The No Regrets Murderer - Montgomery, Minnesota

(upbeat music) - Hello everybody and welcome back to Small Town Murder, Express. - Yay, and chew, chew. - Yeah, indeed, Jimmy. Yeah, indeed. My name is James Petrigallo. I'm here with my co-host. - I'm Jimmy Wiseman. - Thank you, folks, so much for joining us today on another absolutely wild edition of Small Town Murder. Yes, this is one. This could have been a regular episode. So we are 10 pounds of murder and a two pound bag today, guys. It's pretty good stuff here. We cannot wait for it. Before we get to that though, I'd like you to do us all a favor here. Head over to shutupandgivememerder.com and get your tickets for live shows. - Get it, yeah. - Get your tickets for live shows. This is a Minnesota episode today. So definitely get your tickets for the September 19th, Minneapolis show at the state theater. All you Minnesota is out there. Also, there's a few left for the night before, the 18th of the past in Milwaukee. So you can get those too if you hurry up and do that right now. 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And then for small town murder, it was love after lock up, season six. Oh my goodness, did we have a good time with that? So can't wait, check those out. patreon.com/crimeinsports and you get all the shows we put out. - Yeah. - Your stupid opinions, crime and sports, small town murder, all add free with your Patreon. And then on top of that, you get a shout out at the end of the regular show where Jimmy will mispronounce your name. You can't beat it. Patreon.com/crimeinsports. Just like the name of that show you should listen to. That said, I think it's time everybody. I think it's time to sit back. What do you say here, Jimmy? Let's all clear the lungs. There we go. Arms to the sky. Let's all shout, shout up and give me murder. Let's do this, everybody. Yeah. Shall we? Let's do it. - We are taking off for going to Minnesota this week. - It's a nice place. - Not bad at all, lovely. This is Montgomery, Minnesota, which I've never even heard of. Yeah, I've never even heard of that. This is in Southern, Minnesota. - Oh. - In a South Central, maybe a little toward the east. It's about an hour outside Minneapolis. It's like it's technically commutable. If you don't mind, you're right. Four hours and 10 minutes to more head, Minnesota, our last Minnesota episode, which was the babysitter murder. That was crazy stuff. Minnesota brings the crazy usually with the murders. This is in Lissur County, S-U-E-U-R, Lissur, maybe. I don't know. Population here, or I'm sorry, the area code here, 507. I was like 507. That doesn't seem like enough people. 'Cause there isn't. Population here, 3,237 people. That's what I thought there. Me, still pretty damn, this is a small place. It really is. It's a kind of a rural community. Median household income here, 58,176, which is below the national average by about 1011 grand. And the median home cost also lower than the rest of the country. - Really? - 268,900 bucks, so. - That's great. - Not bad. The nickname here, it is the Kalaki Capital of the World. It's K-O-L-A-C-K-Y. - Is that a fish? - It's a pastry, actually. It's like a little cookie with fruit in it. And they look delicious. They look absolutely delicious. It's a check thing. - It's the capital, huh? - That's the capital of the world. A lot of check people here. And they've made that the capital of the world. Yeah, that's a check dessert, apparently. It was platted this town in 1877 when the railroads extended here. That's the only reason why. It was founded in the mid-1870s, and it was a big railroad and agricultural hub, which helped with railroads. And a lot of checks, German and Irish immigrants here. That's what the checks really took over the culture here. And the city preserves its unique cultural identity through historic downtown architecture. So that's what we got here. Reviews of this town, it is not a well-loved town on niche. It is 2.1 stars on niche, which you would never eat food from a place with 2.1 stars. You'd be terrified of that place. Here's 5 stars, awesome town, awesome. Live to hear all my life, that's a long time. (laughs) I love that's a long time. You mean in context or just for you. For you, your whole life's a long time, but you could be 21 and someone else could be 78. So maybe that's not that long. Very nice all year. Montgomery's a small town, usually peaceful and very nice people. Right, usually in case we'll find out some complaints here. Here's 3 stars, not much to do without going to a different town. It's a whole review, which means there's nothing to do because we're talking about this town. Here's one star, wow, where do I start? That's a good stuff. Let's try that. Have fun moving here while your neighbor behind you will tell you often how you're wrong for a stupid property line. There's mean, old, elderly women here who have nothing better to do than starting property battles. His neighbors, and there's me. He just, he just put that on everybody. He just, he said that's everybody, how she move in, and it comes with one. The city assigns you a mean, elderly lady to yell at you about property lines to move in. Have fun. Yeah, you don't even know, she doesn't even live around there. She's just assigned by the city. How fun moving here. She goes, I'm sorry, it's my job. I can't, I have to, I have to do this. I was told. Yeah. But this is a lot of people say this shit though. That's the crazy thing. Here's another one star living here was bad on first move in. Neighbors love to fight about property line. Does anyone do a survey here? What's so ever? Is there a surveyor that works in Minnesota that can? Yeah, there should be no fighting. That should be a definitive county doesn't make it live. I don't understand it. They will make your life hell because of it and cops won't do anything except give you an attitude. They'll also yell at you about property lines. And then finally one star. What can I say other than a bunch of nosy neighbors, small town, everyone knows each other and all places, all places kiss ass club with the police while police sit there and waste tax payer dollars. Yeah. There's some anger in this small town this is the most anger we've ever encountered in Minnesota ever. This is crazy. Under what the deal is. I don't know. That one. All three of their issues. I'd love to sit down and have a chat with them. Well, but we can't because we have to do things because there's things to do here, baby. Collockie days. Right. That's the festival. Face three day. And they call it a traditional central European bite size pastry made with rich cream cheese or yeast dough folded around a sweet center and finished with powdered sugar. It's this lovely little like cookie thing that's kind of folded over and there's like fruit in the middle and then powdered sugar on top. Oh, you know what? Amazing. Those are the things that come with Omaha steaks. Oh, really? Maybe. There's Italian cookies that are similar to this with the fruit and other stuff. Okay. And I love them. It's not that bakeable pastry thing with the, it's like a cup of floret of, if you will, with like berries in the middle. Yeah, there's berries, but there's different shapes. There's like a little fold over almost like a burrito that just barely touches in the center. And then there's like actual like kind of cookies with the fruit on top with, so it depends. But here we go. At the festival, there's a pancake egg sausage and ham breakfast that's going to take place. The annual softball tournament, if you want to feel like you're in a fucking funny farm. Uh, the homemade Kallaki baking contest. Oh, yeah. Gotta have that. Um, then there's also an old-time musician's jamboree. Old time. Doesn't say who's gonna be there, but it's from noon to three. Nice. Uh, bean bag tossed tournament. So cornhole. There you go. Um, St. Paul check and slowvac folk dancers. Oh, Slavic folk dances. I don't know what their dancing is. If it, if it's like Irish, I'll watch. It's probably colorful and boring after three minutes. I would assume like most things like that. Like most things with cultural significance. Impressive and then boring after three minutes. Uh, unless it's like native. You know what I mean? Native dancing. I'll watch those. The whole fucking things in four. Three minutes. Okay, I see. That's about what they're doing. I got three minutes for you. That's about it. Oh, a little AD with that kind of shit. That's what they're doing. It's like Sarah was like, will you want to go well watching? And I