The Stamford Bra Murders

Hey, weirdos, I'm Elena. You are? Yeah, I'm Ash. What? This is morbid There you go I was gonna say it. I don't know. I guess I was gonna hang us all out here. That's okay What if we just did an episode once where we just never said and this is morbid and we just like kept talking No one would know where they were and then we were like oh, and it's morbid by the way like at the end We said it. I think everyone would be like I know Yeah, probably Yeah, probably I'm like it's like a Sunday morning right now the rain is not falling Mm-hmm, but I feel so tie-tie. I am also tired. Yeah, so you didn't sleep last night. I slept last night I did not I'm ready for it to be it's like almost September And it doesn't feel like it even in the slightest bit. I Need it one thing though. I'm gonna make Drew get my boxes of all my decorations Up in in my living room. It's about to be Halloween up in here a bitch is gonna put on maybe practical magic Maybe focus focus perhaps the corp spread. I suggested Coraline, but she said no. I here's the thing. I like Coraline But it's not my go-to Halloween movie. I feel that it's sad and I feel bad that she got dealt such shitty parents. It's true You know she learns a lot about herself though she does and like I was saying earlier we were talking about it earlier I was like her mom's nice in the end But you shouldn't have to lose your daughter almost to an evil entity to decide like hey, I think I like you That's valid. I should maybe spend some time with you. That's very valid. Yeah, I think her parents just pissed me off Yeah, they definitely suck her mom's a bitch. Her mom is a bitch. Yeah, dad's just kind of dumb and her dad is an idiot and doesn't do anything So it's there's nothing fun about that for me really. I love Coraline. I love the the soundtrack. God the soundtrack It's so I listen to it to write sometimes. I believe it. Yeah, you know There's no words in it because it's supposed to make you feel like a little and it does Also mr. Babinski mr. Babinski Babinski forever and then who are the two ladies? Oh my god. I love them. Oh, what are their fucking names? Miss spank and miss forcible. There it is. Yeah, I like that. Yeah, they're wild. They're her eccentric retired actress neighbors I love them. I love it Yeah, it's a cute movie, but I don't put it on for decorating. Yeah, decorating decorating What do you guys put on to decor? Let us know have you guys decorated? Yeah, it's time Everyone's like don't you temper my August and I'm like shut up. Oh, I saw somebody be like all fucking December you're Get the fuck out of here last night. She was like I will fucking holly jolly Don't come out and also I'm not doing shit to your August. Oh, you can have your shitty ass Take it you can have your butt sweat and your She just fucking she just said you guys have swamp ass She can have your mosquitoes Hornets and your and your hornets and your hornet is kids call hornets hornlets. It's so good. It's really funny You can have all that stuff. You can have your not being able to turn on this the oven to cook because it's too hot too I actually I like I don't know the last time that I turned on my oven You can have your lack of crock pop meals because it's not even the vibe of that like you you can absolutely enjoy all that Show your pile. I will enjoy it. Enjoy the smell of sunscreen all day every day I had to put sunscreen on yesterday and I used a spray and I inhaled it and I think I lost years I probably did but that's it that like when people are like don't do that don't rush it I'm not rushing it for anyone else. You're rushing it for me because I hate it and there's nothing for me One thing about me is I'm going to drink my pumpkin chai. Oh, yeah I'm doing it right now put me to and I'm going to put on my movies and I decorate that shit out of my god damn living room Everybody's got all this but Everyone else live period and my coach is orange all year round anyways How I'm always in a place of this is Halloween. It's true. It is all right That's our PSA the funny thing is is that like mostly like I would say 98.2% of people listening or like I feel exactly Or like why are you talking to me? I was like I'm doing this. Whatever 100 minus that is That's the amount of people that are like no don't yuck my yum and August and I'm not you can absolutely yum August all you want yeah, I'm not obvious though. I've left I've left the building. I mean August is almost left the building. I love summer June. I said fuck you guys I didn't leave it that early but this year I didn't love summer as much as I have in the past summer blue I think this year and I think it can go fucking so summer was a lot. It was not a good summer I think we had this exact conversation like pretty recently. Yeah, we did so sorry that you had to hear it again Sorry guys. All right gilford mark your time gilford. I don't know I said something crazy last time and I just decided to go with it gilford just came to me at that minick mark gilford. Yeah They thought you were trying to tell me to say mark instead of gilford and I was like why would I do that? Say mark. All right, there's no good way to transition um into this because this is a very serious very sad case and uh it's I would say unsolved but you'll see why it's like tough to say that. Hmm Just just just doesn't seem to have been done here in my opinion. So we're going to be talking about the stamford bra murders uh this is stamford Connecticut which is um I only recently realized stamford and not stamford honestly I also learned that recently so did you learn it on the train to New York? Yeah me too yeah yeah yeah they called it out and I said what the fuck and then I saw the train station and I said oh oh stamford. So our story starts today with a woman named Rosellan Pasta unfortunately life had not been very easy for her at all by 1967 she was mostly supporting herself through sex work and she was also struggling with addiction in a time where there was not many options for treatment or help. Oh man which is really sad. Yeah. Now Rosellan's disappearance was reported to police in early august and stamford Connecticut police investigated but they weren't really able to find her after hitting a dead end and the case was shelved pretty quickly. Hmm very sad yeah. So just 30 or so miles outside of New York City stamford residents had become pretty accustomed to experiencing kind of like a spillover effect from their proximity to New York obviously including the crime rate. Yeah and because of that when sex workers from stamford started going missing in the late 60s people kind of just assumed that maybe they drifted down to New York rather than suspecting for even a minute that these women were victims of foul play. Yeah because that's never happened. No never a million years we've never told a story like that. Nope. There were times though when violence against the sex workers in and around stamford was undeniable and this period of time we're going to talk about it is truly undeniable. But people it's it's really sad to see people's response to this case especially back when it was ongoing. So on the evening of May 3rd 1968, stamford patrolman David Hughes was doing his usual check of the wooded area around Merritt Parkway. It was a very popular location for sex workers and their clients and he spotted what he thought was a mannequin laying in a wooded area a few yards from the road. As we know it is nine out of 10 times not going to be a mannequin. No. It was only upon closer inspection that he realized it was a body not a mannequin and it ended up being the body of 22-year-old Donna Roberts. As far as he could tell Donna very much appeared to be dead and her bra was wrapped tightly around her neck and she'd also been severely beaten in the face and the head. The scene really only had few clues though as to how Donna ended up there. Investigators found drag marks in