The Real Cost of Having Kids (No One Talks About This) | Natasha Leggero & Sabrina Jalees

- I can already tell you're gonna be great moms. - Oh really? - You're gonna have everything all lined up for them. They're gonna like record their poops. - But one of you will have a mental breakdown. And I'll tell you which one by the end of the podcast. - Oh yeah, okay. - I feel like motherhood is quite a gauntlet. And it's like if I enter motherhood, I'm gonna be just so like fixated on it and wanna be the best at everything. - I think the proof is in if you ask any person that you really like respect the way they live their life, they're gonna say, this is it. This is the best part of my life. - I'm Jean, I'm Sheree. - I'm Sabrina. - I'm Natasha. - And we're the tiger sisters. - We are your Wall Street and Silicon Valley big sisters. And we're a top 10 business podcast bringing late-night sister talk meets boardroom strategy. - Okay Jean, you know I've said it before. Who you marry is the biggest decision you'll make in your life. But perhaps the next biggest decision is will you or won't you have kids or multiple babies? - Yeah, these are the questions that actually keep us up at night. And today on the show we're bringing on two special guests to get into the economics and the philosophical questions behind parenting. - Their weekly podcast Good Enough explores the middle ground between old and new school parenting. Today we're welcoming the brilliant Natasha Legero, a stand-up comedian, actress and producer. You've seen her on Chelsea Lately, Comedy Central and Netflix specials. And she is the best-selling author of The World Deserves by Children. - And we also have on Sabrina Jalice, the co-host of the podcast and also an incredibly talented stand-up comedian, actress and Emmy-nominated writer of Big Mouth and. - Search party. - Yay. - Alright guys, welcome to the tiger sisters podcast. - I just need to be sitting on the outside waiting to come in. It feels so nice to be on this side now with you guys. Tiger Sisters, we're so happy to be here. - Yay! Let's get into it. - Oh really? They're gonna know. You're gonna like record their poops and like. And I'll tell you, many. I'll tell you which one by the end of the podcast. - Oh yeah, okay. - Yeah. - Wait, I'm interested in that. - Aren't you supposed to record their poops? Okay, we'll get into that. - I did actually take a picture of my son's shit on the weekend. 'Cause it was my two-year-old pooped in the potty for the first time. - Oh, congrats. - You took a picture of it as like a camera. - I'll show it. - A memorable picture? - Do you guys want to see the picture? - No, nobody wants that. - It was so much poop. - It was like the freedom of like. - Sabrina. - Imagine shitting your pants for two years. And then finally having a receptacle to catch all of that shit. It was just like, it must have been like Kelly Clarkson's moment like this was playing and just, it was just flowing. - Wow. - It was like the size of three regulars. - Wow. - Yeah. - They've been holding that in. - That's right. - Sorry to bring it. We're comedians, so we're gonna. - Yeah. - We're gonna talk about that. - Yeah, right away. (laughing) - Definitely go there. - It's like a tick. (laughing) Okay, well let's start first with the decision to have children. So neither of us have any children. - I feel like we're, it looks like a confession. - Well you guys are a little, how old are you guys? - Do you want to guess? - 24 and 26. - Oh wow, that is a very kind. - All right, can I guess? - Yeah, you guess. - 33, 34. - Wow. - That's a little less kind. - Oh my God. - Well, you said kind, so I was just going. - So she was like, let me guess, 73 and one of you is about 80. - How old are you? - I'm 30. - Okay. - I'm seven years older. I'm 37. - Oh wow. - My kids have a six year age difference. - It's so good. - It's so cute that they're roasting a podcast together one day. - It's so good. - We can also cut this out if you don't want anyone to know. - What are you talking about? - We can talk about it. - Yeah, Aasha, why would we cut it out? I'm turning 41 in a week. - Ooh, how people's birthday. - Thank you. - That's exciting. - How I have to tell my age. - Yeah, well I'll go for it. - So I'm 52. - Yeah bitch. - But I always say 50. - Yeah. - Really? - And my daughter now is like, why are you telling people you're 50? You're 52 mom. Do you guys want to know a wisdom that my mother told me about growing up and getting older? So I was a teenage standup comic with a lot of teenage success in Canada. I was getting to my head one of these days, I was sort of feeling big in my britches. I probably was voted like top, top 20 under 20, the North York Gazette or something. And so I told my mom, I'm like, I think I'm going to have a really hard time getting older because I've had all this success as a youth. And she was like, oh yeah, you probably will. And I was like, what? And she was like, yeah, I mean, you're already planning on having a hard time getting older. So you definitely, you will. And I was like, oh, and she was like, but if you change your mindset, then you won't. So you just, you decide how you feel about it. Like if you want to feel about getting older, like you are collecting all of this wisdom and with getting older, you have certain power and that it's inevitable, then you won't have a hard time. So you can decide. And I was like, oh, this is kind of at the core of a lot of like the things I'm passionate about in my parenting is like reminding your kids that they have the choice to decide how they're going to take the world and then frame them. Well, piggybacking on that, I feel like the choice to have- And if you are watching, she is on my back right now. The choice to have kids, like, I was very career driven and I didn't really think about having kids and I'd never really, I just thought I'd skip it, you know? And then my therapist was like, oh, I think you're like a situational breeder. If the right situation arises, maybe you'll breed. And I was like, I think that is me in a situation ship with your child. No, I mean, at the right situation, meeting the right person really is what it's about. And then I met my husband and he really wanted kids. And he really wanted two kids. And I was like, I'm not going to have two kids. And then I like to talk, I was like, you know what? I think I'd be open to one. And then I was kind of simultaneously freezing my eggs just in case when I had met him. Smart. And- So how old were you then? 38. Okay. And so, and I, you know, I was confused because, you know, this is all new science for women. And so I didn't really understand and I think I got eight eggs. And eight eggs, because I was like, well, I only want one kid. What do I need eight eggs for, you know, but the eight eggs, once they defrosted them, transferred them to another place and then put, he blasted on them. And then that's not the scientific term. But, you know, he liked it as thing. And then science for women. Then they made the embryos. Then they were like four. Then they poked at them and tested for every single thing. Then there were two. Yeah. Then one went up me. Yeah. And then said, then I have my daughter. She