The power of music for babies

[Music] A list-nuff production. [Music] Hi, I'm Emma Watkins. And welcome to. Oh, wait. Hold on a minute. [Music] Hmm, that's not quite right either. [Music] Ah, there we go. [Music] Music is fascinating, isn't it? For centuries, humans have used sound for thousands of different reasons. It connects directly to our soul and to our brains too. And like in the beginning of this episode, we know when it's out of place. Gentlemen, welcome to Fight Club. The first rule of Fight Club is. you do not talk about Fight Club. Music is a powerful tool, and it has equally powerful effects on our brain. Think about the Fight Club scene you just heard, and how the type of music used dramatically affected how we perceived the emotion of that scene. The right song can complement moments of triumph, or facilitate healing during our hardest moments. That's right, I know about your breakup playlist, but the benefits of music for humans extend beyond a momentary energy boost or a cry session. Music can change your brain, and this exploding area of research is uncovering what we have instinctively known for thousands of years. Our ancestors first began to leave Africa 65,000 and 75,000 years ago, and they all carried with them the power of language and the power of music. The language of music is hardwired into our brains. It's a global language, a language that we were all born to express. Like most things in life, it all starts at birth. I'm Emma Watkins, a children's entertainer and a Ph.D. candidate with a love of all things science and research in the world of child development. And this is the BabyLab podcast, where we chat with experts from the Marx BabyLab about the work they're doing to grow our understanding in this area. Today's topic, Music, is something very close to my heart. I've seen the power of music with children and cannot wait to learn more with you about how we can use it to benefit our little ones. My name is Dr. Sandra Gerido, and I'm a senior researcher at the Marx Institute for Brain Behavior and Development at Western Sydney University. With a background in music and psychology, Dr. Gerido is the perfect person to teach us about the intersection of music and emotions in children. But before we get to that, it's important to understand where we've come from because so much of our relationship with music today is a result of how our ancestors lived thousands of years ago. There are a lot of theories about the whole evolution of music that relate to children and the relationship between children and parents. So, you know, it could well be that the whole reason music exists is because of its role in parent child relationships. Let's go there. So, one of the theories is that before language even developed in the lives of our ancestors, it was really important for humans to be able to communicate emotions because obviously that's got to do with survival. If there's something scary or dangerous coming along, you need to be able to communicate that quickly to the people around you so that you can react quickly. And that's even more important for a baby because, you know, human babies are born so underdeveloped compared to other species and so they're really, really reliant on their parents. So, the theory is that music may have kind of developed from early forms of communication that didn't involve language. We know even now that music is so important for a newborn baby and a parent to communicate even when a parent is speaking to their baby. We tend to use what's called "parenties" which is this, you know, you go, "Oh, you're so cute." And all the musical elements of the speech are emphasised there and it's just a natural way that we speak to babies. But that sort of tends to indicate the importance of that sort of musical way of communication between parents and babies. So, historically, music and musical speech has been an integral part of the relationship between caregiver and baby. And although our world today is a little bit different than it was 75,000 years ago, a baby's attraction towards musical sounds, particularly from their primary caregivers, hasn't changed much at all. So, my name is Anna and I'm a first-time mum. I've got one little boy. His name is Vincent. And he's 14 months on Monday. So, Anna, tell us about the role that music has played in Vincent's life. Well, I wouldn't say that we're a musical family or we weren't at the beginning, but just something about our son, he gravitated towards music from the very beginning. So, when he was very little, he was only a newborn. He had really bad colleague and what I found is playing reggae music at full blast was the only way to get him to calm down. So, that's where we sort of started with the music. And it was anything with a beat, anything with a rhythm. He just loved listening and it would calm him down and he would just settle. So, we started with that. And then as he's grown, I just found that he always went to the musical toys. He'd always go and seek out the nursery rhymes or whatever they were, turn them on and just play. And then he'd go off and play with his some toys and when the music stopped, he'd go back and he'd turn it back on. And then he'd go back and play with his toys. So, he was always really just into the music. And from there, we started singing to him a lot. I sang the Beatles. I sang, you know. Anything at all