The Punchline

Hey, it's Latif. This is RadioLab. Today, I'm going to resurface a story with an interview that was one of, if not the hardest, gets of my career. It took me two years of pasturing. I regularly pastored the guy's PR people, then his agent, his book agent, even him directly. I got multiple knows at multiple points, and you're probably thinking, "Who is this guy? Is it the president? Is it a rock and roll hall of fame?" No, it was this humble, unassuming Canadian guy you've probably never even heard of, but I had just fallen for his story so hard. I knew I had to tell it. So, when I finally did get that, yes. When I finally did interview him, the only time he offered to talk to me was when he was at home on Dad Duty, and you could hear his kid banging on a piano in the background. I was like, "Oh, this audio is terrible." I can't do this. I could barely hear him. He wasn't paying attention. It just felt like one of those moments where the whole thing was going to fall apart. But then something magical happened. You'll hear it in the episode. It's this moment between him and his daughter that felt so intimate, so tender, that it just convinced me like, "Oh, this story is going to be even better than I thought." I hope you enjoy this episode from 2019, the punchline. You're listening to Radio Lab. Radio from W and Y. Oh my god. So, this, uh, I had. Hey, I'm Chad, I'm Ron. I'm Robert Crowich, this is Radio Lab. And we have another story for you. Another adventure, courtesy of who else? Well, reporter, mother's master. So, the way I first learned about the story is that I saw that there was this article trending in this online publication called The Player's Tribune, which is like a kind of athlete's magazine. Which, of course, you subscribed to. Which, of course, I subscribed to because I'm like, "Scronius." I'm the least athletic. I'm the only scrawny couch potato, basically. But anyway, the thing that jumped out to me about this article is that it's a sports story, but it's actually so much more like it's a story about voting, it's a story about cyberbullying, it's a story about, you know, sticking it to the establishment, it's a, it's a sports story, but it's like, it's one that feels like it could only have happened at this very specific moment that we're living in right now. Yeah, I mean, I don't know if we can always paint sports as a microcosm of society, but in this case, it's undeniable that it was. So the whole story starts with this guy, Greg Wysinski. Are you guys talking about today? Hockey stuff. Greg is a hockey journalist. Senior NHL writer for ESPN. Known to his legions of fans as Pockadatti. Is that a self-given name? No. He got it from his editor when he first started blogging about hockey. The other option at the time was Zamboni Pony, which would have been a horrible name, and I very much avoided an entire, you know, 10-year run of people calling me the Pony. That's true. Right. But now. I have my notes. I'm ready to roll now. Oh, okay. Well, let's just jump in then. Yeah. So we are live happy. This story really begins on the podcast that I did with the gentleman by the name of Jeff Merrick in the wrong industry, but basically a couple hockey writers just shooting the breeze on hockey. Well, you know what, I just see where we're in the hockey industry. And as you know, the hockey industry is about making money, making new fans, turning ahead. Okay, so this is November 2015. Just a few months before the NHL's, you know, big mid-season spectacle. Welcome to Amalia Reena. The All-Star Game. NHL All-Star Game. There is a sense that I have about this game that's worrisome. And so this year, yet again, the NHL for the hundredth time in the last 15 years was changing the format of the All-Star Game. This year, the Honda NHL All-Star Game features a three-on-three tournament consisting of four different teams, one from each division. Hockey's typically five-on-five, three-on-three, however, is supposed to be like, you know, way more action, a lot more scoring, a lot more fun, but for Greg and Jeff, who are, you know, these hockey purists, they're like, yet again, the NHL is just changing things up to get more eyeballs on this game that, by this point, has just become a watered-down, half-speed joke of a game. It's not a game, it makes a mockery of it, but it's just like it. So the two of them, as many die-hard hockey traditionalists do, go off on the NHL. And eventually, that leads them to talk about the other, what they see is the other really dumb thing about that year's All-Star Game. Fan voting. Fan voting has long been a part of the game. As a kid, there was nothing else better than grabbing a little punch card at a game and knocking out the little circles and trying to grab like 30 of them to make sure that, you know, Kirk Muller gets a spot in the All-Star Game or whatever. But over the years, the NHL had started reducing the number of players that could get voted in. One year, they were even accused of turning off the vote when they didn't like where it was headed. And anyway, this year, the NHL had limited the vote so much that the fans could only vote in four players, a captain for each division, the Pacific, the Central, the Atlantic, the Metropolitan. But four players, all you could vote in. That just seems to run counter to what the All-Star Game history tradition should be to what we really want with this All-Star Game, which is fan engagement at the end. And at that point, they started thinking, what if we use the little