The Problem with Erika Kirk | Baron Coleman

Shaq here. What's it like to buy a car from Carvana 100% online and get it delivered to your door? Let me tell you. Your car is here, Mr. Shaq. Thank you, Mr. Carvana guy. Can't wait to take it for a spin. Only the best for you, Mr. Shaq. Hey, have you always been so big, tall, and handsome? Not always. I was 6'10 once. Seven days delivered or returned, Mr. Shaq? Not that I would. You never do. No, I never do. So buy your car today on Carvana. Delivery fees may apply. See our seven day return policy at Carvana.com. Hey guys, if you're not following me on Spotify, please hit that follow button and leave a five-star review. They're both a huge, huge help. Thank you. That was weird right from the jump to me. I talked with you about this on the phone, but I'll never forget when, so he died on a Wednesday and then Friday morning, like we said, that was when they said Tyler Robinson had been arrested. And then I had a wedding to go to on Saturday. That was like six hours away. So I was going to get up early and drive there. So Friday night, I'm sitting in here. I'm working. And I see something on Twitter that his wife, Erica, is going to come out and give a statement. So I'm like, okay. So I pull up the live stream on YouTube. And I just remember seeing her walk in. And the only thing I felt was guilt because right away, that thing in my gut that goes, what the fuck? Something ain't right here. This ain't real. I've never had that thought in a situation like this before. It was blinking on a Twitter. I was like, what the fuck? I'm not 12. And I'm watching this and I'm like, and you know, everyone's, I'm going to Twitter and everyone's like praising her. And it was like a mass like campaign of people being like, oh my God, bravest woman ever. And I remember shutting the computer afterwards and like just being quiet. And I'm like, that's an impure thought. So mean. This is a grieving widow. Don't think that. But then I'm driving to the wedding the next day and I'm thinking about it in the car. I could not get it out of my head. And so Sunday morning, driving back from the wedding, back home, up here, I call up my buddy, Danny Jones. And it was like, the two of us were like coming out of the closet. Cause I'm like, Hey man, you know, we talk like every day. Okay. What's going on? I'm like, you watch that thing the other night? What thing? Oh, the thing with what? I'm like, yeah. What, what do you think? And he's like, bro, it was so weird. I'm like, oh my God, it was so weird to me too. I was so, oh my God. I felt like I couldn't tell anyone about this. Like, dude, something's off. And he's like, even my wife said it. And you know, women pick up on that shit real good. They know that shit. And we were just talking about it and I'm like, what is that? And you know, still the narrative was you'd go on social media and most people were like, oh, she's so brave. And then you get the WWE wedding with the Vicks and the fucking, you know, no ugly crying. Yeah. I know people grieve weird, but like at what point was it the WWE wedding or funeral? I'm sorry. Was it before that? Was it after that? At what point did you start saying to yourself, wait a minute, something ain't right there. Yeah. So it wasn't that for me. I mean, I, I watched it. I watched the speech and looking back at it, it sends all kinds of crazy alarm bells off, but at the time, you know, whatever. And actually the guy I was talking to when we were first learning about it in real time and the pictures were coming out, the videos were coming out. Um, he called me back. I want to say Monday or Tuesday. So what was that? Like the 15th, maybe? Something like that. Uh, it was a day or two before she was announced that she was going to be the, the, the person. And he said, Hey, I've got some information out of TPUSA. I know who they're going to put in Charlie's place. Cause we had talked about the day he died. We talked about who would take over TPUSA is just, even if it's just a placeholder. And he had mentioned Tyler Boyer. He had mentioned Benny Johnson. He had mentioned, um, Justin Strife, the COO, you know, he'd just been appointed to this new executive role. Why not just put him in there for a little while? Um, and then he had mentioned Erica Kirk and I was like, who the hell is that? Like, who is Erica Kirk? You know, I didn't know who Charlie's wife was. And, um, and then I saw her give that speech. And then he called me back a couple of days later. He's like, they're going to give it to Erica. And I was like, why? And he was like, I, I was like, you know what? I actually probably still have that text. Um, I think the initial part of the conversation was my text. He said, um, I, I was like, well, you know what? I think it's the right thing to do in the short run. I viewed Tyler Boyer as a, as an opportunist and, and kind of shady. Uh, Benny Johnson, I thought was like a total disaster. And, you know, TPSA at the time, even if you didn't like Charlie, it had value. Um, it, it had the ability to turn voters out for, um, for conservative causes, Republican candidates at the college level. It just did. Um, and you know, some of the states where, you know, are decided by 500 votes or a thousand votes or 10,000 votes turned out a couple of college campuses might make the difference. Um, I don't, I don't, I don't think he's the reason Trump won either election. People say that a lot and he's credited with that, but I'm not sure that's true, but, but some of the states get pretty tight and turning out a bunch of college kids could be helpful. Um, and so I thought, okay, yeah, Erica's probably not bad. She didn't do a terrible job in that speech or whatever. Um, but before the Memorial, uh, I had a friend who was going to go to the Memorial and, and backed out and decided not to. He's like, this is too weird. Something way too weird is going on with this. Um, this is, I don't feel comfortable with it. Already booked a plane, already booked a hotel room and just said, no, I'm not going. Um, and so there, there, there was already this weirdness that was going around in advance of, of the big shebang, uh, the WWE, what do you call it? WWE wedding funeral, funeral, whatever. It felt like a wedding. Uh, it did. I mean, she wore white dress like it too. She wore white. Um, but yeah, I mean, I, I think I, I look back and say, Hey, let's, let's assume this was a, an operation to kill Charlie and everyone was in on it. Like everyone Charlie knew was in on it. They've done absolutely everything wrong to get away with it. Absolutely everything. Uh, starting with bringing Erica out, like she's been a disaster. Um, you know, as you, as you dig into her past, as you uncover her prior statements, as you look into, uh, inconsistencies and stories she tells, uh, on down to how they met. I mean, frankly, Charlie was in on that inconsistency as well. So, um, what was it? They weren't a customs line in Israel or something. Well, that's, that's when she says she first saw him. Um, but you know, they, there's this story that, that their first date was, uh, at Bob's burgers in New York city. And that, you know, Charlie slid into her DMS and very slyly invited her to a job interview and then turned it into a date and then, and said, I want to date you. I don't want to hire you. So this is like a cute fairy tale story. Um, I think it's probably mildly illegal by HR standards, but I was going to say, it seems like a cross line, but we'll let him have it. We'll let him have it. He didn't hire her, I guess. So yeah, he didn't. So maybe, maybe he got away with it. Um, but then Tyler Boyer is seen on a podcast saying, no, no, no, no. They went on a date before when she was here in August, the month before that, or two months before that. And, and, you know, I was hyping Charlie up for the date. They went to a gym together. And so, I mean, like everything about everything she says falls apart under the