The Norwegian Method: Science vs. Soul – Kristian Blummenfelt

Physically, a terminator, but he's mentally so fast but there. Yes. And stuff like that is just. F*cky, I don't know. I'm f*cking gonna prove that I got wrong. Christian, a bloomin' felt, apparently the fittest man on the planet. There is some real numbers backing that up. I was in hospital and. You know, it was kind of touch-and-go whether my leg would come back together. You were. like one of the reasons why I was lying there and I was like, "Dude, I've gotta come back." If I do anything with my life, I want to race this man and I want to beat him one more time. It hurts more to lose. 'Cause so many people like think of the great goal and think of all of this, but I've talked to a few athletes now. And at the end of the day, they're just like, "Jesus, thank God I didn't lose." I've been looking at myself as the guy who's supposed to win the races. And if I do, it's just like ticking off the box. Of course, it tastes good. If I don't do it, it's two or three or even four weeks where it just. Yeah, it comes back on the mind. I always did wonder whether I got in your head a little bit. You can't really do a race. Like, the winner takes it all on the race day. I also felt it was my sort of last chance to beat you. You do it for 98% of the right reasons in life. And 2% is for the assholes out there, you know? The people that say you can't do it. Being on training camps with the boys and then. I was on the hour eight and just thinking, "How can I do this?" This is. I'm loving it, you know? Like, I'm in the zone. It's more important to focus on the first win in Hawaii right on the second win, you know? Like, you won at the time. So that's really what's getting me up and out of the bed in the mornings. (upbeat music) Christian, Christian, and Blumenfeld. Apparently the fittest man on the planet. I love it. That's gotta be pretty cool. 'Cause objectively, you actually have something to say. It's not so much like a feel thing. And today's show, "Blumenfeld, going mental." I appreciate the time. How are you? I'm good, I'm good. Thank you for having me. Yeah, I've just made it back home to Bergen now after like close to three months of traveling, racing a lot. So I definitely feel it's nice to have a little bit of down time now with having close to five weeks at home in Bergen before building up for the next two, second half of the season with the first challenge route for the first time in Germany and then trying to do whatever I can to get that race in Kona in Hawaii in October. (laughing) We'll get there, we'll get there for sure. But I have to ask, traditionally we ask on the show, when you hear "going mental," like Christian going mental, what does it mean to you? What comes up on your head? What does going mental mean to you? I feel it's the inside drive. I guess most athletes is sort of put together in a strange way. Yeah, it's often I guess like something missing in the brain in order to be able to do what we are doing together. And I guess, yeah, like what you could do physically is one thing, but I guess most athletes it's also having sort of that mental strength. And I think that's what have got me to where I am today as well. But yeah, it's a hard to pinpoint, I guess. It's more like that's inside drive and the hunger of getting there. Yeah, I love it. I mean, it's very different for everybody. And that's why like for me, going mental is probably your last six weeks. Like I mean, you redefine record books, you redefining what's possible doing cool things in triathlon, but that kind of schedule. I mean, it was four races, sort of two and a half continents, almost like let's just say a lot of travel in between. Two full distance races, two half distance races. I mean, then the first one goes wrong, goes down the drain and or not down the drain, but I mean by your standards, you go out there and it feels like the one thing that can hold you back is mechanical things. But what I'm really interested in is a lot of athletes after that first race would have been like, no, this is a terrible idea. Like there's no way I should be doing this. What made you get on a plane to G-Long like six days later? So first of all, I'd say like it was sort of a untraditional schedule. Like it was a bit optimistic and even when I sort of talked through the schedule with like I had a quick brief or like discussion with Ulov about what he was thinking about at the end of it. It is risky. Like sort of had to sort of, we were just passing back and forth but I still really believe that yeah, yeah, yeah. Like I will definitely bounce back from each race quite quickly and the idea was coming in with a high volume going into that block and then sort of just stir through with a little bit more intensity in between. But then getting it to the first race and you know, like being 15 minutes or so behind travel fully in the race and just feeling crap. It's definitely like a point where sort of question the decisions. You know, like if I wasn't able to turn it around for G-Long and like imagine having two poor races in a row and then having like to still travel rest of the loop around the globe in order to finish the travel schedule would have been tough. So I think I felt I was in a good shape going into New Zealand. I was just a little bit off like I was drinking with a little fever like a few days before the race and felt that sort of wasn't a good shape but wasn't able to get out in the full distance and luckily I felt good on the training just straight after and also having when I was going into that block of racing I was always just looking one race ahead. So it definitely helped with the motivation to have guys like Yelligins and Hagen Wilde on the start list in G-Long. So I was always just looking at the next race rather than thinking three or two races ahead and I think that was helping me through that process as well as yeah I was recovering really well and had good legs on three out of the four races. Quick break, today's episode is brought to you by Aitsleep. 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Yandfardino on Aitsleep.com/Yandfardino you can get up to 350 euros off that's Aitsleep.com/Yandfardino code Yandfardino for up to 350 euros off and if you don't like it you can return it for 30 days. They are that confident and quite frankly so am I. Definitely fair to say and the turn around is something I really want to get into later. Also like one of your leading slogans but it really got me thinking that okay so it's not just the PR mode you actually had a little bit of doubt maybe after the first one but now you finish that set of racing with what should be considered a world record. I mean it's what should be considered the fastest time ever. If you consider it's a proper swim and that race I mean phenomenal performance. What does that do for your mind leading into Kona? Definitely a good confident booster again like one thing to do quick splits like that but also in one way I was Martin one really was quite close to me like 90 seconds behind in a full distance arm and it's not far so even though I was the strong one on this fourth lap when I was third lap of the run I was actually winning more against all the guys in that race at this time of the year last year so I still feel like I have to do the sort of the build up towards October right because I would say I was still the big favorite for the World Championship last year at this point of the season. So I still have that in my mind and yeah do you think that the like with all the attention is now in the pro