The politics of Gen Z

Like any good millennial, I have a love-hate relationship with Gen Z. I love that they're rethinking the rules of work and culture. I love that they love wired headphones. Gen Z, trendsetters are making the old technology the must-have accessory this fall. I love that they're healthier than other generations. But there's also some things I just don't understand about them. They wear millennial styles and listen to millennial music, but they hate millennials. They weirdly hate every sex scene in a movie, and they hate the laughing emoji, too. Regardless of how you feel about Gen Z, it's undeniable that younger voters are changing the national political scene more and more every year. And in particular, it's their political independence. They're unwillingness to define themselves by Democrat or Republican. That's different than generations prior. We heard some of this as Trump's UFC fight in Washington, D.C. We don't care what side it is. It's just whoever has, you know, whoever's put in America first, whoever's got, you know, the prior age for values. It's saying the boats up the grabs, it's up for them to earn it. But the difference comes through even more clearly in the data. This generation doesn't think about politics like the ones prior. So what is going on with the kids? I think the biggest misconception about Gen Z's politics right now is that all of a sudden, they're all socialists. That is just not the case. Yeah, yeah, they are embracing candidates who are offering new bold ideas in the absence of those ideas from establishment Democrats. This week on America, actually, Gen Z researcher, Rachel Jenfaza joins us to separate Gen Z fact versus fiction. Let's dig in. Megan Rapino here. This week on Why Are You Like This, I am talking with Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist Pablo Torrey about his New York City upbringing, striking fear into the hearts of sports teams and blazing his own trail in sports media. Pablo also flips the script on me and gets me to answer a very spicy question. Check out the latest episode of Why Are You Like This, wherever you get your podcasts and on YouTube. I'm Aina Garten. This fall, join me for Happy Hour With Aina, my new video podcast. Each week on the show, I'll invite guests for a delicious drink and a conversation at my kitchen table in New York City. And you're invited. Subscribe to Happy Hour With Aina on YouTube or your favorite podcast app for new episodes every Wednesday, starting September 16th. This week, I wanted to dig into the numbers to get a more accurate and nuanced understanding of Gen Z, a diverse generation that will play a big part in shaping our post-Trump future. And to do that, I partnered with Mermeration, a national firm that conducts a lot of in-depth surveys with a particular focus on young people. And after digging through their data, there's three things that stuck out most clearly when it comes to Americans under the age of 30. One, this generation is fiercely independent when presented with a list of common political labels like democratic socialist or liberal, moderate, even America first. The most common response for young Americans was none of the above. Almost 30% shows that option when we're talking about Americans under the age of 30 years old. Second, this is a generation deeply shaped by their economic and social anxiety. Mermeration found that only 28% of people 18 to 30 say that they can cover an unexpected expense of $500 using cash or savings. The third thing that stuck out in the data was the gender divide among Gen Z men and Gen Z women. There was a 17-point gap between Gen Z men and Gen Z women when it came to supporting the democratic candidate in the 2024 election. It was the biggest gender gap of any age cohort. And Mermeration found that young men are twice as likely than young women to view Donald Trump favorably. But that's just the top line numbers. So I wanted to talk to someone who understands Gen Z voters intimately and can help explain the why behind some of the trends we're seeing. So I hit up Rachel Jamfaza, who started a research firm called The Up and Up, all focused on Gen Z voters. She's written here at Vox and I love the work she does to understand what can be a misunderstood group. Here's our conversation. Rachel, thank you so much for joining us. I've wanted to have you on the show for a while. I appreciate you coming in. Thanks for having me, Stan. I'm excited to be here. We are going to dig into the data around Gen Z and truly try to understand what I think is a generation that's been kind of misunderstood maybe or at least put in to some boxes. You know, I have a little bit of sympathy for them because I remember all the stories about millennials and avocado toast and all of those complaints. It feels like we've now entered into an era where we talk a lot about Gen Z, but really to them. You do work where you to focus groups surrounding young voters. How did you get into that? So I started covering young voters, youth political culture, youth culture in general, when I was in college and was freelancing during college, wrote my senior thesis on the role of social media and youth-led social movements from 2010 to 2020, hands it it in literally the day that the pandemic started and so everything that I wrote about was outdated the second I turned it in, but that was my start really focusing on young people and youth culture and it was because I was living through the first four years of Trump's first term in office as a college student watching the activism on the part of all the students around me and across the country and really just felt like my generation was engaging with politics differently than past generations in part because of social media, but also because of a different