went, why? You go, we go out there. You see a well. Yep, there they are. I see like, okay. Who cares? Then what? If it's, you got to find them too and hopefully they're wanting to come to the surface. Are they going to put on like a game show for us when we find them? Probably not. I'm probably just going to swim around and try to get away from us. Honestly, I've seen one too many articles about killer whales blasting boats and sinking them. I don't want to get near them. They hate us. Uh, then if all that folk dancing is too much culture for you right after that's a truck and tractor pull. Let's get right back to, right back down to earth in America. Yeah. There's a collacky eating contest. Gotta have that. Then the music. All right. Oh, there's also a Queens pageant and a homemade wine competition. Fuck. There's some prisoner coming in going, I got this. No, I spent 10 years in the joint. I'm good at this. Y'all better touch this one last. Yeah, you don't want this stuff. You don't want this one last. It's a little stronger in your average one. This is just oranges. The, the bands there jumping at the wood side is one of them. The blue ringers. Okay. This Charlie stick a band. Sounds like it's probably polka or something like that. I bet. The James Watten band. John Deats and the Twin Lakes trio. All right. And there's four of them. And of course, you got to have triple dog dare. Not double. Yeah. Fucking triple. That's three dog night, isn't it? I thought it first. My right. I was like, is that a three dog night for a new band? That's because that's all I could think that said. Let's talk about some murder here. Here we go. Oh boy. All right. I had to figure out really what not to include in this one because it was there's a lot to it. All right. Let's go to January 6, 2014. It's 11 p.m. All right. January 6, 2014 11 p.m. Richard Nelson. He's born January 7, 1966. He's 48 years old at this point in time. Or he, I should say, he will be 48 in about an hour. All right. It's going to be 48 because his birthday is January 7. Yeah. Now a little bit on his background and we'll get into more of it, but he's been separated. He's got two sons and at this point an ex-wife named Christina. He and his wife separated in August of 2010, then divorced in 2011 in April. There's two sons and one lives with the ex-wife, Christina, the younger of the sons, who's also a teenager at this point, and one son lives with Richard. Okay. Yeah. Now the son that lives with Richard is Jonas David Nelson. He's born December 30th, 1995. So he's 18 and about a week. Yeah. This is where he's at. Now, Jonas calls 911 at 11 o'clock on January 6th. And he says that Richard, his dad was asleep on the living room floor, which the hell kind of life is this. He's passed out in the living room floor. I could see it, but yeah. Wow. He depends on how he got there. Exactly. And I think alcohol might have been involved here, possibly because he does this a lot. But after he calls 911 and he tells the cops that he was in his bedroom. He's been watching movies up in his bedroom. And he said he heard glass breaking and a pop sound. And here's his dad, bloody on the floor with a gunshot wound to the head. Oh. So they said I came downstairs and I don't know what happened. He goes, I someone, I guess just assume based on the glass breaking in that, I assume someone shot him from outside the house. So he's like, I don't know if it's a stray or somebody was intending to do this or what? But he said my dad was on the living room floor and appeared dead. So if you can come on over. So the cops and EMS go to the residence and they arrive and they observe Richard lying on the floor with his head resting on a pillow and blankets covering his body. So this is an intentional, I'm going to sleep on the floor. Yeah. You know, they determine he is deceased. There is brain matter and a large amount of blood on the floor. He got shot with a 45 basically. Wow. To I believe if I'm not mistaken, it's a 45. Oh, no, no, it's something else. Never mind. That's a different case. So and also skull fragments with blood spatter on the walls and the immediate vicinity of the body. So there's a goddamn exit wound. This is the very lethal gunshot. It's brutal. It feels targeted. No firearm located in the area. Well, it has to be because the guy's on the ground. So to shoot to shoot from the window, you'd have to shoot down at the floor. Yeah, that's what it came in the window and he was sitting. Yeah, reclinering it popped him in the chest. Strays don't hit that angle. No, never, never. No firearm is located around the body. So does not appear to be self-inflicted or anything like that right away. Now here's some family background because right now they walk in the house. There's an 18 year old kid going. Here's my dad. He's on the floor. So let's find out a little bit more about these folks and what's going on here. Now, Christina Singer is the ex-wife and Jonas's mother. Jonas's mother here says that she met Richard, the remutual friend at church when he was 30 and she was 24. They began dating in 1995 and she experienced an unplanned pregnancy with Jonas in April of 1995 and decided to marry and decided to get married based on the pregnancy. Yeah, and she said I was in love with this guy. She then left her, she had a position at the church. She like worked at the church, but she left the church due to becoming pregnant prior to marriage. They weren't cool with that. The church didn't want unmarried pregnant chicks wandering around hand in hand out fucking wafers or whatever you do it. I'm sure it's like a Lutheran church or something. I don't know. Oh no, they're Catholic. I'm sorry. She said though once we were married, he owned me. That's what she said. She said she failed to identify like bread flags basically. She didn't see like his constant recurrent unemployment. She said he'd have 10 jobs in a year. Oh, he just can't. Good with authority. No, and he can't hold a job. When she was eight and a half months pregnant, he quit his job one week prior to the onset of her maternity leave, which is that's the time you can't quit your job. And if you get fired, you you cry and beg. I got a holy shit. You can't fire me now. We need the insurance at this time. Yes, big time. She described him as quote, giving into this dark depression. There was a dark evil part about him. One time he looked at me and I remember his eyes looked black. She described him exhibiting extreme control over all aspects of their family. He's very controlling. She said he was extremely mean and it would ignore her for days and would make her gravel for forgiveness, but said also it wasn't good enough to earn his forgiveness. So she wouldn't she didn't even do anything wrong, but she'd have to beg for whatever weird forgiveness. And then he would tentatively sort of give it to you, but not really, which is weird. He placed basically all the blame for all their problems on her. And she said he was extremely unpredictable unpredictable and very critical of everyone anywhere in his vicinity. She left him multiple times, but always returned because she said she had extreme guilt arising from her Christian faith. And she wanted to strengthen her marriage despite this mess. Wow. In 2005, she left for two months due to the perception that the marriage was getting very dangerous, quote unquote. That's not good. She believes also that something potentially happened to Jonas at age 10 because she said he quit saying, I love you, mom. And also started calling his dad Rick rather than dad, which is a for some reason, the fact that it's Rick makes it more insulting. I don't know why. Okay, Rick, you can say that real just right. Yeah. What do you want? Garbage? Yeah. I got I'm right on top of that. Rick. No problem. Right after this, Rick. Yeah. It's different. If his name was just different, I don't know if his name was Henry, it would feel fine. But Rick feels like an insult. All right, Rick. Sure. Uh, he also began stating that he hated himself and wanted to die. This is Jonas brown time around 10. Um, despite these concerns and the mother wanting to get young Jonas in therapy, which at 10 if they start to, you know, displaying these things that would be a good place to go, Rick refused to allow him to attend therapy. All right. Wouldn't allow it. Um, during their two months separation, Christina and Rick, she described Rick as engaging in a honeymoon stage. So now he's trying to win her back. Um, he was extremely nice to order and was told by others that he was crying all the