voting power that we do have to mess with the All-Star Game? We need someone in there who normally would not be in this game. Like as a joke, we should vote somebody in who just does not belong. And Greg's like, I like that thought, okay. But who? Who would fit the bill there? And as Greg was thinking about it, he thought, you know, it'd be funny. You know, really messed with the NHL, is if we vote in a player. A player who couldn't really keep up, couldn't really shoot, couldn't really handle the puck. The slow guy with the bad hands couldn't do anything. Let's really, you know, drop a stink bomb in the room. And then it hit him. The perfect guy. A Goliath of the league. John Scott. Oh my god, John Scott, I'll start. So John Scott was a behemoth. Yeah, he cracked the ice. He was a guy that would only play between like five and eight minutes a night. John Scott, on a break away. Couldn't really shoot. He missed. Couldn't really skate. And on top of that, when John Scott was on the ice, that's a cheap shot. That's unacceptable. The only thing he was good at was knocking other people senseless. You know, hockey terms. This guy is a predator. John Scott was what you would call an old-fashioned good. Yes. Oh my god. That's the one. He's the one. He's the guy. From that point on, there was no other answer to the question. Like, that was the guy that it would have to be. And what started there as a tying joke between two guys on a podcast would end up twisting the fate and fortune of one of the most feared, load, punishing players in the national hockey. You be quiet. Yeah. Change some things for his family too. Be soft. Hello. Hey, okay. I'm calling you for myself on how's this? Oh, much better. So this is John. Yeah, we're good. Morgan gave me the thumbs up. All right. Great. Okay. Oh, yeah. My, my daughters here too. So if there's like sounds, it's just my daughter cruising around. No, that's cute. I love it. Okay, good. Okay. So I think to really understand what it was like for John to be on the other end of this, to be like, you know, like the butt of a joke, you need to understand what hockey meant to John, like what it meant for him to be playing in the NHL. Like, everyone has their dreams. Like, when you're a kid, express that in the state, it's football baseball in Canada. When you ask a seven, eight year old, we do those projects in class. What do you want to be when you grow up? And I think 90% of the boys were like, I'm going to be in the NHL. And I always said, now my parents have all that stuff all over the walls and stuff. But yeah, I always dreamed of playing the NHL. I think everybody, that was their big dream. So yeah. So John has this classic Canadian hockey kid story put on skates when I was three. My dad built the rink in the backyard, played all the time every single day, morning, noon and night. And you would just go to sleep in your gear and wake up and just jump right on the ice, skate until seven or eight at night and you just jump in bed and go to sleep. You just kept it on at the same time. But the thing about John was that even as a kid, I was a monster. I came out of the womb 24, 25, 24 and a half inches long and I was 11 pounds, 12 pounds. I was huge. School pitchers was a joke. Everyone thought I was like a teacher's assistant when I hit like grade seven, eight, nine because I was so tall. And when you're young and you're that tall, you have zero, zero coordination. And so John was never the top guy in his team. Never the fastest, never the most skilled, never, you know, the best at anything. I just kind of sorry, my daughter just started playing the piano beside us. Yeah. Are you okay with the piano, the team? I can I'll get her off. Okay. Yeah. That would be great. Sorry. Cute. That last question. All right. We're good. Thanks. Yeah. Um, so you. Oh, yeah. Um, see, well, there's something you said that you, uh, here. Let me, let me put her to bed one second. Sorry. Let's go. Yeah. No, take your time. Take, totally take your time. I'll, I'll keep you on the phone. I will take two seconds. But even if she cries up there, she'll be fine. Follow you. Is that okay? Yeah. Follow you. She's just a little sorely. Good questions. Oh, T. You're from Mrs. Saga. Yeah. I'm from Mrs. Saga. So you're in Boston, New York, now, or? No. So, so I, yeah, I'm calling you from Boston. My cell phone is Boston. I, my job is in New York, but I actually live in L.A. Oh, wow. You're just like all over the map. Yeah. I'm kind of well, not, I mean, I feel like compared to you, you've been all over the map for real. All right. Let me put her in here. You don't have me. All right. Now she's done. Perfect. That's good. God. What kind of kid do you have? You could put her down so easily. She's like the best kid ever. It's great. I don't know how we locked up in her, but she was on number five. And we needed that. She was anything but perfect. We've been in trouble. All right. We're back. All right. Let's, let's get back. Okay. We're back. We're back. Okay. Okay. So to jump back in, John plays throughout his school years. By the time he's getting close to college, a lot of his friends are getting, you know, offers, scholarships to different, you know, big time schools, University of Minnesota, Boston college, places like that. For John, there was just no interest. Like coaches thought he was too big to play, wouldn't be able to keep up out there on the ice. But eventually, he did get one offer to play for a middle-level university Michigan Tech. And I just figured