The Primal Decade - Episode 5: Where Do I Put My Power?

(upbeat music) Welcome to the Lead From Transformation Podcast. We are a leadership equipping organization that exists to see thousands of leaders leading transformations because they are leading from their own transformation. You've joined us for a special series called the Primal Decade. In this series, we're exploring what we call the prime, get to know yourself decade. The years barked by both challenge and invitation. Together, we'll impact the root work that helps us live and lead from a non-anxious, risk-taking and spiritually deep place as we move into the decades ahead. Over these next episodes, LFT Co-Founder John Hand and myself, Kirsta Rafale, will sit down with different guests to hear their stories, the inner work they've done to discover who they are and the encouragement they have for those walking through their own Primal Decade. This series is for you if you're entering your 30s in your 30s or leading those who are. Welcome to the Primal Decade. (upbeat music) Welcome to Primal Decade podcast episode five. If episode four was about discovering your power, episode five asked the next big question, where do I put that power? The mid to late 30s are a prime season for honing your sense of vocation, your calling. By the end of the decade, you can find clarity around your most impactful gifts and the people in places where those gifts make the greatest difference. And the space where joy and flow most naturally happen. In this episode, we'll explore how your story, your personality, your power, your passions, conspire together to create a vocational clarity that can propel you in your 40s decade with profound impact and purpose. Well, welcome back to another episode of our Primal Decade podcast. I'm so excited to be with Amanda and John today as we explore a little bit deeper into what is it look like to explore your power and unpack why the 30s is such a great and helpful zone to wake up to a fuller realization of the power that we've been given and how we use our powers in the most skillful ways to bear fruit and bring great joy in the process. Welcome, John and Amanda. Amanda, it's so exciting. John, I've been doing this for like four episodes now but it's always so exciting when you get to bring new people on, so welcome. Yeah, thank you for having me, I really appreciate it. - I'm so curious, Amanda, like, who are you? - Who am I? (laughs) My name is Amanda, like many other people my age. And I work and live in Hamilton, Ontario. I'm 37. I have three kids, two boys and a girl. And I work part time for a Christian nonprofit organization that offers spiritual, kind of like chaplaincy, conversations, face, safety, to look into what Christianity means. So yeah, that's a little snippet of who I am. - Great. Amanda, if you could pick one song that kind of encapsulates your 30s or has been a friend to you through this decade thus far, what would you pick? - So, "Stand Alive" by the Bee Gees. (laughs) - I'm not survival. - That's right. (laughs) Every day, just try to get through. There's a lot of, there's a lot of pressures, right? So it's like partly funny, but it's partly true too. Like, you got to lower your expectations to survival some days. - I love that we're throwing it back. I'm a huge like 80s, 90s, kind of music, person, and this is always a part, like I say my favorite song, and John always laughs. So, I appreciate that you're throwing it back. - Let's hear your favorite song. - My favorite song? - Or "Wobble" what song were you thinking for this? - Okay, so I got married, walked down the aisle to Hall and Oats, you make my dreams come true, and John always laughs at me every time. - It's the funny thing. - So I just love that we're throwing it back a little bit. That's right, that's right. - I cannot, like, yeah, this is, it is hilarious to me that, like, our range of exposure to, you know, just multiple generations of music is just so vast. And so I just love that, like, people from different generations are connecting to music that is, like, not their generation. And Hall and Oats, like, it doesn't get more, like, stereotypical 80s than Hall and Oats. - I love it, you love it. I'm just gonna put it, so we're curating some of these songs, I'm gonna put on a playlist for our primal decade podcast. I'm just gonna throw Hall and Oats in there, just, I give 'em not even land with anyone, but we're just gonna do it. It just needs to happen. - Make sure you put your favorite cr- so there's a Christmas album. I didn't even know this. They have a Christmas album, Hall and Oats, so, you have to think this one. - I didn't say Bee Gees 'cause I love Bee Gees. I just thought the message fit. - Just staying, staying in the lives, surviving. - That's great. - Yes. - Okay, bring it back. Amanda, you talked briefly there, and you mentioned that there's a lot of pressures in your 30s. What are some of the pressures that you experience in your 30s that you didn't necessarily experience in your 20s, or just generally are experiencing? - Yeah, I mean parenting is like a huge pressure. - It's a pressure, really? (laughs) Way harder than marriage, I think. 'Cause marriage, you kinda have like two people working hard for the goal, and then parenting is like, "No, they're not working hard at all for the goal. "You have to do all the hard for you, "and all the hard for them." (laughs) - That's funny. - So, and then just like the giant loss of freedom, right? It's just such a giant change to what I was used to in my 20s, and kinda come into terms with, doing something you had no idea you were actually committing to doing, right? Your picture of parenting is a whole lot different than the reality of parenting. And it's a good thing, like of course, it can be quite used for good, but it is a shell shock for sure. And I think even being responsible for children, but also growing in responsibility at my job, like I became responsible for other staff and supervising other staff, and now I'm helping to do strategic planning. You know, it affects like everyone in the organization, and so it just, you become a lot more responsible for other people, at least I have in my 30s. - Mm. - Yeah. - So you're kind of bearing it, you're bearing your bearing weight responsibility wise that impacts people far beyond you. - That's right. I can make a lot of choices in my 20s that would only affect me, you know? But not anymore. Now every decision I make affects lots of people. - How long have you been married? - I've been married 11 years, be 12 this summer. - Okay. - So yeah. - Well, and even that too, right? Like your choices as single Amanda, even before kids now are directly impacting this other person in your marriage, and then you compound that with children. - Mm-hmm, yeah. That's right. - Yeah. - Are there any other-- - It's a rough ride. - It's a rough ride. I