The One Mistake That Built Bitch Bible (w/ Jackie Schimmel)

The other day I was going through my desk and I found a journal right from what I graduated. And it had pen and paper. How much I spent each day. At this time, I think I was making around $40,000 in access cash flow was pretty tight so I had to watch every penny. I think about how far we've come with technology and advancements to help us with this stuff. We don't need a journal with pen and paper anymore. The answers are out there. And Monarch is one of those answers. Monarch is literally, it's like having a financial advisor in your pocket. So you can use AI to help see what you're spending. Monarch will help you have full visibility in your accounts. It will help you see your trends. It will help you set goals, map out big purchases. See if you're actually on track to where you wanted to be. You can ask Monarch's AI assistant anything about your finance. It's like, "Hey, how much should I spend on travel last summer? Can I forward this vacation without touching my savings?" 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No. My money is my money and his money is also my money. Yeah. This is Financial T. What's up, Sippers? Welcome back to Financial T. This is a podcast where I teach you how to build well with a side of market drama, money scandals, and of course, financial pop culture. And today we are in the Los Angeles stew. And I am with my girl, Jackie Mother Freaking Shimo. She is comedian. Most of all, like truly will make you pee in your pants. That's nice. That's generous. But I have other accolades for you too. Rider, I was going to say, you really, like the blog goes hard. And most importantly, the host of the incredible podcast, The Bitch Bible, I'm the most loyal listener and it has been on the air since 2015. So she's sitting on some major appie baby. She's got that podcast, money, truly a pioneer. Thank you. You walked so we could all run. Thank you. Jackie, welcome to show I'm so grateful that you're here. Thank you. I'm excited. I was saying to you, I was like, are you going to be here? Because I was going to give you every out because I didn't know like how you're going to feel but you're such a champ. I'm here. I'm feeling good. You know, if I, if my water breaks, you're just going to have to drive me to the hospital. I love that. When are you do? I'm due in about five to six weeks, five and a half weeks. Oh, so you're near and near in the end? I'm nearing the end. I can feel it. It's like a foot's coming out of me. Am I allowed to cast? Oh, foe show. Okay, bitch. What are we going? Okay, perfect. Let's get them all out now. Okay. Okay. So let's start with some rapid fire questions. Love a rapid fire. Let's go. Okay. So I got the email and I didn't read it. Perfect. You're just coming in hot. Yeah, that's fine. What were your best and worst purchases of the week and how much did they each cost? Oh, God, well, it's been a bit of a slippery week in my house. We're finishing a backyard renovations. So the, um, the financial deficits are like hard to digest. I would say my worst purchase of the week would be grass sod, about 6,000 square feet of grass, which news to me is very, very expensive. So when I got the bill, I nearly laid on the freeway. Um, it was about, oh, God, it's so weird. You know what I'm, this is a good exercise for me because I feel like I have been so conditioned not to talk about money since you, it's funny. Like when you have no money, you don't talk about it. Yeah. But then when you have a little bit, like some switch goes off in your brain, where you're like not supposed to talk about it because it's like grass and gross. Yeah. But we're exercising that muscle today. Um, I love that. We're getting the financial, but I think you also your condition not to say numbers. Yes. But you two talk a lot about spending because it's such a big part of life. Like, you know, about how you maintain your life. It's true. And we should be more open about it as women. Um, that's women. The guys women. It's over here. Yeah. Exactly. I'm a feminist as well. Um, the grass sod was $48,000. That'll hit you, girl. So that nearly took me the fuck out. Yeah. Okay. Wasn't expecting grass to be so expensive. Yeah. Like I was like, can't we just like sprinkle a couple of seeds back there and like pray for El Nene out. No. Um, and my best purchase of the week is probably this is very annoying like white girl shit. Um, but the air one coconut milk goes raw coconut milk from air one. If we could just take a second, is the very best thing that I have ever consumed. I don't know if it's a pregnancy thing. But I've been making these like matcha lattes at home with the raw coconut milk. And if you're like the pregnancy police and you don't think I should be ingesting live cultures, you can fuck all the way off because I'm doing it and everything's fine. It is about $14 a bottle and it gets you about two lattes. So it's not a fiscally responsible habit. You're better off just going to Leora. Yeah. But when I tell you, it hydrates you from within. It's the most delicious treat. I sleep all night looking forward to it. Okay. And then what's something you spend a ridiculous amount of money on that you genuinely believe is worth every penny. Um, so many things. So many things. I don't have like a lot of spending guilt because if I am spending money on something, it typically brings me so much joy that I can really rationalize it. And I'm like, I could get hit by a bus. Like, do I need these like bedazzled, you know, shoes? No. Am I ever going to wear them? Probably not. But like just looking at them gives me such a fever for life that I can rationalize it. I would say anything home interior wise, I can conceptualize that like a certain tile is ridiculous. And if I ever sold my home, someone would probably rip it out because they thought it was crazy. But I am so emotional about materials that I do not feel guilty about like spending money on things in my home that I get to enjoy. Yeah. And also at the cost per wear, like we were talking before about how we both love to buy coats because you got to wear a coat a million times. Oh, it's a hug. It's a hug. But it's like same thing with your house. You're in your house every freaking day. And I just like if I saunter into a bathroom and I see the wallpaper, the tiles or the stupid fixtures, like I get such pride in that. And it's very exciting to me. We get to enjoy it. And yeah, I can't really explain it. Like it's just, I don't know, just makes me feel very, very happy. Well, I think from a financial perspective, you are actually really sophisticated because you don't have guilt. Like you have so much confidence in how you spend. And I do. You're unabashed and unapologetic about it. And I think more people should try and be like that because you know, there's so much