The poison of 'the croucher'

This episode of Sunday School is brought to you by the Benedict XVI institutes Rev. Litergy Project offering the practical wisdom of priests to have successfully adopted classically Catholic worship practices to other priests who want to embark on the same journey but who need a roadmap to get started. You can visit Rev. Litergy.org to learn more that's Rev. Litergy.org to learn more. Hey everybody welcome to Sunday School. It is a weekly readings podcast from pillar media on the host and pillar editor and chief JD Flynn. I'm joined by my Sunday School classmate the great Kate Olivera. She's paying more attention in class than me getting a better grade. Her class participation marks are off the charts. I keep getting progress reports and delinquency notices on on the contrary and we're getting those marks from our Sunday School teacher Dr. Scott Powell scripture scholar. Extraordinaire who's coming to us today from. I don't know what looks like a there's a remote control. Carb behind him. It's Lego. It's a Lego. There's a Lego car behind him. Where. Where are you? I'm in my I'm in my home office. I have to go to my office in Denver later today but for this morning I get to be in my home office, which is from his home office and my blank blank Colorado studio in Colorado. That was not a good name. Everyone's going to be like we don't understand. No, we should not take it out. That's for sure. But I will I tell you what I will forgive you for it because we're going to be talking today about forgiveness. Because this is a God's for you. Thank you. This is a gospel that I know you spend a lot of time talking about actually. So I'm keen to hear you talk about it. He just about it. Well, well said. Okay. Thank you. But if you want to hear something a little bit better said better than that. Hear the readings. Seerak Psalms Romans and the gospel according to Matthew right now. Our first reading is Seerak chapter 27 verse 30 through chapter 28 verse 7. Wrath and anger are hateful things yet the sinner hugs them tight. The vengeful will suffer the Lord's vengeance for he remembers their sins in detail. Forgive your neighbor's injustice. Then when you pray your own sins will be forgiven. Could anyone nourish anger against another and expect healing from the Lord? Could anyone refuse mercy to another like himself? Can he seek pardon for his own sins? If one who is but flesh cherishes wrath, who will forgive his sins? Remember your last days. Set emnity aside. Remember death and decay and cease from sin. Think of the commandments. Hate not your neighbor. Remember the most high covenant and overlook faults. Psalm 103 verses 1 through 4 and 9 through 12. The Lord is kind and merciful. Slow to anger and rich in compassion. Bless the Lord, O my soul, and all that is within me. Bless his holy name. Bless the Lord, O my soul, and forget not all his benefits. Who forgives all your iniquity? Who heals all your diseases? Who redeems your life from the pit? Who crowns you with steadfast love and mercy? He will not always chide, nor will he keep his anger forever. He does not deal with us according to our sins, nor repay us according to our iniquities. For as high as the heavens are above the earth, so great is his steadfast love toward those who fear him. As far as the east is from the west, so far does he remove our transgressions from us. Our second reading is Romans chapter 14 verses 7 through 9. None of us lives to himself, and none of us dies to himself. For if we live, we live to the Lord, and if we die, we die to the Lord. So then, whether we live or whether we die, we are the Lord's. For to this end, Christ's died and lived again, that He might be Lord both of the dead and of the living. Our gospel is Matthew chapter 18 verses 21 through 35. Then Peter came up and said to him, "Lord, how often will my brothers sin against me and I forgive him?" As many as seven times. Jesus said to him, "I do not say to you seven times, but 77 times. Therefore the kingdom of heaven may be compared to a king who wished to settle accounts with his servants. When he began to settle, one was brought to him who owed him ten thousand talents. And since he could not pay, his master ordered him to be sold with his wife and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made. So the servant fell on his knees imploring him, "Have patience with me, and I will pay you everything." And out of pity for him, the master of that servant released him and forgave him the dead. But when that same servant went out, he found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred denari, and seizing him he began to choke him, saying, "Pay what you owe." So his fellow servant fell down and pleaded with him, "Have patience with me, and I will pay you." He refused and went and put him in prison until he should pay the debt. When his fellow servants saw what had taken place, they were greatly distressed, and they went and reported to their master all that had taken place. Then his master summoned him and said to him, "You wicked servant, I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me, and should not you have had mercy on your fellow servant, as I had mercy on you, and in anger his master delivered him to the jailers until he should pay all his debt. So also, my heavenly father will do to every one of you, if you do not forgive your brother from your heart." We're back. Dr. Powell Wrath and Anger are hateful things they say, and yet the sinner hugs them tight. Did you guys have Bibles in front of you? We have the readings on our browser. That's not what I asked. I do. Okay. The reason I bring it up is that there's some Syrac. We can talk a little bit of the background of Syrac. We've, friend of the show, he's shown up before. This is the first time we've talked about Syrac. Syrac is the last, least canonically speaking. It's the last of the wisdom books, the wisdom literature. It's one of what are known as the deuterocononical books. Some of these people call them the apocryphal books, although that's sort of a pejorative. I don't know if people know that, but deuterocononical is what we call them. They're sort of the not secondary canon, deuterocononical, obviously, so they came later in the schema of the chronology of how the canon came about. Apocryphal is, yeah, it's a bit of a pejorative. It's something that's hidden, something that suggests something kind of sinister that shouldn't be there kind of a thing. That's sort of a term that's sort of lodged against them. Just so people are aware of that. There is obviously the apocryphal, which is the book of Revelation, the unveiling of something. Anyway, that's fun fact. If you heard it called the apocryphal, it's probably someone who's not Catholic, we call it the deuterocononical books, because they are canonical. They just show up sort of later on. And that actually sort of matters for a bit of the context of this. So Syrac, Syrac is kind of cool. For lots of reasons, it is one of the only biblical books that really isn't disputed as far as who the author is and when the author wrote it, which is interesting. So it has a number of different titles. It's written by a guy named Jesus, Ben Syra, which for short, we call it Syrac. It's also called Ecclesiasticus. Not Ecclesiastes, but Ecclesiasticus, and part of the reason it's called Ecclesiasticus is because it's Christian pedigree that it became very much well used in the early church, and so Ecclesiasticus means something that kind of like the church is a little book, which is how I like to affectionately think about it. But it was used by the church a lot. It comes from probably some time around, and again, there's specific dating. The author's grandson writes kind of a prologue to a little intro, introducing what the book is, kind of time period. He talks about it being right after the death of the high priest, Simeon, or Simon. So scholars are pretty convinced it's probably somewhere in the 180s B.C. And the reason that matters, the reason that's significant, again, it kind of comes in the latter period of the literature when it's all showing up. You know, under 200 years before the time of Jesus, but what's happening here? So the 180s, and we think it probably is written in Jerusalem, there may have been an original Hebrew version of this, which is interesting. There used to be some strains of Judaism that very much believed that this was part of the canon. I think there's reason to believe Jesus was reading Syracist Paul as well, because it showed up as part of the Septuagint, and we know Jesus does use the Septuagint. But if it's coming about the 180s B.C., we're just before we'll become the Maccabin