The Perfect 10: Josh

These have become sort of some of my favorite dailies to record. I mean, you know, everybody likes the idea of a short one, but like I've said this before, like somebody I'm pretty sure was Anderson tossed out the idea of what if we did interviews with the panelists. And I love that idea, but I feel like doing stuff like this, the top five concerts and the top 10 perfect 10 is a better way to do it. We are a music podcast. And, you know, the regular episodes are cool because you get to find out why Josh loves this one band that we're talking about today. But when we really explore these perfect 10 albums, you're getting to understand what Josh considers a perfect 10 album and why this would be a perfect 10 album. And then you're exploring, you know, what which albums actually fit into that criteria. So like, it's doing double duty. It's providing content, which, you know, content is king, unfortunately. But also, I think you're getting a better look at the people that are, you know, that are filling our podcast with, with, you know, their love for a band. So, you know, the rules are, there are no rules. I mean, like, these are all kind of self contained as far as, you know, who you bring in and whether you double up on an artist or not. But, but we got to start with Josh. Like, what is it for you that makes an album perfect? May ends is really reducing it down to something that's probably not accurate, but you could have the songs. It's all well and good to have, you know, strong themes in albums and sounds. But if the songs aren't there and the melodies aren't there, then, you know, you're not going to have those repeated listens. So, for my own, like, obviously, at first that the song craft of these albums, I like most, if not all the songs on these particular albums, secondly, you know, sort of encasing these songs in interesting instrumentation. Because, you know, it's true what they say that you can have an acoustic song. Like, there might be bare bones and the melody is good and the chord progression is good and so forth. The song is always going to be great, but, you know, you can make the song even better if, you know, it sounds brilliant, it's produced well. The moods of the songs are great. So, I'll spoil its thoughts, the songs, and then secondly, you know, what instrumentation adds to what are already excellent songs. So, you know, for you, it starts with the songs. So, you know, a peek behind the curtains as we record this, you and I recorded our deaf dance eras episode, like, not even a week ago at this point. And I kind of tossed the idea, hey, would you be up for this perfect ten? And you, you seemed like you pretty much had it ready to go then a couple days later, you're like, yeah, I'm ready. So, you either have kind of already thought about this idea of what lands in your perfect ten, or you really just kind of, you know, just new. So, walk me through it. I'm going to get out of the way here. Start any way you wish if you had any kind of, you know, honorable mentions, you can throw them here. It's your world. I'm going to get out of the way. What are your perfect ten records? So, I think best of me to go for it chronologically because, you know, I don't want to peek between favorite children here, anything of the sort. But I suppose, like, if I go through when and how I got into these albums, I think it will give a bit more context to them. So, I think the first proper, you know, in quotation marks, a grown up album I got into as a younger fellow was Levinus Nevermind. Like, it's a popular album for a reason, like some of the best songs written in general. And I know a lot of Levinus fans, as always, you know, a real debate between Nevermind and Inu De Roe. And, you know, it's true that it could seem to prefer how Inu De Roe was recorded and how it sounded. But I just can't, like, from being a fan of these songs for 15 years and as a younger guy, you know, getting into more serious music, like, these songs still have replay value. Like, you know, the songs I've drained you and on a plane and, you know, even a single like, come as you are. Well, I've heard them 50,000 times. There's something, you know, undeniable about these songs and those melodies that, you know, still, like, while not be something that I pop on often, like, if I hear this album, I'm not skipping anything. And that's another kind of a great album for mine, is that the vast majority, if not all the songs are very good. And while I love Inu De Roe, I enjoy Bleach, like, I just, at the end of the day, I just think Nevermind has more great songs on it than Inu De Roe, in my opinion. I'm an Inu De Roe guy, but it can't be argued, the importance of Nevermind, just the way the musical landscape shifted with teen spirit. Like, I will never begrudge a Nevermind guy. I will never begrudge Nevermind because it's important. It is important in musical history. And it is important to music that I love. So it's, you know, while it isn't my favorite Nirvana record, it cannot, it's undeniable. As you mentioned, it just has the songs. And sometimes that's all it takes. Yeah, certainly. And look like I made a roof myself not to double up on any artist's albums throughout this list. Because Inu De Roe is not far at all behind Nevermind for mine. And, you know, a lot of the time I prefer to listen to Inu De Roe. But when I'm going back through my favorite songs, from my favorite artists, like, you know, I look, Nevermind for me is like a best of. And it's just one album. Yeah. It's amazing. And like, I can't remember I've read it somewhere, but for people like, I think Kurt actually said it, like, you should have saved some of these songs for other albums and just kept them. Just taking the pressure off himself because there's some songs that are not singles on this album that probably would have been popular on the radio. But they just happen to have a smells like teen spirit or a lyphium or come as you are in front of them. Like, you know, it just goes to show how many great pop