The Parable of the Treasure and the Pearl - KR 48

[music] Welcome to the Kingdom Roots podcast with Scott McNight. The conversation designed to look at how the kingdom took root then and how it's taking root now. Today on our episode we have a conversation about two parables, one the treasure hidden in the field and the other the parable of the pearl. So Scott we're kind of back in the swing of things with these parable episodes that we've been doing with our M-A-N-T cohort at Northern Seminary and this project on the parables that we're working to put these together to really show how Jesus used these parables as tools to allow his followers and listeners to imagine a world like this. So we want to let us know who the our listeners have the pleasure of hearing today and joining us in our conversation and I guess maybe a little about that parable those parables that we're talking about today. Yeah, today we have with us Debbie Moore who came to us directly from Honolulu Hawaii and she's now living in the Chicago land area with her husband Josh and their baby Jacob. And we also have Becky. Becky Castle Miller from Amsterdam so we are scanning the globe here if we can just cheat a bit and imagine Debbie back in Hawaii we've got about half the world brought together in this parable. And one of the one of the things that is deeply concerning to me has been professors inability to communicate with lay people about insights that we have from the Bible and biblical studies and their desire instead to write academic articles that 16 people read and analyze and critique. And so one of the things that I've done in my life in my career is to work on communicating some of these some of this biblical scholarship to lay people in ways that shows the value of what we are learning about the Bible. And so part of our master's program at northern is to focus on writing and writing it away that becomes accessible to lay people and to with us today Becky and Debbie are both good writers and both of them are concerned about communicating to the church and with the church both of them are active and active in their churches. And today we want to look at two different parables so part of our master's program is going to be working on a writing project on parables and the general theme that I've set for the students is to look at each parable as Jesus exoriting his listeners to imagine a world like this in other words. Jesus is trying to get people to imagine what the kingdom taking root in our world would actually look like and his parables are fictive or fictional little stories that take us into that imagined kingdom world and two parables today are very short the shortest of all parables is the parable of the treasure in a field and the parable of the pearl of great value and I'm going to read those now. From Matthew chapter 13 the kingdom of heaven this is where Jesus is saying imagine a world like this is like treasure hidden in a field which someone found and hid. Then in his joy he goes and sells all of the has and buys that feel. And then the second parable is again imagine a world like this the kingdom of heaven is like a merchant in search of fine pearls on finding one pearl of great value he went and sold all that he had and bought it or he bought that parable or that pearl he prayed and buy the parable. So I'm going to one of the things that we ask our students to do is study the cultural context of the parables I'm going to ask Debbie what she learned about this little cultural custom of bearing treasures and fields what's going on here. So the treasure in the field is it sounds kind of a foreign concept to us but culturally speaking in the time especially with the Roman tensions people would bury treasures in fields or in graveyard in different places until until tensions would be passed. Some people would find them and then legally speaking if you found a treasure you could buy the field or buy the plot or buy whatever wherever you found it. So it wasn't like a sleazy move for him to rebarry it and buy the field it was actually legally speaking he was he was in within realms there and sometimes treasure would wouldn't be found for a long time so even with this treasure wouldn't be necessarily a. A recent very it could have been a very old treasure so that was interesting to me Debbie did they did they bury these things in cloth or they just dig a hole did they did they mark things do you know anything about that. Some not attend the there were some specifically this article that we read regarding the clay jars that there would be coins and clay jars. There were different methods i'm guessing of of. Very old and hiding but specifically speaking we don't know in this parable what kind of treasure or how. You know i was long ago i learned about this about the Dead Sea Scrolls one of the scrolls that was discovered had a list of locations where treasures had been buried and they're pretty sure it was in Jerusalem. And of course it had the weirdest directions you know go three three. Paces from so and so house. And of course none of that stuff exists anymore so they've got the in a sense they've got this map. Of directions to buried treasures in Jerusalem and of course you don't know what the map makes absolutely no sense so this is this is this is a cultural custom they didn't have banks. There weren't places other than I suppose with emperors and and procurators and government authorities who could have houses or places where things could be stored. The ordinary people had to bury things and they had to keep it quiet but they had to tell somebody so there was this risk and there were occasional discoveries like this. So this is just a common little custom that Jesus is talking about I wonder if Becky discovered anything about pearls that could illuminate the cultural context about pearls I personally have no use for pearls even to this day. I've never thought they were all that attractive myself but so. So you don't wear you don't wear