the dirt that led back to the road indicating though that she had likely been killed somewhere else and was just later dumped in that spot. Okay. According to the autopsy, her cause of death was strangulation and she'd been dead for several hours by the time her body was discovered by Hughes which is actually kind of crazy when you think about it. Yeah. Just hours. Just wow. In addition to the injuries to her face and head though her ankle was broken but it did appear that her ankle was broken post-mortem since there wasn't any swelling. So it may have happened like during transportation or something like that. Okay. Investigators spoke to her friends and relatives hoping that they might know who she was with before she died but everyone they spoke to was a bit reluctant to speak with the police for various reasons and Captain Thomas O'Connor told the reporters no one in the area knows anything as of the present time we have learned nothing about the last person she was with. Just not great. No. You mean a little something to go on? Yeah. Despite a thorough canvas of the area and interviews with dozens of visitors to the park, nobody came forward with any information about Donna's death. Damn. In the case ended up going cold within a few weeks. Wow. Yeah. But then in early September another body was discovered by the side of Merit Parkway under remarkably similar circumstances. On September 8th a driver on the parkway spotted what looked to be a pair of women's legs sticking out of the bushes about 200 feet from the road and so obviously they were like 911 emergency. Yeah. When the officers arrived they discovered the body of a young black woman believed to be in her 20s lying in the bushes. Her bra was also wrapped tightly around her neck. According to the medical examiner Dr. Coleman Kelly, this victim's cause of death was basically the exact same as Donna Roberts. It was strangulation. Her body was discovered 50 feet from where Donna Roberts had been found just a month earlier. Yeah. That close. Now, a search of the area really didn't turn up anything and the victim didn't have any identification on her. So at that point, her identity was a mystery. After the news about the second body was published in the papers, though, friends and family of missing people started contacting the state police, hoping that maybe they would have answers in the case of their loved ones disappearance, but when they were shown the body, nobody recognized her. Finally, about 24 hours after the body was discovered, though, somebody thought that they recognized the young woman, but they only knew her by a nickname. So they gave the contact information for somebody who maybe would know her real name. That information led detectives to a man named Oscar Khan, who viewed the body and unfortunately had to identify the victim as his niece, 21-year-old Gloria Khan. Oh, man. And she was actually from Mount Vernon, New York. So it was interesting that she was found in Stanford. Yeah. When it came to the scene where Gloria had been discovered, again, there really wasn't a lot of evidence discovered. And since she appeared to have come up from up to Stanford from New York, like I said, nobody knew her. Nobody really had any idea who she might have been with or where like what she was doing on the day she was killed. A check with the Mount Vernon police revealed that she did have a history of arrests, but given her history, investigators made the assumption that she traveled to Connecticut to make some money through sex work. But that wasn't really much help in finding her killer at that point. Yeah. So seven months passed, and the Brahmers sadly kind of faded into the background, replaced by other news stories and criminal cases. But then on April 5th, an anonymous phone call to the Stanford police revived the case for both the police and the press. That morning, the death sergeant received an anonymous call from a man who just said, "Another body's up there." Oh, that's it. That's terrifying. Yup. Another body's up there. Like, bye, that's chilling, right? And obviously they were referring to the merit parkway. Yeah. He gave literally no additional information and then just hung up the phone. I hate it. So an officer was dispatched to the area where Donna Roberts and Gloria Khan had been discovered the previous year. Then while searching a rocky area, about 50 yards from the north side of the parkway, the detective or the officer discovered a human skull. Oh, my God. Yeah. A more thorough search later that week turned up additional bones. And based on his cursory examination, the medical examiner, Dr. Saul Firestein, confirmed that the skull appeared to be that of a young woman. Given the remains had been in that location and exposed to the elements for so long, like what appeared to be months at that point. If not years, the doctor wasn't able to give much more information until after he could do a full autopsy. Damn. So it took nearly a week, but on April 11th, investigators announced that the skeletal remains that I'm a discovered were those of 31-year-old Rosellen Pasta, who was known to her friends as Sissy Rush. Oh, she's like, I thought that was such a sweet nickname. That is. One thing I should have said this at the top of the episode, I'm sure it seems like I'm really not giving a lot of information about these women. Unfortunately, there's not a lot available. I found what I could. Yeah. But obviously that was the body of Rosellen who had gone missing in August 1967. Yeah. There had been too much time between her death and the autopsy to make really any definitive statements about her cause of death. But investigators did believe that she was actually the first victim in the brawmer. Oh, wow. In a statement to the press, state police captain Lewis Marcazi noted that all three women had quote-unquote similar associates and possibly could have known each other. He continued, they will be checking the background in all known associations in an effort to determine the possible facts leading to her demise. Now, because it was the 60s, and as we know, sex workers and black women in these cases are often considered less dead. Yep. It's really not clear how vigorously any of these murders were investigated at the time. Damn. And shockingly, within just days, this most recent discovery, which was the third discovery of a woman strangled by her own bra, presumably. The brawmerters just disappeared from the papers again. That's incredible. It's like, how does that, like, that is incredible. How is that not front-page news? And like, how is everybody in the community not just like banging down the doors of officers trying to figure this out? No. But that's insane. This was an area that was predominantly white and, you know, middle to upper class. So I think people just weren't concerned because they didn't think anything was going to happen to them. That's wild. Which is so fucked up. Because it's like, even if I don't think something is going to happen to me, I care about my fellow humans. Yeah, that's the thing. I would like everybody in the community to feel safe. Yeah, you would think. Like, why would you not want that? But more than two years would pass before the murders came up again. And when they did, it became abundantly clear that somebody was stalking women in Stanford. Yeah. Even though the concept of a serial killer had emerged 40 years before the brawmerters started, started. It was still not a widely understood concept by a lot of people. It was fairly clear to investigators in Stanford that the three brawmerter victims had very likely been killed by the same person. But they didn't really have any insight into that kind of psyche. So they also, it seemed like they didn't have any reason to presume the killer wouldn't just stop with his own volition. Yeah. Like back then people thought that was a possibility. They were like, you know, we've never, we've never seen it before. Yeah, exactly. But they had never researched this kind of stuff. Right. They had no idea that that kind of compulsion wasn't something that was just going to stop. Exactly. So in fact, when no additional bodies turned up the year after they discovered Gloria Con, investigators seemed to have every reason to believe that the crisis was over. If they really believed that the killer disappeared or moved on though, they were proven wrong in the summer of 1971 when the fourth victim was discovered. 