The Shards, and why everyone is talking about the Korean film Hope

In 2002, Ryan Wedding was an Olympic snowboarder at the top of his game. "Ryan's style is really gunneted and gold." And in less than a minute, it slipped away, but he continued to chase the high. "Ryan James Wedding, he controls one of the most violent drug trafficking organizations in this world." I'm Michelle Shepard and from CBC Podcasts and the Toronto Star, the most wanted Olympian. Available now on Amazon Music. This is a CBC Podcast. Sometimes you just need a trashy TV show to take your mind off of everything that's happening in the world. And for a lot of people this summer, that show has been "The Shards." It's a murder mystery set in 1980s Los Angeles, and the finale has just landed. I'm Emil Niazi sitting in for "Eleminabdel Mahmoud." This is "Comotion." Kaya Shanyada and Allison Herman are here to talk about the show. Welcome back to "Comotion." Thanks for having me. So Kaya, "The Shards" really has it all, especially for the 80s. We're talking cocaine, porn stars, disco. It's Ryan Murphy's adaptation of the Bret Eastern Ellis novel. And I want to talk about that novel first. Ellis has described it as a work of auto-fiction. So tell us a little bit about the book and what he sort of means with that little nod. Yeah, so "The Shards" follows a 17-year-old senior named Bret, who is based on Bret Eastern Ellis himself. And the character attends Buckley School in Los Angeles in 1981, which is the exact same private school that the author himself attended. And 1981 was of course the year that he was a senior there. So while the protagonist setting and other characters he has set are based on true life, he then introduces a fictional serial killer named The Trawler, who terrorizes him, his friends, and their community, to kind of spice things up a bit and add some fiction to the auto-fiction. Okay, well, sounds pretty interesting. Let's check out how that translates to a TV series. It was supposed to be the best year of our lives. Me, my girlfriend, and our two best friends had it all. Until the hot new guy showed up, then people started dying. That's a bit of the trailer for The Shards, with actor Igby Rigny playing the role of Bret Eastern Ellis. So this series comes to us from Ryan Murphy, the producer behind everything from Glee to American Horror Story, and of course this year's Big Hit Show Love Story. Alison, how would you sort of describe the defining characteristics of a Ryan Murphy show, and then how it meshes with that sort of Bret Eastern Ellis sensibility? Yeah, I mean, there are certainly reasons on the surface to think that these two people's aesthetics are compatible in a way that makes for a good adaptation. Both Ryan Murphy and Bret Eastern Ellis are gay men of around the same age who have had a queerness, be like very central theme in their work. And Ryan Murphy also has this long-standing fascination with horror. He's, of course, behind American Horror Story that fits with a lot of the gore and also the glamour that is in Bret Eastern Ellis's novels. And I think the early warning sign perhaps is that Ryan Murphy also has a real reputation for a maximalism in his writing where things tend to kind of start strong, and then go off the rails as the plot elements just pile up and the tones just get more of a mishmash. And I think you saw a lot of those issues in this adaptation as well. Well, I love that you bring that up as far as issues go because it's generated a fairly polarized response. You know, the Guardian gave it five stars, calling it the, quote, "Ryan Murphy come back, we've been waiting for." But the telegraph gave it one star and said it was, quote, "Tedious 80s nostalgia." Now, Kaya, you're part of the pro-shards camp. So what sort of hooked you in and why do you feel it ultimately worked for you? I think it works because it has so much audacity. Like, I do understand where the positive reviews come from and where the negative ones do. I lean more towards positive because I think that, like, this show feels like a culmination of everything that Ryan Murphy has in the past done well. Even though sometimes it's a bit too self-serving. But I can understand why people don't like it, but it feels smart and fresh, and it does feel like he's toned down a bit in towards how zany he can get. And I think the show feels more concerned, more than any recent Ryan Murphy show, with the psyches of its characters and these characters as figures rather than just set dressing. And I think that it really showcases how, in this period piece, we have these characters who feel like people we know, they feel like the younger generations, they're very self-serving, they're very concerned with themselves and not necessarily the community that they live in. So I think there is kind of, at least from my standpoint, a vision of Ryan Murphy trying to keep his aesthetic alive while also, you know, fleshing this out more so than his most recent series