The Non-Linear Career: How to Build Credibility, Wealth, and a Life You Love, with Kira Mackenzie Jackson

The following podcast is a deer media production. Welcome to Note To Self. I'm your host, Peyton Sarton. Note To Self is all about getting to know yourself and creating the life you truly want, but doing so realistically. Because in a world where we all want better for ourselves, we have to give ourselves and others some grace along the way. Tune in every week for solo episodes like How to Be Hotter and Less Depressed, or simple ways to elevate your everyday. You will hear conversations with guests who dive into topics ranging from health to business to relationships and more. Note To Self is here to remind you that while life is very much serious at times it's also supposed to be fun. I don't have much to hide and you can expect me to over share it all in my signature monotone straightforward way. I hope you love it. Now let's get into today's episode. Hello everyone and welcome back to another episode of Note To Self. I'm your host Peyton and I am sitting here with Kira McKenzie Jackson. I met you as Kira McKenzie years ago. Yes. Kira McKenzie Jackson, though. We're going with that. We're going with that as long. That works. Well, I'm Peyton Sarton Ross now. Well, there we go. It's I kind of like moving. Yeah, I like kind of going by, I guess, my initial name first, you know, and keeping that in there. Yeah, like we did adopt Ross and you changed your name. I did. I changed my name. That's a controversial topic to talk about sometimes. Especially when you like build a career as one thing, I guess. Okay, I have a hack for that. So I built my career as Kira McKenzie, which is actually my metal name. Yes. Yes. And I was like so happy to drop my last name, but I did it intentionally because I knew one day I would get any last name. Okay, that's a hot tip for everybody. This is at the tender age of 20. I knew that. Which is why I'm saying you were like planning this out already. This transition. I had not thought about it at all, but I was also very happy to like not have my last name be a name like Sarton, but it spelled like Sartane. Yes. Ross. Easiest thing ever. So easy. Jason. One is spelled easy. Easy. My husband's name is Joe Ross. That's really good. Like that is mine's patent certain, but it looks like Sartane, but it's like I'm spelling in a million ways. Everyone's adding the E in them. I'm like, no, no. That would be my life would be as a person with anxiety. So much easier. Yeah. No, I used to like spell my last name. It's like T. S and Tom. I are S and Sam. It's a towel. I'm like, what was I doing? You know, I want to know how many minutes of my life. Perhaps hours I have spent doing just that same thing. We've wasted so much time. We've wasted. No, we're on to find out. We're better. Better things are better. Well, Kira is a brand strategist, angel investor and a creator. She's currently a board advisor at RX 3 Growth Partners, the author of Material Interest on Substack, which I do want to talk to about Substack at some point in this conversation and a contributing editor for Marie Claire and Inc. And she's going to be announcing a new position as CMO of a beauty brand. She tells me I will love. You will. Yes, probably on your face. Really? I want to ask you. I'm going to guess later. Off camera. Okay. But I wanted to talk to Kira today because I met you when you were with Balar A. Were you with Balar A? Oh my gosh. Yes. We met when I was still in PR. Yes. And I wanted to talk to you kind of about having a non-linear career because I met you at that time. And I feel like I just begged you as a PR person, right? That's what you do. And I feel like since then, and before then, now that I've like I read up on you and I know your background, you kind of have this very non-linear career. And I think that that's kind of the new wave. You know, I feel this way in my own career as doing this whole influencer thing and then pivoting going back to school. And it doesn't really make sense, but it doesn't need to make sense. necessarily. And I feel like you can kind of grow your career dimensionally instead of in a one-year way. And I just want you to share with the audience kind of your backstory and explain how you got to where you are today. Well, I want to talk about your school experience because that fascinates me. I've always wanted to go back to school. I've just never had the time to do it. So I want to pick your brain on that. Yeah. I actually, I think it's less so even like the new wave. I feel like this is the way that you become lethal. Like this is your, this is the way that you develop superpowers. And if you specialize not to say it's it's negative. I mean, we come from a generation prior where our parents were in one role and they sat in that role for 30-someone year. My mom has been a pilot for United for 36 years or something. That is actually my dad's a pilot. Oh my gosh. He was a fighter pilot first and now he flies to Southwest. Okay. She flies for United yeah. That is. But I think like a woman pilot is so much cooler because it's always crusty man. It's always just like and again, shout out to my dad just one of the crusty man up there. They know what they're doing. They kill it. He used to be a badass but the having a female pilot does make me trust the situation a little bit more. I love that. I love to hear that. I mean like she is truly the best pilot but also I think watching her love her career was just table stakes. That was what I wanted for my life. And for her, loving her career meant sitting in that position and growing within that role and organization. For me, loving my career meant that I had to acquire new skills and do different things because I felt especially when you come from something like so specific as PR. PR is the crux and sort of backbone of storytelling. I think I love that I came from PR. But it is extremely narrow in terms of the consumer experience. It's one aspect of like how a consumer interacts with and touches a brand. And I think what I've always been fascinated by is how consumers interact with brands, how they choose which brands to purchase and that like purchasing decision, how it relates back to anthropologically, what that says about them as an individual. And I think because that was my interest versus just the storytelling of PR. It felt fairly quickly that I needed to expand my repertoire and better understand how PR fit within the larger funnel and how it impacted like brand longevity. So that was why I pivoted out. But it was actually, it wasn't intentional at the time. I was very, very young when I was PR in PR. And it took me selling that company. I was the first employee at that company we sold to a private equity firm ultimately. And that was I think what really that process opened my eyes to what was possible. Yes. Okay. So where have you gone from there? Let's say you just left you'll have just sold this PR firm. And you've gotten this new like kind of lease on life and understanding of perhaps I would assume like wealth building and things like that in the way companies are to be involved in companies at that level. What did you do next? So step number one was during that process, I got a feel for what was missing in the private equity world. And very similar we were talking about Florida. We were talking about, you know, treasury pilots. Yeah. There is a very typical private equity man usually. And the way that they evaluate businesses was through an extremely quantitative lens. And there's nothing wrong with that. It is entirely critical for the process. But what was missing was this qualitative component, this understanding of the consumer and how the consumer was engaging with companies and media and all of the things. And investors were not using that lens when they were applying it to looking at brands. So I saw a gap in the private equity landscape. I ended