The Rafters.

(upbeat music) Welcome back to Roots and Rafters. I'm Rachel and today I'm joined by my co-host Luke. You'll be hearing a lot more from him as we dive into the stories, the lessons and the history that shaped this project. And he has one of the hardest jobs of anyone trying to reign in one or more handling, which is no small feat. And in this episode, we're talking about something that touches every one of us. It's called the Heroes Journey. It's the timeless arc of struggle, transformation and return. Luke and I will share how this journey has shown up in our lives, how it threads through the story of my great, great, grandmother Ida and why it matters for you as a listener. This isn't just a conversation about myth or storytelling. It's about how we can recognize our own turning points, the dark valleys and the breakthroughs and use them as fuel to build something bigger than ourselves. Whether you're standing at the beginning of your own journey and you haven't yet gotten the call in the messy middle or trying to make sense of what you've learned so far, we hope this episode gives you a mirror and a map. So let's jump in. - Fantastic. - Yeah. - That was great. - So I strong armed you into watching "Finding Joe" last night. Thank you for that, by the way. - Yeah, I wouldn't say it was much of a strong arm. I thought it was a great movie. I mean, at the end. - It does have kind of a lame title, so it's hard to get excited about watching it. - Thank you. I feel like "Finding Joe," what was the reminding it? You know, "Mighty Joe Young," the old movie about like the big gorilla. That's what I kept thinking about. So it's just an old movie about basically a friendly King Kong. (laughs) - You were gonna be watching a gorilla movie? - No, well, it was just, I kept thinking about that the whole time because it's just word association or whatever, but it's an awesome movie. You are right. The title doesn't really hook you. - You're right. - So if you didn't know what it was already or searching out, yeah. Right, you wouldn't see it based on the title and think, yeah, I definitely wanna watch this movie. Like I said, not much of a strong arm. I thought it was an awesome movie. We've talked it up so much, and it lived up to the high 100%. It definitely gets your brain moving and gets the machine moving and gets you thinking about what where you are in your life and where you wanna be and what you need to be doing instead of what you are doing. - Yeah. - So I thoroughly enjoyed the movie. I thought it was great. We even watched it late and I was just totally awake locked into it at the whole time. - Elise and mostly Mike were a little out, but we were captivated, which was good. It's perfect for today. - And you can, can I see this? - Yeah. - Because I wanted to see the three main attributes of the heroes journey. - Yeah, those are the ones I starred. - Okay, separation, initiation, and return. Okay. - Yeah. - I guess so, and someone who just saw the movie and understands the premise of the heroes journey and the history of it, I'm gonna ask you yourself, what do you think starting from the beginning, what do you think about the heroes journey as a pathway for all of humanity? As, you know, this is probably a huge question to start it off with, but as an entirety of a civilization, but also as an individual, what does the heroes journey mean for a human being? - Well, so the movie is, so Joe is Joseph Campbell and he was a philosopher who studied mythology, including like, made my marriage. I think he started getting really obsessed with the American history or stories. And then he started expanding and kind of followed his bliss, which we'll get into later. But he basically started finding commonalities and then he kept going further and further and started looking into religious stories and then started looking at just human stories and then like, you know, those epic movies where you're just like cheering for the hero and, you know, all those things. And basically, he found a common thread through all of it. It's like the same story, like is what he kind of figured out. And so then this movie goes into, you know, what that map looks like. And so, and the interesting thing is it, I was having a low night and I just found out the house was rented, which I keep coming back to like, this is just a challenge. This is just another thing I have to work through. It's set back, but like, it's going to make the story even more incredible as we keep going on. And at some point, we're going to look back and see the reason why, you know. And I'm, but just, I'm committed to continuing to go back to that belief and that point, but it doesn't mean that I don't have really tough moments. And so I was having a tough moment. It was like a long weekend and, you know, whenever you go from a long weekend into the work week, it's always like, there's a little, like, - A little kick in them. - Yeah. - Talk us about it. - Yeah. And so it was like getting ready, getting, you know, my head ready for the week and then having that, you know, set back and I was just like, you know what, I don't, it's okay that I feel these things. I need to give myself the space to view these things, but I can't stay there. So I asked Chat GPT to like give me some recommendations for movies that would inspire me for this project 'cause Chat GPT knows all about this project. And this was one of the movies that showed up and I was like, okay, and like I started watching it and I was like, oh, I gotta go get a notebook. And I started like, and I've never really done that unless it was like for school that I was supposed to, you know? But I was like, I need to write this stuff down. This is so good, like so many nuggets. And I was just like, it's probably like, you know, way past my bedtime and I was just like, wait, let me rewind it and it was just like so many good things. And it just like, it's about this project. It's about what I didn't went through. It's what I'm going through. It's about what every listener is going through. It's what you're going through. Like it doesn't matter what it is. Like you can find yourself at some place in this journey, you know? And that's exciting. What about you, what did it, what was the like, what was the why of like, why this is impactful for you and how it relates to this project? - I