slightest bit of scrutiny. And she's just strange. I mean, even if she's an innocent grieving widow, she's the strangest innocent grieving widow of all time. So if you're trying not to draw scrutiny to the situation, running her out there is the worst thing you can do. Had they just put her away for like even a year, you know, Hey, we've decided we're going to let Erica Kirk run this thing. She's going to be the CEO, but we're giving her the year on a sabbatical to spend with her family. She'll be in charge. She'll be overseeing everything, but she has expected to keep no office hours. She's going to do no events. She's going to go and grieve. Um, and Justin Strife is going to run the place in the meantime, or Tyler Boyer is going to run the place in the meantime. I don't think there would be a lot of scrutiny on this case. I think a lot of the scrutiny comes from the feeling you had that September 12th, the feeling, um, that you had that September 12th, that you had that September 12th, the feeling, uh, your friend had that September 12th, the feeling your friend's wife had that September 12th, the feeling a lot of us had by the end of the, the WWE funeral. It was just too weird. And then by the time she's shown up at events, tossing out merch, coming out to fireworks. And I mean, it's, it's everything went wrong. And then it's like they realize, Oh, well, well, this version of Erica Kirk's not working. So let's, let's, let's over correct and let's go to, she's only going to wear black. Now, whenever she's seen in public, she's going to wear black except the time she's in her little Bo Peep outfit. Then we're going to, then she's going to be little Bo Peep. If she's in Arkansas, like who is she? No one dresses that you see how I'm dressed. I wear hoodies. That's what I wear. Um, I wear hoodies and t-shirts. If you catch me in a little Bo Peep outfit, something's gone terribly wrong. I'm not, I'm not being myself. So I think there's, um, I think, I think what you perceived, maybe other people took longer to perceive, but I think it's, it's sort of, yeah. And, and like you said, it's, it's the optics of it too, that you just, from a PR perspective, which shouldn't be what this is about, by the way, it should be about an investigation trying to get to the truth here, but just at the top layer of PR, the fact that people around TP USA presumably couldn't see that this was, she just made it worse every time she went out to the point that she was still given, you know, live speech. And I think that's, I think that's on his show that's somehow still named after him, even though he's dead, you know, in like April and May. I'm like, guys, it's been seven months, the polling's in. You know, this is a Jeb Bush. - It's not working. - It's done. - This is Jeb Bush? please clap right yeah one of if not the most common dms i get on instagram are many of you asking me what my favorite books are well today's your lucky day because if you use the link in my description below to join my newsletter i'm going to give you my top 10 book recommendations right now also if you'd like to join my clipping community for a chance to make money producing content from the show you can do so via the discord link in my description below and finally you can join my patreon for early uncensored releases of the full episodes via the patreon link in my description below as always please take one second to hit that subscribe button if you haven't already i really appreciate that also the like button's a big help and you can join my newsletter via the link in the description it's it's got to be you know i i didn't i haven't covered this case a ton on the show we we talked about it probably about three times before other than we were live on air when when it happened obviously we were like all stunned i was with nade and chris from the religion business when that happened september 10th but you know i didn't do like full podcasts on it and then a couple things happened my my guy alessi has been with me forever was up in town he lives down in florida now and and he came up here so we recorded one on his podcast when he was here and he asked me about a little bit and we talked about in some of those clips especially the ones with erica went a little viral where i gave some opinion then i had clint russell in here as well and we talked about it for about 15 minutes but until i had joseph scott morgan in here to like just break down the forensic side of it we hadn't talked about it in depth we hadn't talked about it in depth but you have you've done 150 plus episodes on this at this point and you know you were talking about this right away so you know what was it like in in october you know to be raising those kinds of questions even about someone who's like a grieving widow and all that at a time where like you know a lot of people might take that the wrong way even if that is like what we are clearly feel many of us were clearly feeling and seeing was that a little nerve-wracking to talk about it that way i didn't talk about her i didn't i gave her the benefit of the doubt um for months and what changed the book tour uh in december it was so bizarre so weird um the interview with barry weiss uh the fox and friends appearance um every i watched all of it and every single appearance she did that week i think it was like december 10th to 15th something like that it was mid it was mid-december um every single appearance she did that week was so bananas that i thought i've gotta i i would fight my listeners because i at the end of my show i'll do q a and i'll just pull up questions and i you know depend on how late i want to stay up but sometimes i'll do two hours of just q a with people just boop boop boop questions questions questions um and i was fielding questions on a daily basis at the time erica's too weird you're being too nice she's not a grieving widow she killed him and i was like guys you can't say that and i was like i've never lost my spouse my spouse is very much alive we've been married 25 years everything's fine you know um that i don't know what i would be like if if she was suddenly murdered the next day i have no idea how i'd react maybe i would be weird um maybe i would act strangely i'm very um very much not a public crier um i've i've gotten sad a few times in public and i'm the most awkward sad public person you've ever seen i hate it i'm trying to stop it at the same time and i just don't like it um it's a very vulnerable position and i'm not going to if you don't like feeling vulnerable you don't like being emotional in public and you know i kind of looked at her through those eyes maybe she's just very vulnerable she's had a vulnerable childhood she had vulnerable relationships she not very confident in in her emotions she doesn't know how to handle them so she acts weird i really this was not me just playing the game this was not me just talking points i genuinely thought she was acting weird but i genuinely didn't know what to make of it and was unwilling to comment on it and then the book tour happened and i thought no this there's something wrong here um particularly the barry weiss interview i mean that that was that was so performative to me so strange um the the love for our greatest ally and and and i mean it was like so over the top and i thought no there's something here this this is not right i did i still at the time would not come out and say and i don't believe i've ever said she killed charlie kirk or she planned to kill charlie kirk or she planned to kill kill charlie kirk or she was in on it but i've have allowed my mind to speculate and what does it speculate well i mean it speculates that that she doesn't have a very good alibi for where she was uh on september 8th and 9th it speculates that she doesn't frankly have a very good alibi for where she was on september 10th um where did she say she was again she said she was at a on september 10th yeah i think