was the last one. So out of eight, I had a 30% chance of getting one out of eight eggs. Okay. So, if you can freeze embryos, that's better. If you can do two rounds, I only did one round. I couldn't afford to do two rounds at the time and I barely, I didn't even think I'd use it anyway. Yeah, the tiger approach, I would think, would be to do two or three rounds. I'm dead serious. I mean, if we're talking sort of like, here we are. You're in your 30s. You're in your, you know, this is the time, I mean, I'm sure you've already frozen, right? I have. Yeah, your tiger. I did two rounds. Yeah. Well, you did do two rounds. You don't need me to tell you this stuff. Yeah, great. Well, I feel like you needed to do two rounds because I feel like on the first time you didn't retrieve enough eggs and then you were pretty nervous. Sounded a little critical. You didn't retrieve enough eggs. It also was good that she didn't make embryos, too, because you didn't know who you wanted to be with. Well, I was on the verge of engagement at the time. Oh my gosh. Let's get into it. Oh my God. And then you. Oh, thank you. So my partner, well, my ex partner, my ex fiance, we got engaged. Yes. And it was like right before we got engaged, but we had been together for a long time. We had been together for seven years. Oh my gosh. We went together the whole time. Congratulations. You are in whole new chapters. Sliding doors of your life. You are in. He can't believe it. He can't believe it. He can't believe it. He can't believe it. Well, he watches all my Instagram stories of my sister. Oh my gosh. I'm like, what are you doing? I am like a, I had such fertility ups and downs from the, the journey of the first kid. We met a surfer in Mexico. I said, can I have some urges? He said, yes. I literally threw it in my wife in an Airbnb baby comes out. I'm like, oh, this is easy. Well, you didn't throw a used one of those like needle without a needle or syringe with a dog catheter attached, actually. Wait, like, you used a turkey based? Yes. Yes. That's the method. Maybe they made it seem like so much giz comes out, I thought it was going to be a home a bucket of jizz, it was muipoko jizz and if you could not use a turkey baster that would be way too big. It wouldn't work. It would not work. My first prototype I cut it the thumb of the dish glove and then duct taped it shut and then put a hole at the end and both are donor and my wife were like what the fuck do you think we're gonna be doing? You guys want to fight? I'm gonna pipe the icing in. But anyway what we ended up using was a needle that I need all this to say first baby easy peasy 11's we see second baby was my egg his sperm in Shauna in my wife and that was like bad clinic in Mexico you know two years wasted then it was like I was like maybe I get pregnant maybe I'm like you know but you guys have you had such a vision for your family which was two children like yes and I was like very clear vision and I was like by any means necessary like a lunatic like a cross-eyed lunatic no that's like just aggressively like I needed this which I am starting to realize is part of a personality problem of it. It's both like the sharp side of the sword is like bitch is gonna get it if she wants it but the the the dull side of the same sword is like I waste a lot of mental energy I think fixating and I'm realizing this with my hip right now I had like a torn hip situation and I immediately started googling like oh my god I'm gonna need surgery I'm gonna need but we got a Mexico time to go to make someone needs to put gizz on my hip but yeah but with time of taking a little time off pickle ball it's healing and get all this to say I have taken us way off course but only to say that I have been like a burnt tree from the forest walking up to saplings being like you've got a freeze eggs and you're not just eggs you've got to make embryos because embryos are the way but now you're telling me there's new information and that eggs are are almost just as viable but think how crazy that is it's just because people have started giving this science a little bit of attention you know it's like it's brand new and when I did it like people weren't even doing it really like now it's it's so important to like get this get this going think about all the movement with my hip that could happen if someone just gave a shit about one the left sort of hip of a woman well I'm very impressed that you got your two your two-kid family yeah I believe my philosophy was one as an accessory to his a lifestyle and so I was more of the accessory I can see your eyes lighting it I do love having one child but it's hard because you know it's she doesn't have anyone to play with when she's at home so there's a lot of play dates and you know Sabrina's wife is watching her right now with their child that's right yeah our art is it been friends for as long as we've been friends pretty much yeah three days when we first started sisters matcha did you have any idea how many random jobs we'd be doing no in the early days we were doing everything we were sourcing our matcha we were coding the website designing the packaging running the marketing we were basically our own mini little company yeah I mean not to mention we went to Japan and we literally picked the matcha by hand exactly and one of my favorite things about Shopify is sidekick sidekick is basically like having an AI co-founder oh I love it it helps you analyze sales trends optimize your storefront create promotions the list goes on which is funny because we just did a tiger sisters episode on how to use AI to become healthier happier and hotter because instead of being stuck in spreadsheets all day we can work on the parts of the business that we love which is building sisters matcha and connecting with our community so if you're building something or even just thinking about it start your free trial today at shopify.com/tiger sisters now back to the show okay so we have a great stat here on fertility and having kids so as of 2026 the US Congressional Budget Office reported that US fertility rates are projected to be 1.58 to 1.63 births per woman which basically means that it's a continuation of the long term downward trend that we've been seeing data shows that it dropped you an all-time low of 1.6 kids per person in 2024 and is expected to remain there for a few years we used to ask ourselves why wouldn't you have kids but now it seems to be why would you especially when they come out as 0.6 of a human how does that work which side would you want I don't the head I guess top top torso yeah definitely the head yeah did we answer your question next question okay no no the question is to tell them why we because my husband told me you have to stop telling people that they have to have kids but I have you have to have kids do you have kids or yeah I don't imagine you have an angel who doesn't know about anything bad in the world who doesn't have a phone who's like they're just like these like she's just robbing her husband no I'm not at all I'm saying like you just get to be in contact with these beautiful souls yeah they're just so you and eventually you know I do feel like they're angels I love to travel