up joining a growth equity firm. It's Aaron Rogers growth equity firm. That's the three correct. Yeah. RX 3 where I still said it said as an advisor. And and through that we were investing in consumer brands. So like anything from TheraBody to Hydro, Twergain, Manscaped Hens, hers, all those sorts of companies. Like very wellness focus, which is where I started my career in PR, which is consumer wellness and like fashion lifestyle. So you built that credibility there. And then how did you join RX 3? What was that process like? Did they recruit you? Did you apply? Like what how does that work? I love this question. I love that we're getting nitty gritty because I never talk about this. It's all about who you know at the end of the day and what they know about you. It's the truth. I mean, if I had taken people do ask me how to get into private equity. And my background is extremely nonlinear and it's non-traditional. And it is extremely difficult to break into the private market, especially at the growth and venture stages. So I think because my background was in brand building and I was one of those 10 people that were involved in the sale to Court Square, which was the firm that bought us. I had an understanding of the process that maybe most people in my shoes wouldn't have otherwise had. Yes. And because of that, I was able to, I was sitting at dinner with a mutual friend and he advised me to apply for this role. It was a value-add role at the firm and I pitched it as something larger and went through the whole interview process as it stood after his introduction and got the job. I like to think of my own merit, but I never would have gotten my foot in that door, even considered it frankly, if it hadn't been for that strategic introduction. Yeah, I have a friend. My best friend Kristen is a stylist and you met Kristen years and years ago. She came on the podcast a couple weeks ago because we never really talk about her job. She's like very mysterious. I've heard it. It is less than this episode. Yeah, she's, and the whole crux of it was really, I had to like drill a sentence to her because she doesn't like to listen, but every time she does listen to her friends who like try to like give her an opportunity, not because it's giving her an opportunity to cheat. It's giving her an opportunity because she's so good and everyone wants to showcase her ability. So it is that piece where she always is going to kill it and like is so like talented, but I'm like you lean on your network so much and she's realizing this in the episode by the way. After we talked, she was like, I guess I didn't realize I'm like, yeah, just all your friends are like, "Please take this opportunity." - Yeah. - But it really is, every time I ask someone that question, it's kind of a similar answer, regardless of the industry. You know what I mean? - I also, I think as women, and just in general, I mean, I haven't had like a male experience, but I think especially as women, you're naturally inclined to like air on the side of being humble and not to like recognize your value and what you bring to the table and your expertise. But when somebody else is sitting across from you and saying, "You are valuable, and this is your expertise." - Yes. - It kind of like breaks you out of that cycle of thinking like so small-minded about yourself. - Absolutely, especially when it's your friend who's like me, who's not a bullshitter, I'm like, "Christian?" - She's very lucky. - Get through your shit. - Together and go do this job. She's like, "I don't know, like, do they really want me?" I'm like, "I'm not going to stroke your ego too much. I'll do it a little bit." - Yeah. - But like, I'm not going to do it too much. But I feel like that's something that the girls always want to know is that entry point. And it sadly, also I guess in an optimistic way, a lot of it is who you know for those introductions at least. And then you still have to be good. - Of course, you have to be amazing. And that's how you like stay in roles. - Yes. - So when I did that, that was I did the investor value add thing for quite a while. And then I ended up pivoting into chief brand officer role at Sattactive. And that was also because Lindsay, who was a friend, messaged me and she sent me a resume. And she said, "I'm looking for this sort of a CBO role. "Who do you have in mind?" And I was rocking my brain. I was like, "Oh, I could send it to so and so or so "and so would be really good." And then I realized I was getting a little bit jealous. I was like, "Oh, I kind of, I want to do that." And also I would do a really good job. And so I ended up, I texted her and I said, "Hey, I have a crazy idea." And immediately she was like, "If you're a crazy idea, "is that you're coming to be a chief brand officer, "then you're hired." And that was how I went. And she was like, "I sent it up that way actually." - Yeah, so you have to be amazing. You have to have the repertoire. You have to have the resume. You have to be able to crush it and do the job. But-- - Well, especially for that brand, being so brand focused, like the whole, the whole crux is their branding. - Yeah, it is all community, it is all creative. It's like down to the nitty gritty of how we use punctuation. - Yes, very serious role. I actually have something to talk to you about after this too, because I have a company that I advise for looking for a CBO role if you know someone. 'Cause we're really happy to be looking for a while and we just don't know who the right person is. - It's a hard role, yeah. - It's a really hard role. I also think that CBO, CMO, is sort of like, those two roles ideally in my view should live under the same human. And because of that, it's become such a huge role where you have to understand so much more than just branding creative copy. You have to understand the marketing funnel. You have to understand margins and clogs. And you have to be able to optimize for LTV. And most people who are going into that role come from like a very creative director's type background. So yes, I, I, I, yeah, sorry. - Well, especially on your early stage. - Yeah, yeah. - You know what I mean? - Like, like, preceded rounds and all that stuff. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) - Today's episode is sponsored by Tumble. I have a thing with Rugs. I think we all do. Obviously they can be ultra complicated in a lot of ways and ultra overpriced. 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After you purchase, they will ask where you heard about them. Please support our show and tell them our show, sent you. Have you ever looked at a successful woman and thought, "Wow, she's so lucky." Well, spoiler alert, luck doesn't just happen. We have the power to create it. I'm your host, Less, and she's so lucky is the podcast where we pull back the curtain on what it really takes to create your own luck. Every week, I sit down with badass women, entrepreneurs, creatives, wellness experts who have built their success on their own terms. We talk wins, failures, and the lessons they actually learned along the way. No fluff, no BS, just real stories to inspire you to take up space and go after what's yours. So if you're ready to tap into your own magic, join me for she's so lucky. New episodes drop every week. [MUSIC] You kind of answered my next question about building credibility from your unique point of view. Because I've also heard you talk a lot about being a woman in a lot of these rooms and you hear men all the time, especially when we're talking about marketing to women, go home and say, "I'm going to go home to my wife and ask her," and you're sitting there like, "I can actually tell everyone this POV. It's a right now unique POV, I guess, to have when you're sitting in these rooms with men who are investing." Because again, it's usually mostly men. Obviously, we're changing that now. But how do you kind of, I guess, for the