pearl necklace when you go out for afternoon tea. I don't nor do people who wear pearl necklaces gain my attention by doing. I thought it was interesting that pearls at the time would have been regarded as the most valuable substance so saying that something was a pearl was actually a figure of speech to say something it was of most value. I don't think that makes a lot of sense to us now because we have artificial pearls and it's easy to find pearls so we tend to think of it more in terms of diamonds being representative of of a great treasure or something worth a lot and we use diamonds in our engagement rings so when my when my now husband was my boyfriend he wanted to propose to me he emptied out his bank account and bought a diamond in a ring. I hope and I think that he would say that what he gained me was worth more than than he put into buying that diamond of great price so I imagine that this merchant who found the pearl was finding something incredibly valuable and it was worth everything to him. He saw good return on his investment. Well, the other thing you know this would be easy to translate into language so for my grandson the pearl would be some kind of Mario game or whatever they're called for his little device that he plays games on and my granddaughter would like American doll. Is that what it's called American American. And so you know this is easy to translate this kind of cultural custom but both of the need to be unpacked in their world and it it wasn't as Debbie said it wasn't sleazy for someone to take the find something in a field and then by the field. That was clever just as the other day we were at the parking lot got out of a car got out of our car and I see Chris there's a coin over here as I walked over there there were four quarters a nickel and a penny that somebody had dropped on the ground there was no one around so there wasn't even someone I could say did you drop coins so. So I found it in a sense, it's finders keepers. So these cultural customs do help us understand the parables. And I think we've got a little bit of an edge now. So I'm wondering if Debbie could take some of this and put it into what the theme of these parables are about. And I think that this can be said simply and straightforwardly and boom, we're done. But I wonder if you have something to say about the theme. The joy of the value of discovering the kingdom would be the one section and the cost of discipleship would be the hand in hand theme. You can't really separate them. They are both an end theme for both of these parables. And I think it's important to hone in with what these parables are actually trying to say because you could take so many rabbit trails and dividing them but seeing them together really gives us a richness and seeing this twofold theme work out. And the joy is obvious because both of the parables talk about joy. Well, or at least it's implicit in the first one it says out of joy. And the second one he discovered it and he sold everything and bought it. And the discipleship theme is indicated in both parables. They sold everything they had to get the field. So everything is transferred in this theme to the value of what is discovered. And of course, Jesus has started the parable by saying the kingdom is like this. It is so valuable that you give up everything for it. And I think Debbie, you're right on the theme that way. It's exactly what's developed. Becky, have you looked at all about the themes of joy and value in the parable? The book that we primarily use for our research was Cline's not Grass Stories with Intent. And he says that these two similitudes are about the value and the joy of finding the kingdom. And he really emphasized that it's a jumping up and down screaming kind of excitement, winning the lottery is one way we might understand it. So finding the kingdom should fill us with great joy. Yeah, joy is an interesting word in the New Testament. But this one is clearly that sense of exhilaration. Now Becky, you don't quite understand this, but we do because as Cub fans, we know what this felt like last fall when we won the World Series, it was just out of this is the same kind of expressiveness that is, you know, people are jumping up and down and hugging one another and we're at a Cub's game. And every time the Cub's do something, everybody's standing up the whole time. We wait too much for a baseball game. And everybody's given strangers high fives. And it's quite an experience. And I think that that's the sort of joy you're right about what's going on in here. Debbie, you have anything to say about this joy, seem to joy and value here? I think another modern example, aside from Cubs, because you can't top that. But I do feel that. Debbie, you admit this too. That is really good news. I wasn't lucky enough to be here. I've always listened to that and Becky didn't even probably come into her mind. Well, I have family in the Chicago land area and so I was celebrating with them. It was a big bandwagon and a lot of us jumped on. We just got to be honest about that. Absolutely. The radio station was coming around to people's homes and the suburbs and painting big W's on their driveways. Is that right? Yeah. I don't know if you want it. They can call in to the radio stations. They come by and spray paint. I never heard that one. That's good. Well, here we got to move on. What is your other analogy that you say in our? Well, I think in a modern, in our modern culture, we see reality TV tap into this idea of including the watchers into the joy of finding. There are so many reality TV shows on right now with treasure hunters and the fixed ruckers with the houses and a filthy riches where they're finding worms and mushrooms of value. I think it's really interesting. They're making so much money on this. The ratings are off the charts and people are watching because they, even on the sofa, they can be included in this joy when they find something that they know they can cash in and for. And