shame on the internet around spending. Yeah. Like I make good money. If I go stay at a nice hotel or something like this, people, why didn't you get an Airbnb? Why didn't you? Like I don't want to. I'll just stay home. Yeah. That's the case. Like if I'm going to do something, I like to do it right or not at all. You know what I mean? I agree with that. And I really do. I think maybe I grew up a certain kind of way where it was very much so like saving for the future, living, you know, living for the future, compiling. And I find that the less, I mean, this is coming from a privileged place and believe me. You know, we were talking about this. I lived three blocks over in an apartment with bars on the windows and had my car repossessed. So I understand. But even in that space, I feel like, Not being so emotionally attached to money has helped me. Because the more money I spend, the more enthusiastic I am to make more money. If that makes sense, like the ebb and flow of it, and like even like throwing parties at your house. Kind of a wasteful thing to have a bunch of, you know, to spend a bunch of money on a night that you have people over in a bar, whatever you choose to do. But you have like a memory, and a culture, and a vibe, and it's so important. And if we all get crazy about it, then there's no more fun. - So let's go back to-- - Sorry. - I'm just, I'm just hijacking your shell. - No, I'm in so, I'm on edge of my seat. I'm more, I'm just like, I'm in a privileged position where I feel like I know you so well, 'cause I am obviously a long-time listener, and now we're like becoming friends too. I'm obviously, you know, means so much to me. But I want to go through your story, 'cause it is so interesting. You know, you really did start from nothing. You dropped out of high school, you faked your diploma. And then-- - I didn't drop out. I just didn't graduate. - Yeah, you know what I mean? I didn't have enough credits to technically graduate, and I had lied to all the supervisors. I was like very into student council, so I knew everybody, you know. It wasn't like I was like a deadbeat, like doing drugs in the parking lot. I just wasn't really that interested in schooling. I was more into the social aspect of school, and I basically was like, let me walk because I have 700 family members who already bought tickets to like come see me graduate, and I'll do summer school to make up for the credits that I don't have. Fun fact, never went to summer school, didn't technically have enough credits, never got my diploma. So that's kind of how that went. - But you got to do the ceremony, not the best part. - I got to walk with an empty little like leather pamphlet thing. But so then you went on to build this incredible career in media though, like you've had your podcasts for over 10 years. You really are looked at as one of the top female podcasters, and so can you give us that sort of origin story how you got there? - Yeah, I mean, it's kind of stupid, really. I had little to no direction. I didn't, wasn't particularly like interested in anything, but like overly confident that whatever, like everything was like kind of gonna work out. And I've kind of always been that way, despite having no real skills. - You have like a very clear anchor in your soul that I feel like shows you like where to go. - I felt like it was gonna be okay, and even if it wasn't gonna be okay, like it would be okay. - Yeah. - So I wasn't like particularly into anything, and I didn't really have any direction. I didn't graduate high school. I didn't go to college. I enrolled like in an internship program anywhere I could. I happened to intern at NBC, just because like my cousin knew someone that like got me in. I lied when I got there, said I was going to UCLA. - Yeah. - It was a different time, you know, nothing was digital. Like we could just kind of like wake, it was just like, I'm at UCLA, and I also lied and said that I was graduating that year. - Oh, awesome. - But I was like 19. - Yeah. - Like how would you be graduating? - It didn't matter, like it worked. - It fucking worked. And then from there, I got a job. - Yeah, where did you meet your best friend, Lauren Sanchez? - At Extra. - Oh, okay, so how do we get to Extra? - I got to Extra through the NBC internship program. So I was there like five days a week, all day, 'cause I wasn't going to school. - Yeah. - So I was able to like really make myself present in the newsroom, and I shadowed like Lauren Sanchez, who were the host Mario Lopez, Terry Seymour. You know, I just did bitch work basically. And then from there, I went to Chelsea lately, then I moved to after lately, then I did some pilots for her, but these were not glamorous jobs. These were production assistants, jobs in like-- - They were creative. - No. - No, I was doing Costco runs, walking the dog dishes, male distribution, and keeping a pretty low profile. - Yeah. - You know what I mean? I wasn't like, I was just like, I just got to like, keep a gig going for a while. And then I got fired from that. I was also like the worst employee ever. - Me too. - The worst. - So bad. - I would just go off the grid. I'd go to Costco, I'd be sitting in the parking lot for 45 minutes, you know, all the things. And then I moved sharpest right. I got a job at an investment bank. I just like went to like-- - I just went to like-- - I know, right. - I went to like-- - How'd you finagle that one? - Very interesting, I had no job for a long time. I did telemarketing. I did all these like random Craigslist jobs. Just to like make some kind of income 'cause my parents are like, if you're not going to college, you have to like pay for yourself, basically. They covered my rent, they helped me a lot. But they were like, bitch, she better get a fucking job. - Yeah. - So I worked at Fred Seagull for a bit. I mean, I had 700 different shitty jobs that didn't ever last long, 'cause I was a really, really terrible employee. - Well, they weren't careers. It was really just you're trading your time for money. - Exactly. - And so like, those were the jobs too that I didn't excel in. Or it's like, I'm a nanny. I worked at a Pilates studio. Like they do that where I'm just not gonna take it seriously 'cause like, I don't have a piece of the pie, honey. - No. - They're just paying me to show up and like, I'm bored. - I'm like, I'm barely here. I'm just like staring in the ceiling. And then I went to like, like a headhunter. Like some type of like a staffing person lied about being a UCLA graduate. - Amazing. - They didn't fucking check. - And by the way, that's on, you don't do, we need to pay for these degrees. It's like, just say what? - Just 'cause back then you could. - You really could. - But that's money, half you can find. - It was unbelievable. (bell dinging) - Wait, have you guys heard the news? The market report is now its