The Real Marlo Stanfield From "The Wire" Breaks His Silence

My real name is Marlowe Beaks. But anybody called me Marlowe's stanfield. A tough motherfucker ain't gonna act like he tough. A tough motherfucker knew he tough. When you got power, everybody comes for it. I ain't gonna never say nothing bad about my people. That's why a lot of niggas die and shit hit a day. We're gonna need Marlowe's trying to be something they not. They called your organization the wisest and most fierce. We made it 24-hour shops. We had seven grams in shit. We sell them home to dollar bags. We sell them $70 bags. And we were selling $50 bags. We asked shit back down. It was three years later when they arrested me. And I had about 30 months of witness that he's seen me kill these people. Today, you are about to meet the real Marlowe stanfield. The man whose life the iconic character from HBO's hit series The Wire is based on. Marlowe Beaks stanfield is one of Baltimore's most infamous iconic gangsters. Together with his twin brother, Tamir stanfield, Marlowe ran one of the most profitable heroin operations in the history of Baltimore. He had spots jumping 24 hours a day all over the city. From the projects on the west side to the abandoned tenements on the south side. Raking in millions and millions of dollars a week. True to the character in The Wire, the real Marlowe was also known as a killer. It was implicated in a number of homicides from the late 70s to the mid 1980s. One of the cops chasing Marlowe during this period was Ed Burns, a Baltimore city homicide detective and David Simon, a crime reporter for the Baltimore son who embedded with Baltimore PD during their quest to take down the stanfield crew. And unsurprisingly, the real Marlowe stanfield was never consulted with or compensated by HBO for the use of his life rights. In 1984, Marlowe was convicted of a double homicide based on the corrupt testimony of a since-disgraced forensic expert and was given two life sentences. In 2022, after 37 years in prison, he was finally granted parole. This is his very first podcast appearance. For more in-depth detail about Marlowe's life and the efforts by the city of Baltimore to take him down, you have to check out his new documentary Marlowe, available right now on Amazon Prime, I'll put a link to that below. What an honor it was sitting down with the man behind the most terrifying, fascinating character in television history. It's the real Marlowe stanfield right here on the connect with Johnny Mitchell. Dude, it's great meeting you, Matt. Same here, Matt. I've heard a lot about you, Marlowe. I've been knowing a lot about you for many years. Many fans of the show "The Wire" were mesmerized by your character. You're not Marlowe stanfield, you're Marlowe beats. No, he's a catcher that. My real name is Marlowe beats, but anybody called me Marlowe stanfield behind the fact. We all had the same mother, but I'm the only one who had a different father at the time. So as an age of nine, they even called me Marlowe stanfield, every sense. Right. Okay. Even the police. Right. It's your basically Marlowe's bait stanfield, is effectively how it is. Yeah. You're from West Baltimore? Yeah. Wow. What was coming up like? Well, coming up like far as much way you talk about coming up, far as being a kid or coming up. Yeah, home life. Well, everything was I, you know, it was times how I'd like an average person to have in the city, you know. My mother was a kind mother. She just ain't taking over shit. You know, we had a pretty good life. Did you have family in the game? I cared. And the game? Do you have family in the street? Oh, that's where we all come from, street. But like uncles or anybody from that, you know, like Vietnam generation that came home and started to get on with, you know, no, no. Okay. It was really you and your brother. Okay. And what is going to fuck people up so much to find out is that you really were the muscle end of the operation. See in the show, Marlo is this big kingpin business mind Omar, the gay dude. He's the stick up guy. That's what you were created. Your character was created around besides the gay sex part. They just threw that in there to just pour salt in the wound. I'm going to tell you this. See, I heard in the movie, right? And they played the movie, I wasn't in, you know, see the movie all the way because they come in every time they play the movie, they send me out to jail. Every time they would show the wire, they'd show the wire, they send me out to jail. So about fifth time they played, I said, no, you're not going to play that motherfucker. Ain't nobody getting that movie in here. Fuck that shit. Cause they used to put on DVD or something to get it in there. And every time they played, they sent my ass out to jail and I got tired of that shit. So I told him, he's an annex and they was going to play it again. And I said, no, I didn't think that shit again to hit. Fuck that shit. You know, so they didn't play it. They would ship you out or say the whole ass out, no, send me out to prison. Cause it was like a security risk or whatever. I don't know what they'd say it was. They did somebody else out to jail. They don't give you no reason. Wow. So you just came home. Yeah, I just came home. Yeah. For four years now. How had Baltimore changed, I mean, it's changed so much, I'm sure. You were down what, 36 or 37 years? Well, 37. I counted a drug treatment program. So that's 37 years. Oh, God. But I was released out of prison, 36 and went into the drug treatment program within a year. At the end of the 36 years of the year, in a guy release out of prison. How is the city changed? How do you feel about it? Does it look better than when you were out? Do you feel positive about where Baltimore is headed? I mean, in a way of me asking that, you know what I mean, it wasn't good. I mean, it always been hard trying to get ahead in life, you know what I'm saying? From my point of view, the way I say things, it was hard for us, you know what I'm saying. And it's still hard for us. I mean, the way they got stuff in life is designed to keep us, where they want to keep us. You know what I mean? us to go ahead and get knowledge of what needed to be done the right way to get ahead in life. But people in high place, they ain't going to let us go, but so far anyway, just like the house in the market and all that, they got red tape on the areas that they put us in. And they don't want us outside that area, you know? Yeah. So it goes, it can go a lot of ways with that. Yeah, there's good and bad, right? Yeah. Gentrification's moved a lot of people out since your time. Yeah, and then they brought them back in, they went to, in the city back. Right. So they went to Black people out. It's a beautiful city. Look at this, this fixed up house weren't, you know? I want to live here. Sure. A lot of people, they visit, but a lot of people can't live because they ain't got the means to live. Right. But they got to educate they stuff and, you know, you know, educating yourself, you still got to go to a lot of stuff and you, and nationality is different from others. So you got on in the streets, what, when did you jump off the porch? How old were you? About 13. Hmm. 13. What year was that? I think about 13, 1974. Okay. My brute dad and came yet. Huh. Huh. Yeah. So what kind of hustle and where you into? We, that was the motion for a little teenager back then. Yeah. My brother allowed me to sell weed in the house and shit from out the house, but she would let me sell it hard shit. Huh. I told my buddy, "Bloody, I said I can't sell that dope man, my mother had them all for kind people coming to my house." Right. But she let you sell weed though. Yeah. My mother was a thorough mother. She ain't taking no shit evil. Tell you. It's pretty cool though. Let me just sell 'em by. I mean. You tell you kill a motherfucker in many, they fuck with you. Oh. That's, that's what your mom is. Yeah. That's old school. Dude, what do you think about that? See, considering what happened to you, what you got involved in and the violence you were involved in and then going away from murder, do you think that was good advice? Is that advice you would give a kid now? See, my mom said that about me and a lot of my family members see she ain't like nobody try to take advantage of us. She ain't told us how to fight and all this shit but I ain't like bottles at first. I ain't like that shit but I don't even want to couldn't read shit so I'd add a chip on my show anymore from where everybody else can read and I couldn't read and I was like, "What the fuck are you talking about with me?" Crying shit, you know what I mean, ain't one little trouble. You were getting bullied because of that? Yeah, but my family not outside. So you married what I would have did somebody outside of play with me like that? That's why I'd never last smiled or none of this shit. I just started this shit when I came home laughing and smiling joking shit, I ain't. You did? I was shocked by how friendly you were when I first met you. That's the trick people. See, you weren't like that as a youth? No. No. No, I got a good heart, man. I just hate bully motherfuckers and people try to fuck over people. I mean, they go on in the world a lot, you know what I mean? And I just don't like it. So, so it didn't, you know, people tried to they see the other side of me, but I tried to control it now, you know what I mean? Right. Okay, so you're selling weed. You can't read, you feel like an outsider, right? You're self-conscious 'cause you can't read, understandable. When did you start to get down, squabble in, and fading and stuff like that? - Squabbing and fading, what'd you mean? - I'm sorry from the West Coast, fighting, fist-fighting. - Oh shit. - At the lot of my ass in the dark clouds when my sister's a dog, ain't knocking the dark clouds in and shit, for about two hours. I was scared of the dark then. - Yeah, I mean, at my fucking lot, I mean, I've tweaked about two hours, seeing like a lifetime then, oh, I came out and say, "Fuck this shit, I ain't, I ain't that none of them "will meet me up and no more, make me do shit." So, talking about family members. - What about the streets? When did you start evolving from like a small time pot dealer to somebody that was robbing? - Oh, I wasn't robbing, nobody. I know it was into this shit. I tell you, I hate boys, you know? Boys that stick up, men and all that shit, you know what I mean? 