The New Year's Day special

This episode of Shameless is brought to you by Squarespace, the all-in-one platform that helps you build a beautiful website and truly launch your passion, project, or business. Hello and welcome to Shameless. Hi guys. Happy New Year. Happy New Year. This episode is dropping on January 1. We are officially in 2020. This is officially. And of course, we're recording this in 2026, so we know what this new year feels like. Oh, this is a live recording. We are not coming to you from the past. No, actually we're recording this. It's like we're a couple of days out from finishing the work here. Yeah, let's set the scene, shall we? It's about 37 degrees outside. Zara decided for lunch we should get sushi. And I should have paused and went, is that a smart idea? Because Zara's so full of smart ideas, 99% of the time. I didn't think about it. And then halfway through the walk I was like, I feel a wee bit dizzy. And now post sushi, I feel way worse than I did pre-sushi. And I hold you personally responsible. I also hold myself accountable to that. What were we thinking? It was a long walk. It was really long. The line was long? Yeah, the whole thing. So as you can imagine, we're in great spirits. It's the afternoon and it's 37 degrees in Melbourne and we barely have hate, yeah. I'm also really worried I'm going to cry. I think post walk, I'm like, oh, I'm in a bit of emotional, you know, when you feel a bit tired or a bit warm, I'm like, I feel a bit emotional and I've prided myself in the last couple of months of being able to rock up to this podcast and be sun shiny and happy. And now I'm like, God, quite the load to carry because we want to start the new year off on a happy note, right? Well, I don't know if that's necessarily true. I think we want to start the new year off in a thoughtful way. And so I think you can be as emotional or take this in as many directions as you would like to. The rules are yours. But for those who may have not listened to one of these episodes before, what we do in this episode is we recap what our words of the year were and kind of talk about whether we lived up to those words. We talk about our resolutions. We talk about whether we lived up to those resolutions and set new ones and talk about what we want from next year. The reason obviously you are sitting across from me, nervous that you may be a bit serious because your year clearly ended up much harder than anyone anticipated, mostly yourself. Yes. This will be an interesting experiment. And when we get to doing our or setting rather our 2026 words, I'm not sure if I'm going to have a resolution, not to be the card before the horse, but going through a really tricky year, if anything has made me a little nervous because I don't want to tempt the universe or tempt fate or kind of, I don't know, end up disappointed this time next year. Completely fair enough. You can make these rules whatever you want them to be. I'm gun shy. Would you like to start or would you like to? Can you start please? I can start. I can do it every once. So we set last year, you set one word for yourself for the year and three resolutions. I came in with one word and then you will like where are your resolutions. And I remember saying I don't have resolutions and I think we created them on a spot and I had two. Okay. So should we start with my word of the year? Yeah. Do you remember what it was? Yeah. It was open-minded. Yeah, because we really have lived out the year going back to your word. I have tried. This is the first year I've tried super, super hard to like, leave that word, to be that word. And I have found my year much richer for it. Yeah. I want to play you a snippet from our last episode. I haven't listened to this and I've always put all of these snippets together for us. Oh my god. Belly, thank you. We can cue the time. Cue the times and then we'll discuss. My word is open-minded. Ah, I love that. I think it's just being like open-minded to various things. I think I have and I think you do two some really specific goals for next year. And I want to be really open-minded if the goals don't end up, you know, happening. I think I want to be really open-minded about if our reality looks different and open-minded to that possibly being a good thing. Wow. Cryptic. I know. Unfortunately, still maybe cryptic. Well, here's what I can't. I don't have to be cryptic about anymore. Part of that word, yes, was specific goals we had. And I'll get to whether we hit those goals in a second. But a huge part of that word was us knowing that you were pregnant and not saying that I'm like and me being open-minded about what my role was in this business, being able to work without you being open-minded about how to run this with you on maternity leave. So that was a huge portion of it, but we just weren't saying that on-mic at that time, because you had an answer to pregnancy. I didn't end up announcing it until I was 30 weeks pregnant, which is so wild looking back on. That snippet is so eerie. Do you feel like you achieved it? Because I certainly feel like you did. Yeah, well, I hear that and it was like, I really just want to make sure if I don't get the goals that I want to get, I will be fine and good will come of it. And it feels so strange to sit here and be like, I don't think some of our business goals were achieved this year. And I feel in a really good place with it. Well, isn't that so fucking strange? It's so interesting because I don't want people to hear you say that and go, "Oh, the business isn't doing very well. The business is doing better than ever." We just had lofty ideas for things. There was a particular project we were working on. Yeah, no, it is true. It is important to be clear about the fact that the business is doing better than ever. There was one project that you and I kind of had our site set on and it didn't end up in the place we thought it would. Yeah. And I knew that I was pinning a lot of myself to that. A lot of my identity. I knew I was, I knew that I don't like failing nor to you. And I really wanted to make sure that if I got to this point in the year that I still felt good about things and I was able to still look at them positively. The project fell apart? Yeah, it fell apart. And yet I would say we are both feeling the best we ever have about work. Yeah. Oh my god, it's so nice. It's weird. It's almost like pasts are and you what present days are and need it. I think I really knew. And I think if you've listened to any of our shame or episodes over the last week or two and I don't know if this is going to come up in future shame or but I keep referencing the fact that I just don't want to be in a washing machine anymore. I don't want my emotions to constantly be at the behest of external factors, particularly work or anything else. Like I just want to pull myself out of the washing machine. And I think I did have a bit of a premonition at