I would, in all honesty, I would finish college and get a job. That would be it. I would have gotten education for free and, you know, I play hockey with the guys on the weekends, but that was, that would be the end of hockey. But then a couple of things happened. First, at school, I kind of always noticed him. He met Danielle because he was about two feet taller than anybody else on campus. They were both engineering students started dating senior year. You know, we kind of hit things off and the rest was history. And the other thing that happened was, I got this opportunity to go play for the Houston arrows, Minnesota's farm team, a minor league team. It wasn't crazy money. It was 30,000 or 35,000. He talked to Danielle about it. He was like, well, let me give this hockey thing like a go. Like, this is the only chance I'm going to get to be able to say I played pro. And the way that I kind of looked at it was, oh, okay, it's just like a little head start. And then once I graduate, like, we'll both get our jobs, like our real jobs and move on with our lives. So John moved down to Houston. I didn't have any expectations. I just worked my tail off. I was a bad skater. I worked at skating. I was a bad pastor. I would work at passing after practice. But he says no matter what he did, he would not get any playing time. I was always a step or two behind. I was, I think the ninth defenseman on the roster and you only dressed six for a game. So I never played the first, I think, month of the season. But while John was in Houston, he noticed that there were these other big guys on the team and they were getting playing time. They kind of took me into their wings and they said, hey, listen, if you really want to get noticed down here, if you really want to go to the NHL, you should learn how to fight. It worked perfectly because that's what happened. So for those of you who don't follow hockey too much, I have guys on my team who make 10 million, nine million, eight million dollars and they are paid to score and they are paid to perform and play well. But there are also guys out there. They are the ugly children of the NHL. Their job is to they are instigators, aggravators, pester, annoyed and we call them the rats, the pests. And you can hear these guys like when they're mic'd up. How are you even here? Like 10 guys to right now? Running their mouths. What are you doing out here? They try to get under the star players skin. They'll jab and poke at these star players, but sometimes they'll use their stick to hack at them or they'll check them into the board. They'll try and really hurt them. So in order to deal with pests, you got people like John who are called enforcers. So basically my job is to make sure those pests don't pester my top guys. And so when we would go into a game, I would know exactly who to pinpoint because you know, you do your scouting and I would go up to those guys and I would say, Hey, listen, if you're going to do that, I'm going to put my fists through your face. And more often than not, just the fear of the retribution if they did something would would stop them. And you can see the frustration in big John Scott's eyes. But if they did do something, my job was to beat them up. And I was the heck of a fighter when I made the NHL. John Scott can really punch people. Those John would take care of the pests. They wouldn't fight. I would usually grab their tough guy and beat him up. If we were playing flat and we didn't have energy, I would go out and try to fight to get my guys going. Or if it was a really bad hit, I would just grab that guy and I would beat his doors off. That's funny through all my career, I really hated fighting. There was days where I wouldn't sleep at night just because I knew I was going to get into a fight, but you just do your job. And I think I did my job well. Well enough that John was able to make a career in the NHL. It's everything you dream of as a kid. It was kind of like a leap of faith and it worked out great. So by this point, Danielle and John had gotten married. You know, we had bought our first house. Soon after, had their first two kids, it was just so beyond anything we are I ever expected. Tell me, tell me all the names of all the teams that you played for. Oh my gosh, I'm embarrassed. So in 2008, John started playing in the NHL for the Minnesota Wild. After that, he played for Chicago in New York and Buffalo in San Jose and throughout his whole career as an enforcer, there was this shift going on in professional hockey. A lot of the hockey establishment and the media, the execs and the league were pushing for the game to be more high scorned, to be more about skill and speed. And a lot of people started coming out and saying there should not be a place in this league for fighting. I was the easy target. This guy is a goon. If you haven't seen the movie, you don't have to bother. This is a goon. They went after me and they said, listen, we don't need guys like this in a league. There's no room for it in the game. There's no room for guys in the game. Their sole purpose is to punch people. I believe the players that play in this league should be able to skate and pass and not simply ignite a fight. We're going to eliminate players like this, which is one of the reasons why for guys like Greg Wiesinski and Jeff Merrick voting John Scott into the All Star game was not just a hilarious joke about a big guy who couldn't skate, but it was also a big fat middle finger to the hockey establishment. I'm so I'll