The Sinister Case Of The Powell Family

They seemed like your everyday, normal, young family. A father, a mother, two adorable little boys living at the end of a cul-de-sac. Until one day, the entire family disappeared. Susan Powell's husband and their two young children would return like nothing happened. But Susan was still missing. She left behind chilling letters and videos predicting that she knew something bad was about to happen. This is me, July 29, 2008, covering all my bases, making sure that if something happens to me or my family or all of us, that our assets are documented. Hope everything works out and we're all happy and live happily ever after as much as that's possible. This is a case full of suspicious activity. Let me think about it for a couple days. Your wife is missing, Josh. Yeah, but I've always. And you want to think about it for a couple of days? Creepy family members. I just had what was probably the most erotic experience I've had in my entire life. And a lot of questions. My mom stayed where a crystal are. Where what are? Where crystals are. This is the story of the Powell family. Family tragedies. My name is Brianna and I'm hot on the case. Cozy season is ahead and you'll be spending way more time inside. Is your home ready? Don't worry. With Wayfair, you can upgrade your space without breaking the bank. Score up to 70% off during their Labor Day clearance on furniture, area rugs, mattresses and more. Plus, surprise flash deals. You can't miss. Whether it's one room or the whole house. Wayfair has pieces for every style and budget. Shop Wayfair's Labor Day clearance now through September 7th at Wayfair.com. Josh Powell was born on January 20th, 1976. He was one of five kids born to parents Stephen and Terry Powell, who had a very dysfunctional marriage. The Powells were Mormon, and this made Josh's father, Stephen, think that he was a Mormon. He was entitled to take a second wife. Polygamy is not something that the LDS church practices anymore, so this made Stephen's wife, Terry, rightfully upset. Stephen was also addicted to pornography, which also made his devoutly religious wife very upset. But Stephen also took this to entirely new levels of creep by showing this pornographic content to his very young, Stephen was addicted to pornography, which also made his devoutly religious wife very upset. But Stephen was also addicted to pornography, which also made his devoutly religious wife very upset. Stephen and Terry would divorce. The divorce was really messy, and the custody battle was even worse. Eventually, it was decided that Terry would move to Utah with one of her daughters, and Stephen would stay in Washington with their sons and another one of their daughters. And allegedly, on top of Stephen's creepiness, he was also physically abusive. And it was Josh that would be the victim of a lot of his beatings, and it would happen like almost every single day. Josh was a very troubled child, as you can imagine. Reportedly, one day, his mother asked him if he could do the dishes. This upset Josh so much that he pulled a large butcher's knife on his own mother. And at 13 years old, Josh even attempted to take his own life. But unless you are a part of the Powell family, it's very unlikely that you would have known of Josh's struggles because he presented himself as a very normal, well-mannered, young Mormon boy. After high school, Josh attended the University of Washington, where he met and started dating his first girlfriend. But this relationship was pretty short-lived. Josh was extremely controlling. He wanted say pretty much over every single aspect of his girlfriend's life, what she wore, where she went, and he even tried to completely cut her off from all of her friends and family so she would end the relationship. But Josh wouldn't be single for very long. Susan Powell was born Susan Cox on October 16, 1981, to parents Chuck and Judy, and she was one of three daughters. Susan was born in New Mexico, but the family would move to Washington. Susan was also a devout Mormon. In November of 2000, Josh and Susan met at a singles event hosted by their church. Josh was 24 years old, about to turn 25. Susan had just turned 19. The month earlier. When they first met, Josh was definitely more into Susan than Susan was into Josh, but eventually she warmed up to him. And when they started dating, they moved very, very fast. They were actually married only five months after they met on April 6, 2001. Susan's family was actually already aware of Josh before Josh and Susan started seeing each other. Apparently, he met Susan's older sister first, and actually was into her and had feelings for her, feelings that were not reciprocated. And Susan's older sister actually kind of felt like Josh was following her around and wasn't taking no for an answer. Susan's family did not like Josh. On top of this weirdness that was already between Josh and his new wife's older sister, they also felt like Josh was kind of full of himself and sort of a jerk. After getting married, the young couple would move in with Josh's dad to save up money so they could buy a house of their own one day. You remember Josh's dad, Stephen, the weirdo. Well, they quickly realized that the situation really wasn't going to work. So after living with Josh's dad, Stephen, for a little bit, Josh and Susan would actually move away from Washington. They would move out of Stephen's house and they would move to Utah, where Josh's mother and sister lived. There's also a huge community of Mormons. They lived in Utah, so it made sense for them. And this is where they wanted to settle down, start a life, and start a family. Their first son, Charles, or Charlie, was born on January 19, 2005. Their second son, Brayden, was born January 2, 2007. And together it seemed like Josh and Susan had built this perfect life together. They settled into this community in Utah. Susan had a lot of friends. They had these two daughters. They had adorable, perfect sons. The family almost seemed too normal. They lived at the end of a cul-de-sac and they drove around in a minivan. From the outside looking in, they appeared to be the perfect, sweet, young family. But every marriage has its issues. Susan and Josh were fighting a lot at this time, mostly about religion and money. Josh was pulling away from their Mormon faith and stopped going to church with the family as much as they wanted to. The family was also struggling a lot financially. Right now, it's 2007. We're right on the brink of a recession. In 2007, Josh would actually file for bankruptcy, citing over $200,000 in debt. But the couple was in marriage counseling through their church at this time, trying to make things work. And that brings us to December 6, 2009. The day before, the entire Powell family disappeared. The entire Powell family