202: The Power Of Forgiveness (feat. Shelby Houston Brown)

- Welcome back to this week's episode of Unlocked. I am really excited about today's episode, but I will preface this now by saying you may need some tissues, okay? So if you have some handy, I would get them. This next guest is just such a powerful human being. I came across her on TikTok and it gave me goosebumps. I got tears in my eyes. I could not imagine. I mean, one of life's worst circumstances came across her door and the way that she has handled it with so much grace is so inspiring to not only me, but I feel like to millions of people across the world. So I am so excited to have Shelby Houston brown on. Welcome. - Thanks, I'm happy to be here. - I'm really excited that you're here. So I have been wanting to do this conversation for a while. I came across you and I was like, I, something about her, I need to talk to her. I see the impact that you're making, but your story that we're gonna talk about is your dad. Officer Richard Houston, he was killed in the line of duty and December of 2021, and you were 18 years old. And at his funeral, you stood up and forgave the man who killed him, which I already have goosebumps. And you did it out loud on a microphone and so many people across the world, I feel like watched you. And we're definitely gonna talk about that, but I do wanna start with just who your dad was, and the legacy that he left behind. - Yeah, I grew up in the best family ever. I tell people all the time I really did have a perfect childhood. I have a younger brother and a younger sister, super close with them. I mean, my parents were amazing. He started being a police officer. I guess it was like the year before I was born. - Wow. - It's all he ever wanted to do. His dad also died whenever he was younger. And so his dad was a police officer. And so he just knew from the get-go. That's what he was called to. And so I mean, we grew up with him being a police officer, but I mean, outside of work, he was the biggest goofball like told the worst dad jokes ever. Like, always had a camera in front of him. Like, we would mess with him all the time. Like, dad, we're not taking itself here right now in public. Like, it was, it was a lot. - He was that dad, he was always taking itself here. - Yeah, it's like, dad, put it away. But yeah, I mean, he actually was the one who helped me start, you know, he was the one who helped me make my decision to start following Jesus. And like I said, we kind of grew up in church. And he was always the one who took me and my family every Sunday and whenever I was seven years old, I said, "Dad, I would love to like follow Jesus." And we had that conversation and he walked me through it. And so that for me says just everything about who my dad was. - Yeah. - And not only did he do that with me, did that with my sister and my brother. - Wow. - And so yeah, he, he was a powerful guy, but I mean, the most down to earth, goofy dad ever. - Wow. - Yeah, and so you were 18. How many of your siblings at the time? They were, I wanna say it was like 14 and 15, 16. - Okay. - And you just touched on obviously your faith. And what would you say your dad taught you about faith? Not by saying it, but by the way that he lived it. - He never met a stranger and was never afraid to tell people about Jesus. There were actually so many stories that we found out after he died of people that he would come in contact with, not just like people he worked with, but calls that he would respond to. And would always go out of his way to help people that, he would respond to the call, but he would take it a step further and meet whatever need it was. And honestly, just like showed me the heart of Jesus and what it looks like to not only walk with him, but look like him, so yeah. And what is there a specific moment that you go back to when you find yourself missing him? - Hmm. There's a lot. - Yeah. - Yeah, there was a spot on the couch and he would always sit in. Always knew when I walked to the door he'd be there. I think he's just a little moment, it's like that. - Yeah. - Gosh. What do you want people to know about your dad who never got the chance to meet him? - I think if my dad were here today and if we could make the decision like, would we have him here? - Sure. - But I think what you need to know about my dad is he would still look at all of this and be like, no, it was worth it. The people that have come to know Jesus because of this story, he would not trade places to be back here because of it. - Like we just started. - Yeah, I think that's it. As much as we miss him, I don't think he'd trade places. - Well, and I think you see him in every single person and their story when you hear that their life has changed because of his story. - Yeah. - And on that day, December 3rd, 2021, what can you walk me through that? - Yeah. I was a sophomore at Dallas Baptist University college student in Dallas and I was out running errands studying and I got a phone call from my mom and she was like, shall we where are you? And a told her and you could tell she was kind of acting a little bit odd on the phone