I love to like squeeze the juice out of life and the idea of like putting some of your own needs and desires and money on on the shelf so that you could pursue this other path I understand why that's like daunting and I totally get it but there's just I think the proof is in if you ask any person that you really like respect the way they live their life how they feel about their child they're gonna grab you by the shoulders or not depending on how touchy they are and they're gonna say in the with like the realist line read this is it this is the best part of my life right it's like that is it's just the best it's like to have that connection I think it's like it's almost like we have really good kids though we do but you could get like a bad one good kid no I don't think that you get a bad one I think that I think something goes bad along the way even if there's a behavioral issue I do think like then that's this that's the ride you're on then you're on that ride and it's how you handle that ride and when you when you actually answer the call of whatever the issue is then you're addressing it in a way that that becomes your unique path through and obviously like the anomaly of having a child that's like inevitably gonna murder you or has like extreme mobility issue I don't want to like pretend like that doesn't exist but the path of just the journey of being like a parent is the best one of all and I do think it's like we're playing a video game and you're like playing one level and you're like oh my god this is so exciting in your life and then the next level is to like shepherd and it's like and the dimension changes right and you're like watching someone else play or something your value shift and you're you all of a sudden are okay with being degraded on a daily basis oh my god the bruise that I have I had this bruise right here so the first layer of the bruise wasn't my fault I was actually playing tennis with Wolfie yesterday and I smacked my leg but it was right after I was teaching him a lesson about like you've got to just take things in stride man because he was getting frustrated so then I like just pulverized my leg and then later on I was putting him to sleep and he need that exact bruise if you have a bruise your child is gonna use that on it in elbow or in need of press on it that's just sort of what's gonna happen but yeah yeah you should have a baby well I love hearing you guys talk about it I think deep down I I know I want to have kids god willing like three I'll have one and see how I feel about it but there's that part of me I'm like okay I want kids but then they're another part of me that's like much more surface level is like it sounds terrifying I'm so scared about like when I'm pregnant what's gonna happen to my body I see all these take talks about like pregnancy nose and you have to tape down your nose and then you know I don't see nose yeah it does I've seen this rarely happen oh what happens to the million gets flat like it gets really big and people are like taping down their nose now to like sleep so their nose doesn't expand and like the ankles I'm a physically I'm like very terrified of that I was too and that's what my book the world deserves my children I write a few chapters about that and I just scheduled my C section I can do that schedule the C section well because the idea of like my water breaking while I'm in public like I couldn't get over that like I was just like this sounds horrifying and civilized isn't horrifying if you're just I remember my mom told me she was like at a meeting and then your water breaks and my dad was out of town and you know it's like I just had this idea like I'd be in the Costco like trying to call an Uber and like all this water I don't know like I was you're not like specifically the kind of like like portlandia character that's like and I just love birthing children which your wife is no but she but she was horrified and it was two C sections it was back to back C session but I will say so at one point I did get pregnant I did lose the baby at three and a half months it was traumatizing and I mentioned it every time I'm on a podcast because I'm like I think it's so bullshit that people don't talk about miscarriage it isn't a potential outcome and so many the longer you wait to have children it just is part of what can happen yeah and I think by not talking about it and acting like it's like um bloody Mary or something like if you say it then it shows up it's like no it's just chromosomal abnormalities and like even in the name miscarriage it sounds like mistake misstrial like I fucked up yeah like I Amelia the Deelia the baby and Like I was like, "Can't be the baby on now." I left it in an Uber. But before I lost the baby, I was in this situation that never thought I was gonna get pregnant. It was just sort of a desperation after paying for IVF and it didn't work out. And I'm like, "All right, let me try and. " But it's really weird how your mind changes, because I was always like, "Why would anyone not get a C-section?" It's like truly the things that could go wrong in childbirth. And I know there's this huge, we watch documentaries about like the industrial complex in surgery, the complex in hospitals and how it's like financially beneficial for them and for their schedules. But what I will say is, if there was like this, you're growing this baby. And this is the way I was thinking before I got pregnant. You're growing this baby and the actual studies of what could happen, the complications during childbirth and it's going through this canal, versus the valet system of like we're cutting, we're bringing the baby out, the chances of your baby, even like 1% higher of the chances of your baby being healthier, you go with that. And truly, you do, but then what happens when you're pregnant, Natasha, you are smart to avoid, and I know a lot of women who are like practical and they're like, "Of course, I'm going to do that." And I can also hear the like the drum beat of like a lot of granola women listening to, like this dumb, dyke, no wonder you miscarried bitch! But like, first of all, rid. Second of all, I did feel the way the granola felt when I was pregnant. It's like, but what if my pussy's like made for birthing? Like what if it's just going like a bathtub lady, like all the women who want to give birth in the bathtub? I became kind of like, well my body was made to do it. I think that you just, once you start to get pregnant, you start to enter this like motherhood Olympics kind of, where you're like, "I'm going to do it actually perfectly." You like start to like feel like it's time to fly close to the sun. And on the outside, on the outside of it, I'm like, of course, get a C-section, but I also can speak to feeling pregnant and feeling like, "I'm going to pop it out in 30 seconds of what's going to happen to me." I mean, I'm a little bit scared of that because my personality is already so similar to yours, where like I'm very like achievement oriented. I always, you know, always been an A-plus student. I want to do the best in everything that I do. I feel like motherhood is quite a gauntlet. And it's like, if I enter motherhood, I'm going to be just so like