she's i think her current story is or story maybe has not changed she was at a clinic with her mom um she was at a clinic with her mom and she was at a clinic with was watching the live stream which is unusual because that live stream supposedly was not something they typically did that was something new they were doing that day um and tarrell farnsworth told candace owens that they were live streaming quote back to the ops in arizona that they were trying something new um and the fact that she's at a clinic with her very ill mother and i i do believe her mother's very ill uh the fact that she was at a clinic with her very ill mother but she's watching the live stream of her husband do something he's done what a thousand times right like why why are you watching that one that day i mean you know utah valley university fine university not knocking it it's not harvard um it's not you know it's not uh ohio state it's not ucla it's not one of the bigger super high profile universities in the country it's it's a it's a good school in the heart of utah that has some great students and professors i'm sure um but not you know if you're going on a college tour and you're talking on all the college tours 100 college campuses a year or whatever he was doing utah valley university is not one that would stand out and say oh my gosh this is the one i've got to watch live as it happens and so she says she's watching it and she's watching him throw out hats so obviously they're live streaming the hat throwing so who was live streaming the hat throwing because all the other cameras were just focused on charlie they were just set up on charlie um so where he's going to be sitting yeah the three team not when he's out standing yeah so so whose camera is she watching whose camera's fixed on him he's throwing out hats then she says she puts her phone face down because she's with her mom and then she said mikey called a few seconds later after it happened mikey mccoy mikey mccoy the um charlie's chief of staff uh and and i think a pretty close family friend of theirs and um and and you know that's a that's a that's a good story but is that the bobs burger story you know did they actually go on a date in scottsdale before they went to bobs burgers did they you know that's a it's a pretty cool story but did did you actually graduate summa cum laude you know from with a double degree from wherever uh arizona state uh that's a pretty cool story but was that really only your second pageant or was it your sixth the problem with erica is it's tough to believe her stories because so many of her stories don't hold up under scrutiny that's right and so you know if were you on that day you saying i was with my mom is not very compelling because you say a lot of things that that when you scrutinize them don't really hold up one of the things i would do if i was her pr person is i would i would get i would get a hold of everything she's ever said publicly from the from the time she was 16 doing beauty pageants until yesterday and i would somehow whether you feed it into chat gpt or uh whether you just create a spreadsheet or just memorize it i would figure out what your story is and i would make sure you either never address anything on that story ever again or you clarify it yeah um i would also if i was tp usa call everybody into a conference room and say the next person that lies is fired the next person who tells a story that's inconsistent is fired like we have a massive credibility gap it's starting at the top but it's bleeding through everybody andrew your twitter feed is a disaster it is so easily broken down and it's not going to work it's going to be a disaster it's going to be a disaster disprovable uh on on many occasions so let's stop this let's stop just winging it let's get some discipline let's get some messaging um and let's stick to it and if you if it's not on the sheet you don't know if they ask where you were on this day and it's not on the sheet i don't know i'll check my calendar and get back to you uh because we're only talking about what's on this sheet from now on um but that's that's supposedly where she was on september 10th um and i don't know that i believe it d have you had i presume people from tp usa reach out to you behind the scenes yes lots lots of them like high up people as well i take it what's without revealing specifics of stuff you want to keep private like what's the nature of that shut the up or like hey we want to write your path here you actually have this wrong we could help you out with that like what are they what are the types of things they're saying to you i've been given a lot of corrections um where i've speculated on things and they say here's what actually happened um and i've subtly made those corrections without burning a source got it um i've had uh so meaning you had maybe sources that were around tp usa or in it that maybe told you something that then wasn't true verifiably and you're like okay so i don't want to burn them but well or i had said something uh publicly uh on a podcast and somebody said well this is you didn't quite get it right here's what really happened and then then I can subtly make that change over the next few weeks one really realizing that I've talked to someone. Um, so that's happened a few times. Um, and I've, I've had good contact with a couple of particular people who, um, who have given me the temperature of what it's really like in there right now. What's it like in there right now? Um, she's, she's not super supported, um, from, from some of the top people, including people that maybe are putting on a face publicly. Oh yeah. Yeah. Um, that's what I'm told. I can only, I can, the information is only as good as people tell me, but, um, not super supported, not really running things. Um, it's kind of the, you know, you guys keep saying she's running it into the ground. She's not running much of anything. Um, and that's, you know, that's, that's the two big things. I mean, I've, I've gotten specific piece of information I'm not gonna talk about, but yeah. But that's sort of the, that's sort of the general consensus that I keep getting. Got it. When he, when he was shot, obviously we've seen all the video after that. We use the word shot very loosely there. Yeah. Loosely there. But you know, when, when he was, when he was hit and went down and everyone sees the blood come out and then you see the security team converge, they obviously ended up taking him, carrying his body back to the truck. There was no ambulance near there, I guess, at the time. So they take him to the truck and what was it, five guys in the car with him? Yeah. Okay. What are some of the things there that you've taken issue with, as far as what's been reported about what happened with his body just going from the point of attack to the car, to the hospital? You know, I, I can't second guess a security team, um, and say what I would have done differently because I've never worked personal security. I've never been trained for it. I don't know all the things that go into it. Um, you know, it's easier to hire someone to do it than try to figure it out yourself. Um, it's, but when you look at it, just based on their statements, there are a lot of things I think probably went wrong from the beginning. For example, we talked about the roofs. I think three or four people from TPSA have been on record saying that they were concerned about the roofs. Well, if you're concerned about the roofs, you have two options. Well, three really, they took the third option and it didn't work out. Uh, the first two options though, could have kept them alive. Number one is you either solve the roof problem by putting your own people on the roofs, or you put somebody at a high position that has roof oversight. Like I've done big events. I've been at big events, um, bigger events than that, frankly, you know, tens or hundreds of thousands of people. And I know the