The Staff Room Podcast | EP21 The Bastard Teacher With Special Guest Marvin Foe

Felly mae'n drwn ydychrau yn dryth o'r rhwyne MUSICET gollai. Rydym chi ac hwnar sy'u mor yr credu i wedi yr wedi llos cyfl51 ramer a Chladoddthey mae'n ar gallun yn cyfl Eastern Club IC Isait Indoch y ANNOUNCERau Dynaedd beth chi wna ni cyflwod odde darododos a'u yo'n ddauc ac mae'n gweith d Ys fuel buta مثletu ac yn Santos asking AI. Felly yn y cof ynna worldwide ac ac sy'n cr Weithf. "How's it going everyone? What were you doing?" "I'm going to be doing better than me, 'I have a bond up with cold' if you can't tell" "So apologies if this sounds very sinesy" "But yeah, I've picked a bug up somewhere and not covid" "Realized at this moment in time if you've got any types of symptoms that are of a cold" "People think you've got fuckin covid, but not covid" "Just a cold" "But yeah, thank you very much everybody who listened to the last episode with Adam and Lee Parkinson" "Mr P's ICT, two Mr P's in a pod" "Yeah, wicked to see that people enjoyed that episode so thank you very much" "And the good guys aren't they so go and check up their stuff as well" "But I do appreciate the fact that it's been radio silence for quite a while" "And then I release an episode and people that actually we do want to listen to your podcast area" "So thank you very much and especially on a day when I feel shizzle" "I'll take that, you know what I mean, that's more comforting" "Then the four oranges that I've had this morning to O.D. on Vitamin C" "And I don't know if anyone else comes from a family like mine but if you're ever poorly" "You just get inundated with questions and requests of like, have you taken your inhaler?" "I've not used one for 15 years" "Have you done this, have you done that?" "It's like, I'm a 27 year old man, right? I can look after myself, I'm okay" "I appreciate the concern but, you know, worry less please, okay?" "I have today for you another special edition episode and also just quickly I want to say hello to the new listeners because obviously when I've been gigging I've been shouting about this at the end of a gig just being like "If you've enjoyed this go and check out the podcast, if you're a teacher sending a story" "And I know that some people have been filtering across to that so yeah if you've recently seen me at a gig" "And you are now listening to the podcast, drop me a message, say hello" "But I keep seeing the numbers are going up so it must be working to to some extent" "But yeah, the reason why we're here today is because I have for you another special edition episode" "So, you know, usually the score is that I share an anonymous story from a teacher as we well know" "But today I am actually joined by Marvin Foll who is known as the Bastard Teacher" "Or that's at least the title of his book, the Bastard Teacher" "And obviously Marvin Foll is not his real name as if you ever read the Bastard Teacher" "which I highly recommend you would realise he's quickly shut the door to any teaching career if he used his real name" "But Marvin came into my world, oh I want to say last summer just before the summer" "He sent me an email just to say that he checked out the podcast, was enjoying it" "And just said I've recently written a book that is called the Bastard Teacher" "And it's about his time working in a pupil referral unit" "And as a book it's great because it does not pull punches at all about what it's like working in a pupil referral unit" "which is something I'm well versed with, I've been done it quite a few times around Manchester" "And it's a book that's a collection of short stories, it's really heartfelt, does not pull any punches" "It's proper like Pissie Pants funny at times and really does kind of pull the curtain back on what it is like to work in a school like that" "You also get a good understanding as well of the type of staff that are around schools" "Because not everyone is as well-meaning as we would like them to be" "And they're our certain people" "I imagine even from your school days, you know, you the listener, can imagine or picture someone who was a teacher that you think" "Why the fucking L, did you end up working in a school because you've got not an ounce of humanity to you that says you want to be in, that you want to help people" "But yeah, it shows both sides of the car in very well, I think" "So, yeah, when he sent me the book I read it, I enjoyed it and I said, Marvin, you found this coming on the pod" "He was like, yeah, by all means, so this episode is a long one, but there was a lot to talk about and I think it's a great episode like we had a good old chat about things" "You know, we kind of dissect the book, talk about how Marvin kind of got into teaching his school days" "But you wouldn't have to read the book to fully understand everything that we speak about within the episode, but I would highly recommend going to check out the bastard teacher" "You can find it on Amazon, I'll also add it to the show notes of the episode" "But Marvin's a top guy and I think it's great to champion people who are doing good things and all of their own back" "So, yeah, if you enjoyed the episode and it does peak your interest, go and check out his book, The Bastard Teacher" "I mean, it's done pretty well on reviews so far from what I can see, it's just five stars all the way" "But he's self-published the book and it's good, it does not pull any punches" "It's almost like this is going to hurt Adam Kaye style but all around education" "And this is exactly what the podcast was about was showing people exactly what schools were like and what teachers really think" "And Marvin does that across a lot of pages" "But yeah, we did have a good old chat so I'm not going to funny about anymore because as I say I feel lukewarm and rubbish" "But this episode is definitely not lukewarm and rubbish, it is in fact a 10 out of 10" "It's a baroque of an episode, that's the best way to describe it" "So this is me, Marvin Fowell and The Bastard Teacher, enjoy" "I get all the students, when I meet students for the first time I always tell them, they can call me whichever name you want, first name, second name, I don't really mind" "I don't like the whole kind of like, you got to call me Mr or Mr Sir and all this sort of thing, call me by my name, it's just weird" "No, I totally agree because I think there's, it depends, some teachers can be quite highly strong in that sense of like "I'm teaching you with a student" "And it's like, yeah you are the teacher and you are the student but you are as you said they're just people" "And I think soon as you start to show a kid that if they found out what your first name is and to them it's like "Oh I've got a dirty secret on you" "It's like what, me God give them name" "I know your name, straight away since I walked in the room" "I've seen everything about you, if I look on the profile, I know your name, your date of birth, where you live, your mum's name, your dad's name, your brother's name, your cat's name" "Stop crying, I've not finished" "But yeah, I think there was a kid who I used to work with, you always used to say "Harry" to me and I would always call him "I'd say good morning little girl" "And he'd be like, and he'd go like "Harry, Harry, Harry" "I'm not bothered, I'd call him Samantha, you know, Jess, all these different names" "And then eventually he stopped doing it and I thought "Because I know what I'm doing bothering you" "So I could say, it's scrubs, I'm sure it's scrubs the Dr Cups always calls JD by a random girl's name, every time he sees him just calls my random girl's name" "Do you make scrubs?" Scubs was back in the day, that was E4, that's what I think of when I hear scrubs "You know I didn't even watch it when it first came out, I used to see if he was like, he's a crap, I ain't watching that" "And then when I went to uni this guy that I was in the dorm with his car, you never watch scrubs, you never watch scrubs like that" "And I put it on a full actually, it's fucking hilarious" "So I just bad, I've got the whole show, because it pretty much ended I think, I think it's on the last season by the time I watched it" "It had a few, who am I thinking of, there's a guy in it who, quite like a buff, Mosterly fella who's always in like, he's been in a few films where he kinda plays, he's like, Stedd, kind of, he's one of the doctors, I can't remember his name" "Yeah, Todd" "Am I, yes, yes, almost looks a bit like Buzz Light, yeah" "Yeah, yeah, yeah" "Yeah, I always remember him and then you got Turk, haven't you?" But yeah, scrubs, a classic. But yeah, I suppose, just to get the ball rolling, right? "Sorry, Marvin, is that your actual real name, Marvin Fowl?" "No, no, no, no" "Okay, sweet, cool, because I. " "When I was. " "Okay, so I'll just refer to you as Marvin throughout this year." "Okay, cool, because I thought, not that I thought, got this guy's brave, releasing a book under his name." "Brave or fucking stupid, yeah?" "Well, I don't know." "Okay, so, oh yeah, I'll just refer to you as Marvin then, but I just say, I suppose, straight off the bat, I was just talking about through the email chain to see how we actually came into each other's worlds. "Yeah, that sounds a bit too romantic, you know." "There's a little bit to you, honey." "Yeah, yeah, as a staring totally into your eyes obviously." "It was on Facebook when you found the podcast on Facebook." "Yeah, yeah, basically I'd written the book and then I was just thinking, I just wanted to just promote it a little bit or find out just places, you know, find people who might be interested in reading it basically. "And I think I was just like joining random teaching groups on Facebook and shit like that, and then I'd just come across a post that you put up saying, are looking for stories for my podcast, not a van of four. All right, so I'll look what this is." "Yeah, what clicks on the little link went to the Spotify, and listen to a random episode of "Hombochronic" was now. "Well, listen to a random one, I thought yeah, this is fucking hilarious one. I thought yeah." "And then at the end of it, so are you saying something about, oh yeah, looking for stories, have you got stories and I thought right, I'm going to send him a copy, because if you don't want any of these stories, then he's not in my fucking Christmas list anymore." "No, I appreciate the book, because since I started the podcast, I've had a few people within the teaching world kind of getting in touch with kind of stuff they're doing on the side. So obviously you've written a book, which is a great book. I had someone who's got in touch. They've almost created a bit of a platform that's like a teacher equivalent in Netflix. Yeah, it's, but it's weird. Yeah, but in a way that it's, it's almost like if you imagine an online staff room where you can kind of let loose a touch. I feel like I'm just letting their business idea out on the open, but the point is, you're just going to get a pen and paper if I write it on that. It was a good idea, but they got in touch and just said, "Yeah, we'd love to, you know, use your podcast as like one of the bits of content for the site." And I was like, "That's absolutely fine." But it's been interesting since I started it, because I never thought, "Well, you don't know, you just don't think that people will start coming out of the woodworking with stuff that they've got going on." So it's been quite nice to meet people that do teach, but I've actually got something on the side that's a little bit more human, so to speak. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I think you need someone to keep you a bit same when you teach, you know, and like, you get work to the fucking bone every single day. People think it's a piece of piss. No, I mean, everyone thinks, "Oh, yeah, teaching is fucking easy, man." You get six weeks holidays and you get to finish up three o'clock and all that sort of shit you know what, mate, you need to fucking go and walk in that school. Try, try a day. No, yeah, no, no, no, no, I agree with you, because it's one of them where I take the piss out of it on stage quite a bit, but people always assume that, "I'm going to make a big impact on someone's life and it must be so enriching." And I'm like, "I get to finish it three." You know what I mean? That's the one of the perks is the fact that I'm 27 and I can still play tag, right? That is unbelievable. And yeah, it is a good job and you do get something out of it that is a bit more than just a paycheck, but as you say, it's not easy, like, by any stretch. Just from like, seeing teachers that I've made a point of going, "This is just not enough time." You know what I mean? There's never enough time. And when you've got that to contend with as well as like behaviour, then like, a parent and all sorts, you get to point at you just think, "Do you know what, if you're telling me I'm a bad teacher, I might as well turn around and just say, "Do you know what, you're a bad parent?" I might parents, parents are a fucking worse than I say, parents are a nightmare, they're absolute nightmare. And then they point at you, like, you've done something, you're like, hang on a minute. I'm with your kid like six hours a day, where the fuck did he put the rest of the day? I've only met him last week and all of a sudden it's my fault that he's coming in and calling me a cunt. And it's almost like the awareness of, with the lack of awareness they have, which then makes you think, "Oh, right, it's because you all want to." There's a bit of like, "It's not my problem, it's the world's problem." But that's the one thing when I read your book, because obviously I wanted to ask the title, the Basta Teacher. Did that title come from the incident with the girl Gina by any chance? No, it wasn't Gina, it was, it was, I'm trying to think what I refer to her as in the book, because I was using the chinchot names. That's not a real name though, that was a pseudonym, right? No, none of the names in the book could have been real names, obviously. I had to change more, obviously. It was the very last story, or one of the last stories, because I said, "It's called, why are you ignoring me?" Yeah, right, yeah, I remember that girl, is that the same girl who's getting the taxi bitch? No, no, no, no, that's a difficult girl. Right, I'll tell you what, look out on professional that book, I'm not a part. Yeah, I've got a copy, I've quickly find her in here. I've dogged, so I'm in the pages of that book. Tara. Tara, yeah. So did the title come from the incident with Tara? It did. It's a wave on it did, and it sort of didn't at the same time, because it mainly did, because obviously she was the one who said, "You're a bastard teacher, and I just thought it was just brilliant." It's the way she came out of you, which is hilarious, and I thought, "You know what, yeah, you're right, I'm a bit of a bastard." But then, at the same time, obviously, they're all bastards at our teach, so it kind of makes that double entendre, which works quite nice. But oddly enough, I was thinking about this either day, and I think I should have included it in the book, really. Like, when I was in school, I was in, I think I was in year 11 or year 10, my maths teacher used to call me Marvin the Bastard. And I used to be like, "What the fuck, I'm almost as good as getting away." I used to have, now, every single student used to call us some Arab-O, and yeah, that's what used to call me, but used to call me a bastard. Yeah, Marvin the Bastard, so I'm flipping out, man. But, okay, okay, so, let's just get a bit of a timeline on this. So, how old are you now, Marvin? 