The Splash [6]

This is an I Heart Podcast. Guaranteed Human. Hey, this is Hayes Davenport. And Sean Clements. We host the podcast Hollywood Handbook. Every episode we're trying to help our guests improve their careers by mainly focusing on how they can help us improve our careers. The show is famously super accessible so you can easily jump into any of our 650 episodes and understand what's going on. We recommend some of our recent episodes with Ben Stiller, Danny McBride, Riz Ahmed and Mary Steenburgeon. Listen to Hollywood Handbook on the I Heart Radio app Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. On Raiders of the Lost Podcast, we explore cinema like no one else, including huge interviews with stars like Ryan Gosling on Project Hail Mary. It was like the Jaws Shark. Didn't always work, came with its own problems. That's what made it great. The cast of Obsession. On set, there was so much magic happening with each scene we were putting together. Deep Dives into classics like 2001 A Space Odyssey or Fight Club. Plus weekly episodes on all industry news. Listen to Raiders of the Lost Podcast on the I Heart Radio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. And for more, follow @RaidersOfTheLost Podcast and @TiktokPodcastNetwork on TikTok. Hey, Portlandia fans. Carrie Brownstein and Fred Armason here. The Dream of the 90s is Alive in Podcast Form. We're launching Podlandia A.O. Rewatch, our brand new podcast where we revisit every episode of Portlandia together. Breaking down sketches, going deep on our iconic characters and pulling back the curtain on how it all got made. And we'll also be joined by the people who helped bring it all to life. Guest Stars, collaborators and friends, including director Jonathan Chrysler, the mayor himself Kyle McGlockland, legendary musician Amy Mann and many more. Kyle is going for it here. You fully improvise not just words, but a song about it. I thought you were all going to write a song. I remember you thinking that. Listen to Podlandia A.O. Rewatch on the I Heart Radio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up fam? I'm sports journalist Ari Chambers. Hey, what's up y'all? It's your girl Sam J. And we're the host of Everyone Watches Women's Sports, a new podcast from Together in I Heart Women's Sports. We're breaking down the biggest headlines. Naomi Osaka showing it out. Shout-out to you now. The viral moments. I've been obsessed with Koshan Rock's boxing journey. She looks good. Her combos are swift. And the stories everyone's talking about across women's sports. Because everyone watches women's sports. Listen to everyone watches women's sports. On the I Heart Radio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. This is Chelsea Hamler from Dear Chelsea. Every week the news gets worse. The world gets crazier and Yamanika is here to tell whoever's responsible you're the problem. Do you know I just found out who Sidney Swini was? If he got a bunch of women, then I should have a bunch of men. Do better or do less so I don't have to do so much. I'm Yamanika and I'm out. Listen to you're the problem with Yamanika on the I Heart Radio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. The Church was a little United Methodist Church on Eastland Road, which is right off of Moreland. It was an elderly white congregation in a neighborhood that had transitioned. It had gone on several months when the pastor said we've got to do something to help the kids in this community. I was 26 years old, had just finishing up my undergraduate studies and he asked me if maybe you've got some extra time. Can you come and help us reach these kids? So all I did was put up a basketball goal in the church parking lot, about one basketball and went out there just myself and just started bouncing the ball on the parking lot. Just bouncing the ball. Did it for a couple hours when inside next day, same thing, same time, just bouncing the ball. I thought maybe if I'm consistent and sure enough, a couple of kids showed up from the neighborhood. One week, two weeks, three weeks went on and pretty soon before we knew it, we had a hundred kids. The tragedy began to gain more and more publicity. Our program began to get more attention. It was sad to see the kids and as you know, out of less, they don't want to show their fear. They would joke with each other, you know, you can get snatched and somebody's coming, you know, to your house. But you could tell, you know, deep down inside, they were really frightened. I got the feeling that they knew they were in something together, you know, confronting this serious danger and they kind of came together and around the program and saw me as the leader, made them feel good to be a community, you know, to be a group. There was safety in our group and everybody, whether they admitted or not, responds to love. I think that we've made some progress with a long way yet to go. I can see a tremendous difference in the prejudices I grew up with, being born in the mid-50s. I remember the assassination of Dr. King. And I remember the kids of my elementary school saying that they were glad that he had been killed. Well, a terrible thing for a child to say, but that's what they were living. That's what they'd been taught. I remember those things and unfortunately still see some of those same prejudices that are alive, you know, even today. In our beautiful city, although we've come a long way, there are still bigotries alive, not only here in the south, but I imagine throughout this country. Honestly, I think perhaps we hide them a little better than we used to, but they're still there. I found acceptance in those kids and their families. And together we made a difference in that one little part of Atlanta. So thankful for silver linings. That was a man named Bill Burnham. As a young man in the 80s, he saw how scared these kids were. The victims in this case are the children. And that should never be forgotten. Because this story is so complex, for years people have argued whether or not they got the right guy. From everyone I've talked to, there's been a lot of disagreement over whether Wayne Williams is the Atlanta monster. Many people feel that he's guilty. Historians just don't really add up. He fit the FBI profile to a T. And depending on how you looked at it, after he was arrested, the murder stopped. But some people seem to think this was a huge conspiracy against Wayne Williams. But with very little evidence to back up those claims. But the question isn't as simple as did he do it. The question is, what did he do? Did he kill Nathaniel Cater and Jimmy Ray Payne? The two adults he was convicted for? Maybe he did. But what about the kids? Did he kill the kids too? Did he kill all of them? Even though people are still very divided over Wayne Williams himself, there's one common thread that everyone