just do the whole the big point to it. I was we were on the road and we were on the bus heading to a game or a pregame skate. It was December 2015. John was playing for the Arizona coyotes. And a guy in my team, Anders Linbeck, our goalie. He was sitting beside me and he's like, Hey, you're you know, you're in. It was like 56th place or something, you know, of the fan voting. And I was like, Oh, you know, that's great. People think it's a joke. They're going to vote for me a little bit. And it was it was nothing serious. So that's that's how I first heard of it on the bus. So we go to the we go to the rink. We do our skate literally after the skate. He checks his phone again. And he's like, Holy Calman, you're like top 25. It happened that fast. And then the next day I was top five and then like the day after that, I was number one. There's a surprise leader in fan voting for the upcoming NHL All Star game. And his name is John Scott seriously. It was like a young Scott, the enforcer for the mega story. Arizona's John Scott is leading the NHL. It was unbelievable how quickly it grew. John Scott number one, the number one vote getter. among all players in the NHL. Which meant that John would be an all-star game captain. Team captain at the all-star game. Let that sink in for a second. And for the fans who were voting for John, there was definitely a bit of like, oh, you shrunk the number of players we can vote in. Oh, yeah? Oh, really? Well, we're gonna make our votes count then. Here's Johnny, but I think for a majority of voters voting for John. Let's be honest, it was just really simple. The reason John Scott's leading the voting is because it's funny. John Scott is not an all-star. His one goal over eight games he barely plays. Like in this three-on-three format, where there were supposed to be a bunch of speed and skill, wouldn't it be funny to see this big-- Arizona Coyote's Goon. Ogre. Fighter with no skills. Objectively bad at hockey. I don't know what he's doing in the league. Make a fool of himself. Oh, I hated it. This isn't funny anymore. I get it. Like, I'm this terrible player who you guys think would be fun to watch me, you know, fail in this game. But I just figured it would end on its own. Honestly, I thought it would last a few days and people would get, you know, they're enough of it and it would go away, but it just didn't. And as for the NHL? They were pissed. I mean, to put it, frankly, I definitely got the sense from some of the people that I speak to on a regular basis at the NHL that they were really angry that this was happening. And why-- like, can you get any more specific about why this would have been an embarrassment to them? Like, what is it exactly that they were so sensitive about? They were sensitive about the fact that the All-Star game is something that a lot of old-time hockey people-- and there's a lot of old-time hockey people that run the National Hockey League-- see as something prestigious, one of the ultimate honors for a player. And so this was not something they wanted to happen. And it was happening. And they didn't really know what to do about it because they didn't have any fail-saves in place to prevent it from happening. After one day of John sitting atop the All-Star vote-- We're just laying about the kids are sleeping. John gets a text message. He gets about a bed, goes over to his phone, starts reading it. And he's just standing there for like a while. Selfishly, I just want to go to bed. But then I can tell something that's just got him stewing over there. And it was his PR guy from the coyotes. They thought it'd be a good idea to release a statement. And they wrote up this statement for me. And it basically said, thank you for the support. I don't want your votes. Please vote for other guys on my team. Basically, his own team is saying-- Step away from the All-Star game. I saw him respond, yeah, that statement's fine. And then delete it. And then just sit there and look at it. And I just remember asking, would you want to go? And he's just like-- Well, yeah, I think-- because as a kid, I watched all the All-Star games. It was so fun to watch. And I would dream to be in it. So yeah. And I'm like, well, they want you to release a statement, release a statement, but make sure that it's true. And so John ends up writing a statement that reads, quote, it's nice to be thought of by all of the fans. And for that, I am truly flattered and grateful. And while I would love to experience an All-Star game, I think a few of my teammates are a bit more deserving of a vote. And so it's sort of like, I would go if I get voted, but there's other people who deserve it more. I said, yeah, sure, send it out. I wasn't totally on board with it, but I just wanted to appease the higher-ups to hopefully help them. But even after that, it was still-- John's got number one vote getter. Oh, by far. Yeah, it's funny. They stopped showing how many votes the players were getting. They took that option off the website, because I think I was ahead by so many. It's like you broke the website. Yeah, so they took that away. And then the NHL, they really tried to strong-arm me. Oh, yeah, what happened there? So I was in my bedroom in Arizona. And they called, and it was one of the higher-ups in NHL. And he just wanted to know how I was feeling. It was getting really close to the end of the voting. I just said, yeah, I want to go to the game. I think it'll be fun. I think it'll be good for everybody involved. And he's like, really? Are you