The Principles Of God’s Process (with Jabin Chavez)

I think the devil's always trying to convince who you're out of season. And he's trying to get you out of season. I'd rather be late in the will of God than early out of the will of God. There is a connection between being pleasing to the Lord and being entrusted with the power of the Spirit. And if you'll negotiate your walk with God, you'll negotiate it. Mm-hmm. Anything can be compromised if you'll compromise it. What's up everybody? Welcome to the leaders cut. And as you can see, we've got a guest today that I'm really excited to be sitting with. This is the first time today's actually the first time we've met. Yeah. I've respected him from afar for years. And we're going to get into some of that. And you're going to see, hopefully by now, you kind of understand anybody that I try and bring on. There's a certain way that they do what they do. And part of the reason I do that is because I believe there's a way our Heavenly Father wants us to do things. Now there are specific things to you that are different than they are for me. But there are principles that we see all throughout this book. And I'm just telling you, anytime I get around somebody who is endeavoring to live a God-pleasing life, just the second I meet him. And you can tell from afar, but Javan is definitely one of those people. Passers-in Las Vegas. Absolutely love me, some Vegas. You guys have a spa culture. We're no one's Scottsdale for spa. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But you guys, we do. I love me some. It's really, yeah, you know, it's changed over the last few years where it's not all gambling. Anymore, like there's a whole world now. Vegas, it's restaurants and spa. Golf shows now or the sphere, all that because the sports now, which is pretty. You are based on sports. Sports down. I can't believe that. That's good. I guess they're saying. Yeah. So it has, it isn't as, it's as crazy as you want it to be. It doesn't have to be. That's great. Well, let's pray and we'll jump right into it. Thank you, Lord. Thank you so much for this time. Thank you for Javan and all that you're doing through him. Ready to use them during this episode to speak your language that people would hear your heart and that every person who takes time to watch this episode, Lord, I pray they would see a new or greater way to do something your way. Holy Spirit, would you invade our time together today? Cut on our flesh anywhere. Our flesh is getting in the way of your spirit so that the Father can get more of what He wants in us and through us in Jesus' name. Amen. Amen. Why don't you give everybody a little bit of background and mention you're in Vegas, but how long you've been there? Yeah. So I'm going to give us the. So married, uh, this August, 2026 will be married 20 years. Wow. Congrats. That's going to be great. We're really excited about that. Going to get away for a while and love it. Hang out and that's going to be beautiful. We planted city light eight years ago in March of 2018. And it's been pretty incredible, portable, basically for the first seven years. And then, um, in May of 2025, moved into a permanent building that we built from the ground up, which is a miracle. That's a miracle. Total miracle. We're not. We're not smart enough to do that by any means. We're not only not smart enough. If we would have known how not smart we were, we wouldn't have done it. It was like, I think that's purely God. The Lord lets us be blind. Yeah, yeah. We, we, it was, but you want to talk about blind faith. It was, we thought, yeah, so that's a, that's a story we can talk about. Yeah. So, so planted the church eight years ago. It's been a real kind of miracle story. Um, and before that, I traveled and did worship and preach kind of that was kind of my thing. When did you start traveling? 2011. Okay. So then, yeah. So, and kind of was like a youth. 26. Ish. Yeah. I would have been 28, I think. Okay. We're trying to, we're trying to do the math now. 27. Yeah, maybe 26, 27. I'm trying to think. Um, yeah, I was caught on fast. Yeah, youth camps. Yeah. Youth conferences. And then I was, what, back in that day, it was kind of like, I was the youth speaker. And then I would stay over for the weekend and lead worship. I was kind of the thing at first, right? Somewhere in it, preaching kind of took over and just kind of had a shift to preaching. And then worship, you know, I still write music and involved in our worship music. But, yeah, I mean, like, the vast majority of people now don't even know I sing, you know, it's kind of a funny thing. Like, it's crazy. Yeah, yeah, you know, that it's not even a kind of part of my life in that publicly anyway. Right. Every once in a while, you're, you're Instagram not too long ago. Every once in a while, you break your little song. Somebody grabbed me the other day and they go, I saw your Instagram post and I go, oh, and he goes, is that just you like reminding your worship team? Like, he does. I was like, there was nothing, which is just spontaneous. I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I'll sing a little bit at church, you know, and we kind of create a moment in our service, where I can have a little time to flow. But preaching kind of took over and it really started with the word of the Lord. A name you may know Joel Stocks still. I don't, I know him. I don't know him well. But I was leading worship at a thing and he, and at that time, had no preaching really. And he walked up to me and he goes, you're a David. You know, it's kind of like, I agree. I've heard that, you know, like whatever. And he goes, David was a worshiper, but his nation knew him as a warrior. He was a worshiper, but his nation knew him as a king. And he said, but David was a worshiper. God knew him as the sweet Psalmist of Israel. And he said, if you will stay a worshiper, the nations will know you as a warrior, a preacher. No one will know you as a worshiper. If you'll stay a worshiper, the nations will call you a warrior. And preaching was in my heart, but I had never done it. And that literally was the beginning of a thing in my life. And now, to me, I'm just a worshiper who I guess preaches, you know, like, it's funny how that word, this is one of the things though that I've respected about you. From afar, so we have a mutual friend, my best friend, Tim Ross. Yeah. I asked him, he was here a week, we can have a go. And I said, Hey, I'm sitting down with Javan. Give me, give me your thoughts. And immediately, and I know what he means when he says this, he goes, press, he's 100% us. And I'm like, we're better than anybody, but just he knows and know what, what that means. And one of the things I've respected about you from afar is you seem like a guy who doesn't take the predictable path, wherever the spirit of God is, is moving. And so it's actually the two things I really wanted to talk to you about in this episode, we're having the faith to take the least predictable path and the God-pleasing life. Because these are two things as I watch you from afar. They seem like they describe you fairly accurately. So go back. I mean, I don't think everybody truly understands because I remember back then, you were popping off in worship. And it was a full-on thing. And most people, if they were thinking about climbing the ladder, quote unquote, maybe like no, bro, you got to. Yep. You've worked really hard to get to this