own separate episode of Financial T. It's gonna be in your feeds once a week just so that we can cover the latest breaking news going on in financial and just general pop culture. So make sure that you subscribe. So you are up to date on all things juicy and money 'cause you know that's how we like to keep it. Stay rich. - And then, yeah, I got a job as a receptionist at an investment bank and I had benefits and it was like, I mean, I thought that I was like, really set for life. All I had to do was answer the phone, like divert people to conference rooms, ask them if they needed water and like close the gate at the end of the day. Like it was as, and do some FedEx runs. The best gig in town, by the way. - So truly, like are they hiring? - I swear to God, they did, after I got fired from there, they did ask me to come back twice. - Wow. - Twice. - Twice, that's a lot of time. - And I was like, you guys are obsessed with me. Get out of here. I'd walk around with the Bluetooth, with the cord hanging out, like it wasn't even plugged in. 'Cause it just like made me feel like sexy rom-com vibes. Good times, good times. And I was like, stealing water, it was stealing wines. It was fucking awesome. But. - And then you started a bitch Bible. So from that job, I had so much dead time. - Yeah. - Just sitting at that fucking desk, okay? And everyone would check out at like three and I had to be there till six. So I'd switch all the TVs and the reception area to housewives. I'd be kicking my foot up, opening the CEOs like, shardonnay or whatever. And I started writing like housewives recaps. - Oh, okay, love that. - This is kind of when like blogging was like popping off. So I wrote like a couple housewives recaps. One of them got picked up by like an alarm magazine. And I was sending them out like to, you know, info at alert. Like any submission email address I could find. And I got one on like alert.com major. I mean, for a dumb fuck with a headset that wasn't plugged in. Yeah, it was like kind of a cool thing. I was like, I'm a writer. - They're like bitch, you haven't like even written an email for this company, but okay. And Andy Cohen found it and like retweeted it. And then I got invited to do watch what happens live as like a bartender. That's so crazy. - It's crazy. Like really? - Yeah, it was crazy. That's like a lot of fortune. - Well, I was just lying to you. I'm like, you know, and I had like a sad little blog. And then I went to New York. I did the watch. - They blew you? - They did. - Wow. - They did. - From one article in a letter that he tweeted. - I had been doing like, and then I was doing regular housewife - Yeah. - Free apps. They were like, she loves housewives. Like let's bring her on. - Yes. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - And then from there when I went to watch what happens live, I met the president of Embassy Row, the production company. - Yeah. - And they were starting a podcast network. And he was like, would you like to do a podcast with our company? And I was like, what the fuck's a podcast? - Okay. - I mean, by the way. Nothing else going on, so I started a podcast. But during that deal that you had with Embassy Row, you've talked about this before. It was a shitty deal and you explain how you found out that that deal was so bad. - Well, I was 22 when I signed that deal. I have no family and entertainment at all. I also didn't consult anyone because I was like, this is my big break, you know what I mean? I'm a star and I had no options. I did not have a lawyer, you know, I was 22 years old and I was presented kind of, podcasting at the time was the Wild Wild West. There were no podcasts. Okay, like it was Corolla and like NP, like there was, it didn't exist, okay? So I was given paperwork that offered me like a talent fee of like $5,000 a year, which to me at that time was unfucking, that was like life-changing. And to do so, I actually were good at it that you liked. - And it was with this fancy production company that was handling like, the fact that they flew me to New York and they were booking my guests and I had access to like a studio and I had no concept of what a podcast was. There were none. So I signed, I don't even think I read the first line. I was like, yep, here's like take by organs. I don't care. And I was podcasting with them for like three years maybe and I made zero dollars of ad revenue. - So great. So you up, for all three years, you're scouting paid 5K per year. - Yeah. - Never negotiated it. - No. - And how often are you doing it? - Once a week. - Wow. - For the first year, it really was 'cause it's a production company and I love everybody there, mind you. But they were really trying to develop like a television show around it. And I was no TV star, you know what I mean? Like I had no experience. They were trying to like segment it out and produce it out and try to like find some type of a blueprint for a possible television show. So they had me do a lot of sizzles, a lot of pilots, all this stuff. The focus really wasn't on the podcast per se, but because there were two and a half other podcasts, we were able to like chart pretty quickly. - So crazy. - But there, it was like, I remember the podcast coming out like a month later, it was like number three on all, there were no categories back then, mind you. But there was eight podcasts. So there was none that it was pretty easy to like break in at the time. - But also you're good at it. Like we can also say that. Like if it was really bad, like you wouldn't have worked. - It wasn't great. - It wasn't great. But I was able to get like bravo guests because it threw Embassy row amazing. - So I was able to like kind of book guests and I became friends with Stasi Schroeder in that time because she came on as a guest and we clicked and she had a podcast, she had started a podcast around the same time. And I remember being out with her and like thank fucking God. I've told her this so many times. I remember her saying something like she could quit Vanderpump if she had wanted to because she had the podcast. And I'm thinking to myself, how the hell could you sustain a living on a podcast? - On five times a year. - What are we doing here? Like I don't have a color. I'm taking the bus to the studio. - And she, you know, awkwardly I kind of like, I was like, well what are we talking about? 