The Ridley Scott Movie Rankings and ‘The Dog Stars’

I'm Sean Fantasy and this is the big picture at Conversation show about Ridley Scott. Today on the show we're reviewing the dog stars, a searing biopic of Keanu Reeves' beloved alternative rock band. We're just kidding. We're talking about Ridley Scott's new movie, his 30th post-apocalyptic thriller, starring Jacob Alority, and we are ranking every single Ridley movie with our buddy Chris Ryan. We'll do it all plus the movie news right after this. Okay, bud. What's up? No, no laptop. Not for now. Maybe when we get to the rankings, but I do feel like I almost remember my rankings. I've committed that to memory. The big picture, it's just, it's second nature to me now. Wow. It comes that easily. And yet still questions about third chair. We don't have to get into that. I don't want to, I feel like we're giving it more oxygen by discussing it all the time. Who's we? Just like this podcast by talking about whether or not there's any, like I'm battling guys on all fronts. Did you feel that Bill threw his hat in the ring? What kind of hair? Okay, let's talk about some movie news. Very sad news, two, two very sad deaths, two 80 year old icons, figures that are very notable to, to our youths and the youths of many Dolly Parton, who passed away yesterday, as did the actor Tim Curry. And they both have a fascinating sort of like modestly scaled experience for me personally, but very impactful and very memorable. Dolly, how do you feel? Sad. I mean, and it is, it is a loss, not just to the country music world and to, to movies because she obviously had a huge impact both on and off screen. But, you know, not to the state of ten, not just to the state of Tennessee where I didn't grow up, but my family did and I have, I have bent Dollywood. I have, I have toured the, the museums. I have ridden the log flume. I know what it is to be in Gatlinburg, Tennessee. But like the world at large, she was just one of the last, a great good people, you know, always on the side of right. And so she'd obviously, she'd been sick for a while, she'd been canceling appearances for the last few months and like, you know, sending updates, but, but you could tell and so hopefully she is, you know, more a piece now. But it's, it was one of those where I felt like for the first 24 hours everyone reminded you of like, and another thing. And remember how she just paid for the Moderna vaccine. And like, you know, my child knows how to read because of Dolly Parton and all of these things are true. You know, that great M&M shared the letter that she wrote him when they were inducted into the rock and roll. Or he was inducted into the rock and roll. Did you see that? I love that. It was so lovely. Yeah. She just, she was sort of like, I'm not, I'm not no hip hop expert, but I know that you're the best. And I really just appreciate your light and everything that you're bringing to the heart. Yeah. That was the thing that jumped out of me. Obviously somebody and of, of, of vanishing amount of, of people who have the approval rating of, yeah, somebody like Dolly Parton, but I really thought it was cool. The, the way at which it seemed to impact the artistic community around her and the way like her peers and colleagues and the people who were inspired by her, everybody from like Sabrina Carpenter to Jack White to whatever have been reacting to it. I mean, obviously, just a huge loss. Yeah. And then in the world of movies, she made a real impact. She didn't start too many films. Really only this kind of 10 year period in the 80s and 90s where she was leading films like nine to five, best little warehouse in Texas, twice nominated for an Academy Award. Just last year, she received the Gene Hersholt humanitarian award for her work in part with children's education. She's helped deliver millions of books to kids around this country. So, uh, truly, truly an iconic figure, the rare decent mega celebrity. I feel like I know too much about celebrity culture at large now. And it's so frequently heartbreaking and didn't hear a single bad thing about Dolly Parton in my entire life. And I don't want you now nor do I. You're still reeling from what you've been out about Mark Walter. You thought he was just like, yeah, I thought he was, uh, the new Andrew Carnegie, you know, I thought I thought we could believe in him and build a country around his ideas. Um, you know, Tim Curry is sort of the opposite in that he was a famously very private man and wanted his legacy to be his roles on screen. And his roles on screen were huge and outrageous. Rocky Horror picture show legend, my beloved Colin go, my beloved clue for red October, October, it as if he was the original Pennywise and it, um, up at Treasure Island for the 90s kids and, you know, homelone to lost in New York, uh, who can forget? Who can forget? What is his credit card line? He's got one line delivered about the credit card, a totally memorable, but like an unmistakable screen presence, also a great and trained and skilled actor who performed on the West end for years and, um, was in many, many, many great theatrical production. Did he originate the role of Amadeus? I believe he did. I believe he did. In the, in the play that was then turned to no idea. I don't think so. I think that's, yeah, I think that's something that I learned after his passing. Okay. Yes. Um, and, you know, somebody who for me is in the wallpaper of movies, you know, who is somebody who is always a part of movies because I watched so many of these movies at such a critical age. Um, and I remember seeing him as darkness in legend at a young age, which is a real kind of gateway for me in terms of both fantasy and horror and, and freaking out when I saw what he really looked like out of the makeup and that being a real movie magic moment for me, but I just loved him as an actor. I thought he was always a ton of fun in movies. So he's a big loss as well. Um, let's, let's pivot to James Bond. Oh, sure. Okay. Okay. We've been intermittently covering this ongoing discussion about who's going to be the next James Bond. Just yesterday in page six, there was a report that the, the race to be cast as the next James Bond has been narrowed down to six men, which in, according to many people, means that's actually it's been widened from two to six because we weren't happy with our options. So who were the two in your mind? I had heard a lot of unsourced and scuttle butt that it was between calumternor and Jacobalority. Okay. And, and now we just have some more names. Those two men are still in the running, but no one has nailed it down yet. And then there was another, and then forgive me for not remembering where I read this, but another report that was about how it could be someone we don't, we don't know anything about. It would be like a wide casting call and I know plucked this guy out of like a Netflix series somewhere and it's going to be James Bond. Well, you know, I think it's fair to say that one of the names and the most surprising name that I saw was Jack Barton, who was another actor on Hartstopper, a show I don't watch, and who's working I'm less familiar with relative to the other five men who were up for this, which is Jack Loudon, calumternor, Jacobalority, Paul Mescal and Harris Dickinson. So, you know, those are five of the most well-known under 40 Irish British actors around. Right. Plus Jacobalority. Not Australian as well. And then in Australia, I think that that is material given the role and the history of who has played the role. We had an English Irish Australian bond before, right? So that wouldn't be shocking. Yeah. Any thought who you're rooting for. On a personal affection level, Jack Loudon, but also may have played himself out of the role by being so good as a spy on slow horses. Also, he is Mr. Darcy in the upcoming Netflix Pride and Pragidus. And I really honestly can't have Mr. Darcy also be James Bond. Like that's deeply that's too overwhelming. And at what point does like the, you know, continue on break? There's the man. I'm really battling myself here because on one hand, like his performance as River Cartwright is excellent. The next season of slow horses is fantastic. It's that's coming out in September. He actually is, you know, phenomenal in this season and gets to be paired off with Gary Oldman, quite a bit, which is a real delight. Part of me wants him to get Bond just to see if the social Ronan Bond villain thing happens because she has been probably advocating and campaigning for in someone of a tongue in cheekway. But it would be delicious if he were cast. I would prefer him to Mexico. I would prefer him to allorty. I'm like pretty okay. I'd be happy with Jack O'Connell. I think that would be. Well, yeah, he's not in the page six. Okay. Sorry. Yeah. He would be my pick just because as an actor. He's my favorite of those actors. I mean, we'll talk a little bit more about allorty when we get into the dog stars today. What just so on the overlapping breaking Amanda's base time continuum. Can you have Paul McCartney and or John Lennon also being James Bond? That's confusing. To me, he is not James Bond. That's Paul Mescol and Harris Dickinson. I'm just I'm just pointing it out. Yeah. Harris Dickinson. I think we know as an artist as a as a cineast. That that would seem like an odd casting. I do think he has the appropriate look and style that would be a pivot away from previous bonds, but still fit. And a second blonde bond. Yes. But it also even the different kind of blonde. Like it wouldn't be a replication of Craig who was sort of more shorter and stout and more powerful. Do you think this bond will wear barrel jeans? They can't I mean, they can't have any of these guys be modern bond, right? They have to do a retro. I wonder. It's an interesting question. But I mean, I'm open to it, I guess. Bond on hinge. Can we do a bond? running check for a second because we're going to talk more about the dog stars later in this episode. But I do want to check in now that we have recent evidence of Jacob Allordi running on screen to compare with recent evidence of Callum Turner running on screen for those of us who saw one night only. Not yet. Not yet. Not yet. Not yet. Not yet. So just to recap for you, Callum Turner, some work to do. It's not very ergonomic. It's sort of like a chicken dance situation when running. Yeah. And I would say that Jacob Allordi is more aerodynamic. He doesn't look silly while running around in the dog stars. Well, a couple things. One of the reasons why I'm intrigued by Jack Loudness because he just he seems height appropriate. Also, I'll say to your point about slow horses. You know, Pierroton was Remington Steel. Sure. Like there is a history of sort of like pre-auditioning for bond by showing that you can do components of the work. Sure. We're getting the job. So horses is a different interpretation of the work and that's components. He gets his ass kicked all the time. And you know, those are just like, oh shit, I did the wrong fix. It's going to be interesting to see how classical Vilnov wants to go with the storytelling. You know, does he want this to just be tuxedoed, shaken, not stirred or does he want it to be something even more modern than what Craig was able to pull off? I don't we're going to find out. But these three of these guys are really fucking tall. And did you say that like it's a bad thing? And like you're also not a tall person. Why are you? No, I'm not six five. I mean, that's and that's a lot to your loss. So I'm getting along just fine. But I would say my height is bond height. Oh, interesting. So now that I think I think six feet and I don't even know how tall brazen or connery or how tall those you would be a good 007 like practically speaking. No, I think I love to drink more teenies. Yeah. I don't really like international travel. That's not true. You do like gadgets. I guess sure do. Yeah. That would be my problem. They were trying to get in touch with you because there was a nuclear missile aimed at England. And you were like, oh, sorry, I was at an Austrian film. It would be not surprising if I were distracted from time spent with a glamorous woman by my work. That is something that, you know, has happened from time to time. So I can relate to that component, you know, sorry, wish I could lounge on the beach with you might hear with the, you know, insinuating name. I have to go hang out with you. Yeah. What about you? Do I think I'd be a good boss? No, I'm too short, apparently. I wasn't aware that there was such a narrow height range. The person who cares the least about bond. It's very true. It's very true. I am intrigued by this kind of thing. This is, this is, this is the fun of movie. I mean, I just want to go on record and say that I do not think Jacob Lourty or Harris Dickinson are too tall to be James Bond or anything else. They're not going to put this on 2028 though. No, I mean, they can't do it to us. Oh, just because that's too important a year. Yeah, it's just like that's because that's the vice year. We're going to go on Twitch for 365 days two years in 2020. Yeah, sure. Like stream. We'll just stream. You know, okay. I just saw a foreign film this morning. And one of the characters in the film was, you know, 30 year old woman laying in bed playing video games. And I was like, hot. Is this it the way? Like, is this, is this where maybe my 50s be defined by like acting like this? Acting like her or getting your wife to start playing video games. One up. Yeah. Okay. I mean, I know the film in question. And I wonder if there's anything else from that that you want to imitate and important to your own life. We'll get into that. Yeah. There's an evil too on some sort of gaming platform for people's entertainment. You want to do that? Yeah. Well, that's the key inspiration for Zach Kregger's film. That's why I've heard nothing about screenings, no communication whatsoever about this movie. I tried, looked into seeing if there were pre-sales available, not on sale. Okay. The film comes out in 21 days. That's fascinating. Considering where things are right now with Dune tickets and AMC zap crashing and Doomsday and all that. Exactly. And the anticipation. Yeah. I do feel like I saw, you know, a poster for it at the movie theater yesterday. There's a second trailer. They're they're they're marketing it, but it's not the same. I don't get it. Friendsy, but I think it's actually going to be quite big. Me too. Yeah. Because there's also going to be this wide gap between a very popular movie coming out. There's also just like across generations. Many men have reached out to me and been like, I like Resident Evil. That's beautiful. It's nice. You know, you guys didn't have anything to unite you. So it's good that you have this. Will you play it as really the question? Would you play Resident Evil 2 with us? What happens in Resident Evil? Tell me about it. Tell me about the world. Tell me. Well, it's the film or the video games. The video game. You're asking me to play a video game. Tell me. What if you get to play as a woman named Claire? Who arrives in a city called Recruiting a woman. I or a, uh, Claire with an IREI. Yeah. Okay. Uh, and, um, I can't remember a lot of the the vagaries of her character, but you have to solve character development. It's a zombie. It's a zombie apocalypse game. Survival. First person shooter game. Okay. Um, one of the reasons why video games are so popular is that you get to project your own stuff onto the characters, because you're playing as them. So it would be for you, you know, whatever you're going through that day. You're Claire. Okay. Uh, what time of day would we be doing this? I don't know. You want me to make a command that I'm asking the question? I will come over at midnight on a two day. Yeah. That's a good idea. I'm interested, but I don't want to be on Twitch. Um, speaking of things I don't want. Okay. Ryan Gosling. Mm hmm. Reportedly is developing a Flintstones spin-off movie centered on the character Bam Bam. Mm hmm. Who I guess is Barney and Betty's son. I've seen the Flintstones many times. Yeah. He has very, very blonde hair like white blonde hair. And he has, he has like a club that he uses as a baseball bat. Yeah. Is there any way in this world where this is saber rattling to Mattel and Warner Brothers to make the Barbie deal? And he's like, if you guys don't do this soon, I'm just going to go be a Flintstone and then I can't be Ken, you know. Um, I think that's a very generous interpretation. Yes. Um, otherwise my king is dead. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. My interpretation was like, is he somehow going to make this into a prequel for Barbie and connect to the various universes? Because if you think about the character of Bam Bam and the character of Ken has interpreted by Ryan Gosling, not that different. Well, that's what I'm wondering. Yeah. I mean, like, is it basically like, I'll just take my money and go over here then. It's certainly possible. Um, it just said that the film is he's developing the film with his production company. It did not say that he would be starring as Bam Bam. I think that's not notable. That's true. I do think Bam Bam in this development is meant to be the teenage Bam Bam who we see in later season. There's like a spin off Flintstones animated show. I spent some time reading into the Hanabar Barbarra lore of the other day. This, I, this made me want to kill myself. So I just want to, I was trying to find ways out of this feeling by reading more about these cartoons. Somehow loop this in with end of Oak Street. Sure. Yeah. Bam Bam is introduced in 1982. Yeah. Maybe he gets flashed into that period of time in history. That's possible. I don't know. I, you know, the Gosling thing is, it's, it's, it's, it's devolving. Yeah. That's what I'll say. And I hope this gets figured out soon. And he's cast as a violent assassin. A broken man boy. A motor cycle racer who, you know, is going through a hard divorce. That's what I need next from Ryan. Um, let's save this last bit. Sure to discuss as we go through the Ridley experience. Any other news you want to get off your chest and the other personal announcements. Oh, hey, thanks to the folks in American cinema tech. For all three of us, we, we, we, we shared films this week with fans during that. You, you guys were at the Losfield Street last night. And it was born identity last night. We were at, um, at the arrow on Wednesday night. No, on Tuesday night, we had a great time showing out of sight, which was wonderful. You know what, what's really good? Born identity. Oh, I thought you were going to say at a site. Also really, really good. Good films. Yeah. And, and seems like we both had really nice rockest audiences and a lot of people who hadn't seen the film. I know that was very, very exciting. And I talked to a couple people, um, on the way out, who were there for the first time. And they were just like, Hey, that ruled. Yeah. Yeah. Really good. Pretty exciting. So please, please, please about that. Yeah. You think these things that are that we talk about all the time that we feel like are endemic to the shows that we've been making for a really long time or universe land understood, but you know what? Well, it's like what you're talking about with Matt Johnson where he was just like these people under 25, they're essentially driving the survival and revival of movie houses. Yeah. They don't necessarily up on all the born movies. Of course not. Yeah. And what should, where should they go next after identity? I think they ultimatum or not being sorry, supremacy. Okay. That's number two. Uh, well, it's also like very key to the first film. I thought you were going to say your sexual awakening given Joan Allen's performance. Yes, that's right. Um, okay. Let's talk about Ridley Scott and the dog stars. So it sounds like an Australian pub band. So this movie is based on a novel written by Peter Heller. The screenplay is adapted by Mark L. Smith, a very seasoned screenwriter. Some notable heads of department coming in on this one that I cited to Chris last night Amanda that no Darryus Walzky shooting this movie two in a row now, not working with Ridley Scott. If you're working on many, many movies with Ridley over the years, David Fincher, alum Eric Messerschmitt, the Academy Award-winning DP is on this. Walzky shot Resident Evil, which may be explained. why he isn't on this movie. This movie starts Jacob Alority, Margaret Quali, Benedict Wong, Guy Pierce, Alison Janney, set after a devastating flu pan-- - And Josh Brolin. - And Josh Brolin. We'll get to him, don't worry, I know. - I just wanted to give him his credit. - Okay, so yeah, we'll get there, I promise you. Set after a devastating flu pandemic that is almost eradicated humanity, the film centers on Hague, a former civilian pilot and bangly, a hardened former Marine, as they confront outside threats and hold onto the possibility of a better life beyond where they currently live, which is in Colorado. - Yes. - Amanda. What did you think of the dog stars? - I mean, Yowza is what I think of it. It is many movies in one, which is not a compliment, but some of those movies are if not interesting, then at least soothing. I did think to myself about 30 minutes into this film, okay, so this is just a movie about Jacob Alority feeding his dog for two hours, which I'm not, not into. And I think that Jacob Alority is the right height to do that and to wear all the immaculate guys get either dogs, either one or the same thing. - Tough one for you. - I'm good, I just don't understand. - Don't ever get a dog. - Why did you reach? - He was gonna, that's good. I don't know if he's not even true, he's gonna bend down a lot. But he's, you know, he's limbered, that's good. - You got it. - All right, your back mobility is an important part of health and longevity, so he's working on it now. - Thank you, yeah. - You're like the doctor Becky for Pilates Moms. - I don't know whether that's really nice or the meanest thing you've ever seen. (laughing) - I think it means you've achieved your final four. - Thank you so much. Yeah, he looks great in the car heart. There's a immaculate sweat jacket that shows up at some point. - Okay, all right, I don't wanna talk too much about it. - Okay, and then I guess the plot starts. I'm just like, what's happening here? And it doesn't seem like anyone involved really has any of the pacing or the narrative beats laid down. It didn't look as bad as it could have. - You know, there are parts you didn't have. - But I think look beautiful. - It was shot in Italy, both devastatingly to me. - Well, I did say to you, I was like, you know what, this is the first time that Colorado's ever looked appealing to me. Spoiler alert, it was Italy. - It was talking to Chris yesterday. And I was like, well, you know what, I liked being in Colorado for two hours. That was nice. And he was like, sorry, bud, no shot in Italy. - I mean, they seem to have a delightful experience there. And they also shot a Chinchetta. Usually after we see a screening, then I know that we'll be talking about like days later, I'll try to like leave myself a voice memo as I drive home, usually from Westfield. And it's a long-ish drive. And so sometimes I can get lost and thought, this one I only had one sentence. Zach Bryan's, Kormack McCarthy's the road. (laughing) I think I actually summed it up quite well. - Yeah, that's good. - I agree with a lot of what Amanda said. However, it's been weird to see the Rotten Tomato score and the critical rejection of this movie. Because I'm like, it was bad, but it didn't suck. If that makes sense. - I pretty much agree with that. - Yes, it's not. It's unsuccessful. - But it's not incompetent. - Right. - Yeah, yes. And there are two times where we're like, why are you doing this? And I would have not done it. But the answer is pretty clear is that it's based on a novel. And so this is part of the plot. And they just, they made this. - There is one more particular sequence. - So that is new. - Which is the most audacious thing in the movie that is not in the novel. - Okay. - And that choice, I would say dramatically shifted my opinion of the movie. Because I was having what, it was sort of, the way you were describing, watching a Lordy do a lot of those things, sounded like ASMR, like visual ASMR. - Sure. - This movie has a kind of like, I just love this terrain. And I want to spend as much time as I can, as I can't explore it with aerial photography. - Right. - And there's some beautiful aerial photography. There's a lot of kind of quiet, contemplative moments with this sort of like sad, beautiful man who's lost his wife. - Right. - And it's figuring out how to live in this post-apocalyptic environment. It's narratively like dead on arrival. Like the movie has no energy or pace whatsoever. But it does look good and you've got very handsome actors. You've got this kind of like men's influencer energy of guys rip and tree stumps out of the ground and using cross-saws together. And it does have something that has like the most expensive, like outdoorsman YouTube video ever made of like, God's really pleasant watching him just like work on an old plane. - Or it's like, or fly the old plane or fish. - It's like Maga Terence Malik or something. Like there's just like something, like it's not. And so it looks kind of good. And you feel like you're watching a Hollywood movie. But as soon as, as you said that the plot engine starts grinding, you can feel like I've seen at least 10 post-apocalyptic thrillers that are way more interested in this. - Well, if the inversion of what a lot of those post-apocalyptic thrillers do, which is typically spend a lot of time explaining the factions that are out there and, you know, like the reapers are gonna come for you or whatever. And this is kind of like, that's all brushed aside. Like there are awareness or understanding the main two characters or "Alority who plays a guy named Hig" and "Josh Browin" who plays a guy named Bangley. - Yeah. - And they have like basically created a fortress at an airfield in Erie, Colorado. And they are like somewhat aware that there are bad guys out there who are kind of trying to come for their patch. - And it's sort of suggested in the movie before we see them that there might be like some zombie potential here. But they're really more just like kind of crazed survivors. - Yeah, it's takes place in 2035, I think, right? - I think that's right. - Well, that's, yes. - And so it's 10 years. I don't know when the apocalypse is supposed to have occurred, but I don't know, they've been doing this for a minute. And-- - And it's a pandemic or a novel as well, right? - I believe so, yeah. - No, I think that it's pre-spreaded. - It's 2012. - Oh, okay. - And so there's an awareness of these people, but it doesn't get bogged down in the ideology and/or state of the people who are coming from them. I will say, I randomly happened to watch one of those mega trailers where they cut together all the heads and different trailers. And I was struck by several things that are in the trailers that are not in the movie, including much more zombified-looking figures. So I don't know if that was in it at all. - I have a, once we get into spoilers, I have a follow-up question about that because it did feel there were some sort of visual faints or like clues in the movie that were never followed up on, and it did feel like things were chopped up, or that things just kind of didn't gel together. I mean, it is also a Ridley Scott movie, so we know that there's four hours that footage somewhere that Chris is gonna do a director's commentary for. - We could talk about his technical approach to making films and how that's impacted how these stories are told at some point. - Yeah, it just seems like he shoots a lot of footage with long scripts. And if he has an idea, he explores that idea really deeply and then they kind of figure it out in post. And that was clearly true in Napoleon. It was clearly true in Gladiator 2. It was a lot of the recent movies. - He's shooting with 10 cameras. Like he's not shooting scenes with intention. - But I think there's also like kind of a lack of feelty to hard story structure and script in terms of the execution of the movies, and you can feel like 'cause they're all kind of baggy now. And, or they all feel like they're missing something, and I did eventually rewatch the Napoleon directors cut, and I thought it improved upon the movie a little bit, but maybe not enough that it got to like an A-. Even though I think all three of us kind of had a fun time with that movie, it's entertaining, but it's not the mega success that it should be. And he's now going through all these kind of series of styles of films. This is yet another genre zone that he's never, he's never really hit a movie like this before. And so he's going down the list of stuff like this. And you know, they're just not as sharp. You know, they're not as sharp as the movies in the early 2000s. And certainly not those breakthrough movies in the late 70s and early 80s. But I still, I don't hate watching his movies. I really enjoy watching the movies. This feels like a case where both the script story and I think his general like truly unlocking of the world is working against it. I also think, I have some Jacob Alori questions. And I think we should talk about it. It's important of generally compared to what. Yeah. Well, I mean, he's very important to Amanda, right? She has grabbed him