place. You got to fire all your bullets in this season, man. Don't get out of this boat. So help me understand how God shaped you in a way where when the clouds started moving. And completely what seemed to many opposite direction helped me understand how had you been fashioned to where you didn't blink. You just started moving. Yeah, it's interesting to process that because I don't feel like I do a lot. But I do feel like I remember the pressure coming. I'm leading worship a ton. I'm recording. I'm albums are starting to go off. It's starting to like, it's kind of like, all right, do we move to Nashville? Do we become a writer? Do we? Is that the thing? And then even guy, and then as I started preaching a little bit, guys telling me, don't preach. Don't do that. Don't be a pastor. Don't be a preacher. Do that. This is what you need to be doing. And I do think it's funny how you can you can live your life so carnally and not carnal, not sensual, sinful, just carnal. You just go to the five senses and you go, okay, this makes it's like it's all right here. And that is not the way we are to serve the Lord. I know, no man, no KNO, no man, NNO, after the flesh, no, no man after the flesh, including the Lord. Like, don't know Jesus after the flesh. Don't have a relationship with the Lord after the flesh. Don't. It's great. Don't process. I think maybe in the charismatic world or whatever we've maybe been afraid of people getting flaky and kooky, which it's gonna happen anyway. It happened in Corinth, it's gonna happen in America, but we are to hear his voice. And I don't know where we've lost that. I don't know what happened with that, but it's like, I'm not my own, like, you know what I mean? And you do have to follow the cloud, you do have to follow the pillar, you do have to follow the leading of the Holy Spirit. And as that grace started lifting off of me for music, not now, and this I think is important for people to understand. The grace didn't lift off of me in influence or in favor or in opportunity. The grace was lifting off of me spiritually, like what the Lord was doing. And I think that's huge, because you go, but it's working, but it's paying the bills, but it's butt, butt, butt, butt. No, no, no, great. We moved by grace. We moved by a totally different thing. And if there isn't grace on it, I'm not doing it. And so as that grace started lifting and I started giving into, I think this new grace, that God was, I guess, inviting me into, there's always that, you know, the word of the Lord comes and then Proverbs 30, it's gonna be tested like silver, right? Like there's always gonna be this, but God, you sit, but God. And there's always gonna be that process of testing fire on, you know, discomfort. Did I hear God? I think I heard God. Until it was time, just a Phil, Joseph's dream, God test. Tested his character. Yeah. And so, and I talk about that a lot in my preaching, how God told Joseph just enough to get him to move. He just, he didn't lie. God doesn't lie. That's great. But he didn't tell him about the whole truth. He didn't tell him about Potiphar's wife. He didn't tell him about, he didn't tell him about the next 13, 1113, 13 years, whatever it was, that he was about to walk through. But he told him enough to move. Not because he was teasing Joseph, lying to Joseph, or manipulating Joseph. But it's like God knows if he told us everything, we wouldn't do anything. Right. So he has to give you just enough to move. And then once you're in it, now there's grace for it that you wouldn't have had. Beautiful. You wouldn't have had before you took the step. So I feel, I feel that a lot. And I think in that, in those moments, walking away from that. And I think what happens is whenever all obedience leads to easier obedience in the sense that it's like, okay, I've been here before. Not that it's always easy, but I've been here. I know this. I'm familiar with this. It's like, you know, Hebrews talks about your growing in your spiritual senses, right? Hebrews 5 and 6. Like, you're by practice of use, I think it says in the Old King James. It's like, I'm learning this thing called faith and spirit. So then when it's, I'm now in Newport Beach and I'm serving Jensen Franklin, my hero and the church is booming and I have every, everything in the sense of comforts, salary, pastor, freedom. I mean, you know, I mean, like you name it, it's all there. And the clouds moving. And literally he looks at me and goes, I'll give you any location you want. Any location we have, you can have it. Just what do you want to do here? You can do whatever you want to do here. And I go, we got to go to Vegas. But I could only do that. I think because of daily, you learn a lot of this in just daily obedience and you learn, you take these steps every once in a while that grow you. And you don't, you don't totally know what you're saying. Yes, you know who you're saying is you don't know what you're saying us to. And that's why we could pack up a U-Haul and you know, 2018 and moved to Vegas and feel, feel foolish. Right. But no, the Lord. Right. So you know it's God, but your five senses are screaming. So are most people in your life. And most people in your life will want through their five senses. Yeah. What are you doing? Right. But you can't, again, you can't know God after the flesh. You have to go deep calls on to deep. Leading of the Spirit. It's a whisper. And that's what I want to talk about first. Because the hearing ear, everything you're describing without the hearing ear is impossible. So take me back to when, when did the hearing ear start? For me, I was 13. That's when I first remember starting to learn to hear the voice of the Lord. But what was the journey for you? Because the Lord so faithful years before its time to make huge bets in and on Vegas. He hones your hearing ear. So how did that happen for you? I think it starts in the word faith comes by hearing, hearing by the Word of God. You begin to honor, trust, obey, live in the Word. You value the Word. I think God takes it personally how we treat the scriptures and how we obey the scriptures and how we process the scriptures. I think he looks at that and goes, okay, you've been faithful in something that you can kind of see black and white on a paper. I'm going to trust you now with something deep in here that you can't see, but you can feel in here. I think that really matters to God. And I feel like people don't realize that. Like they don't really take that fully to heart. And then it starts to create a dialogue. I'm thinking of the woman with the issue of blood. She heard about Jesus, right? She hears about Jesus. And in the Greek language that phrase, there is she heard the things concerning Jesus. So she's like, she's getting in the Jesus orbit. Then she says to herself, if I could just touch the hem of his garment, I'll be healed. So now there's like this hearing that's creating this internal dialogue that's healthy. It's not I've been getting worse for 12 years. I've lost all my money. Where is God? What have I done? I'm unclean, which would have been her. And now she's starting to hear all this like, I think I could be healed. If I could just, well, where does all that comes from hearing? She heard and then she said, and I think that is our entire life we hear. And then we speak or we hear and then we do. I think it starts in the in the book. I think then, and I'll let you read every read because I know