The New-Look Timberwolves With Jon Krawczynski and Five Big Questions!

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To learn how to put AI to work for people, visit servicenow.com. Coming up on the Zach Lowe Show, start off your week with some NBA talk. We've got John Krasinski, the great John Krasinski from The Athletic, not from The Office, to talk Minnesota Timberwolves. Jonathan Kaminga was the big news at the end of last week. We get into his fit and just, wow, they really have reinvented this team that made two straight conference finals, obviously fell short of that last season. Lomelo Ball, Jonathan Kaminga, Cody Williams, kind of a sneaky little flyer they're taking on him. And we're going to talk a little bit about that. We're going to talk a little bit about that. Coming up on The Zach Lowe Show with John Krasinski and Moe DeKeele. Hope you guys enjoy it. Welcome to The Zach Lowe Show. It's the last day of August. Training camp is around the corner. John Krasinski from The Athletic is here to talk to us about the big move that happened at the end of last week. Jonathan Kaminga seldom has so much ink been spilled. Over someone who has accomplished so relatively little in the NBA has signed with the Minnesota Timberwolves two years, $12.4 million. That didn't go great for Jonathan Kaminga. Player option in year two. This may be yet another pit stop. Penciled in as the starting power forward for the Wolves who traded both of their power forwards, Julius Randle in a salary dump and Nas Reed in the Lamella ball trade. I think that actually got all roped into one trade. So technically it's just they both got traded in that trade. And I think that's a good thing. Interesting fit, interesting series of events, interesting career trajectory, total no harm, no foul bet for the Wolves at this price point. But this has been a wild summer of turnover and identity change for the Wolves. They still have the Edwards, Gobert, tentpole, ball handler, superstar guard, defensive anchor, and Jaden McDaniels, you know, sort of rounding out the starting five, doing everything he does. So. But they have changed a lot about their team. It's exciting. I'm not sure what it amounts to in terms of actually challenging the best teams in the West. And I do wonder, and we can start here, like, there's a line, there's like a balance between sometimes you do have to change even when things are working well because things grow stale or the league has kind of figured you out or you've clearly hit a ceiling. And sometimes there's too much change too fast. When your identity kind of gets flipped on its head a little bit and you take some time to figure it out, where have the Wolves landed? Yeah, I think that what they have done is they clearly made a determination after losing to San Antonio in the second round, Zach, that they had taken that style of play to its logical conclusion. They were one of the first ones really kind of on board with the bully ball or big man ball when they went cat and go bear in the front court. Then the league kind of started to evolve with them in that respect. And then last year with go bear and Randall, they took a step back from the year before from two straight Western Conference Finals runs. And there's some injuries that were involved with that as well. But I think that when you look at the moves that they did make, it's clear that their messaging is we've got to change and adapt again. And so now they've gone from a team with an oversized front, with big guys everywhere to a sleeker, more explosive, dynamic type of an approach. And they believe that their avenue for zagging against San Antonio and Oklahoma City is, hey, let's get a little faster. Let's shoot a little bit more. Let's run in transition. And maybe that will help neutralize some of the advantages that the Spurs and Thunder have against them. We'll see. But one thing that is for sure is that this is going to be an entirely different identity going into next season. And we'll see how long it takes for everyone to get on board with that. But this is a different looking Timberwolves team from what we have seen over the last three or four years without question. Well, moving on from Randall is fine. I mean, his career playoff numbers, and it's up to 42 playoff games now for him. 18 points, seven and a half rebounds, four assists, 41% shooting, 31% on threes, 46 and a half percent. On twos, he's, I think, had five playoff runs and one of them has been good and four of them have been awful. Maybe it's four and it's three versus one, but whatever it is. And last year was maybe the second awfulest of his career. He had the one Knicks Hawks series, which was a disaster, but 16, seven and a half, 39% shooting, 24% on threes, 43 and a half on twos. That's 16.7 at rebounds. Equal amount of assists and turnovers, just a disastrous playoff run for him last year. And like you said, this sort of just the bulldozer had plowed, had bulldozed as much territory as they could. And it was time for a change. And the big change was LaMelo Ball. And now it's Kaminga theoretically sliding into the starting five, some changes to their depth. This also involved the Josh Green flip for now Cody Williams. They waved John Conchar. We'll talk about Cody Williams later. I think that's an interesting little flyer that they took. It's going to be a very good, good team. I think I've already talked about LaMelo with you. I think the LaMelo ant thing is going to work fine. I think this is exactly the kind of player ant needs. I think a change of scenery was needed for LaMelo. And this is like a more, not that Charlotte wasn't serious, but this is a team that's done serious stuff and the expectations for it are serious. There's a, there's some interesting defensive potential with this Kaminga lineup. It's huge. It's a lot of protection for LaMelo Ball. And I think they're going to try to make their bones like defense transition, rebounding, play super fast. I just, I did two things that are sticking out to me as I kind of look at the team. I don't, I don't know if the Kaminga-Golbert thing is going to work offensively. I think that's going to be really interesting. I mean, it'll work to some degree, right? But Kaminga, Kaminga is like, we're going to, I'm going to talk about Shaden Sharp a little bit later. They're very, they're very dissimilar players, but they're similar in the sense that they're second, third, fourth options who didn't play like that when they got into the NBA, but that's where they are in the NBA hierarchy on a good team. And they haven't, you know, four or five years into their career really developed the skills that that role really requires, like outside shooting, playmaking, defense, and shooting in particular, I think will be a challenge. And you look at the depth, like with, with DiVincenzo out for, I don't know, probably the whole season. I don't know. You're coming off the bench with Bones is back. IO is a killer off the bench. That's great. I do wonder how he feels about now being not a starter again. And then after that, it's kind of a lot of question marks. Terrence Shannon Jr. should be involved. They love Baron J. It's a big step up in pressure for, for Baron J. Cody Williams might get a shot. Trey Lyles is here. It's going to be interesting. I don't quite know what to make of the team in terms of what its ceiling is. Yeah. I would say that if we want to, let's go way back in Timberwolves lore right now. No pun intended with war. No pun intended. Right. Exactly. But when I think it all goes to, all of this boils down to the Lomelo acquisition and what that becomes. And if he is the playmaker extraordinaire, the point guard, the scoring point guard that they believe he can, can be that he was for a lot for Charlotte last year. I think everything just falls into place and they're really, really interesting and competitive. And I'll tell you that in, in this organization's history, this feels a little bit like when the Wolves traded on draft night, Ray Allen for Stefan Marbury and to pair with Kevin Garnett in terms of they thought at that moment, we need dynamic point guard play to, to supplement our incredible two-way force you know kind of power forward small 40s playing everywhere kevin garnett was and from that point on to this that one didn't work out but from that point on to this they have never had a point guard like this that plays this way that can connect people together while also getting his own shots and so um if if they get premium optimized lamello ball then i think that this is a team that can win a lot of games i like their depth zach because i think that sneakily you know you add cominga to the starting lineup now you don't have to really mess with terrence chan and junior at that four spot in the starting lineup he can be in the in the second unit and have the ball in his hands a lot more i think that fits him and by the way you know this because we've talked about it i've always been a believer in him every time he plays good things happen i know the coaches always nitpick the missed rotations the whatever on defense but like there's very clearly been something there with him and when they finally unleashed him a little bit in the playoffs last year it was like oh my god like this guy is just creating stuff out of nothing constantly so i i i think he's ready to play like 20 minutes a game in the regular season i agree yep and i think that this role for him will fit it because now he can have the for things to happen with that starting unit. I think Dante DiVincenzo is going to be back at some point this year. We'll see what he is. Yeah. We'll see what he is when he gets back. But early, early returns are that he's making good progress and, and, and you on Baron J is another key. Like he, he didn't play at all last year, barely. Now he is the backup five. He's gonna play 18 minutes a night, 15 to 18 minutes, probably sometimes 20. And if they can get rebounding and shot blocking from him I, I do think it's a dynamic group that can match up athletically with anyone that they face now, how they, how all the pieces fit together is going