proximity to and relationship to authority and that's only multiplied since then. Yeah, that's become really clear and that moment in time marks an important delination and a lot of our lives. I think particularly in Gen Z, you've done a lot of work around the different Gen Z. I've read you talk about Gen Z one versus Gen Z two. How would we describe those differences? So I call this the theory of the two Gen Zs. I really started to cultivate it doing focus groups with young people in 2022 hearing the way that high school students at the time and college students at the time just had a different outlook and I realized that those who had graduated high school before the start of the pandemic, those Gen Zers just had a different worldview than the younger half of Gen Z who was still in high school at the time of the pandemic hit and I think the reason that is is because of the taste of independence that people on the older cusp of Gen Z had prior to a lockdown situation and so really the age cut off now is anyone who is between roughly 29 and 22 I would say is Gen Z 1.0 and anyone younger than that would be Gen Z 2.0 and there is no official end date to Gen Z right now like it's sort of 1997 to 2012 so it's it's not very clear yet usually yeah when the gen alpha marker comes in it's interesting because in some ways that feels intuitive like you know folks change as they get older but you're mentioning like a important line of demarcation being when the pandemic hit but can you just name for me what the difference was between the generations like I get that they're different experiences but how did that shape a different form of politics totally okay so Gen Z 1.0 really came of age during Trump's first term in office this was a new phenomenon and he was breaking down past barriers and we saw a lot of youth at activism in response to actions or inaction from the first Trump administration so you saw things like the March for our lives and climate strikes and the Black Lives Matter movement and there was this very real sense that you know if we protest and demand change perhaps there there could be a difference yeah whereas Gen Z 2.0 when it comes to their politics first of all they came of age really during the Biden era this was a post-COVID sort of upbringing yeah yeah they're back better in quotes right and they really grew resistant to authority because they saw Democrats who were largely in charge during the time where kids went back to school and where there were things like mask mandates and vaccine mandates they saw Democrats in charge of that especially in blue cities or blue areas across the country where Democrats were handling the way that schools were reopening exactly and so young people who's sort of lives and childhoods were on the line with that felt like they were guinea pigs and experiment that they didn't sign up for and I think this is when we saw a movement away from Democrats I don't necessarily think that was towards Republicans Trump capitalized on this in 2024 and the Trump 2.0 mega culture became the counter culture but that's really hard to retain that cultural currency and we're seeing that now in his second administration but we we did see just broadly speaking Gen Z 2.0 is far less trusting of authority and institutions far more independent they hate labels and this isn't just political they hate labels when it comes to gender their relationships no one wants to be boxed in I hear this all the time in my focus groups and so they just moved away from both parties writ large okay this is great because it really lines up with what we saw from Marmoration it really identified how Gen Zs kind of fierce independence politically and overall I imagine that doesn't surprise you aligns up with what you heard in the focus groups definitely and the other thing that we've seen largely about Gen Z 2.0 is you know I talked about Gen Z 1.0's relationship to advocacy and activism Gen Z 2.0 looks at that and says where did it get us and we still have all of the same problems that we had then And the activism in some cases created small marginal victories like red flag laws in Florida things like that. Yeah, but It hasn't really shifted the culture. Yeah, and Trump was back in office again And so a lot of young people who are lowercase P progressive in terms of being in favor of reproductive health care access and Don't want there to be school shootings or mass shootings and believe in LGBTQ rights Like they are looking at these movements and saying well that didn't really get us anywhere, and so they're turning more to local Issues and there's been broadly this sort of shift from you know if we all rally together We can make a difference to maybe I should look at the ways I could do it in my own community in my own life Right that that rings true, but I want to ask about it because I mean some ways that again It feels familiar even in my own life. I think that there was a way a hope or optimism bubble burst for a group of millennials in the Obama Administration that you thought that things like you know Representation would save you and I feel like that was like a learning that some folks had at that time But those shift towards a more like individualistic sense of self feels like a difference from one generation to the next like in some ways We're calling this political independence. Should we also think of Gen Z as just like individualistic? Yes, I know. I mean if you think about Gen Z at a macro level We grew up with a device in our hand and we're taught to build our own brands across social media from like the very get-go Yeah, and that's also how you have to market yourself either to get into a college or to get a job It's all about everybody has a brand of self right and then also the cost of living and is very high