Revolt. And so what we see seeing happening sort of on the world stage. age, the Greek Empire has sort of at least in this part of the world allied itself with the Syrians. And what is arising around the Holy Land is used to be kind of the tolamian Empire, I don't know if we've talked about that, and it was kind of the branch of the Greek Empire that was really big on wisdom, on learning. It's kind of what we think about like Plato, Aristotle. They founded the Library of Alexandria, right? So it's how the Septuagint was translated into Greek from the first place. It was sort of the school of thought we want to compile all of the world's wisdom together, all of this literature we want to put in in Greek so that everyone can kind of, yeah, understand the thought and the histories of all these different people groups. There was another group called the Solucid, so it was another sort of general of Alexander the Great who ruled over a particular part of the Greek Empire, and the Solucids did not like the Tolemies. And eventually in this part of the world and the Holy Land, the Tolemies were defeated and pushed out by an alliance between the Solucids and the Syrians, and that's going to lead eventually to a guy, so if I sound like I'm just saying boring history, you might never heard of these names before. You might have heard of the name of one of the most famous Solucids who has gotten Antiochus epiphanies the fourth. He was the object of iron during the Maccabin revolt. He was the one who kind of came, pushed his way in to Jerusalem and the Holy Land. The Solucids were sort of welcomed by the religious leadership in Jerusalem at first, because they thought they were going to be more cosmopolitan. They could be a little bit more bourgeois, we speak Greek now, all these kind of trappings of the empire were like everybody else. But then eventually they became very heavy handed and forced Hellenization, forced the Greek language, forced people to burn Torah scrolls, and not circumcise their children. They started slaughtering people if they wouldn't eat unclean foods and offer incense to the Greek army, and horrific stuff, which is again going to lead to the revolt of the brothers Maccabee, the Hasmonian brothers who take on the nickname, Maccabee wasn't the name, it was a nickname, right, the hammers, and they're going to be the ones that fight against, not really just the persecution. So if you're familiar at all with the Maccabin revolt, I mean, I think a lot of people who are familiar at all with these books, it's okay, these brothers sort of stand up against this religious persecution from the Greek empire. You guys with me, that's not what the Maccabin revolt was about. That was a part of it, and I teach my seminarians this because I think it's important. Maccabin revolt, yeah, part of it is there's severe brutal persecution going on, but it really sparks the Maccabees into action, is the utter and total compromise by the priesthood and the religious leadership in Jerusalem, who basically say, no, no, no, we don't want to get hurt, we don't want to be thought badly of, we don't want to be fundamentalists, you know, whatever, an agronistic way you can think about this, we should acquiesce. Let's bring in the gymnasium, yeah, we have to eat some pork chops now, and then not a huge deal, right, they totally acquiesce, they compromise, and that's what the Maccabee brothers can't bear to deal with, and so they launch this campaign of piety, and if we have to fight for it, we will. But all that is to say, so things are about to really heat up in the Holy Land and get incredibly intense, and this book is probably being written just, but maybe a decade before it, which means there's persecution at that point, there's at least the gathering clouds of it, you know what I mean? So you can read some commentaries, and they'll say things like, you know, this is obviously a law in that, like there's a period of peace before this revolt breaks out, before the persecution, but I mean, if any of us who know anything about history, that's not usually how it works. Like everything is great, and peaceful, and then all of a sudden this thing happens, so I think it's important to recognize Kate to your point, at the very least you can see the clouds gathering, all is not well, right? And what Syrac is kind of doing, it's a weird book, it's not really linear, it's not narrative, it's much more like the proverbs, and you get the impression that the author is actually even quoting and utilizing the proverbs. So it's just kind of gatherings of these wise sayings that are sort of compiled together, but there's not like a strict narrative, there's not, you know, the protagonist or something, it's just wise sayings that are kind of gathered together, there's a lot of them, it's actually a really long book, and you can kind of categorize them in different ways, but there's just just a bunch of sayings, but the sayings I think have to be understood, the reason I unloaded all this background is that they have to be understood against what is it, the question, what does it mean to be a faithful Torah-believing Jew as a secular, secular's anachronistic to, but you know, I mean this Greek culture, this Hellenizing culture is gathering around us, encroaching into who we are, how do we maintain our identity, how do we keep faithful to the traditions that have been handed down to us? That's really what's in the background of this whole thing, if that kind of makes sense. Yeah, totally. Again, it's really long, there's a lot of sort of wise sayings, I don't want to call them sporadic, but they're organized in different ways, where we are in, we're in chapter 27, going into 28, it's a long section, basically it's it's advice for a young man who wants to be mature, what is maturity supposed to look like, and it goes through all these different sorts of things that, you know, foster maturity and what sort of wife or women to look for, you know, how to actually deal in your dealings with other people, all sorts of things. And I just, Kate, you said you had your Bible open? Yeah. One of my favorite verses from Syrac is in chapter 27, verse 12, and I just wonder if you would be so kind to read it for us. 27, 12? Ah, among stupid people, watch for a chance to leave, but among thoughtful people, stay on. Just good advice, good advice, just like, I'm tired of this, I got to get out of here. But just look for a good opportunity, you're like these are stupid people. I just love it. That's, I mean, there's, I don't have a deep theology, but like it's just, just good advice. Like, don't, it's like, oh, grandpa, you're right, I'm honored by that because a lot of times you and I are, you and I are in a habit, you and I are in a habit if we are, we always, we have it together, we always linger together and I feel very flattered by that. Yeah, we always, like, a bunch of thoughtful people, stay on. We'll hang out in the parking lot and talk with each other for a little bit longer. But do you notice? But JD, do you notice that our friends in that group tend to leave red, leave us red away? Yeah, that's right. Maybe we'll see. So there's that. I don't know. It's a good point. But it's just, I just, I get a kick out of that one, but it's a nice little snapshot of like, oh, okay, this is what we're talking about. But the latter part of 27, going into 28, it's all about how do you deal with wrath and anger and bitterness and, and which leads sort of to violence. I mean, I think of Cain and Abel, remember when God goes to Cain and he's like, I don't know if we've talked about Cain and Abel in much on this show, but there's one of my favorite lines. God says to Cain, remember when he's mad that his brother's offering was received and his was not and he's getting angry. Most of our translations say sin is, is crouching at the door or something like that. But the verbal form of the language it just says God says to Cain as he's starting to get angry about his brother. He's like, sin is a croucher. That's literally what it says. And I just, I don't know, but I don't know about you guys, but I find that just a powerful image, just like, just some maniac, just crouching in front of your door, it's just, he's a croucher. Just waiting to get you, waiting to get you. So this is really expanding on that, it's building on that. Like you guys violence, anger, wrath, these things that we let a fester, they're just, they're crouchers, right? And they're ready to attack and if you let him, it's going to go crazy. And that's what this, yeah, I mean, this, this first reading again, it's, it's nothing mind blowing. It's not rocket science. I mean, it's fairly intuitive, but again, it's