disappeared. either. She calls the police. Someone in the area recently had actually died from carbon monoxide poisoning, so this was a major concern that this entire family had also died from carbon monoxide poisoning in their sleep. So a welfare check was called around 10 a.m., and police made the judgment call to force entry into the home, and no one from the Powell family was there. But there were some signs in the home that something was extremely wrong. Susan's purse and wallet were left behind, but her cell phone was missing. There was a part of the carpet in the living room that was wet, like it had just been cleaned, and two large box fans were on and pointed at the wet spot of the carpet to try and dry it, and a carpet cleaner was out in the main bedroom. Red flags are definitely being raised, and a missing person report and investigation was started for the entire family. And right when this entire community started to worry about Susan's death, the police started panicking that this entire family is missing, this young married couple and their four and two-year-old sons are just gone. Josh Powell just shows back up later that night. He's with both of his young sons, but his wife Susan is still nowhere to be found. Josh would tell investigators that the night before, around midnight, he out of the blue decided that he would take his sons camping near the Pony Express Trail in the Simpson's Spring area. This is an area over 80 miles away from their home. Josh would say when he left the home around midnight, Susan decided not to come with them. She was still at the home. He had no idea where she could be. Right away, police think that this story, this alibi, is strange. Who decides on a whim to take a four-year-old and a two-year-old camping in the middle of the night past midnight and drive over two hours away for this camping trip, not to mention, the fact that temperatures that night were below freezing. There was actually a blizzard in the area that night. And this was also a Sunday night. Josh had to work the next morning that he completely missed without even calling his job to let them know. Josh would explain this away by saying he's a really spontaneous kind of dad and his kids said that they wanted s'mores. So he thought, why not? And the reason that he mixed up the days was because he was a really spontaneous kind of dad. He actually thought that the next day was Monday. What can you tell us about that night? I mean, from what we understand, you went camping and then came home. Tell us what happened that night. Yeah, I just, a lot of times I just go camping with my boys, you know, not anything big. I just go overnight and, you know, we do s'mores and stuff like that. And so I just went. With the boys, I was planning to do some s'mores in the morning and then we did. And then when we got home, well, on the way home, I found out that people were worried about us and that we were missing. And the report is, is that neither you nor your wife called in sick. And they said that that's not usual. What, what are your thoughts on that? Um, no, it's, it's not usual. I, well, I guess why didn't you call in sick? You know, I, I didn't, uh, I was somehow thinking that it was Sunday. So I didn't go to church and I, I just listened. So you got confused by the, on what day it was. Yeah. Josh Powell was very adamant that he had no idea where his wife was or where his wife's cell phone was. He even said on his way back from the camping trip, he tried to call his wife multiple times, but he never got an answer. Well, Susan, we are on our way back and, um, you know, I can't believe that somehow my brain missed a day. I thought today was Sunday. That was really, really stupid. All right. I'll talk to you later. Okay. Bye. Police would ask if it was okay if they looked inside the family's minivan, just to rule out any suspicion, which Josh did agree to. And inside the van that Josh had just used to take his two kids camping in the middle of the blizzard in the middle of the night was Susan's cell phone. And the SIM card was also missing. And to this day, it's never been found. And Josh has no explanation for this. At all, but this wasn't the only suspicious thing found in the van. Amongst other items that you could say were camping related items. They found a tarp, a shovel, two saws, a knife, and a box of latex gloves. Like maybe you could say that all of this is camping supplies, but when you pair that with the fact that his wife is missing and his alibi is shaky at best, it doesn't look good. Detectives also noticed that Josh has these cuts all over his hands. And when they asked him about the cuts and how he got them, he got visibly very upset. And he said, "I'm not going to lie to you. I'm not going to lie to you. I'm not going to lie to you." I asked you where you got the nick on your knuckle. And you explained that it was dry skin. Okay. Makes sense. I'm dry skin and work. I just work. Like I said, you don't have to be here. If you don't want to be here, you can leave. I didn't force you to come here. And I'm not forcing you to stay. Okay? Okay, I have a lot of questions still. All right. We need to find your wife. I would think that you would want to, you know, help me find your wife. What kind of questions are they still? There's quite a few questions. I want to go over, you know, all of her friends again. I want to go over who she talks to. I want to go over her work history. I want to go over where you guys have lived. There's all kinds of things. Okay. Do you not want to find your wife? Yeah, I do. You do? Yeah. Okay. Why are you making this so difficult, then? Well, let's go. If that's the kind of questions, I guess it's fine. We'll just try and, you know. What are you worried about? What are you concerned about? Well, you guys, you know, have implied some things, and so it concerns me. We've implied what? Well, you've implied that my hands have some kind of defensive wounds on them, just because they're all cut up, and that's just, it's just the way they are. Okay, so there shouldn't be anything you need to worry about, then. Right? I mean, if I have dry hands and my hands were nicked up like that, because they're dry hands, I don't think I'd be worried about it. Well, go ahead and ask your questions. I mean, do we not have a job to do? No, go ahead and, uh, by the way, um, yeah, go ahead and ask the questions. But without anything to hold Josh at this point, they were forced to let him go. And the very next morning, Josh is seen extensively cleaning his minivan. Very strange thing to do the day after you find out that your wife is missing. Josh comes back in for an interview later that same day, and at the same time, his eldest son, four-year-old Charlie, is also being interviewed in a separate room. Charlie says that his family did go camping yesterday, but