seems to agree on. It was time for all this to end in the city of Atlanta. And someone had to go away for this. And Wayne Williams was that guy. Wayne still claims his innocence. And from our very first phone call, he promised to provide strong evidence to prove that. I want this podcast to be the final debate over Wayne Williams and the Atlanta Child murders. And now that my investigation is in full swing, I'm going to put everything out on the table. If Wayne Williams has anything credible to say, now's the time to hear it. I've been incarcerated since 1981 in connection with the Atlanta murders. It was a situation that few people understood then and today, even fewer people understand the truth about what happened and probably even more so about what didn't happen. Due to the political climate and the fear and all of the uncertainty about what happened, the police and authorities were just anxious to arrest anybody that they could. And that person just happened to be me. Sadly, it's taken all these years for me to finally get the case brought back to the four lights so people can see the truth about what happened. In fact, not only am I innocent, but that the people involved in this, the families, the city and the nation deserve an answer. One of the main objectives for us is to make people aware of what really happened during events before the trial, as well as after the trial and they continue to date. I don't think few people realize I was never convicted in connection with any of the child murders. I was charged for the deaths of two adults whose murders were actually unrelated. Furthermore, we were prevented from bringing out a lot of evidence that could have helped me during the trial. We were talking about the existence of other suspects. We were talking about physical evidence, including five of evidence from Caucasian suspects and others who we know were involved in some of these cases. as well as false testimony about the synthetic fibers that the FBI presented during the trial. [music playing] [music playing] I refer not only to setting the factual record straight, but telling of the story behind the scenes about the hurt and the emotional pain that lingers to this day. I've done several interviews over the years, but none have addressed the full context of what this story is about. And Atlanta, another body was discovered today, the 23rd. At police task force headquarters, there are 27 faces on the wall, 26 murder, one missing. We do not know the person or the person that are responsible, therefore we do not have the money. From Tinderfoot TV, in house to works in Atlanta. Like 11 other recent victims in Atlanta, Rogers apparently was a fixer. Atlanta is unlikely to catch the killer unless he keeps on killing. This is Atlanta monster. [music playing] According to Wayne Williams, the story begins with the infamous night on the James Jackson Parkway bridge. Wayne first described a rather convoluted story about the timing sequence of the bridge that night. The FBI is killing it. Yeah, I got it. He's coming towards me. Stop. Last time a sequence they testified to the court. There's the contradiction. During that sequence, there is no way any car could have been going south on the bridge, turn into the gravel park line, turn back north. That's absolutely possibility. He's saying that according to police testimony, the timing doesn't make sense. And when he described as a matter of seconds, the police recruit below the bridge, heard this splash, shine his light on the water, didn't see a body, and only saw ripples, then radio to the other officers, who then saw Wayne in his car, turn around in the gravel parking lot just moments later, heading the opposite way on the bridge. That car might have to be driven before the entire time of the sequence. Bottom line is there was no slip legs. If you take the bridge out of the equation, Wayne Williams is not in prison, right? This is Vincent Hill, a law enforcement analyst and former police officer. But more significantly, Vincent is an expert of sorts on Wayne's case. If Wayne was not on that bridge, either the case would have been solved a different way, or it would still be unsolved, take that bridge out of the equation and what do you have? I guess you can argue that it put Wayne next to the body, right? I mean, he's on the bridge. They hear his splash. Two days later, there's a body found. That morning, while four officers set quietly under the South Cove Drive Bridge, one of them, and Atlanta recruit her to splash. Why do you think they stopped your car that night? You can't remember. That was the last night of the stay-cops. That was the last day they were sticking out in the bridge. So I'm sure they were probably, you know, anxious to stop something and just make it a count for the time. The police recruit Bob Campbell was stationed below the bridge, and he's the only one who heard the splash that night. And Campbell probably, something probably started him and he probably made up the story just to justify the existence of being on a breakout. The point is that the statements they said about the stop and what happened at the bridge, are correct. The only one that is not correct in that is what Campbell and Jacob said. He claimed that most of the FBI statements about the bridge were in fact true, except for two major points. The first being, recruit Bob Campbell's account of the splash. And there were crew Jacob's accounts at the timing. The second major point was over Wayne's strange story about a girl named Cheryl Johnson. The whole of the confusion in the statements was over the bang on the telephone number in Cheryl Johnson. He tried to persuade the jury. He really was out near a bridge that night, looking for a Cheryl Johnson, who still remains a mystery to this trial. The state implied he fabricated the story, but Williams didn't budge from it, claiming the woman simply gave him a wrong number and wrong address. When the FBI asked what he was doing out there, Wayne said he was looking for a woman named Cheryl Johnson, who had scheduled an in-person interview with him that morning. He told the police he was out checking the address. That night, Wayne gave police an alleged phone number for Cheryl Johnson. But later when they tried to call the number, it didn't work. He didn't belong to anyone. But Wayne says the FBI called the wrong number, and the reason was his handwriting. The number wasn't at 3, 4, 7, 7, 6 things. You'll see when you get my writing on that city's website. It was 4, 3, 4. My poor son, my nose, look alive because I closed Luke and Tom for them. The FBI claimed Cheryl Johnson wasn't real, but Wayne Williams agrees. So Cheryl Johnson, when does she originally call you? And what did she say? Well, she originally did not call me. She called my mother and my mother left ago. I talked to her the day