the strategy behind a cult-like brand, influencer strategy, and angel investing ft. Kira Jackson (@kiramackenzie)

work-life balance, do you think that exists? - Yeah, absolutely not. - I'm Alyssa and welcome to the inspired media podcast, a space for creators, creatives, and entrepreneurs who know they're meant to do more than just stop the scroll. So we're putting the spotlight on the unspoken truths and unconventional takes on how to truly build a standout brand online. Now, let the show begin. If you clicked on this episode, I'm gonna assume that you love to learn about social media marketing, content creation, personal branding, influencer marketing, and we talk so much about all those things on the inspired media podcast. But today, I wanna zoom out a little bit and I'm so excited to finally say, I have Kira on the podcast, who is the chief brand officer of "Sat Active." A brand I know all the girlies know and love. Okay, I'm literally wearing one of my favorite sports bras. I'm wearing one of my favorite sports bras from them right now. And it has been an absolute dream of mine to get her on this podcast, especially to talk to you. And to me, about brand strategy, what it really takes to have a standout brand in 2025 to sell products, to market those products. So if you've been wanting to know the brand's the BTS on what it truly takes to not just go along with trends, but to really create a cult-like brand, this episode is for you. Hey Kira, welcome to the inspired media podcast. Thank you, I'm actually so excited. I am so excited to have you here. I have 10,000 million bajillion questions to ask you. But before we get into that, can you please let not that you need any introduction, but can you please let everyone know who you are, what's going on, a little bit about you? Yeah. Okay, so I'm Kira McKenzie, as known online, Kira Jackson in real life. I started my career in PR, pivoted that into private equity, and I've since pivoted that into a career as a C-suite exec at "Sat Active," where I run all things brand. So brand marketing, touch wholesale, touch art, store experience, and then obviously touch products, too, which has been really fun. Now that I have you here, I cannot start this podcast with the Chief Brand Officer of "Sat Active" without deep diving into brand strategy first. So my first question to you is, what do you think about brand trips? Yeah, I mean, I think there's a time and a place truthfully. I think brand trips bring so much value for a brand and building a relationship with a creator. I also, I kind of want to segment our brand trips through the sense of influencer brand trips and community brand trips. And interestingly enough, I just went to an event last night for one of my girlfriend's brands, "Havenmehampia," hosted this whole activation. She invested, she invited influencers, creators, and community members all at the same time. So it was sort of this hyper-realistic experience for the consumer because they were walking around and they were like, "Oh my God, I know these people online." So it was fun for them. But also, from an influencer perspective, we got to meet the real community and she got to spend time with her real community. So I think, from a brand trip perspective, I think about it in two ways. One is like, what is the experience that you're offering an influencer or creator? Not experience usually has to be a little bit different than what you're offering a community member. And then separately, community brand trips. And I think the investment output is significantly different for each of those different categories. So for an influencer perspective, it's all about relationship building. It's all about offering an experience that they wouldn't otherwise have access to. So giving them access to something like enough one race or giving them access to Coachella, all of these sorts of cultural moments and initiatives, like it gives the influencer the opportunity to create content in kind of a controlled setting, if you will, I wish I had a better term for that. But you know what sort of output you're going to get from the content that comes out of that creative. So you're sort of like setting the stages for like, this is the UGC that I want to see from you. And I'm going to put all circumstances in place in order to make it possible for you to create. So when I think about like the benefit, it's twofold. It's the relationship. And then it's the content that comes out of that. I wouldn't necessarily say that like influencer brand trips really spur purchase decisions. However, I'll caveat that by saying like, sometimes, I think shameery and same do a really great job of this. They'll just integrate same into influencer trips or even like vacations. And that content in and of itself makes you want the bikini. It makes you want the one piece, whatever, because you see it in real life. So I think that there are different types of trips for different types of outputs. And then from a community perspective, I mean, it's all about relationship building. You take your top community members who are driving the majority of your sort of high LTV consumer base and give them an experience that they would otherwise see influencers having. They're going to be loyal to you for the rest of time. Oh my gosh. Yeah, that luxury experience. And the Haven Mayhem, big fan, big fan of PA, big fan of Haven Mayhem, another blueprint brand. I like that idea of having more hybrid events, where it's community members and influencers. I think that actually does what people think brand trips are for. But when I see the big brand trips, like Coachella, like F1, people are like, well, this doesn't make me want to buy the brand. And I'm like, I don't think it's really meant to. It's really for building that relationship with that influencer. And then because they have this relationship together and they're building that relationship, then in quote unquote real life, they're going to want to talk about the brand in their everyday. They're going to have that sort of brand loyalty. So it's almost like it's not immediately for the consumer, but maybe down the line. And that's how I like to see it. And every single time, like a tarp brand trip, for example, every single time it comes up, it's like the drama, the tea, like this, I hate tar, it's not going to make me want it. And I'm like, right now, it's not. But think about down the line. When you see that influencer back from this trip and they're only using those products, that's what's going to want to make you buy. And that's what I think that's just the difference in like who is this for, and consumers kind of realizing to like, oh, this is, this was never really for me in the first place. The big ones. Well, you bring up a really interesting point, too, because I think it's about the follow through. It's not necessarily just about like that activation, but what I think revolve and like Rice has done so well at revolve is they become synonymous with Coachella, meaning they're synonymous with festival season. So the moment any girl within their target demographic is thinking, oh, I want to go to Coachella, I want to go to stage coach, I want to go to the desert, whatever, the first place they go to is revolve or forward because those are the brands that are synonymous with the cultural activation. And I think if you can make it to that point of being the brand that is known for X, then you see really long tail effects. And I know like even Coachella, it's a huge investment for revolve, but if you listen to their quarterly investor updates, it's incredibly profitable for them, which is amazing. - Yes, exactly. Okay, I love that we touched on that because that's been such a huge discussion right now. Like, who it's for and all the tea and all the craziness, but I think if you think about it on just a strategy perspective, a brand perspective, it always makes sense. Even if the consumer is a little bit confused and I think to anyone listening whether you want to be into social media marketing or brand marketing or anything like that to think about things at that twofold, like you said, as a