time and just felt terrible about how he had treated her and that she was so unhappy. So she agreed to return if Rick would seek therapy or whatever, whatever services needed. Um, he agreed to it, but then immediately just by the time she got back, didn't do any of it and returned to his cruel behavior, the second she walked through the door pretty much. Um, she also said that he purchased all of her clothing. She was not allowed to buy her own clothing and the kids back this up to and she said that would send mixed messages because he would send her very different shit. Like here, you're wearing this and she, he didn't, she didn't understand who, she, he was trying to make her be essential. Uh, one time when their sons were older here. So the last few years, he purchased and instructed her to wear a bikini in front of their sons, despite her discomfort at wearing a bikini in front of her sons because she's pretty modest. Yeah. Which, yeah. Why put this on in front of our kids, pop your tits, really make them look at it. What do they do? Bikini line, just put it on. I mean, make it pop out the sides. I want them to know what's in there. That's what it's about. I want them to see what's really under there. You know, none of this porn stuff. Show them what a real woman looks like. Yeah. He would go back and forth between purchasing her what she called slutty clothing and then also like what she considered to be masculine a tire at the same time. So either real slutty stuff, high cut low cut, that kind of thing or like lead jeans in his flannel shirt. Like, you know, stuff like that. Um, really he goes back and forth. Yeah. Yeah. And he appeared or recurrently would ask her to alter her appearance. He disapproved of her wearing any cosmetics at all. No makeup. What? Yeah. Tell a 30-something year old woman you're not allowed to put any makeup on and be like put on this slutty outfit with no makeup. Also here and then put your lead jeans on when we're going. Yeah. There you go. Throw on these caterpillar work boots. Yeah. When she got a job with a part time job with a cosmetics company, he was over the moon pissed off at this because now she's right around the makeup. She's going to have all the makeup now. She's going to get it for free. God forbid. Um, he would monitor the grocery list as well. Like and say what was okay. One time she bought band-aids that weren't pre-approved and um, she, he became enraged with her lost his mind about band-aids. For 29, don't you dare. And we have two kids, two boys, they need band-aids a lot. Uh, another incident she bought of loaf, uh, she bought a loaf of bread. Yeah. You can tell. I mean, obviously that would set either of us off. How dare you bring bread into this home? What a car. How dare you? How dare you? You know, I'm trying to lose weight. She brought, uh, bought a loaf of bread. And he chastised her at the dinner table due to the price of bread. What kind of bread did she buy? He did this for two hours. What? No matter what, two hours of yelling at someone for a dollar 49 loaf of fucking bread, what it's 2000. It's like 2007. Yeah. Well, for bread is a buck 49 tops. Yeah. Well, I mean, if you got super expensive orally, you're looking 379. Oh, why mean if you're going to go crazy, if you're going to get, if you're on the East Coast trying to get Roman meal, yeah, of course it's going to cost more. But come on, we're not talking about that. I'm talking about that. That day's bread isn't even out yet. No, Christ, with 85 seeds and shit on the out, glued to the outside of it. You know, I like those. I don't want to crunch on my bread. No. I want to crunch if it's toasted. I don't want to crunch on whatever mystery seeds are in there. I can't get enough of that. Everything bagel bread. That shit is, I like everything bagel, damn good. But the bread part, it's, those are separate for me, but they're delicious though. She also indicated that family members were never allowed to talk during the dinner. Only him. He could yell and scream about the price of bread over dinner. What happened to this man? That's the question. Why is Rick so mad? Well, he said, quote, I think he was crazy. But how do I challenge my husband? He was six foot four and weighed 300 pounds. And he's enormous. Monster, monster. His friends would tell them about how when he was younger, they'd be all hanging out. He could lift a fucking car up by himself. They said he could go the back of a fucking car by the bumper and lift the fucking thing off the ground. That's how big and he's one of these. There's, there's big and there's like workout big. And then there is I was born. Yeah. Fucking enormous. I have crazy big German bones. And I, you know what I mean? And my wrists are as thick as your ankles. And I can lift a tree stump out of the ground type of big. It's a different type of big. And most of those guys don't look muscular. They're just big. They're just strong as that. Really. Yeah. They're strong though. Fuck. They're so strong. They're strong, man. She said he just lean. He just leaning forward. His just leaning forward and timidated all of us. Yeah. We only had one bathroom in the house and he would just walk in. You couldn't lock it. He would just walk in on the boys and tell them to get out. Get out like I'm shitting right now. I'm busy. Oh, wow. She said you couldn't decide if it was okay or not okay. He was so unpredictable. Hey, not okay. That's in that house, you can't decide anyone coming in when it went not okay. Two seconds it would take them to go. That is not okay. Yeah. You can't figure out if it's not okay, but we can. We can. Now his wife has some insight into possibly what's wrong with him. She believes his mother and grandmother both suffer from psychiatric illness. Okay. And with concerns of potential sexual incest between family members, she said she thinks it's going on. And there's a real good reason for that. At one point Rick told her that when he was younger teenager, an uncle gave him what he described as, quote, elicit chemicals. We don't know what that is. And this is not funny, but it's funny. Made him engage in sexual conduct with, quote, a cow and a dog. Why? I don't fuck. Wow. You know, a cow and a dog. It's, I mean, that means you're taking it from the cow and giving it to the dog. I guess so. Um, those are going to be, it's going to be some weird looking fucking farm animals that pop out of those things. Is he making the cow and the dog do this? Or is he doing? He's shit, he's doing stuff. He doesn't, isn't specific, but some sort of sexual behavior with a cow and a dog. Um, Rick told his wife that he felt as if an evil spirit entered him at that point in his life. Yeah. Yeah. When you're mounting, when you're mounting the family, Akita, I would say at that point, you go, I feel like an evil spirit's coming into me and right now, this is weird, right? I feel like something's wrong now. Yeah. I feel like the something happened. Wow. I'm not going to be the same tomorrow. Oh, for sure. Or really, what's this right now ever, really ever is what I'm looking at. Uh, she also said that Jonas's brother Cabe shared an incident in therapy in 2012 when he observed his father through a small garage window following a fight with their mother. He said his father sharpened a knife on a grinding wheel prior, to throwing it at a picture of himself in the garage. Okay. So the psychology there is wild. She wondered about him having bipolar disorder due to his hostility and agitation as well as recurrent firings or quittings of jobs. She said his unemployment was constant and stated that he had one year he had seven W2s. And then he also prematurely quit one job despite an eligibility for a $5,000 bonus if he just stayed another month. So he does know, which is real instant gratification. Can't wait a month for that. Got to feel that month of sticking it out would would be so much. It wouldn't be worth five grand to me. Fuck. I mean, if you got two kids in your poor, it is, you know, right? Yeah. He's like, I'm not having it. Yeah. It's crazy. You talk to cow before James, because that's true. You know, I mean, yes, but I feel like we're still not the same. I have. But, you know, so sexually, she was expected to pursue him on a nightly basis. And he would then ultimately determine whether it would happen or not or whether he would reject her. But she had at least tried to fuck him every night. And then he would decide whether he felt like whether or not he had a headache. Yeah. She said while he rarely engaged in public displays of