The Shampoo Effect

Welcome back Redheads to another episode of the Redheads Book Club August edition. Your girls are here. We're together. We're on time. We're thriving. Hello to my Redheads. How are you doing? Helper fabulous. We doing this. I'm so I'm so glad to hear it. How are you doing? Slowdice. Oh yes. So we are recording on Monday and it was just announced that tomorrow I am on the second lady, the slowest of the United States's podcast called Storytime with the second lady. She has a podcast for children. That's all about reading children's books and so camper and counselor got tapped. So crazy. Go to the White House and so the teas are just dropped for the episode. The episode comes out tomorrow and I'm so excited because now everyone will know that that I'm doing that and I did that. I predict numbers will magnify on our camper and counselor Redheads podcast episode. I was going to go back into the archives to find it after they see that. If they really want to know the behind the scenes and the making of the camper and the counselor. Did you talk about me at all? Of course because they asked about like the inspiration for the book and she asked a lot about like my sisters and growing up with sisters. So I touched on I touched on counselor snitch. I did. Did you think it was weird that you call your sister snitch? She didn't meant if she did she didn't mention it. But she might have just snatched. But she might have read the forward which in the forward I make clear that although your name is snitch like you are a beloved character there is no snitchery. There's a snitchery of foot. Yeah so I'm really excited for everyone to hear it. If you guys have kids it's like perfect for kids. We do a reading of the book. Talk about some of the major themes. It's giving Redheads. It's giving Redheads for kids. It feels like the Redheads made this possible in some way shape or form. Being a major figure in the literary space to do this podcast. The Redheads made it possible. And you know what? That feels right. That feels right. Well I want to get into this month's book because I finished it this morning. I feel like it's on the tip of everyone's tongues and I'll and actually for the first time in forever I feel like I'm all caught up with you guys because we had so much fun last month. My friends came to visit me out in the Hamptons. We caught up. We swirled it up and so I actually just like breathed over the catching up with the girls because I feel caught up with the girls but for the listeners Dana, Becky, Snitch. How's everyone doing? Dana let's start with you. Oh the only update is I saw my girls in the Hamptons last week and it was a hell of a time. We hit the town. We got a good lunch. I feel my soul is satiated. Nothing more to say beyond that. Yeah we had a great time. You can hear the full recap on the toast of our girlie's really adventures. But let's just say annual tradition. Did someone say girls trip? The trip made it out of the group chat. Snitch you should have been there. Claudia was here. Yeah. I'm really sorry. I mean like you guys doing it on a Monday is like snow-dive all along. No that would actually the recipe for six hours. Like hack. Not only like on Mondays do we have like our schedules in order and we can like take some time away from our families but the weekends are so congested in the Hamptons like we didn't have to wait on lines. We didn't have to make reservations. There's only like a Thursday is easier. There's this repopping in the hands. There's this repopping. It's a Monday Tuesday or it's not happening. For me personally like our girls trip will be consistently taking place on a Monday Tuesday or on a Monday. That's so crazy. Breath it. Give you Agita with work like taking up a Monday. No you take off. No you take off. Joy. I take off a Monday and a Tuesday and then I'm back in the office Wednesday and then it's the weekend. It's genius. Yeah. No we totally like hacked life. So if you guys are planning a trip with your friends if you're some mature women if there are some mothers in the mix like make it a Monday Tuesday affair one night only my friends like stayed at a hotel that was like close to where I am. So everyone had agency we had cars we had plans and we had a ball. No you should have listened to me about the one night only I was like I can't leave. I'm staying a second night. I was so upset next year it's two nights only I'm sorry. We could we could have had a second night and then a second night I miss you guys are ready. And then of course like doing it every year it's giving like Ellen Hilder brand novel. Yes. And then I think like maybe in a couple years at one of our mothers weeks we will write the novel. Oh that's so sweet. Yeah that actually sounds like really good. I'm also actually going on a friend annual girl's trip in a couple weeks it's the second night. You always are. But you you literally go on a monthly girl's trip. So it's just like this was our good story. That's true. Okay shall we count the months? Yeah but like I most of my trips are work trips like when's the last time I went on a girl's trip vacation. Like to last week. Yes or that. That was work. That was the M.A. Canada. Well Snitch that's a good segue. They were literally three years ago. What is your upcoming annual trip and what's new with you? I'm going to San Trope in two weeks. I'm so excited. Second annual trip. And I'm just so excited because you guys know like I really like love and need a vacation. So are you saying that you've been so excited to go there and soon you're going to know how it feels? Soon I'm really going to know how it feels. And do you think that San Trope will look great and that it always does? 100%. I don't think like true or words have really ever been spoken. Are you wishing the Frenchman of San Trope a hearty mausleto? Um I guess. I'm wishing them a hearty mausleto. I'm having Snitch in their presence. Me too. I'm so happy for them. Like they don't even know what's coming. Yeah. Okay. Well let's get into the book if we can. We read the shampoo effect by Jenny Jackson, which was a Snitch's choice. Snitch, this is your episode. Do you have the floor? I know. Snitch, take