they didn't go to the campground that was closer to their home, 80 miles away, the one that their father said they went to. They actually went to Dinosaur National Park, a campground 200 miles away, over double the length away that Josh said that they went. But even more shocking, Charlie tells the investigator that his mother did go camping with them, but that they left her behind. She didn't come back with them. Charlie also implies that his mother is somewhere underground, stating that they left her behind where the crystals are. Well, what did you do last night? Um. Before you went to bed? Go camping. You went camping? Yeah. Tell me about camping. Camping is one where you have s'mores. Where you have s'mores. Yeah. Yeah. And s'mores start with marshmallows and graham crackers and chocolate and another graham cracker. Where were you camping at? Um. I was camping at Dinosaur National Park. Dinosaur Park? No. Dinosaur National Park. Who were you camping with? Um. My dad and my mom and my little brother. Dad, your mom? and your brother did you sleep over there yeah okay so Charlie when you guys came home from camping who came home with you and your mom stayed there so your mom stayed at the park where did she stay at the park well do you know where do you know where at the park no see my mom stayed where a crystal are where what are where crystals are the crystals crystals is that what you're saying crystals yeah your mom stayed where the crystals are yeah is that what you said yeah okay those crystals are all things that grow and rocks that are come up oh okay and of course when Josh is asked why his four-year-old son would say all of these things he said that he has no idea I just spoke with some of our other detectives and you're gonna have to wait here with us you're not gonna go anywhere one of our detectives just interviewed your children and your children are telling our detectives that mom went with you guys last night and that she didn't come back she did not go with us okay well with that just getting that information I'm gonna detain you sit right here if you want a lawyer and you want to talk or you want to change your mind and talk or take a CBSA test then we can do those things but they know that she didn't go with us well here's the thing kids the kids are very honest that's one thing I've learned in the years of doing this job that when kids talk to us we'll listen because they're honest and if they never lie they don't make things up so they're saying they were with you they were with you okay she was with you so I have to believe the kids so now it's gonna be up to you if you want to help us find her and help us get to the bottom what really happened here that's what we're here for okay we're gonna find out either way with your help or without your help I honestly don't need your help I feel that I feel confident enough in my investigation and his investigation and everybody else involved we have great detectives in this department that will find out what happened we'll get to the bottom of this with your help or without your help so I want to give you the opportunity to help us and tell us what really happened because you're the only one that knows there's nothing that happened she was not with her with us and if my kids said that so your kids lie then do your kids lie sometimes they do I mean if they said that she was with us they know that's not true so if they say they said that she was with us then I guess that would put her out in the out at Pony Express okay and that's my concern Charlie is also asked if he can draw a picture of his entire family this is something that detectives do quite a lot when they are questioning children it usually gives them a lot of answers and in this case Charlie draws a picture of himself his little brother and his dad with their family's minivan when he's asked where his mother is he says that she's in the trunk and later that same day around 7 p.m police got a search warrant for the family's minivan and the family's home of course Josh had already extensively cleaned the minivan earlier that morning so that didn't bring any new evidence but the search of the home definitely did blood was found on the floor on the couch blood that was a match for Susan Powell and when you pair that with the fact that someone clearly tried to clean the carpet the day after she vanishes it starts to paint a very terrifying picture starting to feel the pressure and starting to get very paranoid that same day on December 8th Josh got a new cell phone and he also rented a car he only had the car for three days December 8th to December 10th when he returned the car it had over 800 miles extra on it that he put on it 800 miles in just three days no clue where he went and what he was doing in that time they also discovered that right before his wife went missing Josh was talking to one of his co-workers about where the best place to hide a dead body was and Josh said that he thought the best place to hide a dead body was in a mine shaft they also discovered that Josh took out two life insurance policies on his wife one in 2007 and one in 2008 totaling 1.5 million dollars which is an insane amount of life insurance in my opinion considering that Susan was very very young at that point she was in her early 20s still Josh also attempted to take out a third life insurance policy on Susan but he was denied because Susan was already over insured at that point because Susan was missing Josh could not get a hold of these life insurance policies but only 10 days after Susan goes missing Josh drains his wife's retirement savings account why would you do that when your wife has only been missing for 10 days unless you know she's never coming home Josh also cancels all of Susan's long-standing appointments and he also pulls their kids out of daycare then police discovered that immediately after Susan disappeared Josh's brother Michael sold his car to a scrapyard out of state police thought that this was extremely suspicious so they start looking for this car and when police finally get a hold of Josh's brother's Michael's car a dapper dog got a hit inside the car for human decomposition Josh is absolutely not looking great at this point so police want to learn some more information about his marriage with Susan they know that the couple were having some problems but turns out the problems were a lot worse than what they might have appeared to be on the outside financially the couple were in a very tough spot which I did touch on earlier but somehow the situation was even worse than filing for bankruptcy and being two hundred thousand dollars in debt something like that can really affect a marriage but it was how Josh was treating Susan at that time that really concerns me Josh was so stressed out about these money issues that he was trying