before. And I think she was a bright call today. People doing public auditions. My music company, no one anything to put some of the acts in the FBI. That was asked to run it on the radio in television stations and newspapers from 1980. The artists do all over the radio TV. That's how she found out they got on them. And I can say, we did probably-- we took a radio about 800, 900 calls and problems. We had screened those down there by two assistants. And we tried to get about 100. It kept the actual interviews and auditions out of that. I even tell the police that it's been the only piece I went out to check the address because I felt it was a fake address. That's why I went out and checked it in the first place. He said as a talent scout, he received hundreds of calls during that time, and that every so often, he would get a fake caller. And she old Johnson was likely one of them. And this is what's fun to think about. How are we in the world if somebody was dealing with people? Why would they be doing public auditions? That doesn't make sense. But why was Wayne out checking this address at 2 in the morning when he was scheduled to meet with her just a few hours later? That never made sense to me. I mean, me being a 45-year-old man if I'm out at 2 in the morning, if I'm not working, and I'm looking for someone's house. Let's be honest, I know what I'm going to do at 2 in the morning. And it's not to talk record contracts. Did the FBI or the police ever find her in real life? No, and I told them it's the problem that she had because I'm not even sure that's her name. There was just the name of the C.A. We went to a public auditions. A lot of people made fake names and fake address. That was why I went out to scream. So I think all of the hoopla of the sheriff's office was you know, she was always going to scream, come. So maybe Wayne was out getting ready to meet someone and got lost. I don't know. Wayne likes to embellish things. I don't know why, but again, I think that was part of Wayne's downfall. Regardless if he told the truth or not, I don't think the outcome would have been different simply because he was on the bridge. Do you regret being on the bridge that night if you could go back and change it? Would you not go that way? Well, let me clean the tea like this. I'm the type of person, OK? I'm lively to change my mind to meeting in time. Everybody said, do you think it was a conspiracy? Would they have to get you a head attack? No, that was a conspiracy only after I became a suspect and they got you involved. Nobody knew how I was going to take that round home, not even me that night. That was a spur of the minute. The only thing I regret was going out period that night. You know, I just took my butt to bed and waited to let them all. Do you think that if you didn't go out that night, that you would not be in jail right now? Absolutely. No question about that. If they had to ask, and stay in question, if you were asking me right now, I would be in bottom line. Living in Fort Hood, Texas, my dad was military. You know, even then that story was national news about these black kids being murdered in Atlanta. I remember my mom to this day telling me not to go outside, you know, past dark, even in Fort Hood, Texas in Colleen because they were killing these little kids. Wayne Williams got arrested and got convicted and that was pretty much it. And supposedly the murder stopped and that's what I took it for. You know, it's a small child. You know, it's just you trust what the police say, you trust what the courts say, and that was pretty much it. You know, but as I got older, especially when I became a police officer and a private investigator, and I realized this keyword called "evidence" then my mind's that started changing about the entire case. First, we can't say that the child murders were solved because Wayne was convicted of killing the denocator and Jimmy Ray Payne, which were adults. So we still have all of these child murders, basically, unsolved because you can't say it's solved if you only convicted him of killing two people. Wayne's a very intelligent guy. I think Wayne's downfall back then was he embellished a lot. Wayne wanted to be the center of attention. He was calling his own press conferences, which just made him a bigger target in the media, right? You know, a lot of people that were innocent of this would have just said, "I had nothing to do with it and that's it." But I'm convinced it was something totally different that happened. Williams bluntly stated the police version of the now famous bridge incident was wrong. A lie. He claimed he wasn't driving slow, that he didn't turn around in a parking lot next soon. the bridge that he did not throw anything into the river. The state contends that loud splash was the body of Nathaniel Cater hitting the water. Although prosecutors had most of the pieces that night in May, it still lacked the essential part of the puzzle. Someone actually seen Williams' car stopped on the bridge or better yet, the suspect throwing a body from the structure. "Could be something, could be nothing, could have been a bird taking off, it could have been a beaver, could have been anything. You got police down there with flashlights immediately, and they see nothing?" So that would suggest that Nathaniel Cater's body, as soon as it hit the water, "Few, just float it out of sight, like a speedboat." Splash, you shine your light. "No, I don't see anything. Why not?" If it floated down the river and you found the two a's later, why wouldn't you see it as it's floating down the river right after it splashed? If you heard the splash and you thought it was a body, why didn't you send divers down there immediately? Dr. Blackwolder was there during the trial, so I asked him what he knew about the splash. "The cadets that was under the bridge heard a splash and his head flashlights and all that is shine ramped, they never saw anything, so they said it could have been a beaver because they were beavers in that river. It could have been a beaver slapping his tail on the water or it could have been a body that would throw off the bridge into the water, but he heard a splash." I asked popcorn with the FBI, what was his take? "Two cadets under the bridge, two regular officers and chase cars. They were intense underneath the bridge and the guy that heard the splash had been a high school swimmer and he knew what the sound of a body hitting the water and he said that's a body hitting the water. That was a splash. As you know, if you jump off a diving board and you spread eagle and hit the water, you splash. And that's what he heard. "They looked, you know, to see what was in the water, they never could see anything floating in the water. And then they brought a hydrologist in from the core of engineers and somebody just spied into that water. There were a