women out there who have a similar desire to build this type of career and perhaps already have a resume that kind of zig-zags? How can they position that as an asset versus like, a liability? Well, it's so interesting. It's like, this is why I love seeing more creators invest in brands. Because that is the brand saying, "I recognize that you carry value and you will help me sell my product and let me give you some skin in the game versus just like, paying you for one-off content." That is the whole premise behind pitching your non-linear, your assets and superhuman abilities that live outside of the general roster of what that role might entail. The reason why you are being invited into those rooms is because you have a perspective that is not shared by the people already in the room. And finally, I think that those in the room are starting to understand that they need those things. Yes. I don't think they fully understand yet the complete value. And I do see a lot of people under selling themselves because of that. And I think that's the other conversation where it's less so about how you position your non-linear as an asset. I think that in and of itself is just table stakes. Take what you've learned before and apply it to the new role and explain how you're applying it to the new role. But it's also more about once you're in that role or once you're negotiating that role, how do you explain the complete value of it, which is the challenge I would say nowadays? Yeah. Applying those past skills and stuff like that, I would say. Yeah. I think I think I can always find a way to just argue that point a little bit. But I do think in the past it's seen as if you have a resume. You've done a little bit of this, a little bit of this. You might look flighty. Yeah. Versus credible. But again, I'm more of the person that likes to just follow my interests. So I feel like that's the kind of person that I am. And I do think that's being more valued in these types of settings for sure. But you do have to bring that to the right person. Yeah. There are still people who do not understand that and you have to understand that that is not a reflection on you. It's a reflection on their small mind of thinking. Yes. So all this to say, if you're trying to like sell yourself and your unique perspective to somebody and they're just not getting it, it just might not be the right time and the right opportunity. Yeah. Exactly. It's like dating in a baby day. If he's not into you, don't be into him. For sure. Yeah. And I want to talk to and speak on. We're going to get to a little bit of angel investing here in a second. We'll segue into that a little bit. But I think the biggest question of the biggest topic request that I have alongside angel investing is really this idea of working and building wealth versus working for an hourly pay, let's say, or your salary. Which is great. Everyone's lucky to have a salary. When you've got a salary, we want money coming in. But I think that there is this kind of secret-- or mostly the people in this mysterious world-- of switching over to a wealth building mindset when it comes to your job and what you're really investing your time in. And I guess I would describe this in a way as kind of a portfolio career. Like you're really trying to and it does speak to kind of having different roles and different interests and following those things. But can you explain a little bit more about that transition from working for an hourly pay to working more on the, I guess, investing side and the building well side for yourself? Oh my gosh, 100%. I mean, I'm starting to think about my career as a portfolio in like the skills I acquire, but also as a portfolio in my investment strategy. Yeah. So in addition to having, I'm currently in a full time role that is working on a stealth brand that's launching next year, also in the beauty space. And in addition to that, I'm consulting on the side. And I like doing that because it keeps me fresh, it keeps me sharp. Yeah. But it also brings an opportunities for additional cash flow and additional equity opportunity. So there are a couple of brands that I advise that I charge them a monthly retainer or I charge them a project fee. And then there are a couple of brands I advise that I believe in so wholeheartedly that I take a much smaller fee and I take equity instead. And as I'm negotiating my contracts for future opportunities, equity is always the crux of the conversation. I do care about salary. I have two kids like it is important that my life is paid for and then I feel comfortable in my day to day. But I would much rather have a lower salary today and more equity in a company that I believe in putting my blood sweat and tears into and be able to realize that in three to five years. Yes. Understandable. How do you get into that position when you're when you are again, let's say you're leaving the PR world, you're kind of transitioning over because you've again seen this new side of things where you're like people are really building wealth and making money, you know, enough to live day to day as well. What did that transition look like? What kind of questions are you asking? What are you negotiating when you're heading into a new position? Okay. So first things first, you want to start with how many points obviously are you negotiating? That's important. Are you, you know, I like to be somewhere between the one to five percent range. It depends on obviously the scale and size of the business. By typically brands will put aside an employee sort of allocation. Esau is sometimes how it's referred. It might be like five percent. I like to take like a percentage of that, but I understand that that is like the wider pool that I'm pulling from. So how many points do you want? How many points do you want? How many points do I have to write what a point is? Oh, yes, a percentage. Okay. A percentage point. How much percentage points of the business do you have many percentage points of the business? Do you want? Okay. Exactly. And then if someone doesn't know that, what would they what do they say? Just you just kind of jump in and figure it out as you go. Well, I mean, I would think about okay, so reverse engineer it by looking at the category, right? So if you're entering a the tech category, this is not where my expertise is, but I'm going to just like riff it for a second. Like if you enter an AI company, the expectation is that that AI company is going to scale pretty significantly, pretty quickly and have some sort of an exit. So your goal should be getting as much as you can possibly get with a very short investing cliff. So like you want to be able to get your interest vested over a shorter period of time versus long. Yeah. So for instance, when I'm negotiating my contract, like I care a little bit less about the vesting period because where I'm going next, I envision myself being there for a long time and being able to like really build this business. That's earlier stage. So my vesting cliff is I think over like three to six years, I can't quite recall. So like the majority will vest at three at the three year mark. And then yes. So when somebody gives you two percent of the company aside, you don't have two percent of the company, usually until you've worked for them for a period of time. So in some instances, your vesting cliff, like what I was going to say with tech, you want a shorter vesting cliff because when that acquisition happens, you want to have more vested, we could also talk about like if a liquidity event happens, like negotiating, making sure that like the rest of your equity is triggered, but regardless, like the table stakes, you want your vesting cliff to be a year. Say if you're exiting more quickly, for me, I'm cool with being a little bit more patient and building over time. Most of the companies in the consumer space are going to give you a three to six year vesting period. And