to control every single aspect of his wife and his children's lives which included how much they were spending at the grocery store every single penny that Susan spent she had to immediately log into a spreadsheet with the exact price and what she bought and then Josh would give her a budget that she could use on food but it was so small that it was completely unrealistic her children would starve on a food budget like that so Susan learned how to Garden so she could feed her children and on top of that she also learned how to crochet so she could make her babies new clothing Josh was also just treating his wife terribly at this point there have definitely been allegations of domestic violence and Josh would blame how he was treating his wife on the economy saying that the economy wasn't so bad that he wouldn't be treating her so badly Susan would go to her friends and say these such sad things she would say that she wanted her husband back her best friend and her lover back that Josh just wasn't the same anymore by late 2008 Susan was in a friend's family and members of their church asking for advice on what to do with her marriage around this time Susan records a video documenting her family's assets and in this video it's clear that there's struggles in their marriage Susan is saying a lot of like digs at her husband Josh throughout this video and you can also tell that Susan felt that something was off that something was wrong this is me July 29 2008 it is 12:33 mountain time covering all my bases making sure that if something happens to me or my family or all of us that our assets are documented hope everything works out and we're all happy and live happily ever after as much as that's possible Charlie say hi today is Tuesday July 29 2008 and we are in the 6254 west circle house this is me hi sorry and it is can you see that 11 44 a.m and i am documenting all our assets just in case of any emergencies fire flood damage disputes and we have two samsung monitors shortly before susan disappeared she confided in some of her closest friends that josh was trying to turn their two young sons against her trying to make her children think that she was a mean mommy and susan also confided that she was trying to save up money to potentially leave josh she was considering divorce and if their marriage wasn't better by their anniversary in april 2010 then she was going to be filing for divorce susan had a feeling that something bad was going to happen to her if the video that i just played for you doesn't tell you that already this definitely will nine days after susan powell disappeared police discovered that she had a secret safety deposit box that her husband did not know about when they opened up the safety deposit box they found normal things in it you know birth certificates and important documents and then they discovered this stack of papers it was all folded up and it was labeled for the friends and family of susan powell all except for josh powell i don't trust him inside was susan's final will and testimony it's long so i'll put it on the screen but i'm also going to note some parts that i think are the most telling susan writes that she has been having extreme marital stress for about three or four years she then writes for mine and my children's safety i feel the need to have a paper trail at work which means that i have to go to the hospital which would not be accessible to my husband i know he can override me with the legal paperwork but i want it documented somewhere that there is extreme turmoil in our marriage he has threatened to skip the country and told me straight out if we divorce there will be no lawyers only a mediator and that josh would ruin her she then writes that josh admitted that he would also be ruined too if they divorced but that susan would be destroyed and she would be destroyed as well and also her life would be over and that their two sons would have to grow up without a mom or a dad susan then writes it's a known fact that we have life insurance policies for over a million dollars if we die in the next four years if i die it might not be an accident even if it looks like one take care of my boys those are words that susan powell wrote only a few months before she disappeared and she felt the need to hide it from her husband that is so telling and i mean every single time i read this note i just get full body chills this poor woman knew that something was going to happen to her at this point josh is officially labeled a person of interest in his wife's disappearance so he immediately lawyers up and for the rest of his case he refuses to cooperate or talk with police anymore show button here football is finally back and prize picks is going crazy with the deals to start the season giving out promos every day in september on prize picks you can make all the picks you want all in the same app and now prize picks is available nationwide so what are you waiting for lock in for kickoff because everyone and everything is on prize picks what you want download the app today and use code spotify to get $150 off your prize picks instantly in lineups if you win your first five dollar lineup prize picks run your game at this point detectives bring all of their evidence which in my opinion is a lot of evidence to the da to try and get an arrest warrant to charge josh with susan's murder but the da would not sign off on the arrest warrant until they found a body very much old school nobody no crime mentality which is just so frustrating because like i said in my opinion they do have a lot of evidence so much evidence and then only one month after his wife vanishes josh takes the kids he leaves the state and he moves to washington hours away and him and his two sons move in with his father steven this is one month after his wife disappears josh powell wrote the handbook on how to look guilty 101 his wife has been missing for one month and he's been missing for a long time and he's been missing for a long time and instead of looking for her helping in searches or hoping that one day she might show back up at home one day he just leaves with their kids doing what i do i've researched so many missing persons cases where the missing person's loved ones will stay in the home for decades for their entire lives hoping that one day their loved one will come home but in this case josh's wife has been missing for a long time and he's been missing for a long time and he's been missing for one month and he moves 13 hours away at this point susan's disappearance has made news across the country people want answers and there's a lot of public scrutiny against josh for obvious reasons susan's family thinks that josh is guilty josh's sister jennifer is very public about the fact that she believes that josh murdered his wife but josh's other sister and his brother