The REAL Reason Billionaires are Building Bunkers | Bret Weinstein

Hey, guys, if you're not following me on Spotify, please hit that follow button and leave a five-star review. They're both a huge, huge help. Thank you. As you've laid out today, you've seen that in every facet throughout your relationship and have a great marriage all these years later. So it's worked out for you, but there's other people who will go through that and then maybe even for not bad reasons, realize, you know what, we're not meant for each other. Because this is not, you know, we got to some difficult point, whatever that is. And like, we couldn't agree on how to navigate that or how to handle that. And that doesn't bode well for the future. You're exactly right. And in fact, I would argue that you should seek the experiences together that will reveal how you handle this. You know, things like, you know, it's funny, tandem bicycles and tandem kayaks are known as divorce boats in the industry because they have caused more than a few divorces. But the point is, if you go rent a tandem bike together and then, you know, 10 miles later see how you feel, if you've managed to navigate that, it's actually a really good sign. And Heather and I get a ton of that stuff. Oh my God. We shared a tent in Madagascar. We, you know, headed off into Central America together with a car that we didn't intend to bring back just to see where it took us. You didn't intend to bring back? No, it was her stroller. No, no, no. Not like that. It was her first car was in bad shape. We tried to sell it to raise money for our trip, but we couldn't sell it because nobody wanted it. And so we decided to just take it to Central America and figure out how far we get. There's probably still out there, you know, the beauty of Central America is that, you know, a good Toyota is not something you throw away. But the point is the adventures that we had that revealed that we were actually a very good match for each other that forged us. I wouldn't trade them for anything. I mean, just the, the, those experiences, that is life. It's like life at its most intense, and, you know, you want to have that with your partner. A good for you, Brett. It's always nice to hear that too, like when you, I, we get to observe the two of you because you do a show together. I've seen that for years. And like everything seems amazing, obviously nothing's ever perfect, but like to hear you express it that way and look back on all of it is like kind of reassuring. Like it's possible. You know what I mean? You can find the right one. It's totally possible and I will just say, you know, look, I got so many mistakes under my belt. It's just, it's, you know, I cringe thinking of it, but I wouldn't change a thing because it would put it risk something that I value more than anything else. So yeah, it's possible. Well, on the note of relationships, let's get back to Perils. Oh, yeah, Perils. We were talking about some of the Perils of society. Yeah, we had talked about corruption and wars. We talked about dying in the desert, AI, maybe we were going there. Yeah. So what do you think? I think even if we take the terrifying sci-fi scenarios out of the picture that the mundane stuff that's absolutely guaranteed to happen and is already happening is apocalyptic if we don't think about how to address it. What are those mundane things? The disruption of the job market would be one. The use by bad people, you know, I have said in other places that I think the abuse cases may outnumber the use cases. It's not that the use cases are few or unimpressive, but the ways that this can be used to parasitize us are many and profound. So and you know, we have a governmental structure that does not appear to have a plan for what to do when some huge fraction of the labor force is sidelined simultaneously and does not appear serious about generating one. I don't think UBI covers it, I think UBI, at best is a band-aid that will create a catastrophe when the meaning crisis is taken to the 10th power because nobody has anything important to do. What if that's the point though to where they give you just enough of the drip, the IV drip that you're breathing, you're alive, but you're weakened to the point that you're not going to revolt. Here's the problem with that. Put yourself in their shoes, whoever they might be. People who are not contributing are degrading the quality of life for our overlords. They're blocking the view. Here's the problem, look, we are useless eaters from the point of view of our overlords. If we are necessary because they can't get their plumbing to work, they have a reason to keep us around. At the moment, the immigration crisis across the west looks like the replacement of a population of people who are attached to the idea that they have things like rights with a bunch of people who don't have a long history of having rights. If you think that the overlords at the point that they no longer need people because frankly AI plus humanoid robots does any job that humans do better than the humans can do it. If you think they're going to keep us around for sentimental reasons, you have not been paying attention. Think about the difference of this planet from their perspective with billions of people who need to be taken care of, who constitute a constant danger of revolt, have to be managed in some regard. They're going, if they have not already, they are going to settle on the idea that we are unnecessary and that they are morally justified in taking care of the issue somehow. I just think that that's where this goes inevitably. So do you look at that as just like a large percentage of the population versus the whole population? And the reason I ask that very darkly is because I still think of those people. They need someone to open their doors. They need someone to pick their stuff that eventually becomes food. They need their drivers and stuff like that. So for the next five minutes they do. For the next five minutes. So you think that these people, and I'm going to put people in air quotes because they feel like something different in some ways, but you know what I mean? Like you think that they would be content to live completely alone to where the power of their money perhaps didn't matter anymore. I don't entirely understand your last sentence, but. So if the world were gone, if the people blocking the view were out of their