that's how long it takes for your percentage to actually be a percentage in the business. You have to earn it. So during that period, you are like earning, but not like actually earning until you hit your cliff, maybe you got like 65% 70% of your equity vested at that period. And then over time, it'll continue to vast over a period. So it might be like 0.25% every quarter, or it might be like 1% every year. So that's something that you can negotiate, like not just how much you own, but how quickly you own it. And then something else that's very important to negotiate is how if there is a liquidity event that happens before your vesting period is finalized, you want to make sure that your equity vests during that liquidity event. Okay. So that you're not left with equity in a company that like no longer exists as you know. Yes. And can you explain what a liquidity event is? Yes. So a sale. Okay. That would be like if somebody, if a strategic came in, so say you are, say you're a beauty brand and like a stay-later came in and bought you. Or if you had a financial sponsor come in and raise a significant round and take a majority stake. And that's like a private equity firm. Yes. Yes. Okay. That's nice to know. Okay. I'm going to ramble. No, it's okay. I'm trying to get like nitty gritty because I think a lot of this is kind of mysterious to people and they don't understand that it is possible to do. It's a lot of words. It's a lot of vocabulary. Yeah. Jargon is insane. The jargon is crazy. So I'm trying to make sure that we're defining things. And these are things that I've picked up on by sitting in a room or being in conversations and I did not know guys what any of this meant. And then I went and looked it up later. It's doable. Yeah. Is the thing I'm trying to again demystify. And I think sometimes when we have these conversations, they can seem really out of the zone of like most people's understanding. And the thing is it's just, it's the jargon. It's completely. It's completely. It's actually not that complicated. And it's actually crazy because it's not even, it is intimidating. But once you realize that it's learnable, it's so exciting. Like I get chills thinking about it. Like think about the fact you get to negotiate something else in your agreement. Like so fun. You don't just need to think about solidarity. You know, like think about your bonus. Think about how that's received. Think about your equity. Think about obviously all of the full package, your benefits, your 401k, your investing potential. But like, yeah, it's so exciting when you realize that all of this is in your hands. Yes. I have a friend who just for the first time asked for equity in the startup. She worked. She works in. She knew she was up for a promotion. So she kind of floated that. I'm not sure if she got it, but I feel like it's just the asking. Yeah. And it's just the preparing that ask and starting to understand that world a little bit more step by step. And it's also nice because as an employee asking for equity, what you're telling me when you ask me for equity is that you're bought in, you're in it for the long haul. Yes. I don't need to worry about filling your position again. Like you're crushing and you're skin in the game. Like what could be better as an employer? Yes, I understand. So that's that's kind of what I want to inspire people to do who listen to this. If you're in that position, if you work for that type of company that kind of would do something like that, I think just going for it and asking is a good place to start. But ask with, ask with the perspective to and conviction, of course, but go into it saying like this is not an ask. This is an opportunity for you. Right? Like, okay, sure. I know we're a startup. I'll take a tiny tiny haircut on pay. Yeah. Why don't we talk about bonus based off of company performance? And why don't we discuss equity? If this is going to be, if I'm going to be like building this alongside you, I can save you money in the short term. I can work harder for you and for the company. So it's a win-win on both sides. Yeah. Do that exactly. Take that script. Take it to the boss. Take it to do efforts promoting you. Yeah. I wanted to ask you another thing that girl is are going to want to know. What is the financial conversation you wish someone had with you at 25? I'm just picked a random age because I feel like that's like the audience. Yeah. I feel like, I think first of all, just better understanding that you can negotiate things beyond salary. Okay. Is step number one, you're not limited to how much you make on an annual basis. I think better understanding what to do with your money when you have it. I think I was very lucky in the sense that I was brought up in a household that you never spent more than you had. And that's always just been table stakes. But there are good kinds of debt. And that's not something that's discussed, especially not on a personal level. Yeah. So we're talking about like professionally, I would say like what am I negotiating? And personally, what are the pieces of what are the areas of debt that are acceptable? And how can I flex into them in order to make myself more money over time? Okay. And if I'm going to be investing, just assume that the money that I invest never comes back. Okay. Yeah. That's the thing. The first thing I learned before I started my angel investing journey in particular. Yeah. Where would you, are there any resources online that you know of that girls can really start learning more about the personal finance side? Because you kind of discuss obviously the business side, but that personal finance side and the good debt and things like that. Where do you think that they could learn this? It's you know, honestly, I feel like that is still such a gap. I don't really think that there are incredible resources. Nowadays, there is a creator that does a beautiful job with personal finance. I think her name is Nicole. I'm going to have to send you her. Okay. Yeah. After we do like a little resource round up on the note itself. It's amazing. Wall Street Revease, this is like an adventure. incredible resource for just learning how to invest and what to look for when you're examining a P&L or looking at a business Okay, so if you are angel investing, I would say like start there and then beyond that honestly I hate to like talk about tech talk, but there are so many incredible creators There really are on tech talk and on a sub-stock giving out literally free information. Oh, there is a sub-stock called making sense Okay, I don't even know the guy who runs it. It's incredible. He goes in so deep into businesses Yeah, so I would I would start there. Sorry. That's great. No, that's a great. That's great Okay, and then what kind of advice would you give to people kind of an entry level Of angel investing when they're just starting when they decide they want to you said one the most important piece that I learned was You know be prepared to not see that money again. Yes, so make your decision for how much you're investing based on that metric Yes, and then what else would you say? I would say sub number one is sort of like How are you getting in the room for the opportunities? Right? So I think it's about not just taking everything that comes to you But being really strategic about the companies that you do want to be involved in One of the things that I like to do and why I'm a content creator honestly is I use it as a door opener So if I'm interested in a company I'll make a video about them on tech talk and then I use that as sort of the funnel Nine times out of ten they reach out and it becomes a conversation about like how can we provide value to each other? So I would say have a platform or a funnel to be able to bring yourself opportunities that are curated Mm-hmm, and in line with what you want and that platform funnel is also your opportunity to prove how you're gonna add value to them Which makes the conversation much easier when you say hey take my money like I want to be a value add investor Okay, that's good. So that's number one and then once you're actually in the conversations Just assume yes, whatever you write as a track Assume you're like buying a bag and you're just never gonna see it again, and then it's so nice and positive when you do see it and Invest not just for the money but also for the opportunity to learn from the founder and from the business So I get quarterly updates from the brands that I invest in I read them I pour over them. It's been like a Sunday. I have a glass of wine. I go through all of the updates It is so important to use it as a learning experience I treated it as kind of like my MBA you're in school like this is my school Yes, and use it as an opportunity to kind of be voyeuristic about what else is happening in your industry and they're jumping off point First in research and things like that. That's so nice Today's episode is sponsored by Resort Pass Resort Pass might just be one of my favorite things For the summer. 