sure? You think you'll be able to keep up? You think you're good enough? You're not exactly a skill guy, John. And they started that way, and I just brushed it off. I was like, yeah, I can skate pretty well. I'm a good decent hockey player. And he goes, well, what do you talk to your dad? What do you think? First, he goes, is your dad alive? And I was like, yeah, he's alive. What do you think he's going to think about this situation? He think you're going to make him proud. And I was like, what? I don't think that has anything to do with this. And I kind of brushed that off. And at this time, I'm getting a little angry, because I'm just like, man, let me flip and play. And then he's like, well, what do you think your kids are going to think when they look back on this, you think they're going to be proud of their dad, who went into the all-star game this way. And as soon as he brought my kids into the equation, I just like lost it. And I kind of snap back at him. I'm like, you're being a real bleep and bleep, and bleep, and bleep, and we have back and forth. And he started cussing at me. And then I finally like snap back into my holy calm, like yelling at one of the headguys in NHL. I should like dial it back. And I apologize to the star. Like, you know, you pushed a wrong button, like, let's talk tomorrow. I'll let you know if I'm going to go or not. I left it like that. So John slept on it. -Woke up the next day. -Called to do the next morning, and I said, I'm going. After the break, we'll see you at the game. -Maybe we will. -Yeah, maybe. -Maybe not, I-- -Maybe not, yeah. Three, two, one, Chad. -Rabbert. -Radio lab. -Back to hockey. -And report a lot of NASA. OK, so about two weeks before the all-star game, John is just getting ready for practice. And the GM of this team comes up to him. Been talking to me all the time throughout this all-star stuff. And I thought it was just going to be another conversation about that. And he pulls me into this stick room, and he's like, yeah. I just traded you to Montreal. And I was like, are you effing kidding me? What? And he's like, yeah, it was a hockey move. We needed a little defensive help, and we traded you to Montreal for this guy. And I said, this is an effing joke. Are you kidding me? And he said, sorry. The deal's been done. I was like, OK, whatever. Super shady to be traded right after I am finally in the all-star game. It's like, if it smells like a duck, it talks like a duck, it's fishy. We called John's former team and the NHL about this, and I either wanted to talk. And then the less what happened next is that a short while later, John is in the locker room. Gathering my things, trying to say goodbye to the guys, and he pulls me aside again. And the GM tells him, actually, Montreal, the team we just traded you to, they're now going to demote you. They're sending you to St. John's, Newfoundland, their farm team. You're in the minor leagues now. Go see the trainer, get your stuff ready. You're leaving today. According to the terms of the trade, he had to be on the plane that same day. And that's when I was just like, I was done. I was like, OK, done. See ya. And I just checked out. I went, like, found somewhere in the ring. I called my wife. Who, by the way, was nine months pregnant with twins? I get the phone call from John. In those situations, he's kind of a man of like few words. Tells are, we're in the minors now. Then I'm like, all right, we'll be fine. Plan C, where's the minor team? Like, how do I get there? And he's like, yeah, it's literally on the other side of the world. It is North America's easternmost city. Like, you could not go further from where I'm at right now and still be on this continent. And I said, sorry, I got to go. Can you please handle all of this? Take my two kids, take the two kids in your belly, take all my stuff, pack it up, a guy have to leave. It's so bizarre to have to say that to her. And like, there's nothing I could have done. You just say, I'm sorry, I have to go. And I was just thinking to myself, okay, you know? Like, just trying to hold on to hope. Like, we can make this work. Let's see where it's at. And I'm like, looking at flights. And like, I pull up kayak. And I'm seeing like the flights. And it's like 16 hours of travel, 14 hours of travel, 18 hours of travel. And like, the price is for like a ticket is like $1,600. Like, it's set in. It really all hit me at that moment. And I just like, stop. - I composed myself, got my gear, told the GM to go, you know, wherever. And I jumped in the car, packed up my shit and went to St. John's. - You want to talk about John Scott, so we needn't have the debate. No, I guess the floor is yours. - Quiet. - Canadian legend, Don Sherry, on the Hit TV show, Hockey Night in Canada. - Anyhow, you jerks that it put him up for to be in the All-Star game. What you've done, you've taken this kid who was doing pretty good, playing six minutes, played 12 minutes, didn't matter. He's an Arizona NHL contract. What you did was you took him, put him in the minors now. Lots of fun, eh? I bet you're very proud of yourself because the NHL this year is gonna be terrific. And you're going, you tried to ruin it all. And you're ruined this kid. He's in the minors, never to come back. I bet you should be ashamed of yourself. You should be ashamed of yourself. That's it. - I saw this news hit, and my first reaction was you have got to be kidding me. - Again, Greg Wasinski, who started the John Scott for All-Star campaign. - It was weird. Oh man, they