series like it brings all the the best athletes together for all the races it's also really lifting up the level in the sport and it's making it more challenging like it's more guys who can be after and fight for the win. And I think it was still guys who maybe didn't play their cards this smartest. Like Iwana Schoenberg to be one of the guys who was going out in a three or five pace. If he's facing a little bit better in Kona, he can be dangerous guy. Yalegins had his first one. So even though I was able to get on top of him, he was taking the win in maybe one of the strongest races out sort of a world championship. It's still a different beast I guess in Kona. And even like Duke Countryman Pateglanga, he tented to show up with some amazing legs there. So yes, like it's good to be able to tick off some boxes. But I still have the feeling that it is four years since my last World Championship title. And that's something that's sort of coming back on my like, okay, this year I really have to do it right. But that's exactly what I'm trying to say. Yes, physically it's super amazing, right? But if you look at your Kona build and everybody's Kona build, you have this long build up and you got to altitude and then you try and put in a bit of heat preparation and you know, you're trying to do everything perfect. Whereas this block in my words was Kamikaze. Like it was a Kamikaze, four years of race block. I get hasn't been done before. And according to every physiology, but also mentally, I mean, coming from a full distance race and traveling and all these kind of things mentally makes you kind of fatigued. And so I'm wondering, doesn't that point to you that that's actually the perfect preparation for you? Because you just have to be in the zone. You can only focus on the next race and you can't overblow the big target. Yeah, I agree. I agree. But that's like, if I do the same build up for Kona, like I've been thinking about doing a classic vote, and then Kona, then people sort of blame it. They would say, "Oh, like if I'm not ending up with not winning, I won't say." That's because you did the season build up. Like you're just ruining it yourself. So in one way, I would like to do the same. But also, I feel it is risky to put in five full distance races in one season before Kona. I guess even during four, it's a bit on the borderline many. I still haven't decided what to do with the second half of the season, not just because what other people are saying, but in the same time, like I feel that my build up for this last year was good. Like I felt I was in my, like in pretty good shape. I was maybe just under fueling a little bit on the run there, and that was maybe combined with a little bit for pacing. I went out a little bit aggressively on the run, following Gustav rather than just staying at the more ideal pace that Kasper did. So I don't want to, like sort of rip everything apart of what I did last year, this is because I came third. I think I could still do some similar of that build up for the World Championship. And as well, I was close in 2022. I was like in the battle with Gustav until energy lab. So in one way, I feel I don't need to redo everything compared to what I've done before. It's more like getting it right on the race day. You said you, you know, you put some emphasis on what people think or at least you are aware of it. And then you followed Gustav instead of doing the thing that is what you actually somewhere inside knows is part of your method. Why do you think that is? Because I think your approach is very methodical. But what is it in your mind that you need to kind of flick the switch to then trust sick to your guns? I guess it's pulled back to me last year. I was sort of of pray that he would just have a magical day. And I thought it would be certain to defend myself by following him and then getting the advantage by staying with him. Then maybe just trusting my own pace for a second half. So yeah, it is scary to do it in a World Championship. I feel that was maybe what I was learning from what Kasper did last year. And I was also doing a little bit the same strategy in Texas two weeks ago, like let the people up front do their damage, break their legs, and then just wait for that second half to run. And like even on the second lap in Texas, I was more focusing on getting nutrition in than going for sort of trying to catch up to Martin. The slogan, I don't know if you still have it on your bike, but it was such like it hit home so much. Because so many people like think of the great goal and think of all of this. But I've talked to a few athletes now. And at the end of the day, they're just like, Jesus, thank God I didn't lose. And it resonates so much. But how is it or what is it that your deepest fuel is a fear of loss? I think it comes down to that a little bit with like going mental and the attitude a lot of athletes is having is that they're looking at themselves as the number one. Like that's the order we're having in a race. People love to have the big number one on their on their bib like the and that's sort of the world we're living in. I think it was same with you when you were racing. Like you looked at yourself as the number one racer and like when you came into the race as a favorite, you also wanted to get out of the race at the favorite. And then like the world is in level. And I think that's the same how I'm looking at it. Like I've been looking at myself as the sort of the guy who's supposed to win the races. Of course, it's it tastes good. But it's it's hurt way more to lose to someone. And that that comes down to like if I win a race like of course it's a sweet feeling. Next few hours that the world is in balance. But if if I don't do it, it's two or three or even four weeks where just yeah, it comes back on the mind. And when I'm jumping into the pool and then just thinking about the small mistakes that didn't training that maybe we're leading up to the loss. So yeah, it's just yeah, it's just so painful. And I think that's driving me a lot in training. And yeah, even like the feeling I had in on Queen K in 2024 or when I was sort of shuffling an hour slower on the run course in my schedule time. Like just the reflection that's going through the mind on those awful days is one thing. But I also think that yeah, just going through those races makes the good one feel even better. Like if I compare the race in New Zealand where I was struggling from the first and second care on the run. And you know, when you're looking down on the watch and you realize it's oh shit, it's 40k to go. And I'm sort of out of the race. I have to pull the sort of emergence of break and just be able to in order to be able to finish the race compared to having the legs ahead in Texas where it's just like, well, okay, I'm running three third of pace now. It's mood. We're counting up 18k 24k getting close to 30k before I'm even feeling tired. So, yeah, it's an interesting contrast between the good and the bad days. Like it's like I can relate so much because yeah, exactly like you say validating is not the same as coming back. And on that note, do you think that perhaps New Zealand was actually the key to have like a bad race first up and then just have this hunger and a little bit of something else spurring you on? Could have been because also this the race in the ceiling was maybe the easiest race out of the four. Like I would say there was the least stacked field. When I came to it, I had hated Nanehalla. Ocean side was sort of what people call this. The real assistant opener and then Texas again, one of the strongest fields. So maybe I was a little bit like underprepared as well. Like not in terms of my physical shape but maybe like mentally or maybe maybe I was coming into T2 and thinking that yeah, I have it now. I just have to put together a okay run rather than being on the person being sort of more on the aggressive side. So maybe I took it took a little bit to ESE on the first one and I was like a slap in the face. Well, I mean, you certainly didn't take it easy in in July, coming 90 seconds down to both yellow and Hayden. I mean, they're not exactly slow runners. So I just really think I get the physiology and I get that you're able to run a 106 most days of the week. But I do wonder if you need that little bit of a setback to activate it in you. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. I'm not sure. I think in the long run, I guess good to have those bad days in order to just do everything in preparation well. Like if I was just like having an ESE win and - Peace to win. you see an easy win in Jilong, then probably I would lose to guard a little bit for Ocean side. Because it is tricky to be on the toes and being focused for 12 months straight. So I do think it helps to have some tough days. But again, I do also enjoy racing the guys up front and it wouldn't have come easy anyway, especially not having raised the Hayden for the last three or four years in short course. And yeah, it was definitely a guy I also wanted to show that I could beat on the run. So I was maybe more mentally prepared for run than being put on the pressure on the bike. And maybe they were a bit opposite. Yeah, absolutely. Just do you have the same thing in a run in a training session as well? That when a race doesn't go well, but in a training session, if a training session is just a 20, 30 watts off or just a few seconds off, does it bother you? I was in not really. If I'm getting dropped by Gustav and Casper, then it sort of hurts more. But more often I would say I'm the one who is setting the level up. So if you were doing six or seven by 10 minutes on the bike, somehow every time we are standing on the bottom of the hill, the two of them are just looking at me and waiting for me to start the intervals and then they sort of follow a few seconds behind. So I do feel often I'm the one who is sort of setting the pace for the session and then they continue. We just follow along and maybe after three or four intervals, they are coming to the front if they feel for it. But I'm also sort of fine with adjusting the training. Like I'm not stressing about doing a special run at the three 20 pace if I'm feeling like garbage. But I'm also not celebrating a threshold session if I'm doing seven, three minute pace. I would say my emotions for the training can be quite flat. Of course it's easier to do a good session but I'm not getting stoked necessarily by having a good session because I know that it is in the races worth matter. All my life I have had Achilles problems. It is something I've spent months and years on trying to rehab and recover. And finally in 2022, my wife introduced me to pillar performance. But really caught my attention was their athlete approach on clinical micronutrition for performance. Not just general health supplements but evidence based formulas designed specifically to support athletes under real load. And they're all tested for purity and bioavailability. When I spoke with Damien the founder about my injury, he mentioned a specific collagen peptide called Tendo forte that they'd been testing. The team arranged to get me some samples. I introduced them to my daily rehab and the rest is history. Now available as pillar collagen repair, it provides targeted support using Tendo forte which has been shown in clinical research to support connective tissue repair and recovery. Collagen repair has in turn made it into my daily routine. First thing in the morning, the warm glass of water half a lemon and some salt, I swear by it. If you want to give it a try, use code [email protected] or for North American listeners on thefeed.com. That's code going mental for 15% off first time purchases. I wish I had that emotional stability because, oh man, I hated it. When training didn't go right and when something went wrong, oh man, it was just, I really struggled to leave it at the door and just leave it at that session. But then, times were different and also you raised so much more and that you probably have more race experience. But I do find it interesting that you have this set, like this kind of setback in a race and same thing in Kona because you mentioned it in 24 in Kona. That was, I mean, it was a tough year, right? You came into Paris, which I'd love to get into in a moment. But then, you have this walking race, walking you're an hour behind. I've done the same thing in 2017 and it took me like months. I rode off the season and I went into the winter and I took all this fuel. You come back and a couple of weeks later set a world record. Like, does it ever feel like that's enough to make up for it? Oh, you're comparing the New Zealand race. I was thinking Kona in 24 because then after Kona in 24, I was basically in the basement. So I had to have a couple of months rest and I was like, in my race schedule back then, I also had the plan to do a new seal. There was 73 World Championship. I think it was in December. But yeah, on Queen K, I was just, yeah, I called in off season, I told myself, okay, I need a month rest, no training just completely off. So I think that was just restarting everything. Of course, I was hungry for the comeback, but I also knew I had to recharge the batteries because after both the Paris and Kona again, I was trained from energy because of the, I was straight from the 2021 Olympic games. It was basically no rest because it was straight from the Olympics to the World Series Grand Final to trying to give it a ready for Kona before it was postponed. And I did the custom meal race in the end of 2021 and then St George and it was always like a new sort of challenge ahead. And when I was done with Kona in 2022, it was almost straight back into short distance racing because I went back to St George, seven's been trained and had to be muted. So it's like no real rest until Paris. And even going into Paris, the whole 2024 season, I was, I wasn't able to bridge up that one minute gap ahead to both Alex and Hayden. And the race is a early season in 2024 when the, I would say like poorly, like it was just not able to get the legs bit up again on the run. And I would say maybe the most challenging part mentally there were that after the altitude camp in Fondrume before the Olympics when I went down to sea level, I didn't get to respond on my on the run training that I was, that I understood I needed in order to fight for the win. Like the run spits was the same after that altitude camp as they were before my race in Yokohama a few months earlier. So I felt like, okay, this is, I'm not at the level, I need to be in order to win the race. But then again, like you still sort of practice yourself that, okay, there's still a way to win it. Like there's still, if I put everything on the line, if I have magical legs, if it just suddenly turn around somehow magical, then I still have a chance. But I would say deep inside, I sort of realized that the level I had in training was probably not enough. While going into Tokyo, I felt that I'm 90% chance, I'm like 90% chance of winning race. I just don't need to do anything stupid. And to go into the sort of following games as a rating champion and thinking