songs, ultimately, are on that album. And at the end of the day, as a younger guy, you know, the first band I got into is a really younger guy. It was good Charlotte and Green Day. And like, they're, they're, their poppy bands just with flout guitars, really. And the vinyl, like, a more, you know, similar, better songs. And then I love both of those bands. But, you know, and a, like, a more serious version of that for me. So, you know, enough, I feel like a lot of people, young people, and I'm still seeing it now, some of the students I teach, like, you know, inevitably young people end up finding the vinyl and having that phase. And that's why I've sort of named that first here because that's like probably the end of all these albums. The first album I really got into and enjoyed of my and bat. I think what you just pointed out is why you, why anyone could make the case for never mind is in utero, I feel like you have to be a fan of the band to really love because for me, it's like the sounds, you know, like the sounds and the torment and Kurt's voice. But if you don't love the band, it doesn't do the same thing. And it's a lot easier to love the band with never mind. Yeah, it's just, it's less challenging and it's very immediate. You know, like heart-shaped box is probably a better song than anything I never mind, at least in terms of the singles. But still a more difficult listen, even though it's still got a great melody and everything like that for the casual listener, even though that was probably the most. pop. I don't want to say poppy but probably the biggest chorus on the album. It's still a lot more challenging than any of these Nevermind songs for a fresh listener. Yeah, so yeah, that was probably the first album I got into, sort of naturally, but like millions of other kids. And other enough, like what you hear me repeat a fair bit on this episode is, you know, two major ways I got into a lot of these albums or bands. One being I watched Beaves and Buttered a lot in my later teenage years and picked up a lot of bands or songs that I loved from that and then that pathway onto other music. Another being my cousin, the Fanniel, is nine years older than me and is always played in bands and been a big music head and got me into a lot of cool music that look pretty much like algorithms before, algorithms. For example, like I heard stars by hum on Beaves and Buttered, you know, they're only saying the opening section, the quiet part before the loud guitar comes in and it stops there. And I know I was spoken about this video before, but Beaves and Buttered are like kind of thrilled that the songs finished so fast. They didn't like the song, but they'll feel it's finished so fast. I'm like, and I remember being like, wow, like I love that, but it was only 20 seconds long. And I got into hum. If one Beaves and Buttered, you'd prefer a national. I just think this is this, this album is just perfect, like there is not a bad song on here, you know. Even a song like the very old man is very pretty and like that's a song that they said themselves was like, oh, this is kind of filler, trying to have a quiet moment on this album, but like any album with songs like Little Dipper, The Pod, I mentioned stars. I hate it too. I'd like it here long, like while I like the Robbins, I love that song. Like it's amazing that all of these songs are in the same album, but like, and this album for mine sort of start off my own obsession, which you know, I haven't reached with my own music, but in terms of wanting to find in other bands, any bands that can make loud and discord and I'm not discord, but loud and heaviness down to beautiful. Like that is hard to do and hum, fucking hit it out of the park with this record. I know you love hum and I'd love to hear your experiences with this album as well, because I could speak about them forever. Well, I've said this, you know, at Nazim, and this might be something to explore with it with a daily at some point, but Little Dipper is what I sound like on the inside. Like if you've ripped Justin open, it sounds like Little Dipper. And, you know, hum may not be my favorite band. They probably have eaten their way into my top 10. I don't, I generally speak, don't get that far. But like I can recall, we used to have a house that was called 420. And because it was 420, we're all here having it. And we had a roommate in the back room and all I knew from hum was stars. The same introduction you had was I remember Beaves and Buzz had going, well, it sucked, but at least it's over. And then, and then, you know, hum, that song got quite a bit of airplane. I always liked that song. So I was like, okay, well, this is cool. And I always liked the sound and the chugging and the beautiful heaviness of it. Somebody brought that CD and we were sitting around playing poker and drinking and smoking weed. And Little Dipper starts. And I'm like, and while stars does kind of let you know that, you know, this is what the band is, it also doesn't. Like nothing can explain that those first chords, the bomb bomb, but like the just the way it swells in. And you're just suddenly like, whoa, like it's not just this joke band from Beaves and Buzz ahead, even though again, stars is a good song. Like it actually really is. I had grown tired of it at one point in my life. But, you know, you already mentioned all like the great stuff from it. Like I'd like your hair long. I hate it too. The pod, like all these great jams, but like it starts there. And it starts with this swell. And it starts with just heavy beauty and a weird story about outer space. Like truthfully, I, for a guy like me, I don't know what else I could ask for in a record. Yeah. And like Matt Talbot doesn't have what anyone would describe as like a beautiful voice, but he has such a cool voice. And like it's a, and I think and, you know, little Dipper has inspired so many songs. Yeah. Like, you know, obviously knife party by deaf tones, but hearing, talking about his voice like hearing Chino, spoke about his favorite albums