just good advice. One thing I do want to point out though, and then we'll move on because it's doing a very explicit and overt job of setting us up for the gospel, which is good. I mean, that's nice when it does, sometimes I get frustrated when it does that because I want it to be a little bit harder to find. You know what I mean? I want to, I want to, I want a little more detective work. This doesn't require that much of us. But what we're going to hear on Sunday from the NAB, the new American Bible, the translation that we use at Mass, it's going to say wrath and anger are hateful things. JD, you said that, Kate, you read that. What it actually, I think the more fateful to the Greek is that it says wrath and some translations bear this out. It says wrath and anger are abominations, yeah, the sinner hugs them tight. And to me, that's, that's kind of a different thing, wrath and anger are their hateful things. Like you should not like these. They're a bad abomination is something else, right? Abominations suggest to me. These are things, I mean, so wrath and anger are hateful things. You should hate them. You should not like these. Abominations suggest to me, God hates these things, which just adds a bit of a gravity that this translation doesn't have. Wrath and anger are abominations. God hates wrath and anger because he knows where it leads. He knows what it does. He knows the imprisonment of the person that it actually causes, right? All of these things. But the sinner and isn't that a powerful imagery hugs them tightly. You can picture someone just holding on to something like I won't let this go. And so yeah, the vengeful, they're going to suffer the Lord's vengeance for you, remembers their sins in detail. God doesn't miss anything. So forgive your neighbors and justice when you pray your own sins are going to be forgiven. Can anybody nourish anger against one another, expect healing from the Lord? Really what we see, I think behind this and I don't think this is lost on Jesus. I think we see a little bit of background on our father prayer. I think it's sort of based in this that there is some reality in which we have to understand that God's forgiveness of our sins is tied up in some way of our forgiveness of other sins, right? Those are connected somehow. And before Jesus says that, I mean, he already I assume would have prayed and heard this from Syrac. This is a concept that's sort of there. Jesus is just putting sort of new flesh to it. So again, it's fairly straightforward. It's kind of anti-Hemarabi's code, right? What is the word? And I don't want to get ahead of myself because I want to talk about this in the gospel. But what does the world say the world says if someone hurts you you hurt them back and you go even further And then they're gonna and then you're gonna hurt them back And then they're gonna hurt you back and you just have the upping of the ante right eye for an eye tooth for a tooth I don't know about you guys growing up in a Boulder, Colorado a very kind of hippie place I always saw that and I like it. I like the I think it's Mahatma Gandhi This quote was used to be on bumper stickers when I was growing up and I for an eye and a tooth for tooth makes the whole world blind Eventually right yeah, which is I know it's it's Gandhi, but I mean it's a very Christo-centric idea But it's also just this is just wisdom like this is just Intuitive which is sort of what the wisdom literature is doing But it's reminding us hey look man whatever unforgiveness you harbor in your heart or wrath toward another You need to remember that God has not forgotten all of the things that you've done He nothing goes past his view. He knows everything and so we need to reflect on the forgiveness that God has offered us And then do likewise again. Jesus is gonna give a parable that puts flesh on that That kind of call to forgiveness seems to me to be something Which develops in in the Jewish biblical literature over time Develops and deepens over time perhaps do you think that's true like that by the time you get to see your act That's much more fleshed out than it would be In some of the earlier prophets um My my my knee jerk response is yes But I'm hesitant Partially just because we've already talked about can enable and God is already trying to offset this with the cane story I mean after four of Genesis So so here's the thing about the wisdom literature and and in comparison to Jesus What the wisdom literature is doing is saying essentially if you if you kind of read on You should forgive other people sins so that things can go well for you You have to remember that God has already forgiven you and that's a good thing right but you should do these things I mean we've talked about the proverbs right the kind of hobby lobby nice, you know, pillow Crochetes of you know, you should do these nice things so it goes well for you Be just in business so that you have success forgive other people so that your life goes smoothly right and that's true That's all a hundred percent true But I think what Jesus is going to do is really begin to unpack Doing those things with no benefit with no perceivable sort of earthly benefit to yourself, right? And that's one of I think the major development So yeah, I think this is developed as time goes on and the wisdom literature kind of begins to unpack it Maybe more than earlier in the sort of biblical writings or tradition But I think if we go back with hindsight we can find all the ways God has already been saying this Yeah, but maybe understanding or the well, and that's that's part of the reason I asked is because The thing that we do in the church the so-called development of doctrine in the church is the Is the un the deeper unpacking of the positive faith of the thing that was already there Right, and I actually I was thinking about that here because it seems to me that the way we talk about forgiveness And even the way that the Lord talks about forgiveness rather than being in some kind of profound discontinuity Is instead a deeper kind of unpacking in the same way that we'll you know that we unpack the deposit faith and it's entire Yeah, no, I think that's really well said. Maybe that's why I was sort of allergic to the idea that this had developed in some sort of But I mean, but yeah, not in a way that would be yeah In a rupture so to speak yeah, yeah, yeah, the development is the way that we actually saw what was already there Yeah, I'm all I'm all I'm all about that Yeah, no, I think that's true. I think that's up and that's the task of the wisdom writers Yes, wait a second. We have done all these things. I mean we've fallen into grave sin We've broken the covenant we've been a stiff-necked people But I mean the reality is everything is so utterly and totally broken. What did we miss? What did we not understand? What did we not get and how do we go back through the story and try to figure out why is this happening to us So yeah, I'm I think I agree with you shady. That was a long way around it. I agree All right, cool. You're not a stupid man who I'm going to go away from I'm not going to watch for a chance to live. I'm looking for a chance It's just one reading this week We Response royal psalm Honestly, guys, I don't have a ton to say because again, it's fairly intuitive. It's pretty straightforward Psalm 103 it's the superscription is it's a psalm of David we don't know it's that mean David wrote it Perhaps is it sort of in the spirit of the Davidic story. I don't know It does seem to be liturgical in the sense that it was probably a hymn sung in temple worship And what it's about I mean again this this sort of makes sense sort of gimme from the church It's a psalm singing and praising God and celebrating his compassion on us as sinners And then secondarily his compassion on us as sinners because We're frail mortals and he understands that and he knows the word of the kind of people that need Compassion poured out on us. So again, if you can got a picture the the liturgical context We're offering our gifts to God. We're offering our sacrifice. We're praying outside of the temple And we're constantly remembering thank you God for remembering us receiving our offering because you know how frail We are you know how broken we are you know how we have let that croucher at our into our houses so many times So bless the Lord on my soul praise his name forget not his benefits because he redeems you from destruction He crowns you with kindness and compassion his wrath doesn't exist forever Not according to our sins does he deal with his he dealt with this according to our sins then we'd all be hosed Nor does he require us according to our crimes etc etc So