there's been times that I've looked over to my husband and said, you know, I'm going to go look for a rusty car. I'm sure I could do this. I think you got a really good show there. I have no idea what you're talking about here because of the joy of watching the Cubs is so intense that I don't, I don't watch. That's the reality that I watch. Oh, we got to move on. But, you know, anybody speaking or teaching will know the kinds of translations that can be made in local church settings for that, for analogies to this. But ultimately, this is a parable about the cost of discipleship. And I wonder if Becky has, has some thoughts about the cost of discipleship and these parables? I have a lot of thoughts about the cost of discipleship. This is your tip. That's my thing. I am the discipleship director at my church and I'm currently writing a discipleship curriculum. And so I've thought a lot about how do we communicate with people the cost of what it takes to follow Jesus. And I really liked what Clen Stagras had to say in his chapter on these parables. He said, no one is the cost of discipleship without some sense of the value to be gained and without joy accompanying such an awareness. So I love that these parables paint what you gain as well as what it costs you. So it's the behavior of the finder. He says it's being willing to sell everything. The kingdom is worth whatever we have to give up to participate in it. So in other words, it's not just you choose this because it has inherent value, but you choose this because it brings ultimate meaning, happiness, joy into your own life. Yes. And what you give up. I think you've even compared to what you gain. Yeah. Well, Debbie, how is this impacted you guys? I mean, I know a little bit of your story here. Absolutely. Just to share maybe a tidbit of what happened to me 10 years ago. I had a change of heart to refocus and a little treasure I found that made me completely change degree plans and allegiance in my life of what I was focusing on and sold all my possessions. So I don't know if you guys have ever met someone who exhibits these Christlike qualities that are so attractive. Aside from Scott McKnight, I hadn't met him yet. Scott McKnight, I'm surrounded by my treasures right now, all my books here. Yes, well, to other people, books could be treasures. So I'd met somebody who was in the mission field and who exhibited these values and characteristics and I was just so amazed by the person that they were that I went and spied on the organization a little bit. Found out that there were more people like him and went home, put all my stuff on Craigslist that I had spent years building up, getting the right truck with the right horse trailer and the right horses and chickens. I thought I was building my kingdom. And I was about to take over the family business and I was even in an internship with a veterinary and pursuing a vet and a vet degree. So when I put everything on Craigslist and told my dad, I'm going to start building God's kingdom. I don't know if I can build mine anymore. He completely supported me, got behind me and within a month I was off and I never looked back. My life is completely different now and every day there's a testament really of, like Becky said, there's no, even if I had more, there would just be nothing I could give to get what I've gotten already. Well, is this when you went to Hawaii? Yes, originally I had joined YWAM and spent some years there and then did an undergrad in Christian ministry and now I'm here in Chicago working with you. Yeah, well that's, so you put everything you've owned on Craigslist. Yes. Well, you are the parable. That's really good. I love it. Yeah, that is really good. Becky, over to you, any thoughts here? And Debbie and I were working on our class project together. We both brought up the same quote from SnotGas where he talks about how we tend to think of the kingdom as an add-on to the rest of our lives. We want to hedge our bets, but he says you cannot hedge your bets with the kingdom and that, that's it out to both of us. So the idea that the parable tells us we can't go halfway. It's not an add-on. It has to be all or nothing. And that's what Jesus says too. My church is studying Luke right now and in Luke 14, Jesus tells the crowd that if they want to be here. his disciple, they have to, by comparison, hate everyone else, father and mother, wife and children. Even your own life, he says, you have to carry your own cross and follow me. And Jesus told people, don't begin until you count the cost. You can't become my disciple without giving up everything you own. So that's, you know, Jesus uses these parables as Matthew records, but here in Luke, he's saying it very plainly, the same thing. The kingdom is worth everything that you own, relationships, time, money, our political opinions, our cultural practices, our comfort. So if we want to gain the kingdom, we have to make Jesus our king. And my story is similar to Debbie's, when I moved to the Netherlands five years ago, my husband and I sold our cars and our books and our furniture, and we used our car money to buy our plane tickets. And we came with like six suitcases, three kids and two cats. And that's all we had. And it was because we support from some churches. No, we self-funded our move because we believed in what God was doing at this international church that we were invited to join. And so being part of that mission, joining God's work in the kingdom was worth giving up everything for. That's good. Well, I have to chime in here. This is unknown to most of our listeners. Would guess it's unknown to any of the three of you who are right here with us. When I was in high school, I was destined as it were to get a scholarship to a university for track and field. I was a high jumper. And I was also a de-cathlete. And I was gonna go either to the University of Illinois or the University of Wisconsin as a de-cathlete, and they were already calling me and talking about