the start of the year, which was I know I am susceptible to that. And I know that I can make work a big part of my identity and I think we both can. I don't think you build this if it's not part of your identity. And so if something does fall apart, like a project you're working on, how do I make sure that I have the wherewithal to withstand that and keep leading and keep running this business. That you still have a really strong foundation within you to kind of revert back to or source comfort or I don't know stability from. And I think I found myself this year talking a lot about like there's been a couple of things that have come out of my mouth a lot, which is like I think we're breaking up with our beliefs. The way we've done things is not always going to be the way we continue to do things here. And also I keep asking myself not just in a work capacity but also personally is that true? I think is that assumption true? Is that true? Is like yeah, what if it fails but also what if it doesn't? Just really, if I feel myself having a strong reaction to something in interrogating it. Asking the opposite question too. Yeah. And I found that really handy. Because it's almost like you're then opening up a window in your mind to go, okay, well, I've got this belief, but what happens if I opened my mind up to the other one? Yeah. Like is there enough compelling evidence for the alternative that I could change my mind about this? Completely. How did you feel now that I'm kind of in the process of coming back into the business more deeply? How do you feel you went with me going on, Matley, given that that word of the year was so much informed by our working dynamic changing? Yeah, well, it was really funny because like that was informed as you said by our working dynamic changing, but it basically changed immediately. Like from January. It's really been so nice having you come back in because I said this to you over lunch the other day, like the two happiest work days I had last week. Well, like the happiest of the year because we were back working together. I think probably people wouldn't really realise how little we've worked together this year because we're always on the show and that's what they say. Well, it's like that classic thing of, oh, misses back from Matley because I'm doing shameless podcast twice a week. When it's like, no, no, no, I'm choosing to do that. That's actually like, I actually don't even really, I know it's wild, I don't actually really consider recording the podcast to be work. Like it's such a hobby and I enjoy it so much. The work is like all the meetings and all the business management that comes outside of what you see on the show. Yeah. And so I don't think I actually realise when you came back in and had a full day in the office. I reckon we've had maybe two full days in the office together this entire year. So to answer your question, I know I've been bouncing around it. I'm proud of myself. I really am. It's like, I think we had a conversation early on in shame or as well as at the start, I felt a bit, oh God, we've actually never really worked with that each other. Like how much can I do this by myself? How much can I trust myself? It's so much easier. We have just found this flow over the last seven and a half years of really trusting our joint gut and trusting so implicitly us as together. Our business coach, Ami, it's funny because the year prior maybe, maybe 2024, Ami had pointed out to us that we are co-dependent and we needed to work on that and then all of a sudden we're thrown into a situation where we can't be co-dependent. No, it was exactly that and I had felt very co-dependent. It wasn't until we weren't working together that I realised in practice how that co-dependency manifests. And no, I'm really proud of myself. I think the business is in a good spot and importantly, I am in a good spot with the business. No, you smashed it. You objectively by all metrics. That's why I don't want anyone listening to what we've been saying to think that it hasn't been a smash success because this year has been by far the most successful year of the business and one of us has been running it, it's been new and you've killed it. Think, yeah, well, thanks. It looks deeply uncomfortable. Yeah, I think it's just nice. I think it's, I really tried this year's all to be like, I can do these things and I'm good at them and that's like a fun thing to say. You're very good. I'm good at this and that's a good thing and I'm proud of myself. I'm proud of you. Do you want to do your word of the year or do you want to? Yeah, my word of the year was present. Play the tape, DJ, jazz. Mine is present as in I want to be really present in the moment where I'm at at that because I think when you've got big things on the horizon, it's easy to get very lost in the what-ifs and the kind of hypothetical scenarios and all that. I want to be really present in my life at the moment and I want to really be when I'm with someone even down to like being on my phone or whatever. I want to I want to wholly give myself to the people that matter the most to me. Yeah, obviously what was going on for me when I said that was um, I was pregnant so I would have been probably 22 weeks pregnant when I said that and obviously I was thinking about being present with my baby and knowing I'd be going on mat leave and knowing I wanted to be present when I was here. It's so funny though because mum, we found out mum had brain tumors on Jan 14 and I remember thinking oh god like what a random word to have landed on a couple of weeks prior like being present's never been more important because we found out within a week that mumps or maybe a week and half that mum's condition was terminal and she probably would pass away within the year or maybe it's slightly longer so it's hard to look back on I think I knew I was going to struggle with this episode and the reason I'm finding this like tricky emotionally is how much changes in a year that version of me was saying that 12 months ago and my life looks so different now and it looks better in some ways like I love my daughter so much she's just been like the brightest light but knowing that I said all that not knowing that mum was going to die and that I was going to spend the majority of the year alongside my siblings caring for her when she was really ill. It's scary like I actually I used to love doing these episodes so much and I want to find a way to love it again but I get so nervous now as to what the next year is going to bring and like what I don't know is around the corner. How much mental and emotional bandwidth do you have to kind of deep that? Oh yeah let's do it. I guess I want to know do you think back and hear that voice and you're like oh my god that person had no idea. Yeah I think so and I think that's how I feel at the moment even when I'm working through with my psychologist a lot. This mentality that I've