it away. Okay. So we read shampoo effect by Jenny Jackson, which might I say I slayed because everyone is talking about this book now. Like it's all over book talk. Like it's like the book of the time and we chose it. Like how timely are we? You know? Yeah. And we weren't too early or too late. Yeah. And you know what? I don't know if you know this but like finding up and coming stars is kind of like my specialty. So like I did that now. Who else did you find? Belmont Camelli. Oh, I'm talking about work stuff now. Yeah. It's like my specialty is up and coming stuff. I didn't know you should have been an A in our Snitch. By the way, I say that all the time I should have been an A in our like the way that I discovered like like singers before they pop off. I feel that way sometimes too. It's like, A in our, I don't know what actually the dance for me there. Discovery and music. People who like scout. Yeah. Okay. It's like when people like scout football players, this is like scouting like singers. I feel the way about Dominic Fike. Like I discovered him. I was obsessed with him and now he's blowing up. Sorry. Go on with the summary. I went to a fray concert before. I have really bad breath. My mouth. Oh my god. Anyway, this book is about Caroline Lash who is a nepo baby of a writer and she essentially you know is having a not midlife crisis but midlife crisis and so she moves to a random town called Greenhead where she then kind of immerses herself in the town in the culture and of course starts dating somebody and then kind of gets involved in like their friend group but it's very convoluted because the person she starts dating then ends up knocking up someone that he's like kind of in love with, not in love with, unreally not really clear. And so then you just learn about all the different dynamics of the this friend group and it was written in all different first person of each female lead in the book. And there's a lot of you know secrecy, a lot of just sort of drama but then ultimately once Caroline and this man do break up because he wants to be there for his kid. She writes a piece for the New Yorker that is about this friend group and all their trials tribulations and secrets and you know she obviously hides the names but that doesn't change anything until all these secrets are kind of brought to the surface and then there's a lot of drama that unfolds in their relationships and their marriages and you kind of see how that all plays out and it's also harking back to she went this Caroline lady went to Greenhead on a fellowship for this author called Preston Parker. Who knows he's fake Palmer Preston. And he kind of did that 50 years ago. He like wrote a book sort of about like the people that he was around and involved in and kind of blew up their lives and so she kind of did this 50 years later and it was super duper interesting and so with that guys what did we think of this book and I'm gonna pass it I'll actually talk about myself first. Yeah. I love this book. I really did. It kind of was giving me like desperate housewives. Like I can't explain it. I loved it. I thought it was so interesting and normally I don't like switching the narrator and that did still kind of bother me because like when we'd get really like into something and then all of a sudden it was like onto someone next and then it took like four chapters to get back to where you were. I did find that a bit annoying but I know that that's obviously just a choice but I loved it and I just like wanted to see where it was going. Like I couldn't really put it down. Is it queen? I could say I loved this book. I very very much liked this book. There were so many things that I liked about it. I liked that what you thought you were reading at the beginning of the book was really like not what the book was about. I really liked how it felt like there was like a general consensus among all readers who read this book that like actually the person we thought the protagonist was Caroline who you think you're rooting for. She's you know having her eat prey love moment and she's like meeting the guy and she really likes him. It's like oh we actually she's not our protagonist. Like she's not our queen. I actually quite hate her. I really started to like the other girl. that we met along the way and it's so funny because you think this is a story about like Caroline Lash and at by the end of the book it's so not I mean they do bring it back to her but it's not about her it's about like these three women and their lives and I love that like I think my favorite scene was when Caroline was like getting eaten alive by bugs on the kayak. I just felt like she deserved like she just deserved the worst and she was the worst and it just takes you a while to realize that and like realize oh no I'm actually not reading for Caroline anymore I'm reading to learn about Augustine her husband and Fran and her husband and the kids and like you just don't really realize how that's sort of like you think Bailey is like the op to Caroline it's like oh no actually Caroline you are op that's how I felt at least like just sort of it just kept changing and so I liked that I didn't know where it was going I thought the writing was really good I thought the story was really good I also liked how like it seemed like Caroline was going to like some remote place where there's gonna be like one guy there and they're gonna like live in a cabin and you know I don't know do smut but no they actually move to like a she moves to a very wealthy island and all these people are like very moneyed and very historyed and there's just like a lot of story about the people there like the people there are far more interesting than she is and she thinks she's like so evolved and so progressive and she just comes off like such a dud I thought it was gorgeous um so I really liked it I love that Jacks what did you think I I really really liked it I honestly always was looking forward to picking it back up whenever I didn't have her in my hands and I think you bring up a really good point which I was kind of ideating on myself which was when I started the book I was like team Caroline all the way I would