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All right, there's a lot of bear hairs to this whether it's high insurance cost Awkward pelvic exams or not having enough time to see a doctor in the first place or the doctor's booked out for literal months And O'Pill is here to change all of that So O'Pill is the first over the counter daily birth control pill So you do not need a prescription or insurance to have access to this and you don't need to talk to a doctor truly unbelievable Make no mistake though It is safe and it's effective and it's backed by over 50 years of science It's also fully FDA approved O'Pill could not be easier to use you just take one pill at the same time Every single day and it starts working after 48 hours and you can stop it or start it at any time And just so you know you can find O'Pill at most major retailers in stores and online Preventing pregnancy is as easy as O'Pill read all label information use as directed You talk a lot about The consistency versus innovation principle. I feel like can you talk about how great brands Really are both consistent and innovative Can you explain what you mean by that and I want to apply it to our lives as women how we can be both consistent and innovative and how it might kind of Really improve our quality of life as well as obviously build wealth and things like that. Okay Consistency is like what you do and innovation is how you do it. Okay. I in my mind So like the consistency is for if you apply it to a personal brand right we talk about content creation. Yeah consistency is being bullheaded about posting Twice a week on each platform Okay, it is telling yourself and being honest with yourself about what you're capable of and then doing what you say The how you do it is the innovation and that's why I believe in like non-linear career and non-linear as as women We're constantly evolving as as humans we're constantly evolving. So Don't marry yourself to one niche It's the opportunity to expand into other categories. So you look at like some of the OG beauty youtubers Today they have businesses today. They invest in shop my you know There there are opportunities to like create little spokes off the wheel Yeah, and that I would say is the innovation piece. Okay, but at your core what you stand for what you've promised to yourself That's the consistency. Okay. Yeah, and I kind of do this accidentally I guess which is why I like that I liked the concept and when I was thinking about applying it to your life It really is those like daily routines and a very like tangible way Maybe your daily routines the things that you love I have my morning coffee. I try to work out twice a week I try to connect with my husband When I can because we're long distance right now in the long distance marriage but the innovation piece Is the thing that makes me feel like alive You know, I mean you go out and I apply those values. I apply that structure to other things And I think about this all the time too now with school because I notice patterns everywhere Everything's a pattern everything's kind of the same framework built into something else And I noticed this really a lot with school not only the way that I approach school But my the topics I learn about in school like right now this week we're learning about a program called comp stat Which is like a it's both a meeting every month and a program and a like a physical like software program and a management system that Police used to like better police essentially on various metrics So we're learning about constant and they have a very specific Like framework for how you do it But it also mirrors the intelligence framework that let's say like CIA or FBI uses But it also mirrors the framework that you could like use in your your own life Yeah, I'm like trying to like figure out I'm so nerdy about this now that I'm like how do I make like a comp stat? It's kind of a I wouldn't say it's like 100% full proof the system and it's debated one whether it helps policing or not But the idea of it is really helpful and I'm like how do I apply this in an episode to like our life? Wait, that's a fast way. But then I'm like that's too meta. I feel like that's we're getting we're getting to in the weeds when it comes like notes Self of like episodes. I'm like guys. I don't know what the five comp stat principles To our lives. Wait, no, but I love that it reminds me of this it's consistency and innovation It's multi steps, but it's it's essentially boils down to what is consistent and what is innovative in this system to move us forward more efficiently And you can do it in work you do can do it as a brand and you can do it in your own life I would like you to do this Because I think what the future of creators is like and and the future of taste I mean people are debating how you have taste in sort of an AI algorithmic driven world, right? But it's this notion of synthesis, right? So you take all of your inputs and what makes us unique as individuals is all of our inputs are different Take aside the social media the algorithm obviously like you're in school. You're learning about you're learning about yeah something that is so - I don't know if it's just the day to day. But how do you apply that to our day to day? That's new thinking. - Yes, and that's what the genius comes in. I think every person I know who's really interesting to me does do that. I don't personally know enough that's what I'm trying to learn to apply my certain thinking, my POV to this type of information. And where that goes, I honestly have no idea. But it's the movement there that's very exciting to me. And I love a niche. So I'd like when someone kind of, again, brings in their unique POV and I like to build up POV as much as possible, doing as many random things as possible. Like I'm always really essentially, you know, trying to encourage the girls to if you have an interest to follow it, even if it's random. - Is that why you impact your school? - I think it was, I've always wanted to do this one thing. It's always been an interest in mine since I was 10. Okay, but my dad was a fighter pilot. He was in the Middle East a lot. So I would go to the computer lab on the little Apple computer lab at my school. Go on askgeves.com when that was a thing. And be like, trying to figure out what he was doing in the Middle East, to be honest. Because he'd just come home and be like, whatever. And I was just deeply curious. And that's where my obsession with geopolitics and national security started at this age. But then I got my degree in politics and it was kind of touching those sectors. But then LA was so fun and I started a blog and we did all this. So it's returning back to an interest. But finding a way to apply it to what I do now is going to be like the art part of it. It's kind of, again, like