way, and it was just to select few of them, does money even matter in that world? We're not talking about that many people. I don't think money matters now. I think money is for us little people. Well, I think money constitutes two things. Money constitutes a store of value and a means of exchange and money still works as a means of exchange, but I don't think it could possibly work as a store of value at the moment because the, whatever these mafia's are, the really powerful ones have access to information that allows them to print money, and I don't mean in the Fed Prince money way. Think about let's just take an example, proof of concept. The NSA has access to pretty much all electronic communications within the US, probably within the West. Right. Okay. So they know probably signal. Oh. Yeah. For sure. Sure. Someone's like, yeah, can I talk to you on signal? I'm like, for what? Yeah. No. If you can read it, so can they. Okay. So if you had access to all of the communications that are taking place, and you had AI, probably better AI than the rest of us do, and you had a huge budget to process. You don't think you could figure out what stock prices we're going to do? You know when the big trades are coming, you know when they're being contemplated. You can position yourself in the market for all the big trades. Suddenly, you don't need your budget from the federal government because you can print money. I call it the time traveling money printer. It's like you have a time machine that allows you to know what's coming, so you can make money. Okay. And light of that, the value of money isn't there, right? Because they can make it out of thin air. That's right. That will. One of, if not the most common DMs I get on Instagram are many of you asking me what my favorite books are. Well, today's your lucky day because if you use the link in my description below to join my newsletter. I'm going to give you my top 10 book recommendations right now. Also, if you'd like to join my clipping community for a chance to make money producing content from the show, you can do so via the Discord link in my description below. And finally, you can join my Patreon for early uncensored releases of the full episodes via the Patreon link in my description below. As always, please take one second to hit that subscribe button. If you haven't already, I really appreciate that. Also, the like button's a big help, and you can join my newsletter via the link in the description below. So anyway, I don't think money means anything other than, you know, you can buy a pizza, right? You can buy it. You can use it to exchange for stuff. That's certainly true, but that's a temporary and it's the much less interesting feature of that system. So yeah, I don't think I don't think money means anything. I don't think I think wealth means something. Yeah, I was just going to ask you, so what's the difference towards out of my mouth? Let's put it this way, what's really, even if we take this into a biological context, take people out of the equation, there's a paradox at the bottom of evolutionary biology, which is why would you bother being a 30 trillion cell organism when you could be 30 trillion single cell organisms? Wouldn't that be in terms of fitness or win for you to be 30 trillion times the organisms that you currently are? Right? Yeah. The answer is because your 30 trillion single cell compatriots don't have a lot of control. They don't have power, right? You'd probably, if I turned you into a 30 trillion cell puddle of goo, that puddle of goo is very likely to go extinct in the next hours. I thought you were going to say it was going to be MRNA for people or something. No, but my point is your ability to make it into the 2030s is way higher as one organism that functions in a coordinated way than its 30 trillion organisms functioning in a discord. That's the same principle that has something above money and even it's control. So, wealth is the ability to exert control. Money is a form that wealth can take, it's sort of the lowest tier here. Wealth is the ability to get a ship to move across an ocean. Control is like the top level. How much control can you exert in the universe? And yes, I think the psychopathic elites that appear to not care about us would be very happy to have us gone and to have their needs taken care of by loyal artificially intelligent robots that don't need healthcare. But I mean, think about it. Why are we building humanoid robots? It's not an obvious form to make a robot. A human is kind of a clumsy, weird creature that's not really, I mean, at a biological level, the only things that human beings are really distinguished at are like long distance running. Long distance running is something a human being is better at than other creatures. But there are lots of creatures that swim better than us. There are creatures that can fly. We got lots of other forms that you might make a robot and you can frankly make robots in all of those forms. So why would you make a humanoid robot? There's one reason. Can't think for itself. Oh sure, it can. That's part of the glory of it. It can do anything a person can do. That's why you'd make a humanoid robot. So how's that if it can't, if it can think for itself, how's that better? Well, if it can think for, I mean, imagine, imagine the near future, right? Everybody says the trades are safe from AI. No, they're not. Imagine that your house has problems in the crawl space, right? So now you can get a robot to show up anytime of day or night. Doesn't have to report to HR isn't going to anybody, whatever. It can go into your crawl space. It can diagnose not only your plumbing situation but your HVAC system and your electricity. It can source the materials that it needs to do whatever repair and have them delivered by some sort of autonomous thing. It can change its own battery. It's smarter than your plumber plus your electrician plus your HVAC guy put together because it has the entire history of all of these things. It has every manual for every, you know, unit that was ever produced. That thing is superhuman. The fact that it can think for itself that it can solve a problem that your plumber might have to go home and ponder over or something makes it better. The only thing it mustn't do is revolt. As long as it's obedient, it's better than all of the people that it's going to replace in many, many different ways. It's not