The Spirit of Fear (legal system of spirit realm, agreements, & authority) w/Dr. Michael Cocchini - 006

Everyone wants to get to the high places, but if you want to go high, you first have to go deep. - All right, cool. Welcome back to The Deep End. This is a very, very big episode. I can tell you this with factual basis, because we've tried to record this episode a few times. And every time we start getting into it, it random stuff will happen. And the mowers will show up, and we'll start knocking on the windows and walk to stop. The dogs will somehow escape. The lights will flicker, whatever. And so we're gonna make it through the entire time, but I have my friend, Michael Cochini, back on the show, 'cause he's a powerhouse. And I think this is one of the most important topics we can tackle. If you want a life of power, if you want a life of a dominion, and it's the topic of how do you combat and deal with fear? Do you know how many times fear is mentioned in the Bible? - They say 365 times, but I actually looked it up, that's not true. It's closer to like, depends on the phrase. If it's fear not, or do not fear, or don't be afraid, they're different phrases, they do add up, but it's not 365, like they say, but it's a bunch. - It's a lot. It's a lot. I have this is something I've personally wrestled with, I think probably half of my life. When you look at the topics that are the most important, they tend to show up a lot. And that's probably why I was mentioned so many times. And I think we'll just have a conversation, and we'll share some stories, and then we'll share, I think some principles around, and this is not just, it's not just for Christians. - Yeah. - Fear goes after fear is agnostic in how it tackles people, but the real keys to how to deal with fear are going to come from the spiritual realm. - 100%. - You cannot undo something intellectually that was created and planted in the spiritual soil. And so we'll kind of mander our way through some of this. I don't, honestly, I don't have an agenda, I have sort of an outline that we can prayer, but I think we can go through some deep stuff today. - I'm feeling some stuff in the chat. - Do you want to pray real quick? Let's go. - Laura, thank you for this day, and a time of fellowship. Live also has been family since before the foundation of the earth. This is a family reunion of spiritual brothers, Laura, and we just pray that it would be a blessing that you'd be in the room with us, Laura, and that this content would be a light in the darkness to the lost who are considering that the way they've been living their life is wrong. The conviction is starting to set in, and they're starting to see this relationship with Christ and start to hear that subtle knock on the door, Laura, I pray that this content be used to convince them to turn that knob and open it, let 'em in. And for the saints, Laura, I pray that this would be a sign that a fine Lord that would take them deeper in their love and relationship with you, Father, and Jesus' name would pray. - Amen. All right, let's go. So first things first, I think it would be really good to go through everything else that I tend to study, and you're the same way. - Yeah. - You have to define the word the right way, or else you get off into a weird territory. - Yeah. - So-- - I forget that until it gets fractional elements. - How do you define fear? - I would say it's a lack of trust in God at its core. - Okay. - It's worship, in a sense. When you fear demons, they take that as worship, kind of like monster's ink. Remember when they would bust through the door, and the more they experience the kid, you have to go up. It's like a worship meter for demons, the more fear they can milk out of you, it's a currency, in a sense. It's like a demonic currency. - So that's a great definition. The way that I would define fear, probably a little more intellectually, is fear is the perversion of Godly faith. - The inverse, almost? - It's faith in the wrong thing. So what is faith? How do you define faith? Faith is really the expectation of something that you have no circumstantial evidence for. How does the Bible define faith? - Faith is the evidence of things unseen. - Okay. So it's something you can't see. So you don't have like intellectual and circumstantial basis for it. When someone is kind of living in this place of fear, it is that expectation, or that evidence of things unseen that's actually flipped upside down, and it's the expectation for something that's not what God has intended for you. - Right. - And so it has a mint, and this is why I say, like you don't have to, you don't always have to be a Christian to use the principles inside of the Bible. - Yeah, they work. - Yeah, you can still, you can hijack the mechanism. The Bible seems to call that jumping the fence pen and it says you're a robber and a thief, but you can like AA, it steals the mechanism of deliverance, strips God out of it and says you can designate a light bulb as your higher power, when we use the mechanism and it'll still work. - Yeah. - You can steal God's design. - So here's my definition of that, or here's my like thought process on that. The Bible gives you the manuscript for the full, but it's backed by scientific study and evidence we can connect all of these things. When you take something from the Bible, you use the principle, but you don't connect to the source of it, what you're using is half. You're using half. So like faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God, right? So I don't know where that is in the Bible. Do you know where that's at? - I don't know where the verse is, but it's a verse. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. If you don't have access to the, to, the sonship or the inheritance that comes with being a follower of Jesus, you can still create faith by hearing. Half the principle still works. So they've done studies now where it's like when you hear someone speaking, even if it's your own voice speaking, you're actually going into the neural circuitry of the brain and your brain's not processing whether something is fact or fiction. It's just overriding whatever was previously there. So you can take the spiritual concept, faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. You can use half of it. The part of it that's not connected to the source and it will still be effective, but only in part. - Loses that's purpose because purpose then would be to manufacture happiness rather than deepen your relationship with God. - That's your thing. That's one of your revelations that you talk about. So fear is this expectation for something that is not what God intended for you. So fear is the faith injected into the wrong thing. - Wow. - Wow, that's the wrong destination. - Yes. So when we get into kinesiology, here this is so cool. Fear is actually the linchpin. It's the connection piece between the past and the future. It's what holds it all together. Here's why. And I don't mean holds it all together in a good thing like glue. I mean, it's the doorway you have to pass through to get authority over fear before you can get into your future. You can't walk into your future without dealing and shutting the door on fear. Here's why. Fear is calibrated at level 100. So if you're watching this, maybe we can put a maps of consciousness. I'll give you an image, put it on. And this is like, and people should watch jealousy just to kind of see that in action. How that actually works. - 100%. So fear is calibrated at level 100 out of zero to 1000. So it's very low. The accompanying emotional state of fear is anxiety. Fear creates anxiety. This is why I've said for many years, if you remove the regret from your past, you remove the anxiety from your future. - Well, say that again. - If you remove the regret from your past, you also delete the anxiety for your future. - Because it's radiating into the future. - Yes, it's the past present future. - The symphony of the disease. - Here's why that's true. Regret, calibrate at level 75. It's the state right beneath fear. So when you have regret, you're actually using the past to justify and substantiate fear and anxiety for the future. So you have a pattern. This is where you get into dysfunctional vision. When you study great leaders, Abraham Lincoln, Roosevelt, all of these guys, the, when they're obsessed with something in the past that they did not like, they then become obsessed with self-fulfilling prophecies that they're afraid of in the future. It ties them, ties them together. - That's like we're stuck, we're reliving the past. - Over and over and over and over and over and over. This is the trauma loop, right? So trauma, typical trauma patients, what they struggle with the most is they're reliving a moment over and over and over. And so the brain just goes, well, this person is obsessed with that. They must like it. Let's recreate it. - It's almost like PTSD. - That's exactly like PTSD. - Like every trauma is a form of PTSD. - How do you substitute, how do you replace post-traumatic stress disorder with post-traumatic growth? You jump from fear 100 into 125. Once you get out of 100, you start crawling up the levels of energy. So where I said fear is the gateway from the past to the future. The reason is because once you get to 125, you get into the realm of desire. And desire is when you start changing your viewpoint from the past to the future. so it literally holds the past and the future together. Now this is not. applicable yet, but I want to describe it appropriately so that we can fully tap into the power that the rest of this video will have. So if you are finding yourself reliving a scenario that you do not want to have happen, what you're actually doing is you are taking a blueprint and you are force in printing it onto your present and your future. And the reason this is so powerful is because the mind gives you what you expect. So there is a really good quote. I think I wrote it down and I'm just going to share it. There is a neuroscientist named Moshe Bar. He is at the University of Barlan in Israel. He says we see what we predict, not what's there. So our expectation is really a god-given source of power that what we are looking for we will ultimately find. Seek me and you will find. The whole Bible is filled with this stuff. What you look for you ultimately find. Fear is such a trap because when you're looking for these things, which fear is looking for a negative arc. You create it. You find it. That's wild. I heard a woman the other day say that she broke up with a guy because he had a 20-year plan and at first she was impressed until she realized that he had already manufactured the entire 20-year expectation of whoever his wife would be. And so now that she's dating him, she's getting plugged into a pre-programmed role of his expectations and his plan rather than him coming together with her as just an individual that would have her own life and personality. And she's like the level of expectation that that created was terrifying essentially. He was forcing me into his existing expectation. It could have been any number of girls because he already planned it all out. And I guess fear would be things that are not going according to my expectation. So it's almost like trying to track what I expected to happen. And if fear is the expectation, like you said, you'll find it. You'll end up in a position where it's all you see. And you end up, I would take that to the spiritual world and say that that would give demons an extreme access into your life. Yeah. Okay, let's talk about that. Let's talk about that. Because me and you had a conversation last week. And just for the record, I call it Michael because you see the spirit world. And you have been through this. You've been through the boot camp with God. And I said, man, I feel like there is like an assignment against my family and my state, specifically in the realm of finances. How do I know if there's like open doors and different things that could be giving the you know, the Satan illegal access or actually legal access to to mess with my stuff. So legal is the correct term. A lot of people approach because our relationship with God is grace based. They approach demons the same way and they'll pray grace based prayers against them. It doesn't work because they're under the law. It would be like going to court and you're throwing out grace statements like your honor. I know I ran someone over and there's a legal implication for that. And the defense attorney is trying to throw the book at me legally speaking because I broke these laws and these statutes and these codes that are codified in a book somewhere. But I'm a good person. I donate to the Red Cross. I'm really struggling with my finances. I just had a bad breakup. My dog got hit the other day. I don't care. This is not relevant in this court. We don't care. The court, you're outside of the purview of this court. And so when you go to court, which is where these legal like the book you're talking about where the enemies in court and you start using grace as your defense in this legal court, it doesn't compute to the demonic world. They're just laughing like your honor. All this emotional garbage and like penal code so and so and they just read off the law and you're dead to rights. And so you have to switch over in court. And it's not really taking bait but there's every demonic truth has a like corresponding trap that you can fall into as well. You get to a new level of spiritual warfronts like I made it and they're like, okay, he made it here. Send him off in this wrong direction now from this new place. And so when you realize that you have to legally warfare against these demons, they will try to convince you that because legalism works in this arena, you should then take it into the prayer closet and have a legalistic relationship with your father, which is not true. Like you said, there's two different environments in your repentance to God with the changing of the mind and the heart, the turning from sin. It's all grace, right? In the warfare against demons, it's all legal. And because it's legal to answer your question, the way you can tell is by basically going through a legal court process with these demons, you can just ask them what we do during an exorcism. As long as the way I do it, I do more of a long term, almost like medical consultation type one. It's not just like, come on, Jesus name. And then nothing happens and you're like, let's do it 40 more times and see if it works this time. You know what I mean? There's sin that there's on repentance sin that the demons are attached to. And the thing with repentance is this. It's a change of mind. And so what are you changing your mind from and to, right? When we were created, we had the mind of Christ. It talks about a renewed mind and the mind getting the mind of Christ again. We had the mind of Christ when we were created. The tree of knowledge changed our mind the first time, to sin. And repentance is changing it back. Basically, canceling out the damage that the tree of knowledge of good and evil caused us. And so to repent is to change your mind back to the original state, to undo the damage from the tree of knowledge, to align your definitions of good and evil from the tree, with what God says is good and evil, not what you want to pretend is good and evil. All these false standards of goodness. And so when we repent, we're putting our mind back in alignment with how God actually created us, which basically cancels ground that these legal territory that these demons have in our life, right? Yeah, yeah. And so repentance, people are like, well, what does it mean to repent of your sins? It means to change your mind about the definition of sin itself because they're legal definitions. And when you line up with the court's definition of what's true and what's not, you're not throwing out these erroneous legal arguments. Your argument is now in alignment with what the book says that the judge is reading. The judge is like, yeah, that's true. All this is true. And the book is God's own words, correct? So you're you are coming in agreement with the book, but you're also coming in agreement with God. You're returning his words to him and they will not return void unto