and obviously white ponies even inspired by the cover of you prefer a national, but saying like, you know, Talbot's voice isn't a quiet taste, but it's so good and like the lyrics that I'm not someone that really listens to the lyrics unless they're fucking awful. Like one of my favorite bands is Blur, but their first album leisure, the lyrics are just like, it's like they lobotomized him. But like the lyrics are hum, are always really interesting and romantic and yet scientific at the same time. Like I haven't often heard that sort of mix like consciously, but the fact like I'm hearing these and he's got these like great melodies as well, even though he kind of doesn't talk, but he's, you have to listen to it to understand. But like, that's another thing like these, these lyrics like add so much more to the music and I'm not someone that usually cares about that, but Hummer a band that they're like, when I listen to lyrics, I'm like, wow, this is fucking great poetry on top of being a great songist and I've top of being a fucking heavy song in a lot of cases too. And the way they structure songs is really interesting too. And then sometimes he just hits you down the middle like, you know, like we're talking about, I'd like your hair long, like it's a waste of a song, you're a waste of my lungs, like that's not relatable, but obviously you fucking care so much about this person, but he's just like had enough of that particular moment. And I'm like, you know, I don't know, I just think this, this album has so many fantastic songs on it. It's honestly just about the album of the 90s for mine. Like, it's just so good. And I know, luckily, I think now so many people have said, I'm on the rate, I'm on the rate that probably now they're getting their proper juice. Yeah. Even that's like 30 years later. Yeah. Yeah. I think, I think people are finally on to them. And I mean, that's the great thing, the great thing about the awful state of the music biz is that we kind of just talked about this with never mind. The kids will find it. And yeah, go on to it and understand it because they'll get fed it. And it's both awful and beautiful. Like, it's not, it's not like, I'm a little bit older than you, waiting for the song on the radio and the radio, the algorithm telling you what, what the like, it's, it's a little bit more mathematical than that, which appropriate for him. Yeah. And like, just just before we, we, we, we stopped talking about home, just like, the fact that they come back after such a fucking long break with inlet, like this beautiful, but heavy and sludgey album. Like, yes. That little, that little late. I'll say, I will say to that cousin, the fan I was talking about before is just basically helped form my musical identity. But I'm like, I remember when they come out, I'm like, wow, it's like, it's like heavier sludgey but also like, dreamier and like, more shoe gazing, but not at the same time. Like, like, what a awesome album, like Lake Korea album and like, probably their last album with their drummer passing away. Like, what a way to go out just to drop that during COVID, like, not a lot good was going on at that time, but they like, blessed us with that album, you know, like, what a great band. I mentioned to him at this point of the episode because when I started uni, I started driving to my cousins place a lot. And he has like, you know, an encyclopedic knowledge of music. And I mentioned to him once when I was staying there late because I had my laptop there. And I'm like, oh, look, can you, he's like, because he had all his CDs. I'm like, look, I love home. Can you give me like some artists like Humm and over or like inspired by I sound like you know and while like it might be obvious like some of the a lot of the bands that I've gotten into for the years for him started out from that point but one of the albums he gave to me was was was cave in his Jupiter. Like real space rocky that their this just about is my favorite album ever. Like I'm out in 2000 they were like a hardcore band they were trying to move away from that sound because the vocalist Stephen Brosky he didn't want to kill his voice he was really struggling singing all the songs from their first record live because there's a lot of screaming and but what's amazing for me what still seems like a fairly pedestrian first album and then into Jupiter which this amazing space rock album but like an album with like big hooks and courses but then like these long meandering beautiful guitar sections and like real like big dynamic shifts and like every this song only had this album only has eight songs on it and I love every song even the instrumental you know like the song like I can understand while major labels sign them when you hear a song like Jupiter which has a really immediate chorus and big guitar hooks but then like it's so weird at the same time and Jupiter there in the stream of commerce have like this really distinctive while I think is cave in distinctive guitar sound they have this really it's like an octave pedal they play a lot of lead lines with it an octave up kind of like copying or sort of doubling the vocal melody with this octave pedal but it kind of disintegrates as well it's kind of like I don't know how to explain it but it's just it's I love that guitar sound so much and it's like on these songs it's kind of like Middle Eastern sounding like it's the best way to describe a Middle Eastern sounding melodies on these guitar lines and it's just like something that I hadn't often heard in rock ever and still still searching for bands that make albums like this like Jupiter in the stream of commerce big riff in your window and out the other Requiem a Requiem a new movie like all these songs are just amazing and like my cousin hit it out of the park recommended me that album and they finally toured Australia like I think 13 years after I got into this album and it was just amazing hearing some of these songs I always try to get anyone that shows any remote interest in alternative music