that came to my mind and then eventually nursery rhymes. We just started turning everything into a song and he loves it. [Music] Like Anna, many parents will instinctively begin singing or playing music to their children. It just feels right. But where has this instinct come from and what does the science say about it? So, traditionally, children's songs have always had two main components, lullabies and play songs. And lullabies are about actually sort of regulating the child's arousal levels and making them feel calmer. And so, the kind of slow singing that we do in lullabies does have a very down-regulating effect on a child. So, it's one of the best ways to get your baby to sleep. You know, we do that sort of regular, patting on their back or something like that, which is rhythmical as well. And when you're doing that nice and slowly, that can down-regulate them as well because their physical systems start to synchronize with the beat. And so, when you're singing to them nice and slowly, the same thing happens. Everything calms down with them internally. And then the play songs on the other hand are designed to communicate and to teach. So, it's those kinds of songs that then we start to use, you know, for example, teaching them the alphabet and stuff like that. And those sorts of things, even with a baby that doesn't speak yet, can help the baby become more alert and more engaged with their environment and more connected with their parent. So, yeah, beautiful things to do to use either of those types of songs. But with all my kids, I don't know why or how, but I've always just ended up making up a little song that became their song. I think with my older son, I was just trying to get him to sleep night after night. And I just started singing a little song that had his name in it. And that became the thing that we always, we always sung to get him to sleep. I use music when I'm teaching him basic routines. So, for example, we wash our hands before mail time. And so, when I sing that song, then he knows. Yeah, he knows, okay, it's washing our hands time. Or when I sing the bath time song, he knows it's time for a bath. So, he's associating to even when I say a certain word, like we have a little bugly, wuggly little thing that we write around the house. And when I say that word, he knows that I'm going to sing that song and we're going to go for a ride on our bugly wuggly around the living room. So, he does associate them. I don't know if he knows more than that at this stage. But I think it will be a key tool for me going ahead and looking at instruction. I imagine that music will be one of the ways I can do that. So, we won't be putting a bugly, wuggly ballad on the album. No, we won't be doing that. But you will be releasing an album, I wish you. I have been thinking them releasing an album of my little songs that I've come up with. With the parents, perhaps singing these lullabies and having these effects on the children in such a positive way, is it reciprocated for the parents? Does it affect them as well? Yes, yes. There's lots of evidence that singing is. is just in general quite beneficial for our emotional well-being, as well as our physical well-being actually, because of the lung activity and the breathing involved. But obviously when you're singing a lullaby, your own physical systems are downregulating as well. And so you're beginning to feel calmer. You might be quite sort of anxious 'cause the baby's not getting to sleep. You've got all this stuff to do. But when you start singing a lullaby, you start to feel calmer as well. And the baby, I think, picks up on that as well so that has an additional effect. What are the specific incidents where you feel like you need to do music and singing in order to settle Vincent? Well, one of them is definitely nappy change time because he's now that he's kind of crawling on the verge of starting to walk. He's very active. So come nappy change time. He is off. It doesn't matter whether it's a sloppy poo or whether it's very wet, nappy. As soon as I open it up, he just wants to go. And then I'm going to end up with, you know, everywhere, everywhere on my sheets. So when I sing to him, I find that I can keep his attention and he focuses and just stays still for long enough for me to finish what I have to do. So it's moments like that when he had colleague I was pushing his little knees up towards his tummy to try to relieve wind and things like that. And I would sing while doing that. And so he was more tolerant of my actions on his body and moving him about when I was singing. But when I'm just trying to do it without the music, he's a little bit more fussy. So Anna has learned to use music as a tool with Vincent, tapping into those positive biological responses that Dr. Gerido mentioned. And not having come from a musical background, Anna has been led by her son as she explores what works for him. But as we know, no two families are alike. And sometimes a baby can be born into an already music rich environment. - My name's Ryan. I have two beautiful boys, one is called Kago, who's about three months old and my other son, Axel, who's 19 months old now. - Wow. - So we have a family for, and we have a dog called Biggie. - Oh, that's important. - Yes, the Frenchie. Everyone seems to love the Frenchie. - So. - We were talking to you about music and the importance of music, but