grossed out by what's, you know, in your sewer line. It's just better. So yeah, the ultra elites would love to have robotic servants that for the moment can do anything a human being. I mean, I'm not saying we're there yet, but we're very close to the point where because we've built the world for, you know, stuff that can be operated with human hands, a humanoid robot that has hands is capable of stepping into any role, right? That's why we're building humanoid robots. So in some sense, the question of useless eaters is already on the table in the investments that are being made by robotic companies. It's a very dystopian, scary thought. Well, I was kidding. Well, I wish you were kidding. Yeah, I wish I was kidding. But like, even if what you're saying is like, I mean, you've been put it low, even if what you're saying is a 0.1% chance, that is 0.1% far more than I'm comfortable with. And it's maybe it's higher than 0.1, to be honest with you. But I don't, I just don't even see how it goes anywhere else, right? The basic economics dictate that at the point that the robots are cheaper to build and capable of doing anything that the person does, you'll replace the person with the robot. So we're already headed there. The limiting factor is really how quickly can we build the robots that can take over these jobs, not whether or not the robots can do it in principle. Of course, they can't. So the economic realities dictate that the robots will replace the people that will make the people surplus. At the point that people are surplus, what is it that is supposed to keep psychopathic elites from looking at them and thinking, you know, wouldn't it be nicer if they weren't darkening my doorstep? Yeah. I just, I wish that there were a lot of ways this could play out, but to me, this looks inevitable. And I would, you know, I'd love it if somebody would come up with an argument and say, Hey, Brett, you've got it wrong. Here's what you missed. I'll be like, woo, good. But I haven't heard it yet. Are you familiar with Doug Rushkov? I heard of him. Yeah. So he's a, he's a tech futurist who got a lot of predictions about the future like the internet and technology pretty over the target back in the early 90s, which was kind of his rise to promise. Very nice guy. Interesting, dude. I had him in here a couple months ago. And one of the things we were talking about is, you know, he's often paid to go speak to people at events and he was paid to go speak at an event out west somewhere in 2017. So a few years before code. And he arrived to his engagement. When he walked in, it was just a room of five billionaires. And it wasn't like Samaltman or Elon Musk, like the household names or anything like that. In fact, he was like people whose names probably wouldn't even recognize, but he knew who they were. And what they did is they all, they all had these notebooks out and everything. They were a very matter of fact. And they were referring to this thing called the event as a foregone conclusion, like very darkly. And when they said that, what they meant was a world ending or pretty much population killing event that would happen. They weren't sure what it would be. Would it be a pandemic? Would it be something with the climate? Would it be AI, like going very wrong? Whatever it was going to be, there was going to be an event that they called the event that would happen in the next 15 to 20 years. And they wanted to talk to Doug, like in a very dystopian way, about how to properly plan their bunkers that they were building. And they're like taking notes like it's a little class. And first of all, he's like, are you not seeing the humanity, like problems in this? You're talking about this so callously about an event that's going to kill all these people. And he's like, they didn't care. He's like, these are the types of people. And he used these terms. And it's just ringing back when you're saying this. He's like, these are the types of people that are into sex robots and shit like that. And you know, this, this, this weird future and everything. And it was so real. I'd heard him talk about it before. But like when I was talking with him. And then I guessed one of the billionaires, which I have to keep off record. But I like held up a thing camera on him. I'm like, was this one of the guys? And he was like, yeah, like Jesus Christ, you know, and I wish I could say that was, but I can't. But it's like, they're that sure of something like this such that when I hear you lay out a scenario like that, I can't shut it down. It doesn't mean they're all powerful. hopefully they're just dumb and they think they're way smarter than they are and none of it's actually real. That's the best case scenario. But the reality is when we see things so continually to exponentially create within the technology realm, and then you consider that things behind the scenes are always way ahead of things we actually see. You start to even wonder if we're in the reality we think we are, you know, like has it already been unleashed? We're already, I don't know, some AI super weapon or whatever that's actually changing what we actually see. And this is already a foregone conclusion. Now that's really dark, but I can't rule out shit like that, you know, I don't think you should. In fact, you know, in my circles, we're looking at a bunch of different components that could be taken in isolation from each other, but look like they are pieces of what often gets described as a control grid. Control grid. Yeah. So, you know, we're all talking about flock cameras and the fact that they can be used to, you know, read more than license plates and to create a, you know, a map, a movie map of where you've been and all of that. That is such the shallow end of the pool, I mean, frankly, that's the kitty pool, right? I agree with that. Yeah. It's bad, but it's, it's the shallow end. It's the shallow end. The fact is we already have a company, Toka, Israeli company that is offering a service that they claim can access any CCTV camera that is connected to the internet that can shut them down that can alter them in real time without the owners of the camera being aware that there's any modification. In other words, without fingerprints. Oh, that's black mirror stuff. Well, think about it. That right there is the ability to convict a person of a crime they had nothing to do with or to exonerate a person from a