affection, he did exhibit inappropriate behavior in front of the children when choosing to do so when they went out on a nightly basis. outings whether camping or staying in hotel rooms, he often initiated sexual intercourse despite their children being present. I'm going to show the kids how I knocked the bottom out of mommy. Come on. Let's go. I'm going to stretch you out in our north face tent with the kids on either side of us either way. They're in sleeping bags. Flanked by children in a tent. Zip up all the way. What, what are you doing, man? In church, he would slap her on the ass in front of the other parishioners, which she considered degrading in church. She described Jonas as doing very well during an elementary school, but his performance began to decline in junior high. In response, his father would punish him and disallow him from going on any mission trips or participating in baseball. She noticed, uh, noted that if she had discipline, cave for misbehavior, uh, Rick would demand that she also punish Jonas, even if he hadn't done anything wrong. So the younger brother left out. Hey, no, I'm yelling at him. Let's say, I mean, this is, he needs to know we care about him too. So I'm going to go punch him around. We don't all get punished. No, one man's mistake. Jonas is like, I didn't know. It was my job to keep him in line. What, you know what I mean? Like, what do we do? It's only to get the jelly donut out of his foot locker. Fuck yeah. During one incident, Jonas was about seven years old. He peed in a sister and in the basement wall of their 1900 farmhouse. No, no, that's the water that comes in the house. That's the bad water. Yeah, you don't want to be in there. In response, quote, he was seven, too, though. I don't know if he knew how the whole system went. I don't care how long he's on, but what do you do? Rick wailed on him so hard and he made him sleep in the bathroom. I went to put covers on him and he was shaking. He's seven. Seven is second grade. Second grade. No. Yeah. Punishment doesn't have to crime anyway. No, Jesus, you definitely have a fucking chat with him. Don't ever do that again. But that's like, yeah, we should stop probably. That's where I brush my teeth. You little shit. Yeah. Hey, fuckhead. Don't do that. That's where you brush your teeth. Yeah. You know, I mean, absolutely. So toward the end of their marital relationship, she described Rick as extremely mean and yelling all the time. She experienced chest and left arm pain whenever she and the children were yelled at. She pursued counseling for her and their children. Rick discontinued their insurance and she had to pay $2,000 in psychological services out of pocket and couldn't afford to go back again. Holy shit. That's insane. When so again, controlling. I don't want you to do, I'll make it so you can't seek medical help. Yeah. You know, that's controlling. When she left the marriage. All he had to do, James, was say, yes, when they called him, I blew up my hand when my mom was still technically married to the man. All he had to do, they called him for the insurance. All he had to say was, yes, that's my wife or yes, that kid is covered on my insurance. He said no and my mom had to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars for this time to get repaired. That's insane. These men exist. They don't even fucking reattach it. They didn't even work together. They just closed it up. That shit should be fucking very cheap. I could have done that for Christ sake. My mom sent the final bill when I was like 19. It took her like 14 years to pay the shit off. Jesus. So when she left the marriage for the final time, she stated that any child support checks were written out directly to the boys and that he merely changed all the locks on the house. He threw all of her belongings out into the barn and removed all of her pictures from the residence. He also refused to pick up the boys for a visitation at her residence and instead waited at the end of the driveway with the expectation that they would just come out and meet him. Now about Jonas here at this point, the kid who made the call. According to his Facebook page, this is how he describes himself, was born at Burnsville Hospital, grew up in a trailer park till I was about three, then moved to a five acre piece of land and lived there from when I was four, at least to at least 14. Then my parents got divorced and I've been living with my mom's parents since August 1st of 2010. And now I plan on going to college for criminology, but I can't decide if I really want to do that or study for TV and computer media. I'm leaning toward criminology. While I'm glad he gave us all that information, he also is using Facebook incorrectly. That's where you. Yes. I mean, this is a, this is apparently like his description of himself, which is a little wordy for a bio, I would say. So they said that more recently, his demeanor progressed from internalizing tendencies of self-loathing and significant dysphoria to externalizing behaviors, including stealing from his grandparents, verbal and physical aggression toward his brother, as well as marked opposition and defiance, which is exactly what will happen if you take a kid and beat the living shit out of him all the time and treat him terribly. You take a dog and you beat the shit out of it. It will bite people. It is shocking when take a dog and pet it. It won't bite people. It's super weird. Very strange. Yeah. Kick a dog a lot. See if it doesn't fight back and fight every dog a lot, by the way, please. But either way, yeah, that's my dogs don't bite people, lie. Right. Yeah. Not mean to them. I've got two giant pussies in that house. Yeah. Have you ever seen a nicer dog than Benny? My Connie Carso, the sweetest dog that's ever existed, 150-pound monster. Yeah. That's it. The vets all, they never take them to the vets. They go, he should like we should use him to like help people who are afraid of big dogs because he's so sweet. So yeah, you just don't kick the shit out of him is how you do it. So he became extremely negative about everything began destroying items provided to him by his mother whenever upset. That's okay. He's like his things and only the ones that his mother gave him because he's mad at her now. He also began engaging and sexting with females despite the absence of normative dating. So he just starts sexting girls that he had their phone number that they weren't in like a, you know, intimate relationship. There's just people he knows. Just given it a shot, really. Just throwing it out there. I mean, seems like he sent it out dick pics, probably. And solicited stuff. Yeah. And was also concerned about making sure he had access to pornography, which seems very normal. That's the first normal thing I've heard in this whole thing for a teenager. When speaking with him on one occasion, he kept mumbling to himself and appeared to be responding to internal stimuli. Also, this is sort of like, yes, like a logical thing. Given behaviors identical to those of his father, the mother told Jonas he was choosing to live with his father, then sent him to live with his father in August of 2013. You want to act like your dad. I'll send you to live with your dad. She said, which is also not a great way to approach this. Obviously, enjoy Rick. Yeah. When she invited Jonas back for Thanksgiving as well as Christmas for a week, his behaviors quickly resurfaced. And he was again, deposited back on his father's doorstep. Jonas informed his mother that his father was drinking alcohol more frequently. And on one occasion called him when he was out of town, his father Rick called Jonas and to quote, ask him if he was jacking off. You jacking off over there. Glad you getting that. Oh, hey, dad. How's it going? What are you doing over there? I just watched a little TV. You jacking off. I mean, yeah, but not now, not on the phone. What was he calling, make sure he was or wasn't. I don't know. Not sure. Talk to the boy. No, it's just a boy. You jacking off. That's my boy. Good job. Keep it going. Although uncertain, she believes Rick's behaviors intensified and increased with frustration for Jonas, due to hypocrisy of claiming Jonas, we get mad at Rick because Rick would claim that he was a Christian while drinking himself into oblivion and surfing various websites that Jonas didn't feel were holy. On the night of this night, of the killing of when he was shot, she felt the need to text him and texted him a long prayer. And of course, this is Christina texted Rick a long prayer and then was