'Cause we lived kind of in the same vortex on the charts. We had all the same sponsors at the time. - Same audience. - Same audience. And when she told me what she was making per month, I was like, I haven't made that in like ever in a year I haven't made, like I couldn't believe, I was shocked. Like I never would have come up with that number. So I go back to, what can you share the number? I don't wanna like speak for her and this is so long ago, but I feel like it was like at the time like $25,000 a month. - Yeah, which is amazing. It was a long time. Like that to me, I couldn't even believe that she was making a month, you know, 10, 12 years ago, whatever it was. And I was just like, what? I was like, I couldn't make that in five years. - Yeah, I got up to be here. - It's all retirement. And that's still it might not even hit me. - 250 episodes for me, that's crazy. - And I remember just being like, "Whoa, I had no idea the money that was in like ad revenue or the splits, any of this stuff." And she kind of clued me in and then I went back and I was like, "Oh, God, I get out of here." And they let me go. - So you went in the next day and you were like, you fuckers, like what are you doing? - What recoupable fees, I didn't realize I had signed a deal that like, I would have been fuming, like walk us through that. - I was just, I felt stupid first of all, obviously. - And I feel like that early in our careers though, where you just don't have any baseline. - I had no baseline, I had no idea. And I immediately went to everybody that I knew there like the higher ups and I was just like, "Hey." And it wasn't even on their radar to be honest. Like, my dumb little podcast, they're producing all these massive shows. Like, it wasn't flagging for them, they didn't know. Nobody knew what the world of podcasting was. When I signed that deal, who knows? And it had just kind of slowly started to explode. Like podcasting became like a thing. - Yeah. - And then they let me walk. - That's amazing. - Yeah. - So then you, when you walk to own the IP, - Yeah. - That's major. And you know, that's something I think about a lot with you too, is like, obviously I enjoy your content. I've said that a lot, but I also have always really respected how you've protected your IP. - Yeah. - And I know that you've said this before that it's show business, not show friendship. - Yeah. - And you've moved a lot from network to network to just try to get better deals every time. And so can you walk us through that a little bit? - Yeah. Well, I was with Embassy Row for three years, probably. And then I moved to Deer Media, which was a brand. I was like the only show on Deer Media because I had met the Bostics through podcasting. They were always so great to me, but you know, I was at Deer Media for maybe like six or seven years. And honestly, I, you know, I got an offer from another network that was just better. Something I really couldn't turn down at the time. And I took it. - Yeah. - And it like really wasn't like, it was so funny because everyone on like the internet was like, what happened? - Yeah. - This is like, this is pretty straightforward shit. - Yeah. - I was pregnant at the time. I was having a baby. I got offered, you know, a fucking killer MG. - Yeah. - And I said, okay, I'm gonna take it. - Yeah. - And that was that. - Yeah. - So I've been with my network now for maybe two years. And listen, I can be bought. - Yeah. - So I go. - You go where the money is. It's not lovely to say nobody wants to say that. I'm super loyal, but like listen, if someone like dangles a big fat check in front of me because I do have so many episodes that are able to be monetized with like back catalog ad sales, I walk with a pretty heavy catalog. - Yeah. - And I'm not like a new shiny toy, you know, at listen. I'm not getting the $130 million deal at Serious. - Yeah. - 'Cause I'm an old bitch, okay, but she runs real good. - Yeah. - It's like buying a Toyota. - She's listening. She's steady and she's consistent. We're not gonna have a boom of downloads anytime soon, but anytime I go into a meeting, I'm like, listen, I'm not the shiny new car on the lot, but I run real good for a really long time. I'm nothing if not consistent and I've got so many fucking episodes that you can slip ads into at a discounted rate. So I walk with a pretty heavy consistent catalog and there's value in that. - And I feel like a lot of people get stuck places because of some cost fallacy, like where you feel like, oh, I've already been here for so long with deer meaty. You'd be like, oh, I was right there for six years. So I guess I should keep staying 'cause like, I owe it to them or whatever. - I could go back, I could go anywhere. - A high percent. - I don't want people to get too comfortable with me. You never know what the fuck I'm gonna do. I'll whip in Nene all over the street. - Yeah, you whip in Nene. - In that Toyota. - So she's that Toyota, she perns well. - She perns. - She runs. - She runs. - No, I think that's such a good advice though to anyone in their career because it's like, we all end up getting so emotional about things and I love how you explain it because it's not emotional. It literally is about where am I going to be valued the most? And like you said, it's show business, not show friendship. - I have so many tiles to buy. - Okay, I have grass. I have children, it's really like not personal at all. And I have good relationships with everybody I've ever worked with. I could call any CEO from any network and be like, do you want to go have a martini and talk shit about people and they'd say, sure. - I mean, who would say no to that with you? - Also before we move on, can we go back to Lauren Sanchez really fast? - Yes, be sure. - Like we just need to know, like, were there any crazy anecdotes that we need to know about her? for social. She was lovely. - Oh, okay. - Don't hate to care about. - She was lovely. - Did she have like a future billionaire wife energy? - 1,000 percent. She was walking around that newsroom in an airway, legit, - Oh my god. - At 6 a.m. tits out. We loved her for it. The highlight of my experience with Lauren Sanchez was it was probably like a couple weeks into the internship and they had bagels every morning. And I was helping myself to a bagel as one does and she walked into the kitchen and she looked at me and she goes, eating is cheating and walked out. And I thought that's my bitch right there. I was like, yep, okay, done, sold. It was the best moment of my life. It sat with me for years and I remember running to an intern desk and he was like, guess what Lauren Sanchez just said to me. And keep in mind, I was like 82 pounds at the time. Like, eating was not cheating for me. Like I could have housed every fucking bagel and been just fine. But it was just like, you know, some people that would just send them into a downward spiral. I was like, that's my girl. Eating is cheating. I was like, was somebody tattooed on my forehead? What a star. - I think got that when I see her now where I'm like, she's definitely at dinner with Kris Jenner being like, eating is cheating. - Oh, it's so good. It's such a great line. - Mine really is. - It's so funny. It's not of the times now, but like I think she was back. I think she was trying to help me. I think she probably assumed that I was there like