The Power of Listening with Hoda Kotb

Well, welcome back to Living and Learning. I'm Raven McIntyre. I hope everyone's doing well out there and enjoying these Conversations with some of my favorite people. I know I'm enjoying it. Well today's episode's going to be a lot of fun because for once the famed Interviewer will become the interviewee She's a wonderful role model to so many people. A multi-faceted woman and a groundbreaking broadcast journalist. Everybody's going, oh, I know who that is. Well, I'm thrilled to welcome to the show co-anchor of the today's show and today with Hoda and Jenna. Hoda caught me. Hey, Reaper. So how long have you been doing a podcast? Reba, I started doing it probably about maybe six months ago or so and I wondered how different it would be from like, you know, regular life, regular like work life, but it's so much better. Yeah, I mean it's so in depth. It's fun. I am turned on. Good. Well, you've had some great guest. Yeah, we've been having fun. Yeah, I like your your title, making space with Hoda. I love that cute. Reaper. That's a cute one. I guess it's so much different for you. To get to talk like an interview. Like you're doing right now and it's a lot longer than the interviews you guys get to do on television. Well, you know, it is because I feel like we only get to skim the surface off and on TV. And you know, you've been on our show a ton of times and we love every time you're on. Yeah, but they're like, well, you get Reba for five minutes. We gave you extra. Like what? Usually they're three minutes. We've had me been shorter, but there's something about listening. It took me so long to learn how to do that in this business, which sounds weird. You're always trying to think of your next question. I got to get ready. And then I'll listen. I realize like just just listen. Uh-huh. And and then all this magic will happen. Yeah. And that's a huge thing. I've been interviewed by people where I have said something pretty. I thought dramatic. Yeah. And they go to the next question instead of like, right. You know, follow up. Yes. Is that what you call it? A follow up question? That's exactly what you call it. Well, I wanted to talk to you about a real serious subject. I know you're a big country music fan. You named your dog after Blake Sheldon, right? I did. Let me tell you something. That's a serious question. Oh, you love Blake. I don't know what it is about him. I think, look, everybody fell in love with Blake. Like it was one of those things. But I remember Reba. He came to 30 rock and hosted with me. And I did like a country music week. And he sat next to me. Any serenaded me. Now I thought it was just me. Like I, when he looked at me, I was like, this is the thing, right? Because he does not look at other people this way. Yeah. But um, this guy, wait, hold on. I'm just don't move. I know this is a podcast that you're going to be able to see something. Hold on. Don't move a muscle. Hold on. Okay. Oh, it's the whole body. It's not even, it's not even like it is a full grown blow up of Blake Sheldon. She has. It's a huge cut out, which is weird. It's weird. I have a problem. That's in my office. Oh my gosh. Everywhere. He just pops up. If people walk in and freak out. But yeah, I had a, I just, there was something about Blake from the very, very beginning. And I named my dog after him. And it was, and he was like, of course, your dog's name is Blake is cute. Like he just, some about everything about the guy. Yeah. But, um, and, and our love has lasted. Obviously he has changed country music in ways for the better. He's very blunt. He says what he thinks and, you know, growing up in the music business in the 70s, 80s and 90s before Blake. You had to control your, I mean, not honesty, but you're blatantly bluntness. Uh-huh. And you know, say the right thing. Don't disappoint the, the people who came before you and your parents and Garth Brooks and Blake. They became themselves on stage. They are themselves on stage. Yeah. So it gave all of us kind of the freedom to be dorky on stage and be goofy and just be more personable, not perfect. Did you feel like you had to be perfect before? Yeah. I really did. Yeah. You know, we'd rehearse. Yeah. And everything was on a cue. Yes. And I liked it better. Well, was it so strict. And so that's what we do now. We just have fun. Get up there. And if you make a mistake, stop start over. Tell the audience. I think the audience always wants to be in on the joke. Yeah. Or in on the mistake. Yeah. Don't leave them out. You're right. Do you feel totally free now at this point in your life? Yeah. Is that maturity? I love it. I love the feeling. Me too. It's so weird because I'm a pleaser. Yeah. Here's an example of how much I'm a pleaser. We were on the set of the today show in a commercial break and some weirdo Badeiro was outside of the glass. And he double flipped me off. And you know what I did. Reba, I was like this. Hey, hey, I thought if I grinned big enough and waved hard enough, I could win him. Like I could get him. Oh, yeah. But I thought and I literally paused after that. And I said, Oh, my God, you know, you're a pleaser when you're trying to turn the guy, who's telling you, your number one. And you just can't stop. And I was thinking to myself when I did that, like, what is that about? Like at what point do you just say? I'm me. And you know what's funny, Reba, I just interviewed this woman today. And she is the CEO of the Dallas Mavericks. First African American woman to have this job. And she was saying when she was younger, and she was a big wig at AT&T, she was about to get promoted. And they said to her, come on in. Yeah, here's what you're