into this album but I find that there are other bands I have to show them first it's kind of you kind of like given them bread crumbs leading them towards this point but yeah I yeah I love that that that album another band I got into through my cousin but I think I would have found my way there anyways DevTones and obviously we spoke the other day about Eros but I could have chosen any number of albums from DevTones from my favourite to put into this top 10 list it certainly changed over the years I haven't found memories a younger follower of I didn't realize at the time until later on my cousin was showing me DevTones but I would have been around 19 but I only hearing when I was much younger maneuver in the radio and loving it but not ever knowing who it was or what the song was called and in hearing that years later I was like finding like I don't know an old comfort blanket from when I was a kid because I used to listen to the radio before I went to bed and that song it must have been 2003 at the time but that song used to come on and I didn't know what that music was called or I couldn't explain why I liked that but like years later like listening to DevTones again you know self-titled is probably my favourite DevTones album and the cool thing about DevTones and I can say in your case as well because I know your favourite albums are different albums of that is that you could have five separate DevTones fans and they all have compelling reasons for why their favourite album is the best DevTones album like was did you say yours was Domida is a what pony I'm trying to well that's the thing is kind of to your point is it sometimes changes like you know if if you pressed me right now I'd probably say around the fur but I yeah it wouldn't take much for me to switch to white pony and it would not take much for me to switch to diamond eyes like yeah it could be any of those three for me yeah and like yeah that I think that just goes to show the quality of the band and they've done this with like members passing away and like real like a long time periods between albums like they've evolved but they're still always they've got the DevTones DNA in their music then you can tell it's them even though you might compare it to around the fur to like parts of diamond eyes and they might sound a lot different in other songs it's still you know unmistakably DevTones but I think the self titled for mine has become my favourite because I feel like the production is so good on this album and it's so extremely heavy in moments but it's so intensely beautiful at the same time and again it goes back to what I was saying before about what I loved about hum DevTones have certainly got that in their best moments and they'll make something that's like you know it's soul crushing like it's so heavy and like but it's beautiful melodies and weird melodies I don't know if you've seen the Rick Beato analysis of maneuver on YouTube he just talks about Chino's choices of melodies and how they're like not what you'd expect from a standard song and I'm like oh cool he's explaining what I like but I had no idea why I lied you know but a song like maneuver which is like the perfect that's my style of shoegas that I like they're not a shoegas band but they write some great shoegas songs and they want to but then you've got a song like hexagrams and you know we mentioned that the other day like them coming back they're like oh like Chino's voice might be gone and then they just write this heavy song but kind of airy and beautiful at the same time like you got needles and pins which are just two bases playing like and it's like such a cool riff then you've got a song like bloody cape at the end of the album which is like it is intensely heavy at the end like I just there's so many songs on this album that I love like it just the the quality of these songs like has never dropped away if anything has gotten better over time and I was kind of I'm kind of spewing I feel like during this time and when they were doing Saturday night wrist it wasn't a great time for them personally I just wish they'd played they had have played more songs off the self-taught of what I saw them live recently but yeah fantastic album I think you have sold me on re-listing to because usually every fall just about I kind of go through my death tones phase and listen to like everything so I think you may have just triggered me starting with self-titled instead of starting at the beginning yeah well it's funny I was actually reading as well apparently the self-titled was the 13th most expensive album ever recorded so apparently it costs 2.5 million dollars at the time apparently with inflation that's over 4 million today yeah so but for mine and they've had some albums that are just beautifully produced like a lot of their albums are beautifully produced that's why and oh my god for mine was like touched and outlier and a surprise just because it didn't sound great like some of the songs sound like good songs but the production wasn't right there but like an album like the self-titled like it's just yeah it's perfectly produced and like they talk about the loudest walls I don't care about that I love fucking huge guitars even if it's compressed as hell I love that sound yeah so that's that's another great album from mine um but on the whole sort of like my cousin of the fan who got me and there's so many of these bands another band he showed me called title fight um and my favorite album from there is his floral green um I just I'm looking forward to getting you into this band Justin I feel and they're like I thought they've grown in popularity since they've stopped they only released three albums um that a lot couple of apes as well but They're just like this great, youthful energy. And their first few albums are kind of like hardcore music. But Floral Green, for me, was kind of like, they took the best parts of the '90s, but don't have like a modern edge and like a really youthful, energetic sort of edge. But like, at the same time, like they