to be the question. Does Jonathan coming go come in with the right mindset, playing a role rather than looking to get his stats and, and, and, and be, you know, and, and increase his value on the free agent market. He's saying the right things right now. And so if he, if he approaches it that way, I, I, I like this group. I think they can be right in the mix for a home court advantage in the first round of the, of the playoffs. No, no, there's no question about that. Like they're they've that's the team they've been more or less though. You know, they're seeding his oscillated up and down cause the west is so volatile, but and so competitive, but they're going to be really good. I've always liked coming. I've always been more bullish than consensus on, or then, then at least the warriors coaching staff was on coming. I think everyone involved from his agent to the warriors, to coming to himself, like he handled that situation very poorly. But you know, the bottom line is like, for all the explosive potential that is there, it's now been in golden state in Atlanta that the results have been kind of like, eh, like sometimes it works. Sometimes it doesn't, they have these scoring outbursts, including I do worry a little bit and I don't think Tim Connolly would do this, but I do worry if the wolves are like over-indexing a little bit on the one playoff series that coming up played against the Timberwolves when Steph Curry was hurt and he averaged like 20 something in game. Cause they keep talking about that. Like, yeah, we saw it firsthand as a coming up booster. I should have been like crowing about that series. And I actually just felt like he just kind of made a lot of really difficult jump shots. Yeah. And I, and it was efficient. Like he just made a lot of shots and he's just not going to make that much. He gets to the line all the time, which is a good skill, but for this to work, some other part of his game is going to have to really, really blossom other than just, I can put my head down and score. The one thing I'll give him credit for is like, there was all this noise all the time about how he doesn't play the way Steve curse teams play. He doesn't mesh. He doesn't move the ball as intuitively. And like, no one moves the ball as intuitively as Draymond green, no one moves off the ball as intuitively as Steph Curry, like to judge any player, based on like, it was like Kelly went in there and failed completely. Cause he couldn't play. That was it's like, you're, you're asking regular pro basketball players to play with like Mozart basically. And coming to like his average three and a half assists per 36 minutes. Like that's not nothing. I actually think he can move the ball a little bit and be a handoff guy. And I thought he actually tried to do that a little bit in golden state. I just, I do wonder how this starting five is going to work. And if there's a work, I'm going to have to, I'm going to have to, I'm going to have to think about that. And if there's a world in which it doesn't work and they have to change it up midway through the season and what that will do to their chemistry, but it's, it's definitely worth a bet at this price point. Like I think I just hear here's what I come down to since the go bear trade, which I guess we can just keep litigating whether it worked or not because it worked. I mean, it worked. Is it possible that it worked? And I'm like, they still just gave up too much for Rudy go bear. I don't know. I don't know. That's the right answer. Yeah. And, and he's eligible for an extension right now, by the way, have you, is there anything going on with that? I haven't heard anything yet on that front. I know he wants to be here long-term. I though the wolves will love to keep them around. The question will be what that price point is as he gets a little bit older with you on Baron J coming up the ranks. And, and so I think that is something to explore. But they want to keep that relationship going. He has been, when you look at just the output on the court, if you take away what they gave up for him, uh, it's been an unmitigated success defensive player of the year to Western conference finals, second round, like these are, this is air, like a plateau that this organization has never reached. For a P yeah. For a punchline franchise. Yeah. More or less. Yeah. Now did they give up to maybe one too many first round picks and one too many swaps? Yeah, I think so. And they would probably tell you that like they did overpay for him, but at least they have gotten a return on his investment. And the hope is Zach that bringing the mellow ball in will actually extend Rudy's effectiveness offensively because they have not had a guy who can throw a lob pass to him for four years. You know who you're talking to? The mellow ball apologist. Number one, like I've been telling people for years that yeah, this guy does some goofy shit during games. And like, there's going to be the one legged threes that you're going to hate. And there have been several late game. Speaker 3 : Um, decision-making errors that are just ghastly. He's a really, really good offensive player. He's a great offensive player. And I think in this system, having seen a team that drafted him, that, that he made popular with their local fan base say, and had the most exciting 55 game stretch, maybe in the entire history of the new Charlotte Hornets, um, say to him, Hey, cool. Speaker 4 : We're sending you off for Nas read and a first round pick and some pick swaps, because more or less when we get into real games and we're going to get into real games at some point with conca nipple and Brandon Miller, like second round playoff games and stuff like that. We just don't think you play tough and serious enough basketball. I hope he heard that because he's tall enough, physical enough. And if he stays healthy, which is obviously a big, if good enough to play serious basketball on both ends of the floor. And I just think the offense, he, that it's mostly going to work. It's he's going to be fine. He and aunt will mesh. Well, he and go barrel mesh. Well, the coming up piece is interesting, but this is why I brought up Rudy. I do think there's been an element of the wolves kind of chasing their tails since that trade. So they gave up a ton for go bear. They knew we knew immediately when it happened, you're now in cap jail with this roster. And the only way out of it is going to be trading cat. And they, and inevitably did end up trading cat for Julius Randle. Then they have to dump Julius Randle to get Lamella ball. Similarly, like the trade for dealing him, not working out, which was like a worthy swing. They have to dump him and then they'd get IO to kind of replace him. It just feels like they're chasing their tails, but they, they, and they, but they have maintained a level of like elite borderline elite success while doing it. And it kind of feels like spinning plates to me, to use another metaphor. And I just wonder like how long, they can keep spinning the plates and if they can ever actually get up to the level of the two juggernauts in the west, or if they're just now kind of trapped with a team that is really, really good, but not good enough. It has no path to cap flexibility for like four years at this point. Yeah. I think like you're speaking of the Tim Connelly ethos, since he came to Minnesota has basically been like, I'm going to keep making moves. And if this one doesn't work, we'll find another one around the table. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And if this one doesn't work, we'll find another one around the corner and we'll keep going and we'll keep going until we get it to click into place because you're right. Like they don't have a lot of, they, they have no assets really to trade draft pick wise going forward. If this iteration doesn't work now, you could say, well, maybe then you look at trading Jayden McDaniels and you get some draft picks for him or something like that. It's more chasing your tails when you got, it's the cat thing again, like when your only way out is to trade an awesome player that is imperfect, but awesome. Like it's, it's kind of painful, but what they'll tell you is yes, there is that element, but also Anthony Edwards is 25. Well, Melo ball is 25. Jayden McDaniels will turn 26, uh, earlier this month. I had assumed was 26. You on Baron Jays, 20 coming is 23. Like they have a very young core that if it does click into place can be here together for a very very long time and so um with they feel like with anton lamello and jayden in particular that three headed young core like they feel like that's going to be the thing that they can just keep building around and every team kind of has to shuffle their decks around their main guys and so they they they really feel confident about the the most interesting part about it zach is like all of these bets that they have taken have been on very polarizing dudes it's like rudy gobert is really polarizing lamello ball is polarizing kaminga is polarizing they've got a lot of these guys that the rest of the league looks at and is like i don't know and the world's like yeah bring them in let's go let's let's put these all these misfit toys together we think it's going to work out so there is some gamble to it there is some risk absolutely but they also have a lot of talent on this roster and they're going to be nights where they match up and when things are going well you're thinking holy cow like what's going to happen the question is going to be can they sustain it over a year two years three years as ant enters his prime look as someone who has been higher much higher than consensus on lamello um i the health is the one thing that worries me if he if you can get 65 games out of him again i i have no question that that part of this is all going to work i guess i just have to applaud them for like okay so oklahoma city's awesome and super young san antonio's awesome and super young and has the guy who's about to be the best player in the world if he's not already the best player in the world and figures to hold that spot for quite a long time like