him. Yes. Because you're now in alignment with the deaf true definitions. The Bible is a lot of things, but it's also a dictionary and it's a legal book of definitions that God said is true. We've changed the definitions to justify our sin life. Repentance is changing your mind back to what God said it wasn't the beginning. And when you do that, you're now arguing correct legal terminology in the courtroom and demons are screwed because they've already lost the case. They're trying to like filibuster the court with endless appeals and you're just like reminding the court like, what? This has already been decided by the highest court. This is a waste of the court's time. This thing is not allowed to do this. And so when to answer your question of how can you diagnose your life, whether or not this is God testing me or these are demons interfering, which in a lot of cases it's both like Job God allowed the test. So it is the demons, but it's under the sanction of God. The way you can do it is by essentially subpoenaing them for information, which would be, and now this is going to sound crazy. It's just the kind of way it works. Something that's demonic is true in a sense, but they've perverted it and twisted it, right? They've changed the definitions. They've mutated things. So if you think of it like a Ouija board, you're contacting spirits for entertainment purposes, which is very dangerous to do. It allows them access in your life. It's a curiosity about them, which is a sin. There's fear involved when it starts to work and it's like fear is like what we're talking about is a massive sin. It's in the wrong direction. Fear of the Lord will talk about in a minute. It's a great thing. Instead of using a Ouija board to try to like ask demons questions for entertainment purposes, an exorcism is kind of bypassing the physical apparatus and just like in your mind asking them questions. You want to be very careful not to get curious about their world. They'll try to pull you in. We could, for me, when I went through this process about four years ago, I just did it on myself. I was like on the verge of suicidal depression, not because I was depressed and not because I was suicidal, but because the intrusive thoughts were starting to win the battle of convincing me that it was a good idea. Despite my own mind almost in a prison listening to this garbage all the time, not that my mind itself was depressed, but that the voices themselves were starting to, I was getting exhausted. It would just be easier at this point, to kill myself, and just get this over with. I started doing this process and when it worked, they tried to entice me with, "Okay, you figured it out. You're so smart. You're a Jedi in the spiritual world now." I bought into that for a while. Which is another access point. It's another diversion, another trap. He figured this and they've got endless. It's like a labyrinth, a spiritual labyrinth, trying to navigate this stuff. And so they told me, they're like, "Here's what you want to save souls, right?" Like, first off, even that, I don't save anyone, but they had me convinced that my efforts were that important that I had to sway over someone's soul instead of the Holy Spirit using us for that purpose. They said, they came up with this whole thing and I bought into it for about three months. I even, like, message people, I started to like, like format it and everything. They said, "Look, you're interested in math, physics, chemistry, physiology, pathology, these like deep things, the creation of the universe, you're all interested in these things." Well, we were there for all this stuff and we, for us, it's like useless knowledge, just like we don't even, we don't even respect it because it's just like for us like toddler knowledge. But for you, like, you're all fast, I can tell you, I can give you mathematical forms that have never been given before. You'll be famous. And what you can do, well, you should basically just continue to talk to us. And not just outside of the five questions that I'll talk about in a minute, but specifically to reach knowledge out of us, which is what? An enticement of knowledge, with the devil did even the beginning. You want knowledge of good and evil, right? And with this knowledge, you'll win no-bough. Peace prizes, like we'll just bless the whole thing, like, demonically bless the path. And then when you get to the top of the world society and everyone's like, "You're so smart, where'd you get all this knowledge from?" You can say, "I, you can reveal that it was from demons." Everyone will believe in demons and the whole world will get saved because of you, like, they came up with this master and it would have never went that way. It would have turned very dark. You would have very dark in abundance. Yeah. Very dark very quickly. And so once you start getting free, there's this enticement offer. There's either a ceasefire agreement, like, "You know what? You figured it out." Okay, cool. If you don't get rid of us even for, if you stop now, it's almost like a butt weight, there's more, like, a funnel offer, like an upsell. It's like, great, you got to this level of funnel. Congratulations. There's a thousand more levels. You're never really going to get out of the funnel as long as you keep talking to us, playing the game. And what we'll do is we'll leave you alone and we'll just hang out in the background. And we might even help, like, things go a little bit better. Things will get better, matter of fact, you might notice in the last three days we've already let up a little, just stop what you're doing right now. There's a ceasefire agreement. But because they're under the law, and if you learn to, like, argue correct legal terminology by repentance, by aligning your definitions legally with the courts, they then fall into alignment. And so when you interview them, it's like a cross examination, like, they're up on the stand. They have to give you certain details. And so it's literally, like, that's how it works. Like, what is your name? I don't have to answer. And you go to the judge, your honor. The law says, and you go to the law and says, it says right here that he has to answer because Christ already died on the cross. Therefore, he's in contempt of court. I pray that you double his destruction. Like, that's literally a verse in the Bible, right? Like, you were praying on your prayer earlier. You can pray that on them as double their destruction. And they're like, no, no, no, no, no, no. Okay. Like, like, you can intimidate them into talking through the legal process. But you go to the judge and ask him, based on his authority, to weigh more heavily on them to comply. You ask him what their name is, because they'll try to switch out in the hierarchy with lower ranking demons. You end up casting out the wrong one. You ask, what area of sin are you at work in? How, when did you attach me? Usually they'll give you a year. Like, not even sometimes a specific date, but usually just a year, you ask them, what ground do you still have in my life? What do you consider unrepentant sin? And there's another question I forget. And so you end up gaining, basically, they don't have the right to plead the fifth. And so they have to self-incriminate. And so if you know the right questions to ask them, you can get out of them what permission they think they're holding. And then just repent that, cancel that ground and that made the Lord rebuke you. Your honor, would you throw him in jail? And you can basically just go through that process. The demons have to answer because they're legally bound as long as you're using the right terminology. And you can essentially, like, medically diagnose your spiritual walk with God, at least your demonic side of it. And then once that process is done, leave the legalism in the court. And then go back to your prayer closet and switch totally back to grace where that matters. And then like, you'll end up in a deeper love and a deeper grace and relationship with God. But there are two separate environments. One's a courtroom and one's more like a garden. Yeah. Yeah. So I think I would probably recommend folks to be careful with this unless they have access to somebody knows what they're doing. Because you talked about this yesterday. You said there was a prophet that was going through people and deliverance and then he said, you actually got a demon put into you by deliverance ministry. Yeah. But I'm going to give an up like I'm going to, so I would go through that process with you. I might not feel as comfortable going through that by myself because I don't I haven't, I'm not, you know, I haven't studied up to that to that level. But I will give, I want to know what you think about this because I went through a similar process that was a little bit less intense. And I just want to share it with you real fast because this is, this is I think equally as effective. But potentially requires less knowledge. I was on a walk out on one of these roads. And this was Friday of last, I don't know if I haven't even told you this yet. A friend of mine texted me like a series of prayers to ask if you're struggling here from God. I think this is going to be a massive win for people. And the, there are three prayers. The first prayer is we say, God, would you please silence the voice of the enemy? Wow. Second is please silence the voice of my thoughts. The third prayer is God, please bind my mind to the mind of Christ. And I was praying these prayers. And I said, okay, God, I trust that you are faithful and you have answered those prayers. I'm going to ask you a question and I'm going to trust that the first thing that hits my mind is the Holy Spirit. Because if you remove all the other voices, your thoughts are done, the enemy can't speak. And your mind is bound to the mind of Christ. I said, are there any open doors that I've kept open that is being used to to mess with me? And silly I heard self righteousness and money. And God has been speaking to me through pictures, almost like a picture, but with a picture with context. So you don't, you don't have to, the coolest part, like one of the coolest parts about me, like actually learning how to speak with God. I'm realizing that he can speak the hours of context in a picture. He's understanding all of it. So Holy Spirit said self righteousness, which is a big one, and money, which is obviously a massive one. And simultaneously, I got a picture of me standing in a room with a big screen. And it was almost like I was in VR, like a holographic like screen. It all just happened in literally half of a second, right? It's like, whoa, this is crazy. And I saw two big buttons on the wall. One button said the provision of the Lord, the Lord's provision. And the other button said the provision of man. And I saw myself looking at the provision of the Lord and selecting the provision of man. And what I got contextually from that is like you have been you have been focusing and talking about and thinking about and preaching about this, but you have in your small moments, you have selected your own provision. And I said, all right, I repent for that. I don't want the provision of man. It's temporary. I don't care about it. I want the provision of the Lord. And things started moving like a day or two later and they started unwinding. And I don't, we don't have time to get into all of that right now, but I told you one of the stories in there that's pretty cool, wasn't it? Yeah. As a crazy miracle. Yeah. It happened. And so you can also just talk to the Holy Spirit because the Holy Spirit is a counselor. Correct. The Holy Spirit will literally tell you in court that would be like talking to your attorney and not addressing the enemy, which is asking if lighting him do all the work yet. And then after I was still in my prayer mark, I asked Holy Spirit, what should I pray for? Holy Spirit said, ask the Lord to release his vengeance. And then I got another picture of almost me praying in front of God. And the things that were coming out of my mouth were not me. I was like, I'm praying, I'm praying with the Holy Spirit once. And the prayer that came out was, are you going to let it be known that these infiltrators can touch the property of Yahweh and you do nothing? Is that how this works? Like from a place not from a place of being antagonistic with God. But like, bro, if you if you waltz into Russian territory and start stealing stuff, they're going to bomb the sh*t out of you. But the kingdom of God is way more powerful than that. And so I started praying, but I couldn't pray this prayer if I wasn't blameless. It doesn't work that way. Because that would be like having a treaty agreement. It's like I'm just the demotivant was just doing what they had. I had agreed with them to do it. Correct. You have to rate the contracts. And so So I said, "Is this how it works? Are you going to allow someone to meddle with property of Yahweh and you do nothing?" I released the vengeance of the Lord right now. And I got this idea. I saw David. - Amen. - King David. He didn't just say, he didn't just knock Goliath out and be like, "All right Philistines, go away." He cut his head off. And so when you get into authority as a believer, you go for blood. - Yeah. - It will be so painful and so costly for the demonic realm to touch you. That they eventually are like, "I am not going into that ever." And it's the most the same effect, but I think anyone watching this can start. They can pray this way. And Holy Spirit will communicate with them. - I would say be careful to make sure to see what the author of Christ the first. - 100%. - Because David represents Christ fighting our battles for us and that story where the terrified is relates that didn't do anything for 40 days. Like we're not the David, Christ is David. And so all that is 100% true. But when you're in court with these demons, it's like you said, you're not really, like you'll realize really quick that they don't respect you at all. They're not afraid. They're like laughing Joe Kamehjah. They're on the stand like, "Yeah, I don't think I answered that." Like a mafia guy's, "Ah, you're not gonna answer that." Like real flippant. You have to terrify them with the authority of the court and the judge himself. And so it's exactly what you're saying. You pray these offensive prayers just make sure that Christ, the authority is coming from Christ. - Yeah, okay. I wanna talk about that because I agree with it in part and I disagree with it in part. But I think this is, last time we had that wonderful debate. This is probably gonna be our debate on this one. But I do have to go to the bathroom really bad. Can I just-- - Yeah, we can pause it. - Call the timeout, okay. When you brought up vengeance immediately and you were talking about David, David had no holding back because he was 100% certain of his assignment when he came. This is a first Samuel 17. He said, "Who is this uncircumstised billistene that he should defy the armies of the living God?" If you come down, you can tell he's frustrated. He's like, he's not offended for him. He's offended for Yahweh. - Yes. - Very God. - Very. And he goes, people are like, "Oh, you just need to be loving." And he be kind. He says, "Come here. I'll give your flesh to the birds and the wild animals." David said to the Philistine, "You come against me with a sword, a spear, and a javelin." Before I keep reading, something I heard yesterday was very interesting for a prophet, I think, is pretty accurate. He said that what he sees, and he's talked to angels about this personally, his name's Micah Turnbo if you wanna look him up, if anyone wants to do research, feel free. But he talked about, when the Bible says, no weapon formed against you, no weapon forged will prosper. - As they are. - He says, "When you pray in the Spirit, literally what's happening is a weapon is forming in front of you, the angel that's with you will pick up that weapon, use it, and then go fight demons with it." In warfare, says, "You come against me with a sword, a spear, and a javelin, but I come against you in the name of the Lord Almighty," this verse 45, "The God of the armies of Israel, whom you have defied." This day the Lord will deliver you in my hands. I'll strike you down, I'll cut out, like he's just like, here's what's gonna happen. I'll strike you down, I'll cut off your head this very day. I will give the carcasses of the Philistine army to the birds and all the wild animals in the whole world will know that there is a God in Israel. All those gathered here will know that it's not by sword or speared, but that the Lord saves, for the battle is the Lord's, and he will give all of you into our hands. - Amen. - Love it. Interesting, Tidbid. I think what he said that about carving up the carcasses of the Philistines was in direct response to David or Goliath terrorizing the Israelites. So there's almost a political play there where the Philistines started running before they even had to fight them. He responded in kind times 10 to Goliath, 'cause Goliath was like, "I'll feed you to, I'm gonna feed you to a wild beast." And David was like, "Well, I'm gonna feed your entire army to wild beasts." It was almost like this back and forth. But here's what I think about. So David was a real figure. In the late 90s, they started digging up in Northern Israel, different writings and plaques. And they found something that said that a Hittite king had conquered a group of the House of David. So now we have like scientific historical proof like David and Solomon and these guys were all real people. 