security protocol that we were told, you know, Hey, you'll have something in your ear. If you hear a certain word, that's stage clear. Everyone's gone shows over folks, you know, sorry, you will not be getting a refund. Goodbye. Um, why, why wasn't that in place? Why didn't they have somebody at the highest point? If they're worried about the roofs, figure out which roof is the highest and stick somebody up there. And the second you see somebody in all black climbing on a roof, whatever the code word is, purple, purple, purple, purple, purple shows over folks. Charlie's gone. Sorry. Sorry to end at eight minutes into the program, but you know, he's in salt lake city before anyone knows what happened. Um, you know, if you're, if you're not going to do that, then, then you have to conduct the entire thing from a different security posture. In my opinion, you have to, you have to, uh, if you're not going to have somebody at high point watching the roofs, you're not going to have somebody stationed on the roofs. You have to have security run in mind with the roofs are a primary concern. So maybe you're watching roofs from the ground. Maybe you have somebody stationed in a different place. Maybe you move the tent. Maybe you delay the event an hour to, to reconvene, um, from a slightly different angle or a slightly different location. I don't know, but I know the third option is the one they chose. And it's what it was. Hey, Charlie, we don't like the looks of these roofs. These rooms look dangerous. You look like you're at risk here, sit here, do your show here. We'll make sure nobody's overlooking the roofs. We'll make sure nobody's on the roofs. Just have a seat here, sir. You'll be fine. Now that's, that's, that's not it. I mean, I, I, I've said this many times on my show, if I'm hiring security people, I'd rather have somebody smart than beefy. You know, the fact that you can roll around and shoot a gun while you're rolling is not as impressive to me as watching around as I'm walking down the street. Uh, not as impressive as having situational awareness and enough of an IQ that you can detect, Hey, something's not right. I don't feel good. Let's, let's go a different direction. Let's get out of here. Um, so his IQ is pretty good, man. He's a very smart guy. Struck me that way. We IQ people, we IQ test people. Um, no, but I mean, that's, that's more of a concern to me, you know, because once the shooting starts, you've lost, that's right. You know, the game's over. Um, I, I tell people this with a lawyer all the time. Don't get sued. Once you get sued, you've already lost. I don't care if you win, you've lost. It's gonna cost you a lot of money. It's very inconvenient. Warriors win. Yeah. Um, there with, with free speech and journalism, there are some protections, uh, because you can always, you know, like anti-slap statutes, for example, I'm sure you're familiar with, with what you do. Um, but, but I, I think from a, of a pre-show posture, it seems to me evident on its face that there was a failure. Um, but that's not me coming and saying, Brian Harpole's group failed Charlie and got him killed. That's not the point. My point is, as we're second guessing and looking, the next time somebody does an event and someone doesn't feel comfortable with the roofs, let's, let's evaluate the roofs. Let's, let's think about it. And let's, let's evaluate whether we should do the show at all, or should we put people in different places? The excuse they keep giving that, oh, we only have permission to be in this area right here. Well, Tyler Robinson didn't have permission to get on the low seat center roof either, but he did. That's their story. So if he doesn't have permission to get up there yet somehow manages to, you got 12 or 13 people with you and you can't put one person on the highest point in the facility that's overlooking the tent, the low seat center would have been a pretty good place. You'd have had operational oversight over the entire field. Well, that sounds like a great place to be. Right. Um, when did this, this particular security team though, cause again, this was a new, this was a new tour he was going on. This was the first one. They put this team together shortly before that, right? It was, those guys hadn't all worked together for Charlie Kirk prior to this point, or am I misremembering that? I think the base of the team had worked for Charlie Kirk for a while. But not every single guy on the team together working for him. I don't, I don't know whether we can say they've never worked for him, but I know that they hadn't spent years working for him. I think we can safely say that. Got it. All right. So you talked about the 30-06 and some of the issues with, you know, wondering how the hell that bullet could have been stopped and all that. And you mentioned, what was the gentleman's name again, who initially had the shot from another? Chris Martinson. Chris Martinson. So you mentioned his theory. What do you like, bad visual to give, but come to your head. What do you think actually killed him? I don't know. You don't know. I don't know. I don't think it was a gunshot. I don't necessarily think it was a single modality. I think it could have been multiple things taking place at once. What do you mean by that? Well, I mean, if you're going to, if you've made an operational decision to kill Charlie Kirk, are you going to have the entire operation rest on a single point of failure? In other words, are we going to put a sniper on the roof and hope he kills him? You know, people get shot point blank in the head and live. If the goal is to kill him. That's right. You want him dead. Like you do not want him walking out of there. And so maybe you, maybe you have built in redundancy, you know, when you get on an airplane, if there's no, there's no critical function that, that rests on a single point of failure. There's, there's backup usually, usually triplicate backup. That's why planes don't fall out of the sky very often. Cars are different. Cars have single points of failure, but you just pull over to the side of the road. You can't pull the plane over to the side of the road. You know, it's going to fall out of the sky from 35,000 feet. So most critical functions are, are redundant. And I think in this situation, you probably have redundancy. And so it's undeniable to me that something moved his, something caused his shirt to move in a very unnatural way. That's inconsistent with a bullet. The road microphone, actually travel with them. I have them with me. The road microphone goes from his right collar all the way towards the middle of his neck. Um, those have mass, they're not easy to move, uh, his necklace, which is hanging down. Wait, they have what? I'm sorry. They have mass. I mean, they're, they're, they're not, they're not styrofoam. Mass, like M-A-S-S? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, they, they have, they have substance. They're not, they're not the heaviest things in the world, but they're not the lightest things in the world to get one, to move at that pace in two frames of a camera. You know, you're talking a 30th of a second, a 15th of a second to move from your right collarbone to the middle of your neck in, in a 15th of a second or 30th of a second. That's very, very fast. Something caused that. Um, did it explode? Did something eject out of it? I don't know. Uh, was it damaged? Did it, did it remain whole? I don't know. Um, it would be easy to prove it remained whole. Just, you know, those, those, those record on a 32 bit waveform, just release it, you know, or show us that it kept recording. I think you could fake it, but at least you could try to show that it didn't explode. Um, so his microphone moved, his necklace, that the charm was hanging down in the pictures down below his sternum, like right below his xiphoid process right there. Um, it shot up towards his neck at, basically the speed of light. I mean, it was so fast. What caused that? That's not a gunshot wound to the neck. Necklaces don't jump that high when you're struck in the neck. There are some angles that look like the necklace on the back of his neck, the chain on the back of his neck goes straight back off his neck, or at least his shirt goes straight back off of his neck. And you can still see the neck and I don't see a hole. So if the gunshot wound to the neck is supposedly causing all this stuff, why is this happening before a hole appears in his neck? That's possible. The hole was super small, but it didn't look super small with that much blood coming out of it. So there's, there's just a lot of problems with the gunshot narrative that I default to the fact that there's something that was acting on his, on his body. There was some force that was acting on his body. Whether that force came from the microphone, from the necklace, whether it was some high-tech force that we don't even know exists, some sort of, you know, for lack of a better word, like an EMP or something that blasted at him all at once. I really don't know the answer to that. Is there a way that whether it's in like Chris Martinson's lane of, of a second, an actual second shooter down there, different gun, is there a way that if someone's shooting from much closer than 138 yards, as it was alleged where Tyler Robinson shot that, you know, the kinetic energy or types of things that could happen could explain the movement of the mic? The shirt of the, of the chain in the back and all that in a more satisfying way than what they say happened from 138 yards away. I think the closer you are, the more force the 30 caliber round arrives with, the more likely it is to blow out the back of his neck. So I'm, I'm not entirely satisfied with that, but I think, you know, I don't think he was shot with a bullet. If he was, it was a redundancy because the injuries are, in my opinion, and the people I've talked to, I've talked to several medical professionals last couple of days since the, since the prosecution filed their motion that included a few lines from the medical exam. Um, they, oh, they filed it. Yeah. I mean, there, there's injuries from the top of his heart to the top of his head. Um, it's, it's really difficult for me to accept that all of that took place from a single gunshot wound. So injuries meaning like internal bleeding, bruises every day, like a litany of things. Hemorrhaging. Um, I, I'm not a doctor and they were big words and I had to look up every word just to understand what they were saying. Uh, but I mean, even like the parietal lobe of his brain above it was damaged. I mean, you're talking like two feet worth of, of injuries. Um, it's, it, it, it's something that's just to me unprecedented. Like I, I looked and looked for examples of those types of injuries from gunshot wounds. You can't find the collection of them in any single gunshot wound to the neck that I could find. I did not look at every medical exam ever conducted. In history, but now it'd be interesting. It's way above my pay grade. Yeah. Way above mine as well. That's interesting that it's that it's a tremendous amount of, uh, of, of, um, of damage. The, the most telling thing that they filed in their motion was that he, his C2 to C6 was obliterated. Is that what they wrote? Yeah. The left side. So the side where the wound was, uh, from C2, which is way up here to C6, which is down here, the left side of all those vertebrae were completely obliterated. Obliterated. And his spinal cord was traumatically absent in that range. Meaning there was no connection from his brain to his body at all. So even beyond death, when he was hit, he was a quadriplegic. Am I hearing that right? Or did I totally fuck that up? Yes. According to the medical exam. Okay. But then now go back and watch the video and I can't play the video on YouTube. Neither can you because YouTube doesn't like that video. But if you go back and watch the video, after this all happens, after his C2 to C6 spinal cord is completely gone, traumatically absent, completely transected. He fences. Do what? He fences, right? Yeah. He, he, he clenches both fists. He flexes his elbows, his knees stay out. He stays erect. His head stays up. And there's no way, again, way above my pay grade. There's no medical explanation for that being physically possible. No, I talked to a neurosurgeon yesterday after that came out or two days ago, whenever it was. I talked to, uh, a professor of that, that I can't remember what his title was, but it was long. Um, and I had them go over this with me line by line and both of them agreed. And the professor started giving me citations to PubMed papers that demonstrate that it's impossible that once you lose that, once it transects, you have about one 10th of a second before everything goes flaccid. And, and, and the way he described it was, he said, I'm not saying flaccid, like he would have dropped the microphone. I'm saying he would have lost all muscle tone from the neck down. Like every muscle would have turned into just goo. It would have just completely, his knees would have collapsed. He would have fallen immediately off the chair. His head would have immediately fallen over. He would have, he wouldn't have held onto the microphone and then slowly let it go. Like we watched the video together. Yeah. He wouldn't have slowly let go of the microphone. Everything would have collapsed. Gravity would have taken over to his body in instantly. Like he said, like a 10th to a 10th and a half of a second is all you have left. Once those electrical charges are gone, the body's done. It's no longer receiving any input whatsoever from the brain. So I look at that and I say, okay, well, something obviously was still acting on his body. I'd speculated in October because of, because of a medical professional who contacted me. And, and he said at the time that it looked more like electrocution than a gunshot to him because, yeah, he said, because, because of the flexion. And this was after the Andrew Colvette tweet is what prompted him to, to reach out because he said, Hey, if, if he had that much damage to his vertebrae, his spinal cord likely was transected and he wouldn't have been holding on to anything. Something had to be powering his nervous system. That's not his brain. And the only thing he was holding onto that had power was the microphone. He said, have you looked into the fact that the microphone may have lit him up? And so I started looking up, um, video of singers who would touch those same SM58, Shure microphones. And they did the, they did a lot of the same stuff that, you know, and fall back to the, to the stage. Um, so I don't know. I really don't know what it was. Um, but I I'm confident 99.9% confident. It was not a 30 out six to the neck that that would not produce in my opinion. And I'm not a doctor, but I have talked to them and they're confident as well. It wouldn't produce those damages. Like something else was going on. Um, it's possible he was struck in the neck other than a 30 out six. Um, it's possible he was electrocuted. It's possible something happened to the road microphone. It's possible something else was strapped to his body that we don't even know was strapped to his body because they were trying something new and streaming back to the ops in, in Arizona. Um, but, but to me, the 30 out six narrative died with that filing. Uh, keep in mind when a medical examiner does the exam, they're not watching the video. They're just describing what they see, you know, and they might very well have seen that damage, but they didn't know he was still flexing and had this apparent decorticate posture after his C2 to C6 was traumatically absent. So, you know, to answer the question, how did he die? I don't know. Um, would you make it the bullet? Do we have a picture of that? Do you have the bullet they released at the preliminary hearing where they put out, it was like a