'Cause I knew I was gonna be here with me and that one day. And I ain't gonna tape my fuck around me like that 'cause you can't trust 'em. - Right. - And there's a matter of time, they're gonna turn on your ass. You know, depending on how the ears and stuff like that, who the ears, you know. - So your brother to mirror, how old is he? - To mirror his 62. - Okay, so 63. - Okay, so when you guys first started hustling together, I believe, right? How old were you then? - I guess that was 13, so we started doing about 14, 15. We were seven shit, but we got our own shit. We was about 22, 23 day guy. I may really get money, money, money. - Mm, okay. - So you guys were codeys, you guys were partners? - Yeah. - I usually get beatin' this shit for the motherfuckin' ass. People thought I would tell 'em this shit. I used to get danced with my used to be tongue-tied. (laughs) Now, time I say, "I bought my ass with his ass." - Yeah, 'cause you guys look exactly alike. - Yeah, wow. - One day man, I was sick, right? And a woman came in there and said to mirror, but she came in there and said that when that's her right there, she hit me in the head and shit with a rock and shit. You know, I'm trying to say, "No, it wasn't me." I said, "Ah, ah, ah, ah." So my mom said, "No, no, no." It ain't come as this other bro, they lookin' like. And so, to mirror it, clams out the window and ran on it, got on the roof, the big roof and shit, right? So I said, "No, no, no, come on down, no, no, come on down. "For you fall, I get to beat. "Now I take to beatin' for you, no, no, come on down." 'Cause I ain't went on the fall. 'Cause something happened to him, but it like, "Kill me, you're. " Yeah, that was my mother ran man, you know? He's still my mother, my brother's. Other brother's. Yeah, wow. But, you know, man, don't come on, we up at doing everything. So, you know, always there to go. So, even prison. Okay, so, where is he now? Is he with us? Yeah, he just left me, well, you know, before we came here, he left me. Okay. We'll get to his story and what happened to him. I don't want to jump too far ahead. So, how did you guys grow your little operation? Well, well, I'm saying, I'm still some of me and Tamir were selling drugs. And then, we were hitting like, hitting big. So then, my sister had a boyfriend named Peter and he was a big drug dealer and I was working for Peter. I went work for Peter 'cause he was paying more than what I was making my own stuff with the weed and shit. So, we went over there and he was selling heroin. So, I'm talking about you now, a carnivore look, that side, 8.51 look and, um, Poe Homes look at the time in both areas. So, you talk about all day long, so you talk about me and the dollars of motherfucking pray every two, three days. This is an exaggeration. Yeah. People will tell you this for, just ask people who was back in the days. In the 80s, you know, that shit would like that every day and they was 70s and 80s out of Jones. And half a half is like 35 hours a day. This constantly all these long lines around the block from that motherfucking all we're up in around the corner, constantly. But it was hard to be a heroin dealer 'cause suppliers with good dope wouldn't just give it to anybody, right? Didn't anybody sell dope like that out there, exactly. See, a lot of people don't know. A lot of people who have been down with that shit for years and know, big time dope deals, know that a lot of dope was only come from one or two people. And they ain't know the big people who's hitting off day. Connects. They think they was going out of town getting them, but they really wasn't getting enough from Peter and somebody else. This episode is sponsored by GLD. I love GLD. They've got all the best gold jewelry and jewelry products. I cannot recommend these guys enough. I've been wearing my GLD chain almost daily and the quality is insane. It's got real gold, handset stones, solid weight and the details look even better in person. It's comfortable, durable, waterproof, sweat proof and it just elevates every outfit. I can wear a GLD chain with a black t-shirt and bam. Now I got a fit. In fact, I'm going to go use my own promo code to buy something before we head to Baltimore. Once you put this chain on, it does not come off. GLD makes those everyday pieces that actually level up your look. Clean chains, pendants, bracelets, watches all built to be part of your daily rotation. This isn't cheap stuff. You can feel the difference the moment you hold it. They've got over 2 million happy customers, more than 50,000 five star reviews and it's been rocking on guys like Justin Bieber, ASAP Rocky and plenty of top athletes. Every piece comes with a lifetime guarantee as well, so you know it's built to last. Work hard and change the game. For a limited time, check this out. New customers get 40% off, 40% off with code Mitchell at GLD.com. That's 40% off with code Mitchell and ITCH ELL at GLD.com. After your order, they'll ask you where you heard about them. Please let them know our show sent you. Go check them out at GLD.com. Go get yourself fitted. So there were local guys, because most people think, okay, Kingpin from Baltimore is getting it from Italian Mafia in New York or maybe they got a Middle Eastern connection, right? And Nigerians whoopty whoop, but they were actually local Baltimoreians that were just wholesale. That didn't have corners, didn't have strips that would just get kilos of kilos and just supply silently, supply guys like you see some some people was like, I only knew about one month or two more fuckers, they was getting to get it, but I knew the guy, Peter was getting to get into other guys, you know, nobody would put any money with him or whatever and all that I ain't getting to that. I let them tell their own stories, because I know who all, you know, coming up like that. That's why I would never say where he was getting his shit from, that's his shit. But when we was up there getting our own shit, when Peter passed away, years later we was getting our own shit, we were getting our shit straight from Africa, our shit was coming from Africa. And remind you already see it on the wire, you don't even talk about shit about the port where my father was the number one crank operator down the port, so I'm going to leave it alone. So now, y'all going to put me, do you want to put a wire, well, we'll lay it down somewhere down there, documentary, now that documentary, I don't want to prime in the OG network, we can go ahead and hopefully get a mini series and then you'll see all that, how that port came about. Okay. Or I can also ask it, was dope being moved through the ports like that, coming from overseas? Well, I ain't going to say other people's shit, but I don't know where I was shit came from. So that was a route, that was one of the routes, it was, wow, that's fascinating. So a lot of people don't know that, a lot of people don't know about me, period. See, that's why they say we was on the wires of organizations that it was and bought on most fears. And I'm going to tell you another thing, like, and they're going to be short with this. They say we killed this and killed that and killed that and killed that. You didn't want to say it. We saw a lot of dope and all this had keys or hurling and moving this, we had the city lock down all this shit and running here, running here, but we was never charged with drugs. We were charged with murders, but they used drugs to get, to get that conviction, dumb convictions. Yeah. You see what I'm saying? Like they were selling drugs, they was big drug pens and they were doing this and doing that, they were moving this kind of money and all that, they could never prove it. They say when they come down on us and shit like that, we was tipped off by somebody and that organization, yeah, you never caught a dope case. Well, yeah, I had a dope case when I was young, when I was saying, for doing that time, we was running, they'd never, I had caught a drug trial with Peter Dixon. You know, when I was young, when I first started with Peter Dixon, see, we was in a playground with shit there. It was in the high rise. This was the Lexington Street, Lexington Terrace and they had us on a camera. But making sure that I tell you this, I say, this motherfucker shit don't look right because you know, I was a man with the gun. So this shit don't look right. I see these motherfuckers come here and then they turn this way and see these motherfuckers running around there. So before I agree and say, Peter, these motherfuckers come running. You think you'll say it's over everybody. was coming like running towards me where the way I was going. So I knew where the fuck it was. I dropped the gun and running with the crab, right? So anyway, the whole time they had the cameras on us. From the high rise, they was taking pictures. - Right. - Not no video camera, that shit. They was taking pictures by the guests with the big lenses, something like that, right? And they was even had to wear on on a bag on a dope bag. - Wow. - You know, they said, yeah. - Do you see what it's on dope? - It's cause I had a fuck a week, see? We went and something dope. They got in and we're on on a bag. I don't forget, we was selling dope at the name of it was on. - On, yeah. - But you never caught a big indictment. That's not what you got your life sentenced for. You're right, they were chasing you for all these murders that were happening throughout the city. So, you know, when I say that, I've heard that your character from the wire was actually this guy Omar. And probably some of the Marlowe from the wire too. These guys were dropping a lot of bodies. You know, I know you haven't seen the show, but it was a very murderous crew. Obviously they hyped it up for television, right? But why, you know, they're chasing you for all these bodies, why is that? If you're getting all this money, you know, how much of that, yeah, how much of that is fiction versus reality, why did you have that reputation? - I'll tell you this, when you got power, everybody comes for it, everybody won it. But everybody can't hold it. So if you can't hold on to your shit, somebody's gonna take it, somebody's gonna kill you and, you know, they won it. Then you got the police who wants you off the street. You got the niggas of one of them. They got the mother fuckers. Scream me for the use that we're niggas on, like using it when I'm talking to people with your color or whatever. - I've never heard that word. What does that mean? - Yeah, that's what I'm trying to say. So who are these, yeah, who are these? - No, but actually when you say that, what are you referring to? - Well, it's said like, now you made your good boys? - No, yeah. When I was saying that stick up boys and all that stuff, you know what I mean? When they come, you dig when it's an eight, come. But one time some people tried that stuff and then they got caught up, you know what I mean? They ain't come back out dead, don't know for the more. And, you know, I go look for a mother fucker. See, I don't need to send nobody out dead to do my work and all that I could, but I put my own work in. What kind of work? You know, people work cleaning up stores, people work at the car, lots and all that other shit, but I go put in my work. - You're the cleaners. - Yeah, the laundry man. - As a dude said, laundry man. - That's what I said. You know what I'm saying? - That's right. I was straighting out. But your brother was not known for that as much, I believe, right? No, he been his mind. But he had to do what he got to do if he got to do it. But before he could do it, I'm dead. So it sounds like a lot of this was just self-defense. It was you guys protecting this turf in your life. - That's a good way of putting it. - Oh, yeah. - So