And a lot of young people feel like before they can think about the rights of all of their neighbors and friends They need to be thinking about can they even afford to put food on their own table and get by and support their own family And so I think that's been part of the shift too. There's been multiple factors happening at once. Yeah Yeah, that's a that's a better faith way of seeing it I mean part of what this says though does speak other to other piece of the Marmoration data they said only 9% of young adults believe the government's official explanations for major events are usually accurate That sort of institutional distrust feels like at the core of what you're talking about Marmoration found that 40% of young adults believe that quote important facts are often or deliberately hidden from major events and 26% believe that explanations from the government are usually incomplete like the idea that only 9% of young adults would find government explanations of events to be truthful was kind of a shockingly low number for me like That distrust both feels familiar, but that mass distrust feels unique to this generation Yeah, so I think looking at the distrust there are so many reasons why young people might not trust the government I get it too. Yeah. Yeah lay them out for me. Okay, so we already talked about COVID. Yeah, that was massive But they also have grown up only in the Trump era of politics right in every election that Gen Z's been able to vote Trump Spent on the ballot at the presidential level and he you know depending on what side of Of him you lie on you either believe that he has broken down the government and it no longer is trustworthy or You are distrusting of the government because he's told you to be distrusting I both sides of that coin actually agree that there's a democracy problem right that you either see him as a solution or a cause Right, so so there's that and then at the same time We've grown up with social media and the ability to see three things and there's just a lack of transparency And I've recently been asking this question in my focus groups I phrase it two different ways first. I say what do you want to see from a political candidate or an elected official And then I ask what do you want to see from government? Uh-huh Because I've been trying to see if there's a difference between like candidates leaders in and then all the government as a whole And when we ask about government what people are looking for is sort of broad Social programming so things like snap benefits and WIC and help with uh affordability for education and The cost of housing and even local people sleep on Gen Z's appetite for local politics They want things like potholes to be fixed because that's like actually where they're feeling And they are not necessarily seeing that happen in few cases they are seeing it happen But when leaders are able to actually communicate transparently about what they are doing to make constituents lives better for them That's when you start to see that trust rebuild yet. Yeah, yeah exactly pothole politics You know, he's the best example of this is that he responds directly to constituents concerns on social media So like they're showing you know, this is something wrong and then he's like here. I am fixing it But you know, it would be one thing if the if the kids were distrusting of traditional institutions and media And they had you know replaced it with an equally trustworthy source You know like sometimes it feels like there's been mass distrust of these institutions only the turn to Tiktok or neighbor or something that isn't providing Reliable information Mermuration found that only 8% of 18 to 30-year-olds trust mainstream news to discover what has actually happened So should I just see that as being displaced with the timeline? So okay, I think that what young people are looking for when it comes to their news consumption is that they want Verification across multiple different sources. Uh-huh cross-check it. Yes. I've been asking this for years And also one of those very important cross-checkers is people who actually experience the situation firsthand right So they want to know from someone who's on the ground what is happening and that's why I think you know You see a rise in personality driven content across social media a lot of the times Those are people who are actually on the ground experiencing something firsthand and they're Bringing their own perspective to it and there was a few study that came out in the spring showing Gen Z news consumption habits I wrote about this at the time and they want journalists to be upfront about their own personal biases and where they're coming from Which when you've grown up with this mindset something that you know Gen Z's been taught is that everyone has their own I hesitate to use the phrase lived experience because they don't love that phrase But like their own personal Your story is valid and how it brought you to that place right and so They want that to be fused into The news coverage. It's not that young people aren't consuming traditional news content. They are but they're also looking for Various other touch points that confirm that data or if they don't see it elsewhere. They're not going to believe it They're not going to believe it and I think that you know some of that is really fair I mean I understand the ways that a projected objectivity or or projected lack of bias has not always served news Well And I certainly get how when you see someone on the ground whether it be in a Minnesota ice enforcement or in Gaza it makes you harder to trust mainstream outlets that may not be Reflecting the reality that you see first hand. So some of that makes a lot of sense to me I guess I just wonder about the kind of overall way that information