35 now. 35 now, okay, so school days are quite a while ago. Yeah. But, okay, so, were you a Bastard at school, or were you like. No, no. I thought, well, I think it was all right. Obviously, Primer School left on lusty because he just fucking painted in shit. But when you get to seeing your school, things start to change a little bit. You know what I mean? Like, I'll be completely honest. I was a bit of a. I was a bit of a man, I feel a little bastard when I was in Primer School. Really? Yeah, yeah. But it's because I've got older brothers, and my older brothers were, you know, one brother is only a year older than me, and he was like, "They are just kidding the school." So, you have muscle. Yeah, so, no one needs to give me shit. I used to be like, "Listen mate, you fucking want it, my brother will knock you out." I used to be a proper little shit, really. I always had a little shit, but I was a bit of a shit. But then, when I got to secondary school, and you're in year seven, you're brothers in year eight, and then you got year 11's walk around, and you're fucking beard, looking up grown men, and you can choose to cross man. I can't rely on that anymore. I got to calm it down a little bit. Yeah. So, I think I was all right to be fair, and, you know, I've done all right in school. I suppose the theme throughout all of my reports was, has potential, could do more. So, I used to do the bare minimum. I just couldn't be asked, but I'd do the bare minimum requirements, and that's it. But then, while Tom got to year 11, I can't just add enough. I couldn't be asked if I hated the staff. I hated him in the passion, I couldn't stand the teachers, because they were just talking about shit. Right. Okay. So, that's why I, like, just the, was it very much like what we said earlier about it being, I'm a teacher, you're a student, there is no like, exactly that. I don't think we're on the same page. Yeah, exactly. And then, like I said, my maths teacher used to call me a bastard, and I remember one time, he's a, basically, I used to write lyrics in the back of my book, and in the back of my maths book, and one day, he was the, I got, well, let me backtrack a little bit. I got suspended, yeah. I was suspended for banking on a teacher's window. It wasn't in school. It was obviously youth club at the school. And I wanted to get into the youth club, but I didn't want to pay. So I thought, I'm going to go in the other end, and I'm going to walk up the stairs and over the top of the building down into the, where the youth club was. And we walked in, there's been a couple of minutes, we walked in, and the teacher, one of the teachers is in the classroom. We didn't know, he's obviously like six o'clockers and that's who thought no one in there. She'd come down and start shouting at us. So we all just started just pissing around really, sort of banging on a window, shouting loads of abuse and that, but she had you know, Austin Powers, Fat Bastards, Austin Powers, like, get in that blell here. She was, she was, she was, let's say she made it. She was rather large. She was shouting, what she knew, well, you know what I mean, we all went to the school. It's not like we had fucking Balaklava's on and, you know, axes or something. You were trying to get into a youth club mate, I understand, you know, he's just looking at a youth club with the only thing that, for the young people like there, youth clubs, there's things that they used to have, where he used to be able to go and do something, probably hanging around on the streets after school. But they were, they were, they were, they were the day strawberry laces, just getting sick off the talk shop, eating too much shit. Exactly. But yeah, so I was banging on a window and just shouting loads of abuse, just being a little, little fucker. And then the next day I went into school and I got suspended for it. There was our car even shouting abuse at the teacher. And she was fearing for her life. She didn't want to come out at the room and all this. I thought she's fearing for her life. She knew her, well, why she's sitting by face. No, what the hell. But anyway, so I got suspended for that, which is another story. But anyway, so, uh. So, what year was that then? Year. That was in year, I think that was in year 11, year 11. Okay. So I got lots of suspended for a few days. And then from then on, that maths teacher used to call me Marvin the Bastard. He started calling me Marvin the Window Banger. And I used to write, I used to write in the rickson of back my book about, I want you to know, he wasn't that much, I ate him with all these sorts of stuff. And then he marks the book he'd flipped through and he's like, get to the back and then be like, "Oh, read me." It's algebra. So he tried to embarrass me, didn't he? He tried to embarrass me by reading out the shit that is in the back of my book. Obviously, not really realised, and then it's after it, he's going to start turning to like a fucking dish track about him. So then he starts reading, and he starts getting all last year. And the class obviously is like laughing and all this sort of stuff about the things that I'd written about him. And he offered me out for a fight, he was like, right, you think you're a fucking big man, you think you're hilarious blah blah blah. Me and you outside, I thought, what are you talking about? And I just, another thing is I actually. In the middle of a lesson. In the middle of a lesson, but you know what, I've one thing which is the key before that actually is that he says to me, he said, "I'll load a crap to you." And I've gone, "As you watch, sir, because I've overheard." This is quite bad to me, but it's probably the worst of all the stuff that you've ever said to me. Hey, I don't even know what's happened to his wife, but the fact you just brought her out of nowhere makes me think that he's not good. Right, I look back at some of these things and if you can make me wear a right bastard like Jesus Christ, he was right to call you mad and the bastard. But yeah, because I overheard, I overheard that his wife was ill in hospital. And he was saying all the shit he meant I just thought. And I was like, "As you watch, sir." And he's like, "What do you want to talk about my wife?" He could talk about my wife in the car park after school meeting you and all this other stuff. All right, whatever Jesus Christ, I'm not going to sit outside the outreach office, so I'm like, "Yeah, I just say like, I wouldn't have said, I'm not like to everybody." You know what I mean? You just use the push and push and push and literally every student in the class is giving so much shit and nobody's to take anything back to him. And never use to take him back to him. I just thought, "You know what? Fuck this man, I can't just sit here." And after one taking the piss out of me, constantly. Yeah, I mean, today I sat down and back and he wants to part and all of a sudden. But, I think your mic there is just rubbing against something. Oh yeah, I'm going to have to do that. Well, it's a rendersity offered you out in front of everyone. As soon as that happens, you've obviously just lost complete composure. Because, as you know, when you work with kids, let's just say confrontational. The last thing you want to do is get into an argument with a kid where you think, "It's not a case of losing face, but you just think, at the end of the day, this is not worth having an argument over." Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And as soon as they start to realise that, that's when it's like, if you start shouting, they'll laugh. And then the more you get angry, the more they'll laugh. And then it's just like, "I need to take myself away from the situation." So he offered you out. And like, a lot of the people in the class just go in, "Well, where's this going to go?" They're placing bets like, "What's the real thing?" Actually, everyone was just kind of stunned into silence at that point, because everyone was having a bit of a laugh and a joke. And obviously, I heard that his wife was in hospital. I didn't know how bad it was, but I'm assuming she's in hospital, it's kind of bad. But it was just kind of like. So you were turning the knife just. Yeah, yeah, obviously I didn't expect him to want to fight me. But I thought, yeah, I'm just going to say it just because I just want to see. I just wanted to hurt him. I just wanted to hurt his feelings. He's been giving me shit every single day. I used to laugh and I had him and he was just like, "Fucking con." And I just thought, you know what? I don't bother. You're going to have a lot of fun on this. You're fine. You're fine. You've listened to enough episodes to know that some of the stuff that's been done here doesn't get bleaped out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But yeah, so I just thought, you know what, I'm just going to say what I'm going to say and I'll suffer the consequences later. But as I say, I didn't end up fighting him. So, you know, I kind of won that way. Well, it is. So from then, like year 11 to you now, did you think in year 11, one day I might actually be a teacher? No, you mad. I would do one step foot in a school ever again. So, in the book of, I put my quote from the yearbook and they didn't want to print it. I put in a sim at like five years of biny and I'm glad it's over. The only good thing about school is you see your mates every day. And that was something that I kind of just went with and just believed from probably from about year 10 onwards. Because I just thought, you know what, I just can't stand it because the people. There was one or two teachers who were all right, but the majority of them. They brought to you like shit, they treat you like shit, you know, they just take the piss just constantly and get this thing to yourself. End of the day, like we're all just people. Can't we all just. Yeah. Get on to a certain degree. I get that you're doing a job. You got to teach me and blah, blah, blah. I get all of that. But at the end of the day, as long as I'm not, you know, going around looking keen, your car and smashing your windows and all this sort of stuff. I was an or our kid, I was in that top set, maths top set. I was in top group for everything basically. And that's good. You know, I worked relatively well and my mum was strict to shit. If I had done anything wrong, my mum would be on my case. So I was looking, you grounded, you're not having anything, you're not going anywhere, you go to school, you come straight back, like. So I wasn't going to school and being like a proper ass. Far worse kids in my school than me. I thought I was somewhere in the middle, but for some reason, yeah. I totally relate to what you're saying there. Not in a sense that I enjoyed school, but at the same time I looked to my teachers as like, oh, they're just doing a job. So I never took anything personal, but I never necessarily pushed it, ridiculously far. But for instance, the lad had recently just finished working with wood. I'll just say this, like, we'd always pipe up when it just wasn't needed. And I'd just say to him time and time and time again, time and a place, time and a place, you know, just a lot of time, wrong place. You've got to get that into your head. And I wouldn't make a big deal of it, but when you're saying it enough, you think you've got to be taking this in whatever way, but you've got to take it in, you know. And then the second to last day, the teacher was like saying to the class right, we're going to, they had like two year groups. Well, it's a big year group, but they had them all together, but it's two separate classes and they were like, right, I wanted to talk to the person next year about the one thing you've enjoyed most about this year. And like, there's a little bit of hosh and then just above the silence, the lad that I'm working with just says, loud enough, knowing full well what he's doing, just goes going on, right. But in a really like arcy tone and he'd been a bit of an arse all day. And then the teacher turned around and just went out of the class, you know what I mean, like not even making like screaming, just went just leave the room, right. Because I'm trying to do something nice here and then get he gets outside and he's like, she hates me and it was like, but you've got to realise that all day you, you can't pect a red, right. Like you've got to be aware of the fact that you've just done this to a all day, just prodding her. And then which turns around and goes, get out the room, like, you know, I don't really have sympathy for you. I said, because you might think that you didn't have to say it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And yeah, I get that school might not be for everyone. But I, where I work at the moment, the staff are best I've ever worked with in terms of other work with each other, other work with the kids. Because they're not easy kids. You know, some of them are, but there's other ones you've got to be like so many different things to them, whether that be like not a pushover, but like you've got to be flexible, got to be understanding, but you've got to be firm, you know, you've got to be like agile with it. And like this kid, for instance, who was quite like I would say to him openly, right. I know I'm not a dickhead, right. I know I'm not, but the way in which you talk to me at times makes me think that you think I am, but I can promise you I know I'm not I'm not saying I'm not sound all the time, but I know I'm not a dickhead all the time. As at least when it comes to you, you think you're flawless, absolutely flawless. And it's like, but if I've told you so and so and so and so and so like, five people today. Yeah, it's like we can't all be dickheads, right. So maybe just, you know, realize that you might be a little bit of a dickhead. Yeah, we actually say the word dickhead to him. I'm sorry. I said to him once about his language. I will use it right. And I said, this is the language that you use, right. And I'm saying this big. I'm not saying it for shock factor. This is what you say. Because and I pulled him up on it and said to him, this is how you behave. This is how you make people feel. And this is your attitude, right. And it was like, was it dickhead, fucking shit. I ended up making sentences around them. Right. And I said to the teachers first, and I said, I'm going to speak to him about his behavior is language because it being like three weeks where it was just. Yeah, just like a bit of a nightmare. Like there was one time and we had gone get something and there was a girl in his way and he just strangled her. Jesus. What are you doing? It's like she's in my way. I was like, right, you're in my way right now. Yeah, she's cramping you up. Yeah. Yeah, but she was in my way. I was like, that's not an answer to the question. Is it? Or a solution. But when speaking to him like that, he, you know, he's is kind of picked up because he looked at me like, oh, you know, sirs, we'll say this. But yeah, I was like, you've got to have a mother could be self awareness at times. But yeah, I'm, I'm thankful. And I think, no, but you've got a