mean, my 30s, my 30s was a rough ride. It was a beautiful, it was a, was a, C.S. Lewis has a book called The Hittiest Strength. That, I felt like that was my 30s. It's like Hittiest, and something was, you know, being rooted or born in strength and growing in me, where I was like at the same time. This, I hate this. I'm being pulled in so many thousands of different directions and I can't even keep up. And like something about the exhilaration of all of this newness and new everything, responsibility, parenting, marriage, et cetera, was also like exhilarating and, yeah, strong. - You kind of like have to fight the lie that if it's hard, then it's bad, right? - Yeah. - And I think in your 30s, there's so much hard that is good, you know? Maybe for athlete, you learn that early, but like, you know, like for the rest of us, we're all just trying to like realize those are not opposite things, you know, they can be the same. - Yeah, and you might not see the good right away, right? I feel like parenting, it's like, you're guiding and you're like, oh man, like this is a rough time. My kids are so small, like I'm just at the beginning, so I know there's hope. But what you continue to do every day, like you don't see the good necessarily right away. And in your job too, like the decisions that you make, but knowing you're playing a long game, which I think is something that feels much more real in my 30s than it did in my 20s. - Yeah, I think like the view of time really changes in your 30s. What you're saying, you know, your view, you're like, oh, wait a second, I actually have like a whole life that is like four times what I've already lived, and I can't even understand that, but you can like start to get it logically, you know? And I think when you do things like kids or careers, they take so long, but then when you think about it, actually it wasn't that long, it was like, oh, that was only five years, like a small amount. - Right, it's a blip. - You have life, you know? - Right, yeah. I also think, like I remember in my 30s thinking, I remember being in rooms. especially in my mid and late thirties and being like, I'm not a kid anymore, or I remember leading things and thinking, don't they know I'm barely an adult? Don't they know this? Why would they put me in charge? Like, why did they give me the keys here? And they're looking at me like I know what I'm doing, but like, I don't know what I'm doing. And I felt like I had to, I felt like I was, I had this tension internally and externally. Internally, I was like, I have no idea what I'm doing. And externally, I've got this, you know? - That's right. - Like, can you, does that relate? - Yeah, yeah. There's something that, you know, my husband, I were just talking about this the other day that I have this tendency to like put forth this polished version of myself. I'm learning how to not do it in some spaces, you know, but it's a long way to go. And so that's exactly it. In leadership, it actually feels even harder to not put out a polished version of yourself. Who knows everything and has, you know, everything planned and everything in mind. Because that's even kind of how our culture's view of a leader is, that like, we're gonna follow them 'cause they know what they're doing. And so it just makes it even harder to not, you know, feel that internal gap because none of the leaders actually know what they're doing. That's what I've learned from becoming a leader and hanging out with leaders. Actually, we know a lot, but we don't know everything we, it looks like it, you know? - Yeah, yeah. Is there a, is there a, like I, so I've heard different angles on this that there's like a, I don't know, a gender dynamic to this that like men and women do this differently in their thirties? Does, have you heard any, like, have you had any conversations around that? Like with this, or this idea of like faking it until you make it kind of thing. - Yeah. - Where the stereotype is that men will be like, you know, I can do that when they have like, they're not, they don't have the skills to do it, but they'll put their hand up. But women are more like, maybe I don't know, resistant to putting their hand up to do something that they don't feel like they can do. - Yeah, I will, I remember reading about hiring. So I have to like hire people and they said, most men will apply for jobs that they're 80% qualified for and men will only apply, or women will only apply for jobs they're 100% qualified for. And I remember telling someone one of my friends she was applying for this high manager in charge position. She said, I'm not fully qualified for this. He said, well, just so you know, I read this stat, all the men who are applying won't be either. (laughs) You're probably in good company. (laughs) - Take comfort. - I'm so funny. I think also, I don't wanna, maybe this is my experience. I don't wanna stereotype too much. But in our family, I'm a default parent. And so that load of a lot of that comes to me. And, you know, dad could be sitting right there, but they're gonna call mom. And so that's just the way it works in our house. So sometimes I just, I'm like, I don't have the energy to pretend that I have it all together tonight. (laughs) Because there's a lot of other things going on. I don't know if that's true for you at all, Amanda, but I just feel like that is something that happens in our household because it's chaos most of the time. And sometimes I just can't pretend it's not chaos. - Yeah, oh, I absolutely relate to it. Like the reason that I reached out to John to coach me in the first place was because I was like, I am at my limit of parenting. I'm actually beyond my limits. And I need to like find some other tools to help me because I can't. Like, there's nothing I think like parenting to show you where your limits are. And you kind of have to figure what you're gonna do about it. Like, are you gonna just, you know, quit? Or are you gonna just find some other way to do it? Or are you gonna ask for help, right? Because I think that every single person finds their limit, especially the default parent, finds their limit quickly in parenting. - Yeah. - Yes, that was our experience in different ways. But Amy and I both kind of hit the wall separately in our early 30s, early to mid 30s on that very point of like the resources that I had in my 20s that worked in my 20s to navigate life. And to find my way through, they have like stopped working. And it's like, what do you do when you don't know what to do and what you know to do isn't working? And now you have things in that show up and you that you can't control or, you know, like mine was anger, like why am I so angry? And why is it like so deep and I don't know what to do with it and where did it come from, you know? And it's like, or why can't I stop working? Like why am I so driven? And I can't just chill out and relax. It's