The Secret Star Life: A Former MICHELIN Guide Inspector Reflects

(upbeat music) - Welcome to a very exciting podcast episode. I have been waiting for this one for quite a while. Today's guest is a bit of a unicorn or maybe a baby, give me the picture. She is here to tell us her story and answer many of our questions. Why is that different than any other guest that I've had on the web palette podcast? Well, my guest, we will call her P, just to still keep her anonymity, spend over 20 years with the Michelin God as an inspector and the very mysterious, secretive ones that we're always trying to figure out. Welcome to the web palette podcast. Thank you. Thank you, it's an honor to be here with you. - And I'm just gonna ask yours. - Yes, thank you, I'm so happy you're here and I'm just gonna keep laughing the entire time because of the photo that she chose to put as her profile picture, which as you will learn goes with her personality. Thank you for taking the time and interest and speaking to me about this topic, I obviously find fascinating. I feel very honored, P. - Thank you, thank you so much. - Okay, so the way I've structured this for us is to have our conversation and then I will move into the questions that the listeners and viewers have sent in. And does that work for you? - Yes, it does. - Okay, so to begin, please tell us a little bit about your journey before becoming an inspector. - So I was born and raised in Sicily and arrived in the Bronx, 1975. So a lifetime ago. And I adored the Bronx, I live in the Bronx, this is my burrow, but I worked for Barbara Walters. I was the first business manager at the view. And then when to, during that time, I obtained a BA in cultural anthropology at a local school and master's degree from NYU. And that is where I met the woman who ultimately then became the director of the Michelin Guide in 2005. So many years ago, but that was the trajectory. - Okay, and then how was that connection with the guide? - So when I met her during school, 'cause she and I were in some of the same classes at NYU, she then hired me as a consultant, 'cause this person was working for Exxon Mobile Travel Guide, which is now Forbes. And for almost two years, I was a consultant. During, I was working full time for ABC, but I was also a consultant for Exxon Mobile. And then when she moved on from there to Michelin, she suggested that I apply for an inspector job and it was a rigorous, very rigorous application process, but I managed to be hired at the end of the day. So it was through that connection. It was a connection through NYU, 'cause I had never worked in restaurants, but my background was so specific, very, very tailored to what I think Michelin was trying to do early on. And she thought I was a good fit. And ultimately, I was a good fit 'cause I was hired, but it was rigorous. So you were a consultant for Exxon before a consultant to a capacity in what? - So I had, I don't know how many properties to, to review and restaurants to review. And they would just give me, I think it was like the New England area by and large. And I just did, I went and visited because at that point Exxon Mobile was you visit, you have a meal and you do the report blah, blah, blah. Same thing, I'm not sure, I'm sorry. I should say it's not the same thing that Forbes is doing now because I think they were, they were pay consulting company. But so that's what I did for almost two years. That's how she knew, I shouldn't put words in her mouth, but I definitely was someone who had proven that I know how to read what the, not worth, but what a restaurant hotel, if they are doing what they're supposed to do for the grades that they were getting. So that was a good two years for me, almost two years with Exxon. - Right, so I was reading a little bit, I know you sent me some amazing links to review and I was reading and listening to some of those and watching some of those videos and they talk about how, like you said, rigorous the process is how many different stages it was from getting hired to, well, from interviewing, to actually being a solo inspector. Can you ask us through that a little bit? - So when I was hired and I was sent to France, I was sent to England, I did some time in Germany and Italy, I wasn't in Spain, but at the same time, the people that were on the ground in New York at that time were the most fine inspectors in the world. I mean, they had been there for 40 years plus and they took it incredibly serious to walk each and every inspector that was being hired in the US through very quiet training. They said nothing, there isn't a manual, there is no manual. So, you know, they either, you have to have a six sense, you have a, you need to have an innate sense of what you're doing and these very seasoned, very seasoned people walked us through everything for a year. I think it was almost, yeah, it was a year. So, but in that time, each inspector was sent, this is early on, I don't know what happens now, but each inspector was sent to train with other seasoned inspectors in France and England, Germany, Germany's a big deal and Italy and Spain, so yeah, Belgium. So, when you say train, are you cooking? Are you, you mean training because you're looking with other inspectors to see how they review a meal? Correct. So, they would, they already, so these seasoned inspectors, again, elders really respected would join you at a meal, you would join them, sorry. It's, you would join them at a meal. And by the time we got to the car driving, they already knew the decision they already had gone through the meal and they expected for you to have an answer right then and there. And, you know, it was, it was really, really arduous to, because you don't want to make mistakes, but they allowed you to make all kinds of mistakes and to make decisions that they would challenge. And I think they almost appreciated it because that's the training. You're making a decision and then they challenged the decision. So, it was, it was, it was a very fertile ground to grow and to understand and to realize what dining is versus eating that kind of thing. So, yes, that was a training. And that was for about six months or a year. Yeah, about between six months and a year. And then at some point do they say, oh, how many different types of inspectors are there? Are there different labels? Or are you just in different categories? No, no, no, no, no, everyone is an inspector. There, there isn't, there isn't hierarchy. I think if that's what you're asking me, because I've seen some more listed like he was a senior inspector, which leads you to believe then there are those that are not senior inspectors. So then what, you know, that I was trying on how to categorize the levels. That's interesting. I think we were all at the same level. I mean, we were all hired. It comes in waves, right? So it comes in waves. It's not people stay on this job for decades. Yeah, now it's, it's an amazing job. So they stay for decades. And I think we were all hired. Again, I don't know anyone else's title. I know there was no hierarchy in the inspector level. You had obviously the directors who were the ones that were training the inspectors, but they were directors. Okay, right, because I read one of the interviews that you sent me that it was someone who, she said she was an inspector, but she didn't die as much as the other inspectors, because she was the editor. So she was teaming. All the inspectors said kind of putting it together, but she didn't do as many. She did like a third of the meals that the other inspectors did. So one of the wonderful things and people don't give Michelin credit for this, but there are not a lot of women in, or at least they weren't, right? So when I came on, there were a lot of women, but the US team was mostly, was female. It was led by females. We had half the team was female. And then around the world, I think the woman that you're speaking about may be Rebecca, and she started as, yes, okay, good. She started as an inspector, and then they, so Michelin, the guide, promotes from within, which is an amazing thing. So you could be an inspector for 10 years, and then you could be trained to be a director, and then as the guide has grown to almost what, 40 countries now, I think the Philippines just announced that they're part of the 2026. So it just keeps growing. And from within, you have these inspectors that just rise up in these very arduous, very, very demanding director jobs within, but they started as inspectors. So yeah, I mean, she would not, if this is what we're talking about, she would be doing a lot more managerials decision-making. She would be a manager versus an inspector on the ground. - Okay. So then how many years did it take to be assign restaurants and dining on your own without anyone else? And how did that happen the first time you went out on your own? - So it was, I mean, I felt comfortable within a year, and I think I was able to have potential stars confirmed within a year and a half. So that's a pretty long time, but not that long. So I would say a year and a half. - And when you try again, nothing is written. There's nothing written, you have to just grow into it. When you say confirm, that means someone that you suggest when you