obviously contacted by law enforcement going, hey, you didn't kill this guy, did you? Because it texted him a long prayer than somebody shot it. Now, here is Jonas's opinions of his father that we find out. He said that he was always in and out of jobs for being fired. He would have a letter from work. I don't know if he was fired because of his attitude. I don't know all the jobs. Some construction companies, quite a few jobs. In 2009, he got a four year degree at Crown College, but then he was with a roofing company. We were always driving junk vehicles up until then. Dad did a lot of traveling, but he made his own schedule. He was a claims inspector for roof damage. He got a new vehicle every 100,000 miles. Most of the time I traveled with him to the five state area. So they said that he never, he also said that his father never spoke of his side of the family very much. What's he going to say? They made me fuck cows. I mean, there's a mess. They said since the divorce, he definitely stocked up on random brands of alcohol. He had our island counter filled up with vodka and spiced rum and was making wine. Hey, he can go to the festival. That's nice. He could enter it and would store it in the basement. He had a 16 gallon keg in the garage. He drank from a mason jar with vodka, orange juice, and seven up. Good. Christ, Rick. Wow, Rick, you don't wonder why he's so fucking flighty. Yeah, you're drinking off of that shit in the morning. You don't want to go to work either? No, shit. I wouldn't want to go either. So the original idea was that the kids were going to live with mom and then go see the dad every other weekend. But he said, Cabe stopped going after a trip with my dad. He said my dad was being really weird and he wouldn't go with him unless I was there. He never gave the details of what happened. I still saw him quite a bit, but it slowed down. I was living with my mom and spending some time with friends. And then he said he was so weird when it came to my friends, he was supposed to pay $500 in child support, but only paid half. But he wasn't afraid to spend money on himself. He bought a Jeep and $3,000 in upgrades. He remodeled the house and built a fish house, a fish house from scratch. Fish tank, fish tank. Maybe he's called it a fish house, which I, that's it. I knew when I've never heard that before. Have you ever heard of a fish house? A fish house. When I was, when I was building a dog terrarium tank, I was going to build a dog tank this weekend. I thought that'd be great. My cat could use a tank. She gets all around it into something. Let's keep her if we can keep her in one place. It'd probably be better fish house. He did two extensive remodels and roofing and put on a new garage. Door. I helped him with that, with all of that. I kind of enjoyed the woodwork for some reason. He wouldn't spend money on me. It was tough to get a job when you live three miles from town and had to ride a bike. He said he bought me a cheap phone plan and told me I'm just doing this to be nice. Okay. He would be nosy about me talking to people. He said it was his job to know the who, what, and where about me and anyone I was talking to. Which that can be considered for parenting. Up to a certain point. I had a friend come over to my dad's and I would go with him to my cousins in the cities. One chick I was talking to from way up in the corner of the state. He would approach me in a nagging manner. He would always have a cow with him. You got to be very specific when you say have a cow exactly what he's talking about. That could be that could mean either freak out or he's reverting to childhood. Fucking memories here. Yeah, he can't have friends or when he's having a cow. He's having a cow because it's gross. They don't want to see that. He brings a cow right in the living room. He would have a cow if I was talking to other girls. So he said he had a Twitter page and a Facebook page and he had YouTube and stuff like that. He said I moved in last August with my dad because my mom cost me out over a stupid thing on the computer. We were living with my grandparents and they were out of town. I got a message to go boating as I was shutting down the computer. The conversation with his mother was like boiling water and it got hotter. I asked, can I just finish this message? She was okay with it. She said I was paranoid because she wanted me to shut it down. It was hard for me to to get out because of no transportation. The conversation got pretty bad. She cussed back at me and I shut off the computer and asked my dad to come grab me. She stayed in there for 20 minutes for me to go to sleep. Okay. She also said that me and Cabe's education or he said he'd always blame my mom for no reason. And that and that site wasn't educating well enough. He would just throw fits at her even after the split up. The negativity of his mentality came up like a Roman candle two months after the split up. His negativity got got worse and worse as the years progressed. I remember mom telling me that even when they were dating, he was a jerk. He got married because she got knocked up. All right. That's it. She was thinking that she should have left him when I was two. Now, Jonas, otherwise he said that he's into girls. When asked about dating, he said, quote, not professionally. Do you date? He said not professionally. Then he said, quote, well, probably one professionally and one last August. Does he mean like, like he rented a woman or does he mean like, not like on the regular? I can't talk. I don't know what that means. I don't know either that as a thing. Me neither. That's what I was confused. The first official one was last August when she came to my dad's place every Friday. My dad was dating someone with two kids, a daughter and a younger son. We did some making out, but it was going some kind of fast for me and I got paranoid. That was some kind of fast. That was most of what she wanted out of me. It was paranoid me, paranoid as a verb. He speaks wildly. He said, wait a minute here too, because the psychiatrist comes up with some real odd terms that he uses later. He said, I could feel the relationship from there was getting dull and wasn't going anymore. The more time we spent together, she wanted more and he said that she was getting too close. They said, did you have any sexual behavior and he said, no, my dad was always around. He never trusted me with girls. He actually limited me to come out. He wanted me in his side at his side all the time. He wouldn't let me make my own decisions. They said, well, what's the most you did with her? And he said, quote, well, this was he's not Nick go to John because he didn't say all three. He said, just touching your top side. That is so weird. How weird is that to say top side? Top side, who the fuck has ever said that? Dude, how many guys have we talked to so many? So many as a kid growing up, you talk to so many guys and the subject is always what you're doing with girls and all that. No one ever said, I touched your top side. I never once heard a human being with penis say that ever. No, if one of my friends said I touched her top side and say, no, you didn't. Top side, look on top of her head. What are you talking about? Yeah, you didn't touch her at all. Did you fucking weirdo who talks like that? That's so strange. Just touching her top side. I'm uncomfortable with what people are doing in relationships. Part of me wanted to be that intimate, but a bigger part of me knew there was more to relationships than that. My dad found out and wouldn't let it go. You touched the top side. He got pissed. He's like, how dare you? When it was just me and him, he would say she's too young for you. The parent lecture he would give me. I felt bad for her. He didn't have a good dad. Her mom was, quote, a little bitchy. Sorry for swearing, he says her 10 year old brother was fun. He was kind of a loose wingnut. He was a fun kid. I broke up with her by text in September. She wasn't very happy about that. Nice way to go. You fucking immature dick. And he said I didn't plan on dating for a while because that was just getting a little tiring. Just overwhelming for him. He was homeschooled until the 10th grade. Which is the top side explains a lot of stuff. Not just the top side. Yeah, all sorts of shit. When he attended it, then he attended a charter school, which in even prairie, which can be good or terrible. That could be the worst. Could be the worst or really good. This was Eagle Ridge Academy. He reported broad average range performance without retention