The Secret Lives of Wine Influencers featuring Warner @confidenceuncorked

(upbeat music) - Well, hello and welcome to The Wine Access unfiltered podcast. You know, when I was growing up, we didn't have social media. I mean, how we didn't even have cell phones, let alone cell phones with the internet. And I distinctly remember one Christmas getting the internet as a gift, yeah. Merry Christmas kids, we have AOL. So becoming a wine influencer, like as a little girl, that being a dream was not really a thing. And even 10 years ago when I first started doing what I'm doing now, you know, running around NEP Valley with the camera, going to different wineries, trying to beg them to let me into film. I could not have imagined the impact that wine influencing would have on the world today. And I definitely could not have dreamed that it would be, I guess that my full time job. But today in 2025, wine influencers are very much a part of the wine landscape, helping consumers not only to navigate the world of wine for themselves, but also to pull back a curtain on a traditionally very closed, very private industries. So today, we are turning tables a little bit on our own industry to pull back the curtain on wine influencers. We are doing that in tandem, continuing with our theme of how to be a savvy wine buyer. We're going to be diving into content creators, how they find source, discover new wines, what tips they have for their audience, when it comes to finding great wine and to help me. I've invited my friends and fellow full time wine influencer, Warner, the sob free, Somalia from confidence and core, to his amazing fantastic and devoted following for her approachable tips and guides to affordable wine buys. I'm very excited to have you on the show, Warner, welcome. - Thank you so much. I am so excited to be here. - Yes, I love that we finally got to meet in person. Was it last year? - Yes. - About this time. - Yeah, when you came back out to Snow County, so wonderful to meet you in person, get to know you, learn from you, you're such a wealth of knowledge. And I'm so glad it's kicked off this friendship. - Yes, same. And you are now a full time wine influencer. Am I in a good shape? - Yeah, congratulations. - Thank you. - How do you feel? - It was a long time coming. And still grappling with the term, like full time influencer, you know? I'm sure you feel the same way about that too, 'cause we are so multi-passionate and just many things, but it's been the best thing ever. I am so grateful. - I was gonna ask you about that. Do you feel comfortable with the term influencer, a wine influencer, or is it something that still feels cringe? - I still feel weird about it. It's like, yes, on one hand, we are influencers, but I'm also a wine professional. I'm an educator and consulting and stuff. But if you want, like, if people say that to me and they're like, "How's the influencer thing going?" I'm like, "That's great." Like, not gonna crack them, but yeah. How do you feel about it? - I feel the same. It's funny, as you were saying that, I was like, I, in my mind, I'm comfortable with it or at least I'm forcing myself to be comfortable with it. Like, if I say it enough times, maybe it'll be comfortable, but when someone asks me the other day, how should I credit you? At no point did I say wine influencer. Like, I think I said seven other things. - Right. - Yeah. - We're applicable. So, I mean, I guess I'm less comfortable than I thought. But, you know, it's funny, because I think this idea of being a wine influencer is not a new thing. It's just a wine influencer vis-a-vis social media, it's a new thing, but wine influencers have been around for a long time. I mean, you could consider like Robert Parker, a wine influencer, Jensen Robinson, even like some of the wine importers, like Kermit Lynch is a great example of a wine influencer. So, it's not a new idea in the wine world. - Exactly, exactly. It's just utilizing more of like that social media presence of it, yeah. - Exactly. - I'm excited to peel back the curtain a little bit more. I know you have such great tips and tricks. I remember one of your first videos that went viral was the one about not putting the cork back in the bottle. - The Mason jar, yeah. - Yes, the Mason jar. Remind me, remind everyone who was not seeing that video. It's got millions and millions of people. - Yeah. - You have a scene where you've been living in Iraq, but remind me about that video. - So, basically, it's just a matter of, if you haven't even left over wine, you know, instead of putting the cork back on, there's still oxygen in it. You just put it in a vessel that lowers the ratio of oxygen to wine. So, it can be any kind of vessel. I typically just use a Mason jar. It's like something that most people have on hand, but that's about it. And it's, it just, people loved it, but people also hated it. And I think that's-- - Really? - One of the reasons why it went viral, one, because in the video, I like pour my wine in a glass into the Mason jar just as an example. And they were like, oh my god, just drink the glass. Why would you just say of a glass? And I was like, whoa, people calm down. - All right, well, I want to switch gears and talk about what's going on in the wine world. So, in the show, we always talk about current events and what's going on. And one thing that I really have been sort of avoiding talking about because it's, honestly, it's just kind of an annoying subject, but it is one that's very much in, I was like, I swear, now. And that is this idea of drinking or rather not drinking. This idea that people are drinking less than they were, we are obviously, it's January right now that we're recording in this episode with Aaron. So some people are doing dry January or even damn January. And people are sort of reconsidering how much alcohol they're consuming. And I think that's never a bad thing, right? Like we work in this industry that can lead in directions that are not always the best for us. So I think it's always good to take a step back, make sure we're in control of our bodies. But what I want to talk about is the fact that there is a lot of conflicting information that is coming out right now, specifically with this one committee, the interagency coordinating committee on the prevention of underage drinking, which is concluded that alcohol consumption even at quote unquote low levels is associated with the higher risk of death. And so now there's sort of been this push to include warning labels and alcohol that might resemble the warning on tobacco products. But what's not being talked about quite as much that Esther Mobile from the San Francisco Chronicle just pointed out is the fact that this is one of two reports that will inform the 2025 revision of the US dietary guidelines. This is a document that can strongly influence Americans eating and drinking habits and the other report that was published in December by