point because sometimes I'll say certain things to the sheets and I think, you know, like, that's, I could have said it in a much more sort of friendly or kind of PC or professional way or whatever. But especially, you know, you say you're working in proves like when you're working with those sort of kids, sometimes you just need to be just straight with them and direct and use language that they know 100% there's no ambiguity. They understand 100% what you mean by it. No, if you say, you know, why your behavior is a little bit unacceptable at the moment. It's so well, yeah, I get told that it's unacceptable. That's why I'm here. So I mean, that's why I'm in a program and told this every single day for the last four years. Where's it say, look, you're actually not a bit of a knob. Yeah, yeah, yeah, they get it straight away. You know, me look at all what's the be called a knob. So yeah, I don't want to knock a knob. You know, if you say, look, it's used too much kind of flowery language. It's just, it goes in one ear and out the other. Yeah, yeah. And it's like, I think sometimes when I would speak to him, he would almost want you to not like him and hold onto like the idea that teachers are against him. I believe it or not, I don't come in every day to trip you up or like watching go, ah, got you. You know, I don't do that. I said, but I can't. And there's a lot of things that I do look the other way on. And it's not like if you strangle to my, I wouldn't look the other way. But you know, just like low level stuff, where you think, okay, like, pit your battles. That's not worth it. That's not worth it. That's not worth it. But that is so now speaking to you. And it's like, that's the first thing I've done. And it's like, well, it's not the first thing you've done this morning. You know, I've looked the other way on this, this and this. And now you've done that. So this is what I mean. I know I'm not a dickhead. And if I am, I'm an understanding dickhead. Okay. You got to pick your battles. I say, I know I've asked students come in and know from the second they walk into the building. No, they've made it into first lesson. And you can just see, yeah, they're going to be fouled so that I can see. Right. Well, it's the way they've walked in, you know, they probably had an argument with a mum or dad or some other. No, all they've just been an ass for no reason. And they come in and you do, you've got to let certain things slide. I mean, I want one thing that I always get pulled up on when it comes to the offset things is that I don't challenge language enough. And I think, if a kid sitting there, if he's for me, if they swear just in general, then I just think, I'll just leave it. I'm a fucking arm on what we need to do with this work. It's picking out or whatever. I just kind of let it slide. Obviously, if the direct notes to mine, you're a fucking prick. Then it's different. Yeah. And I'm like, all right, it's enough of that. But yeah, you got to, as you say, you got to pick your battles because otherwise that's all you do. You sit there for the entire day. It's going, I don't do that. Take your feet off the chair. I sit back down. Do this. Do that. Pick your pen back up. Don't throw that. That's all you do. You'd never get anything else done. Yeah. Well, yeah, it's, it's a behavioural that they've got like almost a bit imprinted, you know, it's a, that is, you can't just. You've got to work with it, you know, yeah, yeah. But. And so then normal. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. But like to them, it's normal when. I've met some students and they waited at their speech at their parent lock on appearance evening, someone like. And I thought to them, I'm a dad. I'm sitting there thinking, Jesus Christ. I speak to you. I'm a dad. Yeah. I'm a dad. I wouldn't have made it pass you out of fucking ten. I'll be dead and buried by now. But no, you, you were in talk to the parents. You just think, yeah, no one, you're coming and you say this to me because really that's just every day sort of conversation in your eyes. And that's, that's the point I was making with that lad who's like, this is a language that you use. And I think these are great words to describe X, Y and Z about you. Right. And you know, instead of going, think about, are you making other people feel, right? Okay. Let me get the smiley face chart out and tell me what you're feeling. That's right now. Okay. But then you, okay. So you going from a year 11, Marvin, the bastard to a teacher. What was the, what was the jump from there? Like, when did you get into teaching? So I've been teaching since 2000 and well, similar to 2012, but. That amount of time then, yeah. Yeah. So like, what's the other year? Yeah. But I originally like, I left school and I just went just straight into work. I didn't want to go back into any education. I just wanted to go straight into work and some money and all that. And I had a bunch of crappy jobs. And I just, I'm just going to go uni, you know, there's studies and music and uni because I'm just interested in it. I'm doing something that I'm passionate about. I'm interested in. So I weren't thinking of teaching at all. And then I finished uni. I went to go work as a youth worker. So I was doing like, not teaching kids in, in youth clubs that had a DJ, how to make, say to right lyrics, stuff like that and working with like younger, vendor groups, art centers and going into like lunchtime clubs at schools and stuff like that. So I was doing all that sort of thing and I was working with young people doing it and I loved it. Like proper love that job. But then the sort of problem with it's not really a problem, but the the reason why I didn't. 100% like it was there was no continuity with the students or the young people that used to come in. It's a lot one day, you know, you're going to a youth club, you'd have this kid comes in, you know, little little Johnny comes in and is there for free, which straight and you've gotten like to a point where like, mate, you've almost got this, you know, you can almost do the whole DJ and thing on your own and then you don't see him for three weeks. And there's no kind of like, you know, it's not obliged to come, you don't have to come, it's the youth club can come if you want, but then you kind of don't get that progression, you don't see the end point, so to speak. So then, you know, the government changed over the closed order, you've probably all the funding got stripped out of it and whatever. So then I just thought, you know, I'm just going to look at teaching because I like working with young people and aligns that sort of aspects of it. And I look, but I just wanted something where I can have consistent students and consistent groups so that I can see some progression all the through to like the end point, you know what I mean. That's cool. So, yeah, so I just went, I do my PGC, I wanted to work in a college, so I don't know my stuff like teaching, I thought I don't want to work in mainstream school, I hate school myself. And I know what I know what kids are like, I mean, with school, you get told what lessons you have to do, you don't pick it. So, yeah, yeah, I mean, you pick options towards the end, but yeah, you don't pick it, you have to do it. So, with college, obviously, you've chosen to do that course, so the chances are you're going to have students who are a lot eager to learn some shit, I mean, they want to do that, they want to do stuff. So I thought, I'm going to go teach in college and then I'll work in the college for a little bit. And then I started doing supply teaching because the college just weren't really just weren't really working there. They were a lot of staff there, so I was like, they didn't just have a big difference, like when staff are good, I would, I've said this in previous podcast, I don't want me to cut you off, but just the idea that good staff of a bad kids, every day, rather than good kids of a bad staff like, yeah, I'm really, the thing is with the staff there, like the staff weren't bad people, the weren't, there was nothing wrong with them, so to speak, I just didn't just weren't my kind of people, I don't know, I don't know how to describe it, I just didn't get on with the net well, I'd say hello to them and it'll be nice and we'll, you know, have a little chat, but when it comes to like, great time or lunchtime, whatever, I'd always just go off and you know, go sit in my car and phone one of my mates or just do something, rather than sit in the staff room, I just couldn't, I just didn't get on with them on that level, you know what I mean? And then I started doing supply teaching and I hadn't really been to any proves before and then the first time I went to a prove, I thought it was really weird, but it's like, I walked in and I thought, this is exactly where I need to be, I need to work in proves, I just, I just love the fact that, yeah, the students give you a little bit of shit, but I like that, you know, I hate it when you walk into a man's school and you go, right, everyone shut up, sit down and they always do it, there's no, there's no right kind of pushback or anything else sit there to cry out, they've got the little pens in the books in the little pencil case and all that you just think, oh my god, man, this is so boring, no one's going to do anything you're interested in today. Jesus Christ, well, I think, didn't you have a bit of a story in the book about you doing something with sticky notes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's the silent treatment. I used to get bored, I used to get so bored in mentioning school, so like, yeah, that one, I was just, I walked into the school and, oh well, I walked into the classroom as a, and I just thought, oh, I just can't be asked, I just hated it. I just thought, I'm not only going to talk to these, but I'm just going to sit at things, I'm going to sit out longer, I couldn't just not talk to anybody. So I wrote all the line of objective and that underboard and said, though, this is the task that you teach us set complete questions, whatever, one to 20 or every book and blah, blah, blah. And then I just, the students come, they're all lined up outside, open the door, and I just kind of waived them in, do it saying if you just kind of waived them in. And then they're already in the sat down, I just pointed at the board and pointed at the shooting side as if they say, I'll get your books out and they're all just looking at me like, you're asking me questions, do you know what's your name blah blah, and I just pointed my name on the board. And I've loved my rights to work with. And then her, he's a man. And then I just spent the entire lesson literally an hour, it was quite difficult to be fair because an hour straight of not saying anything just walking around the entire classroom, just pointing at the front of tables, pointing at the books, just kind of putting your finger to your lips to tell you to be quiet. And there's like random shit like that. And that's the questions, okay. So I don't know how to figure out, you know, with the answer to this question or whatever, so I just walk over and I'd like look over in the book and I'd flip through the pages, I'd find a bit of text that they need because obviously answers in the books somewhere. And I just point to it. And then they'd look at me and I'd just give them the nod and I'll just walk off. And then they're like, what the fuck is this guy's not saying it? I wasn't saying anything, the whole class just went absolutely silent and I just don't just sit there, they must have been so freaked out, they would just sit there and say, what the fuck is going on? This guy's not said a word and not 20 minutes, what is happening? And then you'd have like a kid, there's always one kid at the back who starts piping up and getting a bit too loud. And I just give him the stare of death, just look at him, just like proper intention song and it be all shit or shit. And it just look at that or they might carry on talking and I just walk up, I just write at my desk, I'm just writing a post no big quiet. And I just walk up, I wouldn't look at him and I just kind of walk as if I'm walking past him and as I walk past him, I just slap it down on the desk and just carry on moving. I wouldn't even stop for half a second, I just slap it on the table, that's a walking mask. And then they just look at it and they just say on it, be quiet. And then they just start walking up in the room and they turn around and look at me and I just look at him and I'm just giving a little nod and then if you're like, oh shit, this is weird. And they just turn around and just be quiet. And I'm just doing it being title lesson, just not saying a single word, then it gets right to the end of the lesson. And then like, as like almost just as happy as you can be just the most sort of. And then like, I don't know if you're like, not enthusiastic tone ever, so wow, that's really good. You like excellent words today. Well, don't even so good. I hope you have an excellent lesson and they're all like, what the fuck is this guy so fucking weird. And I just thought, yeah, I see like, I'm not waving them off big smile and I see like, I'm a good day. But yeah, I just used to do stuff just to keep myself entertained. But like, I like the fact that you don't seem like you take yourself too seriously because when I read the book and I've said before, but I've absolutely loved it, honestly, I think it's great. But it's so clear that you come across like a teacher who is perfect for working in a group. Like when you said they're just walking in and going, yeah, this is where I need to be. So how long after working in the group, did you think I need to start with this story? So they saw like, there's enough that I'd want to share because there must be, I don't know, maybe there's 200 pages in that book. Am I right about 200 pages? Yeah, there's someone like that. And there's a fair amount of stories. So at what point did you think I'm going to write a book about me working in a group? Well, I didn't intend to write a book initially. Like when I first started, I've almost been working at the, the proof that I talk about that I'm working at now and that mainly features in the book. I was working there for probably about a year and a half, two years, simply, because I started there on supply. And then the head teacher at the time, which is like, hopefully. No, no, no, that worked. Hopefully she worked there. No, no, no, that was that was sandy. And she was, she was proper sound. She was really, really good, good head teacher. She was so, it come to like, I was covering like I covered, I see tear covered maths covered English. And then I kept asking me to come back. I can come back and be this you come and at least ask the agency for me by name like, I will need him to come back. He's really good. And I went back as a TA. I went back and covered like just every role pretty much apart from being in a reception desk. I went and done at that place. And then it come to the end of the year or near the end of the year. And then I started, are you looking for work because, you know, I want you to come and work here. And I was just like, yeah, but, you know, you don't, you don't got music on the curriculum. She's like, I'll put it on the curriculum. I'll put it on there. This time what you need. Our body