well what what am i supposed to do as a team in the western conference well a try to move east how's that going by the way i saw so didn't i see some report last week that they are now the favorites to move east if they get to to western conference teams yes i i would say internally they are so confident or optimistic that they're going to be the team to move east with you know then you pair them with milwaukee chicago indiana detroit however you work but you can cluster them with a central division that really makes a lot more sense geographically and so yeah i i think that they would welcome it and they've been trying to do it for 15 years and now it looks like they're on the doorstep of that so they feel good about that no nothing's been told to them or communicated to them but i think there's a lot of room for them to do that so i think that's a good thing there's a really good chance that they'll be in the east before too long it's just dawning on me that like expansion you know there's like you know you talk to different ownership groups there's like pros and cons like economically does it make sense do we want to do this do we want to dilute the tv revenue it's just dawning on me that maybe minnesota's ownership group which just changed and we'll talk about that is like expansion no brainer we're definitely pro expansion here in minnesota who cares about the money stuff so either it's either it's move east or like what what else you're supposed to do give up exactly like will you at least try yes let's make a goal of it and the lamello thing is a bet on it i'm a big believer in this you're not going to beat those teams by playing like them or playing like a kind of typical team you've got to have something atypical about you and the wolves now have something atypical about them i just it's just going to be a tough road to hold and that's fine maybe it takes someone on the thunder getting injured in the in the playoffs or whatever that happens all the time and it and it could well happen did the right time for them and but i want to do i do want to zero in on cominga like yeah he's the headliner he's the new acquisition what have i not brought up or what have we not talked about in terms of his fit on this team by the way yes he theoretically turned down more money from the lakers that would have had to have been a sign and trade that was never like complete according to people i've talked to around that transaction and the hawks are hard capped at the first apron they would be the sign and trade partner having to take salary back i think the bulls and the blazers got in and at the end i mean look there's no question jonathan cominga his strategy and his agent strategy has cost him a lot of money in the last few years but at this price he's a bargain but let's talk more about the basketball yeah the basketball of it and we talked about a little bit but i think it really bears kind of drilling in on is the defensive element of it can be really special in terms of you know he i reported it last week but anthony edwards was very vocal in his recruiting of jonathan cominga and the thing that they talked about all the time was how special they can be defensively and cominga is coming in here expecting to essentially tag team with jade mcdaniels on guarding the best player of the on the opponent's team and i can tell you that when the wolves looked at bringing coming in obviously you say yeah we'll take a player who probably is in that 15 18 million dollar worth range at least right now and for six million of course that's a no-brainer but one of the big things that they like about the calculus of it they didn't have you know they didn't have a lot of money in there they didn't have a power forward before this like they did not have that real option and so to be able to slide cominga in there it just like settles the rest of their group and so they they look at it as now they have some option for when they do get into a series against san antonio or against oklahoma city that wants to play bigger that wants to beat you up in the mid-range a little bit cominga can stand up to that a little bit more and so they feel like there is a bet they have a better matchup answer for both of those teams now the shooting will be a question mark um and and and kind of a little bit of the playmaking as well i think but they're looking at returning a little bit more to their defensive roots and saying we're gonna have a big strong starting five where everyone is six seven or taller except for ant who's like six five and we can really see that they're going to have a really make life miserable for opponents and then get out and run and convert and transition with lamella ball throwing half court lobs to people and that will be really exciting and and a fun way for these guys to play i think anthony edwards plays his best when he's having fun and he really wanted both lamella ball and jonathan cominga and was very active in recruiting them and so um they just really think highly of what cominga represents as a physical presence for them to be able to just overpower people athletically i i'm glad you brought up that part of it because i was talking about this with someone from the wolves last week and we were we were also talking about payton watson is like i just think you need a requisite amount of just power i i say like the power athleticism speed to compete against those teams at the top of the conference they're so young they're so athletic they play so feisty in your jersey physical basketball that's the question about i think that's the question about cominga and it's why i think the payton watson departure is a bigger loss for denver than it would look on paper even when you throw in the salary the pick they got all that i just don't think denver has enough oomph anymore and cominga definitely has that um i i can't wait to watch this team play like i'm going to do my league pass rankings next month they're going to be very high when you said the phrase lamella ball throwing half court lobs literally the first thing that popped into my brain was i hope chris finch is extending his vacation to denver and i'm going to do my league pass rankings next month they're going to be very wherever he is and really getting like a nice break from this because this is going to be a big challenge for him and there are going to be a lot of games where he's going to be on the sideline like what the fuck just happened like what did we just do like what's happening um but i the on cominga i just i i just wonder what is he going to do to be useful in the half court when gobert is on the floor and is the main screen setter or vice versa because they ran into this problem in atlanta where the cominga jalen johnson combo seemed so enticing at the three and the four whatever it was and it ended up mostly being like not mostly but a lot being cominga kind of standing in the corner because jalen johnson was on the ball or setting screens on the ball or onyeka akongu was on the ball or setting screens on the ball or jock landale or whatever and you know it just is going to require him to buy into like second side handoffs like ant gobert pick and roll turns into swing it to cominga hand off to lamello ball cutting um moving without the ball transition and like i just that's going to be the test of like literally where is he standing what is he doing when the game slows down i totally agree with that because i do think that one of the things that the wolves sort of had to wrestle with in the julius randall era was okay you have ant and julius who are both iso heavy players and that would really bog down their half court offense when both of those guys were kind of in i got to get mine mode and cominga is another guy who has shown a tendency to be an iso kind of a player and so what they cannot have happen is it turn into a plotting offense it's got to be you've got to be able to harness that athleticism and that electricity in the right way and one of the things that jonathan cominga chose to take the less money to come to minnesota is that he believes that he's coming to a team that does believe in him and so i think at least at the outset they're all saying the right things in terms of let's just make the right play let's just find the right guy and then if we have a mismatch exploit whatever that is if it's cominga if it's ant if it's jade whatever let's just go that way so the key will be making sure that cominga feels all a part of things even when you have to minimize some of his role offensively and right now you know as he's 23 and he's been kind of bounced around a little bit and maybe he's taken a little bit of criticism for a lot of criticism for how all of the contract stuff has worked out maybe he comes in with the right mindset of just doing all of the dirty work and then knowing that if he does that and they win at a high level all of that money that he wants or at least a lot of it is going to come his way whether it's in minnesota or elsewhere next summer i will i just going to point this out last 23 games of last season cody williams 16 and a half points 4.7 assists 4.2 rebounds 47 shooting 20 on threes that's not great 11 of 54 but 54 on twos um i understand the mechanics of the trade for both minnesota and minnesota had to do it to get under whatever apron and utah you know season opportunity i am a little surprised despite um how many young guys on the wing that utah has to find minutes for like in the like in those same 23 games bryce sensible average 23 points a game like so there's some garbage going on in those games to be clear i am a little surprised that they cut bait on him so fast um the first uh the first year of his career was like incredibly ugly like there's no question about that it was like oh my god is this guy just like completely unqualified but he showed some stuff last year he certainly got a frame to be a good defender um you know he was picked right in front of matas buzellas and a little bit in front of jared mccain and khalil ware and jalen tyson so it's like that's a kind of a bad whiff for the jazz um i i actually think