michael and his father steven were all publicly supported by the josh family and they're all supporting josh and josh's innocence josh and his father would respond to all of these allegations against him with all of their own theories josh also started a website susanpowell.org which you might assume would be a website raising awareness for his wife's disappearance but in reality this was a website where josh was just offending himself and actually bashing on his missing wife josh tries to spread this narrative that he's been missing for a long time and he's that susan was mentally unstable and was also having an affair with this man named steven kocher steven kocher was a 30 year old mormon man that lived in utah that vanished on december 13th 2009 the same week that susan disappeared and this is what fueled josh's theory that susan and steven kocher were having an affair and they like ran off to be together because other than the fact that they were both mormons they were both missing and they were both missing and they were both mormon and both lived in utah and vanished the same week there is no evidence that links them together there's no evidence that they ever even met each other plus steven kocher vanished in new mexico it wasn't even in utah and his disappearance is also very suspicious i would definitely recommend looking into the case if you are interested in unsolved disappearances but it has no absolutely zero link to the disappearance of susan paul josh and his father also did a bunch of on-camera interviews trying to clear josh's name and also bash susan just completely running her name and her reputation through the dirt josh's father steven would also talk a lot about his missing daughter-in-law's sexuality how she was always coming on to him it was very very strange josh was also in possession of susan's journals that she kept through middle school and high school and she was also in possession of susan's journals that she kept through middle school and high school and he publicly released pages of her journals that she had while she was an adolescent and this is just to humiliate her and spread this narrative that she was a mentally unstable sexual deviant what a teenage girl writes in her journals is not an accurate representation of the woman that she will grow up to be if someone read the stuff that i wrote my journals when i was 16 years old i would have been hospitalized truly and that's not even an exaggeration sometimes teenage girls that keep journals can be a little dramatic go figure but he's using these journals that this woman wrote when she was 13 years old to spread this narrative that she's mentally unstable and the sexual deviant and this explains why she's missing and he didn't have anything to do with it susan was very emotionally abused as a child her mother has some very she has a very angry personality her father is very manipulative has she ever been unfaithful to you never that i know of then why do you think that she would just run off with another man she's a very sexual person i mean i'm i'm her father-in-law and uh she she would do a lot of things that that um i mean she was just she did it i did i mean we we interacted in a lot of sexual ways and she did a lot of things that i mean she was just she did it i did i mean we interacted in a lot of sexual ways because susan enjoys doing that it has almost been two years at this point since susan disappeared and investigators are desperate to find more evidence so on august 25th 2011 they actually secure a search warrant for the home of stephen powell josh's father where josh and his sons charlie and braden are currently living they're very hopeful that they're going to find evidence that josh killed his wife but they end up finding something very very different They find evidence that Joshua Josh's father, Stephen, was an absolute creep and a predator towards women and children. And that he was absolutely obsessed with Susan Powell, his own son's wife, his own son's missing wife. After Josh and Susan got married, do you remember how they moved in with Stephen for a short amount of time? But then things got weird, so they moved to Utah. Stephen really liked to document everything. He was always filming, like, home movies, and he also kept a journal and also a video diary. He always had a camera in his hands at every single moment, just recording and videotaping everything. But when he would be innocently videotaping a family outing, he would actually be zooming in on Susan's private areas. In addition to hundreds of videos just like that, they found over 4,500 photos that Stephen took of Susan. They also found this creepy collection dedicated to Susan in Stephen's home. So, so creepy. He stole her hairbrush, her dirty underwear. He even collected and still had some of Susan's used feminine products. So creepy and disgusting. He also had a bunch of photos of. Naked women, and then he would have these photos of Susan, and he would cut out Susan's face and tape it on top of these photos of naked women, and I don't even want to imagine what he was then doing with those photos. They also found evidence in his own journals that whenever Susan was in the bathroom, Stephen would slide a little mirror under the bathroom door so he could catch a reflection of her in the shower or changing. Or using the bathroom. He was spying on her whenever she used the bathroom. This is his daughter-in-law. The 19-year-old girl that just married his son. Don't forget that. They also found a bunch of video diaries that Stephen was recording while Susan and Josh were living with him. And I'm going to play one of them that was released. The backstory of this video diary is that Susan was really, really sick. She was in the living room with her husband and her father-in-law. And her father-in-law, Stephen, offers to rub her. Her feet to make her feel better because she's really, really sick. And in this video diary, Stephen's discussing this. It apparently just happened because he refers to it as the most erotic experience he has ever had in his entire life. I just had what is probably the most erotic experience I've had in my entire life. I just hate to say it. I mean, of course, I haven't had that many experiences. But Susan has been feeling ill. She had a cold. And I offered to rub her feet, to rub her toes, to give her some stimulation. That went on. I probably rubbed her feet, her toes, her beautiful feet. She has such pretty feet. Of course, everything about her is pretty beautiful. And I know she felt it. I mean, I know she couldn't have missed it. She's not naive either. I know from what I've read in her journals. That girl is not naive. When I started massaging her legs, I would have loved to go all the way up her legs. But I did do her calves. Because her feet were resting in my crotch. So