equipment, our body stuff. And I'll put it on for you. And I said, yeah, same. And then that was it. I've been working there since. But probably about yes. Yes, it's actually she was probably, you know, the head teacher I've got now is actually really, really sound as well. She's a professional. She's proper sound. But yeah, Sandy was was cool. And she, though. She just set the tone for the place. I mean, so everyone kind of knew where they were, what they were doing and the students respected her and all that sort of stuff. So then, as I say, working there, just doing that for a couple of years. And then every now and again, all these little things would crop up and these little stories. And I'd go and tell people that I've got them. I've got my mates, my partner, my mom, whoever I do. I mean, oh, this happened today that happened today. A lot of other mates that I got to teach in schools and they've a lot of what the hell man lot this place sounds insane. And I just think, is it that, is it really that mad lots of other stuff that I tell you and I've a lot. Yeah, man, not fucking now. Like that happened, this happened. So I started writing writing stuff down. And my initial idea was to make rocker TV series. So I wanted to make like a TV show. And I started, I wrote like a pilot or like most of a pilot, like three quarters of a pilot episode. And I wrote that years ago, probably again, like, you know, looking five, six years ago, I wrote that. And obviously we've teaching and all the stuff that comes along with it. And then obviously go just having a normal sort of personal life and all that stuff. Just find the time to do anything with it wishes to be a nightmare. And also, I like, you know, putting together a TV show, there's a lot involved. I mean, you got to get cast. You got to get, you know, crew. You got to get. Yeah. So much. So much. So much. So much. So much. So much work involved. So this thought, yeah, realistically, is that going to happen? And I thought, you know, not really. I don't know. There's, I've got friends in my circle who have had scripts commissioned and you know, pilots made from it and whatnot. But it's, I do get what you mean. There is, it's a longer process because I don't know if you've seen recently, but BBC 3 have released a program called Pro, which is a sitcom. Don't get me started on it, man. I've not watched it. I've not watched it. You know what it is. I'm a bit bitter. Well, do you know what? Right. I, I watched it the other week. I watched the first episode and it's very stylistic. And I don't think it depicts. I don't think it depicts a proof. Yeah. I think it's a bit kind of made the polish. The fact it's decorated inside this prove to a point where I'm like, that is like a, like an Instagrammer's type house that they're doing. Closing. It's. There's too many chairs that are like, mustard, Colt. Colt. I can't. It's almost like an IKEA show home, but as a school. It's a bit too polished. So, yeah, I, when you said about writing a script there, I heard, Prue was coming out and was like, I've, I've, I've a watch of it. You know, it might be exactly as I think in my mind, it would look. And it's just, it's just not, which is what we, with your book, the Basta teacher, I think all the stories within the school. Show how everyone's experience of going through that school was entirely different, but it really does paint the picture very well. You know, where is realistic? Because I don't know any of them people. But from just reading it, I get a style of, well, I get an idea of what your style of teaching is. Like one of the things that I like the most is the fact that when you add that, I think it was them two, to be it two boys. So you just, for basically, you said, I'm not going above a teacher in you and we'll talk about anything else that you're interested in. And eventually they got to the point where they were like, actually, we want to learn something, but we want to learn it from you. You know, and you were saying at the time, if I'm wrong, that was met with a bit of resistance from the school because they were like, why are you not teaching them? Yeah, yeah, there was no secret around the place that I was just refusing to teach that group, but like you said, I mean, they just weren't in a place where they were willing to be able to learn anything. And I used to go in every day with all sorts of flipping ideas, I'm going to do this, I'm going to do that. I was teaching them ICT and I was trying to get them to just do just basic sort of stuff. I mean, I'm just using word and Excel and they were having none of it. I thought, oh, I'll try and get them to make an animation. So I've got them to draw like little stickman on paint and then put it into publisher and not publisher sorry on PowerPoint and make lots slides to keep moving the thing. And then when you click through the slides really fast, then it makes up a little animation sort of thing. Anything that I could to try and get them to engage one day, I, uh, because I used to always try and pull the computer apart because they're just little. So, uh, one of the four is 10. That's, that's another story for another day. That one didn't make the book. There's quite a lot of story. I'm not right. One thing is a lot of stories that didn't make the book and I only could have got to the point result. Right. I've written so many in a lot. I need to just get it out there. Always leaving one in more mapping. But, uh, yeah, just to finish up for us. So yeah, I, uh, I got to a point where I was just like, you know, he's coming in every day, he's ripping the computer apart. I said, you know what? You want to see what's inside the computer? But I come on in and I took the whole thing apart. All the stuff I said to him, you know, is take the hard drive out the motherboard, the flipping ram, everything took it all like. I was trying to say, I don't know, this is what is in the computer. This is how it works. This is what, you know, controls, the memory is this. And I was just so, this is shit. And it's like launching all the stuff across the room, throwing bits of computer across the place. And I was like, you know what? Like it, man. Like I just, you just aren't able to learn anything at the moment. And we're like, I don't want to give too much to work because obviously I want people to read the book and it's what obviously, uh, the background, because the one kid he ended up leaving and I ended up with just the one one left. But that kid's background was so messed up. It was just heartbreaking really to hear the kind of where we'd come from and what had happened and have ended up at the proof. And I just thought, no, I don't want to learn anything. Going through his head, there's going to be all these different things. I mean, I'm I even going to see my family again. You know, when I'm ever going to see my siblings and my mom and all this stuff. And I'm sitting there trying to get him to fucking, you know, type in algebraic equations into an Excel spreadsheet. He's, he don't give a shit. He don't care because that's the last thing on his mind at the moment. He's thinking, you know, where I'm going to sleep tonight. I'm thinking, oh, I do you think you're going to be in color this is that green. He doesn't care. So I just thought, you know what, I'm just going to just just not teach him any feelings, going to let him do what he wants to do. And I'm just going to try and just get to know him and just talk to him and just understand where he's at and just get to a point where we can trust me a little bit. And I'm not going to try stream over. I'm not there to make his laugh more difficult. I just want to try and just be friends for a bit. I mean, just trying to be nice to the kid and it worked well because it got to a point where I'd say to him, like, look, you know, you can do whatever you want, as long as you're not damaging anything. You know, obviously I put some boundaries in place. Yeah, you can do whatever you want. And that kind of let himself and he got to a point where he was able to actually maintain, you know, we still look a bit wild, but he's actually able to manage his own behavior to us to a certain degree. And then there's lessons within what you're by saying, I'm not going to I'm not going to teach you there's almost lessons by allowing him to, as you say there, gain control of his is self in them situations where he's been given free reign, you know, within a confined area, so to speak. He needs to learn to regulate his emotions and he's to learn how to understand what he wants and how it's affecting himself of the people, all those sort of things that I mean, like schools, this is what I've done, like I mentioned school, like I mentioned schools to me. It's just like it's like a factory process almost they've just got to try and just right you got to get in you got to get this done you got to get out and that's it. So where's the wider learning you're going to get sent out into the world and yeah, you might have all these great GCSEs, but if you can't even talk to people on a friendly polite sort of level, and if you can't recognize when other people are annoyed or when other people are happy sad all these sort of things, you can't recognize this stuff you're never going to get anywhere. And you're walking to your first job and they're going to go this guy's amazing on paper and you're going to walk on your first day and you're going to fucking call someone a prick or you're going to, you know, squeeze some girls are something. I mean, you're just going to get straight out of the door. So you need to get that wider learning. So that was my kind of the process really trying to get into a point where you can just actually learn something and then it can't just went from there. But yeah, you know, by the end of it, it was it was sound you wanted to learn it was done well. He got his grades and you know, I think that all of the other stuff kind of recognized that it was helpful. Yeah, but I think as well, it's also it's not just about as you say getting your maths English, your science and all that. Yeah, it's good to have that knowledge, but if you if you aren't able to operate with other people, then and you do that and where you piss people off enough as you go for your life. Eventually, you just isolate yourself, don't you? Yeah, yeah. And then it's like, if you think back to the stone age, if you were isolated, you're out the tribe. It's like your flocked. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's like good luck making fire, you know, you know, looking at the animals at night. Yeah, yeah. Social animals. And I suppose when, like, I don't know that kids background, but I can at least get some understanding just from experience I've had with other kids where for them, it's like they keep everyone at an arms length because then they someone's like, I can't then get hurt, you know. Yeah, yeah. But if you do that enough, it gets to a point where it's detrimental. Yeah, that's detrimental from the get go, but you know what I mean, to break through that, it's not just about saying you must listen to me. It's like, yeah, getting to know I'm just taking an approach that's like, we're just two people. So let me matter as well, get something out of this rather than me pulling teeth or, you know, whatever. And the thing is as well. I mean, like, obviously, I'm not saying GCSEs and education's worth. Obviously, I think, you know, this tremendous value in education, I won't be teaching it. If I didn't see the value in it and understand that it's got a point and it's got a place and all that sort of stuff, but at the same time, like, you know, and I say this to students regularly as well. Like if you fail all your GCSEs, it's not, it's not the end of the world. You know, I mean, if you, if you are a good person and you're a nice person, people will be willing to give you a bit more of a chance. It's probably a little bit more difficult now, let's be honest, you know, with the current climate, but you, it's not the end of the world when you get your GCSEs. And depending on what you do, you go on to do afterwards. So say, for example, if you go and, you know, you go to college or you go to an apprenticeship or whatever, your GCSEs mean less. I mean, no one's asked me for my GCSEs, what I've got on my GCSEs. And God knows how long because I've got other qualifications. It's like the last piece of education that you do is the one that people value really because if you've only got GCSEs, then people are going to ask you for it. If you've got just enough to get onto the next stage and then you get that next stage, then you don't really, you know, I mean, it doesn't really matter so much what you've got in your GCSEs. So no one cares that I got you from our GCSE and I see it because, you know, I can still use a computer and it's enough for me to get through what I need to get through. Yeah, it's just the idea isn't it? Like, if you graph now, right, and just apply yourself, you just give yourself options. And that's all you want is options because if you've not got options, then you're not going to be happy. And if you're not going to be happy, it's just like, yeah, you're then limited and then it's, it's just like a circle that's quite vicious. I believe most people say that as a vicious circle and not. I believe that is the thing. But yeah, I, I thought all the stories in it were great and like you get a sense of each of the individual kids or young people that you work with. Like, for instance, I'm feel free if you don't want to talk about this in detail because I realize you want people to read the book and it might just be a bit close to home. But Carl, for instance, was is that who the book's dedicated to? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I really, I really felt helpless at times reading it when he would feature in it. And like, angry at the environment within the school because it kind of ties into the second thing I was going to ask you about. But it shines through that your relationship with Carl was very good. And like exactly what he needed in that place because you know, the other people within the school like Darryl who I can't talking believe was even allowed through the doors. Like, are we able to, are we able to talk about any of these things over or would you say, yeah, I'm here for you. Yeah, so like I've only got an idea through some of the stories that he features in what Carl was like. But did you did from the get go. Did you always have that kind of understanding with him in that, you know, I suppose it was like, it's almost seems like when he's introduced he's trying to have a laugh with you. Yeah, he was, Han is down in stirlies, the funniest kid that I've ever worked with. He's fucking hilarious. And I swear to God, the kid you said me in stitches every single day, absolutely hilarious. And I obviously, you know, he had issues as they all did. But yeah, I just think that to be fair, when he started because I'd been at the school for a while anyway, like I kind of had, you know, blow my trumpet too much. I kind of had a bit of a reputation at school has been pretty sound anyway. Because all the kids who come there already know someone or they've already heard something from someone. I mean, so they obviously say, oh yeah, yeah, not so sound like you can talk to me. So right. And then because when they used to, when any new student comes in really like, I'll sit with him on the first lesson. And I'll explain to him, like, look, this is the situation. And I'm just straight up. I'm going to say, look, I will be as honest with you as the kind of all times. I'll never light it unless it absolutely have to. And I'll always try and be straight again. And I hope that I get that same back. And I suppose because the way I talk to them. I just talked to them, like I talked to everyone else. You know, they see me, they see me talk to staff. They see me talk to students and nothing changes. I talked to them exactly the same way as I talk to the staff. So they kind of get that sense immediately though that I'm not, I'm not there to just, you know, I'm somebody looking kind of just take as is enough. Yeah. With that kind of, he kind of had liked that, I suppose, because he never used to have to worry about filtering himself around me. It just coming in and it just being self. And I just thought he was just brilliant. I thought he was just hilarious and just nice and again, he had issues, but yeah, he wasn't a bad kid. I mean, and then all this stuff with like Darryl and hopeless and and listen, all that sort of shit. Like obviously there was other, it wasn't just me. There was other stuff there who got on with him and we all tried to fight his corner and all that sort of shit. But like to sit there every day and see this kind of shit that he used to get in the amount of just unfair treatment that used to get thrown in this direction. It was just heartbreaking. It was horrible. And if anything, it kind of pushed you more to be on this side because it was just so this is, you know, it's a child and he needs help and support. You don't need people. We're going to take the piss constantly and we're going to push him, you know, further and further away from all the different people that he's surrounded by and just isolated and making feel like he's worthless. And I think that that's kind of, I mean, that's obviously what I tried to put across in the book, but also just in general, like with any student, you know, I mean, why would you try and kind of a certain sort of dominance on a student? Yeah, yeah, no, totally. Because sorry, just for the benefit of the people listening to Darryl Hopeless and Liz are all characters with it in the book. And it's none of them shine in a light that makes you go, God, they are 100% made for teaching. And especially in them type of schools where, like I said before, you need to be so many different things and you can't, I don't think any way you can't just be like, well, I'm a teacher and you're a student and that's that. And because I just don't think it gels. But yeah, the fact that them three people consistently throughout the book come up within like various points of different students experiences going through the school and at no point is it helpful. No, no, no, no. Yeah, it's remarkable how well it almost seemed like a bit of a dirty threesome. I can't. Yeah, yeah. It's a good power structure as well. That's what it is because they were, I mean, Darryl wasn't, but you know, when you've got the head teacher and the deputy, it's like, where do you go from the head? Obviously, it was just a death of you go to the head teacher, but like, yeah, the deputy is enough. If it's just one of the other, you can do something sort up within within the building. But when they've formed this alliance and it's just detrimental and everyone can see it. It's just like, where do you go from there? You know, I mean, it's just. So out of all the staff that works in the school, what was like, you know, you've got like 15, 20 staff. Yeah, probably about that probably about 15. Yeah. Okay, including Darryl hopeless and this. Yeah, yeah. Okay, so you've got 12 people looking at these three and going, this isn't right. Yeah, yeah. So that's one thing that you know, I know you mentioned within the book, there's, there's a period of time where you have to, you know, kind of like calling for backup. And because you're not happy with what's going on. But the time when you started working there from the get go, was it a case of, oh, this something doesn't feel right with these three. Or was it like one individual started to show a side that then, you know, No, no, when I first started there, none of them work there. So when, when hopeless started, I'd already been there for a few years and she came in and based on that, she came in and basically, she was teaching and then it was quickly realized that she just couldn't, she just couldn't get on with the students. Basically, she didn't like the students. That's what it boils down to. She didn't like them. Yeah, and you can't work in a proof. You don't have any kind of relationship with the students. You can't do it. But she just didn't like the students and she would just avoid them at any opportunity. She would avoid them. She would, yeah, any interaction she had with them would just wind them up all the time because she couldn't just talk to them on a normal human level. She'd always have to be like the dominant person in the conversation. And she'd always highlight the bad things, you know, any negative traits that they showed she'd be paints and on it straight away. And it's like, yeah, they know, they're here because they get told that they're shit. So don't tell them that they're shit. Tell them they're good. They are point out the good things that they do try and look for some positive things and try and build them up. Do you know what I mean, rather than just picking it all the little, you know, the little negatives, but yeah, I suppose I again, when, when this came in. She, she was just there basically to fill a seat. She wasn't there. She wasn't employed for a long time. She should be there just to fill a seat for a short amount of time. So she again was just using it in my opinion as a career boast as she's like, I'm going to do this for a bit and go get somewhere higher up and, you know, I mean, yeah, it looks good. Yeah, exactly. And I think that knowing that she was going to be going hopeless store. I'm going to step into those shoes afterwards. So I'm going to climb up her ass and then I'm going to, you know, make sure that she puts me in position, you know, I'll be a shoe in them. And, and that's what it was. I mean, it's the same with Darryl. Like, they all three of them were just there to try and progress the careers. That's it. Yeah. And get a little bit at no matter what cost. Exactly no matter who they step time, no matter how much it was detrimental or who it hurt nothing, I didn't care that it's wanting to progress the careers. And that was pretty much the gist of it. And then obviously you got the rest of the staff who were like, we're not trying to progress our careers. We're actually here to help these, you know, these vulnerable students. What else can we do other than kind of, you know, what we did in the book. Yeah, yeah. Well, yeah, exactly. And it's just. It's evident that all three of them aren't healthy for the school, but like Darryl in particular shines through throughout every every time he's referenced at no point that I think. Like, I can't imagine what his interview must have been like, you know, I mean, for him to fill an off a person with confidence that he can do that job. It just seems like a complete psychopath. Yeah. I think I think to be honest that it was just the fact that Liz Eva, you know, she ever wanted to bang him or she just or he just add some kind of, I don't know if I can hit the tires or some, I don't know what it was. It was just something where he'd basically warmed his way into a fucking brain somehow and she just just thought whatever that mean, not it would do because, you know, we used to joke about the fact that I yeah, them to them to a fucking of his own kind of secret of arrow, ever. But then I think right, it wouldn't surprise me if the world because like you said, what other reason would there be for him to be there, especially given that there's a point, obviously you read the book as a point where. I say, you know, I was waiting for something, which was just like this now has happened. And you know, like it's fuck you, Jenny, I think it's the chapter. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And there's a point where it's like, okay, this has happened now. Without a doubt, he needs to go. There is no, no fucking wiggle room there is he needs to go. And if it's crossing. Yeah, yeah, massively. It's like, you already crossed five thousand lines. You know, he's gone so far over the line. It's just ridiculous. But like, no, he's done something where it's okay. It's been witnessed by pretty much everyone in the building. It's just so bad that he cannot be here anymore and knowing that he's working through agency. You can just get rid of him instantly like that. Yeah. So that was the point where it was like, okay, there's, you know, there's something definitely wrong there. Because if he's not gone now, you know, I mean, then we know, we know where everyone's car delayed. Well, because like, I'm not going to give too much away, but there's obviously numerous times where you say he steps over the line. But the one that springs to mind where he has an interaction with a student and the student makes an accusation that he's. Well, yeah, he didn't offer to sell drugs to him. Yeah. Yeah. And that, like that alone, if you're hearing this for the first time, you're not read the book, would make you think, what the fuck? How was this guy allowed anywhere near a school, but something like that where it's almost like, I don't know, you're like a prison warden in a sense, like the power dynamic of going, it's your way to get to mind. Yeah. And you're in it for the wrong reasons. So why the fuck would anyone believe you? Exactly. And I just like, because when Darryl arrived, was he all right initially or was it always like there's a bit of a state to you? No, no, he was, he was all right to be fair. Like, I'll be honest, I got on with him initially. So did everyone else. You all got on with him, you know what I mean? And then it wasn't until he started to kind of push to get this higher. I mean, like the careers everyone's there trying to get a bit of career. He started as a TA. And then he, uh, or teaching assistant for those who don't know, but he started as a teaching assistant. And then he, from out of nowhere, this became the, the behavior for support manager, which there wasn't a, there was no behavior manager role at all. And then it was created and he was just shoved into that position. And it was so, hang on a minute, how's that happened? He's been here for 10 minutes and all of a sudden he's in charge of behavior. And again, like the stuff that he used to do before that point, it wasn't the worst stuff in the world, but it was clear that it wasn't suited for that role. I mean, it's like, you barely managing as a TA here. I mean, let's not, let's not get to ahead of ourselves. I mean, putting them in that sort of position is just not going to work out too well. Yeah. So, you know, it was one of them ones where you, you kind of, you look at it from the outside and he said, something, something is going on that I don't know about. Some people fish is going on here. Yeah. But it was, it was a click. You weren't allowed into. You could never find out exactly. You knew of some of it. You could never quite figure it out. You know, I mean, that's yeah, that's not good. Because you, you know, you mentioned that even some of the students kind of cut and done to the relationship between Liz and Darrell. Yeah, it was blatant. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well, there's obviously, there's that, you've got a really funny story in there about a kid kind of making a bit of a joke about it. But like, if it, if a kid has the confidence to do that, you know what I mean, I mean, I'll be it. They probably got, you know, they're probably thinking, well, what's the worst? It's going to happen. But if, if a member of staff, I don't know, like, they're not stupid, the people that are at the school, because they're observant enough to see what's going on. If a kid is making that joke, because they've seen, then you would think, but there must be something happening between them two members of staff. Because I have had it in the past where there was a teacher I worked with who, when we used to have a conversation, we just have it like at the back of the room kind of, I'd stand in the cupboard and she would stand by the door, right? Just so, you know, she can keep an eye on the class, but, you know, there's nothing. If I'm referring to one of the students, you know, it's just not out in the public, not out in public. And we did it a few times, and then as the weeks went on, someone said, 'Ran was like, are you a miss, like, together?' I was like, 'No, like, why would you think that?' We see you chatting at the back of the room, and it's like, I was like, 'Oh, yeah, no, but it's from their perspective. It's amazing how that can come across, you know, and there was nothing, I'd, well, there was definitely nothing going on, but there was nothing that I felt was clear and obvious that would give someone an idea that, you know, there was a relationship there, but it does seem between Liz and Darryl throughout that there's like, as you say, that undercurrent of, something's definitely not right. If staff are not seeing it in kids' notice, and it's like, something you had to look out for though, that's the thing, like, it was just like, it was so blatant, it was just like, what the fuck, like, do you think we were all blind? And we can't actually see you stood there, like, you know, the light is definitely fucking bouncing off of you and going straight into my eye. I can see what exactly, you know, there were, there were just, even, I know that, like, you shouldn't judge people on the way that they dress and all that sort of thing, you know, but like, even the way in which they started to change the way that they dress and kind of the way that they'd, you know, the touch each other's arm or, you know, they just stroke someone's shoulder, just little things like that and you just be like, we can all see you, don't we? Yeah. You know, even trying to be sneaky about it, it's like, it's blatant. When you, when it's like break time or whatever, and all the kids are going fucking mad because, you know, it's a proven, it comes to lunch and break and that it's a bit, it's a bit chaotic. Yeah. And you think yourself, well, the two people who really should be present at this point will be the head and their behaviour manager. But no, where are they? Oh, they're a little walk over the park. It's all, yeah. What the fuck is going on here? Yeah, you're going off for a little, no, come back all smiling and giggling and having a little private jokes and that, you know, what, what is this? What's going on? Yeah. Like, you've been over there having a little fucking little jolly and a little, little chat and a kiss and cuddling the bench to probably work. I don't know, but you know, it's, you have a little kiss and cuddling the bench and you come, yeah, it's like you come back, you know, what's been going on since you've been over there, fucking someone's, you know, set the fucking toilet on fire. Someone asked if they got the red kicked