tell us about naming your children. It seems to be. - So, yes. So music obviously is very important in our family, which has been reflective in the names of our children. So my son, Axel, is named after one of the Swedish house mafia members, Axel. My son, Kago, is named after Kago, the DJ, and our dog, Biggie, is also named after the rapper. So. - You're right in there. - Ryan, absolutely love music. - Do you remember having music as part of your household growing up yourself? - 100% 100%. So the big thing for us, which is why we play a lot of music, because I remember listening to like Queen, do you riff mix, Jimmy Barnes? - Yes. - We're probably roughly the same age. So you're feeling me, yeah. - I have a lot of thoughts. - And I still, I give very nostalgic when I listen to those types of songs and bands. Now, mainly the three were like I said, you riff mix, my parents are Scottish, so Annie went and she's Scottish, so. - My mum was obsessed. - My mum was obsessed as well. - Absolutely loved it. My dad was big on Jimmy Barnes and Queen, so Freddie Mercury obviously, those guys. He'd always have that playing, or my mum would have the arrhythmic going. They made a good environment when we were kids, and I wanted the same sort of for our kids as well. And as I said, we play a lot of music, and there's nothing better than on a Sunday morning, we crank the tunes, and we're all in our pajamas, and my kids dancing to the music, we're dancing to the music. I was saying to kids this morning, and my kids, I've realized they don't listen to music, they feel music. And you see that in him when he's dancing, and then just the arms are going, and he's popping the head, and he's doing these circles, and he's, does this funny eye thing where he's looking that way, but he's turning that way, and you just, you can see he's, he's feeling it. He's not trying to be rhythmic, or he just, what he wants to do, his arms want to go, and his head wants to go, and he wants the stamp his feet, and he's enjoying it. - He's loving it, yeah. And I want to keep that environment for them. I find that house, or home, I should say, is their safe space, and I want him to feel comfortable in being himself, and I feel like music brings that out. - When you mentioned about connecting with the music, and actually popping along, I mean, do you tend to play more rhythmic music for your children? - Yeah, so I do. I play a lot of my style of music, which is the EDM dance style, but I try to incorporate the kids stuff into it. So, funnily enough, we were playing Baby Shark for him. - Brilliant. - Brilliant song. Anyway, I found a track version of it. - Right. - Yeah, and never played it for him before, and he absolutely loved this track version of it. And I'm like, I have to look at that. He loves Baby Shark, and then this track version, you just see him just popping along, and yeah, so we tried to incorporate the kids stuff into the music, and I actually did that. I played, I recently did a DJ competition, and I incorporated a few of the Wiggles songs, so I incorporated Fruit Salad, and the floor. - Yeah, I had that in there. - From really strong beats. - Yeah, I had that in there, and I had the two two Chug-a-Chug-a-Big Red Cure, so I had that in there as well. So, I tried to incorporate the two for him, so that he's familiar with what I'm also playing. So, you can, yeah, you know, we obviously listened to a lot of Wiggles at home to get thrashed, so. - So, recently we've got it into the Wiggles, and we've also got it into a just Coco Mellon, and yeah, started giving him a bit of screen time. He's been a bit sick recently, so we've been a bit relaxed about that. And if a song comes on that he doesn't want to hear, he will become upset, he'll grab the phone, or he'll grab whatever device I'm playing the music off, and he'll give it back to me, and he'll shake it, and he'll, I find that he gravitates towards the music that has a real beat and a real rhythm. If it's a slower song, if it's more of a ballad, he doesn't have as much patience for it. So, he wants, yeah, he wants his upbeat songs. - There's some interesting parallels here between Anna and Ryan's children, and their attraction towards rhythm. Let me take you back to earlier in the episode, when Dr. Gerido spoke about those links between rhythm and a child's arousal systems. - We do that sort of regular patting on their back or something like that, which is rhythmical as well. And when you're doing that nice and slowly, that can down-regulate them as well, because their physical systems start to synchronize with the beat. And so when you're singing to them nice and slowly, the same thing happens, everything calms down with them internally. So, rhythm, whether it's the pulse of mum's heartbeat in the womb, those first nursery rhymes, or even just tapping on the tree of a high chair, resonates with human beings. We're just drawn to rhythm in a biological way. - He loves pushing buttons and twirling things. So, he plays on my decks at home. - What's it you have a deck? - So, I've got, yeah, two CDJs and a DJ mixer. - Oh, oh. - So, lots of buttons, lots of lights. - Yeah, so it helps with the sensory stuff. He's motor skills, turning up and down. He pushes that. - Yeah. - He pushes that. Then obviously when the music is playing, he can apply effects. So, he's turning knobs and it's creating a sound. So, he's