really thought that like she was going to be the key voice throughout and halfway through I looked around and I was like where's Caroline at like I haven't heard from her in a minute and it just became so much greater like the the pieces together just made such a greater story than Caroline and her perspective um I liked the changing narration and like the the voices that we heard I really like hearing from Fran and like her weird wacky relationship and like just the composition of like all these characters and like their funky little stories coming together um I will say that um um I forget what I was actually just about yeah I was about to hammer home a certain point um it'll come to me ladies but ultimately I really like the story I love the setting I thought it was like also a perfect summertime setting I felt like we were like living it as we were reading it just like being on the beaches being on the shores having a a mosquito or a fly or two come into our zone of peace so it was like a perfect summertime read I really enjoyed my time with it oh good Dana are we gonna go four for four four for four in a rar cross over with this nitch's choice I loved this book like I was looking for criticisms and I was gonna say it was a little long at me andard some things were like keep it simple I know I can't even say that I loved the like aimless sometimes dialogue that didn't really further the plot I didn't hate Caroline as much as you jacks like I felt a little bad for her that this guy that's seemingly perfecting kept over promising that he would never again look at Bailey the same then she had to find out and kind of a rough way that he did go back to her like I had a little bit of a soft spot I also felt like I couldn't relate to any of these characters on a personal level like none of them had the same values or lifestyle as I did and it made me like them more I found them so interesting and there were there was two things that stood out one when Caroline noted how with her vanny talked about books and they were like that's weird I've never heard my husband talk about books and it shows kind of the incestuous of a friend group that's been that close for that long you just like fall back into the movie quotes into the inside jokes into the plot and maybe they could have benefited from getting out there and like exploring life a little more but ultimately they come back to royalties stronger than anything else and that was powerful for me yeah I feel like there were a couple things that like they really nailed I will say like having Caroline observe the friend group and how like you know she knows they're just gonna talk about the time the janitor got locked in the closet like how boring it's so true like when we get together all we do is tell the same stories and that's like so fun for us but I also feel like it's different and healthier because we all have like full lives outside of that and these people are just constantly with each other but then you also get to see it from the inside of the friend group as like Caroline as this sort of interloper and how vanny is like so different with his friends than he is with her and to them he's just like this predictable nerd and how to her he is just like this stable smart guy and how that one person can be those two things based on like where what environment that they're in so I thought that was like really smart but then even the way the author described like Bailey being very independent throughout her whole pregnancy like this isn't gonna change anything I'm gonna have a baby and I'm gonna be me and that's that and I don't like vanny like how giving birth and like becoming a new mom just like cracks you open like down to the studs and like you just you're still you but so many things like change in rearrange and then when the friend then explains that to Caroline how like even if vann comes back to you like he's not the same person and I just thought all of that was just so well done to the point that like even though in the beginning I don't want vann and Bailey to get back together they don't seem to particularly like each other and vann and Caroline are matched like when she finally like gives in Bailey finally gives in and like you know wants vann back you are rooting for them and it does seem to be the exact thing that each of them needs and what Dylan needs and of course these two other people are gonna be together how could they ever have been a part but then by the time they do break up here again like of course these two people are gonna break up how could they ever have been together so we just like really nail those different periods in your life where like and with hormones and just like newborn babies versus like toddlers how just things change so quickly like every season is is short and I actually thought it was sad because Caroline and vanny like couldn't ever see a world in which like Dylan what vanny wouldn't be there for Dylan in the way that he was in those early months but even like Bailey said at the end now that like Dylan's eating food vann can take him for a long stretches of time and we don't have to spend time together and like that is the time for Caroline to come back in so there was sort of a yeah because you think about single parents all the time it's not like no single parents can ever have a relationship because they're focused on their child but a single parent of a new born yeah might have a hard time I was thinking about that when the donut was left on the roof of her car because it's kind of like oh well they like what does this mean are they back or they gonna like find their way back and I was like I think that cheer point like a single mom can for sure find a partner and a father of a child who's not with their birth mom can for sure have a relationship but I do not think that Caroline and vann can find their way back to each other I think she's just caused too much damage I think like the goods are too spoiled I think that her dynamic with Bailey like they're forever going to have to be intertwined if Caroline and vann end up getting together and I just don't think that there's a world where like they can all coexist like I