the National Academies of Sciences, Engineering and Medicine found that moderate drinkers have a lower risk of death than non-drickers. They also concluded that moderate drinking is linked to lower rates of cardiovascular disease and with the higher risk of breast cancer, but not other cancers. So in addition to the fact that I have not wanted to talk about this entire thing, the other thing is like there's so much conflicting information out there. It's still to me being disseminated and understood. Obviously I'm gonna have very little to do with what changes go into effect if any, but my question to you because you are a fellow wine influencer, you are on the front lines of the internet talking directly with people who potentially are drinking or maybe not drinking. I'm curious, are you finding less people are drinking? - I think we're hearing about it a lot more and I think people are being a lot more vocal about drinking less. I think it depends on where you're looking. I think in the US, especially we're seeing a shift towards moderation, which I completely agree with you. I think it is so healthy and so important, but in international countries abroad, wine is so ingrained, alcohol is just so ingrained and I feel like, I don't know if it's just my opinion, I feel like it is typically, there's a lot more moderation just within the society there. You start drinking at a younger age. It's not like this crazy thing. Once you finally turn 21, it's just part of everybody's life. - Yeah. - And so we're hearing a lot more about people drinking less. NA brands are on the rise and I think it's important that wineries, companies, alcoholic brands are listening to this and listening to what consumers want. But yeah, it's kind of confusing too. There's so much information out there. So confused. Yeah, I love seeing more brands not only emerge in the NA space, but also some of the already established wineries who are making alcoholic wines are making alternatives to that in the NA space. And I also think there is a push for quantity, excuse me, quality over quantity. I think people are less excited about drinking shitty wines or just drinking to drink and they're being a lot more conscious about their choices and about their spending habits. When it comes to those choices, so I think it stands to reason that there has been a decline in some of these lesser expensive wines and I think it stands to reason that, you know, at least on my end, what I'm seeing on Sambivane is like, people are still very okay with spending $30 on a bottle of wine. That feels like a comfortable place. And I think if you look at the national average, that's significantly above what people have been traditionally spending over the last few decades. So I don't know. I think you're right though. I think people are more vocal about it. I think because of social media, there is a platform for this, you know, cohort of people to speak. But whether or not this is going to be a major change in our landscape, I'm not so sure. Anyway, we're going to drink regardless. And mom and I know that it's quite early for you, but we'll cheer as I remind everyone, cheers to you. We got a little burrito. Oh, we both have our gay rule buses. Yeah, I will remind everyone that if you are drinking, which I assume just don't drink you are, but maybe not. And you want to join us in the drinking of things like burrito. This is your moment to join the Wine Access Unfiltered Podcast Wine Club. It's four wines about every other month or so. I select them. all. different. They're from all over the world and they always correspond with an episode of the podcast. So we'll be talking about it in the show and then we also do separate tasting videos if you really want to deep dive into what's going in my glass. So if you haven't joined us already in that endeavor, you can find everything you need in the description below. And with that, I will say let's jump into the mid little meat potato section of this show. Shall we? Barolo for breakfast or for lunch because I'm on the east coast right now. We've got the 2020 colinas and ponziro for sate burillo. Say that 10 times fast. You know, I think there's a reason my Americans are a little intimidated by telling mine. This might be one of them. So when you're just like point on the menu and you're like that one. That one. Yeah, I honestly swear to God, I think it's only in the last like three years that I've gotten comfortable with ordering Italian wine on a wine list. And I won't even say I'm comfortable. I still, when I go into a your restaurant and I'm like, yeah. - Oh no, no no. - But there's somebody who knows. - Right, it's not something to fall on. - Yeah. - It's so rolling for everyone. - But it does speak to this idea that there's a lot of value to be had in Italy. And even in Burola, which is not typically a place that you find a ton of value. So, this particular one, this is Fessatti, which is a very special vineyard, Listeras to the North, at least, day to the east, and then the framed Bricko del Viola to the South. What's kind of cool is vineyards are everything, right? And Italy and Teruarez, everything. So, if you know vineyards, you can often find really great deals. And I think this is a great example of this one because other single vineyard bottlings of this wine or of this particular vineyard would go for anywhere from 125 to $375. This is coming in about 45. So, it's a great deal. - It's sort of, yeah, it's kind of akin to like, great cashmere, you know? Like, listen, you go to Air Mask and you're gonna spend Air Mask dollars, right? - Totally. - But if you do a little research, you can probably find who might be supplying that cashmere. - Right, there's that green like, - That's your quince now that gives you great, yeah, affordable options. - Exactly, so again, in this information, sharing transparency era, there are deals to be added. And so, I think this is a great example, but. - Can I also just say really quick, the little card that comes with it? This is like a wine lover's dream. Like, yes, this is so cool. For anyone that hasn't seen this, it's pre-frated. So, you can like tear this part off, put this on the bottle neck, tells you what the wine was, when to drink it, you know, serving temperature, what the fruit intensity, oh, can you see body, city, it's awesome. I love this. - People use them all the time. Whenever I like walk into sellers of people who shop at wine access, they always have their cards and they go, that's so cool. 