it's going to be so good. You have to shift how you pray. And I don't have a prayer list. I just don't have one. I'm not against them. I don't think they're wrong. I don't have a goal list. I don't have a 2026 goal list. I don't have a prayer list. Prayer is hearing. Prayer is Jeremiah 33, calling to me, and I'll show you things you do not. You do not know. So a lot of my prayer is Lord. I don't know. But you said if I'll talk to you, yeah. So prayer is just as much hearing and listening as it is talking. If we actually believe what we're saying right now, right? It's it's pace. It's just a big thing and I'll I want to stop. But you can't be heard in here from God. I love it. I love it. You can't you just you can't go. I've got 30 minutes. Lord. My man. I love it. You just can't. Yeah. And Moses went up to the mountain for 40 days, right? Elijah would get alone with God. Like Jesus would spend these extended seasons, right? Paul, I went to I went to the desert for three and a half years. There's just something about time, right? Joseph until he was ready. Moses 40 years and midi. Yeah. 40 years. David from the time he was anointed, time he became keen. There's just there's all this season stuff that like and I don't think that's just about time periods for your destiny. When you go to God, you can't go to God with a cap got four chapters today because I got to read the Bible in a year. And I'm going to pray for 30 minutes as if that's the number. Right. There you have to get you have to slow yourself down. And that's where you hear the Holy Spirit. How would it go if we sat down with our wives and said, okay, I got 30 minutes. Right. So whatever you, like we need to get it into this 30 minutes, because I got 30 minutes right here, there are sometimes where I go into time with my wife, thinking, okay, I've got, I've got lunch. I've got an hour. Yep. And it ends up being faster. And then sometimes we end up sitting for three hours. Yep. And the point isn't the clock. The point is the proximity. Right, right, right. And sometimes, oftentimes, it takes more time. When you're talking about the word, I love what you're saying, because I think so many people, when we talk about honing hearing ears, it's just why I started pressing in for words from the Lord, and that's what people think. And it's like, no, no, no, and no. Yep. When you're describing what you were immediately, my mind went to a Zekio III. He writes in verse one, the voice said to me, "Son of man, eat what I am giving you. Eat this scroll." Eat the book. Then go and give its message to the people of Israel. Zekio says, "So I opened my mouth, and he fed me the scroll. Fill your stomach with this," he said. And when I ate it, it tasted as sweet, as honey in my mouth. This is the perspective when we get to the place where it's like, "Four chapters ain't, ain't gonna be enough." And I'm not trying to put right right right right there on it, but just taking the ceiling off and saying Lord I just want to draw near yeah, I want to hear you if there's something you want to say. I want to get out of the way yeah, and so I love that and even that I just preached Ezekiel three recently and a principle that I kind of shared from it was eat He said eat and then Don't do anything till you eat it's great eat consume preacher You got to eat so good. Stay at home mom. You got to eat college. You got to eat leader Whoever leaders are watching right now you have to eat eat and then it's gross. Be eat and then Whatever you're gonna do start that business sell that house don't don't sell your house without a word Don't buy a new house without a word. Don't go to business with that person without a word don't Don't ask that girl to marry you without a word like Don't decide on how many children you're gonna have without a word like eat and Then so good whatever you're gonna do next And I think that is just such a a way that I've lived that feels It feels slower. I'm not even sure it is slower Because I think like what we were talking about even before we hit record It feels like subtraction and then also got hits multiply And you go whoa how did I get here? It felt like cut cut cut cut cut cut chop chop chop Prume prume prume prume and then all of a sudden you're the expert And it was It was the arm of the flesh Joseph Prince taught me this he's a He's just been very very good to me very kind to me He said jamin the arm of the flesh is always faster you can always produce initially you can always go there and It's fast and it's fruit and it looks like The fulfillment of the word I Zick always sticks longer And and it's gonna be it's gonna take a miracle But that's the son of the promise so Anything you can produce In the flesh you can produce faster or it will produce faster than God It'll make sense in the natural. It's kind of like Sarah and Abraham going well, we got a car. Yeah Make sense though. Yeah, I mean yeah, I mean this is not gonna happen to me. It can happen to her. Yeah Or you or you go on the the timing of God that then produces nations. I mean so There is just there is a way to do this guys that is slow and steady and peaceful But it requires a total different level of patience. Yeah, because you are going There are seasons and again, I don't feel them as much now because I think again by reason of use You you end up knowing the the character of God and you kind of know what God's up to But in those early days You're going I think I I think I heard God. I was pretty sure I heard God at the time I knew I heard God and Man the the peace though so so talk to me that the hearing ear Grounded in the word obviously huge don't don't move forward without a word Get to know what his voice sounds like Talk to me about the so you make the switch and We know how it works. It's it's not like you're immediately senior pastor in church. This took right years as you transition talk to me about the in between Where you knew the faithfulness of God? He he was showing himself faithful because it's all he is he's never unfaithful, but you were living it you were experiencing it and Maybe everyone else wasn't seeing it in the beginning because I know we've got some young guns for who maybe in the same exact spot where they know they heard the Lord. Yep, but they've they've taken the jump and It's not looking the way everybody else viewing through their five senses. Yep thought or thinks it should look How how did you stick to your guns? Yeah, what what was the bedrock? During that initial in between So I would go back to What I felt like the Lord told me I would go back to what I believe God spoke through my pastor So like like if we if we even talk about Vegas, so you leave them a mega mega mega ministry free chapel mega on every level to a junior high cafeteria on Metal folding chairs with pipe and drape and a creaky stage and you're just going And then and you have to go back to Okay, I heard from the Lord and I actually heard from my pastor because I submitted this to my pastor and he got the word of the Lord and his word Was the Macedonian call from Acts? He he said there is a group in all King James because Jensen reads by Blinking James They prayed to Paul to come they prayed to him to come And I think in the newer train, you know, they begged him or implored whatever it would be And he said they're praying for you to come their Vegas is praying for you people and Vegas are praying for you They don't even know who you are