I would never take, we would never take mother fucker, take the vans. So we hate vans as tickets and shit like that or use and do use plan on people in order. We'd never did that. It always was a motherfuckers that would fuck with us or fuck with somebody we love or found and remember stuff like that. But see, I want to say this for the record and get this straight 'cause I want the world and know this shit. Now, we never killed nobody for nothing and shit like it with somebody talking that bull shit or any fucking mouth, talking about what they're gonna do or who they're gonna hurt and all this shit and then no kid caught up. A tough motherfucker ain't gonna act like he's tough. A tough motherfucker, no he's tough. So he ain't got to go out there like, he big of a bitch. Oh, you motherfucking dick. I would kill you. I could kill you. I killed that, you know what I mean? Ain't gonna do that. I said I killed motherfuckers, so you know what I mean? I know you said don't look at that camera but you know what I mean? But motherfuckers go out there and they're running models and saying it's shit that I don't think they're gonna do shit. But one thing about me, I'm good with these. Also with that, they ain't with that. No, it's out there. So I'm all with round board motherfuckers, you know what I mean? So they know I could fight something and they shoot a motherfucker and no, it's out my mouth. So you know what I mean? But a lot of people just go out there and just take the advantage of people. Man, I just don't like it man. You know, won't you take someone from a motherfucker that won't give you trouble? This Baltimore is an extremely violent place back in that era too. I mean, I got friends that would stick up and then all that shit but I'd be saying that it is 'cause I don't want people, which is my people. I don't want to go out there sticking up the rhyme 'cause man, your chance is real slim. 'Cause your mother, if somebody coming at, she gonna tell where you at. It's just the brothers by tell where you at to get that motherfucker money if somebody got on the head. And if their friends need to get that fucking shit and see it coming, they're gonna tell where you at. They might be the one to even kill your motherfuckin' ass. So you got so many enemies coming from so many places, man, the police want to kill your motherfuckin' ass 'cause you're slinging that gun and they know you got a gun on it, they're gonna turn on you. So I ain't no one. These days ain't the way 'cause they got countless of motherfuckers. So I'm just trying to say their life's like, you know what I mean? 'Cause like I said, I have stick up friends and some family member, you know what I mean? Try the shit but one family member tried some shit one day. I said, listen, take that shit back up and get that man to the motherfucking shit. We don't have that shit now family. So he said, he gonna kill me. I said, I don't give a fuck what you gonna do. You gonna take that shit back? I'ma kill your motherfuckin' ass. You made him return it. Yeah, he returned it. And the guy and I told the guy, I said, listen man, I said, only one thing I asked you, he said, what's that? Ricky Duball's name. So I said, he said, what's that? I said, man, make sure I'ma come back alive, my brother. He said, okay, you got that. I said, okay. He said, I said, tricks us for kids, you know what I mean? That's what he sent him back alive. But he could have killed him though, easily. But that was somebody, him and Roy, keystone was real close. But he did that shit to Ricky Duball and that was the motherfucking man treating like a brother. See, that's what I'm saying, how cruddy that shit is. Right. Well, it's so, it's such a paradox of Baltimore because everybody here is so friendly and everybody knows each other. And it seems like very neighborly and welcoming it is. But at the same time, there was so much money in the streets. It's like people are getting killed and robbing people that live in the neighborhood and next door, you know. See, it's a lot of that come from, Lord, being Lord too, man, you know, and respect you have for another. Like I told my cousins in the founding miles of nephews and shit like that. Man, you go stealin' from a motherfucker. Somebody get your ass. Don't look for me to revenge you on your ass 'cause you deserve what the fuck you got 'cause we don't do that shit. So you taking somebody's shit, steal the man's shit and the motherfucker catch you. They want their shit back and you talking to him, rob our shit like you and we'll give it back and he'll tell your ass up. Yo, yo. You go stick up, motherfucker. Kid that motherfucker, don't get that shit back. If they don't set with you, you got, see, I always try to make the wrong right. If motherfucker ain't try to make that wrong right than you on your own, you know what I mean? You crossed that code. You crossed the motherfucking people and took them people's shit. So you got the right to do what they're going to do 'cause I would do it to your motherfucking ass too if you did it to me. So I don't play that 50 shit 'cause you're my founding mom and all that shit. You took that man's shit and give that man back his shit. But if you don't do what the fuck you do, what did I would do to you guys? So I said, okay, so you guys played fair. Like you guys tried to play by the codes, like the old school. - Oh, well, we don't try, we do. - You do, yeah, you hit a date. Yeah, I'm big on that shit, Lordy. Like I was telling my man, you know what I mean? Baltimore, Johnny, Baltimore, Carl, Carl. And I was telling him, right? I was gonna tell you Johnny, you know, you never Johnny, man. So I was telling you about, with that Lordy, when I'll be saying about when people break them codes, man, you're gonna get penalized for this shit. So you're, how long did it take you? You're like 13 when you start selling weed with your brother. How long did it take you to move up to like really started to control like heroin spots? Like where you're really making a lot of money. - Well, we had whole communities. We ain't had just a corner. We had whole communities. - Okay, so you're from the west side? - You're from the, you're from the projects on the west side, right? - See, we was, uh, Baltimore was Stroll Street, Emma Lines and all that stuff. Resident West Baltimore. But we moved to Westport, I think I was nine years old. So Westport is in South Baltimore, okay. But by me being my aunt, Fave in Nefrues, and Murphy Homes of Lexon Terris, I was at Lex Terris, Murphy Homes in Westport. So I'm back for that fight where I missed out on the school and she could have never been in school that much. And I lost out on the fondest, wouldn't make the word itself. So that's what it probably was, 'cause I ain't no shit, I couldn't read shit. But we're done. I was like, well, the fuck does that sound like it, you know? Did you, when you were starting to make all this huge money and run the organization, did you eventually learn to read? - Oh, I don't know. I had to read too, I was in prison. I was 26 years old when I was throwing out of reading. - So you were like in a literate millionaire? - Yeah, yep, that's pretty awesome. I wasn't like I was, you could count though. - I count like a motherfucker, you know what I'm saying? But I had other people count the money too, I could count, but I had other people, their money, Nefrues, no used to be up all night long for days, count the money. We ain't had no money machine. And so, yeah, they asked you to be fucking black count the money. because all the. we had bags and we wouldn't need, we get them loans to them. We wouldn't need techno ones and shit. - Yeah. - Fives and ones. - Yeah, they kept them all full. I say one is not fives. You know. Die them right, you kept the fives. See, I'm an other thing too, man. When I say, we had, I see a y'all paying attention. That's all, man. Man, forget shit. - Okay, you know, when I say, man, where was I at? You know, I do that a lot. It's just to make sure that I'm listening. - Anybody listen. If they don't say, we would not fall if I don't say, "Dee, motherfucker, they pay me no attention." - Dang, focus. What was the key to your guys' success? 'Cause there was a lot of people out there trying to sell drugs in the early '80s and Baltimore. How were you guys able to take over like all of these areas? Is it you had the bond package or you guys were better at business? What was it? - It's like, it's man. To me, I think it's loyalty, man. Treat them all, fucking like it. You want a person to treat you, man. That will win a person over all the time. You wouldn't want to buy a treat you like. Just smack your around. Don't give you no money in all this. You just treat you bad. How are you gonna work for a motherfucker? You're making that enemy for yourself. 'Cause the first chance he get, he gonna do your motherfucker to ask that. - So your workers, you were good to people that were working for you. Good to people that worked for us or wasn't working for us. We good to everybody. - Okay, so tell us where you were getting money out of. What parts of Baltimore? - We had original next-and-tires. We had some of Parkites. See, we got a big family. It's really being now. So it ain't like we just had the whole Baltimore. I can say we had shit and different parts of Baltimore. It ain't like we were the only ones. Other people had the two. But if they shit seven better than ours, I don't think so. But if we close shop with something, then they can come up with theirs and get the seven of it 'cause they're gonna sell. 'Cause ours shit ain't out. So if we got some bad shit, you know what I mean? - They ain't having the two tough. But when we had some bad shit, you know, then people got good shit. They're gonna sell these shit and they're gonna make money. So it always play fast shit with us. We just shut down. And all those people can make money. Keep the heat off us too. - Right, so where you guys retail and wholesale? Like where you get a product out to other dealers? - Tamir, Tamir. - Okay. - See we have, like I said, we have founding members and friends became family members. So Tamir was hitting people off real big. And a lot of people in Baltimore thinking they people was came friends and the whole time they was getting it from us. Here today, a lot of people don't know who these people is. But if Tamir, see Tamir don't like coming on shit like this. But he come on there and people know they're looking at this right now. They know who they are. You didn't say they know we was hitting them off. And people, right hand man might know. 'Cause you know, somebody always with them in the house and shit like that. And they founding members of us there. When we coming in and shit, drop shit off. - Right, but you guys have people drop. - He was real low profile. That's how, like, so a dealer might have not known. He was moving product that came from your brother. Yeah, the people who deal, the shit, yeah, the big man knew. But a lot of people, I didn't know they didn't know too many. - Do you think that's why you guys avoided catching like a big federal indictment? - The way we was moving. You know, the way we was moving. - Slick, as the way we were moving. - Tell us about, like, close calls. Like, did you know you had heat on you? Like, how did you move your operation really fast? 