happened. You know, I heard you say it sort of concerns itself with what young people are doing. You know, even though it's set in the 80s, do you feel it does capture that kind of sensibility of, say, Gen Z's and Gen Alphas? Yeah, I think it really does. And it's interesting because like we have the 80s music, we have the 80s costumes, but these people feel very steeped in our current reality. I think this show is very focused on how individualization can kind of doom a community. Yes, this is focused on a group of friends, but they are not concerned about each other in a way that a group of friends this close should be. At the end of the day, we have a serial killer running around, but still we have our singular desires taking over this concern that should be there. So I think that it feels like a period piece in the way that it looks, but narratively it does feel like an examination of where Gen Z and Gen Alphas have gone and also where they are headed. So Allison, you said that the first two episodes, at least of the shards were pulling you in. So where did the show end up falling short for you? I mean, I think I should probably say I'm a huge fan of the novel. I'm an Angelino over a decade. I hold a lot of its contents and themes very close to my heart. And I don't think every adaptation has to be a completely literal transplantation of the original text and people are totally free to interpret and add things as they wish. But I do think in the process of watching the season unfold, everything that is added by Ryan Murphy almost sticks out like a store thumb. And there's been reporting since that the first two episodes are the ones for Freddie St. Ellis, the author was involved. And after that, you start to get these sort of jarring additions like there's an episode centered around a dance off TV show that just didn't read to me like anything that these, you know, selfish, sophisticated teenage characters would be interested in. Or there's a character, Rhonda, who's new to the show played by Ivy Wolk. And the way the character is used is because she's kidnapped. You see the serial killer at work more than you do in the novel because he's obviously unpictured. And I felt like that and a lot of other choices the show made really dispeled a lot of the sense of suspense and dread that you really need to build in a creepy murder mystery like the shards is supposed to be. Hmm. One thing I find really interesting is that two of the leads are played by Homer gear and Kaya Gerber. Of course, if you're not familiar, that's the son of Richard gear and the daughter of Cindy Crawford famously married for a brief moment in the 90s. Now what do you think about the casting of these two nepo babies and maybe what it does to this idea of rich Hollywood and and the kind of like lore that it creates Allison. Yeah, I actually thought my favorite casting was of Ickby Rigny as the lead. I think he really adds something to the this portrait of the young British and Ellis and I actually took a lot of issue with the casting of Homer gear and Kaya Gerber, not because of who they are, but because the roles have specific qualities that I didn't feel that either of them were able to convey on screen. Kaya Gerber's character Susan is supposed to be the sort of fresh faced all American goody two shoes who's being led to the dark side and Kaya Gerber really comes across like who she is, which is a sophisticated model in her mid 20s who's really seen the world and doesn't need to be tempted and Homer gear. I honestly just think had an incredibly difficult part assigned to him because he's supposed to be you know plausibly seductive to Susan but also kind of off putting in creepy to other characters in the show and it's really hard to synthesize all of that new character. character, so I don't quite fault him for it, but I also didn't feel like Robert. as this antagonist was as magnetic and compelling as he needed to be. Those Nepo babies, you know, you just never know what you're going to get. So Kaya, this week brings us the season finale of The Shards as someone who's invested in the show. Was the finale satisfying for you? Yes and no, narratively. Yes, I'm satisfied with how those final moments shape up. And I think it's really fun that like the first seven minutes of this finale are kind of a culmination of the entire show. It's like an elongated sequence with Igby Rigny's like drooling narration and we have an 80s tune playing that's played before and then the kind of stylized slow-mo cinematography. And I think it proves that the show does have some artistic merit to it, which I don't often feel with Ryan Murphy productions as of late. But the reason I say no is because this finale ends opening the door to a second season. And I don't necessarily feel like this is a show that needs a second season. And I'm not sure that these characters or this production team could pull this off a second time if that makes sense. And if this first season is already so