think that being honest about it, the most interesting thing for me was that it's obviously filled with a lot of confidence boosting material. It's a lot of finding yourself and what are you meant to do and what is your story? What was interesting for me was at the end of it, not really knowing exactly what my thing is. And so it was kind of a wake up call for me to say, well, you know, I'm an arborist and I've done certain things in my life that I have excited me. What does all of the endeavors that I've gone through and done, what do they have in common and maybe somewhere within there, I can see what it is. I'm actually meant to do like what my heart yearns for because it was interesting to watch the movie and kind of go through it and totally relate to it, but not be able to have one set thing that is like, oh yeah, I need to quit my job and do this. I feel like I'm getting closer to it, but that was, that's my biggest takeaway was, and I think they alluded to it a lot in the movie where they want the movie to be this sort of. - Like a catalyst. - Yeah, like a lighthouse showing you the island of where your idea is, right, exactly. Like, like, hey, if you're lost, if you don't know exactly what you want to do, and it was very fitting for me personally because of sort of a weird spot I am in my career, now kind of wondering whether what I want to do moving forward, you can spend your life in one avenue and find a lot of really great things from one portion, from an industry, for me it's trees, to tree work, and spend years really honing in on that and doing as much as you can. And then it's like a light being switched over one day you wake up and you're like, this actually isn't really what I want to do and I've got a lot of fulfillment out of it, but it's like the tank is empty and you've kind of ranned it all up. And so you're thinking, well, do I train my brain to just be happy, or do I totally just okay? That life is over and now this is an opportunity that a lot of people push so far down that they don't feel it, but now I have this opportunity to seek out what I meant to do. - Well, and what I find really interesting too is like, I think it's really easy to gravitate towards career oriented. Like kind of when you're watching it, it's kind of you start thinking about your career and like what you're, you know, we spend a good chunk of our life, you know, in whatever career pursuits that we have. So it's like that's where your brain kind of gravitates towards, but I also think that like, you know, they show their heroes journey as a circle, which I also find really interesting because as I was thinking about this project and as I've mold over it for years, like I just kept seeing like a circle, you know, and like, 'cause I'm going back in time to like understand my family. I'm, you know, being present in where I'm at and like by journey and I'm looking at the future to like help other people that are going through similar things. And also like I feel like there's a part of this that's going to bring healing to myself, my family, especially given a lot of the things that we've been going through recently. And so it just, in my mind, it just keeps like coming back to the circle. So then that was another thing when I was watching it. I was like, oh, like cow, like it's a circle. Like and it's following this whole path. It's like the same thing. - Right. - But what one of the takeaways that I got was like, 'cause I of course thought about it the same way. But one of the things I liked was that like, that's not really just the trajectory of your life. It's like we go through, it's like every time we have like, we're called to something more like it could be a career. It could be, I've been struggling with this for a long time. I've not loved myself in this way. I have some sort of coping mechanism that I've like, that's been getting in my way of being the full potential of what I can be. And I got to work through that. And so it's like that circle can also continue throughout your life, you know, which I think is incredible, you know? And kind of to help the audience a little bit catch up if you haven't seen the movie, which if you haven't, we highly recommend it, I would say. Wouldn't, like, definitely anyone. - I think that, yeah. I think if you're interested in this story and the project, if you are interested in just reaching your full potential or just, you know, having better insight of yourself and understanding as a human being, yeah. Definitely something you want to watch, finding Joe. - Yeah. - He's a great movie and it's really interesting to see some of the, some of the people that they have on there that they're interviewing that you, and I just off the top of my head was one of the founders of Fleetwood Mac, you know, and how he attributes, is he's a drummer, I don't know his name, I should, but I don't know his name. The drummer of Fleetwood Mac, I think his last name is literally Fleetwood, so. - Yeah, but he's your Mr. Fleetwood. - He knows some of that. - But he's interviewed in this movie and he talks about how drumming wasn't just something that he enjoyed doing or he liked doing and he found passion in it. It was as important to him as oxygen and that's kind of the whole point is everyone has that thing. And it's so easy to just forget that you have that thing. When you're born with it, you are born with it. When you're a kid, you would know what it is, but you don't have the ability to express what it is and then you grow up and with more ability you have to express yourself, the harder it is to remember what you were born with. Well, because we have all the learned, you know, go through traumatic experiences, we learn the behaviors of the people who've gone for us. You know, school is always traumatic for most people, you know? And so you get these layers of like stuff that gets in the way of knowing yourself and knowing what you're meant for and who you're meant to be. And so then it's like, they talk about it as like this, like crack in your life, you know, like this moment where it's just like things start to unravel a little bit and it's like every time that happens, every time you go through something difficult, you have a choice to like, I mean, I don't think that you can ever really be the same after you go through something traumatic or something