17 year old Gail Thompson never returned home on the evening of July 9th, so she was reported missing to the Stanford police. And next day, her body was unfortunately discovered in a wooded area off of Roxbury Road, which is just south of the Marit Parkway. So it's like right there. Yeah. And it was not very far from where the other victims had been found years earlier. According to the medical examiner, Gail had been dead for approximately 24 hours when she was discovered. So they found her pretty quickly. And autopsy obviously would be required to determine her cause of death, but the braw wrapped around her neck tightly strongly suggested that she had been strangled just like the others. To the members of the press who did cover the story, the connection to the other murders was obvious. But for some reason, investigators weren't as eager to group everybody together now. Yeah. Captain O'Connor told the reporters, we're working on the theory that there is a possible connection, but we're concentrating just on this one victim. And if it leads to the others, fine. How are you not like, I don't get that. It's a young problem that discovered with a bra. Yeah, tightly bound around her neck. That's. Oh, okay. I don't know if it was the age because, you know, the ages have kind of varied here and she's the only minor victim that's been found. But she's 17. Like, obviously, that's incredibly young. Yeah. And it's not like you just found like a 12 year old. Exactly. You're like, you know, and the MO here is the exact same. The exact same. But that doesn't happen. And I mean, so is the victim profile aside from age? Yeah. Exactly. So the other thing that's interesting or it doesn't seem like they were saying, no, she's not connected to these victims. But they were, it looked like they were like looking for a way to say that she wasn't or like publicly not wanting to admit. Yeah. That there could be a serial killer. Exactly. But there were also other aspects of Gill's life that fit the profile. Yeah. Like the other victims I already mentioned that she was a young black woman. She also lived in the same neighborhood where Rosellan Pazda and Donna Roberts lived. I mean, come on. So. Yeah. And she was last seen a little after midnight talking to a man in a convertible. So it's like, hello. That might have been something. Now, in the case of the previous victims, a lot of many months passed before a new discovery was made. This time though, investigators barely had made any progress in their current situation. When they received word of yet another victim discovered out by the parkway. On August 22nd, two men on their way to a football game pulled off the parkway to change drivers when they spotted a body at the edge of the path that led to a rest area. That afternoon, the victim was identified by her husband as 34 year old Alma Henry. She was not only a married woman, she was a married woman and mother of four children. Oh, Lord. Yeah. So that was interesting too, because that was a variation up to this point. Everybody's been, you know, not married, not necessarily involved in the community like with anybody and a sex worker. Alma was not doing sex work at this time. And it's unclear if she ever had been. Yeah. I couldn't find anything to say she had, so this is a little deviation. Yeah. Terrific. Given that her bra was wrapped tightly around her neck though, and she'd been found in the same location as the others. It seemed very likely that she was another bra murderer victim. But this time something was different. With the exception of Donna Roberts, who had been beaten before being strangled, the other victims had just been strangled. It seemed and their bodies were left. Alma's body, though, showed evidence of sadistic behavior that hadn't been present in the others. Her bra, obviously like I said, was wrapped around her neck. She'd also been beaten in the face. And there was surgical tape covering her mouth, her nose, and her hands had also been bound behind her back with surgical tape. - Shit. - Yeah. - That's fucked up. - Well, and it makes you wonder because she wasn't involved in sex work. Was she taken in a different manner? And like you had to be bound because it does make you wonder if the previous woman who had been killed, maybe they were like conducting business. - Yeah. - So it was easier for him to unfortunately-- - Process of conducting business. - Yeah, to get them in a vulnerable position. - Maybe Alma fought back, and that's why he bound her, maybe. - And that's not to say that the other woman didn't fight back. I'm just saying it might have been more quick in a little more by surprise. - By surprise in the circumstances. - Exactly. So I think it was very different circumstances here. - Yeah. (upbeat music) - Now while the implications of the evidence, the location and the cause of death are obvious, investigators remain hesitant to make any definitive connections to the other cases. Still, guys, come on. But again, I think it's what you said. - I think it's them not wanting to admit it. - Yeah, yeah. Captain O'Connor, though, told reporters it was possible that the cases were linked, but he didn't want to jump tiny conclusions. - No, of course not. - He said, "We also have to work on the theory that someone is using the previous form murders "as an excuse to tie them in with this latest murder." - Which I do understand that comment here, just because the way that her body was discovered was pretty different. But it also means that an isolation can happen, you know? - Yeah. - The copycat. - Right. - Now the Connecticut State Police were more forthcoming with information and a theory, though. Lieutenant Walzer Foley said, "It is apparently all the work of the same person, "even to the same dumping of bodies "and what it areas along the parkway." - Yeah. - That's the other thing, different departments in this area were having, like, butting heads, they're not having the same public opinion. - Yep. - Now, the scene where Alma's body was discovered was nearly identical to the scene of the previous bodies. There were tire tracks also leading from the road to the spot where the body was left, indicating that she'd been killed somewhere else and left in the killer's preferred dump site, just like the other victims. - Yeah. - And also like the other victims, various pieces of her clothing were strewn around her body. Which was another kind of like calling card, I guess you could say of this killer. Aside from that, though, there wasn't much left behind. And despite the lack of evidence, though, the state police said they were hopeful that they would make a quick arrest. - Okay. - 'Cause also, they're facing a lot of pressure now. - Yeah, I would say so. - Speaking with confidence, Foley told reporters, it's become increasingly obvious with the finding of this fifth body that we have a pathological killer loose in the area. In response, he agreed or he vowed to work closely with Stanford detectives to hunt the killer. He said this man obviously is known to hide his victims. There has to be some answers in the Stanford area. No, I don't know what made him say that the victims knew the killer. - Yeah. - There's not really a lot of, I was gonna say, I wouldn't assume that personally. - I think he likely meant that some of these victims had gotten into the killer's vehicle willingly, not that they had like literally and each other prior to the