The Scientist Who Built Project Stargate and UFO Research - Camp Gagnon

The Scientist Who Kept the Impossible Alive The same physicist who helped create Project Stargate is the same guy who's now telling Congress that UFOs might be interdimensional. Look, he went from Stanford's laser lab to remote viewing experiments, then from UFO programs to a UFO disclosure campaign. His ideas of propulsion and how UFOs work became the backbone of how our government identifies objects. Speaker 2 From out of this world. Speaker 1 He's not just a researcher. He was the bridge between fringe science and national security, and the man who helped transform Project Blue Books Forbidden Questions into today's Pentagon investigation. Two different eras, but one continuous thread. Speaker 2 And it all centers around one man. How put on? Speaker 1 This is the story of how a brilliant physicist spent nearly 50 years keeping the impossible alive inside the minds of the people in our government, and ultimately why the Pentagon keeps on asking to come back. So if you are interested in the mysteries of ancient technology. Speaker 2 UFOs and. Speaker 1 The scientists that have gone and risked A reputation for disclosure. Well, this is the episode, so sit back, relax. Speaker 2 And welcome. Speaker 1 What's up people, and welcome back to camp. My name is Mark Gagnon and thank you for joining me in my tent where every single week we explore the most. Speaker 2 Interesting, fascinating, controversial stories from around the world from all time forever, yes. Speaker 1 Basically, this is my idea. You know what I'm going to say? I said. I'm going to try to learn everything that's ever happened and go on these crazy wormholes and. Speaker 2 Jump down these, you know. Speaker 1 Crazy trails and see where it leads me and I want to learn in real time with you guys. So that's what we're doing here at the campsite, and it wouldn't be possible without you clicking on this video and tuning in and being a part of what we're building over here at camp. Speaker 2 It's also not possible without. Speaker 1 My dear pal Christos, how are you? Christos, what's going on? I've noticed something a lot of people in the comments. Speaker 2 Have been dogging you. They've been saying you're yapping too much. Speaker 1 I'm aware. Speaker 2 And that hurts my feelings. Speaker 3 Same but. Speaker 1 You know, it hurts my feelings more, you yapping all the time, All right? It's all the yapping you're doing. It's really pissing me off. From Lasers to UFOs: Puthoff's Early Path OK, We don't have time for Christos's interjections because we're talking about how put off now if you don't know who this guy is. Speaker 2 You probably. Speaker 1 Didn't see his Rogan interview. Speaker 2 Which is fascinating. People should check that out. Speaker 1 He is AI mean, one of the more notorious people in sort of like the UFO, Sort of like paranormal science space. Speaker 2 That I just love. Speaker 1 Reading about because I love the people that have. Speaker 2 A proper science background that's also interested in weird stuff like me, you know? Speaker 1 That's that's that's, that's sometimes you talk to people that are. Speaker 2 Into like the paranormal. Speaker 1 And like the freaky Deaky. Speaker 2 That's going on here on Earth and they're. Speaker 1 Just like a little too. Speaker 2 Crazy. And you're like, it's tough to really get a read. Speaker 1 On this but when you get someone that's. Speaker 2 Like from a proper science background, then you're like, oh, nice. And on top of that? Speaker 1 Florida boy. He went to University of Florida, but I count it Anyway, let's jump in. All right, Basically if you would need. Speaker 2 If you don't know anything about how put off, you're in the right place. I'm going to tell you everything that's going on. Speaker 1 Basically, before how put off was? Speaker 2 Actually, like, you know, briefing senators about interdimensional craft and you know what's going on in space. Speaker 1 He was just a kid from Chicago who happened to be really good at building lasers. He was born June 20th, 1936 and after. Speaker 2 Earning engineering degrees from the. Speaker 1 University of Florida, he joined the Navy and worked at the. Speaker 2 NSA from 19. Speaker 1 60 to 1963 at the NSA, he's basically working on technology that's super. Speaker 2 Advanced, I mean fiber. Speaker 1 Optics like high-powered lasers, high speed computing, basically the. Speaker 2 Prototypes for all the computing stuff and all the technology that we're using now. Speaker 1 But in 1967, he earned his PhD from Stanford with a thesis called The Stimulated Ramen Effect in its Application as a Tunable Laser. Speaker 2 Yes, not the Korean dish. Speaker 1 We're talking about basically a tunable infrared laser, which is a laser that makes, you know, this invisible infrared light unless you change the exact wavelength that it produces. And now, shortly after this, he Co writes Fundamentals of Quantum Electronics in 1969. Speaker 2 Which? Speaker 1 Became so influential it gets. Speaker 2 Translated into, you know, almost. Speaker 1 Every language and is still. Speaker 2 Used in universities across the world. Speaker 1 Today, so by any measure put Office on track to become one of America's top conventional physicist specializing in lasers. But in 1969 is also. Speaker 2 The year that something else happens December. Speaker 1 17th the US Air Force officially shut. Speaker 2 Down Project Blue Book. Speaker 1 This is America's longest running official UFO slash UAP investigation program. What's interesting about the timing of all this is that the program wasn't declassified yet. People didn't know about it. It