had these really cool, like they have two guitarists and they've got really cool like ideas and chords and song progressions. And as I've said, like great poppy choruses as well. Like you've got a song like Secret Society, which is a really like really basic song in terms of how it structured. But like starting out just for the bass and Ned's singing. So Ned's the singer from Glitter are, but like just the song just building and building an intensity and ending with this huge chorus. Then you have Head in the Sealing Fan, which is the best hum song that hum never wrote. Like just absolutely beautiful. Like it's been one of my favorite songs for more than a decade now. And I still have no idea what the fuck he's singing about. I don't know what the lyrics are. It's just beautiful. Yeah, songs like Number I Still Feel are like, those songs that like I can identify with all through like my 20s. Like left the in between like they just wrote so many good songs and I always find myself each year having like a period of time where I'm just listening to Total Fine again. And if they came back as a full time band again, yeah. I'd be going off chops. And I can't wait to do it to program on Total Fine. Like I think you really like them. Well, you mentioned Glitter, like I loved them. And I just missed my second chance in like, I don't know, three or four months, whatever it was to see them. Yeah, you know, more on that later. Well, it's funny because yeah, Glitter sounds so different to Total Fine, but Ned Russ and you know, the man behind Glitter are like, he still loves the same mood. Like he's a hardcore nerd. Like you listen to some podcasts of him. He's a really interesting and thoughtful guy. But like, and I mentioned it at parts in the Glitter episode, you can hear some songs that just have the Total Fine DNA. Like obviously they all share DNA because he wrote songs for Total Fine. But like, I love it when he indulges himself in writing a really heavy song because I'm like, he loves this type of music. And you know, I hope that they do another album again one day because I just find it fascinating when bands come back together after a time apart. Obviously if they're inspired. Like we mentioned in that before by Hum, like they waited a long time to release that, like just about almost 25 years, I'd imagine. But they came back with a really inspired album. I just hope that Total Fine had that opportunity one day in the future. But yeah, the next album I mentioned is also right up there for my favorite album of all time. And it's Blur's 13. This album came out in 1999 and the singer, Damien Albarn, obviously, Gorilla's fame as well. He just broke up with his long-term partner for the '90s, who was the singer of Velastica. And a lot of Blur's albums to those points were kind of like written in the third person and like really clever, sort of observational pop songs of just brilliant guitar. 'Cause you know, Graham Cox and Alex James, great guitarist and bass player, but they just allowed themselves, he sort of indulged himself for more of Graham's music, tastes more American sort of indie music on their self-titled album beforehand. And obviously that's where Song 2 come off and Beatlebaum and some classic singles. But Blur's 13, they lined up with William Orbit who just passed away recently. But he produced Ray of Light by Madonna and had some really interesting electronic production to that stage as well. He actually got the job for 13, producing 13 'cause he remixed one of their songs for I think a Japanese album that, I don't know why Japanese imports were such a big thing for all the '90s bands, but he remixed one of their songs from the self-titled and they thought it was amazing. So he produced 13 and he was a very much like a, almost like an interpretive painter and his production style, like he'd just record them and record them and record them and he'd overnight, he'd take the songs from these different takes and mix it together. And it was just a really interesting style of music. And for Damon, he was going through this heartbreak of the time, like he had these really, like instead of writing in the third person, he was writing these really personal songs for the first time about himself. But like the musicianship on this album, the production is amazing. And like this album is not by any means, a fun album to listen to, like it's very challenging and very, very moody, but I love that. And this is probably the first album I listen to, like it, I would have been 17, I was getting into this, but it's one of the most, very interesting songs and instrumental, but very depressing. Like you have songs like Battle, which is like, not like anything blurred down to that point. 1992 Malo song, but like they still had these like great, great single like Coffee and TV on there. But then also like the heavy song they were made called Bug Man. Like it was just like Blows like, always had this underlying like, weirdness in them that was kind of repressed because they wrote such good pop songs as well, but it come out, like you could hear it in their B size throughout their early career, but it come back for mentions on this album and it's still my favorite album of theirs and something that, you know, I come back to you quite often, but it's a very challenging listen compared to their other albums, but I love bands that have long careers and play different styles and like, I just find it fascinating. So that's definitely an album I'd recommend to someone, but like what I mentioned before, it's something I'd show to someone after showing them other blue albums first, because it's not something that I think you could just jump into off the bat. Well, especially you know, or they might only know like song two and then you get thrown the loop. When we did the, since we last spoke on blur, we covered like there, what was it, 2016 record. And I said this then, like I feel like I'm more ready for blur now and like hearing this record come up really does make me want to revisit it, 'cause I