you're gonna be the answer to somebody's prayer. So I felt like I had The word I felt like I had confirmation I think when you're in it So to the best of your ability do the thing You feel like you're called to do meaning Not try to produce the fruit of what you thought that was gonna look like but why am I here? Well We even if you go back to Ezekiel 3 sit where the people sit before you prophesize it with the be go just go get in it Feel them sense them see what they need feel the That's where I got like we were talking about before it talking about like the strongholds of our city I got into the city and so what does this city need and what can we bring to bring freedom to the city? Because you actually just have to kind of get in it and you start On that level to minister To people without A definition you have to die to definition of success is that you brought into that moment Whether it's we're gonna grow to a thousand or we're the biggest arc launch in history or where the You know blah, blah, you know whatever you have to die to all of that And you have to go and they've got called me And I'm doing the thing he called me to do even If right now it's on a smaller Scale than I maybe expected. Why do you think? God so consistently operates in that manner because we could go through I mean David's a great example The horn of oil is poured over his head The oil hits him. He is now tabbed to be the next king of Israel And I don't know but the boy could have been thinking okay. This is it. This is it Joseph clearly thought it because he immediately started sharing it with people I think when I was young if the Lord I told you before we recorded if the Lord wouldn't have told me when I was leaving like you a mega mega And as their first church plant and going from a four thousand seat room to you know An empty 800 seat room 67 people If the Lord wouldn't have said Preston this isn't going to start the way everyone expects I think I would have dealt with a measure of this award appointment because I don't, I didn't want anybody to be disappointed in me. I love the people I love. I never wanted anybody to be disappointed on account of me. Yep. And if he wouldn't have said it, it helped yeah. Calibrate me to go, hey, this is the way I roll. Preston, this is what I do. Why do you think he seems to always do it that way? Well, what the word, what that word does is like when Paul tells Timothy, you're going to be able to fight a good warfare with this prophecy. So when you're in it, you have the word. You have the prophecy. And that's your, that's your sword. That's your, all right. I got the word of the Lord. Why is Paul telling Timothy to fight with this promise? Because obviously, whatever he was going through didn't look like what God said. Yeah. So now I'm in a situation that does not look like what he told me the seed never looks like the fruit. The seed never looks like the harvest ever. It's great. That the apple seed doesn't look like the apple. It's not, but it's seed form. And I can't judge where God's going to take me by this seed form that I'm in right now. Now, why does God do it? Because He loves us. Because He disciplines those He loves. Because He's being gracious enough to us, to not overwhelm us with His hand of blessing that would crush us. But none of that feels good. None of that feels like God in the moment. And I just think God's so much more patient, right? Us, yeah, I'm a penicostal preacher. God's in our heart. We're running out of time. I'm like, man, if there's one thing I've found out about God, He is unhurried. He is not an hurry. He's on his own clock. He's doing his own thing. He's producing a weight of glory in me. And he's taken his time. And I'll just say this to now 42 churches eight years old. When we planted the church at 34, I felt so late. I felt so old with my no wrinkles, dark brown hair, no bald spots, no comb over. I mean, I, I felt so old at 34. Now 42 gone. I was so young, so dumb, could awaited a couple more years would have been so happy to wait till after COVID could have would have loved to have launched in 2021, right? You know, rich had planted, Chad had planted other, you know, other got you had planned. I didn't know yet, but I knew of you. Other guys are planting. And I'm feeling late. Now I look back and I'm like, oh, man, how so young. Yeah. And now at 42, I don't feel old. That's what's funny too. I'm now 42. I feel young. I feel young. Right. I feel good, right? Like, I don't know. I was totally a little depressed when I first turned 40. Like, oh, my God, I turned it 40. And now this is, man, I'm 42. And I'm like, oh, I feel I feel better than ever. So it's funny how you'll feel late. You'll, I think the devils always train to convince who you're out of season. The late great Kenneth the Hagen used to say, I'd rather be late in the will of God than early out of the will. It's great. So I think knowing times in season, knowing is so important. Never, never feel rushed. But kind of back to heried with the Lord, I would just say in general, if I've ever felt rushed, it wasn't God. Opportunity of a lifetime, gotta do it now. Gotta move quick. It's never been God. Interesting. It's, it's never been that way. And I just think there is a way. I've been kind of thinking about this thought when the woman built Elisha, the upper room. I think there's just so much to it. But it mentions the furniture in the room. And that bed became very significant. He prophesied from the bed, ended up putting the boy on the bed, resurrected the boy on the bed. Rest, ease, peace, sleep. The miracle didn't happen in the chair on the table. There's some about the bed and I'm just kind of developing this thought in my mind. There is a rest that you can get into. And I would even just say this, you can either slow down or you can be miserable in ahead of God. Yeah. And I've just learned, oh, I'm just gonna pull back. It's kind of like for most men walking through them all with their wives. You just walk faster, right? Walking through the airport with your wife. You're just blowing through, especially now that nine-year-old daughter, right? They are just so slow. We're on a walk last night. And I just, all of a sudden, I kind of look back and they're 20 feet behind me, right? And I'm like, okay, slow down. I just think his pace is, and you can be out of it. And you're gonna, you're not gonna like it. It makes me think of what what God says to Moses in Exodus 33. He says, I will go with you, you know, Moses is saying, or do you keep telling me I'm going to the land of the process, but you're not telling me who's going with me. And God goes, how about I go with you? And it's interesting me to me what God promises, Moses. All will go well for you. And I will give you rest. Well, and it's interesting when we just walk with him, whether slow the line I have used this God seems to move excruciatingly slowly in preparation for moving supernaturally quickly. Wow. Yeah. I love that. This seems to be a pattern in scripture. Even when God says to these real lights, He says, listen, my paraphrase, I know you're going to want me to give you the land of the promise all at once overnight. But if I did that, yeah, the wild animals would overtake you. You'll get overtaken by right. And I feel the Lord does that. It's a gracious act, little by little. For instance, He sends me to Scottsdale and it starts with 67. And six weeks go by. Cody was my, Cody