just make this problem go away. - But was there part of you who was like, oh my god, like, oh my god. I started this. This is on me. - No, because at that point, there had been criticism of us for having this campaign and obviously when John Scott came out. - I was like, you guys ruined my career or the sucks. - Sort of poo-pooed it off the bat. Made you feel like maybe you've done something kind of bad to a dude. But the campaign had kind of taken on a life of its own. And at that point, John Scott said he wanted to be an all-star, wanted to represent a certain type of player. - My role is almost extinct. I'm the last of my kind out here. And it would be cool to go out with the bank. - All of this friends were saying you should do it. He wanted to do it because people were telling him - Right, no, I don't mean it necessarily that it's your fault or anything, but in a way that you could have foreseen it. But you started the train. Was there a part of you that was like, oh my God, like if I hadn't said that one thing on my podcast, like this guy wouldn't have had to uproot his whole life? - No, I mean, again, I feel like it was the National Hockey League at this point that was standing in his way. - Now, whatever you think about the initial prank or John being demoted, this is the moment, Greg says, when the crowd mood totally shifted. - Complete outrage. - This is trash. - Like complete outrage. - This is garbage. I'm not gonna go on a rant about democracy. It became protests online. - This is a lousy thing to do. - Sweeping through the hockey world, like look, the fans voted this guy in. The NHL is doing all it can to keep this guy out, and that's not right. - You wanna change this? Contact your favorite sports writer in your city. Since the NHL is so damn image-conscious, why don't you put pressure on your favorite reporter to stick up for John Scott? I can only imagine how John feels right now. - Well, pissed off. Sorry for yourself. Then you feel you get sad. Do I even wanna play hockey? What do I wanna do, like, do I just quit hockey and go work? Like, you think about all these things. - But now that you're in the minor leagues, are you allowed to play for the all-star game? - That's the thing, no one knew. - He says right after he was demoted to the minor leagues. People started to, you know, read through the by-laws, read through the books. - Trying to figure out, like, can a minor league player play in the professional NHL all-star game? And it turns out-- - There was no rule that even remotely addressed the situation, like it was totally unprecedented. - And so the pressure stayed on. The NHL knew that if John Scott wasn't in the all-star game, there's probably visions from the NHL of protest signs along the glass, of fans out outside the arena holding a rally because John Scott was snubbed. - And according to Greg, hockey fans are notorious for throwing jerseys onto the ice in protest, causing scenes, and eventually the national hockey league had to acquiesce. They put out a statement. - They made a statement saying, "Hey, if John wants to go, he can go." - But John says at this point-- - I told everybody I'm not going. Like, the NHL PA, I told all my friends, the teammates, I'm like, I'm done. Like, this is a bogus. Like, I don't wanna do this. He says, between the fans making fun of him and the league demoting him, the whole thing was just too humiliating. - But I was just like, John, you may regret this. I know you wanna like run away and hide right now, and like going in front of all these people is the very last thing you wanna do, but you might regret it. - She's like, let's go. It'll be fun for the family. The kids will love it. I would love to see you go and prove these people wrong. My wife was building me back up and solely but surely, I was like, okay, you know what? I'm fucked this. Let's do it. (dramatic music) - Very impressive here in Nashville. - January 31, 2016. - Nashville. - It's a complete circus. It was unbelievable. I was obviously the big story. So the moment I land, there's reporters everywhere. Ask me questions. - John would be representing the Pacific Division in the All Star game. - And we had to play, I think it was a central who everyone said they were stacked because they had all the stud players on their team. - Players play. - Matt Ducin. - Mattie Ducin. - James Neil, all of these much younger, much higher paid players. And then you had, John. - I knew everybody was staring at me, and I'm weird about my hair 'cause I'm going bald and I'm skating around like I wish I would have grabbed my hat. I was like, dang it. Everything is buzzing. - Dan yells in the stands with their two little kids. - Everybody's looking for him to fail. - Yeah, this dummy's gonna make an ass for himself. - And before the game, the coach comes up to him. - Coach asked me if I wanted to start, and I just said no, please let me stay on the bench. - And the coach is like, all right. But you're going in early. So John's teammates skate out to center ice. He's sitting on the bench, butterflies in his stomach. (crowd cheering) - Ref drops the puck. Right away, 26 seconds into the game. John's team goes down to one nothing. - With an early one, not that late. - And how about the hands and the playmates and the maddies you shan't right there at the Colorado Avalanche, brilliant feet with James Neil? - It was like a terrific goal. Like it was a pass to a one-timer shot. Like, it was a goal that all stars make. - John's coach looks at him and says, "Scott, you're