i'm gonna be i he doesn't have to play which is great for minnesota like they have no they're not invested in him the way utah was there are pretty they have enough depth that they don't have to play him i would he's gonna get a shot and i'm actually kind of interested in how he does i i assume that are kind of interested in him too i understand he's a math part of the trade back i i like the flyer yeah i i think that's what it is it's a flyer and you know obviously they they waved and stretched john conchar the vet that came with him in that deal and they want to get a look at cody williams i mean wolves fans have looked at this deal and they remember back to the last time the wolves made a trade with uh the jazz and it was hey we get mike conley he's the point guard and oh yeah they just threw in this other guy nikhil alexander walker and uh he's just you know he just makes the math work it's not gonna there's nothing gonna be to happen out of that and nikhil turns into and is developed into an unbelievable role player for them goes to atlanta and takes another step and he's you know a 20 million dollar player now for in the league and will that happen with cody williams i don't know but i do understand and i think it's good business when you can acquire a young talent and just see if getting him in a new system getting him around the world is going to be a good thing for him and i think it's going to be a good thing for him and i think it's going to be a good thing for him and i think it's going to a great thing and they could use that uh in the front court for sure um i think it's a worthy flyer i'm looking uh over there i'm not going to do their over under uh because bill house and i are doing our second annual over unders podcast i was the winner last year it was like being the thinnest kid in fat camp like we all sucked but i won take the trophy when you can get it uh 47 and a half feels right interestingly we'll talk about this on that pod but all the the numbers are really scrunched because of the of the anti-tanking uh rules that are taking into effect feels like a good number to me um for minnesota i'm very interested to see how they do i'm excited to watch their team do you get on did you get did the krasinski family go anywhere fun this summer do you get any downtime we got to hawaii just last week so it was the first time i've ever been and it was everything you could possibly have hoped for um we were we were in maui and just snorkeling stayed at a at a resort with some swimming for the rest of the year and we had a lot of fun and we had a lot of fun and we had a lot of fun and we had a lot of fun and we had a lot of fun and we had a lot of fun and we had a lot of fun and we had a lot of fun and we had a lot of fun and we had a lot of fun and we had a lot of fun and we had a lot of fun and we had a lot of fun and we had a lot of fun and we had a lot of fun and we had a lot of fun and but it happened at like 5 00 a.m maui time so i was able to get that done before the kids woke up and no harm no foul uh new new era with mark's dad and the owners but yeah maui and hawaii was exactly what was needed uh at this point in august right before school starts so my wife and i have like um dream trip lists that we try to see like how aligned we are we are aligned on number one which is japan at some point the low family has to take japan yeah um number hawaii is number two for me i'm just like i i just have to go and and it's it's like it's a little lower on her list because there's far-flung places outside of the us that she wants to see but that's a far-flung place i mean from where i am it's super far from where you are it's super far yeah um how do you entertain the kids on vacation what besides the activities you're talking about do you like when you go i'll go to dinner do you have a strategy do you have a card game what do you do so um yeah actually what we do is we tire them out so much during the day with activities and then by dinner time it's like hey we're chilling we're just gonna have dinner we're gonna eat we're gonna tell some jokes my son like will speak like hey dad okay who's your starting five if you could just start today in the end like he will talk to you and i'll be like okay i'll be like okay i'll be like he's just he's just going he's just throwing first take topics at you all the way in yeah it's jordan jordan versus lebron it's like hey you know okay all time who would you take on the bucks you know it so we go through the the whole thing and he asked about bill russell and he asked dude does my wife kind of like rolls her eyes and just like can we have an we're about to have nine months of basketball talk can we not but uh so we'll have yeah we'll just we'll just chat and talk conversation but usually they are so gassed by that time that we can have a little bit of chill i'll have a drink have a glass of wine and um and kick back and then and then we'll head back to the to the resort and just kick our feet up but uh that's that's the whole style we don't yeah we don't try and do tricks or parlor games or things like that because they'll like chew that up and spit it right out at us uh first of all my daughter unleashed her first really first take ready let's go sports take over vacation because we're you know we're we were in europe so we're we can't but they were pretty solidly over 500 while we were away and we're walking to the beach one day and she we're talking about the mets and she just goes daddy i think we might be better without soto and i was like whoa that's the first take discussion was like first of all matter you're wrong like they're definitely she just doesn't really love soto but she's like we're playing better like maybe we don't need soto and then she was like what if we traded him to baltimore to get pete back pete alonzo back i'm like you're this is just you're programming a great show i love it but here's our card game i want to give an advertisement uh for so uno obviously is a legendary card game have you ever played uno flip oh yeah yeah that's a big one yes uno flip top 10 card game i've ever played and we have a deal when we're in croatia because she's with her her another cousin who's 11 years old the three of us play together and if they combined can go on a winning streak of five against me now but they can't they can't collude they have to play honestly to win you trust them to do that yes they because i will i will i will chastise them if they intentionally i will they have to win five in a row against me and then they get two scoops of ice cream instead of one and let me tell you john i take such joy in crushing their spirit there was there was a day there were a couple days where they couldn't even extend a streak past one and i was talking so much yes but nothing gives me more pleasure than when they get to four which happens because there's two of them versus one of me and i snapped a streak but uno flip where you can see the card i highly recommend uh uno flip all right john krasinski um you're the best read everything he does at the athletic to john krasinski show i saw you did a live show with tim connelly and uh other guests at a brewery in minneapolis when i get out there uh this year let's go let's go to the brewery and have a drink you're you you just tell me anytime and we'll make a new live show for you specifically and get you out there as well let's go uh all right john thanks bud i'll see you soon for adults with crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms every choice matters trim fire offers self-injection or intravenous infusion from the start trim fire is administered as injections under the skin or infusions through a vein every four weeks followed by injections under the skin every four or eight weeks if your doctor decides that you can self-inject trim fire proper training is required trim fire is a prescription medicine used to treat adults with moderately to severely active crohn's disease and adults with moderately to severely active ulcerative colitis serious allergic reactions increased risk of infections or lower ability to fight them and liver problems may occur before treatment get checked for infections and tuberculosis tell your doctor if you have an infection flu-like symptoms or need a vaccine explore what's possible ask your doctor about trim fire today call 1-800-526-7736 to learn more or visit trim fire radio evening buyer's remorse buy a new car i'll be moving in let's get started uh sorry i think there's been a mistake I bought it from Carvana. You what? Yeah, great price. I even have seven days to love it or return it. So there's no. No, no buyer's remorse. More like buyer's rejoice. I guess I'll let myself out. Congratulations. I mean it. Buyer's rejoice. Buy your car today on Carvana. Limitations and exclusions may apply. See our seven-day return policy at Carvana.com. Thanks, there. All right, enough Timberwolves. Let's zoom out and talk other stuff around the league. Moe Tequila's here. How you doing, buddy? I'm doing great, Zach. I mean, it's really hot in LA right now, but yeah, we're doing all right. I have not spoken to you in a month or so. We did text the last time you were here. I vowed to text you something nasty. If the Dodgers acquired Tariq Scooble, they did. And I texted you, fuck the Dodgers. And so I wish you nothing but bad luck in baseball for the rest of the season. But look, you loaded up. Good for you. And now your owner is in a little bit of something. so we'll see what happens a little bit of something's probably an understatement it's definitely a weird situation the Dodgers did that they normally do which is completely suck in August so that we all freak out about them but hopefully our bats will come to life uh here in September as we get going and and we'll be ready to go for the playoffs I did enjoy the text message though I did enjoy that I didn't realize until I maybe the Mets played the Dodgers right before I left I think yeah I went to a Mets Dodgers game actually um and I did not realize that Kyle Tucker who the Mets really wanted and then signed for a gazillion dollars