hearing that. And just associating the two. He's also got a little timber, his own decks at home that we got for him. - Oh, we saw a photo. - Yeah, yeah. - So, he's got that. And the same thing with the sensory, up and down, you can spin it. - Is there evidence-based research about percussion? Because percussion has an interactive element and the barrier to access is left. - So, for little very small children, preschool children, that's often the way you might start their music lessons just with percussion instruments. One of the things that we believe is behind why learning a musical instrument is so useful is the fact that you're using both hands and learning to coordinate. And somehow that helps you to be able to use both sides of the brain more, with more sort of connectivity between the sides of the brain. But yeah, often using percussion is a good way to start with preschoolers. But you'd be surprised on the keyboard or the piano, it can actually be simpler than other instruments. - Yeah, that's true. - And so, you know, if you want to get them into sort of learning pitch and things like that, then yeah, the keyboard or the piano can be a really good way to start. And in my experience, around three and a half or four years old, they can start to learn on a keyboard. So, as long as they've got a teacher that sort of knows how to teach that age group. - I was in a very nerdy keyboard group at school and loved it. - I so wish I'd learned the drums as a child. - Yeah. - But I think that might be the next calling. I feel like we can encourage parents to do more percussion at home because it's readily available. - It is. It's also probably less pleasant for the parents though. - That's a very good point. - You know, I've always cursed anybody who gave my kids like toys that were really noisy. - I'm so sorry for bringing them to you. - Recorders also similarly not pleasant for the parents. - Why does it? - We're not even gonna wonder about it. - There is a lot of feedback now about the benefits of music. And this idea that music can, I guess, be beneficial to cognitive development for children, particularly I think there's a tendency for parents to want their child to be very intelligent, which we know babies are intelligent already. But is there research around this aspect, this concept of playing Mozart or very highly complex melodies and rhythms to children, will that, I guess, accelerate their development? Yeah, it's a good question. There's something that's become known as the Mozart effect, which is the idea that, yeah, if you play Mozart or classical music to your child, it will make them more intelligent. Unfortunately, that has been scientifically debunked, basically. It's based on an experiment that was done with college-age students, and they found an improvement in spatial reasoning, which is only one aspect of intelligence, which lasted for about 15 minutes. But for some reason, the media has picked up on that in the past and turned this into, yes. And I've even heard of US politicians that have based their whole political campaigns on the idea that, you know, they're going to provide free CDs to all newborn babies, stuff like that. But what we know about that now is that it's not so much with babies, but if you're using music for studying or something like that, and it's music that you like, it doesn't matter if it's Mozart or anything else at all, and it just arouses your alertness levels to a point where you were able to focus really well, that can be beneficial. So when it comes to playing music to babies, there's not a lot of evidence that it's going to improve their intelligence. Perhaps some suggestions that it could be useful for emotional intelligence, because it's about learning how to decode the communication of emotions, like we spoke about earlier, all those non-linguistic aspects of the way we speak, which communicate emotions. And so there are some theories there, which you might have some grounding, that children that are exposed to a lot of music are better at understanding that sort of non-linguistic communication. But what there is a lot of evidence for is learning musical instruments. There's a fair bit of evidence that that can have what we call a transfer effect in that it can influence capacities for language, capacities for mathematics. And because music is like a language, exposing children to hearing music at a young age means they just instinctively understand music as if it was a language. They absorb the grammar of music if you like, which means that when they're a bit older, if they choose to learn a musical instrument, they've got a bit of a head start because they've been listening to music. So musical instruments get the big tick from Dr. Gareedo, but Mozart as a brain booster, not so much. But that's not to say that playing music to your baby in the Wemmer's pointless. We know that babies begin to perceive the world around them in the third trimester, and that this is a time when they begin to connect with the sounds of their environment. But no cares, did a lot of research about music before they were born. So we actually started playing. Think from about 16 weeks old, we started playing particular songs for Axel when he was born. So my I picked massive attacks here drop. And the second one I picked was for Kago, which was a Vichy's The Nights. So we played those songs from year about 