fixated on it and want to be the best at everything, like do the best everything for my children. Remember Marie Kondo's? And she wrote that book and then she had like one more kid and she's like, "I don't do that anymore." She's like, "I don't do their socks." I don't, you know, it's like she just kind of like came out publicly and was like, "I was wrong." I can't stand behind this anymore. So like that does happen, I think. But you know, maybe in 10 years, you'll be ready for like a new personality. I think also, yeah, like it's okay for part of your spirit to break. If it's like the perfectionist spirit, then that, you know, I think where we are different is like I am an A-student, but I'm like taking a lot of shortcuts and trying to chill out a lot. But I am going to pay you for your notes. I'm going to pay you for your notes. We'll show up to the same test. But you have to understand the reward. The rewards are things you can't really consider as someone without kids. What do you mean? Well, like the other day, my daughter said, "You know, do you believe in God?" And I was like, "Yeah, you know, I believe in God." She goes, "I think God is hope plus love." And I'm like, "That's real. I never thought of it like that." Like she's teaching me like deep truths, you know? And it's like, "How could that, how could you get?" And it's like not coming from a mentor. Yeah. It's coming from someone that you're trying to tease. So it's like, and I never said that. You're like the only people that we know that aren't addicted to our phones. Exactly. It's so special. You're like, the hype is real, basically, is what you're saying. Yeah. The raw and tomato score is true. And also, Jean, about your sort of like predisposed, you're like, "Oh shit, I'm going to be like a perfectionist about parenting." Yeah. Then listen to my mom's words about like, "Well, or you could say I'm going to use parenting as an opportunity to break some of the habits that are not really worthwhile for me." Like I think my wife has a bigger arc in just like she grew up with like, military cleanliness. They all like folded the sheets to their bed. It all looked perfect. And the house was tidy. And I mean, she can't focus without a tidy house. And you and Natasha and her, we were together all on our podcast last week. And they were relating to this. But from the outside, I see for my wife, there has been an arc of a little bit breaking her spirits with it, which is kind of rewarding. It's not sustainable to have two kids and to have the house be completely impeccable. And that's not what she's aiming for anymore. But it is like, that's just actually a lesson that your kid is teaching you, which is like, yes, things are not perfect. But also like, tidyness is important and we meet in the middle. But like, what's important is how we feel and how we make each other feel. Yeah. Yeah. I can tell from how you both are speaking about your children, how much you love them, and really, like not even cherish them, but like you really like them as people and as the people they are becoming. And my question is a little bit, I don't know if it's crass or like, but it's just like, I think that's an assumption that you can't make. Well, I want to hear from you guys what you think is crass. Well, I don't know if it's rude, but like, does everyone feel that way about their children? Or are there people who secretly don't actually really like the children, their children, and say that they do because they've made this irreversible decision? And they can't take it back. Like, as someone who doesn't have a kid, I'm like, what if I have a kid? And I'm raising them, and I don't like them, maybe that's a reflection of me. Well, I think that this is inner child work. This is inner child work, which is I think everyone, if they have access to therapy, should be in some sort of therapy practice. But like, I think that your kids are an extension of you. And I think to the extent that you love yourself and love yourself for your shortcomings too, you will be able to reflect that love onto your kids. And if you are having trouble with an aspect of your kid, it's actually something that you feel about yourself. Your kids are a reflection of all the habits and things that you're trying to teach them. And of course, there are also characters on love in the spectrum, and they're not, you know, all right, I thought that'd be a huge lefty, but I'll be right back. All right, there we go, we got it. You know, it's like, there are, and I think if love on the spectrum was here, they'd say, yeah, we have some trouble being cool on a date. There's, there's like the learning curve for them is like not, they're not always gonna like take the note and understand it. I mean, your patience for them is a reflection of your patience with yourself. There's definitely people who don't like their kids though, Sabrina, or who like. Yes, they don't like themselves, I'm saying. But they also, or they're just so busy that they're like outsourcing it all. And the result, and I would not love myself if I was outsourcing every aspect of parenting my child, there's something that I'm afraid of there, in terms of how, can I trust myself to do this stuff? Allie Wong gave me good advice. She was like, just try to be there, 'cause you know, once they're in school, they're gone for eight hours. They're gone from, like, the first five years are hard, but then they're gone from eight to three. You know, that's a pretty good chunk, you guys do your podcasts. So, have your empire. But Allie was like, try to be home by like four. And I was like, "Oh, that really is good, 'cause then you can like be, you're with them in the morning." And then, starting at four, it's like, "Oh, it's like you can hang out with them a little bit." And bedtime routine starts at six, seven. You know, it's like, then you can go out at night. Okay, so one thing we don't talk about enough is how much research goes into every episode of Tiger Sisters. And every episode is chock full of research, facts, and stats. And that's why one skin really stands out to us as a skincare company, 'cause it's not just fancy packaging, it's actually real science with real stats, real data, and also women with PhDs. Yeah, and these longevity researchers have actually created OS1, which is one skin's proprietary peptide, which slow skin aging directly at the source. I love how it fits in my everyday routine and my skin feels amazing. And this isn't just my own experience. One skin's products are backed by lab and clinical data, including four peer-reviewed clinical studies. To validate their efficacy and safety on all skin types. Yeah, I also love that they have over 10,000 five star reviews. Born from a decade of longevity research, one skin's OS1 peptide is proven to target the visible signs of aging, helping you unlock your healthier skin now and as you age. For a limited time, try one skin for 15% off with code Tiger Sisters. That's oneskin.co/TigerSisters. That's 15% off with oneskin.co/TigerSisters. After you purchase, they'll ask you where you heard about them. Please support our show and say that the Tiger Sisters sent you. And now back to the show. You guys make it sound easy. I