just simply ended. But the timing is weird because as soon as the government claimed to. Speaker 2 Stop investigating UFOs. Speaker 1 Put off was moving in. Speaker 2 The opposite direction and it all starts. Speaker 1 With a belief system that you wouldn't assume a scientist or a physicist would be into which. Exploring Psychic Abilities Through Scientology Is kind of ironic because we're talking about Scientology. Speaker 1 So in the late 1960s, while building his reputation, put off developed an interest in the. Speaker 2 Church of Scientology, but he's. Speaker 1 Not just casually interested in. Speaker 2 Scientology by 1971. Speaker 1 He reached operating Theton level 7. That's the highest level of. Speaker 2 Available at the time for. Speaker 1 Those who don't? Speaker 2 Know Scientology, each operating. Speaker 1 Thetan or OT level is said to reveal a deeper part of a person's innate abilities, and many of which. Speaker 2 Are supernatural for. Speaker 1 Lack of a better word put off writes articles for Scientology's magazine claiming that the training that he got within the Church of Scientology gave him quote a feeling of absolute fearlessness and an experience in which his consciousness seems to have perceived reality outside of the physical body. This is something that the Church of Scientology will call exteriorization, but most. Speaker 2 People would just call it. Speaker 1 Remote viewing. Now if you don't know remote viewing, this is. Speaker 2 Basically the process where. Speaker 1 You know, a remote viewer. Speaker 2 Someone that claims to have this? Speaker 1 Ability will receive coordinates. Speaker 2 Maybe inside like an envelope and by kind of meditating going to like this deep sort of. Speaker 1 Trance. They're able to triangulate these coordinates and see what the. Speaker 2 Coordinates are revealing. So, you know, people have suggested the military's use it to try to see, you know, bases over in Russia or China and see. Speaker 1 Secret nuclear operation. Speaker 2 Stuff like that is it? Speaker 1 Real. Is it proven? Speaker 2 I don't know. Speaker 1 Regardless, he claims that he can do this. So Scientologists believe that when this happens, a person's phaeton, which is basically like. Speaker 2 The conscious being inside of the person that's not the person themselves. It's like this multi generational sort of essence. Speaker 1 It basically leaves the body but can still perceive its. Speaker 2 Surroundings. Now keep in mind. Speaker 1 This is a Stanford educated physicist with NSA security. Speaker 2 Clearance writing about out. Speaker 1 Of body experiences and sort of supernatural perception. Basically remote viewing inside a religious. Speaker 2 Magazine. Speaker 1 And you can imagine most. Speaker 2 Scientists at the time would probably keep that private, but Hal Puthoff did not, and he made it pretty. Speaker 1 Public and he actually decides to test them scientifically, and that decision completely changes the direction. Speaker 2 Of his entire career so. UFOs, Consciousness, and a Parallel Reality Well put off his exploring Scientology at this time. Something is happening within the UFO world. There's an astronomer named Jay Allen Hynek and he had run Project Blue Book for like 22 years and he's extremely. Speaker 2 Frustrated, the Air Force hired him to basically debunk all these UFO sightings that people are claiming to see. But. Speaker 1 By the late 1960s, he's convinced that something is happening and he doesn't know what exactly, but it's something that is difficult to. Speaker 2 Understand or impossible to explain? Speaker 1 And in 1966, Hynek tells his friend Jacques Valet, who is. Speaker 2 I mean just a legend within the UFO space. Speaker 1 And also a computer scientist. And basically, he tells valet his deep, dark secret, that he's fascinated. Speaker 2 In mysticism and the occult and ultimately what's happening with these, you know, beings that people are seeing all the time. Speaker 1 So over the next few years, Hynek and Valet develop a wild new theory that UFOs aren't alien spaceships coming from. Speaker 2 You know far. Speaker 1 Off galaxies they might be beings from a different dimension who have been manipulating human consciousness throughout history so valet basically calls the loose network of scientists and physicists and. Speaker 2 Basically top academic. Speaker 1 Minds studying this sort of fringe field of science, the invisible college, because we don't actually know who's. Speaker 2 Involved only that many of them hold. Speaker 1 Security clearances and work behind the scenes in government. Speaker 2 And academia and within classified research. Speaker 1 So when Project Blue Book officially shuts down in December of 1969, it creates a problem. All these researchers with clearances and an interest in these sort of unexplained sightings suddenly lose their official funding. But the interest in studying this phenomenon. Speaker 2 Doesn't just go away so. Speaker 1 Instead of asking what are these objects they start. Speaker 2 Asking. Speaker 1 Can human consciousness itself detect information beyond the normal physical? Speaker 2 Limits. Is it possible that? Speaker 1 What we can perceive within our physical. Speaker 2 Reality is not all that. Speaker 1 There is, and perhaps there's another reality or a different or a parallel reality that we can access. Speaker 2 With our consciousness. All right. Now this again, this is not my theory. This is what they're asking. Speaker 1 Themselves because if UFOs interact with perception and memory and. Speaker 2 Awareness as Heineck and Valet are kind of floating. Speaker 1 Then consciousness isn't a side effect. Speaker 2 It's