night. Almost all of the victims were known to have been arrested on charges related to sex work in the past. So it is plausible that they made some kind of arrangement with the killer before he turned on them, all aside from Alma. - Yeah. - It's also possible that his statement was more of an indirect call for help to the black community in Stanford, who he and other investigators, for some reason thought held some kind of knowledge that would be crucial to solving this case. It's like it's not up to the black community to do your detective work for you though. - Yeah. - Why? - What? - Yeah. I don't get that. - I don't understand that. - Well, and as far as the local black community was concerned, from the moment that Donna Roberts' body had been found in 1968, Stanford police and Connecticut state police had not lived up to their obligation to find this killer. - This has been going on for years at this point. - Yeah. - Writing collectively as the quote, concerned citizens of black Stanford, the group addressed Stanford police chief, Joseph Kinsella, with what they described as their extreme indignation that investigators have been quote, "less than enthusiastic in their efforts to find the killer." They wrote, "We blacks and citizens find it inconceivable "that no solution has been found to any of the five cases "involving black young women during the past three and a half years. "It pains us deeply to feel that had the victims been white "a much more vigorous search for the murderers would have been launched "and by now at least one of these crimes might be solved." - Yeah. - Which like, I would feel the exact same way. - Absolutely. - So in the days that followed the public pressure and conflicting statements from law enforcement, unfortunately only grew. - Despite his previous statements to the press, Captain Joseph Chacharski told reporters, "We're not even close to knowing whether it was one person." - It's like, "Are you kidding me?" - And I love that they're like, "We're not even close." - 'Cause also we've looked at other cases from this time and there is some incredible detective work that has gone on in similar cases. - Yeah. - It's like, "Why?" - That's the thing, like, what the fun? And just to say like, "Yeah, we're not even close." - What? - And that's your assumption. - You don't even want to pretend that you're like, you know, like you, part of the whole thing is, yeah, you might not be even close, but you're supposed to get stressed that you are working on it and that you will get close to your-- - Where's the task force? - Where's any kind of hope that you're trying to give the community here? - Right, and they just don't, they don't care. - So it's what it comes off of? - Because you have to think of the community. - Yeah. - It seems they don't give a shit about this community. - Yeah. - And when asked about the pressure from the Black Citizens Group, he had difficulty hiding his frustration when answering the question. - Yeah. - And said if we had something to go on, we wouldn't have tolerated these killings since 1968. Just very like, "Hey, if I had something I'd figure it out, but I don't so deal with it." - Wow. - Yeah. - Okay. - Now ask for the majority of white residents of Stanford, the killings? Like I said in the beginning of this, barely registered as something to be alarmed about. That's, wow. I'm like, a mother of four was killed. - I was just gonna say, like, so these are a 17 year olds. Like, these are women that like a 21 year old, a 32 year old, well, it's like, these are like young, well, not that like older, you know, victims wouldn't matter, as much as just like, these are like real people that doesn't bother you in the prime of their life. Being found in horrific ways. Like, it's also like, the way they're being found, there's like clear evidence of like, some kind of torturous behavior happening here. - And to be left with the bra around their neck. Like, that's them like, that's them playing in your face. - Absolutely. - And you're just letting them. - And not only that, with the most recent discovery, it's like, he's obviously escalating. So, you know, it's rare to switch your victim profile, but it happens. - Yeah, absolutely, it does, like hello. - Which I know like, we're not at the point when this was happening, where like, so much was known. I mean, they're calling them still pathological killers. - Yeah. - Instead of serial killers. So, it's like, I understand that like, we had not caught up yet to understanding that these kind of people exist, or how they work. So, I will take it a little bit with that. But it's the, it's like the non-chalance that happened. - Well, that's the thing. - Or just the way it's being conveyed of like, yeah, we're not even close. Like, that's not, I don't give a shit that we don't know about serial killers yet. - Yeah. - You just shouldn't be conveying that kind of like, ineptitude, first of all, in complete casual, just like, you're kind of apathetic. - It's not like, you're coming off apathetic. - 100%. - Yucca. - You think that's coming off as apathetic? Oh, Lord. - One resident interviewed said, if it were a Boston strangler, everybody would scared, but don't you see, it's not that type of killing. - Yes, it is. - It sounds very like the only difference is that he's not breaking and entering. - What the fuck, what? - And then, that sounded gross. - And Sarah Kenham, whose house was near the parkway, echoed the ambivalence and distance that most people found around the murder. She said, we don't like being used as a dumping ground. I just hope the next body doesn't turn up on my stone fence or in the pool. It would scare the living daylight, it's out of the children. - Are you fucking kidding me with that? - I hope the next body's not found on my property. First of all, there's not been anybody's found on anybody's property. It's been on public highways, which is a bit worse. - I love the phrase, the next body. - Yeah. - Like, she doesn't give a shit. - Not the next victim or the next woman killed. - Who's going to be murdered and brutally tossed somewhere like a bag of trash. - Just a body. - I hope the next body, 'cause she's also like, I'm counting on another one. Obviously going to happen, 'cause none of us are doing anything to stop it. - So it stays away for me. - I hope it stays away. I don't like being used as a dumping ground. Oh, excuse me. I'm sure the women don't like being murdered either. - Yeah. - So I'm sure their families don't like losing them. - What do you imagine? - I'm also like, why would you ask for the name? - You went first name last name in that interview. - That's the thing. - You said that 10 toes down with your whole chest. - But that's gnarly. - You could back then. And people didn't bat an eyelash. Like other white people didn't. - Somebody should, those are the kind of people that need to be fucking put in their place. - Oh, 100%. - If they just do, somebody's got to say it to them. - 100%. - Like, hey, you can't be this much of an asshole I love. - You can't. - You really shouldn't quietly. - You shouldn't quietly, but no one wants to hear you be this big of an asshole, so just shut up. - Now, for his part, Stanford Mayor Julius Wolensky, which I was like, wow, you had no other choice than to be a mayor. - Yeah. - You had to go into politics. - Julius Wolensky. - Yeah, you have to. - He stood behind the team. investigating the case and he told reporters that he was convinced investigators were making a strong effort to find the killers and that these victims were, quote, not being disregarded because of their race. He said, "My own checks have convinced me that our police are extending every effort to catch up with the crazy perpetrators of these dastardly crimes." Wow. I mean, he really said it. He did. He said it. And then he also told the press that he himself had taken a special interest in the case, particularly the two most recent