'Cause I love them. I think they're super helpful. And then the right up on there, a lot of it, we don't really talk about it very often, but the right ups for all of these wines are unique to wine access. So, like, they have old content team that puts that together. So, they're filled with fun facts, but Italy is complicated as wine influencers. I want to kind of kick off this conversation, basically one of the hardest and most complicated topics, the world to tackle is wine. And for wine influencers, we have an additional job of trying to do that in about 90 seconds or less. There's always some information to still. We try to do what the best we can. We try to figure out what should stay in. You know, we put our scripts together, we edit out maybe what doesn't need to be there. If you were to make a video about Borello, what would you keep in, what would you keep out, what would be the salient points to discuss if you were making the video? - When it comes to Borello, if I was just introducing someone to it, I mean, it's like one of the kings of Italy. And it's such a unique wine in that it looks so unassuming. When you look at it, you might think it's like a peanut or a lard. Sometimes there can be much more of like a garnet light color to it. And then when you taste it, it's just like a firework in your mouth. And it's such a cool thing to experience and to start to try more of and learn about. So the grape is called nebula. And there's two main regions in Piedmont, Italy, where this is grown Borello and Barbarisco. There's so many interesting things about where they're grown on the hillsides and the nebia fog, that impacts it, and the rigorous aging of the wine too. It's just a tan and an acid powerhouse, even though you wouldn't think so. And it pairs so well with rich foods too. - Nebula is the grape. And whenever we're talking about wines in Europe, we're usually first and foremost talking about the place. This is how they're labeled. So if you look at this bottle, it says on the very front of here, it says Barulo. And Barulo is both a wine and a place, which I think for wine drinkers starting out, this is a weird thing to graph. Did you, I feel like it took me getting into wine to understand that like, Keonti is a place and Shabli is a place. - So it's a wine. - So yeah, I mean, it's this place, right? And I think if you also look at what is eaten and what is grown in these areas, it also speaks to this wine. And so this is the land of truffles. It's the land where you're gonna find a lot of rich foods. And as you said, this is what grows together goes together. This is a wine that really pairs very well with brisket and rich fatty meats and big saucy dishes. Braised things is what Barulo goes with. But it is such an interesting wine because it's not a wine, as you said, that looks like it's going to be powerful. You look at it and you're like, eh, it's kind of colored. It looks more like pito, as you said. And then you get injured and you're like, oh, there's a lot going on. - That packs a punch. That is not pino. - And this is also such a good Barulo too. Like I'm gonna be totally honest. It's not always like my first go to if I'm looking for Italian wines. Okay, let's get to know. And sometimes Barulo can be intimidating because people talk about like how much it packs a punch and it needs to be aged for so long. And it's got these tinnans that are gonna creep your face off. And so it like scares some people away. And I think maybe that like intensity of a Barulo is more for like the wine enthusiasts and people that are like really diving down. I think this is the perfect introduction into Barulo because it still has like this beautiful juicy like red fruit characteristic. But then you also get, and not if I'm like jumping ahead, getting into the tasting notes. But there's this like beautiful like leather and dried like floral and herbal characteristic too that and the tanin is not overpowering by any means. Like I think it's there, but it's not gripping my face off. - No, I agree. I think one thing Italy does really well and specifically in Piedmont and Barulo is this idea of like you can have fruit and savory together in tandem and you can do it really seamlessly. It's one of the few places that I find it works really well. Like you find it a little bit in Bordeaux. You know, I think you see it in the room with Sarras sometimes. But again, like it can be a little overwhelming and they don't always like work so well. I think there's just this like, there's this elegance right that you would find in like a tomato sauce where you can have all of these savoring radiance in the way of time and regano and like all of these savoury seasonings and then you can have the sweetness of the tomato kind of balance that out. - I agree. - To me like Italian wines of beauty are them is that they really do speak to their place. And I understand I'm with you like Barulo. It's not what I gravitate towards because I also like, I don't gravitate towards like brisket. I don't gravitate towards heavy foods. It's just like not what I want every day. But there are examples of Barulo like this where I'm like, guess I'm in for this. This feels a lot more approachable, a lot more easy drinking. And you're right, the tannins don't feel super super grippy like they often do with some Barulo's. It feels very youthful and it feels very live but it also somehow feels evolved at the same time. So, great. But I will say if you haven't traveled to Italy and you are kind of in the same place we are with not necessarily loving Italian wines, I promise you a trip to Italy will change that. Like, 100%. Can't not. There is something I'm up being there. I'm like seeing the place and drinking the wines eating the food and me and the people and experiencing culture that just makes it all work. And then you go into your wine, whatever, your wine fridge and you pull it a bottle and like you're instantly transported. And that's kind of where I am right now. It's just kind of full. I know. Yeah, on a Wednesday we're just in Piedmont. I love it. (laughing) Bring on the shape truffles. Would that be so nice right now? We also, we have done like a full episode on Piedmont and I will, if you're watching on YouTube right now, I will make sure those are linked somewhere for you guys. I want to talk a little bit about being a wine influencer. We'll circle back to like, you know, finding wines and all that stuff. I want to peel back the curtain a little bit on what we do. What do you think the hardest part of your job is? It is a job by the way for those who are rolling your eyes right now. It is such a job. And I think that's why the word influencer triggers me because I think people think we just like sit around all day and like talk to our camera. There's so much that goes into it. I think right now the hardest part about my job and one of the things that held me back from jumping into this full time is that there is no road map. Like, you know, a lot of careers. It's like, you do, you go to school for this and then you go to grad school for this. Then you do this and you climb the ladder. It's like, you're figuring it out. There are-- - There's a road adventure. - Exactly. And there are people you can turn to, which is like, why I'm so grateful for you that like, you've come before me. There are certain things, a piece of