The Sigma Shift: Solving Advertisers' Biggest Challenges with MiQ's Rob Linton

Life in Digital explores the ever-changing media landscape with today's industry leaders. We'd like to thank our sponsors, Rebbing, the solution enabling flexible access to Rebning and greater control over capital across the digital economy through their transactional based funding model. Hello and welcome back to a new Life in Digital podcast series. I'm very lucky to be joined by Rob Linson. CRO over at MIT, I'm sure a lot of you will know Rob. Thanks so much for joining us. I was very new mate. Yeah, not too bad. Yeah, came up from Manchester this morning. It's a lot higher up down there as it's usually the case. So yeah, I've not got too busy with any of these. And you say the MIT obviously just found the corner right? It is, people say stones from you. You could throw a stone and hit you on that. Yeah, probably good. Well, I think it's nice for joining us to kick rings off, just tell us a little bit about your goal and MIT, and what do you guys do as a business? Yeah, yeah, sure. And so I'll see our own for the UK. So essentially, I'm running the sales and commercial team across our UK business. So that's splitting to London and Manchester offices. We also have an office in Dublin. Nice. And so I don't want to get into any sort of, you know, Remy, Irish UK. It's hard to do. We find it easy, it's just easier to say UK. It's very much UK in Ireland. And my Q's proposition as it all does has the industry right? Well, you know, today we are an only channel programmatic media partner. And you know, I think the core thing as well, like specialising wholly in managed service, right? So we, you know, we, yet we provide, right? So it's predominantly two agencies that we work with. Amazing. And then I think it's, before we go on to the kind of products in the Netherlands, we don't like you. So like I said, loads of people have heard about my Q and it'd be great to touch on a few of your development. So over the years. But before we do that, be good to hear a little bit about your journey because it isn't unique quite. And I know you started as a trade route on my Q, about ages, what? About 14 years ago? Yeah. So we've been there for a while, which is great. Tell us a little bit about your journey and kind of how you ended up as UK CRO artists as well. Yeah. Oh, yeah. It feels a bit bekeggy talking about yourself too. Yeah, very might by just to start, you know, basically at two jobs. I left uni in the peak of the 2008 recession, which is really fun. And as you imagine, it went really well. Was that Manchester, yeah. It went to lead. I think, well, yeah. So basically Manchester. Yeah. And yeah, and then I ended up living here. It wasn't great for anyone. And you got 10-pin at a housing association. And then, yeah, ended up running the team, that administered the first versions of the health advice team. That's very cool. So it was like really interesting, quite rewarding. Yeah. It was like very low pay. Not very well. It was pretty high. And, yeah, anyway. And I had a good friend who actually now works at Skyrise. He made it for the last time. His business was partnering with Media IQ because he was about that in the UK regions. And he said that they were looking for traders. And, you know, what, trading was something cool, right? You know, trading and it's not going to change all that. So that's very interested. And basically, yes. I'm looking for people who were pretty good at maths and could do a pivot table. You know, I'm not looking at others. That was hard for you so much. I'm going to do a pivot table. So, anyway, yeah. I ended up handing in my notes in my job. It was a month before my song was born. Which was, you know, raise the alarm bells. We were pretty much everyone. But, actually, I was risked with it. Well, in the night again, yeah. One really interesting thing about duking has helped me throughout the rest of my career. It was obviously a giant risk. But, the team that I used to, you know, were running and were working for. I lost the government contract three months after I made that decision. Right. And I wanted to be like, absolutely stupid. And, what's to be like? Yeah. One of the greatest decisions I've ever made. Yeah. So, like that, I could take the risk to try new things and probably help me, I guess. So, for now, such a small decision like, will it take smaller time? Oh, man. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Put these shapes, your whole grip. We're not getting too deep about it. I like life changing. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, anyway. And then, yeah. I got a bit of a bit of a story to ask then. So, yeah. So, I was a trade-aer and then I ran the trade-aer team in Manchester. And then, he's actually one of my favorite things. I'll prove your CEO's child's ID. Yeah. Yeah. Just like I generally started not doing me away from trading. And it got a bit more technical. Like, you know, as a trade-aer, I always quite enjoy spending time with clients. Yeah. You know, it was, I guess, relatively commercial in that respect. And actually, the needs of a trade-aer, you know, with more and more DSP, it's more testing. You know, I guess the industry has just got bigger and more complicated. Like, yeah, I guess my, maybe my skill, so it wasn't as well. Yeah. So, yeah. And then, just then, you know, just lucky. I think, I think that, I think the technical background, whatever you call it, I think it's out. And helping me as I'm like, and then, yeah, then running some more of a sales-based role at MIT. And also at MIT, very much at a forefront, a program that you can tech write. Yeah. So, having that trade-aer, I must have helped. Yeah. So, yeah. So, I've been, like, lucky enough to learn from some amazing people. Yeah. So, remember, walking in on day one, on Poland Street. So, yeah. And just being like, well, a mix of intimidation or just thinking, "God, I know, I'm never even able to do all that." You know, when you, when you can learn from some really smart, great people. Yeah. And, yeah, you know, your skills are just right. And, yeah, look, like most of the people I'm out on my first day, or a good chunk of them are still there today. And I'm sticking the roles all around the world. And, yeah, you know, the last, the last year or so, you know, about the last couple of years almost. But, you know, starting coming down south. So, eventually into the world of London media. Yeah. And, yeah, I guess like one, one thing. Yeah. One thing that I guess is different, maybe, to a lot of people who've had my role before or similar roles. So, you know, I don't, I don't know about many people. Yeah. Every day I'm meeting more and more new people, like obviously heard names. But, I suppose, part of something that doesn't make that too scary is, I guess, it's absolutely nothing I can do about it. Yeah. Not about magic wand. I can't suddenly have 20-year relationship through loads of senior folk agencies. So, it's got kind of a, yeah, that role with it. And so, yeah, it's what you're trying to do. It's going to be a good case, though. How do you find it? And, in the spirit of total honesty. Yeah. I am, when I got my role, I spoke a lot about one, say close to clients. Yeah. It's quite hard. You know, I have a lot of internal meetings now. So, yeah, so that's been the one learning curve is like, not as much time with clients as I would like. Is it absolutely getting into the, yeah, getting into the rest of this year and next I want to change? Yeah, for enough. And how will you find the role now as CL role? Is it something you're enjoying doing? Just, it's a big role, a big business, right? And coming from the training team. Yeah. That must be a huge difference. So, is that kind of way you envision yourself for? Yeah, definitely not. Look, I guess, you know, yeah, for me, I run a bunch of business for a little while. But quite a while, alongside my colleague Tom and then for a while I was in the region. So, I guess I'm quite used to having that. Yeah. I need to, you know, process that. I've always always got a target. Yeah. You know, so whether you're, even as a trade or the global salient. Everyone has a target and so all that. I guess he's up. I mean, it gets a bit bigger and you know, it gets your ability to personally deliver that target. It gets a bit smaller. Yeah. Well, you know, but the sort of pressure and the stress of it hasn't, you know, totally honest. It's not massively different now. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, a lot of thanks to the obviously your journey is very unique. That's really good to hear about that. But MIT was a business as I'm sure most people know that I've heard of you guys. I always at the forefront of new technology and leading in the tech space. And I've left here and about, you know, sigma. It's a sigma, maybe the last 18 months or so. Tell us a little bit about that and the challenges that you're helping customers and advertisers to overcome. Yeah. So I've got a few notes on this one because it is. Yeah. And I think trying to piece it down into a few key themes. So, you know, there's a lot of talk and a lot of debate. Yeah. Both of that I might hear an externally about collapse of the football. Yeah. So, you know, I personally, I don't, I think two things. I don't necessarily 100% agree is totally collapsed. Yeah. And also, I think ultimately our end, as an industry, our end of the Titans, who are advertisers, invest in talking about the football. Yeah. And it's kind of awesome to think about some completely different. Yeah. However, you know, I think one thing that I'm 100% clear on, we are as a business too, is that there's a better way if you can continue with the hatred. Yeah. Which I guess, that's where, you know, actually the business is now. But also that's what sigma aims to help support and the