or received special education services. He described homework demands as, quote, as much as mom felt me and my brother needed to complete. As much as mom is in using some special, some special ed classes. Yes, because when, whenever most of this, because someone, whenever we say this happens, people go, why are we doing others? There's always two examples of anecdotes are not evidence. Stop it. Thank you. For the most part, when kids, if they're in homeschooling the whole time and then put in a, in a public or whatever kind of school and say the 10th grade, they're not, it's just not, they're not at the same place. And it's just, it can't be because you're not doing the exact lesson plans that they're doing. So you're never going to be in the same place. You're certainly capable, but it's going to take a little bit. Yeah. They said due to homeschooling, he had no opportunity to participate in extracurricular activities. And remember, when he wasn't doing well in homeschooling, they wouldn't let him play baseball, which was his one outlet to the outside world. He denied any homecoming or prom attendant stating, quote, I wasn't in the dancing. Just not annoyed. So he said, I thought about college, but it would help if I had a little bit of dough and a, and a vehicle. He still doesn't even have a driver's license. He thought about military enlistment, but didn't want to do it. He had, he worked at McDonald's for two months last summer before relocating to his dad's place. When asked about a chemical use history later, he denied any use of illicit chemicals, but reported on one occasion, consuming, quote, five cores light beers while hunting. He's had five beers once. And he said, in an afternoon, that's a lot. That's a lot of drink. Fuck yeah, he said, my orientation was just tampered a little bit with my vision. So I quit. So that drunk, I felt drunk and I was like, that's too much. Like that. Yeah, your vision gets a little blurry and you get a little wobbly. The first time I had six beers, I was pretty fucked up. Yeah. He said that about his dad, quote, he pretty much did abuse us quite a control freak. He didn't want us to get out of the house. He wanted us to be sitting ducks. It almost seemed like we were chained to the house. Mostly he put it on her, meaning his mother. Nothing was ever right when it comes to my mom and education. or cooking. He was always yelling at her about everything that was made. Also, finances, he would blame all the money spending on her. You brought, you bought bread. You fucking, you loose bitch. Wow. Even with the wardrobes when it came to buying clothes, he always picked them out for my mom. Even after the divorce, he was picking one time. I wanted to get a pair of jeans and he complained about me wanting to pick a certain brand. Okay. So, by the way, the 9-1-1 call. This is all, this is the guy lying on the floor that we've discussed. And this is the dynamic of the kids sitting in the house with him. Who's making this call? Yeah. So the police arrive. There he is on the floor. Blankets covering his body. They determined, obviously he's dead. Like we said, there's skull fragments and brain matter. The attending officer observed a small bullet hole in the lower right side of a global, a glass double French patio door. Okay. Now, when they speak to Jonas, he said that he was in his second story bedroom watching movies when he heard a noise that sounded like a gunshot and glass breaking came down called my 1-1. So they said, okay. Another cop said he noticed that a gun cabin at containing multiple firearms near the kitchen and living room was there. So while waiting for the medical examiner, the cops were talking to Jonas and Jonas said, I don't know how I'll get by with this. Further inquiry. Why'd you say that? He said, I'm just getting used to the idea that he's not around anymore. All right. Just getting, it's been 10 minutes. I'm just getting used to it. Sorry. He said his day, he ate supper at 530, went upstairs to his bedroom, watched several movies, then at 1030, he heard a noise that sounded like a gunshot going through a window, quote, like on TV. He reported coming downstairs and that's that. He said he looked at his father for a while, then went outside to catch his breath. Stared at his dad, then went outside, then he contacted 9-1-1 and sat in his father's truck outside until the officers arrived, which it's freezing out. It's early January and Minnesota. So, um, he described his father as depressed since his parents divorced and increased alcohol use and said that he told the cops he was viewing dating sites. He described him as, quote, mentally adjurked to everybody also. And he described his dad as being a little bit weird after he moved back in with him, specifically his father's Roman Catholicism being a little over the top and saying his religious beliefs were, quote, really messed up. And also this father called himself a Christian, but really wasn't. Now, the medical examiner comes, so the cop says, I'm going to go talk to the medical examiner now. You go sit in our squad car until we get back. And Jonas said, quote, I wish I could. And they said, you wish you could what? And he said, I don't know. Part of me wants to go home to my grandparents. And part of me wishes I could go to sleep and then wake up and this never happened. Okay. So they take pictures. They turn the body over to see if there's a weapon under the body. See if maybe the suicide and the gun got trapped under there. However, no fire are means. This is definitely homicide here. So they go outside the house to secure it. And Jonas is sitting outside. A deputy sits in the truck with Jonas. And they talked to him and they ask him to sit in the squad car to talk a little more. And you know, he said that, you know, read him his rights and I said, we're going to talk to you. So we have to read you the rights and everything like that. He said, you know, he had, Jonas said, yeah, I understand. It's like on TV shows. I get it. So he said that, you know, after, after Jonas spoke about the family situation, the cop expressed sympathy saying, obviously, you're kind of in a crappy situation here. And then describe the forensic analysis that law enforcement will conduct at the scene, including, we're going to look for blood spatter on your clothes, gunshot residue on your hands. We have to do all this stuff. And the cop said, I think both of us are getting a picture of life wasn't pleasant here. And you're not in a good situation. Okay. And we can understand that. And other people will understand that. Okay. But if something happened between you and your dad, you know, tonight, more than what you're telling us, the most important thing is now is the time to tell us and be honest about that. He said later would be too late in that people respect honesty. True. He said, we're not going to disrespect for respect to you. You'll never be happy until you get this off your chest, Jonas. So he said, okay, woke up at 8.30 a.m. Dad has gone to work already. I brought wood in for the wood burner because their furnace isn't working and they rely on the wood stove for heat in Minnesota in the winter. Wow. He then went on Facebook for a while when he spelled food cooking. He went downstairs to eat with the discovery that his father had eaten and was watching. Dad made himself dinner. But he ate too. After eating, he returned to his room and watched movies until 10.30 when he heard a pop like when a noise on like on TV, when a bullet goes through the glass. He went downstairs to investigate. And he said his dad's brains were splattered all over the floor and pillow. He didn't. He said he didn't know what to do. So he checked his father's pulse and then he went outside to get some air and then he remembered he had a cell phone in his back pocket and he called 911. The officers asked about the firearms in the house and Jonas confirmed that his dad owned a 20 gauge pump action shotgun used for bird hunting. He said he had familiarity with guns and there's a lot of guns in the house and they went hunting a lot. Jonas also stated that his father blamed his mother for the divorce, but it was his father's fault. He said his father was acting weird. His religious views were all screwed up. His father's more of a probation officer. He goes through all this and then they're telling him, okay, well, we're we're going to do all this testing. And there are some inconsistencies considering like the skull fragments that lay between the body and the broken pain of the French doors. We need