like an antenna for your brain. Speaker 1 Now this goes into some. Speaker 2 Like deep like philosophy of the mind stuff like is our brain. Speaker 1 Is consciousness basically non? Speaker 2 Local to our brains? Like does the material brain create consciousness, or is consciousness this sort of underlying thing that unites the entire universe and we have a piece? Speaker 1 Of it that's able to. Speaker 2 Channel the other parts of the universe. Does that make sense? So. Speaker 1 That idea doesn't sound like UFO research anymore. It's almost like this semi scientific psychic research. CIA Funds Remote Viewing with Ingo Swan And that is where put off comes in. Speaker 1 So in 1972, Put Off joins the Stanford research. Speaker 2 Institute. This is the Sri where he's. Speaker 1 Supposed to be working on laser projects, which is of course his specialty, but he also has. Speaker 2 Something else in mind. Speaker 1 In September of that same year, put. Speaker 2 Off Men. Jacques Valet. Speaker 1 Who's working as a computer? Speaker 2 Scientist at Sri. Speaker 1 And coincidentally, he had also just spent the last six years basically talking with Alan Hynek about these interdimensional theories. Speaker 2 And trying to understand what these sort of, you know, UFO experiences are. Speaker 1 So when Valet learns. Speaker 2 About put off Scientology experiments and his. Speaker 1 Exteriorization AKA remote viewing. Everything starts to click. Valet begins to think that maybe psychic abilities in this UFO phenomena. Speaker 2 Are the exact same thing. Speaker 1 Just simply interdimensional beings interacting with human consciousness. Now this takes us to one of the Stanford Research Institute's most famous characters. Speaker 2 And that is a man named. Speaker 1 Ingo Swan Now if you want the full story of Ingo Swan, great news, we did a whole. Speaker 2 Episode dedicated to just him and his work and his life so if you're interested in that. Speaker 1 You can check it out, but just to sum it up, in June of 1972, Put Off conducted an experiment with Ingo Swan, who was literally just an artist. Speaker 2 In New York at the time, but. Speaker 1 Ingo had been claiming that he could see things with his. Speaker 2 Mind not in like the. Speaker 1 Metaphorical way, but like literally. Give me the sealed envelope with the coordinates. Speaker 2 And I'll tell you what I see. Or, you know, draw a picture and don't show me. And I'll tell you what you drew. That kind of thing. And the. Speaker 1 Test is pretty simple. Swan tries to remotely view a hidden target. Speaker 2 That he. Speaker 1 Can't be able to see or perceive in any way through normal means. Speaker 2 But then Swan successfully describes. Speaker 1 The details of the hidden target and the CIA decides there's something here and. Speaker 2 Maybe this is worth investigating. Speaker 1 So within months, the CIA is now funding what becomes a 23 year government program investigating remote viewing at the Stanford Research Institute. In this program is what we now call Project Stargate. And put off becomes its director, working alongside physicist Russell Targ, who helps him create the boundaries of these experiments. And they start testing people. Speaker 2 Like Yuri? Speaker 1 Geller, Pat Price, and even Joseph Mcmonagle all in an attempt to understand if these psychic abilities are legitimate and furthermore, if they can actually be used and utilized for government intelligence. But here's the key put Off and Valet are convinced that they're not just studying human perception. They think that maybe in some way, they're investigating the same interdimensional phenomena that Hynek had been tracking through all these UFO reports. But some critics point out problems. Speaker 2 With the experiments so. Speaker 1 Psychologist Terrence Hines later says the tests were run under conditions. That quote can best be described as chaotic. And that you're a Geller. Who? Speaker 2 Obviously is a very famous magician. Speaker 1 Was nothing more than. Speaker 2 Just that a. Speaker 1 Magician using sleight of hand. So when other researchers tried to replicate. Speaker 2 Put off and targets. Speaker 1 Research under tighter controlled experiments they consistently fail to get significant results but the program keeps going anyway because for put off this was never about psychics or remote viewing or aliens it was about whether human consciousness human consciousness itself could interact with reality in ways that physics just couldn't explain yet so that takes us to the next stage of how's life what's up people we're. Unlocking Unlimited Energy with Zero Point Field Going to take a break really quick because I got to give a shout out to the. Speaker 5 Good folks at Dylan. Speaker 4 Optics. I mean, for the longest time I've been wanting a sunglass. Speaker 5 Partner and I'm so glad that it's a great. Speaker 4 Sunglass brand all right, if you've. Speaker 5 Ever seen me on stage ever or just on this podcast with my hair down? I always have sunglasses. I use them to keep my hair back. But now with Dylan Optics, I can also use them on my eyes because I swear when I put these things on, life was in HD All right, they've got this patented matte lens technology that kills. Speaker 4 Internal reflections my least favorite. Speaker 5 Thing is when you're putting on glasses and you can like see glare on the side and these are amazing. There's no glare, no weird like seeing your own face thing when the sun hits a just right. It is a clean, crisp vision. Speaker 1 The founder is the most. Speaker 4 American dude ever he was. Speaker 1 Literally in the Air Force. Speaker 5 And then after he. Speaker 4 Started experimenting with