trying to be an on camera personality. And just was like giving me a little morsel of wisdom. - Yeah. - She's like, "And do you wanna borrow my airplane share?" - And I'm like, and I remember it was like purple. And I'm like, "Yes." Give it to me. - It looks amazing on me. - Amazing. - Shack here. What's it like to buy a car from Carvano 100% online and get it delivered to your door? Let me tell you, your car is here, Mr. Shack. Thank you, Mr. Carvano guy. Can't wait to take it for a spin. Only the best for you, Mr. Shack. - Hey, have you always been so big tall and handsome? Not always. I was 6'10" once. Seven days to love it or return it, Mr. Shack. Not that I would. You never do. No, I never do. So buy your car today on Carvano. Delivery fees may apply. See our seven-day return policy at Carvano.com. - Wired has always put a microscope on the people, power, and forces shaping our world. Uncanny Valley brings that same fearless reporting straight to your feet. Is Doge finally over? Will AI actually democratize American healthcare? Each week, wired journalists from across the newsroom are going to unpack where politics, technology, and Silicon Valley collide. From conversations with tech leaders across Silicon Valley, internet fandom, investigations, and government crackdowns on rigged gambling, we're taking you all over the news cycle, going straight inside the priorities, pressures, and power plays driving today's biggest decisions. Uncanny Valley tackles the questions keeping you up at night, and helps make sense of the future taking shape right now. Listen to new episodes every Thursday, wherever you get your podcasts. - With your career, you've obviously built it on being really outspoken and having really strong opinions, which is I think the reason that we all love you so much, like we were talking before about how you could never really use AI, 'cause we would know you took so strong. - Listen, I can't. I've tried. I've been saying, no, this isn't working. - But has that ever cost you a deal? - No. - So interesting. - No. I mean, I could lie for like sort, but no, not at all. - Amazing. - To be honest, I have said some crazy shit on my podcast. I'm so aware of what I'm saying all the time. Like the biggest Ponzi scheme of all time is people thinking that I'm like so unhinged behind the mic. - Yeah. - I've been doing this for so long. I do have some form of bumpers. I do kind of know where the line is. - I kind of do. I edge it very well, but like there is a line and I'm, it feels like I'm swerving down Mulholland, but I promise you, like I am 10 and two. I know exactly what I say, why I said it, what the backlash is gonna be, what the ramifications are. I've never lost a sponsorship. I know what the fuck is going on. I know the temperature, I know the audience were good. - There's an art to that though. - Well, I, here's the deal. I've been doing it for so long and I am 100% being myself all the time on the microphone. And I think where people get in trouble is when they are presenting like a minced, parsed version of themselves and then they slip. - Yeah. - If you're always keeping it one-hundo, people don't want to crucify and penalize you in the same way. So you get a lot more wiggle room. - Yeah. - And the audience is ready for it. It's never gonna be like, I can't believe. Like we've heard it all. It's a desensitization practice. And I'm so aware of what I'm saying all the fucking time. So therefore, it has not, no. - And with, like this is obviously such an endurance sport podcasting, you can do it for so long. And beyond just reading those ads, what has been your most passive or profitable, or what has been your most profitable income stream? And what are like the numbers behind it? - Well, podcasting, I mean, it's all ads. - So it is all ads. - It's all fucking ads. - Yeah, I mean, especially when you have a larger catalog and you are able to sell the ads in the back catalog, even if it's at a micro fraction of the rate, they're switching them out every few months. So you have constant ad revenue on episodes that you've already broadcasted. So that has been amazing. - Yeah, that's amazing. - And so obviously I know as a bitch Bible listener about Andrew, your husband, his pronouns on your podcast are she, which just always makes me pee in my pants. She's like, look at her, she's outside with the leaf blower. I don't know how that started. I'm sure she doesn't love it, but she doesn't listen to the podcast. - And she shouldn't. - No, she shouldn't. - I don't think that the partners of creators should consume their work. - No. - My boyfriend, I would die if he listened to my shows. - No, she gets the real thing all day, every day the turbo, real unedited version. So she doesn't need to hear. - But she's a good husband, like she's obsessed with you. - She's a good husband. - Yeah, which makes me so happy because I see so many relationships, like people, so many women message me and they are just with losers who don't take care of them. - No, don't marry those people, that's a dumb idea. - Yeah, but you're also, you're both bringing home the bacon. Like you, you know, is an amazing music producer. - Yeah. - You have this huge podcast. So how do you approach couple of finances together? - No. (laughs) - No, like absolutely not. - My money is my money and his money is also my money. - Yeah. - So he's the responsible one. - Yeah. - You know, he's the mortgage, he's the gas, he's the electric. If I want to redesign a powder room with imported tiles, that costs $4 million a square foot, that's on me. - Yeah. - You know, he's definitely more, this is like a guy that is, we like to live life the same way, we love to travel, we like to eat, like we enjoy spending money mostly in the same way, which is primarily on me. (laughs) But he's definitely more responsible, not more responsible, I wouldn't say, but he's more, what's the word? - Yeah, maybe more like responsible, like his spending is on the things that like the roof over our head and the lights and the gas, whereas like, you know, he's never gonna go out and like buy himself a crazy watch. - Yeah, or like come home with like a new car. - No, never, never, yeah. - No, he's pretty, I wouldn't say simple, that's not the right word, but he's chill like that. - But also you met when you were completely broke too. - Totally, so it's different because it's like you guys came up together. - Totally, yeah. - Yeah, he worked his ass off. I mean, his producer name is After Hours because he literally had to work like a day job as a sound engineer when we met. He had like four jobs when I met him. He was a sound engineer all day doing just like voiceover, commercial, jingle work. And then at night, as soon as his gig was over during the day, he would go and do sessions all night long. So After Hours, but you know, when you have, when you have to have hard financial conversations with him, you know, and maybe hard in quotations 'cause maybe it's not hard for you. - Yeah. - How do you bring them up and go about that? 