Carnes, our worship pastor at the time, who's like a little brother. And this is first weekend out. Got another guy on the stage leading worship worship starts in this 800 seat room that I didn't want to be in. But the Lord is one of those Deuteronomy 11 12 moments where the Lord goes, you'll worship the Lord in the place. I myself choose and press on I choose right here. My Lord, if I, if I start as gay ways first church fight in 850 seat room, everyone's going to be like, oh, this is just the pride of this. I don't want to meet here. And the Lord just kept repeating, well, you will worship the Lord in the place I myself choose. So we go into this huge room, the Scottsdale Center for the performing arts. Cody's gone. And at the time, we're running 70 people in an 800, 800, 150 seat room. Okay. And worship starts. And there were like seven people on the stage and six people in their seat. And Holly and my wife, we're two of the six. And Javin, she literally ends over in the front row. She leans over and she goes, she whispers, "A barrel of the people." And she's talking about the people up in the lobby, you know? Right. Not where they 100 people. Where at the 70? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And the second she said it, it triggered me. And for two songs, I mean, I've never gripped to the Lord and at the Lord more than I did in those two songs. Javin, I was letting him have it. Lord, I was a part of a move of God back in Dallas. Why are you bringing me out to this doesn't make sense? It's a desert. I don't even know if you're here. But what is going on two songs? And then at the beginning of song three, this was, this is not hyperbole. It changed a lot about me. This one moment as song three started, the Lord just very firmly said, "Baswitley, precedent appears to me as though you are more concerned with who isn't here. Then you are with who is. And if you'd like, I can leave." Wow. But I fell on my face. Wow. In that empty room and wept. My wife thought something was wrong with me. I wept. She's depressed about this. I was so embarrassed before the Lord. And what's wild? It was a gift. It's one of the best gifts he's ever given me because it wasn't just about the people. He was attacking the expectations of a man. And that's where so many totally young men and women, especially get, get it twisted and end up on a path they never expected because people create these unrealistic and dare I say at times ungodly expecting. David's a great example. David's in the cave. He's got Saul. I mean, this, this is your moment and everybody around him takes him going through their five senses. Yep. Going. This is your chant. You're the king. Yep. He's, he's hungali. You, you take him now and his heart was so innocent before the Lord that he felt convicted about a tiny little piece of cloth. I, I think some of the best gifts God gives us are after we take the initial step where he gives us just enough to get us to move. Yep. But not enough to overwhelm us to get us to run. Yeah. Yeah. But he starts developing us by giving us these holy moments with him to go now. This impress him. This is going to come in handy down the road. And wouldn't you know 10 years later, eight, eight years later, COVID hits. Yep. And for a number of weeks, I'm preaching in an empty room every week to this day, 13 and a half years. It's, it's my favorite preaching. I've, the Lord's letting me do something here because it was him, me and a sound guy. Right. He was taking me back. Hey, buddy, I know there's more people in the room now. It's not about them. Right. It's you and me. So I think there's just his pace is always connected to a grace. Yep. That usually until we have a hindsight, do we really appreciate it? And you know, Joshua one, God said, I'll give you good success. Which to me means there's bad success. And what I would just challenge especially preachers and pastors is if you're successful, but you have no peace and you have, you have bad success somewhere in there, you open a door to bad success. You've got to get to a place of good success, which to me is, is, yeah, it's pace, it's peace, it's family, it's slower, it's relationship, it's, I preach that this week and it's just kind of a life verse for me, Revelation 3 20. I'm standing at the door knock. I want to come in and have a meal with you as a friend. Like you can't lose that. And if you lose it, you're lost, you're, you're cooked, man, you're cooked. And Jesus is writing that to a church, right? He's not writing that to the lost, though I think you could use it for an alter call, but I, he's writing to Christian, saying, you've kicked me out. And we've lost friendship. And we've lost meals. We've lost supper time. We've lost somewhere along the line, you shut the door on me. And how crazy to think that we can in his, I think in his mercy. And maybe I don't fully understand the full mystery of it, but somehow in that he'll just let us function without him terrifying. He'll, he'll fire you Saul and still let you be king. You're fired. You're still king. You're fired, but you're still the pastor. You're fired, but you're, but you're, you're still preaching and writing books. You're firebe some of podcasts. And God's going, you're fire, bro. I've already got David. David's coming. I already found David terrifying to me that you've, you've lost the anointing. You've lost the meal. You've lost the dinner table. You've lost the friendship, but you're still functioning in a gift because they're given without repentance. I remember the Lord asked the preacher one time. He said, "When did Jimmy swagger lose the anointing?" And the preacher was having this relation, you know, to talk with the Lord and he was probably, and he said, the Lord told him he was operating in his gift. When the people left, it wasn't that all of a sudden I lifted, I had already lifted. It was that they just finally saw kind of behind the curtain, right? And I just think, I don't want to live that way. I don't want to live without God's hand on me, door shut. And if life is feeling very difficult, very, it's not enough where, yeah, this isn't, you've got to get back to that. Yeah. You got to get back to that simple, even even the children of Israel. God says, they're going to come to the wilderness and worship me. The moment they get out to the wilderness, they're complaining. We missed the leeks and onions. One, they were going to get leeks and onions in the promised lane. We're sick of this man. The man was going to be forever. The man is ceased and Joshua 5, that was going to end. They never did the thing. God ultimately wanted of them, which was worship. Come out and worship me. They never did that. Moses did, but within days, they're creating golden calves. So it's like we can just get so off center because you would have looked at the children of Israel in the wilderness and they're free. Kind of, but they never did the very thing. God. Yeah. Ultimately wanted of them was worship. Simple simplicity. So then we got big churches and big buildings and big blah, blah, blah. And if we lost, though, the very simple, and I can, I can tell you now, start serving out as 15 June 10, 1998, tell Rio, Texas, faith, mission. Love it. It was that. It was that friendship with the Lord. That's what I felt. I fell in love with God and His Word and that simple and that touch of the Holy Spirit. And I know life can be life in, and life can get difficult. Life