advice, you've been able to help me out, which is so amazing. But a lot of it is just like, no one has cracked the code on social media. If someone tells you that they know exactly how it works, like nobody does. And so not only is our job constantly evolving. There's 10 million things coming at us at any given moment, even before sort of courting we're talking about. Just like switching gears and I think it's that. We're just figuring everything out. Not only the content piece, but then the business piece too. The platforms are always changing. So they're always adding new things that you have to adjust to and add in. The algorithms are always changing. Your audience is always changing. And then some massive app might go away and blink of an eye. Yeah, I guess by the time this comes out, we should have some sort of clarity as to what's going on with TikTok, which is so wild. What I find most difficult is just the consistency and the energy and the social energy that's retired, that over the last 10 years has ebbed in float and I don't have it 100% of the time. And I think having being okay with that is really hard. So giving yourself the grace to just be like, hey, I don't have it today to answer all the DMs. And I don't have it today to argue with someone that actually I never really argue with anybody in the comments. But it's also, I think it's allowed me to taste wines and do things that I probably would not have done and not necessarily because I couldn't have done it, like not from like an economics standpoint, but it's forced me into places that I wouldn't normally have gone. And that's one of my favorite things. So I was going to ask you, like, how do you, how do you find producers? How do you vet people? Like, what's your protocol for bringing wine to the people? Yeah, it's super layered. I feel like I don't really have like a set rule. Sometimes it's like the right opportunity at the right time or it's something that like I'm personally really interested in. One example I'll share like recently was livermore wine association rich. And I was like, I've heard of livermore before, which is, you know, like it's a little over an hour away from me. Great outlet shopping, by the way. Yeah, there really is. It's just east of San Francisco. And I was like, I don't really know about livermore wine. And I went and I was like, let's just try it out. Let's, let's see. And it just blew me away. And it was something I never would have gone to on my own. I probably never would have picked up a bottle from livermore from being totally honest. And now I'm like such a huge little more advocate. So totally what you're saying, like places you would have never gone, wines you might not have ever tried. Similar to you, like, we're constantly just getting flooded with people wanting to try our wines to review it, to share about it, to come visit. And it's kind of hard to navigate. But I think it just depends on something that we think will be aligned with our audience. I mean, that will provide value to them. That's something that's like really at the forefront for me. If it's someone reaching out saying like, I'm releasing this new $400 bottle, like, cold wine from Napa Valley, for me personally, I might pass on that just because it doesn't resonate with my audience. I would love to try it. Absolutely. If they want to give me a sample sure. Yeah. But I really am thinking about my audience for some foremost for anything that I agree to share. Are there things that you're looking for when they reach out to you? Like, let's say it's a producer that you've never heard of before. Maybe it's in a more well-known region. Maybe it's not. Are you looking to their website? Are you looking to their Instagram? Are there clues that tip you off as to whether this is a good fit? Yeah. I think something that I've been focused on more, especially as some of my like, you know, grocery store, Costco, total line videos are becoming more popular. That's what a lot of people are like, they're looking for accessibility. How do I find this wine? Because there's so many incredible wines out there that are really small production, really hard to find. And it's cool, I think, to taste those share about them every now and then. But I really want to make sure from the majority of the wines that I share, that it's something people can find. Whether that's you can order it online, you can get shipped to you easily. It's something maybe you could go find a wine shop near you. That's one of the reasons why I love places like wine access, wine spies, all sorts of things like that. It allows you to get access to really cool wines. I'm with you. When I first started, that was actually a really, suddenly I actually forgot that that was a big thing that I did to vet whether or not I wanted to talk to talk about a wine was, is this available? And this was before, even before I started working with wine access, I started looking for wines on like wine.com because I couldn't, I couldn't find somewhere that, you know, always had what I wanted. And then I quickly realized that wine to come, the selection differentiated by state. And so when wine access came along, I kind of looked at their model and I was like, oh, it was like, this is actually, this perfectly aligns with so many things. And it was, one was like, what's their customer service? Like, that was huge to me. And that to this day is still, like, I will sometimes all vet wineries by just like calling winery or like DMing them to see like, how they respond. Because I want to know how they're going to interact with people that, who are interacting with them. Also, like shipping, like, do you care about shipping? You know, are you, like, if you're shipping in July, with no ice? That's obviously a big no-no. So that was a big thing for me with my access was like, you know, I know that they're shipping with, you know, good packaging and usually it's temperature controlled. Yeah, like, they care about the integrity of the wines and making sure the customers are happy. Yeah. Yeah. So I mean, those were all like big considerations that I made. I also, I want to see transparency like on your website. Like, I want information. I don't want some like BS PR thing that looks the same as everyone else. I also, I was thinking about the sluss mate because I was thinking about some of the questions that I was going to ask you and I was like, there is like one thing that immediate, like, I've seen it on enough times that I know it's an immediate no. And I wonder if you feel a thing. I'm so curious. So whenever I see like, wineries that are doing like chocolate and wine pairing experiences, it's not always a red flag, but it is like, it's a yellow. It's like a totally nursing way of saying, yeah. Okay, so to back up, there's nothing wrong with chocolate and wine pairing except that they don't go together. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And so and like a wine like a winery who's like making wine like will mostly know that in the little cater and there's some wineries that I will say, I have gone to and they actually do it really. It's chocolate and wine pairing and they try to make it work. But you know what I'm talking about. Totally. Because that do these like, if you're like white chocolate milk chocolate dark chocolate with our reds and like, ooh. Yeah, like the kitschy things. I'm just like, I can't I can't get on board with that. So that's a that's a bit of a yellowish red. It's like more so catering to what people have like, like this assumption of wine and like the story we've heard about wine and chocolate rather than like being knowledgeable about it. Totally. Lines and what goes best with them. Yeah. I never really thought about that, but now I'm totally out of flag. Yeah. It's gonna be. Yeah. People are another big one. I also try not to work with any wineries that I've never had a relationship with before. So like at the very least I want to have had your wine for a period of time. But like, I also want to meet some of the people behind it. Because again, like I don't absolutely. People speak volumes about their product. It's the two go hand in hand. It really does. And there's got to be something behind the wine too. Like I hate to say this, but I feel really passionate about this. If your whole like story and personality behind your wine is that your family owned multiple generations, you've got a state vineyards. Unfortunately, you're just like everybody else, you know, or like 80% of other wineries out there. And there's got to be something else behind that. Like what makes you different? Makes you stand out whether that's like the persona that you share on social media or like the people behind your wine or is there some kind of like charity that you support or like really unique thing going on behind the scenes. Like that's what I get excited about. That's what I want to share with people. Right. I mean, I think that what wineries have to remember is, you know, at the end of the day, if people are enjoying your wine at a dinner table, they're probably not talking about the wine. They're probably talking about the experience around the wine. Yes. So, you know, for example, if you went to like frog sleep, right? You're probably not talking about the wine at frog sleep. You're probably talking about the beautiful gardens and the fact that like there's a dog that runs around and steals your cheese and there's bees on property. Like there's things like that that are stickier for people that make them remember your wine. And I think that's where brands sort of miss the mark. It's like to your point, hey, we're family owned and operated. We own our own vineyards. Like, yeah, that's great. But like, do you have a personality beyond that? Do you have an ethos? Do you have a philosophy that drives you? Are you into motorcycle? Like there's a million things that I want to know beyond just how you make your wine. 100% couldn't be more. We have to talk about the wine trolls. Oh my gosh. Do you have a particular favorite kind of wine troll? I have mine. Yeah. Okay. You go first. Pronunciation, police. There is special kind of awful. There you are. It's so much so much about who you are as a person. If that's what you're doing, I have never ever once commented on someone's video. One, I've never left a negative comment ever. If I don't like something, I just keep scrolling. But like, something that was so huge for me was there's like a very well-known, sommelier wine professional who I completely look up to in my room. And I was watching a video of theirs, not because I hear it as, and they missed her now. It's like a wine you that I thought was well-known. And it was just kind of like, oh, I'm like, we're on a little bit and I was like, oh yeah, no, they did miss her now. So I was like, okay, cool. Yeah, we don't know everything. Even though we know a lot of stuff about wine, we don't know everything. It does not make me think of them any less. What was I going to do? Be like, you missed her now? It's like, how silly are things to deal? Well, and that's the thing with wine. And this is, I hope people listening get some value out of this conversation in that nobody speaks all of these languages. - Yeah. - For the most part, right? We're all gonna mispronounce things. We're all gonna pronounce things differently. Whether it's a mispronounce or not a mispronounce, we're all gonna pronounce them differently. And that's okay. Get your point across. It's not a big deal. Keep it moving. - Yeah. And I've talked with you about this before and kind of like shared on my page that like, I was not a floor song. And so my exposure to a knowledge of different wines is not the same as everybody else, right? Everybody has complete and backwards of each other whether you work on the floor or not. Like what's on your wine list, like you're probably very familiar with versus like someone else that might be in distributing but like both people are credible and know about wine. So that's something that I didn't think was like an intimidation factor for me until I started getting the trolls and the wine police. And then at first I was really intimidated by it and it was hitting on a big insecurity. And then I was like, okay, whatever. Thank you for the engagement. Thanks for commenting. (laughing) My favorite I would say the people that I'll just like go all out and like calling you the most obscure names and like completely trying to just credit you. And it's like, and then you look at their profile and freaking knows what's going on there. It's cats, yes, exactly. There was one guy who was just like trolling me like crazy and it was just so funny. Like the names he was calling me was just so out there. Like 7/11 song, some and like snob witch and, my gosh, whatever, like wine, toad, snob. And I was like, oh, I'm turning this into merch. Like this is amazing. That turned into like a whole thing. - Yes, I love seeing the wine toad. - Yeah, it's merch come to life. That was amazing. - Just was like, okay, I'm just gonna make lemonade. (laughing) - You know, the world is full of snobs in some regard. The wine world seems to be a higher percentage of them for some reason. And it's always been a goal of mine. I know it's a goal of yours to reduce that factor, but I'm just not sure that we're gonna be able to. - Yeah. - What I wanna do is let people know that it's okay to be wrong. It's okay to not know something. Like it's okay to say I don't know. - Exactly. - And be okay with that. I'm sure there are tons of videos out there that I have done where I've like, I've gotten something wrong. Like I know that I've gotten things wrong before. I know that I've mispronounced things before it, but that's the price that you pay or the, you know, the potential pitfall that you step into when you put yourself out there in social media and you're in