challenge aims to solve. And so, yeah, sigma is a beast of a probably a time. We're not trying to solve for everything, but we are intelligent sweet. And we split by into sort of three core modules, which are reflective of how we see consumer benefits today, which is watching, browsing and buying. Yeah. And so, you know, watching is really all about helping our clients and our partners understand how consumers are, how they're exposed to how they engage in video content. You know, so whether that's the big screen or on social media. And I guess it's kind of valuable. That's what TV is everywhere. Yeah, of course. And you know, I guess, yeah. It's really interesting, because I've been back to the 50, 60 second out on the big screen, and quite obviously very different to a free second video on that sort of course. But it's not fundamentally different, right? It's just there's there's there's there's no degrees and so yes that's what watching is. And then browsing, that speaks to your sort of bit more open web, you know, it's like your research and investigation, you know, you sort of domains and that springy and stuff from AI search and that kind of thing. Sure. And then buying is I guess the final piece of the puzzle, which is yeah, you know, well how do what do people buy? Yeah. Comments and retail media and it actually really interestingly been bringing, you know, bricks and mortar stores back into the mix. Now, like if we talk about a sort of traditional one, and you could almost argue that watching browsing and buying is a bit like awareness, consideration of intent, and it does definitely not happen. Well, you know, yeah, I guess the interesting thing for us is that there's knee neck, there's no way where the funnel is relevant, right, is actually somebody could watch an Netflix ad and be convinced of this way or whatever you want to call it, it's going by some kind of media at least about sort of, you know, it's less than me about the funnel collapse and but it's more about the stages of the funnel being completely spread across every channel, right? And every way, every touch point that consumer has to engage with advertising. And so yes, that's like, you know, we talk a bit about states of mind and modes and that's where that watching browsing environment comes into signal. I see, yeah. Okay, cool. And how is that related to what you're doing with advertisers and challenges is so important for those guys? Yes. So, I mean, that's the, you know, there's like, you know, the last five years, it's seen a huge rise in CCTV, for example. Of course, yeah. Yeah, big part. Yeah. Huge rise. Now it's the fundamental. But only, you know, five years sounds like a lot of time, but it's not an id you know, I don't think I have how old television is this as a medium. Yeah. Don't know exactly what my voice is getting close to 100 years, surely. Yeah. And yeah, anyway. So, you know, this time I've stopped coping with it, there were no Netflix sets, there's no others in that. Whereas now that will be on pretty much every big media plan of course. Of course. So yes, so a big part of that, how we use watching intelligence is helping people understand how does CCTV fit within the wide internet? I see. So where, you know, where is your audience who's maybe more leaning into linear television versus you can't even do streaming than the rest of them? Yeah. But actually, I guess what I'm saying is a bit different, I'm really sharing people. Yeah. You know, it's called hard data about that. Where are your agencies for incremental reach? Where is maybe your budget's not being used as efficiently? Absolutely. And not just for you, but actually for your competencies. So we see a lot of them, you know, you see the agencies leaning quite a lot because it's not that, you know, your fingertips insights that is, you know, immediately actionable. Yeah. I bet that's so well received. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It is too thin. And then, you know, I think we'll come on to this in a little bit. But what I really love about it is that, you know, all the data, the situation is, you know, the same data that our traders will then use to run campaigns. Sure. So there's nowhere where, yeah, it's not like we have a shop from, you know, shows people some sexy data and then behind the scenes are doing something else. Yeah. Yeah. There is, you know, direct connectivity between insights that people believe from single there. And the campaigns of the traders then run. Yeah. Yeah. You know, which you like. It's just yet very powerful. Yeah. Yeah. And I know AI is embedded within Sigma as well. Right. That's a bit part of it. And are you seeing kind of tangible results using Sigma and AI now to get up? And is that making a real impact? Yeah. And we've got, you know, Sigma fundamentally is, you know, an AI powered technology platform. Yeah. It's used in a lot of different ways, and, you know, from really simple stuff, I'll say really simple. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. From a bad word phrase, I guess there are some sort of native functions within Sigma, but people would expect to sit, you know, you can type in an audience persona that you would like to, you know, like to target it, I'll give you a nice LLM generator description of that. Yeah. That's the thing about percent, right? Yeah. But what's really interesting is, though, that again, when we talk about that connectivity, it will immediately show you, like, where can you hit that percent, you know, across, across those free fundamentals of watching Browser Levi, you know, that makes sense. Yeah. To sort of then, you know, yeah, it has some like market place AI functionality. You know, for a better way of saying it, but with very much ingrained with how it might you do things. Yeah, that's it. And then, yeah, I know that's what would be probably no surprise, there's all sorts of agenteic capabilities, you know, so trading agent, you know, which is, that's my stuff. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, you know, we're just even for simple stuff, like show me how my, show me which of my campaigns are under the following. Yeah. So, you know, I did, and we all, you know, did, like, it would have, I'd spent hours, and I was doing. And then, I think we, you know, we'd probably talk a bit more about it, like, I guess we're still at the infancy of where it will go. I'm saying that it's already doing things that, you know, mind-bombling, we'd better. But again, not that long ago. Yeah. It's really interesting. Actually, because when AI first talked about an idea of me, I was not against it, but I was just, well, never going to really be using it. I literally use it every day in my job. Yeah. And it's interesting, because you touched on it there, and you see, it's stuff that you used to do as a trader. So, obviously, AI is doing a lot of things or helping in areas where, like, planners and buyers and traders would normally function. Do you see it ever completely taken over that, or do you think we always think that human elements go with it as well? No, well, I guess I fundamentally humans will always be important. Yeah. You know, that's the creative power. And, you know, I was about to say intelligence. And you know, I know that we talk about artificial intelligence, you know, but the way I look at it is, like, the AI for a minute is doing a sort of hard. You know, it's from an intelligence perspective, you know, it's like sort of that brain processing power that we don't, you know, probably don't think about what exists. Whereas, you know, we work, you know, the creative industry, and, you know, I think, regardless whether it's, you know, how we make it seem, the art or, you know, how we design something, even from like a trading perspective, for example. That knowledge, intuition, that ability to test things, I think it's something that we definitely, as everybody, people also, I personally believe, will need. But what he will enable us to do is just do more with less. Yeah, it does very much all the hard jobs. Yeah, and we will be able to do more campaigns in more countries across more platforms with more data. Yeah. With, you know, that same more person. So it's actually quite, you know, for anyone who is in a technical role or has some of the elements of their role, the AI is helping more with knowledge. Like, for me, it's really empowering. Yeah. And it's like it's great to go one way, you know, again, comparing yourself to even our free years ago. Yeah. So it's something to do more, learn more and spend more of your time speaking to clients and do things that are interesting. Right. And last time sat in a DSP, Cricking Buttons and download an Excel report, which is well, you know, boring. Yeah. Yeah, 100%. And you mentioned them. Obviously, MIT are truly on the channel business, right? What does that on the channel mean in 2026 now? Like, what is good on the channel as far as, and what does that look like for you guys? Yeah, it's a really good question. And so it is like the latest. Yeah. And I think, you know, I need to try and not go like hardcore sales. But we love it. Yeah. Speaking of that, I guess, going back to speaking about MIT Hughes history first. Yeah. And we always, so this is a word that I don't think I've ever used outside of the word at place. But we always spoke about agnosticism. Yeah. So it was like, when we're not times when we were on the SP, one day on one, you know, publishing relation, anything like that. Yeah. You know, we have to say agnostic approach to the market, which translates it in bringing the best solutions for our agency partners. And that was before I'll need to, you know, I don't think I'll need channels necessarily, but a word about that. Yeah. And so, you know, what's happened then over the last 15 years is that agnosticism has lent itself very nicely to my own