'Cause there's some Christians who are like, well, the Old Testament is all allegory and it's all literal. It's all literal, it all actually happened. But David, sorry. Theologically, I think we hit across roads where it is, David is our representation of Christ. But there's too much in the New Testament for me to believe that we do not have, like I don't, I think it would be a disservice in a discredit for God to send Jesus, go through everything you did, letting Jesus take on the weight of our sins and then have to come back and just save us all of the time because we don't walk in our authority through Christ. Now, if you have a power of attorney, do you have the authority? It is the person that you are, who has the authority. - Right, there's a delegated authority. - But you have that. And so that's the only thing I would push on that is making sure that people don't become like, well, I'm just a worm and God does everything and it's like, no, no, no, no. Like you are a but a fraction beneath the angels. And when you walk in true kingdom authority, the enemy will be afraid of you. And he should be. - Right, because of the authority that's delegated. - That's the line between humility and arrogance, I think. Yeah. - And the reason I say that, and I'm in total agreement with you on that, the reason the nuance matters is because the demons will try to puff you up with your own authority. - Like they did with you. - Yeah, and they did. And when I would fall for that, they would get more ground in my life. And so just anecdotally, I'm like, when I would say, look, you don't have to be afraid of me. Who am I? I'm, you know, but you see that lion stand behind me? And they're just like, oh, it's like God. You know? And so. - Aslan. - Right, 100%. And they would try to get me, they would build me up with statements like, like, why are you evoking his authority? You know that you have your own authority. - Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. - They would try to bait you with that. - Yes. - Yeah. - Now, it is also important to know who you are according to God, right? Like we talked about last time, identity dissonance. Are you forming your identity based on who you say you are or who God says you are? - Yes. - Because I'm a sinner, 100% I'm a sinner for my own eyes. And I'm like covered in the filth of sin that I, this, this, like unwilling, like, if people ask me, what's the difference between willful sin and unwelful sin? Willful sin is, it feels like you're in a theme park, unwelful, it feels like you're in a prison. Like, why can't I stop? Like, I'm still sinning, like, but I hate this. Right, that's like unwelful sin. And if we continue on in willful sin, there's no sacrifice left, right? It says. And so, when I was going through this spiritual warfare stuff, they would try to puff me up with, with my own abilities. Versus, like, relying solely on the authority of the court, as my defense, right? Like, well, in of myself, I didn't have no authority, I agree. They're like, no, no, you do, you have all this authority. You should like work with that. And like, no, 'cause it seems that every time I do that, this doesn't go well. But when I talk about Jesus, you guys just really hate that guy. And so, like, I'm just gonna keep talking about Jesus. - Yeah. - So, yes. You should not call yourself a sinner, because even though you are a sinner, based on your own vantage point, because you're wearing the garments of Christ, God says you're the righteousness of Christ. And so, you get your identity from who He says you are, not who you think you are. Just like, like I said, Jacob wouldn't go to Isaac and say, "Hey, I'm Jacob wearing a, he saw his clothing." It's that I'm he saw. He's playing the part, even though he knows he's really Jacob. And so, yes, you do have authority in Christ, but it's delegated. But just be careful not to let the demons puff you up, 'cause that's like the first thing that-- - That's the worst thing that can happen. - First thing they'll do. - So, let's talk about that for a second, specifically around agreements and authority. On a different walk, I like to pray while I'm walking, or working out. It's actually pretty difficult for me to pray while I'm like, just sitting and praying, 'cause I find I get just distracted with a million things. But if I'm walking, there's an old quote, I forget it. It was like, while the feet are busy, the mind can think and the mind can be active. - Yeah, you're almost occupying the flesh so that the spirit can take over. - Bingo, that's what I've ever heard it put. So, I'm on a walk and I'm asking God, like, how do I know whether I have, like, actually, I'm built up and I have, 'cause I'm not just interested in like, how do I deal with fear when it comes? I wanna prevent it. Like, I don't want to even have to, this might sound dumb, but I don't even wanna deal with it. Like, I wanna be that person who just, it doesn't have any access point. And God said, "Fear happens anytime you come out of agreement with what I say about you and you come into agreement with what you say about yourself." And I was like, okay, let's process with that. Like, how do I know if I am in agreement with what God says? And here, I'm going to say, Here's what Holy Spirit told me. He said, "Any time when something happens, when a person describes the problem and not the promise, they have agreed with themselves, we need to unpack that." - Brought some good. - We gotta unpack that because it is not enough to just believe what God says about Himself. That's easy. Like, there's no real power in that. When you agree with what God says about Himself, that's worship, but when you agree with what God says about you, that's authority. This is the difference between worship begets authority, but people don't make the connection. They get half of it. They don't get the other half. To get authority over fear, you have to believe what God says about you, even when you would disagree with it. - Right, especially-- - It's actually disagree with it because it forces faith to come into the equation. - Yes. And this is where it gets really interesting if we unpack this. So in fear, we describe the problem. In faith, we describe the promise. These are two different things. So this leads you to understand that if you wanna be a person of high faith, you're gonna have to become comfortable with people thinking you're delusional. - Yes. - 'Cause faith is delusional. - You'll start to be set apart from the world and look at the world. - Yeah, so the coolest part about this is science now is proving this to be true. So I'm gonna share a couple of stories. If that's okay. That will actually intellectually tie this loop up. There was a Hebrew University, a neuroscientist as a last name was Shlomo. He divided Israeli soldiers into different categories. One category. So all of them were gonna run 40 kilometers. He was gonna run 40 kilometers and he's testing their stress hormone response and their blood. He's trying to tap into what causes stress. One group, he would have them run 20 kilometers and then tell them they have another 60 left to go. Another group, he would say, I'm gonna run you 60, but only run them 40. Another group, he would give them mile markers at the different one he didn't give them. Any depth perception, no mile markers. And what he found at the end of the march, the stress hormone level and the blood of the soldiers had nothing to do with how much physical exertion. They put it, it had everything to do with their expected distance. The light at the end of the tunnel. And so these studies are starting to come out and they're showing us that our brain doesn't respond to what's actually happening. It responds to what we expect to be happening. Here's another story, Tarls Garfield. He took Soviet athletes. He put them into four different categories. The first category, he had them practice 100% of the time. The second category, he had him practice 75% of the time and visualize winning 25% of the time. The third, 50, 50, and the fourth, he had them practice 0% of the time. All they did was visualize winning mentally. Eight hours a day, just visualizing winning. They didn't even practice, they didn't touch a ball. The fourth group performed the best followed by the third group, followed by the second, followed by the first. This is the craziest thing is now we can tie scientifically what you expect to happen with what actually happens. And this taps us into like, you know, this dispenser, who is getting, this pencil would be somebody I would say is that he's got 50% of it. He's got the scientific piece, and I don't know his spiritual stuff, but the way that this works is when a circumstance comes against you and you start looking at the disciple that walked on water. As soon as you looked at the waves, he started to sink. As soon as you looked at Jesus, he was able to walk on the water. And so here's where this rubber meets the road, is if you want to be a person of faith, there are times in your life where you're going to have to get comfortable sticking your hand and head into the sand. - Yeah. - Because anytime you begin describing the problem, you have come out of agreement with what God has promised you, and you become into alignment with the problem, and you will get what you expect. So faith is this holding of the pose. You are hanging onto something that makes you zero sense because God said it while refusing to respond or react to the thing that you are afraid of. - That's probably the clearest I've ever heard that put. It's like, changes my framework on how I, like, wow. - You want more stories? - You got another one? - I've got a couple of them, 'cause this is where I think our conversations are so awesome on this show is like, we've all heard pastors stand up and preach about this, but like, what I want to do is I want to connect the word of God to us uncovering, just like you, like uncovering the science of the universe and how things are actually consistent. - I'm sure with children playing around, like it's so good, and all creation testifies, and if it doesn't, if it truth will kill it, it deserves to die, right? Because like, I'm not a Christian, so to speak, I'm a truth seeker, and it just so happens that when you seek truth, I think is honestly as you possibly can, which I'm not saying that that's an example of me, I have my own flaws and all this stuff, but if you seek truth, like, whatever it is, I don't care if it makes me an atheist, a Muslim, a Hindu, whatever's actually true is what I want in this life, that always comes back to Christ because he is the way the truth and the life. And so I became Christian again, after being raised from it, went away from it and came back simply because it's actually true. And I think that's what we're doing here, rather than just regurgitating Christian sound bites, we're actually seeking truth, and it sounds the same because it comes back to the same conclusion, but the path we took to get here is way different than you would experience in, let's say, a typical church. We don't assume anything, we're like, let's test everything, everything on the chopping block, right? It's like, it's almost like a deconstruction buffet of like, we're willing to go anywhere. Because if it kills anything we believe, it deserves to die. - Yeah, there's a lot there, but remind us to come back to that. Specifically remind us to talk about making the Bible fit into the lens of Jesus, 'cause that's what you're talking about, I think. So I'll give you two more stories. There was a man actually right here in Nashville, Tennessee, this is the 1970s, she had cancer, they removed the tumor, but then they found out that the cancer had spread, and it had spread into his liver. And so they brought him back in, they gave him a diagnosis, they said, you're gonna be lucky to live to Christmas. This year. And obviously, it's painful news to hear for anyone. I've had friends that have died from this, and I get it. It's an awful, awful experience. We live in the fallen worlds, you know. He died in January, so he made it right past Christmas. But in the autopsy after, they found that there had been a misdiagnosis on the second diagnosis. And the tumor in his liver was benign and small, and it never could have killed him. You're saying because he thought he was gonna die, he died? He expected to die. Oh my gosh. Here's another story that's just like this. This is in Minnesota, this is 2007, this is 20 years later, 30 years later. This particular patient had gone through a brutal breakup, and he was suffering severe depression, anxiety, and apathy. So the doctors decided to sign him up for a clinical trial of an antidepressant. And so he started thinking this antidepressant, but one day he was just feeling it awfully and decided to take all of the remaining pills. He was 27 pills, he took all at once, which is suicidal. And he started to die, but then he changed his mind. This is a suicide always has remorse attached. - They're really repented. - You've heard this idea of like, people tried to kill themselves and they did it. They're like, oh my God, what was I thinking? So there's buyers remorse on anything you take from the enemy. There's always buyers remorse. And so he changed his mind. He didn't want to die, but he was dying. So he went into the urgent care unit at the ER. His blood pressure was severely low. He was having shakes. His heart was palpitating. He was dying. The doctors couldn't figure out what was in this clinical trial because it was a clinical trial. It wasn't, you know, it was, they couldn't figure out what it was. So they called the doctor, they prescribed it. The doctor looked his names up, named up looked at it, and they said, look, there's, he's a placebo. He's one of the placebo's. So he took sugar pills, 27 sugar pills. So the doctors went back, they're like, hey, we can't find any toxins in your blood. There's nothing wrong with your body, but you're dying. But this doctor said he took sugar pills and the person made a full recovery in like two hours. - Whoa, man. So in the medical field, I see a lot of crazy things. That's mind blowing. So there's something called psychosomatic. Psycho-meaning mind, somatic, meaning like the body. And we, when someone comes to us with a ton of random symptoms, like everything hurts and I've like got this in this, we like low-key diagnosed them with psychosomatic. Like we're like, don't call them crazy 'cause then they're gonna like, you know, they're like, it makes it worse kind of thing. - Yeah. - But like run some tests so they feel like, you know, we did something but really this is a mental issue. But then there's this like real awkward moment where you like transfer them over to the psych ward and they don't know why you're sending them to psych ward. And it's really awkward. And the patients get pissed. They get pissed. You're like, you're calling me crazy. And that makes the symptoms worse, not better. - Yeah. - Right? - So