lenses. Speaker 5 Because he didn't like the sunglasses that he had and. Speaker 4 Literally was baking the lenses. Speaker 5 In his mom's oven. I mean that's America and now they design and manufacture by hand and they've got these matte lenses and stabilized resolution lenses that. Speaker 4 Adjust to light. Speaker 5 And make everything a little sharper. Speaker 1 So if you want sunglasses. Speaker 4 That actually make you see better that look. Speaker 5 Great. And also rock with us over here at the campsite. You're going to go to dylanoptics.com. That's Dillon optics.com. Speaker 4 And if you. Speaker 5 Use the promo code CAMP CAMP. You're going to save 10% off so go check it out. Thank you Dylan Optics for making this possible and let's. Speaker 4 Get back to the. Speaker 1 Show in 1985 put off leaves the Stanford Research Institute to pursue an even more ambitious idea and this idea is called 0 point energy. He basically goes on to found the Institute for Advanced Studies at Austin and his hypothesis is basically that, you know, the zero point field of quantum mechanics, which is the energy that exists in completely empty. Speaker 2 Space might. Speaker 1 Be the key to understanding. I mean everything. Inertia, gravity and potentially even unlimited energy put off basically says this. Maybe inertia? Speaker 2 The thing that makes objects resist being pushed. Speaker 1 Comes from an electromagnetic. Speaker 2 Drag caused by the constant. Speaker 1 Tiny movements of energy particles that are filling the empty space. So if this is true, then manipulating the zero point field could theoretically allow for an exotic propulsion. Speaker 2 System essentially saying that. Speaker 1 Spacecraft could accelerate without rocket fuel simply just by pushing against the fabric of space-time. Speaker 2 Itself by. Speaker 1 Finding the zero point you could actually propel. Speaker 2 An entire ship. Speaker 1 Now, of course, this research and this hypothesis instantly attracts attention from. Speaker 2 I mean everyone from NASA aerospace. Speaker 1 Contractors. Anyone interested in propulsion. But mainstream physicists are skeptical. Scientists like Stephen Carlip and Massimo Pigliucci dismissed these ideas as just pseudoscience, claiming that it involves. Speaker 2 Mathematical errors and. Speaker 1 Ultimately, violations. Speaker 2 Of the laws of thermodynamics. Speaker 1 But Put Off doesn't back down. He keeps chasing these ideas, convinced that mainstream science is overlooking something huge about space-time and energy. And that belief eventually pulls him into one of the most controversial research projects. Investigating Cash Landrum and Skinwalker Ranch In all of modern UFO. Speaker 1 History So in December of 1980, a Texas UFO incident created a bridge between put off psychic research. Speaker 2 And his UFO work. Speaker 1 Work A woman named Betty Cash, Vicki Landrum and Vicki's 7 year old grandson encounter what they describe as a diamond shaped UFO near a town. Speaker 2 Called Huffman in Texas. Speaker 1 And they say that it emits intense heat and radiation, causing all three of them to suffer burns and hair loss and symptoms consistent with radiation poisoning. But here's the interesting part. They claimed that the craft was being escorted by like 20 military helicopters. And the case becomes super famous because it's one of the few UFO encounters with documented medical evidence. And in 1988, NSA documents revealed something wild put offs. Remote viewing team at Stanford Research Institute had been discussing this case during their meetings and who else was involved. Speaker 2 Jacques Vallet. Speaker 1 So the same people running America's psychic spy programs are also quietly digging into these fringe, crazy UFO cases. And this is what sets the stage for everything that comes next. In the 1990s, Put Off becomes a major player in the billionaire Robert Bigelow's National Institute for Discovery Science. This is the group investigating Skinwalker. Speaker 2 Ranch in Utah. Speaker 1 The ranch was already famous for. Speaker 2 UFO sightings and. Speaker 1 Poltergeist events and cattle mutilations. So Bigelow buys the property specifically to study whatever is going. Speaker 2 On there so. Speaker 1 Put Off teams up with Jacques Valet and together they explore the idea that the ranch might have some type of energy. Speaker 2 System or maybe? Speaker 1 This is just a point in the geography where something strange happens, maybe a portal or like a spot where normal physics just kind of glitches. Speaker 2 Out just enough for. Speaker 1 Interdimensional beings to show up. But even with all the advanced sensors and the non-stop surveillance and the excellent scientific work, the group can't get a solid, undeniable piece. Speaker 2 Of evidence for any of this but. Speaker 1 The research ends up doing. Speaker 2 Something unexpected. Speaker 1 It puts how put off on the Pentagon's radar, and that connection leads directly to the most important government UFO program since Project Blue Book. Declassified Videos and the Five Observables And that's ASAP. And a tip. So in 2007, Senator Harry Reid secured 22 million in funding for a classified Pentagon program called the Advanced Aerospace Weapon System and Applications Program. Speaker 2 The. Speaker 1 Contract was given to Bigelow. Speaker 2 Aerospace and put off comes. Speaker 1 In as a senior advisor and contractor, Ossap's official mission is to study. Speaker 2 Advanced Aerospace. Speaker 1 Threats. But in reality, it's also digging into UFOs and paranormal events and just these exotic sort of fringe concepts of physics put off. Was able to Commission unclassified research papers from