channel. Yeah. So for me, and I guess for us, I'm like, you know, only channel means, only channel and only been all. Yeah. So, yeah, the way that we see it is that you can't have something that's truly on the channel without YouTube, without messing with our Amazon. Yeah, without display, without audio. And, and luckily enough, I guess that's the business we've built. And it was just to tap into everything from a digital ecosystem. Obviously, that's like, that's not to say that every single person we work with binds everything like that from Amazon. Yeah, but that's, I guess, the ideal for us. Because underneath the channels and the platforms and the inventory we can access is this data. And so, yeah, taking the, I'm like, keep it out. I think that, you know, regardless of whether you're accessing a full channel suite or half or 10% or whatever. Yeah. So, the most important advantage for brands of advertising on your channel is that like connect to a tissue of data being around across, you know, more channels across every third of the day. Yeah, across any of the areas. And that's not, you know, that has a few different ways. That means like, you can, you know, you can do, you know, and speak with a couple of sort of planning agencies where they'll go and do a, you know, a big piece of work for brand. We're all nice. of that personas that, you know, we know sometimes I can be like four or five different personas in total, it's really big multinational household name branch, you know, that they, those personas speak to everything they do as a business partner in their own products, have a ship product, you know, and how they advertise to people, and so if you can key data to, you know, those five personas and use that to run across all your digital and all the way channels, like you win, right? So that's like number one, but equally, again, we're going back to plugging it in more of the watching the browser and buying it, you know, it also enables you to assess like when for out of the day, and you know, how often you should speak to people across what channels, and also like all of that is just really difficult. If you've got, you know, 10, 15 different channels with 10 different, 10, 15 different ways of defining an audience name, that is hard. So yeah, and I can talk a bit more about that. Well, it's interesting when you said there's something I picked up, you said obviously not everyone buys across everything, all of the time, right? And obviously that would be the government, that would be brilliant if every client did that. Do you obviously have it on the channel and have all that data with it, is brilliant for clients? Do you find that clients like planners buyers, but like that tends to look at things statistically on the channel now, like there's a one or a still looking at channels separately and kind of buying them separately, but you can offer a bit of everything. Yeah, I think you know, it varies. I guess, you know, landscape, you know, we, you know, like taking a step by, like, advertising industry, you know, decades and decades old. Yeah. There's a lot of really strong foundations and ways of working, you know, take ages and ages to change, right? Yeah. And even then, programmatically itself is only as, you know, is a small part of the overall advertising industry. And then only channel is like, even smaller chunks. So yeah. So partly, you know, I think that as an industry, I guess partly, we should be creating a change and we should want to be able to move to what's assigned here, or planning the buying realistically. But, you know, that you can't just drag and drop into this. Yeah. You know, you can do all of the, you know, these big global multinational corporations who will have whole teams of specialising in certain channels and, you know, their own internal teams who may be one of the parts of it. Yeah. So, just practically speaking, you know, it's going to be very difficult to, yeah, to do that very later, you know. What we are seeing, I think, is where, especially, especially where there's like, if it's like an international element, or multi-country targets, you're almost like taking, you know, maybe you want to run four or five channels in, say, 10 to 15 markets. Yeah. Like, that's the sort of brief, the sort of campaign that we do see more and more, because then it's like, it becomes, it becomes like almost madness, not to have one connected data set sitting underneath all of that, because if you suddenly start to chop all of that down, you know, you're going to end up with thousands and two thousand campaign lines or different stuff. So, that's the, you know, the sort of immediate sort of premise that we make. And I think, yeah, you know, I guess, you know, right, I guess I'm not quite a lot now, but I'm going to say, it's still new. I think we all, I think we got sort of all, uh, speaking about, you know, a few years ago, maybe five years ago, but it's only been going for