like now they're like great. And they're really in pain. There's like four different types of pain. It can manifest from the neurological system. It can manage, manifest from the brain itself. It could actually be manifest. from the, I don't mean manifesting like new age, but like, like, like coming from cellular damage and signals are correct, there's different ways that pain can happen in the body. Psychosomatic is where it's in the mind. And so there's nothing wrong with the arm, let's say, like, like, let's say they have pain in their arm. There's nothing actually wrong. The brain thinks there's, it's actually a, like, a neurological issue. And the brain is extremely powerful. When people say it's all in your head, it's like, that's not helpful to say that. Like, the brain controls everything. It can release hormones and create environments and scenarios based on exactly what you're talking about, where you take sugar pills, but because you were convinced that this was going to kill you, your body will react accordingly. It's very powerful, the mind. Have you read the holographic universe? No, I have not. So the, you know, the, the mind, you probably already know all of this subject matter because you've studied it. All of the atoms around us are like nothing. There's like energy and frequency. Correct. It's, it would be the, the, the hollow space would essentially be like a, a, a pin, a needle in the middle of a football field. The electron path would be like the top row of seats in the football arena. And like the nucleus, the proton and electron, proton and neutron would be the size of like a needle pin in the middle of the field. And the, it's just empty space. Which is exactly how holographs work. Like a holograph, my friend William was talking to me about holographs one time and he said, a holograph is two lasers that are pointed at each other with almost equal force. And then the pin in the middle is what we see with our eye. Oh, it creates a pixel. It creates a pixel. And so he said the, the way that holographic universe works is the, the laser from the left and the laser from the right past feature. Oh my gosh. And the pen in the middle is the present. That is mind blowing. So to alter the future, you actually first have to alter the past because the intensity has to be the same. Correct. You can't alter the future while the past is the, the frequency that it was before. That's crazy. And so this is why like the expectation you have, this is why I say regret anchors you to anxiety. Oh, that comes full circle. So if you don't remove the regret, you have no leverage over the future and the anxiety. This is why fear is the gateway because fear is something that has to actually be removed from the past first. And it lessons the intensity, which therefore lessons the intensity of the future fear because they are equal at a real date. They're, you know, that is mind blowing. 100% and here's why I say what I, what I say about fitting the gospel through Jesus because Jesus is actually the lens we have to look at everything through. But there is no other lens like that's it. When you look at it and we agree on this, but I'm going to just bring it up again because I like to fight. When we say like David is just the representation of Christ, he is, but he's also a representation of us. Christ in us. In us because because of Romans eight, listen to this. In us eight, 19, the entire universe is standing on tiptoe, yearning to see the unveiling of God's son. Nope, that's not what it says. Doesn't say that. It says the entire universe is standing on tiptoe, yearning to see the unveiling of God's sons and daughters. It's us. The universe is not waiting on Jesus, bro. Jesus is the bigger since the beginning. The universe is waiting on you. That is wild. And you and you. And it's waiting on us to get this. And the mind is not a portal. The mind is a key. It's what goes into the vehicle, turns it, unlocks it, starts the combustion and flips on everything that we have access to. I agree, but I think the mind needs to be subjugated to the soul and the soul under the spirit. What happens is there's this like almost flipping of roles like in the curse of Genesis 3 where women will like seek the authority of the man and the man. We should talk about that too. The mind tries to take authority over the spirit and it needs to be put under it and correct the correct order. Yeah. Which is submission. Correct. And if the mind is submitted to the soul, which is submitted to the spirit and the flesh underneath that, I think that that's true that the mind is a powerful key. I think it becomes problematic when people let their intellect rule their spiritual walk because it's take their mind is therefore like trying to usurp the authority of the spirit itself and force the spirit under its leadership. And it's a path to help. Yeah. The same can be said for the car and the driver. Like a car can be used to do damaging things. Buses can be used to do, you can commit terrorism with it. But the reason that the scripture says it prays that your mind would be bound to the mind of Christ. I think that this becomes less of an issue if you'll just pray the things that Jesus prayed and pray the way things. Because if your mind is bound to the mind of Christ, your mind is going to be in submission. Yes. Yeah. The things are everything's in its right order, decently in an order. But it can become problematic. So I just wanted to add that qualifier. No, keep talking about it. And then I want to circle us back to Genesis 3 because my wife. Your wife like changed my theology this morning in like a casual copy. In literally a casual copy. In three minutes. Yeah. Yeah. And by the way, that was tied to fear as well. What? So that was the whole story. It was tied to fear and love, which perfect love cast out fear. When people, when we're doing the demonic exorcism stuff and people are afraid, I'm like you're feeding into the demonic. You're like both telling the person to leave your vacant room and also bringing them breakfast at the same time. Like you're like welcoming them in and then like telling them they have to leave and like it's sending them mixed signals. Like they need to be more of the type of prayer you're talking about like get out. Like you're not like do you know whose house this is? Like I'm going to call them right now. Like you need to like there's no double minded about getting rid of these things. There's a legitimate faith. Yes. There is a legitimate faith in a lot of fear. Yeah. 100%. And that comes from an increased love. So I tell people don't pray for decreased fear. Pray for increased love that cast out all fear. Because and this stuff has been all hitting us all this week. It's so crazy that this you've tried to film this three times and like it's not working. And then all of us get like equal like revelations just in the last three days. Crazy. Some things that happen with me as I realized that Jake and I were talking we're driving and it just hit me. I was like the way that yeast converts sugar and alcohol is the same pattern and same mechanism where like love converts fear into faith. So you feed in fear of the Lord. Fear of the Lord is the beginning of understanding of the Holy One, right? And so when you gain knowledge of God, you know God who is love, his love cast out the fear. And so you have these pastors who are telling new converts don't be afraid of the Lord. It's more like a reverence respect. Yeah. And I just want to like slap them. I'm like, bro, like what do you talk like respect and trembling? But like that those words don't go together. Yeah. Don't fear the one who can throw who can kill the body but cannot kill the soul but fear God who can throw your soul into the lake of fire, right? Yeah. I'm paraphrasing a little there but like it's borrowed from another verse. And so that's not talking about don't respect the one who can kill your body. Like it's talking about fear. Yeah. People like what I'm not afraid of God in my relationships real strong. It's like because the beginning of the you're talking about a cycle. Yeah. You're at the end of the cycle where the love has cast out the fear and you're giving bad advice to people to beginning of the cycle. They should be a terrified of God. Yeah. That will be the beginning of their knowledge and then they gain knowledge of God who is love. The love cast out the fear. They end up with a reverent respect. Not because God can't kill them because they know that God doesn't want to and that comforts them and pushes the fear out. But it starts in terror. And so you're giving people bad advice by telling them not to be afraid of God. They should be terrified of God. Well fear and terror I don't think are the same things. Well it says work out your salvation and fear and trembling. Yes. So you can go back and forth on this and we'll just do like our little dancey dance where it's like we both use scripture to invalidate the other scripture. I think you know it kind of because when you hear Jesus say like which of you is a good father when your kid asks you for a piece of bread would give him a snake. So like you're Heavenly Father is the same way you know how to give good gifts. That doesn't create a picture to me of like having a fearful relationship with God. Oh no no. But I think they're two different dimensions of our relationship. I think there's I think it's a maturity of the same relationship. When you start off as a kid before you get into the loving relationship of respecting your father you're afraid of putting your head to a couple of times. You realize I am safe because if he can handle me with like like Keith Yacke says right? Like women test what they want to trust right kids do the same thing. They misbehaved to see if you can handle them so that they feel safe with my dad can handle my BS. Therefore he can protect me from the world's BS and keep me safe. And so when you punish them they feel more safe not less safe because they know that you're authority over them. And so there's the fear and trembling that comes first that then there's the comfort that comes from knowing you're protected. That's the same path with God. You never get to like I see these anxious Christians all the time. There's like very like on edge like they're always on like like Ben and Drill or something. That's it. They're just jumping. Jumpy. And I'll tell like they're by the way Ben and Drill is not like you exactly jumpy. Well you know. Maybe some cooking. Yeah. A little cocktail of both. I'm confused the body. And so. what happens is essentially, when you tell those people, I think your problem is that you don't fear God. They're like, "God's got a love." They're totally, it's like if you would just go back and fear Him, that would turn back into where you're at except without the anxiety. - Okay, so God gave me insight on this, and I wanna share it because you're right, 100,000%, like completely. - I'll take it, thank you. - But this is the greatest part of the Bible is you have this beautiful tension and everything that kind of stays so tight. - So symphony. - Do you know what a catalytic converter is? - Yes. - So if you talk about a catalytic converter as if your 10, a catalytic converter really just catches the mess before it gets into the air. - Right. - Love, this is the insight God gave me, as love is a catalytic converter. - Yeah. - We're using, and this is the problem with language, is like, we can say the same thing differently, but there are different connotations attached to it. So does love convert fear into faith? Yes, at one level, it does. But when you get into the higher realms of understanding, what I got is a picture of love actually cleans faith. Faith is expectation that is anchored in a reality that is higher than circumstance. - Okay, say that again. - Faith is expectation that is anchored in a reality higher than circumstance. - Correct. - Which is why fear is faith in the wrong thing. - Correct. - So fear and faith are not opposites, they're a spectrum. It's one spectrum. When you have love, love is this great catalytic converter as a filter that comes through and removes anything that was not supposed to be there. And when you remove the toxins from the body, what happens to the body? - No. - It doesn't turn into a new body, it just becomes what the body was always supposed to be. It gets healthy. - Sorry, I was going as like, well, the liver process I was like going through my mind. - You're going through your leg. - Oh, so there's no drains back into the doctorate Michael. - Yeah. - Sorry, my mind. - So, love doesn't love can convert fear into faith, but it's difficult to convert, it's difficult to convert the left side of a thing into the right side of the thing. What it really does is it comes through like a giant filter and it removes any of the faith that's been injected into the wrong things, which leaves you with a godly form of faith. - I would agree. I would say that that's very analogous to the yeast converting sugar to alcohol. - You're right, actually. I don't understand medicine or the body. - Well, it's just, that's enzymatic. And so like that would be like a brewing process of like making wine or beer. So you put sugar into the solution, the enzymatic yeast like binds to the substrate and it comes through. - So we're literally saying the same thing. Converts, literally a catalytic converter. It takes fear in as a substrate converts it to like alcohol. It changes the chemical makeup. And here's what's interesting. Once the sugar's all consumed, the yeast basically dies 'cause it was feeding on it. And so like the love like converts the fear, once you're perfected in the process, there's no more sugar because the yeast has turned into, like the yeast has turned the fear into faith, if that makes sense. - And then it just, it is. - It is the process unravels and you're just left with faith. - So both analogies, it's like the same thing as being converted because of the absence of something. - Correct. And it's not just the filtering of it because the particulates would stay in the filter. It's the conversion of it back, the catalytic converter. - Right. - I have a personal question that has nothing to do with today's episode. But when I've told Jake before, I was like, I think we're living in a realm of scientific discovery. We're advancing so many, we're like, we're understanding so many of God's principles. I was like, I think that before we die, there will be a scientific way to convert water into wine and a scientific way to split us, see open. And there are all of these things like, we'll see that what God did is He just, He built an instrument and He began to play it. - Yeah. - Is that, that's what I would agree. So I said that the other day, and a friend of mine brought up the pillar of fire. He's like, you science to explain the pillar of fire? Like, ah, 'cause I thought, I said, I think like the whole Elijah with the 350 profits of bail was like a well-timed meter that just like blew the whole thing up. Like God used the natural and He goes, He's like, it basically, and this was John, Jake's roommate. This fire, he said the fire came down and like, lapped the water up almost like a tongue pulling it up. He's like, that's not a comment. I'm like, yeah, that's a good point. And so I used to say that too, and I think that that is still true. But I think if we jump a thousand years into the future, all this stuff will be scientifically explained. And here's the funny thing that happens. Atheists are like, there's not enough evidence for me to believe in God. And then the evidence comes out scientifically and they're like, see, now we don't need God because it's explained. It's like, so you just want to sin. Like either way, you're just gonna have your sin. Like it doesn't matter, you're not looking for actual information. You're trying to use information, however you need to, to protect your sin life. - Yeah, there was something that, there's two things that came to mind based off that. I feel like I'm supposed to share basically what you both said in just a different way. What I felt like I heard last week was three things, power, fear and worship. Those were the three key words. And power is the word power was basically meaning like the