get together with the other inspectors, they kind of confirm like, yes, this is a one star. We're going to go with a one star for this restaurant. - Well, yeah, because it's a very democratic process. I mean, one of the things that I hope your listeners understand, no one makes a decision out of the blue. There is absolutely zero of that. There's no tolerance for that at Michelin. You go in, you write a report, you submit it, it's discussed, and then someone hell, at least one other person, if not two, maybe three, has to go in and have the same conclusion. That it's a star, it's not a star, it could be two stars, it could be three stars. So very democratic, it cost a lot of money, but yeah, it was about a year and a half before I had the the confirmations that I needed for the decisions that I was making. - Okay. With such few inspectors worldwide, the last figure I read was about 130 worldwide. Do you think there are times they simply logistically don't get to all the restaurants who need an updated review? Not new ones, but the ones that need update. - So, and I will say this not as a Michelin inspector anymore, obviously, but this is what I hear. It's just too few to cover. I think Michelin is now covering almost 19,000 restaurants, and those are the ones that are listed. So 19,000 restaurants across 37 countries, continents, and so on and so forth, logistically it is a nightmare. And to confirm a star, you have to have at least two visits. So it's getting, again, this is something that Michelin has to address, but to answer your question as someone on the outside listening to what you're saying, 'cause these are not my numbers, these are numbers that they've said themselves. I would say yeah, they're stretched then. - Yeah. I read in one of the articles that the inspectors quote, "Only reveal themselves to a restaurant if they have additional questions." And only after a meal is that true, and did you ever do that? Because I have had conversations with a couple of chefs who have told me that an inspector revealed themselves, and I was very surprised by that. And then to read it, kind of confirm that. So what is your take on that? - So here's, so the Europeans, so let's just kind of like separate. So the European methodology is that you go for lunch, dinner, and then in between, and this is in the past, 'cause I don't know what they're doing today. So all of this is what I experienced during my time there. But in between the meals, they would go and visit because there's so many properties that you just wanna confirm. Are there 30 rooms in the hotel? Are there 27? Is this the person that's there? So the inspectors in Europe would announce themselves at certain properties, not when they were dining, never when they were dining or staying over. It would be, they would never do that if they were dining. But they would go and visit hotels and restaurants just to make sure that they were confirming certain data. So yes, but not in the US. We only did that I think for maybe half the year and then it just didn't make any sense because in the US, our social media was so advanced that we could not take the chance to be exposed. So we stopped that, we immediately stopped that. So we never, after six months, we said it's not a good idea. So we didn't do what the Europeans were doing and maybe the vast Asian team is doing, we didn't do that. But Europeans did, so yes, it's correct, but Europeans really did that, not us. I also read, twice a year, inspectors get together to swap notes with the guide's editor, a star meat. So it's called say on to 12. So it's the meeting of the stars and it's more than twice a year because of the vast coverage of areas now. And yes, I mean, and again, Michelin is a very democratic ideal, right? So everyone has to come and defend their positions. So let's say I found three stars, someone else find two papers are in between, we have a discussion and we're very respectful and we go through every single solitary point to defend. And then there's a decision. And the decision is, again, incredibly democratic, very professional, very conscientious. It's a lot of work, but yes, we have meetings. - Was there ever a time you were disappointed because one that you were rooting for did not make it? - Hmm. - So, you know, was I disappointed? No, 'cause there's always tomorrow. There's always tomorrow. And, you know, if a chef is talented, he or she's gonna be found out. It's just with just a little patience, that person is gonna be found out. Yes, I mean, I'm passionate, I'm Sicilian. What am I gonna do? I can't help myself. (laughs) So, but no, because the process is fair. The process is fair and I will say that even if I disagreed with the ultimate decision, it was done in a way that made sense. And, you know, there's tomorrow. - Right, you don't feel cheated or like so. - At their way or. - No, no, no, no, no, no, none of that. None of that. I never did, so no. - Okay. - What do you think of the new trend of not publishing an actual book for profit and instead having the city's pay for a guide? And also when people say it's paid to play. - So, I am a tactical person. I need my books, I need everything. I have libraries all over the place in my house and I'd love the books. But, I think it's more, there's more reference with the ability of digital media to be changed and updated and so on and so forth. One thing I wanna, correct, the books never made a profit. Absolutely never, it was a losing proposition, but it is a marketing tool for the Michelin tires. But the books never made a profit. It was a losing proposition. The, maybe the B to B would be like the business to business part would probably be something that I would love to see Michelin start up again. But the pay to play. Okay, I've always said, I've always said that if you're going to be a profit, if you're gonna have any sort of profit anywhere, you have to get some money like something, you know, and they're trying since 2017 with the digital, with all of the events that they're doing and sponsorship, so hopefully that will be fine. My concern, and there's only one concern. And again, I find that what Michelin is doing is fine, right? Because they still have the standards. As long as they adhere to the standards, I think it's fair. But here's my problem. And I don't know if there's a solution to this. What happens when, let's say Miami-Date County is paying whatever it is, let's say $3 for this service. And all of the start restaurants are going up like 30%, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Everything, wonderful, right? You have a start, you go up. What happens when the star is taken away? When you lose your star and you lose that income, are you the restaurant gonna go to the visit Miami and say, "Oh, oh, hold on, what's going on?" 'Cause I'm paying into this. So I think when everything goes up is fine. Michelin does not sell its decisions at all, absolutely not. The decisions are made independently, democratically, there's a process, no problem. But if I am a restaurant in wherever you're coming, Michelin is coming in and my income goes up by 30% because I have the star and then two years later, the star is taken away and I lose that income. Who do I go to? Do I blame Michelin? Do I blame someone else? This is a part of the conversation that I think still needs to be figured out. But I will say, unequivocally, there's no pay to play. They have to get this money 'cause it's a lot of money. You have people that are on full salaries, they need all kinds of expenses paid. Everything is paid by the company. At some point, there's got to be some money coming in. The tire company's not going to provide it for that particular sector of the business. Going back to something you said, the restaurant can go to visit Florida and say, hey, I'm paying into this, but they're not paying into it because the restaurants themselves don't play. Taxes are, taxes are being paid, like I'm just saying. Right, but that can be misunderstood. That's why I wanted to clear that part out. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm sorry, I wasn't clear. I'm just saying, like this is the discussion that is going on, right? So I, I, a business owner, I'm paying into some pool of money, some of that money is going to this wonderful institution, visit Florida, blah, blah, blah, wonderful, great. And then my restaurant, boom, you know, I have 30% more money because I have a start. Great, wonderful, I love it. And then, I don't know, whenever the stars are taken away for a million reasons, blah, blah, blah. And my business goes down, who do I talk to? Like, who do I talk to? Because I'm still paying my taxes. I'm still doing whatever. I'm still, you know, hiring, employing people, blah, blah, blah. So that's going to get a little bit messy, I think, with this new method, right? Where, visit Miami, pays Michelin to do their work independent, independent, there's no, absolutely, there's no pressure. But then what happens when things start, you know, moving around, that's my, it's okay. I mean, I think they'll figure it out. - Well, I mean, I just think it's funny that Michelin gets the, the, the, the harsher, I think criticism, when world's 50 best, and James Beardle, where everyone has sponsors, and everyone granted, the cities are not paying, them to come and judge them. But all of those companies are, are finding funds somewhere. But the only one that gets criticized is the Michelin, because they were getting it from the tourism boards, which then leads people to think that the restaurant are actually paying to be included, which is not, one thing has nothing to do with the other. - It honestly doesn't, and I mean, any business person would understand that money has to come from somewhere, right? You are, it's incredibly expensive to have. I don't care if it's 130 or 500 inspectors, it is incredibly expensive to have this kind of squadron going around the world, you know, taking flights, renting cars, like hotels, meals. It's, it's pretty intense. But the James Beard is a fully American institution, and I could see people deferring to the James Beard award, 'cause they really do cover the entire nation, and they follow these chefs from, you know, maybe a chef started at Grammacy Tavern, and is now somewhere in Seattle blah, blah, blah, like they really, I love James Beard. Whatever their, I don't know, fault lines are, neither here or there for me, because I really do think that whatever they do, they do, and they care about the institution of hospitality. 50 best, I think 50 best is amazing in the way that how do you get something that you're not gonna forget, so you can't grow. That's it, it's 50 best around the world. So you either have a new one coming in, 15 going down, blah, blah, blah, it's the 50 best. It's the closed number that makes the 50 best such an attractive award, where Michelin, and again, the two and three stars, I would give my right arm for, you know, and I understand that chefs are doing whatever they need to do, amazing work. The two and three stars, there's nothing like the two and three Michelin stars. The one stars are getting a little bit funky right now, but again, they're reflecting the new areas that Michelin is covering. The 50 best, that's it. I don't get, they have millions and millions of restaurants around the world, they will only list the 50 best. The closed number makes it valuable, that closed number. So let's say Michelin could do the same thing, could just basically say, going forward, we're only gonna have 300 top three stars all over the world, and it has to be all over the world. That would make sense. But I don't want to, because I've been on the inside for so long, I know how expensive, and how insane this whole industry is, 'cause chefs move around all the time. They're new laws and districts, and all of a sudden, you did this and you can't do that. But I don't wanna criticize, I don't wanna criticize that, unless you're absolutely out there saying yes, give me $100,000 and I will give you this. That's not what's happening. It's not what's happening. - Right, right. I just wanted to clear that part up, but it drives me crazy when people say, just a general statement, you know, the pay-to-play, I'm like, the restaurants are not paying, trust me, they're not paying for this. - Yeah, okay. - Okay, so it has said that the only thing the inspector judges is the food and not the service and decor, is that true, or does it depend on the star category being judged, say one star versus three? - So for me, for me, and I mean, I've been to places where I was treated not very nicely, given the worst seat in the house, and still, the star was confirmed, you know, 'cause it's about the food. Fully full stop, it's about the food. However, if the food is so good, then the service is going to be equally good, 'cause you have to receive the food at a certain temperature, it can't be sloppy, you know, if you're getting dessert, it can't be falling apart, so the service has to be fine. If the music is really loud and please anyone who remembers Bobo early on, the music was, it used to make my skin crawl, but it didn't matter, right? So you just close your ears, hopefully, you're not right under a speaker, but it's about the food, and all, and only about the food. Of course, if it's a three star, you cannot have slop. You can't, you can't. You have to have people that are able to answer questions that are able to introduce you to a new combination of something without intruding. It's everything, but fully understand that it's only about the food. That's how the decisions are made. Then if somebody, you know, is incredibly nasty, I mean, okay, fine. So Michelin used to have the category with the little forks and knives. That's where we would say, okay, so you have two stars, one fork and knife, you know, 'cause maybe the service wasn't really great. Do you remember, what was it? It was a chef's table of Brooklyn fair, the original place, would you ever there? Not the original one. I went three times to the second one, the second one. So to this day, that remains my biggest find. It was just amazing. The area where it was, and it was just literally him. And I think, I shouldn't say him. Chef Cesar, Cesar Ramirez. And I think he had two people. He was in the crispest white. Like he was such a general scary man, scary man. But it was a counter, no wine. That was the only, I believe it went to three stars without a wine list. And that was the only one in the world that had that. But it was only one red little knife and fork because it was just a counter. There was nothing. He just served you as he was cooking. So that's the kind of example I could give you where it had nothing to do with anything but the food. I am, I actually recently confirmed with Michelin because I always explained it that way about the fork and spoon or not. Yeah. And, but then I realized that the online version does not have them anymore. So they'd stop doing it digitally. Unless you have a book there, but they no longer do it. So I guess they're no longer talking about it. Which, that's too bad. Yeah. Because it gives you such a great idea. It gives you such a snapshot of, wow, wait, what am I getting into kind of things? So hopefully they'll bring them back. Because I think it's a great, again, visual for people to read. What is the best restaurant dinner you ever had in your life? So it wasn't work, it wasn't work. The best restaurant dinner is when I'm in a good mood in the most fantastic place, eating exactly what I want to eat. And so it isn't, they're just too many great places, but I will say that for me, eating in Italy remains just the top. Just eating in Italy, just, oh my god, it is the best. But the most memorable meal is by myself. You know, when I eat, what I want to eat, when I want to eat and I'm looking out and it could be a hamburger. Honestly, it could be a hamburger. So that's my, I'm going to stick to that one. You're not going to name a restaurant, fine. No, I have too many, I have too many. I know, it's a tough question. Have you ever been moved to tears during a meal? Always, always. When I see how hard people work, I mean, wow, leaving, you know, you have to leave your house in the morning, there's so much work, it's so physical. And, you know, if I am enjoying a dish and I see someone next to me literally just being disrespectful and, you know, especially at sushi places, like how can you do that, how can you start, like you're, he's doing this for you. How can you not put it in your mouth? He's expecting, he can't move on until you put in your, and they're chatting on their phones. So I get upset with that level of disrespect. And then I get moved to tears when a dish, when I could hear a dish, when I eat a dish and I could hear the symphony when it's like an orchestra or it's an opera, I will cry. I will cry, I will sit there and cry. That's, so yes, I've been moved to tears many times. - What, tell me, I know you mentioned this a while back to me about going to bed, losing sleep over someone getting or not getting two stars or three stars and how you like stressed over it. Stress, stress for weeks, for days, I can't sleep, and there's nothing we could do, right? I mean, I can't, I would never even dream of forcing anything, it is what it is. And a lot, you know, a lot of chefs are going through whatever they're going through. And I know, you know, when I know that this is an imminent decision that they're not aware of, and it's six months down the, like, oh my God, you know. So, I care about this industry, tremendously, care about this industry, because of all the work that they do. So, yeah, so I would lose sleep. I would lose sleep, I would walk around, you know, talk to myself, I don't know, whatever. But if you love something, you're passionate about it. - Yeah. (laughing) - I want to enjoy a meal now without pulling it apart in your head. - To be completely honest, if I am not doing it for work, or any kind of work I eat at my home. I love cooking, and I love to entertain, and so I cook at home. So, if, yes, but I can, I can. If somebody invites me, I'm not going to be a pain in the neck. And discuss the meal, we're just there to have a meal. But it's really difficult to get that out of your system after 20 plus years, right? - Of course. What are some words of advice for young chefs who dream of owning a star establishment? Don't go for the star. Find your core, find your passion. What is it that you're