like upending. But I think you can try to stay the same, which if you, I think if you're trying to stay the same after going through something like that, like you're actually kind of throwing more layers on and like making it, like you're gonna be worse off almost, you know? - Right. - And then, or you can like answer the call and like rise above and like become, like kind of level up, I guess, or you know, you can like get sucked into it and like, you know, sink down further or distract yourself from it. But like you can't just stay the same. You won't, you'll never be the same. - Right. And the way, and you can speak to this, the way that it's depicted in the movie. And so we'll just go through all of it to start from the beginning. The hero's journey is in three parts, the separation, initiation, and the return. And so what you're talking about now is the separation. - Yeah. - The way that it's depicted in the movie is a, it's a story about a, this big golden Buddha statue and when the monks in the monastery knew that there was an army approaching, they covered the statue with concrete and mud and its leaves and sticks to cover it so that the army didn't know that it was made of gold and they wouldn't plunder it. And so hundreds of years had passed because the army kept invading and they never knew it was made of gold. And then, you know, generations later, monks forgot that it was actually a golden statue and until a one month went to go pray to the statue and as he was getting up, a piece of concrete fell off and realized that this is actually a golden statue and so they worked to take it all off to present this giant golden Buddha. And that's kind of the idea of your separation is that once you find it, it's impossible to fill those cracks. You will, it's your, you're just even, you know, you have the choice how quickly do you want to take that concrete and mud and all of the, you're what they call armor, how quickly do you want to take it off? How slowly do you want to let it fall off, but there's nothing you can do about it. - What do you want to speckle over it? In which if that's where you go, that almost like, it's almost like you know it's, you know something's written, not right, like, you know, if you choose to ignore the light within you, like the goodness, the, that potential that you have, like if you choose to ignore it, you know, you feel it. You can't, you know, like, yeah. - Once you see that the statue was made of gold. - Yeah. - It's very hard even if you want to so badly to cover it up and you do and you make all the effort to, you can't forget that it is and you're always gonna be working to fill it. So either you present this golden statue and it ends, you know, doing the best we can to explain this for people who aren't going to watch the movie. The golden statue represents your potential, who you are, who you're really supposed to be. The person you are that takes the effort to take away the armor and become who you were born, to be in what you were born to create and do and your role in the, your role on Earth in the short timeframe that you actually are here. - Yeah, and relating that to like the story, I think when we have seen the golden parts of ourselves and we know we start to realize that there's, that we're meant for something more, I think that's a different kind of pain. Like it's painful to like go through the process of like becoming yourself, right? Or coming the person you are meant to be that, you know, there's trials, it's not an easy process but there's a different kind of pain and different kind of not easy that you have to go through when you choose to ignore, you choose to move on and not answer the call. And I think that's when, like you almost have to numb that feeling in order to keep moving forward and that's one of the reasons why people turn to alcohol, drugs, you know, pouring themselves into their job, relationships, just anything to distract from that knowing that like you're meant for more and you're ignoring that call, you know? Or, and like, you know, the call that they talk about is often, you know, they talk about it in a movie that often it's a catastrophic thing. It's like a divorce, a death. Financial disaster, and like in those terrible moments, like of course it's going to be painful, of course it's going to like uproot you but then it's what you do next, you know, it's like do, what is this, why is this so painful? Was this telling me about myself, you know, and if we choose to ignore, then that's when that pain, that trauma starts to define us. And then that's when we have to numb out and distract from that, that pain of ignoring and just being caught up in that disaster, you know? - Right, I also think that it's there's, you know, myself being a Christian, I would say that I would point to parts of what Jesus said about, you can about giving yourself up and I'm not trying to make it a whole Jesus thing, I'm saying that there that is one book out of tons and tons of stories and that's the whole point that Joseph Campbell was making in the movie, or I guess that the movie was making about Joseph Campbell is that it's a human story to get to get to where you need to be, you have to give yourself up. - There's a death, there's a death of self. - Right, and you shed away what you once were to get to where you need to be and it's an incredibly painful process. It can be incredibly painful, but it's necessary if you want to live an extraordinary life and you can do your best to keep the armor on, but for some people, you know, I personally, I believe that some people, they really, really want to keep the armor on and they'll spend their whole lives doing as much as they can to piting the gold. Then there's other people who just want to get it off, who are willing to embrace it and it just sucks keeping it on. It's like being ordinary just kills you so you just have to be able to just shed it and do even if it's the scariest thing. Like for you currently, this podcast is a very terrifying thing, but it also, and you can speak to this probably feels like I just, I can't not do it, it's like possible. I can't even picture a world where this is not what I would be doing right now. - Yeah, yeah, absolutely. It's like of all the things like, you know, give me a workshop and some materials, like, I'm in my happy place and if I