think that when you're ready to have a kid, it can be, obviously, it's like any big overwhelming undertaking in your life. Like, probably like starting this podcast. That was kind of like, that was birthing something, right? Maybe, and in the beginning, it's like what? what the fuck are we doing? And then you figure out sort of like a stride with it. And I think the more in stride you take things, we talk about this a lot on our podcast and the reason why we created our podcast, I think was partially because we wanted, we wanted a place to have conversations about the imperfections of it all. - Because our algorithms were like telling us we're doing it wrong. In the same way they're scaring you, they know you're demographic, there's I don't know why they're scaring you, but telling you're gonna get pregnancy nose or whatever it is. - Yes. - Arz are telling us like oh, you need to pack this lunch and you need to like, don't say this to your kid. If you say that to your kid, you could fuck them up. And it's like you start to just feel like completely out of control. - Yeah, like, you know exactly that. Like there's all these guardrails that we've got to stay within. And ultimately it's like everything in life, the guardrails are like everything that you've learned in your life. And if one thing doesn't go perfectly, then great, that's also a lesson, you know? That's the biggest lesson actually, I think, isn't it? Like for you, and we're gonna have you guys on our podcast, and I wanna talk about sort of like, you both graduated from incredible schools with a graduating class. And when you look at the people that made it or didn't make it, is it not people that get up after they fall down that are the ones that are furthest along in the race? - Yeah. - Natural talent or, you know, people that have to work at it harder. Either way, it's about like, are you getting up after you fall down? - I think it's very interesting, the way that you guys answer our questions. It's very revealing of your personalities and you're like philosophies. - And parenting philosophies. - And bodies, if you're watching, we're taking our clothes off. (laughing) - And if you're not watching, turn off your, turn on your video now. (laughing) Well, we're professionals. - We're pros, man. We're pros at knowing absolutely nothing and everything. And how do you guys feel about Tiger Woods, by the way? Do you feel it's damaging your brands? (laughing) - Yeah. Unrelated, it's unrelated, completely unrelated. - Unrelated to the brand, but God. - Yeah. - Tiger sisters. - Just go a year without a DUI. - And can you call an Uber or a lift? Those options exist. - Yes. - You can imagine Tiger Woods in a rideshare. I mean, he doesn't mean. - A black SUV, whatever suits him. You know what I mean? Like, whatever he needs. - You see Tiger Woods in an Uber pool? (laughing) - Sure, he was saying that would be like, the perfect brand partnership ring. You know, like a label. - That's the thing once you're in that high up, you fail upwards. Every DUI is a sponsorship ring. (laughing) - God, yeah. Right? I'm gonna reflect on that. (laughing) - Wanted to talk a little bit more about the cost of parenting. That's something that I hear a lot of people talk about. Like, one of my best friends is Do Soon. And she was just lamenting to me about the fact of like, oh my God, having a nanny for this many days, a night nurse, all these start to add up. And then apparently there's a Duna. Duna. - Dua? - No, Duna. Like it's a Duna, the stroller. - Yes, the brand for the stroller, that's like thousands of dollars. - It's a really good stroller. - Thousands of dollars. - Yeah, but I bought one second hand for 400 bucks. - Okay, right. See, I feel like tips like that. Or like, it's the same thing as when you get married. It's like, they're like, do you want the white chairs? Do you want the brown chairs? Or do you want the bamboo chairs? - That's what we want. - Well, the bamboo chairs are $4 a piece. The plain white chairs are only $1 a piece. People are gonna be sitting in them. Like every step of my wedding, I just picked the cheapest thing. 'Cause I was like, whatever, it's like, it doesn't really matter. It's like, I'm not saying you should always pick the cheapest thing with your kid, but I'm just saying like, you don't need a night nurse. Every single person in Hollywood told me I needed a night nurse. - No, you don't need a night nurse. - People who don't know, a night nurse is. - A Gremlin, sleep center closet. - No, it's this, it's this stranger you invite into your home to stare at your baby all night while you're sleeping. And like, everyone made me think I needed this. And then the crazy thing is if you're breastfeeding, you need to get up anyway. So it's like, I was meeting this woman in the hall who was just staring down at my baby and then she told my husband to not come in the room. I mean, it was just like, and then we ended up paying her like $2,000 for a month and then just had her never come again. Because she had like a range or schedule. But I just think people make you think you need all of this stuff that you don't really need. - But I'll tell you what you do need. Instead of a night nurse, the snoo. S and O-O, it is. - That was amazing. - It feels like counter-intuitive, but actually-- - It rocks your baby for you with a motor. - It treats, it helps your baby. It simulates the sounds of the womb and it rocks, it simulates the motion of the womb as well. And it helps your baby train themselves to go back to sleep in the middle of the night. And that's, and by the way, here's the thrifty thing to do with the snoo. You buy a snoo, second hand. Make sure that it's like not the third or fourth or fifth time someone's selling it. And you also make sure that it's not a rented snoo. I heard there's like people that are renting snoo's and then selling them and then you get scanned. But-- - The snoo scan. - The snoo scan. But you buy one second hand and you sell it second hand. So you're basically potentially, you know, I bought mine for-- - You're making money. - You're making money. - By the way, you guys don't know this yet, Sabrina is like a master-- - Manipulator. - No, she can add everything up in her head all the time. Like she knows budgets. I mean, you guys are like-- - You're overselling it, but throw three numbers at me. - No, but she's very good at 111. - Okay, that's three. And that's three. Yeah, throw three single digit numbers at me. - But I do think that, yeah, people can go overboard but why isn't there a better underground network for all of this crappy need for the kid? It's like, 'cause we all outgrow it and then you have to like try to find someone who needs all your stuff, it's-- - There are sites, there are websites, but you know what I really like. I like just like the underground real way. I don't know if that's the right comparison. But like this sort of just like, I like just like, look, if you're middle class to upper class, just give your shit away when you're done. - Yeah. - Do that, you know, so many people-- - I'll think you're finding that. - Give me such nice things and I treasure those things. And now I'm gonna give those things to other people. It's