trying to say? Are you trying to replicate something that you ate somewhere in Switzerland or Asia, whatever it is? Like if you're doing that, remember that people that go to start restaurants by and large, travel the world. So they've seen this discussion before. So I would absolutely tell anyone who's young, what is it that you're trying to say? That's it, right? And I think, I'm not sure if we're going to go into it, but I think there was a question at some point, would you come to, I don't know, Miami or Florida? - Yeah, how that one coming up. - Well, sorry, sorry, okay, got it. Yeah, I could say just stick to your core. Stick to your core. There's something you want to say, 'cause or else you wouldn't be working 18 hours, standing on your feet, you know, doing all of this. There's something you want to say, what is it? Talk to me, talk to me, make it sing. Before I forget the your profile picture, which keeps me laughing. Is that a per se? Ah, okay, I'm like, I know that lamp. I know that lamp right behind her. What is it? And then a little while ago, I was like, it's per se, per se. Got it, got it. - When he is darn thing, I've ever seen in my life. I mean, not old again. - Even funnier would be if I do my AI picture, then we're having this discussion I can't afford it as babies, as talkers. - But, but, but, but, but, but. - Our inspectors allowed to attend ceremonies. - Allowed is a big word. We are, we select not to go. I think there may have been one, and it was in New York. And we all entered separately. We did not look at one another, but we were there among. I think it was up in Rockefeller Center. It was a really great, great ceremony, but I was so uncomfortable. Like I was so uncomfortable. And I walked in and I walked out. So I just can't, I'm like, oh my God, I want to hug you. Oh my God, I'm so happy for you. So get out, get out before you make a mess of things. - Yeah, that was my next question. Did it ever feel lonely or odd to do? So all of this work, have this knowledge and influence, then I have to sit back in the shadows as it's announced, criticized, or celebrated, and not be able to join in. - No, I mean, I feel, I think many, and I will speak for most of the inspectors. We're soldiers. We have a, you know, we have a task to perform. We're paid to perform it. And that's it. You know, yes, of course, you get, you have your favorites. You're rooting for them. And if they don't get it that year, you know, you make sure that you, how can I say, revisit and keep the conversation going. But we're soldiers. We're not generals. We're not here for us. We're here to serve the hospitality industry. - When and where did you, and when, when and why did you decide to retire? - Honestly, it's a, you know, you get to us for an age and you cannot eat that many meals. And so I am not young anymore. And I love my photo. I love my photo. But, you know, it's just, it's so taxing on the body to eat that many meals, that many calories. And we eat really well, really well. And it was just time to stop. That's it. It was just time to stop. So getting, getting healthy again, not getting to the point where, you know, I need to be. And I mean, I know you've met me. So, but it's just taxing on the body. You can't do that to your body twice a day, year round. And I did it for 20 years. And I think I did a fine job. And that was it. - And when did you decide this? - 20, early 2024. - Okay. - You had to sign an NDA once you left that position. - And the, yes, I mean, we all are. And I think by and large, we're very, very careful. I mean, again, we all, the Michelin is incredibly generous, incredibly focused. I wish nothing but the best for them and the areas that they're covering. I really do because I know how hard everyone works. So yeah, whatever they wanted me to sign, I had a, I had a good 20 year run with them. So no problem. No problem. - And how long will always be a cheerleader for them? - How long will you not allow to talk publicly at all about it? - I don't even know if there was like a number of months. I just never felt comfortable to say anything. But, but again, when people, when someone like you, which I adore, I adore your wet palette, I really, really do, I found you because you were so clear and so concise and so fair. And so you were like, no, no, no, no. Correcting, this is not the way it works. There are not many people that work like you do. I just have to tell you. So I felt comfortable speaking to you and that's it. So it's not like I didn't have a time or a year or anything. But I like your work. - You know, thank you. I know someone said recently because I had teased this interview and they said, well, how did you find this inspector? And I said, well, she actually found me. - Yeah. - I loved your work, I think you're so fair. You're so fair. You're so fair. - Thank you. Well, obviously, you're not passionate too. And I love this industry as well. - That's crazy. - That might be. - Yes. - I know you get it. - The wet palette is partnering with Airbnb to deliver an experience of pure indulgence. Michelin star dinners reimagined in our city. Hosted and curated by me, each evening will unfold at one of my personal favorite spots. Intimid, elevated and unmistakably exclusive. Curious which restaurants are first? That reveals coming soon and trust me, it will be worth the wait. Until then, join the notify list to be first in the know. Send me a DM on Instagram or send an email to info at thewetpala.com. This is not just dinner, it's a wet palette moment. - So now for the much awaited listener and viewer questions. - Yep. With them together, I regrouped after we spoke. I grouped them together because some were similar as possible to continue our flow of conversation. And some of you have partially answered. So I welcome you to answer them. I mean, you answered them for me, but I want them to listen, obviously. Number one, how do they decide which restaurants to inspect? - There is so much research. Once you get your area, which these are vast areas, you find the bloggers, you find the newspapers, yeah, you find the newspapers, you find the podcasts, you find everything you can. And the more elusive and out there they are, the more you're going to be attracted because they're following very, very small areas. But for me, also the fact that I am an anthropologist in the way I had to do my research, I had a very specific methodology to it. So I kind of applied that methodology to finding restaurants. But honestly, from the early years onto whenever I would just walk, walk, walk, walk, walk, walk, walk, every block I could. And when I would find that's again, Cesar Ramirez's place in Brooklyn, I walked by, I mean, it's not a, it wasn't, maybe now it is, it was not a fancy area. Like I had to walk by twice and say, is that a kitchen? So, but again, you're doing research, every moment that you're not doing something else, you're researching, you're researching, you're asking question and you're walking, you're driving around, you're taking notes of areas, so that's how I did it. - Yeah, to an extent, it must be easier now because of so much content online. - Right. - For some more. - Right, but you know, 90% gets lost because if you're only aggregating like that, you're not going to find the ones that are really, really, you know, the one chef that spun out on her own or his own and has like a small place, let's say on Ho Avinu in the South Bronx, no one is going to find it because no one is writing about it. But for me, I would be driving around the South Bronx and finding, you know, the Puerto Rican place that was just opened and I was finding the Dominican place and they, like, you have to have boots on the ground, you have to. If you're going to do it any other way, then you're just regurgitating what everyone else is saying. So I hope that's not going to be the case going forward. - Oh, I don't know, it's pretty right now that I'm saying, right? - I know, I know, yeah, but right now it's a case of which content creator to follow that you could trust and, you know, the cheese pull type that you cannot, you know, that kind of, you know, that's going to be a challenge. It's going to be a challenge. And again, and this does not only speak about Michelin, this is about everyone. If you're just going to regurgitate something, that someone else, that you don't even know if they're, you know, getting paid or not paid, like what are we doing? If you don't have boots on the ground, yeah, I don't know. I would feel really uncomfortable. - Do one set, question number two. Do one set of inspectors do the whole East Coast USA? How many times do they visit each city? - So, no, the answer is no. I mean, everyone has territories to follow. And they visit the city depending on how many new openings and changes and so on and so forth. So there are a lot of markers that determine on how many weeks, any one inspector or two, three inspectors, whatever, visit a certain city. Maybe at the beginning, if it's a new city, you're going to have a whole team set out there for X number of weeks, whatever, so that they could cover it completely. But there isn't anything per se, you know, like fixed. - Okay. Do you have to pay for your meals or does Michelin guide