consumer, but also as a strategist. So you can really understand why is this happening, what's going on, you can be better informed. But let's talk about set because I already said that set is the blueprint. One launch that you guys did, well, I love all your launches, obviously. I'm always stalking, I'm on the email list. But bloopers was my favorite. My favorite, I love bad things. I love bad things. I always say bad things make good content. Anytime I have a creator, a business owner, we like this happened, I messed up here, my flight was delayed, the shipping, I'm like, okay, on like a friend's standpoint, I hate this for you. Business owner standpoint, hate this for you. Now in the content standpoint, amazing, amazing. We can make so much out of this. And I think you did such a good job or set did such a good job. So to you, what makes a launch actually successful? - Yeah, I mean, when I think about bloopers, before I get into bloopers specifically, what makes a launch successful is it profitable, hugely profitable, and for us, we are sort of an interesting business model because we're a drop based model. So we buy inventory and then the success is percentage of sell through, obviously, because we're setting our own capacity for what we can make from this drop. Obviously, we have our always on product is kind of an ongoing offering, but between that, the drops are really what bring that hype. And I think that that's amazing for now. Do I think it's gonna be completely scalable long-term? No, so we're also pivoting into other alternatives there, scaling the buys, making it possible for people to buy into the brand when they want to, without that sort of scarcity mindset. So we'll get to that too, but separately, I think when you look at bloopers, what makes a drop like that successful to me is not necessarily sell through. It's the opportunity to be able to sell products that would have otherwise been difficult to sell, but it's also the opportunity to build a real trust and transparency with the consumer. We're not trying to pull the wool of their eyes by like, by this product at full price, you're gonna try it on, it's gonna be a size two small, you're gonna be like, shit, did I eat? - Right. - Too much less, and I'm like, no, it's not about you, it's not your problem, it's our problem. So we're taking responsibility for it. We're giving you a discount, we're telling you how to size in it, and you're still gonna love the product. So I think for that drop, the success, that barometer is so different than the majority of our drops, because the majority of our drops, I think, okay, well, creative is a percentage of the opportunity for revenue from that inventory by. Marketing is sort of like an element of what that total investment is prior to the drop. Can we be which we are incredibly profitable on each of the drops, and then can we sell through the drops? - Okay, oh my gosh. I feel like that was just like a little mini master class. - Yeah, that one. - I thought it sounded like that, when we were ambling in my brain, I was like, oh, land the plane here. - No, that's okay. I know I love it. It's so interesting to see like all of the thought and detail and strategy that goes behind the scenes and on the brand stuff, because what we usually just see is social media, the majority of what everyone sees is social media, social media is top of final, and I know set just hired another social media manager, can you give us a little bit of tea on how do you choose, maybe not you specifically, which is like as a brand, how do you choose someone that is literally going to be for how long they work there, the face of the brand, you're top of final, you're host of the restaurant. - This is a really, really good question. I think when we think about social media manager, so we have two roles at set, which I think are really interesting. We have social media manager, and then we have a content producer. Our content producer is like our short-term video queen. She does our TikTok, she also does a lot of our reels, and vice versa, I mean our social media manager kind of like sits in a similar vein, but really focuses on Instagram, and driving that channel and also on Pinterest, and then we're gonna be exploring out their channels soon too. But when I think about the right person for those roles, they're a representation of set in the sense that they represent our core values, and then beyond that, they have the sort of personality that engages with our core consumer demographic. And I think that it's okay if that goes a little bit beyond what are like 24 to 34 year old consumer demo really looks like, which is this like Coastal Girl in New York, LA, a little bit of like Dallas, a little bit of Boston, like our primary markets. We like to stretch that aperture a little bit by finding someone who is approachable and can speak to that demo, but can also like speak to other demos. That's one piece. Honestly, when I think about hiring for those roles though, and I don't know if this is the right answer, but I don't think as much about how they're going to be perceived on camera as much as I probably should. I think more about what do they bring to the table creatively? Do they envision? Does it align with that sort of long-term vision? And then separately, do they understand strategy and execution? Can they be creative, but then also execute on those ideas? And I think when you think about like a long-term human in those types of roles, it's great if they can talk to a camera, but it's actually so much more valuable. If you have somebody who can think creatively, think outside of the box, continue to push the brand forward, and then actually make those ideas come to fruition. Yeah, come to life. One thing that you said that I just really, really want everyone to pay attention to, especially if you're a brand owner or a business owner, is I like that set is okay with expanding the brand strategy for socials if that makes sense. I think a lot of businesses, they have this really amazing, fleshed out brand strategy, and they get on socials, and they try to execute it like point by point, yeah. We're on socials. You're kind of in a different world. You're in a different era. You need to stretch a little bit. Your social media strategy might not actually be super, super on par with your brand strategy. I like to think about it as an extension of it, but to be flexible, that is really where we see brands thrive. A really good example of this is when old Navy first got their TikTok, and I saw their TikTok, and I said, oh my gosh, they need to get something. They need to get a social media manager. It was all just what they would post as little commercials. A little YouTube commercial was highly produced. It was the models walking into the frame. It was in a studio, and I was like, yep, this is what it is. This is a brand treating social media as like, oh, this is our brand, so this is our brand, and that's it, and not having that flexibility, not having that like, well, you're not just really talking to that target demographic that you talked about in your board meeting with all of your advisors. You're in a different field. You're in a field where it's not run by those people, actually. So I think it's really important for brands to be able to, yes, to be true to their brand identity, but then, at the same time, understanding that you need to speak the language of where you are. And I love that Sattactive does that so well, and has that sort of flexibility. I think every brand can definitely learn from that, and I actually see this from Old Navy, which they stopped doing that type of content, and they did the behind the scenes of their designs, and their process, and who's designing their clothes, and I was like, oh, thank God, because please, you cannot be giving us commercials like that. But also to your point about hiring someone for this creative, but then can't execute. So, so, so important. I think every single content creator, every content creator that wants to increase their opportunities to work with brands, whether that's UGC influencers, maybe becoming a face of