with the Dodgers was having such a crappy like a a crappy season a sub 700 OPS season for you guys that made me very happy I revel in failure I I'm becoming becoming a fan again has it has reactivated the worst parts of my personality that's fandom so like Freddie Peralta we trade him to the Rays and he can continue sucking I'm like good I'm glad Freddie Peralta still sucks I'm like well but no wait why it's over it's a sunk cost for us and Phil why do I care well shouldn't I wish him happiness and success as a human person and I don't I wish him failure and so far so and even my even Brazaban a really dependable reliever the Mets traded he went to the White Sox and he's been blah for them I'm less happy about his failure because he was a long time met but it's I'm it's I don't like the person that I'm becoming rejoicing in Kyle Tucker walking up with the 688 OPS and me being like oh that's good it's fandom that's fandom right fandom is loving your team and hating everything else or against your team or anything that goes against your way and yeah man the Kyle Tucker run has been brutal this season to the point where it's like when he gets one hit Zach I'm just like okay maybe this is the start maybe we'll get some sort of push towards the end but uh you know I'm holding out faith luckily we got a lot of guys we could we just got to get our bats going again we we've not been hitting our pitching's been great the guys that especially now that we're starting to get healthy got class now back got Snell back a couple weeks ago you know we're beginning to kind of get like hey guys our startings are going you know one or two earned runs and things like that but our bats have been just brutally quiet so I do have one important baseball take that is relevant to what happened over the weekend um there's only one team maybe two in all of sports that I really truly hate um and that's the Yankees and so I'm now going to defend the Yankees I don't know if you saw this yesterday they were playing the Red Sox that's a good versus evil game for me um my dad is a huge Red Sox fan and the Yankees were head seven to one in the eighth inning and Jazz Chisholm was on second base and they were not holding him on and he stole third and the Red Sox radio announcers went bananas about how unprofessional it was it violated an unwritten rule and like what a loser what a bush league the phrase bush league was thrown out as you know I think most unwritten rules are stupid this I'm now going to defend the Yankees seven to one I just saw the San Francisco Giants blow a six run lead in the ninth inning seven one in the ninth if you're in and no outs so stealing third less than two outs has value hold them on or just let them or don't whine then he steals third that's that's it's not 15 to one it became 15 to one shortly after that seven to one all bets are off this is based this is like the the people come back from big deficits all the time that's garbage I hate the unwritten rules I hate it in the NBA and I hate it in baseball Jazz Chisholm has has had some flare-ups with the Yankees and with other teams he does some stuff that is you know like a little unusual for baseball players to do but I had no problem with that and uh yeah it hurts me to defend the Yankees the other team I have hate is the Braves those are those are the only teams that I feel like real vitriol for yeah no I appreciate the Dodgers aren't there and that uh the hatred level of your your stuff but with the unwritten rule stuff I'm so tired of it like it's like you said either hold them on or don't complain about it it's the same thing in the NBA when somebody dunks at the end of the game well like hey you know baby just play defense it's that simple don't get your ass kicked it's really that simple it's hard not to get your ass kicked sometimes but don't bitch about it afterwards I'm just over all of that I'm not happy that the Yankees are so good this year that is upsetting me and if it's a Yankees Dodgers World Series uh for the second time in three years I'm going to be very upset but that's a different story okay Mo I just had John Krasinski and we talked about the new look Minnesota Timberwolves Jonathan Kaminga and all that we knew a couple big questions with Mo it's it's August 31st there's not much going on a lot of playoff races so big question number one from Mo the top six in the west last year in order was Oklahoma City San Antonio Denver Lakers Rockets Minnesota it would be a surprise to me if that were not in some order the top six in the west again although some of those teams certainly have flaws um I think Houston is actually being a little underrated now that Fred VanVleet is back I think they have a chance to win a lot of games um but things happen in the NBA weird things happen so my question is who is the most likely team to unseat one of those top six and sneak into the top six in the west Mo who is your answer to that question yeah like when you look at it and it's tough with just how deep like the west is I'm not sure anybody's going to Zach like this is the thing like that's not the question Mo you gotta play along okay I'll play along I will play along with you I will go with I think and this is going to be a long shot here I think the Mavs might pull it off if they get a great Kyrie year wow they were not even one of my like top five candidates okay let's let's talk it through so you are super optimistic about the Dallas Mavericks talk talk talk well I think I think we really kind of underrate one we haven't seen Kyrie play basketball in forever and when that happens we tend to forget how good of a ball handler he is how good of a creator he is how good he can it get other things going but I think the thing that's most important about all of that is how that unlocks Cooper flag and I think that's really an important sort of situation with what you're looking at is like so much was put on Cooper flag last year where he had to play point guard he you know everything with the responsibilities he had as a rookie and having to deal with all that stuff now you get to put him in spots where it's now you get to put him in spots where he can work at the elbow and go to work from there then he's going to be able to operate a little bit more in kind of a almost a little pick and roll action with Kyrie even would be fun to watch in that scenario and the way that can kind of devolve I think there's a lot of stuff that they can do and play with that will open things up and then we'll open up stuff for the supporting cast around them which I still really like like I'm you know look Gafford we got it and excuse me not Gafford lively I'm definitely worried about the leg injuries and things like that like that's definitely a thing that's going to happen and I think that's going to be a big thing I'm trying to be an optimist and going to just you know zoom and just say okay if we get a good healthy year from him as well like they got the size they got good stuff I like the way they're kind of set up is it like I said it's a long shot but I think that's a team I think that we're really kind of sleeping on interesting I mean they have real depth a lot of their they have like 19 power forwards on their team or power forward type players in PJ but I'm a Najee Marshall Caleb Martin Merez Johnson we'll see how much he can give as a rookie like they're they all are different players but they all on the positional spectrum are kind of four Cooper flag is actually kind of a four so that makes and research a two I mean research is more of a three than a four but he's you know like we'll see what he can bring them so I like their collection of talent I'm just not sure how it all fits together and if they have enough shooting but you're right like Kyrie one of the more interesting situations in the league like I saw some reports somewhere while I was in the league I saw some reports somewhere while I was in the league while I was on vacation that teams in the league are monitoring the Kyrie Irving situation what are the great no shit kind of reports in the NBA's teams are mine what do you think if teams aren't monitoring Kyrie Irving like what would they be doing sleeping of course they're monitoring Kyrie he's a many-time all-star who's on a semi-expiring contract will the Mavs trade him I don't know they don't really want to he meshes well with Cooper flag Cooper flag loves him we'll see what kind of start they get off to because calculations change teams change and we'll see but he's he's an awesome player he he brings all the skills that they need to kind of make their roster clicked in place in one guy. That's a bold pick, Mo. It's a bold pick. I'm going to read, I'm going to read you the over-unders of the candidates that I just wrote down for this. I'm not doing over-unders. I'm saving that for Bill's pod, but here are the teams I wrote down in order from least to most wins projected. New Orleans, 28 and a half. Just, I just wrote them down. I just was like, I'm going to, they have a lot of players. That's one thing I can say about the New Orleans Pelicans, Mo. They have a lot of players. They did realize that they could sign and trade for new ones recently, which is good for them. Dallas, 32 and a half. Utah, 37 and a half. Golden State, 38 and a half. Kind of a little higher than I expected, actually. Phoenix, 39 and a half. This is all on FanDuel. Portland, 41 and a half. I actually am a little bit surprised that Portland has the highest number of this group. I am going to answer my own question, and I'm going to pick Utah as the team most likely to unseed the top six. I don't think anyone is particularly likely to do it, but Utah will be my pick, even though they're the third most wins projected of this group. Phoenix would be my second pick. I feel like they're the most stable. They know who they are. They had. Had a nice year last year going all in on defense, and Dylan Brooks, they made a couple of trades that may or may not help them. I think will help them. Their young guys will get better. Devin Booker is a great floor raiser. I think they're a pretty solid 40-something win