'Cause I think that's really difficult for people in romantic relationships is they feel like it's gonna kill the vibe if they talk about money and you're so straightforward. So I sort of wonder how you handle those. - We haven't, I mean, kind of the beauty of the situation is that we both bring money to the table. So it's not really a conversation we have often. - Because if, you know, I like to keep my money separate. - Yeah. - Which is like, not, you know, maybe something I should keep to myself. But if I wanna go out and I always tell women, you have to have your own money on the side. - You have to. - You have a great situation where all of the money is on the side, but like you always have to have your own independent fuck you money. But what's also interesting is you talk to me, - Talk so much about your life. Like obviously, I know so much about Andrew. She's great, but also about your kids, Clyde, it's so cute and man. Do you feel like it's made you money having kids? So like I always wonder when I have kids if that's going, 'cause obviously it opens up new markets where you get to do like your little spoon hats and like talk about like press pumps. - No, not really. - I mean, childcare's expensive. - Yeah. - So it all evens out in the wash. - It kind of all evens out in the wash, but yeah, and I'm gonna be a lot more mindful moving forward of how like once he's a little older, like the lights are getting cut on Clyde. Like once he's more aware, like we're not gonna be doing paid sponsorship on my Instagram. - Oh, so you're gonna take him offline at a certain, like I would never put him in an ad. Like that's so insane. Like I personally, no judgment, do whatever you want, not for me. So you actually can put the kids on payroll though. Like I have friends who put their kids in ads, which is crazy, I agree. But they then pay the kids a part of the ad and you can put it in a custodial Roth IRA, which then grows tax-free for retirement and can make them a lot of money. - I want him to make his own money. - Yeah, but I know you're also like my money is my money. - Yeah, I'm like, if you get a job, okay? - No. - What is generational wealth? What about Tommy's wealth? - I wanna set him up for success, but like I would like him to do his own thing. - Yeah. - I don't want him like cashin' in. - Yeah. - I see these fucking kids whipping out of their high schools and their rain trovers and that ain't happening in my house. I could be a billionaire. That kid's gettin' a busted. He's gettin' the Toyota. - He's gettin' the Toyota. - From 1995 with bitch bible wrapped around it. Like we're not gettin' crazy here. I'm not raising a little assholes. - Yeah, no. - Not happening. - It is a difficult thing to like get the kids to actually have ambition when they do come from money. Like you had obviously so much ambition and so did Andrew 'cause I feel like you were both, you know, trying to get to the next level. - Yeah. - And they know that they're already at a level. It's really difficult. - Oh, I will make my- - I think you should never tell your kids about if they have any money coming towards them. - No. - And so they're really like set in a career. - No, I will make it my full time job to let them know that they have to go do their own thing. - Yeah. - And it could be a surprise down the line. Oh, you're gonna get a little something, but like that is icing on the cake. - Mm-hmm. Yes, 100%. I tell my piece three. I'm like, you know how pretty your backyard is, okay? Like you're so lucky. Like anytime we travel I'm like, Mommy went to the Hyatt and Palm Desert once a year and shared a room with four cousins over the parking lot. And that was live in large. You know, like we were not jet setting all over the place. We lived a very comfortable, like lovely, wonderful childhood. But like I was not flying business class to the Cotswolds, okay? And I just left, I try to instill that pretty often. Like I'm still excited about this because I didn't do this. So I don't want you growing up thinking like, my biggest fear in life is that he will grow up and not get excited about things. Or be like, oh my God, this is so cool. This is amazing. I'm so happy to be here. Like this is so exciting. 'Cause me and my husband still get like that. If we go to like an amazing place, we're like, oh my God, this is, like, you get, it's such a thief of excitement to be so used to like exciting fun things. - Yeah, it takes a lot of time. And I just find that, you know, like some of these trust fun babies, they go to these hotels and they, you know, they grew up going summering in Europe and this. And they're just so jaded from the experience. And I find that to be so pathetic. - Yeah, you need to keep them hungry. - Keep them hungry. I'm gonna have two boys get to work, bitches. - I know, you're gonna keep catering mommy's party, whatever it is. - Sweat equity, I'm gonna have them in two tuxedos when I have parties with tray past drinks, collecting coats, clean and dishes. - 100%. Maybe like a little massage with their tiny hands. - Like a warm towelette post dinner, like just walking around to my friends, 100%. - Oh yeah, and that's good for your like future, that's great Sam, your future as a pregnancy influencer, which you already are, something else. - It's totally okay. So, okay, you are with child. - I am. - It's always scary to ask that or say that, but I feel confident, 'cause it's, 'cause you can see like a foot coming out of me. - Yeah, like I think so. I feel good about that. And are, is there any pregnancy financial advice that you would give, or that you would get people or motherhood financial advice? - You know what, I waited. I knew how I wanted to do motherhood. So I waited until I was in a financial place to do motherhood the way that I wanted to, because I have no shame in a little bit of childcare game, you know what I mean? Like, it's, people don't love to say it. And I think there's like a lack of transparency when it comes to childcare. I would also love this opportunity to say that I currently, I do not have an Annie. - Wow. - I don't have an Annie. - Brave. - I know. - By choice. - Clip that. - Yeah. - Oh, you're doing take care. - I'm like, I mean, my son is in basically, seven-to-seven daycare of the Montessori, whatever you wanna call it, preschool. No, he's there like four days a week, nine to, you know, 330, sometimes four if I feel like it. And yeah, I've all, I waited until I was able to kind of fund the transition of being a selfish dumb bitch into being a mother. So, you know, like for me, the night nurse thing, I was like, I ain't having a baby if I don't have a night nurse. Not lovely to say, I will