I have maybe 10% chance of winning race and I can't step a single step wrong. That was, yeah, freaky. Because your coach at the time, Olaf Alexander-Buhi, said that you needed some distraction in 2023 and that the hunger wasn't quite the same. Like, what were you chasing that maybe wasn't Paris? Or do you think it was just an overload? I guess it was more like an overload. I think for me and who I was with the boat or we disagreed a bit on what went wrong going into Paris. And maybe it was black off break in between the 22sies and the 23s. Maybe it was like it was always something happening. But I also think that maybe the way we went with the training was a big too much tilted towards long distance and we didn't use what we learned in the past in training. But we did it. As you know, when you are discussing the plan for training, you can discuss it as much as you want with the coach and then together, you never know for sure in advance. You just agree on going for one pathway or another and just think we won a little bit the wrong way the last six months going into Paris. Okay, because I have to ask, I mean, I was there as a commentator, right? And I mean, there was a bit of chaos around the course and things were up and down and I'm sure as an athlete, it was super tough because you know, you get an email at four in the morning saying the day has been changed. But what really struck me and I've been wanting to ask you this for like two years, all of a sudden, I don't know, 48 hours or before, it was like Christian Bloomfeld is going to win the tour in 2028 and he's looking for this and then your coach at the time was going around the village asking other cycling coaches that I knew and they're like, they give me a call and they're like, again, what is going on? Christian, is he like, I mean, it's the Olympic final tomorrow. We turned out to be the day after and you were sharing cycling plans. What was going on there? No, I didn't really share too much cycling plans, but people start talking around. So I didn't say anything really about it. I was just asked around it and maybe the timing there wasn't. It wasn't the best timing of getting those things leaked out, but going into race we did folk with it with like some different teams, but I wasn't ready to go out with those kind of bold statements that came out a few days before the race. Like, yeah, it was maybe a little bit blown up a little bit. And yeah, my focus wasn't on that at that time. My focus was more on the race itself. But yeah, both both of both went south. I would say. Yeah, fair enough, but it just struck me as, you know, you're going in as the defending Olympic champion and there's all this thing going on and I didn't quite understand whether you were trying to just release some pressure or whether this is just something that generally happens in your mind and you're just like, no, I didn't. You had great plan. The thing is, I didn't really comment those rumors at that time. It was maybe all that was commenting it to the journalist in the village. And I had nothing to say really. So maybe I was miscommunication there. So from my point of view, it was a bit unnecessarily bring that topic up few days before the Olympics because it's like at that point, the focus should have been the race. But again, I don't think that was impacting the results in itself. Without feel, I was coming in a little bit like behind where I should have been like physically and mentally, it didn't bother me too much. It was more like I was running too slow. I think that was the main main issue in the race. Yeah, you really strike me as you know, I lean goo, the the freeze gear. How she always says it's evidence over affirmation. And I feel like you draw all your confidence from the training. Whereas I was always the guy who was like, yes, you can do this. Come on, you can keep going. Do you have an inner dialogue like in your mind? Do you do you sometimes coach yourself through like hard moments? Yeah, but I feel estranged when I'm training by myself. I'm often thinking like, like if I'm running a heel reps, I can think, oh, this is crap. This is crap. This feels awful. But I could just do the same numbers. But if I ride the same session with your starting customer, I can feel I'm in control. I'm in control. Like this is fine. When I see someone else around me is hurting more than I do, then I can feel more sort of, okay, I'm within myself. So I feel like the inside the monologue is a little bit different if I'm training by myself or if I'm training with others. Yeah, just adapt to you then. Which really brings me a little bit to the origins. I'd like to switch gears here a little bit because we hear about the Norwegian method, so much in triathlon. And it's very different to the Norwegian method that we heard about at the Winter Olympics. And I would love to know whether that's something that actually happened to you because the cultural one where you're not allowed to keep score until you're 13, you get no medals and results that never published, is kind of the opposite thing of what you and Olaf became famous for. Did you actually have that? Was that actually part of your life? Yeah, like I do think it's more important to let the kids be active and enjoy sports as long as possible. And I think from my standpoint, I grew up as a swimmer. And I would say I was like a mediocre swimmer. It was more like it was a place for everyone and I really enjoyed the training aspect of it. Combined with I think I've always loved training. So from my side, I've always been that kid who was maybe training too many hours and maybe the parents were thinking that it's unhealthy for that kid to be doing 20 to 25 hours at that age. But for me, that's always been my dream. When did you start? How old are you? I'm not swimming. 20 to 20 with running and football and I get it every so I give it this. But I would say if we look at the training philosophy, as often being from the very beginning, when I started with Alex Viten back in 2010, he was more focused on building that engine than focusing on speed. Or approach to Olympic distance has always been like having bigger capacity and engine and then have the minimum focus on the speed. So we have just enough speed to have the enough speed to do for the three minute pace for the one case. And you know, if I can do a 400 on the track and I can run it below 65 or something, then I'm definitely quick enough to do 72 on the track. And it's not the speed at the limitation factor. So from the young age when I started working with Aalala, it was a lot of threshold focused on the training and the ground. What's young age? Sorry, turned her up. But what age does that? That's like when I was 16. Okay. So I started working with Aalas Viten when I was 16 back in 2010, 2010 to 2011, since then. And the sort of the ground principle were that when I was doing an interval, I should always feel that I had one more repetition in me. And if he told me to, that I had to do it even like 10 seconds quicker, I should have that in me. So that was like how we were pacing it back then. But he was still a believer in a lot of hours. So then it was like quite important that I did the easy training, easy enough. And then when Ulov came on board, then we tried to lift up the training press on the easy training as well. And also be a little bit more precise on the threshold training that we were sort of pushing it, like being a little bit more precise on it. But I think that's tricky to do with athletes who is too young of an age. Like I think it's important to do it step by