the last sort of 12 to 18 months, it's become like a really core state of, you know, most people's picks. So yeah, over time, and actually with, I mean, with all the other things, I don't know, I do think maybe it's asking me the same question again in 10 years, it would be very different. Yeah. And do you find, in terms of like measurement of campaigns across, obviously, you get different channels? Is it tough for clients and agencies to be able to measure effectively on the channel, if they're measuring six, seven, eight channels at a time, what is that? But are you finding that is a problem? I mean, it is. Yeah, it's a massive challenge. Yeah, you know, that bears, um, got you out, you know, this is, yeah, this is a huge topic, right? Yeah, because yeah, especially, you're speaking to the fundamental sort of, uh, measurement. Um, you know, so there's a lot of it coming in. Yeah. It's like attention. There are up with tests. There are a whole not tests. Yeah, there's a lot of, um, a lot of tests that we've found on measurement options that have been around for ages, and we've learned themselves absolutely fine to on the channel. You know, you could have run a geo-holdout test, you know, in several different cities, and they could all have different channel, you know, it could quite, you know, wouldn't be that difficult to work out like with channels the most effective. But then, you know, what we find is that that, that sort of, um, that sort of measurement doesn't very often seamlessly fit with how a brand actually measures things. Yeah, so she's very after mass click, or they might have their own MMM, or they might have a third-party measurement solution. So yeah, so it's like, there hasn't always been options, but, you know, they, they, um, they don't really translate very well into how a brand looks at stuff. And, you know, and now I guess there's, um, more and more channels of coming. I mean, there's more and more different identifiers. So, you know, so I guess what I'm trying to say, there isn't necessarily, like, a whole-legal solution. Yeah. And we've actually, you know, we, we will be, we've launched in beta, a protocol, sigma-table measurement. Okay. Yeah, which, which aims to try and do that, and acts as a bit like a, a mini MMM. Yeah, so, you know, so that, that's something we're rolling out at the minute, um, we said lie, we said lie, we said lie, we said lie, we said lie, we said lie, yeah, yeah, that's in beta, right? Yeah. But yeah, like, we realize that we also have an access to a lot of data. So, we're rolling, you know, quite a lot more of channels ourselves. So, yeah, we have an extended period of time. So, yeah, I think, yeah, I think we'll, again, on the measurement piece, again, I think we'll see, we'll probably see all businesses crop up with our solutions and more businesses like M IQ, trying to solve that, um, yeah, as the agents, as the industry moves itself in that direction. Obviously, in the industry, progressing in love, um, I've been in the last couple of years, you know, there's a lot of sectors that we spoke about on the channel, we've touched a little bit on AI, because there's a lot of developments coming there, but like, for you, what do you think is going to be being the next 12 months year or two for the industry? Where do you see it going? Yeah, so, you might see it as a bit of a cut-out right behind me. I do think the answer is still AI. Yeah. So, I said before, we still agree. Yeah, still massively, you can see what, what it's going to do for us, which isn't like the most obvious. Statement of a century. But I think, I mean, actually, there's a lot of ways in which AI is still going to be something we're talking about in 12 months. So, there's, you know, there's still, like, the operational, not just efficiently, but like, how we do our jobs as businesses and more internal processes, and, you know, how is AI going to help all of that? Yeah. You know, actually, you've been fairly tired of the time since that, like, how are they going to work and models to work, right? And then there's, like, Peter Frauser's a programmatic industry, there's, like, how will AI change the way in which we operate business to business? Like, how are we big? And, you know, yeah, loads of testing and loads of talk going on about that, the minute. And then lastly, there's, like, AI, not in terms of, other than business, not in terms of how we work business to business, but AI is actually coming into the ecosystem as an advertising product. That's what I was talking about. So, you know, so yeah, we were one of the, you know, large testing partners at OpenAI, and yeah, you know, I've just been on the ride as it starts launching more and more markets in which it got great. But, you know, so I find out really interesting, like, I think in 12 months time, we really interested to see, and, you know, where does that sit? And we know a lot of agencies that have been suffering the