again, it's kind of a gimme. It's it's definitely Right in line with the first reading But it's it's all setting us up for the gospel So I don't have a whole lot more to say about that other than its liturgical. It's defeating And it's just remembering yeah, God you forgive our sins like nobody's business. Thank you for that It's really like beautiful because the first reading I don't know reading like that the Lord remembers their sins in detail It's hard to not hear that and think like Oh, he's always remembering you know what I mean like if I sleep up He's gonna you know, it just you can approach It's hard to think about God in his nature and not With the nature of human like like other people around you. I guess if that makes sense like Yeah, I do or it does and I think I think we have to be a little bit careful here because I mean, I'm sure a lot of us have heard you know lots of stories their stories from the saints right? There's one particular saint story. I'm trying to remember who it was Somebody who saw Jesus or was conversing with Jesus and a priest who was like if you really if that's really true Ask him to tell me what I said at my last confession. Do you guys know the story? I don't think I know that one though And she said that Jesus said I forget Which was No, you know, it's it's cute and it's obviously making the point of like And then Isaiah says as far as the east is from the west there are sins are from us when he's forgiven us and And that confession really does get rid of ourselves like it truly does But I don't think that's in conflict or contradiction to what the first reading is saying Which is the Lord never forgets which is not which can sound right like you said kid that can sound terrifying I'm like, but wait a second. I thought in confession. It's like they're wiped away and God just forgets all of our sins I mean, we're putting human human words and emotions and stuff with this what the first reading is saying is not like God's always gonna remember you watch your back because he's oh, yeah, he could pull it out any minute That's not what the first reading is about It's simply saying when you approach the us again We need the gospel reading to unpack this But when you harbor these resentments when you refuse to let go of an anger or hurt from another Because you're like well, I'm never ever gonna forget just but just remember like God God has done that for you. He has it. He knows exactly what you've done And yet he's forgiven you anyway the remembering is you need to remember how severe and dire and grave these things are And God knows it and yet he has still forgiven you and yet he has still set you free And yet you can still move forward and freedom. It's not meant to bind us in fear. It's meant to force us to not bind each other in fear more than yes I don't know if that makes sense, but this notion that yeah God our sins are done and gone when we confess them Is not in opposition to the first reading I suppose Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, so there you go. Well, we should take a break and then we can get to Romans and Matthew Thank you and welcome pillar listeners. I am Archbishop Salvatore Cordolloni the Archbishop of San Francisco And I am preparing to launch the Reverend Liturgy project A very exciting new project of the Benedict the 16th Institute The vision of the project is nothing less than the renewal of the church in America And I need your help to do it The core of the Reverend Liturgy project is to take the practical wisdom of priests who have successfully moved to Reverend Liturgy in their parishes and worshiping communities and offer it to priests who want to embark on the same journey But need a roadmap to get started I can think of no more important work So if you are a priest who has successfully moved toward more classically Catholic worship practices Or a priest interested in more Reverend Liturgy bit in need of practical help to implement changes We need you Visit ReverendLiturgy.org to learn more Reverend Liturgy is not about aesthetics or preferences It is about offering the mass in ways that make it clear to all present What is truly happening at the mass Outward visit signs matter because we are embodied souls, not angels. 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Thank you for your prayerful consideration of this request. May our lady keep you close to her immaculate heart, today, and always. Okay, we are back, everybody. None of us lives for oneself. We were just talking about that in the commercial break, actually. The things one does. No one dies for oneself, because Dr. Powell was telling us a story about his daughter who plays lacrosse, needing a stand in goalie. Dr. Powell's younger daughter got a big sweatshirt and filled it with stuffies, as the kids say, with squish mellows for him to use his goalie padding, but it didn't, your telling us it didn't work. And a bike helmet and a Styrofoam pad on my face. No, they found any piece of exposed flesh and just bruised it. Lacrosse balls are hard, you guys. Lacrosse balls are really, really hard. Yeah. I have about, in our pitching, in our batting practice bucket, we have about four lacrosse balls that I mix in there. Oh, because I love watching them fly off the bat, but also their little, you know, so it's nice to mix it up. But yeah, they're hard. I've been hit. They're hard. I've been hit with them. Yeah, it's not fun. Not fun. Okay, none of us live for oneself. No one dies for oneself. For if we live, we live for the Lord. And if we die, we die for the Lord. And so whether we live or die, we are the Lord's. For this is why Christ died and came to life, that he might be about the Lord of the dead and the living. But of course, this is exordatory, not, not, it's not descriptive. It's exhortatory because there may well be people in the, in the Roman church who are living for themselves or dying for themselves in St. Paul's saying, that's not who we are. So that here's the thing. Yes, that's, that's totally true. And that's why it's true. You didn't like that. No, I loved it. I fully agree. The problem with, I mean, look, the lecture area is, is wonderful. It's one of the greatest gifts, I think of kind of the post Vatican II era, the three years cycle, like the way that we do this is great. But you guys know, like anytime you have to chop up and piece mail out something that is meant to be one continuous narrative, a letter, you're going to miss stuff. And yeah, so we want to read this as like, well, no one lives for himself. If we die, we die for the Lord. If we live, we live for the Lord, that this is like for all people, for all time, this is just a universal statement of like, well, we are all the Lords and everything's great. And you're like, well, wait a second. That's, that's not true. What about the people who aren't, you know, are living for this? I assume it was meant to be extraordinary, but you're going to say there's another way to read it. No, no, I just want to put it in a very specific context. And yeah, I just all I want to do is for just a minute to unpack the specific context. So we've been in Romans for a long time. I love it. I mean, we've had weeks of just going straight through. We've jumped a little bit here and there, but it's all been pretty linear. Last week, I think we were talking about, first of all, Paul's sort of understanding of how we interact with the world at large, right, with the Roman government and paying taxes and all these things and sort of how he thinks through those things and how God is always in charge. And we shouldn't be anarchists. And now we get to sort of where the rubber meets the road. And chapters 14 and 15 is where Paul finally, it's a very long letter, gets to the so what of the letter. And we remember, of course, that the context, I mean, that the occasion for the letter was not just Paul just was thinking about theology one day. And I'm like, I better write them a letter about theology. It's that he's trying to deal with a problem. It's a pastoral letter, right? Where he's trying to deal with a problem in this church of Rome, where they're fighting, there's ethnic disputes, serious ethnic fighting over who should be in charge, who should rule, who is superior to whom, right? The Jewish Christians or the Gentile Christians, the Jewish Christians, if history is to be believed, had recently been expelled all of the Jews, including Jewish believers in Jesus, had been expelled from the city of Rome by the emperor Claudius because of rioting over fighting publicly over all of these things, who the Christ was and all these things. They've recently come back, but they found out that now in their absence, the