I sort of rubbed her calves. She didn't seem to mind at all having me that close. I mean, I was close. I was touching her with my. crotch. And I love that woman. She is so beautiful. Can't even get enough of her. Can't get enough of looking at her. She's so pretty. Stephen was absolutely convinced that Susan felt the exact same way about him that he felt about her. So one day Stephen's having this normal conversation with Susan, but he's secretly recording the conversation. And in this conversation, he then confesses to Susan that he's in love with her. And you can hear Susan immediately shut him down, obviously, saying, what are you doing? I'm married to your son. This is so weird. It'd be great to go to Colorado and see a different part of the U.S., you know? I'm probably wrong, but I feel like falling in love with you. Maybe I'm interpreting something that I shouldn't be interpreting. Um, you know, just for example, when you're sitting on the couch, it just felt like you were very, um, you know, I mean, I was extremely aroused and I think you were somewhat aroused at least I thought. I don't know where you're going with this. Susan, I don't, I'll tell you what I'm wearing. I'm married to your son and I should just be the daughter-in-law. I know. She puts me a step beneath your own children. Okay. And that's where I was kind of meaning to talk to you about this. My own father doesn't kiss me and you, you kiss me and I do cozy season is ahead and you'll be spending way more time inside. Is your home ready? Don't worry with Wayfair. You can upgrade your space without breaking the bank score up to 70% off during their labor day clearance on furniture, area rugs, mattresses, and more. Plus surprise flash deals. You can get a free copy of the book, which is available on our website at wayfair.com. You can't miss whether it's one room or the whole house. Wayfair has pieces for every style and budget shop. Wayfair's labor day clearance now through September 7th at wayfair.com. Wayfair, every style, every home show button here. Football is finally back and prize picks is going crazy with the deals to start the season, giving out promos every day in September on prize picks. You can make all the picks you want all in the same app. And now prize picks is available nationwide. So what are you waiting for? Lock in for kickoff. Because everyone and everything is on prize picks. What you want? Download the app today and use code Spotify to get $150 instantly in lineups. If you win your first $5 lineup prize picks run your game. And it was shortly after this that Susan and Josh would move to Utah to get away from Steven because he made her feel so uncomfortable. And then Susan would tell people after they moved how creepy her father-in-law was. And she even said that she had this terrible feeling that her father-in-law, Steven Powell, was going to be the first one to move to Utah. And then she said that Steven Powell was actually a pedophile. Susan must have had some really kind of weird intuition because they also found in this search warrant photos that Steven took of his neighbor's daughters while they were unclothed in their bathroom. He took these photos from like his bedroom window, zooming in through the window of his neighbor's bathroom. And the girls that he's taking these photos of, these girls that are not wearing any clothing. Were 10 and 8 years old. Something else they found in this search in Steven Powell's journals were entries that he wrote only 14 hours after Susan vanished. He references in this journal Josh's story, his alibi about going camping. Steven writes, I think Susan is dead and that Josh spent the 20 hours in Lacuna disposing of her body far away. Sunday night, it snowed all night. So Josh headed out after midnight to camp with the boys? Why? The whole thing sounds so wrong. Even if it had nothing to do with disposing of Susan's body, why would anybody do that? And furthermore, why would anyone believe that? Someone would go out in weather for just an outing. He then writes that Josh's siblings, Michael and Alina, are very supportive of Josh and advised him to tighten up his story as it sounds weak and unconvincing. Steven then writes, It's so painful to know that I will never see Susan again. I feel like that is reality. I feel like Josh did a truly stupid thing and probably disposed of her body in a very grotesque way. I'm so angry at him for killing such a beautiful woman. So even his own father, less than 24 hours after Susan disappears, believes that Josh is guilty. But then he would then speak in the media for years in support of Josh. Makes no sense. Steven Powell is arrested and he is sentenced to 30 months in prison for voyeurism and additional five years for the CSAM that he had. And since this material of children was found, the same house that Josh Powell was living in with his two very young children. Even though Josh wasn't the one that was in possession of the CSAM, the courts still thought it would be best if they removed Charlie and Brayden from Josh's custody. And Charlie and Brayden were placed temporarily with Susan's parents, Chuck and Judy, on September 28th, 2011. At this point, Charlie is six years old and Brayden is 40. So Josh doesn't have like technical custody of his children at this point, but he still has his parental rights and he he was actively trying to regain custody of Charlie and Brayden moving forward for the next few months. Meanwhile, he still has supervised visitation with his children. At first, these supervised visits would happen at a third-party location, but eventually he was allowed to have supervised visits with his children at his home. He's now renting a new home because he obviously cannot be living at the home that he was sharing with his father. On February 1st, 2012, Josh was back in court to try and regain custody of Charlie and Brayden. During the court proceedings, it was revealed that during the searches of Josh's father's home, they also found some disturbing things on Josh's computer as well. There were hundreds of pornographic images of different cartoon characters. Some of these pornographic images were of cartoon characters that were children, and in some of these images, they were performing acts of incest, or bestiality. Josh would adamantly deny that he had no idea where these images came from, but still, he was not allowed to have custody of Charlie and Brayden at this point because of these images, and they wanted him to undergo a psychological evaluation, a parental evaluation, and a psychosexual evaluation. Since these images were of cartoons, they were technically not illegal for him to have, but they did not want him to have custody of these images. They did not want him to have custody of his children at this point until they had these evaluations done, but it is also