The Prime Suspect [9]

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Check. Now, what's your plan for the first strep throat? The first ear infection at 2am? That's the part nobody writes down. The J.S. kids case is a physician prescribed supply of the medications kids need, ready before you need it. Add a J.S. case for the grownups and the whole household's covered. Finish the list at J.S.com. J.S. Medical. Physician led, mission driven. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the podcast author or individuals participating in the podcast and do not necessarily represent those of I Heart Media, How Stuff Works, or its employees. Robert Graysmith is the author of a book called Zodiac. Well, what happens 33 years later when you still don't have the killer? Are there still people working on this case? Are there still tips coming in? Anything to this investigation? Absolutely. We're pretty certain we know who he was. And he died with bombs in his basement and the Zodiac bomb formula, a disk in his computer that said Zodiac. I'm pretty sure that the case has solved so much information and so much attention was focused on the prime suspect in the case, the man who actually was the first suspect who knew all the victims, who stalked them, who had the skills and intelligence to write the letters and to commit the crimes, was literally stopped at his tracks. He was watched, eventually sent to prison for trial molesting during which there were no more activities from the Zodiac. The suspect that was focused on and highlighted in the film and in Graysmith's book and to a certain extent, even for Toskey and Armstrong, Arthur Le Allen was what they could call a good suspect. It's probably Arthur Le Allen, that was what all the main guys investigating it here thought, I think, Arthur Le Allen was the guy. I enjoy a good tussle that, hey, there were coincidences that tended to point towards me and killing just for the pleasure of it. Thank God for our Constitution, because that says a person is innocent and so proven guilty. A man and a mask robbed, tied, and stabbed them, leaving them for death. Subject stated, I want a report of murder. No, a double murder. I did it. A man who wore an evil-style executioner's hood, carried a knife and gun, and intended to use them. They haven't arrested me because they can't prove a thing. I'm not damn Zodiac. Who is the Zodiac? And where is he? From I Heart Radio, How Stuff Works, and Tinderfoot TV, this is Monster, the Zodiac Killer. The Zodiac case is rife with mystery. First and foremost, the Zodiac's true identity. Up to this point, there'd only been vague glimpses of the man behind the moniker. Witness descriptions were cloudy. He was only ever seen in the dark of night or behind a terrifying costume. We heard a strange voice call into a TV show, but it wasn't actually the Zodiac. So who was this guy? For years, it seemed like there would never be an answer. But then, a name, a face, and a voice were finally attached to the Zodiac. Publicly, one man became the most visible and likely suspect. One of the prime suspects in the Zodiac case over the years was a man who was initially identified for reasons we don't know in October of 1969. This is Zodiac expert Michael Butterfield. Arthur Lee Allen was a former school teacher who was working as a janitor, largely because he had been caught molesting children and had lost his job. For some reason, John Lynch of the Blao Police Department went and questioned Arthur Lee Allen. And on October 6, 1969, regarding his whereabouts at the time of the stabbing at Lake Berriessa, Allen said that he was at Salt Point Ranch and he had killed some chickens and that he didn't have any involvement in the crime. Salt Point is about 90 miles west of Lake Berriessa. It's close, but not close enough. And with no direct evidence linking him to the murder, Allen was let go. - After that, the police forgot about Arthur Lee Allen. And then in 1971, an estranged friend of Allen's went to police and said that prior to the Zodiac murders, Arthur Lee Allen had professed his desire to kill people and write letters to the media calling himself Zodiac. The police investigated the Blao Police and the San Francisco Police, including Bill Armstrong and Dave Toskey, spent about two weeks investigating Arthur Lee Allen and gathering information talking to people who knew him, including his brother and sister-in-law. And the individual who made this claim, Don Cheney. Don Cheney was first friends with Arthur Lee Allen's brother, Ron. And that's how he got to know Arthur Lee Allen or who was normally referred to as Lee. They became friends. They would hunt and fish and drink together and do things. But then at a certain point, it appears that Arthur Lee Allen attempted to molest one of Don Cheney's children. Don Cheney complained to Lee's