measuring stick because again, I do live in a country where they released, they talked about magic bullets. So yeah. This is not only a magic bullet, it's a missing bullet. Um, the, the lady who tested it for the ATF, the lady who testified about the testing for the ATF, um, read from a report where seven fragments were removed from Charlie's body. Seven fragments. Yeah. But she only received four in an envelope, in a manila envelope. She received four of the seven. I would think in a murder investigation, you would want, if you pull something out of his body, that would go along with the rest of the evidence. Where are the other three pieces? Are these the same four pieces that were pulled out of his body? I don't know. Um, it's possible the autopsy photos will, will show that yes, in fact, those were exactly what was pulled out of his body, but we also don't know the chain of custody of his body. Um, he wasn't taken by ambulance. He was surrounded by security people who didn't guard the roof. Um, so that's the casing. Yeah. The one that was at, sorry, I forgot to say the one that actually showed like the aftermath of it. They released the trial. You know, when we did solo number 23 after JSM, I think I put that link in that Google drive folder. That would have been like three weeks ago. So it should be there, but it shows it next to like an actual measurements. You can see like how the bullet allegedly changed and all that. But like, so do you think you would, you would use this word a few minutes ago? I want to make sure I understood this. You said there could have been something that was a redundancy. Yeah. Meaning like maybe a bullet was fired after he was already hit with something else. Well, so this would be an example of redundancy. I'm not saying this is it, but let's throw everything in together. Um, you've got, let's say he was the mic electrocuted him. He was shot in the neck. The road microphone exploded. They broke his neck under the table. They, you know, broke his neck under it. Well, what I'm saying is you, every theory out there is it could be pulled into this redundancy, you know? Um, in other words, he's walking in and he's not walking out. Right. We'll kill, you know, we'll Rasputin this guy all at once if we have to. have to um but once we did once we give the signal once we give the go-ahead which may or may not have been you know steel third uh you know i'm still amused by dan flood stepping forward and touching his right arm and everyone's like oh it's something he did all the time i'm like okay show me him doing that all the time that was such a weird bizarre uh and and probably the if it was a total coincidence it was the worst timing to step forward about 400 milliseconds before uh your guys killed that is one thing about this it's like if for some reason like the fed narrative were mostly right or whatever the number of things that were the worst possible coincidental timing forget chaos i know things are chaotic but like you couldn't have drawn it up any better yeah i mean you don't have an ambulance your security guy steps forward and does this you're you're uh you're you're resident theologian who just decided to show up is grabbing his hat you know you've got like the the number of number of terrible coincidences that would take place if this was just tyler robinson on the roof um it it would it would be an interesting uh discussion yeah now what so deep this has the measurement on it from the atf or whatever this is what they allegedly released this is where so we're going to be doing a podcast you and me later with joseph as well which would be cool to have youtube be able to go back and forth on stuff like this so we should probably kind of save this for some time but i'm not the guy but he still shouldn't be right there you come here you stand right here do not move from this spot yeah don't walk around don't pour water don't pour water on the surface please the crime scene i beg you well i'll proffer that the guy walking around talking to those two cops grabbed the chair set it up under the camera took the cameras down moved them set them on the table uh removed some object from it we believe it's the sd card that's his story removes something from the camera and then walks off is that does that fall below the standard and allow that to happen can i play that on a loop yeah that's i just wanted that on the record yeah that's there was something he was explaining with the measurement here and how that would have turned out that way but what you're seeing is essentially i from what my eye test can see that's like a mushroomed kind of bullet like it hit a wall and stopped well that's just the jacket that's not the bullet so that's right down there that is yeah that's the front and back of the same fragment that's a fragment of the jacket wow so the little pieces at the top those are little pieces of bullet up up there where it says 8a 6b well it's b through e or a little piece okay so that would be among the seven fragments that she's talking about yes the atf wouldn't okay all right that makes sense so what you're seeing at the bottom is the front and back of the same piece okay um and she described what was interesting to me about that was she described the measurement not not with precision but with a range she said the range was 0.286 or 287 something like that to 0.301 inches a 30 caliber round is called 30 caliber because it's in theory 0.30 inches so but a 30-06 is actually 0.308 inches um the bore diameter is 0.30 but the grooves inside the bore are 0.308 and so if you take a 308 measured round and you slip it through a bore that's 0.30 but the ridges are 0.308 you should in my opinion and from what i've been able to research have a jacket fragment that measures closer to 0.308 on the where the ridges are there's some compression as it goes through the bore but i'm not sure you'd lose all of it but that's obviously for people smarter than than i am what were the things in the five day preliminary hearing that stood out the most you that you felt were just didn't help matters uh well the the biggest inconsistency of the entire five days in my opinion they had video footage they showed that they alleged was tyler robinson coming back to try to retrieve the gun at 12 47 a.m so 12 hours later yeah roughly 12 hours later and they show a car that looks a lot like a dodge challenger and it's rolling up and this is recovered from doorbell cam footage from across the street they they show a little clip of it it's very muddy it's very blurry you can't see what's going on but you can see a door open you can see headlights and taillights but they they clipped it i mean they kept they just kept showing you a little piece of it a little piece of it a little piece of it and then the prosecution you know finishes their examination and then on cross the defense is like hey um the lady who took that she saw a bald man driving the car with three passengers right and the guy was like i don't know i don't know uh and she's like well that's the statement she gave right he's like well yeah she did do a statement where she said she thought she saw a bald man driving with three passengers sorry we forgot that one yeah okay that would have been good information on direct yeah that would have been really good information on direct you know when you're trying a case you're not only trying your strengths you're also looking at your weaknesses uh now granted this isn't a trial you don't have a trier effect there i mean judge kind of sits as a trier effect as a magistrate but but you you certainly are trying because of how public this is trying to capture the public's trust to me the prosecution has to have an explanation for that like why did she think that that might be a good time if you're going to introduce that footage that might be a good time to go ahead and bring her in and let her explain why she thinks she saw that maybe she has glaucoma