experts around the world. Speaker 2 On things like. Speaker 1 Invisibility and cloaking technology and traversable wormholes and stargates and warp Dr. theories and ways to bend space-time. Speaker 2 To access other dimensions and. Speaker 1 Advanced propulsion ideas that are based off of the zero point energy theory. But when Ausapp's funding ended in 2012, the. Speaker 2 Program was shut down. Speaker 1 However, the Pentagon was still interested. Speaker 2 In this phenomenon so. Speaker 1 A smaller, more classified effort began and this is called the Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program or a TIP, and this is controlled by none other than intelligence officers. Speaker 2 Lou Elizondo. Speaker 1 Put Off remains involved as a contractor working with Elizondo to brief government officials about ongoing UAP encounters and how. Speaker 2 They could potentially be a threat to national security. Speaker 1 And according to Elizondo, Put Off is instrumental in developing what he calls the five observables. Now, these are basically things that help a person identify true UAP behavior versus just. Speaker 2 Military craft or? Speaker 1 Some type of. Speaker 2 Aberration with light or you. Speaker 1 Know just like a weather balloon. And these things include one lifting off the ground using anti gravity, 2 sudden and instantaneous acceleration, 3 hypersonic velocity without signatures, 4 low observability or cloaking, and five trans medium travel. Basically meaning the craft can seamlessly travel through air and water and space seemingly without being affected. But then in 2017 everything changes. Put off helps Co found the to the stars. Speaker 2 Academy alongside Tom Delong. Speaker 1 Of Blink 182 fame, whistleblower Lou Elizondo, Skunkworks aerospace director Steve Justice, CIA veteran Jim Semivan, former Defense Department official Chris Mellon, and even Stanford University immunologist and geneticist Gary Nolan. Although he's not formally listed as a founder, he is credited as being instrumental during the startup and. Speaker 2 Obviously an insane line up of people. Speaker 1 And the goal is very simple, but not easy. They want to bring forward the UFO research that's been kept hidden from the public in an effort to use science to better understand what is actually happening. So through Lou Elizondo and Chris Mellon, the group brought forward declassified U Navy UFO videos and helped reporters understand the scale of the Pentagon's UAP investigation. And this culminates in maybe the most significant article ever on UFO research, December 2017, The New York Times article by Helen Cooper, Ralph Blumenthal and Leslie Keene. This is the report that exposes the Pentagon secret UFO program and puts official UAP footage in front of the public for the first time. And this is where we get the famous videos like the Tic Tac video or the Gimbal video or the Go Fast video. Speaker 2 Now. Speaker 1 It might be worth watching one if you haven't seen them, they're fascinating. Speaker 2 If you have seen them, it's you know. Speaker 1 These are like the the goal. Speaker 2 Cold star as far as you know, modern UAP research goes, so let's. Speaker 1 Roll one right here. This is the Navy gimbal video. Hey this. Speaker 6 Is a fucking color, bro. There's a whole we have a look on the AFA like I'm going against the wind. The winds are Hudson pointing out the West. Speaker 1 So that footage comes. Speaker 2 From Navy aircraft. Speaker 1 Looking at this object flying through the air, doing these insane rotations, moving in ways that they've never seen aircraft move before, and all of the operators on the. Speaker 2 Ship are basically like what is this thing we. Speaker 1 Can't. They can't believe what they're seeing? And the Go Fast video is also really interesting. Can we pull that one up? Speaker 6 Oh my God, dude. Speaker 1 So the videos are unexplainable. I mean This is why anytime I hear people say like oh man like how come UF OS only ever show up with like some toothless guy out in the middle of Mississippi and it's always some. Speaker 2 Guy been like I saw an alien sure that's I get it. Speaker 1 But also you have these videos from actual Navy pilots and some of the most qualified and trained personnel to ever take the skies looking. Speaker 2 At these objects saying. I don't know what this is now. Is it possible it's, you know, some type of technology from an adversary or from? Speaker 1 Some other country we've never seen before. Maybe I. Speaker 4 Kind of doubt it. Speaker 2 Is it possible that this is a psyop that's. Speaker 1 Released by the government to make people think that there's aliens possible. But all that to say, this footage is groundbreaking, and for the first time, the American public sees all this. Speaker 2 And they don't know what to make of it. Speaker 1 Now Put off provides the scientific analysis explaining how these objects display the exact characteristics that his team had been. Speaker 2 Studying for decades and they qualify under these five observables. Analyzing Exotic Meta-materials and Propulsion Claims They're looking at these crafts and they're moving with insane speed, doing these insane aerial maneuvers that can't be done by American, you know, even the most classified. Speaker 2 American Craft. Speaker 1 So the group also claims to have acquired meta materials allegedly from crashed UFOs, causing them to bring in scientists like Gary Nolan to do to do an analysis of these samples. The materials are said to have exotic properties layered in bismuth and magnesium zinc that allegedly become a lifting body when subjected to electromagnetic. Speaker 2 Radiation. Speaker 1 Now a lifting body is a structure that can generate lift not through wings or, you know, the traditional things you would see on an aircraft, the Bernoulli principle, but through its own shape or internal composition. And in this case, the claim is that the material itself could produce lift when. Speaker 4 It's energized. Speaker 1 Acting almost as like. Speaker 2 This piece of advanced propulsion. Speaker 1 What's up guys? We're going to take a break. Speaker 4 Really quick because you. Speaker 2 Know what time it is? It's time to level up, and Blue Chew just dropped something wild. OK, Blue Chew's been rocking with us from the beginning, so of course. Speaker 1 We have to rock pun. Speaker 2 Intended with them all right and what they've just done is change the game all right this is next level gold medal energy. 