ecosystems have changed like it does seem a little bit like Gen Z is like victim to the algorithm like are these choices that are shaped by the individuals are these choices that are served to them like how do we Look at the causation. Yeah, it's both and and I think what we're seeing this summer especially is a rejection and a rebuke of the algorithm Um actually that makes me feel good. I have a report coming out on this next week But if you look at What has been trending this summer? I actually wrote a piece for Vaux about this IRL summer in person community here in New York City You had the Nick's historic Ron and their win the way people were celebrating in the streets I mean that was insane Then you have the world cut bringing Americans together all across the country But you also saw more on the local level block parties Things like love island watch parties like people are wanting to be in person and off their devices There is a movement away from screens and I think a large part of that is because and what I'm hearing in my research is that young people are sick Entired of having taste be decided for them for them rather than coming to it on their own And this is why we're sort of seeing a pushback to the traditional influencer as well and more for like the local Creator this has political implications, but it is a much broader story about how Gen Z is Really pushing back against these algorithms that have defined their lives after the break how Gen Z is tackling the affordability crisis and the gender wars I wanted to talk about the economic data, which seems really central here You know murmuration found that young adults playing three villains most clearly for their current economic plight inflation at 48% corporate greed at 34% and government economic policies at 32% Um, does that match what you're hearing in terms of your focus groups like that seems like a pretty clear Diagnosis of who they think put them in this situation. Yeah, so what we're hearing broadly about the economic situation in our focus groups And it's really been the same since 2024 although now we have AI as a major cause of this too But it's just been that everything is too hard to afford it feels like it's like You're one bad break away from You know if I was living my own I'd be one bad break away from not being able to and I feel like that's Or majority of Americans feel like we're either underwater or just barely trading water And when you ask about you know who are they sort of blaming for the current Yeah economic crisis. I do think that they blame politicians a lot of the time because they don't see economic policies that work for them and they don't really see see creative ideas around how to improve this situation as they're trying to get their lives up and off the ground. And that's what they're really looking for from elected officials, especially when you're looking at the national conversation about what they might be looking for. Let's, you know, ahead of 2028. They really are hungry for creative solutions about where to go from here, not just talking about, you know, address that the problem exists. I think part of the problem in 2024 was that Vice President Kamala Harris didn't really address the actual problems that young people were facing before offering a path forward. And they want both don't gaslight, like actually say like this is a problem. And here's what my idea is to do about it. I think this is really important because I found it so much of a gap that we have covered in this show, and I found in my reporting overall, it's sometimes just like politicians are unwilling to, to level with people that, you know, they can handle it if something doesn't work out, or there is an assumption that this information somehow beyond them, or that they can't handle that. It does seem like to your point that there's a desire for creativity. There's a desire for disruption. Moureration found that 67% of adults under 30 believe it is more important to make changes to improve representation and fairness than it is to preserve stability and trust and existing democratic institutions. This feels to me like such a story we saw play out in 2024 where the pitch of a status quo was not acceptable, particularly for a rising generation where the status quo is not working for them. Like it seems as if disruption and creativity are what the base lines of what's required for things to work for them. Yes. And this is why we're seeing young people embracing DSA candidates. I know you've talked about this a lot. I've written about this extensively this summer. I think the biggest misconception about Gen Z's politics right now is that all of a sudden they're all socialists. They are embracing candidates who are offering new bold ideas in the absence of those ideas from establishment Democrats. I would consider myself like a moderate Democrat. Definitely left of center, but also at the same time a little bit politically hopeless as in I don't feel a connection to either party and like more distant as time has gone on. And so if more moderate center left Democrats started to talk with rhetoric that matched the way that these DSA style candidates are. I messed the urgency of this situation. And an offered bold ideas instead of just sort of, you know, nothing. They would get traction too. It's not rocket science. And this is, you know, I keep saying like young voters aren't that complicated after all. It's pretty simple. They want leaders who are going to deliver for them who are going to offer an idea for the future. Also, you know, this is sort of shifting gears here, but we haven't really talked about AI. It's my next one. I appreciate you. And in 2026 when you're talking about the biggest issues and what's affecting young people's lives, AI is at the