like such a nice way to like come into this period of your life where yeah, you were gonna be spending more money. So like, it's just a nice vibe to be like giving things secondhand. - Yeah, one of my friends says she gets all of her baby stuff from by nothing groups. - Yeah, so she's like-- - 'Cause we bring one out of their house. - We have stuff in our garage right now that like the next pregnant person that we meet, that's not awful. - And I'm sorry if you're a pregnant person in my life and you haven't been offered it yet. Yeah, you wanted to go to a nice cutie. - Yeah. - Yeah. - That's true. - Okay. - Yeah, I feel like you're both gonna have kids. - I know that. - So are you kidding? You haven't decided who's gonna be a better mother yet? - Not yet, no, we're revealing it in our episode of our podcast. I decided it's, that's better marketing. - You should try to have somewhat at the same time. You guys should get pregnant together. - You're seven years apart Natasha. - So, we're 10 years apart. And we had our kids at the same time. - Excuse me. (laughing) - Yeah, I think we've actually never talked about it before. - It could be fun to have kids at the same time. - Yeah. - But don't make a podcast about it 'cause that's our territory. (laughing) - We have so many questions I don't think so. We would not be equipped. - Hey TigerFam, watch this episode on Spotify. If you're subscribed to Spotify Premium, you won't get any Spotify ads on this video. - No, I mean, I definitely wanna have kids. I've always wanted to have kids. And I also, similar to Sri, like ideally, I would love to have three kids. - Hey, that was my answer. - You guys, don't copy me. - We have three kids. - Okay, you really want one. Why have three? - Three. - It was like the Newerman Mormon vibes for LA. - No more, if you go even middle of the country where things are cheaper, have five. But if you live in the city and you have three, good luck doing it, it's almost like, okay, this is gonna be another bad comparison. But if in Afghanistan, America went in, taught all the girls, "Oh, you can read, you can play sports." And then everything changed and now they can't. Having three kids, I'm very nervous about how I'm gonna connect this. - We can cut it out. - No, but I'm saying, but I think that having three kids in LA while you're watching all these women live their lives and make eye contact is like being backwards in Afghanistan while the women are reading. And by the way, I am Pakistani, so I can make that analogy, that pinky analogy. - I remember being in Paris with my three. - All right, Rich. - And while I was trying to go on a vacation, - Don't worry, I was there with my one-year-old. - And I got my period and I went to the front desk and I don't speak French and they didn't have any tampons. I had to go try to figure out which way she told me to walk down the street. I'm with my daughter. I have stuff spilled all over my black jeans. And then I'm realizing I've got a pair of underwear, like an old underwear, stuck in between my tight jeans. I'm like, "What is this bulky thing?" - Nothing makes me more and feel more together in your life. - Walking down the streets of Paris, and it's just like, it's because I couldn't keep it all together. - That's gonna happen, you're gonna be humiliated. - One is a pair of pants, two is a tube tap, three is the piece of underwear stuck inside your pants. (laughing) - But I'm just saying that stuff. - It's a universal experience. - It'll happen, you know? But, I don't know it. - I think three is too much. It's like too many pregnancies and too many kids that want your attention and just have too much attention. and then take it from there, but like I bet you'll agree. - Yeah. - And then there's always, there's a middle child. And what, do you guys have three of us? - It's just a two of us. - Which is my third that was not on this podcast. - I know someone who just had a fourth child 'cause they didn't wanna have a middle child. - Oh. - Yeah. - 'Cause it's like. - Never ending. - I have a middle child in my family and-- - Is it not good? He's homeless in Florida. - Oh. - Sorry, I didn't mean to find out. - No, I think that we should do a moment of silence for that because nothing made the point after my brilliant Afghanistan analogy, nothing could make the point clearer. - Well, y'all will do what you want. - Yeah. - I mean, I'm post-37, so three is, I don't know if that's in the cards for me, but-- - Let me ask you this, are you seeing someone now? - No, I'm single. - Okay, if you were in your early 40s, if you were in your early 40s, not seeing someone, would you push the trigger and do it, bad-ass? - No, I don't think so. Because I want the whole experience, I want to raise a baby and have a family with a partner. - Me too, and that's why I thought I was a situational breeder because it's like, and I have friends who did it all on their own. You know, they hired a surrogate, they got eggs 'cause their eggs weren't bad, they got sperm. They, you know, they had someone else do, you know-- - We were talking about Ricky Lindholm. She has a whole show about it. - Oh, okay, I wasn't gonna say her name. - No, well, she didn't episode of our podcast, so she has a whole show about it that's touring in London right now. And after she had the kid, she fell in love with Fred Armason. - But she was okay to do it on her own. And I knew that was not something because my mom was a single mom. I was not up for that. And that was never something I was prepped to do. - But I want to be the voice in this podcast that says, if you're listening and you're out there and you're in your early 40s, you've got some frozen eggs or you're like, maybe this is my last chance to freeze some embryos or eggs, I would say, that is a way to do it. And I do think one part of the story of Ricky that is really gratifying and cool to talk about is she was fulfilling her destiny, not waiting for a man to check that box and in doing so, found the right man. - But she really, her whole life wanted a kid. - Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I think a lot of people say, like, okay, I wanted a kid. I'm in my mid 40s, so it's not gonna happen. Well, there's other options and maybe don't let that dream die just because of the fertility bump and maybe don't let that dream die just because of the partnership bump is what I'm saying. - I had mine at 43. And that's, I feel like I'm kind of the age of a lot of her parents. - For my parents. - Yeah, so I do think that there's a little, I mean, obviously we're in the coastal situation and maybe it's different, but I do think it's, you're definitely not like elderly. - Well, did you guys see that a new stat came out where in the United States, for the first time, I think ever, more people are giving birth in their 40s than in their teens. That's good. - Wow. - Have we grushed in their 40s than in their teens? That's great. - Well, unfortunately, kids are having their period at 12. - Yeah, that's a little bit of an issue. - Separate. - Yeah. - Wait, is that different than before? - I think it's like happening sooner, from like, I was 12, I think. When did you get your period? - 12. - Yeah. - Oh, I'm 16. - Yeah, that