like, I can't explain it. But it's because like I'm the coping mechanisms are like winding down as you like hit the pressures of your 30s. - Yeah, yeah, I find it so fascinating. So Amanda, through your work with John, you have come to experience some of your powers and your superpowers. So John, before we dive in, can you just, when we say power, what do we mean in the context of this podcast? - Yeah, in the context of the podcast, it's really like, I think our powers, so when I say power, it's not this kind of, we talk a lot in our culture, especially like, through COVID about our power and like more like our privilege and whatnot. And this is not using it that way. This is more like our powers are like an alloy of the abilities that we have naturally or the experience or the expertise that happens to us because of our experience. So I always say, we are an expert in our experience if we're paying attention. Like our experience gives us something and it equips us with capacities and abilities. We start to see things in the world because of our experience where we don't see things in the world because of our experience. And so I think the journey in our 30s is like to notice these abilities and this power and then use it on purpose and to kind of hone it and get really good at like noticing when I do X, Y or Z, this happens where people tell me this happens and it's like pay attention to that because we're too close to ourselves to notice the power that we have. And oftentimes if we are really gifted with a power which I believe we all have at least one, then we don't even know what we're using the power when we have it, it's like breathing. It's like, did you just notice you were breathing? No, I didn't because I'm breathing. Right, same with like when we're using our power. And so I think in my own experience, I have, so my story is such that I grew up as a coping strategy for being always the new kid. I had to learn really quickly what how people think and what motivates them so that I could like break in to a social group and like have friends 'cause I'm like a crazy extrovert. And so I became the student of people at a young age, okay, what makes them tick and what do they talk about and what are their interests and what motivates them and why do they, why are they the way they are and why do they do things the way they do things. And because of that, I developed this curiosity too where I'd like ask questions. So fast forward, I'm in my 30s. I have this kind of radar for people and what kind of makes them tick 'cause I've been studying them my whole life by survival sake, then I'm really curious. So in my 30s, I'm asking people, these like really profound, deep questions that are like blowing them away and making them feel really exposed. And I didn't know I was doing it. And so what makes me a good coach is I can like ask really insightful kind of surgical questions, but in a coaching relationship, it makes sense. When you're not in a coaching relationship and you're at a party and you're drinking a beer and you're just asking these like really kind of deep questions, people are like, what do you know? Why did you ask me that? And like I would freak people out and I didn't mean to because I had developed a superpower and I didn't know I had it. And so I had to figure out, oh, I have this ability and this curiosity and this insight, but I have to like turn that off. It comes with an off switch and then I can only turn it on in certain situations versus turning it on all the time because it was not helpful. So that's what I mean by like power. Yeah. So when you hear that, what is that? What comes to you and you hear power describe that way? - What comes to me? Well, when you ask me like, what is my power? It makes me think, basically what you said. Like what comes next? naturally what am I doing even if I what do I have to like intentionally stop myself from doing or else I'm gonna do it all the time? What what am I willing to sacrifice to do more of it? Yes yes yes makes me feel like joy and energy while I'm doing it what even gets me in trouble with people because I've done it again you know and I like it kind of is like your best and your worst at the same time you know kind of like what you're saying job it find it's like oh what is this thing that people keep saying about me or saying to me as feedback what's the pattern it's often like these things right it's like these unhoned superpowers yes and you think about like you know Luke Skywalker learning to use the lightsaber and the force and like how clunky it was and I think this is I think this is the process it's like we have to learn how to use these powers and they are very clunky at first especially when we're waking up to what they are and and and then I have to like learn to use them skillfully and and know that they come with a shadow and if I don't know the shadow then this power this is the difference now I'm nerding out this is the difference between like a villain in a in a superhero a superhero will learn what their power is and then they learn to use it skillfully they turn it on and turn it off this the villain they bond with their power so they bond with the shadow and the strength and if they don't if they don't separate from it appropriately it takes over yeah that makes sense yeah because villains are really good at certain things they're amazing yeah but they've given themselves over to all of their power so now their power controls them as a boy mom we live in Marvel a lot in this world and the frequent question is always like well why why did they just stop and like it's interesting in light of this conversation it's like you don't really think about that until you like go a little deeper and that's what happened in conversation but when that's all encompassing you hit that block a lot faster because you can't see the other side of it right so fascinating so you know Amanda over the years we've been coaching you know five years so we've been coaching for five years and I have seen you in the in that five years develop a heightened awareness of your power I've seen you hone your power I've seen you cultivate it and deepen it I've also seen you expand other capacities that you had say not related to your job just parts that were like in you just just powers abilities you know that were in you to create and be creative to like write songs now to write a book like to you know to write music like these are things I think you had a podcast at one time like these are these are things that like when I first encountered you you didn't even know those were there or what to do with them and then five years later you're like honing them and offering them to the world and you're getting promoted at work and now you're now you're being invited to high-level leadership you know to contribute to the high-level leadership kind of culture