you said, the synthesis. Like that just scratches an itch in my brain that I'm excited to see where it goes. But I see all the creators that I follow, many of them that I follow, you included. They talk about things that are larger than their day-to-day matcha order or whatever. But that's tied into a much larger picture or just a weird interest. Tell me your matcha order and then teach me something niche. Well, that's what makes something interesting. So even I apply that to brand building too. There's a brand that I'm currently obsessed with. She has no idea that I exist, but it's so cool. It's called 39BC. It's this body oil wash company. On its face, like a body oil wash. But it's rooted every single detail around the brand is rooted in specifically the period and time when Cleopatra met Mark Antony. And what was happening on a political level? But what was also happening so socially? And then every single detail from that time period is it feels palpable in the final brand, not just the product, but the way that it is visually represented and it's copy in the way that she's story tells around it. I just think it's so fascinating. And she was doing this. She laid out all the books that she read as references in building the brand. And they were ancient texts and manuscripts. I mean, truly, she went down. I made a video about this the other day. And I think it's very niche. It's not really fascinating with people. But it's like, she literally dug down into the molten core. And I'm like, what is the story of that brand pulled it out and then distilled it into something that was relevant and tactical enough for a modern consumer, which is so cool. Yes. So I mean, even if you do the same for this specific thing that you're studying, there are so many applications for it. You just have to make people care in a language that they understand. They understand. And that's one thing that I've been trying to-- I don't know. I'm toying with things like I need to have analytical writing out there for whatever future career I want to have. I'm also not taking up the table, perhaps, meeting people through school and investing in a product early that has to deal with intelligence. I just have to know about intelligence before I know what can make the world better. So I'm doing the things. I'm learning. I'm doing to be going to all of the security conferences. I love this for you. Like a business casual. I was talking to Chris about this. I haven't had to wear a business casual ever in my life. And now I've been to your friend. I know. She was in sales before she was a stylist. So I'm like, this is the perfect kind of person to talk to about this. But this kind of thing, I think, this is the new wave of creators in a way. They're not just creators. Or there are a person who's very niche down and can create and teach you about something from their POV that make you interested in it. Yeah. Again, selling something. And how cool is it to be passionate about something? Again, thank God. I was so passionate about-- remember the beginning of this in LA early. Yes. I guess I would say 2015, 2016, until pre-COVID. That was such an exciting time for blogging and influencing, because it was new. It was fresh. We didn't know. And I think that not knowing into knowing part, that's the part that I enjoy. Now it's kind of become a little like MSAIL's person. And I feel like I work in sales. I get the brief by a brand we have the brief meeting. We do the whole thing. There's all the metrics, whatever, which is how it needs to work. That's how the business works. But it's not as exciting anymore, because it just feels like the same thing over and over again. It's very formulaic, which has made me again drawn to a lot of your content talking about how your career can be multi-dimensional. You don't need to do the same thing every single day. It's very non-linear. And it's part of the reason I did go back to school, because I feel like a draw to something. And I wish everyone could just like-- you don't have to go fully back to school. I found a program that's amazing. They can tell you about if you're interested in going back to school in this way. It is so flexible. I have five years to finish a two-year degree. You can do it all online. You can do it some online. Some in person. It's an amazing program. And everyone knows the professors know that people have families that they have jobs. They're like, listen, if you need a little extra time, email me before and we'll talk about it. But I know you guys have shit coming on. I like this is perfect. I would love that. I would love that. I need to tell you definitely more about that, for sure. I want to get into here at the end. I wanted to kind of move into the motherhood, like aspect of your life and really protecting that time. Do you have any tips before we start a rapid fire questions, because I'm excited to get to those? But do you have any tips for people who want this big successful career, such as yours, that you're building and you're still really interested in? And you are inspired by. But you also have to make time for obviously your relationship, you have two children. What are we doing day to day to protect that time with them? What are you kind of having to give up if you're being really honest with yourself to maintain that kind of lifestyle? OK. A quick rapid fire of my day, just to be so transparent. I wake up at 5am. I start working at 5.30. I literally roll out of bed, get ready, go to my computer. I start working. My team right now is on the East Coast and summon the UK in Europe. So it's just it is what it is. I'm typically on calls literally at my computer on Zoom until 2pm. And then from 2 to like I would say, 4-ish, I'm doing content. So I'm reading subsets. I'm writing subsets. Meanwhile, all this whole time cloud co-work is doing other things for me. But I'm using that period of time to get up today on the industry, read the briefs that it gives me, make my own content, write for Marie Claire, write for ink, take the content that I need to take. And then typically from like 5 to 6, it's like my pen cheddar time. I like to clean out my inbox. I'm saying this as if every day is perfect. It's absolutely not. This is my dream. Yeah. And there's like four copies in here. But regardless, like between 5 and 6, it's I want to get to as close to inbox zero as humanly possible, because that like cleans out the cobwebs in my brain before. I see my kids. My nanny leaves at 6. And that is a long day for my nanny. She works like 10 hour days. And like thank God for her. Because your husband's also working. My husband is in attorney. And so he is like actually in the office. I work from home right now. I'm going into an office starting in August. I'm really excited about it. But it also it's a it's a push and pull. Because obviously I won't see my kids as much. But I won't be as distracted. So that'll be, you know, the time is an intentional. Yes, exactly. That I'd rather have intentional time. I'm with the kids until they go to about at 7.30. And I'm like very much off my phone. I unless I'm showing them videos on my phone, they really like to see like videos of themselves. So when I take videos, they're like, oh, let me see me. I'm like, OK, it's so weird. But yeah, our kids these days are going to be so wild with the selfies. No, right now. My daughter knows how to take photos. There's a pendulum swing of people wanting to get their kids away from tech, which I totally understand. But also they are going to grow up in a world with it. So I want them to know how to use it. No, exactly. Like I'm not a no screen mom. I'm like an intentional screen mom. Yes, yes. But yeah, so they go to about at 7.30. And then I go back on my computer. I mean, I make dinner. I'm probably done with dinner at 8.30. I don't make dinner time such a liar. Yeah. Order. Or I do like methodology. I am not a cooker. Yes. Chef. And then at like 8.30, I'm back on my computer. I'm working from the couch or from bed while we watch something or my husband's working to. Yeah. Until we go to bed at like 9.30. 