but didn't want to communicate anything with me until she could get me back home. So she told me that I needed to get back to campus and so at the time I was like an hour away from home and rush hour and I knew something was wrong but didn't know like quite what happened. And so made my way home, finally gave her a call back and at this point, I'm just like so angry at this point. It's been an hour and a half of just like your thoughts spiraling. - And it's just like tell me what's going on. - Yeah, and so finally I pull up caller and she said, shall we your dad's been in an accident today? And unfortunately I have heard that multiple times. I mean he's a police officer for 21 years. And so it has never been obviously what happened but I mean there were like bad calls that he went to like car accidents, things like that. And so honestly when she told me that my heart kind of settled and I was like, okay, well where is he? Like where can I come, like meet you guys? And that's whenever she told me, she'll be, he's not here anymore. And I hung up the phone and I screamed so loud. And she finally got across me that my pastor at the time, him and his wife were on their way to come get me. And I honestly I didn't say much more to her and so I didn't know what happened at the time. And so we get in the car and I'm on my phone and I'm scrolling social media and it's like news article after news article after news article that he was shot and killed. And he had basically there was a domestic disturbance call that he answered and within seconds I mean shot him four times and killed him instantly. And so at that point I had, we were getting close to home and we pulled up into the driveway and I fling the door open, run into the yard, my mom catches me. And she brings me inside and I just remember walking in and saying, where is dad? Where is dad, where is he? And I look to my left and the Christmas tree's up and home loans on the TV. And like this is supposed to be the happiest time of year. Like you want to talk about seeing your family being with your family like this is it. This is the season for it. And so at that point my brother and my sister already knew they were brought home from school early and there were dozens of police cars at our house. And so obviously I didn't sleep at all that night. And the next morning, this is really like the point of my story where I made the decision. And so I was on the front porch. Like I said, I had known Jesus since I was seven and so I was just, but at this moment, just so angry with God, right at least now. Yeah. And asking all the, you know, why God, like why now? Why me, why us? Like he had made it home safely for 21 years. And now he will never come home again. And I felt just this nudge in my spirit, like I was supposed to speak at my dad's funeral. And I was like, well, I can do that sure, but like what am I gonna say? Yeah. And so I felt like he-- brought this picture to my mind, and it was him on the cross. And it wasn't just like far away, distant view of him on the cross. It was just like just his eyes and how sad they were and how much you could tell he suffered for us. And I remember thinking, like, God, what in the world are you doing right now? Like, do you even care? Yeah. And I felt like he said, Shelby, you can have me in my life and my peace and my forgiveness, or you can spend your entire life walking in bitterness, resentment, and hate. And I knew what he was asking me to do. And so that was the moment where I decided that I was going to forgive the man who killed my dad. And then I felt like him say again, and now I want you to tell the whole world. And so, and now the night before you, the day before you got the call, right, or that night, dad had sent you a text message. Yeah, yeah. And actually, I was a youth intern at the time at my church. And I had just-- I'd always kind of loved writing and speaking. Didn't really know why. But I enjoyed it. And that week was actually the first time that I had ever shared a message at my church for our youth ministry. Wow. And he was actually able to be there for that. Yeah. And so, yeah. And so that message that he sent me, I was just walking through just a really long, hard season and weak, but yeah, I think it was just proof that God was watching that God had His hand on us. And can you do you remember what that message was? I remember it word for word. I'd need to look at it. No, you're fine. You're fine. All right, guys, so I have a friend who has wanted to fix her teeth for as long as I have known her. Same thing, every single time it came up. Traditional braces, male office visit, after office visit, on top of a cost that never really felt doable. So it just stayed filed under the Someday tab, if you know what I mean. I got tired of hearing Someday, so I bought her smile set. She's getting started right now. So let me tell you about how it actually works. Smile set can straighten your smile for under $1,800. That's less than half the traditional cost of braces and all of it's done at home. 