adopted since mum fell sick of oh god a span is about to come in again like it what's the next banner? Life is so unpredictable what's going to happen next and that's really common with people who have been through something really distinctly traumatic or have lost a loved one or who are grieving. This concept of everything can be sun shiny and then one day like the biggest storm cloud of your life rolls in. I think the way the year has looked has been really interesting in that mum got diagnosed in January then we went into treatment and my brothers went and got moved forward to April I gave birth in May, winter hit and I really struggled for a little bit with just feeling depressed and feeling really down and then we had a couple of good months with mum post treatment where she did really well and we were going away for weekends and stuff like that and able to really relish each other and then the end of the year has been really tough like it's been really traumatic and she passed away in late November and then her funeral was in December so I think that's the other part of this doing this episode it's like so many memories have now been encapsulated in 2025 literally January to December and so looking forward to 2026 it's very hard to now divorce myself of this idea that the literal year could be tied up with really awful things or really traumatic things and it could like it's hard to not look at 2026 and be like how will that be defined? Now it could be defined really negatively again. Yeah like what is the story that starts at the start of the year and what is the story that plays out over the course of the year and every year therefore has like a name and a brand and a feeling and a. Because the year prior was January that I started investigating my pain. Yeah I found out I had one ovary did IVF at the end of the year got embryos and I think it was November December so again it's really hard to like I had already found 2024 quite difficult. I know and then I remember doing this episode last year I'm like God it was a rough year and I think I cried when I heard myself again but it's like oh it was really tough but then now I'm looking at life going oh that actually 24 was so hard 2025 was way harder which is why you will win taps that I don't know or this year I should say. I just want to really calm you. I want predictability. Look I can't sit across from you and be like you will have that because I think there's nothing more frustrating than someone that clearly can't predict the future. Yeah can't you? Well no no perhaps you are empowered to take keeping this as serious as it is. I just know that like what you have been armed with this year like you didn't ask for it you didn't want it but the skills and the strengths that you've been armed with will make everything else that comes your way so much easier like you do not sweat the small stuff nearly as much as you once did you were able to shake things off much so easily and so maybe in many ways 2026 could look like 2023 for example that may have had little hurdles but you're like well that's bliss compared to what I know. Give me another 2022 that was the best year of my life but I think present was the perfect word it's so funny I hope my little sister everyone's okay with me saying this I really when I pick these things I really fucking stick to them like I love this shit historically this has always been like in the same way you really returned to your word this year. Yeah I love living by word and the week before we found out mum was sick I think it was actually only a few days before we found out mum had brain tumors I was talking to Evelyn and Claire about what their words for the he would be and Evelyn decided hers was going to be glow up she wanted to be a really oh maybe it's glossy. It's only a glow for glossy. I remember. And she's like I really just want to you know lean into like beautiful glamour glamour and celebration and like sparkliness this year and then three or four days later we're all in hospital with mum with three brain tumors and she's like oh no I really set the wrong word where I was like presents actually really important right now. And you've just nailed that word like you I don't know how much you've actually come back to it yourself but like it's just been the entire way you've lived to the year like you have been so present you were so present with your family to the point even when you're point about there in that audio about not being on your phone like conversations that we had this year so present home so present and so present here when you were recording. Yeah I really tried to when I was in a room be in that room you didn't be somewhere else mentally which can obviously be very hard like if it's a dire situation there's obviously always this backing track of like worry. Yeah no I am I think after Mum passed I had this mental process of did I spend enough time with her was I present enough with her but I think that happens to everyone when you lose someone who's like times the one thing you'll never get back I think I did like I did really try all year to spend my time in a way that was true to my values and my priorities and so even though I'll have I think this thought pop up now and again for the rest of my life did I spend enough time with her I think the honest answer is yes it's so yes yeah I even know that to be true from where I'm sitting because I know how much time you spent there yeah I know where you are all the time yeah true you do know where I am you have to find my friends you call me your sim I am you are like where's my little sim at the moment I do know where you are all the time yeah and you the amount of things that you gave up this year the amount of things you didn't come to yeah to say actually I'm gonna be with my family like think about the amount of dinners that you will like not I'm not going to that not that social event I'm not going to you did not go because you wanted to be present with her yeah so yeah you were present you nailed that yeah I am really enjoyed this episode is really hot okay do you want to try your resolutions one of them might have been like they're always stupid this is the thing I always set resolutions and I never fucking do them they just make me feel bad I'm pretty sure the year before I said I'd wanted to walk ten thousand steps a day then the year after I didn't do it in 2023 or 20 for I'm losing track of the year so then I said actually it'd be 7500 and then I didn't fucking do that this year either wait just but this is why I love your resolution so much because you're like I'm a big news resolution parent I'm a big news person and every you have the same hope for next year I'm so naively hot it's big isn't that well maybe the night but maybe the night of it is being beaten down to me we'll find out maybe I'll get to the end of this episode and I'll still set a fucking wish up to be honest I think