think that this group is mature enough to like kind of like forgive Caroline be like okay like that girl like yeah she's fine but I don't even think Caroline is mature enough to like hey I'm gonna have to talk to them yeah she could barely be around them when like Augusta was giving the cold shoulder let alone everybody hates you you almost caused divorce I really liked vann's speech to her when they did break up of just explaining like I thought back then something but I'm a completely different person now I thought it was respectful and I liked like she really showcased what you were saying of how she's like once you're done with sleep training you can just come over once he's done having this rash you can come over and in the newborn phase he's like no like I want to be there it's not a matter of like once this is done we can be together like my priorities have re-aligned and I no longer want to be going to your shack after and like making out yeah remember what I was gonna say ladies yes so what I was feeling when I was reading it was that there was this big event that was about to unfold and I felt like the entire time I was kind of like holding my breath a little being like I wonder if this is the chapter where like something crazy is going to blow up and while like the dropping of this New Yorker article that like blew up a bunch of people's lives like sort of was that I it was it never really happened and I don't know if anybody else felt that way but like it was kind of a discomfort I felt throughout my entire time with the book that I was like something is about to go down like I thought that Bailey that Dylan like her Bailey had the baby with like Colin like I thought it wasn't I thought that for a second too yeah oh my god that's crazy yeah I did someone referenced at some point being like oh yeah like this group of friends like they're so incestuous and like they're so chaotic and drama filled and I was like oh look that's the seat like something is about to be planted and like blow up did you guys know Maxine uh you are e-bond and Colin were gay because like I figured that out immediately no no I figured it out like on the page right before like you know like as you say it's like oh okay no I didn't even figure it out like once it was a spell of me yeah no I did not see that coming at all um okay can we get into the TV because I'm sure okay today's episode of the redheads is brought to you by Lisa if you are looking for an amazing incredible mattress you have to check out Lisa having a wonderful cozy mattress is so integral to a pargy life especially as a lot of us like to read in bed spend a lot of of time in bed. 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That's f-o-r-h-e-r-s.com/redheads. Forhers.com/redheads. Weight loss by hers is not available in all 50 states. We'll go via the registered trademark of Novo Nordisk AS to get started and learn more including important safety information. We'll go via clinical study information and restrictions visit forhers.com. Consider the novels title, the shampoo effect, where new feelings in drama build directly on top of old history. What do you think it symbolizes in tandem with the storyline of the book and do you think it was a good title? There's already shampoo with the studs here then if you had no shampoo in there. And when you say a little "curt" remark to a family member and you've been so rude to them over the years that it just cuts deeper and it could set something off that if someone at the grocery store said that it wouldn't have the same effect. So there is a shampoo effect. Was that the central theme of the book? No. Did they use the term "shampoo effect" in instances when there wasn't really a shampoo effect in my view? Yes. So I don't think the plane landed on it but I respect the effort. No notes. I respect that this book wasn't called like the summer after I remembered that summer. I mean, right. At least it was creative. I support the shampoo effect but reading that description and the studs, I was like my eyes had rolled so far to the back of my head that there might be a residual mark. We got full street by this author. I hated, hated, hated it. I was so upset when I realized it was the same author and I was so relieved that this book was a thousand times better written and just good. Wait, I loved the name of the shampoo effect. I thought it was so smart. Because I understood what she was saying and I just felt like it was like that makes sense because they've been friends for so long and there's so much underlying stuff. There is a piece of it. Like a piece of, yeah, they've been friends for so long and so things are amplified when someone says something or if someone kisses someone or whatever. I didn't think that was like the whole book. Also something that I wanted to point out because I didn't think this. On the book cover, it said like one of the quotes I guess I got from somebody. "Unforgettable, laugh out loud, funny. Dash, Catherine, Newman. Did anyone laugh?" No. Actually, some of Bailey's parts I laughed at. I thought she was kind of funny. I didn't laugh, but I thought she was funny. Yeah. No, I think that was probably a gross exaggeration. Okay. "Did any character remind you of someone or a character you've known or even yourself?" Not myself. I really could not see myself in any of these characters. Okay. "Arger and what Fran's switching off, getting fucked up and doing like. Oh my god. I'm really having a very low tolerance for that." Same. I was annoyed. But like that was chipping away at things. Fran reminded me of Lynette from "Dest for Housewives" a lot. I guess. So actually, this story, Bailey going to a cabin to write, reminded me of "I could live here forever." Remember that book that we read from the Red Heads? Yes. We're so good. I think it was getting her MFA. I forget maybe in Maine. And that's when she fell in love with the addict. But like that, they felt very. I was getting such reminiscent energy from that story of her being in a cabin writing. And then all of a sudden, Arger, I was like amazing when they did the basketball shoot-off and he was like, "Dun, done, done, done." I love that scene. I love