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That's tempo-meals.com/unlocked for 60% off your first box. Tempo-meals.com/unlocked. Rules and restrictions may apply. - I assume though that that message-- - Yeah. - It, you probably went and reread it time. - Oh, yeah. I mean, I still do. Like, I still have all of our text messages still. I still get choked up every time I go through and read it. Still laugh at all of his dad jokes in there. Like, yeah. - That's why I have always said. I'm like, I don't want to delete anything. - No, yeah. - Like, really? It's those moments that you don't know what's going to happen. - Well, and two with him, I'm like so grateful now looking back that he would never put his camera away. Like, we have so many pictures. - Sure, yeah. - Together and. So, yeah. And so, when you decided to, you know, speak at his funeral and you stood up at, like, point church, was it forgiveness line something that you had planned to say or did you kind of feel that in the moment? - I knew that I was going to share that I was gonna forgive the man who killed my dad, but honestly, like, whenever I went up there, I tell people all the time, like, that was not me up there. Like, that was Jesus with me. And I totally felt in that moment that those were his words and not mine and he's the one who just gave me the power and strength to say them. And something I say to a lot of the time is like, a lot of people, I think, assumed, whenever I said those words that I somehow didn't feel any, like, grief or sadness or like, how could you say that? Like, a week after your dad died, but something I say all the time is like, I trust and obey God. And I trust that one day my feelings will catch up to it regardless of how I feel in the moment. - Wow. - And say that again. I trust that, you know, I obey and trust God. And then one day, I know that my feelings are gonna catch up with it. - That is powerful. - Yeah. - And so, didn't feel good necessarily to say in the moment, but I knew that God was calling me to it. And what you said, just some of the lines that I feel like went viral for people was, I can't get any part of my heart to hate him, not to scream, not to scold, but to simply tell him about Jesus. I mean, to be able to be in that place, it's powerful. - Yeah, and I remembered to, after he killed my dad, he tried to kill himself and he was unsuccessful, but he was sent to the ICU and he spent, and he was a handful of days there. And I remember whenever I found out what happened, I remember feeling such a way like, I hope he makes it, like I hope he makes it out. And I think part of me was like, I'm not entirely sure why I feel this way, but that was kind of my hope from the very beginning. - That was such a conflicting feeling, right? - Yeah, sure. - So you're like, all right. - Yeah. - All the good parts of you, you know, in a way, I feel like you feel crazy, right, like 100%. - All the good parts of you were showing up and you're like, I hope he's okay, I hope. But then there's another part of you that's like, wait, why do I feel that way after what he just did? And I feel like the only explanation to that is God. - Yeah, 100%. And I think even like long before my dad passed, I was always like a true crime girl, loved those documentaries. And I remember I was, it was like a few years before my dad died and I was watching one and they had filmed whenever a man was going to be sentenced to death. And like it was his, he was gonna die that day. And there were tons of news cameras out like at the prison, people like cheering, screaming, yelling, like so excited that he was gonna be executed. And I remember watching that video and being like, why, like, I balled my eyes out. And I just remember being like, why do I feel this way? Like my dad's a police officer, like it's so, like you said, it's just like a mix of emotions, conflicting feelings, that I had such a heart for like prisoners and inmates long before my dad died. And it didn't make sense at the time until obviously he passed. And now it's like so much of what I do. - Well, yeah, I mean, now, which we'll get into, but just the ministry that you build is amazing. What, on that day, your dad's funeral, what was happening in your heart and your mind before you stood up there? I was. I remember just feeling so mentally weak, except at that point, it's like I'm not eating, like I'm not sleeping, and I never in my life have I felt so like weak, physically, emotionally, and I think it would have been a different day, had it not been the size of the funeral that it was, but we were so like caught off guard with the amount of people that were there, and I just remember like asking God that morning, like you're gonna have to do this for me, like I don't have it in me. And so me getting up on that stage was just pure strength that came from God, and saying like I know what you've called me to do, and I'm gonna share what you've called me to do, but then I'm just gonna let you handle the rest of it, honestly. I applaud you and have so much respect for you, and how you've handled this and life on the other side of it. It just, to me, it's hard, right? Like we see people every single day who go through stuff, and