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But you know what, you guys can do whatever you want. Blue Chew is the ultimate service to get you these. Speaker 1 Chewables to your door. Speaker 2 In a discreet way. Speaker 1 To keep the bedroom. Speaker 2 On fire, we have a special deal for the listeners of this program. You're going to get 10% off your first month of Blue Chew. Speaker 1 Gold if you use the. Speaker 2 Code Gagnon, Gagnon. That's promo code Gagnon Gagnon. You can visit bluechew.com for more details and important safety information. And thank you so much to Blue Chew for keeping the lights on and making this show possible. Puthoff's Framework Shapes Government Investigations Now let's get back to it. But. Speaker 1 What happens next is wild. The To the Stars Academy didn't just get the story out there, they triggered a chain reaction that brought put offs 5 decades of research directly. Speaker 2 Into the public spotlight. Speaker 1 In September 2019, the Navy officially confirms the authenticity of these three videos and states that the objects in the footage display unexplained. Speaker 2 Aerial Phenomena. UAP. Speaker 1 And this is the first time since Project Blue Book that the government has officially acknowledged the unidentified objects are operating in restricted airspace with technology that can't be explained. Then in April of 2020, a year after confirming that the videos were real, the Pentagon officially released the Tic Tac Gimbal and Go Fast videos themselves, basically to clear up any. Speaker 2 Misconceptions by the public and. Speaker 1 At this point, the videos had already. Speaker 2 Been made public and confirmed. Speaker 1 To be real, but this was the government basically. Speaker 2 Saying like, all right, here's our official videos. Speaker 1 But behind the scenes, Put Off is working with a new generation of researchers to prepare for something much bigger. A highly detailed report to Congress about the entire scope of UAP encounters. And in June 2021, the Office of the Director of National Intelligence released the preliminary assessment. Speaker 2 Unidentified aerial phenomena. Speaker 1 This is the first official government UFO report since 1969, and this report confirms that military personnel have encountered at least 144 unexplained UAP incidents since 2004 and admits that most of these objects demonstrate technology beyond what the US is currently capable of. And more importantly, the report uses the exact framework put off help develop through a tip. Speaker 2 His five observables. Speaker 1 Became the government's official criteria for evaluating whether a sighting represents genuine, unknown technology. Then, in July of 2022, the Pentagon established the All Domain Anomaly Resolution Office, AKA Arrow, as the official government body responsible for tracking and cataloging and ultimately analyzing UAP reports from. Speaker 2 All the military branches. Speaker 1 Now this is the first permanent centralized UAP investigation program since Project Blue Book and Arrow immediately begins. Speaker 2 Using put off's methods. Speaker 1 In January 2023, Arrow released additional military footage showing these spherical objects moving at high speed through military training areas, displaying the same trans medium travel capabilities that put. Speaker 2 Off had been documenting. Speaker 1 But then something happens that brings everything full circle. In June of 2023, former intelligence officer David Grush goes public with maybe the most explosive UFO claims in history. Grush testifies before Congress that the US government had been operating secret crash retrieval programs for decades, and According to him, multiple non human craft have been recovered and reverse engineered. But here's the wild part again, Grush's testimony relies heavily on methods and frameworks that trace directly back. Speaker 2 To how put offs work. Speaker 1 Grush explicitly credits the work of. Speaker 2 Scientists like. How put? Speaker 1 Off as foundational to understanding the UAP phenomenon and the hearing makes it very clear that put offs research. Speaker 2 Isn't just curiosity or some? Speaker 1 Crazy guy that's looking. Speaker 2 Out in the stars. Speaker 1 It's actively informing current government investigations and shaping how officials think about the. Speaker 2 Phenomenon. Speaker 1 Then, in November 2023, Arrow releases its first comprehensive historical review of government UAP programs, documenting the direct lineage from Project Blue Book through Stargate to. Speaker 2 ASAP and ATIP. Speaker 1 So for the first time, the government acknowledges that UAP research never actually stopped, it just kind of changed names and personnel. Speaker 2 Slightly and just. Speaker 1 Sort of changed the form. Speaker 2 Of how it was working. Speaker 1 And finally, in 2024, Arrow began investigating reports of UAP that