as one of her guys, right? Climbed him. She's climbed him. And not yet. I like to work in Frankenstein quite a bit. I thought he was a terrific Elvis in Priscilla. I think he's a talented actor. He's very effective in the first two seasons of Euphoria. The third one. I think the writing maybe failed him a little bit. I thought he was quite poor in this movie. And I think he is like really lacking a deeper register that if you can't connect to this character, then you're gonna have a hard time with this movie. And maybe that's the circumstances or the script or the way that the movie's being filmed with 10 cameras or what, but I just wasn't with him emotionally at all. And so that's a big drawback for the movie. I'll say this. There's a clip flying around about with Guy Pierce talking about making this movie. And he's like, well, you know, my work was really before. Really works very fast now. He's. shoots with many cameras so that rather than doing coverage and doing, you know, a master or two and then everybody's close-up coverage, there might be a camera on a hillside with a very long lens so that that's your close-up. But then there's also these three or four other cameras and he's essentially cutting between the cameras like a live TV director and assembling the movie as he goes along and he was like, so sometimes you don't know what camera you're playing to. And I was like, for Guy Pierce and Josh Brolin and Benedict Wong, that may not matter as much. - Right. - For maybe actors who are still developing their craft and what they're doing, I think that might have been complicated and there are times especially in the beginning of the movie where you just are like, you're putting this guy in an airplane hanger with Josh Brolin and having them do a two-person play and I think he actually has got something, I don't know what it is, but maybe not. Maybe not man with no name, Mystique. - Yeah. - Well, I don't disagree. The first 30 to 40 minutes of this movie, as I said, is him feeding a dog but it's also silent and it is him doing outdoorsy stuff and flying planes and being silent and being part of an image and for the most part, they are very beautiful images, it is a little ASMR, it does test how long I can watch Jacob already doing manly things without getting bored but at the same time it is very soothing. So I think he's great at being photographed which is part of being an actor and being part of a movie star. I don't disagree that once you have to get into the plot and especially the emotional motivation that he's not really selling his backstory but to be fair, the movie is not giving him much to work with, it's giving him, and if I can, do some light spoilers here, you know, ghost hologram wife who comes in and out and he just has to play the same scene of sitting in one room like looking sad and that is supposed to be the entire explanation of his past life and everything that he's lost. - He's a simple guy with simple needs. - Sure, he was a mechanic, you know, live in the dream. - Maybe this is in the book too but the characterization of his character and Margaret quality's character is so oversimplified and it feels like the new Hollywood and European cinema never happened. It's like this is just a purely good man whose wife died. - Right. - Who loves his dog and he's a mechanic and he likes to fix things and that's it. Like there is no depth, there's nothing he's done that he feels bad about. But one thing we see that he feels bad about like, is he a Broncosam, like, he's not a single personality trait. And on a more basic level, I think he's too young 'cause even as you're doing the timelines, okay, I mean, Jacob Lordy in real life is I think just turned 29 and I know that 'cause I was a little taken aback. But even then, if you're ranting him up to 34, then what, 10 years ago, he's 24, he's mayor. - What happens when the hunky guys that you dig are closer and age to your sons than you? - I don't like thinking about it. (laughing) And I just, I don't think that we need to. - Major, like, first time. (laughing) - Yeah, Frank O'Meam. - Yeah, I think what you said, I think what you both said is right, which is he's not given a ton of material to work with and he may be working in a way that is very different from say, the hyper meticulous Guillermo del Toro style, right? We're like, he is looking for every specificity and knows exactly what he wants. And like, I really was not a huge fan of that Frank O'Meam but I thought he was fantastic as the monster. And-- - Did you like him in "Sulper"? - Yeah, I think that's a fair, a more simple part but I think he was very good at it. - I thought that was an example of a director using what at that time he was very good at and photographing him in a very elegant way but also like emphasizing his skills and hiding any of his weaknesses. - I thought he was not as successful in "Mothering Heights". - I thought both he and Margarabi were Miss Cass. You see "Mothering Heights"? - I haven't actually yet. - It's okay. - It's yet another like, actually I kind of liked it from CR. - Yeah, okay. - Not unlike "Sulper" - Or material, it's right in that zone for you but we're on the front lines which will allow you to then pivot. - Of course, it's where I love to be. (laughing) - It's where I love to be. - But I wouldn't say that even in "Wothering Heights" there is a similar problem here where he's not, there's nothing, you're getting nothing from him in that. And so there's very little heat, there's very little. He's supposed to be longing and pining and this wild, untamable character and he's just kind of like, they are smirking. - What do you think? - I agree. - I was trying to put my finger on this. If really Scott had had his way and this movie could have been made at any time over the last 20 years, who do you think should have played that role? Like is that supposed to be Sam Rockwell? Is that supposed to be? - No, I do think it needs to be a more imposing physical presence. - Okay, so now his height is okay. - It doesn't have to be tall, but just a little more rugged, I guess. - I don't like, could Val Kilmer have done this part? - Sure. - I'm trying to think of what, it's like pretty but tough, right? - Yes. - Yeah, I have to say, this may seem like a superficial critique of the film, but I was distracted by his wardrobe. (laughing) - It's unreal. - It's Jacobi Lorde's wardrobe, right? - Yeah. - He's wearing like a big, like a big floppy scarf. Like, what do they call those? Besides scarves, like, but the way like the guys have like scarves that are like huge. - A giant, I don't know if they have a particular-- - Big scarf for a guy, that's totally fine. - Like a fio, what do you mean? - No, he's just wearing like a scarf that was popular like four years ago. - Like a Paschina? - Yeah, kind of. - But I don't think, I mean it's Paschina's, I don't think it is Paschina, but I know what you're saying. It's more about the Carhartt jacket and the Suede jacket and the jeans that fit just so, even though he's living desperately and sleeping on the ground every night. - I mean, he's got like, he's going full gorp gorg, like blackers, biplanes. - Are amazing. - Yeah, and it's true that all of the clothes are still in a macular condition and he does have, I mean, we are shown that he goes back to his pre-pandemic, excuse me, but it's, you know, right there at home. So he maybe does have access to a full closet, but I would agree the variety, the cut, the fit, and he is six five. So I don't think it's that easy to find jeans that fit that well. - Yeah, sure, and this one mechanic had everything tailored. - I mean, invested in quality pieces. When you do that, you can expect them to last you. - Honestly, true. - So there was a double Carhartt moment when he's visiting the men and nights one time. And then the Suede jacket, which I am assuming is Batega, because he has a, like a deal with Batega, but I don't know, anyway. - Well, it took me out of the moment. - I thought it was wonderful. - I'm sure you did, but much like. - Did it threaten you because you would like to be. - Nothing about him threatens me. - I'm a 48 year old man. - I don't walk around you like, I don't know. - I was just in all of it. - Carhartt, well fitting jeans, a vast layering. - I think he looks great. - You know, the color palette. - But it's there, it's in your lane. Like you're doing it the C.R. way, but it is similar. - But a character who had essentially been living off of like beef chili and carrots for 10 years. - Sure. - Fixing shit and living with Josh Brolin would not look like he was throwing fits. - I mean, he would be wearing one fucking coveralls and that's it. - I completely agree with you, and yet I didn't care. - I tripped out on the beef chili and the preparation of the beef chili. - Exactly, thank you so much and all he did. I guess he did brown the meat, but then he just poured something else in and he was like, "Congratulations, here's beef chili." - Yes, we're not shown this stew, so it may not be an appealing stew. - We may sound insane. - No, we may sound crazy. - But you're supposed to think about that. - No, there's time spent on this, these parts of the story. There's a lot of time spent with Jacobalordie not speaking wearing jackets. That's a big part of the film. There are other incidents that eventually do happen. We should talk about them. So, Jacobalordie's dog is killed during the film. - Yeah, and it's Josh Brolin's fault. - It's Josh Brolin's fault, because Josh Brolin is attempting to teach him a lesson by arriving at just the last minute to save his bacon when some survivors. - Because he's been hit his camp. - Slacking on a making sure he's not being followed back on his recon runs. - And Brolin, who is his partner in survival, and they have this munitions and chili tent together. - It's an airplane hanger. - It is an airplane, yes. Even but then, a lordy does sleep outside for watch purposes? - It's seemingly also he just enjoys that. - Okay, right, right, right, they underdeveloped the title until the end there. - Yeah, so. - When they're attached. - It's like the beef stew. - Jasper, his dog, takes a bullet and dies. And this sends him into a kind of existential despair and it leads him to leaving Yuri Colorado to go find chase a voice that he hears over the radio in grand junction. - Right. - He doesn't make it to grand junction quite, and he crash lands in the middle of a forest. Conveniently does not have his airplane destroyed landing in the middle of a forest. And he comes upon. - He's a mechanic. - I just mean in terms of not hitting a tree that was convenient to use. Yeah, he picked a meadow. He was going, yeah, and he did a job in that. I'm glad you approve. And he stumbles upon a small pie in your town style ranch. Well, no, he stumbles upon a magical donkey. That's true. He's one of magical donkeys, which he then follows. Time out, time out. He is almost trampled by a herd of CGI's. Yeah. Yeah. Really could have done about that. Really, really, really tough. That was one of the one we looked at each other like, oh no, but this is really, and that's like, I forgot about that. Thank you to Baboon. Yeah. Zoo from hell. It's really, we got to stop doing this. We really didn't need that either. No, it was just not necessary. I guess maybe to show that the one of the wings was somewhat damaged when he later fixes it in a tree. It's fine. We did need to do our bison. And so then he finds the magical donkey who also survived the bison stampede. Yes. And leads him back to this homestead. Yes, which features yet another perfectly quaffed and uniformed beautiful young actor in Marker quality. Yes. And who's the last thing she did before the apocalypse to see Boi Genius? And then she very much had that vibe. And her damned ornery father who almost blows Jacob Lordy's head off, he's played by Guy Pierce. Now, as soon as Guy Pierce showed up, I was like, oh, good, a real actor. Like no shots to Josh Brolin, who I love, but who I thought was kind of doing Josh Brolin, who was like, I'm just kind of redoing my cicareo character, which is something that I enjoy, but was total stick. But he's also like doing push-ups in between. Yeah, it's like there are many like revealing shots of his biceps. It's a lot. I know it's something that you enjoy. I enjoy it. But Pierce, who also I love. He's an intensity that's very important. But he brings something to the movie instantaneously where you're like, oh, okay, there's some stakes in this movie. People care. And he has an uneasy lack of trust for this man as all as people do of all outsiders there. But she naturally is drawn to this handsome 29 year old man in car heart and a slow romance begins to evolve. And I guess this is really where the plot starts a humming a bit. But I also felt like it never the story never really took off either because we don't know what anyone is really after. I guess we think he's trying to get to Grand Junction because there might be something there. But I find that so interesting because what happens when they eventually do go to Grand Junction in a narrow escape from this homestead is something that is an invention from the book. Apparently. And it's so funny because when I was watching the movie and the film takes this really hard turn and we are fully spoiling. We're now into the third act of this movie. I was watching the movie and the film has a kind of stylistic shift where, um, tonally and visually something has changed. It's moved from this kind of naturalistic homesteading adventure tale into something much more dystopian and absurd. And I was like, this is actually something in a great genre novel that you can do. Like you can just turn the page on a chapter and just shift the vibe pretty dramatically. Yeah. And you're like, I'm going with it, right? I'm in the middle of this story. I'm still in the lead character. Steve King does that a lot all the time, where it's like a story goes from being very net like, um, dream catcher is the number one version of that for me where you're like in the middle of that story. And then he just shows you what the the story is really about. And you're like, oh, okay, it's this. So I was willing to forgive it because I was like, well, this is the novel. And then I learned that it's not even in the novel. And I was like, so where did this idea even come from? How would you describe this sequence in the movie? Uh, it is, it's sort of like, well, I recently on vacation state at the TWA hotel at JFK airport, which is a like a refurbished hotel originally open in the 60s. Very like Jetson's mad, many type looking and the TWA hotel has preserved as much as they can about this experience. And then you get to watch plans, which if you have two sons is awesome. But so