maybe she hallucinates maybe she takes ambien maybe she you know has a history of mental illness maybe she wasn't wearing her glasses that night but why you know if you have a statement from somebody that says oh you're saying that tyler robinson's car that was actually driven by a bald man and he had three passengers in the car that was a huge problem in my opinion because it showed to me it showed the prosecution was dishonest they knew that existed and they did their direct examination and never mentioned it and i guess they thought the defense either wasn't going to see it or wasn't going to bring it up i don't know why they would think that um but that that to me is is evidence big evidence that the prosecution's hiding the ball on this on this case it's not a strange timeline thing there's a lot of strange timeline things in this case especially as it relates to tyler robinson like what the fact that he so you and i talked about this but i'm trying to think like what you said was off record with this i don't want to say anything wrong well don't risk it all right or clip it out all right i have a thought you and i'll talk about that after maybe i'll bring that up tomorrow so let me let me punt on that for a second but like you have the video of him that's more hd walking around in hallways around the building this wasn't a school he went to or anything so it's like that's interesting that he was there so we can at least place him like at the place and then the video of him that we referenced earlier that jack pozobiec claimed to see things that clearly he didn't see you know up on the rooftop is from far away and this is someone who at the time when you review that video because now there's i think it's the same one but it's more it's better rendered the one that candace put out you can see it closer and you can see a figure who does not appear to have a leap a a limp sorry a figure who is moving very quickly as a result does not appear to be physically hiding a gun in his pants as we had seen in some of the other videos as well and who then gets down into a position but we can't see him take out a gun or pull a trigger or anything like that he does a military crawl on the way there which would suggest he's extremely highly trained like he was in the military which this kid was not and then is able to get away quickly and run again without a limp off the building presumably with the gun and to me this was like a bit of a shocking video to see because to me it's like first of all question and i'd like to pose this to you do you think that's tyler robinson no okay let's start there so you don't think that's tyler robinson on the roof but you do but the video of him walking through the hallways that's him so where do you think i don't think that's him in the hallways either you don't think that's him in the hallways you know i i don't think you can tell and in fact lance twiggs when he was doing his 1102 statement via zoom for some reason and not in the courtroom or not with a court reporter is that that's strange to do it that way in a preliminary hearing yes okay yeah um i think so i mean i think it's highly unusual that you would introduce a zoom call as evidence in a in a preliminary hearing yeah it's very unusual to me um but they show those six pictures that they have of the alleged tyler robinson on campus and they said you know can you identify the person in there he's like well not 100 not based on those pictures and he's looking at all six of them all six pictures and his face is visible and everything else and he says well yeah i mean you know based on the clothes he he you know he's wearing jeans you know he's got those shoes uh he likes to wear hats he's wearing a hat here i've never seen him in that hat but he's wearing a hat yeah and the sunglasses yeah and then so you can in my opinion it's almost as if somebody's off screen going dude that's him you have to say it's him because he's like oh yeah and in those last two definitively i can say that's him but yeah exactly but he had already said that he couldn't identify him and he was already looking at those two pictures so what changed in that 30 seconds of hemming and hawing um it didn't it didn't leave a lot of confidence that that's Tyler Robinson it didn't leave a lot of confidence that Lance Twiggs thought it was Tyler Robinson do you think Tyler Robinson was on campus that day I think he was in Orem uh I don't know whether he was on campus I've not seen uh evidence that's convincing that he was on campus do you have and this may be like way outside the scope I'm just asking but do you know a reason why he would have been in Orem no I mean I I operate under the assumption that he was there to engage in some sort of criminal conspiracy whether that was to kill Charlie Kirk or cause some sort of mischief at an event or what but but I do think he was probably there as some sort of a group that he believed was going to pull off some sort of criminal activity uh that would put him in Orem whether or not his role was to ever be on campus I don't know so you I'm playing out a pure spec total hypothetical here but in that type of scenario could it be something where he and a group of people who may disagree with Charlie Kirk's beliefs were colluding to disrupt an event like that and perhaps because they're talking about that on digital spaces that could be picked up by other people who view that as a very advantageous cover to be able to do something a little a lot worse than that do you think something like that is a plausible scenario uh plausible sure um you're you're giving a lot of credit to these discord groups that they're not infiltrated with with bad actors on purpose oh sure that's another yeah absolutely and that they're not manipulating these groups that's right that they're not the ones making these comments and they're not the ones opening these x accounts saying oh something bad's gonna happen right um but yeah I mean it you know taking it in a very favorable light sure something like that could happen okay do you think based on the video again this was what Candace put out the other day but based on that video do you think that the person there if it wasn't Tyler Robinson is someone who whether it was a gun that we can't see very well that might be a different kind of gun or with some sort of trigger to do something else is the person who actually pulled off killing Charlie Kirk no I mean I I think the person on the roof was one of two things either it was another step of the way or it was another step of the way of redundancy uh meaning the person did have a gun but it wasn't a 30-06 because I don't see a 30-06 up there but has some sort of weapon up there that could that could kill Charlie Kirk if needed and let's say let's just assume the signal was Dan Flood stepping forward touching his arm I'm not Dan don't sue me I'm not saying that's a signal I'm just saying let's let's just assume pure speculation um but let's say that is a signal and he sees the signal and then a second goes by and nothing's happened yet now you shoot you know in other words you're the backup to the backup to the backup um or that guy was just a decoy they needed to see somebody on that roof because that was going to be the story and we had to capture him on video so you got to get up there you got to lay down in position you got to run off don't worry our camera's way back there no one's going to see what you're doing they're not going to see your face just jump up um you know I think the person on the roof was likely one of those two roles and not actually the one who did anything on that day now I started to make that timeline point a couple minutes ago but didn't want to go on that other thing we'll talk about after so I can make sure I know what I say but wasn't there also like with these discord messages that did look some of them highly suspect from the get-go to me but wasn't there something