some big brand, whatever that big dream is, you have to have both. There can't just be like, I'm just here with a bunch of ideas, or I'm just really good on camera. Like, it's that balance. And I just, yeah, I think you guys just do such a good job of blending all that together. - Thank you, that is the biggest compliment. I think the biggest takeaway is just like, know your audience, and your audience is gonna be different across every single platform. So, you have to talk to them differently. - Yes, exactly. So, something else that we were kind of dipping into is influencers, and I know a set does set against such a good job, but with working with not only their influencers, not just like the big influencers, but really having a community focused approach. So, if somebody listening, somebody in the room, wants to work with the set, wants to create content, wants to be a set influencer, what are you looking for? - Oh, girl, let's go. (laughs) - I can't wait to get your product. I mean, I think that it comes down to a couple of things. We're not necessarily looking for anything prescriptive. What's really interesting about our influencer program, and I'm extremely proud of, and this is something I unfortunately cannot take any credit for, but I give all the flowers in the world to our founder and CEO Lindsay, because this was really her vision from the get-go. It's like, we operate on a purely gifted basis for our influencer programming. And I think that that is a pro and a con. We'll get into a little bit of the con. But from a pros perspective, I mean, there are so many. The idea is that we partner with creators in the vein where we offer them gifting, and in exchange, they create content. It's not necessarily like a quid pro quo. We would never say, oh, in exchange for this product, you need to provide us with these assets. But we've cultivated this community over time that are familiar with that sort of model where they get the product, they love it so much, they wear it, they create content in it, and then we can leverage that content across our channels. And what we're starting to see is the more that we gift micro influencers and community members, the more those members are interested in having us leverage their content for things beyond just organic-owned channels. We're leveraging UGC for our PDPs. I mean, to help increase conversion rate on your actual product description page to check out, which is hugely valuable. We're starting to incorporate UGC in our ads. And shockingly, we have so many community members and so many creators who are open to us leveraging that content completely free. And I think that that's a real testament to the community that's been built around the brand. As much as we gift, we want to give back to that community by providing a platform to them. So standing for the things that they stand for, if there's a nonprofit that one of our creators is insanely excited about, and we're doing a co-branded collection with them, which we do, and we do that on a revshare basis, then we will bake in a give back as a part of that collection that speaks to that nonprofit. And I think that those types of things are really important where we're partners. Everything should feel symbiotic with our community and with our creators. I think that's where a lot of brands sort of like that falls to the wayside. The other interesting thing about our program is it's completely and entirely manual. So we manage it all internally. We have an incredible influencer specialist who literally places every single individual order. We do use Shop My. It's probably accounting for about 70%. No, 70% of our gifting at the moment. And everything else is just organic and completely manual. Go, Nikki. And then in addition to that, we're kind of baking in a couple of other failsafe in order to ensure that we're getting the type of content that we need. But so much of that is just like when we look at a creator, what type of content are they creating? Are they already a fan of set? Do they obviously have exclusivities in the space, which is a very real thing with competitors that have huge budget? And then do we think that we can work with them long time? Budgeting is interesting, especially with the influencer economy, just booming. Everybody wants to be an influencer. People are learning about rates and learning about things. And the fact that you guys do have an approach that is gifted only. I think something that a lot of people don't realize is even though a brand is so big on socials, I think they assume that every single brand has a-- what's a big, big brand? I think every single-- I think people assume that every single brand has the target Walmart budget of yes, we can do everything. But if you really look at set, huge brand, but so much of it is, I believe, self-funded, is that correct? So how do you guys look at influencer marketing in that way to be like, OK, this is sustainable for us, but this is not something that we could do? Yeah, I mean, from a brand perspective, from a marketing standpoint, when I think about budget just in general, my number one sort of checkbox is profitability. Because we are self-funded, because the business is bootstrapped. Again, kudos to Lindsay. Everything that we do has to have a return. And that's not necessarily saying that influencer marketing wouldn't have a return if we did invest in it. I think investing in the right people you do see a return. So I want to give creators also their flowers in that sense. But that's why we do co-branded collections with influencers, because we sign on to the inventory that we know that we can sell. As a part of that by, we say, x percentage is yours. Here is your minimum guarantee up front from drop day. And then it's all upside from there. And we can say, we can pay you in exchange for what is driven. It's the same thing as an affiliate-based model. Totally. Yes, yes, yes, yes. And I love how-- Exactly, yeah. And I love how one, transparent and honest you guys are about that. And that it's not just like this, like, OK, yeah, it's like create-- we need this reel in this way. And this TikTok and 20,000 stories. Oh, no, no, no, no. It's like, it really is, again, what you're talking about, that symbiotic relationship. It's like, OK, this is what makes sense for us. But we are also thinking about you as the creator. Here's how we can actually have a mutually beneficial exchange. And I think especially thinking about somebody that really wants to work with brands, or is just starting out and learning what negotiation is and learning with brands, they could potentially see something like that and be like, oh, well, I should-- pay my-- I should charge my worth. I should be able to make XML just like this person. And while, yes, of course, if you're thinking about long term, that totally makes sense. But they think, again, it's that kind of intuition of, OK, what makes sense for this brand? If I do this, is it going to be something long term? And understanding where ever brand is coming from? And it really is the CEO side, really, of being a creator, and being an influencer. So I think that was so enlightening to everybody listening. Like, this is really what's happening behind the scenes and why programs are sometimes like this and why it's like, yeah, Alex Earl can make $70,000 off of a brand that is probably not self-funded or bootstrapped. Sure. There's a lot of things. There's a lot of components that are happening there. But kind of still talking about brands. You've been in the space for so long. You have an outstanding career. So knowing what you know now, what are the top ways a brand can self-sabotage themselves? Yeah, what are the top ways a brand can just completely drop the ball? You know, OK, this is such a good question. I want to go deep into it. Can I say one more thing on the end? Please, yeah, yeah. If you are a creator and you want to be working with brands, the number one way to start, at least from my standpoint, is sign up for their shot my programs. They're like to know at programs and start to drive revenue. Because like, transparently, that's how we build the