lot of beavers in the river. We pop six tail on the water, it'll make a splash. So a body hitting the water sounds like it would be much louder than a beaver." We've done that. I did. I waited that when I was in the street with the throw bodies. They would be dumb as well. We didn't make sure they didn't wade the same amount by using sand and things like that because the beaver sound was flat. I mean, it's like hitting with a boat paddle and the body wouldn't. If it was the denukator at his stature, wouldn't someone else have heard that? It's like going to a pool, right? You may be 20 yards away, but you can hear people diving off the diving board. So this one guy is the only one that heard this. It's not even logical. It wasn't any like 151/60. It's a loud splash. If they're spread out the way they say they were, there's just no way only one person heard it. That was a warning signal to say that danger was around. We've a state refuge here whenever they are alarmed. And Sean Clements. We recommend some of our recent episodes with Ben Stiller. The definition of what is a movie is kind of changed, anyway, too, right? What do you think it is now? It's images and words being spoken captured by some sort of technology. Danny McBride, you know. He loves it now, but that's fantastic. Can you make it on? You make your own. That's great. I call him "Terror Reed." That's a good name. They're all named after cast members of American Pie. Yeah, I call. I don't. I never looked up if she was in this, but I call him "Leachie Sobiesky." Yeah, I don't think she was an American Pie, but I just haven't looked it up. She was prominent in the same time. The console demo. Yeah. Then Mary Steam Virgin. Why are you guys talking to me? I'm wearing the stand-to-movie. I'm trying to set you up for success here. Listen to Hollywood Handbook on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Carrie Brown's seen in Fred Armas in here. You know us or rather, you know them. Tony and Candace, Nina and Lance, Spike and yes, the chicken. We've played a lot of iconic characters over the years, but today we're showing up as ourselves to tell you about Podlandia, AO Rewatch, our brand new podcast. Each week we'll revisit an episode of Portlandia from the very beginning, breaking down the sketches, exploring the backstories of our most iconic characters, revisiting the Portland locations you know and love, and opening up about our creative process. How did any of this get made? Why do we think that was a good idea? We're ready to talk about it. Guest stars, collaborators and friends, including director Jonathan Kreisel, the mayor himself, Kyle McLaughlin, legendary musician Amy Mann and many more. You fully improvised not just words, but a song about it. I thought he was going to write. Listen to Podlandia. AO Rewatch on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. If you come over here to play games, I'm going to check you. Okay. If you do something in the news that don't sound good, I'm going to play you. Join Yamanika Saunders as she breaks down the week's most problematic stories on our new podcast. You're the problem with Yamanika. Do you know I just found out who Sydney Swini was? New episodes weekly every Wednesday is part of my new network, The Dear Chelsea Network. So join Yamanika each episode as she answers one question. Who's the problem? Listen to you're the problem with Yamanika on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Nick Tutoro. You probably know me from NYPD Blue, The Longest Shard or Spike Lee's Black Plansman, but I'm also from Queens, which means I know pizza. And on my new podcast, Delivering Happiness with Nick Tutoro, I deliver pizza from Prince Street Pizza to a new guest. We deliver pizza now? Then we sit down for a real conversation. I've shared a slice with everyone from Seth Rollins, what are you doing on the belt? To Alex Rodriguez. Just to let you people know we're talking to one of the goats here. To Bill Burr. I don't think I've ever met somebody so exactly out of their mind is I am. And now we even have more great guests coming up, including the great John Tutoro. Let's go happiness, Delivering Happiness. Mariano Rivera. I'm going to get a lot of stuff right now. And many, many more. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Delivering Happiness with Nick Tutoro. And listen now. I am Bob Pittman, Chairman and CEO of iHeartMedia. I also led the team that created MTV. My co-founders and I are celebrating MTV's 45th anniversary this month. On my podcast, Math and Magic, stories from the Frontiers of Marketing. You'll hear the untold origin story from the people who built MTV from the ground up. I want my MTV. Those are powerful words, my. Something for me that felt like mine and what? What a powerful word. Listen to Math and Magic, stories from the Frontiers of Marketing. On the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast or whatever you get your podcast. I can't help but think it's flash from a beaver's tail, which sound a whole lot different from a splash from a fully grown human body. So I decided to test it out. The team at House Stuff works helped me put together the whole experiment. The best option we had was rescue Randy. Randy is an adult-sized mannequin, used for simulations and training for emergency person though. So when dropped, Randy would fall like a human body, accurate weight distribution and everything. How do we try to recreate this sound? So what we want to do is drop something off the James Jackson Parkway bridge, something that is roughly the same size and shape of a human body to see what kind of sound it makes, how loud it is if we can hear it. What we're trying to do is find something that we can drop off the bridge and we've been kind of racking our brains trying to figure out how to approximate a human body. It's not something you can just go to the hardware store and find. And we've actually gone through many iterations of this. Originally we were thinking we might want to actually build a body out of wooden dowels and duct tape and packing material. And we got kind of far down that path but then decided it was not going to really be as flexible as a body the way we wanted it. We were thinking maybe something like an emergency rescue might have some dummies and things like that. And so we did actually find a fireman's dummy and they use these in training and like competitions for firemen. It just so happens that the dummy that they make has very similar proportions, both height and weight to the deceased, within your carrier. (upbeat music) - That's what that was. - The legs. - Wow. - Got chunky ropes. - Tyler, you're about to be careful. Lift with your legs. - Yeah. - Come on, dude. - Oh my God. - I mean, again, it's doable. It's tough. - Randy's a very large gentleman. He, you know, he does weigh 145 