believed now that Josh actually was telling the truth and these were not images that he seeked out, and that these images were on his computer because the previous owner of this computer were the ones that downloaded the images because Josh had, he bought this computer secondhand. And even though at this point on February 1st, 2012, Josh still has not regained custody of Charlie and Brayden, he is still in custody of Charlie and Brayden. He is still allowed to have these supervised visits with his children, and four days after this court hearing, Josh would have another one of these supervised visits with Charlie and Brayden, and his sons were so excited for this visit with their father because their dad actually told them that he had a very special surprise for them. Elizabeth Griffin Hall was a social worker that would do these supervised visits between Josh and his sons. She was also the one that would pick up Charlie and Brayden. She was the one that would pick up Charlie and Brayden, and she was the one that would pick up Charlie and Brayden from their grandparents, Chuck and Judy's house, and then drive them over to Josh's home. On February 5th, 2012, four days after that court hearing, Elizabeth picks up the now seven-year-old Charlie and five-year-old Brayden from their grandparents' house on the way over to their dad's house. The two kids are so excited about this visit with dad because dad told them that he had this big surprise for them. When they got to Josh's house, the boys jumped out of the car and started running for them. They were so excited for this visit with Josh and Brayden. The boys ran up to the house. Josh just stared at Elizabeth. He gave her this creepy smile. He then slammed the door in her face and locked the door behind her. Something like this had never happened in all of the supervised visits that Elizabeth ever did. She's knocking on the door. She's begging Josh to answer. She's telling Josh he has to answer. This is a supervised visit. And then Elizabeth says that she can hear Charlie and Brayden like crying and screaming inside the home. So she immediately calls 9-1-1. And this is, just a warning, one of the most frustrating 9-1-1 calls that you might ever hear. This is one of the worst 9-1-1 operators I swear I've ever heard. This person should not be doing this job at all. Even though Elizabeth is making herself completely clear that she's a social worker trying to do a supervised visit, she's not doing it. She's not doing it. She's not doing it. She's not doing it. She's not doing it. She's not doing it. She's not doing it. She's not doing it. She's not doing it. She's not doing it. She's not doing it. She's not doing it. between children and their father, the 9-1-1 operator is being so difficult and is like refusing to understand what Elizabeth's like role is here in the supervised visitation. Elizabeth's making herself so clear. But this 9-1-1 operator like seems like they're trying to make Elizabeth sound stupid. Like this person hates their job. Truly. It's so, so, so frustrating. And while Elizabeth is trying to get these children help, the 9-1-1 operator is just like stuck on the fact that they can't understand what Elizabeth's job is. The 9-1-1 operator also gives Elizabeth a lot of attitude when Elizabeth's trying to ask, when is help going to get here? The 9-1-1 operator gives her this snotty attitude and says they have to respond to life-threatening, emergencies first. And Elizabeth is trying to tell the 9-1-1 operator, this very much could be a life-threatening emergency. You know what? Just take a listen to this 9-1-1 call yourself. Hey, I'm on a supervised visitation for a court-ordered visit and something really weird has happened. The kids went into the house and the parent, the biological parent, whose name is Josh Powell, will not let me in the door. What should I do? What's the address? It's 8-1-1-9, and I think it's 89. Nothing like this has ever happened before at these visitations, so I'm really shocked, and I could hear one of the kids crying, but he still wouldn't let me in. And I'd like to pull out of the driveway because I smell gasoline and he won't let me in. You want to pull out of the driveway because you smell gasoline, but he won't let you? He won't let me in. He won't let you out of the driveway? He won't let me in the house. Whose house is it? He's got the kids in the house and he won't let me in. It's a supervised visit. I understand. Whose house is it? Josh Powell. Okay, so you don't live there, right? No, I'm contracted to the state to provide supervised visitation. And who is there to exercise their visitation? I am, and the visit is with Josh Powell, and he is the husband that I supervise. So you supervise? You supervise and you're doing the visit? You're supervising yourself? I supervise myself. I'm the supervisor here. Wait a minute. If it's a supervised visit, you can't supervise yourself. I'm the supervisor for the supervised visit. Okay, well, aren't you the one making the visit? Or is there another parent that you're supervising? No. I'm the one that supervises. I pick up the kids with their grandparents. Yes. And then who visits with the children? Josh Powell. Okay, so you're supposed to be there to supervise Josh Powell's visit with the children? Yes, that's correct. And he's the husband of missing Susan Powell. This is a high-profile case. How did he gain access to the children before you got there? I was one step in back of them. Okay, so they went into the house and then he locked you out? Yes, he shut the door right in my face. All right, now it's clear. Your last name? My name is Elizabeth Griffin Hall, and the kids have been in there by now approximately 10 minutes. And he knows this is a supervised visit. Did you notice what he was wearing? No, I didn't notice what he was wearing. Is he alone then, or is anybody else? I don't know. I couldn't get in the house. All right, we'll have somebody look for you there. Okay, how long will it be? We'll respond to emergency, life-threatening situations first. The first available deputy is. This could be life-threatening. He went to court on Wednesday, and he didn't get his kids back. And this is really. I'm afraid for their lives. Okay, has he threatened the lives of the children previously? I have no idea. All right, we'll have the first available deputy contact you. Thank you. And potentially, if the 911 operator had acted faster, what happened next might not have happened. Elizabeth starts to smell gasoline coming from the home. And before police can arrive, the home bursts into flames with Charlie Braden and Josh inside. And when the fire was finally put out, they found all three of them dead inside. Hello? Hi, ma'am. Were you calling about the fire on the 8200 block on 188 St. Corneas? Yes, he exploded the house. Ma'am, do you