relationships with the people that we build collections out with who got six-figure minimum guarantees out of those deals. We see them drive insane revenue. And they might be somebody with 50,000 followers on TikTok, genuinely. And those are the people who drive the majority of our revenue through something like a shot my on a monthly basis. So all this to say, you should be paid your worth. I think proving your worth in the upfront and then being able to bring that to reality is the key. So I'm so sorry. I wanted to take a cross before we got into specifics. No, that's a yes. That's a really good point. And to anyone listening, because I know one of the biggest misconceptions for influencers and creators who want to work with brands is they have to have a large following. And I say that every-- Oh, yes. She goes, no, no, no, no. We're so right. You don't have to have a large following. You just have to prove that you are going to be an asset, quote unquote, your content is going to be an asset. Your content is going to make sense for the brand. And you don't need a ton of followers to do that I am so confident that your influencer currently is looking at ratios. They're looking at the brand as a whole. They're looking at can we fit in here before they really get into like, oh, oops, guess they only have 20,000 followers, where that's just not relevant. Because if it doesn't move forward with the purpose of it, then you don't need a lot of followers to do that. 100%. I'm so sorry to dig grass, but that's so important to hammer home. Yes, exactly. OK, so back to the other questions. I know we can go off into 10,000-- the Jillian 10 gens. But yeah, top ways that a brand can sabotage themselves. I think number one, not being true to your core values as a brand. I think that that's what we see with a lot of legacy brands that are sort of like trying to pivot and refine their footing as new and kind of like sexier brands into the space. So that's one thing. I would say not saying true to who you are your core is number one. Other ways that they can sabotage. If I'm being completely transparent and we want to get a little bit spicy, I don't necessarily think that brand should be aligning themselves with one creator or one talent. So one celebrity, one anything. I think it gives you a quick skyrocket and boom. And within three years, you're plateaued. So that is the number one-- no, no. For me, especially when I'm looking at brands to invest in, is are they going too hard on bringing in celebrity or talent too early? And are they giving them too much of the business where they're not going to be able to diversify long term? And they're going to be stuck with that creator. So yeah, that's what comes to mind. OK, actually such a good point. Because it leads me to my next question, especially regarding celebrity brands. Like we've seen massive celebrity brands take off, like House Labs, Skims, of course. But then we see someone like Jalos brand, which took a little bit of a step back, if you will. We know Siza is going to start her own beauty brand. So what is the difference, or I guess, maybe the strategy, or just your thoughts on what makes a successful celebrity brand? Because I think people just assume, oh, I have this huge audience, or people know me for this. People like my music, like let's go into a makeup brand, or whatever brand that they want to do. And then it doesn't fall through. And then some do. So what are the differences? Oh, my God. OK, this is probably also going to be a lot of a controversy. I think the best thing, it comes down to two things. One, is the celebrity actually invested on a day-to-day basis in building this brand? I talk about road a lot. I talk about rare beauty a lot. It is because their celebrity founders are genuinely in the day-to-day of their brands. Point blank. You can't fake that authenticity. And I hate to say that live, but it's so, so true. But the second is hiring the right team from the get-go. I think there are so many celebrities who partner with incubator. Kind of like what they'll do is they'll create a brand. They'll create the framework of the bones for the brand. And then they'll go scout talent to bring into the brand and that's already kind of like that. And this happens so much more than people think. It could be talent agencies, but also there are strictly incubators who raise funding for a brand and then use that to go bring the celebrity into an already built, like 70% brand. That never works. But if the celebrity says, I'm die-hard obsessed with skincare. I'm die-hard obsessed with beauty. I think that it aligns with my core values in ethos. And what my community knows me for outside of maybe my nine or five or my day to die. And then they say, OK, I'm going to build this brand. But in order to do that, I'm going to partner with extra-teacher-cumin. And I'm going to bring in this CEO. And this is my board. And maybe I raise a little bit of funding in order to be able to blitz the market. But I do it from VCs who understand the market opportunity and are in it for the long haul. That is the recipe for success. I think it's why some Kardashian brands work, and some of them don't. But yeah, it truly is about the team that's brought in from day one. So really, what I'm getting from there-- and I hate to say-- like, I truly hate to say, like, oh, it's so authentic. But if you really got down to the core of it, it really is. It should be an extension of that celebrity over, like, oh, I've never really associated you with that before. Or you've never even really talked about X, Y, and Z thing before. So it doesn't really make sense. Rare is such a good example. I mean, like, the most ever single product is Selena Gomez coated. Like, there is nothing that doesn't make sense. Even if you don't maybe like the formula or anything like that, that's separate. That's the product team can handle that. But if you look at just like the way that it's planned out and the marketing behind it, it's like, yeah, of course, this couldn't really be anyone else's brand. But I also think-- and I'd love to know your feedback on this. I think Selena actually does a good job of kind of ish separating herself from the brand or not being-- she is the face. But again, I think you can just say this in more of an eloquent way. But she's involved, but she's not everything. Would you agree? A thousand percent. But I think that also comes back to like, they let their teams shine. So like, when you look at Rare Beauty, I mean, Katie Welch, who I love her. I love her. Also, the archetype of just like what a CMO should be. She shines as CMO. And I think that that's really important where you have the right team and the right roles. And you allow them to have their moments. Also, Selena is not in every single campaign. She has other people in her campaign. Sometimes she brings in creators. Sometimes it's community members. It really runs the gamut. But to your point, it's Selena's brand. It's Haley's brand. But they're able to step back and let somebody else take the spotlight. Totally. I think that's critical. Like, even for road, having Tape McRae star in a campaign, like, it adds that cultural element. It adds the cool face, same thing with skims. Like, it adds the cool factor. It keeps you relevant, it keeps you cultural. But it doesn't necessarily require that Kim Kardashian is in every single photo. Totally. What they do do is they utilize that celebrity, that talent, to bring other celebrity talent into the room when a lot of brands would have to pay a lot of money in order to gain access to that type of talent. Yeah. And I think what you said about relevancy is so important, because a celebrity is not always relevant. So that's why you bring your other celebrities that are maybe more relevant than you. Like, the Tape McRae collab was-- Oh, it was wonderful. It was so beautifully done. And then I think also it's one, so fun for the consumer to see, like, I didn't even know these two knew each other. I didn't even know they could even be in the same room. And it makes me feel like, oh, fuck. Now I want to be both of their friends, so I must buy. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. And I think it's interesting, too, because we're talking about one caliber of brand. But there are so many up-and-coming brands that are doing very similar things, but on a smaller scale that is still feeding that core consumer demographic. So like, look at a daily drills, for instance. They bring creators into their brand to curate capsule collections. Look at set, we do the exact same thing. Like, there are opportunities for brands that do not have those budgets, do not have those relationships to still speak to their target demographic in a very meaningful way without it, without over-indexing on the founder or the talent that is associated with the launch of the brand. Yeah, totally. Oh my gosh, again, another little mini master class. So write that down for you, listening. But I want to shift a little bit. And I want to talk about something that I have been so curious to know about. And that's angel investing. Something that you also talk about on your page. And I remember when I first found your page, it was like, oh, it sounds cute. Like, what is it? Like that, oh, that sounds so cute. So can you tell someone specifically me? Can you tell us what is it like the beginner's guide to what angel investing is? Yeah, basically what it is is investing in brands at various stages of growth and capitalization as an independent human. So sometimes that is through an SPV, which is a more organized structure. Sometimes it's direct as an angel. If you're on the cap table, your name is on the cap table. And it gives you the opportunity, I think, from my standpoint, what's so appealing to me about angel investing is twofold when I get to support founders that I'm obsessed with and brands that I love. I just, I love to like, I'm the girl that loves like brand stickers. Like, I love to have stickers on my laptop. I want like bumper stickers. I want everyone to know that I'm associated with these brands because I just want to like shout from the rooftops that I'm obsessed with them. So like, that checks that box. But then separately, too, like, you got to behind the scenes peak of how all of these brands are doing their business and how they structure their buys, their wholesale relationships, their investments in retail. I mean, their international expansion. It gives you so much visibility into the successful and unsuccessful runnings of a company that you can then apply towards either your own business or businesses of your clients, et cetera. Yeah. So if somebody wanted to just like first dip their toes into angel investing, is there like a step, a caliber, a place in your career that you should be to get started with that? Or is it just kind of like a, hey, I found this founder, I found this brand. Let me email them and let me go support them. Look, what does that look like? Yeah, I mean, I think it's a couple of ways. I mean, I think from a community perspective, like say you're a consumer of a brand and you're like, I want angel investing this brand. I think it's really important that you show how you can add value to the founder to the team. So building the relationship directly with the founder directly with the team and showing them what you bring to the table, as if you were applying for a job because ultimately like they're getting in bed with you for a very long time, longer than if you were an employee in most cases. Or if you're a creator saying like, hey, I bring a ton of value through affiliate relationships. You can see what myself through is. You can see what my community thinks about the brand. I talk about you all the time. My friend literally just did this with Chroma Wellness because she was talking about their bone broth so much that at some point I was like, you literally just have to invest in it because you should get some of that upside. And she was like, okay, so she emails the founder and then she's like, oh my gosh, that's amazing. I think that it's really about what is the value that you bring to the table, proving not value, similar way to like if you wanted to be a creator for a brand, how would you encourage that? Okay, any brands to keep a lookout for angel investing? Any brands that you're like, oh, that's really interesting. Okay, so it's really, angel investing recently has been very difficult if I'm being completely honest. Okay. I think like when I look at, when I look at the brand, brands that are raising at the moment know that from a macroeconomic perspective, like it's not the ideal time to be raising. That's just like a fact of the matter. Investors are not as comfortable investing in brands, especially the types of brands that I invest in, which are usually either, some of them are pre-mavene. Usually they have some proof of concept but they're like pre-series at. So they might be seed rounds, they might be series eye that I do invest in. But anyways, when I look at those brands that are raising currently, the problem that I'm seeing is that they need the money in order to continue on. And I think that the number one thing, if you are running a brand and you want to raise capital from angel investors or from an institutional investor, the moment that you are desperate, it can be smelt. And I know that that is such a fucked up, catch 22, but it's just a fact of the matter. So knowing what runway you have, raising well in advance of that runway, and doing it as sort of an augment to existing strategy. So saying like, we've got a great thing going, but I could like put some gnaws on this by having an additional 200K from angel investors, strategic angel investors. Those are the types of brands that I look for, which are like, we have product market fit, we have an opportunity, we have clear opportunity for scaling growth. But in order to be able to do that, we need to make key strategic hires or we need to invest in our retail relationships that are already going extremely well, but they want to put us in all stores and how are we going to do that with our existing inventory and end cap situation. So I think when I look at companies when I advise, which obviously not financial advice, but when I tell my friends or people who reach out, what types of brands should I be looking for, you want strong brands. You want brands that don't need you, but they would like you. And the value that you can bring is substantial. That's the other piece that I would say is like, any brand that you invest in, I wouldn't do it just to have your name on the cap table. I would do it because you know you can add value in a meaningful way and it's outsized value. So whether it's putting 20 key into something like poppy, like that's obviously an incredible exit for those early investors, but you don't know that that exit is going to happen. So what's more important is saying like, okay, can I help a poppy get to that point with my skills? And if you can do that and you feel strongly in that, then I think it's a sound investment because you bring like meaningful value, you can actually impact, you can actually impact the end result for that company. And I think too often I see brands or investors, investing brands purely for financial gain or the visibility and they're not true strategics because they're investing in the wrong companies. - Yeah, so to you listening, if you feel like you just listened to an episode of Shark Tank, me as well, I will watch that part over again, but I think it is so good to have these conversations that are on the things that I don't even wanna say gate kept are just like not talked about. Like you think you even just say the word investing and it scares people, you say the word real estate and it scares people, you say gross versus net and people are like, no, I don't know what that means and that it's not for me. So like having conversations like this is so eye-opening and I'm definitely, again, like I feel like I just watched an episode of Shark Tank and I'm gonna watch Shark Tank with a better eye but that is something I've been interested in doing 'cause I love so so many brands and I'm like, that'd be really interesting or I wish they did this