in." Remember, this is three on three. There is a ton of open eyes. - There's nowhere to go, like there's nowhere to hide. - And John says that skating out to center ice, he just kept thinking, don't mess up, don't mess up. Don't make a fool of yourself. - And that's all I was thinking about. - Ref's got the puck, holds it about center ice. - I don't belong here. - They think you're a joke. - Don't screw it up. - Drops it. - Once the puck drops, you just kind of, you know, everything else goes away and you just start playing hockey. Just was like going back to when I was younger. I wasn't the best, I wasn't the fastest, but you, you know, you just start playing. And that's what I did. This time, John steam took possession of the puck. - I'm so hyped to get it as Brent Burns. - Burns, he had the puck and we're going up the ice. - John and his teammates charge across center ice, they move into their opponent zone. When Brent Burns passes the puck to John, John manages to control it. He's kind of up against the board, so he's using his body to protect the puck, trying to figure out what to do now. When he makes this nice little backhand pass, - Burns, he had the puck on the right wing and all of a sudden I noticed. - Between two of the defenders, there's this nice little lane right to the net. - I went to the net. - Burns spotted John. - And he put the puck right on my stick. - John's just like a few feet from goal and the goal he's actually out of position. - I had a wide open net and I shot it. And I missed the net. - Like a wide open net. But the goalie was luckily sliding back into position. - And so the puck hit the goalie, bounced off the goalie and. - Stop! - Into the back of the net. - Score! - Score! - Score! - There you go. There you go. - It was awesome. Like I was so jacked up. I had goosebumps like after the goal. It was so neat. It was cool. Everybody went nuts. That was the neat thing, the crowd. I didn't know how they were going to react. Usually they boo me because everybody booed me and they were all for it. - And John Scott will get a standing ovation. - The weird thing about the Mass is too. It's like how quickly everybody can go from hating you, to loving you. It was such a sense of relief for me. - The huge monkey was lifted off my back 'cause I was like, okay. - I did something for the team, I didn't mess up. - He's gonna relax and have fun. Just like be himself in place. - Which he did. He laid out this guy Patrick Kane. And then the two of them dropped their gloves. Pretended to have a fight. He got a couple nice passes. Had a really close shot on goal. He was just kind of doing everything. - And every time John Scott was on camera or touched the puck, the crowd would come to life. Greg Woshinsky was actually there reporting at the game and he was down in the tunnels. Interviewing other All-Stars. - And what happens when you're down in the bowels of the arena is that the All-Stars games on TV is, but there's a delay between what the broadcast has and what's happening on the ice. So typically you'll hear something happen in the game before you actually watch it on TV. And I remember hearing this gigantic roar from the crowd. And then everybody kind of looked over at the TV and watched the All-Stars game. - 6.50 to go in the game if tied a shootout. - Okay, so what happened, what elicited that roar was that it was getting to the end of the game, tight game. John's team was up by one. - We were in our zone, playing defense, and all of a sudden, their team shot it. We had a save, and Bernzi got the puck behind the net, and I just blew the zone. I skated to the zone as fast as I could, 'cause I knew he was gonna get it. He saw me up the middle and he fired a nice pass, and I corralled it and took off down the center of the ice. - It's gone for two. - They had someone hounding me. - But John so big, he was able to keep this defender off of him. So it was just John, the goalie, and the net. He gathered the puck. - I ripped the shot top corner on the goalie. They don't went in. - I got two! It was amazing. - No goalie deflection, no lucky bounce, just a solid skill shot. - There was just sort of this moment of just laughter. Laughter from the players being waited to be interviewed. Laughter from the media downstairs. Just unbridled joy in watching it all happen. - I was just like, is this even happening? Like it started to just be like, it's like I could physically see the smile on his face from up on the stands. - The guys on the ice jumped on me. They were like, holy cows, it's unbelievable. - The final chapter of the John Scott story, at least as it pertains to the All Star game, is this really beautiful thing. And so there's this scene in Star Trek 2, "The Wrath of Khan." - Got it, I'm just gonna get us out of here. - That's possible to be ice. - Where it looks like the Enterprise is gonna get away, having defeated Khan. But Khan, it's still alive. - The game's not over. - And he's gonna try to trigger the Doomsday device on his ship to kill everybody. And so as the Enterprise is flying away, you see a bloodied Khan say, "From hell's heart, I stab at thee." - Hell's heart, I stab at thee. - For hate's sake, I spit my last death at thee. - And I thought of that scene when the voting for most valuable player at the All Star game starts. - To explain, at the end of the game, there's one final bit of fan voting. Fans were gonna choose the MVP of the NHL All Star game. Most valuable player. And the fans in the arena and watching on