that scene. Me too. I think the point she was making is she never asked anything. So when she finally asked it of him, he's like, "Yeah, sure." And not that it's always so simple and people could nag their husbands forever to stop drinking and whatever. But like, I don't know. Just try asking once. And she asked a little too much with the doctor's appointments. Oh yeah. Why can't you do any? Right. I thought it was funny when they switched perspectives from Van convincing Caroline that he would be there for her forever. It wasn't like that at all between him and Bailey, Bailey and him have nothing. And then the next page was Bailey being like, "I'm pretty sure he's always been a little in love with me and if I snap my fingers, he'd come back." I thought they did a good job. Me too. Contrasting how little she cared about like them and how much they thought about it. Which friendship in the novel felt the strongest to you? And which relationship felt the healthiest? Augustine, Colin, I thought had the most potential minus that huge lie that he had been withholding. But what did you guys think about the lie? Like, should have. He had come. I really couldn't reconcile it. And I actually feel like the reaction was underwhelming. Like, I thought it was really fucking crazy. That like, your husband had been having sex with your brother. And one, you didn't know that he was into men. And two, everyone around you knew that this was a thing and like, you look like a fucking fool. Like, I think that like she didn't react enough. Yeah, but I mean it's like she could get mad. She can blow up because she has like every reason to be mad on so many friends. Like the fact that they did it, that they never told her that everyone knew and nobody ever told her that even pretended to be mad about like, gash that her and her thinking that she did something wrong. So say she got his mad, say she beat someone up, say she was so, so, so, so mad. But it's like, it's about the aftermath, right? Like, now what? Does she really not want to be with Colin after that? Does she really want to never forgive her brother or her friends? And I feel like they did a really good job of making you realize like, yes, if that were to happen like in its publicized and its so embarrassing and like, how can you show your face and she has like a total meltdown. But at the end of the day, like it's her life. And when she's like in her house with her kids, like what does she want? And like whether she, if she takes him back, like there's nothing to be ashamed of. Like she's the one who wants to live her life. Like it doesn't matter what it looks like. And so I felt like they really, I think at the end of the book she was my favorite character. Yeah. I felt like she was the one who really came the furthest. You know, in the beginning there were all sort of the same to me. Some like boring like bitches, whatever. Bailey stood out immediately because she was funny and she was pregnant and she's like hot and confident. So that's always fun. And then like her and Fran are kind of like the two duds. Fran stood out by like drinking and like doing drugs and being like super chill. I'd also like working with like a government or whatever. Yeah, I'm being super chill. I just felt like Augusta, even the stories that she told about like growing up in the summer in France and like the tent with the girls like these just like horror stories that could have knocked her down. could have knocked her down, but she's like, you know, she's at the top of For even though we know that a lot of the things in her life are sort of like a lie, she's at the top of her game, you know? She's parenting, she's crushing it. She's actually in love with her husband and has like a really nice, there's just this one thing, but like if they can get past it, like everything else really was good. So I was happy that she did because at the end of the day, the only person she's punishing by staying mad is herself and like that was so evolved to like also then recognize it. What about me, made people feel like they couldn't tell me not that you would ever catch me. I mean, it's my own fault. Yeah, never. But also, but also I just wish we got a little bit more of like the after in terms of like, did she have a conversation with Colin about him was like, are you gay? Like do you want to mean like or when did she talk to she didn't really talk to her brother what on the swings for five seconds? Like I would have like to see a little bit more of like an explanation. I agree. I feel like for a group of friends that was so close and this story is pinned on this overwhelming closeness between this group of people. I do feel like their deep conversations were quite lacking. Like Bailey, not being sure if she could brooch the topic with Augusta at the nail salon after seeing your friend go through like the most traumatic unraveling of her life in public might I add? Like you don't want to touch base like you're not sure if you should like bring this topic up. Oh, maybe, maybe this is my one chance. I guess I'll bring it up like in the last five minutes of your hangout. Like that was kind of shocking to me. Maybe it's like a wasp thing and like I just simply don't understand it because like I will share like the my innermost thoughts like with perfect strangers. But I was like, I felt a little disconnect there that I was like, I feel like there's a lot of like real conversations that are not happening that you would expect to happen based on like how much you tell that these are like your besties for life. I totally agree. I enjoy Augusta's recognition when she thought he was shooting on her with a woman because she found a thong of when she asked the question, how do you know of someone cheating? Like do you think someone's cheating? She was cognizant that no one said, why are you asking? And that like struck a libel moment of like, oh, they know something and they're like withholding of the question indicates that I am in the dark of some sort. I also was so crazy that she like put like through the thong away and then like put it back and then like threw it away. I was like, you're not going to keep this for