surge team. Actually, we've gotten, you know, I know a lot of people have seen it. We were really hard on how to create a point of difference using, almost, like, traditionally, programmatic data, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, systems. So, you know, will it sit predominantly with surge teams? Will it be with programmatic teams? Like, I think that's all still being worked out. Yeah, very much so far, isn't it? Yeah, and very similar to when TTV launched. Trying, like, you know, it would be a bit easier to do. The digital teams, actually, that kind of cadundrum has never been really been fully sold. So, yeah, so AI was like, yeah, massively, and that, that might not be really cute. But, yeah, I also think we'll probably still be talking about outcomes. You know, so that's, yeah, that's been, being quite a hot topic in you, lots of, lots of agencies that have been speaking about how outcomes are going to be important. And, you know, I guess, like, that is basic, like, outcomes for us within programmatic is, you know, just a way of transacting, that, oh, you know, on a media KPI that enables a client to, like, buy a lot of masks, that looks like, you know, most basic. But then, expanding that a bit further, it's like, it also speaks to how, I think, how both media agencies and businesses, like, am I cute. We'll start to get a lot closer to, you know, to the metrics, to the end of the title. And so, yeah, there's quite a lot of, you know, well, I can't quite a lot of talking, but there are panels and industry pieces around how the role of the CMO was evolved, and how, you know, that work with the CFO is, like, fundamentally a lot closer, and it looks more different types of things. So, yeah, like, whilst we see outcomes, yeah, again, it's a way of, by me, actually, I think it's also going to become, how would we get closer to what matters the most to the client, like. And that's so important, right? That is fundamental, yeah, because that is the key thing to be delivering the clients. Definitely, yeah. And that's, like, that's, um, how do you always speak about business challenges, you know, like, as a, as, you know, managed service programmatic partner, certainly, back in the day, it was quite hard to get back, but yeah, we've always been quite keen on working towards a metric that matters the most business, but I just think now about. that is going to become more and more fundamental to every after size at agency part of their relationship. Yeah, 100%. I'm going to put you on a little bit on the spot here, but you're a perfect example of someone who's excelled in business for a long time. You kind of started as like an entry-level type of person who progressed all the way to the top, all the way to the sky row, right? For someone who joined in the industry right now, what any kind of bit of on the spot advice should give them, how could they get the most out of it? Yeah, good question. Yeah. I love doing this on an exit. It really puts people on the spot. Yeah, absolutely. No, so I've been here. I've just seen number one. You know, I just feel really lucky to have been kind of stumbled across this career. I've very humbled you to say. I do. I find it excellent. I find it really fulfilling and, you know, it's where it was really smart people. Yeah. You know, it's a learning lot. You know, it's like, it's really challenging and when you're stressful at times, but, you know, it's not, you know, not never really been so well in the level. But, you know, one, I guess, is like, you know, not feel lucky. Yeah. I mean, you know, just like, I recognise that this is a really big opportunity. It's a, you know, it's a hard, like, a great career. Yeah. And, you know, and then there's all the obvious things, like just, you know, like, reading the street press, you know, and it's all, like, again, you know, bringing it back into the mix. You know, you can have, you know, daily digested, the most important things happening at tech or programmeatic. Yeah. And there's so many ways to learn. Yeah. No, excuse really, keeping on top of what's happening. I like it. And this is going to sound an obvious, but just enjoy it. Yeah. Yeah. We've been afraid, sometimes, we're not out there saving lives, right? Yeah. And we're so excited to say that. Yeah. I think it's a great idea to be enjoying it, right? Yeah. That's a great bit of advice. And we were talking before. We started growing as well. You were saying it takes you two and a half or three hours to get into London. And you just touched down on the podcast that you don't really, it's just not like you're based it. So you can actually job making a new ones. But you're obviously really trying to do something that you haven't done before. Yeah. So, yeah. It's a perfect example. I'd say for anyone joining. But, um, that wraps us up. Yes, Rob. Thank you so much for joining us. That was brilliant. All right. Yeah. Rob, some good stuff. Thank you.