10. Yeah. I mean, that's the reality of what it takes. And I think that that's important to note that like you're doing all of these things. But you do have an Annie at home helping. Yeah. You do have a quick way to eat, whether it's a, you know, ordering all day. We have a housekeeper. I mean, like, yes. Sometimes these things are in place. I feel like people make it look like they're doing it all. And you really can't do it all. No, like actually do it all, you know? You can't do it all all at once. And you can't be the best at everything all the time. Like you have to outsource what you're not good at. Like it, I realized very quickly that like, I am not the best chef. Yeah. I'm not the best housekeeper. I mean, just it's not my talent. And so I outsource those things. And it's, I would go crazy, truthfully, if I was with my kids, 24/7. Yes. I need to have outside adult stimulation. I need to be learning constantly. To be a better version of yourself. I know that's definitely me too. All right. Let's move on to some rapid fire real quick. OK. What's one brand you'd buy your own money on right now? I would bet my own money on MPH. MPH. - Okay, I love that one. Yeah, it's a great one. What's the best thing you've bought under $100 lately? - Oh, oh, there are these electrolytes that are the brand is ProMex. - ProMex, I've seen it. - Coconut flavor is insane. It's all supplements now, actually, which is very weird. So like that, the Chroma bone broth. - Okay, love that. - I'll die out of that hell. - And then there's this, oh my God, there's this supplement called PlainSpeak, have you seen it? It's like creatine, collagen, protein, and then vitamins, all in one powder. - Yeah, yeah, that's amazing. - So like, wow, like you said for PlainSpeak. - PlainSpeak. - PlainSpeak, okay, cool. What's an investment piece worth every penny? - Jude, Jews. - Jude. - Jude. - Okay. - Yeah. - What are they? - I'm wearing some, actually, but it's a brand that I had never heard of before my stylist told me about them. And they are so well made, they're like relatively affordable. - Okay. - Like ish. - Yeah, yeah. - If you're buying like Saint Laurent, like this is more affordable. - Yes, yeah. - And I think they're just like so chic and unique. - Are they comfortable? - I think they're comfortable. - I think they're good if I need to go to a, get into a heal for some kind of thing for work. - Jude. - Jude. - Jude's pumps, I think they're called the famed pumps that are just like epic. - Okay, and pumps from Jude. All right, what's your current coffee order and the first app you check every morning? - Okay, current coffee order is or matcha. I mean, like realistically, I'm a coffee girl and then matcha in the, I try to do one coffee and then the rest matches, but I love my coffee. So pistachio melc latte. - Okay. - I like it hot, 'cause if it's iced, I drink it too fast. And then matcha, it's just like really simple. I actually, I just posted my college in matcha recipe, which felt very off-brand for me, but it was like really fast. - I thought it was. - Yeah. So I like to do like my matcha. I use cloud chai, use rockies. There's a new one called maru chat, maru, murure cha, I don't know how to pronounce it. I do it with tash, pistachio melc, and then the college in is par olive. So I like to make my own mouth. - Yeah, I've seen par olive before. What's the first app you check every morning? - Oh, yes, I forgot. - Email. Superhuman. - Yeah, same. Okay, what's a quote, credibility flex? It's actually free. - Being super passionate about something. Like the second I see you light up about something, I don't care if it's about rocks. Like I will be it. - For me it's the comp staff. - Literally, I am like immediately drawn to those people. So yeah. - Okay, just passion, excitement, authentic excitement. - Truly. - What is the best airworn smoothie? - I don't like airworn smoothies. - Oh, you don't? - No, which means I'm ordering the wrong thing. - Okay, okay. - Well, I'm only getting the Halo Beaver one. I do really like that one. - Okay, you know. - Yeah, it's a little sweet. - For smoothie sweet. - I like it. - I like to do my own smoothie. I like a banana, frozen banana. - Okay. - With so much spinach, it would make you like barf, if you saw. Like two tablespoons of almond butter or peanut butter and almond milk. - I like that. - So ball. - Which is so boring. - Yeah, I mean it tastes like a peanut butter. - Yeah. - I love that. Okay, what's one thing every woman should negotiate for but does not? - I quit. - Equity. - Yeah, equity, 100%. - What's one piece of overrated career advice and one piece of underrated career advice? - Underrated is being curious. - Okay. - I think we got hit over the head a lot with like the overrated of like work harder than everyone and I agree with that. Don't get me wrong. I do think you should work harder than everyone. That's not overrated. - Yeah, yeah. It's kind of a built-in though. - Yeah. It's sort of like a table stage. - Yeah, that's kind of mocking it. - Yeah, well like overrated I would say is like dedicate your life to one thing and just be amazing at it. I see that perspective. I see how happy my mom is and how's the disaster that she is is just I think in today's day and age overrated. Oh, the other overrated one is that AI is gonna take over your job. I believe wholeheartedly that like we should be partnering with AI. - So we're just like learn how to use it to make your day to day more efficient. - Yeah, and you mentioned cloud co-work. I'm just getting into that. I wish we had more time to discuss what you do with cloud co-work but have you done like you've done content about this or actually honestly no. I haven't, I really do. - I really like the way you position things. You make it easy to understand. So I'm just with cloud people again. There's a lot of jargon and a lot of whatever. Like it's just the definition. I've again noticed that with my school stuff. I was so nervous because there's so many abbreviations. There's so many agencies. There's so many things to know. And everyone's talking like 'cause everyone's act military everyone's been in Intel for a while. And it's just like we did your intro, Kira. I was like, what do you say? They're like the questions were like what's your name? Where do you live? Like were you accessing this from? What have you done? You know, what's your background in Intel? I'm just so far. And what are you hoping to get from this course? And then put a photo of you that represents you or it can be you. So there's some people that are definitely in intelligence that cannot disclose what they look like. Because that's the question was really what have you done in intelligence so far to the point you can share. So people are answering this. They're X military Intel. They're using this course to refine their skills more or they're X military trying to go into military Intel 'cause that's what my current professor has done and now he's the professor. So everyone's talking about this. The people who had not been in Intel before are attorneys, things like that. And I'm like, he just worked in social media, as I said. Oh my gosh. But my husband played in DC for a long time. That's the team he came up with and that's the team he spent most of his time with and my name is Ross. So two of my classmates actually were like, oh, I thought, yeah, I noticed your last name 'cause I explained. Oh, that's great. A little bit about like how I got to know DC and stuff and everyone's very nice to me and totally normal about it. So that's fine. And they actually better at it than I thought. Like my greatest sick, my professor's very impressed. I'm like, okay, well, I would thought it was above me and it's not. It was honestly the