polarizing, how is that going to work if we're making another nine episode season? Well, Alison, I know you might not necessarily recommend the shards, but it is a bleak time out there. If someone wants to watch some trashy TV, what would you recommend? Well, I think I would be remiss if I didn't point people at least towards the novel, which I thought was incredible and really satisfying and does have a definite conclusion unlike this first season. But in terms of television, you know, I'm going to sign office and I'm going to start binging the secret lives of Mormon wives. So that's my real trash that's cute up for next. Hey, you don't have to tell me twice. That's exactly my flavor of preferred trash. Well, thank you both so much for having this conversation with us. Thank you so much. Thanks for having me. Alison Herman is a TV critic for Variety in Los Angeles. And Kaya Shunyata is a freelance film and TV critic in Toronto. You can watch the shards right now on Disney Plus. In a world where the news feels bigger, louder and harder to make sense of, Canadians need more than headlines. Hi, I'm Karen C. Olin, news reporter and host of the big story podcast from world shaping events to the everyday stories that spark debate. My team and I will explain what matters and why it matters to you. We're here to help you make sense of the news and give you the context you need for those kitchen table conversations trusted, Canadian focused, curious, listen to the big story, wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Ameliazi sitting in for Elimina del Mahmoud. This is commotion. Okay, now moving on to monsters of a different kind. We are talking about an epic new movie that's already been a massive hit in Korea and had critics talking about it at the Khan Film Festival earlier this year. It's called Hope and Here is a Little Clip. So that is a bit of the trailer for Hope. I mean, you can hear from the movie the music that it's ominous, something terrifying is about to happen. Michelle chose here to talk more about it. Michelle, welcome back to commotion. Hi, it's nice to be here. Okay, so Michelle, this is an epic film with genre-defying twists and turns, but in a nutshell, what is Hope about? It's very hard actually to summarize it because it is such an amazing mashup of things, but I would say it's a sci-fi horror mystery, also black comedy, action thriller, and it's about these unknown creatures that are attacking a small village near the border between North and South Korea in the 1980s. So the film is really a set of chases or kind of these thrilling, kinetic set pieces that involve, you know, the police group of village people trying to find these monsters or creatures, whatever is attacking them, and they're moving through the town and it's like surrounding mountains and forests. So it's really that simple. Clearly the 80s are having a bit of a moment. Oh, yes. Yes. So you watch Hope. What did you think about the movie overall? So I want to start off by just saying that the response to this film has been incredibly polarized, like people either love it and say it's the best thing that they have seen in a long, long time, or they are really puzzled and sort of put off by it. So there's literally no middling type of response, like you're not going to go "meh." It's also the most expensive film ever produced in South Korea, so that's why it's generated a lot of this conversation. I saw it in a packed theater last night in Toronto and the audiences that I was with, the viewers were cheering, laughing. There was a lot of fun being had and it really felt like I was, I had like mistakenly found myself in a Marvel movie screening. It was also sort of that demographic. So I would say if you're someone who really likes, you know, action cinema. This is one that you cannot miss. I really enjoyed myself. I had tons of fun because the film just, it looks and sounds incredible. It's shot by my all-time favorite cinematographer, Hong Kyung-kyo, who it's funny because there are some viewers who are like, the cinematographer is the only reason to see this. He's doing everything, all the heavy lifting. But it's true, this guy has had longtime collaborations with filmmakers like Bong-jin-ho. He's the person who shot parasite. If you liked that film, you liked how it looked. You're really going to love this. But yeah, there are two kind of settings or scales at play. You have a local sort of drama happening. So much wide shot nature scenes that are just so immersive and beautiful to behold. And then you have this sci-fi element, which has been the point of controversy. But for me, it didn't, it's controversial because people don't like this CGI. But for me, it kind of worked to have these two worlds crashing into each other and not without a ton of friction because that is literally what the film is about. My friend was at that screening last night and I ran into him afterwards and he said, he liked it. It was the loudest movie he'd ever