reimburse? We are set, again, I'm using the current, you know, verbiage, but everyone is employed. Everyone has a salary, everyone has a credit card, everything gets charged back to the company, everything, because it's work, as long as it's acceptable, it's work, right. - What age was the youngest inspector you ever met? - Oh, Jesu, oh, Jesu, I think, and I didn't ask. I did not ask, he gave it to me. I think he was 28, and that was in 23, so 2023, when I met him, I think he was the youngest at 28. That's very young, and I think he had been already working at, I don't know, more than a dozen places, I was like, wow, you're a very busy young man, (laughs) so that's the youngest person I know. But, you know, very, very confident person. - Right, how many restaurants do you eat at a year, or did you eat at in one year? - Uh, that are on 350? - Yeah, the average was 350, which is way too many, yeah. - A lot. - What happens if you suspect you have been spotted by the staff? - Nothing, I do nothing, I don't change anything, I don't care. If I'm spotted, I'm spotted, but I would have no idea, unless they start breaking dishes all over the place, and you know, whatever, but no, I do absolutely nothing. - What really sets a three-star restaurant apart from a two, and does maintaining a two-for-a-while matter to get a three? - That's an interesting question, because, oh, I mean, over the history of the guide, I don't remember a two-star for almost 14 years, becoming a three, and very, very happy for Junk Sick, but that was sort of like, hmm, interesting, 'cause I don't know if they changed, chef, maybe they did, like I haven't followed, but absolute consistency, absolute consistency, where I remember every crumb, I remember every noise, I remember everything that happened at that meal, that was a three-star. The two-star, I am picking it apart, still. I'm picking it apart. So it's, it's an interesting place, but it's consistency. There's absolutely no error. Again, the three stars that I either proposed or was lucky enough to eat at, they were just perfect. There was, for me, no error. One of the interviews I listened to of another former inspector, he talked about sauces. And he said, and he said that the sauce of the three would be multi-layered, they would have, even like an aftertaste, there was so much going on, and where a two would not be that way. - Correct, so, but this is gonna be interesting because as the guide moves into further and further, into Asia, the sauce thing is a very, very Eurocentric measure. Like, you have to have those sauces, which is French. You know, that's really sort of, okay, so I see you. And you should see me right now. I'm like, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I don't know how that is going to continue to be applied if you're gonna move away from the Eurocentric measures. But up until now, the sauce thing is, that tells you all you need to know about a chef and how she or he controls for everything, everything, 'cause if the sauce is perfect, you know there's control in the kitchen. - Right, I'm being on sauce with two, and it's usually a perfectly taste. Like, I'm going in for the sauce first before I even try the dish. - Some of these questions are gonna need a little translation as far as local angles. - Okay. - Says, "Hat the time, they have been open for less than five years, and the chef isn't even present." This one, what they mean is, what we talked about before, where a chef opens a restaurant and then another one, and then another one, and then another one, and then he's not even at the place, and then they get a star. - So, okay. So, Danielle Boulude does it well. Joel Rubachon did it really well. There are ways for a very serious chef to open multiple outlets, and for those outlets to really carry out the vision and the tradition of a two star, a three star star, the U.S. is a little bit different. It's just a little bit, we have a different set of standards, things that happen in Europe over 15 years in the U.S. happen in a year. So, you have constant changes. We have rules and regulations, we have enormous mortgages. Most of these places, if there's a chef, the chef is just there doing some consulting, the ownership is somewhere else. So, it's a really difficult question for me to address, because I could see how it works, and it has worked in Europe. Absolutely fine. It works in Asia. There's something about the U.S. that I understand why people say, why are we giving these stars that they're not there? But again, this is where, if you're local, you write into your visit Miami. You write into Michelin. You write into the actual restaurant and say, I've been there three times, I've never seen you, how can this be working? And you have to have, you have to be an advocate. You have to be an advocate for what you believe. And I'm answering the question for your listener. You got to be an advocate, you got to be more vocal. So that's my, there are ways to make this work, and then there are ways of people just sort of taking the 20% and moving on and just keep opening up different places. But sometimes they work. I know you had answered that in another, one of the questions that is coming up, but when you say contact and be an advocate, you're saying that if someone writes the Michelin guide at whatever, I don't even know what email address they're serving. Okay, so to advocate for, hey, this restaurant, keeps getting skipped year after year, they need to be looked at. You're saying that will be passed down to one, so that it could be addressed. Right, so on the digital front, Michelin has invested a lot of money, and there will be someone. So there, and I will give you these email addresses, which you could share with your listeners after, 'cause I don't have them written down right now. But you need to be an advocate. So Michelin has a presence on IG, has a presence on X, has emails galore. Like there are at least three that I will share with you. Just write to them and write to the restaurant, write to the restaurant. They want to hear from you. Where are you? Been there three times, I've never seen the chef. How can you have a counter that basically is given a start just because you're there and you're never there? I'm not going to pay this money. I don't want to pay this money, I'll go somewhere else. I'll go find the little, you know, daverna or the Osteria or the little, you know, around the corner, which makes better food or something like that. So there is a level of, how can I say, responsibility that we as consumers have as well? - I like that. For example, James Beard has the opening period, they encourage the public to write in their nomination. And then it starts there. And I don't, I tried, I was trying to advocate for that this year, I'm like, you want your candidate on and then write a vote for them, you know? And then, you know, they could take it from there, they could ignore it or they could, you know, take it to the next level, but I like that part. So this is a version of that without it being officially Michelin saying, hey, let us know what you want, you know? - Right, because we never, gourmet is no longer around. You know, bon appetit is whatever. Food and like, these are no longer the stalwarts of how we get information. Most of the newspapers are just completely gutted. Like, me, on the ground, as a consumer, have more responsibility now than ever. I have more responsibility than ever, especially as the world is shifting. And there's no one, there's no one speaking about these. But how do I know, how do I know? But I know my local place, I know that chef, I know that that chef has been blah, blah, blah. So I'm gonna ride in. That's the way. - You can also follow the web palette. - Yes, of course, oh my God, of course, oh my God, you have a basic content. - Thank you, thank you. - But you know what I'm saying? It's the ground that are doing all the work now. - Yeah, yeah. Has the guide lost some credibility the way they're currently awarding stars? So one of the big criticism is, they're just handing out stars left and right, which I've addressed on the podcast, which is, it sounds that way because they keep adding cities, but if you look at it, they might add a city and not award them anything, you know, other than recommended. So, what do you think? - So here's, and I think I answered it this way. So, as the Michelin God moves into territories that are not necessarily continental and European. - Like Texas barbecue, you mentioned. - Yeah, and I mean, I don't know, I mean six stars, for, you know, give me one church, that's it. I just want, when I say church, I mean one star for barbecue, that would, that would have been the most amazing thing to find that one barbecue place to basically then hang your hat on. But fine, listen, Texas is Texas. I don't mess with Texas, I don't. But I think the new stars reflect that the world is moving away from Europe, right? So, the world is moving away. We have never had the level of discussion. When I say, we, I'm talking about the world and I'm talking about the last 20 years, we have never had this level of discussion about ramen or, you know, high knees chicken or some other component, some other traditional food of a place and people. And