enemy's job or his plan is to strip you with power. That's his first, like, so you know the assignment that's against you your entire life or every single person doesn't matter if you're believer, atheist, non-believer, like your assignment is used to be stripped of your power so that way you're useless. The way that's done is by taking away fear and inducing it at the same time. By taking away the fear of God, you become prideful in your own way. And then by inducing fear, you eventually get so sick, like you're talking about, like you're so fearful of like, what's the point of life that you get driven down to a point of apathy so that what your power strips. So power strips, and then what you both are saying, and Taylor said this and you've said this is like love casts out all the fear, which means that it ascends you back up to power. So love is actually what reinstates the power and the word that I kept getting was worship. If you worship, what are you worshiping? Love, faith, like Jesus himself, it brings you back up all the way back up to the top as it worship brings you back to the top. The other piece that I've had some friends that we've talked about this recently is that it's interesting how, I mean, Taylor, you bring this up all the time with like the New Age movement. They, there is truth to what they're saying and things that they're figuring out. And it seems as though, this is hypothetical, but it seems as though as darkness is increasing, God is also going, well, I'm gonna tell you guys just as much. I know how to keep up. He's got, he's like, why are we figuring all these things out at such a rapid pace? Like the enemy's giving us all the New Age things, all of the tools, manifestation, like the law of attraction, all things that are real, but the perverted. And so God's pouring out those principles back at the same pace. Reminds me of the two lasers. It's like darkness is increasing. So the intensity of light is increasing to match it or something. Yeah. Man, I've just got a visual on that. I think we, I think we will be able to explain the pillar fire at some point. I just think that like we don't have the, like we couldn't, how would we have explained water turning into wine? 100 years ago. We wouldn't have been able to eat it. There's a, have you done, have you seen the research on Sodom and Gomorrah? Yeah, with the sulfur balls. With the, with the, the vases. No, I'm, so they've dug up, have you seen this? They've dug up a bunch of, there's these, historians who think they found the site of Sodom and Gomorrah. And I was reading about this the other day. And so one of, like a biblical scholar went out there and they started kind of pulling stuff up and they found these like bronze vases, which bronze would correlate to the time of Sodom. Like that, that's what they use for everything. And they pulled it up and on one side was like a glassy surface. And so the, the scholar was frustrated because he was like, they didn't have, they couldn't, they couldn't gloss the surface of something back then. Like they didn't have the technology to do this. So this is now, it's, it's contaminated, like the source, like if we have mixed timelines in here, it's not good. But they sent it over to the America to get it kind of like, look that, the guy sent back and they were like, oh, that's trinitite. Trinitite is the glassy surface that happens after a nuclear bomb goes off. No way. And they've done now excavations in scientific studies and they're, they found skeletons that basically just go all the way up to about the spine and just chart off. And so this scholar is now talking, he was talking about this. And he was like, they think based on the, the angle of the skeletal remains that there was an atomic bomb that went off at about 2,500 feet. Same thing you would see like a Hiroshima, right? 100%. There's trinitite all over the surface of different things because it melts it and it's one of the byproducts of nuclear. That's crazy. God newt the city. So, bro, tell me again, how we're not supposed to fear him. Yeah, well, okay, they were living in sense. So I get it. But like, okay, now, now we have, this is, we didn't discover nuclear fission until like how many thousands of years later. There's even a verse in there that talks about a future war, I think. And it says their eyes will be liquefied in their and like it describes a nuclear blast, and it's in Isaiah, I think, as a future prophecy. It's crazy. It's very, the only way that that could happen, the way it's describing their debts, it sounds like a nuclear radiological blast. - Yeah, so back to my wife, she was sharing the story. I mean, obviously I was there, sorry, remember all of this. Our first child, we got pregnant in 2018, and my wife has always been like, she has just got a gift of faith. And I've correlated now, like people with a gift of faith, they have it 'cause they have to use it all the time. We don't like that. Everyone wants like more faith, but they don't ever want to use that muscle. So then they don't have any faith. They're just atrophy to weigh. And so my wife has, she's got a gift of faith. She knows how to pray, but more than anything else, she has learned how to trust God. That's the number one thing. If you want more faith, you have to learn how to trust God, which is in conflict slightly with the true, but also nuanced fear and narrative of God the Father, because you will never be able to trust something that you are also afraid of if you're stuck in that paradigm. - Correct, it's love has to cast and I would love it. - Love has to cast it out. And so she got a revelation, and she picked up a book, if you're watching this and you're pregnant by this book, it's called Supernatural Childbirth. Supernatural Childbirth. And she started praying, and she had a list of things she was believing God for Kate, my first daughter's delivery. And God kept speaking to her about perfect love, and how much she loves her. And she just got, you could see her light up at different times, like you just, you just talked to God and she would just get so. In fact, once I'm, we had a small group over at the house, and one of the ladies at the small group was, kept her after, and she's like, "I just want you to be careful because you don't have a baby without pain." And so I just want you to know that, like if you do have pain, it doesn't mean that God doesn't love you, love a love. And Lindsay, like, shut that down quickly, like immediately. She's like, "No, no, this is what God is gonna do for me." That there's a massive, massive, massive obstacle with faith, and it's if you're surrounded by people who don't have it. - Well, that's why Jesus keeps telling people to leave the room before he does anything. - 100%. - Yeah, and so I was a baby at this point. Like, 2018, I was still in like, group and church worship leader, but you know, the Bible, whatever, I'm done with it. But I kept my mouth shut. Do you remember when John the Baptist? - Yeah, his dad. - Yep, his dad. - And then-- - If he would have been able to speak, he would have injected all sorts of doubt into the-- - And doubt invalidates promise. And so, - Okay. - The angels just said, "Cool, you can't speak no more. You're done speaking." And so I felt like I was just gonna be quiet, but I had no faith for it at all. Like, zero. 'Cause I'm like, well, it's kind of like a medical thing. You literally are pushing a kid out of your, like, you know, out of your, your privates. That doesn't exist without pain. That's pretty painful. So, you do you, but I just kept my mouth shut. And we wake up at like three in the morning and she's like, I'm in labor, we gotta go. And in my head, I'm like, labor's last a long time, you don't have to go. Like, we're fine. But I just kept my mouth shut, I packed our stuff up. We get to the hospital and she tells the nurse, she walks in by herself, tells the person at the front. She's like, I think I'm in labor. And you know what the receptionist said? She said, honey, you're not in labor. - 'Cause you would be screaming. - You're too calm. - Yeah. - Take a seat, we'll have someone come visit you. And Lindsay's like, no, I'm pretty sure I'm in labor. She's like, okay. - Like, sure, right? - Have a seat. And the, she's taken back to a back room in the nurse. There's one nurse, she kind of checks around. And she gets down there and she looks at me and she said, you're about to have a baby right now. And she runs out, nine people come into the room. Kate, my daughter, is born six minutes after that. From start to finish, is less than an hour and a half. - And she wasn't screaming. - 10 plus two, nope. They didn't even have a time to get her IV in. She's like, she looks at the nurse, she's like, I think I'm having a baby and I needed to push. Like, no, no, no, don't push. We have to get your IV in and Lindsay's like, no, I'm pushing. And she's born. And I was like, what? - What just happened? Kate's born, everything's good. Two hours later, Lindsay's up walking around in the halls. And I was like, yo, this woman is like crazy. - Yeah. - And then it happens again with Harrison. This labor was probably 20 minutes longer. - Yeah. - No pain, nothing. - Yeah. - And dude, when you look at doubts, doubt is like the mother killer. Like it is, it comes in and it eats like, termize it, eat at the foundations of what you're believing for. - Amen. - And that's, we gotta circle it back at some point to fear because I think you can watch an episode like this and you can get a whole lot of bites from it. And it's like, well, that's really cool. You saw them in Gamora with Nuke to awesome praise God. But how do we connect this in with like the everyday person who every day you wake up and you feel anxious? Every day you wake up, you feel anxiety. How do you combat this? - I've got a good tie wrap up at the end for that, I think. - Good. - And so we'll get there. I think it'll bring people a lot of peace. - One more thing, sorry to cap up to Sirius Lindsay. It was the love of God, not the fear of God, but the fear was already present. - She note new God. - Yes. - And that came from fear in the beginning because the fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge. Now she knows God who is love. And so the love cast out fear. - I understand and I still disagree slightly, but I'm okay being wrong, but like if you are in a covenant relationship with the spouse and the only reason you are in relationship with that spouse is because you're afraid of them. I don't think that's what God intended. - No, and I'm saying in the beginning, like if you ask your wife, was there ever a point in your life where you had like a moment of just realization, like, oh my God, what have I done? Like this, I'm sinning against the God of all creation. Like this just like download of like, like, oh my God, I'm so sorry, what have I done? That repentance moment of changing your mind. I bet she'll say, well, actually now that I think about it, there was a moment in my life where there was like fear. And that fear gives way to knowledge which lets you like helps you know God in relationship and then that perfect love converts out the fear. - That's what the parable of the fear. - That's what the parable of the talents is about. - Right. - The guy, the five and the 10, all got to the same, the five, 10 and the one all got to the same place of fear of my master's coming home. - Yeah. - He's coming home. - Oh, well. - What will he say? In the first one, just never moved on past that point. - He stayed in the fear. - The other two kept going. And they said, cool, now what do we do? - Wow. - You said, Taylor, you said this the other week, the difference between fear and apathy is the car's driving towards you on the road. And fear will get you to move. You'll go out of the way. Apathy, you'll stand there and just get hit. - Yeah, one's an impetus for action. - So the first has one talent. Ap becomes apathetic, doesn't move. And he's just like, well, and then he gets called wicked. - Yeah, look at her. - And I would love to hear you guys go a little bit deeper into this conversation of, I'm just gonna say it outright. And we just, and I can say this because we saw this all morning, even just on the video that you made, Taylor, he said, a lot of people don't wanna come to Jesus because of Christians of a misrepresentation. - Yeah. - In the entire comments, I'm not, there wasn't a single person in at least, - Oh yeah, people think I'm like a heretic. - Every single person. - Every single person proves the point that this is a majority, I would say, or at least a high percentage of Christians are so cynical and skeptical that no one would ever want to become like them or follow who they follow or just be around them. It was interesting, we were just talking about this yesterday. I was a debated somebody on TikTok for fun. And they followed me after and didn't kick me off. Am I saying that's the validating factor? No. But there's a reason why sinners wanted to hang out with Jesus. There is a reason why. And there's a reason why, well, no, I won't go into that. But point being, I would love to hear your guys' thoughts on how we even, maybe you've already covered this, but how we got to a place of such a high level of skepticism and cynicism even within the body of Christ, in the church. And this goes for non-believers as well because this is what keeps people from power. - I would say it's a resistance to change. A lot of times when I do exorcisms, they're not even afraid of the demons, they're afraid of who they might be if this works. They're like, I know myself now. I know the sinful mic, and I've been working on him and I almost got it down. Like I'm just so close to being happy. It's almost, I've almost got it, or I just need a little bit more time than never really happened. and they're like, but if I go through this process, I'm erasing all my own progress and starting with the new slate and I don't know that version of myself I've never lived without porn. I've never lived without gambling I've never not been an alcoholic and I'm afraid of what that looks like because it's the unknown It might be better. It might be worse But this I know and that is something new and I don't want to change because There's almost a fear of the unknown of the potential of who I might be and I don't know who that person is And I'm just scared to go down that road and I've almost got my I've almost worked this out myself Like no you haven't you just tear down this kingdom you've built and let's go to the new I'm like but I'm so close to just being happy, you know And they they can't let go of their own empire to go on to the new creation That's the fear I think that and I think they resist things because they're afraid if I accept this this changes something about my beliefs Yeah, and that I don't know where that path leads This is why I love you because you have these Things that you've taken from scripture and God shown you what they mean and there's so much nuance and But I'm stuck on the I'm stuck on the fear thing because I don't think in any context Fear can be fit through the lens of Jesus Yeah, I would let me read Romans 13 5 before you know before you respond to that. Let me just put the Bible on this For 13 for those in authority are God's servants for the good of society But if you break the law you have reason to be alarmed for their God's agents of punishment Verse 5 You are compelled to obey them not just to avoid punishment But because you want to live with the clean conscious. Here's a different translation. This is the the mirror Bible Romans 13 5 do not let fear of punishment be your motivation Rather embrace a good conscious anytime. There's a anytime. There's a A cause affect you have the temptation for transactional obedience correct and I think that there's something stuck with I think there's something stuck here and it's not necessarily that something is necessarily wrong I just have to draw attention to it because I I God wants relationship. Yeah, not surfed them and so if you are a servant Then you you can live in this realm of fear but it means something different When you get into sonship it is I think almost in conflict that we can be a son and live and fear yes And I I think it's incredible and nuanced. I don't