could somehow magically tell I just story through that, like, that would be awesome. But I know that like this story has to be told and that involves telling (laughs) and this is the medium, you know, that I'm drawn to and there's gonna be others, you know? But like it's, and it seems like this is often the case is that on the other side of finding your purpose, fulfilling your purpose, well, I guess before you get to the other side of fulfilling your purpose, you have to go through your trials and that those trials are usually going to bring you face-to-face with your dragons or like the things that trip you out, the things that you feel uncomfortable about. And like over the past few months, I've just decided, you know, I hate networking. I hate like putting myself out there, like, you know, in this form, there's like so many things that I'm just very uncomfortable with and I'm learning how to just press forward and like, like I have to, like I've gotten to the point where and it was through, you know, a really difficult time that like brought me face-to-face with the potential of losing this dream and that like feel, that like fear of losing it, like I was afraid to just step out, but then when it got to a place where I was like, oh, this might never happen, that like just stirred something inside of me that was like, even though this is the worst time and from an outsider's perspective, like this is the worst time for us to be doing this, you know, financially, time, just all these things are just not adding up, but those always tend to be, it's like a tale is all the same, right? Like they always tend to be the times when it's right for you and I think the fact that it doesn't add up, the math doesn't, the life math doesn't work out, that just shows how much more magical it is and how it's truly, I mean, the way things have lined up in the past few months, it's like, I can't ignore, I can't, like there was, you know, a few things here and there that were like, well, that's kind of crazy, but like in just a few months, the things that have happened and how this is all unfolded, like, I can't ignore that. That is, it's undeniable at this point, but it would never have come to be if I didn't answer the call, you know, and we're just in the beginning stages of this. And so, you know, we have a whole other circle to get through in this, you know, in this current present journey that we're going through and there will be more, but it's been really exciting to like see the synchronicities and the things that are just like telling, reminding me, but it didn't happen, I didn't get the proof until I started taking action and until I started saying, enough is enough, I'm tired of waiting. The story has to be told and there are people here who are listening right now. There's people that haven't heard this yet, you know, that are someday going to listen to this. There are people that need to hear this message, to hear this story, and I can't not do this, I can't wait another day. And as soon as we started taking action, like, it's been amazing. - Yeah, it's been like, it's all laid out and you're just shot with conformations of, you know, you're on that path. - But they come after. - They come after making that lead, making the separation. And so relating it back to the movie and the Joseph Campbell, the movie finding Joe, what you're in now, what we are in now is the initiative part. - Right, right. - We are being initiated into, or you are being initiated into-- - We are, we are, you're a part of this. - I'm the long for it. - You're part of this one. - I was rolled into it, but it's the same, it's like, what you said about your trials and you're in this initiative of, you've separated the armor from the gold, you see it, now it's this fire, it just burns to not go for it. You see what it is, you see that you're not there and so you have to do it. And so you're in this initiative. What, what do you think some of the trials are that you're feeling right now, some of the setbacks? It's easy to say, I'm here. I've made the decision to do this. There's, I'm getting this confirmation. This person has texted me, I've talked to this person. This is all aligned with what I've always wanted to do. What are some of the roadblocks that you've hit from deciding to do this podcast and to start this project? 'Cause ultimately what this podcast is is just a catalyst for us to tell the story of a greater project and the podcast is fun and it's exciting, the lights and the cameras and all that, but we just want to tell a story that is super, super important. It's also, it's also difficult to do that. It's not an easy thing to do. What are some setbacks that you've found so far? But, and then also, it's a two-part question. What are the roadblocks? What are the, what is the end goal for what this project is? That makes you see the roadblock, makes you see the barrier and then makes you be able to say, that's nothing. I can see my goal and I can see where I'm going and I will hurdle over this and jump over this and this roadblock is nothing to me because that's where I'm going. - So first, I would say there's a lot of roadblocks. I mean, financially we, Mike has taken a leap in a different direction and I'm bearing a lot of the financial responsibility and it's looking like it's going to be a great endeavor but it's putting some financial handcuffs on us on what we can do and I'm a project manager. I manage budgets, I manage schedules, I manage people, I manage concrete. I live you drawings. I'm very like, well, is it documented? It's I'm very like logical in that sense and that's how I operate, that's how I learned to function and how I learn to like judge, I assess risks and then I make a decision on how to proceed and doing this now means I am ignoring the fact that this is not the best time financially and I don't really know how it's all going to come together. Frankly, but I know that I've gotten to a place where I'm choosing to move forward even though it defies all of my logic and to be honest it's not like, screw it, I'm going to do it. I have moments where I go back to that place that I've operated in most of my life of like the logic. I fall back into it but I instead of feeling shame and guilt or like stopping, I just try to steer myself back and just remind myself why I'm doing this. So