evidence. She I love the description of her quantifying her anger and like, mountains of sand and like she can make a box for this and this and this. But like what is she going to do with it at the end of the day? Yeah, I guess I also just like like a rational thinker. You know, it's like she did that emotional thing throwing it in the garbage and then she's like, wait, no, let's see what happened. Like we're going to leave a trail and I don't know. I just appreciate that. I have a question. Did you not think it was weird or not not think is weird? Sorry. When they walked in on Zoe having sexual relations on their couch while babysitting their kids, like, you know, like, you know, maybe you should have gotten like reprimanded or something. Like if you had someone watching your, I'm a genuine asking. If she was so relieved about the thong, she overlaid. Yeah, she was. She was. Yeah, she was. She was. Someone watching your kids and your kids were asleep and they invited their partner over and they got down to business on your couch. Like, are you okay with that? Um, no, however, I think people do that. Like, especially when you're hiring like young people and the kids are asleep. Like I think they sometimes invite their boyfriend over. That's like kind of a cliche. Yeah. And two, you know, it's like, it's hard to find a great babysitter. No, totally. My question is, it's like, if you had a great babysitter, you loved her so much and you walked in it on her having sex, would you let her go? Only because I couldn't face her again. Not going to be so disturbed by the act, but because like, how am I going to look this person in the eye ever again? Yeah. Yeah. And like, and that would be a no for me. But I can understand why like it wasn't for Augusta. You're on mute, right? It was pretty crazy. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Okay. And what do you think about the characters in the book struggle with resentment towards friends, parents, partners or even themselves? Which character do you think carries the greatest burden of resentment and like, it makes sense? Frank, I, um, Torch, I was trying to write, yeah. Torch her family. Oh, yeah. I loved that scene when she like turned to her brothers and she's like, and you guys were fucking assholes to me. Yeah. I needed those brothers, but it was like almost too heavy-handed. No one would act like that if they're insignificant and someone's offering to bail them out of, maybe they would. But I think maybe they would. No, I think like these men are like immature like bimbos and they actually probably are that nasty. I was just sad seeing when her parents like were mortified and the brothers were yelling like, ah. Yeah, it was sad, but it was necessary. And I do feel like all of RJ's crimes are like washed away by the fact that he was so stand up of a guy at the end, but the drinking and the weed and the smoking at work and taking care of the kids like, if he hadn't had such a redemption, I like deadbeat. I agree. Like the scene of Fran bringing him to her work, the kids to her his work after like having to pick them up from the nurse's office and then like him being stoned. I was like so unbelievably pissed for her. And I don't understand how she seems like. She seems very chill. No, she was seething, but like she just didn't, she never asked anyone for anything more than what they gave her. So she just sort of like packed it away, but I don't understand how like you can get high at work and then drive home and take care of your kids. And are people playing with their kids high? And like, our people are getting through parenting and it's like, I would expect that you would get high at a school year to play with the kids. I could not get down. I'm very common. Yeah, but like, I'm sure it does happen. And it also like, I think that people like in construction like might actually get high during the day. I mean like when I'm walking by construction sites in New York City, I smell people getting high all day, every day, like it's for sure happening. I just didn't like how they rationalized by taking turns if they were like the next unlocks level of parenthood like you guys are freaks. Yeah, but I think maybe at the beginning of the book, they made it seem like they were enlightened and they sort of had this parenting hack. But by the end, you can see that it's not an endorsement of that style of parenting. Yeah. What did you guys think about what Caroline did in writing that fucking loser behavior? Dylan, like beyond. I would never, it's not that I wouldn't forgive her because I wouldn't think I would just hate her. I would never want to correct it. Then got back together with her, which I think that he will. Yeah. And I also think that he should separate himself from this friend group. Be with bat like no enemies, nothing, but like they don't have to be like how they were. I don't think he should be going on these trips. They make fun of him. They don't like it. And they don't see him for who he is like now. Everyone is sort of like growing in different directions. And I think that he should be with Caroline because like that's his person. But they shouldn't be a group like how they were. I don't think it's like a healthy situation that they had going on. And of course, he's always going to be involved because he's Dylan's dad and like Bailey is in the group. But even Bailey is sort of like one foot out. She's friends with the women. They don't have to hang out like in couples. And now thinking about the outset of the book, the fact that there were eight friends. Three of them are couples and two of them have history. Like of course the whole time it's like these two should get like we weren't introduced to him like that as like part of an eight sum. We were introduced him as like Caroline's rugged, you know, nautical boyfriend. But now in like thinking about this group, it's like oh yeah, if he's sort of one foot in one foot out with this girl and it's part of a bigger friend group, like he has no chance with someone else. So I think he does need separation from the group. I would never have Caroline lashing my life ever again. A bigger loser I could never find. I felt