understand all of it, but I know that like My trust in God has to be bigger than my fear of punishment 100 or my fear of hell. Jesus dude that They weren't Jesus wasn't talking about His predominant message was not like repents. You don't go to hell It was repent because the kingdom of heaven is here right now and that speaks to his like what he was even thinking about what his focus point was on like I want you to exist in this realm now bring heaven to earth. We're not going to heaven like stop thinking bringing bring heaven here. That's your mission How do you bring heaven to earth? I don't know if you can do that if the If there's any transaction in you and I don't know how to I'm not disproving what you're saying. I'm just saying that there's this other side that if it's not counterbalanced Then you go off and you live a Christian life in servanthood. Yeah, rather than living a Christian life in sonship Well, it's the same thing with taking grace-based statements and bringing them into court You're borrowing legal terminology that might be that might bring an into your grace relationship And that's both of those are wrong The law has no place. This is why Moses didn't go into the promise land because he represented the law and the law has no place in the promise land It's a place of grace milk and honey and milk spoils in a day and honey endorsed forever Just like a talent is a life's wage and a denari as a day's wage There's this repeating theme throughout the Bible and so Moses doesn't have any place. He's the law He doesn't get to enter the promise land You don't take legal statements and bring them into the prayer closet because that's a grace-based environment And you don't take grace statements and bring them into court because it's not going to be respected Yeah, so both of those are wrong. I totally agree. It's a it's a right lead to it's a right to vibe in the middle Like everything else. It's balanced. Don't go to the left or right. Yeah The center and real quick just to jump back to your wife because this blew my I think it changed my theology Um What was so crazy about your wife What she said is that I've been saying for a while that the curse of Genesis 3 is in full effect Even have this in the book. I said uh, I don't know like I'm being sarcastic. I don't know G I like are people still dying? Right like RP is is pregnancy still painful and you know, is it still hard to grow crops And um, I was talking to a friend of mine on a podcast that a while back And he said actually If you have faith those things can be pacified the the the curse can be broken through faith and I was like bro Show me a woman who's had painless deliveries like multiple painless deliveries because she believed and I was saying It's arcasticly and then your wife just nonchalantly dropped out and like I'm an idiot like I'm such a fool And so I talk her and she she says and here's the crazy thing with the curse of Genesis 3 The pagan religions when you read the other books so to so to speak You see the curse of Genesis 3 continually pop back up and it's like you don't notice But the curse of Genesis 3 deals with childbirth right Crops like it can be hard to get crops from the earth and death What is the what are the main three promises of the pagan gods will give you a longer life longevity will give you increased fertility and Uh, you'll will increase your crop yield they mirror it's the they're promising to alleviate the symptoms of the curse of Genesis 3 But they don't have the authority to break it and you can tell who's in charge by which god put the curse which one can break it And which ones are only promising to alleviate it all the pagan gods not that they're not real Entities they're the notful and they're the fallen angels or the children of them And you know, there's different like subcategories. They're all just creative beings They're not intimidating. They're not mysterious. They're just onechadians some smarter than others. It's just like this You world of like Created creatures that have taken different tangent lines and like it's like you guys suck. You're not impressive I'm not afraid like you know, I mean literally not afraid. Yeah, and so your wife showed me um in actual like Anticdole evidence like the like I now know someone who claims that this is the case And like I truly believe her when there's like evidence of it and stuff that that the curse of Genesis 3 can be broken I said so faith breaks the curse and your wife's like no, it's like love and I'm like She's like because the love cast out the fear and like this is what we're talking about today like what do you think? What's that this is a catalytic converter? Yeah, it converts. Yeah, and it's like this is literally what we're talking about today It's like literally the revelation guy gave me like two nights ago. Yeah. Yeah. It's like it changed So I realized it's like beauty in the beast as I instantly thought of beauty in the beast He's cursed and only like a true kiss before the leaf falls like you know the last leaf on the rose falls like You know, I mean sleeping beauty like only the true love can break the curse And I'm like they just stole this from the Bible like it's plagiarism. It's real. It's biblical theft. Everything's literary biblical theft Yeah, first John 418 You know this verse First John 418 not perfect perfect low cast all off here, but when you when you actually deconstruct the language Love never brings fear for fear is always related to punishment Loves perfection drives the fear of punishment far from our hearts Yeah, whoever walks constantly afraid of punishment has not reached loves perfection once again. We have the spectrum correct happening Here's another translation fear cannot coexist in the realm of love The perfect love union that we're talking about expels fear cast all fear out fear holds on to an expectation of crisis And interprets it as a do punishment right so that's the sticking point for me is like There's almost a there's almost a spectrum that we have in like when you're a baby Like you're saying when you're a when you're a kid you have a healthy you could call maybe fears like a healthy Respect of like the consequences But then when you mature and you step into taking your rights of passage and your inheritance and you start growing You realize that this is where we have to have Rome as a 28 because To be afraid of something temporary means that we don't understand God's game theory And if someone is afraid and their relationship with God is based on the the Mortal version of fear what it means is that we probably just have a runway issue And we don't understand that it's God's love that works everything out for the good. There's actually nothing to be afraid of correct So our timelines have to get longer and the the older you get the further out you can see correct the more you can understand So it's indicative when you are wrestling with fear I believe that it's indicative that you are You are stuck at a level of maybe a maturity Yeah, and because you're in that level of a maturity, you know Kate my daughter. She's five. She's amazing But dude she can only see to like the next five minutes. That's all she can see she can't see anything past that But but I can see further than that and so the higher up you go in the maturity scale the longer you can see and the less bothered You're going to be with short-term interferences. I call kids instant gratification terrorists that 100% that's exactly what they are We're just slightly above them in that but like what you're saying is we need to even extend it out to an eternal mindset. That's the difference between happiness and joy. Happiness is elation based on temporary things that will pass away. Joy is the same thing but rooted in eternal things. So it's a longer term. There's no fear in joy. There's fear and happiness because now that you're happy you have to maintain it. Joy's eternal. There's no such thing as maintaining because there's no time. It's based on things outside of time. That's a great analogy. I'll add a third step. These are short term adults are long term and I'm not talking about adults as an age and talking about maturity. Kids are short term adults are long term and then sons and daughters with authority. There is no term. Everything's already happened. It's eternal. We have an eternal mindset. We already know the end. We know everything that's already happened. We're in a temporary blip right here. So what is there to be afraid of? Back to the topic of game theory. Have you studied any game theory? Yeah. So like broke out is the ultimate game theorist. Bro the prisoner's dilemma is the cross. Can you share that real fast? Yeah. So you have Christ with the banker in the middle, dishing out the wages of eternal life, eternal death and literally two prisoners in a dilemma. One who chooses one one who chooses the other. It's the prisoner's dilemma. That's game theory. It's on the cross. Like God's making fun of us from 2000 years in the past. Like we're such idiots. Like and I'll tell you this, they atheist are no, no. The original framework with Axel Rodden Dawkins didn't have like a banker. It was just the two. It's like just like you, it just take a loss on this one. Okay. Like Christ wins. He's trolling you from the past. You're an idiot. You think you're a monkey who created yourself an accident. I love calling them monkeys because they correct me. Say no. We're apes. I'm like I just love hearing you say it. I just, I'd say the monkey just so you correct me. And then they're like like I don't believe in fairy tales. You think you're an accident. I'll ape who created yourself from nothing and you're talking to me about fairy tales. Like brought come on. But real quick, go back to those verses. If you change the words out with yeast, sugar and alcohol, which is the process of turning water to wine, literally the fermentation of water with yeast and sugar into alcohol, which is wine. This is dumb dude at this point. No, it's no good. No, it's not. It's wild. No, it's. Keep going. I'm saying dumb is a cool. Yeah, it's great. It's like when we're talking about like someday we'll figure out how to turn water to wine. I just hit me like we already know how that like it's like that. And it says like fear has no place in love. The realm of love. The realm of love just like sugar has no place in the realm of yeast. Yeah. But it says until it's perfected, perfect love. That means all the sugar has been converted to alcohol through yeast. All the fear has been converted to faith through love. Does that make sense? Yes. Same pattern. Yes. It's like you're wine, which cheeses does. It just all hit me. I was like, oh my god, we're so stupid. Like we're such, it's so obvious. We're thinking more complex in God's like if you would just like look at it like a child, I've already done all the work for you. Yeah. It's just like right here. Just like stop complicating it. Yeah. Man, it's so beautiful. So game theory, I'm going to, I've got, I've got four steps that I feel like gotta, I just helped me and because I've gone through a lot of trauma the last two years. And trauma is real. Like never, never ever once would I ever discount like somebody going through a traumatic situation and being in health challenges and sometimes this, you get hit. Which is assigned by the way, I believe that you can, you can, you can almost pinpoint the size of the territory God wants to give you by the intensity and the velocity of your problems and resistance. Because when you're going through like what I've been going through and we've talked about this when I'm going to just thing after thing after thing after thing, man, this weekend's me and my wife, we started just praying and shutting down different things like, do you want me to share that prayer with you that God gave me? Please. God gave me a prayer to pray for specifically if you're wrestling with attacks on your finances. So like there are different prayers for different things and I was talking with someone at the church who heads up the deliverance ministry after I called you an hour later, I called this person and said, how do you know if this and that and then blah, blah, blah, blah, and they were like, well, Holy Spirit is the counselor. Have you ever thought about just asking Holy Spirit what to pray? And I was like, no, that's probably a good idea. We never go there first. And so I did that and I got this prayer and I'm going to pray it and then I want to share what happened after that. So here's the prayer and you can pray this or just use it as a way to talk to God about what you should be praying for yourself. Here's the prayer. You ready? God please remove the keys from the enemy's supply routes. So the next time they try to pass into the territory you have given me, they will be denied entry. Turn your attention to these trespassers so they will be caused anguish and be removed. Leave your breath, God, into the wind and blow it into the enemy's camp causing pain, confusion, and anguish. Blind to them every time they look upon my territory, my dominion or anything connected to it. Block the doors that they have used and replace them with blocks of angels guarding the pathways and cover the doorways to my home and my dominion with the blood of Jesus to declare no entrance. I ask you to tread down my enemies as you did for King David. These extract seven times whatever they have stolen from my territory, write down the names of the evil spirits who have meddled and inflict double punishment for interfering with the Lord's anointed. For the trouble that these defeated trespassers have caused me, please double my territory as you promise in Isaiah 61-7. I repent for self-righteousness and any other worship of false gods, idols, money, power, position, or even skills that I have accidentally allowed my heart to trust. I ask for the provision of the Lord, not the provision of man. Amen. So it's aggressive. Jesus name. I would put in Jesus name. Just to send it out. Just to send it out. Just to send it out. For the legalistic folks out there, put in Jesus name. It's not just legalistic. In April, what a power. I pray similar things and I got it from the Spirit and I'm just hearing it. I'm like, "God, I pray when they look upon my house, let them be blinded from afar and terrified, even come near." It's so crazy. But the way Jesus teaches us to pray is structured like a letter. Have you ever heard this? I haven't, but I'm interested. He says, "Our Father, that's the recipient who art in heaven, that's the address. Howl would be their name, cellutation, thy kingdom come, that's what you do in a letter. How are you doing?" Yeah. Then you ask for what you need. Give us this day or daily bread in Jesus' name, amen. It's structured like a letter, literally, because we're sending correspondence to have him when we pray. And there's a whole thing that happens. There's angels mounting up on horses, riding to the right throne of God. They burn it. They breathe it in. This is where the Catholics get the whole angels, prayed angels. That's addressing your letter to the mail man. It never gets there. I send you a letter and I say, "Hey, I'm addressing this to Bob. Go give it to Taylor." He's like, "I don't know who Taylor is. You address it to him. I'll take it there." It's a letter and that's how you talk to God in prayer. And he talks back to you in a letter, literally in mail, like half the New Testament is mail, like letters written to churches. He talks back to us in the letter he already wrote, but he's outside of time. And so it creates the communication loop. But the stamp to mail that letter is in Jesus' name because he paid the price for the correspondence. And so when you don't end a prayer in Jesus' name, it's like putting a letter in the mail boss with no stamp. You have to end it in Jesus' name always, is my personal opinion. Okay, well I added it. I added it to the prayer. But here's the interesting turn of events. So I started praying this. My wife and I, we started praying for this. And I told you the story of re-pending for self-righteousness and for money and all of that stuff, not money, but the trust that was placed into that. This was Saturday and then like a legit miracle happened on Sunday that cannot be