where some of them were allegedly sent after he allegedly had been arrested according to what the story is so that well yeah so there's there's a lot of debate on that um I was looking at the filings and I noticed in the story that there was a lot of in the defense's filing that they made along the way one of their filings they referenced a time stamp when Tyler invoked his fifth amendment right to silence but they didn't put a date on it it just said 6 25 p.m and so I thought what was 6 25 p.m where was that so I was looking for context clues in that statement and he made a comment about uh the lawyer's office that I want is closed for the night he said I'm looking for a lawyer here his name is xyz whatever his name was um and he's he's it looks to me like he's very clearly invoking his right to remain silent for the first time if you assume that 6 25 is accurate and I don't know why the defense would put the wrong time in there so I assume it's accurate you look and you say well there's really only two options when that conversation could have taken place it could have taken place on September 11th which is a Thursday which is the day he turned himself in or it could have taken place on September 12th which is a Friday which is the day after he turned himself in and even on the their the official narrative timeline that 6 25 p.m would be like 21 hours after he turned himself in and so knowing those two facts it has to be one of those two times 6 25 on Thursday or 6 25 on Friday go back and look at the context again I'm looking for a lawyer here named so-and-so well here would have been Washington County that's where he turned himself in because the lawyer he named was practicing in Washington County he wasn't practicing in Utah County he wasn't from Utah County that's four hours away why would he say I'm looking for a lawyer here then he says my parents are trying to get in touch with him his office is closed for the night closed for the night not the weekend if it's 6 30 on Friday do you say the office is closed for the night what lawyer opens up on Saturday morning the fact that he's saying my parents are trying to get in touch with him means that he had just spoken with his parents and knew they were trying to get in touch with him and that his office was closed for the night that's more consistent with a Thursday night where he had just spoken to his parents minutes before than it is Friday night where he hadn't spoken to his parents in 21 hours and has no idea what his parents have been doing for 21 hours maybe they did get in touch with a lawyer maybe they've already gotten him maybe maybe his office isn't still closed for the night we have no idea what's going on so I looked at all those context clues and I raised the possibility that that conversation actually took place on Thursday not Friday well if it took place on Thursday at 6 25 it took place an hour and a half before the discord messages went out at 7 57 and so that led me to believe it's possible those discord messages were fake they weren't from him at all and they're inconsistent with taking your right to remain silent you're going to invoke the right to remain silent to the sheriff but you're going to confess to anybody with a link to a discord chat forever that's going to be there forever yeah that's right anyone who ever gets that url can log in and see your confession but you don't want to confess but you want to invoke your right to remain silent and then go back to his text messages to Lance Twiggs I intended to take this to my grave okay well you're taking it to your grave you're talking to your alleged boyfriend about it and then you go and confess to a discord chat that you don't you've not even met all these people in there you don't even know who all these people are um yeah it's it's totally inconsistent so I looked at all that and I concluded that it very likely was a Thursday afternoon invocation of his fifth amendment right it's not a Friday afternoon invocation and if that's the case um do we have any other context clues well we didn't at the time but a few weeks later a couple months later maybe maybe a month or two later the defense file this prosecution rather files an exhibit list and on the exhibit list they list out by bait stamp number the exhibits they tend to offer one of those is Tyler Robinson in the Washington County Sheriff's Office on September 11th that's the same bait stamp number that was cited in that original 6 25 p.m time stamp so I look at that and say no brainer obviously that September 11th at 6 25 p.m this is a huge problem third time third context clue came during the preliminary hearing they wanted to show that his clothing when he turned himself in was consistent with what he was wearing on that day so they wanted to show him at the Washington County Sheriff's Office in the maroon t-shirt when they do they zoom it in so you don't get the time stamp on that security footage that was a big indication to me that that very well could have been that the fourth context clue is uh one of these press outfits in Utah I don't know I don't want to cite the one because I don't want to cite the wrong one but one of the press outfits in Utah wanted to get a copy of the footage of him turning himself in they wouldn't release it to him do you think they'll release that at trial is that I honestly don't know because turning yourself in is not part of the crime so they don't have to you could convict him without turning that in it's possible we'll never see that and then they lied to the press and said that they had deleted it because it extended beyond the retention the prosecution said that the Washington County Sheriff's Office said that and then the Washington County Sheriff miraculously resigns in March of this year under a cloud of suspected bad behavior and so you put I put all that together five six pieces of context clues some of which are really solid in my opinion like the base stamps number and I and I think some of those discord messages may have come after he turned himself in which raises suspicion on every that's right statement that he made about he did it have you spoken and if you can't talk about this no problem but have you spoken with any sources in or around or in some way connected to the knowledge of like the thinking of his family and where they stand on whether or not at this point whether or not they believe he actually did it yes uh they don't believe he did it would so is it fair to assume you're referring to like his mother and father don't believe that yeah um there's a there's a guy on x um I know him I believe him um I have personal knowledge that he spoken to the grandmother, and that's well-known. It was the grandfather's gun, right? Yes. That was the alleged thing. Okay, yeah. And he has spoken to the grandmother, and I've seen text messages between the family. They don't believe he did it. They deny that he confessed to them. They deny that he turned himself in because he was guilty. They don't think he did it. Did they think he did it at the time? No, they never thought he did it. They never thought it. And what's miraculous is that we get to the preliminary hearing. We've been told for 10 months by TPUSA people, by their spokespeople, by their hangers-on, their paid contributors. We've been told for 10 months that he confessed to his parents, and that's a key component of this. That's why we know he did it. He confessed to his parents. He turned himself in. We heard this for 10 solid months. We get to the preliminary hearing. They're not even on the witness list. Thank you guys for checking out this clip. If you haven't already subscribed, please subscribe and hit the like button on this video. It is a huge, huge help. And if you'd like to check out this clip's full podcast episode, that link is in the description below or right here. And finally, you can follow me on Instagram and X by using the links in my description below.