mean, I remember coffee in TV, but I don't remember what we did this, we did the blur episode literally 10 years ago. So it's like I haven't revisited much. So I think you've convinced me to, on two fronts now, depth on the end, blur. - Well, I'm glad they, and look, none of these songs sound like little deeper, but in terms of that object sort of like there's that, that deep mood that you can't put your finger on in a song like Little Dipper, you've got that in some songs here like 1992 and battle like this, just something underneath the music that just makes you feel very uneasy. Like it's just dripping off these songs. And like a song like battle like you sort of look at it just the lyrics or without like listening to the song, you're like this kind of like if you described a song to someone that might be like that would be nonsense, but then you listen to it and it's so immersive. Like I could listen to that song in a dark room with air pods and you know like you start daydreaming because it's just such an evocative standing song because it's got such interesting sounds in it. And like it's kind of like the small favorite song of the year will be like the bass is kind of like just a low drone like I reckon dogs would like be frightened when they hear it. There's frequencies where you can't hear there and there's really heavy drum lube and really like cool synth line. It's very spacey and like it's kind of very relaxing for the first chorus but then the second chorus like this is loud ragged guitar that enters and that's as heavy as blues ever been. And then somehow they have another chorus and it's just like the most beautiful layered synths again. Like it's just so weird and I love it. It's got so much replay value because really more but was so good for blur and his production. Like it's a pity they never recorded with him again because he I feel like he got the best out of that band. And yeah it's really unfortunate that he passed away for many reasons but from a selfish reason I would have loved to have heard him work with blur again. as they're probably my favorite of a band, yeah. So blue come out, 13 come out 1999 and my favorite silver chair, Obam neon ballroom also come out 1999. Now silver chair I think a very misunderstood band probably across most of the world, pre virtue of becoming popular so young and like anyone like these those songs are amazing for being written by 14 year olds but like obviously that's not their best work might have been their most popular work but silver chair is a band like just progressed so much and for mine a lot of people and obviously been in Australia and silver chair we're always in the sort of national you know the the consciousness of the country you know like and it's kind of like for mine it's a bit of a tragedy that they stopped they weren't even in their 30s yet when the last album come out yeah modern but a lot of people over here called diorama the perfect album and the sort of masterpiece by silver chair and I love diorama like across the night greatest view and China and the Brion like these are amazing songs and beautifully produced and instrumentation and so forth but I love neon ballroom more I feel like neon ballroom he made a real conscious effort to bring light into diorama but I've always found that Daniel John's wrote better songs with angst and pain and all those strong emotions in it and neon ballroom I think like I don't know just the album itself diorama almost sounds too perfect sometimes as neon ballroom like I always bring up the song black tangled heart which wasn't a single or anything but like you have this like it starts off with this beautiful sort of like arpeggiated guitar line but it's like doubled on the heart and it's kind of delicate early but like there are sections in the song where he's like roaring and there's like breakdowns and heavy guitar parts and then after that like seconds later almost naturally like there's like this beautiful like orchestral arrangements but somehow like there's kind of like what I was saying with battle by blur before like I love the fact that these elements don't seem like they should work together work really well together like I love how they sort of there's conflict there but somehow it works just because it's it's so well written you know there's beautiful like really cool couture textures in the drum sound on this album is amazing like Nick Lorne produced it and they just had a really great drum sound Ben Gillies is just on fire here someone that always I appreciate his drumming because he just fucking smashes the shit out of the drums I think the best drummers do that obviously they have the ability to play it gentle as well and he did that more so in later recordings but for me like the sophistication of the songwriting it was getting better but they still had that sort of energy and raw heaviness and loud drum sounds even if the songs weren't always necessarily appearing that way and you know it's I was talking about them sort of being a part of the national consciousness like we grew up with Daniel Johns and he had a lot of health issues and sort of mental health issues are happening and you hear you hear a song like Anna's song open fire like he was what 19 years old and he's writing this really brave personal song about his battle for anorexia and it kind of like that was the last song recorded for the album and he's just like he's has I've spoken to my cousin about this before like he's like like the braver scared guy I ever know or maybe like the scared you know the most scared brave guy like he's so fragile and obviously so but like a lot of the times he's like willing to put himself out there and like when he's like obviously not doing well and like I don't know I just find it really inspiring but like just a great sounding album like a lot of good songs on there even like the missteps if you call it out in the album are entertaining like and for the year 2000 I don't really care for that song but I still enjoy it but then I got to have a song is