this was like the TWA hotel from hell, it does have it's a highly stylized. And to your point, you turned to me, Sean, as soon as we got there and said, well, how do they have power? Like very angrily because the internal logic of the movie is ruptured. Um, but so bright, like retro futuristic, um, very like eerie kind of, Wario, weirdo land, like something weird is going on in this space. There's something. Yeah. And this is by pale and darkened under the eyes. Right. And there's, you know, whether it's like steppery or robotic or something, there is just clearly like you're in some immediately presence, comfortable life. Yes. Yeah. And I guess it becomes clear that this is some sort of safe haven slash farm for a small colony of cannibals. And Alison Janie is the leader of former stewardess who has had a Stalinesque rise to power in this community. And it just like totally tilts the movie over and unmoored me from whatever story we were even trying to accomplish. And I don't even really know what the story was. Well, because I think that other than that whole sequence, which like you said, is, is at least not any published synopsis of the book. I haven't read dog stars. Uh, and, and seems to be a film invention from Mark Smith and, and really it's a slightly dull but legible movie about a guy who's very nervous to open himself back up to human connection because he's lost everything. He's lost his dog. His, his mentor is telling him that they can't let anyone on their homestead because everybody else is a roach. And we've got a good thing here where we defend what we have. And we can just keep going just two of us. And then he meets someone. But by meeting her, he's like, fuck, like, what if I lose you two? That's all like, yeah. And again, I still haven't let go. Yeah. Of my, yes. Yeah. But this whole thing with like, there's a, there's a grand junction thing. There's like a, and then there's also the weird cult. That's sort of the, the problem also of the second and third act is that it's not just following a Lordy. They're introducing a whole new narratives. And so it's like, you cut back for a long period of time to Brolin's homestead. And which is rated. And it's like technically pretty exciting. And, you know, it's a cool sequence. We feel like it's in a different movie. Yeah. Totally. And we like watching Ridley Scott, like blow things up and he clearly likes to do that as well. And it is also some like excitement in a movie that's been pretty laid back. But you don't have any explanation of who those people are. And it goes on for so long that then it's a narrative strain that isn't really totally played out. And then you dip to grand junction where a Lordy is not involved in that scene. He's just kind of standing there. That's for the most part. That's in the trailer that I watched. He already has like a different scene with Allison Janie. It's a combination of the turn you get in a lot of zombie horror movies, which is a) the place that we thought was paradise turns out to be hell and b) like, um, the, uh, these people have been like, we're not the first ones to come here. Like, that we think finds all these passwords from people who have tried to come to grand junction before and have obviously been killed for whatever reason. There's also, so when you first meet Guy Pierce, he has a very visible tattoo on his forearm that looks like the graffiti that's shown at the beginning of the film. And then when they show up in grand junction, he starts rolling up his sleeves in a very specific way. And I was like, oh, so are you, um, is there something here where you have a connection with one of the cold things and blah, blah, blah, but then you guys couldn't make it work and so you cut it out. I think that's, I think you may be right. Okay. That's really interesting. I didn't even agree with that. I mean, and I think it was just purposeful enough. And, uh, the behavior of grand junction is strange across the board. Guy Pierce is not acting like the way Guy Pierce has been acting for the rest of the movie. A Lorde is basically silent, quality is essentially silent. So it's just a very strange sequence. It goes on for quite a long time. In the book, apparently, they like touch down and take back off. It's essentially a trick where they, they're meant to just trip wire the plane as it's landing to try them there. And but he, he sniffs it out. Okay. And they take off and they say they never really properly land at grand junction. Yeah, but it's supposed to be like, oh, this place that I, I thought I wanted to go. I'm not going to go there. Yeah. So it's interesting that this has been inserted. Now one of the reasons why I think it's been inserted is because it's, it gives a Lorde's character a chance to be like a man of action where he's not really a man of action through a lot of the movie. And he's the one who helps them find their way out of grand junction in an exciting, you know, 30-second sequence. Right. But again, like, I think you're right that if you're reading the sort of character's emotional context of this is a guy who is having a hard time trusting anybody and letting anybody in because of the loss he's experienced, that makes sense in the sensitive drama about a man who's moved down to the middle of nowhere, not in a post-apocalyptic thriller. Yeah. And so that's kind of the challenge of the movie if like we really had to get down to it is, it's presenting as one thing and then trying to tell you it's another, but it's just not convincing enough to become another thing. And so it's just an odd movie. And it does feel to me a little bit like a lot of really Scott's movies in the last 10 years where there's some really interesting stuff. There's some really beautiful photography. Maybe you get one or two performances where you're like, God damn, God appears cooked. But they don't totally congeal. And like, I think if you receive them, the way that we received House of Gucci, which is like, what a romp. Sure. You'll have a nice time. They're all entertaining. Yeah. And they all look better than movies that have this level of preparation or we'll figure it out later. Normally do. Yeah. I think because he's such a problem because he's made so many movies. In recent years, I would say The decline of or his reliance on maybe fixing things in post or his CGI animals reliance on I'm shooting with 10 cameras and I think to your point about tempo earlier. Yeah, there's like a I think there's a cause and effect if you're if you're just kind of like Covering everything and getting two or three takes and moving on because you need to get to the next movie because you can't stop working Then it's like what is any scene? Like what are you trying to do? How do you build up to something? And that's something that like as you go through his filmography is 30 film from a filmography at this point Up until the last like seven years You would never say that about wordly Scott. You would say everything is so Composed composed and like it's it's every department working at the absolute peak of their powers and somebody who is Yeah, some of his movies are uneven and some are better than others, but you felt like a story telling Evan flow happening and like a real like old master at work I've for years on this show because we've covered really so much because he's been so active in the last seven or eight years I Always say that he's a real it's up to the script guy and if the script doesn't work and you go back and you look at the 90s and 2000s And you kind of choose like if you if he has a gladiator script It's gonna be a bang on classic and if he has like a G.I. Jane script It's maybe not gonna work as well. Yeah, and I feel like that's not true anymore. I feel like now Because of all of these changes in production style you're making. There's an LA Times interview with him this week And he was talking about how because of Scott free his production company is so busy. They develop their own material and he's like Talking dog stars was handed to him like here's the screenplay And he was like the last time I took a script from outside of our development was Martian Which is also his last great film. I was good his last classic. Yeah Yeah, it's funny. I mean we've now done both top five episodes and Hall of Fame episodes for him because he has released Five movies in the last five years and he's released 20 movies in the 21st century and he's 88 years old and He is not stopping. Yeah, the other piece of news is that he's developing yet another alien movie centered around Michael Fosbender's David character and He's gonna keep going and I see him in interviews and I'm like he seems like he's doing okay. Yeah, he's pretty sharp and As you say like this movie is in some ways extremely well-made like it certainly seems like it's made by grown-ups and there's quality Components to it right so He shouldn't stop by any means and you know one question that um I see online a lot is like how does really keep getting to make these 75 million hundred million hundred and fifty million dollar movies because he hasn't had a major major hit in a long time And one of the reasons I think is because of what you're describing which is that you know Scott free is this huge Business driver yeah in Hollywood that it's not just this production company that makes tons of television But he there's also a commercial house attached to it and he of course is One of the pioneers of the commercial director to author Pivot which we something we've talked about in previous episodes and he's responsible for some of the more memorable TV commercials of the 70s and 80s And so he is big business in Hollywood to this day even though he's 80 80 commands a lot of power So it's not shocking to me that he gets to keep making these movies but I don't do you think this is like shifting his legacy at all because we talk about like the Scorsese and Spielberg's and they do one every two or three or four years and Tarantino's whole bit about only making ten films because great filmmakers like Billy Wilder lost it when they got into their late 60s and 70s Do you think this is going to meaningfully impact how we think about him So we've been talking a lot in the last five years about Like a great director is like last great film and interpreting many of them you know, Coppola Spielberg Scorsese, etc Will this be the last one is this emission statement like is this how does this explain the other work and this is a swan song and all these sorts of things And I think they've really got he's clearly not doing that but he's also so far not doing away from doing that that I he maybe lets himself off the hook of the the last 10 we're never going to look at one of them and be like okay Now it's time for Ridley Scott, you know to really tell us what the last 50 years of men like he doesn't care What it's meant is just to keep working and we do have the original stuff and nothing is so Terrible in the last 10 years that I think it he hasn't as you said he seems like pretty with it He hasn't lost his curveball. He's just doing what he wants to do So it maybe changes what the final to how we'll write about the final chapter compared with some of those other directors And I think we as you know Sinophiles do have a tendency to lie in eyes like the last great work and he doesn't have one But also that's very in keeping with his career. Yeah, which is just putting up his shots. Yeah, it's true fromography is so chameleonic that it's hard for me to describe A map that he was following in the first place that he's somehow deviated from the the path, you know like I think he's Always been a grinder. He has been incredibly prolific throughout his career. He changes genres almost every movie He clearly has like images and ways he likes to see the world that he repeats and goes back to I would say that the thing that probably disappoints me about More or less the this decade of work is That you can start to see the seams and that you can start to see Not a cheapness but a speed at which he is working that I think he is actually cutting corners And so they even movies like Napoleon which You should at least be able to trust like the battle sequins are sequins are gonna be astonishing kind of look They look animated, you know, they mean like we're just fine and lots of movies have that feel But I don't really Scott movies don't have that feel. Yeah, I mean this was true in Exodus God's in King So I remember coming out of that movie and being like what? Yeah, is this really Scott and then the next year the Martian comes out So it's what he's one of those things where like I don't write him off ever And I think he's still capable of great fascinating visual ideas and you guys are right like he doesn't have some presumption of Autorship that so many of the other people who are like the heroes of this podcast do Because he's just such a grinder and also that he is working so routinely That as he gets older and as the technology changes but maybe his facility with it or hit the you know The teams that he's working with and their facility is evolving It's not as sharp as it used to be I just I asked that question to you both because the 30% rotten tomato score on this movie feels like a real like We can say fuck Ridley now like where it were more comfortable just like dunking on a movie like this Whereas I feel like it's I think it's a little worse Then house of Gucci and Napoleon and gladiator too, but not like that much And I don't even agree with you. You know what I mean? Like I think if this movie was directed by Francis Lawrence We'd be like that's pretty good Yeah, I mean like it would be it would have the same issues But if it wasn't like a Ridley Scott film and you were sitting down and like all right Blade Runner show me what you got now. I think if this was just like a work-a-day like director We would probably be like that was fine. Yeah, two and a half stars and it didn't quite hit, but yeah I'm glad I saw it. Yeah, yeah, which is kind of where I'm out with the movie right? So It's an unusual thing the idea of him making another alien movies really interesting to me too. I don't think it's gonna happen Well, why do you say that? Well, that was my reaction when I heard about alien covenant I'm like you just did per meet you so we're not done here. Yeah, he's 88 and he's making treasure island in November He says that any wants to make a bg's movie and he also wants to make a movie about an elephant I think this is something he got asked about I find Elephant I didn't hear about that. Yeah, is it going to be a real elephant? I don't know. Is it a bar I know it's like he's like oh, I was greatly moved by this story right about Africa Ridley Scott's bar would go so hard. Oh my god Would absolutely