you will may I play one of them for you please my first one is still walk more steps I don't want to let this go I do plan on hitting this in 2025 it wasn't like a resolution I forgot about I knew the entire year I really wanted to do it I didn't make it happen this year but I don't want to take that failure as an always failure I want to make it happen in 2025 that I will walk 7500 steps a day 2024 me failed 2025 me will not fail you've got this I did not have it I didn't I did less steps fewer steps in 2025 than I did in 2024 I've also I also like can I be honest you had a baby so you're very pregnant then you had a newborn and then you had surgery yeah you couldn't walk yeah it wasn't very good this year oh now that I'm looking don't look at it the competitive person in me I'm looking at this number I'm like we can do better and now I'm like fuck am I going a third third time I actually it's so funny to say this because hearing you from a year ago say that I'm like you're gonna galvanize yourself well as soon as I heard that I was like we go again and this time we actually do it maybe I need listening input after this episode goes live how many steps should I be aiming for and can the listeners can we make this a thing where we all hold each other accountable I this year randomly have been trying to get my step count up yeah and as someone who's actively tried I will say 10,000 steps is so much more than anyone I mean maybe if people that are in the step game realize this I didn't realize how much walking that was do you know what it's a lot of walking for though if you are in a sedentary or sedentary I don't know the word job where you're sitting at a desk way harder than for example I know I have some nurses in my life who reach 10,000 quite routinely because they're up and about so much of the day I would say six to seven thousand this all in all right can we go seventy five hundred again okay and I reckon we call it step check and at the end of every month on a um Friday episode I'm going to do a step check and me and the listeners can hold you there I see no I'll do it with you step check I'll do it with you I honestly think if we do it together it also might make us do more walking meetings are we okay I don't know what the cadence of this episode is supposed to be a little structure are we locking in our first resolution yeah we are okay first resolution for 20 seconds I knew it first resolution for 226 lock it in we are doing 7,000 steps on average seven or seven and half seven and a half thousand steps on average per day for the year where you're doing a monthly step check update with the listeners who want to join us Friday episode once a month you know what's wild the intense pressure to look perfectly polished online if you've got a side hustle a portfolio or a business your website is your first impression and it needs to be flawless absolutely you have to look like you're on top of your game from day one and that's why if you're serious about launching using square space is the secret weapon you need the effortless professional design seriously we look at the incredible websites people build with them and they are next level you don't need a massive team or a coding degree they have award winning templates or you can even use their AI builds are where you tell it a few things about your goals and it creates a stunning custom design for you once you have that beautiful website set up you can immediately start turning your attention into income their member areas feature is a genuine game changer totally if you're a content creator a consultant or have any knowledge to share you can use member areas to sell exclusive content memberships or even full courses directly on your site it's the easiest way to monetize your expertise and community stop dreaming about your next big thing and start building ahead to square space.com forward slash shameless one oh for a free trial and when you're ready to launch use offer code shameless 10 that is shameless one oh to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. Do you want your second resolution? No can we do one of yours? Well I thought we could just go through yours and let me have pick mine up at the end. I don't want to be the Michelle Bonanza. It's not we'll eventually get to me but okay we'll quickly do my own um what was it? I think I wanted to take care of things beautiful things in my own. Was that the year before? Is that this one? I don't know all fucking blends together. At raid more. Of course my love of rating and I want to raid going it even just a little bit I want to raid a book a month. Let's do it gal. One book a month I can fucking do that it's not that hard in fact and then my brain was so dumb it's like if I'm a holiday I could smash out four. I went on holiday after doing that I did smash out four and then I think I read two for the rest of the year six. Future percent of the way there. That's pretty good. It's a fail. It's not a fail. Pretty sure it's a fail. Pretty sure standard at school is like 16 and over. Sorry we don't do these to cross or fail ourselves. Yes we do. It's for joy. Okay well I joyfully failed but not always for joy but you know what I mean. That one was terrible. Last one. I'm not adding that to this year so I've just am who I am and I should aim for more reality TV shows if I'm being true to who I am. I'm not a reader. Do you want your third? Do you know what it is? Fuck read more. Drink more water I can just two litres a day. Get my iPhone messages down to zero. At the moment and I look I don't know what's going on with my brain. I know everyone's brains are totally different. Yeah. Do you want to guess how many unread messages and like phone calls that I just you know when your phone thing comes up with the notification number and then your message thing comes up with the notification number. No. Yes. No. Not really? 500? Well yeah it's cumulatively 500. 360 of those are I messages that I haven't opened. Okay I haven't checked yet. You reckon I'm worse or but I completely forgot that that was a resolution. Obviously. Do you think I'm higher or lower? 