can get is not as simple now at 42 as it was at 15. But that I still have that walk with God. I was playing the Gathers on the drive over here. And the Gathers sing in sweet hour prayer. And it's like, if I can just stay there, I can stay hidden in the rock. Yeah. You're hitting on something that I love. The, I love that the Holy Spirit descends on Jesus like or as a, like not as a dove. At the same time, the Father is saying, this is my Son and whom I'm well pleased. Yeah. Well, and when I watch you and what's happened with you, especially this last 10 years, watching from afar, not knowing you, but you know, you watch somebody enough, you're like, okay, I think I can go and tell what makes this guy tick. Yeah. Because it's so consistent. If, if I was a betting man, I would have been betting 10 years ago that one of the hallmarks of your life is to be pleasing to the Lord. So we talk for a minute about the cost. When everybody around you is going, hey, up into the right, keep it up into the right. Yeah. This is it. The ceiling is broken. You start wandering off, you know, according to them into the wilderness. And God starts moving. He's with you. You know it. And then the even bigger ass, you've been paying the price all along. But now you're in a whole new realm. And the prices ratchet it up. And even before we're filming, you're talking about how, as you're trying to build this building, church gives away, right? Nearly three quarters of, yeah, of what was given. Yeah. I mean, this is this is the crazy stuff that is pleasing to the Lord. That is part and parcel for the one who is dead set on passing the test. Like we said, until it was time to fulfill Joseph's dream, not the dream Joseph had for himself. Right. The dream God had given Joseph until it was time to push the button on that dream. God consistently tested Joseph. Right. And it was a character test. But part of the character test is seeing what price we are willing to pay for the Lord to get whatever he wants. So talk to me about getting comfortable, Javan with paying full price. Yeah. I think you have to start by everything in the kingdom is a seed that has to die to be resurrected. Everything in the kingdom of God is like a seed. Jesus said, I don't think we believe that. I don't think we embrace that. I don't think I think we might believe it theologically. I don't think It is very hard to get there. I'm even trying to be, I'm even trying to say right now, 42. And I would feel like that's one of my life messages. And I still am, I am saying, do I really believe that the Kingdom of God is a seed? Not the White House, not 747, not Air Force One, excuse me, not Glitz and Glam, not Mega Buildings, not. The Kingdom of God is a seed. Everything God begins in your life as a seed. I think if I can embrace that and foster that and die to. And by the way, I love my life. Let me just say, like, I'm not dumb like, die, like. Right. I love my family. I love God. I love my church. I'm talking about dying to all of my family. I love the crap that the mega religious system or even just the American dream that how it can creep into you. You have to die to all that and go, I'm a seed. And I have to be buried, which is being planted. I have to die to some things. And then God's actually going to resurrect something out of this. I think it's so huge. And I think what we have to die to part of this is, you have to die to what is the win? What's the win? What's the win for pillar? What's the win for city life? What's the win for your ministry? What's the win for this podcast? What's the win for my book? What's the. You have to die to all that and go, the win is a daily walk with the Lord. That's actually the win. Somebody asked me the other day, "How do you think the book's going to do?" I was like, "I don't think you think I'm there." You think number one, you think I'm thinking about September? Do you think I'm thinking about the book? Or are we talking about it? I don't know what's tomorrow, hold on. I don't know what I'm eating for a bunch. I think there's some joy in that. Number one. I agree. But two, the win is, I went on a long walk with my family last night. The win is, we got in the car Easter Sunday and my daughter goes, "What'd you preach on?" I'm sorry, she didn't say that. She goes, "I love the sermon. She's not. I love the sermon." She goes, "The scripture you preached is what we learned in city-like kids." I said, "What's that? For God so love the world." And he gave his only begotten son, that whoever would believe in him would not perish. But I've everlasting life. John 16, 13. I love it. I said, "Good enough. I don't care, but I didn't even correct it." I go, "Yup, nailed it." That's it. Nailed it. That's the win. The win is we had dinner. Sunday night is a family. And laughed. And ate Joe Stone crab. It's the win is, time in the word. The win is like, you still open up the scripture and something. And you go, "I love that feeling." It's like a warm hug. It's a warm hug. The win is you still feel God's touch on your life. Not how many people came. Not how many. Not what's in the bank. Not. And I think maybe guys would look at us and go easy for you to say. And I just want to say, fair, but it's not true because that was my win in my 20s. And that was my win at 15. And that was my win in my 30s. It was open the door of your heart and let's sit down as friends and have a meal. And I have fought for that. And that is still the win. That is still the pride. That is still the prize. Does life look different now? Yeah. Is there a little more money in the bank now? Yeah. Is there some notoriety? Whatever. I'm telling you. Yeah. It's Jesus. Yeah. And I think if you can, and I do think fight for it. I think you have to fight for it. I think you have to, I think it has to be a daily surrender to it. I think it has to be a daily picking up of the cross of what really matters. And because I woke up Monday after seven services and however many people came to our services. And I'm still me. And I still got to do this thing. I still got to love Jesus and love my family. And I still got to brush my teeth. You know what I'm saying? So if you'll, if you'll die to the win. Cause here is nothing. Cause that goal post is always moving. Yeah. Right. So the talk on our, of our staff kind of jokingly Tuesday was like, we got a renovating next year. We got here. I'm like, I am so not there yet. I'm like not talking about that. Don't go on to the, because it's never enough. Right. It's never enough. If you had a thousand, you wish you had had 1500. If you had 5000, you wish you had had. You'll never, you'll never have enough in the bank. You'll never have enough. Selvi, you'll never have enough people in your groups. You'll never. So if that's the goal post will always shift. The devil knows how to just keep it. But if the, but if the win is, I love God. I feel to the best of my ability today, surrender to the Lord and loved by God and boy, what a difference. I mean, I'm just telling you what a, and I, and I think there's two schools of thought, right? I'm not like he's one of us like, because I do think there's something to that. There's something to a Tim Roskowen. I'm done. I'm not going to pass through the search anymore. God told me I'm done. What? Are you talking about? Yeah, God said I'm done. There's some peace in that. Now, now it's crazy. But there's some joy in that. But you get used to the crazy because Genesis 