viscerally in my soul when she ran into a gust at the market and a gust of like looked over her and was like we don't talk to strangers. Yes she is. She ate that. I felt bad for her. Augustine have to see her in the wild and then I was so glad that she humiliated her to fill that she couldn't even buy strawberries. And what a weak loser. You can't you drove all the way for strawberries and can't buy anything at them because the girl whose life you ruin doesn't want to talk to you. Seriously, I was most upset about that. I was like damn the strawberry sauce. She didn't deserve them. The only thing else I say is I imagine it was just a cathartic exercise to write down her thoughts and maybe she never thought it would get to the level it did and she just submitted it without really thinking through her actions because she wrote it when she was mad. Idiot. Idiot. I don't. Ah yeah. I also don't think she realized that no that Augustine didn't know about Colin. She did. Friend told her she didn't know. Yeah. Did she? Yeah. So she's like only thinking about herself. Meanwhile, and she said this later on when France explaining motherhood to her and she realizes like I've never sacrificed anything. I've never not done like exactly what I wanted to do. Right. She's so self-centered like thinking about what am I going to write? How do I feel? I'm heartbroken. Meanwhile, these people are going through some real fucking shit like money problems, family problems like raising children. She's just like, oh, I'm Gwendolyn's daughter and kiddin' like me like at all she thinks about is like herself and everything affects her and it's like girl, it's not about you. And that was the moral of this story for me. It was like you think it's about you and it's not about you. We can we talk about that? Her napatism with Gwendolyn and like her resentment even though like Gwendolyn's work with fire on us. Oh, I had no patience. No patience at all. Of course. I mean, that's like a common trope that's like, and I'm like, I'm not going to do that. And I felt like she kept trying to acknowledge her privilege and it's like, I don't even know what that what she should have done, but it wasn't what she was doing, which was just complaining about her. If you don't want to live in the shadow of your famous like pick a different career path than a writer. I don't know what to tell you. Like if you're gonna go into the same exact industry, you will always be colored by her. - At the start of the book, she and Van were like going around, like talking about like their interests and disinterest and they said like the top three things they don't like in Caroline's number one thing was nepotism. I was like, oh my God. - Oh my God. - Oh, no. - She was such a fucking pick me. - No, it was a damn movie. - She really was. - Like, not here. - Did you find the conclusion satisfying? What do you imagine happens to these characters in five years? - I was most like glad that Augustine Collins seemed to work through it. That was like what I was really hoping for by the end. Like everybody else, I was like, you'll figure it out. But like them, I would have been so devastated if this broke them. - Yeah, I agree. - Number standing the heinousness of Caroline, et cetera. I did think from an author's perspective, it was a cute ending of the donut on the car, just for a full circle, like how we an end this. - Sure, sure. - I agree. But also, can we also talk about the Ned Clark Bailey? - I love that. That was just like a funny bit. I don't even know if like Caroline will ever know about that. - I know. - It's just like funny. There's literally two guys in the channel. - I hope she finds out. - Yeah, and you know, she'll make it about herself. And the spiral for six months. Like meanwhile, Bailey's like so moved on. It's just funny to me. What I didn't like is it felt like towards the end of the book there was this feeling that like Caroline, while it was painful, like did some sort of service by airing all of this out because they're better off for it, which they are better off than they were in the beginning of the book. But there are other ways to excavate things than like being a Maris in front of your entire town. And then, what do I think for in five years? I think this group needs a little bit of distance from each other. I feel like the bad behavior like comes out when they're all together and like, they can have those trips and like that, those memories and then nostalgia. But like it was a little too tight and a little too like close quarters, I would say. So I think like, you know, the girls doing the girl things, but like as a group, it was just, it got to be too much. - Agreed. - Agreed. - Agreed. - Okay, now for the more snitch. - Thank you. Does everyone feel satisfied? Like we spoke about all the things they want to talk about. - Yeah, I really do. - I thought it was interesting that we never heard from the men. I kind of would have liked to hear Van's perspective. - Yeah. - Especially because they don't know that that happened until you just said it. - I actually had the same thought, right? I was like, yeah. - Well, it was just interesting. 'Cause everyone was like speaking for Van. Like, oh, Van loves Bailey, but he doesn't like her. And it's like, does, I didn't think that was true. He seemed like very genuine when he said there was nothing with him and Bailey. But I would have liked to know how he felt about everything. Same, like had Bailey in the same announcement to him that she was pregnant said I want you to be with me. I have a feeling that he could have said yes, but we would never, we'll never know without his opinion. - Right, in the beginning of the book, I would have been like, no, no, he doesn't like her. - Yeah. - Just to tell her how they're happened. And you know, if they're gonna be friends and they're gonna be co-parent, duh. - Yeah. Okay, now what was the moral of the story, Jackie? We know yours. - It's not, not everything is about you. I think that's really strong. The truth will come out eventually and it might set you free, it might end in divorce. - Truth will set you free is a good one. - Yeah, the truth will set you free is a good