going to do. We're going to promote you, but you have to cut your hair. Change this. Don't say blessed. Just say lucky. Don't do this. Do that. All these things. And she said, I looked at them and I said, all my career, I've done what people have asked. I took my braids out because they asked me, I didn't wear my red blazers because they told me I needed to be more, you know, corporate and navy, navy, and stuff like that. She said, but that's enough. That's enough of that. And she turned down the promotion to be like, I can't remember how it was such a huge title at AT&T. And the head head Hanjo called and said, why, why didn't you take the job? And she said, I'm tired of being told, this is who I need to be. This is me. Like, this is me. This is what I have. So take me or leave me and her. Yeah. And she ended up getting the job. And I thought, yeah, so they were like, you know what? We do want you. We like you. We don't know, you know, so, but, but it just reminded me of like, when do you stop doing what people tell you to do when it's twisting yourself into a pretzel. Oh, yeah, very true. When I started in music business, I had no idea what was going on. I was a ranch and rodeo girl getting my degree and elementary education. And when I came to Nashville, you know, that kind of told me what to sing, how to dress. Which that was a godsend because all I ever had in my life was, was hand me downs. Yeah. So that worked. But after a while, I said, you know, I don't like those three and shields. I can walk in them. Yeah. I want to be comfortable. I don't care how it looks. And that was a huge blessing. And it was freedom, totally freedom for me. I absolutely loved it. So saying the words out loud, because that's scary, no matter what stage, like you're like, okay, I'm about to say something right now. I'm about to say it out loud. And I was thinking, like, sometimes when you speak it, like you can say it in your head, you can play into your girlfriends. Oh, I can't believe they did that. And then you go ahead and get your hair cut the way they told you or read the words the way they said you read them. But boy, it's like, it's like you're ripping off the corset when you can finally say what you want to say. Absolutely. And look, I mean, everyone falls in love, obviously, with you for a million reasons. But well, thank you. Because you feel like you are exactly. Who you are. And there's nothing like there's no one better to interview than somebody who's telling the truth, someone who's authentic. Nothing, nothing's better. I agree. I guess me the other day. How do I stay so grounded. And I said, well, if you surround yourself with people who are honest to you. Yeah, you're honest to yourself. I'm not all that in a bag of potato chips, you know, you're just the old average Joe. So who, who keeps you in check? Oh, my whole team, my family, everybody. My sister does that to me. She's like, oh, I don't know what you meant when you said this on the air, but it was not cool. I go, I didn't even, what did I say? I didn't meet you know, but somebody who calls you on your stuff. Oh, yeah, my older sister, Alice, one year gave me a toilet seat cover for Christmas. And she was sick. Everybody called me a star. So she put on top of the toilet seat says the twinkle. I'm not a star yet. I'm a twinkle. But I've got my team around me, my management. I mean, if I'm looking goofy saying stuff or you know, I've given my opinion on something that was great among friends. But if I say it publicly, you know, you need to get your facts straight on that before you see. say something, they'll tell me the way it is. Have you had like the same team for a long time? In and out. Yeah. Yeah. That's a tell too, I think. Now, very important. Yeah. There's that quote that says. It's one of my favorites. It says, you're the sum total of the five people you spend the most time with. So choose wisely because you don't, you start like, if you ever had like a girlfriend who's always complaining about her boyfriend or husband and all of a sudden before you know it, you're, I'm looking at Joel. I'm like. Yeah. I mean, you pick a, you know, you start. It's contagious. You're like, what am I doing? I'm not this person. But if you hear it enough, like, I feel like whatever comes in comes out. It's like, all of a sudden, you know, I'm looking at the parts of Joel that bug me and I never did that before. Like, what am I doing? That's stupid. Like, don't do that. You love this guy, you know, live in that part and, you know, things are going to bug, but that shouldn't be on the front burner. Oh, totally. Totally get that. Well, who are you listening to now in country music besides Blake? You know, this is so weird because it's such a random person. And I just listened to it today as the white speaking to me, but there's a guy who I went to the blue bird and heard him sing and his name is Paul Sykes. And I sat there and listened to him sing a couple of songs and I was weeping at the table. Oh, and you know, when you look at someone and you go, I don't know you and you're not famous, but I have chills all over my body. And he's got a couple of songs and I just played today for Jenna, this song called A Seed. And the reason it moved me was because the Rockefeller Center Christmas tree is here. And we were talking about Jenna said, it's so sad. It's been, it's 85 and someone cut it down and brought it here. Oh my god, what they do that, you know, and I said, and this song speaks to the very thing that sometimes you're meant for a greater purpose. Oh, wow. And it moved me. I played it for Jenna in the commercial and she started getting all misty, which I loved. So sometimes I