if Michelin, and I think it's smart for Michelin to do this, if Michelin wants to grow and be relevant with especially younger and younger people, you're gonna have to go to them. You know, you have to go to them, no question. My concern, which I, again, I was concerned when I saw this and I know that 90% of the people that are listening to this are still scratching the head over is Danielle, how could Danielle have been demoted to one and Naka to one? Like, that's not, we're not having the same conversation. So, Michelin's gonna have to figure that part out. And again, please, I don't know what they found. They must have found something that was so, you know, incredibly wrong for them to make that decision. So, I wanna, I am not questioning them, but most people that are going to look at this, are going to say, I'm sorry, what we have a tacos stand. And Danielle, at the same level, this doesn't make any sense. Right. So, and I agree with them, but I don't know what Michelin found. But again, this is where people like you that have a major platform has to basically go and ask, okay, what are you doing right now, Michelin? What are you doing? Because it's for, this is for them. They're not going to get, they're gonna get a lot of more questions and answers if they continue doing stuff like that. Because people just don't understand where they're moving into. Sometimes I wonder, you're gonna say no, but sometimes I wonder if they're doing it on purpose. So, everyone gets mad and keeps talking about it. Yeah, I mean, well, again, you know, I worked for television for 14 years. So, I know that there is a reason, there is a, there's a value to all of this. So, you're better off being spoken about, no matter if it's positive or negative. But where's that gonna take you? I mean, you know, the chefs at Danielle, I'm just, again, police, I don't know any of them. They must be scratching their heads saying, "What?" Just like, "What?" "Bend." You know, and that's, that's a big team. That's a huge team. I read somewhere also that he said, - Ooh. - Danielle. - Oh, sorry. - He talked that he said that a lot, and you could probably confirm this, that a lot of chefs, some three Michelin star restaurants, their chefs find that once they get the three, then they're scared to kind of change the formula because this is what worked. And Danielle said in an interview that he does change as many a lot and that he evolves his menu. He doesn't keep the same formula that might have worked this year and that year and the other year that perhaps the inspectors didn't feel that the consistency was there because he kept changing and evolving the menu versus the say going to, per se or French laundry and getting the same opening dish and the same this and the same that, which that formula works. So they've kept it. So he said that perhaps he thought it was something like that. I mean, again, I don't know what prompted that downgrade I mean, during my 20 years working for Michelin, I probably went to Danielle at least 20 times, if not more. That was never an issue. We knew his formula, it wasn't formula. That's what I'm trying to, it wasn't a formula. There were three openings and they were sort of like a, how can I say it? One ingredient formulated three ways, we knew, that was his signature, right? So he would take one ingredient and just kind of manifest it in different ways. So something else must have happened. I don't know what happened. I honestly don't, but I will say one thing. A lot of the younger three star chefs feel trapped. And this is not me saying it, this is me reading them and saying we're terrified to make any changes and we stop growing, we just stop growing. Which is really sad, which is really sad. So we'll see what happens. But I've heard what you, what it's, what you just said, I've heard it because I've read it from some of the younger chefs that just feel trapped with the three stars. Should be. - The Miami question, I love it. I love an omakasa, but what I traveled to Miami for one and we spoke about this a little bit. - So here's, this is what I wanna say. If you're a chef, if you're a real chef and you have it in you to be creative, be creative with what's close by. Omakasa doesn't mean anything anymore. It doesn't, it's just a set of dishes, rice, maybe fish. I would say if you want, I mean, you have some of the greatest fish. Yes, it's challenging, it's challenging. But you could do a tiradito, you could do a ceviche, you could do, and make it a omakasa, who cares? What, you call it, it doesn't really matter. So you do a progression of local fish. Reflecting, you can, you can. But it will be as good though, as the important Japanese will be better because the fish, the fish will be fresh. And it will be a chance for a chef to declare independence from some other ideal to basically create something that reflects that person and the place where they are. Because this is where we're moving. We're moving to more local and local. And I would love to see a chef use local fish. Just use the local fish. There's plenty of it, plenty of it. And use it in ways that reflect Florida. With all its beautiful flags and everything you could imagine. You could start from, you know, chile, Venezuela, Argentina, like you could go anywhere, Caribbean and put those flavors in. It's a, the chef has to have this vision and use local fish and then I'll come down and have the omakase Yeah, I think, I think this person was trying to go reference a Japanese omakase versus what everybody just calls a chef's tasty menu. Now it's just omakase. Right, but again, we have lost track of what that means because there's so, we've lost track of what it means. Like, everybody just throws the word around. Everyone throws around that word, kaisaki, you know, prefix, I don't know if you're giving me four choices, it's not prefix, I'm sorry, it's not. It's just what you want to control the first part of the menu and then just make sure that I have one of the three or four proteins that you want. Okay, so we're very loose with these words, with these titles. Someone else says, why is the recommended list better than the winners? And by the way, I mean the selections versus the, they call it different things, they call it recommended, they call it addition, they call it, I don't even know what the third one is on their website, they have felt different things before it to as a plate. So here in the United, I mean, at least in Florida, they don't do plate, but then they talk about the addition, but then they're also recommended. So anyway, they probably mean, why are these restaurants better than the selections? - So everyone has to, and I know you've said this a million times, so I'd love you for it. Michelin is a selection. It's not a listing, it's a selection. So if you land on the Michelin site, even if you don't have a star or a bib gourmand, you have been selected by the Michelin inspectors to be on in the guide. That's a huge to-do, that's why I don't want to have another 20 course meal. So I go on the Michelin website and I say, okay, what's close by, I look at the menu, wow, okay, great, I could have a salad, I could do this. Oh my God, the dessert looks, oh, there's a new pastry shop. Boom, I go to the plate, I go to that one listed place that doesn't have a star, doesn't have a bib gourmand. I know what I'm getting, I know how to deal with it, but Michelin is a selection. So anything that lands on the Michelin site, you have been selected, someone has been there, an inspector has been there, has decided that the food is good enough, really good enough for it to be added to the guide. - Yeah, I think this person just was probably coming from like a more casual versus fine dining aspect. - Not all, but not all of fine dining. - You know, I know, okay, I'm just saying, reading a question that's, I'm knowing that's from Miami, that's how I kind of, okay, I know it. - Okay, did you ever supplement your inspector job with another job? - Never, I had weighed, first of all, they're incredibly generous, they pay our salary. We had tires, windshield wipers, we had everything we needed. No, they're just too generous. And first of all, I didn't have any time. What time did I have? I was like, you know, if I slept, I was lucky. So no, the answer is-- - The one's a doozy. Um, how does a well-known chef who has pioneered having their own farm not get a green star not? And after all, oh my god, I tell you this one because we have a chef named Neven Patel who has a farm and he's been doing it before anyone else and he has been leading the way and then he keeps getting ignored. - Okay, so this question refers to. - So I don't, I honestly think that Michelin is gonna have to really rethink its approach on how they're giving out the green stars. So if you want, I mean, this isn't, this is a whole nother like episode all on its own because I have a lot of ID. I have a lot of strong feelings about what they're doing. The fact that Vancouver, Vancouver, the greenest city, literally the greenest city in all of North America, you know, the US and Canada, does not have a green star restaurant to me is very confusing. I mean, they capture the rain water. They have, they have like little plots like public land