pounds. And, you know, hearing that, it seems like, yeah, that's doable, but it's dead weight, you know, the arms flail and the legs flail. And so trying to pick up that mass is actually harder than you would expect. - Pick up one of these arms or legs, or should I? - Oh wow. Ooh. That is, yeah. Very correct. Weight wise. - You know, if your adrenaline's up, you're gonna be able to lift more than you know. - Exactly. - What's the return pulse? - It's very good. I can't return it if it's wet. - So this is ours. - So we all kind of took turns trying to pick Randy up and to varying degrees of success. But yeah, it was a bit of a hassle. - Yeah, it's not easy. I mean, Tyler, you were able to pick him up. I really wasn't, but yeah, it's way more difficult than you might expect. - How close is he in height and weight to Nathaniel Cater? - So the Corners report and some of the other reporting had Nathaniel Cater's height at 5.11 and weighed at 146 pounds. And the rescue Randy dummy that we ordered has a height of six feet and weighs 145 pounds. So we're really in that range of where we wanna be. It actually fits quite well. - The bridge actually straddles two county lines, Fulton County on the south side and Cobb County on Northside. So we have to close the bridge down. We have to get permits from both counties. And on top of that, we found out that we also have to coordinate with the State Department of Transportation. They have to approve it as well. Closing a road down is one thing, but dropping a body into the Chattahoochi River is a whole different thing. So we've been coordinating with Army Corps Engineers, the Department of National Resources, all these different groups to try to figure out who we need to essentially get permission from. (soft music) Wayne spoke of a child sex ring that was operating out of a house on Graystreet in Atlanta. He told me that he believed many of these child murders were related to this sex ring. - We know that another six cases were involved in a homosexual ring going on in Atlanta, black homosexual ring. - Vincent Hill has spent the last several years looking into this theory too. And he believes it has some serious merit. - If you look at old records in old police reports, Uncle Tom Terrell, his friend Jerry Thornton, Larry Marshall, Jerry Thornton told investigators, 10 of the victims used to hang out at that house, that they would have sex with little boys. And men would come to that house to pay for sex with these little boys. So how do you put that on Wayne? - It's been learned that investigators have now found this man, Tom Terrell, and questioned him today about his role in some type of homosexual ring, operated out of this home in Northwest Atlanta. That ring apparently involved the latest child victim, Timothy Hill, and through recent findings may have linked together several other children on the task force list. Terrell knows this man, Larry Marshall, now in a Connecticut jail on armed robbery charges. Investigators also want a question, Marshall, but so far he is fighting extradition back to Georgia. The next best thing is this man sitting in a detective's car this morning. - How many of the murdered children have you seen around here? I'm not 10. I tell the man that. Jerry Thornton, Larry Marshall's former roommate, identified 10 of the murder victims from pictures shown him by a police investigator. Children he's seen in the neighborhood. Among them, 13-year-old Timothy Hill, 11-year-old Patrick Valtazar, and 15-year-old Joseph Bell. - This morning Terrell's house on Grey Street was empty. Unlike recent weeks, when neighbors said at any given time, several boys would be hanging out here. Terrell is an admitted homosexual who says one of the victims, Timothy Hill, spent the night at this house the day before he disappeared. - He was here on 12-go-sport to come back on the 13th level of my birthday. He didn't come back, you know, every day that I didn't see him and haven't seen him since. - Back in the '80s, no one was saying, oh, I'm openly gay. And you definitely didn't want to be known as a city that's trading boys for sex. But if you have 10 people that have been identified at one house where guys were coming in, paying these boys for sex, they were giving them drugs, they were doing all these other types of things. You have all of these people coming to this house, trading for sex. How do you put those 10 bodies on Wayne Williams? So you tie all these victims to Wayne, but you can. - 34-year-old Larry Marshall, now behind bars in Connecticut, is a known homosexual. He used to hang around this neighborhood on Grey Street. Tom Terrell, who is also a homosexual, said 13-year-old Timothy Hill also used to hang out here. And Larry and Timothy knew each other. - Larry told you he had Timmy over to his house. - Yeah, he said he came there. - What do they do over there? - I don't know they don't be doing them but drinking and talking. - But you do know for a fact that Larry knew Timmy. - He knew him. - Patrick Baltersar went missing after being seen at the Ammy Hotel. Patrick Baltersar, from the Ammy to his house to Larry Marshall's house, was about 1.8 miles. Baltersar would have had to pass Larry Marshall's house on his way home. He's walking home, right past Larry Marshall's house who's associated with this pedophile who's selling these boys for sex. - Marshall is believed to have known at least three of the victims. Patrick Baltersar, Timothy Hill, and Joseph Bell who was still missing. - If you're 10, 11 years old and you say, "Yeah, I'm gonna go tell my mom what you're doing." The heck you are because I don't wanna go to jail for rape of a child. - So I'll just kill you. When Patrick Baltersar was found, one of the witnesses that morning, she said she saw a male white in a green station wagon, you know, just lurking around, like towards the wooded area where Patrick was found. Who was the white guy in the green station wagon? - Baltersar was with a 10-year-old friend playing near these railroad tracks, near the Baltersar Home on Foundry Street. Baltersar's friend, Toljak Perry, a big man in a car started following them and tried to get them to come get in the car with him. Perry taped part of the conversation with the young friend of Patrick Baltersar. - He said, "Come on, you two boys." And Patrick started to the car. I grabbed him from the head, I said, "You don't know who that man is." And then, when you're gone under here, he said, "I'll be back." And then Patrick ran out and tried to get his tag number, but we couldn't get it. - They called the task force from this phone near the key shop on North Side Drive according to the young man who was with Patrick Baltersar. But after Patrick and his friend made the call to the task force, they didn't hang around, waiting for police. They split up and Patrick was not seen again. We don't know