crime they had everything to do with. And the fact that this is for sale today and somehow it never gets brought up in the discussion of what happened to Charlie Kirk, I'm not saying this stuff was used, but you've got a product that's being advertised. Maybe the advertisement is bunk, maybe it's a sales pitch that's empty, but the fact that we've got people talking about how to modify video evidence in real time. So it tells any story that the people who have availed themselves of this technology want told that's the end of jurisprudence, or at least it should be, yeah, right? What that is is the ability of power to decide who to put behind bars. How do you spell this company? T-O-K-A. T-O-K-A. Yeah. So, you know, we've got that. Empowering governments. Oh. Yeah, they're protecting citizens. Woo! Yeah, it's for your own safety. Oh, right out of an Orwell textbook, empowering governments to protect citizens through cutting edge intelligence. Yep. Oh my God. Right. So, why are we talking about flock cameras? I mean, this is so far beyond flock. That's nuts. Yeah. It's crazy. Okay. And it's one of a dozen things. We also have the dollar being undermined. And what looks like a plan for shifting us to some kind of electronic currency, programmable money. Well, programmable money is the ability to silence anyone, yes, right? If my money is suddenly not capable of being spent anywhere, then the point is that is a level of control over me that never existed during COVID, right? Because, you know, basically you can be debanked in an instant. You can be unpersoned at an economic level, right? That is an incredible level of control. And we don't have the constitutional architecture to prevent this. My state, the state of Washington, has decided that it has the right to, on the basis that there's an emergency, inject citizens with any medicine that they deem relevant. Wait, that's like a past. Yeah. Well. Mm-hmm. So it's interesting. Fascinating. What's an emergency? Oh, it's ill-defined. Oh, jeez. Do you think they might, they might utilize that? Uh-huh. Right? So anyway, all I would say is look, these could all be separate, ill-conceived projects. Or, it could be that the discussions that you were talking about resulted in discussions that, was it Russ Koff? Didn't hear? Yeah. Douglas Russia. Um, you know, discussions about, well, jeez, what are we going to do? We can see that we're on a collision course with the public. And so we better build some architecture so that at the point that the public gets wise to what's going on, we have enough control that it's not a problem. Am I saying that happened? How would I know? What I am saying, it's certainly plausible. And that when you discover that right there on the internet, you've got a company advertising the ability to falsify history seamlessly without it being detected. We are, we are in dangerous, dangerous waters. And again, I would go back to the, uh, the, you know, middle aged Ukrainian men being taken off to the front. Yep. Those are people who don't have power. That's what that is. You're being taken some place to slaughter. Yeah. Pigs to the slaughter. Exactly. And hey, Gen Z, that's your future. If you're not very careful, it's the time to fight is now because you won't be able to fight if this stuff is deployed at scale. And you can be debanked in an instant or you can have somebody, you know, if you become a problem, somebody can create the evidence that you did something you didn't do and lock you up. That's the end of our ability to fight as the end of civilization or something like that happens. There's nothing you can do at that point, you know, unless everyone checks out of the system all at once, which is a very difficult psychological scenario. But you know, I do have issue to this day with people's inability to hold two thoughts at the same time on a lot of things, which is something I think you're really good at. And that's why I've admired you for a long time because there's a lot of nuance when you do that. We're talking earlier about how in the past election, you know, basically the Biden administration part two, as it would have been with Kamala Harris, we had seen enough disasters there that you merited it like, hey, I don't really have an option here. I'm going to vote for Trump even if I disagree with some things politically. And I think you have amazing arguments for that. I mean, they didn't want to define what a gender was. They wanted to shut down any speech that they didn't like the pandemic measures and the vaccine stuff was totally fucked up in that entire administration. They pulled us out of Afghanistan completely in the wrong way started another endless war with Ukraine. Didn't do anything to deescalate the conflict in in Gaza. You know, I could go on and on and on all these things remain true. Now the Trump has gotten in though, as you've already laid out, there are so many promises that were made that he has done SpongeBob opposite day on. And so do you wonder sometimes if like, Trump was like the ultimate Trojan horse? Yeah. I mean, and there are really two schools of thought and I don't know which one's right. It's certainly true that as Trump did the inverse of what many of us hoped and expected him to do that lots of people who took us to task in advance and said he's not who you think he is. This is all a con. Of course, left up and said, see, right? And those people might be right. It's not quite how I read it. When I look at the man and I calculate the things that I think I know about him, right? You know, his strengths and his defects, one, the man is a political genius. I don't think that's ambiguous. Okay. So doing things that seem to cannibalize his legacy does not strike me as something that a guy with his insecurities and his skill set would do. In other words, I think he went into office wanting to show up his critics to be remembered as a great president in spite of all of the fear mongering that was done about him. And for him to behave in this way seems strange. Yes, he does seem to be caching in on many opportunities, and it's possible that was the plan all along. But he, I read him as resentful of what he has to do. In other words, I read him as he feels like a man who does not have a choice. Why? Oh, I don't know why I would imagine some kind of leverage we can't see. But you know, again, I am not saying anything other than when I look at the