creation of your organization it's like wow that's like in five years too like it's not a long time but you've just been really working at this and developing it and honing it and it's it's just been fun to watch thanks yeah it's it's a bit of a whirlwind I was saying to a husband the other day you know the things that I'm kind of known for at my work like what kind of leader I am is baffles me like I was like the care person I'm like the person who is making sure that staff are cared for and that's just blows my mind because if you I'm not like the warmest person like I can be warm but if you were to have told me five years ago you're gonna be like the person in charge of care like I wouldn't believe you like no one would put me in charge that you know but it's like there's like spaces of you that gets unlocked when you know you can yeah hone some of these superpowers and it actually lets you like let go of other stuff and then it gives space for other things to grow yeah we talked about that last episode what you have to let go of to make space for the like the false things or the less things that you've been over invested in maybe you have to let go of and then you go into this identity crisis zone of like what am I now if I'm not that you know and then and then it comes to you but you have to be willing to go into that kind of unknown zone to find then what is the more line to truest power yeah and you also need to find other people that are good at things you're not good at like that to me has been the most the best thing for my leadership is to say I don't have to be good at everything but you can find people who are good at things that you're not good at and it's like the most freeing thing and it empowers others and it's so much less exhausting for you to have to do all these things that take so much effort and it's transformational like it changes whole spaces and cultures when you start doing that kind of thing you guys have team leadership I can tell you know it's like the best I think you know if you can create a good team it's the best it is it is we talked about this like last episode too but you know figuring out like what you have been doing or have been told to do and then figure out like is that really what I want to do but also I think all of us on our team feel really really empowered I know we all do to create a different culture where people are living into their green zone which is like what brings you joy power and fruit because we've been in situations where that has not happened and it's crazy what happens like you actually want to be on that team it's why shock it actually stop the presses you actually want to be on that team imagine imagine yeah just wilds and why are not why is it taking so long for people to catch on to this right well I'm kind of going backward it kind of feels like if you spend all your time team building you won't get anything done but it's actually like the opposite the total opposite that's what that's like my biggest leadership learning this you know and I think it's the challenge between people have a role and then they have their power and they're using their wherever you go like we all have an internal job description we will do that and then we can kind of like try to cram ourselves into a role that might not use all of that or might use a you know a quarter of it or half of it my hope for all of all of those listening would be how amazing if your role could contain like 70% of of your power like that would be ideal I was talking I had dinner with a new friend a couple this last week we were talking about our work and I was able to say I love my work I feel like it's harnessing 78% of who I am and this guy said I've been in the work force for 30 years I've never had a job where I could say what you're saying yeah it's like I feel bad for you bro yeah yeah I mean I'm curious as you've done this work like how did you figure out what those powers were for you I think a few ways one I really like development opportunities so kind of coaching you know like I did the grip Berkman which some people know it's a what do you well you guys are probably actually no more about it but it's like this behavioral personality kind of space tool and so in order for so it was done with me through my work which I found super helpful to have vocabulary to explain ways that I act already and then I got I went to a course that I could actually coach people on it and of course during that kind of training you get coached on it more and right and so then you're faced with is this who you are are these words describing you and if so like what does that mean the person coach me was like so this is like your top gift and I was like I don't think it is because I don't do that and so I keep doing these like personality things you know any gram and strength finders and you know and you start to like see patterns and of course these things are perfect they'll have their downsides but I just think it really helped me have permission to take on some words that actually did fit and but I think like that alone isn't enough I actually think what's made the biggest difference is the reflection on it. So if I were to have just read it all, I wouldn't have gotten all that. I needed someone to sit with me and say, "What does this mean for you in your life?" And I have to go, "Yeah, what does that mean for me? What does that mean for how I spend my time?" Right? And so this happened in multiple ways, right? I had, you know, this coaching program, the Grittburgman Consultation One. I'd later I did a coaching program with Lee from transformation, which is more of this, less personality, but more reflection and reflect on what you're doing. I have John, of course, we've met for five years. So this was like a space. Basically, John just offers a space of reflection, right? And he, you know, gives, asks you hard questions to reflect deeper and deeper. And I actually think you kind of need both. You need the information, but you also need a way to process it all and challenge you to do something with it. Yeah. Yeah, I did the Grittburgman report, and I did it, but then never sat with anyone to do so over it. And when I did, I was like, "Oh, this is what this 30-something page report actually means about me." Yeah. And it actually just was not words on a page anymore, but like, okay, how do I actually incorporate this into what I'm doing and discovering more about what brings me joy? Yeah. And I think the other way, so that's kind of like that head knowledge space, like your own space. Then you also like learn about yourself in the field, right? Like when you're interacting with people or you're working or you're chatting to your neighbors or whatever, you know, it's like, what am I, what am I doing that people react to? Like when people, whoa, I've never heard someone say that before or, wow, you're