brother, Ron, and was adamant that something had happened. And he was very upset about it. And he apparently severed his relationship with Arthur Lee Allen at that time. According to Cheney's timing of events, this occurred sometime in 1968, the last time he had ever talked to Arthur Lee Allen. According to Valeo PD Detective George Bauer, Allen told Cheney he wanted to write a novel. And in this novel, a character would do the following things. Kill random couples. Taunt police with letters recounting his crimes. We're makeup to disguise himself. Secure a flashlight to his gun so he could shoot in the dark. Call himself Zodiac. Cheney was questioned again about this story years later and these new details were recorded by Detective Bauer. Cheney recalled that Allen was gifted a Zodiac brand watch by his mother. And on the face of this watch, there was a symbol, a circle with a cross through it. Cheney said Allen wanted to sign letters with the same cross circle symbol from his watch. Cheney also claims that Allen wanted to fool women into stopping their cars in isolated areas. He would claim they had problems with their tires, then loosen their lug nuts and take them captive. Shortly after this, investigators learned of a connection to Darlene Ferrin, who was shot and killed by the Zodiac at Blue Rock Springs. As it turns out, Allen's family home was just a fraction of a mile away from the restaurant where Darlene worked. And Allen supposedly said he'd become friendly with a waitress at that restaurant. Police records say an unidentified man named Lee, often visited Darlene. So it's possible Allen was stalking Darlene. There was also a story that Arthur Lee Allen may have used friend's car to commit the murder at Blue Rock Springs, because this The surviving victim said that the killer was driving a car similar to Darlene's brown Correre. Allen was working at a gas station where a friend of his had apparently put a car up for sale. And the theory was that he had taken the car and committed the crime because Allen did not own a Correre or any vehicle similar to one. And eventually, in 1972, the San Francisco Police Department obtained a warrant to search Arthur Lee Allen's trailer in Santa Rosa, California. I'm Melissa Jeltsin and in my new podcast, What Happened to Her, I'm bringing you new stories and conversations every week. Stories about women whose deaths were too quickly rolled a suicide. She was starting to get worried and get scared for her safety. Stories of survival. The only difference between me and her, frankly, was a little bit of luck because by all rights, I should be dead. Cases that everyone else called closed. They can't convict her, right? Like, she has so much evidence. These stories all start in the same place. The woman failed by a system that didn't believe her, that didn't protect her, that didn't see her. No child should ever experience that. And we were babies. She did all of these grave things and came out and spoke about it and he got a year. I never know who that devil is because he's wearing disguise. Sometimes it's a police uniform. Listen to What Happened to Her on the I Heart Radio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. If there's a million times more digital intelligence than there is biological intelligence, it's hard to imagine humans being in control in that scenario. I'm Walter Isaacson, host of the new podcast The Builders. Right now, we're living through an AI arms race. So I went directly to the people shaping that future. Elon Musk, Derio Amade, Alex Cod, Feifei Lee, Palmer Lucky, because I wanted to understand what the most consequential builders believe, what they feel and where they think this is all headed. Silicon Valley is always saying the cliche thing about the way to predict the future is to create it. Well, yeah, it's up to us. Well, when you say us, who's us? Is it 400 people that you know in Silicon Valley? Is it me down here in New Orleans? They're brilliant, controversial and they're already shaping the future. The question is, who's imagination do we want to live in? This is going to determine the fate of nations and economies and the future of humanity. Listen to The Builders, on the iHeart Radio app Apple Podcast, or ever get your podcasts. I'm Hamza and I'm Martin, and we're the host of Out of Character. It's a podcast. I know there's a lot of them going around, but why should you listen hours? Well, we're only the best podcast in the entire world, and we talk about pretty much everything under the sun. For example, music we're listening to, underground music, trending music, drama in music worlds. Yes, sometimes we even talk about just everyday mundane situations in our lives like the cool Uber driver we just had or the food we just say that is surprisingly delicious. Or we'll talk about the Med Gala and the