love that bar runner. Yeah But bar tried to tell if another elephant's an alien like the last emperor styled an ascended young king sure come on uh You also forgot the film about banking Which you're gonna start in I'm reading here. I'm reading from our Ridley Scott in an interview you interview with a British newspaper the times Scott revealed in an addition to a pirate film a western a World War one epic a bg's musical and a film about banking He also has a quote marvelous film about an African element and quote in development. Yes And then also another David movie for alien which I would welcome But I just I think it's some that is that's a lot of movies time is gonna come for everybody um Why don't you tell us about your banking movie script? I could never do it. I could never do better than margin call Yeah, what does he have any great unmade movies? He must have dozens. What are they? Look at this Let's look at his unrealized projects page because that's another fascinating component of this like He was one of the guys attached to neuromancer. Yeah, which is now finally coming to the screen on television Charlie good. It did look good um Calum Turner. I mean look at all of these films. Just look at the Wikipedia for his unrealized projects He's also one of the great yappers So in interviews who would be like and then I would love to make blackbeard's delayed Oh my god, you know, I mean he was attached to blood meridian. He was attached to Uh the passage he was attached to Red riding he was attached to several robin hood sequels. He was attached to the wolf of Wall Street at a certain point You know some of it is the yapping and some of it is just like scot free is big business so everything goes through them as well and like if they put their names on a movie like that or they option something and they're going to get a chance to do something big. It's such a big career and we've tried to put our arms around it multiple times and I still feel like I'm scratching the surface. I watched Kingdom of Heaven last night for the first time in a long time and I was like, "This is okay." And I don't want to hurt your feelings. Directly. Yeah. You're like, "This is okay." Orlando Bloom is terrible in the movie. It doesn't matter. It really does. He's the star of the movie. Damn. The foolest is in that movie. He's absolutely. I know. I know. My opinion of the classics has not really changed at all. And when I sit down to watch whatever his seven to twelve confirmed grade films, I feel the same way about Alien as I did when I was 19 and I feel the same way about Gladiators I did the day that I saw it, which is to say Alien is like five star masterpiece and Gladiators like a four star like that was fucking good. But it doesn't mean as much to me as it does to a lot of people. But some of the other stuff, like I didn't rewatch all the money in the world, for example. It's a movie that I think we often forget is a really movie, even though it came up on Monday's episode. I've only seen it once. Is that a movie that anyone needs to watch a second time? I've only seen it once as well. Same. And then they made the FX series. They're essentially about the same thing. That's trust. Yeah. Did Danny Boyle make that? Yes. Yes. Strange. He directed the first one at least. How did you think about going back and looking at his work for this discussion? Should be totally honest. I just knew that I was doing it with the two of you. I went back and rewatched the counselor, which was another movie that I have not watched. Every mother should. Yeah. I did, in fact, watch it while sitting next to my son who was home from school. So I'm mother of the year. That was pretty much it, because we have done so much Ridley stuff. And for whatever reason, whether it's other Hall of Fame's, a lot of these are pretty fresh in my memory. So the counselor, I hadn't seen in a while, wanted to give it its time of day. Yeah. Pretty great. Yeah. Yeah. We'll talk about, we'll talk about my big note, but I scanned through some of the turkeys because I was like, is there anything here that I, like, 1492 is terrible. So I went back and looked at, um, I done someone to watch over me. It's not turkey, but I checked that out recently for rewatchables. What else did I have to get my list out now, okay? You made it very far. You made it well over an hour before. Congratulations. You need to break out the laptop. I mean, should we dive into a proper ranking? Yeah. This episode of The Big Picture is brought to you by Amazon Prime. What pairs with the good comedy, the cozy blanket arriving with prime. What pairs with the nail-biting thriller, snacks arriving with prime. What pairs with the big game on prime video, that new couch arriving with prime. Whatever feeling you're after, prime helps bring it to life with great entertainment and fast shipping that delivers what the moment calls for. I'm streaming to fast shipping, it's on prime. As a reminder for you guys and for the listeners at home when we did the Hall of Fame, we landed on these films, Alien Blade Runner, Thelma and Louise, Black Hawk Down, Gladiator, Kingdom of Heaven, the Directors, Cut American Gangster, Prometheus, The Counselor, The Martian, to say the most controversial leave off was Match Stickman, a movie that has a cult controversial for you. I think just in general. That was the one that was sort of like the counselor's very divisive was talking to Jamie before we recorded. He gave it a go this morning. Like I don't know about this one. You know, it happens. There are divisive movies in the catalog. Did you get to the Rubin Blade scene? He said yes. Very well. Then I can't help you. The Diamonds. That's the one where he's like, the world where you made your mistakes and the one where those mistakes can be undone is not the same world. You are at the crossing. Wow. Get a fucking movie. You've lost Tony Scott and Kormick McCarthy now. Yeah. Yeah. Really sad. Any other mistakes you see here in this work? This 10 or 11 films that we talked about from that because in theory, you'd say, well, those films seem to be in the top 10. So a lot of the work here is going to be about 30 through 12. I think I, I think I basically have the same 10 here. I think I stand mostly. Yeah. Yeah, I have different order, but the same 10. And I think you can comfortably say five of these movies, this isn't in order. Is it? It's just chronological. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's the chronological world I just read. Yeah. I have those 10 movies in my course. In your personal top 10. I think. And I think the top five are widely considered, if not all time classics, truly great movies. You know, I put Alien Blade Runner and Thelma and Louise in like a kind of a class of their own. Yeah. I think many people would probably have gladiator in that conversation as well. Black Hawk Down was kind of kicked up again, Tarantino put that at the top of his 21st century list when he did his, I think a kind of a politically fraught movie, but yeah, stylistically and aesthetically like, like glowing. And then the other five, some of them are personal preference. Some of them are more accepted than Martian, one of the great crowd pleasers of the 21st century. Yeah. Can we ever talk about that for 25 for 25? I don't think so. You can. I like it. Yeah. It's wonderful. I like it a lot. I like it for Project Hill Mary, because I don't think I had in at least five years. And even the Martian, like watching it with 20, you know, with hindsight is a little shaggy in the Ridley Scott sort of way. It's like two and a half hours. Yeah. And they spend it. Yeah. Exactly. Which was interesting just because I don't think we received it that way at the time. We are just like, wow, remember a good old time at the movies, but it does predict sort of what's to come. Yeah. That's the stuff is kind of Tweet in retrospect, but I love her and Kristen Wei and all that stuff. That's one of those movies. I don't even know if I can articulate this. It's actually better to just watch 30 minutes of it when it happens to be on than it is to sit and watch the entire thing. Well, I think that brings up a challenge with a lot of his photography in general, and including his all-time classics, which is like, he's a great big screen director. He's one of the great canvas painters. That's his whole thing. So when you watch these movies at home, like me watching Kingdom of Heaven at home, even though it's on a beautiful 4K, it's not the same. It's never going to be as enveloping. No, but I will say, I was watching Thelma last night when I got home and I was like, it's fucking ridiculous how good this movie was. It looks. You watch the criterion. Yeah. Yeah. It's just as beautiful though. Yeah. You're just like, this is just like two ladies on the run. Like, it doesn't have to look like this. It's his, yeah. And that's the thing is, it's a beautiful, it's him doing a John Ford movie with those two actresses at the center. I, I don't know, anything else like pop out that you're like, we're missing something here before we start kind of getting into the New Yorkity of it. In the top 10 or whatever in that in that top zone. No, I think kind of the medium zone is what's going to be the trickiest. Like what do we, what do we want to give credit to and what do we want to put kind of in just like the silly Ridley tier because everything else you are to the Martian point kind of picking for like the magical 30 minutes, or the magical achievement of, you know, how it looks or a great performance or just the audaciousness of, um, yeah, you get insults like a windshield. A lot of, uh, personal preferences. Yeah. Yeah. To me, when I was thinking about it, I feel like both white squal and black rain have shooters. You know, those are movies that like people are huge fans of those movies for the, they're never huge movies for me personally. So I don't feel like I need to defend them when we're having a conversation like this. But if you were like my number nine is black rain, I would get it super stylish movie. Yeah. Would it be in your personal top 10? No. Okay. Let's do. I mean, what's this worst movie? Let's, let's, let's, let's just start at 30. I had 1492 there. Exodus Gods and Kings is also pretty tough. It is pretty good. Just going to, just going to put that there. I, you know, it can be 29. It can be 29, it doesn't have to be 30. Excuse me. I just saw what you have at 29. And I think that you're going to need to reassess some stuff. Okay. You know, let's keep the audience at home engaged. Yes. Sure. Well, why would you like to share? So 1492 is the Turkey is, I'll say, I would say Exodus Gods and Kings, then 1492. Okay. Are 30 and 29 in some order. I had good. He had good. House of Gucci at 29, which I just think just, you've lost your joy of life. You know, perhaps, I'm sorry, Adam Driver, an eternal neck in the Swiss Alps, according to Italian Alps. Excuse me. Yeah. Like a pigeon. I just, I'm sure I was nice about it when we did it because I was just going insane at home or whatever. It was funny in the moment when they're having the weirdly violent sex on the office desk. And what is it? George Michael's faith starts playing for the wedding scene. I was pretty good. I had a nice time. I don't think it's 29. Okay. I think it's entertaining. I have not revisited it. It may be a while. Do I own it on 4K? I do. Okay. Good. I do. Got the whole stack. I got the whole Ridley collection. You're putting that over G.I. Jane. I like G.I. Jane. Don't you? Okay. I don't know. I think there are worse movies in every direction. That's not a woman who achieves it in a place where nobody expects her to do so. Yeah. Absolutely true. So true. You're right. Okay. So we're okay with 30, so 30 Exodus gods and kings 29, 1492, conquestive paradise starting to our depot. Okay. And a biopic of Christopher Columbus. A French guy. Yeah. Yeah. 28. Now, some people would say House of Gucci. We can keep talking through that. I would probably submit a good year which I was also going to absolutely not. Why did we? Did I rewatch this? Did we do a 2006 draft again? Possibly. A good year is good. I would. I will quit if good year is ahead of all the money in the world or is behind that. I would say they're comparable to me. - It's a beautiful, first of all. - Who? - What the fuck can get you? - Body snaps, I don't know how to do that. - I'm just like, okay. So you can appreciate the setting of a good year, but not House of Gucci. - I like the setting. - You don't like the people, like people are having a fun and House of Gucci. - And House of Gucci. - Tennis and makes wine. - Yeah. - With a million Coat-Yard, right? - I know, yeah. But it's just, it's kind of like sad and weirdly. - It's boring. - It's fun. - And House of Gucci, they're killing people. They're in Milan. They're fashion. Tom Ford shows up. Not really, but a version of them. - You're splitting hairs here, between two. - Okay. - I know unsuccessful moves. - It's funny, it's like, this is what happens in these rankings is that we all fucking be like assassinate one another about what's 29? And there's like 11, it's like, I don't give a shit. - I mean, that's gonna happen 'cause you and I are gonna start crying about alien covenant. I mean, it's gonna be like, whatever. - But like, I'm not, I'm not against that. I'm just not interested in it. - Right, right. - And I just, I don't really know why you need to be against House of Gucci. - On paper, a good year is very Amanda Cody. - You're not sitting in the garden in House of Gucci, just being Jeremy Irons, come on. - It's interesting 'cause, you know, provance where a good year is set is a very important place to you, but you're also a fashionista. - Right, so, so is Italy. I'm going next week, you know? Like I contained multitudes. - That's true, be careful. Don't break any laws in the Southern region. - It may not lie you out in here. No, I know. - No violence against him on camera. It'll be held against you in a court of law. - Why are we choosing between a good year and House of Gucci at 28? Why can't we also have, I don't think all the money in the world is that bad, but why can't we have that in the conversation? - I did, I put it in the conversation. I would honestly put G.I. Jane is not really for me, but that's fine. - Did you like dog stars more than G.I. Jane? - I guess G.I. Jane is more of like a whole movie, even if it's not a very good one. So, okay, dog stars. - They're all different sides of the same coin. You know, it's a Dungeons and Dragons die of interesting visual components and unsuccessful narratives. - Why are we talking about Gladiator too? - Well, 'cause I had Denzel. - Sure. - And I thought I think they hated it. - I think you didn't hate it. - I didn't