was old. - I think you might just be the anomaly. I don't think people are changing. I think you were just-- - No, I heard that, though, that it is happening because of endocrine disruptors. - That's not like a scientific-- - I don't know that for sure, but that is like the theory because there's a lot more endocrine disruptors in our generation. - What's an example of an endocrine disruptor? - Like, just like-- - Just like. - Wait, am I not supposed to use Lysol? - No, like, I don't like Lysol specifically. - We're not allowed to use anything. - Like the anti-stick pan. Like the stuff that's on it. - Yes. - That's an endocrine disruptor that didn't exist, you know, in the 50s or in the previous generation. - I know, someone took their home to my house. - Chemicals. - And she's telling me, "I just had a whole argument with her yesterday about she's, I brought home farmed shrimp from Costco. She goes, "I don't want you buying this stuff." - Wait, why? - I told her, I'm like, "What are you talking about?" She's like, "My doctor said we should only eat wild fish." And I'm like, "Tell your doctor to buy the wild fish. It's so expensive." - Why? So farmed is like a joke, right? - Farmed, no, but it's not, but I looked it up and chat GPT said it was fine. - Chat GPT is wrong all the time, Sabrina. - This episode brought to-- (laughing) - Disco, it's a farmed shrimp. Where does she want you to buy your shrimp from? - She wants me to go find it in a river. (laughing) - She wants you to go shrimp it. - No, but then I was like, "Watch what I said." I was like, "You think you're so good for the environment." Why don't you look at the effects of buying all these Amazon things and returning them? (gasping) - Got 'em. - Got 'em. - Got 'em. - Look, I can tell this is not a very exciting part of your podcast that I've brought us to. So you guys gotta take your hands. - We have more questions, we have more questions. - Okay. - Quick pause, TigerFam. Please take five seconds to subscribe to TigerSisters podcast wherever you're listening or watching this. And in those five seconds, you're about to subscribe. Jean and I are gonna sing. - Subscribe. - Subscribe. - Love. - Wherever you get your pie. - Two different keys. (laughing) - Okay, so this is one of our final wrap up questions. And it brings together like parenting, relationships, love and romance. - It's doing a lot of heavy lifting. - You got it. (laughing) - You guys are gonna get this right, yeah. - Yeah. - So we've been told that who you choose as a partner is one of the biggest decisions you can make in your life. How can you tell that someone is going to be a good parent and how does this inform how we date people? - The question. - Really good question. - Well, I have an interesting answer because well, first of all, I think it's, I'm sure you guys have done this, this is basic. But like making a list of your negotiables and your non-negotiables. And after a break up, I'll always, you know, I was always like, okay, well, you know, I wanted them to be British. I wanted them to play guitar, but those weren't like non-negotiables. But then your non-negotiable list starts to become bigger and bigger, like things that you absolutely can't do without. And like one of the things was able to let me shine. Things like that, like where you're like, oh, wait, that's why this relationship didn't work. Like they would get jealous or they didn't want me going out or they couldn't understand my career or my drive. And you know, that's a huge thing. And then another thing was, (laughing) this is kind of, I'm trying to think of how to phrase this. Like, you know, just knowing. - That huge dick. (laughing) - Knowing that's on your list, right? - Yeah, well, you got to see my wife. (laughing) - Knowing that someone isn't going to cheat on me. Like that can take up so much of your energy. Like if you kind of in the back of your head know, they always have like a roving eye. Like that kind of stuff just starts to eat me alive. And I'm like, you know what? I need to pick someone where like, I'm the, I'm feeling like I'm the star. Not to put anything, you know, negative about my husband. Like he gets, he got plenty of action. But it's like, there was just a dynamic in place. Like it's almost like an unspoken thing. It's like a dynamic and like, we have horrifying problems. Like, he's such a mess. Like, horrifying. I mean, it's like, I'm consumed by a lot of our issues. But when I look at what they are, they're not, you know, yes, his socks and shoes are everywhere. But like, and you know, he goes to Burning Man. But he's not like, I can't reach him. I'm not sure where he went. Like because I've had that before and I just hated that dynamic so much and my mom had that dynamic. And I just think like, what is the dynamic, you know? And also he really wanted to have kids. And so that's kind of how I knew he'd be a good parent. - I guess it's all stuff that also just dev tails with good partnership. It's like you're all as parents, you're kind of like, there is no guarantee. You don't know what it's going to look like any given day. But if you are able to compromise through relationship hurdles, then you'll be able to make it through raising a kid. Like, the way that you pick your partner as just like the person you're going to spend your life with and the person that you want to grow old with, I think that choice, it comes down to like the fundamental things that also make someone a good copilot for parenting. Like for me, kindness. Like ultimately, you know, obviously I'm, I'm only looking for a beautiful woman to say how I, the first draft in my mind, I always looked for the beauties. Like, you know, you want someone that's hot and then ultimately what makes it sustainable is like an element of like kindness and empathy so that when things come up, they actually are looking to solve the problem as a couple and not just fight for their way. And then one thing that, one of like Ashana and I, so I met her in San Francisco and I was living in Brooklyn. And the first time that I went there after I like had happened to meet her in San Francisco and we kissed and then we like went our separate ways, I booked a trip to go back two weeks later being like, I'll be back in town. But I was just back in town to be with her and put all of her furniture on Craig's list to be like, you're moving to Brooklyn, which I really did, like a psycho. - But you guys did that lesbian thing where you move in like after-- - Right away. I mean, she was like, I'm not even a lesbian bro and I was like, don't worry, me neither. Me neither, we're all fluid here. She was like, I'm a butterfly, I'm here and there. I'm like, oh my gosh, that's what everyone calls me too. - You're like, you're a butterfly, I'm a mom. - I'm an anchor. I'm a cage. - I'm a cage. - You're kidding, I'm so the cage. - You are a cage, you keep it classic. - So then, And so then I came to the butterfly, but she took me on this really cute trip. I remember I got on like, what's that website where you don't know Hotwire? We booked in, it was called like Shamanad, and it was like in Santa Cruz or something, but we go in this trip and she keeps filling the trunk, which is like