center of that. Yeah. I feel like it's so core to any discussion about a rising generation because their anxiety about the future of work is justified. I mean, this is a changing landscape that has particularly affected fresh out of college folks or people looking to enter the workforce. And it feels as if AI is just kind of hitting a tipping point in the national political discussion. But how much should we see it as a driver of the economic anxiety? That's so evident in the data. Huge. I think it's aside from inflation. And obviously they're related. It is, you know, the biggest economic factor for your job. It's placement. It's that just fear. Your skills don't match to the workforce. I guess it's all the above. It's all the above. And I mean, I really think it boils down to a question of purpose because if Americans have traditionally found fulfillment, fulfillment and purpose through work, you have a generation who is on the brink of adulthood who doesn't really know what they're placing the world or the country is going to be because they don't know if their work is going to matter. And I think it still will. I mean, I can't predict the future. But I think it's the fact that everyone around them, there's so much noise being told, if you don't become fulfillment in AI, you will be irrelevant. So it's really affecting all young people. I'm going to ask about a couple social movements because as you mentioned, you know, even your college paper, you were on it early, but there was so much social activism in the last 10 years, thinking about me, two movements, Black Lives Matter. You mentioned March for our lives, which I thought was so like emotional, like those were such big moments in culture and in politics. But we've recently seen, you know, that time period, which has been grouped as kind of woke one, I would say in political world, be backed off by progressive politicians a little bit. Implied in that is that the next generations won't maybe hold those values as dear or the performance of those values as dear as maybe we were 18 years ago. Like, is that true? Like, have they changed their minds? No, I think it's just a movement away from identity politics. I don't think it's that any of the issues are any less important. I think this is the most diverse generation in a American history. And so that diversity is just normal. That's just the day to day. And young people don't want to be told what their politics should be because of the color of their skin or their sexual orientation or their gender. And so I think that's driven a lot of it because that got really old, really fast. And the other side of this as well is that it's really hard to sustain that type of activism online. The internet is a very mean place. And I think people just got really tired of that and feeling like they were constantly being attacked. For that, most young people just want to be able to get by, to live a good life, to have their politicians deliver for their bottom line. It's not that they don't care anymore about racial justice or about safe communities. But it just the conversation has shifted on to the big, it's hard to focus on that when there's the threat of war. And you can't afford gas or groceries or education to get a job to afford the rest of your life. Now I also think we should say we did see particularly some activism around Israel's actions in Gaza over the last couple years. I wanted to invite asking a couple questions specifically about the gender divide because that was such a big topic in the 2024 election. We heard at that time and I reported on the kind of change among young men that we saw manifested in that race. There was a 17 point gap between the votes of Gen Z men and Gen Z women. Before we get to where we are now, like what do you think drove that gap? Is it all Joe Rogan, is all Andrew Tate? Is it the in-sellization of young men? No, so I mean the easy thing to say is it's the algorithm. And I would say this is like an internet thing specifically, but if you're like chronically online and your algorithms very different, I think that's what makes some men seem so different from women right now. I feel like they're getting like propaganda more to like be masculine and like kind of more conservative algorithms. I've seen more like all of my like guy friends, but that's not the whole picture. I think a lot of young women felt like their bodily autonomy, freedom rights were on the line and a lot of young men care about that. But when I asked them, you know, what's the top issue for you in the 2024 election? Few said abortion. And I said, well, they're like, well, that's I care about that, but that's not an issue that personally affects me. And so I think that's sort of what it came down to. So back to that independence that individual is like what's most hit? No, right. Women literally felt like it was their futures that were in question. And we've seen, you know, when you talk about the gender gap, you noted that young men shifted their right. And that's of course true. Young women since 2017 have remarkably moved to the left. And there have been a number of different causes to that. But sort of every time there's been like a social wedges shoe, whether it was early with immigration during Trump's first term, the meat to movement, the conversation about reproductive healthcare access and the fall of rovers is weighed in the job's decision. Like there's been so many examples of things that have pushed women further to the left and then also just a frustration with the way that Trump talks about women or accusations that have been made against him. And also, you know, if you think about, this is part of what I think makes this political period for Gen Z so fascinating is that, you know, the Trump era will shape history across