really good at that, or one big one for me too is like, what are you annoyed that not everyone else is doing? Why aren't people doing this? Oh, because people can't do it, but I have to learn, you know, you have to learn that. But I, you kind of think when you're really good at stuff, that everyone else should be good at it too. 100%. And when I do coaching on this stuff, like find and focus your superpower kind of coaching, one of the questions is, is that question, when you look around the world, what do you find yourself saying again and again, nobody gets it or there's too much of this, you know, and you find it's a complaint, it's a lament, but it's also an indicator that you have been shaped to see something that others are not seeing, pay attention to that. Like there's a, there's a hidden gem there of your capacity that you didn't even know was there. And because we're so close to our life, we can't even see it until others are like, you always say, like, how come no one's caring for the people around here? Like you're, you are always bringing this up. And then, and then they're like, oh, well, go in your story. And that's that's my experience. Like it is our powers come from our story. And then again, there's like a divine mystery in this too, right? It's like, how does it work? Nature, nurture, I have no idea. But if you have this ability here, just go mind your story and you will find, you will find it likely where it started. Yeah. Because some of these things you have to learn to survive, right? Like, you have to get rid of it, right? You know, I find like a lot of skills are based that way. You know, like I had to learn how to do this because no one else was doing it. But I think there's also a difference between skills and like superpowers, right? Like the skills, I've learned how to do it because I have to, not because I love it, right? Sometimes it's both, but it's not always both. And I think like figuring out which one is really bringing you joy and energy is like, that's going to be your power, not the one that you've just learned how to do really well because you had to, right? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I'm curious, Amanda, what your superpowers are? Like, what do you now that you've sat in it? Like what do you think those are? Yeah. So I've thought about it. I don't have a great vocabulary for it yet. But maybe John, well, maybe John can help. He has a bit of a higher vision of my life since he gets these, you know. God and I love you and we have a wonderful plan for your life. Well, plan for your life. But there's something that there's some kind of super power in that I can see things. So I can see past people's masks often. So for example, I remember I had this friend, we were very close friends and he said to me, I put out this kind of mask to the world and it's never tricked you. He said, you kind of like see past it. And I remember thinking, well, yeah, that happens all the time. You know, like, I always see past the things people are trying to like be charming or schmoozy about. To me, like, it's never, it doesn't, like, of course, I get tricked sometimes. But like most of the time, that kind of thing doesn't get me. And so I can like see past maybe it's because I'm, I've always done this. I've been like this polished version of myself that I know there's so much more going on underneath. So I just like look for it, you know, okay, you've put that out. But like, what else is going on? And then there's also something that I'm able to do where I remember things that you tell me and I can like connect them to other things that happen. So I don't, again, I don't have very good vocabulary for it. But for example, my son came home last week and he was, it was Jersey Day. And he, I said, how is Jersey Day? And he just started crying. And I was like, oh, okay, it was an emotional Jersey Day. And he said, three people told me that like the guy on my Jersey sucks and he hated that. And he was very upset. Though, you know, he cried and they, you know, held him in such. And then I was just thinking while I was holding him, you know, like two weeks ago, we were doing this little journal exercise, like what superhero would you want? Like super power would you want? And he said invisibility. And I remembered in that moment, I thought. And I said to him, you know, you said the other week, you would love to be invisible. I bet you felt really visible today. And yeah. And I said, and it's like, there's something in that. I don't know how to describe it. But I can like, remember other things that connect to situations. I don't know, do you have a good way to describe that? The way I talk about that is that you have a, well, you're using it in this context. You tell me if it's broader, but you have a relational memory. So your ability to, to integrate, to take from X thing over here that happened. And then see how that is related to something over, you know, over here that happened that seems to be in a different compartment or on the other side of something. And that you can see the relationship between those two. Yeah. It's an integration thing. I think you're right about that. Because it's not just relational. This is the same thing that happens with, you know, when I'm doing strategic planning for my portion that I'm overseeing the organization. So I hope we want to do this. Okay. Well, that's going to affect all of these things. So you have to like take this into consideration. There's some kind of, yeah, view of integration. How things affect each other. So if you look into your story, do you see anything back there that would have trained you at a young age to notice the relationship between different things and how they affect? You know, the bearing that they bring onto a present situation. Yeah. I mean, I think that any family is going to be like an ecosystem, right? Like we're one thing affects everything in some kind of way. And there I had a particular tumultuous couple years where things were unpredictable. And I think I probably honed that skill quite a bit to like take in information. How is this going to affect this? And how is this going to affect this? And even after that, my mom was a single mom, so she worked quite a bit. And so there were a lot of responsibilities that needed to be done. And I was the oldest of four. So a lot of those responsibilities felt to me. And I think that I took on whether, you know, she wanted me to or not to like take a view of the family. What does the family need to do? And what does it need to get done and figure out how to get it done? Right. And so, you know, if this person had, you know, this child had to get to school at this time and this person had banned practice and mom was at work, well, then I had to figure out how to do it. Right. So I think probably that has made a big difference. And I wonder if that plays