listen to somebody random who I don't, you know, who's not my, you know, go to, but it just moves me to a place where I'm like, Oh my god, I have my heart. I can feel it. I can feel it. So I've been listening and he's got a couple of other songs that are beautiful too. So I've been listening to him lately. I'm going to start listening to him also. I love to get demos in. Yeah. Yeah. I'm always looking for songs to record. And the demos to me sometimes turn out better than what I do in the recording studio. It's, it's raw. Yeah. It's from their heart. Yes. They wrote those songs. Yes. I know there's so many people out there that are more talented than me. They just didn't want to do what I've had to do to get where I am today. Is that the difference, you think? Probably 98% of it. Yeah. It's a lot of hard work and a lot of hanging out there in the right places, I guess. How do you know? I was always curious about the songs because when I was at, like I get chills when I hear a song that moves me. Like I feel it all over my body. I'm like that. There's something about it. I can't tell you what. But how do you know when there's a song you want to record? Like how do you know for sure? Just exactly what you said. If I hear a demo and it makes me feel something, happy, sad, I can relate to that. Or I know somebody who can relate to that. Yeah. But if it gives me chills, chills. And then I record it. Yeah. And if I do my job correctly and you listen to it, you'll get chills also. Because it's got to touch the heart. There's no better feeling. I was listening to, you know when Cam was just coming, there's that song called, oh God, I'm blanking now. Something house. Oh, yeah. Cam's song. Burn in house. That's a great song. It was a couple years back and a guy from Sony Music who was one of the. One of the big guns there said, I want you to hear a song. And he took that song and he put it on all the speakers and he hit play. And I could feel the tears coming out like just like that. Like sometimes it hits you. There's like a button inside you and all of a sudden, I don't know what chord it's hitting, but. Mm-hmm. But you feel it. And it just. I don't know that there's a better feeling in the world. So the other day, Haley, who's now my little one, she's four and a half, she looked at me when a song was playing and it was some Daniel Tiger song about the sun going down in the stars or whatever. And I looked at her and her eyes were welling up and she said, what is this? Yeah. I said, that's love. That's when you love a song so much and feel it. Her eyes were spilling over with that song and I'm moved right now, picturing her. But it just shows like when the music's right, it can hit, you know, a four-year-old, it can hit someone our age, it can hit, you know, it's just such a beautiful feeling. And to watch it affected a four-year-old, that's when you know it's real. It's chemical. You bet. Wow. Yeah. Oh, I'll never forget when I was in Iowa, Oklahoma. That's where I went to school for 12 years. We went to the Baptist church and one Sunday morning, after Sunday school, the preacher played a Henson Cargill song called Skipper Rope. He said, I want y'all to listen to this. Okay. And then he played it and he said, all right, now everybody's been tapping their toes. Don't you want to listen to it again? It's a song about mama hates daddy, daddy hates mom. Last night, you should have heard the fight they had, gave little sister another bad dream, woke us all up with a terrible scream, Skipper Rope. Cheat on your taxes, don't be a fool. It's that they said about the golden rule. Never mind the rule, just played when and hate your neighbor by the shade of his skin, Skipper Rope. Now, I was probably 12 years old when that came out and that song needs to be re-released. It unfortunately still holds true. But that's the beauty about songs when they are so grounded with deep foundation, broad foundation, they'll live forever. Oh my God, I've got Terry just listening to you just recite the words. That's a beautiful one. And you know what? That's so funny. I remember that from 50 years ago and I can't even remember what I had for breakfast this morning. I was thinking about this too, things that are different now than they were 10, 15 years ago or whatever. It's like, I feel like the people who have the most fun in life just, they don't give a rip about what they don't have right now. My mom is in her 80s, she's 85 and I watched her fall in love with a song, a movie, a friend she met, a meal she had, a coat she bought, like falling in love over and over and over and not saying, well, I can't see that very well, I can't do that very well. She's always like, oh no, I don't read the paper anymore and she can't really see it that well. But there are a lot of other things that she does, she goes, you're not going to believe what I found. Oh, books on tape, it's amazing. On my phone, oh, I just downloaded this book and I'm doing that like she is finding the next thing. It's either you can get stuck and say, well, this isn't like it used to be. Well, of course, it's not. But I think it's fun, no matter whether you're her age or our age or whatever age you are, to be able to just say like, I'm in love with like now, like this is like, I get this day, I get this moment and I don't know. Like there's some kind of optimism that I think, like, you know, we all know people who are like, remember what it used to be like? It's like, it ain't there anymore, sweetie, like we're past that. Good for her. Yeah. You know what? That's the hardest thing for me is to live in the moment because I'm always asked about the past. And then I'm always asked, what are you going to