where people, like it is the greenest city period. So and the other thing is you're going to, so in urban centers, you're going to have a lot of minorities that don't have access to a farm upstate and so on, but yet they're trying to do the green that blah, blah, blah. Are they gonna get, look, over? And so this person, first of all, I would say to all your listeners, advocate for that person by going to Michelin and say, thank you. Advocate for that person and saying, hold it, you're missing something here. Because they're not getting this right, that's it. That's the only thing I'm going to say that is a little bit negative, they're not getting this right. The fact that Vancouver does not have a Green Start award, I think it's a little confusing. And I know there's one chef in Harlem here that I know is completely green, completely green does not have a green star. Why? Why? Like how can you pass on this? The person is literally pickling and making his own vinegars and like he doesn't throw anything out, complete zero waste, zero waste. How can you not look at that person for a green star? That's what the green star is supposed to do. So to your listener, to the person who wrote that, advocate for this person to at least be considered for the green star. And I don't know, here's the thing. Are they ever going to take any green stars away? I mean, yeah, that's gonna be like insane. They're gonna take green stars away. So once you get the green star, you could start throwing out, you know, I don't know, whatever you're doing. Now, you've kind of turned blue. So now you're not green anymore. Oh, Lord, I know. I was watching some of those videos on that YouTube channel. So you saw that. Yeah. Oh my gosh. I have to go back and watch the rest, but oh my god, they just have another one now. Lord, they're not fans. Yes, that's the one I saw. So it's kind of working with Michelin. Oh my god. And one of the chefs who actually got it says, I don't know why I got it. Like, I feel like they just, and I quote, slapped on a star for relevance. I saw that. That was insane. I was like, what are they doing? Right. And then it comes down to them saying, there's no metrics, there's no real. They're not really being very transparent about what that means. Other than we're, you know, let's be green. Let's be up with the times. Everyone wants to be sustainable. So it's a great little phrase to add and let's be relevant. You know, so I hope not. I hope that they're going to correct it. I honestly do because it is a big deal because a place like Blue Hill at Stone Barnes, he'd been less, like, you know, I'm in the Bronx. So this is what I mean, he chef Barbara makes. Yeah. Now out of bones. So everything is self-contained, right? So that's a real green star. That's should be the model. And everyone should come as close as possible to that. I'm not talking about a farm, but the ethos, right? Exactly. So this is what we're doing. We're not throwing anything away. I don't care if it scraps. They're going to go in some sort of vinegar. We're going to make fermented, we're going to ferment it. We don't have, we don't throw away any glass, blah, blah, blah. Or anything that breaks, we're going to give to the local school. So the kids could make art from it. Like, that is sustainability. That is sustainability. And if they don't get it right, I don't know how they're going to be able to grow. And I really do like the idea of a green star, but I just hope the Michelin gets this right. Yeah. OK, we touched about this one a little bit on this one. Does Michelin view US standards different from European when awarding stars? I know the official stance is no. But the results say otherwise, right? So to confirm stars, it's across pollination. So you have people coming in from Asia, from Europe, blah, blah, to do tornadoes, we call them tornadoes. And so the standards are supposed to be absolutely equal. When I was there, they were equal as far as I'm concerned. So I think what we're struggling with is, let's say, the tacos or the-- Down the one star versus the barbecue one star. Right, right. So that I cannot-- I cannot speak about because I was not part of that at all. But the one star, the bib hormone, when I chose-- when I found them and then they were confirmed, it was at the same level, whether it was in Europe or Asia. It was the same level. Again, these are mine. I don't know what's happening. But again, everyone has questions. And I am listening to the same questions. People scratching their heads. And I think the breaking point was Danielle. I think the breaking point was Danielle. And Naka, the first year, Danielle, the second year, I think that broke a lot of people. And people were like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, what's happening. Yeah, there were a couple questions. The next one was, do Miami inspectors have the same guidelines as those in New York and Europe? And the other one was, what is really taken into consideration for Michelin Awards in Florida? No change. Everything is the same. Honestly, they work really hard. They're amazing. There's no change. There's no difference in how the awards are approached. No difference, OK? What is really taken into, no, I forgot that. When an establishment has been demoted, can they ask the guy for feedback? The answer is yes. The answer is yes. You have every right to ask, OK, I want to get on the phone with whatever the director. So that I could figure out what happened, what I could correct, because it should be a process of correction. So the answer is yes, they can. And I will give you all that information, and then you can put it on the transcript. Yeah. I appreciate that. Yes, of course. Is Jonathan Gano affiliated with Michelin in some way, shape, or form? I didn't even know who he was. I was like, who's Jonathan? Oh, I don't know. No. As far as I know, no. OK. Sorry. All right, all right. I don't know who he is. I'm kidding, I'm kidding. Why are half the restaurants given stars? Why are half the restaurants that are given stars on my coffee spots? Does this get an automatic bump from inspectors? No, nothing is automatic. And I don't understand. Because again, we've had this conversation about Omakase. Doesn't mean anything anymore. I will give you an example. I'm going to give you an example, because I think this is really interesting for you listeners. This is not-- I'm not saying it's the best Omakase, but it was the most informative Omakase I've ever had. And it wasn't really Omakase. It was like more of a kiseki. So it's called Hayato. The chef is Brendan Ho. H-O is his last name. And it's just an impossible counter to get into. But anyway, I was there. And the chef gave the guests pieces of fish-- all premium fish, of course, from Japan. But some of the fish, same family, same, let's say, doversol, whatever it was. But one was completely wild and fished. And the other one was wild, but in front. So you know how? OK. And he didn't tell anyone anything. He would just put the pieces in front of you, and you ate it, your delicious, amazing. And then you would have the same family fish. But it was so-- it was wild. And you ate it, and your eyeballs start popping out. Because you cannot believe that this is the same fish that you just had. So how many Americans really know how to determine what they're eating? It could be any fish. So unless you really know how to tell the difference, between why are you spending all this money on Omakase? That's my separate complaint. They're literally-- there's so many Omakase counters opening up that it's almost impossible to ignore. So I would say that there's so many more Omakase counters being opened than, let's say-- I don't know-- a French brasserie or something. Maybe that's the reason. Other than that, I have no idea. But anyone who spends a lot of money, please know your fish. Know what they're supposed to taste like. Remember that there's a season. There are big fish, little fish, some are fatty or some are less fatty, some are more iodine, some have more minerality. Then how are they-- what do you call it? Not seasoned age, but there's so many things. And we just go in blindly. Omakase-- I'm not talking about Michelin. I'm saying we as consumers. We go in, yeah. And we spend $600. And we're like, oh, we have 15 pieces of fish, great. Right. And then there's Miami fish. Let's get him in. I am not getting pleased. I wish someone is going to do that. Even like just explore it once a week and see what happens. Yeah. OK, so the next one, I think it's like 10 questions. Oh, Lord. No, no, no, I mean, because it was the same topic. And I think you know what I'm talking about. Travel guide, some locations on the guide feel like tourist traps, El Cielo. Who's responsible for Los Felix getting a star? Why is Los Felix still there in Cielo? Really? Why is Cielo Miami? Nobody can even remember that El Cielo is still open. How did that get a star? And so on, and so on, and so on. And we've talked about this one, and we don't necessarily agree with this one. But-- Yeah, look, El Cielo is a unique spot, period. It's a very unique spot, very good product. Again, when I was there, it's a very different discourse-- a discourse that you can't really find in other locations. So