if police sent a squad car to this area. But Jack Perry says he has learned the task force talked with Patrick Baltersar's friend just two days ago. - I'm sure that the task force has the same information, so I hope it's beneficial to them. - I asked Jack why it would take more than a month to follow up on talking to someone who had phoned asking for help, particularly when one of the two children who had called turns up dead. - It's surprising that they would let this thing go this long. You know, you want to follow up every lead that you have. And I think it's just to break down of communications. - Jack Perry also has learned that Patrick Baltersar may have intentionally gone back to the area where the man tried to pick him up, because Patrick was a street hustler and believed he could get the license number and maybe he could collect the reward. - There's no coincidence that the FBI had Tom Terrell's house, Larry Marshall's house, under surveillance for weeks because of this alleged sex ring. If you follow the trail, you can't call the coincidence that Patrick Baltersar lives here. Larry Marshall lives here. The house where all this sexual activity was here, which also tied to 10 other victims. And you can't say, well, it had nothing to do with anything. It's impossible. In the many years of Vincent's research, he's found a recurring story in the FBI files, a story about a vehicle that didn't belong to Wayne Williams, a blue Nova. - I know there was talk about a blue Nova, which Wayne didn't drive a blue Nova. Why didn't the police do a motor vehicle record search to tie this blue Nova to somebody other than Wayne? The case about the blue Nova, the guy had an Afro with no glasses. Have you ever seen Wayne without glasses? Other than his booking photo, have you ever seen Wayne Williams without glasses? Wayne can't see. So who is this guy with the Afro with no glasses? Couldn't have been Wayne. You know, back then, a lot of people said, every black person looked alike. We're talking 1979. I had an Afro in 1979, right? My dad had an Afro in 1979. Who didn't have an Afro? That was black in 1979, right? That was-- Pre the Jerry curl when Michael Jackson made that famous, people were walking around with Afro. So it very well could have been someone that resembled Wayne 'cause he looked just like that. He had an Afro. The description wasn't a white guy with red hair. It was a black guy with an Afro. That was probably 90% of the black population of Atlanta in 1979, 1980. This whole time, I've been wondering if there were any kids that got away that were almost abducted. And if so, were they still around? That's what I met Rodney. He's an Atlanta native, a child living here during the time of the murders. Rodney firmly believes that when he was 16, he was almost a victim of the Atlanta child murderer. He shared with me his chilling first-hand account. I was 15, not old enough to work, but six flags accepted a fake ID, which you could get downtown at that time, and put me to work. So I rode the bus from my neighborhood in Southeast Atlanta to downtown. There was, at the time, a Marta direct shuttle from downtown to six flags. And all it did was go back and forth from this stop downtown to six flags, no other stops in between. I would change buses, get on the six flag shuttle, go to work, get on that shuttle to come back to downtown to go home and get on my bus, which was the 34th Grisha. That particular day, for whatever reason, by the time I had gotten off the 34th Grisha, walked across from the end of the line and to the six flags shuttle, I had missed it. And as I'm standing there, this guy approaches me. He was not tall about five, six-ish. He was in his mid-20s. He was clean-shaven, which was unusual for black male in the seventies, and he had a short afro. Had a fairly soft voice. So he didn't come across very masculine. He just came off as a nice guy. He approaches me and he's just basically chatting with me, asking if I'm okay. Yeah, I miss my bus. I've got to get to work. And my recollection is that he almost immediately offers me a ride. I'm going that way. There's no problem. You want to ride. Joe Blu-Nover, the Blu-Nover was parked on that same street just down the block. It wasn't for it. It was just walking down the sidewalk. I got in his car and off we went. To go to six flags from downtown, one would go directly to I-20, which is maybe a mile or so from that spot. What he did was drove on surface streets, heading north away from I-20. On that ride, as he was talking to me, he offered me a joint. I had never done drugs. And to this day, I don't know if there was anything in it, or I was just new to that and just had gotten really, really high. I mean, frankly, I had smoked marijuana years after that and I was very familiar with it. But there was something about that high that was-- it wasn't just marijuana. That was something else in it. During the course of that ride, he started to fondle me. As he was driving over my pants, and I recall just kind of staring down at what he was doing, just not knowing what was going on, not really communicating with him. You know, at 15, I had no idea what was going on. As we continued down Fulton and Dustrial, I knew that he would get onto I-20 because we were one exit away from Six Flags. Either he'd get onto I-20, go over into Cobb County, drop me off his Six Flags, or he would continue down Fulton and Dustrial, which, if he passed under I-20, heading south, it was no man's land. Industrial warehouses, nothing. And as we were at a traffic light, maybe two blocks from the entrance to I-20, it was like a do-or-die moment. And as we were sitting at that traffic light, just out of nowhere, I decided I'm going to jump out. And I grabbed the door, unlatched the door, and opened it, and tried to bolt out of the car. Now, I didn't have on a seatbelt, but he had this seat cover over his vinyl seats. It had a hole in it. And my afro pick that was in my bag pocket, which was the way we carried them, then, got hung up in his seat cover. And I'm struggling at this light to undo myself from this seat cover as the doors open, trying to escape. And he didn't try to stop me. He just said to me, as I'm struggling. And it was the most eerie sort of calm thing. By Rodney. And I got out of the car and started heading back in the opposite direction. Back up the hill toward a bank that I knew was the last stop for a Marta bus line. I was really out of it, really disoriented, looking out for him to see if he had turned around to come back in that direction. He didn't. He continued on. And I basically just laid on the grass in front of this bank, waiting on a Marta bus to come. And finally, one did. Got on it, went back downtown, got on another bus to go to a relative's house to my aunt's house, and kind of slept it off during the afternoon, just kind of