differently and then my brain just goes, oh well, that's just not for me or I don't know enough about that and then you just kinda put it to the side but I think if anyone listening, if you are really trying to grow a career, whether it's like your own business, social media marketing, agency, influencer, start looking into this stuff because this is really like how you expand to how you not just like make silly little videos but like actually make it mean something especially with what you talked about and like actually caring about the brand 'cause yeah, the exit could be amazing. I'm sure those early investors in pop are like, very happy. Yeah, very happy. But it was a huge risk, I mean, could you imagine? Huge risk to get there. So again, I love those, these conversations that kinda just like open up or just plant the seed but we've talked so much about sat and brand and all that stuff, I wanna talk about you. I wanna talk about you off the clock. What are you doing on the weekends? Oh my God, it's so funny. We were talking about doing a TV show at work which is not happening but we were talking about it and then we did interviews with the potential producers and I swear to God, this woman yawned in my interview because I am that bored. And I'm so sorry in advance because this is not going to be fun but the truth of the matter is, I have a one year old. I have a husband who I love and is actually my best friend and then I have like my best girlfriends that I like my world revolves around. So weekends are about those people. Like my family's in San Diego, they come up on Fridays and then on Saturday's Sundays we're doing hikes, we're doing walks, we're going to get breakfast, we're going to get coffee, we're going to go run errands but like I'm dragging my daughter around and I'm doing those things. Right, dinners, birthday parties, brunches. And I will say though, if you don't follow Kira already, you should because she's saying all these things like they're so like, I just do this, she posts about them and you're like, well, that is the prettiest thing I've ever seen in my life. I'm like, oh, so she's just running errands but she one looks amazing, your family just looks precious. Vistatics are there, the vibes are there. I'm like, she's really just doing her thing, like walking around doing her thing. So you're saying it's boring but I'm literally I'm sat and like what's Kira doing today and also, and I really truly am going to sound like such a stalker, you have made some amazing relationships with founders and influencers and I follow so many of them and I'm like, oh my god, it's Kira in the background. I'm like, oh, what? Of course she knows her. Of course she knows this big influencer, this big founder, this person I've been following for 10 years, like Kira's really cool, she's being really humble but when it comes to like, I know you said that you have a one year old and you're obviously taking on this huge job, building your career, like I always love to ask, especially moms because I think one being a mom is like the coolest, most amazing, super hero thing in the whole world. I always say like being a mom is the hardest job. Like, just take any big CEO's job and just like times 20 for a mom and you're doing both. So work life balance, do you think that exists? I think that's so crazy. I don't even know. Somebody's saying like, oh yeah, you can 100% balance at all times your work, your career and being a mom. Also, we're forgetting other things, you know? There's like work and then there's being a mom and then you're also a wife. You're also a friend, you're a daughter, you're an aunt, you're whatever you are in your life and like each of those things require its own like dedication and time, I think it's just like important to say like what is important to me? What's important to me today? What's important to me in the long term and make sure that those are balanced because there are days when work completely eclipses my family and I am not home for bath time and I am not there in the morning in order to wake up my daughter and like do her hair. So that's going to be like one day and then another day, you know, it might be like a Friday. I clock out around three and I'm like, I'll come back to it when she goes to bed at 7.30 and then I just come back to it and I finish everything up at 7.30 but anybody who tells you, I was just listening, I'm obsessed with Amagre's new podcast. I don't know if you listen to it. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Phenomenal, you know what, first of all, I was a little nervous when she was like, I'm doing a podcast 'cause I was like, everybody is doing a podcast. She was gonna turn out like and then she did it and I was like, this is phenomenal. Her guests thus far at least have been incredible her episode with Melody Hobson. She talks about this or no, I'm so sorry. She was on Diary of a CEO. She was talking about this as Stephen Bartlett. Yeah, and she literally said, show me a woman who says that you can do it all and you can have balance and I will show you all of you. Show your liar and honestly, I was just like, I was snapping in my car, I was driving home from work. I was like, this is real, this is the truth because you will never be able to do it all. But I grew up with a working mom, my mom's a pilot. So she was gone half of the time that I was growing up. But what I remember is my mom putting on her uniform, walking out the door and saying, mommy gets to go to work but she's gonna miss you. And I say that to my daughter every morning, I get to go to work, I fucking love it. But I'm gonna miss you and when I come home, I'm gonna be yours until you go to bed and that's the best that I can do at this point. And I think as long as I like sit and know that, like shout out to all the working moms because it is fucking hard. - True hard, surely. I'm not gonna lie, I get in the car in the morning and I'm like, wow, I put on my underground rap, I listen to a mortal technique on the way to work every morning. And I'm like, I am me again. I feel like me, I am alive. So I love the, I love leaving my daughter for the day but I love coming home to her and I think that it's okay to see those things out loud. - Yeah, oh my, okay, so when I watched that episode, Dyer of CEO, I was like, first of all, I was like, who is this gorgeous woman? I was like, first of all, I love you. I'm obsessed with you already. - I'm obsessed. - And then I heard her talk. First of all, as an American, we love an accent, okay? And she's a true Londoner. So automatically, I was like, love. And then skims, I was like, oh, I am so tapped in. And that specific one, I'll show you a liar. I'm like, oh, period, exactly. Yes, it is, I don't know where it came from to strive for work like bells. Oh, actually no, I do know where it came from because it is the risk of burnout and the avoidance of burnout. And we've all experienced some sort of it. But I think if you're like looking at like the top people in their game, the CEOs, the multi-six figures, all of that, especially as women, because we know, and I guess for some of them, like it's okay if you don't wanna be a mom, but specifically thinking about like women that are also wanna be moms, and being like, yeah, like that person, like they got it all figured out. Like she has a system, she has a plan, she's good. And then you really like break the fourth wall and they're like, oh, no, no, no. I just crashed out two seconds ago, but I just chose to like get back up again and that, you know what they mean. So for you, priorities was something that you mentioned, is that really like the way that your mind goes? Instead of like, oh, I'm striving for work life balance. It's like, these are my priorities, and this is just what I'm gonna focus on. Yeah, I mean, I think that having perspective when you wake up in the morning, I look at my calendar and I say, like, okay, this is what I have to do today. I have a dinner tonight, or I have a dinner on Wednesday. Knowing I have a dinner on Wednesday, it's Monday morning. I'm like, okay, I'm gonna give my daughter my all on Monday and