it's so hard to find the faith and the tragedy. It's so easy to get angry and better and resentful, and you know, your dad, he lived obviously very deep faith. Then you obviously had to start living it when he was gone. And what is your faith actually looked like across the past four years? I will say that it has been a huge test of my faith. I think a lot of people, whenever they saw me do that eulogy, assumed that like, this was like somehow easy, or like, yeah, I guess just easy. And I think if anything, it's been like the complete opposite of that. And what I've really had to lean on is friends and family, but honestly, it's been a daily decision that I've had to make. Yeah. A lot of people think, well, yeah, you forgive someone once, you forgive and forget. It's like, no, it's a daily forgiveness. And it's like, of course every morning when I wake up, I have to make the decision to forgive the man who killed my dad, but it's a decision I have to make every single time I think of my dad at this point. It's just like recentering myself back in like what God's called me to do. Like I said, just like trusting that one day, it's not going to feel so heavy, so painful and so like full of sorrow. Was there a moment that you wanted to take the forgiveness back? There were quite a few days in therapy where I think part of me felt like I was glued to the decision because of how big it got. Yeah. And that can honestly be really dangerous for someone walking through grief. And there are certainly moments where I think back and I'm like, what's even worth it? Like he wasn't here to meet my husband, wasn't here to meet my daughter, won't be here to meet any of my other children. He was the best with kids and babies and I won't get to see that. And I think in those moments is whenever I definitely wrestle with wondering if it was worth it. Yeah. Oh, this is I don't know how you've done it. I'm like, this is I know. I'm like, oh gosh. Okay. So I love summer. I love the beach. 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Forgiveness is 100% more for you than it is for anyone else and a lot of people are so hung up on walking in forgiveness because they think they have to wait for and I'm sorry and the truth is I would say more than half the times you're not going to get one and the only person that is being affected by you walking and living in bitterness and anger is you. Yeah. Nobody else. The person who hurts you and offended you. They're not, they're not worried about you or worried about whether or not you're choosing to forgive them. Yeah. And has there been a time since your father was killed that you have come face to face with the person who did but they did? Yeah. About a year after he died we had his trial and we had the decision on whether we wanted to grant him the death penalty or life without parole. And of course like I knew how I felt at the end of the day it is a much harder process to send it to someone to the death penalty, tons of retrials and appeals and all those things and but ultimately I didn't want him to die. Like I knew that he was looking for a way out whenever he not only killed my dad but tried to kill himself. And so I was like this might be our only shot at him possibly getting into heaven one day. And so at the trial that was the first time I had ever seen him in person and I remember he walked in, he sat down, very rarely did he pick his head up to look at us but at the very end we got to share a victim impact statement my mom and I did. And I knew I was like well I mean my hope and my prayer is like one day I'm gonna get to like go to him and visit him in prison but I was like if that doesn't happen this may be our only chance. And so all I share with him was the gospel and I think as best as I can I try and take the weight off that moment because ultimately it's not up to me like I'm gonna plant the seed and trust that either God's gonna use it. use it and like he is going to accept Jesus and walk in faith or he's not, but that ultimately isn't up to me. All that I was asked to do is to share the gospel. And so that's why I did in that moment. And I just still pray that, you know, I haven't spoken with him. But I just pray that God's been working on him. Is that something you would like to do? Definitely. Wow. Yeah. And why do you think you're so pulled to do that? I think just because I know the power at hand and I know what God can do and how he can radically change someone's life. I mean, at the time I didn't know what I know now like getting to be in prison and seeing like the worst of the worst become like incredible followers of Jesus. And I think it's just inspired me like there is more and also like this is in our home ultimately. And I think what I've learned most is that God calls people worthy of suffering. Amen. And instead of looking at it as proof of like God must not love me because I'm walking through what I'm walking through or he must not hear my prayers or he must be mad at me. It's actually proof that God finds you worthy of suffering just like he did on the cross. Wow. That. And I think that's why you are so perfect