like, you know, financially having to move forward when it doesn't make sense, having to tell people, you know, especially like my dad, like my dad is my, you know, a big champion of mine, you know, he's, he roots for my success, you know, but like, he's a big source of that logic and like even just explaining what I want to do to my dad was like really, really hard, you know? And it was like a little embarrassing to be like, yeah, I want to get this house and I don't know how that's going to happen, you know? And talking to colleagues that I respect who I know are of a similar mindset. I feel like when I share this story it has to sound silly as to people but somehow every time I tell the story even though I'm like, they're going to think I'm crazy but it's okay, I'm just going to tell it anyways. Every time like people that I thought, you know, there are sometimes where there's some questions and people don't get it and that's okay. But a lot of times when I explain it to people that I thought would be like, that's weird, but okay. I just got support, you know, and I think part of that is because they see my experience of it and that comes through and like the passion, the like the energy behind it is what like helps you rise past the logic part of it, you know? So that yeah, it's like feeling silly and working through the logic, the finances, the time, I don't have time to do this but and I'm exhausted. But there's this like regeneration of energy that I'm getting from pushing myself and making this come together even though there's no time. And even just putting myself out there in social media like that's not comfortable for me. I mean, there's so many things that it's just like, you gotta press past that to get the thing and it's forcing me to face most of the reasons why those things are hard for me are things I need to work through to be the person that's ready for this assignment. You know, like it's insecure. I mean, most of that all comes down to insecurities, right? Like insecurity is a being judged of feeling silly of people not taking me seriously of failing. I mean, I'm terrified of failing and there's a chance that this could be a total failure but like I believe that it won't. And I'm moving forward, knowing those risks and you were saying that why is it, right? That was the second part was like why? What's the reason to push past those fears? - Yeah, what do you see? The clear roadblocks are, you know, your insecurities, it's what people are gonna think of you. Those are the things that you that happen to you in this process that make you think, what the hell am I doing? This is crazy. The question was, what do you see on the other side of that that makes you think, yeah, whatever, you know, I don't care what you think of me. I don't care what I think about myself. This is weird, but I have to do it. I think you answered it and I will let you answer it for real, but I think you're alluding to is that no matter how insecure you feel over it and no matter the risk or the possibility of a failing, you know it won't. Like it could fail, but in your brain it won't. It's just not a possibility. It definitely could, but it just in your head and the reality that you're making up, it just will not happen. This is going to impact people and it's going to impact the exact type of people that we are trying to show in this project as a whole. Obviously, I don't want to put words in my mouth. So you speak towards that. - And one thing too about the failure, I think, is I do believe that it's possible that the thing, that the way that I envision it unraveling, or I guess coming together, it's probably the better, better way of putting it. But I do think that there's things that could appear to be failure, like the house getting rented. That could, I mean, there's parts of me that like felt like that was a setback that was like prove in the other way of like, this isn't the way it's supposed to happen, you know? And so I think that there are things that could be like look like failure, but it just means I need to stop, pause, assess and like redirect. And I think that's a big part of people's journeys is so many times we think, oh, that didn't work out how I thought it was. Well, you were probably still meant to do that thing. And to have that failure, so you could stop reassess and look, okay, what do I do next? Do I keep doing it? You know, you could just keep trying to do the thing 'cause like sometimes you just gotta keep doing the thing even though you fail, and then you fail, and then you fail, 'cause eventually you get it right. Or sometimes it means you had the right intentions, you were supposed to try that, you were supposed to learn that lesson and then redirect, you know? In either way, that's not really failure. Failure is just quitting, you know? That is failure. So that I think that's part of it. But for me, what's on the other side of this is two things. One, the me that I was meant to be, that I am meant to be. Like, there's a version of me that is full, complete, healthy has worked through the insecurities has like, is like full of love, chooses to like respond to things in a way that's contributing back to society. And like, you know, there's like this, there's this healthier version of me that like I will get to as I continue to press forward and continue to seek truth and continue to seek ways of growing. So I think that's part of it. So I think as the listeners are on their journey of finding themselves, like, you know, part of me was like, oh, I need to be like, why would they listen to me? Like, they could listen to Mel Robbins, they could listen to like, there's a million people out there who are like, who are successful. They have like incredible careers, best-selling books. Like, why are they going to listen to me? But I think part of what I have to offer is like, I've got a lot of undoing that I still have to do and I'm on this journey as a student along with the listeners. And I hope that they will experience their own journeys and their own evolution and undoing as I am. And, you know, that they're along for the process. And I think that's exciting, you know. - Yeah, I think that the importance of that question, what are the, like, what are the roadblocks? What's past them is not, it's the content, but it's also the meaning behind, you can't answer what