Tuesday night, so I'm gonna be home. I'm gonna leave it five, be home by six, my nanny leaves at sex. I'm gonna give her everything until 730, and then I'm gonna do my work. Like I'm gonna do no work while I'm with her. I will put my phone to the side. If I don't have a dinner, I might be a little bit distracted. I might be like, okay, well, I'm gonna be home all week, so like I can do a little bit of work on my phone while I'm with her, she's reading a book. I can do emails. So I think it's just like giving yourself grace, but the fact of the matter is, and I think that this has been something that I've been struggling with a lot during hiring processes, for instance, is like, I want how many people, God, I want to give a percentage, but I can't give it accurately. Like there is a good amount of people that I interview, that the question that they ask, again, also in diary of CEO that episode, the question that they ask is, what is the work life balance here? And I so appreciate that our generation cares about their personal, they understand that in order to continue on, they have to prevent burnout. - Yes. - What I think I struggle with is like, you can't want it all. You can't want a career that gives people goosebumps, that gets you on podcasts, that gets you on the cover of magazines, that gets you making millions of dollars a year, and say, I'm never working after five, I'm never coming before nine, and I'm never touching my phone or my email and weekend. Like it is just the fact of the matter is, you have to put in the work in order to get the output. And I think where the unlock really happens is, when you do something you love, sorry, this is so cheesy, but when you do something you love, it doesn't feel like work. Some days are hard, some things will be difficult, some days will suck. However, if you are working towards something that fills you up, fills your cup, and makes you feel fulfilled, you're not gonna mind opening your computer on a weekend. - Yes, yes, you're actually going to want to. - Yeah. - And again, it's not that there aren't really hard days. I actually just went through a bit of a nod experience a few weeks ago. So a few weeks ago, it was a crazy, busy season for me. I had onboarded two clients in the agency. I had one big client terminate their contract, out of the blue, and I was like, oh my gosh, everything. Team member, one of my team members goes to me. I was hiring another team member, and I was like, no, no, no, no, no, I live at home. So I live with my three younger siblings. They're 16, 10, and 5, so love them, but my house is crazy, chaotic, never boring. And something happened to me. I was at Sephora, I was a podcast editor, okay, he's always there, thank you. With podcast editor, I was at Sephora, and I had like, I started to get blurry vision. And I was like, this is so weird, like, oh, this is, I don't know, like, this is just, it's just too hot in here, it's Sephora, right? It's like crazy, there's like teenagers everywhere. So then I'm like, okay, I wanna buy my, my little, I don't know, what was it? Like a house lab splush or something. I bought that, I went home, and then I had like, a really bad headache that I've never had before, and I was like, this is really weird. And so we made dinner together, and I sat down, and half of my face went numb, like tingling, and then my arm went numb, and my fingers, and then my tongue, and my mouth, and I just sat there, and I said, I looked at my podcast editor, and I was like, just my face look weird to you, and he was like, no. And I was like, my body is numb, like half of my body is numb right now. And I, and he was like, do you wanna go to the ER? And I was like, no, I'm just gonna sit. Well, let's just see what happens, a little plot twist. And I was like, I don't know what's going on. Like my body is not responding, it's not happy. It's, I don't know what this is. So after about five minutes, it stopped. I like had feeling again, and I just had a really bad headache. So we basically just like walked me to bed, and I fell asleep, and fast forward a little bit later, I had every single day after that, I had a really bad headache. So I've never had that problem before, and I started to get really dizzy, called my doctor, doctor said you have to go to the ER right now. One to the ER, they did blood work, they did a CT scan, they really treated it like I was, they really, like my doctor was like, this is stroke-like symptoms, and you should have came in immediately. And I was like, oh, la la la, but it was not the calendar, so I could not, could not make that fit in. 'Cause I was just like, it's fine, like it's fine, you know, whatever. So, you know, they did everything, they checked me out, they cleared me, everything is good, thank God, God is so good. But it was a little bit of that, like, there's the limit. There it is, I said, okay, there's my limit, I didn't listen, and I think sometimes especially when you're a really hard worker, you love what you do, you're, quote, unquote, like I have a high achiever personality, sometimes your mind wants to do something, but your body will tell you like, no, we're not doing that. But the craziest part of the story wasn't even that, it was, I had a little bit of a rest, maybe like three days of like not really doing anything, just being with my family. And then on Monday, I said, okay, cool, so I'm gonna create some content, I have this meeting, that one, perfect, I wanna work on a new offer, and I legitimately wanted to do it. Like, it wasn't this like, oh my gosh, this big thing, I went through this big thing. And a part of me kind of wishes that I had this big revelation of like, I think I was burnt out, and because it was, you know, pretty big, but the honest truth is, is that this happened, I'm aware of it, I got checked out, it's okay, but I still woke up on Monday, being like, okay, like time to talk to the girl, these time to create content, time to make a new offer. And I really think that showed me, like I really love doing this, and I hope to everybody that wants to start a business, or just wants to, you know, really excel in their career, it's gonna be both. It is gonna be the high highs and the low lows, one after the other, or even at the same time, but at the end of the day, you'll have something in you to be like, well, there's no plan B anyway. So here I am, and I'm just gonna continue to do it, and I find that so much in people like you, and other people that I look up to is like, they all crashed out, like we all crashed out, but there's just something, maybe a little bit wrong, a little craziness to be like, but I'll wake up the next day, and like, I really wanna finish this. I really wanna see this through. Do you? - That is so inspiring. - A little rant. - No, no, no, no, I love that you share that. I think it's so important to have those types of conversations and just be like transparent about what those hard days really look like. I remember, I remember a postpartum. I was under the impression that I was gonna give birth, and I was gonna be myself. Like I, I don't know, maybe I was just like naive, crazy stupidity for those, but I thought I was gonna go home from the hospital, and I might be a little bit tired, but like I would be okay. I went through bouts of mastitis while I was breastfeeding. I mean, like this might not be the right audience to share this type of stuff, but like I remember, I remember just being like in shock, that my body was not reacting the way that I thought it was. And do you get this like body? You're not doing what I say. - Oh my gosh, you're betraying me and I'm actually getting irritated with you. - Oh yeah, it made me, it made me absolutely live it. And I was like, no, no, no, I don't do this. Like, this is hit me. This is like, I can't not do something. That's not who I am. And I think that that was such a like come to Jesus moment for like a lack of a better term for me when I was like, I am not in control at some points. And like that is, that's your threshold, that's your limit. So I didn't create content for a little while 'cause I was like, whoa, I'm off the