for what you're doing now. Which you kind of touched on it. You know, you walk into prisons and you speak to these men. Do you go to women's facilities? Well, okay. So you go into prisons and you speak to these men and women. What made you decide to do that for the very first time? Because I had like I think because I had the heart for the man who killed my dad. I and like I said, even before him, I knew that I had a heart for inmates and after what happened to my dad happened. I think it just confirmed like, okay, God is calling me to this. And so the first time I went into prison was in San Quentin with a guy named Bob Goff. I love it. I love it. I was just with Bob. Oh, no way. I don't know. Three weeks ago. Really? I love it. Yes. Yeah. And so he teaches a class at San Quentin. Yes. Yeah. All the amazing things. Yes. San Quentin. Yes. So he that was the reason why I started. He was like, hey, you should come with me and his wife, Maria. I mean, yes, he had been doing classes at San Quentin for forever and she just would never go. It's part of her story. But she was like, if you go, I'll go. And so we went together and I mean, I was like this 18 year old girl. I was like, who knows? Like what's about to happen? I was certainly nervous and scared. Just because I feel like honestly, the media and certain movies and TV shows have created prison and inmates to be in such a way that is just not at all what it really is. Yeah. And it's hopeless people. Yeah. That's what it is. Yes. Hopeless people. And it's our job to restore hope in a hopeless place. Yes. 100%. And so that first time that you went, what was that experience like? I was very caught off guard just by like inmates would walk up to you and you know, they talk to you and I mean, they're just normal people because they are. They're normal people. They're not a number like they have a story. They have families. And yeah, we got to walk around with him and Bob taught his class and in normal Bob fashion caught me out of nowhere. He was like, no, Shelby's going to come up and tell her story. And I was like, oh, okay. Okay. Thanks, Bob. So I got up there and this was like, I want to say it was only a few months after my dad passed. So yeah, I got up there, but what was so cool? And I mean, it is going to be etched in my brain for the rest of my life at the end of my story, the chaplain, the guy who kind of runs the group. He and all of his guys, they turned around towards me, he reached their hands out and they prayed over me. And that was honestly the moment where I felt like God said, like, this is what you're here for. Like, this is what I've called you to. This is what I want you to walk in. And when you walk into these prisons, is there a story that just sticks out to you in particular on someone that you've met? This is something like really personal to me. It was a woman's prison. And I had just spoken, I had gotten done speaking and they were about to line up to go back. And this one girl I look across and she's like sprinting over to me. And I'm like, thought something was wrong and she's like, I'm sorry, I just couldn't leave without telling you this. I feel like you're really afraid that you're not going to have kids, but I wanted to tell you that you're going to have a daughter one day that's going to have twice the anointing that you do. Turns out, I was pregnant, turns out, she's a girl. Stop. My first daughter. And honestly, like, that was also just more confirmation, like the life that God can bring out of like what was supposed to destroy you. Like, who would have thought that the person who was going to speak life into me and my family was a prisoner and an inmate and the equivalent of like what destroyed my world. Yeah, that's probably like the coolest personal story that I have. I mean, there's been like so many different testimonies that I've heard. And what I love most is whenever I see them in prison and then I see them out on the outside. Isn't that the best? That is the best. Yeah. And so, who do you go into these prisons with? I do a lot of ministry with God behind bars. Okay. Yeah. Wow. That is. That is such a touching story. Yeah. And you can see when you speak about it. Like it just, it does. Yeah. Yeah. I love it. I feel called to it for sure. Visit GoodGirlRx.com and use code Unlocked15 to get 15% off a check out. 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It was finally feeling heard, supported, and honestly cared for without shame. Everyone's journey is different, results vary, and not everyone qualifies, but access to real medical guidance can be life changing. You're writing a book right now, which I'm super excited for. What's your whole mission of this book? If a reader only reads one chapter, what would you say it would be? I think certainly going to talk about my dad and the faith that he had. It's honestly the crux of why do what I do, but ultimately my goal is for the one person who reads maybe one chapter of my book is for them to walk away knowing like following Jesus' worth it. My hope and my prayer is that it's going to free a lot of people up into walking and