do in five years? I don't have a clue what I'm doing in five years, ten years. I just say, God's the plan or he'll tell me, he'll tell me what I need to know it his way, his time. Yeah. I know. And I agree with you. And no matter what you do, like if you put out a brand new record or a new thing, they'll be like, okay, so what's next, Greba? You're like, I just did this. You put out book out. What's your next book? You're like, I just, but people are always looking for the next, the next, the next, the next. Yeah. And I applaud her for getting the books on tape. Yeah. I could not get Mama to get a computer now. I said, but you could get these little frame things and I can send or email you pictures or what we're doing, where we are. Yeah. And she said, well, I'm just going to go to bed and read a book. How long ago did she pass, Greba? It was right at the beginning of co-food March 2020. Wow. That's tough. Yeah. Yeah. You know, in a way, I think it was a huge blessing that God took her on because I don't know how she would have dealt with all of this. Yeah. She would have been up there on that hill there at her place in Stringtown, Oklahoma, reading her books and it would have been really hard for her not to be able to visit with her family. Oh, we didn't get to bury her until two weeks after she died because of COVID. COVID. Geez. I just, um, just did an interview with Lydia Bastianich and Ingrid Micheals and Ingrid, you know, sings some just really some beautiful, beautiful music. And they were sharing a moment. They were both my guests on my radio show and they were both sharing a moment about losing their moms and Lydia just lost her mom recently and her mom was in her 90s and Ingrid lost her mom about. 10 years ago. And they both said that they had the privilege of holding them when they die. And it was such a moving and beautiful moment that they got to do that. That's really special. Oh, I got to tell you this funny story. When she was about 87, 88, mama went to church all the time. Well, now her mom and dad were holiness and penicostles. But she went to the little church down Stringtown, Oklahoma. And one day during alter call, Joey Lansdale, the preacher was just standing up there and waiting for everybody to come walk down the aisle and dedicate their life to the Lord. And mama gets up and walks down there and he says, well, Jackie, what can I do for you? And she said, well, preacher, I'm turning myself in. He said, what? She said, well, I'm tired of doing it by myself. I need some help. Jackie, come on. She's a character. Oh, wow. We all stayed tuned after the break. We'll be right back with more. You know what guys? We're going to do something a little bit different today. Instead of a game, we're going to sneak in to Hota's podcast. It's called Making Space with Hota Kotby. And she's had interviews with Cheryl Crow, author and Lamont and so many other fascinating people. The guests on this episode were Oprah and Maria Schroffer. And I just thought it was incredible. So y'all take a listen. Okay, guys, what was the most difficult thing you had to let go of in your life? It's difficult. You go first. Oh, Maria, I'll let you take that, babe. Most difficult thing I had to probably my marriage. Yeah, or my vision of whatever I thought my marriage was. I have a lot of things. I think I had to let go of this notion that I could make everybody happy, that I could please everybody, that I was going to be the kind of person that everybody was going to actually like. I think coming to terms with the fact that you are never going to please everybody and you can't be who you are in the world without accepting the fact that they're going to be some people who no matter how character-driven you think you are, no matter how centered of a moral compass you think that you have that they're people like, I can't stand her. I really don't like her, you know what I mean? So I think letting go of the notion that you're never going to please everybody. And does that still hurt or not so much anymore? Not so much. Listen, 67 things hurt less. What's the best thing about being this age? Wow, I think there's a lot of great things about. I remember Oprah, you telling me like when you turn 60, you're going to people going to start treating you different. I was like, no, no, they're not. But I started I think slowly in my 60s have started treating myself differently and started to be kinder to myself. And as I said, I feel lighter to the point of like, you know, I think a lot of my life I spent kind of living to please my parents and please others like she's saying. And now I'm really clear about I want to spend my time doing what I love with the people that I love. Wow, very interesting. Okay, that's a great tease right there. I'm going to listen to all the rest of them now. Thanks so much, Oda. Reba. Oh gosh, I love you. You have an awesome podcast. But of course, I didn't expect anything less. Thank you so much for her having me. Oda, thanks so much for coming on the show today. I really appreciate you. Let's do it again sometime soon. Check out her podcast, making space with Oda cut me and her fun TikTok channel with Jenna Bush Hager. And of course, you can catch Oda every morning on today on NBC. You guys have so much fun. Well, thanks for listening to Living and Learning with Reba McIntyre. A Spotify original production. Our lead producer is Dylan Rupert. Our executive producers are Gina DelVac, Yassie Solick, Danny Trebatch, and Justin McIntosh. Editing by Cheryl Crosby, original music by Doug Seismore. Special thanks to Leah Edwards, Robert Adler, Casey Simonson, and Kyla Cunero. I'm your host, Reba McIntosh. Follow us only on Spotify.