to know what happened in there. And then Jonas says, quote, what happened in there was me. Oh, Jonas, Jonas said was me. He told the officers like he came down to get some water, saw his dad sleeping on the floor. He said he didn't know why he did it, but he went to the gun cabinet and got a rifle, but claimed he, you know, he said, I don't know what I did or why I was doing it, but I did it to him. He said he just they told him, yeah, we're going to check and he went, all right, fine. It was me. Fuck it. He said he received a silver bolt action, 300 rifle from the gun cabinet, some cartridges from a drawer and then, quote, took his time walking in the living room and stood in front of the wood stove and, quote, took his life. Jesus. He denied ever experiencing rage, but he says he just snapped in response to his father's treatment of him. He's sleeping though. That's not the time to do it. He confirmed about killing his father while up and he said he think he thought about killing his father while up in the bedroom, saying it was, quote, the only idea I could come up with. And he also said after he, he's a fucked up kid. After he shot his father, he waited about five minutes to call 911, make sure he was dead. So yeah, he said he did that. He said he, after he shot him the second round through the bottom pane of the French doors in the living room, he returned the rifle to the gun cabinet, placed the shell casings in a bucket in the basement. They said, well, how do you feel right now? And he said somewhat relieved that I don't have to deal with my father anymore. I feel great. I feel better. He said he wasn't thinking straight. He, they asked if you discharge the weapon a single time. He replied no twice. He bolted out the first round and put a second round in the rifle and discharged a second round out of the glass door. He said I do fully and completely understand the consequences that do come up, you know, obviously. So they take him, they let him, they let him piss out in the yard. And then they take him to the police station at 415 a.m. And he said looking back at the spiritual person I had become, I look back at it like the movie was just getting over the third Star Wars movie. I was going to get water and he was watching Star Wars is what he's saying. And go to he wasn't making a Star Wars metaphor, which could have, could have been and go to bed or hit the hay. It's slowly, but it's psychologically like my, like my, like I wasn't totally myself. It was like I was wiped out. It was like I had no physical control. My mind was wiped. I went downstairs and I set the cup on the counter for some reason. I looked in and I saw I'm snoring. I looked over in the computer room. He had a sheet rock wall by the gun cabinet. I looked back at it and it's like my mind was empty. At that time, I was a doer and not a thinker. Okay. The gun cabinet was not locked. My dad locked it up before he was dating, before when he was dating. It was like I was in a dream. It's kind of hard to control things in a dream. It's like you wake up. But when you wake up and I didn't wake up until I was in a squad car, I had no interest in doing that. I'm not like that, but the stress with my dad and peer pressure, you know, the kids, peer pressure. All the kids saying you should kill your parents. All my friends were always like, why are you shooting your dad? And I was like, ah, nah, they kept at it though. You know, eventually took a shot at him. We'll make a, a grabbing bomb. And then afterwards go home and kill your dad. Kill your father. Obviously there's a lot of peer pressure. It didn't surprise me that he wouldn't change after the divorce. So he said the gun was not loaded. The ammunition was below it. I got the gun, put the ammo in, walked into the living room. I remember fighting myself psychologically, like hearing things going back and forth. The negative side of me took over. Spiritually speaking, my born again Christian kind of thing, I wasn't as prepared spiritually speaking. I wasn't spending time in the word and pushed it aside, and I could kind of tell there was some kind of demonic behavior in my head. I was trying to fight it off, but it didn't last long. He said, they said, what do you mean demonic behavior? He said, I kind of hear it a little bit. It's kind of like a distorted, like you hear it in your head, and I could feel it. And he said, I was flicking the safety back and forth, and I tried to keep my finger off the trigger guard, but it didn't last very long. I looked at it as if it was me and my actual self was fighting off what I was pushing me forward in my head. I tried to keep the gun from aiming. I pointed it toward the ceiling. He said, I noticed when I got the gun, I kept looking back at the gun cabinet in the computer desk, and I blacked out, and then I was in the living room, and then I blew away like the wind. I remember seeing the flash coming from the muzzle. I remember my ears blanking out and ringing. I slowly started recovering. I put the gun back and I took him at, I took him, and I looked at him a little bit. I wasn't really thinking. I glared at him. Most of me had come back when I thought about turning myself in. I dial 911. I did that outside and sat in the truck. So, there you go. Interesting. He said, I probably should have been more hesitant in my statements, but I just felt I needed to tell the truth then. Yeah. So that's what he said. And he said, I had a million different things going on in my head. Part of me wanted to just stand there, and then I couldn't just decide what to do, and part of me wanted to panic, and I just, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, could we move on, he says. Can we talk about something else? Anything else? He said also, later on, he said that part of him was telling him to get my revenge. He described having something in his head that shouldn't have been there, and he was having a hard time fighting it, and it was winning me over. I was having a hard time resisting it. He said, the thoughts in his head, the intensity of the thought was thicker and level went up as the day went by. He thought of the rifle and admitted that he was having a hard time battling it off and indicated listening to music before he put in his movie wasn't beneficial. He denied ever becoming angry where he wanted to kill somebody, and stated, it wasn't me with claims, with claims these thoughts were on him. He said, he's panicking inside, trying to keep myself from running around like a lunatic at that minute. So they have him sign a consent form, they look at his phone and do all of that, and they also charge him with premeditated first degree murder. - Fuck yeah. - Intentional second degree murder, and second degree murder while committing second degree assault. - Oh boy. - Now he wants his confession thrown out when he comes to trial. Which I mean, yeah, that's a big part of it. So I mean, it's not where I said I did it. - No, there's tons of physical evidence too. I mean, it's because prints are on the gun, which they could be anyway, 'cause he's used it to hunt, but I mean, it's only, he's the only one there. So he tries to do that, saying that he challenging whether he had the capacity to wave his Miranda rights. Well, he's an 18 year old sane person, so you should be able to. The psych evaluation from this whole thing, we find a lot, there's this psych evaluation. We could have talked in detail about his Rorschach test. You understand that, if we had the time, I am so interested in that shit. They said Jonas during a second session was again socially stilted with magnification of atypically, of atypicality, while discussing his social history and events that led to his legal charge. He again referred to quote humans, including himself, often in the third person, as if not part of the human race, with coexisting cognitive inefficiency while discussing abstract interpersonal concepts. - Oh, you can. - Humans, other humans, he would say. He often issued the odd phrase of quote a taste for various activities and experiences. It's very specific work of language. All be its subtle, he again exhibited intermittent instances of concrete thinking. For example, he told this writer, his father earned a four year degree. When this writer revisited this information and confirmed his father's completion of a bachelor's degree, he queried, how did you know that? When he told a four year degree is referred to as a bachelor's degree, he responded, "Oh, is that what that means?" I thought you were just ready for fucking, for the ladies. I thought you were ready for action out there. - Time to touch top side. - Time to hit the strip club. Look at some top sides. He continued to answer questions. During the unstructured Worshack inkblot test, he failed to identify normal visual pursesps and exhibited extreme latency, aka color shock, when faced with chromatic demands of several plots. His pursesps were simplistic and without normative human interaction or movement. They kind of want you to tell a story on those. And if you just go, "Oh, it's just that." And you don't have a story that's, you don't have a complete, they're seeing how complete your mind is essentially. - Right, he's a man. - Not just about the inkblots. Yeah, it's about your ability to put it into words. He does an IQ test as well. And his verbal IQ is 85. His performance IQ is 96 and full scale IQ of 89. So a little below average. 