church has become very, very Gentile, which is unusual because the church was a Jewish reality. I mean, they didn't see themselves as I'm teaching a class on St. Paul. I just started this year and I've made a big stink about how I don't were talking about Damascus, the road to Damascus. And I don't think what Paul had, he would ever call a conversion, right? Paul doesn't see himself moving from one religion to another religion. He simply sees himself as a Jew, whose Messiah has now come, the thing we've been waiting for. So that's really problematic for these Jewish Christians coming back home. They're like, wait a second. It has got actually forgotten about us, as he moved on. Why did so many of us reject the Messiah? These Gentiles, they're the priests, they're the leaders, they're the bishops, they're the house church leaders. It's their food at the potluck. There's a bunch of pork chops and this is disgusting to us. I mean, all the layers of strife that you can imagine. And so Paul is sought to prove that God has not changed his mind, that God does what he set out to do and that the family of God from the beginning was always designed to be this way. So you need to get on board because this is the way in which the promises to Abraham, that his descendants would be a blessing to all the nations. This is the way that it's playing out. So all that being said, how do you live with each other? What do you do day-to-day? And I just want to back this up so we're in Romans 147. I'm going to back it up to the very beginning of this chapter and just unpack a couple things. He begins by saying, okay, as for the man who is weak in the faith, welcome him. Not for disputes over opinions, though. So one man believes he can eat anything while the weak man eats only vegetables. So let him who eats despise, not him who abstains and let him who abstains, not past judgment on him who eats, forgot his welcome to him, who the heck are you to pass judgment on him, who on the servant of another? It's before his own master that he stands and falls. It goes on from there. The weak and the strong. It seems like this comes out of nowhere. You're like, Paul, you had some great theology and then you're like, okay, now there's these weak people who only eat vegetables. All these weak vegetarians who are floating around the church in Rome, stop making fun of your weak vegetarian friends. And you're like, wait, what, what do you, what, where did that come from? What is going on here? Does Paul think vegetarians are weak? We're not, okay, who are the, we had a whole season of Sunday school about Romans. And I don't know if you guys remember what I proposed to you, who these weak people in the church community eating only vegetables are? Who would, who, who cares about food dietary restrictions in that community? The Jewish teachings. Okay. And what food restrictions do they care about? Do they, do Jews not eat meat? They don't eat meat and milk together. They keep kosher. They keep kosher. They don't eat certain kinds of meats. They don't eat certain combinations. But this is saying they eat only vegetables. So here's what I'm proposing. Here's what I, I think you can do. It's not there's so many others who've said this. If the Jewish community was exiled, they were, they were cast out of Rome for four or five years, something like that six years. They were cast out for a long time when they come back all of the Jewish infrastructure is gone. And of course, they're very concerned about food that is kosher. Now, we know in the new covenant, in the New Testament, they are dispensed from the food laws. We saw that back in Acts chapter 10, when Peter is told, you know, rise Peter, kill and eat nothing is unclean. You can't call things unclean that I have cleaned, which has more to do with Gentiles than food, but it applies to the food too. But again, if you're a Jew and you have spent your entire life eating only kosher, and this is your habit, this is your practice, certain foods are probably disgusting to you. And you're going to eat the diet that you have. That's not a moral standing. It's just what you do. And so I imagine that there's a lot of Jews, Jewish Christians, believers in Jesus who've come back, and they're like, there's no kosher meat sellers. There's no kosher grocery stores anymore. I don't know where my meat has come from. I don't trust this. This is how I was raised. Fine, I get it. Jesus has cleansed all the meat, but I'm not going to have a piece of shrimp, because that's gross to me. So maybe they've resorted to just like we're just eating vegetables. And that kind of makes sense to me at least for a time. And then I can imagine a bunch of non-Jews, Gentile Christians who are like, oh, look at these idiots. Look at these guys. Just mocking them, making fun of them. There was like, you guys, I'm going to say something that's a little vulnerable. There was a period of my life that I chose to be a vegetarian for all sorts of different reasons. And there were reasons for that. There was dietary and romantic reasons that I chose to be a vegetarian. It's always romantic reasons. It wasn't not romantic, but you can bet that he's doing it for some dogs. So many. So many of my good, you know, faithful cows. like friends, just mocked me. And I think it was good spirit, but you know, there's a time that it gets old. So that's a very small thing, but like I can imagine the scene. I'm like, oh my gosh, you guys are such as, first you get kicked out. Now you can't even eat the food. Like what, what, you know? You only can have your gluten free organic. Like again, you can imagine whatever mockery. So we almost don't expect Paul to get this concrete, this kind of like nitty gritty everyday life. Like stop making fun of people who don't want to eat the meat because they don't trust where it can't, stop it, stop making fun of people for that. And we are surprised I think sometimes when Paul gets that in the weeds of people's lives, until you remember, no, this isn't a theological treatise, this is a pastoral letter that's meant to get in the weeds of people's lives. That's the whole point of it. And so Paul is saying, and I know we're not to the point where we're getting the reading, but this is sort of what sets it all up. And he's like, look, stop despising one another. Stop having this creates this strife. There's something crouching at your door. And now it's a resentment, it's a mockery. And on the flip side, I'm sure the Jewish community is like just, I mean, can you imagine the hatred that's just turning back at them? Like you guys don't, like this is our, Moses told us to do this. Like it's not just like, oh, this is our preference. Moses commanded us, we've been doing it for thousands of years, you guys. Like where have you been when we were following the covenants? I'm like, it's just God here. It's just God here. Like again, I can just picture this so much. And Paul then says like, you can't pass judgment on someone who is someone else's servant. So in other words, if they are steeped and if their habitual practice is kosher meat, it's because their ancestors were actually faithful. Like that's where that comes from. It's comes from faithfulness. So stop mocking them. Yes, you're free in Christ to eat pork. Cool. Don't beat one another over ahead with your new freedom. That's the idea. And then he goes on. There's another example in verse five. He says, or on another hand, one man esteems one day as better than another while another man esteems all days alike. Who do you think the man who is esteeming one particular day better than another is? Oh, the Sabbath. It's probably the Sabbath, right? Which, now I'm a little bit confused historically and maybe someone will point this out to me in our comments or something. I don't know exactly when it became dogmatic that we are required to worship on Sunday. So I imagine there's a period of kind of weird gray area of like, well, way, the Sabbath was the day, the primary day for worship. Jesus rose on Sunday. So maybe that should be the primary day for worship. It's unclear to me exactly when that definitively became, became required. I thought it was in the first and second century because of the mass was understood as being a commemoration of the resurrection. Probably. But again, even in that, like there's no, I don't know when it became like, therefore, the old Sabbath is no longer binding. Therefore, you don't have to worship on Sunday. So I can just imagine like, okay, this is a bit of a weird period. And so you're making fun of your Jewish brethren who are still honoring the Sabbath. Like, well, we do Sunday now, like, get on board, man. Paul's like, dude, they're gonna