'Cause we knew they was coming. We knew when they was coming. You always have somebody, man. Did you have some cops? I ain't gonna say I had them cops. We had people and places that needed to be downtown. And places, you know, some shit, some shit you just can't say. You didn't want to say anything. - I don't want names, but I just want. 'Cause they got, you know, 'cause they got family members that still in the same places and stuff like that. Just like, I went and set up here. That's why I say, when people got their own connects and they had their own, they could tell their own stories. 'Cause I'm not gonna set up here and say that. What they had, who they was working for and all. That kind of shit. 'Cause they got family members still. I mean, they did that shit, still working. So you're saying that, then they go and trace them. People would take the old, got their organization down. There's still people working to this day. - Yeah, you got the shit on the stop, man. That's 'cause one die would have found it get old, you know, other people would take over. It's just like big corporations. Quite sure if something had to do with you, you're gonna go and just send the grants and I'm gonna take that money in, I'm gonna leave you to the state, is it? - This podcast dies with me. - Shit. - You can tell you that. Maybe you can take over. Maybe big balls of more car will take over. I don't know. - I give it to you kids, man. (laughs) - I don't have some friends. - I don't believe in taking over something eight minds. (laughs) - No. So, where you guys, obviously the cops, not the feds, but, you know, the local pigs, they were hitting spots all the time, right? They had the jump out boys, they had the, you know, they were hitting dope spots. Did you guys get your place rated a lot? - Well, they kicked indoors, you know. I mean, down-aligned doors and shit like that. But, well, nothing 'cause they knew they was coming. So they never got any big product. There was no big seizures right now, man. That's why they say, from the wide organizations, they say, "Well, the bottom one almost is." I don't know, man, redundant saying it, but, you know. - No, say that again, because a lot of people are not familiar with that. - They called your organization the wisest and most fierce. - They say, "Well, the wisest organization and the most fierce." You know, see, like I said, they say all this drugs, they know it, you can go to the streets, put it like this. "I'm not trying to go up here too, "but I don't know what I was doing, "as I did this, we got this and all that." 'Cause I'm broke as a motherfucker now, and he got shit. So, I'm back in the same fucking spot and that's when I came on. You're doing what I'm saying. So, that's why I tell the young kids, "This shit ain't worth it." "A lifetime of work gone down the drain." - Well, you got your freedom. - Yeah, I'm happy, it's a motherfucker now. - Yeah, I'm happy, it's a motherfucker, man. And I can read, so I liked it all the time. I got a read, I wouldn't have known the other way. - Now, did you have any, you know, the wire portrays Omar as stalking Marlow and sticking up these guys and taking the stashes? Did that ever actually happen? Did you ever actually have any big stick up kids that were a problem for you guys? - And ain't nobody fuck with me, I don't know motherfucking streets involved anymore. Man, no, no else, man. You know, man, that was a fucking movie. Where you was thinking, "You did ask stick up men's involved more." Ain't no question about that. And you probably did, and you'd name Omar something like it. But I'm telling you about me. I'd never met no motherfucker old man, a brand new old man, you know what I'm trying to rob me or with beefing with me. If that motherfucker had to beef with me, you'll know it. It'd be in the news favor. They will, not me. So all that shit, you know what I mean? I respect everybody. So I ain't gonna go there and say that man was a fag here, he was a whore, he wasn't sticking up. I don't know this motherfucker, so how can I say something about him, I'm fucking me. You know what I mean, I ain't gonna never say nothing bad about it. I ain't gonna go there and say he's a bitch, he's a whore motherfucker, he's a fag, I don't know that man. That's why people ought to keep their fucking mouth shut. We're gonna need mouth trying to be something they not. Saying shit about people, motherfucker, get mad about it. Stick up on them, we'll come out of the face of the face and do 'em in. When people all got to do his mind, they'd been in his and stop acting like women and shit and going to God's for hiring a motherfucker supposed to be your friend. And man, that'll be your friend, bring it to him, tell him to his face, don't go behind his back. T-t-t-t-t, that's woman shit. I come home man, I see so much of this shit. I like man, come on man, for real. You said that's your man? Right there, I can't trust this motherfucker. I mean, I ain't knowing that many way, I don't live that life no more, but I wouldn't trust him. Yeah, I can really see, I'm picturing you back in the day just from interacting with you and I can see it. See what, you were a gangster, bro. No, I'm just okay. Yeah, I just believe in what I believe in. That's an anything, I'm gonna stand up for what I believe in. Looking back, what year do you think was the height of your organization? That's getting money. Getting money, running like clockwork. Getting money, I see this. We had, when we made it 24 hour shops, 700s, going down a dollar bags, you know, we selling a dollar bag, we went selling grams of shit, we selling a hundred dollar bags, we selling 70 dollar bags, and we were selling 50 dollar bags, in the hand of three 25s, when we open up shops and just wait, we had shit bag down. 24 hours. 24 hour shop. 12 hour shifts, Westport, 24 hours, then we went to 725, 24 hour shops, and then people started running 24 hour shops. People that was out, people. Wow. And so, I see, yeah, I see, I quit. Yeah, it was her when the cook came. Oh, so you guys did get into Coke. Yeah, we had Coke, pan of Coke. Then my brother, you know, he dealt with a lot of people all over. So anyway, they wanted to give us a ride. He said, "Mold," and he said, "No, they got this new team." They called, "Rock." And he said, "Man, I said, listen, I don't want to hear about what the fuck they got. That's what they got. for us. So that's what we dealt with. We're not fuck with that right. He's okay. That's my brother to me where I said, yeah, we don't know what the fuck it is. And I'm glad we didn't because it was fucking people up. See, you didn't. You never sold crack. No, never sold a crack. I'm glad I didn't. It's a detour to a lot of people. Oh, so dope and coke destroyed a lot of motherfuckers too, but that right. It does seem like crack was worse. You know, I had an argument with Carl, our friend Baltimore Carl about this. Like, I'm like, how does crack, which is just coke? You know, I have a problem with it because of the drug laws and the excuses that the federal government used around crack to incarcerate a lot of mostly black guys unfairly for a long, long time. But it does seem like it destroyed the community more than heroin. This is man. See, there's a lot of people we don't know. There's political shit. It's real. It's real. And it's strong. The point is you never sold crack, which is kind of amazing. It's fascinating because in 85 and 86 in every major city in America, everybody is selling crack. And you guys just stuck with powder cocaine and heroin. And that might have been part of the reason that you didn't catch a big indictment. Oh, hell no. When it was 85, we went to jail in 85. They issued five nine millimeters out. What is that? Nine millimeters of guns. Everybody killed each other. We're here today. They should all five nine millimeters in 1985. And they had testers. I had one. The army had one and three other has some fucking shit. But anyway, they're trying to confiscate the 45s out the army and bringing these motherfucking nine millimeters. And they locked me up with one. But they didn't get it off me. They got it out the car. Me and somebody else was in the car and they searched the car. They were so happy to get that motherfucking nine millimeter to shoot 16 times. You didn't want to say. And one was in the chain and 15 in the clip. So I would tell them, like, whoa, man, don't put that motherfucker over there. You didn't want to say, hey, you know how to work a motherfucker. I have to tell him how to work motherfucker. Get that shit out the chain and that shit right here. So then he was shaking like a motherfucker and then they took my man out the car and put it in the fucking cruise and he still had this gun on him. So I told him around. So I got the gun off him and they had a bag in the cruise that like orange used cotton and something was in the brown people bag and put his gun in there and shit and stood up. I said, my fuck was so excited to get that gun and he checked you because he said, okay, I still got the fucking gun on him. This episode is sponsored by Mood. If you're a cannabis user and you're purchasing your product on the black market, odds are you're using cannabis that is infused with all sorts of harmful pesticides and toxins. That's just the reality. 