every generation. But Gen Z are the ones whose lives were their their ideology was forming exactly. And so they're there became this real sisterhood that emerged between young women during this time where both on social media and in person, they were finding camaraderie around sort of this shared both fear for their future, but also appreciation of their individual rights and freedoms. And young men didn't see that same sort of bonding happening. And you know, we talked a lot in 2024 about how Democrats had a problem with young men because they weren't actively reaching out to young men. They weren't bringing young men in as allies. And like I'm the first person to say that that Democrats really screwed that up and that and that this is this was a problem. But I think that there were not shared spaces for young men to come together in that way as there were for young women. So I think that was part of what has driven this gap as well. Well, I'm going to say just one to underscore your point. I think it's in a it's a helpful of rethinking of that data because so much has been said about young men's rightward term. But as you're mentioning, really, you know, some of these gaps have been driven by a leftward turn among young women that has been kind of a bond of sisterhood, but also inflected by important policy points along the way. Okay, that feels like it shows up in data and a rings true. One thing that I think is under talked about, maybe in IE, you know, this makes me think about an interview we did with Senator Gallego about reaching young men and Democrats' attempts to that. Sometimes it feels like they don't want to admit though that shared spaces of young men often, that bond is created and values that are somewhat misogynistic, of course, somewhat at odds with places that Democrats want to go. It's not that male bonding doesn't exist. It's that some of that bond was created in a backlash of a me too or in a backlash of some of those spaces. And I think some do something to be honest about that. That's a very fair point. And I've seen a bunch of clips about this, you know, when people are talking about Democrats problems with young men in 2024, they'll like go to a sports bar on a Sunday and watch football or like have you ever heard of fantasy football? Like there are plenty of ways for young men to come together every week watching soccer. Like, you know, I think it just doesn't code to your point. It doesn't code politically in the same way that this women's rights movement of our era has. So that just speaks to the gap. Should we update our thinking though of that gender divide from then to now? Like are we still seeing the same big gaps between voting and political behavior from Gen Z men and Gen Z women? No. So largely when I ask young people about the gender gap, they acknowledge that it exists but that they don't like it. They don't want to be stuck in this in this divide. Gen Z wants out of the gender war. They do. We're also now seeing a generation unite around a new set of issues that are pretty communal that everyone can kind of agree upon. There's a new shared set of issues that are less gendered and more affecting everybody. Yeah. And that's AI in the economy. Yeah. So like Gen Z now agrees that the two main issues are AI in the economy and obviously those are related. But I see this, you're saying like, you know, the gender gap wars, however you want to describe it among young people, we're at its peak particularly because the parties were positioning themselves on kind of gendered lines as well. And now because of the consensus about issues that touch everyone, mainly the economy and AI, you know, it's a little bit of a permission structure to put the knives down in the gender fight because everyone as lives are affected by this. Yeah. And I think also a lot of the gender war in the first place was kind of manufactured by people who were talking about Gen Z and not to them. Sure. And you had the main candidates for president kind of playing into that too. And it was a man versus a woman. And it was kind of like, these are your two options. And we've just were far past that. I've talked about how Gen Z is hope maxing like they, they want, it's kind of like, you know, you can say, oh, like it's giving Obama, but they really are looking for something to feel excited about. Like it's enough of the doom and gloom, you know, growing up in this era has been exhausting. The division and the vitriol isn't fun for anyone. And like, yeah, maybe it's the, you know, the hopeless optimist in me, but I think that there is a real appetite for a post-Trumpian era of politics that is just less toxic. And that feels more hopeful and gives you something to rally around and unite around rather than to be divided for. I mean, like, this has made me feel better, like in my Gen Z skepticism and also more importantly, as a piece of hope, you know, sometimes when we think about our post Trump future as we do on this show, it can be hard to see where those moments of hope come from, but we appreciate you laying one out. Thank you for coming on. Thanks so much for having me. That's it for this week's episode. But before I go, I am working on the study guide for you all about the midterms. And I want to know your questions that you have about the November election. Are you curious about which races matter most for congressional control? Are you interested in learning about which races matter most when it comes to AI and data centers? What about integrity of the vote? Leave us a message at 844-453-4448. Again, that's 844-453-4448. Tell us your name and where you're from while you're at it. We'll try and answer your questions in our upcoming episode and thank you so much for calling in. 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