worship on Saturday. They're still, maybe they're still recognizing the Jewish feasts in the old calendar, right? I think we can do some of these things and you're like, and you're mocking them for still recognizing Yom Kapoor. Like, that's dumb, you're recognizing people who are still celebrating an ancestral feast that recalled God's forgiveness toward us. Like, what are you doing, guys? And that's where we kind of drop in. He who observes the day, oh, this is right before this, he who observes the day, he observes it in honor of the Lord. This is why you know this isn't a universal thing. We're not saying like, everybody who honors any particular day, they're obviously doing it for the Lord. No, I don't think people who are like, sun worshiping and like, I don't think Paul's giving some universal statement like any kind of worship of anything is fine. No, he's talking to them and he's talking to particular people who might still be hung up on worshiping on the Sabbath and other people mocking them for it. He's like, no, if they're worshiping on the Sabbath, it's because they come from a culture that is steeped in following what God has asked them to do. And so if he's observing that day, he's observing it for the Lord. If he's eating, he's eating for the Lord because the Lord has set him free from the food laws. If he's abstaining, he's abstaining for the Lord because the Lord has asked their people to not eat these meats up. I mean, do you see what he's saying? He's getting very, very tangible, very in the weeds of life. And that, you guys, is where then we drop in and he says, look, none of us is living just to himself and none of us is dying to himself. If we live, we live to the Lord. If we die, we die to the Lord. So then whether we live or whether we die, we are the Lord's. That is not some big universal crocheted on a pillow statement. He's saying there's these people who are really struggling with what does right worship mean now that my entire world has changed. But they're striving, they're trying to live for the Lord. They are trying to die. And you're gonna be dying soon at the hand of Nero and you're gonna die for the Lord. So this community cannot afford to be quibbling over these matters. I think it's what he's getting at. Which has everything to do with forgiveness, resentment, mockery, all the things that the first reading is actually getting toward that become this virus that overtakes our souls and imprisons us in all sorts of ways. Do not allow the crowd sure to get in there is what he's getting at. So I think it fits really beautiful, but we gotta get a little bit of the context, right? - Yeah, absolutely. - Here's the gospel, okay. So NKU, we're not with us, but I mean, you edited this podcast. So I assume you had to deal with us to some degree. Last time, I tried to make a case, and I give a talk about this actually recently. So some newly ordained priests and it was a huge gift. And I said it was actually less of a talk and more of kind of like almost a Bible study, but we just walked through all of Matthew 17 and 18. And I just tried to demonstrate these things are all connected. They're such a linear movement that Jesus is doing. When he calls the child into their midst and then he says, "Don't cause these little ones to sin like he's talking about them." This is an ecclesial statement. This is how we live life together in the church. And you know, he unpacked out what deadly seriousness we need to take one another's souls with and not being a stumbling block to someone else. I mean, it fits so well. Again, with that second reading from Romans. And then he gets to this sort of point where he's like, look, but I know. I know, says Jesus, that, you know, what do you, because the world is steeped in sin? What about the brokenness of the world? You're gonna hurt one another. You're going to be broken with one another. So when that happens, he gave us a step-by-step instruction manual for how to deal with it. Go to your brother first. Don't forgive and forget. Don't pretend it didn't happen. And also don't be a doormat, right? That's not what forgiveness is for Jesus. Just like, well, I guess I'll just overlook and pretend that my feelings weren't. No, take it seriously. Go and talk to your brother, like go and actually confront because Jesus is saying, your hurt does matter. Your hurt matters to me. And go and talk to your brother. If he receives you awesome, if he doesn't, go and get somebody else. And one of two things is going to happen, right? Either they're going to be like, yeah, you're kind of an idiot. Like you're taking this too hard. You're overreacting, maybe you need to kind of like pull it back a little. Or they'll say, yeah, no, you're right. Let me go and talk to you with him. And if that doesn't work, again, go and get the church. Go and talk to the bishop. Talk to your pastor, right? Bring the church in, and if they still don't do it, then treat him as a tax collector or a Gentile. In other words, start from the beginning. So we talked about that all last week. But that's important because that's exactly where we left off. And Jesus gives this kind of, again, step-by-step manual. Here's how you deal with it. When you inevitably hurt one another, when you allow that resentment and that brokenness. And here's how you offset it so that that croucher doesn't continue to get you. You got to deal with it. And then Peter walks up, get all Peter, right? Who kind of started this whole thing in the first place when he gave Jesus some bad advice. He's like, no, I don't think this is a good idea. At all, you know, all these things Peter did. Then he comes up and again, we got to remember these aren't coming in a vacuum. These aren't coming out of nowhere. Jesus just said, here is the real hard work of actually reconciling with your brother. Here's the hard work that you actually have to go through this process because it matters. It matters for their soul. It matters for your soul. And then there's a surprise that Peter walks up and he's like, but I mean really Lord, how many times do I actually work out? - When do I just scrub this guy for my life? - When is it not enough? And there's a context like this isn't out of nowhere. He's like, but how far? But I want to really give credit to what Peter is saying. So Peter approached Jesus, he says, look, I get what you're saying. But if my brother sends me, how many times do I have to do this? Seven times? And I think we're tempted to sort of write Peter off and like, man, what an idiot. Like, you have your little check box. So there's little things that the cartoon people always did in prison, you know what I mean? Like the-- - In prison? - I'm picturing like Tom and Jerry in a prison cell. And they have the lines and then-- - Oh, oh, I don't know. Like they're carving it into the wall, yeah, yeah, yeah. - Yeah, yeah. - They're keeping a tally, that's right. - They're keeping a tally, that's just what's in my head. As many as seven times, so it's like, okay, it's number six. Like now I'm almost done. I don't think that's what Peter's saying at all. What does seven mean in the hebraic mind? - Covenant. - Covenant, why? It's the word that's used for a covenant, but it's because of what the word means. What does seven mean? Perfect number. It's not a perfect number. Three is more akin to the perfect number. - Why is it used for covenants? What is a covenant? - You make a promise to each other. - An exchange of persons, how much of the person? - The entirety of the person. - The totality of the person. The complete, this is why it's a covenant word, because in a covenant you give oneself in totality. The seven days of creation are put in terms of seven, because on day seven it is total, it is complete, right? That's worse, the whole etymology. seven. So I think what Peter is saying, he's not just having a tally. I think Peter's saying actually something really profound. Do I have to forgive in totality? Do I have to forgive entirely? And I think, and again, far be it for me to put words in Peter's mouth. But what it seems to me, Peter's more saying, I think Peter's wrestling with the limits of forgiveness. Like, what is total forgiveness mean, Jesus? I see what you're saying. I see how serious you're asking us to take this. What are the limits of total and complete forgiveness? What is what is seven? What does it mean to totally forgive as many as seven times how how must I do that? How often? How does it look like? I don't think he's getting it tally. I think that's to discredit Peter. I think he's trying whatever he's saying exactly. He's wrestling with the limits of total forgiveness. What does that mean, Jesus? And he's