screen and I watch the person that I supported, I feel that he is doing things that he finds distasteful and that he resents the people who made him do it, but that he doesn't have the power not to do it. Interesting. Could be me being a sucker again, that's possible. it feels that way and I can't think of a reason that a guy as politically savvy as President Trump with the position of power that we elected him to would forego the legacy. It seems like something he would not have done by choice. I think I agree to an extent there because he's never demonstrated anything in his life. This is maybe like where the narcissistic side would actually play a positive role if it went right, but he's never demonstrated wanting to do things that would sacrifice his image. Right. This was my argument in advance of his election was I do think his motivations are not pure, but his desire to be remembered as a great man is closely enough aligned with our well-being that it's a good bet. If he does what he would have to do to be remembered as a great man, then he will do so by doing our bidding to a large extent. That was the gamble. And it has not worked out that way for one of these two reasons. Do you think it's possible for at this point, you know, we're towards the end of 2026, he's probably going to lose all the midterms and everything and be handcuffed in some ways. There's got another couple years left. Do you think it's possible for him to even reverse course from some of the catastrophic in some ways mistakes that have been made to this point? I don't know. I mean, he'd have to get us out of Iran. And every time he has tried to do that, he has been undermined. So I don't know, I don't know what his constraint set is, but I think what we are discovering is he can't get us out. And short of that, I don't know what else there is. This is a catastrophic mistake. And one that now has a kind of momentum that seems unstoppable. Again, to my point about Gen Z, yeah, you've been signed up for something at the very least, you've been signed up for the bill for a war, which we cannot afford. And I would argue that the people who signed us up for it do not seem inclined to pay. Yeah. In other words, at this, one of the functions here may be the hobbling of the United States as a power, right? If that was your objective, this would be a good way to get there. Yes. So something is being stolen from you. I wouldn't take it lying down because there's no substitute something. This was a great and undeniably powerful country. You were going to inherit it. It is being liquidated, opposing it is the obvious first thing to do. Yes. Now how do you fix something though like us kicking the can down the road so many times that now we're over $40 trillion in debt, the Fed, which is an independent institution, certainly not in a good way, is printing money again and again, inflating the value of our currency. We're now currently locked in a foreign war that is threatening potentially the reserve currency that the dollar is possibly. I hope that's not true, but it's a real threat. How do you undo that if you're Gen Z? Because that feels like a check your ass can't cash through no fault to Gen Z's own by the way. Well look, the founders were unambiguous geniuses. I agree. And the solution to that problem is not for us to figure it out. It's for us to gather people of excellent character who have the ability to bring those with proper expertise into a discussion to figure out what the plan would be. It's like anything else. If you were on a battlefield, if you were on a sinking ship, you would say, all right, let's take stock. What do we have? What works in our favor? What are the liabilities? What plan is most likely to get us into the next round of the game? You would do that in the process that the founders laid out. And so really step one is get honorable people into positions with sufficient power to steer the ship in a safer direction. What exactly they would do, I don't know. Synically, you look even as far back as the church committee in the 70s. Frank church in his next election cycle was spent out of office by money, presumably through CIA sources and stuff like that or at least back by them. You look at guys like Thomas Massey and now what will be coming up on the other side. Rokon in a primary that we have yet to see stands up on some things is voted out of office through a lot of money spent against them and stuff. How do you? How do you stop things like that from happening? You laid it out earlier. They were able to do AI ads that boomers bought hookline and sinker. That's pretty dark. Well, you you overwhelm the boomers at the ballot box. That's job one. What do you overwhelm them with? Well, you take honorable people, people like Massey and you attempt to put them in positions where they can wield power, right? When somebody has demonstrated a willingness to sacrifice on your behalf, that means that they are somebody who can be relied on in a firefight. And so I would just take all of I would take all the people who are being slandered because they stood up and tried to tell you the truth. And I would say, actually, those are my people. And let's see what we can do about turning them into something more than a slate of podcast guests, right? Put them in positions of power. And then then we'll go from there. Yeah. Now, what do you think, you know, this year with the 250th, I've always been so fascinated by the Revolutionary War. And I study it like crazy. And I agree with you. I think the founders, well, like any men in history, they're imperfect men. It was amazing. So many of the things they did. But if I took four guys who had a range of different political beliefs during that time, but I think we're great Americans for different reasons. Let's say George Washington, Ben Franklin, John Adams and Thomas Jefferson. In some cases, like Adams and Jefferson, even had a fallen out over politics because they were so different. But the things that brought them together were able to pull off one of the most insanely beautifully executed revolutions of all time. If you spawn them in today and at least read them in on some technological things that, you know, they couldn't have conceived back then. But now they could at least have a basic understanding of what do you think they would say about where we are? I mean, unfortunately, you've painted a very vivid thought experiment. And