in, too, to this like this ability that you see to see when people are not being considered or cared for? Yeah. Yeah, probably. Yeah. I've always, yeah. I do want people to feel cared for. And I don't think I've been very good at it for a long time. It's always kind of been like a heart desire, but maybe like my actions haven't been as good at it as showing you. my care for people. But I've always felt like a very deep care for people, you know, in general, but also like the people in my life. Yeah. I've had to learn how to do it. There's people who care through systems and there's people who care through direct caring. It doesn't mean that the systems people aren't caring. It just means that they're caring. The way that they care is they want to create a system where everybody is cared for. Yeah. Yeah. And I think I'm more like that. Well, I guess I could be a bit of both. But I think that the one-on-one caring takes a lot more energy for me than to come up with a system to make sure people are taken care of. And I think stages too, right? Like capacity and stage before you're at. Like how you can outwardly show those superpowers might be different in those different stages and capacities that you have. So it could manifest in the systems and then in another season, it could be outwardly caring. But the superpower is still there. I mean, because I have to like outwardly care for kids all the time, right? It kind of like gets used up. Yeah. When I was in my 30s, I remember, I remember one day someone was like, how are you? I'm like, you want to how I am? I feel like everybody brings like a vacuum cleaner and plugs it into me. And they just suck the life out of me. Like they're doing it at work. They're doing it. My kids are doing it. They just plug in and they just take and take and take. And I'm like, you know what? I am got nothing. I am empty. Because of that drain, you're just being pulled in so many different directions. Yeah. I wrote this little like one line poem once and it's exactly about that. And it's like they take and take till they're enough left of me. And then they don't even notice that I'm gone. And it's like this like awful kind of feeling. But like that's kind of how it feels, you know, when there's like, you know, if that's not even accurate, because what they do notice and they want more, you know, like it's just, it's very, but I've learned, you know, you actually don't have enough for everything they need. You don't have enough. There isn't enough in you to give everyone what they want. And that's like part of their learning. Well, it's part of your learning too. Yeah. I mean, have you always believed that about yourself? No. Yeah. I totally thought it was supposed to be enough for everyone, especially my kids, you know, yeah. What helps you to stay in that zone of being like, I'm not going to be enough. And so I'm going to continue pursuing, you know, the superpowers that I have, the abilities that I have. Um, what helps me stay? Well, you know, when you say it out loud, you kind of like, no, it's ridiculous. That's what I think helps me the most is like when I, I can think all kinds of crazy things that sound very reasonable. But when I like sit and talk to my husband about it or my friend or John or whoever, whoever, you know, gets lucky. Um, I, you say things out loud and all of a sudden, you're like, oh, that's actually a crazy thing to believe that I would be enough for all these humans, you know, like it, there's something in it though. If you write it or if you say it, it changes your view on it enough that you can see. Um, I mean, I also, I'm a person who prays. So like I will ask God to remind me and God reminds me all the time that I'm not meant to be all things to all people because God is and I'm not God. Um, and I such a relief in that. Yeah. But then I forget like the next day or the next hour, you know, and then I have to your mind to begin. But it's good intentions. That's the tricky bit is like you can have good intentions with something that's wrong, you know, and it's still wrong and it's actually better for you if you don't. And it's kind of like this painful process to let go of. But I would not say I've like mastered it as for sure. Yeah. Do we ever master it? I'm still believing that one day I will master things. That's that's such an anagram three thing to say. It's like, of course, I will master. Of course, I will get that. That's right. Yeah. So and in that spirit though, like so when when we discover our power and we use them, it makes good things happen and it makes when we're when we're in the right fit culturally, like say with our work, it makes good things happen and people notice that. And then it makes people happy. And then you know, one of the laws of all things is people give you more to do when you're successful with the things that you've done. So as you've seen yourself grow and you've been given more opportunity, how do you keep yourself in your lane of of your superpower so that you don't stray too far with the things that they want you to do that aren't that aren't in that, you know, zone for you. Yeah. Um, you have to say no to a lot of things. A lot of good fun things. That's what I've learned. Like, I think, you know, I had this experience in my 20s where I ran this student franchise, you know, you guys have probably seen them. They run them with university students. And the biggest gift of it is that you get a coach weekly for the whole time you do it. So for four years, I had a coach that mentored me weekly on things like time management, priority management. Goal setting, all these things. And so I think that that I've realized was like such a huge blessing when it comes to running your life. Um, and so things like priority management is just second nature to me now where I have learned that's not the case for everyone, you know. And so when I get offered something that, you know, or there's an experience that I want to do, my first reaction is like, if it's fun or if it's like thrilling, I want to do it. Or if I'm going to like learn something new, I want to do it. Like I love doing new stuff, especially stuff that's kind of hard that kind of stretches me. Love it. But I like come back to like my priority management. What are my priorities? How realistic is this? Can it wait, you know, the view of time I used to think I have to it now because I'll never get another, you know, time to do it. And I think actually that's not the case, you know, like I have tons of time in theory in my life. Um, to do all kinds of leadership programs or whatever programs or write a novel, you know, John said, I'm writing a novel and I keep thinking, should I like put a time limit on myself or not, you know, do I need to like push myself and I just keep thinking, I don't actually think I do. Like I will keep doing it. I know I will already have some accountability