like, oh, seven, I'll Peter, you don't understand what you're saying is something true. You're talking about totality. You're talking about completeness. But I'm saying, I'm not asking you to forgive completely. I'm asking you to forgive divinely. I'm asking you something totally different. I'm asking you to go way beyond what your brain even has the capacity for. Seven times seven seven. So either depending on manuscript tradition, it's either seven times seven times or 77 times. And again, there's they're they're much more similar and Hebrew than they seem in English. That's a direct quote. There's only one other time that those those exact words are used in the Bible. Anybody know? No. Oh, oh, this is great. Okay. It comes in a Genesis chapter four. So we talked a little bit about it. I can't enable right the croucher. I as I steal so many things. I stole it from from Tim Ecky and and John Collins Bible project guys. I just love the image of the croucher. But right after the croucher scene, we have Cain and Abel Cain doesn't he lets the croucher in. He kills Abel and then we get this first kind of big genealogy, right? The list of names and Cain had this son and he was named this and then he had a son named this and he had a son named this. You guys remember this chapter four? And the text slow this long genealogy slows down in the sixth generation for a really famous guy named Lamek. Do you guys remember Lamek? Does that name ring Abel? Yeah. Lamek. JD, you probably call him Lamek because you're from Jersey. But Lamek, he totally rings about. Yeah. Lamek, Lamek, Lamek, uh, sixth generation. He is significant because he's the first poet in the Bible. He's the first one to sing a song and he sings a song that's pretty horrific. And he, well, we find out about Lamek. So again, we're just kind of trucking through this genealogy of Cain who we already know is his let the bloodthirsty vengeance of Cain crouch into his heart. And then six generations later, he has sent a name Lamek and it says in the text Lamek, by the way, took two wives and all of a sudden you're like, well, that's that's a first. Nobody has done that before. That doesn't sound great. Lamek took two wives and gives their names and then it comes home one day from work and he's like, hey, wives, listen to Lamek. Listen to what I have a poem I want to sing to you. And he's like, I just killed a guy for striking me. I killed a guy for looking at me wrong. And that's how much rapid. And when I hear that, we're so blown. Sorry. Yeah, it is. Wait, wait, I killed. I shot a man in Reno just to watch him die. Yeah. That's a very Lamekish statement, right? Yeah, it is, isn't it? And he said, look, if Cain, do you remember Cain, God Cain is terrified for his life after he kills Abel. Do you remember this whole thing? He's like, man, everyone's going to hate me and they're going to want to kill me. God shows profound mercy on Cain. He's like, no, I'm going to protect you. I'm going to give my mercy. And Lamek is like, yeah, I remember that God sort of avenged Cain and showed his mercy. If Cain was avenged sevenfold in totality, I am avenged 77fold or seven times seven. What he's saying is my wrath, my violence is boundless. My hatred, that croucher, bring him on. Bring him on in because that's, I mean, this is the Bible's understanding of human brokenness. This is the world as it is. This is what we do when we allow the brokenness of sin and that croucher and wrath and resentment to feed. We become Lamek's. And Lamek is the natural conclusion of a world broken by sin. Boundless violence, boundless hatred and wrath. And he becomes emblematic. Lamek is emblematic of that. That's the only time that word construction is used. So what Jesus is saying is, you know how for Lamek, wrath and violence was boundless? I want you to be the kind of people for whom forgiveness and mercy is boundless. You are to be the anti-lamek people. You are to be the kind of representatives of the totality of God's love, just like Lamek represented the totality of human brokenness and sin that led to the flood. That's who you're supposed to be, but he's got a really specific context. And then I can imagine Peter, you know, with a clueless look on his face. And he's like, all right, it's like this, Peter. It's like this guy. He brings the guys together. And then we get this parable. And so I'll just tell it to you very quickly. This is why the kingdom of heaven may be likened to a king. So in other words, it's like this. Remember parables, we've talked about parables. Parables are usually not just to make things easier to understand. There is something that we need to wrestle through and try to understand what does it mean to live in the kingdom. So it's like a king. And this king one day decided to settle accounts with his servants. And then when he began the accounting, a debtor was brought to him, some servant of him, who owed a huge amount. And he had no way of paying it back. So his master ordered him to be, oh, you guys know, is it a terrible translation? I think it just skips over how much he owed, which is a key part of the story. Oh, you scriptures. Okay. Let me, I got to read it in the different one. Okay. Kingdom of heaven, maybe likened to a king who wished to settle accounts with the servants. He began the reckoning. One was brought to him who owed what the text says is 10,000 talents. I think we translated as a huge amount. Have I, have I ranted to you guys before I've gotten my, on my soapbox about talents before? I don't think so. Okay. Talent. Here's why I don't like the word talent. Talent is a Greek word that for some reason in the Bible, in most of our translations, almost all of them just goes untranslated. We just decide not to translate that word. Talent. And I get really grumpy about it when we read about the parable of the talents. Do you remember that whole thing where the people bury it in the ground? And because we're not very publicly informed people, I think a lot of people think like, okay, well, if I've been given a talent and like I'm really good at juggling. I haven't talent for encouragement. But if you don't encourage, you're going to burn in hell is what the conclusion of that is. That's actually not what the parables about. Talents don't mean like talents and like, I can juggle really well. Talent is. Singer. Singer. Most every good Bible, I'm sold, I'm totally a geek on this stuff. You guys every good Bible or most good Bibles should have a table of weights and measures in the back. And I just want a favorite part of the Bible. Yeah, because that's how you know. A talent. Does anyone, anyone want to wager a guess at what the word talent means? How much is a talent? What else? It's an undefined, extraordinarily large amount. So in other words, when it says that undefined, it's just a huge amount of money. But that's why I guess I'm a little more sympathetic to the NAB's translation. He owed him a huge amount, but it doesn't, it doesn't capture it. A talent. So in other words, the parable of the talents, the master just gave each of these people massive amounts of money. Some of them invested the rest buried in the sand, right? Massive amount. Here's a massive amount of money. It's undefined like bat. I think it's the NIV. The New International. It's the crap ton. Crap ton is a good translation. NIV just translated as bags of gold, which I picture like the Lego guy, you know, like the Lego criminal guy who has the bags of gold. Anyway, bag of gold, like massive amount. Crap ton is, I think, what Shady said, which is I feel weird saying that on a podcast. How many, how many number to it then? If it's a lot, I mean, because they'll actually use that and communicate, you know, like, no, Jesus is making a talent from. He's making a joke because a talent is just an enormous sum of money, just enormous sum. And how many enormous sums of money does this guy owe? It's like, it's like my kids saying, I love you a million trillion. Yes, that's it. But he's making a joke like, but he's making a joke like, like how many millions of times? A billion, a bajillion dollars. How many gazillion's does he owe? 10,000 gazillion. Like bajillion gazillion. How many zillions can you add? That's how many? That's the idea. Now you get, now you get the joke. It's not a joke in like the sense of like, this is no, you know, but you know what I'm saying? Like, yeah, it's a shame when we, he owes a huge amount, like that could be anything. Jesus says he owes him a bajillion dollars. And he wants you, like, that's important to the story. Anyway, so I don't mean to dwell on this unnecessarily, but that's a really important part of the parable. So we owes a bajillion dollars or a