appear to demonstrate what they say is non local consciousness effects, essentially acknowledging that some encounters might involve telepathic or psychic elements or remote viewing. All these things, that would be you. Speaker 2 Know non local consciousness. Speaker 1 Now this represents the complete convergence of put offs 2 main research interests remote viewing and the UF OS connection to psychic abilities. Just as he and Jack Filet theorized 50 years before now, today at. Speaker 2 89 years old. Speaker 1 Put off continues to serve. Speaker 2 As a scientific advisor to various government agencies and private organizations investigating these unidentified anomalous phenomena, but. Speaker 1 More importantly, his approach to studying the phenomena has become the governments official methodology. Arrow uses remote sensing technologies created during project stargate. Military analysts look at UAP reports using the five observables that put. Speaker 2 Off put out and was developed. Speaker 1 Through a tip and physicists are trying to study these strange exotic propulsion concepts that originated with put offs, original 0 point energy research, the same theories about consciousness and reality that got put off. Interested in Scientology? Speaker 2 Originally in 1969. Speaker 1 Are now being seriously discussed in Pentagon briefings and Congressional hearings. Speaker 2 So. Speaker 1 From Scientology to Stanford, from remote viewing to 0 point Energy, from Skinwalker Ranch to Pentagon briefings. Hal. Speaker 2 Puthoff has spent. Speaker 1 5 decades exploring this phenomena. Speaker 2 But. Speaker 1 Here's what's really remarkable. He wasn't working alone. He was a part of a direct lineage that stretches from. Speaker 2 America's first official. Speaker 1 UFO programs to today's UAP. Speaker 2 Investigations. So when? Speaker 1 Project Blue Book ended in. Speaker 2 December 69, it didn't. Speaker 1 Kill government interests in the unexplained. Speaker 2 It just kind. Speaker 1 Of put it more. Speaker 2 Underground more classified. Speaker 1 The same people, the same theories, They all continued through secret psychic programs. Speaker 2 From Blue Book to Stargate, from Ausap to a tip. Speaker 1 And all the way to today's UAP programs and maybe programs we've never heard of. It's the same people passing the same theories and the same research. Speaker 2 Just through different places. Speaker 1 So whether he's right? Speaker 2 Or he's wrong. How? Speaker 1 Put off didn't study the impossible, he kept it alive and ultimately passed on his research through government. Speaker 2 Channels when everyone else seemed to have moved on, he. Speaker 1 Built the bridge between the era when UFOs were officially dismissed and it's all crazy Hollywood stuff and into the era. Speaker 2 When they are officially acknowledged by senators, congressmen and women, and in some. Speaker 1 Cases potentially even the president, because sometimes the biggest breakthroughs come from scientists who refuse to let go of these questions that linger in their. Speaker 2 Mind and are. Speaker 1 Are willing to risk their reputation. Speaker 2 When no one else is and. Speaker 1 Sometimes the best way to keep studying something officially forbidden. Speaker 2 Is just to call it something else entirely. Speaker 1 And that is a brief overview of the life and. Speaker 2 Work of the scientist Hal put off. I mean fire like. Speaker 1 I think that is, I think Hal put off's. Speaker 2 Life and career is the. Speaker 1 Is like the best starting. Speaker 2 Point for someone that is. Speaker 1 Like a skeptic about. Speaker 2 UAP and you know, UFO stuff again, I'm not like the biggest like oh, aliens are coming landing in the water. Like I'm fascinated by it. I'm curious about it. Speaker 1 But if like sightings of. Speaker 2 Like, you know, kids in Zimbabwe or like, you know, some guys looking up at the stars, like in Chile or something isn't what's going to get you going. Speaker 1 Looking at declassified Navy documents. Speaker 2 Of these crafts doing crazy stuff that you can't explain, that has been officially acknowledged by the US government, by the New York Times, by people, leads, physicists and researchers from within. Speaker 1 The government, if they're all looking at it. Speaker 2 Being like hey this is weird. Speaker 1 It just it forces you to ask the question. Speaker 2 What is going on? Speaker 1 And maybe the answer is. Speaker 2 Oh it's a psyop from. Speaker 1 The government, Maybe it's. Speaker 2 Like, oh, there's like a weird aberration on their radar and they're picking up some, you know, bird that's flying, but the parallax makes it look like it's something else. Speaker 1 Or maybe these are interdimensional beings. Speaker 2 Coming from a different plane. Speaker 1 Who knows, but at the very least you got to ask. Speaker 2 What's going on? And. Speaker 1 There's. It seems like I don't. Speaker 2 Know I have friends that have like a a complete lack of curiosity in this field, specifically my friend Miles. Speaker 1 And there's just like, it's like, dude, look at these videos. Like what do you think's happening? Why? Like if this is able to. Speaker 2 Stump. Speaker 1 The most highly trained Navy pilots. Speaker 2 Like. Speaker 1 At the very least I can have the. Speaker 2 Humility to be like, yeah dude, I don't know what that is at. Speaker 1 The very least you got to just leave a little room for the. Speaker 2 Questioning again, I'm not saying it's not some type of government SIOP. Speaker 1 It could be, it could be a big diversion. Speaker 2 Eventually there's a World War breaking out and they're like, hey, there's aliens. Speaker 1 That's on the table, but