like we see love emotion sickness you know point of view steam will rise like I love most of the songs if not all the songs of this album so I always recommend that as a silvete album even over time Rama I don't know if I don't know if that album did much in America at the time I don't know so yeah that's what I was gonna say is like it's interesting like to view it from an Aussie point of view versus an American point of view because when neon ballroom came out it was pretty big like anthem was a read like a reasonably big hit I think I'm pretty sure that was the lead single and then in an anna song like blew up it like to the point where I checked out on silver chair like they it blew up so big that I got tired of them and neon ballroom never got like the real listen from me until much later when we did did them on the on the show and you know I can appreciate me on ballroom now but I mean I'm still a freak show guy yeah but again I think that's just a different and eight difference in age I I can appreciate neon ballroom a lot more now and diorama is kind of where I check out but I I think I think I'm letting something that happened at this point twenty twenty six years ago like really affect how I take in the music now I'm I'm still working on erasing you know those type of things so but yeah it yeah it was neon ballroom was a pretty big hit here but it's kind of where they are here yeah there's like they sound you change a lot after that like for mine like even though you know the songwriting obviously you know it's in progress greatly in terms of how sophisticated the on ballroom is like it still sounds like the band had done freak show some of diorama's moments like you can't really hear that as much but like yeah freak show is great as well like I the thought of a song as heavy as freak getting serious radio played twenty twenty six like like I I love that that like that song was was was massive or at least in Australia at the time like even my dad who was pretty much checked out of like new music by then like he I remember is when I was younger used to smash freak like and play it really loud and like you know it kind of goes back to what I was saying before like the lyrical content I don't care about that like you know like some of the lyrics to like freak no more babies babies got rabies like fucking stupid lyrics but like it actually it it feeds the top of song it is you know no association man like what a seek riff that is like this is some really good songs of that as well but yeah like I'll I'm always happy to talk about silvicade anyone even if they ever played it back then most heads of it yeah well and the one off that record was abuse me abuse me was huge here yeah freak got radio play but not nearly as much as abuse me yeah you know I would have fought freak would have been I suppose it is pretty heavy though yeah I suppose as well I appreciate freak because I can play it on guitar without thinking too much which is always just always a a positive for me yeah that's also why I like stars by hum by the way I've taught that to students at school I'm like well you've heard how never long is dropped in you play like that well this is also good stars and that's a great buy-in for them yeah so look a lot of like albums from the 90s in here but when I was a bit older I started to go on a youth radio station with Jamo in Australia called Sydney 90.7 FM and they had they had a playlist called sweet 16s I've explained it before but basically they had 16 new songs for American uh sorry like overseas artists predominantly American 16 songs by Australian artists and there those those songs in these playlist would be put on the the I don't know what the equivalent is here because I know you've you've done a lot of radio Justin but like the the machine that like shuffles through and plays music when there's there's no shows on equivalent of that. They played a lot of songs from the album Green Twin by Nick Huckim and I wouldn't know how to describe this album because it's not the sort of music I usually listen to but like this album would play a lot and I soon found listening to the album. It's got 12 songs and I basically loved every song. It's kind of like psychedelic but it's kind of like soulful as well and there's a bit of R&B and it's really hard to describe but it's really like hazy sort of atmosphere. It's beautiful voices and weed like harmonies and I don't know I just really really enjoyed this album. I'd recommend it to anyone that's listening but yeah a lot different from the bands I've been talking about so far but that was like the first thing that I was really captivated by that I got into via sin. Yeah it's just even now like I've enjoyed his album since but for mine nothing like comes close to Green Twin. It's such a good album of his and like it's probably most of the bands I mentioned already are like kind of like share DNA with my dad's music even if they're not the bands he was into in terms of like like heavier guitar not not heavy music but like you know guitar rock. Like every fucking rock band is guitar but sort of guitar talented music with good melodies and so forth. This I found is something that related more to my mum's type of music and I showed my mum this album and she loved it and I'd loved having that because it is like a side of music that I don't know had a naturally navigate in terms of getting to new artists and so forth but that was just an album that I was like oh this is cool I can show my mum this and she loved it and I knew she'd like it and it was called like Bond for over that because predominantly my music tastes I think in a way is fallen through my cousin and my dad so I I'm fond of that album because I just love it but that's another reason why I'm fond of it. Another album that I got into for his scene was was Flower Boy by Tyler the creator. I sort of half listen to his music from a distance previously but hadn't been like a huge fan or anything like that but like this was an album that again was I was going through their