looks that they wore. Are they awesome? Are they trendy? Come find out. Because our opinion matters, and so does yours, and this is a place where all of our minds can come together and connect. So what are you waiting for? Come connect with us. Listen to Out of Character from Will Ferrell's Big Money Players Network, on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Pods, or wherever you get your podcasts. On September 14th, 1972, San Francisco police obtained a warrant and searched Allen's trailer. There was a partial list of what police were looking for. Writings, letters, and cryptograms in the same handwriting as suspect letters. Any pistol with a flashlight attached to the barrel, a blood stained portion of cloth from a striped gray and white shirt, the wallet or identification of Paul Stein, taxi keys from a yellow cab, a black executioner-type hood with a circle and cross on it, a large knife with a wooden handle. They did find some oddities in his home like dead squirrels and his refrigerator that he was using for his biology, classes, some sex toys, guns, things like that. Investigators found many bizarre things, but they didn't find any of the materials they were looking for, so they had no hard evidence to use against Allen. They did, however, obtain his fingerprints and samples of his writing. Those were thoroughly cross-examined with the zodiac letters. And that's when they learned that his fingerprints and handwriting didn't match, and so essentially Arthur Lee Allen was abandoned as a suspect. Yet again, Arthur Lee Allen was let off the hook. Despite some suspicious activity, Allen was in the clear, until. Years later, a best-selling book came out called Zodiac Written by Robert Graceman. I still talk to the investigators on the case, Inspector David Toskey, who was the main man on the case. He believes it was Arthur Lee Allen, the main man in Vallejo, George Bauer, who's retired now. He thinks it was Arthur Lee Allen. Virtually all the top investigators, who I really respect, believe that this was the man. That was Robert Gracemith. In the early 70s, he was a political cartoonist at the San Francisco Chronicle. Gracemith developed an obsession with the zodiac case, and so he was doing his own private investigation. In 1986, Gracemith published a book containing his complete findings on the case. It was simply titled Zodiac, and it went on to sell over 3 million copies. And in that book, Gracemith had given Arthur Lee Allen the pseudonym, Bob Hall star. A lot of people started to figure out that Arthur Lee Allen was Bob Hall star. People in the Bay Area realized he was the person they were talking about. And that book, of course, because it was a best-selling book, had a tremendous influence on the public and the media. Arthur Lee Allen, a longtime belayho resident and former professional student, is the man many still believe to be the dreaded zodiac. In Robert Gracemith's best-selling book, Zodiac, the suspect's brother and sister-in-law say that Allen often spoke of man as the most dangerous game. His own family at one time found him terrifying. Gracemith connected many dots between Arthur Lee Allen and the zodiac. One of which is that Allen was allegedly in Riverside when Sherry Joe Bates was murdered in 1966. The belayho police department had placed him in the area, and when questioned, Allen said he was in nearby Pomona during the Bates murder. He also called in sick from his job on November 1st, the day after Bates was found dead. As possible, Allen missed work to hide facial wounds inflicted by his victim. You may also remember that Zodiac left behind a footprint at Lake Beriesa. That footprint was made by a military boot. This suggested that Zodiac had some military experience. Arthur Lee Allen had numerous connections to the military. His father was the commander of a nuclear submarine at nearby Mayor Island. Even himself was in the Navy for less than two years before being discharged other than honorably. While there, Gracemith believes Allen developed an interest in codes and ciphers. Much of this is hearsay. The zodiac book laid out one undeniable mark against Allen. Gracemith points out that the last official zodiac letter came on July 8th, 1974. Only a few months later, Allen would go to prison on child molestation charges. During Allen's time in prison, there were no zodiac letters. Then in 1978, just months after Allen was released, a new letter showed up at the San Francisco Chronicle. Dear editor, this is the zodiac speaking. I am back with you, I am waiting for a good movie about me, who will play me. I am now in control of all things. Yours truly, zodiac, guess, San Francisco Police Department, zero. It's important to note here that this letter was never authenticated. We'll get into that in a later episode. Still, many investigators found this coincidence