I'm just saying you got to look at. Speaker 2 It and be like what is happening and why do they want us to see this? Maybe it's interdimensional? Speaker 1 Beings. Maybe it's all fake, but at the very least. Speaker 2 What is it? I don't know, Christos. Debating UFOs and the Future of UAP Research What do you think? Speaker 3 I said we should do a merry kill. Complete tap Lou Elizondo, Bob Lazar how put off as far as the discovery of interdimensional vehicles and humans possibly. Speaker 1 Well, that is a great point because Bob. Speaker 2 Lazar is ultimately. Speaker 1 Brought. Speaker 2 Into this because Dave Grush is going before Congress saying. Speaker 1 Hey, we've recovered Craft. I'm. Speaker 2 Pretty sure. Speaker 1 Dave Grush's exact quote. Speaker 2 Is that there are non human biologics and he says some of the crash. Speaker 1 Retrievals are archaeological digs. Speaker 2 Essentially meaning some of these crash retrievals are ancient. Like this is not a crash retrieval from like 2024. This is maybe from the 1500s, maybe from 2000 years ago. That brings up a whole different can of worms. Yeah, crazy, right? Again, I don't know. Speaker 1 I also his relationship with. Speaker 2 Scientology is interesting. Speaker 1 I think he officially cut. Speaker 2 Off like I think to. Speaker 1 Public reports. Speaker 2 He was like, I'm no longer involved in Scientology as far as like the 70s, seventies go. Speaker 1 But it is a little ironic because I can see. Speaker 2 Based off of my understanding of Scientology now and kind of understanding their beliefs a little better, how it would attract a scientist. Because like the original versions of Dianetics was created by, you know, a former military guy who basically was implementing science into this sort of like therapeutic kind of research. So I could see how that would draw someone in that has a semi military background that's also interested in science. Speaker 3 For the record, how put Off is not involved with Church of Scientology and has not been for many decades. Speaker 1 Right. Yeah, I think in the 70s is when he. Speaker 2 Cut it off, but I might be off on that but. Speaker 1 It just, I don't know, it raises. Speaker 2 The question about is Bob Lazar all of a sudden vindicated because. Speaker 1 For years, people were like. Speaker 2 He's a quack. He's a, you know, CIA guy, da da da, whatever people called him. And then all sudden Dave Crush is like, no, the government's working on the stuff and Bob Lazar is like, yeah, I know. Speaker 1 I was working on one of the crafts. I was. I was deep in the guts of. Speaker 2 The sport model trying to figure out the zero point energy, Yeah. Speaker 1 Lou Elizondo, I don't know as well, but. Speaker 2 I would love to get him on the pod. Be great. I mean, how fun would that be? Lou, if you're watching, please join us in the campsite. But oh man, I don't know, I feel like. Speaker 1 How put off to? Speaker 2 Me is like top. Speaker 1 Because he's pushing the research. Speaker 2 Forward. He's consulted on so many different projects and his career span so many decades. I don't know enough about Lou Elizondo, but Bob Lazar is also standing on business, willing to go out there and put his business out there and be like, yeah, this is what I'm doing. But. Speaker 1 He's also. Speaker 2 Only touching a very specific scope of the research, which is reverse engineering one specific craft and one specific part of a specific craft. So it's so compartmentalized. Speaker 3 Let's let the viewers decide. Whoever gets more comments, this video or the Bob Lazar video that we did a couple weeks back, True wins. Speaker 2 Wins. What do they win? Speaker 3 The FMK competition that we're having a. Speaker 1 Date with Christos and. Speaker 3 An extra small T-shirt that we still have here at the camp. Speaker 1 The. Speaker 2 Only thing we have left. Speaker 1 In stock. Speaker 2 The extra small camp hoodie. Speaker 1 Yeah, I'm curious, what do you guys think if if you're? Speaker 2 Much more abreast, pun intended. I don't really know what the pun is there, but if you're more informed about all the all the happenings of UAP research, please let me know if there's anything I missed on how put off. Speaker 1 If there's a. Speaker 2 You know, if there's anything I got wrong, please let me know, but be be nice about it, OK? I'm trying my best. I'm trying to learn in real time with you guys right now. Speaker 1 And also, if there's anything that you didn't know or anything that blew your mind, please drop a comment. Speaker 2 I read all of them, YouTube, Spotify, all that. If you like history stuff and deep dives on history, great news. You can check out history. Speaker 1 Camp. Speaker 2 And if you just. Speaker 1 Like to rock with these sort of you. Speaker 2 Know miscellaneous deep dives and interviews with really interesting, smart people way smarter than I am that actually know what they're talking about. Well, this is the place for you, Camp Gagnon. Thank you guys so much if you want. Speaker 1 To come see me live and hang with other campers, other people that are like you come. Speaker 2 Check out my stand up on the road mark gagnonlive.com. Speaker 1 See all my tour dates and. Speaker 2 Come out to a show because when you come. Speaker 1 Out to a show and you hang with the people. For me at least, I feel more like myself. Speaker 2 You know, it's a it's a nice time. Speaker 1 So please join us all so you can. Speaker 2 Check out the Merch camp R&D. Speaker 1 And we'll be here, you know, every week, twice a week. And yeah, check us out. God bless you all. Thank you so much for tuning to another episode of. Speaker 2 Camp and I'll see you next time. Peace.