slept, never told anyone about it. I am convinced that I stayed in the car. We would not have gone onto I-20. We would have continued straight south on Fulton Industrial, which would have led into that no-mass land outside of Southwest Atlanta. And I'm convinced that the way that that happened, at that time, that this guy has some responsibility for some of his murders. If not, I don't know. You think that you would have been a victim? I'm sure of it. [MUSIC PLAYING] It was an odd, disturbing thing that happened. But it didn't occur to me until I was an adult, and had knowledge of the child murders in general. It didn't dawn on me that, hey, that situation was more than what it seemed to be. And I started connecting the dogs to other things that had happened. As the years went by, understanding what went on, what that whole thing about the Atlanta child murders was about, and the details of the investigation. And it became clear to me that my experience was related to it. By the time I had that realization, though, the investigation was over. We're talking about men to late '80s. And so what's the point? What's the way I thought about it? In my mind, the authorities had found their man, the person they intended to put it all on. And what's the point of me seeking out someone who cared in law enforcement to tell my story? What's the point of that? So when I came across this podcast, and you guys were looking for information, I decided to offer it. It's like, OK, I've got something to offer here. I still don't think law enforcement is interested. In my mind, I think they consider this a close case. I could be wrong. But that was the way I always looked at it. They were looking to close it and end it then. And I know of no one in law enforcement who would be interested in reopening or re-examining any evidence around this. So why spend time seeking out someone who would want to hear what I would have to say? Do you think the man who picked you up that day was Wayne Millions? No. Absolutely not. Positive of that. He sounds similar in description. Yes, similar. Similar height, same hair. Cleaned shaving. The photos I've seen of Wayne Williams from that time, he had blemishes on his face, that this guy didn't have. So just in the shape of his face was different. This guy had a slimmer build, more of an oval-shaped face. Different in more ways than he was the same. I'll put it that way. And Sean Clements. The show's famously super accessible, so you can easily jump into any of our 650 episodes and understand what's going on. The definition of what is a movie is kind of changed in a grand too, right? Danny McBride. You love the film. Oh, that's fantastic. Can you make it on-- you make your own? That's great. I call him tarot read. (laughing) - It's a good name. - They're all named after cast members of American Pie. - Yeah, I call. - I never looked up if she was in this, but I call him Lee Chisobi Eski. - Yeah, I don't think she was an American Pie, but I just haven't looked it up. - I haven't looked it up. - The console limo. - Then Mary Steam Virgin. - Why are you guys talking to me? - I'm wearing the Shantan movie. - Why are you talking so down to me that you think I don't understand your little play, I just really have been trying to set you up for success here. - Listen to Hollywood Handbook on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. - Hey, Portlandia fans. - Carrie Brown, scene in Fred Armason here. - You know us or rather you know them. - We've played a lot of iconic characters over the years, but today we're showing up as ourselves to tell you about Podlandia, AO ReWatch, our brand new podcast. Each week we'll revisit an episode of Portlandia from the very beginning, breaking down the sketches, exploring the back stories of our most iconic characters, revisiting the Portland locations you know and love, and opening up about our creative process. - How did any of this get made? - And we'll also be joined by the people who helped bring it all to life. - Kyle is going for it here. You fully improvise, not just words, but a song about it. - I thought he was gonna write, I thought you were all gonna write a song. - I remember you thinking that. - Listen to Podlandia. AO ReWatch on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. - I'm Nick Tuturo. You probably know me from NYPD Blue, the longest shot, or Spike Lee's Black Plansman, but I'm also from Queens, which means I know pizza. And on my new podcast, the "Livering Happiness" with Nick Tuturo, I deliver pizza from Prince Street Pizza to a new guest. - Are we delivering pizza now? - Then we sit down for a real conversation. I've shared a slice with everyone from Seth Rollins. What are you doing, my bell? - To Alex Rodriguez. - Just to let you people know we're talking to one of the goats here. - To Bill Burr. - I don't think I've ever met somebody so exactly out of their mind as I am. - And now we even have more great guests coming up including the great John Tuturo. - Let's go happiness, delivering happiness. - Mariano Rivera. - Big yellow star, bro. - And many, many more. Open your free high-hot radio app. Search "Delivering Happiness" with Nick Tuturo. And listen now. - This is Chelsea Hamler from "Dear Chelsea." Every week the news gets worse. The world gets crazier. And Yamanika is here to tell whoever's responsible you're the problem. If you come over here to play games, I'ma check you. Okay, if you do something in the news that don't sound good, I'ma play you. - Join Yamanika Saunders as she breaks down the week's most problematic stories on her new podcast. - Do you know I just found out who Sidney Sweeney was? - New episodes weekly, every Wednesday is part of my new network, "The Dear Chelsea Network." - If he got a bunch of women, then I should have a bunch of men. Do better or do less, so I don't have to do so much. - So join Yamanika each episode as she answers one question. Who's the problem? Listen to "You're the Problem" with Yamanika on the iHeart Radio app Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcast. - I am Bob Pittman, Chairman and CEO of iHeart Media. And my co-founders and I are celebrating MTV's 45th anniversary this month. On my podcast, "Math and Magic," stories from the Frontiers of Marketing, you'll hear the untold origin story from the people who built MTV from the ground up. - I want my MTV! - Those are powerful words, "My." Something for me that felt like mine and what? - Listen to "Math and Magic," stories from the Frontiers of Marketing on the iHeart Radio app Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcast. - The night of our bridge experiment had arrived. At around midnight, we all headed out to the James Jackson Parkway Bridge and planned to drop Rescue Randy right at 2am. The same time they heard the splash. - Do you hear my voice? - Yeah, so you have to go to