one. - Yeah, I agree with that. I think that is good. - Okay, the truth is also you free. - Okay, and with that, let's get to our redheads rating. - Ooh, Margot, you go first. - I'm a calculator. - I'mma give this, I'mma give this a four, five. - Okay. - I'mma give it a four or three. - Okay. - I loved it. - You too. - I am giving it a four or five as well. - I'm giving it a four or four. - Look at us, we're all lined. Once last time this happened. - I don't know. - Overall, I'm about to tell you. Our overall redheads rating, four shampoo effect is a 4.425, which brings it to number five. - Wow. - On the redheads. - Who is it? - Right, what's it above and below? - Our number one is fourth wing. - Oh, that fucking look. - Number five feels high, frankly. - Well, actually, number five. - Number one is fourth wing tied with broken country. - Oh, so good. - I don't remember that book at many of the. - Number two is before we were strangers. - So good. - I like that. - Number three is Strange Sally Diamond. - So good. - Number four is the wedding people. - It did like that, but it feels high. - I think we just all liked it. - Can I just say? - I think this is sort of a kin to the wedding people. - By the way, can I just say, besides working country, these are all my picks. - Yeah, I also need to see their room. - That's kind of crazy. - Okay, but the thing about your picks is that they are either top 10% or bottom 10%. - Why are you looking at the cup half full? - Oh, sorry, I just need to let you know. Then the God of the Woods is number five. This would be number six. I'm sorry, this is number six. - Okay, I actually feel like that is fit into those. - Yeah, that feels right. - That feels right. - What's seven? - I agree. Number seven is a flicker in the dark. - I love that book. - I think about that book often. - The nature of fragile things. - I never knew. - Then the Midnight Library, Lessons and Chemistry. - Midnight Library is a book that I think about all the time. - We just nature. - We just nature. - The one about the earthquake. - Yeah, I don't know how it's got so high. It's like been on a bad run and we wear it. - Where is Clara and the Sun? - Clara and the Sun is in the middle. - Or Spokawall time. So definitely in the dark. - I think about Clara and the Sun all the time. - The dark time. - Especially when I'm holding my oblong. - And my dark Vanessa lives in my head too. - My dark Vanessa. - My dark Vanessa, my dark Vanessa, like this week Dana. - Yeah, literally. - My dark Vanessa's 28. - Wow. - We've had a lot of books though. - Okay. - That is your recap of the Shampoo Effect. I'm so glad we all liked it. I hope our readers enjoyed it along with us. And if you didn't like it, I'm sorry that you didn't have representation in this episode. - Yeah, so true. - Did anybody read anything else this month? - I did. - What did you read? - Oh yeah. - You guys, I read three books. - Wow. - Snow big deal. That's average in a book a week, ladies. I've read. Thanks so much to Emily Halperin as our Halper's read, "Exchord and Air." I texted Snitch and Emily being like, "Do you guys have a beach read?" And Snitch didn't respond, thank you. - Yeah. - And Emily was like, "Yeah, like the Sunday Morning series." And I was like, "I don't know what that is, but I'll read it." So I read this series. Sunday Morning was one of them. It was actually pretty good. Like it was a total check-flick rom-com, like Smuddy Book. So dumb, but like honestly, like kind of entertaining and a perfect beach read. But number two in this series was called The Apple Tree. And it was literally the worst book of all time. Like horrific, offensive, like borderline illegal. Like should be illegal. Like it was about like an 18 year old falling in love. - Yeah. - With this like older man. And like they kept talking about her age, like being like, "Just do, for 18." - By the way, I just want you to know she had recommended that to me also as well. And I thought the same thing. I loved Sunday Morning and I hated Apple Tree. - Oh, you read it, Snitch. - Yes, I read it. I don't answer group chats, but I would have loved for it. Like you'd just say one thing about it when I was going on a diet trip. - I'm sorry. - Like that was crazy, Snitch. - Oh, sorry. - And then I also listened to Lena Dunham's memoir, "Fame Sick," which was very, very interesting. I learned a lot about Lena. And she's really smart and like can be pretty funny at times. And so I thought it was worthwhile. And I enjoyed it. - Okay. Well, congratulations to you for all that reading. - Thank you. - Finally back in my groove, I read two and a half books, the first being Kevin Wilson's "Run for the Hills," which I finally finished. I had started. Eh, still the best one is our redheads. One, nothing to see here. Then I finally got on the train in "Red Strangers" by Belle Byrdon, view of previous episode for written Jackie's recap of that one, excellent. And then I read the things we never say by Elizabeth Strout, my beloved favorite author. - Okay, okay. - No, you wouldn't say it. You'd hate it, but Elizabeth Strout is one of my favorite authors of all time. She is the goat next level incredible. And this book did not disappoint. So those were my three. - I am still working through a book that I started this month. So hopefully I'll have an update on it next month. - Wonderful. - Next month is my choice. And I am so excited to use this as an excuse to read a book that I've been wanting to read that is so buzzy by one of our favorite authors. We will be reading "Mad Mabel" by Sally Hepworth. Sally Hepworth has written so many of our favorite books here at the redheads. And this book seems to be amazing. People are loving it. It's super buzzy. It's on the best sellers list. And I keep seeing it. So that is what I want to read next. And we will be reading it together. And I think it will be the perfect book to usher us into fall, back to school season. And I can't wait to read with you guys. - Love you so much. - Love you so much. - Thank you so much to the redheads, to our host and to our listeners. We love you dearly. And we will see you next month. Love you, bye. - Love you, bye. - Bye. [BLANK_AUDIO]