TV, they would text the name of the person they want to a number or they would go on Twitter and use the special hashtag and type the person's name, any case. - They will be coming up shortly. - Right as the voting is about to begin, the NHL puts up a bunch of names of players on the jumbo track, says, "Here are your choices." - And John Scott's name was not listed among the three MVP candidates on the jumbo track. - Ladies and gentlemen, it is the next time to award the 2016 Honda NHL All Star MVP award as decided by you. - The fans saw that I wasn't on there and they went nuts. They started to boo loudly, visibly. You could feel it around the ring. I felt it was the last gas of all the people at the NHL that tried to keep John Scott out of the All Star game. It was their last chance to get 'em. - Like Khan trying to get Captain Kirk, that's what he was trying to say with the analogy. Anyway, what ended up happening is that during the voting, thousands of people wrote in their own choice. And when it was announced. - The 2016 Honda NHL All Star MVP scores two goals in the turn and wins as a right-in candidate, John Scott. - It's funny, I didn't hear it because on ice level, you don't hear what the speakers are playing because they point the speakers to the fans. So I didn't hear until somebody's like, "Hey, go and get your trophy." And I was like, "Oh, weird." - John skates out to the center of the ice, laughing, looking a little scared. - Holy shit, I was just like the MVP of the All Star game. - John Scott is with the air. - Thanks a lot, Scott. There's been all kinds of invasions for ya. And they're not stopping. What do you want to say first to the fans in Nashville? - Just thank you so much, you guys have just formed me away. I love this city, and thank you so much. - And in what was the teary-eyed Disney family sports film moment? - You're $1 million. How you playing it on spreadin' it around? It's gonna go 100% to me and then they're gonna take the rest of it all. - He was hoisted on to the shoulders of his teammates and paraded around like he was a Rudy. Greatest sports movie ever. - I wanted to go down by the ice so that the kids could see John and people were trying to help me down the stairs and like parting the seas so I could get down there. - My kids were down at the bench with my wife and it was so weird. Like it was literally like Disney wrote a script and it's like okay, now he kisses his wife. - He kissed me in her eyes locked and it was just we both were kind of like shaking your heads. Like we were both a little bit speechless. - Now he grabbed his kids. - He scooped them up. - And the cliche fashioned, I grabbed my kids and skated them around the ice. - It was like daddy's stink, you smell bad and like every time like I would just look at him and I'm like can you even believe us this happening? And it was no like I just can't. - And as they came off the ice there were crowds of people waiting to ask them questions to pictures with them. - But we had a flight the next morning at like 5 a.m. - He had to get back to the minor leagues. And before that they still had to have these babies. So they rushed home to give birth to the twins. - Four days after babies were born I went back to St. John's. - Oh my god. - Yeah. - I feel like that was really the beginning of the rest of our lives. - John finished out that season played one last NHL game and then retired. He and Danielle live with their five girls in Traverse City, Michigan. But the legacy of his all star appearance lives on in two ways. First, the day after the game it was announced that John Scott's helmet, the helmet he wore during the game, would be flown to Toronto where we put on display at the hockey hall of fame. But the other thing that happened was just in time for the next year's all star game, the NHL created a new rule known as the John Scott rule, which states that any player who is voted to be a captain in the all star game then gets demoted to the minor leagues will be disqualified. Will not be allowed to play, effectively ensuring that never again will the fans have quite the power to overthrow the system and vote in a John Scott. - Reporter Lots of Nasser, this episode was produced by Mr. Matt Kielte and Fact Checked by Diane Kelly. - Also, if you want to hear more from John Scott and of course he has a podcast, it's called "Dropping the Gloves," available wherever you get podcasts or lose your gloves. - And in this episode there will be a lot of original music from John Dryden, the O.C.'s, weed eater and Bungzilla. - And last, special thanks to Morgan Springer, Faisal Camisa, and Ben Hankinson. - And. - And. - I think that's it. - That's it. - That's what we got to do today. - Yeah, let's get out of here. - Okay. - I'm Chad Abumarani. - I'm Robert Crowe, which. - Thanks for listening. - Welcome. - To play the message, press two, start of message. - Hi, I'm Frischker, and I'm from Ubicity, California, and here are the staff credits. Rachel Ab is hosted by Lulu Miller and the TIFF Nasser. Soren Wheeler is our executive editor. Sarah Sandback is our executive director. Our managing editor is Pat Walters. Dylan Keefe is our director of sound design. Our staff includes Jeremy Bluev, W. Harry Fortuna, David Kable, Maria Paz Kataris, Sindhu Nyanasambadam, Matt Kielty, Mona Madgavkar, Annie McEwan, Alex Nisen, Sarah Kari, Anisa Witsa, Aryan, Whack, Molly Webster, and just. with help from Rebecca Rand. Our fact checkers are Diane Kelly, Emily Krieger, and Natalie Middleton. [MUSIC]