12 is, I love that. This is the picture for all of us. We go without fully knowing. And otherwise it's not faith. But you know, you know when you're in the heart. And I agree with you. I think it's worth every price, quote unquote, that we pay because nothing we can chase satisfies the way that he does. I love the picture that you're painting there because my, the thing I live and die by his friendship with God. It's my life message. It's, it's the book that we're finishing. It's, I think that's the whole. I'm grateful to be a child of God in a co-air with Christ. But I'll tell you, I am even more grateful to be a friend of God. Because I know too many children of God that aren't even fully aware that becoming a friend of God, they just look at somebody like Abraham or Moses or a David and go only, only people, he makes that kind of a way. Right, right, right. Can be friends. And you go, I'll see this is the thing. You, you have to see it as the highest priority of your life. This is why it's so powerful that Moses says, don't ask me ever, ever. This is the guy for 120 years of life that God had oriented towards the land of the promise. A spot. Yup. And that guy says, my paraphrase, listen, I know, like I, my whole life, you've been orienting me towards that spot. But let me just say, don't ever ask me to go to any spot. Yeah, if you're not going where you want because you're here. And so I just stay right here. It has to become the non-negotiable. And then it doesn't matter if you're in prison. And if you'll negotiate your walk with God, you'll negotiate anything. Anything, anything can be compromised if you'll compromise that. And that's what, and it's not legalism and it's not religion. It's, but if I'll negotiate time with God, if I'll negotiate my walk with God, if I'll negotiate disobedience to the still small voice to the Holy Spirit, I will everything else is negotiable. If that's not negotiable, it's by like, sums out by his grace, nothing else is negotiable. It's so crazy how if you'll, if you'll, goodness gracious, if you will take that lightly, if you'll take the invisible lightly, nothing will be sacred that's visible marriage won't be sacred sex won't be sacred money won't be sacred pride won't be sacred. So it's like God tests you in the, in the secret. in the invisible realm. And I go back to the sermon in the upper room, right? I think, "Sermon on the Mount" has gotten more traction. And I think it's great, obviously. It's the words of Jesus. I'm not, hey. But the sermon in the upper room is the new covenant sermon. - Yeah. - Abide. That's it. And when I cut you, I'm gonna cut you. And it's gonna be for your good. And it's gonna bring multiplication. And I'm, and the way I'm gonna prune you is through my word. I'm gonna speak to you. You've been cleansed by my word. Jesus told the disciples. So I'm gonna, this is all gonna be relationship based. It's gonna be Holy Spirit. It's gonna be name of Jesus. It's gonna be, we are gonna be one like me and the father one. What a radically different approach the sermon on the Mount is. I mean, I'm sorry that the sermon in the upper room is then how most of us live our Christian life. But if you'll embrace that, and it's all just abiding, it's all just staying close. Again, it's not as, it just takes some patience. It takes a different rhythm. And you have to kind of, it takes you a while, I think, at first, especially as Americans, especially if you're a preacher watching and you're kind of, to get into that slow thing. - Yeah. - But I do, you know, I think of you. I think of Philip. I think of Michael Culeonos and Orlando, like Ben doing something a long time that nobody saw. And the God saw. God saw, I found a man. - Yeah. - I found, don't worry, don't worry Samuel, I found a man. He's 16. He's a man to me. He's a king. There's a king in him. - Yeah. - And so it's a different way, it's an opposite way. It's a kingdom way, it's a seed way. And, you know, Paul said, I'm not going out of the boundary line, second, from the instant, the Greek word, "metron." I'm not leaving this. This is what God gave me. I think even when we talk about, you know, you can grow your capacity. I'm not like against that. I think you can grow your capacity within. - Right. - You still have a capacity, like this thing's only gonna hold whatever, six ounces. We're, like, we're trying to make this bigger. Maybe you won't pass through church of thousands. Maybe you won't have a podcast that gets more than a couple hundred views. Maybe you will never write a book. Maybe your Instagram will never pop off. But I'm not leaving so good. Because any time you leave, your space that God's giving you, your trespassing, you leave your metron, you leave your place of authority, you leave your sphere, Paul called it, your trespassing, you're sitting. Well, that church is doing, so they're doing multi-campus. Well, he started a podcast. Everybody started a podcast. Man, I'm better start a podcast. You're sinning because you've trespassed. You've left your space. J.A.V.M., why don't you guys send more of the one-campus? Because God hasn't told me to start a second campus. - So great. - And that money is not mine. I am not a McDonald's. We are not a franchise. People tithe and give to God. God's trusting me with that. And I don't just start secures. It would be a sin today to start a second location. Because God hasn't told me to. Not cheat on my life. Not go gamble the church's money at the blackjack table. Of course all that. It'd be a sin to start a second location. Shhh. And Paul says, "I want to go over there in Acts." And the spirit of Jesus said, no. - Shut the door. And if he would have went, he would have been in disobedience. Preaching. - Not adultery. Preaching. - Right. We're not talking about the bad things. - We're talking about the disobedient good thing. - Yes. This you are painting a picture. And then I had a feeling this is what I would find beneath the hood. It's so supernaturally simple. But it is not easy to walk this out. It is costly. It is at times. You're gonna feel crazy. - Yeah. - I mean, all of these things create a reliance. To me, it's impossible to abide if I don't first rely. If every day I don't wake up and go, I can't. I know I could. I could do this and I could do that. And I could do a lot of things. But unless I wake up and say, I can't. - Right. Unless you do. - Yep. - I can't. - Well, and if you ever think to yourself, wow, how did that guy do that? Some evil thing, right? He cheated or stole or blah, blah, blah, blah. It's because he disobeyed. And it looked like obedience. It looked like the Galatians getting circumcised. And Paul goes, you're damned. You are gonna cut yourself off from Christ. You have been bewitched. You're under a spell. And they're doing seemingly the right thing. Just cut it all off. If you're gonna go there, just cut it all off. And the point is on the outside, you go, look at these devout. Wow, look at this guy. Well, they started another location. Well, another service. Well, another, another, another excess, excess. You think you're rich in your poor. - Mm-hmm. - Why did they think they were rich? Because the metric said we're rich. And Jesus goes, I don't even count that way. My scales are different for all. I don't see this how you see this. Back to David, right? Men looks on the outward. I'm looking at the heart. I see this radically different than you. And that's true of