarabacher when the implant is not on, but when it is on, no problem. Do you often make sure it is on before? Is there any way of engaging it? Yeah. To go on and off or does it turn on when you're about to go on? Oh, no. It's something that the implant considers important, whoever's on the other side of it, it'll turn on like the morning before. It turned on today or early, and then when you call me up and told me we were going to be starting late, it turned off. I thought, oh, God. Now, if it doesn't turn on again, what will I do? I'll be an idiot in there. Oh, I'm flattered. I'm flattered. It turned back on again while we were riding in the car. And I can feel it when it turns on. It gets hot. Wow. And then at once, you know, there was a wonderful guy at Southwest Research called Bill Mallow. He was the head of material science, and he was the one who did the implant research that Roger Lear did there. He wasn't allowed to put anything on Southwest Research Stationary, but he didn't care. He was only the founders of it. And so he did what he wanted. And the implant once turned on in his office, we were talking about it. I was telling him about it and telling him the story. And he said, my God, your ear is bright red. And I felt it was hot. And I said, it's turned on, Bill. He said, let's go to the signals lab right now. And we ran across the campus to this signals lab. And so I sat in a signals lab. And these two guys were in there. And they were working, trying to acquire a signal. And after a while, they said, they were finished. And I said to Bill, well, can you find out from them what they found or if anything, he said, no, I can't because the lab's classified. I thought, this is fairly annoying, but you know, what could I do? 20 years pass. I'm signing books at the book festival in San Antonio. And two guys walk up to me. And they say, we just want you to know that the signal that was found coming from your implant is understudy to this day. It is one of the strangest and most complex signals that we have ever discovered. And then they turn around and walk out. Wow. I think that's so cool. I love it. I mean, it's, yes, fabulous. I would love to follow up. Listen, I have to tell you this. One of the great frustrations is, why just me? Why some horror novelist who's smart enough, but I'm not Stephen Hawking. Any of those guys, why don't they get him? Why don't our best minds get him? Not just me. Yeah. Who says they don't have him? Well, yeah, that's true. I'm that I hadn't thought of that. Maybe they don't even know they have them. Right. Maybe they're geniuses because they have them. Yeah. Attendant ones. Yeah. One more here. This is one, I think that might be on a lot of people's minds as we move closer to next year. Do you believe the threat of a major coronal mass ejection is still active by Alan Barker? Absolutely. Yeah. There is definitely a threat of a major coronal mass ejection. Our star is a yellow dwarf and they do have a bad habit of bursting out with these big burps every once in a while. We have had our star has, you find in the geologic record evidence of much bigger coronal mass ejections than the Carrington event of 1853. See that popped in. You notice a little stop in my voice. That was the implant, giving me the information, the dates. And so we are always at risk of that. And the fact that the sun has been acting strangely for the past few years now is, I think, a warning sign. I wrote a little book years ago called Solar Flair. It's still actually available online on, it was an e-book and it's sold like four copies. Because in the time when e-books were very new, but it's still sitting there somewhere. And it shows it goes into detail about what could happen. And it could be catastrophic beyond belief, we could be in a situation where we lose, well, first, we didn't necessarily lose the internet, but we'd lose satellites, because the internet has been hardened against this. What we, the most serious loss would be power, because there are these huge transformers that we don't have replacements for, or we have a few replacements, but if they all blew like in the United States, we would be with no power for years, and if you look at what that would do, it causes the decline in the population of massive proportions. So it's an extremely dangerous situation, and of course, most of the power companies are, they're interested in, you know, the fatal three-month measurement in capitalism, which is management cares about the next finance report three months from now. They do not care about the company five years from now, or the world ten years from now, or anything like that. That's why when you have these, all these fires, and it always, half the time, it turns out more than half the time, to have been power lines that they did not prepare for wins, and they spark, and they cause these huge fires, because they didn't want to spend the money. You know, every company is penny-wise and pound foolish, except the most forward-looking ones, and the power company is almost always going to be penny-wise and pound-pound foolish. So they have not built enough backup transformers, nor have they created a situation where they can be easily reconnected. Other countries have much better hardening the UK and the EU do. China probably. I don't know about China. I logically yes, but we're going to be devastated almost certainly. Do you think there is some mass event that will occur next year? You know, there's a lot of talk about 2027, yeah. Well, supposedly John Ramirez, the CIA guy, said something about that. He was a proponent of it, but also I had him on here and asked him about it, and he said, "No, I just repeated what someone else said." Yeah, that's what he told me on my show too. Yeah. Yeah. But who said it? I mean, if you look back, you can't find out who exactly where it started. It's one of those things that sort of bubbled up. Yeah. But it seems to be timely as well, if you look at the critical mass of all of these different, you know, things whether it's AI, you would see financial instability, you know. Oh, listen, environmental collapse, all this stuff. The private credit crunch is a major financial problem that's going to become in our way very soon. Now, and that is definitely an issue, but the other thing is that when you think about the possibilities of, you know, speaking of critical mass, what if the critical mass is what we talked about a little bit earlier of us in our minds becoming so convinced that the aliens are real, that they come in through the door of the mind from another dimension, and that happens in 2027, it would be about the right time. And probably far better than some of the alternatives that we're currently facing, including nuclear destruction. Well, yeah. No, that's another possible thing. You know, one of the things that I never, ever talk predictions, but I do get things. And we're far enough along into this one that I feel comfortable talking about it, that now it's about nine months ago, maybe eight, nine, maybe ten months ago. I received during one of the three A.M. conversations in the implant that there was a significant danger that a war with Iran would evolve into a nuclear conflict worldwide, not because anyone wanted it to, but because it would happen like, "Bro or one happened," or they couldn't stop going to war once they started. And now we've gone to war with Iran, we're at war with Iran. And I don't see how that would happen. In other words, I thought of it at the time as more warning than a prediction. And I think that may have been what it is, but right now, I don't see how the war in Iran could possibly end in a nuclear conflict, a worldwide nuclear conflict. But then again, on August the 1st, 2014, everyone thought well there's some trouble in the Balkans. On September the 1st, the entire world was unexpectedly at war. Yep. Yeah, what else can you say? The quickening, right? Whitley, it's been an absolute pleasure once again, discussing all of this with you, whether it's the visitors, whether it's time travel or whether it's the fate of the world, it always seems like we're having an interesting conversation. So I appreciate your time and I appreciate you coming out here and discussing this with me. Is there anything you'd like to leave my audience with? Is there anywhere you'd like, any direction you'd like to point them to, just feel free to do that? Sure. Okay. Now is my chance to do that. Okay. So in order so that people could see how it was when the Grays came into the life of a family, we lived it. It was not impossible at all. It was quite wonderful in many respects and incredibly cool. We had some of the best house parties you could imagine because we can actually say to people, well, you want to meet Adans, come on up to the cabin and it actually would happen. And the books full of all kinds of insights about what that will be like. So it's there because I think that might happen to a lot of people and you can grab that book and look at it and think, well, they lived through it and it turned out to be pretty cool. And also my show is Dreamland, my website, Unknown Country, it's got a brand new look that just went up yesterday last week and I'm here. I'm definitely doing this. Well, all of those links below for my audience. Thank you again so much, Whitley. Thank you. Always a pleasure, Chris. [MUSIC]