in. Yeah, you know, where you been? What are you doing? Yeah. And that is exactly what BBC 3 is prune. He's not. There was like a slow mo effect of a chair being thrown in it and I just, I don't know, I have a watch of it and I think purely from how the place is decorated, you will be like, yeah, that's just, they just don't look that way. I think I watched the trailer for it and I just, and it's like, show some girl walking down the corridor. Like I think she was like doing a tick-tock video or something. Right. And I just thought, what is this man? I just thought, nah, no, I just, and the only reason I watched that as well is because, like, one of the X members of staff sent me a message saying, oh my god, did you write this? And I was, because I was certain, obviously, that I was working on something and he's like, have you done this? And I was like, no, I've never heard of it. And I looked at it and I was like, what is this shit man? I was like, you think that's me? Come on man. Yeah. It was like, you watch it. I was like, I'm watching that. It looks like complete shit. Honestly, I think you would, you would get something from it in a sense of it would show you every way of how to do yours. I would say what it made just from a research from a judgmental point of view, you can sit there and be like, this fucking shit. I might, I might check it out. But like, since you've released the book, have you, as there being any fallout as a result of it? No, no, no, no. I mean, obviously, you know, it's the staff, most of the staff at the school know that I've written it. Obviously, you know, hopeless doesn't know. None of the management know. I don't know, let's listen to his podcast and then they're going to find out and I'll be in the shit. But, yeah, none of them, you know, there's the staff that we've got now. They're all sound and, you know, I trust that there wouldn't, you know, cause a problem for me. But then, now I wouldn't, I wouldn't want one. No, no, no. Yeah, well, I think I don't think it's a case of you've not written a book. This is from my perspective anyway, with bad intentions, you know, it's very clear the relationship you have with numerous students throughout it is very solid and teaching them all in just a curriculum, you know, his life lessons to it. But, you know, you don't pull punches on what's happened and, you know, what life is like within the school. And I think that's the thing of that it's an honest insight into what that place is like to work for staff and for kids. Yeah, I just, you know, I just thought I'm just going to go brutal honesty. You know, I mean, that's it. It's just brutal truth, brutal honesty. And it's not obviously not, I've not used anyone's real name. I've not used a school's name. I've not done anything of an nature, but then at the same time, if, if someone, you know, if hopeless, for example, wanted to figure out who'd written it, she could. Yeah, because it's just because the short story, the story is so specific and unique. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, there's no one else who got fucking blacked on a snow day. I mean, there's no snow outside. Definitely coming hopeless, honestly. Yeah, so she's going to be like, yeah, that's definitely me. But it's saying, Trotton, you know, she's also got to recognise that yeah, all the other shit in the end of the year as well. And that's exactly what you did in the way that you behaved and the impact that it had. Yeah, and that's, that's, it's almost if, if then people do come forward, you have to take on us for what's, what's happened. Because very enough, if it was, in fact, all the other members of the staff at the school from, from what I've read, were on, seen it from your point of view. You know, it's not like you've got personal beef with these three people. You're just pointing out, well, what you did was wrong. You know, the impact of that was X, Y and Z. But I was just curious if there had been any fallout. But not yet. Yeah, because did you listen to episode 10 with the public? Listen to it about five times. Oh, I know it's definitely going well. Straight away. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, Alex, the coffee, he said Alex, the coffee, yes. Oh, sweet, man. Because they were all up in tune tomorrow. He's, he's, he was a really lovely guy, Alex. And as you know, as I mentioned within the episode of the video, it was just, soon as a reddit knows report, I was like this. More to this story than meets the eye. And when he told me about what was happening within the school, I just thought, this is crackers like I can't wrap me around how you're being, you know, held out as like, what you're doing's wrong. And it's like, but what they're doing's illegal like that. And yeah, you might say morally him writing a blog about his time at a school morally could be questioned. But like the intentions of why did it weren't bad? You know, it wasn't like he was naming a shaming people. And when you read it in its entirety, is he sent you the blog post? Yeah, yeah, but I've not mentioned it through all yet. And well, if you sent you the one about prom, when I read that, I was like, ah, right, this is exactly exactly what I thought it was going to be. Because then snippets that came out in the BBC news article that they've quoted are just like punchlines and a punchline sticks out. But if the build up to it is different to what you, you know, are thinking it might be without knowing it, then it's a completely different, different beast. Yeah, I've been keen to get people on who have had these experiences in schools, which are unique and the willing to have a conversation about it that isn't just what you'd expect it appearance evening. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean, like, you know, there's endless amounts of things that are in that book where if you just take that one line or that one sentence and you just put it on it. So, and then it's going to be like, oh my god, this guy's a piece of shit, you know, you should be moving 10 feet of a fucking child, but then like you say, it's all about context on it and the, the wider sort of picture, like you look at a big picture, like if anyone reads this book and thinks that I'm, I'm the worst person, you know, to work with students, you obviously I'm ready properly. Yeah, there's so much shit, which has gone on and so many people who were involved and you know, it's so how can you just kind of it's just scapegoating, I mean, that's what happened. I just scapegoating, so he's going to be in the highlight all of our incompetencies and all of our illegalities and all these different things. We're best quickly just fucking set him on fire and leave him out there to burn and then everyone will just be like, oh, there's a fire over there and they're going to look at the rest of the fucking building, do you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's just odd at times. But then has there been anything positive that's come since you've released the book. Do you feel like I've had pretty much purely positive feedback, like, but there's not, I don't think that enough, it's been out there enough for people to kind of really, obviously hopefully people who are listening to this will go out and buy it on Amazon. It's on there. Yeah, I put it all in the show notes, honestly. Yeah, so hopefully I can get a bit more feedback, but obviously I'm just trying to promote at the moment, but it's a bit of a weird on because as I say, I'm aware that, you know, it could potentially be detrimental for me, and it's obviously going out on a massive, it's a risk, you know, I mean, I'm taking by putting this thing out there. Yeah, yeah, but it's just because of the culture of, like you say, like of schools in general, you know, they're not going to want to admit to certain things, not going to want to highlight things about themselves and about the system in general. I mean, so it's going to be easier to get rid of me than it is to change the system. Yeah, like this, that kind of style of book where it's a bit of a reveal of, you know, behind the curtain on whether it be education or, you know, like this one called the secret barrister, which is all about the courts and stuff like that and how. And when that curtain comes back, sometimes it's funny, sometimes it makes you real and comfortable and sometimes it's just sad, you know, that's exactly what when your book is. Because years ago I was doing a gig with, what's his name? Fucking hell, either guy who wrote, this is going to her Adam K and he was headlining the show and right at the end of it, he just said, I've got this book coming out on Amazon. It's called this is going to her and literally just come out, you know what I mean? It was like, so please, please, please just support me, you know, by the book. And that is just gone like, you know, like to the fucking moon. And I think with, with books like that, the reason they do kind of catch fire and people go, wow, is because you are seeing something that you've never seen before. But in a way that isn't kind of shock factor, it's just honest, like, we've said numerous times. It's got like Wizard of Oz, then it's like people beyond the curtain thing, join me. And yeah, this crossovers with, you know, kind of backgrounds from kids that you get and just school life. But every book would have its own unique stamp and because everyone as a teacher has their own unique style, don't they? But yours does shine through is like, definitely suited for the environment. Like, if I was at school, I would have wanted your as my teacher, like genuinely, you just, you seemed very. As I mentioned, like many things to these kids, but it you were flexible in a way that I imagine working with you in a classroom, regardless of being a kid or staff would be very easy. Like you wouldn't feel like, oh, without a depth there, because you know, some of the situations you get yourself in in the book. I think fucking hell, yeah, like, you know, there's a lot of people in that who might just go, yeah, I'm not doing this. Yeah, yeah. But it's some reason I'm like, oh, let's go back again tomorrow. I want some more. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just getting stuck in. But that's that's good, then, that there's been no negative fallout. But when you look back on it, because did you write it over lockdown? Pretty much, yeah, I've been writing it for, I took me probably about just just about a year to write it. Because I was, you know, I had loads of little stories and stuff like that, but I was writing it on my phone in the middle of the night. So because that's the only time that I've really got to do is tell it's right and all that on my phone. And then it was obviously, you know, getting all, you know, sticking it all together and messing around and being tweaking it and all that stuff. But yeah, so most of it over lockdown, yeah. And then you just did we were at point because I'm self publishing this. Because I suppose now with Amazon, it's dead easy to do. But yeah, I know you mentioned before about writing a screenplay. That's been a long process at least with this. It's like there's a beginning. There's a middle and there's an end. And you know, you've got more stories that you could turn into another book. But as I say, like, it's, it's more a thing of like, obviously I wanted to self publish it and get it out there to people is about. But it was kind of more of a. Almost sort of therapeutic thing for myself. I know that sounds a bit cheesy, but like, you know, after the whole situation with car and kind of like. I don't, I'm trying to give too much away. With the whole situation with car, I just thought, you know what? I need to do something. I mean, I need to just do something. And I, you know, I said. You know, I said to him, you know, that I would always backing up and I would always try and fight his corner. I mean, I'd always try and just do what I thought was right. So that, and I just think that, oh, in that at least to just, you know, to do something. So, and that's why I've just dedicated the book to him. I was thinking, I'm just going to do something where I can kind of. Hopefully give people like, say, a bit of an insight into, you know, schools in general and proves in general. His proofs as well. No one really knows what proof is. You know, I mean, you know, I'm a paper. I said to him, I work at a proven. I don't know. How's that? I'm not what it is. So I feel a unit. Yeah. So I think part of it's just giving them a bit of an insight into that. And kind of, I just say it's a bit of a therapeutic thing for myself, just to kind of help me kind of get through some sort of shit. I was going through myself. To us, yeah, I thought I said, as you mentioned, don't give too much away. But that book is is many things. And from one page to the next, you just. Your eyes open wider and wider and wider. So I think it is a great. A great way for the story to be told and shared, you know, for other people to cause that if one put, if you know, it does sound cheesy, but if one teacher reads that and at least gives them a bit of a bit of food for thought in the future when dealing with a certain situation. And they think, well, you know, I maybe do it this way rather than the way I've done it before. That's that's only going to be positive, you know. Yeah. But then when you look back at it, right? Like, what's the one thing that kind of stands out for you out of when when you finished it? Do you not want it stands out from the book? Yeah. Yeah. I just want the process of it. I don't know. I mean, I think that. When I first started it, it was kind of just I. I can't just wanted it to be a bit. I just wanted this to be funny to gun this and I thought. I thought I'm just going to kiss and most of the stories are the sort of funny stories. And I started writing them and I thought and I thought of some of the stories which weren't, you know, weren't funny or. You know, they written in a funny way, but the actual point of it or the end point of the story or whatever isn't funny. I mean, yeah, yeah, like a serious point to a serious message. And I thought, I don't know if I'm going to put those ones in and whatever. And then I just thought, you know what? Like, I'm just going to just do everything. Just I'm not going to try and stick to it being a funny book or a serious book or this, but I'm just going to do it just as a real book and just an honest book. And I think that that sort of. It's been the. The best part of it for me is just thinking, you know what? I'm just doing it for myself. I'm like, again, it sounds so cheesy. Just do it just for myself just to get it out there, just to do it and just so I can say, look, this is something that I've done. And even if people thought it was a bag of shit, I'm happy with it. Hopefully, I'm not going to be a bag of shit. But you know, I mean, like, I just want to just, and that's what it is to me just to get something that I just thought, you know what? I've done that. And I think that I'm proud of it. And I hope that the people enjoy it really. That's all the balls, I think. That can confirm it's definitely not a bag of shit. I can definitely confirm that. Well, I saw that. Imagine that. It's good to jog. Yeah. We do it our way out and at the end of the go, don't fucking read it. No one read it. So shit. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah. And so obviously you're going to be back in schools as of September. Because teaching is a career type job. I know there's, and I'd say it from a point of view where a lot of teachers were in teaching that they try and get out or more say it like, oh my god, I'm going to have to, you know, stack shelves in a supermarket because, you know, no, no place is going to take me because I've been a teacher. Yeah. Not the stacking shelves is like the worst thing in the world, but you know what I mean, it's like they don't see it as being a transferable skill set. Yeah. But do you see yourself teaching for as long as possible, like where do you want to go with teaching in an ideal world? I mean, I'm happy. I love doing what I do. I love the place where I work, I love the top of students that work with. And I love just teaching in general. I think that, you know, obviously, when I'm like, you know, 55 or 60, I might think differently, but at the moment, I think, yeah, I enjoy it. And I don't want to change anything. I'm not trying to get like to a high position. I don't want to be like, you know, head teacher or head of, you know, yeah, I don't know this sort of stuff. I just want to just do what I'm doing. I'm like, regular sort of day to day shit. And this, I'm just happy with it. Like I do just love my job. I love teaching. I love the position. I mean, I love the sort of level of responsibility that I get. I wouldn't want to reduce the amount of time that's spending the classroom. That's one of the things I always think, like, you know, when there's other, I've seen other stuff who like, you know, they teach a little bit, but they're also like, you know, the head of teaching and learning or the head of whatever. And so they've got to go and do this meeting and go and do that. And they've got to build this extra shit. And I just think, now, I don't want to do that because I don't want to be setting an office doing stuff. I want to be setting the classroom. And I want to be having conversations with the students because I think that that's where the value comes from the jobless plan. It's no one goes into teaching for the money. You know, if you go into the money, but you got to be sort of, you know, going to be disappointed because the money is pretty shit. But the impact that you can have on the students is just undeniable. I mean, I can't think of another profession where you can kind of have that. And I think partly, as I said earlier about my own experiences in school, I hated school. Absolutely hated it. And I think the reasons why I hated it and the reasons why most young people nowadays still hate school. And I don't think that that's changing any time soon. So I think that that is why I like to kind of go in and just work with these sort of students. Because I think, yeah, you're probably all hated school as well. But don't worry. It's not all shit. And you can actually enjoy yourself while you're here. That's, I don't know if you've read this is going to hurt, but at the end of it, there's a, I have nothing read it myself, but I've been told by numerous people that have read it. I've read sections of it. I've not read this final section, but I don't care. Wrote an open letter to the health secretary, health secretary, I believe. Wrote to the government about the problems with the NHS, right? And the things that need fixing from an inside point of view, you know? And what you've said there, like I'm not saying, give me an answer to that now. But there's, I can tell there's definitely, you've definitely got an insight that could be shared in that way and be useful. So perhaps when you do your next book, you could, you know, you could pinch that and have it as a, this is, this is what needs fixing. And this is why and this is how you're going to do it because from where I'm standing, like that kind of blanket approach to education. Isn't probably the most, isn't the most effective way to do it. No, no, definitely not. I'll go, go. Well, I understand that money is a problem because you can't private school. There's less people in a classroom, so you get more time in the teacher, right? More schools, you've got 30 kids in a class, one teacher, maybe a teacher in assistant. And trying to get around everyone there is naturally going to be difficult. Like when I was in school, I wasn't the most academic. But there was things put in place that helped me along the way. But if I'd gone to, you know, I had to get tutor in when I was doing the GCSEs for certain subjects. Unfortunately, me mum and dad were in a position they were like, you know, you're going to get this. And as a result, me grades mirrored, you know, the effort and time that was putting on them. But if you are someone that doesn't necessarily have that support at home and do struggle with, you know, academics, but also just social skills. You know, regulating your emotions, all of them things. And you're then plunked into an environment where you're expected to be at say a base minimum level with everyone else. And then we all move up. But if you're below that, you know, you're already, you're going to notice that yourself and that's only then going to like domino effect on two loads of other problems that were they packed out because it's easier to go, no fuck you. I'm not doing this rather than say, actually really struggling with that, need some help. Yeah, yeah. But if there's things in place where that can be caught sooner or, you know, you it's at least highlighted. And then then people or them kids aren't falling between the cracks. Yeah, it's not a quick fix. No, it's definitely not. And I think, I mean, I remember years ago, there was a thing I think it was called the Tomlinson report or something like that. And I'm sure and that was like a kind of, it was like a framework for education where it is like you don't rather than I might be completely getting this wrong, but I'm pretty sure that it's like rather than just going through your education and being like right. I wanted to study, you know, history and geography and R.A. and whatever at this point until this point, it's like. And as you go through, there's like different avenues so you can constantly swap and change from one thing to another depending on the student and depend on what you want to learn. There's a bit more of a sort of student led sort of learning process. And I think that that is one of the things that is missing from education at the moment because, you know, I see all the time and I'm sure you probably have as well when you're working in a prove certain students. They come in and you think, what the bloody hours is this clear? I mean, what are you? Why are you here? And it's purely because they weren't getting the best grades to put it bluntly. It's all they weren't making the chart look good for the governor's or whoever said the right right, we need to get rid of this kid. I know teachers who work in my school and I blatantly openly said to me, I can't, I need to get rid of this kid. And it's like, why is doing shit is going to bring my grades down is going to get my average down all the sort of shit. And I just think, you know, so it's, you know, it's because of people like you while my school exists because it's tough. Because it's not getting the grades is, you know, it's going to bring my average down. I've got targets to meet and certain things, you know, certain issues are kind of, I understand because like you say, you got 30 kids in your class. If you've got one who's been an absolute nightmare and he's taking all your time and effort away, so then the other 29 is suffering. You've got to sacrifice the one to save the 29. I can't get that mentality. But at the same time, it's like that one is still just as important as the other 29. Yeah, yeah. What works for them because a prove isn't a long term solution is it and it cost a lot of fucking money for a school to send a kid to approve. Like, so the lad I'm working with in September, I've known him for two and a half years. I've not worked with him just seeing him about and privately is not good, you know, like his whole life is not good. But last time I saw him, as we broke up for summer, he said I'm looking forward to working with you in September. And I was asking you know, that's a bonus and I know that every day isn't going to be a walk in the park. I actually got told because I'd like you just find out what the kids are interested in and what is he's 10 this lot. I said what you want to be when you get older, he said a serial killer and I went all right, nice. I said who's your favorite? My Pete Sockcliffe said Bundy, Jeffrey Dahmer, like who are you into? And he looked at me like, oh, puzzled. And I said if you don't know about that, you can't be one. And I said that's the rule. And then about a week later, the deputy who is like, yeah, I worked closely with him in the great came up to me and was like so and so, went into class after. And was really not all these facts about Pete Sockcliffe said Bundy, Jeffrey Dahmer. And I was just like, well at least he's, you know, he's had a look. I said a bit of research. I'll be worried if you know come home time he's got a boot line with bin bags. That's when I'll start worrying. But for the time being, because sometimes I just say it for the shock factor, you know, and they think like, I'll get told to shut up. But it was like, no, if you're going to be a serial killer, which one? I was like, I'm engaged in it. Oh, for a. Yeah. But that's not the only lot. It's good to catch them like that too. And I said, I don't students who say certain things to me all the time. And I say stuff to them like sometimes I say stuff and it just goes completely over the red. But like you say some to them and like you say it catches them off guard and then they don't know where to go with it. And then it gives you the opportunity to be like, right then. So now we can actually focus on what I want to focus on because they're so stumped. They're used to the certain sort of direction. Like I say this in the knee tells me to go away and then I can go and do what I want for a bit. Yeah. But no, no, no, we're going to stick with that. And they're like, oh, shit, especially if you work it into the work as it always the best one. If they say something really like that, I had some students of a week who were they were talking about about some of a quoting some kind of like I don't know, like a tick tock bingles and kind of me or something. And I never quote in it. And I was just like, Oh, yeah, we're what's that from an of like, I watch this video and then I put this video on it. Obviously in a appropriate video. I thought, oh, yeah, cool show me some more of them. And I thought, yeah, what if one's and I started saving the more on this thing. And then I got all the clips and I cut all the clips out and I put them on to like this sandboard. And I thought, and I made this sandboard and I thought, right. And so next I said, you're going to make a sandboard using all these. And I just saw it. Really. I'm sorry. Yeah. And then it's like, okay, then. And I see you didn't see going that direction. Did you thought you were just going to be a bit of an ass and you're going to get away from shit. But no, it's fucking work now. So yeah, yeah. Now you do. It's a task. See that's good. And and yeah, that's I get it, especially in a crew where there's less of them. So. Because I work in mainstream now. Right. But I work with the kids that are there either getting sent to the prove or have come from a prove. And like that's how I ended up in there because I got this like rap sheet of this kid that had been expelled on school. They're all sorts. And then it was like, he is not coming into this school unless he's got someone to work with. Me and me. And I'm like reading this, you know, report. And I'm thinking, you know, this is it. It weren't great. And then I met this boy, this young boy, you know, like dead scrawny and everything. I thought, if this kicks off, I'm having you like this. I'm not fretting this. But as the time went on, I ended up staying at school because the kid moved on and the school were like, you mind? I was like, no, I would have the stuff a great. This is perfect. But since then, it's always been like so and so. It's like I almost after working there for about six months was looking around and was going, I think I know who I'm getting next. You know. And yeah, I've got Ted Bondy in September. So I could have had to need education too. Yeah. Well, I said to him, I was like, I read a book called The Psychopath Test. I love that. I read that. It's a full book of good. I read it. And he likes reading. And I'm like massive reading himself. So it's things that I wear. If I'm well, most of the time, anyway, you're sorry, you're saying they're like the kid doing a soundboard, right? And he's doing it, making it out of inappropriate things. The part I'm making is if you do that front of a class of 30, the other 29, or what we can do that too. Because he's been able to do it. But it's like the relationship that I have with this particular student has to be this way because they they can't work the same way the other 29 do. So it doesn't mean that you get to do it as well. But for September, this, this, this, this, this, lad I'm working with. I am already thinking like as long as I can do a lot of stuff within one to one, then I think it'll be fine. But it's like in a room of 30 kids, for instance, like he just says things for shock factor. I teach her other, they were doing sex and I wasn't in the class at the time, but I got told what had happened. You can kind of see where this is going, but there was a cock on the board, right? And the kid in front, yeah, just big, big whopping penis on the board. And the teacher was stood there and the lad said, Sir, is yours as small as that, right? Which in front of like 30 kids, they're like, Oh my god, this guy's Michael McIntyre, you know, they're like howling laughing. And from a teaching point of view, if I was that teacher, I would, I'd be like, I won't make a big song and dance about it, but I'd be like, you're not staying in the room, you know what I mean? It's like you need to, you need to leave the room. And considering when I mentioned that, remember I said, I told me what had happened and I told them, I was like, yeah, I'll just try and get him out the room before that happened. Or if it did, I was like, we're leaving. I won't make a big deal about it. Yeah, I don't think I don't think you'd like that. And I'd be like, right, okay, but at the same time, I think the teacher don't, I don't think he would like the fact that someone going, I'm not signing up there, but if that's what I mean, like working with him once a one, I don't think that'll be an issue because that kind of back and forth, I don't mind. But if there's an audience there, you know, deal with it in a way like, you know, you all know what's just happened is unacceptable. Like you know that. So, you know, don't, don't encourage it, but just recognize it for what it is, you know, it's a bit of an uncomfortable moment and we've got to move past it. So, that doesn't mean the rest of you start going, you know, I'll begin to it, sir. Yeah, I think like working with them sort of students, I mean, that's the sort of thing that I kind of, I kind of find hilarious to be honest though, when