hate it either, but it did have a lot of CGI animals. - I really did. You can listen to the pod that we did. I think you were on leave on that. - It was. - Yeah, yeah, but I went and saw it 10 in the morning by myself. - It's got big problems that start and end with Paul Maskel in my opinion, but. - I think that was unfair. That's my feedback on your podcast was, it's not Paul Maskel's fault. I root for him. - What a shock. - But can you have Paul McCartney and the glad and Maximus's son then also be James Bond? - That would be you. - I don't think that that was-- - The Amanda Triple Ground. - Yeah. - Why are we not asking it about whatever guy he played in "Normal People"? - "Normal People"? - Connell? Was that his name? - Connell. - Yeah. - There's some dismissive of television now. - No, I love "Normal People." I think that was great. Daisy Ager Jones, she's got the juice. I think Doc stars all the money in the world. For me, Robin Hood, a good year, GI Jane, and Legend are all in this zone. Like all of those movies are all in that like 27 to 22 zone. - I agree with that. - So. - I think I have. - And each one has something about it that I like, and that's maybe why I'm not as dismissive. And I get house of Gucci. I should add that to the list here. - I have a good year in Robin Hood at 18th and 19th personally. - Well, you have a beautiful heart. - You just love it so cool. - Yeah, and you have a beautiful heart. - And Chris, we saw Robin Hood together. - It was pretty cool. - It was not cool. - It's her eyes are just fucking in that movie. - And they start out in this so vividly. - We've had a few of these. Chris and I have had a few of these, right? Miami Vice the number one. - Sure. - That's the number one version where we went together. And I was like, I don't know about all that. And you were like, I have seen God. - Yeah. - And I was like, is this my best friend? Like, who is this person? - You're getting worried about this 'cause you're like, if we agree 99% of the time and the 1% is so upsetting for you, rather than it just being like 50, 50%. - No, it's only upsetting when you get on podcast and you're like, this movie changed me as a man when you're talking about 20/10s Robin Hood or stinks. - What were you talking about? - I'm like, I was there. - It's like a dirt. - She's so boring. - Do you care about Robin Hood, generally speaking? - Not really. - Did you see the death of Robin Hood? - No. - And did you see the news that the uprising will be a secret Robin Hood back door? - I did see that. - Yeah. - Sort of like what they were going to do with Tony, but that didn't do. - Right. - I mean, there's the end as he just say, and I'm Robin Hood. - There's a name, sir. And your Garfield singing, Robin Hood, little John Walker, that would get me in the theater. - Not getting the sense that's the tone of the film. - Yeah. - But it is from your guy Paul Greengrass. - And is it 'cause it's public domain, you can just throw a Robin Hood, I think? - I think we talked about that, didn't we? And when we talked about the death of Robin Hood, or we like, this is a story that you can just kind of keep doing and you don't have to license anything. Just like Mickey Mouse, who's also in the public domain. - It's just like Moses. - Yeah. - Right. - Damn, good point. - Nobody owns the IP for Moses. - Yeah. - That'd be cool if they were just like Anthony Tony. - Oh, it's not gonna be that. - I mean, he made actually the Scots and Kings, right? Okay, so let's put some numbers against these titles. I'm gonna just start throwing some ideas out. - How many times have you been to Perfoss? - He just said, let's put some numbers against these titles. I'm gonna start doing this. And then you were like, how many times have I been to Perfoss? I have. - Yeah, what do you like about it? - I've been one's and it was phenomenal. - Yeah. - It's truly one of the most magical places in the world. - It's a guy who's like, I'm tired of the rarries. I've inherited this state. - Yeah. - And then he gets in touch with the things that actually matter. - Right. It's under the Tuscan sign, but forgot. - For guys. - Yeah. - For wine boys. - Yeah. - You also do like wine. - Yeah, I do. - What's up with you and why right now? - I've been loving the rosé that they're serving at Covell. I'm like, I've been listening. - What do you know? - You've missed a lot. You had two kids. You missed a lot of developments on my side, you know? (laughing) I've been on some wine vacations with you. - Yeah, you as well. - Yeah, so that's true, but that would-- - In our early days in Los Angeles. - I know, and we all heard about the edibles in the Spanglish, right? But like, so, who's we all? - What about the young men and women who just started listening to this show four days ago? - You've told the Spanglish story on this podcast before we're afraid to say it. - Yeah. - Took it in edible with my wife. I did not really experience with it. I don't think we took the proper amount or two took too much. We went into a cave hole and we tried to watch Spanglish, and it seemed like it lasted six hours. And then my wife was like, I need to go walk outside. And I was like, I don't know if I'll ever find you again. (laughing) - Spanglish, not directed by Ridley Scott. Let's stay on track. Number 26, House of Gucci. - What's 28 and 27? - 27, I can't believe you're going to bash for a good year. My head hurts. We barely started this. - Do you want me to just be your girlfriend? - Is there anything you guys-- - No, is there anything I can't come out from Vermont? - No, it's Italian. - Did you say it was 18 a good year on your list? 18? - Yep. - And Robinhood's 19. I have a good year in Robinhood over dualists. - All the money in the world, 27. - What? - Wait, what? - Yeah. - Over the dualists? - Bro. - Listen. - What happened to you? - The dualists can be a little adult. - Yeah, I did. - The last time that we did this, I watched the dualists again. I was like, okay, it's good, but it's a little slow. It's it. All right, and now his mind is melting. - But over the good year. - A good year for the dualists? That's fucking, you should go to the head for that. - Are you kidding me? What kind of Ridley Scott fan are you? - What are you talking about? I just, I don't need, I watch the dualists once. It's like, take your driver's license test once and then you drive for the rest of your life. - Yeah, we don't have to fucking cliff like Thelma and Louise. Spoiler alert. - You went to rank 30 movies. You knew this was gonna happen. And if you guys, - Yeah, you came holding a fucking grenade and you pulled the pin. And you're like, let's fucking drop this thing in the middle of the room with a good year and Robinhood. - Oh, Robinhood is also over dualists on this list. - I've never seen dualists in a long time. I'm sure it's fine. - It's, it's excellent. - It looks kind of embarrassing. - Yeah. - All right, so we're missing number 28. Right now we have 30 Exodus Gods and Kings, 29 1492 Conquest of Paradise. - Do we have any Hannibal defenders here? - I have Hannibal. 14 at 922. - You know, it's, it's just not really in my interest that - His dog serves 28. - Sure. - All right, yeah. - I had it at 26, that's totally fine. - Yeah, and we're, and you had Gucci at 29 and we're moving it up at least to 26. - You know what, I feel like my list is getting a lot more scrutiny than your list. - I have a, I haven't made a list. - Yeah, I'm making it here with you right now. - So I did the work, but I'm getting criticized for it. - As always. - We've got 30 through 26. - Okay, all right. - 25 through 20. - I have, I'll do 20. Do a list, you can put it all as far up as you want for letterboxed. - 21. - Excuse me. - I'm dear to you. - Watch your mouth. - 21 G.I. Jane, 22 Hannibal. 23 Napoleon, 24 Gladiator, 2 and 25 legend. I'm not a big legend guy. - I'm not a legend person. - 25, I'll put letter to 25, that's good. - You know, if you put it any lower than that, one day after Tim Curry's death, you should also be sent to the Hague, but the film itself is, I think, quite dull. - Oh my god. Just give me another sentence. - Okay. - You know, do you want to play? - Another spoiler alert. - G.I. Jane. 24. Yeah, 24 for GIJ and seems good. Okay, and also mixing up a bit. There are some very interesting aesthetic things about that movie. I think to be more doing her absolute best. Vigo Mortensen, excellent in it. Where's Justin in that movie? Yes. I did rewatch it, I think, for our last conversation, and it felt like it was fine. All right. Okay, so this is where we start to get into Hannibal Robinhood Territory for me personally. We can do that. We can drop a good year in Robinhood down and move dualists up. Hannibal is a freak show, right? It's a very silly sequel that is significantly worse than its predecessor. I don't mind watching it. It's a diabolically toxic movie. I admire it for that. But yeah, it is quite gross and quite evil-seeming. As I said, it's just it's not my bad. Not your interest set, yeah. But that doesn't, if you want to, you know, advocate for it, that's fine. Well, the one in which his brain is being eaten on screen, yes. To me, the three Crow movies are not successful. So. Robinhood, good year, and body of lies. Now, I know body of lies is one of your fears. That's one where we've got a problem then. Well, I'm willing to broker with you. That's why I bring it up because I'm saying, I'm not letting Robinhood in a good year go much higher here because I don't care for them, because I know that you do have a place for body of lies. No one said anything about a body of, well, Sean did, but not me. Okay. Leonardo DiCaprio with the earpiece and his Nokia rolling around. No. No. Oscar Isaac. Once again, what we're talking about right now are Robinhood and a good year. Okay. Yeah. They can go down. 23 a good year, 22 Robinhood. How do we feel about that? I mean, I like a good year more than I like Robinhood, but. That's fine. That's fine. That's fine. Okay. I mean, they both think I know what we're talking about here. Italian Rosé, and I'm not there. The invitation is open to you. I want to actually think about ringing the kids to the home state near you. Okay. And then like combining a home state coval experience. Sure. So I could try this. It seems like a really relaxing wine bar. You're just sticking about this right now. No, on the drive here. Oh, okay. You were thinking about that on the drive here? Yeah. You know, you're about to go a little share of Italy for 10 days. When you're going to go to the wine, you're going to have Italian wine in Italy on your calendar. Okay. Number 21. I'm living out loud. You know, what is number 21? Let's say. So what's left that? Do you want to do more than someone to watch? I think it's Napoleon. Oh, yeah. We got to get Napoleon. I think Napoleon is. If we're doing the bottom third, what you just said that disrespectfully, but I think 21 is the right place for something that we enjoyed. I can neither confirm nor deny the PT Anderson wrote, rewrote the script for this movie, but all the things that we talked about in the episode that we thought were so funny in that screenplay and everything that Joaquin Phoenix is doing, which I think, I don't know if it saves the movie, but it at least like shields it from some of the jankiness of the classical historical drama stuff that you expect to be so buttoned up in a Ridley movie. It certainly feels like Paul Thomas Anderson's script when it is funny in that way. The lamb chop. Yeah. Yeah. And all the sex scenes and the way that he's characterized is this buffoonish guy. Okay. Okay. So Napoleon at 21. This is the hardest work, 20 to 10, in my opinion. I think this is. We're in someone to watch over me black rain. I agree. Last duel territory. Do you want to do my 10 to 20? Yeah. Let's hear it. My 10 to 20 covenant, 10. I don't know how I have this. So from 20 to 10. Okay. 20 idolists, Robin Hood, a good year. Someone to watch over me, black rain last duel. Okay. Mm-hmm. Matchstick men, white, squal, body of lies. I have American gangster at 11. I don't know. It was in the top 10. You plead covenant at 10. We didn't have that originally. And I have covenant at 10. Yeah. So I would say here we should do white, squal. No, we should do black rain. Someone to watch over me. White, squal, and last duel. Yep. I'm okay with that. Yep. That makes sense. Sure. Yes. I think we're actually. We have a lot more in common than we think. That's beautiful. And that we're like generally we have tears that are very similar with some exceptions. Yeah. We're getting a little caught up on a good year in Robin Hood, but like we're a lot closer. I just don't read meat. I just think she's after it. See our likes a good year since when. I've always liked that movie. I don't know why. You know, it's the only movie of his not available on Blu-ray. Interesting. Because it lives as a memory for me. Sure. Okay. So black rain, someone to watch over me, white, squal, and we said, what comes after that? Do you think you'd ever send your sons on the last duel? Yes. On a boating like yacht summer camp with Jeff Bridges as their only mentors? No. I don't. I don't really think I think they would need at least like one person per boy on a boat. I don't trust, you know, we need man-to-man coverage at least until they're 18. Let's play a little white squal game. Okay, Amanda. Okay. Scott Wolf or Jeremy Sisto? Oh, in 96. Scott Wolf. Yeah. Scott Wolf or Ryan Philippi? Scott Wolf. Scott Wolf or Balthazar Gettie? Balthazar Gettie. Yeah. Scott Wolf or Ethan Embrie? Or excuse me, Balthazar Gettie or Ethan Embrie? Balthazar Gettie. Balthazar Gettie or Zelge Co-Ivonic? Chris James Rephorn or Zelge Co-Ivonic? I think Ivonic. Okay. Yeah. Is there anything you want to say about black rain, someone to watch over me, white, squal, or the last duel? We spoke of the last duel on our flops draft. Yep. White, squal is just decent. A good example of he can take a 65 percent movie to an 75 percent movie just by by his like eye alone. This is one of his most famous bombs, actually, and this never came up in our flops draft, but this movie only made 10 million dollars, despite its story and exciting young cast and I think a setting and an idea. It's kind of a bummer of a movie. Yeah, but it's it has exciting components. Sure. But it really didn't work, which is kind of unusual, but he has a number of these over the years, I guess. Someone to watch over me, I've never really joined Bill's cult on that movie. I mean, almost exists outside of like the Ridley Scott Cannon. Yeah. If it was directed by, I don't know, Carl Franklin. John Madden, you would be like, yep, like it's just like a kind of good and atmospheric corny cop drama. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Black rain is super cool, yes, little problematic. It looks fucking incredible. It does. I don't think there is a single street in this movie that hasn't been hose down beforehand. Yes, it is a wedded pavement. Yeah. Yeah. Michael Mann asked crime overseas drama. Okay. So 16 through 11. Amanda, what are you saying? So and we're agreed that the top 10 from the Hall of Fame have to stay the top 10. Or do we want it? No, we can't. We can't have to. The key has changed. I would say that different films since we've done the top 10 have risen higher for me and some have dropped down. So how is Gladiator 2 not yet on the list? I think, yeah, we messed up. I think Gladiator 2's got to go somewhere maybe between. You're right. We're going to have to fix some of this. Do you want to put Gladiator 2 in front of? Is you think it's better than Napoleon? I don't. So you do think it's better than a good year? I think it's right in that zone. Okay. So put it between Napoleon and good year. So yeah, let's make 21 Gladiator 2. God, it's probably worse than that. Like, is Gladi, I don't know. Will you ever watch it again? Probably. But like, I don't wish for myself. Yeah. Like, not like a random lead of like, I just think Denzel's having them absolute blast. I think Fred Heckinger is having so much fun and Joseph Cohen, they're both there. Well, that that part of the movie is very entertaining and gaudy and silly and just kind of great off the rails Hollywood stuff that I really enjoy. It's like Peter Usenov was reborn. So I really dig that stuff. All the Paul Masco stuff I find very dull and I find those CGI animals. Upsetting. Very disappointing. Yeah. The shark stuff's kind of funny. Fill in the coliseum with water. Yeah. And I turned out that there was some truth to that that they did do some version of that back in the day. It's a cool idea. It's very not very well. The me. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, it's true. How you doing there guys? Everything going okay with resetting. Okay. I know we're this is this is hard work. This is really not easy. Okay. So now we're down to 15. Okay. So what we have. Covenant body of lies. From outside the top 10. Match dick man. I feel like duelist at 15 is respectable. Okay. And Hannibal. I like that. Oh, Hannibal's still there too. Yeah. So I think we put Hannibal down. Okay. My bad. No, we didn't. So I think Hannibal goes after Napoleon personally. At 19. Yeah. I'm good with that. That's fine with me. Let's put Hannibal at 19 and that makes the duelist fork. 15. Okay. You're gonna be okay with that? Yes. I thought my battle and I lost it's okay. Okay. I I think you should give the duels another look. Sure. I'm not trying to be a dick. I was like, I just happened I tell I'm being honest about how many like what movies I have returned to Kytel in period pieces undefeated unable to change his accent. So just some guy from Brooklyn showed up. I know body of lies has to go with 13 because I don't get it. Like I get I get why you like it as a line as prequel, but like I don't get it. Okay. Do you get it? This is I it's one of those things where I better understand Chris. Yeah. Yeah. Call him to David Ignitius. Uh-huh. There should look at this again. There are some things that I treasure as a as a way to to to feel closer to you idiots and body of lies is on the list. So I'm not gonna stand in the way. The first hour of this movie is incredible. Uh, the second hour. It's it's to me it's just Leo's spy game and it's yeah, you know, it's it's okay and in the second half of it I think lags a little bit. Russell Crowe is in at his insider weight and is acting from a backyard in Bethesda, Maryland. Mm-hmm. For most of the film. With a just with a Bluetooth headphone on. I mean, what do you want? What do you want from me? It's really true. And it's a perfect installation of what you want from a movie. We should get you a Bluetooth headset. We haven't really done enough comedy with that. Why? Like in general, I advocate for more props, but him with the Bluetooth. Let's, you know, many things are possible in this life. Has anyone ever asked you to appear in a film as an actor? No. Uh, I was hoping to be cast. Van and I put ourselves forward to play parts in Linus. Oh, yeah. Okay. Like two guys in a truck, we're like, guys, we're data entry. Yeah. Like and all the crazy shit is happening. So you, you don't want to play yourself. No, you want to be someone. You want to be like a easter egg. I feel like this is possible for you. It's cool. We're getting closer. Uh, we did a, we did a bit about it on the pod and we put up an Instagram clip and Michael Kelly, the great character actor, said, that's fucking funny. And then he's always all done. You liked it. All right. There you go. Wow. Okay. That's, that's, that's real forensic analysis. So I was unaware of this. I made aware. I see. People who have liked the watch clips on social media so far, we've got a list of two, Zoe Saldon, two famous people Zoe Saldon, yeah, Travis Kelsey. Yes. Okay. Anyone else I should, we should add to the list. I know. If I don't look at the, the, the likes generally. Yeah. So someone let you know about this. Kyle, let me know. Was it, did she call from a body of wise style? See or I have some news. Um, okay. There's two films that need to go at 12 and 11 given our list. Those films are alien covenant and match to. I think that's great. Okay. Alien covenant is 12, match to men is 11 agree. I like both equally. Exactly. Exactly. There are different kinds of movies. I did revisit alien covenant this week. And it is a, it is a, it's the male version of a bodice ripper. It's just like, yeah. Side by movie, the work fantasy shit of just like people's in innards being thrashed at every turn. Probably the greatest cast ever assembled that he then kills within 40 minutes of the film starting. Yeah. Which is a great trick. Something I always enjoy. And that leaves us with 10. Okay. And this is the 10 from the Hall of Fame. And now we have to order them. Okay. I can do it. I believe that alien is his crowning achievement. I think we're unanimous at the table. I start there. Okay. As saying, I think that's his best film. I think alien and Blade Runner. The two top two. Yeah. Would you want to make a case for Thelma Louise's number two? I think that's, there's a case. No. I mean, because it is a different register in alien and Blade Runner are so interwoven in terms of like the worlds that they're creating and living within science fiction and the kind of like paranoid doom, laden quality of those movies where Thelma Louise is very different. Yes. I mean, I think in terms of influence all three have their own like very significant lane. But I mean, alien for my money, the greatest sci-fi. And then Blade Runner just, you can't watch another movie or TV show or commercial for the next 40 years that imagines the future in any way without Blade Runner. So I do think, you know, the ending of Thelma and Louise and that final shot and not to mention everything about it and featuring two women in a movie that people wanted to see is important. So it's equally important, but three seems fine. Okay. I like Blade Runner is like kind of his brand after alien. No, you think we'll ever do Blade Runner on the rewatchables? I hope so. I think it's kind of undeniable and it's begging. I think also Bill would love, I think Bill would love like the idea of like, what's the right version of it and like all the production stuff. Great cast. Great cast to talk about the career. He also loves what's Sean Young. You love Sean. A Sean O'Harell Hannah. Yeah. Yeah. And oh my god, Joanna Cassidy. Also fantastic. Okay. Number four, I guess gladiator, right? Yeah, probably. Oh, I don't have, I don't have it anywhere or that. Okay. Let's talk about that. I thought I was the gladiator. Well, I like it. I think we're talking about some of my favorite movies here. So it's not a big deal for a gladiator. I had it at eight. Okay. Oh, okay. Do you have Kingdom of Heaven at five? I have Kingdom of Heaven at three. Okay. For my sins. I think I have a little rich for my blood. But I, I care about you and I want you to feel that I've been one to one. I think is better than gladiator. I haven't rewatched it in a while. I did see it. Not the director's cut, obviously, but I remember seeing it in theaters. It's terrible movie. And it was terrible. 2005. Yeah. I was in college and added 45 minutes to the cut. Yep. I guess every visited some of it. I, I mean, gladiator won the Oscar. You know, it's fun. I understand that we want to like be cool, but I don't know if you can be that cool. Taking some, some arrows in this episode. I just think she's really not over the idea that I'm drinking wine without her. I didn't know. I, I didn't vibe with it as much as I thought I would. And I didn't, I didn't participate in the, in the director's cut stuff. I thought I did. And I understand why it's improved upon the original, but it being a number four, I don't, but I thought I thought I thought gladiator would have been a concession at, at four from, from my perspective, like for just for my money personally, yeah, I would rather watch Black Hawk Down Prometheus or the counselor, like, and the Martian. I would rather watch all four of those movies. I, I, I think Prometheus is the best of the bunch. Amazing take. Well, amazing. Oh, sorry. This is great. Well, have two C sections than call me. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I didn't read, I didn't look at that again, though I've seen it at least four or five times. Yeah. I, I, like you've revisited the counselor that movie is extraordinary and worth noting a personal favorite of at least, probably also because it was such a tribute to his brother, right? tribute to his brother. Yeah. Yeah. I think he's also like, this is, this is sort of when my style of filmmaking works best is he did that in essentially like two weeks. Yeah. Well, he tells that story about the script came in. He's like, Cormus words are perfect rule, change nothing. And then within five days, the entire cast, which is one of the stariest cast of its time, you know, hit fast-bender Bardem, Cruz, Diaz, like all those actors down to people doing one scenes like Rosie Perez and Ruben Blades. Who's the diamond merchant? I thought that was Ruben Blades. No, Ruben Blades is like Bruno Gantz. Yeah, Bruno Gantz. He had the audacity to put Ruben Blades and Bruno Gantz in the same movie. I don't think the covenant can be number four. I don't have covenant number four. No, no, no, I mean, I don't think the counselor can be number four. Okay. I would go. It can be. So you're not a gladiator person either. This is so interesting. I think it's really good. Yeah. And I, I'm with you. Like, I really enjoyed it for stars. And it's not some like classics major type thing at all. I honestly just, I guess I'm not that much of a Russell Crowe person. And I think all of the buildings look really fake. And I just, it honestly has aged very poorly from a technical perspective. It makes me hype as fuck, but I don't think it's actually particularly profound film. You know, I mean, I think it's kind of like says what it does on the box. Strength and honor and all that. Wow. But I mean, also in the position of defending gladiator, I thought I was going to be the web blanket about this. It should be in the top five. Because I mean, one, so what's our audacious pick at four? Let's say gladiators five. What's four? I guess Prometheus. That's Prometheus or motion. I think Prometheus is a better movie than the Martian. I do as well. Let's put Prometheus. Okay. Yeah. Let's get freaky. Let's get freaky. Yeah. I like it. Um, and I will do, I would accept the counselor at sex if you want to get really, really, really weird with it. I think that Cameron Diaz is, you know, not good at acting in this movie, but that's okay. - You've never been more wrong in your life? - Well, let's, I'm sorry, let me rephrase that because what she does physically is forever. - I've never seen an actor achieve her goal more clearly. - That is true. I would say that I don't think Karen Diaz is good at line readings in this movie. - I think she. - She had an idea, she knew the text. - Yeah, that's okay. - And then that didn't quite job. - But it doesn't matter because she does the other things with such force. - What do you think of Hoppy or a Bardam in this film? - Well, listen, he was in his groove from Skyfall on. Just like, you know, he put on some hair and some crazy accent. - Did you guys watch him on Subway takes talking about his love of metal? - Yeah, it was fucking awesome. - It's just so good. He likes a lot of bad metal. - Yeah. - Like really bad. - He was like rock, he's back. (laughing) - And then did you-- - But I loved his passion. - And then did you see Penelope Cruz talking about how she just like, research reads medical texts at night? - This was one of the interview. I'm not the interview. The invite, like press junket things, where that's her Hoppy. It's just like, I don't have a degree, but I go home and I read like very thick medical texts about the nervous system. - That's awesome. - Wow. - I mean-- - So it's a learning people. - Yeah, what a life. - Much to admire. - Yeah. - I think they probably have a spirited marriage. What do you think? - I hope so. - Based on this film, yes. - So seven is going to be. - Martian? - I think Black Hawk down. - Oh, okay. - Sure, yeah, yes. - Yeah. - I rewatched it. There's a moment before the true Mayhem begins when the helicopters are loading up and the men are gearing up for the battle. - Give me Hendrix. - Stevie Ray Vaughn's cover of Voodoo Child Starts. And to me, that was cinema. - Like we are in this list already valuing imagery over message. - Say hello Ridley. - And exactly, and that's in the spirit of the man. There's no doubt some discomforting perspective on African identity and how their story should be told. And there's this weak faint towards the African perspective in the film that really undermines its goal because it's so one-dimensional. - Yeah. - And it can be read as an expression of this kind of jingoistic American power military propaganda against machine. I don't think that's what it intends to do. And mostly he veys that though there are some times where there's some glorifying going on that is not ideal. There's one particularly horrible Eric Banna moment at the end of the movie that I wish this was completely good out of the movie. - There's another issue. I mean, this this era from 2000 to 2010, you get some wishy washy actors and minerals. I mean, I do feel like every time we talk about movie, I'm like, well, Eric Banna is in it. - Yeah. - And boom. - And boom. - And there it goes. - Right, it's tough. - Are you