team, but I'm going Utah, and the reason I'm going Utah is I think despite losing Kessler when they just got an offer they couldn't refuse and they had to do it, I don't think they wanted to. I really think they believed in this sort of triple big lineup, and they drafted Walker Kessler. He's an elite rim protector. Has more to give on offense, et cetera. Talk more about him later in the discussion. I think there's some potentially special alchemy between the guards, Keontae George and Darren Peterson, but particularly if the Markkinen-Jaron Jackson Jr. combo can stay healthy for most of the season, I think they've got some potential to unlock something interesting there. I think that everybody amplifies each other on both ends of the floor. recalling the plays and making sure he's pushing the right buttons. But I think their play makers are so young and, and the, gonna play heavy minutes. Like that would be my concern. But when you just look at their talent, I think that's a team that's most likely the one that's gonna be able to kind of jump into that top six and make that run into it, you know, with what they have with, you know, Peterson and Bailey as well, young guys is super athletic. I wanna see how that kind of plays out, how those, those two pair on top of that with Keontae George, you know, you know what you're gonna get from triple J, you know what you're gonna get from marketing need obviously can we just the caveat for everybody just be healthy. : Yeah. : That's just the caveat, but like, I think they need to keep on top of that stuff. I like having Nurkic, you know, coming off the bench a little bit as a big guy, a little bit of a different look and everything that they have. I think that's a reasonable pick. And when you look at the teams saying like, they've done. : A lot from basically last trade deadline to now that they've made the most material change where you think this is really gonna have the impact. And it's finally time for Utah to start winning games. : Well, I think, I think Nurkic is gonna start to open the season. And I think that's, that's the Kessler hit where it really hits home because I, you saw Nurkic is a nice player. He was very good for Utah last year. He's best as a backup now. And I think he's gonna be overtaxed as a starter, but he's surrounded by size and they have Jackson Hayes and Phillip house. He can play some center bombas here. We'll see how they fill that out. But you, you hit, you hit on the, the argument against my, this collection of players could all amplify each other because of the shooting ability of marketing and the shooting ability of triple J plus his defense is it's not a great passing team. The best passer on the team is probably Collier. Who's gonna come off the bench. And so we'll see how they can sort of, I mean, Peterson is a good passer, but he's a rookie and we'll see how he plays. : Right. : But I, I think that's the, the caveat. I wanna talk about the, go ahead. But, but also like the, the thing that's concerns me, even if it was Kessler starting, like the thing that concerns me is now you have marketing and guarding threes. And that's something where I think you're gonna really kind of start to find that problem. I don't know how long that can last for, for, for what they have in the, especially in the west and how, how difficult it can be. : Now you're making me now you're making me because, because you wanna say, well, he's a, he's done it before B well, there's probably match-ups where they can stash him on a whatever weak link player over there, but they're starting five does not have like, okay, but this, this guy can go guard the apex wing on the other team. So like who's guarding Anthony Edwards, who's guarding, you know, pick, pick a pick who's guarding Kevin Durant. Who's guarding what all these players. : Yeah. And I think that's gonna be the, that's gonna be the question that they do need to figure out if they're gonna go with this Uber big lineup that they wanna kind of go with. They're gonna start Nurkic. And then that's another guy who in space, not really somebody I'd really wanna have to depend on in the, in, in pick and roll defense. So they still Zach, I still think it is the right pick. Okay. But I just think there's questions. : You're you're moving away from your own pick. You're the doubt the Dallas map. : Well, I, I went with bold. I went with bold. I just think we can do it. : The other version of their starting five in theory would be ace Bailey starting at the three and Nurkic coming off the bench and triple J playing center. Um, I think they want to try out the, the super big lineup. There's also a world in which they just decide for the exact reason you're talking about. Like Josh Akogi is just constantly a spot starter everywhere. He goes like suddenly Josh Akogi starts 15 games in a row. Like that wouldn't shock me either. Just to get a, a, like a, a very good defender in the starting five. Um, let's talk about Portland. I was actually surprised when I went through the FanDuel stuff that they had the highest over under of this group at 41 and a half. That's a huge vote of confidence in Portland's defensive infrastructure. I think a headline by Donovan Klingin and to Monte Camaro, who will start at the four and the five, or you can call Denny the four, I guess, whatever he is. Um, you know, they're starting five. I, I guess they're really going to do this Moran Lillard, uh, and then obvious Kamara Klingin that would bring scoot off the bench with drew holiday. Robert Williams is back as, um, the backup five and Hanson young is here. : As well. Um, I, they, they don't really have a proven backup for, and the crazy is a backup point guard and Shaden sharp is out for six months with a meniscus injury. Um, I, I 41 and a half feels pretty high to me based on the fact that that starting guard combination is dead on arrival defensively, no matter who's behind it. And I just, Moran is a complete wild card. The bench is kind of shallow. : It's a strange brew of guys with a first year head coach of Mike and Nori who's on a one-year contract because Tom Dunn has decided to operate like a, like a joke. Um, I don't, I, I, I would pick Phoenix and Utah over them. Uh, I don't know. Maybe you just, I mean, defensively they were really good last year. Maybe they can duplicate it. Um, it just, I, I don't know. I don't, I don't see a team quite that good. It's really hard to duplicate what they did defensively when you're bringing in John. : Dame in your back court to start not to, I mean, look, obviously they have drew holiday when he was playing last season, obviously your defensive level raises up, another notch but when you're going to start those two guys that put so much pressure on you defensively then he not quite what he was defensively before now is more focused in what he can do in terms of you know just let me get downhill attack and push and transition so now it comes down to two guys having to cover for the other three and that's a really difficult position to be in if you're clinging or kamara in in the way the position you're set up and then i'm also worried about them offensively zach like i i'm with you and that i would have utah and phoenix and even dallas above them because at least dallas has a framework and understanding of where they can how they can attack offensively this team is going to be really sort of almost confused right like is it dane pick and roll action is it jod pick and roll action and him getting downhill how does denny play with that or how does he work in that i know he can space a little bit but on top of that he's his breakout was him getting the ball and going downhill and get into the free throw line like being able to manage all of that stuff and work through all of that stuff and work through all of that stuff offensively and finding your offensive system and your flow is going to be really difficult then dame who you know in the twilight of his career coming off an achilles injury like yeah i i saw the video he shot 94 in practice great that doesn't matter in games right it becomes much more difficult in that level and i know his shot's not what i'm worried about it's him moving around on top of that and again figuring out how he's going to play how is he going to work with job then you come off the bench like i'm worried about scoots development you know how how much you know what's going to become scoop henderson now at this point with with the way they're kind of set up like i'm very curious as to like what's their plan for him how are they going to develop him or or if it's kind of over for him in in uh portland and he's going to be a second draft i don't think it's over oh is you in a second draft guy yeah i i i see enough glimpses that i'm still interested he he's actually a pretty interesting but i'm going to do um i'm going to do a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a rookie class of draft class of 2023 extension stuff later this week with john hollinger he he's an interesting case i will see if they get a deal done but i i like him where where he is as a as a reserve for now but who knows what happens but um the sharp injury is interesting and a huge bummer um uh and and also may not really even matter to their win total which is a weird kind of thing to say because he's been a minus defender his whole career and i've always been intrigued by shade and sharp anyone who's listened or read me when i used to write would know that uh i mean he averaged 21 points a game last year yeah and it was just not but yet they get to the playoffs and his spot in the rotation shrinks and shrinks and shrinks to the point of vanishing um because he doesn't play defense well enough for the coaches he's not much of a passer he's a 33 percent career three-point shooter and so it's kind of like great you go on runs where you make some pull-up twos and get to the rim and all that but like what is it really amounting to and so i could see their defense being better or just as good or whatever without shade and sharp and offensively despite the prodigious scoring numbers i don't think he was like that