to be striking. Greasmith built a massive cave. case of circumstantial evidence against Arthur Lee Allen, and it was enough to convince a lot of readers of his guilt. Was Alan truly the villain Grace Smith made him out to be? Or was Alan just an incredibly strange individual? We asked someone who knew Alan personally. "He had a few chipmunks at his house. One time he came in the shop, he had a job up in the foothills and he carried one around on his shoulder, and I think that was from when he worked up in the hills where he said, "Come on up and I'll show you kids how to sail." This is Carl Yubner. He ran a blacksmith shop in downtown Vallejo. Arthur Lee Allen came by frequently. He came down to the Vallejo and came in at the shop and said, "Why don't you bring several times in fact? Why don't you bring the kids up and I'll teach him this sailing?" And I said to him, "I'm like, "I gotta do that sometime." But we never did and I found out he was canned anyway and that ended that. I never did go up there. We also talked with Mark Yubner, Carl's son. At the time he was just a kid. When I heard that story, my first reaction was he certainly wouldn't mess with the kids of a friend of his. I'd be surprised. I knew Arthur Lee Allen in school. He was, I have a grade behind me but we knew each other and and later on he would come in the shop and slowly work on his car. So we did blacksmith work. We made things like gates, railings and we'd weld something up for him. Lee Allen at a time worked at his hardware down a half a dozen blocks in the shop on Tennessee Street. Eventually, Mark and Carl started interviewing each other and Mark had a lot of questions for his dad. What about when he had the rear end done? Well, yeah. Well, it was one incident. You had to, you know what a rear end is on the car and the old car, they're pretty heavy. So we did some work on it. He came and picked it up and he just grabbed it and put it up over his head and walked out and one of the guys kind of shook his head. Not the heck, you know, but I don't think it was that so much that he was so strong that it was just odd that he did it that way but most guys wouldn't do that but he was pretty strong guy. He came in one time and said, hey, I have this letter. He just said that he was no longer suspect in the zodiac case. I was thinking about this earlier. So like when he came in with the letter, was he just saying here's the letter? I'm exonerated. It was like Carl, trust me, man. This isn't me. I mean, I'm wondering how if he was emphatic at all or just blase about that. No, he was, he was just, I wouldn't say blase but he just came in and said, hey, I got some of the show here or whatever he said. And then here's the letter from the Sonoma County Sheriff that says that I'm not a suspect or whatever the wording was that I'm not a suspect anymore. Because I think you also told me once that he needed that letter because he kind of couldn't get a job. He had to have that letter so he could go apply for a job. He did have to show the letter but he did. If it ever came up and said, hey, look, I think a lot of people were a little bit leery of him probably after that. As far as I know, he did not have a girlfriend. He never mentioned it and never seen him with one. He was kind of a loner and not his suspect. I don't want to describe him as a loner but I don't know. But he did have friends, I guess. I never really seen him with anybody. He was always by himself. But let me just, I'm curious. So like if you saw his name in the paper or saw his name in the news, well, what did you think? Like, hey, that's my friend. Did you? Yeah, we weren't qualified a friend. We weren't buddies. I knew from school and a little bit after school and we were, yeah, we were friendly on good terms. And did you ever think he did it? It ran through my mind, of course, yeah. Yeah, it was just weird to think that I knew the guy as a kid. I knew my dad knew him. It's one of those things that I would love to know what the real answer is. I would love to know if it was him. I've seen other suspects name but obviously the only one that is in my head is Lialean. I certainly believe he could have been. I mean, again, I didn't know him like my dad but just all the stuff I've read and seen about him. It seems plausible. I'd say that it certainly seems plausible that he could have been the guy. Test it. Trust it. Drive it. It can take it. The 2026 Nissan Rogue built for all the noisy, crazy, happy chaos you can throw at it. Nissan Rogue, number one, a new vehicle quality among compact SUVs. For JD Power 2026 USIQS award information visit JD Power.com/ awards awards based on 26 model year. I'm Melissa Jeltson and in my new podcast, what happened to her? I'm bringing you new stories and conversations every week. Stories about women whose deaths were too quickly ruled a suicide. Stories of survival. With a woman failed by a system that didn't believe her, that didn't protect her, that didn't see her. And we were babies. Listen to what happened to her on the iHeartRadio app Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast. 