the return is. In finding Joe, in the past separation, we're in the initiation, you haven't returned yet. You can't-- - We don't know this going. - Exactly, we have no idea. So for people listening, for people listening, you know, a year from now, who want to go back and listen to the ramblings of us learning how to podcast, it's going to be an easy boat to get onto because you know you're on it with people who are the same spot that you are, that you haven't returned and we'll see where you go. And it's an exciting story. The project as a whole is so, it's important. It's exciting. It is so much to it that is yet to be revealed on this podcast and finding Joe as a movie and the hero's journey is wrapped up so much into your psyche and how you see Ida and yourself and this project and your family and everything that has to do with the project as a whole. So I think it's going to be pretty easy for people to listen to the podcast and relate to us because there's going to be many podcasts where we're going to be like, hey guys, remember that thing that we were so excited for and we were like, just we were there, turns out, we were totally wrong. And we just got, you know, two steps forward or once applied, redirect and yeah, yeah. And I think it stumbled backwards. - You being involved in this is part of your journey as well. Like, you know, talking about like wanting to do something that's like leaving a mark in the world and stuff like that. Like I think this is part of your why as well, you know? And which I love, like I appreciate everything that you bring to the table all that you've, I mean, I wouldn't have been able to do any of this without you and I so appreciate that. But what I love even more is that you're not just like, I want to help and I'm a helper like you are, there's things about this story and this project that excites you and it's a part of what you want to contribute to the world and like, that I love 'cause that is a different dynamic than like, can you help me, you know? So I think that's one of my favorite things. But the second thing I would say that's my, what's on the other end of this is I want to reach every listener and as many listeners as we possibly can. Like because I truly wholeheartedly believe that Ida's story, that my story, that women who have yet to come on this on this podcast, other family members, their stories are meant to be heard and to change lives for people who feel stuck anybody but especially women who are trapped in relationships that are harmful in one way or another who are stuck in substance abuse or trapped but really anyone, anyone who feels stuck this message is for them and these stories are for them that like the impossible is possible just because you can't and like, that's the biggest thing is like if people can't see it then it's really hard for them to believe it and these stories are meant to help people see it in themselves and see that possibility, that potential and to, I want these stories to be that moment that they're cracked open and they see a little bit of that gold or they remember the times that they were cracked open and saw that gold and ignored it and pushed past it or continued to ignore it and just remind them of what they're capable of. - Yeah, absolutely, I think at this point, people understand what we're doing, why we're doing it and this episode is sort of the how we're doing it. How are we able to have this much passion behind what we're doing? It's because for you, it was this movie, it was beyond the movie, it was something that you felt inside as like you couldn't deny it in the movie and with the hero's journey was just such a great way to explain exactly what was happening in your life to where it was just this picture in front of your head. It's like, this is what I've been feeling. This is what I have to do and there's a lot of people out there and a lot of women who, again, I'm not going to speak on for women. - You're an ally. You're an ally. - You're the ally. - But there are a lot of people out there who they know what, they know that there's something missing. They're aware of it. You know it, you know it as a human being, you know if you're only within your own life, you know when something's missing. This podcast is going to tell the story of how and why. - How and why. - How and why. - Out, get unstuck, I guess. - How to get unstuck and for you specifically, it's people in your ancestry and yourself who have found themselves in very difficult situations and we're able to stop, understand what they have and gain so much and grab life and create so much for yourself out of what was really nothing at one point because you just have that because everyone has that in them and finding Joe's a great movie about the hero's journey that is important for everyone to see and important for this project. And this project as a whole is meant to bring, to give people tools to help them understand where they should be at the very least handing you a chisel to start breaking down your armor and finding your skull. - Yep, make it happen. (laughing) - Well like one of the things that they talked about is part of the, when they transitioned from like the separation to the initiation, it's like the trials, right? And one of the things that really hit me hard is like awakening of my, it was kind of like shown a light on the errors of how I was trying to go about things and it was like, you know, I mean, for years I've been dreaming of doing this and I could see it so clearly. I could like see everything, I could like taste it, I could touch it, I could smell it like every detail, I could see how it would like work together and it's like this whole thing is like complicated and weird and like messy, but like I could see it, I could see how everything will be together. But like there's this like cavernous pit that was like between me, now and me there. And I just, I couldn't see how to get over that pit, you know, and I would like listen to podcasts and go, go to seminars or not go to like listen to webinars about like how people navigated these things and I just recently did this incredible leadership class mentorship that was ambition theory with Andrea Janssen, she's incredible. And you know, we started this, that training with like, what do you want to get out of it? And my, what I wanted to get out of