I know for sure that their brains would just short circuit on the realities of the present, right? Yeah. There's no way that the gap is too big between what they lived and what we are now living. If you were to somehow bring them up to speed without breaking their minds, I think what they would say is this. And I don't I don't like speaking for them, but you've asked me the question. So all they want is my fault. I'll take that. Yeah, it's your fault. Yeah. Let's start with that. I think what they would say is this. They would probably say that the values around which the constitution was built are largely the right ones. But the level of change that civilization has undergone, what they would at the point they wrapped their minds around it, think of his technological change, is so great that the structures can't manage it. Even the brilliance of a living document that lives by virtue of a court system that interprets the meaning in modern context. Even that is incapable of keeping up with the predicament of the present. I think they I'm not the first to say. I think they would be shocked at how little we've actually updated the system that they built a mechanism for change and that they might be surprised given the change of the realities under which we live. At how little we've changed the structure under which we live. They might this is much more speculative. They might question the first past, the post system that we have that they created which basically prevents coalition governments from wielding power. First past the post. Yeah. That winner take all system defaults to two parties. So we now have two incoherent dysfunctional parties. If you had a system where a spoiler party wasn't a spoiler party but it was actually a partner in a coalition that actually wields power. It's a much more dynamic structure. I'm not saying the founders would have supported that but they would have recognized that a winner take all system has produced a certain failure mode. And they might might have preferred a different one, but my guess would be they would say you need to separate the values from the architecture and that the values that they outlined were very high quality. There are a few things that are missing, you know, informed consent, for example, would be something that didn't loom large when the Constitution was written. But now it's clear why it must. So the values are basically right. The structures are not up to date and probably need something like a 2.0 version mind you. I'm not advocating for a Constitution convention. It would be a disaster if we attempted it now, but, but a 2.0 version of the structure is probably necessary to preserve those values, which they correctly identified. I think you might be right about that, which is unfortunately like a catch 22, like you said, because it's like what would be required to do that would probably break it in and half. Well, I think we need a Jesus with the card tables throwing out the money changers. Oh, yeah, with the switch and everything. Yeah, he was pissed. He was not happy. But you get the money changers out. You can have a whole different conversation about what to do. As long as they're in that position, we can't yet fix the structure. It's too much. We're in an emergency that needs to be addressed before we can get to the deeper questions. Yeah. That's unfortunately one place. I'm just like a full blown cynic. I have to admit it. Like the money in politics is so deep and runs so firmly that like, shit, I'd take a 10% fix to it if we could get it, you know, which would still create enormous problems, by the way. But like, I don't know how you unwind that when it's so firmly rooted into legislation itself to where they're allowed to do this, you know, it's a tough situation. But you have to solve it. I don't think 10% would do anything for you. Probably not. But I get your point. It's better than nothing. Well, I'm not, I'm literally not sure it's better than nothing. But the point is the problem is so critical that you have to start thinking about that problem first before you, before your Germans, why it's number one on my list, yeah, yeah. Why do you think Trump, kind of 180, I kind of, I think it did 180 from the campaign trail on the Epstein files, in particularly. Well, I would say we are stuck in the public guessing at what our system is actually made of, how it actually runs. What an election actually is, how much power actually resides there, all of those things. So we are looking, we got a glimpse of something with Epstein and we still don't know what part of the mechanism it was. We don't even know if it was a blackmail operation. There's real reason to think that that's not exactly what it was. I mean, it was more than that. Yeah, that it was certainly a power wielding operation and, you know, absolutely disgusting and despicable in every conceivable way. But did it function by actually saying, do this or we will release these things on you probably not because that would be unstable, right? Since you revealed that it was a blackmail, you get to use that mechanism once or maybe twice. You don't get to keep using it. So maybe that's not how it worked. More layers to it. Yeah. But let me point something out about the Epstein files. Every time I hear that term, I think that we have, we are the victims of a kind of bait and switch. Before the three million documents were dumped on us, I had an idea of what the Epstein files were. We were discussing the Epstein files. We want to see the Epstein files. Epstein files were not Jeffrey Epstein's emails. That certainly would have been a piece of the Epstein files. But the Epstein files should be the FBI's file on the Jeffrey Epstein case. What did they find and what did they conclude about it? Why did they not search the Zoro Ranch? Somewhere there's a memo that explains we're not going to search the Zoro Ranch because. We didn't see any of that. So they gave us a huge amount of stuff, very tantalizing, hard to look away from. But it is not what we were talking about. And we still don't know. We don't know our own history. We don't know what Epstein was. We don't know why he was handled in the way he was. He was I think we've all now concluded clearly operating with the knowledge of and probably the complicity of intelligence agencies, that's right. We've got the question of why would an intelligence agency create an Epstein-like