seen. So hope stars some pretty big name Korean actors alongside some notable English stars, including Michael Fastbender and Alicia Viacander. Can you talk about some of the Korean actors in this film and how you felt generally about the performances because there's a little twist to how the English actors show up? Oh yeah, absolutely. So this film, it stars like a really a set of really high-profile Korean actors. Hwang Jung-min plays this kind of bumbling country sheriff. He's really fantastic in this. Just his movement, the way that he like skitters around totally out of his depth is really funny but also very anxiety-producing. Choi In-sung, who's a heartthrob is actually one of this group of hunters, trackers who's trying to help out the police to find the monster and he is sort of an interesting kind of physical presence. He's very beautiful. He's also in another film that's showing in Toronto at TIFF right now playing a kind of glamorous heartthrob type. So it's interesting to see him kind of appear in this role but in a very, I mean being handsome is not going to help you in this moment and then Chung Ho-yeon or Ho-yeon, she kind of goes just by her first name. audiences will know her from her breakout role in Squid Game where she played this young North Korean defector. She's actually a model most of the time like that's her her main gig and so she's very beautiful but in this film she plays this really kind of tough as nails police deputy I guess and she's really great as well. There's also this like extended cast of character actors and so the Korean cast is really excellent and they just do such a great job of conveying the the dread and anxiety and just sort of adrenaline fueled panic of what's happening in this town. but there's also these like comedic elements. I feel like that might be polarizing, but it's actually very common in South Korean films to have that black comedy come in. In some ways, because when you're in some of these situations, you can't really help but get some relief with laughter. It's just that that's the only way to manage. So I found that really great. You mentioned that fast-mender and Alicia Vikander in this as well. There's a very deliberate move to kind of alienate us, the audience from them. I won't spoil too much, but there is a conscious move on not as part to make the homie sort of village people, the people were with for a while until that twist. Very interesting. So a lot of the conversation around Hope has centered on the genre-defying sort of approach to the story, and it's not something we are necessarily used to here in North America. But it is, as you mentioned, kind of an integral part of Korean film culture. Can you just sort of quickly tell us about that part of it? Yeah, absolutely. The reason why I think South Korean films are so adept at genre-bending or building up genre expectations and then flipping them is because, I mean, they're both artistic and commercial reasons. So most Korean filmmakers have grown up as cinephiles who love Hollywood. So Hollywood has kind of trained them in certain ways for the kind of sensory impacts of cinema that they're aiming for. But they also are consumers of a range of other national cinemas, and you see that just in the way that Hope played at Khan, the Confined Film Festival. But as it's really presenting itself and moving forward in the world as a kind of genre action film. So I think that South Korean filmmakers, they kind of need to ride this line or be very skillful about how they are aiming towards multiple audiences. So sometimes they seem like art cinema other times they're very commercial. And the latter, commercial films are obviously more popular and profitable. And so in order to export in order to reach viewers outside of Korea, outside of a kind of dedicated group of folks that seek out international art films, they have to be really good at kind of bringing together all these film languages. Well, Michelle, so interesting. Before I leave you, just quickly, is there anything you wish the film had gotten to that that was missing for you? I mean, I think that there's going to be a lot that's lost for folks who are maybe not as aware of the fact that so North and South Korea are still at war. There's a reason why there's this kind of atmosphere of paranoia. And also why the people are so like ready to fight and blow each other up that is a big part of that history. So I wish there was more of that and more of a setup there. But otherwise, I think it's a great thrill ride and you should go see it if you're into that sort of movie. Sounds great. I mean, I was sold at loudest movie ever. Well, Michelle, thank you so much for having this conversation. Michelle Cho is a professor with the Department of East Asian Studies at the University of Toronto. Hope is in theaters now. And that's it for commotion today. I'm Emile Niazi sitting in for El Aminovdel Mahmoud. Thanks for listening. For more CBC podcasts, go to cbc.ca/podcasts.