a foreshadowing of every trip. We can't go anywhere without so many suitcases. - Well, she's a stylist. - Stylish, she needs to have all of it with her. But we get to this place and she's unloading the car and she has this huge giant like Tupperware. Like a huge like, you know, doubles, and she opens it up and it's full of art supplies. And we like made canvases together, but I immediately was like, oh my God, you are the mother of my children. We're doing arts and crafts. - Yeah. - Yeah. - I just wanted someone who wouldn't cheat on me. I'm just kidding, but. - Well, that's important to you, Royalty. That's straight versus gay. Gays look for Tupperware. - No, but Shauna's very talented. - Yeah. - And she's such an intrinsically maternal cutie. - Like if you were at their house, she would have like a whole like cheese board that she figured out how to make and then she would have sprinkled some flowers on it and just like. - She's also always just thinking about like, I know on our podcast there's a constant debate where Natasha's talking about not having tablets at dinner and I'm talking about how many screens can we put in front of these kids so we can have a cocktail? And that's like the cartoon character of me, I think on the podcast. But what's real is that like Shauna's always like yesterday, we had a bunch of kids over and she put out this like art table, you know? I think just, I think people that are not sociopaths make good parents. People that are thinking about like the adventures and the experience of someone else will be inclined to do the same for a kid. - Yeah, I mean, I think the way I think of it, you just said the word adventure is I'm like, okay, being a parent is going to be the next big adventure. Right, like you need to, or at least for me, I'm like, I need to pick the right partner for that adventure specifically. - Yeah, and along the way, and along the way, like this is why I'm a proponent of the dream is not attached to the partnership because I think sometimes what we can do is put pressure on those partnerships to be that right away, where Shauna and I had a long whole arc together before we had kids. And so don't forget that like, yeah, red flags are red flags are red flag, but also like you can get there together. - I also completely tricked my husband. Because like he, he was like, well, can we still have an open relationship if we get married? And I was like, yeah, why don't we get married and then talk about the threesome. And then he was like, oh, go. And then recently he was like, you were just saying that, right? Like now he's into deep. But like I think-- - And you're like saying what? Get back in your cage, and there I am. And there's the threesome. - It's okay to say things, you know, because sometimes guys, like they just are like, there's, well guys especially, they're, you wanted to like move in the second you matter, but like guys, they're like very addicted to their autonomy. - KG. - Yeah, so it's like, sometimes you have to kind of like, you know, just let 'em know, yeah, it's gonna be okay. - Sure, why not? Let's, let's table that. - Trapped. - Yes. - You can snap, snatch 'em. - Yeah, we both expressed too. - Very different. - Two different ways of lying in a relationship. (laughs) My way is like, yeah, I guess both of them come down to us being like, it's okay when really you're like, I'll change that. (laughs) - Exactly, yeah. - Growing together. - Growing together. Brought to you by Tiger Woods. Tiger, come home. Your family's worried about you. - Take an Uber. - Take an Uber, Tiger. - That's crazy because when I did Chelsea lately, like 15 years ago, him being, like him drunk driving was one of the main topics that was always happening. - Oh my God, yeah, patterns be patterns. You know what, I take it back. If there's red flags you run. (laughs) Yeah, the red flags won't change. No, take, I take it back. Well, what I mean is just like, I think that this predicament that women in their late 30s, early 40s are in that men don't suffer from is like, you're like, I gotta find the musical chair so that I can sit down and win the game. And that's what I try to talk about all the time is like fertility preservation can equal a relaxing of that. So you don't end up in some garbage relationship just because you're like, I wanted the bag and the bag is the kid. - Yeah. - And if you did end up in one of those, once you got the bag, guess what, that bag moves. - Get out, you don't gotta stay in the store with the bag. - Yeah, I truly do feel that way. Like now that I've had my eggs frozen for a while now, I don't feel like pressure to find the right person right now. I just am like, and the worthy person, not saying. Yes, yeah, it will happen. Those are some good eggs. - Which is a good conversation, a good feeling to express. - Good ass eggs. - Good ass eggs. Once you freeze those good ass eggs, it's like, I think a lot of people approach egg freezing as this like concession or like admitting that you didn't reach this point at the right time. And it's like, look around, you know, Natasha, you're saying at, you know, when you go to pick up that women are in their late 40s, early 50s for these kids that are in elementary school, it's like, that is the new timeline. - Yeah, I love that. - Imagine picking up your kid and it's just a bunch of teenagers. (laughing) - They certainly have more energy, that's true. - They've got the right games on their phone. (laughing) - You're sharing them with the kids. - Same games, actually. - Hey, it's my turn for Roblox. (laughing) - Thank you guys so much for joining us on this episode of Tiger Sisters. And for our listeners or our viewers who want to learn more about you guys or where to find you, what are your socials and your handles? - We're impossible to find. But if you scour the internet at good enough p-casts on Instagram, you can find us. We have new episodes every Wednesday. We've had incredible guests. We're gonna have you on soon. We've had Chelsea Peretti. - Take Nataro. - Nick Roll. - Amazing guests. - Yeah, man, my wife. - We've had, we've. - Parenting experts and parents who fail. And also we've started having people like you who don't have kids because we want to know what kind of parenting went into making stars like yourself. - I would be so proud of either of my daughters. You guys seem really together. - Thank you. - It's actually just that. - My daughter was like, I know, but they got their, they got their shoes. - We got our no cards. - I saw one of them plow into a pedestrian on the land. (laughing) They'll do anything to get you to that. - We made you not to say that on camera. - You know what I'm saying? - We'll see you in the check-it. Yeah, so every Wednesday we have new episodes. Natasha's got another podcast called. - I have a podcast called The Endless Honeymoon Podcast with my husband and you can find it all in my Instagram @NatashaLisShero. - And at Sabrina Jalice is where I am cutely. And I have a new TV show coming out, May 22 on Netflix called "Mating Season." I play a horny, pear-shaped fox. - Cool. - Check it out, coming soon. - From the makers of Big Math. - Yeah. - Yeah, thank you. - Bye guys, you guys. - Bye. (upbeat music)