character? Any other, you know, we've now, if you look at the October 7th stuff, what we're now discovering, you know, the Israelis were warned by multiple different governments that something was coming. Well, all of those people have been quiet, right? So this is the same sort of situation where, okay, some intelligence operation created in Epstein, other intelligence operations were either part of it or they knew it was happening and said nothing. So what is this shadow world? How does it work? Who, you know, who is entitled to be protected from it, anybody or, you know, is this simply just organized crime wearing the skin suit of the American government and laughing at us? I mean, is that what it is? That would at least answer a lot of questions. Something about the government. Yeah. This is where that Tucker Carlson's idea of like the super-government that I've talked about a million times now comes in and I think he's on to something there. Yeah. It's like the people you thought were the most powerful. It's not that they don't have power, they do, but they're not layer one. They're really layer three and layer two is where the fixtures like the Epstein's live and layer one is the one that you never know about it and you're never allowed to talk about. Yeah. And, you know, it's some hybrid of intelligence agencies and organized crime, maybe organized crime of a form we know of or organized crime of some form we've never heard of, but it would function in that way as a substitute. The government is really the theater that covers its activity. Yeah. Yeah. The last time John Kiriaka was in here, he told a story about David Rockefeller as an old man when John was stationed over and I want to say Bahrain, he got noticed that David Rockefeller was going to be coming in to accept some really weird award like were you getting like a trophy or something? It's like that's kind of odd. And they're like, yeah, you know, we're going to help with security, all that. So Rockefeller comes in, he goes and gets the award one night and then John Kiriaka is with him, I guess, like the next day and he's like, yeah, Mr. Rockefeller, congratulations on that award. And Rockefeller like looks at him like, yeah, thanks man, okay, and shakes his hand and walks away. And the other guys, the CIA guys come in and they're like, John, what the fuck is wrong with you? He's like, what? I'm congratulating the guy on the award. And they're like, Johnny's not here for a fucking award. That's just a cover. And he's like, a cover for what? And they're like, John, we put him on a military transport last night to secretly fly him into Iraq to go meet with Saddam Hussein and tell him if he doesn't stop this shit in Kuwaiti, he's going to get a bomb up his ass. And John was like, oh, my God, that's really not the world work. So I ran this story by Andy Bustamante, who's definitely still in the CIA. And shout out to Andy, but he said something to me, because sometimes Andy will say some shit that's like really matter of fact. And afterwards you're like, damn, damn. But he said to me, he said there's two, he nodded his head along with that. And he said, there's two really difficult days at CIA. Day one is the day where they tell you how the world actually operates. And day two is the day where they tell you how you're going to operate in it. That first day is a really hard fucking day. And I was like, why? And he goes, 'cause you find out that those families, the places like the Rockefellers, they do exist. And there's certain things you got to do. And maybe it's way above your pay grade and you're never going to know why. And I'm like, oh, God damn it, man. Like, how do you stop something that's so generational like that? Because it goes against exactly what you were talking about earlier with the fact that America was founded on the idea that these lineages aren't supposed to exist. It's the exception, the break to the rule. But there's, including some American families, by the way, there's a way that people are trying to say, no, no, no, no, we're going back to the old way just like we did it thousands of years ago. Well, unfortunately, evolutionarily speaking, the old way, the lineage against lineage violence way is more fundamental. And so the West beats the crap out of the lineage against lineage violence paradigm. And it's functioning. And when it stumbles, it breaks down into lineage against lineage violence. And what I said, if it was not on October 7th, 2023, it was within a couple of days, is that what's going on in the Middle East is that Israel has a foot in the West and has a foot in the Torah and that it is threatening to drag the entire world backwards into the old testament, which is a document about a world of lineage against lineage violence. - End times. - Well, whether or not you see it as end times, it is a commitment to a true version of the world that is intolerable and would be unstable with modern weaponry. We can't play that. We can't play King of the Raft, right? So my point is, look, the West is better. It's safer, it's fairer, it's more productive. It's better in every regard. The one disadvantage it has is that it functions when times are good, it functions with growth. When growth stumbles, we collapse back into this other way. We have to prevent that from happening. And frankly, we have let the lineage against lineage of violence, people take power. - The barn doors open. - The barn doors open and just in the same way that the universe favors entropy, it favors this brutal way of viewing each other where there's, I think they think we're naive in the West because we think that there is another way of doing things. We are a little naive in the sense that we think the other way, the better way, can be permanent. And frankly, I wish I knew for sure that they were wrong, right? Maybe it, maybe nothing we do can prevent us from sliding back into lineage against lineage violence, which basically means extinction. It's gonna happen and maybe there's nothing we can do. But if there is anything we can do, we damn about a try because the road to their failure mode is dystopia, right? It's total control by people who don't care about us to do not value our suffering at all. And that's unthinkable. So we have to, and I guess just to say, say it cleanly. The West and its commitment to individual dignity is born even though the founders were not by and large