forgiveness. I think it may be one of the most misunderstood topics of our world, honestly. I don't think people really understand what it is to forgive someone. No, not at all. No, and I really think that it holds so many people back, and I just wonder what our world would look like if more people walked in forgiveness. Wow. I think you are so right. I think we're taught from such a young age of just, oh, just say I'm sorry, you're just, you know, and forgiveness is not easy for you. This is not black and white. Like you said, there are days, and unfortunately you are in a position to where there were so many people at your dad's funeral, to where in that moment you felt led to forgive this person, and then after you felt kind of stuck in that spot, because you're like, wait, do I actually forgive them? Right. There was so much back and forth, and I feel like that is the story of forgiveness. Like if you feel led to do it, do it. Yeah. It doesn't mean it's going to be perfect. It doesn't mean it's going to be an easy ride, but it would they'll make sense in the end. And I feel like it has started to make sense for you. - Oh, 100%. - And when is your book coming out? - We're working on it right now. Honestly, I wanted to get through like, I wanted to be able to reflect a lot. And I think whenever I first started, I was like, we haven't even had trial yet, like all these different things. And I really wanted to put the right amount of thought and reflection into it. So I'm not for sure yet, but too. - So this, the man who did what he did, he is currently sitting in prison. Is he in Texas? Is it a Texas state? - It's kind of temporary. - Yes. - Okay. And your goal would be to go and sit and just talk to him. - Yeah. Yeah, I've kept in contact a little bit with his family. - Really? - Yeah, so after the trial, I ended up getting in contact with his daughter and his son and his daughter was actually there that day. She was at the call and my age. And so, yeah, I've kept in touch with him a little bit. At the time, I mean, they were like, still in high school, like they were young. And not only was, obviously, he sent to prison, but their mom was too. Their mom was there. - Wow. - She was actually sent back to Mexico. And so now I mean, it's just them. And so ultimately, like, not only did this guy wreck my world, I mean, ultimately he wrecked his kids' world too. And so-- - Lives are forever too. - Yeah, and so, honestly, I knew that, like, this was gonna be hard for them. - Yeah. - And at the very least, could I just like share with him, like, hey, I forgive your dad, I do. And 'cause I can't imagine as a kid like knowing my parent killed someone and wrecked someone's world at a young age too and having to wrestle and deal with the hard. - Yeah, that's to be very hard. So what would you say is what is standing in the way of you going and visiting him? - Honestly, honestly, not much. Like, I just really as a systematic thing or I honestly really just haven't even looked into it that much, truthfully. - And I think just trying to figure out like what it even take, 'cause you're right, it takes a lot to get inside a prison. - Yeah. - And so, yeah, I don't know. I mean, I'd do it tomorrow, you know, if I had the chance. - Yeah. - But yeah, I mean, I know that there's just like, steps and processes and all the things. - Wow, yeah. - I don't know how you do it. I really am in such awe of you and I can't wait to read your book and hear your, I mean, I've heard your story but to see it on paper, I feel like that's gonna be such another layer to your healing process. Do you feel that it has helped you to get it out on paper? - So 100% and my favorite part actually is, like I have journaled like my whole life and so I journaled the day my dad died, the week of like months, like after it happened and so yeah, just being able to see the faithfulness of God like through the pages and how he's written the story is powerful. And now that your daughter is here, what would you say that that had to have been healing in its own way? - 100% - Had to have been extremely difficult as well. But when your daughter was born, is there something that comes to mind that you think back and you're like, I wish I could have told my 18 year old self this. - I think, I remember my 18 year old self, like wondering if I would ever like really get my life back, like get my joy back, it really like changed me personally, like my personality, they're, I mean they're so, I'm not the same Shelby that I was before my dad died. And I think after he died, I just wondered like if I'd ever laugh again, if I'd ever smile, if I'd ever like really feel true joy and she has healed me and like pulled all the best parts of me like back to life. And yeah, she's honestly like saved me in a lot of ways. - Oh, gosh. - And your husband along this journey with you has this grief process affected your relationship in any way. - Certainly. - Yeah, I think honestly a big part of my story too is just teaching people how to help people grieve. I know it's just like a really hard subject and hard thing to figure out is like, what do I do? Like whenever my wife is like no longer, no longer has her dad, like how do I deal with that? 