in place with writing groups and such. Um, but I don't, I don't actually feel like the pressure to get things done, everything done so quickly anymore, you know, have more time to do these things. That's really like adult, too, because you're if we want to reduce anxiety, extend the timeline. So like you're just extending the timeline, which is, which is this you talked about, we talked about in the pre show about aging, that is the gift of aging is that your immediate urgency can be extended out and you can start to see the gift of time. Uh, and then hopefully chill out. Yeah, like things are often not urgent, even when they feel urgent, you know, that's when like giant parenting, you know, thing I've learned through parenting is half the stuff that my brain thinks is urgent, that needs to be handled right down. Like it doesn't. You know, it's actually probably best if I wait 10 minutes and we go back to that situation. You know, oh, man, there was this real that came out because I feel like, you know, we just live in rails now. It's just the reality. We just send them back and forth and it's like this says everything that I feel currently. But there was a really yesterday and I was like, I need to do this, this, this, and then the list just trails off and it's like by 30. And it was like, forget it. I've got tons of time. I can figure it out later. But I feel like getting to that place as I enter the 30s of like, this is what I think I'm going to accomplish by let's say 35 versus like letting that go to just be like, okay, what are my priorities? What can I actually do? There's more time for that. And like, that's not pressure that I'm necessarily putting on myself, but pressure that I feel like the world is putting on me. And so how do you let go of that to just sit in that space? Well, it's a bit relative. Like, I think it actually doesn't take away the pressure. I think it just lowers the pressure. And so I'm actually like a high pressure person way. I expect tons out of myself. I expect tons of out of other people. And so in order to do that, it just brings the, you know, down from 10 to 7. So like, I actually still have lots of pressure on myself. I'm still highly motivated to be productive and efficient and get everything and do all the hobbies and all these things. But it's not at a level that's going to like burn me out anymore. It's like a level that So I don't have to worry though, I guess not getting anything done because that's still going to be like a high motivating situation. And so you kind of have to know yourself as to like doing that kind of thing where you're giving yourself more time. Is it going to take you from a three to a zero? Because then you may have a problem. But it's just taking you from like an eight to a five. That's probably good. But there's other people who are not motivated at all. And then they'll go to zero if they give themselves more time. It's actually not a helpful tool then for them. Yeah. Enter the primal decade. Figuring out who you are. I'm sorry. Yeah. Amanda, if you had to say something to yourself as you are starting your 30s, what would you tell Amanda? Yeah. I think one of the biggest things I've learned is, I don't know, I think this is a millennial thing I've asked a few people. But we have really been taught that effort equals results. And if you put in enough work, you can do anything. And I like in my depths, believe that. I take on crazy projects because I believe with enough effort and the right mentorship, I can do anything. And in some ways, it's great because I try lots of great things. But what I've realized is it actually is not true with relationships. Relationships do effort does not equal results. And I think that I always put those two things together. And so I've heard people are expected so many things out of people because I think, but I've put this effort in, like why wouldn't they respond the way that I think they should? And because it doesn't work like that. People don't work like skills, you know? And I think that I would have like saved myself a lot of apologies if I knew that earlier. Or I would have saved myself a lot of disappointment, you know, thinking that I could somehow control people, even though I didn't think of it like that, like I wasn't trying to be manipulative. It actually kind of is when you treat people like skills. Yeah, I resonate with that. The part of what makes you, part of what makes you good at what you do, you think about you're on the strategy team, which is your ability to see next steps. It's like you can see what is needed and anticipate it. And that forms a picture that is clear to you, but it might not be clear to other people. And I think that vision and strategy capacity is like amazing. And then it comes with the shadow, which is that we can sometimes see things for people that are not there or that they're not ready to see. And we think if we can just come along and like activate it somehow, that they're going to get it when the timing is not right for them or that they would feel like we're putting pressure on them to be something that they can't be or that they don't want to be. I did that a lot in my 30s because I have this like, I could see the future thing, which you know, not always accurately, but accurately enough to convince me that I could see the future. That's right. And then I could see people and then they couldn't see it. And so they would feel like they were being, I was trying to change them and that's a bummer. Yeah. I totally have that. And so I think like, well, don't you want to be your potential? No, people don't. A lot of people don't. Well, it's terrifying. Well, it's terrifying to see. It's terrifying to live into your potential, especially if that's not, if your potential that you see Amanda is not the potential that they see. And so you're seeing something that is a beyond their sense of self. That's terrifying. Because what am I if I'm that? Because I think I'm this, it's like, and then if they're going to grow, they have to release that. If that's not truly who they are or Amanda is wrong. I mean, sometimes I am, I learn that too. Yeah. Yeah. Good vision or whatever. It only, it's not 100% of the time. Yeah. I think my experience with this too is like for people, folks like you who see that future and that potential to just like ask permission or to say like, this is what I see. And then you need to go sit with this and figure out like what do you, what rings true for you in this? Yeah. Has been a huge game changer because I feel like I don't have to like live into that right away. And I can be like, I don't see it. And then maybe, maybe in a year, I'll come back and say, you're right, but I at least could sit in it myself and kind of pick out like what is true of that without the pressure of like, this is what I need to be or this is where I need to get to. Yeah. I