step. But you actually grew up with no scores and just trying all sorts of things. We like when we're swimming, we do have times. Like you know if you're doing a PB or not. And I think especially from the swimming background, it's not too important. With winning, it's more like you get high five in the thumbs up if you're doing a PB. And that's what every swimmer sort of cares about. Like they're all on progression towards the top. Of course you want to beat the guy in your club at the same age. But if both of you are doing a PB, it's both a winning. But of course when you're playing football or soccer, you do know if you're winning or not. But it's just no table scores for the end of the season. You're just having fun playing the matches. And I do think they try to make sure that the teams are not getting like tapered. So like everyone gets like a chance to play. It's so fascinating because like I look at it now, right? I have two kids and like all the parents that are obsessed with like these childhood progies and coming out and winning tournaments when they're like 10. And it's so healthy because in the beginning I had Brad Stolberg on the podcast. And we were talking about how important it is to just keep going, keep that development. Because what we both have in common, if I can say so, like we're both kind of like failed swimmers. Like I learned to swim and I got down to maybe a minute for a hundred backstroke. But it was never anything to really be a swimmer. And we both kind of found this home in triathlon. And you know, someone else pointed us towards you know, try this thing. Or you think it would be like nowhere if swimming just had worked out. If it would have just been like a little bit better or swimmer, we would have just like never found our home. Yeah, probably maybe it was like a good thing. You know, like because yeah, like if you were like a few seconds quicker, maybe it would have like a gasway towards like swimming and potentially having sort of a mediocre career rather than really finding sports for you. Yeah. And having that patience and investing the years. Because I mean, the same thing you had a long progression. I think it was like five years from your junior success to your first World Cup. And yeah, it's a long time to go without having a real win. Right. And you're always just trusting the process. Or did you just perform? What was your kind of ceiling of moving on? I would say I was sort of having like a pathway. Like the progression was, I felt was in the right direction. Like I was just behind the podium like in 2012. at the Junior World Championship and then I've always been early at racing at the World Series. So if I compare myself to all the guys in a 1994 generation, I felt that was sort of on pair. I was racing against Julian Cornix, Leo and well like Jake Bert was, so I was sort of comparing myself a little bit to that generation. And I would say it was amongst that earlier generation to perform. Of course I was later to win a World Series then as the Brown Way. I think that was probably 21 or 22. But I was like amongst the younger generation to qualify for Leo in 2016. It was like myself, Gordon Benson and Tyler Wistler-Jerk. The father was having sort of the progression. And then the following year I was getting, the same season I had some podiums in the World Series and the following year I had the multiple podiums. But I felt that was like getting close to the front. That was just missing that win for, I felt that was chasing that win for 2016 first podium, 2017 just podium, 18 just podiums. And then in 2019 and the grand final. It took a while before I was able to grab that tape. That was more something that was driving towards. And then there is some season where I think in 2017 I had multiple podiums and then signed the Los sponsors for 2018 and 2019 and then like the 2019 season was just starting off crap. I was 32nd in Nabila in 2019, 32nd in Leeds as well, I crashed out in Hamburg, crashed out in the test event in Tokyo. And at that point I felt that I was having a lot of sponsors who was backing me and I was certainly just underperforming and that was tougher to feel that pressure. Because I had people believing in what I could have done. And yeah, I felt that sort of out of control. I mean you said publicly plenty times that the Olympic gold was your goal, which is a world of internal pressure. But then someone's giving you five euros 50 and a bike exaggerated of course. But you've got your first deals. How do you deal with the external pressure? I mean other than well because you obviously you had a tough start. But is it something where you can then channel that pressure and really directed towards making you forward or does it make you anxious? It's more like you feel you have a deal that's you're not disturbed. You know, like you have people believing in you and then you're sort of letting them down even though they were quite supportive in that time. Like they're like Rebel, we're like asking us is there anything we can do extra to make you feel like you can perform better? Like there was always like sponsors who was backing, but deep deep inside like I knew that doing a 30 second place and breaking two bike frame already mid-season like that that wasn't really what I like I knew that they were asking for more, you know, like deep inside. So it's more like yeah, I wanted to perform better. And that was also maybe why the win in the Grand Final in 2019 was tasting so sweet because I had such a terrible season all the way until that point. I felt that the shape was getting better but I was just failing in the races. I was crashing out twice with good shape and then to be able to win the biggest World Series race of that season, over Olympic distance, when one year out of what was supposed to be the Olympics was a big biggest confident booster. Do you have any idea what made you be able to flick that switch because when you have like momentum is something that flows, right? And when things are going well, all of a sudden everything's going well, but when it rains it pours, you know, and you turn that around for arguably the race where the pressure is the biggest and the stakes are the highest. And I see it like with a lot of people, you know, they remain, choose their morning world champions forever because they can perform the craziest number in their local crit. But what do you think it was for you that changed that step from just outside the podium, just on the podium to winning the biggest race, pre-Olympics? I think it was a little bit, they were talked about earlier, like that losing those races were hurting so much more. There was so much worse than winning it. And at that point as well, like I went from having been declared sort of the candidate from nowhere to go towards the Olympics and being the guy to win the gold. To suddenly to be dropped in training by Gustav on the run sessions in Thailand, so it was almost like a mental switch to, oh, this is, I'm going to slip like one year out of the games and then being beat by two teammates as well, like in the games and sort of, yeah, in my head I was the guy who was supposed to win Olympic games in 2020. So I think being sort of challenged as well, like both inside my team having two strong teammates coming through, performing better in training, putting more pressure on me in the daily work as well as just getting that hunger from the four races I did. And also, yeah, feeling like I am better than what I'm showcasing at that moment. I mean, that was, yeah, certainly something where I think the culture that