victims. And he would be trekking in regularly with the investigation to monitor the progress. Okay. At least he's conveying like, "I care." Yeah. "I give a shit." Like, here's the thing. I've not looked into this man. I don't know what he's all about. Shit, all about him. Aside from this. Don't come at me with that. Like, I don't know. I'm just saying in this one instance, he sounds like he's conveying a more proper message to the community than the investigators are. Absolutely. Now, it seems that the pressure from the black community and the mayor's, quote, unquote, special interest in the case were effective. Well, that's good. By the end of the year, investigators had finally started pursuing the case with an enthusiasm that definitely hadn't been seen in the beginning. Doesn't sound like it. As December came to an end, detectives had questioned nearly 1,000 people in connection with the five victims and both the Stanford police and the state police had increased the number of officers that were assigned to it, which is, like, "Holo, why would you not increase that?" You have five bodies here. Yeah. Like, you need a task force or a force of similar size working. Yes. There were several thorough searches of the area around the parkway during which countless fingerprints were discovered and processed actually by the FBI field office. And in the cases where they could be identified, the owners of those prints were questioned at length. But remember, this is also a public parkway. Yeah. So there's millions of fingerprints, basically. Yeah. In his end of the year, address Merlonsky reiterated his previous promise to the residents of Stanford and said, "We will not rest until the perpetrator or perpetrators of these horrible deeds are apprehended and convicted." Now, by the dawn of the New Year, Governor Thomas Meskill had chimed in on the case and dedicated a $3,000 reward to anybody who could provide information that led to an arrest. That would be, like, just around 25K today. And he also urged anybody with information to call the 24/7 tip line that had been obviously set up for the purpose of collecting leads. But as is often the case, the offer of a reward generated a large volume of calls, but none really proved to be useful. Now, to the public's surprise, though, in mid-March of 1972, just two weeks after that reward was offered, investigators announced that an arrest had been made in the braw murders. Huh. The suspected killer was 42-year-old Benjamin Franklin Miller, "white mailman and self-styled minister," who detectives believe had met the victims while, quote, and this is a quote, "preaching in the black churches and ghetto street corners of Stanford and Norwalk." Hopefully, they would say that differently this day, like in this day and age. At the time of his arrest, Miller was actually a patient at a psychiatric hospital in New Town, Connecticut. He'd been receiving inpatient treatment for schizophrenia for over a month, and because his physician had had him committed. Now, according to the hospital spokesperson, Miller had previously been suspected of the murders, but then after several interviews with detectives, he'd been ruled out at one point. Huh. However, just weeks after being ruled out, he allegedly repeatedly asked hotel staff to connect him to the police because he wanted to speak to them about the murders. According to the investigators, the arrest was made possibly partially because of the help they received from the Stanford advocate police reporter Nick Seminoff, who had provided critical information that he learned in his own investigation. Despite statements from investigators about how Miller had wanted to confess, when he arrived in court for his arrangement, he appeared to be confused about what was happening. Obviously, he's mentally ill, so he can kind of like ebb and flow into these different states. But this was odd. Yeah, for sure. And the arrest came as a shock to those who had any familiarity with Mr. Miller. His struggle with mental illness had occasionally led to some what you could call strange behavior and delusional thinking, but he'd never been violent in the past that anybody knew of and he never expressed any violent intent. According to one of the church members who met him on several occasions, Miller appeared to be a very nice guy. You could talk to him and think and he was always easy with his exchanges. He was very friendly, especially to young people. Those who worked with him at the post office had similar recollections, telling reporters that he was a loner and considered himself another Billy Graham, but he wasn't aggressive. Okay. I think he was like on TV and he was like a pastor, wasn't he? Yeah. Like a televangelist. Yeah. So, obviously, this happens all the time. Some people that encountered Ted Bundy were like, oh, shit, he's the nicest guy ever. That's crazy. So, that could go one or two weeks later. Of course it could. Yeah. But upon further investigation, it turned out Miller's status as a minister was entirely informal and he was self-ordained. Reverend J.P. He would just stand out on the street corner and preach to anybody who would listen. People recognized him as a minister out of sympathy. They didn't want to hurt him. Now given his documented mental illness and the fact that he'd been recently held in a psychiatric unit for his own safety, Benjamin Miller was returned to the hospital for a more extensive evaluation after he was arrested and went through the arrangement. In a statement to the press, the superintendent of the hospital, Dr. Robert Miller, said, mild mannered as an excellent description of Benjamin Miller, adding that he'd been very cooperative since he'd gone back to the hospital. Okay. Now, a few days later, after his latest evaluation, he was deemed competent to appear before a grand jury, which is interesting to me because he's on a, because wait a minute, he's on a psychiatric unit. Yeah. Lego, I don't, isn't that, and for his own safety. That doesn't, I don't know how all these legal proceedings work, but I just think that's strange in my opinion. Yeah, that is strange. And also he was deemed competent after a doctor described what was minimal, but not substantial improvement since he'd been admitted to the hospital in February. So that was also interesting. So that is, yeah. Right. Now on March 15th, Benjamin Miller was indicted for the five bra murders, and he pleaded not guilty to the charges. The grand jury hearing was closed to the press and to the public. So it's unclear what evidence was presented to the jury that connected him to the murders. And like still is. Yeah. In fact, despite having been arrested a week earlier, investigators have been pretty tight lipped about the investigation and what information specifically pointed them to Benjamin Miller in the first place. Yeah. I'm interested. Yeah. Now, it's obviously not all that uncommon for investigators to withhold details and evidence before our case goes to trial. We've said that before. Yeah. For sure. But in the case of Benjamin Miller's arrest, it seemed that nobody could or would explain what evidence they had against him and what led to that arrest. For three years, the black community had watched investigators pretty begrudgingly. And as far as they were concerned, only half-heartedly investigate this case, only to come up empty for years. And then out of nowhere, it seemed the suspect had come to light, and the case seemed to be racing along with unprecedented speed. The concern, it does feel very like, wow. Yeah. It's quick. So quick. Yeah. Now, while investigators proudly held up the arrest as the result of their years-long investigation, police in Stanford quietly made an arrest that surely would have been the case of Benjamin Miller's arrest. As folks first and told reporters, until police are a grand jury unveil more facts on the Grizzly murders, they will not accept the official