planet. This is, I'm off my Richter scale. So I think noting that and being comfortable with giving yourself grace in the upfront is hugely valuable. But the fact of the matter is those types of things are gonna happen to you and you're not gonna have time to plan for them. And you just have to like recognize that they're happening, let them wash over you and determine how you're going to deal with it moving forward. Knowing that that's possible now, how am I going to make sure that I can set parameters for myself and maintain my level of expectation for myself while still having that sort of like softness and grace. And I think that was the first time that I ever realized that I needed to have any grace for myself. And this was probably a very similar situation. That's so crazy that you could go through life being like, no, I got it, no, I can do it. And then you hit that point and you're like, oh, that's my reality check. Yeah. And then it's such a, it's easier said than done. Obviously to have the balance of having grace for yourself, giving yourself time, but then handling this and that, it is truly a skill. So I think to anyone listening right now, please know that you are so incredibly not alone. And all the highs and lows are maybe it won't even say normal, but they are normal in our world. Like they are, they're not this like, oh, like I'm the only person that's experiencing this and it's good to have problems that aren't unique to you. And I think, yeah, like this is such a good conversation to be like, this is like the real T. Like you can see everything on social media, you can see all the wins, you can see all that. And that's not to take away from those things, but everything to get there, just one, it's just not sexy to talk about and no one wants to talk about it. And nobody really wants to pay attention, but they are there. And then the last thing I wanna say is I love what you say. And I know you said not the target audience talk about mommy stuff, but oh my gosh, please. Like I, people think I'm a mom all the time. They're like, you have a very maternal energy. I feel like you just like take care of people. Like your content is like, let me take care of it, girl. I'm like, please. But I also think it's because my siblings have such a significant age gap. So when I posed about my five-year-old little brother, they're like, oh my god, you're a mom. And I actually work with a lot of moms as clients because they think that I'm a mom. Yeah, and I'm like, I love that. To be honest, I am a mother adjacent though, so I think we are one in the same. But one thing, the many things that I wanna save is what you tell your daughter to go to work. That I'm gonna leave, but I'm gonna miss you. I think if I heard that when I was little, I would change, I mean, I grew up with a mom that was going to school and she had me young, but just even thinking about someone that is so strong and committed to their career, I think one of the biggest fears for me, thinking about having a kid or even the way that I treat my siblings is, I never want them to feel like they're second to the business or you don't wanna be that, you know, you see the movies, right, when the parent is just not there, 'cause they're this big CEO and then leaves the child like traumatic or traumatized and all those things. So even just that little thing, I'm gonna keep that in the back of my head and hopefully tell my future children that, but oh my gosh, look how many things we covered from-- - So much ground. - Brand to motherhood, to drama, to nasty in my God, and all the things. So I wanna rapid fire some questions for you to end things off and then we will yap off camera as we will shut-- - Do, yeah, as we should. Favorite seductive piece. - Ooh, I love our airlocks. - Anything airlocks is so, so good. Honestly, we launched it last year. We're launching another fabric next year. - Oh, be my favorite. - My favorite. - Okay. - Can I say that? - Okay. - But for now, airlocks is just like queen, love, everything. - Okay, amazing, a favorite content creator, favorite influencer. - Ooh, oh my God, this is so hard. I love so many people for different reasons. Favorite content creators. I mean, I'm honestly, I'm not just like spouting bullshit, like I love your content. - Oh my God, I think I like gravitate towards educational content. So that's like what I love. Do you know Ashwin on TikTok? He does like brand breakdown. - Oh, yes, yeah, yeah. - Love is shit, love or in, as well. He also does brand breakdowns. My girlfriend Maggie Sellers always does amazing content. But then on Instagram, I'm like, oh no, no, no, I love the aesthetic girlies. - Right. - And I like all my girlfriends create the most incredible content. I think Lillia Dowell and Kayla Sian and Sophie Alcus and Pia obviously, like there's so many girls that say fighter creates like the most beautiful content and then balances it with entrepreneurialism. I love Anastasia's content on TikTok. She's just like one of those girls that you're like, we're friends through the phone. - Right. - We're friends in real life now. - Yeah, we're friends through the phone. - By my choice. - By my choice, I force that. So like, yes, this is my favorite thing to do. I was like, find the content creators that I love and then like get to be friends with them in real life. - Oh my gosh, that's so cool. And again, like yeah, again, I'm your number one stopper. So I do see, I do, I'm like, oh my god, she's friends with this creator that I've been following forever. Okay, something you wish you saw more of in your space. - Ooh, something I wish I saw more of in my space. - Wow, that's, I have a lot of thoughts. I'm so sorry. - No, that's okay. - No, that's okay. - I narrow that down. - I know, these are hard. - Something I wish I saw, can I break it down into a couple of different spaces? - Please, please. - Okay, something I wish I saw more of in the investing space is just a little bit more qualitative analysis on brands. I think that there is a huge emphasis on financials and quantitative, which are so, so important. But I do think that there are qualitative components that can make or break a brand and they should be considered in an evaluation process. And then I think from a brand perspective, ooh, I wish we saw more authenticity. I don't necessarily mean like transparency. I think that there are some brands that transparency works for and there are some brands that it doesn't. I don't think that every brand should be radically transparent. - Sure. - They should have their own values and like that just happens to be said. But what I do think is lacking is authenticity. I think it's why so many brands fail. And I think the problem with the brands that fail is they create noise in a space that could otherwise be directed at a brand that has a heart and a purpose. And it creates this like clutter in the marketplace that I wish we could just like refine and focus on the brands that are worth it. - Yeah. A really important question, favorite snack? - Ooh popcorn. - Popcorn. - That's so easy. I'm obsessed with Garrett popcorn. - Ooh, okay. - Okay. - Okay. - Okay. - Blonde popcorn. - Ooh, okay. Okay, okay. Favorite beauty product right now? - Favorite beauty product. - Ooh, Jen Marini anything. - Ooh, okay. Haven't tried. - Me too. - Her skin care system is like a godsend. - Oh really? - Yeah. - Okay. - I'm like, do I have any pimples right now? (laughing) I'm like, it's so good. - Ooh, okay, adding to car. And then the last question I ask every single guest is what to you gives it girl energy? - Kindness. - Love. - I feel like it's just like if you're a nice girl and you're like warm and welcoming. - Mm-hmm. - That's rare. - Yeah. - In real life. Like shockingly rare. - Right. - That's it girl energy. - Like that. Oh my goodness, thank you Kira so so much. - Oh my god. - Thank you for having me. - I am so excited for people to tune in and to listen. I'm so excited to finally meet you. I already said when I met you, I'm like we have a celebrity in our midst. And to you listening, thank you so so much for hanging out with us and has always break a leg.