think that coaching course was like a game changer for me in, in my ability to actually use my super power in a way that people could receive it. Because before that, I would just tell people and, you know, obviously it goes well sometimes of most of the time people can't handle that kind of bluntness, you know, like. And so I didn't know how to like, I didn't know how to use it well, you know. And I think that the coaching course, like you're saying, the ability to ask questions and help people look inwardly has like, I bet you, if you ask people at my work, what my super power is they'd probably say, ask good questions or whatever. That's why I get asked to do for workshops and such. Which is great. Love it. But that isn't the superpower. It's like the key to it, right? It's like the vehicle for it to actually be able to use it. And so I think that's like a really important part to when people think about what am I really good at? It's like sometimes you actually need to learn other things to help you use it well. You need other skills to like, you know, boost it into a space where it can actually be used well. Because now people can like feel my care. Now people can, you know, help, you know, I can help people see themselves a lot better just through like the coaching skills as the vehicle. It's a, I call it the container. So they can don't confuse the container with your, you know, power, but you put your power in that container, say coaching skills. And then that helps you like share your power in a way that actually works versus a way that blinds people, you know, or overwhelms them. Because when you're, when we have gifts, my premise is that we are, we're really gifted at like one, maybe two things. We can do, I don't know, maybe four or five things. And then we just suck at a whole bunch of stuff. And the quicker we can get to owning the stuff that we suck at and not putting energy, any energy into that, the better. And then it's like this took me, this took me 15 years, once I got to the things that I was good at, I could do to, to spend a decade saying no to those progressively so that I could, while I'm still getting clear on what are, what is the one thing or the two things that I can do really well and just stay there. But I have to eliminate a whole bunch of other things I can do pretty well. And if you're more talented, that's even harder because you can do things really well and people want you to do those things. But to pay attention to like, there are one or two things that you do better than most people, pay attention to those and then hone in on them. Yeah. And often we need people to tell us that we're good at them. And so like we can be those people for other people too, you know, you can say like, oh, I see you doing this or I see. And those things stick with you, you know, like that guy who coached me at the Grip Berkman coaching, I don't even know his name. He probably has no memory of me really, you know, but like his question was, has stuck with me, has like changed, you know, the path of how I view myself. So, you know, people, you can be that for other people because of these things are obvious to us, right? When we look at other people, we think, oh, I know what your powers are. It's this and this, obviously, you know, but it's not so obvious, you know, with their own view. I think it brings great comfort to me as a people pleaser planner type A that it's a process to is what I hear you will say that like you have to figure out as you go, like it's not like, you know, step one, complete step two, but like a whole process of working through it and unpacking, which I think is just such a gift that you're not going to figure it out right away. I'm guessing anything if you haven't figured it out yet, because you have to do that. 100% because you're right on time wherever you are, you're right on time. If there's no such thing as an ideal life, then wherever you are, you're right on time. And so one of the hopes of primal decade is what if you saw your thirties as like a 10 year lab or a process or journey to like getting clear to rooting more deeply so that you are going into your forties with a sense of a real strong sense of this is who I am, is who I'm not. This is what my power is. This is where I use it is where I don't use it. And going into your forties, offering that to where whatever your forties has to offer, you offering it into your forties, it's like, well, there's no rush. You're right on time. It's kind of like when you're teenager and you're like trying all the different passions to like see what it's you, it's like that, but like internally in the 30s, like we don't expect teenagers to know who they are. Like we've given like years and years to figure out like what kind of genes they like or which group they fit into. You know, we also hope they're going to even change their mind once they decide, right? And so like we could, we don't have to like end there, you know, you can, you can keep doing that. So Amanda, maybe it was a pair of genes for you, but what is your most regrettable purchase in your career? That was a great, great transition, by the way. You know, I was thinking about that question because I don't really buy, I don't regret a lot of my purchases to be honest. I was thinking about when I, um, I first started my podcast, I bought this ring light and I turned it on and as soon as I did it, you could like see their rings in my glasses and I was like, this is the worst. Why are people using green lights? I can't use ring lights or glasses and I turned it off and put it like in my drawer and never used it again. So that was, I wish I didn't buy that. Or maybe I just don't like use it right, but yeah, I don't know. That wasn't helpful at all. Instead of a warning, you can only use it if you wear contacts or have no glasses. That's right. Yeah. So honey. Well, I feel like we could talk about primal decade power for hours. Um, but Amanda, thank you for being here. Thank you for sharing with us and being on this journey with us. We appreciate it. Oh, thank you for having me. This is very fun. Thanks Amanda. Thanks for joining this episode of the primal decade series on the lead from Transmission Podcast. If this conversation resonated with you, we'd love for you to like, share or pass it along to someone else in their own primal decade journey. You can explore more at LFTleadership.com, including upcoming primal decade cohorts and a collection of tools and resources to help you do the inner work we talk about here. And shout out to those high capacity leaders who are stepping into new levels of responsibility, especially those in your late 30s. Check out our 40s fallcrumb coaching program on our coaching page designed to help you move into your next decade, even better than you left your 30s. Thanks for listening. We're glad you're here on this journey.