360 was what I just said. 360 is pretty high. Like 360 still has me quite shocked. I'm going to go lower. I'm going to have something. I think I'm the same. Oh slightly more 333 but I have something to confess to you. I've had a heart. I think we both agree. I have an amnesty or like I have a pass until the beginning of next year. You have an amnesty for a while. Okay um in my work email of 1900. I haven't wanted to talk about my friend email. Now I have this thing. I'll do a quick scroll and the one through important often have that little yellow arrow next to them. The rest is mostly and you know this about me. That's so funny. When I buy something I don't untick the box. For example if I'm scrolling through. What do you think the most important emailing that's in there that you haven't read is? I don't know. No you don't. I don't want to know because I've missed it. That's fine. I will say if you went through mine right now it's all newsletters like a mum braille newsletter, sacred heart mission newsletter, like and subscribe to Natalie's newsletter, an update from zero shop back sub stack. Please tell us more. Like none of it's important shit. That's fine. I'll do a quick scroll. If a little yellow arrow comes up I click in. What's a yellow arrow? Like important. Do you ever have them? In my inbox there are things that if it's like a mass sent email from like a newsletter that doesn't get marked as important. Yeah I've got an important tab. So it picks up. It's like she won't open up. That is hilarious. Yeah sorry about that. That's fine. Oh actually I know the worst one I missed. Yeah. My psychologist very politely at the end of our last session was like and I didn't want to chase you. Given your mother just passed away but I think you're late on a couple of invoices. And I had, did I owe over $600. It's like so I call the agency but I won't pay you. She's probably been in there and your tea is right back there but like come on. Full appointment and a roping like is this bitch gonna pay? I wonder if she'd say that a bit though because you know you're dealing with people that are actually going through things quite from at it. And then I did a lump payment but I was like oh that hurt. Yeah. Anyway. Your turn yet? Yes those are your three. I'll play mine and then we see some new ones. I only had two and honestly these are as important because I was really you forced these out of me. You were like we cannot do this episode without me as resolution. So you need to and I think we came up with them on the spot. Do you remember them? No. Fuck no. Okay. Sorry. No no no. One of my resolutions is it's okay to let go a little bit and I have spoken to you about the fact that I get really I'm tired now at 30 of waking up with my alarm, opening my phone and being worried that I've missed something that the work day started straight away that I can't be present and I'm over that. What does that mean? Don't be hard on yourself. You're saying let go a little bit. You don't need to jump on every small spot fire. Let it go. You don't need to be on the clock 24/7 anymore. Now that the business is getting bigger it's how I interpret that. Yeah, which I think is true. And I think it will link into something you'll talk about later in the episode. Yeah. It will. No, but I definitely think movement on that issue. Can I give you some feedback? That's not a new use resolution. That's just another word. That's just let go. You're going to hate how I talk about resolutions. You see them. I don't believe. I don't. Okay. Sorry. It makes you happy. Not what makes people like you more. What? Recently I was going to do an episode of "Inherited". We had it flated and they were like Ruby to sit down with you and you don't unpack your recipe rule ritual and relic. And we were sitting in a room and you were kind of like, I was kind of like, can you just pick them for me? And I was sitting there and I was like, I don't know if I want to do this. And I know this would be good for the show. For the show. But I'm in a constant battle with my ego about like, am I sharing this? So I think people will like me more. Am I sharing it? Because it's going to make me happy. And next year I just want to pursue the things that make me happy. Wow. What do you think? Yeah, I think that's true. You did do that. I did do that a lot this year. This is one of the only areas you and I diverge in that I love sharing shit about my life. It makes me feel better. Sometimes it can make you feel worse. Yeah. Yeah. And I think the less. And then it's kind of self-fulfilling because the less you do it, the harder it is to kind of break through and do it again. But I think it has been great for you. Yeah, it has been really good to just, I do feel like I'm I've got this like, I don't want this to come out the wrong way. No, no. I do feel like I've got this sort of relatively imaginary wall up a little bit this year between myself and everything else between myself and how much I share and what I say and private Zara versus public Zara. Yeah, yeah. And the reason I said I want this to come out the wrong way is because I don't want people to think that I sit down here and I don't say what I think or that this is a different version of me. I was like in some way inauthentic now. Yeah. Yeah. Because I still think we share random things. But I only ever share if it makes me happy or not because I think people will lack me more because of it. So I didn't know that was a resolution, but it's definitely something I've been thinking about. Clearly. A lot this year. Well, you've definitely lived that out. It would have been kind of funny if you listened to that like a month after doing an inherited episode or something. No. You did a life lessons, but that was like again, that was a good way of having that wall. Yes. Because you could really dictate what you spoke about. And if it's a life lesson, it's more about the listener than it is for you. Yeah. And you can kind of talk about things still in a way that feels true and deep, but still not kind of get to the nitty-gritty of things if you don't want to. Yeah. So I think wow. That's so interesting. I bet you're going to say that's not a resolution either. Technically, I will look. I would say a resolution has to be saying really measurable. Oh, you've got a little smile on your arm. You handled that really well. The spot is still alive. Have you ever listened? No, but I mean, we could measure it and measuring it is you didn't put yourself, did you put, maybe you can answer it this way, did you ever reveal something on the show or publicly this year that you then went, oh, I wish I didn't do that. I did that for a reason that was more that wasn't actually true to my happiness. No, I didn't do it at all. Yeah. Resolution successful. Yeah. That's true from two, baby. How interesting. I think at this point now that I look back on it, I was clearly in this space and I reckon it would have come up a bit around recordings at this time. I think I was in this headspace of like, how do I make a career out of this job if people don't know intense amounts about me? And I think that this and I think I was feeling really complicated about what will this do to my career? And also like, just shut up. But second to that, I think there is a lot expected of women in the public eye to be very accessible. And also there is the idea that the more you share, ideally the less hate you get because people don't think it's like this perfect sheen. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Ideally. And so that was also. That reminds me of an interesting DM we got. Maybe we could deep that right here. Yes, exactly. We got a DM a couple of weeks ago. And it was the episode that you had just come back after your mum had died. And I got teary in the intro about mum dying. And someone said to us, and I don't think they meant this maliciously, but we did spend a good amount of time sort of, we did giggle at it. Not at you getting teary at what came up. Back when I was trying to dig myself out of it. Basically the DM was, hey, I love your show sometimes. I dip in and out. I find you hard to relate to because you're happily married women. You're very like happy and chirpy. Yeah, and you don't hate your husbands, or men. But there was something about this episode that I liked and I can't put my finger on why. And we read that. And we're like, we can put our finger on why. You probably liked this episode because one of us was really sad. And one of our lives doesn't look all that good right now. And you know about that. And I think that plays into that DM, plays into a broader cultural thing. And I don't even think this is necessarily the majority of people. I think it's just a portion of an audience, any audience. I think it's often conscious. No. Who on some level find public figures more palatable when they are aware that that public figures life looks a bit crap or a bit messy. Yeah. I think that's why when someone's in crisis, and it might be like an empathetic thing maybe, but I also think it's a likability thing. If someone's life looks too shiny, we find them off pudding. And the irony is, is that often that person's life is not that shiny. That person is just choosing to protect their peace and not share everything that's going wrong at that point in time. Yeah. I think that's a really interesting way to put it. And I was struggling with not that specifically, but like a few different elements of that at the start of last year. But I haven't really thought about it since. I've just kind of lived it and not really thought about it. So that's kind of free. Yeah. I think you're doing great. Whoa. Okay. So next year. Okay. So you're work, well we decided before we got on the mic, we love the words thing so much that perhaps perhaps we're big and old enough to handle two words. Yeah. What a personal word and a work word. Professional word, personal word. What would you like to start with? I would like you to start. Okay. My personal word. And I feel like this is earnest. So actually I have two options that I want you to pick for me. We have 17 words. Okay. My personal word for 2026, it needs to encapsulate like a almost not a rebirth because that sounds really cringe, but I am either looking at healing, being my word, or celebration, being my word. I know they kind of sound not that similar, but yeah. What do they look like practically? When you hear healing, what does that look like for you? I think getting to this time next year, I'm like, oh, I have such a firm sense of peace, maybe, or like I have really done what I can and what's in my power to mend wounds from this year. Yeah. So I'm like with healing, is that like, I know this sounds weird. So it's just an eternal journey, actual self-care, or is it spending time with people that you love? Like what gets you closer to that point? Because healing sounded more right to me out of those two words, and hearing where you want to be this time next year, I think celebrating with people you love might get you there. Well, celebration might be the path to healing. Yeah. Yeah. Healing is a destination celebrating celebration of the journey. Celebrating small things, small moments. Yeah. I mean, it's not that. Celebrating people. Yeah. Because you do thrive in connection. Like you appear anyway to seem more full when you are fully connecting with someone. Maybe it's celebration. It can be both. Because I think also it's, yeah, I think I'm going to lock in celebrate, but if future me hears this and I thought my word was healing, that's also allowed. Of course it is. You said it. It'll be in the audio that we've had up. We always like to make sure we're looking after ourselves, which is why we like the ethos behind selfish subs. Their brand is built on the idea that selfish isn't a dirty word. It's about owning your strength and feeling your fitness journey on your terms. And the fact this is protein and sports nutrition made by women, for women, they just get it. They have functional delicious products made to assist you throughout your week. Like their protein powders, or even the give me energy powder, it's all about multipurpose formulas for our multifaceted lives. Plus, the flavours are meant to be juicy, so you enjoy every sip. Put yourself first, find selfish subs exclusively at campus warehouse, install or online. What's your personal word? My personal word is me. Love. Explain. I thought this was your professional word. No, no, no, no, no. But it will play out at work, I think. Not in a, no, if anyone at work is listening to this, not in a way where I'm just, I was thinking about I really want to put like my mental and physical wellbeing first next year. Nice. I really want to focus in on those two things. I've felt like I've done that a little bit over the last couple of months. And I do, I do feel better for it. Like I do feel like I'm looking after myself at the moment, and going gently with myself. And I want to do that into next year. Have you felt historically like you haven't done that? I can get a bit hamster, really. And it's funny. I don't think I'm a super, I super people pleaser, but then there are things where I'm like, I feel like I'm just doing this for everybody else. I haven't actually thought about what I want in this scenario. I think, and I'm sorry, I mentioned Amy again, but she once said to us that we kind of tie ourselves into knots, trying to do everything, be everything for everyone else, and then we turn to ourselves last to go, okay, what about us in this equation? And she was encouraging us to re-calibrate that a little bit. Yeah, and I don't want this to sound like some big flex, which is like I just constantly thought about other things and not myself. It's not, it's not hugely that. But it is like when I am looking at something, I'm also at the same time being like, and where do I fit in this equation? And how can I keep myself really happy too? Yeah. But just as equally it's interesting, not to mention Amy again. But I remember in some of the sessions I was doing with her this year, about general sense of happiness and fulfillment, and she would ask me like, tell me moments where you feel most fulfilled and most calm and most peaceful, because is that where you want to be for a longer period of time? And so I would tell her these moments, and they're often around other people, but also the way that I would describe how I was. I don't know if this is going to sound like random or amorphous. The way that I would always tell her, oh, that's kind of what I was. It was constantly through the eyes of other people. So it wasn't like how I perceived myself to