this world. That is, you know, a complicated one. - And like if someone politely says like, hey, just letting you know like this is, there was one time I was sharing a wine bottle. Like from a winery that I loved and I like misspoke on it. And they're like, hey, thank you so much for sharing. Like actually, this is how we made it. This is where it got the color from. I was like, oh, thank you so much. Cool. Now I know and I'll remember that. - And do it privately. - But some, yeah, exactly. You don't have to put someone in a blast. Like that doesn't make you look any better. - Right. - But something that I'll say too that this make me think about is I was so scared to even start our confidence on court. I thought about it like every single day for about a year and a half. And then friends started it at the beginning of 2020. But I was so scared because I didn't know everything. And I was like, I need to know everything about wine in order to talk about it. And for people to take me seriously. And if I still believe that, I would still not be able to start confidence on court. Because I don't know everything about wine. You don't know everything about wine. That's the best part about it is that we're always getting to learn about it and grow. - I mean, that's the other thing about wine that I think a lot of people, one of the biggest misconceptions is you have to understand wine to enjoy it. I think that you can enjoy it independent of understanding it. I think there is something to be said for both things coming together. But if you don't know anything about burillo and you pick up burillo and it's delicious to you, that road can end there for you. You don't have to know it. And also like even our jobs on here, I do a lot of research around my videos. The videos that I do now are scripted. And for a lot of reasons, one, it's mostly time. I want to make sure that I'm getting in the Silicon Poins and editing out the things that maybe are less relevant. But I do that because I also want to learn. This is as much as a place for me to share content as it is for me to continue my own wine journey. So just know that if you're watching videos, there is a high probability that I learned something through this process as well. Like I was doing research and I was like, I don't know that, that's really interesting. We're gonna throw that in there. - It's so funny. People, I'm sure people tell you this all the time too, because I hear it. They're like, wow, your content is just so seamless and natural. It's so crazy to just pick up the camera and do that. And I was like, yeah, not scripted, not researched. None of that. - How long does it take you to put together a video? - Oh gosh, depends on obviously the type of video. I mean, there's so much that goes into it that people don't think about too. Like there's the communication back and forth with a winery or brand. There's like, they're receiving the wine and then there's like, the planning out, okay, what's my hope gonna be? How am I gonna get people's attention? What is like the value or the education or the entertainment? I'm gonna share with them and then how do I fit that education piece in there? And the most important things. So I mean, I would love to say it takes me 30 minutes, but sometimes it can easily take me like an hour plus. And then even as you're filming it, sometimes you're like, I'm gonna switch that around and then when you're editing it, you're like, you're gonna move all these things around and you just have to go for a walk. You're like, I mean, yeah. So wait for a second. - I think if you were realistic about it and you'd realize it's upwards of about 10 hours per video. - Oh yeah, it's so much time. Yeah, I was talking about like just the scripting out part, but there is so much work that goes into a configuration that people do not understand. And that is like, we go on for like an hour about this too. Like our rates are not just for a video. - Right. - For like a third second video. There's so much time that goes into that. - What's the most rewarding thing about what you do or maybe what's your favorite thing about what you do? - Honestly, it's when people reach out to me and tell me, they just, I don't know if I get like a nice message. Someone saying like, hey, just thank you for what you do. Like thank you for sharing this. You know, you're helping me feel less into me about wine or someone like trying a recommendation of mine. Oh my gosh, that's like my lovely. (laughs) That feels so nice for anyone, right? If someone like recommends a podcast, you're like, okay, listen if I want access podcasts. And then they listen to it, you're like, oh my gosh, like you took the time out of your day. Yeah, you spent your hard earned money on this. Like something that is meaningful and important to me, you also appreciate like that is so special. I love that. How about you? - When people will come back me, so oh my god, I bought the wine that you recommended and I loved it and it was great. Or they, you know, they'll share it on Instagram or you know, see people at events and they'll tell me that they're like fans of podcasts which still like blows my mind. Actually, I was at, I got recognized at Whole Foods yesterday. I was very excited. - Amazing. - 'Cause a lot of times, you know, you'll get recognized like wine events and like in the context of doing, but to be recognized outside of character was actually kind of cool. - Oh my gosh. No, pop rats, please. - It's all very rewarding. And to be able to be living my own life and to document it over the past few years has also been like, really rewarding and really fun. But also to see other people that feel that they can do the same thing is, it's just the best. We get to work in the best industry. It is not always easy. - Yeah, I always say that though. Like why would anyone pick anything else? I, I, I, I so much fun. People are like, this is what you do for your job? I'm like, I see the FedEx driver and the EPS driver a lot, they deliver a lot of wine to my house and they're always like, this is, this is your life on my skin. Speaking of producers, I wanted to ask you what your top three tips for wine newbies are when it comes to looking for producers, when it comes to enjoying wine, someone who's maybe never had wine or is not so comfortable with it, what would you tell them? - I think the best way to answer this is to speak from my personal experience and something that I really believe in is finding someone you can trust that helps provide information and recommendations because that's how I learned. Like I have so many distinct memories of like walking into wine shops and just feeling so overwhelmed, feeling like people were watching me and judging me where my eye's looking, how much I'm spending on a bottle. In fact, like, that's not the case at all. But I was just like, I want some direction here. I don't even know what to do. And I was like, so