sweet 16 playlist because basically what I had to do for the radio station over summer they'd have like more once-off shows or episodes that you do and you could book in these like shows and I'm like well I'll make a show about like a countdown of my favorite songs from their sweet 16 playlist throughout the year and Flower Boy like there they feature albums of those weeks they'd have the first three songs in those playlists on top of just the individual stuff from other artists and I loved I loved the first three songs that they played off Flower Boy but just like really like I don't know I feel like the the album that is made like totally created is a wrap-up but like this song's really this album is really well produced and has some like you know great like qualities like it's like some like almost dream pop in some stages but just like really interesting sense and like how the songs are set out and I don't know I just found it like it's point of all the the wrap albums I've listened to it's the one I've enjoyed the most like it's really cool like features on the album as well like you know probably the most well no song is is see you again but like those songs like Garden Shared and mr. Lone Lean forward like there's there's a lot of like songs that I still listen to quite regularly so that's another album I'd recommend this last album my top 10 couldn't be any different from from those albums it's it's a it's an album called Common Era by the band Belmont how I describe this album it's like I wouldn't even say pop songs but like like songs sort of you're hearing these songs across a valley through like two factories and echoey sort of hallways like there's just a really distant sort of sound and I don't know what it is but they're just like for me it's like very extreme shoe gaze but it's not it's like they'll renowned previously or they'll more well known previously for making like ambient music but like a lot of these songs are like sort of like drum machines it might be like heavily echoed or delayed but like in baselines but like guitars like you like amorphically can't even like decipher what's being played and it would like like I don't know it explain it but like it's just so cool to listen to but like as an album and you can listen to it in full and it fits together so well they're like the weirdest like but you can hear a good song in there but it's just like so like you have to really search for it and it's really like immersive and dense definitely not one for the casual listen up but like maybe because it is such a dense album like it has a lot replay value for me and you hear different details in these songs over time but like it's I actually got Javile into this band which is funny because it wasn't like anything else we listen to it but like it's yeah I'll get you listen to it you probably think like what is this but I can't I can't explain it well but like if if anyone was wanting to listen to them I'd probably perfect life would probably be the most accessible song you'll listen to it and be like this is the accessible song but it is I don't know it's just like it's really easy to like sort of I don't know how fun I love I love really like music that you can sort of like I don't know like you can paint a picture in your mind when you're hearing it like it's really evocative even if I have no idea what any of the fucking lyrics for the whole album but like you know some of the songs I recommend of that are like come see keep still perfect life make me return like these are all songs I'd recommend but definitely more out there than any of the other albums I've mentioned in my top 10 but yeah that is my top 10 I love like we I think we we found out a little bit about you you really like dense music you kind of explain that up up top like you know but when you think about like a deftones a hum like how like yeah they're heavy but they're heavy because they're dense and kind of like what you're pointing out with blur it kind of has that same density to it that it just because it's not heavy doesn't mean it's not dense and kind of what you're explaining there with that last record is it seems like a dense record with sounds and I also love like the idea of the where where's the balance between ambient and shoe gaze like because they're cousins and yeah there is a balance there that you can find because a lot of what's great about a shoe gaze is the ambiance so like yeah it is there is a fine line there like the fact that they're they're close I never really thought about so yeah I think we learned a little something about you today Josh I appreciate you sharing with us now that was that was heaps of fun and yeah talking about that that difference for me it's a sugar I think also sometimes hearing songs where you like how the fuck did they make it sound like that because I know that's probably guitar but like and that was born out of like you know my bloody valentine like it's sort of like the first thing I heard where I'm like I have no idea how this is like standard instruments here but like it sounds out of this world and this belong album like it is certainly the songs are very otherworldly it's just that they all sound like they're coming from like over a valley through a few walls and like you want to go closer to hear the actual song but like that's the fun I don't want to hear this standard song like it sounds amazing the way it does you know Yeah. Yeah, it's very interesting. Yeah, not how to bow. All right. Well, with that, folks, if I'll say this, you don't have to wait for an invitation. If you want to do a perfect 10, it's it's cool to reach out and we'll schedule a time for you to do it. And I love doing these because I love I love hearing again. Everybody's this is how what a perfect 10 is to me. And then we find out stuff about you. It's just these are very great conversations. I love to be part of them. And hopefully you want to do it as well. And if so, reach out if not. Okay. Cool. Hope you enjoy listening. We'll talk to you all tomorrow. Bye.