be, it's like, who I might be with you, who I might be with Oli, or how you might perceive that, or like my parents or my family. And it's constantly a connection with other people. And it's like, okay, but like if you're just standing out in an island by yourself, like who are you, what do you want? How do you feel? Like separating that from other people too. So there's a little bit of that in there. I know that sounds a bit vague, but like, was this what, I think there was a show more episode we spoke about this. We were talking about mirroring other people. Is it similar to that, or should we just delete this? No, no, no, I'm trying to work out if that episode's actually out yet of the show more. If not, subscribe and it will be soon. I think it, yeah, probably it could be. Yeah. It could be all tied in. And just getting to the centre of like what makes me want, what I want, and what makes me happy, which is I guess not dissimilar. It's probably just like a continuation of like the conversation from a resolution soon to start. I also think a lot of women listening to this will relate because I think it's kind of trained into us from the moment we're born that women do think about everyone in an equation before they center themselves. I think it's a very feminine trait. Well, I think we're told to be caretakers. Yeah. And most women are. Everyone else, everyone else, everyone else. What's everyone else doing is everyone taking care of, okay, now me at the end. It's like the classic thing of the mom having to wrap her and Christmas present or having to serve herself the ugliest plate of food with the worst part of the chicken or whatever. Yeah, and I don't know where I read this and it's like such a great tragedy because I think about it all the time, which is like how often you will hear the life of a woman described in the context of how she cared for others rather than what she did for herself or like the career she had like so often you hear older women described as and which is beautiful. Well, that's the thing. It's like it's not that that in and of itself is bad. It's bad. It's that that both things should exist in tandem. That you can be this incredible person for your community and the people you love, but also you are someone beyond just who you care for. Exactly. Exactly. Okay, your work, word please. Professional word. Fine. Fine. Am I allowed to say the official word? Wait, am I? I'm just going to try and say the official word and if we decide this, we'll delete it. But people will be like, why can't she say the official word? If I'm being honest, I'm holding onto the microphone with both my hands. My professional word for 2020 is destroy. In that, I would like to destroy the competition or destroy the idea that we cannot shoot for the stars land on the moon vibe. I want to, I am so invigorated with like, put down, maybe destroy expectations. That's it. Destroy in regards to not people but expectations. She's been PR-trained, well, I never said you couldn't say it. I was like, if we say go out there and say we want to destroy a competition, it's probably not the best thing to be starting the year off. But yeah, we've been using that word a lot internally just between ourselves, which is like, let's go out there and destroy. Like there is a huge rocket. I hate this phrase, but like, I'll power us. I hate that. Say it in a different way. There's a huge rocket that we're on. Going to the rocket. We're on the rocket. It's not up out. I miss it. Flacker. Flacker. Flacker is vagina. Is it? I'm so sure. Keep. There is the other kind of phrase that we've been using a lot is like, foot down, foot on the accelerator, like go. What? Flacker. Flacker is vulva. Wait, no. It can be anus testicles or vulva. Okay, those three are very different. It's according to AI overview. So take. Great result. Yeah. I definitely feel that sense too, which is, okay, we've had the year where we've consolidated things. We've made sure each of our shows as well looked after. We've spoken about this a lot, probably more in shame, more, which is we try to have a big growth year and then we try to have a consolidation year. This year's been really interesting because revenue-wise, it's been our biggest growth year, but we haven't launched anything. Which is pretty amazing. We have just been consolidating the shows. We haven't making sure those communities are sustained and thriving and well looked after. In media, you can move so fast that you don't look after one of your shows for a couple of months and it can fall off the wagon. Yeah. So, 2026 growth year. Destroy. How? Expectations, destroy. The ceilings. And I think so many of the ceilings that I'm talking about have been self-imposed historically. So we're also destroying some self-imposed ceilings. Michelle, I think almost all of them have been self-imposed. Genuinely, 99% of the ceilings were just figments of our own imaginations. I think it's really shocked me in the last couple of months how much I have made peace with potentially running a much bigger company than I ever thought I wanted to. And I think you might be similar. Which is that I always thought I'm not built to run something more than 10 people. That's too stressful. That's too much. Then I got to 20 and now it's like, I don't know. Don't call them up. And I always thought, not me. I don't think this is for me. I don't think this is for us. This is really hard. In particular, it's too hard to be public-facing podcasts hosts and honest business people. And I really do think that limitation has been our own. Whereas in the back end of DCU, we were like, okay, well, what if we just tried? What if we got out of our own way? And we spoke about that when we talked about why we released. I've never even things like that. Where we genuinely started looking at it and thought, what if we just pulled some of these ceilings out of the way? Because we can get out of our own way. And so far, I mean, I don't want to say this too soon. Revealing our revenue, I'm like, yeah, that was a great decision. Nothing's- It's like that. It's like that day. It's kind of embarrassing. It's kind of embarrassing we took ourselves so soon. Yeah, I know it. It's completely embarrassing. No one thinks about us anywhere near as much as we think about ourselves. But of course. Okay, you- Oh yeah. Professional work. Definitely look. I think- Destroy is like- I have two. One is definitely destroy. I am fired. This is, I think I said this a few times. I'm even more fired as I'm talking. This is the most motivated I've ever been in December. I am not burnt out. I am not crawling to the end. If anything, I'd find it really fun if we just had a week off and then, like, was able to build something. Same. But we're taking like three-and-a-half weeks off or something. Yeah, the other day, you turned to me like, "Jack, we could write a book next year." I'm like, "Would we have time to write a book