lose my fucking mind. So, I waited, we do a night nurse. From then, I'll transition into having a nanny for the first, you know, however long, just so that I have a separate pair of hands in the house. And, you know, I love to have my kid loved up on by another person like I, that does not make me feel less than as a mother. It doesn't make, it doesn't, I feel like it doesn't jeopardize like our bond or our relationship. Like I want my son loved on by as many people as possible. So, I've always just like thought that was the greatest gift. 100% and makes it easier. It really does. Yeah, and it's such a necessary investment too, 'cause like how are you going to run your business and like bring home the bacon if you don't have support? Like you're gonna bring your kid here. I mean, not to meet him, but. Oh my God, I literally haven't like chained up to a pole. Yeah, like I put him in a crate. Yeah, that's not happening. We need some help. We need some help. And also, I just don't co-sign on the trope like of this mother who's disheveled and tired and bleeding out. That doesn't work in my family dynamic. I don't want to be that person. Yeah. I'm not that kind of mother, you know? The whole thing of it's so hard. And I'm sure everything is hard. Yeah, everything is hard. I think it's all just like kind of a mindset and how you build your infrastructure. That was not going to work for me. If you're an annoying person with an annoying husband, you're going to have an annoying kid and an annoying life. Think about it. And if you're cool, you're going to have cool kids. Listen, it's all like how you create the culture. Yeah, it's so true. So that's, it is what it is. You have to set the vibe. You got to set the vibe. So important. And the bumpers and just like the foundation of your family. So true. And it starts kind of with mom. You're sort of the only person that I know, which is so crazy to say who talks about motherhood that way. And it makes me, even my producer Sam, who's a guy, was like, wait, when Jackie talks about motherhood, I think maybe I could be the partner to someone who's like having a, you know, carrying a child. Like we are all, it makes, I think you're gonna up the birth rate. Because there's so much. Yeah, like there's, I feel like there's so much sacrifice. I mean, obviously there's always sacrifice. There's always sacrifice with every single. Yeah. And I always tell my friends who are like starting a family or I'm like, listen, it's not that, like, like we've gone real doom and yeah, everyone loves to like the self-importance of just being like so blood out. But like it doesn't have to be that way. You can make a choice in everything to make life easier, more fun and just do it your way. And that's such a good mindset shift. Yeah, my son's a vibe. I fucking love hanging out with him. He's so cool. And there's always that. I punch him off to somebody else and go have a cocktail. Like what are we talking about here? And there's also ways to do childcare that's less expensive. Like you could do a nanny share, you could do daycare. Like there's lots of ways to get help, yeah. My son's in a monastery. He's growing microgreens, like playing with chickens, comes home covered in glitter. I don't know what the fuck happened. But he's having the best time, sleeps like an angel in his great at restaurants. So what can I do about it? There you go. And that's all that any of us want from our kid. Exactly. Perfect. You're raising a good one. So let's talk about your home, though. 'Cause right now home interest rates are at 7%, which is so crazy. And it is so out of reach for so many Americans to own a home. Oh, it's impossible. It's crazy. Yeah, it's crazy. But it's something that you've really invested in. Like you really love your home. You love renovating. So do. Can you tell us about this crazy home renovation? Like I've seen it online. I've heard you talk about it. But how much is this costing? How much did you originally plan for it to cost? Give us a lot less. (laughing) A lot less. I probably jumped the gun on this a little bit, but I was really using El Nino as an excuse to kickstart it because the truth is our drainage in our house has always been an issue. So like we've had to replace the floors two times because of groundwater that came up from just such poor drainage in the yard and the way that our house is set up, it is on a hill and there's a lot of like incline into the house and it's a lot of land that just pours into our house. - Wow, yeah. - So with science, it was science. - Yeah, it was too. - And unfortunately to do the backyard, they had to dig up everything, like down to the concrete slab, like down to the bare bones of the yard. - We hit earth. - We hit earth and the problem is, once you start a renovation like that, you kind of don't know what you're gonna find. - Yeah. - So we had planned for a certain level of renovation and then now we're that severely over budget, but it's done. - And it's gorgeous. - It's gorgeous. - And we love it. - And then you know, like, are we gonna report concrete? - I don't think so. I think I need the marble tiles, you know what I mean? - Yeah. - You need the stone. - Yeah. - You need the stone pavers. - And I know you love to go to Home Depot. You love to go to that marble warehouse girl. - Get me to a marble slab shop and then let me sniff out some slabs. And like, did we need a green, you know, soapstone that was imported from Italy for the small countertops? Probably not, but I was already in it. Once you're in the hole, live in abundance, you know? Like, I'm not gonna put, I don't wanna put a porcelain slab on the hearth. - I gotta do the soapstone. - I don't know. - It'll just, I went, I was seven months pregnant. In the deep, deep valley, it was 104 degrees, okay? And I'm on my hands and knees, like a big fat bitch picking rocks, picking marble rocks for my fireplace because I didn't want them to be too one-dimensional. I wanted it to have like range and size and shade. So I'm standing there like a crazy person. I'm like, I need to get 180 square feet of this material. How many rocks do I need to pick? The guy's like, you need to pick about 450 rocks. I'm like, copy that. And I'm sweating my balls off quite literally picking rocks 'cause that's how much I care. And it's perfect. (laughing) - I think so too. It sounds like, I mean, I've seen it on Instagram stories. - It looks amazing. - It's fucking amazing. - Yeah. - I killed it. If I'm allowed to say that without being disgusting, I really nailed the fuck out of it. It's perfect. Anyone that would want to change it, I don't trust. I wouldn't even let them buy my home. I'd be like, you're a serial killer. If you don't get this, there's something wrong with you. This is like, you know, some of the bathrooms that get a little crazy. Like maybe you don't like antique