very Colombian, the bread, the whole artistry, the interaction. I never want to touch chocolate again, if I don't have to. But it was a very unique, very well done meal. I've only been at El Cielo once, maybe, that's it. And I was in Miami. It was a good, yeah, it was good. Would I go back? I'm not really sure. I love the area. I love what he's doing for Colombia. I really do. I think he's an ambassador for Colombia, very, very much out there. I guess people, I mean, the inspectors must be going back and confirming the start. That's all I could say. I mean, that's all I could say. They are going back to Los Felix. And I think Los Felix also has a green star or something. Like, OK, I see your dimple. I see your dimple. Oh my god. I know the floor. You have the floor. I've talked about one thing now. Los Felix, my god, that has, that's kind of like, hold on. That's like one of those, something under your nail. When you have like a splinter under your nail, it's making you nuts. It's making you nuts. But I don't know because I go, I do my thing. And then you have all of the other people confirming it. So I'm sure that they've been back. I'm sure that they have written about it that they've changed the text. I don't know. I have no answers for you. The 10 questions, I don't. Yes, they finally did change the text. Maybe because I couldn't even about it. Like the description has been the same for two years. So you haven't gone back. That's not a good sign, though. That's not a good sign because with every visit, with every visit, they have to change it. So if this is something for your listeners, if the text does not change, I don't care if it's a comma. Like take a snapshot, if it does not change, that means there's no visit. I mean, there's no visit, right? So yeah. And we're talking about the description, by the way, on the website. And the original description, when they've got the first star referred to about the first couple of months, because by the time even I went, the stuff that was written on the, that they had written on the description was not even, there was like a vegan cake or something. I don't remember chocolate, but how it was. And I'm thinking, that's not even on the menu. For me, don't even tell. So they have to, I mean, Michelin then should be updating this stuff. Yeah. Yeah. So that's like, but clearly, I'm not the only one in Miami who feels that way. I sense it. I don't know what to say. All I could tell you is that they have to go back. They do go back. And they have to make the decision, right, to maintain the star or not. So that's a team they're doing it. This is what they do. So I don't have an answer, because I know how they work. And they have to come to this decision to award at the star again and again and again. And they're making great decisions for the most part. Your listeners don't agree. OK, I understand that. Sorry. Why are John't an almost three and two stars respectively? So I've been to John't, and I adore it. This is the one in DC. I have not been to the Miami place. So I have no idea. Orlando, it's a me-- Sorry, sorry. No, no, it's OK. It's amazing. Yeah. So I'm happy for him. He's such a young guy. And I wish him all the best. Yeah, we don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know, honestly. Next, I have to try Soracara, which is the one that did get a two star in Orlando. So let's see how that works. Oh, that's the guy from Arrow. And right. That's amazing. He didn't get anything when he was here in New York, and I love that place. I love that county. It was on Grand Street. Such-- And I think it was on Grand Street. Yeah, it was a-- OK, it was in Soho, West Soho, near Sixth Avenue. And he got, OK, good for him. Good for him. He got the two stars in Orlando, which I was like, OK. But yeah, I loved Arrow here in New York. I loved it, loved it, loved it. And he was always there. He was working 28 hours a day if he could. That was his baby. OK. Yeah, I don't know the story there. I would like to find out the story. But you should speak to him. He's such a young and a guy. OK, good, good. Good. OK, would you-- would they ever consider releasing a list of all the restaurants they've inspected? That's a question for the legal team to-- I don't know what the value would be. But again, the listener must have a reason to ask that question. But I'm sure that the legal team in Greenville, South Carolina, would be able to answer that question. Because the headquarters are-- headquarters, the legal team is in Greenville. Yeah, South Carolina. I think maybe restaurants-- I mean, I suppose I can reach out and find out. I know there were some in Fort Lauderdale that were wondering did Michelin even come to my restaurant. Oh, you know? That's a good question. Yeah, you know what? Yeah, I mean, yeah, I think that as a restaurant tour or someone who's a fan of the Michelin God, sure, go ahead. I mean, I will send you the information and then, you know, writing to them is not-- I think it's your duty. Like, you know, this is my state. I want to see more-- I want to have more information. I want to see where else I should go, whatever it is. But yes, there should be a way-- I don't know if they're going to release the places that they didn't retain. I don't think that they would-- that would not be beneficial to anyone. I'm sorry, I should say beneficial to Michelin or the-- We had a couple of these. How does one become a Michelin inspector? How do we become an inspector? Well, again, you have to go on the Michelin website on the jobs postings and see and just get on an alert and see when they have openings. For me, it was kind of like a sideways. I made a left, made a right, went straight. Like, I went all over the place. And then I went through training and was hired. I saw the last time it was a couple of years ago. They posted it on LinkedIn. So just follow the Michelin-- Exactly. --and I still get alerts from them. Many times they'll say, like, the Michelin guide has added 10 new jobs. Usually it's for South Carolina. But sometimes it's something to do with the Michelin guide. OK, OK. Yeah, please. Go ahead and you should follow. You should have alerts from them. They're openings all the time. A different-- different divisions. Yeah. The last twice I was Bangkok and in France, they need it. I forgot what they need it. France is not a bad place to be, I think. Not a bad place at all. How much politics are involved in this process other than food quality? None. Food quality is the only thing. Again, I'm speaking of me. Politics-- I mean, unless a chef has been found with a knife over the person that he or she-- like, that would be OK. But otherwise, no, there are no politics. Again, for me. And we went through the Me Too. And we went through all of that. And it did not really-- because remember, the stars for the restaurant, not the chef. So the restaurant continues. The chef is out the door. Fine, goodbye. Do your thing. It's about the restaurant. So that is a great point. You're not walking in saying, I need to see everyone's records. Yeah. And again, it wouldn't be fair, because a lot of chefs, first of all, this is a very unique environment. We know that working back up the house or front of house, it is tense. It's physical. You have to deal with a lot of people that have a lot of requests from you. OK, no problem. And a lot of people have issues that are working in this industry. Unless you are found guilty by a jury, we should not be anywhere near any accusations. Again, unless you go through trial, and then you're found guilty. At that point, then, you're probably your career is completely done. But it's not about the chef. That's it. So the restaurant changes chefs. Does whatever they need to do, cleans up, and moves on. So no politics, none. And my favorite question. I think you answered a little bit a little while ago. Do you get discount on tires? Yes. Yes. Every few years, we used to get free tires. Like, just send us the bill. And blah, blah, blah. There you go. Michelin is an incredibly generous company. Full stop. Generous company. It's a great company. I loved my tongue there. I really did. So that's that's that. All right. What is next for you? Honestly, I am-- I want to eat less. We're not more eat less. Work out, yeah, if my knee starts working again. Yeah, so what's next for me? I'll figure it out. When it comes to me, it comes to me. I'm not making lots of plans. I would love to spend half the year. My daughter lives in Italy, so I would love to spend half the year there with her. We'll see. We'll see. We'll see what happens. Is there anything I have not covered that you want the listeners and viewers to know? No. I think this was incredibly thorough. This is my one and only interview. And I would only give it to you, because I really do. I really do. No, I really do. I respect your content. So no. And if you're listeners, viewers have any other questions, please send it to that cute little chubby girl. [LAUGHS] What? [LAUGHS] Why do you need so much money? Thank you, Pete, for joining me today. I'm looking forward to sharing your words and insight until next time, friends. Remember to keep your forks fancy, your palette's wet, and your wine glass bowl. Ciao. Ciao, ciao, Bella. Ciao, ciao, adobo.