you guys built was unique. I always say when I was looking at the Norwegian method and what you guys had was always, for me, it was always the two Cs. It was carbs and culture that you guys really introduced the sport and turned it to something new. Next I'd like to go to realizing that you've won pretty much everything the sport has to offer. So let me be gold. There's I man 70.3. I mean, world record, we can even include the sub seven, even though to me that's not quite the same, same league as the other races, but that list is actually almost finished. And when people call you the greatest of all time, does that feel like recognition or expectation? I think both, like it's a little bit the gold terms that being coming around a little bit easy like these days, probably. If someone wins a race, they suddenly get the gold title straight away. Well, I do agree. I do want to win Hawaii, like that's something that's missing. And the sport comes from the big island of Hawaii and it's with all the history there. That's what's driving me more than anything else. I'm also aware that it's like we can't, I cannot compete against different generations. Like the same way you couldn't compete against Mark Allen. Like he's having his face of the sport and he's been bringing it up to that level where it was back in all school days. And the same like you were bringing up the level in the first guy to go from short course over to full distance with a great success and also maybe the first one to, I would say almost go outside of triathlon in terms of the interest you have created. And I feel I'm sort of the next generation of that. And yeah, I do think I have more to give, but it's more important to enjoy the journey, I would say, and have fun for as long as possible. It's not just about collecting titles just for a title sake of it. It's also important to enjoy the life balance or the training, raising balance. Yeah, I mean, it's obviously super subjective, right? And I think you're making the strongest case anyone has made in a very, very long time. In decades, in fact. But funny enough, I read somewhere that when you started off, Alistair Brownlee was one of your sporting heroes and he was obviously my greatest rival. What did you see in him that I was probably too busy realizing when I was competing with him? What is it that gets you about him? I think it was aggressiveness. Like the way he was vocal and right as he was dictating what everyone was supposed to do. And when he was walking into a race, he was controlling the room. And I think with it, like that's all-fifling in the race that I was seeing. Yeah, just that pure aggressiveness. Maybe not the best for long distance in terms of pacing, but for short course, the pure class of just attacking from the gun was something I really think he was cool to watch. And I was first aware of the World Series back in 2010-2011. And that was the time when he and Johnny and Javier Gomez was really doing it. dominating sports. And I was more all-in towards the Olympics at that time, so I didn't really care about. Our man always winning Kona or that thing was just a world series and I was a diehard world series fan. If you're watching one of the races from that time, I guess the only screen time that or the only thing that we got from screen time was Alistair and Joni and Javier. And of course, they were the ones that were in the front, the whole race from the gun. And also, you can see in the facial expression, like Javier looks so controlled. Joni, sort of in the middle and then on the other side, you can really see that. Yeah, he would rather die than losing that race and it was maybe something I felt like was similar to the way I was racing. I would rather die than losing in that race. And that guy had us in such control in that time and experiencing it live. Now we look back and we're forming a friendship and we can sort of see that we were just too similar in many ways, but especially in that time, that's why in this whole discussion, like you say, the term goat gets thrown around everywhere and anywhere. But Alistair to me definitely has a claim to that title. I know he never had the long term success or long distance success, I should say, but in a Olympic distance, it was quite something to witness because the facial expression and the aura and that anger that he brought to it was definitely quite something. Yeah, for sure. And yeah, I do think maybe he wasn't the most like he was maybe he went into the room and the races and he had only sort of his group to care about. Like he was caring about Joni and a few other Brits, maybe Richard, Richard Baga and then he was sort of controlling the race to his favor. He was controlling. He was in favor of anything that would up his chances to win the race. If that wasn't then he was an interested. It brings me to 20, was it 20, 22 when I had a really bad bike crash. I was in hospital and it was kind of touch and go whether my leg would come back together. And you were like one of the reasons why I was lying there and I was like, dude, I've got to come back. We've got to come. I need to, if I do anything with my life, I want to race this man and I want to beat him one more time. What is it that gets you out the door? Is it chasing or being chased? Chasing. Like I do agree. Like I think you met Ulov at the airport in Barcelona before the Olympic Games in, before the Olympic Games in 2021. So we went up to the Altsu camp and then you were like chatting with him and you told him something like Christian might be a mentally a terminator. No, physically a terminator, but he's mentally soft as butter. Yes. It's tough like that. He's just fucking hell. No. I'm fucking going to prove that I wrong. Oh, man. It's gold. I love it. Tell me more. And yeah, like of course I was also listening to the Greg Bennett podcast straight before the Games when you had all the previous Olympic champions on it. And yeah, like I feel it's people sort of doubting you then you can win. That sort of is more motivation that people are just saying, yes, of course you can do it. So I'm actually a little bit, another quote. I think it was from Vincent Lewis YouTube series with super super league was called Inventable. He started off the 2021 video with saying something like in France, we have a saying that dogs that bite. No, dogs that bark don't bite. Let's see who barks the modes. And I do felt it was referring to me at that time. So I felt that both the guy who was like the two time world champion doing into the games as well as you was one and the four sort of without me and sort of just saying that was a vocal without really having any titles on my shoulders. That okay. I'm fucking gonna turn this around. I love it because I always say like you do it for 98% of the right reasons in life and 2% is for the assholes out there. You know the people that say you can't do it. What do you think it is that you know really fires you up because there's something special that you can take that negative energy and turn it into something. I'm not sure like I feel sometimes difficult to say like what's the reason why because even like in the days we think okay like why do I do it like is it that fun to go out and train six seven eight hours a day. But I'm still like and catch myself being on training camps with the boys and then I was done there hour eight and just think okay. This is I'm loving it you know like I'm in the zone I'm feeling that the body is closed to be punked but I know that I'm having a rest anymore. I've been pushing the guys to the limits for yet the whole day