the office inside of the bridge. (water splashing) - Hey, hey there, you are. - This is Tyler Over. Do you want me to stay down here or come back up over? - All right, so, Casey and Alex are gonna come down to you to follow me with the camera. (beeping) - Okay, I'll stay down here to get them safely to the spot. - Yeah, that sounds good, so we want to get a camera on team as quick as possible, then Camler will have your camera up here and it's 1 o'clock now and I'm hoping we can do the drops right at 2am. (beeping) - Okay, that sounds good. - All right. - Careful, just don't do this. - Yeah, here. (water splashing) (water splashing) (water splashing) - If you could pull your truck down where that Georgia power sign is and then we could at least walk him up there and get the dummy onto the back of your truck just to get it back here quicker. That makes sense. (audience cheering) But yeah, we're kind of approaching things as if we might not get a chance to do it again. - Yep. (beeping) - That was good. - Okay. - It's, I mean it wobbles a bit, but it's in the play of the joints. I don't think it's like the base feels stable. (beeping) (water splashing) (beeping) (beeping) (beeping) (beeping) (beeping) (beeping) (beeping) - I'm not gonna let you go. (beeping) (beeping) - Okay. (beeping) (beeping) (beeping) (beeping) - Yeah, it's good up there. (beeping) (beeping) (beeping) - Can I hear you? (beeping) - Action. (beeping) (beeping) (beeping) (beeping) (clipper buzzing) (clipper buzzing) - Cut. - Atlanta Monster will be a 10 episode podcast. So there's four episodes left. Here's a preview of what's to come. (upbeat music) One of my attorneys learned widely received a package on his doorstep using anonymous package. It contained hundreds of GBI files about a classified investigation into quite supremacist involvement in the Atlantic killings. It also contained a total of two recorded confessions. Some of the clients, but admittedly, they were involved in the murder of some of the missing murder cases. (clipper buzzing) - I don't wanna tell anything, 'cause my wife right now is her mother's. We've been through this for four. My name was put out there, and it was a scary ordeal. (clipper buzzing) Family spent a few weeks in a hotel, just being scared. (clipper buzzing) And I don't know you from Adam. (clipper buzzing) Just story that I've held on to for a long time that I've known about. I don't know how you wanna go about this, Dane. (clipper buzzing) You can always come here to the office that we have at Pond. - I'd rather not. - You wouldn't think here in Miss Little Sleepy Town that he was any kind of monster, or he certainly didn't act like it. Until he drank, and then he got the eyes of Charles Manson. I don't know. I don't know where she'd go from here. I know that there were some wrongs that should probably be righted. Your family still suffering. When anybody out there thinks that Wayne Williams didn't do all this by himself, is correct. If I only know that from the mouth of the devil, I'm sorry that I did not come fourth sooner. The Atlanta Monster is an investigative podcast told week by week with new episodes every Friday, a joint production between House Stuff Works and Tinderfoot TV. Original music is by Makeup and Vanity Set, audio archives, courtesy of WSB NewsFilm and videotape collection. Brown Media Archives, University of Georgia Libraries. For the latest updates, please visit AtlantaMonster.com or follow us on social media. One last thing, we've set up an Atlanta Monster Tip Line. Anyone with information, leads, or personal accounts pertaining to the Atlanta Child Motors can call us and leave a message. The number is 1833-285-6667. Again, that's 1833-285-6667. Thanks for listening. (upbeat music) - Get one there, huh? - Actually. - No, it was just a concrete of about this high probably. Yeah, you wouldn't think it sounded like a, I would think that if I was out there to listen, that I could tell the difference between a beaver and a body, but I've never heard of beaver hit it, so I don't know what they sound like, but a beaver still wouldn't be as big as the body of a man, and you would think it could probably tell. - Hey, this is Hayes Davenport. - And Sean Clements. - We host the podcast Hollywood Handbook. - The show's famously super accessible, so you can easily jump into any of our 650 episodes and understand what's going on. - We recommend some of our recent episodes with Ben Stiller, Danny McBride, Riz Ahmed, and Mary Steenburgeon. - Listen to Hollywood Handbook on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. - On Raiders of the Lost Podcast, we explore cinema like No One Else, including huge interviews with stars like Ryan Gosling on Project Hail Mary. - It was like the jaw sharp. - Didn't always work, came with its own problems. - The cast of Obsession. - On set, there was so much magic happening with each scene we were putting together. - Deep Dives into classics like 2001 A Space Odyssey or Fight Club, plus weekly episodes on all industry news. - Listen to Raiders of the Lost Podcast on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. - Carrie Brownstein and Fred Armasen here. - The Dream of the 90s is Alive in Podcast Form. - We're launching Podlandia, AO reWatch, our brand new podcast where we revisit every episode of "Portlandia" together. Breaking down sketches, going deep on our iconic characters, and pulling back the curtain on how it all got made. Guest stars, collaborators, and friends, including director Jonathan Christel, the mayor himself, Kyle McLaughlin, legendary musician, Amy Mann, and many more. - Well, I thought you were all gonna write a song. - Well, listen to Podlandia, AO reWatch, on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. - What's up, fam? I'm sports journalist, Ari Chambers. - Hey, what's up, y'all? It's your girl, Sam Jay. - And we're the host of "Everyone Watches Women's Sports," a new podcast from "Together in I Heart Women's Sports." - We're breaking down the biggest headlines. - Naomi Osaka, showing out. - Shout-out to you, Naomi. - The viral moments. - I've been obsessed with Koshan Rock's boxing journey. - She looks good, her combos, or swift. - And the stories everyone's talking about across women's sport. - Because everyone watches women's sports. - Listen to everyone watches women's sports. - On the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. - This is Chelsea Hamler from "Dear Chelsea." Every week, the news gets worse. The world gets crazier, and Yamanika is here to tell whoever's responsible, you're the problem. - Do you know I just found out who Sidney Swini was? - Do better, or do less, so I don't have to do so much. - I'm Yamanika, and I'm out. Listen to your problem with Yamanika on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. - This is an I Heart Podcast. Guaranteed Human.