mirror tiles. - Yeah. - Sure, but this, you're nuts. - Yeah, you love it. And this is obviously probably a big deal for you too, 'cause like I said, you really came from not that much. - And I don't listen. I came from, it's more like you didn't, like you've, yeah, sorry. - No, no, no. I don't wanna say, yeah, let's re-finish. - I don't wanna revise history. Like I had a beautiful life growing up, but I was not a trust fund baby. We'll put it that way. - Okay. - I didn't have like, my dad's not an agent. - Yeah, we didn't have a leg up. - No, no, my parents like very much so like I had to work. - Yeah. - So you've told me for a long time that you were sort of faking rich while being completely broke. - 1,000%. - Could you tell us a little bit about that? Like what did it look like? - Well, I think that like when I had no source of income, I was very aware that I didn't have like a direction, a path, a skill, an education. Like I didn't have anything on the table. And I think I hit like a moment when I was maybe like, in my 20s, like early 20s, I had this like moment where all of my friends, all of my best friends growing up were like really academic. Like UCLA, you see, like they all had like scholarships and were really like educated people and they all had like stuff lined up. And I kind of hit like 21, 22 where I was like, oh, I don't have like anything going on. Like this is, this is getting a little bleak. Like this is dark and you can only like pretend like, you know, being an intern at like NBC. That's like cool. - It's only cute for a little bit. There's like a very small period of time where you got away with it. - Totally. And then it's like, oh wait, what are we doing after this? - Yeah. - Like what am I doing in five years? Like where am I going? What am I, I don't have a car. Like this is getting a little sad. - Yeah. - And when I had nothing, I was very much so trying to project the facade of like lots of stuff and the secret projects popping off like a project. Like I was like, we gonna really, I don't know what we're doing over here. So I never acted more like, you know, it was just pathetic and so embarrassing. Like were you buying to like make the illusion? - I wasn't, well I couldn't buy anything, but like for instance, Andrew's career kind of started to take off and I was like, this is my meal ticket right here. So you know, I was able to travel with him a little bit and kind of like ride his co-tails for a couple years. So like if he was going to London, like he would, I would get to go to London. - Yeah. - And I would be taking the pictures of like all the things, but like I was there with $13. I was living off of his per diem. I was going to Nando's and Milk and Two meals, but I'd be like backing him, like making it like I was jet sending all over the world, like living like this life. When in reality, I had no job, no income, no $14 in the bank, crippling credit card debt. My car was repossessed, nothing on the table. Like absolutely nothing on the table. So it was just like this really fabricated lifestyle. - And you must see that so much in LA now too. And that just reminds me of like every person on social media. - Oh god. - That's always like you can't compare yourselves to what you see because people are, it's like such a facade. - The more that someone posts about how rich they are, the less money they have. And the more they shove it in your face, the more insecure they are. - No, totally because like if you have anything, don't you just like, don't you just want to keep that to yourself, like you don't want to cousin coming out of the woodworks. - No! - I was king you for alone. - You don't want to get in the fender bender and you have to go all the way to court. - It's not of the times. - No, no, no. - It's just not, it's so not cool. And everyone with their berken unboxings and this is so bad. - And I'm like, honey. - But we also like, have it been offered berkins. - No, like our pain to sort of share. - 100%. - Yeah. - Like if I got off her one, you know. - No, we would get it. - I would get it. - Yes, of course. - And I would be like, hello. - Yeah. - I would just play it. - Uh-huh. - Yeah. - Like it would be here right now, thus. - I'd have it perched next to the coffee, but once again, haven't been offered one. - Yeah. - Probably will never happen for either of us. - I can't buy one right now. I'm in the hole. I've been looking for you at the yard. - It's not good. - It's a lot. But you'll get out of it. That's what I love about you. I always, my favorite financial thing to say to people is, don't cry about spilled milk if you didn't lose the cow. - Sure. - 'Cause like, I really believe-- - I'm the cow. - You're the cow. - And I do say the truth. - So true. - I'm a pregnant woman. - Listen, I'm leaking fluids out of these boobs, as we speak. I am quite literally the cow, but it's like you, you have so much. You can count on yourself so much. - I don't know if you are in a position where you feel like you're so fucked. Maybe you spent too much on a yard, but also there's people who feel like their finances are already so far gone. They might as well finance that trip to Coachella, and like, final pay later that Reformation dress and all this stuff. - No, we're active. - 'Cause you know the world's end day. - I've been there to end that. I know how that works out. It's not correct. - Yeah. - That's what the young people, that's what they, you know. - Now, I'll dial it back for a few months and then I'll-- - Exactly. - I'll figure it out. - And you'll find another what you are the cow. So it's like, you'll find other ways to make that milk, girl. - 'Cause this is a great analogy. - And in the meantime, I get to like look at my cute, young, you love what you bought. - I'm so happy. Okay, is there, I want to make sure you do get your tune out. So we'll get out of here, but is there a question that you always want to get asked, but never have the chance to answer? That was this like intense interview I want to feel like. - She's just, okay, Barbara wants to hear. - Yeah, Barbara's here, girl. - Is there any-- - No. - No. - Really? - Okay. - How'd you get so-- - Listen thin. - Yeah. - Mostly light. - Do I-- - But are your diets secrets? - Yeah. That's the big one. - How did you get just so frail whilst pregnant? - How are you pregnant? - But so skinny. - Just so, like, are you okay? - Are you okay? - Do you need a sandwich? You're so thin. Oh my God, we're all worried about you. This is an intervention. How'd you get so skinny? - That's my question. I would love to be asked. - Perfect. - Yeah. - We'll end there. - Thank you guys so much. Make sure that you rate, review, subscribe. It helps us show so much. We'll see you next week. Jackie, thank you so much for being here. - Thank you so much. - No, thank you so much. - That was fun. - And yeah, stay rich.