80% of the market or something is dominated by cannabis that's grown in some illegal warehouse in Oklahoma by Chinese laborers. That's unfortunate. That's why you have to go with the best legal organic company in the country. That's Mood. Mood is an online destination for federally legal, hemp-derived cannabis grown on small, pesticide-free, family-run farms right here in the US. They make it easy and convenient. Everything from THC gummies and edibles to pre-rolls and flour ship discreetly straight to your door. They've got products for whatever vibe you're chasing. That's why I love them. I love their gummies. They put you in whatever kind of mood you're trying to get to, whether you're winding down for sleep, getting focused, feeling happy and euphoric, or if you want to enhance your sexual intimacy, Mood has something for you. Lately, I've been enjoying their sleepy time advanced gummies, smooth, great flavor, and perfect for that calm, relaxed feeling at the end of the day. Cannabis is still legal to buy at Mood and they make it simple. Head to Mood.com right now and get 20% off your first order with promo code connect. That's mood.com code connect, c-o-n-e-c-t for 20% off. Go find your perfect mood today. Okay, so you got bagged with a gun that there was only five of them and you had one of them. Yeah, we had one. They got one off me and look. When I went to court, you know, I got with a time I went to court I had about, this I had been trying with three bodies in, um, fucking nine millimeter, right. But they never charged me with because I believed my fucking chief police kept that motherfucker. Did that have any one of them? They only issue five at that time. Check the records. You'll see. Okay, so this is, this is perfect. So around this time, you know, the mid 80s, you're being chased by Baltimore homicide for these bodies, right? These murders. Tom Simon, David Simon. David Simon, I'm sorry. One of the co-creators of the wire is one of the journalists, crime journalists, who is following around. He's reporting on these, these unsolved homicides and you as David, David Simon was running around as a news reporter, but she was. And, um, Edward Burns was a homo sap police. Right. And Edward Burns was one of the guys chasing you. And he was the director of the wire. Right. Exactly. She was the same. Yes. So, of course, they're going to know who the fuck I am, but they act like you know, it was a made up story. They said, didn't he say it was a real person? Then first, they said it was a real pro. Then they say it was they made a, uh, Tamerra Stanford model base. And then they turned around, say it was a fixed story and all this. So I can show you, you know, not now, but of course, I'm sure you're from the beginning of that motherfucker, where they tell the story, how I come in, what they talking about, why they talking about it and that you see for yourself with the documentation, you go and see who they talking about. Right. But that, this is what's so fascinating. This is history kind of coming together. So you're being chased by Baltimore PD for, tell us about these alleged homicides and then tell us how you beat them. Well, I went to court for several homicides and, um, Joe, Camparo was a motherfucker who was a fake, they say he had credentials, the expert, both that expert and all this shit. Hey, I have, do me a favor. Tell me about these bodies first. Tell me, what were the circumstances in these murders? Okay. People got, close guy. No, these are, these are clearly murders that you were charged with. Tell us about the murders you were charged with. You beat them. Yeah. But they were murderers. So I, I, I, people want to tell you, tell us the ones, I was charged with, yeah. And then the ones you beat and how you beat them. Well, the ones I was charged with, you know, I mean, some they put on a step, you know, some they put on, um, non-processed, non-processed, you know, people were at the time. So that's the way you don't talk about the mother of a murder is because you, they still open for real. And the ones you put, they put on a step is like four year. And then, then that's up, you know, as several murders, they put on my ass and got out on bail and all this shit and recharge for again. And again, they say you don't post a beat like it because it's double jeopardy. But it's on the books. They did it to me. That's what they did. And they still trying to do the shit, you know, me too. I got up. Okay. So did you take these to trial? Did you beat these in trial? Yeah, some of my beating trials, some of my beat, you know, me, yeah, they had to beat them in trial, couldn't beat them no more. Who else? Okay. So they, I didn't know if they dropped the, the charges, you know, like I said, you think they put a knob. No, you can put a knob process. That's me. No, I probably know that much paperwork, not enough proof at the time. Right. Then you got to step for a year. They can put on there for a year and bring it back up. And some murders, they act like they still pen it. I guess. See, one thing about the police in this takes a turn, you know, they can put on shit. Anything they want to put on safe as you got off. If you line on the stand, they're going to send your mother fucking ass to jail. But if you cast a witness line on the stand on you, well, nothing happened to them because it's up to the state to charge them. They want to charge. Well, they want to charge this shit. So they can put together without they want to put on them. What were they, what were some of the tactics they were trying to use to get you? Did they have witnesses that lied on the stand? Oh, yeah. They had witnesses that like my brother, Caddard, they gave him, they say, we know you ain't killed these two people. But if you say your brother, Marlon, then we let you home right now. The day when he say Marlon was not at that party, you know, but he did 40 years and there for that shit. And he didn't even do that shit. And they had a motherfucker saying the police had him over there, witness saying another motherfucker killed him, pulled him up, shot everything but they didn't, you know, they didn't want them. They want my brother. So they were trying to tell save us me. So the cops were effectively lying and almost fabricating evidence. By trying to force people to say it was you, yeah, even when they maybe didn't want to. Or we're like, no, he wasn't there. He didn't do it. Whatever. Yeah, judges and everybody, you're in on that shit, man, because bad against me, you were really known downtown at this point. How many, yeah, judges are going to be sent to the commission on the side of the spot. You were implicated in. Total. The ones they thought were you once you beat? What's the documentary, and they tell you all this shit, even the police and number said, even, um, state's attorney, the motherfucking new commissioner. Oh, man. Oh, watch it. You'll see. You're on the radar. And that's an understatement. It was. Wow. Okay. So, so things are rocking. Like, you guys are making millions of dollars. You're, you're controlling half a Baltimore. You got the bomb package. Tamira is handling the business side. You're beating these murder charges. They're trying to put on you. But then the two bodies. Tell us about the murders that they pinned on you that the state and the city framed you with, essentially, that ended up putting you away. Well, before I get to the top of the ones that put me away on, back in '81, 80-81, two people got killed in a party, right? One husband for New York, and one husband for Baltimore, and one husband for cousins or something. So the story is, dudes came down, went in there and killed the two dudes, right? But then they tried to say, "Cat I," you know, mean, no, the person who came in there did the killing. So they tried to tell us who Cat I was. Cat I was my brother Tony, Stanford, okay. So they said that, um, Cat I was in there and he did the killing. But the police know, Cat I ain't doing it, but we know you ain't doing it. We know your brother Molo did it, say he did it, and we let you go. So Cat I said, my brother Molo wasn't at that party, right? And so he did 40 years in that motherfucker, and they had, for something he didn't do, and then they had to do Jojo Cabrero, who act like he was a mother fucker, well, ballistic man, who analyzed the bulls and all that shit and helped convict him, my brother. You didn't get me on that phone and shit, and he wasn't even had licensed another that shit to be who he say was he forwards to the papers on all that shit. And they found out he forwards to the shit. And with he did, it was committed suicide once they found out he was a fraud. He sent five thousand motherfucker to prison and they let him get his pension before he killed herself. So this, this fraudulent forensics expert, right, put away thousands of innocent dudes with sketchy, sketchy evidence, and your brother was one of them. And he just came home. Cat I just came home a couple of years after 40 years for two bodies that he didn't commit. Right. So so he's already gone by the time he's already locked up. By the way, think about that loyalty. Yeah, you know, I'm no, I didn't do him, but I'm not going to say you did it. Right. It's incredible. So he was already arrested by the time that you got arrested for. Yeah, I think, and my mind it was three years later when they arrested me, and I had about 30 motherfuckers witnessed that he's seen me kill these people. It wasn't a cat. They seen me kill. Right. But I had a car driver who was a witness to see I was in his cab and the woman at the Phil state said, I was came to the Phil station with this car driver. And I was arguing about because he couldn't catch a hundred dollar bill. And I had a VHS consent plan when they first came out. So you know, I say he wanted me to leave that in the cab, but leave my girl in the cab where I goes up in 70 front of 725 building to get some change, you know what I mean? And so I say, would I fuck I look like leave my woman in the car with you? I don't know who the fuck you is. It's the cab driver. So I say, you know, you don't want to have motherfucking change. You're a cab driver. So we are going to shit in the cab. So I say, well, look, I need a motherfucker machine here. Me and my girl going up and we be back down. So we came back down and went to the Phil station got changed. A great soda and a butter skyscraper and some fucking cotton of coos or something. And then the woman came in the court said, yeah, it was me. I was on with the cab driver. And I'll, you know, because it could catch a hundred dollars. The cab driver was saying they didn't want to fucking. Couldn't catch a motherfucker hundred dollars. And he had a cab driver. He should have all this shit, right? So that's the way I got off from beating that because they believe the cab driver and the woman at the Phil station and believe these so-called doping motherfuckers, you know, not only. So after that. So get to the point. The ones that cat out. He were locked up with that. He was still locked up when they came and arrested me for these motherfucking charges. It was murder for a dude that was down 725. Just where the dude got killed that 725 and front of 725 building got shot in the heat and shit. Like they said, dude, jumped up on a table with a black hoodie on and shot them in the heat and stuff like that. And then they said they had witness in everything. Well anyway, they shot them in the heat and all this shit. So then they said, they said, I turned around and then shot the witness in the feet and told him, get the fuck away with it. So I'm saying, if I was the motherfucking kill they saw him. So why don't they kill this motherfucker. She just who has niggin the fleet and the foot and shit let them leave a witness. Right. Yeah. So anyway, so Joseph Caparo for the wreck it. This motherfucker was going all my motherfucking murders. Joe Caparo is who? Joseph Caparo was a preventive right. He was on all my cases. Right. Trying to get you. Trying to get me back in the 80s. Right. Oh, we're in the 80s. Like early 80s on the homicides and all this shit. This motherfucker was on every piece of paper that I got. And I were there originally or like arresting you for these murders. So just witnesses like they had with this one. How did they arrest? They had line witness. They had people that came in there and said, I wasn't the motherfucking one. They killed the, they know the people who killed them and all that. And they got witness saying who killed them and all that. I got a police report saying who she said she's saying to do who killed them. She normed them over the sister we live at. He killed the motherfucker. Look