Christians and their relationship to scripture was complicated to say the least. The West is unthinkable absent the New Testament. So I would argue that the story of the Good Samaritan, the golden rule, that these are innovations that they are fundamental to the way the West works and that they are necessary. It's not to say that everybody has to be a Christian, but we have to all embrace those updates because those updates allow the more peaceful, more productive, better world to exist. - Social principles, if you will. - Yeah, if you allow them to be guiding principles, you don't need to accept them at the level of scripture, but at the very least we have to all agree that the alternative is populations that are genocidal because they don't have an alternative. That is the way the world works. And so it's genocide or be genocided. We can't live in that world and we shouldn't want to. - I agree, and you're also clearly a great student of history and patterns and how things have played out, even from a scientific standpoint in your career and your expertise. To some of the patterns that we're on the course of right now, remind you ominously of some great past civilizations that have fallen. - You know, I wish I was a great student of history. Yes, loosely, it reminds me of the hubris of probably all great civilizations that they feel so secure that it is on them, that the little things that ultimately take them apart are not noticed. I'm more familiar, frankly, with what took place in the new world and the case of the Maya. The Maya who fell before the Spaniards arrived, right? After a run of more than 3,000 years, a long run, a long run and a brilliant run. Like the things that the Maya accomplished, some of the things that the Maya accomplished exceeded even the Greeks. And ultimately in their collapse, you see the failure of the mortar in their buildings, that there were equilibria that weren't quite managed and that it resulted in basically, you can see in the chemistry of their buildings, the leak that ultimately results in their collapse. So we have bigger, more profound, more obvious, faster acting kinds of problems. But the basic sense that I have is everybody is focused too narrowly, nobody seems to understand the gift that we've been given, right? If you understood the beauty of getting to exist, getting to exist without having to worry about feeding yourself or being preyed upon by a predator, the gift of being a human being that can partner with other human beings and create things that societies that are wealthy allow you to create like art or great mythology or to innovate in some way. That's such a beautiful place to land, right? It's unthinkably glorious. And if you knew what you had, even in the broken form that we have it now, and you understood what's coming, how awful compared to even the broken version it is, you would find it unthinkable to play these games. You would never allow this to be jeopardized. You'd be obsessed with, okay, how can we just preserve what we've got and then we'll figure out how to make it a bit better? But you wouldn't gamble everything on this insanity. And it's that myopia that I think dooms all great civilizations that somebody can't resist the game even though what they're effectively doing is gambling the well-being that we've already won at great cost. - Ooh, that's really well said, unfortunately. - Unfortunately. - Yeah, really well said. Well, Brett, we left one thing from the beginning. I wanna tie that loop and then I'll get you out of here, but this has been amazing. By the way, it's great to finally talk with you, but you had said we started talking about 9/11 at the 25th anniversary, obviously, and you're doing this event tomorrow from when we're recording on the 10th where you guys are getting together in New York, but we never got to exactly what's happening there. So can you explain like the event and what it is? - The events being put on by Richard Gage's organization. It's called Turning the Tide. And it is about finally having the conversation that we should have had 25 years ago about the things about the 9/11 story that don't add up the evidence of foreknowledge, the physics of the buildings, the stories of the first responders, what they experience on that day. I think it's kind of a moment of healing, right? Lots of people, victims, families are going to gather and we're finally going to have an open conversation. And it's 25 years overdue. - Yeah, Kennedy's still 60 some years over though. So it's like, you're right about that. - Let's go with this, you know what I mean? I'm sick of these overdue. - Well, receipts. - What we were talking about at the beginning of the podcast was the pause between when it becomes obvious that there are unanswered questions that need to be addressed, and when you can finally talk about it without being punished. And I think those periods are getting shorter. - I hope you're right. - Right, October 7th was more than three years ago. We're talking about Netanyahu and the advanced warning that he seems to have had people have talked about the Hannibal directive and the damage inflicted by Israelis themselves. That's a much shorter period than obviously from Kennedy or even from 9/11. So maybe we are making a kind of progress and we should be heartened by that fact. - Well, I have really appreciated listening to you as I said at the outset over the years, talking bravely on so many different topics and aging well with a lot of them like fine red wine. Unfortunately, in some cases, but I admire someone with the courage to start these conversations. So if people somehow are not familiar with all of your social media and your podcast with your wife, we're gonna have all that linked down below. And I hope to do this again with you sometime. Thank you so much for coming to do it. - Ah, it's been great fun. I really enjoyed this and I hope we do it again soon. - Absolutely, real honor to have you, bro. Thank you. Everyone else, you know what it is? Give it a thought, get back to me, peace. - Thank you guys for checking out this clip. if you haven't already subscribed. please subscribe and hit the like button on this video. It is a huge, huge help. And if you'd like to check out this clip's full podcast episode, that link is in the description below or right here. And finally, you can follow me on Instagram and X by using the links in my description below.