scholarships. And the summer before my senior year, I was at a church camp and had a profound conversion type experience of reorientation of my life. And in my life, all the attention that I had given to sports and to success in track and field ended in one prayer on a, I think it was like a Wednesday morning or a Thursday morning underneath a big tree. And I had an oak tree when I gave my life to Christ and the spirit of God filled me. And I never looked back. I mean, I never had any desire to do those things again. I mean, I played a little basketball in college and I actually high jumped a couple times for the track team, but we didn't have much of a track team. So, but I then had knee surgery so that kind of entered any chance. But I had already made the plan and I was gonna go, I wanted to go to a Christian college and prepare to be a Bible teacher for a pastor. I wasn't sure what it was gonna be. So I know that story of selling everything I had, although I did, I don't remember giving anything away. I don't think I had anything to give away when I was in high school. So, well, I think we're coming close to the end of our time, is that right, Chaz? - Yeah, you know, I've gotta say, this has just been so enjoyable. I think hopefully we'll be a powerful podcast episode for all you listeners. And I gotta say because all the three of you have been chiming in and sharing your stories, not just have studied and evaluated this parable and how Jesus used it, but are living it and have active real stories of what it looks like to sell everything and buy the field and find the treasure and be joyful about it and embrace discipleship in it. And I think here in everybody's store in all you guys talk, the quote that comes to mind for me is a quote from Jim Elliott. I hope I don't butcher it, but I've read him before and he says, "He is no fool who gives up what you cannot keep to gain what you cannot lose." And I just, that keeps coming back to me and it's so cool to hear how that's played out in all of your lives. And so I guess to wrap up our time, you guys got any closing thoughts? - Well, yeah, I wanted to ask either Debbie or Becky to chime in to say something about if this parable is teaching us to imagine a world in which the kingdom fully takes place in which the kingdom roots dig down deeply and we enter into that kingdom world. What does this kind of world look like according to Jesus and these two parables? - Yeah, I could say something on that. I think that, I mean, I have such a hope for the church obviously a little light in my heart for it, but I feel like if the church truly took, I mean, the kingdom was, you know, is the church, if the church really exhibited these things, the reality show wouldn't have anything because we would be the reality show. This reconciliation forgiveness, that doesn't make sense to the world. Holiness joy, equality, justice, all these things would be such an attraction that our problems would change as church to be, you know, finding more lumber to build churches because we would just not have enough space to keep the people from listening or to be part of this truth. - Yeah, you know, it's interesting because the parable tells us that it is out of the joy of what they found that they gave up everything. And I think you're right that when the kingdom is lived properly, it brings such a joy to people's life that they'll give up anything. I have met dozens of people at Willow Creek who gave up their careers in order to participate more fully in what's going on at Willow Creek. And the number of our students who have made major shifts in their own careers and their own life and vocations in order to seminary or to go into the ministry is really a story that needs to be told because they found a joy in this sort of life that they were not finding in their life at that point. So yeah, I think Debbie, you're right. I wonder if Becky wants to tap in on that one or tap down. - I love what Debbie said. That the church should make the kingdom look like the treasure that it really is to give another sort of tongue in cheek. But since here, real world example, you can say that the kingdom of God is like this, a student finding a great treasure in a professor, Scott McKnight at Northern Seminary and giving up everything to make that education possible, including attending class at midnight. - Oh boy. (laughing) I know, that was unbelievable. You're going to class so late at night. Yeah, that's good. - But the education I'm getting through Northern life and I know Debbie feels the same. It's incredibly valuable. So for me, that's a fun example of a treasure that's been worth giving up something for. And the kingdom of God is like that. It's the treasure of following the king participating in the kingdom that is worth giving up our whole lives for. - Okay, thank you. Any closing thoughts? - The big question is, is taking a class with fish like finding a treasure in a field? - Chaz, how are you editing? - I was thinking, "What do you have to answer that question?" (laughing) - Stop recording, Ted. - Oh, that's good. Oh, I hope David, I hope someone tells David what I asked at the end, 'cause he'll have a shirt, come back. - But you two are still in this class, so you have to behave at this point. - Yes. - Okay, well Chaz, this has been a good time, so I'll hand it over to you. - All right. - Well, thank you Debbie and Becky for joining us. It was a pleasure to have you on the podcast today. - Thanks Chaz, thanks God. - Thank you guys. - Thanks our listeners for joining us again for one of our episodes. We hope you find it valuable as always and are encouraged in whatever, and God may be doing in your life and the discipleship of how you're living that out and the sacrifices that you make to experience and live out what God has for you. So we hope to be with you next time that you'll join us again as we continue our conversation on how the kingdom took root then and how it's taking root now. (upbeat music) [Music]