there on the face and went rampant with the gun in the hand and all this shit then gets with the homicide police say. What a problem with that is this one transcript of what the police report was a problem with that is we already looking for a suspect. We already have a suspect and the suspect that suspect was me. Yeah. I mean, because they didn't want the other motherfucker who she say she's seen in all this shit. So the girl who was on a mountain and she'd say she seen me kill the motherfucker and the woman then a hundred years over by I spoke with this motherfucker and big thick and size of Coca-Cola bottle back in the day. She said she seen me two football fell away with a goddamn gun in my hand. And that was their only witness. Yeah, the line to get to who goes up on the point say, you know, I mean, it definitely wasn't nobody. She's seen the living around there. It was a strange dude. She's seen with the city on the scene. Did they have any other evidence? No. Wow. Did you think? And I wasn't even me. I know that she didn't want any of that shit. Where were you at the time that the murder actually happened? Well, I was at this girl named Debbie. Because I was fucking the girl Debbie at the time and did you have her as a wife? And a wife? But did you have? Did you use Debbie as like an alibi? Yeah, I ain't one of you. So you know why? I don't know. It was going to sound crazy. Because I had a wife at the time and I didn't post enough that motherfucker. It's worth it. Yeah, it's worth it. Yeah, but man, I ain't want to hurt her. No more. I say fuck that shit. But it wasn't a man anyway. It was already fixed for us. So did you think you had action at trial? Did you, did your lawyers think you were going to beat it? Well, I knew I was going to fucking print and I say, man, it's because the state's attorney. Well, let me get this for you. Okay. So at the state child, we were dead murder, right? So I lost that murder. And then the murders took us a conspiracy to commit murder with me and five other so-called co-decented for murder, the post, been a witness to a redo, the guy killed down there that my brother to murder, a person charged with killing the dude. So the witness pose, the guy killed down there. And the witness got killed. And this line rat motherfucker said it was, I was dead when I told my car to me and say, yeah, I was dead when the motherfucker got killed. And all this shit. So they put me on a scene and check it out. I was doing four years from buying some motherfucking bullets, right? So I've been on four years upwards, buying some bullets. My brother and them got a conspiracy couldn't admit murder, right? My brother to murder, that cat, I stand for to murder stand for and three other co-decented, right? So an HR's, the charge is setting up, killing their own cousin who pose been a witness to this shit is crazy, man. So what happened was it went to court and shit, it was going to air herds and everything, right? That's what they do to me. They took me out on the motherfucking writ, brought me to Baltimore. I said, what the fuck I'm doing down here? So they put me in court and they say, who are you? I said, my model base, right? So he said, to murder stand for. I said, no, I'm not a model base. He said, what you saying? I'm a liar. So I say, no, sir, you're on it. He said, didn't you just leave my courtroom of $250,000, $250,000, $250,000 now, Bill? So I said, no, sir, you're on it. I'm lying. I said, I ain't saying you'd lie, and you're on it. You got the wrong one. You thought about my brother to murder, not me. He didn't want to get on bail. So it's a dog of it, right? Say, whether there's two of y'all. So they looked at like, what the fuck? You don't probably have no question like that. So they took me out, just say, take him out. Like, looking at anybody, looking at each other, like, take him out to the bullpen. The man said, man, you better get a lawyer. I said, get a lawyer. He said, yeah, you better get a lawyer. He took me out. Look at this shit, chill, but I'm talking about my fucking home. They took me out in my fucking bullpen. Right, I sit down there and I'm bullpened all motherfucking day. And that's when he came back and said, man, you better get a lawyer. And they put me on a charge with my brother and them. They had herds in every motherfucking thing. They've been a court in all this. They put me right in trial with them, and get the lawyer Paul Weiss, right? Got them in that motherfucker. He represent me and shit, like they charge me an open court, arrange me and all that shit in the open court. They ain't think of print me another that shit. They use old thing of prints and shit and got all this shit. I got all that proof. And so then they sent me to my fucking prison. So man, my brother to murder, we said in that, I saw we got the double life in 20 years. I got double life in 20 years. You got double life in 45. Okay, so you were sentenced ultimately through all this, you're sentenced on the murder and the conspiracy to commit murder. Okay, guys. if your brother, it was a state conspiracy case for a witness who got killed. That's so crazy, by the way. Like, check his out. Just you guys being identical twins got you roped into that. - I'm gonna tell you how I got dead. Look, I was locked up, right? So I was locked up from buying some bullies. At the farm range, you know, who's at the farm range? Take a little bit of the plot, put it together, like dead, back in that time. So, you know, so you were in the feds for that. - Yeah, I was in the farm range, shooting motherfuckers, so they said, you know, you bought my, so we're at my car home, but in the motherfucker FBI asked for my phone and called my wife, so the FBI asked for my phone. So I ain't nobody's FBI for it. Wipe my fucking ass from the phone with the fuck. So I hung up, I see my, my mom dialed my mom on my fucking number, so I dialed again. Well, no cell phones in the whole issue during the time. So I was gone after the press man by the '71. So then I called again, a white man's phone. So I see man, which is my rap, but I see man, dialed my motherfucker number, man. And so he dialed and he said, white man's phone, what are you doing there? I thought, what the fuck you think he doing there? What the fuck is, how's that phone, right? So I called back and home inside the feds, took him and said, "Ma, will you just step down "to the big boy league?" And my wife's at the time, she said, "Ma, the FBI." He said, "You just step into the big boy league." I hung up my fuck up and called Stein. So when I called Stein, I said, "With the FBI, "I looking for me, there was this at my home, "so I know all this shit fine." So I had to call him back in two hours, right? So he said, so I asked him what it was. So I said, Stein, so what it was? He said, "Ma'am, did you go to gun range?" So I said, "Yeah." He said, "You fired some bullets." I said, "Yeah." He said, "You signed the receipt." I said, "Yeah, get to the motherfuckin' port, man." What the fuck going on? So he said, "Ma'am, that's what they want you for." I said, "From buying some motherfuckin bullets." Man, he had a day, man. I felt like I was long on the world. Well, dumb as motherfuckin' criminals, you know what I mean? 'Cause if I knew that, I wouldn't be buying some motherfuckin' bullets and signed a motherfuckin' receipt for the bullets. That's how I got to four years, and I was hold on every since then. - So you were right, you didn't see daylight. - And so they hit me with all these. - And you got a rear-rested, the nightmare. So your sentence, your state sentence, which I think would shock a lot of people, they would think you were doing life in the feds for this huge grand drug murder conspiracy. You actually go to the state, you've got a life sentence plus 20? - Yeah, double life plus 20. - Double life plus 20. - See, this side of shit was all fucked up. See, the feds know that we ain't do this shit. They knew this shit was all made up shit. 'Cause if it was so, feds would've been came on our ass. You didn't wanna say that if they had something, but this made up shit. - Can I ask you this? - You guys are these ballers. You got tons of money. Where are your thousand dollar hour lawyers? What are your lawyers doing? - Man, I'm gonna tell you something about that. - I hate bad lawyers. - No, these motherfuckers, they said they was working for the organization for years. They was getting paid. We was paying them off. Every case we get the organization, they represent us and they could show that they was getting that motherfuckin' money 10,000 hours every week or whatever the case may be. How many thousands a week, you know, they was getting shit. These lawyers, they say was on the payroll. So, they lawyers are on the payroll usually. So, you had lawyers, you mean you were paying the prosecutors? - No, our lawyers that was representing us, they were saying they were representing us for years and they was gonna hit 'em with tax invasions and all this shit locked the ass up. So, they came to the bullpen, little of the crime. And they say, what's wrong? So, they say, man, we can't represent y'all anymore. It's crime, all of them. They say, man, they say, we represent you again. They're gonna lock out the ass up. They ain't say, lock out the ass up. They say, they're gonna lock us up, man. They're gonna lock us up. So, I said, yeah. So, I looked at Timur, I said, man, I told you, we done. Wow. We done. They got all this y'all already planned out. I said, man, go ahead. You know, you ain't got to represent us anymore. I told Timur that. So, he said, go ahead, man. Total lawyers, go ahead. We ain't taking no lawyers down another that shit. You know, it's a man, go ahead y'all, go ahead. So, when they were talking about John Gotti, you know, me respectfully, John Gotti. You know, I respect that you buy. They say, he, it was a lawyer couldn't represent them no more and all that, that's how serious he was. Oh, man, they did that shit to us. First. In the 80s. Our lawyers, about three four lawyers couldn't represent them or was crowned to be crowned in the bullpen and the old post office came back in and said, you know, we can't represent them or they say, we represent y'all, man, they're gonna lock out the ass up too. You ain't got to represent us. We, we going down any motherfucking way. They're taking us down. It's already set. And so, to murder, so yeah, so I say to murder, then when I went to court, the motherfucker next day, didn't motherfucking put shit in the game. I said, yeah, I'm going down. This fucking week went on, tick me. This motherfucker, he's state's attorney at the time. He was so motherfucking good man in that performing. He had me convinced I killed the motherfucking I and he killed him. That's how good he was. I said, man, when the bullpened, the mother was wrong. I said, man, we going to motherfucking prison. You say why you say that? I say, man, we, and tick that his, tick that was so motherfucking good man, he convinced me, I could, did the murder 90, do the motherfucker. So I know what the deal we're going to think. They found my ass