16 weeks on with both of them. Every night, Kessel gets her phone and she'd hold it on her belly and she'd play it. And even now, not so much Kago because he's only three months old, but even now Axel when we play, you can see that he knows the song and he recognizes it. Obviously, he doesn't sing along to a bit of dance, it's along to it. So I really feel that starting the music thing early, and I'm really grateful that Kess actually researched, because I'll be honest, I didn't do a lot of research into this sort of stuff, but Kess being the moment. She is. She's wonderful mother. She sort of looked right into it. So yeah, I'm really grateful she did that because I can see that starting at young has really made a difference to Axel in particular and hopefully Kago, when he's old enough to express himself. And you mentioned that this musical journey has just continued with Vincent. Did you read anything about musical? Did you research anything before applying this in your household? No, not really. I did do some reading about listening to music in the womb, but I kind of never really did that. I was so busy, I was still working, so I never really did any of that. It was more really just based on responding to him and when he was born and what I found worked, I just kept doing and at night, during the long night, so I would sing to him and that would help him drift off to sleep. So we just started using music as part of our daily routine because it worked and whatever works, right? When you're in your mum. Do you find that you are able to impart this experience to other parents that might be struggling to settle their children? Yeah, well, I have. I've mentioned I've joined a wonderful mother's group. They're absolutely wonderful ladies and yeah, I've shared that with them and we've all shared one another's like bedtime songs and settling songs. I find that a lot of parents do have as a particular song they sing when they're putting the baby to sleep or there's a particular one when they're doing whatever it is that they need to do. So we've shared that and I've shared it also with his educators in daycare, which he's just started and it's a good thing I did because they sang to him and he slept for two hours. Excellent. Yeah. So what I would say to the parents is just play music. Whatever you're into, just play it and then if you kid react to it, fantastic, keep playing that style. If not, try something else. Again, go back to the children. Music's really good. Kids obviously react to that. So play that but just play music in general. I mean, I probably shouldn't say it in here, but radio I feel like it's not a really good thing because a lot of talking on radio, but you know Spotify put on a Spotify playlist like a kid's Spotify playlist. At the end of the day, just play some music and see how they react and you'll find why I reckon you'll find that they'll react to where the arms will start going and you'll just see them feeling it and then they'll be doing some weird funny stuff that you're like, I would not think to dance like that, but here he is standing on his head. So if parents want to engage in music as a tool in their parenting tool belt, what's your best advice in encouraging them to start this practice? Just start singing to your babies as early as you can even before they're born because they're getting used to the sound of your voice and it's something that's calming and reassuring to them. They start singing to them at any age, don't worry about where they use sound about or not because they're going to love it anyway. And then expose them to lots of different types of music to listen to in the environment as they get older and give them the opportunity as they're getting older again to just have lots of different ways of creating sound in the environment. Let them get the pots and pans out of the cupboard and hit them. You can make them little shakers with a plastic cup and rice. Anything like that because experimenting with making sound is really good for their brains and it's really good for inspiring and interest in musical instruments later on. So let them experiment and consider getting them to learn a musical instrument when they're a bit older. Music has been a core function of communication and language development for as long as there has been humans and sound. It is a powerful tool for so many things. It can connect people, help regulate your emotions, stimulate language growth and above all else, it just makes us feel good. So play your baby reggae, let them hit the pots and pans, sing to them, anything and everything helps and there's no wrong way you can do music. Coming up next time on BabyLab, being a CMSEX couple, the roles are very blurred in our family so what would generally be a dad's role in the house or the mom's role in the house is just two women doing the role. And that I think will go into girls getting a little catch and to play with and boys get in a lawnmower. We have to do both those jobs in our house so multi-talented. We speak to two parents about how they approach aspects of gender when raising their children. That's next time on BabyLab. The BabyLab podcast is a listener production brought to you in partnership with the Marx BabyLab at Western Sydney University hosted by me Emma Watkins, audio by Kelly Fulston. Executive producer is Todd Stevens and producer is Thomas Thexton.