now and I think it's like that's playfulness on the day that still sort of get me out there. So I can still enjoy the weekly days as well as much as the race days. So like we had knowledge back set as an example coming joining us for camp in Lazolota who was sort of coming in quite cocky and reckoning he would drop us quite easily on the bike. Just the feeling to be able to drop him twice within a week on intervals. It's sort of like it's a small victory but it's a good one like it tastes good. The little feelings it tastes a lot better than being dropped that's for sure. It's it's really interesting because going into Milwaukee the 2024 season I sort of tried something similar again because I knew physically on paper I mean you're in the prime of your shape and now was you know stuffering to come back and it really I always did wonder whether I got in your head a little bit and whether it actually landed or if I just got lucky on the day. I wouldn't say lucky on the day. I was more so in 2023 we both raised in Ibiza a few months before. I was 23 sorry my bad yeah and I think it was more like I was maybe cocky going into the race like I had a great swim. It was getting a gap early on the bike and sort of wanted to put pressure and to be honest I thought that you were struggling so I was I thought you were sort of out of the race and I was looking more at mamius and so I was more on the aggressive side until the 20k and then I felt cooked. So I would like to think that it was not the last and mental battle it was more like the physical one but that is again one of the races that I've heard the most of losing because also when I crossed the finish line I could see like your joy you know you I feel you were celebrating even more like louder when we came in you know just to to do frozen salt on my on my source so and this was the difference that for me I knew this was my last shot like for me I actually realized this is my one and only ever shot because mentally I was done like my career and I was happy and I have my family and life is good it's just I could really put myself in the dark place because you're not wrong I was dying I was very much dying and seeing you at the front and I was like oh man why couldn't you just shut up because I was like I poked the bear and now it's coming and now he's angry and it wasn't it genuinely because I wasn't aware I saw the I saw the images afterwards and it was the same time that my best friend came across the kind of the finish area and I think we both kind of knew this might well be the last time that we get to celebrate like this so it was yeah it it I don't think it was louder and I didn't want to throw salt but it was a good celebration but in the same time you felt like with your last chance to beat me I also felt it was my sort of last chance to beat you like we only had I think we were only race twice and I was in Ibiza where Max Neumannsley came out and took the win and then he threw salt he threw salt he called your whole method and he was angry at the finish line the blue sheet and the waged inside the certificate method but yeah it cost him like a stress fracture to take that win I guess so haven't seen the suits no so yeah like I did think that okay this is probably the last best we will have and that's also why it was yeah like you can't redo a race like the winner takes it all on the race day I think you've done okay I think you've done you've done all right and in the end you know what's it's one one race but one memory and it gets me to the idea of you recently having changed coaches actually changing to being self-coached. So you and Olaf kind of build something over years that somebody that nobody had ever seen, especially in triathlon, you split it up, now you're writing your own plans, making your own calls, but you mentioned earlier you still have them as a soundboard, but what does it feel like kind of being self-coached? I've never been self-coached. Yeah, so the, so I'll say in the relationship I've had with the coaches since 2010 have always been a little bit like, not like physical, with a physical distance. So when I already came on board for the first 10 years, he was giving me training programs and I had to sort of do it like, or like emails. So he was never like on deck watching me. So a lot of the philosophy were that the smaller that is where the more decisions they could do in a training in order to get to the top. So it's always been like an educational relationship when they've sort of been explaining what we're doing in Y and the end goal has sort of been that we could sort of take the decisions ourselves. And I do feel that yeah, like off between 2024 that we maybe didn't use the learnings we had done over the last 15 years in order to like, we always wanted to re-advent the wheel rather than using the knowledge we had from the past. And together with Gustav and Casper we wanted to do a little bit more what has been working in the past. And it was, I was a, not scary, but like it's a big step to take out from those safe environments. And for the first year, I really felt like I wanted to do a little bit of contrast to what was done in 24. And luckily we had a good start off the C's and it was like easy to have this positive momentum in the group. And so I didn't talk too much with what I would like to do in the first six months about the training because I just wanted to do it my way. And then after the 2025 C's and it's been more like natural to sort of have a guide to discuss with like just to get like a neutral opinion on the on the program what he reckon we should focus on. And I think it's healthy to get some skeptical ice on what you're doing. So I sort of, it's where I have to sort of argue or defend why I'm doing what I think I'm doing. And then maybe I'm just pulling what I still wanted to do. But then I can also look back and see, yeah, maybe it was right or maybe it worked. Because I think about it and I just mean the cognitive load of being there and having to make the decisions. And also in the middle of the session, you're feeling tired after I don't know 10, 12, 15, by 1k, however many it is. And you're like, okay, should I do three more? Should I not? You know, having that objective person that takes away the fatigue and allows you to focus on your training only. Do you think it's something that, you know, for now is, have you noticed that? It takes the energy. No, I wouldn't say that. Like because I've never had a coach who said like enough is enough. I've always been the guy who had to say, okay, I'm too tired. I have to call it a day. So both the other and all have been on the more like more is more. So I don't fit. So yeah, yeah. So I would say the first learning I had was back in the end of 2020, 2011, since when I was like a junior and I was getting to point where I was a little bit burned out from the program from Aril, but it would just, yeah, a lot of volume, a lot of threshold and more than I was celebrating. And then we had to sort of sort of have a few weeks of almost like restarting, just let the body rest. And from that point, I was very focused on making sure that my body is absorbing the training. So yes, I agree that we needed to train more. We needed to train a little threshold and like more hours than the rest, but I still need to make sure that I'm absorbing the training. If I'm just feeling like every, for every interval session I'm doing, I'm just getting more and more tired and I'm not feeling I'm responding it, then I'm sort of doing it for nothing. So I think that was maybe one of the good learnings