killed him off of essentially no evidence. Right. We have one lady, he shot him like this and all this shit. And the forensic guy, he was there with, he was on a case, yeah, he was shot outside with him on the case. He said that shit, too, but the bulls and all that bullshit. Was it shocking to be in the courtroom to just hear lies after lies after lies? Yeah, that is nigga, and then Kevin Baker came in there and said, "Fuck you my little big tank scared of you." And the courtroom, I had about six polices around me, you know, me and the courtroom is shit. And this bitch, way on the other side of courtroom, and he said, I said, I'm gonna kill him in this whole family. I say, man, what the fuck is it? Was telepathic communication or something like that? My fucking nobody heard me say that and he could have done it. I believe you said it. So I looked at the motherfuck police on and I said, man, you hear this shit, do you hear me say anything? Put the head down, I was like, got down right now and say nothing of the bitch, fuck you whole. So he was there alive, just he was a witness that they brought in. Yeah, with bulletproof head, where the shit all on them is shit. So they made this a spectacle. This is like a, they performed. This is like a kangaroo court, yeah. It's kind of like what they did with rafal Edmonds familiar with him out of D.C. Well, I don't know, I'm busy with that. I heard him. They brought in like a military helicopter to bring him to court. And you know, they treated him like a son of the law. See, I'm gonna tell you something. See, our case, right? They did a lot of shit now. Okay, then they started doing the other people. And see like when I was down, what was it? Down Supermax, they took it from Supermax and took it up North Branch. And what had me is when they took an oil fence, they had motherfucking helicopter fired my bus. All we up North Branch, cutting off the high weeds and all this shit, police car stuff and high weed. And all this shit, thinking the motherfucking was gonna come and get me, you know, for escaping all this shit, right? All we up to the company and then shit. Like it's all on the newspapers. You could look back and see in '86, '87. Something like rude can tell you, what year we went up there. You were, as the Jamaican say, you were a bod mod. You were a bad motherfucker, man. Okay, so I'm a good motherfucker. No, I like you a lot. No, I'm saying I've been to good motherfuckers. They shit out of a side. When they shit out of a side. They see it in a lot of fucking side. They never wanted to see. You would have beat those charges today. Now, you would have been convicted for other murders 'cause they probably would have got you on camera. But juries don't go for that bullshit anymore. They want to see evidence. 'Cause we know how much the government lies now. Like normal people know that they're being fucked by the man always, but this was a different time. With a lot more racism, a lot more. Well, we just believe that the cops wouldn't lie like this. Yeah, that's what my parents would say back in the day. And check it out. Now they're all like, yeah, these are scumbags end to end. Check it out. All this shit I was telling you about, see, I won't set up here. It's you. We don't do no motherfucking mind. I hate a lie motherfucking. You didn't say it 'cause they always gonna get court telling a lie. 'Cause once you know the truth, you know the truth. You're gonna keep repeating the truth. But once you lie, you gotta remember that lie. And a lot of motherfucking things are gonna remember. A lot of things are running and saying no to them. Now, all this shit I said got on them. I got paperwork, Politi Post, Marlowe Stantfield, A.K.A. Marlowe Beaks. Tamera Stantfield, A.K.A. Marlowe Beaks. They think we was one person. His shit and my shit. You go down to archives and pull the file, you'll see. They thought we were the same person. They scratched out Tamera, Marlowe Stantfield, and put Marlowe Beaks. They scratched out Tamera Stantfield for Beaks. I got them, they didn't know that shit. So they go to show you. They thought I was him and he we was one. That's why they put me in the open court with them. With that conspiracy shot. And they brought me down here. They put it should've gone for Tamera Stantfield and Marlowe Beaks. See, 'cause it's on his paper, Tamera Stantfield, A.K.A. Marlowe Beaks, but they pushed a warrant for Tamera Stantfield and Marlowe Beaks. So they brought me down there. He was already down there and they brought me down there and put me right in the trial with him. I got all that back in the way. But I did 37 month of fucking years now. - And your brother did how much? - Your brother did how much? - Kind of I did 40, Tamera did 38. - Wow. So, you guys now both are double-edged. Life sentences, you're cooked, did you think you were going to spend the rest of your life in there? - No, see God, I believe, see my calling, I think my calling in life is to see other people happy. I always felt that every since I was little, I like seeing other people happy, I don't like saying people say it, right? But the motherfuckers who fuck up, I don't give a fuck, I don't feel sorry for them, I just hate them bully motherfuckers. So, my calling and saying other people happy, and I knew I was going to get back out, but I didn't know when. But I had a feeling when they came over that I'm Greek or home, because I say God wanted me to do all the things he wanted me to do, helping people. Because if you're going to jail, they can't move me different jails and shit, putting on ministry and all that. And then one time I asked God, you know what I mean, my mother was sick as God, you know what I mean, that my mother lived and shit, you know, I ain't going to do no more, no more this shit, I'm going to do everything you want me to do. And the God say fuck you, I ain't doing shit, I want you to feel what anybody else feels. So, he let my mother die and that shit, fuck me, I was fucked up for a while, I was cursed God and everything, right? And then it hit me one day, I say I know what it is, you know, because one day I say take me, take me, won't you take me, stop taking away all my family matters, my mother died, my sister died, my sister died, my brother died, friends was dying like a motherfucker, right? So I say I know what it, just take me, man, you know what I mean, I'm talking about, I was taking me, so God said nah, I want you to feel what anybody else feels. So what it is is, yeah, that's deep, and I felt that so, you know, man, so I say fuck it, I'm gonna do what you want me to do and all that stuff, and, you know, I've been helping people can for people, but he wanted me had that mindset, you doing not to be soul motherfucker me and hurt, hurt just like that, you know what I mean? He wanted, because God wanted me, they would have been having me killed, die off and all this shit, my oldest shit, I'm going on in life, you know what I'm saying? But he ain't letting me read and everything, because he was holding this for me, he wanted me to do his work to go ahead and help our people, man, help better ourself and become as one man is strong, and don't be used like it's going to be being used. And they plan the race card with each other and all this shit, but it's the people in high places, man, you gotta just get it together, everybody got to come to government and stop hating each other for shit you being used. How many people here like, man, you you like man use, I guess not, I don't think no way, you like man use, nobody like man use. So when would a fuck we going to stop man use, we falling into the hand, we doing a shit they want us to do, but how did you, so that that's really deep that you, you suffering through the death of your family members, you got to feel what it was like, you know, to, of the family members that maybe people that you hurt back in the day, right? How did you change in prison? Like, what did you do? Obviously, there is parole in the state of Maryland. So even if you have a life sentence, you go before the parole board. I went in front of my phone and gave me shit, one day one, one let me go. How many times do you go to the board before? Well, only day only let me go to my phone, about two, three times in the 37 years I was in it, right? But do you feel I had a accident and had a fraction of a ticket, you know, about 30 some years. So you had a pretty good prison record. What were you doing in there? I stopped people from, I stopped people from getting killed, stop people from getting raped. I stopped gang wars, I stopped people from, you know, anything getting bullied and shit. I got people out of games. I got people, you know, me, leave people alone and shit. Rise and shit. Come on, man. They where we got to get the fuck out of here. You know how people you talk riding the shit. We ain't gonna get no visits. We ain't gonna sell people and all this shit. So, you know, it's the way you can do it. Can't know anybody do that. You got to be well loved and respected, man. And I give respect. Did you do any time with your brother? Yeah, that's not both of them. I left my brother a cat. I'll tell you. He liked me and that motherfuckin Zelda. He said, Oh, you guys were sold up together too? No, I mean, cat. I first was man to murder sell buddies. We sell buddies for years and shit. That motherfucker. He had a little brother. He handed me a cat. He think he runs shit. That's tomorrow on the street. So, you know, and he think he runs shit. Like, he's a big brother, but he earned us, you know, I listen to him, dude. That's my motherfuckin heart, dude. And Kada, I got an ass. So, man, Tamir, get the organ and shit. So I used to drink. I was alcohol. I'm on the street and in the prison. So, I can see that. Yeah. So I was drinking. I don't drink. Why he drinks since '95. So, um, we was off cell, but so Tamir used to make a homemade wine for me and shit, right? So, I drink as just, so he said, man, you smell like goddamn wine and shit. So, I say, what? He said, yeah, man, it's come up your motherfucking pool. I said, man, why are you talking to me like that? He said, man, Goddamn, could you just just stinkin' man. So, I say, man, I just got up the shower with the fuck you talking to me like that for, right? So, I said, you want my motherfucking brother fuck you up? Do we need little no more fucking more, right? And so, he said, God damn, he jumped off the bunk bed. I was up on the, I'll be on the bottom. He jumped off the top, right? So, you know, I ain't gonna fight my brother or my brother. So, he jumped off, I said, I'm tired. You're shitin' all over. Bain. Bain, the fish are ready. He brought me one of the big ready. I love that ready, you know, too. So, he ain't got anybody in the jail. I had one of the motherfuckers. So, he brought me a big fish and ready, you know, and she just brought the motherfucker about three days ago. He only had it for about three days. He hit that motherfucker, boom, but when everything motherfucking well, he was my son. I said, God, that's a hard hit motherfucker, right? Tell him it's love, right? So, I