central as central to their offense as a 21 point score typically is that said they have so many point guards and so few like wing players i guess kamara is a wing and denny's a wing but you know kamara plays like a standstill power forward on offense plays it quite well and denny plays like a point forward on offense that i was just kind of excited for shade and sharp to get to feel kind of important to their team and even a even a bigger way and now that's gone and drew holidays here he's a wing he operates kind of like a wing but i don't i don't i i've always sort of wanted more from shade and sharp and i thought i think the numbers last year exaggerate his impact a bit and i'm just bummed that it's going to be there's been this setback i don't know maybe you maybe you are higher or lower on him than i am no i'm about right there maybe even just slightly lower in terms of just his overall like what's he going to be in the league at this point and it's not a good sign when it's you know hey you average 21 points but a game and we didn't really feel your impact right like it wasn't in that way that's just not a good sign for any player of any at any level and i think that's the thing that's a little bit concerning with him but i do think it's just a blow because it's another guy that they lost in terms of athletic wing you know part of what made this team so good too was how fast they played and he was part of that getting up and down the court in the way that they played so i think it's it's frustrating in terms of that and again i just when i look at this team you know like i was frustrated with the jaw trade or or when they went and got jaw like for me i just kind of looked at it and i was like oh my god i'm going to lose this game i'm going to as like you i know you got him for nothing or essentially nothing but it was like but at what cost will it be for your team because now i look at like we talked about the backcourt defensively i don't know where he's going to fit in the offense and how that's going to work with him and dame i didn't know what it was going to do with him and scoot and and and how that stuff kind of plays out like for me just overall this whole team is just kind of i'm a little bit confused because i don't know how they're going to play yet offensively and it's i don't know if they know that and it's a really tough game and i think it's a really tough game and i think it's a tough position to put one of my favorite assistant coaches michael norris in in in this situation and then now it's on a one-year deal too with the team option for next year you know and i think it's going to be really interesting to see how he navigates that whole thing of putting this offense together yeah i mean i didn't mind the moran trade because i just thought you know chris murray jeremy grant fine it's it's a it's an upside gamble but at low cost he does have two guaranteed years left on his contract at big money so you're he's not going to be easy to unload if this becomes a disaster and there is disaster potential for sure um i get yeah i mean i get why they did it we'll see how it all fits all right let's take a quick break then i'm going to do another big question somewhere out there is a chevy truck and the person who drives it well that's a chevy person you probably know one your buddy your sister ones who always show up they're the first to rise the last to leave they always have that little extra something and maybe you've got it too chevrolet together let's drive visit chevy.com slash trucks to explore the lineup dave portnoy here something big is coming september 2nd draft kings game day massive deals exclusive deals an all-day celebration built for sports fans and now the draft king sports app is live in all 50 states that means from texas to california to florida every fan can get in on the excitement one app every sport all 50 states remember the date september 2nd draft kings game day get pumped get ready to celebrate new draft kings customers sign up with code spotify spend five bucks to get 200 in rewards within 21 days that's code spotify in partnership with draft kings the crown is yours event trading offered by draft kings predictions a cftc registered introducing broker trading involves risk of loss market availability varies eligibility restrictions apply fifty dollars every seven days via click to claim issued in non-withdrawable predictions dollars that expire in one year terms at dkng.co slash predictions promo nationwide based on sports book predictions and free-to-play sports contest availability varies by state all right big question number two with mo i i gave you an assignment and it was pick your most exciting playoff race potential for the upcoming season and that could be anything you want it could be the race for the one seed in the west presumably between the thunder and the spurs it could be the race for the six seed in the west which you've already kind of talked about it could be anything you want what did you pick i went east okay and i went the basically the top six in the east but we can just do the six seed because i got nine teams vying for six spots and i think that's really like when we talk about finally like this being the eastern the year the eastern conference is is better than the west and everything with it that's what we're talking about legitimately nine teams vying for six spots and i think that's really like when we talk about legitimately nine teams vying for six spots and i think that's really like when we teams can be it can be in the top six and we're going to have three teams of those that are going to end up being in the play-in and i'm kind of just fascinated by that when i was going through it and i was writing all my notes last night i even had at one point had eight and then forgot i forgot realized i forgot indiana everyone's just forgetting indiana baby and which is insane because i'm actually was been really high on them and just completely whiffed on that when i was writing my notes so it's nine teams for six spots i'm fascinated by that i have a couple of teams that i think are locked but then it's after that it gets really difficult so east top six was also my choice to this question so we're aligned i think this is going to be helter skelter from day one in the nba every game is going to matter because there there is some chalk but there is going to be at least one team that ends up in the play-in that if you told us today this team's going to be in the play-in it would be like holy cow that team is eighth in the east so you had nine teams for six spots i actually just i have 10 to be to be kind um and charlotte who's over under his 38 and a half was 11th uh for me i think that's appropriate for them i'd be surprised if they really butted into this discussion if they butt into the play-in i won't be surprised um i'm guessing that atlanta is the team i somewhat charitably put in the top 10 that you did not is that accurate no i had atlanta in there okay i'm looking through by uh i'm trying to figure out who the me to run through my my list i'll read i'll read you i'll read you the over unders just because there there's a clear drop off in the middle of this um so top five over unders are all within 48 and a half to 52 and a half new york 52 and a half i would lock them in i don't know if you disagree but they're a lot lock boston 50 and a half i am not locking them in no i think that it's not it's possible the knicks are my only absolute stone cold lock to be a top six team philly 49 and a half can't be locked just because there's so much uncertainty but they have a ton of talent even if in bead misses 55 games they just lebron jalen brown tyree smacks it's a lot of talent detroit 48 and a half a 60 win team is being downgraded to 48 and a half now a lot of this again is because of the lottery rules they actually might be my second lock just because they have a proven track record is like hey this might get ugly in the playoffs for us offensively but we with our defense and our formula if we're healthy cage healthy durin is going to be back one way or another i'm very confident um they just win a lot of games and cleveland 48 and a half those are the five top teams by biggest numbers then there's a three win drop to toronto 45 and a half indiana 43 and a half atlanta 42 and a half and if you had nine instead of those 10 and atlanta was not your omission i'm guessing orlando was the omission yeah i'm still hurt from last year as high as i was they do have a new coach mo so you know i i so here's the thing right and i like sweeney but my also thing was like we don't know what he is as an offensive coach we know what he is as a defensive coach everywhere he's gone he's been in charge of the defense for the most part and has done extremely well obviously we saw with san antonio's like we was in charge of the defense in dallas when they went to the the the finals if i'm remembering it correctly and everything but we don't know what they are off what he is offensively as a coach and that was their biggest problem was their offense and the defense was terrible last year everything was bad last year but like their offense was lack creativity and everything i will be i need to see that before i'm going to put them in the in this category so that was my my one uh caveat i i think that's fair i mean we know what their starting five is going to be because it's the same starting five as last year it's never healthy but this is what the starting five is sugs bane wagner banquero wendell carter jr their bench barring a leap from jace richardson or de silva leaves me a little a little nervous it's just it's just lacks pop offensively i mean i don't know if he's even going to play he could be behind goga as the third center anthony black could be a very spicy contract extension case for the next couple of months he's averaged 15 a game last year so he gives you a little pop i mean i don't it's just you know one or more of the starters are going to be injured constantly and the bench makes me a little nervous but i'm with you i just look at this team we've been waiting