scared, even asked for help. But once I started working in wine and getting direction from like a wine maker or like becoming friends with people like a wine shop and just asking for help, like they're so excited. They love wine this way. They work in wine, right? Like they're so passionate about what they're carrying and selling what they're tasting and their job is to help you find something that you love. And that's like always my number one tip is ask for help or find someone like us that you learn to trust with recommendations. You also don't need to read a book before you go talk to people. Not at all. Just go in and tell them this is a kind of coffee you like and they'll take what you got. Yeah, you're like, this is how much I want to spend. This is what I'm eating. This is really helpful too. Say another wine that you like to drink that immediately tells you, you know, okay, I know you're gonna like something like this. Or if you don't like wine and you like cocktails or a type of beer, also acceptable. Exactly. If you're more of a negroni person, then a Cosmo, like that's kind of helpful. Exactly. And I think being open to trying new things for the longest time I found one wine that I liked, you know, back when I was like 22, 23. What was it? Yes, you have to say it. It was 19 crimes, man. Yes, that's awesome. It's like the most popular wine in America. What are you talking about? I was literally converted. I was like a little influencer before my social media days. I would convert everybody to 19 crimes. I was like, this is the best wine ever. And no shame. - Get after it. - I just kept buying it 'cause I was like, I know I like this and I'm scared to try other things. So I think like being willing to take risks, try something different and even like, you know, I think the best way, go to a wine bar, go to like a tasting, a place where you can like try a bunch of different wines 'cause literally experiencing it is the best way to learn if you like it or not. You gotta do your homework. - You have to do your homework and your homework is usually very pleasant in the way of trying my works. - I am curious though, how did you get from 19 crimes to other wines? - By working in wine. - Were there particular wines that you were like, these were my stepping stones? - I think my stepping stone out of that. So the first wine that I worked for is really interesting. It was like, we made our own wine. We also were wine retailer. So it's such a great way to learn about wines from around the world of like small production family on wines. I think my stepping stone was like Russian River Pino. Like something juicy, not aggressive, light tan in. And it started working my way from there because the first time I ever went to Napa, like back when I was 21, 22, I hated red wine. I thought it was disgusting. I wouldn't touch it. And I was pouring it out everywhere we went. And like they'll shock and horror everywhere. People like, what are you doing? I was like, I don't know how you can drink this. I didn't like grow up. My parents didn't really drink wine. So yeah, just like having up in mind, I think. - Yeah. - It's the best thing. - Some of the first wines I ever drank, I know we were like big fans of conundrum. A white, like early that, if we went actually like a nice dinner, that was like a bottle that we'd order a lot. I liked the cupcakes. I like, oh, Menage Toa. That was a big one in our house. We love Menage Toa. I think my mom thought the label was very funny, but it ended up becoming a wine that I drank. But you know, when I moved to New York, I was surrounded by a lot of French people. So I drank Rose for a long time because it felt easy enough and also like the French girls were drinking it. So that kind of felt sophisticated at the same time. - I love that. - The first bottle I ever spent like a decent amount of money on was Pats and Hall of Shardini. - Nice, that's awesome. - Yeah. - So it probably has like a really special placing heart. - Yeah, actually, when I ended up becoming friends with Donald Pats and the first thing I said when I met him was like, "Your wine was the first wine that I ever spent my heart and New York dollars on as I met a wine shipper on the corner." So. - My first wine ever that I loved, even before that was Barefoot, Mascotto, and drank that light, it's been just going out of style. - I don't think I've ever, I've actually never, well, to my knowledge. - How to? - Maybe I've had it drunkenly. I don't think I've ever had Barefoot. - If you had it blind, it's an interesting humbling experience. (laughs) - It's a good point. I should revisit some of your visits, some of these less expensive wines that I've never really had before. I've done the Trader Joe's, like the Charles Shaw wines before. There's a video of me tasting Tariya used to have a line of wines called California Roots. - Oh, yeah. I used to watch all of those videos. - Oh, yeah. - Like when your hair was-- - My hair was so sh-- - Oh yeah, oh yeah. - I thought the, you know, for the, the righty correctness of it, the Charles Shaw wines were actually not, they were bad. - Yeah, not too bad, you know? Like whatever works to you. That's all the matter. That's all the important thing to remember in wine. Like if it tastes good to you-- - We support. We support. - Yeah. Wait, what about you? What would you say? Or like some of the best tips? - Well, my tips are newbies. - Yeah. - To me, the way that I learned about wine was through travel and through experiencing it. And obviously when you're young, you maybe don't have means, a means to travel. But also like if you're studying abroad or if you're like, if you're just going anywhere that even has a wine region nearby, just try it. Like I think to me, starting to assign place and wine early is something that I think will really help you if you want that to me your journey. You know, everyone asks for the book recommend and I think there's some great books out there but I've learned very little from books. I've learned most of what I know from drinking and exploring and talking to people. So, you know, even if you find yourself in Virginia, you know, there are wine regions in Virginia if you find yourself in New York and Michigan wherever. Like if you're interested in wine and there's wine being made, there's wine being made in all 50 states. Like just start getting out and exploring and especially if you're going to be in Europe. There's no excuse if you're going to be here. - I know, come on. Yeah, just be curious, absolutely. - I totally agree with that. - Yeah, I mean, you know, everybody learns in different ways. Like I said, for me, books were never the, the books are what I reference back to. Books are where I go to confirm information or if I want to prep myself for going to a region and familiarize myself with what's going on. That's great. But it is by no means the way that I am learning about wine. It's also the least fun