say, Goddamn, know what the fuck you do that to my ready, yo, man. You just brought me that goddamn ready, yo. I'm sorry, you know, I'll buy you another one. I say, "Damn T." And he called me and shit. I said, "Man, I love you, man." But I was saying, "It's motherfuck, I took a shout on everything. I'm drinkin' the motherfucking wine." He said, "Smell it out my pores and shit." He said, "He ain't makin' it no motherfucking more because I smelled the wine. Come out my pores and shit." So, and you got sober after that? Did you get sober after that? Hell, no, that motherfucking made me another pie to that shit. So, what I did, what I did, what I had was, in the cell is top and bottom bunk, right? So, I'm steepin' this way and he's steepin' the same way. So, when I'm breathing against the wall, the shit, you know, the baronets here come to hit the wall and goin' up. So, he's like, "What the fuck?" So, that's what it was. So, I stepped down the other way and shit like that, right? And so, then he spit out ass stuff. But you were, you were, because most guys with double life sentences, they go in there, assuming they're never gonna get out, you know, a lot of times they, they don't cool off until much later. And they, you know, they're getting a lot of shit, right? But you had faith that you were gonna see the parole board. Like, do you feel lucky? Because most states, much less the feds, you go in there with two life sentences, you're leaving in a bag. So, do you feel, even though, like, how do you feel? You were, you really were a, a criminal, all due respect, a violent criminal, part of a violent drug trafficking organization. You go down for a murder, you didn't do. Double life sentence, but you got out, that's right. But, but you got out. So, I mean, there's all these, there's a mix of emotions you must be feeling. Like, overall, do you feel like you won? So, it's like, it's with me. I don't look at it like that. You didn't go say, I look at it like it's, it's high beams, you know, it like people call it God or whatever the case may be, you know what I mean? I was only doing what I was guided to do. You didn't want to say, I wouldn't put it here to be seeing all the things I've seen in life, coming up being treated where I was as a kid and all this she couldn't read and everything and anybody else could read. So, I felt though I was special in the way that God wanted me to be or the high power who I love, whoever the case may be, you know, being made me the way he made me, you didn't want to say, I always got a good heart, always had a good heart, still got a good heart. And I was chosen to do this. Like I said, if he wanted to be gone, he could have been took me away. He wanted me here to do his work and that is the help of a people you're doing saying, I'm going to keep being me and I don't feel psi or regret being anybody else. You know, I'm not that person on me. I'm going to be me if I wasn't doing the things I did to be where I'm at here today, I wouldn't be me. So, I wouldn't change anything. I could not change it. I ain't no hard being me changing them. I know what I didn't like doing anymore. So, I chose not to do because I have to know how I was now with to do with not to do. I'm conscious of what I'm doing with not to do. So, I'm not going to set up here and do anything wrong. I was thinking I was defending myself and defending what belongs to me. And you didn't want to say this to people who belong to me on the street now and I'm going to be there for them and I'm going to defend them who I care about, who I think I love all people. But I love my people more because they need more help than I am as person. Do you feel some kind of way that your likeness, you know, who you are, your story was used to create one of the most iconic television shows of all time. And you weren't asked for permission, you weren't paid for it. Like, I don't know how do you feel, but also you're kind of a legend in this city and your name is a legend and, you know, for a generation like mine that grew up on that show. You have a brand. So, how do you feel about all that? See the show and your legacy. Like me is, I don't feel no kind of way and I respect anybody for feeling the way they do and some people ain't going to feel the way that I do the way a lot of people feel. You guys don't people might say fucking negating killed all don't people in all this shit, but a lot of people don't They don't know me. They don't know what I did, they're going about with their hair. But once they get to meet me there and see it, I'm not the person who would have betrayed me to be. But when I was coming up living that life, I did. I wasn't, I ain't used to laugh for nothing of that shit. I just thought all this shit when I came home and I learned how to read and got this sand. People were talking to people and shit like that, talking to bullies and tell them, man, they ain't the way to be, they ain't the way to current. Change your life for somebody, kill your ass. Stop taking advantage of you. You don't want nobody to take advantage of you. So just let this shit be, man. You putting people down and shit going to come on you. The energy, you kicking out bad energy, bad energy, you're going to come back when you, man. So I just tell my lot of people, just don't know. To your explain it to them, have a talk to them. It's the way you talk to people, man. And the way you treat people, I go by that 100%. You know, I'd die and go to hell with it for that, you know what I mean? I love all people, man. I just want them to do the right thing. That's the lid well, man. So what are the next steps? You've got a whole, a whole, all these years ahead of you. What have you been doing with yourself? Well, like I said, I'll be doing writing books, songs, plays, commercial, greeting, causing all that. I got all that stuff. So me, Rudy, Fraser, you know, they're going to bring all that to life. But once we start, you know, doing this, get the word out to people to try to say these lives and everything, I want to model, stand filled, you should initial, initial tier program to guide the children in the right way, giving them tools to work with. And I know 'cause I couldn't read them right, giving them tools. Yeah. Yeah, the first you got to let them know, you know, they got to do the better themselves, the better themselves, which a lot of them do that themselves. But they be putting situations that, you know. Well, plug the documentary that is basically brand new. It's out on Amazon Prime right now. Where can they find it? You know, find an OG network, too. Yeah, on OG network, okay. And Prime. Okay, cool. It was on Prime. Yeah, we have the producers sitting in the studio with us. Yeah, great. And it's my sister. I call it my sister, but that's it's what you're free to. And I'm your what, nephew? Yeah, it's my nephew, Johnny. That's what I mean. Yeah. So, but if you call, I don't know your name. John. John. John, damn John. Yeah. All right. Robert Rudy here, you know. So they would appreciate a shout out and we're going to put a link to all that. We're going to advertise all that. But where, what's the name of it? All over you can find Dr. Metry Mallow on Prime, Amazon Prime, and OG Dept Group. It's pretty good, man. It's pretty good. I don't hold shit back as you can see, man. I like speaking of truth, speaking of my mind. I don't like putting people down. I'm not going to do that. I don't like telling other people stories where we come from. They can tell their own stories. They can get their own money. They can get their own podcast. They do what they want to do, write their own books and anything else. You know, I don't want to take my buyouts, glory. Well, that's a question. Are you going to watch the wire? I think you should. But see, what did they enjoy it? See, I was seeing pieces of it, you know, pieces, and I had stories about it. And I was on the press and daddy killed a guy for two suckers, two fucking BB suckers. See, I used to eat BB suckers and shit. I eat a little dumb dumbs in season four, I bet. Carlo. Yeah. BBs, you call them BBs back on date, but yeah, that's it. I fuck you up, like in 2000, I think his character was introduced in like 2003 or four or something. Did that fuck you up when somebody came to you, like on the yard or whatever and say, you're not going to believe this. There's a show out there in the world. I know my buddy about you. Petty. A dude named Petty took him to see my old man, he did it to me, by else, why are you shaking in hands and shit. They know by, I said, don't you never say that, man, they somebody, somebody to me. I don't care about that shit man who they going drugs or something, they still, they friends of mine, man. Don't say that no more. You know, I got mad about that shit, don't be mad. But did it raise your status, like, were you kind of a celebrity in the Maryland prison system? No. I said no. Well respected, like I was well respected on the street when I was young. I mean, it's like, it's the type of person I am. Yeah. You're doing sand so with me, being happy, you can both fight, yeah, you know, a lot of people say, they mallow, stand, feelin' all that, man, won't you get on that and tell 'em name, mallow, stand for you, mallow, stand, feelin'. I say, man, I know who I am, so I don't gotta prove to nobody, they want to be mallow, stand, feelin', they can be mallow, stand, feelin'. I wish they would have been mallow, stand, feelin' 40 years ago when I got that courtroom, you know what I mean? I say, that's a matter of respect, man, that's honor to be me, you know what I'm saying? But I don't get mad at my people about that, want to be me and all that shit. I'd just say, be careful, don't try that shit that I did, you know what I mean? Years ago, you know, I ain't buyin', mallow, stand, feelin' all that, I don't think there would be another person like you, Marlow, you are as Baltimore as it comes, man, that was an honor. I appreciate it, you guys, go check out Marlow, it's, it's, you can't forget it, Marlow on Amazon Prime and OG Network, okay, did you, you must have a piece of that, that must be some new shit. I'm a iced tea. Oh, is that iced tea, is that work? Yeah, coming out. Which is over, buddy, night, ready? Big court. Yeah. I'm a local. Well, see, some about iced tea, right? Mm-hmm. Years ago when he was factin' and all that shit, I say, I'ma meet him one day. Oh wow, you look at that. I said that, I was gonna be Oprah, one day, then Zell wash and one day, and Holly Barry. Keep putting it out there, man, keep putting it out there. Marlow. You know, it's a, Floyd Mayweather, gotta talk to you, my brother, you know what I mean? Big respect. You know, number one, you're doing a sand, and I'll chin you on every cent still is, man. Keep, keep strong, brother, and taint, little taint, it's my little death for you, I love you. Marlow's stand field, the one and only, Marlow's stand field, right here on the connect, go check out Marlow on Amazon Prime, NOG Network. Uh, well, I just, I could do this all day, man. This was a real honor. Thank you guys. We'll see you next time. Take care.