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And how nice they were, or if we tip them or not, come and find out. Sometimes we'll talk about that weird news story from last week. It's the one you're thinking about. Trust me. Or maybe we'll talk about music and what's happening in the underground or drama music or TV shows or the Med Gala and what the actors wore. What we're saying is we're not afraid to talk about everything under the sun. And if you want to see what that's like, come join us. It's a place where everyone can hang out, anyone, wherever you're from, whatever you're like, you're welcome. Listen out of character from Will Ferrell's big money players network. On the iHeart Radio app, Apple Pods, or wherever you get your podcasts. In December of 1990, another individual from Arthur Lee Allen's past, another person who he had a falling out with, came forward and claimed that shortly before the zodiac murdered cab driver Paul Stein, Arthur Lee Allen had professed his desire to kill a cab driver and claimed that he was the zodiac. This was Ralph Spinelli, who was a career criminal. He had been arrested for several charges of armed robbery and was probably facing the rest of his life in prison. And he approached authorities asking to make a deal. He didn't want to go to prison in an exchange, he would name Allen as the zodiac. By the time Spinelli came forward, the Grace Smith book had been out for years. Allen's involvement in the zodiac case was now public. And with this new testimony pointing in Allen, investigators once again took him seriously as a [BLANK_AUDIO] aspect. The Valeo Police Department relaunched their investigation of Arthur Lee Allen in 1991. The Valeo Police Department consulted the FBI and a profiler told them that if Allen was indeed a zodiac, it was likely he still had some trophies or belongings from the victims and the crimes. They got another search warrant for his home and the news broke into media. Here's a partial list of what police found in Allen's home in 1991. Four pipe bombs, a Ruger 22 caliber revolver, a zodiac brand watch, news clippings about the zodiac case, a large hunting knife, a small flashlight, a royal manual typewriter. This typewriter had an important connection. The letters claiming responsibility for the murder of Sherry Joe Bates were made by a royal model typewriter. There were some things the police were able to determine at this point. Allen's shoe size matched the zodiac's boot print from Lake Berriessa. Both used large knives and both used the same guns and the same type of ammunition. Allen's home was searched several more times after this and they found even more suspicious objects, but they never found anything that directly linked him to the zodiac murders. For the third time, Arthur Lee Allen was exonerated. At least officially. Well, good cops have instincts and when Toskey talked to Allen, he creeped him out. You know, he thought he had a live one. That counts for a lot in investigation. This is San Francisco Chronicle journalist, Kevin Fagan. He's the current reporter assigned to the zodiac case. As part of that role, he's talked with all the lead investigators and journalists involved in this story and he knows more about the prime suspect than just about anybody else. We went to Kevin Fagan to understand what investigators finally concluded about Allen. Everyone who went to that house came away feeling, wow, this might well be the guy. He was a little shaky in his denials that he was the zodiac. He was eager to talk a lot. This is the Vallejo man. Many investigators considered to be the notorious zodiac killer and this is the first time his picture has been revealed. His name is Arthur Lee Allen. Are you the zodiac killer? There would be nothing farther from my mind. No, I'm certainly most certainly not the zodiac killer. He just came off like a possible guy. You get a tingle and that's what I heard from everyone who talked to him back in the day. Allen has been the only one named directly as a suspect by any of the investigators and he cropped up through Dave Toskey who was the main homicide inspector in San Francisco who was working the case actively during the height of the zodiac craze. He kept going back to Allen year after year after year but he's been the guy for a lot of investigators. There's so many lies I caught him in it so his denying things didn't have any relevance anymore. That was Vallejo PD Captain Roy Conway talking about Allen. Vallejo PD Detective George Bowert also spoke about Allen's guilt. I feel that there are so many