they come out just inappropriate things. And I know that over staff day, obviously, other staff get, you know, something that I'll get them bent out of shape so badly. And I just think that's what they want, you know, I mean, they want you to be, you know, they want you to be offended or to be annoyed and kick him out and whatever, you know, when you got a class of 30, it makes more sense to take him out because the 30 of them start going that direction, then you got, you can't ask him around when you got to the class, it's a bit different. You know, I mean, I, some of the things that I've said to students, you know, it's just ridiculous. I mean, I've, I had a group, I think not the year I left it just left it was the ones before and we used to start, I've a lot of little roast battles in the middle lessons. And they start saying all sorts of stuff to me and they're trying to sort me and I've like, listen, like, you're not going to win this game and I've got far more insulting things that I can say. I have to say all sorts of random shit terms in salt and but it's, it's, it worked with that group because you could build that relationship with them. If it was a class of 30, it would have been not right that you can't do that, but we've got a small group of four students, it was like, yeah, see with us, we've got that point where we've got to that point where we can have that conversation and we can have it in this room. And when we leave this room, it stays in the room and it's yeah, exactly, but you've got to build your way up to that point. I mean, well, yeah, it's like the kid who I was working with, it's just left the last interaction I had with him kind of summed up the, and you never, I'd never expect anything that's like, you know, a big fair well at the end, but we'd literally come back from a school trip and I'd like, I'd have a quick look round on the boss to see if anyone had left anything and long be old, so and so add. So I was like, all right, you know, and he was quite buzzing about the thing that he'd been giving, which was a water bottle. So I come off the bus and I was like, I said, I said, I said, I've just got your water bottle for you. I said, you left it on the bus, right? And he's got a face like a smack to ask. He looks so annoyed. And he just took the bottle out my hand, like really loosely. I didn't say a word and just carried on walking down the street and I just went, all right, see you later then. I just thought that is encapsulated the entire year of, because sometimes when he'd act up, he'd like, stab smashing things. And I go, I understand you're trying to control the situation by the more I smash this, the more subtle leave me alone. And it's like, I'm not, it's not a case of me trying to get one up on you. I just don't want you to cause any damage because you'll have to pay for it, you know. So it's like literally stop. Okay. Because I'm seeing pounds just fly out of the wall. Yeah, that's the worst. I'm going to start smashing you into a room. You know, you just think yourself, oh god, say, man, first of all, I'm going to have to write all the subpoena reports. Yeah, I don't know. But then when they start smashing things, you then you tend to get two different responses. The one, you know, what I'll do anyway, the one is, I don't care. My mum will dad will pay for it anyway. Yeah. Or they say it's not yours. It's the schools. So why do you care? And I think, well, it's not that I care. Like, yeah, you're right. It's not coming out of my pocket. I'll tell you what, do it to me. Car watch what happens. Find yourself underneath it. I will have the keys in the ignition faster than you realise son, right? I'll tell you to the goal, Paulson, Ramja. As you can tell, I never get to do parents evenings. Parents evening to the worst. And I can't stand parents evening. I'm just to go. Parents evening to not. Well, just quickly, because I realised we've been chatting for a while there. But like, do you, do you have a good relationship with the parents of the kids? You get different types of parents that you mean like, you get the ones who, who recognise that the student has been basically kicked out of school. That they left for no reason or unfairly or because they needed extra support and whatever. And they're really grateful. You know, I mean, they're like, you know, thank you for helping and for just being there and being supportive and all that sort of thing. And no one's love them. Can't get enough of them. But then you get the ones who decide. They just try and pass the book. Oh, it's all your fault. It's your problem. Now, you know, I mean, and it's like, like I said earlier, I mean, is there for a few hours a day? And it's only been here for a month. So you can't put all this on us. But you get, I think there's one student that I talk about in the book is his mum was like. She said, something like, it's a, it's smoking too much weed in the ice. And I've had to tell him that he's got to go smoke it in the garden like he just stinks in the ice. And I just think to myself, Jesus Christ, man, like, you know, when you got parents out of that, you think, what, what, what, what do I say to you? What I'm meant to do, you know, you're coming here complaining that, you know, we've given him a bad grade or that we're not saying he's progressing enough, whatever. But you're telling me, yeah, you're telling me that he's smoking it up in the ice. And now you've got to go in the garden because that's the big issue. It's not that issue that he's coming to stone. He's coming to school stone as far as the issue with my. Yeah, because he's using my papers as well. And I'm just looking at the problem. Is that the matter? She said that or was never rules made one. Yeah, it's like Jesus Christ. I'm not what is going on. You've watched that. What is it called? Nice school for boys. Mr Drew, school for boys. No, no. It was like, I think it was educating Yorkshire or educating Essex or one of them sort of things. But it's like the head teacher from one of those schools, they're like a spin off show. Right. It was they got loads of kids who basically been over excluded or run managed move or something like that from school or basically the naughty kids from school. And they don't look a program with them like a six week or something program. And they invited the parents and they got the parents had to be a part of it. So like they obviously teach the kids and educate the kids and try and get them to manage a behavior. But they're also doing with the parents as well. And I think this is exactly what a lot of the students and parents need is that it's not it's it's never going to be the best outcome. I'm just trying to sort out some behavior in my lesson and whatever. And then they go home and it's just carnage and they get to talk and do and act the way that they want. Not it needs to be everyone needs to be on the same page. I mean, and if the parents aren't like that. And they've that's yeah, they don't see the value in it. Then it's never going to really work. A lot of the parents hated school themselves and probably were on the verge of getting kicked out. So it's just kind of like history repeating itself. We'll see what happens in September because that is exactly what I'm kind of walking into. And I don't think he's a bad lad at all. He likes to wear the badge that he is and wants people to think that he is, you know, just a bit mean and nasty and all these things and it's like he can be. But there's moments where you go, you know, I mean, I've got you there. I can see you. I felt it first time I worked with him and this is like really, really low level. But he went into the classroom and he wrote poo on the board, right, which is like, you know what I mean, low level stuff. But he spelt it wrong. Right. I can just like who wrong Jesus Christ. He spoke like Winnie the Pooh. I like. But the hate at the end. And yeah, I was like, I've written poo and I was like, you spelt it wrong me. It was like, oh, shit. I was like, there you go. Like that's it. The, I'm going to tell you how to spell it, but that is another word for it. Son of an even. So, yeah, yeah, let's do an Antonim. But yeah, um, I, I, I, I, parents, what, if you've got my body, it does make a world of difference because it's not an overnight thing. It takes time and I think, you know, like you said that school, you didn't really give a shit, but your mindset now is so different when you were in your 11 and to kind of come full circle on everything that we've spoken about. I always think with the, it's mainly lads at I work with. I've never had a girl. But I always think as long as you leave in a better place than when you're found and that's the one thing that really shunned through with the book with you is like you care a lot about people. And I think that's not making things better, not perfect, just better. And I think if it's long as you're doing that and you know, whether it be in 10 years time, if they see you out and about and they're like, alright, so, you know, or. And because that age, they don't necessarily, I try to make myself as 3D as possible. And I talk openly about me private life for them, you know, not like really personal. And so that, you know, when a kid does see you outside of school, they're not like fucking hell, you know, you shopping all that. Yeah, it was true. They look at you a bit weird. So like leaving them in a position where if they saw you later in life, they might go or at least think, you know what I mean, it wasn't a bad guy. Because you're not doing it for popularity. But at that time, it's like they don't really know any better. And it takes time, you know, whether it be months years for them to kind of cut on to the fact that, alright, you know, you've actually tried to help me there. And I think the lad who left last year, he had been kind of the odd, not the odd one out, he'd been the loudest one in the room in his class for so long that everyone became so normalized to it that I said to him, I was like, you're gonna go to high school and you are gonna get side died from so many people because what you do isn't normal. Right. And like you need to address that. And I think it will take just enough people in the class to be like, what are you doing? You know, and he will just rain in it. It's like what you were saying, being at primary, a bit of a gobshite, telling everyone your brother will fill them in and then you become a year seven and you've got a year 11 and you're like, yeah, my brother will jump into like, you know, buy your lunch. And that kind of social pressure just does kind of correct you behavior as you just become a bit more aware of your limitations and you have to figure out what I've got to do this a different way now, I can't just strangle a girl because she's in my way. Yeah, yeah, don't do that. If you are, if you have thought about strangling a girl, anyone who's listening, don't. Excuse me. That's usually. Yeah. That's a takeaway from this to our conversation is a dog strangle girls. But no, I've really, really enjoyed chatting to you. Thank you very much for coming on. Yeah, my thanks for having me on. Obviously, I'm going to add all your social media handles and I will leave you a review on the book. I've actually I started to write it yesterday, but I've been pacing together me words because I was like, I appreciate the fact you sent it me. And obviously, I know we've said about using a few stories in the next term. So I'll filter them out bit by bit and hopefully listeners might go, I recognize that one. By the book, by the book, whoever's listening. Yeah, please. Because if I'm going to get struck off and teach you, I'm going to be porous fuck. It's going to be me Alex and Harry. Oh, Jesus Christ, what the fuck did we do? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've I've got a basing support from the people I work with at the school about this podcast. So yeah, it will be it'll be fine. But I've always said if I did get sat, the numbers would go through the fucking roof. But yeah, do you want to mention where people can find you online or anything? Yeah, so you can Twitter. I've got an Instagram as well, but I don't really use it. Twitter is the main one really. It's at Marvin underscore foe. Obviously, you can buy the book on Amazon, the best of teacher. Just type in the best of teacher on Amazon should pop right up. That's it. There's many books called that. Yeah, it's obviously a valuable paperback and a Kindle. So yeah, go grab a copy. Sweet. I will. I say mate, it's a appreciate you sending me. I really enjoyed reading it and yeah, recommend it. So and it's an easy read as well. You can fly through it. So get on it, people. But yeah, thank you very much. Make for coming on. Yeah, man, no problem. Do it. So there you have it. That was me, Marvin foe and the bastard teacher. Top guy and as I say, a top book, definitely worth reading. And he's entertaining as well. Definitely, definitely entertaining as much as there are some very heartfelt moments. I was like, this is just crackers. But yeah, I hope the episode was enough to kind of tease you towards having a look at the book. I'll even I might even have my having back on in another episode in the future when he's got another book, you know, who knows? And if you're someone out there who's written a book about teaching or anything that is sent it around the world of education that's actually honest and not, you know, and think about how you make other people feel pleased for the love of God getting such. I'll quickly say as well, obviously outside of this podcast, I'm a stand up comedian. And if you enjoy listening to this and you've not checked out the comedy by all means, please go and do check out my comedy. I'll be performing this year at Tramline's Festival in Sheffield on the 23rd of July. And then I'll be at Bella Drum Festival in Inverness on the 28th, 29th and 30th of July. And then fingers crossed, might be at the Edinburgh Festival. I've just got to figure out the room situation, but fingers crossed. But yeah, go and check out me, socials and stuff like that. Because I put five clips up a week of different gigs that I've done. So, you know, if you're looking for something to scroll through while you take a dump. Because most people take the phone into the toilet. That was a new year's resolution amount to leave it out the toilet out of the bedroom and just be on it less. So, yeah, if you're looking for some sort of content while you do your business by all means, I will be that content for you. But thank you very much, regardless for just listening to the episode and yeah, checking out the stuff that I'm putting together because it's great. It's great to see that people are enjoying it. And yeah, I do appreciate it when people say, actually, I really, that was not completely shit. Thank you very much. Please, please, please, please tell people about this podcast and tell people about Marvin's book, go and check it out. And I've said it my 400 times already, but it's definitely worth checking out and Marvin's a top guy. And yes, thank you very much for listening. I'm going to go and get over this cold. And then I'll come back with another episode when I'm not bombed up with cold. And yeah, we'll be sunshine and rainbows. But yeah, until then, everybody just, you know, look after yourself and take it easy. [Muziek]