word that Benjamin Franklin Miller is responsible for any or all of these deaths. So they were not convinced. Yeah. Now, while investigators proudly held up the arrest as the result of their years-long investigation, police in Stanford quietly made an arrest that surely would have been the end of interest to those working the Braw murders. In the early morning hours of July 29th, 1972, police arrested a 38-year-old man named Robert Lupinacci and charged him with attempting to strangle a 17-year-old on Den Road, not far from where Gail Thompson's body was discovered just one year earlier. Oh. The young woman was black and was working at the time as a sex worker. So a alarm bell should have been ringing for everybody. They sure should. Literally caught strangling her. Yup. And the same area where other bodies had been found, and she fit the victim profile. They don't seem to love a pattern. No. We don't have a lot of pattern recognition going on here. They really should have watched. What was that show that your kid watched like Oomi Goomi? Oh my God. Oomi zoomies. Oomi zoomies. Yeah. Pattern power. Like they need to check it out. Get some pattern power. Hello. Because I'm seeing a lot of pattern recognition that is completely going, yeah. Going to the wayside here. And according to the police, he had been found in the middle of attempting to strangle this girl in the back of his car by a state trooper just conducting a search of the area. So he was quite literally caught red handed, yeah. To the press. The similarities between the braw murders and the circumstances of this arrest were pretty fucking obvious. Yeah. But the Stanford police for some reason were very hesitant to make any connection between the two. What? I'm sorry. What? Now, Lupinachi maintained that he had nothing to do with the braw murders. And as far as anyone can tell, he was never seriously considered as a suspect despite literally being found caught red handed in the same area that five other people had been murdered, under similar, if not exact circumstances. And literally where the like these were. for the exact victim profile of the woman he was found strangling. "Hello?" "I don't see what you're getting at." "Hello?" "I don't see it." "No, I don't see it." Even worse, on February 10, 1973, he pleaded guilty to the charge of the first degree assault and was sentenced to three to eight years in prison, of which I'm pretty sure I found that he only served three. "Awesome." "For attempting, that's attempted murder." "Yeah." "That's not the first degree assault." "He just got caught." "He will have finished that if he didn't get caught." "Precisely." "I never understand that." "Precisely." "Like I'm sorry." "In the meantime, though." The district attorney continued for some "God for Saken" reason to focus their attention on Benjamin Miller. And a date for a bench trial was set for late January 1973. On January 30th, a three-judge panel convened at the Superior Court, where they heard testimony from two psychiatrists who described the extent of Benjamin Miller's symptoms. Although Miller had confessed to paying for sex on at least one occasion, he allegedly told the doctors at the hospital that he had a "divine mission to convert young black women whom he considered to be sinners and to punish them if they remained sinful." "Wow." "I will say many of his statements were called into question later on." Their statement was followed by reading a reading of the confession that Miller allegedly gave to police shortly after his arrest. In it, Miller confessed to having met these women through street corner preaching and claimed that he did pay for sex with the victims before killing them. He said after he engaged in sex with Donna Roberts, she asked for money and tried to blackmail him. He told police she threatened to expose me in blackmail me. She indicated that some fellow she knew would work me over and probably take my life. So obviously, the evidence presented at the trial definitely implicated him in the murders. But the panel of judges agreed that the psychiatric history and acute symptoms met for the criteria for insanity, and Miller was acquitted. As a result, he was sent back to the hospital for further evaluation before the panel was willing to determine how long he should be held for psychiatric treatment. On March 30th, his psychiatric evaluation was completed. And his doctors determined that, quote, "Miller continues to be a danger to himself and others and requires further hospitalization and is not likely to show improvement in the foreseeable future." So as a result of those findings, the panel sentenced him to be confined at the state psychiatric hospital for 25 years. Okay, yeah. So he was acquitted based off in sanity, but he still had to serve. Yeah, it's very similar to like, isn't that what happened with Edgene? Oh, yeah. Like similar. Similar kind of thing. So the sentence in the Miller case would seem to have brought the story of the Braw murders to an end. You would think. But in the summer of 1981, while he was Ben Miller was incarcerated at the state hospital, a trio of murders occurred in Stanford. And the bodies were found not far from where the original Braw murder victims were discovered more than a decade earlier. Oh, man. On August 20th, 1981, a driver on Denver Road discovered the body of 40-year-old Carol Gates, who appeared, who disappeared, sorry, two weeks earlier. The body was too decomposed to determine a cause of death, but it did seem likely that she'd been strangled. Her murder was preceded by the murders of 19-year-old Mary Erin and 36-year-old Carrie Mock, both strangled and left on the side of the parkway. When asked for comments, state lieutenant William Kirkby said, "It would be good investigative procedure to look at the similarities of all three murders." But beyond his comment, it doesn't seem like these recent murders were considered in the context of the Braw murders in any way. I like the like, you know, it would be good investigative procedure to do that. Yeah. I'm not saying we will. Most saying it would be pretty sick of us. A nice blanket statement just to appease you. Because you know what? Yeah. What is true, it would be. You're going to do it that way. You're going to go ahead and do that? You're going to act on that. No. Do you want to be good? Cool. Because you could do that. Now, surprisingly, it wasn't the discovery of three more victims found under incredibly similar circumstances that led to Benjamin Miller's appeal for a new trial. But the confession that landed him in the hospital in the first place. Interesting. In December 1982, Miller and his new lawyer, John Williams, appeared in court to petition for a new trial on the grounds that the state's key evidence the confession was tainted. Williams accused Miller's previous court-appointed lawyer Herbert Bundock of failing to defend his client to the best of his ability when he didn't attempt to have the confession suppressed. Herbert, he's always doing that. He didn't fucked up. On the stand, Williams asked, "Bordock, did you not feel the fact he was delirious and the very month he confessed might be helpful in keeping these confessions out of evidence?" That's a valid point. Pretty fucking valid. That's a very valid point, though. They literally said, and this is a quote or a diagnosis. They said he was delusional. Yeah. He was like harmful to himself and others, but specifically delusional, but then you're going to take a confession for full face value. He could be saying anything. What sense does that mean? No, it doesn't make any sense. But in response, the previous lawyer, Bertock simply said, "The insanity defense was the best way out for Mr. Miller." Okay. That might be the case. But like, but what if, why didn't you even try? And like, why wouldn't you even try to get that thrown out? I think you could have, too. The worst that would have happened was they