everything, even, you know, the Elisha and the guys where there's a drought, their thirsty, their animals are gonna die. They're about to go into battle. Elisha calls for the minstrel they play. And the first thing the Lord says is, this is a simple matter to me. This is easy. Go dig ditches. You won't even see the rain. You won't even hear it. You won't even smell it. It's gonna come from an unexpected place. It's like everything about God is so different. - I love it. - This is a simple matter. It's easy. - I love it. - You think this is hard. This is not hard for me. - Yeah. - I sing in every area. I go all the way back, you know what I said at the beginning. It's like don't know God after the flesh. Don't bring all your human reasoning into how he's gonna do anything because it's gonna be different. It's so great. The point of everything he asked me to do at the heart of it involves his goal of me getting to know him better and draw near to him. I look back on all of the most difficult things God's asked me to do. We just adopted our youngest two years ago. We were less than a year away from being in the nesters. We're not a plan bro. I was working my plan. Empty nester before 50. Then we get to this stage. You know, this is how I thought it. 21, when I proposed. I get to that stage of my career and the two of us, I can go say yes to the things that we can travel enough to worry about the kids and we get there. And of course it doesn't go at all the way. The 21 year old me expected. - Right, right. - We encounter this little boy and God won't get off. His line in saying, "We please do this for me." It's our wrestle for two years, finally said yes. So now he's been my son for two years, Javan, not an exaggeration. What what God did in my heart through church planting is maybe 3%. By comparison, two in two years, what he's done using my son. And it's taught me more than anything. Anything he asks me to do. If I do it with him, the whole point of it is to see a side of him I've never seen before. This is what I love about Moses asking, show me your glory. He was saying, show me a side of you haven't ever seen before. I've seen so many sides and God's like, well, that side no more about it. You can't see me face to face. But I'll show you a side of me you've never seen. This is break it all down. He's at the core of it all. He knows me. He knows us. But he wants me to know him more. And so I love this episode has been so good for me, for my heart. I thank God for men like you who are doing it, endeavoring to do it the way that you are. It's not flattery. I don't bring anybody on that I got a flatter. I don't dwell with all that. But honor is the fruit of someone's life. It is easy to spot from miles and miles away. And I commend you for the way that you've done it. I thank God for the way that you've done it, are continuing to do it for the way he's responding. But that even in the midst of all of it, all the incredible things God has used you to do by 42. And it's just the beginning. That at the core of it all for you is abiding in him. Yep. That, that to me I pray is your takeaway. Because I'm telling you the success, the stuff it comes and goes, it's cyclical. And sometimes it's not. It's just a path and then it just falls off it. And in the end, none of it really matters by comparison. Getting to know the one true God, the creator of the universe, the one who fashion you and your mother's womb intentionally exactly the way he wanted you. What have all of the people in the history of humanity that he can look in the direction of and say, I want to be friends with that one. Just promise me, especially you young guns who already know you're like an Esther, you're like a Joseph the David and you sense it. It's part of the call in your life. Promise me this that no mountain will become more important to you than his. That no tower that man could build will ever become more important to you than God's cave. The key to your whole life will come down to knowing him. Not what you can do with these, not what you can think with this. So I pray that you hear this and this is somebody that God's had in and multiple seasons of his life. Not just one on a rocket ship, a supernatural rocket ship. You've got to hear that it's possible even even somebody God puts on a rocket ship with divine fuel. It's still possible to hold on to the him of his karma and not let go. I pray you call it today. Jameal, we just pray over everybody as we wrap. Father, thank you for your word that says that we can mount up like with wings of eagles, we can run and not grow weary, but ultimately what you really want is that we had walk and not be faint that you just want to walk with us. You want to take us right back to Genesis, just a walk, just a walk. Like that old song says, "I've come to the garden alone." He walks with me and he talks with me and he tells me I'm his own. And Lord, I just pray for that, for everybody watching, that a walk with Jesus would become the number one priority of their soul and of their schedule. And then out of that Lord, everything else is going to flow. And you're going to put them in boundary lines that are pleasing. You're going to put them in a space and in a place that they love because they love you and you're there. And ultimately that's all that matters. And so Lord, I just pray that you would refine our hearts and stir our hearts and draw our hearts back to you. We open our hearts back to Jesus, back to friendship with Jesus, back to a meal, back to a place of giving you our undivided attention. And I thank you that out of that, whatever you want to do through our lives and in our lives, you're going to do that. And it would be from a place of purity and place of power, place of peace, a place of a restored soul. So Lord, I just thank you for what you're doing in us and the deep work you're doing in our souls. We thank you for it. We embrace it. Yes, God. We thank you that you love us that much. But unlike a father that doesn't love his children, you love us. And therefore you're working on us and you're working in us. We give you the glory for it, Lord in Jesus name. Amen. Amen. Amen. What do you thanks for doing this? Amen. Really enjoyed getting to meet and getting to sit with you. You are a deep, deep well who clearly has God's hand on his life. How can they find you? Obviously, at CityLight. Yeah, citylightvegas.com, @citylightvegas, and then @jabinchavis. And yeah, we're in Vegas. So if there's anybody in Vegas, we're visiting Vegas. You know, they're looking for a church, but books coming out in September. Books coming out September 29, 2026. That'll be fun. Is it in the valley? What's what's it called? It's called what to do in the valley. I think it's going to be right now where I think it's going to be right now where I think it's going to be really helpful for people. And then, yeah, got a lot going on. Excited about it all. So yeah. Love it. Well, thanks for taking time, especially after Resurrection Weekend and everything that goes with it as a senior pastor with seven services. And thanks for doing this. Thank you. Appreciate it. Thank you. Love every single one of you. Thanks for sitting down with us. Pray it is an extremely anointed week this week for you whenever you're watching this. Pray heaven opens up over you. Get in this book. Yes. So tight to where it tastes like honey every time you read it. Love you so much. We'll see you next time.