it was like, how do I get, like creating a plaque path, a plan to get from here to there? Like that was my goal, right? I go through it and by the end, I learned a lot and it was an incredible training program, but like I didn't see that path any clearer now than I, or at that, at the end of it than I did at the beginning, and I was frustrating for me, but I learned a lot about myself and fast forward to like me watching this movie. They were talking about the nights around table and they're like, they decided when they were like called to the journey of, or the, the goal of finding the holy grail like they decided to each go into the dark forest at their own entry path. And essentially they explain that if you go to the forest and there's a path there, that path is not for you. You have to go where there is no path, where there's no light where it's darkest for you. And that is your path. And that is your journey because you have to go through trials that are specifically meant for you. And it just dawned on me and I'm like, oh, duh! Like I've been trying to follow someone else's path. I've been trying to find the path. I used to think that taking a step of faith was like knowing the risks and like, and doing it anyways. But like when I'm finding now, it's like that leap of faith is like, you don't know what's gonna be there. Like it's like there's no, it's like an invisible step that you have to just believe something's gonna catch you. - Yeah. - And hope. And like once I started taking those leaps of faith, those true leaps of faith, those death-defying leaps of faith, that's when the synchronicity is, and that's when the proof started coming. And so it's like all this time, I've been trying to find someone else's path, but that wasn't for me. And that was just like hit me, like a ton of bricks. Like, oh, okay, I guess I get it now, you know? - Yeah. And how it's so scary when you don't see the path in front of you, you've no idea what's going to end up. But it's, how exciting is it to get to a certain point where you're able to look back, even if you're just a little bit down in this new path of yours. You're able to look back and say, oh, that's clearly different from this person's path. But I do think that I'm closer to what they are when I want to be than where I was. It's very interesting, it's really exciting to get to a certain point where you can look back and say, my path is cool. It's interesting. It's full of all these spots I never thought I would go, but I'm definitely in a better place than I was where I wasn't, then where I was when I wasn't comfortable to make any sort of a leap. And you can still, you still can be not exactly where you want to be, but in a point in your life where you are just so pumped with what you've accomplished. And it's kind of compounds because the more leaps, blind leaps that you do take, the more confidence that you get that the next time you take one, it's okay, it's not gonna be that bad. It's been through it. And sometimes you take a leap and it is that bad, but then you get through that. You have another opportunity to take a blind leap where you're like, well, you know, that sucked. But it's practice, it's practice to you. I think that helps when you're taking these leaps of faith and when you're like, okay, even if I don't get the results I was hoping for, even if I fall on my face, it's still practice and stepping out. And like in the movie they say, like do something that scares you at least every seven days, and I loved that because being scared, having fear, being gripped by fear, like I'm still afraid. Like I'm still like terrified of like a lot of things I'm doing right now, but I'm doing it anyways. And by just doing it, I am reinforcing, I'm like, having that practice, it's practice. I'm practicing stepping out and the more we all do that, the more we practice stepping out and doing something that scares us, the more we're gonna be ready for when we get the call if you haven't, if you feel like you haven't gotten the call, the more you're putting yourself in that position of being uncomfortable, the more likely you are to get that call, and that's exciting. And I would say that's one of the things I wanna challenge listeners at is like, if you don't know where you're going, you don't know what's ahead, you don't know what your purpose is, you haven't found your bliss yet. Just do something that scares you, try things out. I mean, they talked about that a lot. Like, you know, there's so many people who haven't found their bliss because they haven't adventured at all and they haven't found it because they haven't tried it. So like, if you don't know where you are meant to be doing, start trying stuff, start just like create a list of things that scare you and like, or things that you've been intrigued by or interested in and just start going down the list and doing something that scares you and that challenges you or interests you every week. - And this is what we're doing now. - Yeah. - You are doing, we are in the middle of something that is scary, it's challenging, it's interesting, it's different for both of us and for everyone involved and for everyone we hope to impact. Everything about this is weird. It's different and it's not normal, but it's one of those things in life that's just so necessary and if you understand that and are willing to get weird, life can be incredibly fulfilling and you can understand that there is beauty and comfort in fear and I think that's important for everybody to feel at some point in their lives. And so at this point they know the what and the why and the how and I think it's about a time that we really start diving into Ida and her life and her story and the rest of this project and this journey that we are excited to go with people on for the next foreseeable future. - Yeah. - This is the podcast that we're going to add. - And it lends to the last part that we actually didn't get to of the hero's journey is the return, which we're still, well in a way we're kind of we're like this project actually places us in like lots of different parts of the hero's journey and think about it 'cause like in a way we are in the return stage because we're telling Ida's story because she has returned. And so like and that's that's the whole idea the return is because like every great epic hero, every