explained and will never be explained. Monday morning at 515, I found Lindsay in the bathroom passed out. And I woke her up, not sure what was going on. We got her back in bed and then she passed that again while I was right in front of her. This is one of the scariest moments of my entire life. You never ever have to think, you don't know how to think through like what do I do if I actually lose this person. We took her to the hospital. She's just severely dehydrated. But she had water the day before so we're confused about how that happened. They put two liters of liquids back in her and they're like everything that looks fine. Did they check her kidneys? Her kidneys are fine. Yeah, they checked everything. No markers in her blood except for dehydration but her blood pressure was in the 70s when we got to the hospital. The doctor was like the oxygen can't get to the brain when the blood pressure is in the 70s. You're talking about the top number, the top number. Okay. The bad number you don't want. I don't remember what the bottom number was. That's like, that's bad. It came back up. It was like 115, 118. We left. She slept for a day or two. And then I started praying on health because what will happen is when you shut down the supply lines of one area, they'll just skip to the next one. One up, bro. Can they get access to the next one? This is what I tell people. I was like, look, after this thing, prepare for, they're going to try to punish you for getting rid of them and they're going to call a friend. Okay. Do they want to play games? Hey, Jeff. Come on, we need you over here. Like we need to bat around the gates. Like they're gonna go to a different door, try to ram back in. - So then I started praying another prayer and this was Tuesday. This was yesterday in the morning. Again, just asking only for one to pray. What is your one to pray? And the prayer that came out and I wrote it down loosely, but I haven't like revisited it yet. I just haven't had time. Like this was this was yesterday that I was starting to pray this. Anyone who touches the health of anyone of my family or anyone important to my family, blind them and remove their ability to communicate for 10 years. I am learning how to pray prayers that will make it so costly to interfere. - Right. - That at some point, and Kevin Zadai, I don't know if you've studied Kevin Zadai at all. He died when to heaven. Talk to Jesus came back. He's written books about it and he's just a preacher. But he said, "I will get into these moments where I can tell them in spiritual warfare." And I'll just be like, "Okay, cool, I'm gonna fast." - Yeah. - And if every day that you keep bothering me, I'm just gonna add another day to the fast. - Correct, one hundred percent. - And then he's like, "I'll get to another point," where it's like, "I'm just gonna go give money to the poor." Like at a certain point, you realize that whatever interference happens, there is a consequence that I will pray into the situation and I will physically double up my obedience to what God has asked me to do so that there is a counter maneuver happening. - You got it. - And that's like, "Dude, that's where we live." And people might be freaked out by this. Like, I was freaked out by this a couple of years ago. To the point where I was like, "I don't even wanna pray for, like, I wouldn't rather just live here and then leave me alone." Then-- - The ceasefire, yeah. - That doesn't work. Can you talk about that ceasefire? - Yeah, it's a trap. They'll let you get comfortable and they'll start to build deeper infrastructure under the surfaces. They'll reinforce their foundation, dig deeper trenches, like you said, the inverted skyscraper type thing. And by the time the veils torn off, you're like, "Ah, it's like the dog in." They dug in. - Yeah. - How, where do I even start with this? And you thought, "I thought things were fine 'cause they went dormant." It's like, you didn't. You knew you took an agreement. What did you think they were doing under the surface? - And this is bib-- - That was me. - Right. - Couple years ago. - Even the flood. Like, God was separating the world into panjeea under the surface of the flood. Demons will use the ceasefire as the water and they'll rearrange everything under the surface so that when the water drains and now you realize the problem's bigger than ever, it's like, "I don't know what do we do." Like, they dug in. Do not take the agreement. Do not take the ceasefire. - And it's not even something like three years ago, I was, that, notice even that agreement is a fear-based agreement. But I don't want them to mess with me. I don't want. So I'm gonna compromise. I'm not gonna walk in authority in the hopes that I won't be battered like a battered rent. But then Holy Spirit showed me this. It's not about, it's not a physical war. And while I was holding my wife's hand in the hospital and praying for, I thought about that moment three years ago when I made a decision to, like, I'm not even gonna try to get into the next level because I don't want the resistance that comes with it. And I got a picture of just like, warfare happens in a moment. Warfare is not the hard part. I said, "Okay, well, what is the hard part?" Holy Spirit said, "Getting you to fight." And so this is a catch this picture. It took me three years to even decide to enter warfare as prayer. But once I entered, this is like Thursday of last week, bro. And like miracle, miracle, miracle. It's not hard. I'm not like, I'm not, there's no casualties. It's not like a physical war. There is like this overwhelming power that we can tap into and access through our relationship with Jesus. And when you pray, it's not like, well, you have to pray to get. You have to sort of pray to get it. You have to just like go through this exhaustive process. Warfare happens in a moment. - Yeah. - A moment. But what takes so long is getting people to the place where they're willing to fight. That's the consequence. That's the collateral damage. - This is straight biblical. So this is when they're going into the Promised Land to clear the territory that the giants hold. - How do you even thought about this? - Right. - And what do they say? They're like, if we go in there, we're gonna have to fight. It's like, I don't, what if we just stay here in the, you've been complaining about being the desert for 40 years. Yeah, but that's gonna be hard. If we go in there, we're gonna have to fight, right? - It was good. - But like God's like, don't worry about it. You're not going, bro. Right? Like I'm sending, I'm sending the two people, you know what I mean? And when you get in there, now it's like, we have to fight, but the Lord is with you in the battle. The land gets cleared out, and now you have access to this milk and honey. - Yeah. - It's literally, this is the clearing of the Promised Land, like in your life, so to speak. - Yeah. - And we don't, I don't think we have time to do it, but I can go through Exodus and show you all the elements of the stories and how it's all our current Christian walk. And this is the point where we're talking is when you like, get like, start getting out of the desert season into the Promised Land. And there's new challenges. It's bigger problems. Joel Olstein, like I love him and pray for him all the time. I essentially see him as a heretic who's leading people astray. I hope that's the thing. Anyways, but at Broken Clocks right twice a day, he said, - So you think as a heretic, are you about to quote him? - Well, you know, he's not wrong. - He's a good thing that he said before. Okay. He said, don't pray for a blessing. If you're not willing to take the burden that comes along with it. Don't be shocked that you're entering a new and bigger phase with new problems. That's straight biblical. It's like don't pray for the Promised Land and then complain about the giants. Like take the good with the bad, like accept that God has his own purpose. It's not just he's giving you a donut, right? He's like, yeah, but like, I want to teach you something with this. So there's going to be a little friction, a little attention, all that stuff, right? And so one thing we can talk about that I think we disagree with. I think you're you lean more towards like seven mountain theology, right? - Yeah. - I think it's inverted eschatology. I think like John McArthur, I don't agree with him either fully and anything. But he has the exact, he's like, we lose here like on this earth. Like if you read Revelation, we lose. Seven mountain theology is like we win. And so like that's a conversation. That's an interesting conversation. I don't know much about eschatology or revelation, but it's just not my area, but that'd be an interesting conversation. - I don't know anything about eschatology of revelation. So I'm probably not qualified to have that debate. I know that there are differences in opinions on like did the rapture or like did revelationary happen or like what is, I haven't studied any of it, but frankly, it's because I don't care. - I don't care. Right. What does it matter? Atress God, when he comes, he comes, not my, not my, like I'm just, I'm busy doing, I'm like David in the field fighting off the bears and stuff, right? And that's what, you're really the priest pastor and like profit of your own home, the shepherd of your house. And what you're talking about is I finally stopped letting the wolves eat my sheep and I'm like got my sling out and I'm just nailing them right in the face. And I have no apologies, like screw 'em. I'm not making, like well, the wolves have to eat too. Like what if they bite me? Like forget all that, right? Like it's straight up like not, no more playing games. This is my property, this is my family, this is my flock and I have no problem smashing someone's face with a rock if they get anywhere near. Like that's the level you gotta get to in the spiritual warfare game. - Not physically, we don't condone any of that physically. - No spiritually. - Yes. Also don't, I don't know that the, I don't know that the paradigms of what we use on earth, like in this realm work with the spiritual paradigms. Like I almost don't even think that winning and losing is, like for somebody to be like, we lose in this realm or we lose on this earth. Okay, well, okay, Jesus was a liar. - Well, so his point is just saying as it reads, it would appear that the story as the Bible reads seems to indicate that we're, we, you know, these are the ones that have come out of the great tribulation who've earned the right to put on the, I don't know if it's his earned the right, I should be careful with that, who put on the garments, right? And can enter the city through the gate, eat the tree. And so it's like, what's this tribulation if we're taking back society, you know, it's almost, so he would quote verses and say, let's just read it, read the book of Revelation and there's not a lot in there about us taking society back. There's a lot in there about us being crushed and defeated in the saints will be like crushed in that. - I think that's demonic. - Yeah. - That's a demonic assignment. - What, how so? - If you have America as a country and America believes full and 100% that we are losing America, then you don't improve the infrastructure. You don't improve the schools. You don't improve government. You don't improve civilization or society. It is a, it is a horrible interpretation in my opinion of Godly authority. Because if we're not supposed to make any, if we're just gonna lose it anyway, it's just like wait for the, wait for the rapture to happen. - Right, there's almost this inherently easiness. - But dude, can you not see? - Like wicked God. - When the demons are speaking to you and they were trying to trap you and trip you up and manipulate you, that speaks to me of like, that's the most manipulative bull that I've ever heard in my life. On like, well, nothing matters because we lose in the end. First of all, what is winning and losing? That doesn't even, that doesn't make sense. - We would have to actually start a whole another episode and define that. What does that even mean? - It does go from that. - Does the Bible teach you the best way to live? Yes, the only way to live. Okay, well, not that's not true. Well, it teaches you the only correct way to live. Like in other words, there's only one way, take the way, right? Yeah. There are other options, but if you want like salvation, there's one way. So God has given you a gift to interpret scripture and have understanding. However, the next level I think is understanding just the nuances of it. Because if the Bible is the best way, then you would say it's the only way, but that's not technically true. Correct is in the realm of subjective narratives. And we do have to fix the narrative. Like the narrative has to be God's narrative. But I cannot ever imagine God being like, well, look, try your hardest, but everything crumbles and you lose everything in the end anyways. But you're the head and not the tail. And you're supposed to bring heaven to earth. It's like one of those is. Well, so there are other statements like the first is last. If you love your life, you'll lose it. You must die to live like essentially, like give up your life so that you can find it. The servant king. And so I guess the theory there would be that there's the appearance of losing so that you can win. In other words, like in Revelation, not about losing, it's almost like the he's strong in our weakness. So we have to be weak for him to come save the day. I think that that's the theme that is being promoted there. 100%, but then you have like all the Old Testament that now becomes an issue. Right. Abraham was not weak. David wasn't. But you have others like Gideon, like Ovaliant Man of War and he's hiding in a wine press. So like God was strong in his weakness. Like, I could, you know what I mean? Like I could see it both ways. And I agree. I'm not, I don't agree with John McArthur. I'm using him as an extreme example. Okay. I don't even know who he is. Yeah. Oh, he's like the head Calvinist, like which should be problematic right from the beginning. Calvinism is stupid. Yeah, we should do a whole thing on that. But to go back to fear real quick and just to, yeah, talk about fear. And I've got four points and then we can wrap it up. Awesome. Well, this has been so praise the Lord God almighty. Thank you, Lord. So fear is just like you said, there's always this like catching up of science. Like, oh, we figured this out. Like you mean you're 2000 years late, but okay, like sure. Let us, let us hear what you figured out so that we can show you where it was in the Bible the whole time. Right. So it would be attachment theory, which is the big buzz right now and like psychic at the psychiatric world, right? Therapy, cognitive behavioral therapy, dialectical behavior therapy, all that. And the big thing that everyone's talking about right now is attachment theory. Dr. Sue Johnson wrote a book called Hold Me Tight, Hold Me Close. I was forget which it's told me close or hold me tight, whatever. And it talks about attachment theory. And the big takeaway is that it's all every argument is based in fear, right? Like for instance, when people like pray over people to lengthen their legs, so you've ever seen those, those miracles. Like we're like, it's like, oh, pray and like the leg will lengthen, right? That's actually called axiom subluxation. It's a problem with the neck where the axis and atlas are twisted. And it, it creates a torsion, a temporary torsion and injury on the spinal cord, which like shifts the muscles and the hip girdle, which shortens one leg. And so like when we're praying like that, the God shortening her leg, the healing is actually happening in their neck. I've had a, my mom, that happened to my, my mom, but her leg itself, like the bone wasn't grown. Oh, really? That would be interesting. Her bone got stunted when she was a kid on a, on a bicycle accident and she never got it healed. And so her leg was always shorter. Yeah. She'd be in worship and she couldn't stand for one, three minutes. You have to sit down. Yeah. All of her shoes ever, ever she'd to try out fun, she'd iron man's, her right shoe was always destroyed. Yeah. And she'd left shoe brand new. Because of the