next year?" And then we're both genuinely thinking- Which you were like, "Good God! We already have so many other plans." But it's like, "Fuck yeah, let's- I want to do that book." Yeah, same. Our book agents can listen to this and be like, "What? Yeah, so definitely destroy. I feel motivated. I feel excited." And I think if I feel excited right now, then what is January 18 going to be like the night before I go back to work? It's like- You could say we're like Edward Colin having the fresh taste of Bella's blood. I haven't got to that point in a year. He hasn't drunk her yet. I self-then he wants to go. Sorry, but the records show that this is being recorded just before I went to the pilot episode. And I haven't finished the movie. And Disentangle. Disentangle. Okay, let's keep it. Thank you to my friend Phoebe, because I was trying to explain to her what I thought my workward was. And I was like, "Learn out." She's like, "It's not lean out of Disentangle bitch." Your work can't be destroyed in lean out. Exactly. Because she's like, "You're not talking about leaning out." No. You're talking about Disentangling. Trying to now really disentangle myself from the day to day. And this, I really see the path forward. Which is why was it let go was what you said last year? This is actually that in deeper practice. Yeah, I think I've- I started that journey this year. I did start the letting go journey. And now it's like, "All right, snip, snip, snip, snip, snip, snip." Get out of the day to day. You can only big picture this. Get out of the Slack channels. Which we are doing in general news to the team who are listening to this R and I are doing a mass exodus from Slack. I just don't think it's good for anyone. No, you guys don't need us in there. Just really bird-eyeing what we are putting out rather than being in the weeds of- We're in the weeds too much. Yeah. It's like, I think historically. And I think this is really important for the growth of the company. The way I was thinking about the other day was one in the weeds making sure the day-to-day is like this machine is well-oiled and running well. And then one slightly like birds-eyey. That worked well as a duo. I think now the business of the point where it's like, no, no, no, no, no. Both sky-high looking at the big picture. Yeah. And I don't want to work full-time next year. No. I think a huge part of being able to disentangle is also not being here all the time. Just being a bit more absent so that I don't thrust myself into things that I don't need to be in or people don't unwittingly thrust me into things that I don't need to be in. Like a huge part of that is forced absence. Yeah. And so as selfish as it is too, that I think I just want some time now, like- World to serve. We started this when we were 23. We worked. My word is me. So it's like, oh, I would love to like- I would love to go hang out with my sister and my nephew on Mondays. Like, that's really all I need. You can also adopt the word present. You sound like you're going to be the little bird. Yeah. Or even like, yeah, actually, I'm not going to say that because if I want to take it back, I'm like, I could help her out with childcare. I'm like, do I want that? No, I'm not. You now have Monday child care sorted. Like little things like that. Oh, Sammy and my best friend, Sammy. Yeah. And like people that in my life that have these- So you're taking care of Sadie every Monday? Well, I was not going to say you and I could actually hang out. Yeah. Hell yeah, we can. We could just hang out. Hell yeah. Sadie, you're invited. Yeah, like I do. I want to hang out with my parents, my best friends, and their kids, and actually spend time all together. You call them your parent friends? Well, is that how I'm identified now? I mean, your parent friend basket. Are you serious? Is that bad? No, it's not bad. It just sounds a bit dorky. Okay, what would you like? Because I can re-brown my friends. Just friends, it's fine, friends. But you are- you're a- you are- I'm a different kind of a fish because you have to hang out with me in parenting hours. Well, like I wanted to have a big night with you and so you had to book a hotel months in advance. Like, it's not- it's not like in time, but your life is so rich. Oh my god, I love it. No, no, no, no, no. The best thing I ever did was have a baby. I don't bring this out of myself to the podcast often. Fanatical about having a shit like the best. See, that makes- that makes me happy. Mind you, I'm now at home every night. Once the clock strikes six, I clock in for like a time routine. No, it's true. That's the only thing that we're really missing. The afterwork champagne. Well, you were like, kind of the pub and stuff. I'm like, baby, that's just not- It's just not feasible. And also to be blunt, I don't want to be. This is weird though, I just assume that I will want- if I have kids that I will want to still go to the pub with my baby. I want to be home for better. Maybe after she's asleep that I'm like, she comes to the pub with me though. Like a sheet, I mean, like a sheet. So is this your future baby or a city? Yeah, my future. I'm not having one again. Yeah, it's not pregnant girls. If- if in the future you have a baby, the hypothetical is, would they come and do the you to the pub for dinner? Yeah. And I've been under or over four months old. If they're under four months old, they'll sleep anywhere probably. I just don't want to lose those parts of my life. Um, how does the pub sound to you from home for- I don't know, we've got the pub from home. You would treat dinner at the pub at 4.30, but babies are in beds as like, six to seven. I probably need a bit more time in. Thank you for doing this. Thank you. I know you didn't. This is kind of traumatic at the beginning, but we're in the way. How do you- How do you feel now? I feel okay. I'm really hoping 2026 is gentler to me. It will be. I'm going to touch wood. Hopefully, I'm not tempting fate in any way. And I hope it's gentle to you and I hope it's gentle to everyone listening like- Mostly, I hope it's gentle to you, mostly. Thank you for being generous and sharing so much. Thank you for being generous, but also maintaining that beautiful wall you've got. Generous to it. Generous sort of. Happy New Year, you guys. Hope you're not nursing a killer hangover. Oh my god, yeah, Slime, you stay. Like, what have you done last night? Did you like- I'll be- What are you in the world? Vienna. Shake as shit. What are you doing here? No idea, I've got a baby. Um, I think we love you having a couple of friends over at Barbeque. No, not parent friends. Cool friends. No, the opposite isn't cool. That's the unspoken bit. You've got your parent friends and your cool friends. No, it's just you've got your parent friends and you're slightly more available. Bye guys. Bye. [Music] This podcast was recorded on Verundjeri land. Always was. Always will be Aboriginal land.