I had from my earlier career. It's crazy because from the outside it's kind of like this whole system that's built around data and removing subjectivity, but there is still a lot of human in there because I was actually curious, did you ever feel like a science experiment? I mean, you guys were collecting so much data. Yeah, sometimes I feel like we've been sort of a lab rat, but I feel like I feel that's giving us, when we're using it in a playful way in order to figure out more areas to potentially get like a competitive advantage, especially for the first going into Tokyo maybe even for 2022. I felt that we used it in a good way to be really well prepared. Well, then maybe going into Paris, it was maybe too much without really using the numbers in the right way. So then I felt sometimes like I went to a race, you know, like when you're mentally preparing for race and then you want to have a down week after a week, but then you can't have a down week because you have a test block, seven days after the race and have to sort of be ready again. I felt that was sort of taking away the mental break or downturns. Didn't you say somewhere in an interview that for Paris, you thought you were something like four kilos overweight? Yes, but that was maybe something I realized as well like after the race or like doing into the race that we've been focusing too much on capacity and just building the engine and I feel doing those sessions, I'm just sort of loading to get ready for a big session rather than listening up the intensity, then I feel it's easy to also gain weight somehow. So I guess I was close to like 80, 81 kilos in Paris, poor race where I needed to win it on the run rather than close to 77 or 76. So maybe one of the good things we have learned in the past is that kilos is not everything but it's not nothing either. It's a bit important to be light enough, like to carry around like an extra bottle like this on the run course is not the ideal. Yeah, I mean four kilos for sure feels better to run without if you have the same energy and the same engine and the same everything else at your disposal. Christian, I don't want to take too much of your time. I have one more question and then a quick rapid fire because my inbox has never flooded so much from people wanting to know things and wanting to know questions. And we touched about on it earlier but probably more from an emotional level, you've built your whole career around having something to chase. It was started off being the Olympics. Then there's the Iron Man record, the World Record, the pro series Hawaii. Looking at the list now, what is actually left that really genuinely has a mid long term goal for you that gets you excited in your gut. The first one is we touched on it a bit earlier, Hawaii, the big one in October. And if I'm able to do that one right, there is a few guys who have done three titles and I will only have two. So then I guess I want to do it again, due to the third time but there again, I think it's more important to focus on the first win in Hawaii right on the second win, you know, like you do one at the time. So that's really what's getting me up and out of the bed in the mornings and getting me motivated. If you couldn't do triathlon, what would you do? It's like if we should take away like swim back and run, I think it will, like I need to definitely move my body around. I did actually buy some mountain skis this winter, also watching some some terrestrial TV programs where like walking up with the skis and down again. I'm a little bit like you're doing in a door, but I haven't found time this winter to use it. So I spent like 3000 euros to buy this skis without actually being out on the skis. So that's definitely something I would like to do more of. Well, I've been thinking about being like, we've been nice to go into like coaching like the next generation and see if I can sort of do a little bit what we did with the national team like 15 years ago, building up a squad and then going in towards like a major race like the Olympics. But that in one way feels like a great challenge, but it also feels like I will just replicate what I've done in my previous life from a different angle. So maybe it will be nice to do something completely different. Triathlete threw it through. I love it. Honestly, you can't fault that. It's just I've really met somebody who's so passionate and so committed to the craft and honestly I wish you genuinely wish you all the best of luck reaching all these goals. Christian traditionally we close off the question when is the last time you went mental? I will almost say New Zealand. Like that race out there. Yeah that was a tough mental battle on the run. You know like I had so many people out there on the course sharing on me and I was just an extremely negative mental status. You know like you know that the race is disappearing up front and yeah that was a yeah a rough one. Just let me die in pieces what I always used to tell people when you're having a shoot day. Awesome Christian thank you so much for your time. I don't have you got two minutes for some quick fires or you know I have two minutes. All right cool all right these are questions that just came in like literally I don't know a couple of thousand questions I came in. People obviously want to know. Quick fire number one what hurts more getting dropped getting beaten or under performing on your own numbers. Getting dropped. Do triathletes over complicate everything? Yes. What's more dangerous in triathlon? Ego or insecurity? Ego. I agree. Insecurity actually helps. Our great triathletes made more by pain tolerance or by patients. I think by patient. Like the pain tolerance I would say is fairly sanitary. You can't push through a race by tolerating more pain. Like of course it's tough for everyone but it's preparation more than anything else. Okay. What part of triathlon do people in the community still underestimate the most? Recovery fueling or mindset? Fuelling straight after the sessions. And what's the biggest myth in triathlon right now? This one in myth. I don't know if there is any myth. 101 VO2 max. Sorry I had to. I actually was actually scoring a little bit higher a few weeks later. But the thing is like again we're not competing in the lab. So like I didn't win anything by having a high victim. It was more a very un-efficient or like the gross efficiency was poorly. Something was down at like 18% efficiency while I'm normally like 21% so it's more about figuring out why the numbers were like they were and understanding the why I'm typically having those numbers after winter break. I mean it's fascinating and then I have one more quick one myself because you you wear a garment watch. What's the VO2 max saying? What's your VO2 max on your garment? Let's see if I can find it. I'm pretty sure it's not good. I'm not sure where I even can see it. What is called? That's a good question. I think you just scroll down. I think I've seen it. It's closer to like 75 than 85 actually. So it's definitely underestimating or in which lab is overestimating. That depends who you trust. Yeah I think either way it's obvious that you're a beast, a beast of an athlete and an all-around awesome dude really appreciate all that you do for the triathlon sport because I think as a fan it's a great time to be there and all the very best of luck stay healthy and yeah I would like to say don't do another 28 races leading to corner but maybe Christian if there is any ever anyone it's probably you. Thanks mate. I think I will listen to you advice. Thank you for having me.