'Cause that's like a whole grief in and of itself is like, he never got to meet him, he doesn't have a father-in-law like. And so definitely, it takes a ton of communication, but I mean, he's just been the best and he was there. I mean, we weren't even together at this point, but I mean, he was at his funeral. He was at the candlelight vigil at my house the next day after he died. Like, we've always kind of been in each other's worlds, but like not together necessarily. And so, but I mean, looking back, I'm just so grateful that he was a part of those moments because it's like, some of these things, you just can't verbalize. Like you can't put into words. You can't. And so I'm just grateful that like God had him there knowing like we would eventually get married to meet together. I love that. That is such a god thing. And I would like to think it's a very dad thing. Yes, so 100%. You know? I'd like to think he had his hand on every little piece of it. For sure. What's a piece of advice you would give to someone right now that is in the thick of it? That is really struggling with that loss and doesn't know how to process it. I think community is everything. Being a part of a local church is everything. There are countless things and store it. Like there are things I will never know because of the people that worked behind the scenes whenever my family was grieving. Yeah. The things that they did for us and our family. And I think that if you're walking through that right now, lean on them because I truly don't think that I'd be here today if I didn't have people to hold me up whenever I felt like I couldn't stand, couldn't walk like physically, honestly. And I think more than more than all of that community is everything, but Jesus is everything. And I can't tell you that it's going to be easy, but I can tell you it's going to be worth it. And I think one day whenever you get to heaven, like he's going to peel back the curtain of heaven and he's going to look down and test, saw you the whole time. Like I saw you. I saw the tears. Like I saw what you walked through. And it's going to be worth it because at that point, we will not have to make any sort of decision to forgive or to worship. Like it's just going to be our natural response. And so yeah, I mean, it's worth it following Jesus. You give me so much hope and just your story. And I admire you so much at everything that you're doing. And when it comes to prisons, don't stop doing it. I unfortunately have seen the prison system firsthand, with my parents. And to see all the men and women that they're forgotten about, they are statistically proven. After the first year or two in prison, they lose touch with their families. And so to have no one and to have someone like you going in and breathing life into these people and sharing your story and a story of forgiveness and hope and what loving Jesus and believing in Jesus can do for someone's life. I think what's so amazing is to see people who are sentenced to life in prison, who decide to turn their life around and believe in Jesus. And I feel like prison looks different for them. It does. It does. And honestly, that made me think of a particular story in prison. The last one I went to, they were actually on death row. And we walked in, the God behind bars, team and I, we walked in and someone said something about like visiting death row and they're like, no, no, no, no, we call this life row. We have life because of Jesus here. And honestly, it takes one look at Jesus' eyes like whenever he captures your heart. I mean, it's true, you literally go from death to life. And I can tell you that prison looks nothing like what it could because these men are choosing to follow Jesus and walk with them. Wow. That is, I mean, it gives me goosebumps. - Where can people follow you on social media to keep up with you and your story and your book? - Yeah, in Scream, Facebook. I mean, everything is Shelby Houston Brown. - Okay, amazing. Well, this was such an honor to have you on. Thank you so much and for sharing your story and your dad's legacy and thank you for his service to just, I mean, our country. I believe every single police officer deserves the praise. I got every single day and put their lives on the line. So thank you. - Yeah, thanks for having me. - Hello and welcome to Pluto Fall. If you know the name of the movie you'd like to see, just stream it for free on Pluto TV. We're all your blockbuster favorites are landing all summer long. Catch anchor man, the legend of Ron Burgundy. - Fantastic. The Matrix trilogy. - Welcome to the real world. - Mean girls. - Sad up. - Tight and in. - I'm the key in the world. - And so much more for showtime. - Express nothing, they're free 24/7. - That is so fast. - On Pluto TV, stream now, pay never. - Hi everyone, I'm hospice nurse Julie and I have some bad news, but also some good news. Bad news, we're all gonna die. I know, but good news, that might be the best thing to ever happen to your priorities. 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