jargon. Okay, this is like literally everything that we're doing. It doesn't matter where you come from. Like if you have the propensity for it and you have the passion for it, you can do anything and be incredible at it. And I have the passion and to bring in the cloud thing, I use cloud so much to help me better understand. If I do not understand a question, if I do not understand a reading, I go on to cloud, I say, here's what's happening right now. Can you explain this to me like I'm five? And it goes and it explains it to me. And I use it to also help me with other resources. I do the reading for the week. I say, here's the reading for the week. What can I listen to to add like a dimension to this that I'm not really getting from this reading? And that's all it takes. That's great. It's all it takes. And again, you can use cloud for it and you're not smart enough to be in the room. It usually is the jargon that's confusing. And once you start to get it, you just start to get it. Yeah, it's kind of like just learning a new language. I love that. Like everything's intimidating, but it's all in French. Totally. Yeah, yeah. But you learn French, you're like, oh, this is fucking easy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sounds great. Okay, so let's see question number nine. What's your most repeated outfit in your closet? Probably this one, honestly. Where's everything from? This is like a totem skirt. Okay. My Jude heels. And this is a corruged top. But I just like, this is my formula now. Yes. It's just like a simple skirt, simple pant, everything tailored. That's perfectly something like a little unexpected. Like I like a sheer skirt because like, why not? I'm like polished, but still like wearable. Okay, yeah. I've been looking for business casual brands lately. That's not all polyester. That's been tough. That's really tough. Honestly, yeah, I have to credit everything to my stylist. Yeah. I don't know how people have like the time and the understanding to be, I just wrote my next piece for Marie Claire about this specifically of like, why are you expecting yourself to be like an expert in clothes if you're like an expert in so many other areas of life? Yes. First to an extra. Higher out. Yes. Like you do. Yes. All right. My last rapid fire is what is your note to self this week to yourself? Hmm. That's a great question. I should have been prepared for it because I know you always know this. Sometimes I remember sometimes I don't. My actual note to self is like, allow myself to sit and read, which I know is not. I literally, I actually have it as a note reminder that pops up on my phone, which is so I want to come up with something better, but like it's so embarrassing. I have it pop up at like 930. I can't sit and read. I can't sit and read unless I'm being, I'm on like a deadline. Like my, for example, my discussion questions for school are due on Thursday. We get the reading on Monday. I wait until Thursday. Thursday is my day where I do this, the reading. I sit around, I do my reading. I'm asking Claude the stuff. Yeah. But I only do it because it's due at like 859. I have to do it. I'm better on a deadline. I only read on a deadline. So and again, my life would be better if I just sat down Monday morning and read anything. I know. Substack. I know. I'm forcing myself to reread the count of Monte Cristo, which brings no, I'm like, it because it brings no value to my life outside of just like enjoyment. And once I'm like five pages in, I'm in it. You're in there. Yeah. But like it's so hard to do your first five pages. Well, do you just sit there with a glass of wine and romanticize it? Or are you just like going raw, dogging the reading? I'm sort of just like raw, I'm trying not to drink during the week, which is extremely hard when you have two cats and whatever fun. Yeah. I'll make it like a cup of tea. Okay. And that sort of scratches the edge, but it like doesn't really work. Yeah, yeah. I mean, that's still romanticizing in some way. Yeah. Maybe like a little reading. I try. Area in your house. Yeah. Yeah. Or get pussy in the bed or something. Yeah, a little red light. I think my note to self is, again, somewhat like tactical and like obvious, but making sure to block out my time. Like I work so much better. And I don't even mean time like per day, I mean per week even. Like this week I finally got to like doing a podcast day and then doing my school day all at once. I do like reference my materials in the beginning of the week and kind of like listen to it again, audio of what applies to this material, but I never sit down and read it like first thing in the week. But I already have like the context before I start the reading. because the audio is just easier for me to listen in the car or like while I'm walking or something. But I can block out now, like blocking out school just for Wednesday or Thursday is the best thing I can do for my brain. And I always forget it. It's obvious and people do it all the time. But like for me, it's hard not to just go do a million things every day, you know? So again, kind of dumb to me. It's so good. It's so good. It's obvious, but you need, sometimes your note to self is just an obvious thing that you need to be like reminding yourself of. No, completely. It's literally the sticky note. Yeah. Well, Kira, thank you so much for coming on. We're kind of everyone. Find you on social media. Thank you for having me. My Instagram is Kira McKenzie. My TikTok is Kira McKenzie. And then my substock is material interests. Do you put your TikTok content on Instagram? Because you come up on my TikTok all the time. I don't. I don't know. I don't know. I feel like it's nice to have like a value add on TikTok, a value add on Instagram. True. And then your substock is a more in depth. Yeah. I always felt like the content formats were different for like what people wanted from platforms, but maybe that's converged about it. Well, I think that I make that point to say, I think they should follow you on everything, because I consume more of your content on TikTok. Yes. I'm just now getting into substock. So I'm again trying to read more versus scroll. That's kind of how I'm trying to implement that rule in my life. So I haven't read the substock yet, but the TikTok is very so you most so definitely follow her on TikTok. That's my favorite. I want you to, you should start a substock about your school. I was clawed, told me to do that whenever I'm talking about what I want to do next and building out this idea. Yeah. It said I'd need some writing out there. And if I want to, I have to start doing that. It's just I'm in my intro course right now. Oh, yeah. I've got 10 more credits. Okay. So I'm like, I want to dive into this. So I even have the verbiage to like write about this. And maybe relate it to our lives. Totally. And also not speak in freaking jargon and sail these three letter agencies. Like, say them plainly. You just have a definition. Literally. Just a vocabulary. You just like. Yes. Sometimes I'm sharing my professors emails or my reading into cloud. And I say, take all of the three letters or all the revisions and lengthen them. Because again, I know what it is. I always say it. But do it every single time so I can obviously build that memory. I like that. But I could do that. Maybe on substack. We'll see. That's a good hack. So much for coming on. You'll have to come back on again to talk about cloud. I like we're using it. Yes. I'd love that. Okay. Thank you so much for listening to today's episode of Note to Self. Please, please remember to rate and review wherever you get your podcasts. Five stars. Preferably, of course, this helps the show so much. Come find it to self on Instagram @NTSbyPS and @NOTESelf.com on TikTok. You can also find me across socials @PaytonCertain. Thank you forever. And I'll talk to you next week. Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this episode.