bajillion zillion or whatever you said, Kate. And then the next line is just the gimme. And he had no way of paying a bag. Of course, not because it's a bajillion dollars. And again, it's a parable, right? How did he owe this amount of money? It's a parable. So his master ordered him to be sold because there's no way he's paying this back, along with his wife and his children and all of his property in payment of the debt. At that, the servant fell down, did him homage the king. And he said, oh, king, be patient with me. And I will pay you back in full. And how are you supposed to take that line? There's no way he can pay it. It's an empty promise. There's no way like you might, Kind of feels and see, you know, we've all been in desperate situations. You're like, "No, I'll figure it out." "Surely, I'll figure it out, like yeah." But that's kind of the, I mean, that's, I don't want to say joke, joke doesn't sound right. But that's, like, that's the irony. Like, "No, you won't. There's no way." And before we even go on, do you catch the analogy? Do you see why Jesus is telling you the parable based on the first reading? And this is where the church really gives it to us. What is the bajillion dollars for us? It's our sin. It's our sin. We are indebted to the bajillionth level, because we're broken, we're a mess, right? We're meant to see ourselves. You owe a bajillion dollars, you know, so to speak. The world does. The brokenness of Adam. So he's, "I'm not going to pay it back in full. Moved with compassion." Which, it's funny, because you could, you could see the master being like, "Yeah, whatever, dude." But he's moved with compassion. He's moved with pity. The master said to that servant, "All right, let him go. He forgave the bajillion dollars." And you're like, "Oh my gosh, that is crazy. The amount of mercy that you have just shown." He forgave it. And then when that servant had left, he went out and he found one of his fellow servants who owed him 100 denari. Again, it said, "A less sermon." Oh my gosh, my gosh, Bible. Translation, he owed him 100 denari. 100 denari is a, I don't know, equivalent to like a thousand, like a thousand, a couple thousand dollars. Not nothing. It's like concrete. It's a lot, but it's not a bajillion. It is not a bajillion, and that's what you're meant to see. He owes him, yeah, a thousand dish died. I don't know what the conversion to be. He owes him some dough. And he seized him. He started to choke him, demand like he's got him in his throat, demanding payback what you owe, falling to his knees, his fellow servant begged him, verbatim, word for word. Be patient with me and I will pay you back, but he was used. Instead, he had that fellow servant put where? In prison. In prison until when? Until he did pay back the debt. Okay, think about this for a second. Originally, the king, the original master, he wanted the wife and the children sold into slavery, all the property liquidated, you know, pay back some of the debt, I suppose. This guy, who is owed like a thousand dollars, he wants the servant, first of all, he tries to choke him, then he throws him in prison. What is the thing? What is the one precise thing you cannot do if you're sitting in prison? You can't work. Can't pay back the debt. You can't do anything. There's nothing you can do. So part of what Jesus is trying to show us is what the crouching of this resentment, this hatred, this unforgiveness actually does to us. We in prison, he makes a completely irrational choice and all of a sudden, and again, maybe we've experienced this, maybe we're not conscious of this, but we've all, I think, had these moments where it's actually not about this in anymore, like it's not about the hurt anymore. There's just times where you're like, I'm just so angry, I need somebody to pay, I just want you to feel the hurt that I feel. I don't know, I mean, I'm not going to give an example because we all have a million examples in our own lives, but it becomes irrational. It becomes insanity, like, you can't, nothing good comes out of that. He's not going to be able to pay you back whatsoever, and this is a guy who actually maybe could pay you back in some, you know, some way. But it doesn't even matter. I just need you to hurt. I just need you to have pain, right? It's an irrationality. That's what the croucher does to us. Now, his fellow servants saw this, and they were deeply disturbed, so they went, because they heard about this, so they went to the master, they reported the whole affair, and his master's ticked. Some of them said, you wicked servant, I forgave your entire debt. I know how much you owed. Remember, this is the remembrance of God. I know exactly to the penny, how much gazillions you owed, but because you begged me, I had pity on you, I forgave you, and you couldn't have pity on your fellow servant, just as I had pity in you, then in his anger, his master handed over to the torturers until he should pay back the whole debt, and I get the impression that there's no way to do that, so it probably is until he died. So will my Heavenly Father do to you, unless you forgive your brother from your heart. There are a million things we could do, and actually they had a great conversation with some of these newly ordained priests that I talked about this with the other night, about how this relates to hell, how this relates to, yeah, eternal punishment, the eschaton, all these things, and there's lots of things you can do, there's lots of conversations to be had, but what I want us to see is that this is not the angry God who's just kind of capriciously damning people to hell. And if we can sort of deduce hell in here, what brings this guy to hell because he already put himself in hell to begin with, he already brought the hell to himself, and he lived in this insanity, and he receives the fruit of what he had done, his own insanity, lack of being able to release anything on someone else, while having fully received more giftedness than any human being is deserving of, could not actually give that to one another, so he put himself, and I'm not just saying like, oh hell's not right. Not real, it's just kind of this thing we live in our heart, I'm not saying that, I'm saying that the church has always understood no one finds themselves in hell by accident, no one finds themselves cut off from God, like, how did that happen, like we choose it, we choose it for ourselves, and what happens in this earth is going to inform what happens to us in the afterlife. Again, it's not a story about, like, there's no hell hell is just inside of you, no, but we make decisions that do this, so I mean, again, in the spirit of Jesus wanting us to take this stuff with utter and deadly seriousness, this is how we need to approach our relationships with each other, our forgiveness of each other, and if we don't become the anti-Lomic people, that Jesus is calling Peter to be, the seven times seven, or 77 times, we receive the fruit of the life of Lomic, which is what the Croucher. Which is what the resentment, the hatred, the unforgiveness, does to our own souls, and we disintegrate in entirety, and that's going to inform everything else, so I mean, Jesus, again, as he rounds out this whole kind of section on forgiveness, he wants to show you that when you don't forgive, when you don't go through these steps that I've laid out for you, you will go insane, and you will make insane decisions, and that is going to lead you to bad places. Do we know where the gospel goes next next week? Oh, I don't know if we could know, I don't know if there's any way for us to know, there's no way that we could know. The kingdom of heaven is like a landowner. Oh, chapter 20, and we jump to 20. Oh, you guys, the vineyard! That's going to be a good one. I just want to love the Bible so much. It's amazing that love, it's just a gift for me about the show, it's a gift to learn from someone from the depth of their love. And that can have a scripture, but it can also happen with liturgy, which reminds me about the sponsor of this week's episode of Sunday School, the Benedict XVI Institute's Reverent Liturgy Project, which offers the practical wisdom of priests who have successfully adopted classically Catholic worship practices, two priests who want to embark on that same journey, but need a roadmap to get started, you can visit reverentliturgy.org to learn more about that. For Sunday School, as it happens to be a production of Pilgrim Media, which is an energy production, but our executive producers, Kate Oliver, our Managing Editor, Michelle Rosa, Dr. Scott Powell is our Sunday School teacher and he loves the Bible so much, so do we. We're back next week in the vineyard.