also, is this like a Munich shot? You're gonna do it? - Yeah. - Wow. - When I rewatched that, I was like, this is a stone-cold masterpiece. - Well, I think that it is a stone-cold masterpiece except for the-- - A different performance here. - Yeah, I should switch roles. - Yeah. - What about his work in "This Is 40?" (laughs) - I think that's more interesting to-- - Pretty funny. - To bring it all full circle. - Yeah, pretty funny. - Mark L. Smith who wrote dog stars also wrote Eric Banna's Netflix series "Untamed" where he plays a forest ranger in "You Ascended." - I haven't seen it. - Okay. - Is it good? - Yeah, that's some real dog stars core. - I've gotten pretty into mountains in the last 24 months, like watching content about mountains. - My brother. - Yeah. - Join me and tell you where I am. - Come on, come out. - What mountains? - Well, did you watch the series "Dark Wizard?" - Yes, in full. - I don't know. - It's a climbing documentary. - You know, I haven't seen you all summer. - It's all Zack about it. - You know, like it. - It's the docu's drama about a Alex Honol, sort of main rival in "Free Soldiers" climbing. - Oh, cool. - Okay. - And what else did I watch? A lot of stuff like recommended if you liked this. - Okay, so a mayor-- - The Alps. - The Alps. - The Alps. - I know, and 10 years I'm telling you. - North American mountains, primarily? - The Alpenest is in Alp. - What's your favorite? - It's a national park. - I don't know. I don't think that do I have one? It's not just like not really my scene, but you do know that I love the American Southwest. So, I went back to New Mexico recently, and I thought the boomers were evil. - You gotta get into Utah. - The natural scenery and everything. Yeah, but-- - Arizona? - Mm, I don't know. - Do you know I find deeply moving and also really some nambulant when I want to go to bed? Ken Burns is National Parks. - Yeah. - Wonderful series. - Yeah. - Okay. - What about you, do you have a favorite national park? - I love Big Bend and Texas. - Never been. - Been to Yellowstone? - Is Shenandoah-- - I don't know if that's a national park. - Like what would be that area? - It might be. - Let's see, Shenandoah. I see you've closed the giant lap to-- - Is that not the Adirondance? - Yeah, Shenandoah. - In Virginia, okay. - It's beautiful. - Okay. - That's Blue Ridge, right? - Yeah, so now I'm googling Smokey Mountains. National Park. Oh, great Smokey Mountains. - National Park is, I guess, my answer in honor of-- - Did you go to another challenge? - An honor of the challenge? - Yeah, of course, all the time. That's where Dollywood and Knoxville's not that far from it. Chad and Nuga, Ruby Falls, Arches and Zion for you. - Zion was life-changing. I need to go back there, although I'm so much physically weaker than I was when I first went there. When I went there, I was probably the strongest I'm ever gonna be. - Don't underestimate yourself. I need to get back in the gym. We have 10 through 8 to do. - Okay. - So-- - What's left? - We need to put American gangster, Kingdom of Heaven and the Martian on the board. - I think it probably goes for the purposes of our podcast. I think we all know it's gonna go American gangster, no, Martian American gangster, Kingdom of Heaven? - No. - Hannah's American gangster, in my opinion. - I agree with that. - I think you miss under-- - Oh, you were on the list. - I think American gangster is better than the Martian. - Not you not. - Okay, so the Martian number eight, Kingdom of Heaven, nine, American gangster, 10. I think that's right. - You agree? - Yeah. - I know you won Kingdom of Heaven, iron. - That's okay. - What do you want to take out? You want to take Gladiator out, but Kingdom of Heaven in there? That's what you really want? - I mean, that's what I said. I think it's actually secretly a better film. And when I see secretly, according to me. - I mean, your strong point of view is part of what makes this such a special company. You know, I think this is not even joking. I don't know, man. What's your zany as the pinion here? What's something that you-- - And when you look at what we've done here in ranking these 30 films, which will probably be our last ever at least got episode, we will not need to speak about this. God willing, he lives another 20 years. - But we won't be ranked. - Okay. - Do you want 108? - We'll live this podcast. - Okay, so right now we're looking at May 20, 28. We've extended it. - We've pushed it 'cause of X-Men. - Cut of X-Men. - Cut of X-Men. - We got April will be Beatles. - No, you guys have to keep it going until he too. What are you talking about? - Oh, okay. So once he too. - No. - A late 28. - I told you that that's yours, that's yours and Bills. - Bill already claimed Chris for Heath. - I know, I heard about this. - Oh, he did. - Yeah. - To your face. - Yes. - Mm-hmm. - I see him a lot. I had started to remember everything he says. - I don't know what podcast it was but he was just like, "I know you're always on the big picture "and you got a lot of loyalty to those guys, "but for Heath to your mind." (laughing) - It's all right. Good to know. - So we don't have to wait for that. We can wrap it up with X-Men. - And then what are you guys gonna do? - Surf. - I'm gonna learn about the national parks. (laughing) - Lucrative. - I'm gonna move to Provence. - We'll have a winery. - Yeah, I talked to myself. - Sure, of course, my whole family. - I'm gonna move with Mary and Cotie Arts. - Yeah, that's what I was wondering. - That would be kind of weird if I left my family and moved to Provence. - If we as they do is waiting there. - Man. - So special. - Any X-A-N-E-Takes? Any top rope stuff you wanna do here at the end? - Don't we feel that most of the X-A-N-E-Takes are in the list. - Prometheus at four is a Zaggy, but in a way that I like. - Counselor at six, it's the most honest version of Ridley Scott. - So the conventional wisdom would be that matchtick men should be higher. I assume gangsters should be higher. Kingdom of heaven and counselors should probably be lower. - I think Prometheus and counselor are very divisive. Very divisive. You and I especially have always been into them. In fact, I don't know when we wrote about Ridley for GQ or Tony for GQ. - I thought we did Ridley for Grantland. - Maybe we did Ridley for GQ. - What was the first thing John was finding inside Hyde of each of these movies? - That's a good idea. - Yeah, and we did something similar about Fincher, but at Grant, at GQ we wrote something about Tony Scott. We were sort of like, it was when unstoppable was coming out and it was like, why doesn't anybody talk about Tony Scott? Tony Scott is one of the great otors. Let's revive him in a kind of a mainstream way, even though he was basically just kind of like, a fur hire or a good stop bowl and stuff. - Yeah, genre guy. And then we did a couple of different versions of that. We wrote about Ridley, was it on for Prometheus or was it for the counselors? - I think it might have been Prometheus 'cause that would track with like, when you had moved out here, we went and saw Prometheus at Sitarama. - With Andy. - Yeah. - So those two movies were always very big for us, but they were sort of similar to my Congo story earlier the week I'd read reviews and people would be like, Prometheus, one and a half stars. - Yeah, that was crazy. I don't really understand that. - But there's very few people I think would put it at four, even though we all like it for different and similar reasons. It's interesting that he has made three aliens. (laughing) - I never would have guessed that. - I mean, you're talking's like, mad that he doesn't get to make Blade Runner still and that he lost the rights to that. - Yeah, that is so interesting. All right, I'm gonna read the order. Is there anything else you wanna share? - Nope. - I think that I made my best efforts to revive good year on this spot. - You got to share your point of view, right? Did you feel that you got to do the same? - Absolutely. I'm still reeling on the mountains thing from the last 24 months. What about oceans near mountains? - That's really, oh wow. - Yeah. - I mean, I don't know anymore. - I don't know how whole thing she doesn't want the mountains 'cause she feels traps. - No, no, no, no, no, no, that's flat spaces. It's flat spaces that I don't like the planes. - Yeah, Montana. When you asked my favorite national park, I couldn't be anything in Montana because when I went to Montana, I was like where do you hide it? - Well, there's a lot of mountains in Montana too. - But, well, I was on the planes. I was in big sky country. And it was just like it went on forever and ever and ever. I like mountains. - Did you ever decide who you were hiding from? - I just, you never know. - But like, dog stars hiding, or. - Yeah. - Okay. Oh, it just, no, not like survivalist. It just, just like a very primal everyday, I wake up, and my job is to survive, you know? And I got to be standing, talking. - If you could be, if you could be a movie podcaster or a reclusive writer of mystery novels who lives on top of a mountain, what would you choose? - I have to be on a mountain. - No, well, it's funnier that way, but. - Well, I mean, it matters if I'm living by the ocean. - In this hypothetical scenario, what matters? - Yes, 'cause if I'm living by the ocean, and I'm writing mystery novels. - Never just get a straight answer, you know? - That seems great, but mountains. Eh, I picked this podcast, so there you go. - That's heartwarming. - That's nice. I altitude really fucks with you, or fucks with me anyway. - It takes more day, and then you're fine. - Yeah, but I don't know, I just, like, I like them, and I like beholding them. - Before dog stars started, I turned to a man, and I said, next year, or no, 2028, I go to Venice, you go to Telluride, and she got really tight, and like nervous, like anxious. - What we should do is make her go to like a drive-in movie theater festival in the middle of nowhere, where there are no hills, like, - In a black country. - In a black country. - Yeah. - Okay. Number 30 is Exodus Gods and Kings. Number 29 is 1492 Conquest of Paradise. 28, the dog stars, 27, all the money in the world. 26 House of Gucci, 25 legend, 24 GI Jane, 23 Robin Hood, 22, a good year, 21, Gladiator 2, 20 Napoleon, 19 Hannibal, 18 Black Rain, 17 Someone Watch Over Me, 16 White Squall, 15 The Last Dual, 14 The Dualists, 13 Body of Lies, 12 Alien Covenant, 11 Matchstick Men, 10 American Gangster, nine Kingdom of Heaven, eight The Martian, seven Black Hawk Down, six The Counselor, five Gladiator, four Prometheus, three Thelman Louise, two Blade Runner, and number one in the Red Ridley Scott, 30 Film, all time rankings from the big picture is Alien. - How you feeling? - I actually thought of another question I wanted to ask you about Jacob Lourdes clothes. - Go ahead. - Do you think that if the world functionally like society collapsed tomorrow, would you, if you were one of the survivors? - Yeah. - And had, let's say, pretty decent access to clothing. - Well, yeah. - Let me finish. - I'm sorry. - Do you think you would continue to iterate your style or do you think you would stick with the clothes that you were wearing and the style that you had the day the society collapsed? - Well, don't you think necessarily at some point, if you survive long enough, you do have to iterate because the clothing, the way cut of your jeans. - Well, at some point, if you're wearing the jeans and wearing them out to the extent that Jacob Lourdes is because he's doing manly stuff, like fishing and feeding dogs and sawing, then theoretically, because this is not a world that is producing new things, he has access to supplies because he has a plane and he actually still has weapons. - He could probably go to uniglo and Denver, but where else, it's like. - Right, but he can get some things, but he's gonna run out of, he's gonna run out of the supply of vintage Levi's that fit him specifically, right? Because I was thinking about like, okay, so that's a pretty long cut of jeans, right? First six, five, it's like a big and tall store situation. So he's gonna run out and I guess you have to iterate. Oh, but for me, oh, I'm sorry. Do you have somewhere to be? - I do. - Okay. - For me. - I just been checking my email here and continue. Where do you have to go? It's only my daughter's first day kindergarten, so you know. - Okay, anyway. (laughing) - No, I'm just kidding. I just wanted to know whether you think style is a function of like consumerism, or whether like you would have like, I think it's a function of consumerism and also a function of, to me it's an expression of itself, an expression, but I think that the ways in which I would want to express myself were I just surviving and trying to find a continuing contact supply. - Yeah. - Would change and I probably wouldn't need the reinvention on such a regular basis. - I would shop at Dick's Sporting Goods for the rest of my life. Thanks for joining the big picture. (laughing) - You guys done? Thanks to Jamie and Sarah for filling in. In Jack Sanders' absence, appreciate you guys. Thanks to Lucas Kavanaugh for his production support. So next week, I got one with you and I got one with you. - That's beautiful. - With you, we're previewing the fall film slate. I'm gonna tell you this right now. Here's what I'm thinking. - Yeah. - You choose five movies you can't wait to see. - Yes. - And then you choose three movies you think everyone should see that you've already seen. - Okay. - Sound good. - I can do that. - I'll do the same. - Beautiful. - You, we have something fun planned. - Very special. - We've seen the film on slot and it inspired an idea which I'm loosely calling the Black and Chrome Action Pack, which is a very specific kind of movie. I think the Terminator. - Mm-hmm. - That onslaught is paying homage to and that Chris and I will build a kind of tribute to a canon. - Should I still see Insidious for that pod? - I haven't seen it yet and I don't think that's necessary. We're gonna do a 10 movies we missed later in September. - Okay, Manic and see Insidious for a minute. - Yeah. - You know, I heard the jump scares are pretty good. - I'm not against seeing it. - Okay. - But I feel like our mission, which we have accepted already, will be more than enough. And soon you'll be disappearing. - Yeah, that's right. - Intent to the wilderness here. - I'm doing, I'm doing. - Like Jacob Allordie. - Yeah, I'm doing the fall preview. - So will you not be here for Resident Evil? - No, I'll be back. - I'll be back. - Okay. - But will she be on the Resident Evil podcast? - Oh. I'd like to see it, but we don't know anything about screenings. - Not a thing. - Yeah. - Until then. We'll see you next time. (upbeat music) (upbeat music)