90 starts the average range here. He also said, "I was a bit of a night owl, up past 12 AM, a little bit of the taste for the curious on the edge, but not that far." He said, "I've always wanted to be the center of attention, but the opportunity would leave me." Yeah, so let's go on to this. He says also that eight critical items here. These are questions, true or false or sometimes or whatever that they ask a person. Nothing goes my way, he said true. Nobody ever listens to me, true. Other kids hate to be with me sometimes. I feel like my life is getting worse and worse. Often, no one understands me sometimes. I feel sad sometimes. I hear voices in my head that no one else can hear sometimes, and I hate school sometimes. But besides the voices, that's every 16-year-old is what you just described. Yeah, the voices are the frightening part. That's the part that's pretty fucked up. Jonas further exhibits mild to moderate impairment and his ability to think logically and coherently. Specifically, he's less capable than most people of coming to reasonable conclusions about relationships between events and maintaining a connected flow of associations in which ideas follow each other in a comprehensible manner, which is kind of what the Rorschach just kind of shows do. As a result, there's two occasions when his adaption is compromised by arbitrary and circumstantial reasoning and moments in which scattered thoughts confuse him and potentially others. He denied any primary stressors with the exception of the current legal charge. He does fail to mention at all to the psychiatrist or something that could possibly help him out that his mother in 1997, December, was diagnosed with an aggressive large cell lymphoma with the removal of a great fruit-sized tumor from beneath her sternum and radiation treatments to treat spots on her lung. In 2009, she was diagnosed with breast cancer and required a lumpectomy and radiation treatment. So that is traumatizing for a kid to see your mom going through that stuff. Yeah, he also talks about his chores. He had to go get wood for the wood stove because the furnace didn't work half the time. He described his leisure activities as riding his bike, watching television, including, quote, anything I had a taste for and getting songs and movies on his computer. So they talked about suicide and he said, I kind of almost tried it once at my grandparents somewhere in 2011. I was lying in my bed and I was gonna try with a knife. It was like there was an invisible wall and I couldn't bring the knife down. I was that dead mentally. I just don't have the taste for it. Yeah, he also says he doesn't have any tattoos now, but, quote, maybe in the future, a peace sign or something that represents our nation like an eagle or a spiritual cross. Those are all very different things here. Then they said, how do you feel about your father's death and he said, quote, I'm pretty relieved. I feel a bit better now that he's not here to hurt me or Cabe or my mom anymore. That hurt for the last 10 years. It's not there anymore, not so bad. He said, there's a big part of me that's going to miss not hunting and fishing anymore. I think he's not suffering anymore from what he was suffering from. I keep thinking it might hit me at some point, but I think I'm progressing each day mentally speaking. Anyway, so that's what's going on. Jonas has a lot of fucking issues. Now, also, there's money involved here that just comes up. Of course. Prior to a hearing, his lawyer says that he plans to use his portion of his father's $850,000 life insurance payout to hire private attorneys. The assistant attorney general said he shouldn't be able to do that because it's a legal Minnesota for someone to benefit financially from the murder of someone else. And they also found out that Jonas found his father's will on a computer in the house prior to the murder. So he knew he was in for half of that $850. Because his brother gets the other half. They report, there's also a phone conversation where he told his mother about the will before she told him to only talk about it with his attorney. Okay. Now, his younger brother, Cabe, is now the other beneficiary on the will and he's going to end up getting it all. The confession is allowed in the trial. An expert testifies for him that he was quite socially delayed and had a low IQ, low to average prosecutors, though, say that his statements were voluntary and he could choose not to acquiesce to mail authority figures because they said, basically, if you get a bunch of cops that are older than him and they tell him to confess, he'll confess because the acquiesce is to mail authority figures and they're like, well, he's an adult and didn't have to. So, yeah, they said after carefully considering these arguments, the officers conduct and the totality of the circumstances, we conclude that Nelson's confessions were voluntary. And he's fucked. Verdict comes in very guilty, ah, yeah, very, very guilty. Sensing comes down, you, sir, may fuck off life in prison without parole at 18 at 18. That's. Oh, I don't know if I like that. Um, if you went out and, like, picked a girl off the street and raped her and cut her throat or something, I go, yeah, fine, but whatever, but for his dad with all this shit going on and all of you say, let's let him go in 20 years. Let's let him think about it. Let's, let's give him 25 years to think about it and then let him out that what do you say? Let's give him a chance in 25. Yeah. I'm not gonna, I mean, I, we don't make fun of the victim's victim's family. This guy sounded like kind of a dick and it's everybody that encountered him said it. Bad guy. Abusive and everything else. His direct appeal is denied. He goes for post-conviction relief under the, the, the, the eighth amendment is what he's going for here. Boy, do I know a lot about that because I've read all this shit on this. But more than I want to know, basically that says that you can't sentence anybody to life in prison who's under 18 and they're like, well, he was 18 and seven days and they're like, well, we have numbers for a reason. And they come up with a bunch of things saying that he's not, not every 18 year old is the same. And there are justices who dissent on the affirmed conviction here. Oh. They, not every 18 year old is the same. Yeah. It's not universal. Yeah. They said that it's, it's certainly not the one guy, where is it here? This guy, one of the judges just basically says, you know, I dissent because this is not every kid's the same at all. And you'll get an 18 year old that's, you know, works construction as a beard and everything else. You have an 18 year old that looks 12 and they're, they act different. It's very different. They said though the, the rule, however, is clearly limited to juvenile offenders under the age of 18 at the time of the offense. And yeah, so you can keep fucking off. It's affirmed. And that's that. He's in prison still still there. They said his lawyer said the courts decision to uphold the harsh sentence. In this case, reflects an overly rigid, inflexible view of the Supreme Court's eighth amendment jurisprudence and an inconsistent application, Minnesota standards for defining adulthood. There you go, everybody. So Joe is shit. That's it. That's the shots. The damn. That's the whole thing. He's there. Nothing to do about it. Stuck there. He's as appeals are denied and just shot him on the floor. That's it. Just aside, he's had enough. So anyway, there you go. If you enjoy that episode or any of our shows, get on whatever app you're listening on. Give us five stars. That flicks thumbs up. 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