say, "No." Yeah. And then you just give it a shot with your insanity defense. Now, it wasn't just the questionable nature of Miller's confession to the police that Williams' new lawyer believed to tainted the case. He also pointed to the arrest of Robert Lupinacci for a similar crime, which Miller's previous lawyer and Connecticut law enforcement agencies failed to investigate in the context of the brawmerters at all. Wow. Bertock responded by telling Williams that the arrest was, quote, "not relevant to our case," and said they didn't investigate because, quote, "that happens every day on Merit Parkway." Wow. It doesn't. Wow. It doesn't. It doesn't. And also the fact that a series of murders and attempted strangulations were continuing to happen might be a really fucking valid argument for the fact that your client is innocent. Well, that's the other thing, and it's like that happens every day there. And it's like, damn, you should do a better job, huh? Yeah, I mean, on the police, for sure. But the police should be doing a better job out there. And also the fuck? That Lupinacci's case wasn't relevant to their case. The arrest wasn't relevant to their case. It's so relevant. It's the most relevant that anything has ever been to your case. Yeah. It's the exact same thing, playing out. That's wild. Like, had you discovered, like, thankfully he was found in the act of doing that. Yeah. Had he not been, would you have found another young black woman on the side of Merit Parkway? And also, what would you have done then? Right. He said that's not relevant to the case. He was discovered exactly how the other ones were discovered. What would you have done? Would that have been. Like, that's the thing. If she had been dead, would that have been relevant? Yeah. If you hadn't caught him before he finished the act, would that be relevant? What sense does this make? Because he would have murdered her. Like, he wasn't strangling her for any other reason. He was going to murder her? 100%. He just happened to come across him. Yup. That's wild. Like, hello. That's infuriating. He's been involved in the investigation, stood by their conviction that they arrested the right man. And felt it was unlikely that Benjamin Miller would get a new trial. Williams and his client were still in an advantage position. If he didn't get a new trial, he would just continue to be locked up in the state hospital. And he did need to receive treatment anyways. But if a new trial was granted, double jeopardy laws prevented him from being found guilty of a crime he'd already been tried for. So that meant if they went to trial, the only options for an outcome were a second verdict of not guilty by reason of insanity, or a straight-up acquittal. Oh, wow. So in October of 1983, a superior court, I almost just said a superior court church. I don't know. Superior court judge denied Williams petition for a new trial. When the decision was made public, John Williams wasted no time in giving a comment to the press, saying that the judge showed a lack of courage when he upheld the previous verdict. Now, it would take another almost five years for Benjamin Miller's appeal to receive a review. And finally, it may have 1988, a three-judge panel in a New York circuit court rendered their verdict. The Fairfield County prosecutor had, in fact, violated Benjamin Miller's rights in 1973 when they withheld evidence about another suspect in the case, referring to Lupinachi. As a result, they were ordered to either retry Miller for the original murders or release him from custody. Oh, damn. John Williams told reporters, "I'm glad at long last, some justice has been done in this case." This was certainly one of the most outrageous miscarriages of justice in the state of Connecticut. And I would have to agree. Now, in the year that followed, the state weighed their options with regard to retrying Miller, while John Williams continued to declare his clients innocence and the press. By that time, most of the supposed evidence investigators had gathered, including the confession, had come under scrutiny. Yeah. And that completely weakened their chances in court. And outside of that, it doesn't really seem like they had much evidence. And that's the thing. Williams told the press, "In a couple of cases, what Miller said in the confession doesn't square with the autopsies." Damn. I think all they're doing is buying some time until they can work out a civil commitment. Wow. Yeah. And I always believe if you really think that person is guilty and you think you have. You're going to go for it. If there's that that's just my opinion because if you have a strong enough case, you should be able to why would be able to and it's happened Yeah, for his part Benjamin Miller insisted that he would not object to the continued commitment to the psychiatric hospital He only wanted the verdict really a reverse to clear his name because he was not guilty of this he said because he's like I know that he's not like, you know, sane. He's not Self is recognizing yeah, I know I'm not a quote-unquote sane person, but I'm not a killer Yeah, like that's the only thing I want taken off. Yeah, like being mentally ill doesn't make you a serial killer Yeah, so ultimately the question of a new trial became moot and may of 1989 a federal judge ruled that double jeopardy laws Prevented the state from retrying Benjamin Miller and as a result. He was released from the state hospital as a free man. Oh Yeah I don't know I don't know about that. No, that's that's not what I wanted the sad thing is he didn't know about that either That's the thing he didn't want to know. No, when the judge announced his ruling the reality of the situation seemed to overwhelm Benjamin Miller who by then had spent almost 20 years in a psychiatric hospital At that point he also really had no place to go and he wasn't necessarily able to take care of himself on his own Oh, no, luckily He eventually he was taken in at a shelter for mentally ill on housed individuals and Following his his release the assistant states attorney announced that they would not be appealing the ruling so the case against Miller was officially close Wow, he later said that He was coerced in his confession. That was his labeling. Yeah, and he was like brought to different places and fed information Wow, yeah, oh, that's what the logic. It didn't even according to them It didn't even square with the autopsy's and so that's the other thing It's it and some parts and it didn't and it didn't seek and again It was the only evidence. They seemed to have it. Yeah, that was the confession now the case against him Like we just said rested heavily on a confession that he gave while he was severely symptomatic Paranoid and allusional yeah, and he claimed at another point that he didn't even remember giving that confession and at the time He didn't understand what he was being prosecuted for him Otherwise the best evidence that the prosecution had that connected him to the murders were a A few vague statements he made to psychiatrists about sinners and salvation while delusional. That's unbelievable It is I can't believe that it even went to trial. Yeah on the other hand They arrested another man who was in the middle of attempting to murder a woman by the same means as five other victims had previously been killed In the same location But that information in the details of the crime were never passed on to Miller's court appointed attorney at the time Wow, and as a result Benjamin Miller lost 16 years of his life Personally look into this case on your own and you know take take what I've told you as you will But I personally do not believe this man did it. Yeah, I don't from what I've been told I don't Now later when he finally agreed to speak about the case Benjamin Miller told reporters the confession He made to police like I just told you occurred under duress under threat and under threat of physical