great story, they fight the dragon, they get the treasure, they do the thing that they never thought they could possibly do, they become the person they never thought they could be and then they go home. They go back to the place that they felt stuck in and they share with other people that are like them that feel stuck and they tell the story. They tell a story about how they overcome, they overcame it and what they, I love how they say this like in the movie it's like the story of finding the treasure is this treasure. Like that's the magic because that's like so many people in the movie like Tony Hawkins, Tony Hawkins, Tony Hawkins. - Wait, Tony Hawkins. - Tony Hawkins. - Tony Hawkins. - Okay. I don't know why it was when he was saying Hawkins. Who the hell was Tony Hawkins? - No one's saying Hawkins stands. - Yeah, Tony Hawkins. - Tony Hawkins. - Merging, anyways. Tony Hawkins was talking about how he wanted to build skate parks for kids 'cause he wanted them to have the same opportunities to find his passion. So many people, if they're in a good place and if they've gone through the journey in the right way instead of just reaching for the things but they've reached inside themselves to become the person they're meant to be. Like I think all of those people that you can see the character that was built through their journey. Every single one of them are reaching back. It's like they get so far and then they reach back and they tell the story and they show what's possible to the people who were in a similar place that they were in and that is the magic. That's why you go through the trial not just so that you can become the person you're meant to be that's so that you can share that with other people and like the ripple effect of that is like blows my mind. You know, like I mean, all of the people that we're gonna be telling these stories to, that's gonna be awesome. But think about all the women and men and children whoever is listening to this. All of the people's, people whose lives are changed they'll have a new story and they'll be able to tell that story and it's like the ripple effect of that, the multiplication factor of it, just it's inexplainable when I think about it. - The impact of not just going on your journey as a hero but the impact that understanding that you have a journey and if we can help people understand that and see that they have a pathway that they can go down, and they can listen to this podcast and listen to us and understand that we are currently going down that pathway now, we're on the journey now. And I'd say for myself, I would say I'm not at the slaying dragon stage. I'm maybe even still looking for the dragon, but it's, I think that's where most people are and a lot of people get stuck separating the concrete from the gold and a lot of people get stuck looking for the dragon, but everyone is on a journey and that's what we're here to do is to tell Ida's journey and to tell, talk about your journey and help people understand that they have options and pathways and resources and opportunities and there's so much out there that you don't have to be stuck covered in mud. - For more, yeah, yeah, I love it. - Well, great, I thought I'd think this was a great podcast understanding of why we're doing this and what we wanna bring to everyone's lives. - Yeah, and thank you for entertaining me by watching the movie. - Yeah. - It's a good movie. - I do love it as much as I don't know. - Finding Joe, everyone should watch the movie. It was a great movie. The hero's journey and it's, you know, if you listen to this and you're, you know, if it's 2026 and you're listening to this because we, for whatever reason, we actually do resonate with people if you go back and listen to these episodes or if you're one of the first ones in the next couple of weeks who start listening to this, go watch Finding Joe. It's very important, very, very intertwined with what this project is, the hero's journey. - And I can't wait to see where this takes when you were talking about the, you know, what, going back to watch this, like, if, you know, many, many episodes from now, it just got me like, super pumped. Like, I can't wait, I can't wait to look back and see how far we've come. And I cannot wait to see here the stories of all the people, you know, who, who this was that chisel for them, you know, this was the call for them. Like, I can't wait to hear everyone's stories of these listeners and I can't wait to hear all the stories of the different guests that we're going to bring on. And I can't wait to see how this all evolves for us, for me, for you, for, it's exciting. And I love being a part of it. And thank you for being a part of it as well. - Thank you for having me on. I'm excited, I'm too excited to see where we go and what this becomes. And I think that these first three initiation episodes of this podcast are important for us to be able to reference to and for people to see, you know, I believe also with you that this is going to be impactful for many people. And I think that a big thing for us, these first three podcasts are big for us to be able to have a reference point to say, hey, listen, you know, three years from now, we will be telling people, go back and listen to our first three episodes. If we can do it, you can do it, you know what I mean? So, and I think it's important for people to know that we're just sitting in chairs and talking and bringing ideas to the table and creating something that's way bigger than us as individuals. And if we can do it, anyone can do it because there's nothing extraordinary about us besides the individual paths that we find ourselves on. - Yeah, and our potential, the potential that each and every person I don't care where they're at, what that potential looks like, the potential is incredible. And it's worth going through the dark forest. It's worth going through all those trials. And as painful at like, I don't ever want to like not acknowledge how painful life can be. I mean, it can be, and it has been. I've seen how difficult it can be, but it's, but just hang on, hold on. You might not be able to see what's next. We don't know how everything's gonna unfold, but just hang on, hold on, keep going. Don't quit quitting as failure. And we're excited to evolve, and evolve with you, and can't wait for the next one. - Can't wait.