way to learn about wine. - Yeah, it's a lot more fun. - And it's totally different when like, you know, 'cause I remember I'm from Texas and that's where I started in wine and was reading and studying about like Sonoma, Napa and you're learning about like the Myakamas and the Valkasnott Ranges and the Russian River and the Diurnal Shift and it doesn't fully click until you're there and you experience it and then you're like, "Correct." - Okay, good to have. - Yeah, when that temperature drops at 6 p.m. - And Apivelli and all of a sudden that like sundress that was almost too warm earlier feels like you need a parka over top of it. - Exactly. - Then you will understand what a Diurnal Shift is and you will feel what the grapes feel. Yeah, there is no substitution for that feeling and I think understanding that early on. The other thing is like, you know, just start paying attention to what you're eating, what you're smelling. That sensory memory, that sensory match is something that you also can't learn in a book and you also can't really learn in a wine region. So I think the more you pay attention to likes and dislikes when it comes to texture, of flavors, things like that and matching them with words, the easier it's gonna be for you to start learning about wine. - That's such an important point too and like none of this is instinctual and no one's born with this. I'm sure you guys all the time people say like, "Oh, I can never do that. I don't have the ability to taste like this." Like I wasn't born with this. Like it's a skill that you continue to practice and refine and exactly being intentional, putting what you're tasting into memory. Like have you ever thought about cherry when you're eating it? Have you thought about a red cherry and a black cherry? Once you think about that and ingrained into your mind, then you are able to pick those up. - Yeah, I'm sure some people will have a huge issue with this but you know, I've got a nice and enough you. I do not feed them wine. Just I do feed them caviar. They love it. - Nice. - I will have them smell lots of things, including my wine glass, but I'll have them smell lots of things. I'll put foods in front of them and say like, tell me what this is, what does this smell like? And they're great and it's like a fun game, but like as much as we do that with kids, we can do that in our adult life as well. - Oh, really? Yeah, I love that. They're gonna be like prime to be the. - They better be. I mean those kids, I jokingly gave, I mean he was three at the time. I mean, we were like, "Harland, do you wanna taste caviar?" And he was like, "Yeah." And so I gave him a little taste. - And this kid, you might have thought I was putting candy canes over a marshmallow and no, he could not get enough of this caviar. And then his sister is the same way. Anytime the caviar comes out, they run fist first. - You created a monster. - Totally. - A sense of monster. So now we have to hide the caviar. Your caviar can't come out until the kids are in bed now. - Oh my gosh, that's hilarious. I don't think I tried caviar for the first time. So I was like 26 or something. - Same. - Yeah. (laughing) - You're like, "Lerspin, how's the clear here?" - Yeah. - This is like a fun thing that we do like on holidays and birthdays. I just, I thought for sure he was maybe like, "I want no parts of this." - I would love to be a fly on the wall when he goes over to friends houses someday and be like, "Do I have any caviar here?" And they're like, the mom's like, "What?" - These kids better make a lot of money for themselves. Mostly so they can supply aunties, future champagne wrappers when they're all enough to find. - Yeah. - Where are this has been so much fun, thank you. - No, oh my gosh, thank you. I am so honored and yeah, I feel like I touched on this earlier, but like, not to get a little sappy. You are someone that I've looked up to for so long. Like I used to watch your videos all the time. Like my first straw and wine, like way back in the like 20, I don't know, 17 or so. Like you were one of the only people out there like filming yourself and providing education information about wine. I just, I saw you doing it and it kind of gave me the permission to dream. - That's very nice. - And I just want to thank you for everything that you've done. You are just such an amazing incredible person in the industry. - Yeah, you have to stop talking about it. I don't like it. - I don't like being about to talk. - I just want to let you know. - No, I really appreciate it. You know, it's the best thing anyone could ever say because it's, I felt, oh, this is the worst. I felt very alone for a very long time. - I know. - And not, and I was comfortable in doing that. But you know, you work, even now you work, you know, in a silo sometimes and you work independent of a lot of other humans. And so you forget sometimes that people are watching, right? And there's other, there's other humans that are on the other side of the screen. And you're impacting people in some way, whether that be positive or negative or ambivalence. So when I hear things like that, I think it triggers something and it brings me back to those early days when I felt like no one was watching. - I know. - And I was like, what am I doing this for? But that's, I really appreciate that. Thank you. It's been a pleasure to watch you grow and do your thing and share what you have to share. I think what you do is, is wonderful and necessary. And I so appreciate you putting yourself out there because as we all know, most people can't, most people won't and most people can't do it as well as you can. So thank you. - Well, thank you so much. This is. - So much fun. - I hope you get to do it again. - Yes, absolutely. All right, tell the people where they can find you. - Well, confidence and courts on Instagram. It's probably the best way. And then if you go to my link and buy out, there's links, I've got a substock newsletter. I would say TikTok, you can find a man TikTok as long as that app is around. - TV, D, on TikTok. But yeah, I mean, definitely sign up for a substock so you can always stay connected regardless of whether or not these apps decide to shoot the better or not. We'll see, at least we've got wine. - At least we have wine. We have each other. - Yeah, it's on the list. - We have this podcast in the meantime. To those of you who are joining us, thank you so much. The wine again was the Kalina San Palonzo Barolo. We will link everything in the description if you are not part of the wine club. You can do that now. And this is also your reminder. If you enjoyed this video, to give us a thumbs up on YouTube, leave us a comment. And then also if you're listening to this format, we always appreciate a review, preferably the five star one. If you got less than five stars to give, you can just send me a DM. That's why I'll take a DM. (laughs) All right, thanks guys. - Thank you. (upbeat music)