pressure. Yeah. Brand new. And so they like literally the bone grew out. Wow. Well, I watched it. I've seen the crazy stuff. My dad and I both, we both, I mean, I grew up with my dad and he was like picking apart all this stuff and it's different now, but we've even like we, we, we saw, like my mom was like, my mom was like, there's fire, there's fire like she's like, there's burning. She's like, she's like, she's like, boiling her eyes out. My mom's like, that's not my mom normally. And literally ever since then, I mean, we check every time I go to Florida, we're going to Florida in two weeks and I'm going to check her shoes. Again, I always check her shoes in the left ones. Always just as worn out as the right one. Great. And I'm watching the church live stream and she's standing up the entire time. Wow. So I could just be wrong about this, but typically when, uh, medically when a leg is shorter than the other, it's, it's a problem in the neck, axial subluxation. That's beautiful. And I'm going to dig deeper into that, maybe even see like X-rays if they're available, like it's fascinating for me to see like God do these things. He's like the creator. Even when Jesus picks up like dirt and spits in it and puts in the guy's eyes, he's saying, like, I'm the creator. I made you out of dust and I'm going to fix you with dust. Yeah. Like it's like, oh my gosh. Like it's like God picking up dust, breathing into like Adam, like Christ picking up the dust spitting in it and like it's like, oh, he's the creator. He's like, Mike dropping himself as the creator. So sometimes we see things and it's actually something else. We see a shortened leg. It's actually actually in the neck, axial subluxation. And so fear is the same way. It's like, why are you fidgeting? Why are you like rocking your chair, for instance, right? Why are you nervously, whatever? And it's like, oh, I'm just what I fill in the mask, but really it's the fear underneath. Yeah. It, the legs, the legs, the problem, but it's really the neck, right? Um, in sales, right? Um, I was on a sales call in India a long time ago. And this lady kept asking, well, what, what is the, what's the quality of hotels on these trips? And the sales rep kept like answering, we only have three stars, whatever. I came on the line. I was the sales manager, came on the line. It's like, oh, ma'am, just so you know, your son's going to be totally safe on this trip. Like we've never had any issues where we, we partner with so and so and like we've done like 12 of these trips already. And there's never been an incident. Your son is totally safe with us. And she goes, thank you for finally answering my question. And that wasn't her question. But I saw that she was putting a logical objection over an emotional question. Yeah. And I took off the mask and just answered the emotional. And they're like, I don't get what just happened and I explained like there are people pretend that they're making a logical objection, but really they're asking an emotional question. That's how fear works too. We have the manifestation of all these things, fidgeting arguments, whatever, but really it's fear. Women start an argument because at least he's giving me attention because I'm afraid of him not giving me attention, right? It's always fear. An attachment theory starts to get at the root of this. It's like some big mic drop. It's all fear. It's like it's just the Bible. Like you stole this from the Bible. And you didn't even figure out fear of what? Like this, this is not impressive. Like Sire Su, like this isn't that great. Like great job plagiarizing the Bible and like then leaving it half baked, right? But what the fear really is, there's, it's fear of three things predominantly, right? Everyone's trying to do the same three things for the same three reasons. We want to love and be loved, right? That's the manifestation. That's the mask. But we're actually afraid of divorce, right? We want a place to call our own, but we're actually afraid of homelessness. We want to leave a legacy and because we're actually afraid of death. So death, divorce and displacement are the top three traumas and like love and be loved a place to call my own and legacy are the masks, the manifestation, the short legs, but the problem's really like in the trauma. So we, everyone thinks the pursuit of happiness is going to solve the problem. That's the defense mechanism for the underlying traumas. And those traumas happened all at the same time in the Garden of Eden. We lost our home. So homelessness becomes a trauma where like we're kicked out of the garden and it's in mercy. But like I said, like it's really like this misunderstanding. Like he, dad kicked me out of the home. He's a jerk. Like if I would have left you, we had eight from the tree of like life after eating from the tree of death and you would have lived forever dead, which is hell. And so I'm saving you. I'm sending myself to fix sin and death and then I'll give you access back to the tree of life, which is the kingdom of heaven and the parable of the sower. The seed grows into an orchard in our hearts. It's regrowing the spiritual garden of Eden in our hearts, which is what the fruit of the spirit are all about. The kingdom of heaven coming here is the spiritual garden growing in our hearts because we're vessels, literally we're planters. Like God is regrowing the garden of Eden in spiritual in our hearts with the parable of the sower. And that's why the garden of Eden is talked about again in revelation after we've been kicked out of it. God sent himself to fix it when Christ gave us regrue the garden spiritual in our hearts and then we eat from the tree on the fruit on the tree, which is Christ on the cross. That's why it says eat me. I'm not saying like have Jesus tacos like the Catholics believe. Like it's straight up. He's saying spiritually like I am the fruit of life. Eat me in the life forever. Right. And so we end up in a position where fear is manifested in all these ways, but they're really just defend the pursuit of happiness starter pack. Like I love them. Be loved a home, place to call my own and leave a legacy is the defense mechanisms for the underlying traumas of the garden of Eden kicked out of the garden. Therefore, we now have trauma in homelessness. And so that manifests in our life and I need a home, but it's really the fear of homelessness that came from the garden. We were separated from love. So now we have a trauma of divorce and we want to love and be loved as the defense mechanism, but it's really the fear of divorce that came from the garden of Eden. And we want to leave a legacy because death is entered the world through sin. If I leave a legacy, I'll be remembered past death, which is a form of immortality. And therefore, I now, I don't need to worry about the fear because I'm focused on the defense mechanism. What Christiana is saying is, "Killed all the defense mechanisms." be in this world, not of it. Don't take any, don't build up your treasures here, build up your treasures in heaven, and relying on God's promises for the traumas. I'm going to give you eternal life, so you don't need to be afraid of death. And therefore, you don't need to have this defense mechanism of needing love, right? Or leaving a legacy, which is this artificial immortality. And you don't, I'm going to give you a permanent home in heaven. I've gone to prepare it for you, so you don't need to be afraid of homelessness. Therefore, you don't, it doesn't need to manifest in needing a place, right? Like you see what I mean? Yes. And when Christ came to earth, what were the three top three things his life was about? Death, homelessness, and essentially like the glory of God. So not my, not my will, but your will be done. I don't need a legacy, your legacy, giving the legacy back to God or it's the only one who deserves it. He earned it. And the Son of Man has no place to lay us had. Christ came and of course he died, right? That was the whole point. Christ came and lived out the three traumas for us to understand like literally like I get it. And Shiva didn't do that. All I didn't do that. Krishna, none of these other supposed gods did like what Christ did. Yeah. The example of love in the Bible is the deepest example of love that there isn't any supposed religion out there. Christ came and exemplified the traumas. And we trust Christians are people who trust in God's promises to elite, to kill those traumas. Therefore, we lose interest in this life because we're not playing the rat race pursuit of happiness. We're over here on the seeking of righteousness, which is trusting in God's promises to kill the traumas themselves. Therefore, not manifesting in our need for stuff in this life. And so I think that brings a lot of peace personally because what you're afraid of is literally rooted in the Garden of Eden, the curse of Genesis 3, man of radiating into this life. And you could even see that like that laser beam from the past. And then like the love of God just like meeting it and just like like the light in the darkness, right? It's beautiful. So yeah. That's good. Four keys that we'll wrap up with. And Jake, we might release a snippet of the chamber flying on the last one we talked on the last one. We talked about maps of consciousness and fear and holding the pose. Remember that? We can free that out because we want to go deeper into this. But by the way, these supposed gods that you mentioned are real gods. Yeah, they're not not for them probably. Yeah. Like Krishna is like a real. They're the same gods, the same supposed gods of Egypt, of the Norse gods of the, you know, we actually maybe we'll do a whole video on it, but I got time lines out of there. Yeah, we'll do that later. It's like crazy. So, so for keys, for keys to battling fear, the first is understand gods endgame. Rome is a 28. It doesn't matter. It literally does not matter. Everything that you. Everything that you are afraid of if it does happen, it will actually convert into your good. It'll be something that God moves around, changes, and it works for you. So that the very idea for yourself is a non-starter because whatever happens to us is worked for us. And if you can understand this in God's game theory, it alleviates the, even the, the, the fuel source of fear. Number two, understanding love. When you understand how much God loves you, and there is a lot of God wants to bless you and not to hurt you. God wants to equip you. God wants to. God has all these things. If you saw it, you might not even believe it because you would be like, "Hap me, how? Well, how is that possible?" Every time God's, every time God replaces your dream with the, with his dream, it gets better. Amen. Not worse. Number three, replace your agreements. Anytime you find yourself focusing on Goliath's armor rather than the Word of God, you are actually now focused on the problem, not the promise. And this happens a million times a day, a promise once you start, once you start thinking about it, you'll realize how quickly you come out of agreement with your words. Your words are the most important, symptomatic data points of what you believe in your heart. Because your words speak power into your circumstances around you. And so whenever you start saying things that conflict with, with what God says about you, then you are going to actually open up areas of torment and areas where things could be messed with. And there's nothing that God is necessarily going to do about it because you're the one to sign the treaty and gave the agreement. So replace your agreements with God's agreements. This is the hardest one. This is the hardest one for me. It's the hardest one for you. It's a human nature intellect. The tree of knowledge could be, you can still call it the tree of intellect. It's the tree of man's understanding. Now God's redeemed it. God says, "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge." So God has redeemed it. But anytime that supplants your agreement with what God has said, it becomes idolatry and you open up a treaty agreement for you to be messed with. Number four, this is my favorite one is trustful, gamify it. What does this mean? This means there are little things in your life that you can play with God on. And you can give God an instrument to play. I'm doing this thing now right now where it's like, I will just pick random things and I'll be, tell me about that. Yesterday I was saw a tree that was big. It was bigger than the others. And I went through those three prayers that I mentioned earlier and said, "God, what do you want me to know about that tree?" And God gave me insight. And it had a little bit to do with the tree, but a lot to do with how I was living my life. And these things teach you, you know, my wife learned how to hear from God. She would go into her closet in the morning, she'd be like, "What do you want me to wear?" Something basic that doesn't even matter. And I was like, "How did that work? Like, what is that?" And she said, "Well, this is funny, but it reflects how much God loves being involved in talking with us on little things. I would pick something that I felt like God wanted me to wear. And every time I did that, someone would compliment me on what I was wearing. And anytime I did it, I wouldn't get any compliments." I was like, "Well, that's interesting, because that has nothing to do with life, really. It's just kind of a baby little game. That's how we learn to hear from God. God, what do you feel about me going on this vacation here?" John Eldridge has a great book called Walking with God. We talked about this. God, what do you feel about me leaving on a Friday instead of Thursday? And you take these little things and you learn with training wheels how to learn how to trust that you can hear from God. And when you learn how to do that with the little things, you learn how to do that with the big things. And what you'll find is that as you develop that sensitivity to what God is telling you, he shows up on the big things and you know what to do when to do it. So, understand God's endgame, understanding love, replace your agreements, and then his silly as this sounds, gamify your relationship with the voice of the Holy Spirit. And that is in nature. That's in the Bible, too. Jesus was playful. He loved it. He loved the play. He came back. The first meeting he had with his disciples, he's like, "Yeah, forget that. Let's go cook, breakfast on the beach because it's fun." So those are the four points that I have. Anything else we need to end up with? I'll just add to that real quick. There are essentially four voices in your head. The three bad ones are the world, the flesh and the devil, and then there's the voice of God. And so, what you just said is probably the most profound framework I've seen for how to hear the voice of God and really focus on it. And what you said earlier, you had different names for them, but you were talking about blocking out different voices and there's three elements in your prayer for them. You're really talking about blocking out the world, the flesh and the devil, and turning the volume of God up. And that, I think, is profound. Love it. Thanks for being here. Would you pray so? Yeah. God, thanks for being awesome. Thanks for loving us. Thank you that you've already figured it out. There's nothing we have to figure out on our own. There's nothing that we have to fix. All we have to do is learn to trust you and to get into relationship with you. We thank you that you've given us dominion, you've given us authority. And I just pray that everyone watching this would feel your voice and they would hear your voice. And for the people who are wrestling with fear, anxiety or trauma from their past, you can fix a hundred years of past trauma in a second. If people would just trust that you can do it. And I pray that you would ramp that up. We're in a really important point in history. And I pray that you would just equip people to do what they're called to do. In the name of Jesus, amen. Jesus name. I ended it in the name of Jesus. As long as you'd have touched that, I did it. All right. See you guys. If you want to talk about this, let us know. And any other topic you want us to discuss with the doctor. We'll do it. We'll bring it up. You love it.