areas that point directly at Arthur Lee Allen that I feel that he is a viable suspect in an all probability the zodiac. Allen had a lot of aspects that tied him to the crime. He owned boots identical to those worn by the zodiac according to the prints taken at the scenes. His favorite short story was the most dangerous game and the zodiac and one of his letters talked about how he loved to hunt humans because they're the most dangerous game. It wasn't that obscure a story at the time but it wasn't on everyone's mind. The fact that Allen mentioned that and the fact that that got mentioned in the letter raises your eyebrows pretty high. It was picked out in a photo lineup by one of the victims and he wore a watch that had zodiac crosshairs on it. A lot of things matched. He looked like the sketch and remember investigators also had the testimony of Don Cheney an old friend of Allen's. Yeah Cheney had conversations with Allen that disturbed him. He thought Allen was making statements that that fingered himself as the zodiac. Now I have to say that there are quite a few people who have gone to the police with similar accounts on different people. So yeah just have to throw it into the mix and make which you can make of it. Allen later retold his story about killing chickens during the Lake Berriessa attack. On this occasion he told Toski he kept large bloody knives in his trunk. Bloody knives in the trunk. Yeah that that just came off creepy. You start building up things like that and the boots and the watch that he had and the statements to his friend. It stacks up pretty high. There was enough there that my colleague at the Chronicle Robert Christmas wrote a whole book naming Allen as the guy. As far as I can tell Allen seems to be the best suspect that come up with. And the last time I talked to Robert which wasn't that long ago he was convinced that Allen was still the zodiac. It's one of those things that you know until it's over it's never over but a lot of a lot of things point to this guy. The fact that he was never charged, ever convicted, leaves it an open question. He seemed to have a somewhat sad life. He was hounded by people who thought he was this killer. At least that's how he put it. He didn't like being named. He didn't like getting the visits from police. Not the only way the heat will stop is if I die that'll cure it for me or if there's the zodiac himself confesses. Yeah it's difficult to say. If he really was the zodiac then he deserved all the attention he got. If he wasn't then that's unfortunate because even a criminal should have a chance to rehab his life and move on. I don't know. I never met Allen. The people I know who did that. He was disturbing. A low life. Not a good guy. My impression is he did not live a joyous life leading up to his death in 1992. He had this cloud over him the whole time. I'm not the damn zodiac. The zodiac killer or victim of years of police harassment Arthur Lee Allen took the answer to his grave. Next time on monster the zodiac killer. There's some serious, serious problems with Don Cheney and his credibility and he's the foundation for all of us. The zodiac writing was very quickly and rapidly written and that was of the opinion that it was the natural writing of that person and there were numerous consistent differences with the writing of Arthur Lee Allen. The idea that Michael Micheal could have accurately identified anyone was questionable even in 1969. So much so that Ed Rust actually wrote that into the report. In my mind, you know, Arthur Lee Allen at six foot five, two hundred and fifty plus pounds that walked up to the car. Michael Micheal would have said this guy was huge or something along that line. It's got to be a really terrible place to be to know that there's a book out there that claims you're the zodiac and people believe it. I've never been known for good luck. I guess this is pretty much living proof of it. I couldn't murder anyone. Monster The Zodiac Killer is a 15 episode podcast produced by iHeartRadio, How Stuff Works, and Tinder Foot TV. Donald Albright and I are executive producers on behalf of Tinder Foot TV alongside producers Meredith Stebman, Mason Lindsay, and Christina Dana. Jason Hoek is executive producer on behalf of How Stuff Works. Along with producers Trevor Young, Miranda Hawkins, Ben Kieberk, and Josh Thane. Scott Benjamin provides additional voice telling. Matt Frederick is our host. Original music is by makeup and vanity set. If you haven't already, make sure to check out the first season of Monster called Atlanta Monster about the Atlanta child murders from the late 70s to the early 80s. Download the 10 episode season right now. Have questions or comments? Email us at [email protected] or you can call us at 1-833-285-6667. Thanks for listening. 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