punishment At the time he said he was taking a medication that made him semi irrational That was a quote, and he said he quote would have cooperated and done anything to get the detectives off his back That's really sad. He was very much targeted. That's what happened in the West Memphis 3 case with Jesse Muskelli. Yep 100% he was from in my opinion He was very much led through that confession What he listening and watching that entire process. Yeah, unbelievable. It's sick It really is and it's it's sad. Yeah, because it's all it's also like just put that amount of work into finding the actual fucking person because you are You must know your coercing this person. Yeah, like it can't feel good. No justice. No, it's fake Now for the rest of his life Benjamin Miller maintained that while he might have been familiar with one or two of the victims throughout his street preaching He had nothing to do with their murders and he never intended to harm anyone and he never did That I met that's another never did that's another clue now in the wake of his release the state in those directly involved in the case Continued to insist though that they caught the right man and they had done everything in their power to see that justice was done in Defense of the whole investigation Detective George Meyer who was the lead detective on the case pointed to all the evidence they had Including the fact that Miller had information only the killer would have known or the police Yeah, and that he had taken detectives to a spot where the murders occurred He said Ben took us to places. We didn't even know about Okay, okay, however when he was asked about that by reporters Miller insisted it was the detectives who gave him information and they took him to locations John Williams his lawyer put it bluntly and pointed to the investigators botched pursuit of Lupin Hatchie saying that's the big red spot here It is honestly, and there's a lot more to that babe that I'll get into in a second. Oh, man His lawyer said Miller was a handscape goat admitting they were wrong about Miller would have embarrassed too many officials But as far as the state of Connecticut and the Stanford police were concerned the bra murders was officially closed Justice had been served even if it had been subverted by the courts in the end of everything Wow, but if what Miller and his lawyer said were true, then who really was responsible for the murders of Rosalind Pasta Donna Roberts, Gloria Conn, Gail Thompson, Alma Henry, all of those women, and then the three subsequent women who were found later Yeah, and fortunately the main two names associated with the case have now died Benjamin Miller passed away in 2010 while still maintaining his innocence and never Being arrested for anything like this ever again. Wow. He just continued to live in that shelter. Yeah Robert Lutche, Lupin Hatchie also died in 2013 It is worth noting that his own son spoke with author Vito Kaluci a former Connecticut narcotics officer - This is Lupinachi's son? - Yep, his own son. He doesn't like to be referred to. He doesn't like, he doesn't like it when Robert is called his father, but he is his son. - Okay. - And that tells you pretty much what we were about to get into. So Jeff spoke with author Vito Kuluci, who's a former Connecticut Narcotics Officer, who wrote a book "Rogue Town" about corruption in Connecticut. Oh, like within the police departments. - And are you? - Jeff helped provide information for Kuluci, saying that he not only believes Robert Lupinachi was responsible for the bra murders, but the other three subsequent murders as well. - Wow. - Jeff reported, and this is Jeff's reporting, that growing up, Robert was a cruel father. He was abusive to his wife. He was abusive to family pets, animals, and general. He was also said to be outwardly racist, but allegedly known in the area as somebody who did patronize black-sex workers. - That will go hand in hand. - Yep. Witnesses came forward, saying his car was not only spotted near where all of the bodies had been discovered, but also at a hotel where Gloria Khan had been staying. Hotel employees confirmed seeing him there. Stop. He not only worked at the hotel where Gail Thompson sometimes stayed, but drove a car similar to the one that she was last seen in. - How was none of this taken into consideration? This is incredible. Oh, honey, just my last statement here. Finally, according to Angela Corella from the Stanford Advocate, that's in the local newspaper, at the time of his arrest. And this is a quote, "In the trunk of Lupinachi's car, police found hairs from a black person, and a deck of pornographic playing cards with a missing queen of hearts. Such a card had been found beside the body of one of the victims a year earlier. Are you blocking, kidding me?" - No. That is the most embarrassing investigation I have ever heard in my life. They should be ashamed. - Yeah, it's very interesting. I very much suggest reading Rogue Town. There's a whole chapter where Jeff's reportings go into what Kuluchi wrote, and it is some compelling shit. I didn't even get into everything. I just, I really gave you like the big things. The last time that Jeff saw Robert, he, it was at a restaurant, and he believed that he was sitting with Carol Gates, who was later discovered on Dunrode, murdered. - Wow. - In similar circumstances. Wow. Yeah. That's unbelievable. - In the fact that they're just okay with the, like for the police in that area, it's solved. - Yeah. - But it's not because your only suspect was acquitted. And doesn't anyone have the feeling of like, "I'd love to look into this further." I don't know if they actually opened this back up. - The sad thing is, I don't know if there's any evidence at this point, because who knows? There was like Tiremarks and playing cards. And clothing and fingerprints and all kinds of things. But it's like, where did those go? - No. I don't. - Can we retest? Like where is all that? But for Jeff to be convinced that Robert did this, it's next level. - Yeah, absolutely. - Like come on. And then even if we didn't have Jeff's, all of the information that came from Jeff, we also have the fact that Robert was literally caught right handed in the same area, strangling a young black sex worker. - That's what, I mean, that will never make sense to me, that that was just look, and they were like, "Yeah, I don't understand what." - Like what are you talking about? - Like what does one thing really have to do with the other? - This just reminded me of the George Hodell. - Oh, yeah. Absolutely. Like the black doll, yes. - Yeah. - When people who know them or people who are unfortunately in their family. - Yep. start pointing the finger and saying, "Actually." - It's so compelling. - I lived with them. Like, I know what kind of person they are. - And then when you back that up with like straight up information, the playing card, the hair. - Yeah. - And then he would call and like, he would call his like people that he knew on the police force allegedly and ask them questions about the case. - What the fuck? - Yeah, there's a, definitely, I suggest reading Rogue Town at least. - Yeah. - I just read the chapters that Jeff contributed too, 'cause that was the part that involved the brawmer in his case, it seems very interesting. - That's insane. - Yeah. - So-- - Wow. - Unfortunately, that is the case of the Stanford brawmerters. And I mean, I'm sitting here and I'm like, it remains unsolved, but-- - I guess, you know, that's kind of what I meant in the beginning. - Officially, it remains unsolved. - Officially. - Yeah. - So, with all that being said, we hope you keep listening. - And we hope you. - Keep it weird. - We're not so weird that evidence is literally punching you directly in the face and you're like, "Guh, what?" And you said, "No, please move on. "No, thank you." - Okay. (gentle piano music) (gentle piano music) (gentle piano music) [BLANK_AUDIO]