know the exact address of the house, or are you going to tell us where it was? Yes, there was a man and two children. I just dropped off the children, and he wouldn't let me in the door. Okay, stand in line for the fire department. Okay, I'm going to get them on the line. Do not hang up. Hold on. And there's an adult man. He had supervised visitation, and he blew up the house and the kids. The kids and the husband and the father were in the house? Yes, yes, he slammed the door in my face, so I kept knocking. I thought it was a mistake. I kept knocking, and then I called 911. You saw him go back into the house right before the flames? He didn't ever leave the house. He just opened the door. The kids were one step ahead of me. They're five and seven. They were one step ahead of me, and he slammed the door in my face. And you think he might have done this intentionally? Yes. Immediately after that court hearing on February 1, just four days earlier, when Josh did not get custody of his children, he withdrew $7,000 from his bank account. He then bought a house. He bought a house. He bought a house. He bought a house. He then bought a lot of gasoline. He took all of his children's belongings and their toys and donated them at a thrift store. He then emailed his lawyer and his family, telling them that he was sorry, but he just couldn't live without his children. After locking Elizabeth out, of the house josh then attacks his seven and five-year-old sons with a hatchet in the neck and in the face and that's why you could hear them screaming and crying from outside the home josh then douses the entire home in all this gasoline he then puts a gasoline container between his legs and he lights a flame which immediately lights the entire house on fire and even after being attacked in the face and in the neck with a hatchet when they did an autopsy of charlie and brayden they found that smoke was in their lungs meaning that they were both still alive when the fire was set this is such a hard case to research for so many reasons it seems so obvious that josh murdered susan but to this very day she will just be a missing person they have not found a body and josh went to the hospital and they found a body and josh went to the hospital and they found a body and they found a body and josh went to the hospital and they found a body and josh went to the grave with all of the answers that so many people are so desperate for her family just wants to be able to put her to rest properly and it also seems clear that susan knew that something was going to happen to her and she was just repeating over and over again that she wanted people to take care of her boys and in the end this pathetic excuse for a man took all of their lives at the end i believe that josh powell is a narcissist or has some sort of narcissistic personality i don't believe that the reason that he murdered his sons charlie and brayden was because he couldn't live without them i think that he murdered charlie and brayden because he lost custody of them and he lost control and he wanted to regain control even if that meant killing his children it was like a case of if he couldn't have them then nobody could and i think that's the same reason why he murdered susan i think he potentially might have found out that susan was going to divorce him and leave him and he couldn't let that happen for his own ego i also think that he only cared about himself and because he was in debt filed for bankruptcy and he had all these life insurance policies on susan that since he only cared about himself that he felt that susan was worth more to him dead than alive susan's parents chuck and judy ended up suing the state claiming that their negligence led to the deaths of their grandchildren charlie and brayden and they actually won and were awarded 98 million dollars of course this money will never bring back the life of susan and brayden and they actually won and were awarded charlie brayden or their daughter susan every single time i research this case it absolutely breaks my heart but it's so important to talk about cases just like this because things just like this happens so much more frequently than you think it would i have like notifications when different crimes happen across the world and i swear it's almost every single day something just like this or something very similar to this happens so that's why it's so important to talk about cases like this because it's so important to talk about cases to bring awareness to things like this because there's warning signs that are just so important for people in the situation to see but also people just outside friends and family and neighbors to notice that something is wrong and to act on it if you see something always say something even if you're wrong then you're just wrong but what if you're right you could save someone's life as for josh's father steven he was released from prison in 2017 but he died a year later in 2018 from a heart attack at the age of 18 and he was released from prison in 2017 but he died a year of 68 years old and as for josh's brother michael who if you remember immediately sold his car to a scrapyard out of state following susan's disappearance and then police found the car and cadaver dogs got a hit on it for human remains well following josh's death and the death of charlie and brayden police are still looking to hold somebody accountable for susan's disappearance so they immediately start applying a lot of pressure on michael asking him lots of questions about his car why did he leave his car and why did he leave his car and why did he leave his car why he got rid of it why cadaver dogs are saying that there was a dead body in the back of his car immediately after his sister-in-law disappears so right as police are applying all this pressure for answers from michael michael would also take his own life by jumping off of a high-rise building in february of 2013 less than one week after the anniversary of charlie and brayden's and also the death of his brother josh as of right now susan powell has been missing for over 16 years and her case remains officially unsolved i'm so interested to hear all of your thoughts and theories and takes on this case please let me know in the comment sections on youtube and over on spotify please make sure that you're subscribed over on youtube and following the show wherever you get your podcasts and if you made it to the end of this week's episode please please take five minutes out of your day to leave us a rate and review on spotify and or apple podcast that is the best way to push out the show and these episodes and these cases out to even more people thank you guys so so much for listening to susan charlie and brayden powell's case today and i will see you guys all next friday when we are hot in the case once again