for so long for the wagner banquero combo to really click i mean it clicked to the point that can you actually build a top 10 offense out of this sugs is never healthy he's he's sort of the keystone to making the whole thing work i just don't know how they just don't their ceiling does not feel very high to me i think their floor is pretty steady because they're going to compete on defenses they always have i just don't i i i agree with them being placed in this sort of second tier but this is the most interesting race um the most interesting race in the league i think and i'll just say like odds are one of the four of boston philly detroit or cleveland is going to be in the play-in i don't know which one i don't know i think 50 and a half is high for boston i and i love them they are a regular season wins machine they're counting on mitchell robinson staying healthy uh quite a bit although you know kate as good as a backup uh obviously they have paul george and not jalen brown bill has talked himself into that that was one of my that was one of my favorite vacation trends was listening to bill's podcast and i was like oh my god i'm going to be in the play-in and seeing him gradually go from hating this trade to tolerating this trade to like maybe this is a genius move uh trade congrats to bill on that i don't know like i just one of one of those teams is maybe gonna well i don't know but because there's five and there's six spots so i think toronto i think toronto if this kawaii trade goes through is a very dangerous team uh that could win more like a lot of regular a decent amount of regular season games and you just can't wait to see how it goes and i think toronto i think toronto i think toronto is going to be one of the top five players in the league in indiana because they acquired one of the top five to six players in the league in indiana because they were in the finals a half second ago so it's going to be it's going to be spicy but i agree with you orlando and atlanta to me are like a tier lower and then charlotte is a tier lower than them yeah i think for charlotte is this might be a little bit of a step back here to take a massive step forward in the future with with the guy with the guys that they have with with the lamello trade that they made but i think when i look at it i had a i had cleveland as a lock they're the other team that i just think they have too much talent i just think there's too much talent there for them not to be in the top six and they finally plugged the the three spot with the payton watson move which i you know i really like for them you know which we'll see if payton watson is you know the the payton watson in january who went completely ballistic for the nuggets i don't even know if as much but i think what he brings to that team allows them to change their lineups a little bit more and and and not lose so much when they go to one big and i think that's going to be a real important thing for them of you know and i for me the teams that i'm kind of question mark like boston you know you mentioned mitchell robinson we also got to mention tatum like he didn't play game seven that's true and and we've never heard the reason as to why he was out for game seven we don't know if it was a setback with the achilles we don't know anything about it calf whatever we just don't know what it is you know and and i think that's something to keep an eye on with everything on top of mitchell robinson can he stay healthy paul george what can you get from him on the floor i know bill like you said bill's kind of bought into it and and like derrick white one of my absolute favorite players in the league do we have a bounce back offensively from like kind of a nightmarish shooting season for him last year like that's now kind of a requirement for this team to hit expectations yeah and i think that's a team that i'm looking at going like okay i don't know you know what's what's that going to look like in that i could see them getting a bunch of wins and i could also see it kind of them struggling a little bit in and out with guys and injuries and things and then when we get to a team um you know where you're kind of just like toronto has gotten better if this kawaii trade happens like i i would almost put them as a lock if if the kawaii trade happens it's hard to with just the pure fact of kawaii his best offensive season in a long time i think there's a lot of stuff and he almost seems in kawaii fashion a little bit more excited this season like the fact they saw him at blue jay games this year is is kind of like oh like it's almost like he's ready to there's something a little bit of a the slightest vibe change yeah and in that way where i'm looking at it going like wow that's pretty impressive so i think toronto is a team that's going to be really impressive if that kawaii trade goes through well and that so you're talking we're talking as if you're pencil it in top six if you for forced to pick would be new york boston philly detroit cleveland toronto a top six that does not include a team that was maybe an injury away from go at least going toe-to-toe in game seven of the nba finals like a year ago basically uh and it doesn't include the heat trading for janice and so maybe that is the top six that we're outlining and it's it's going to be more chalky than we expect but it's hard to discount the heat and the pacers and the magic they they just they do grind their they just grind and grind and grind and they grind their way to a respectable number of wins the hawks i i think are a little bit more volatile and interesting i mean they're going to be interesting but i i it's it's just a tough it's a tough field in these all right so that's that's interesting boston and philly are kind of the swing teams but the talent is the talent and i'm optimistic about both relatively so okay last homework assignment we're going to start doing the last homework assignment we're going to start doing the last homework assignment we're going to talk about most improved player um i have like 50 names written down but here's how we're going to do it i did this last year too i made you pick one player type from the following categories who could feasibly win most improved player player type number one a traditional most improved player typically third fourth year guy gets a bigger role makes a big leap those are the sort of classic central casting ones category number one is the most improved player and i'm going to talk number two out of nowhere deep cut wow that guy improved that much and i barely even thought about him most improved player and player type number three star player who butts his way into this conversation because he makes a big change to his game or just has another leap in him and my example from last year that i picked and boy did it not really work out was chet holmgren um all right so let's go category number one who's your central casting most improved player it's Brandon Miller for me from Charlotte, I think That's the, the guy who you just described it to T when you described central casting, right? Third, four year player. He's going to get a bigger opportunity now with LaMelo, you know, gone, he's going to get more reps on the ball. He's going to show more, you know, what he can do with the ball in his hands more often. They're going to need him to do a lot more offensively. I know they have Kobe white to help them with the playmaking and stuff, but they're all going to have to step up their playmaking level another notch. And I think that's the stuff we're going to start to see. Man, we saw flashes from him last season where I was like, damn, like, you know, there was the three headed monster and, and, and, and Charlotte, but you know, LaMelo was the center head and, and it was the guy kind of getting everybody going. Con got all the hype with, with rookie, you know, the run for rookie of the year and everything like that. I think he kind of Miller got lost a little bit in the shuffle of that stuff, but I think he showed enough for me last season with the way he's. And what I think is going to come, especially with the playmaking, I think that's going to be the guy that's going to have the best, you know, is central casting for me to win most improved. I don't, I'm betting you don't know this. He is on fan duel has the best odds of winning most improved player plus 800, which is not great odds. He was on my list, my short list for this category. I just think I'm look, I'm, I'm very optimistic. And I've said before, Speaker 1 : You know, I think it's going to be, I think it's going to be a win for him. I think it's going to be a win for him. I think it's going to be, I think it's going to be a win for him. suddenly is knocking down threes, shooting him at a high clip and knocking them down at the point where we're going nuts. But also if he can tap into what he was two years ago, where he's, you can facilitate offense through him a little bit, take a little bit of pressure off part and a little bit of pressure off of Mitchell during the regular season. I think there's a legitimate case to be made that he could have a chance at most improved. Obviously the three point shooting would be a big part of it as well. But I think if he can just go back to what he was two years ago, I think there's a legitimate chance. And he's one of those guys that we kind of look at go and establish star for the most part. Maybe I'm stretching the term star a bit, but like, I think that's a guy I look at going like, yeah, that's, that's who I think is going to have a good chance at it. That's a, that's a bold one. I like that. They're just going to be, I talked a lot about them last week with Rob Mahoney because of the Watson trade, they're going to be, there's going to be some wrinkles to iron out offensively when the two bigs and Watson are on the floor and hard and has the ball a lot and all that. But I mean, they're going to, they're going to be very, very good, but there's just going to be some sort of wrinkles and roll. Definition to iron out a bit. That's a good pick. I feel very good about my pick. I actually kind of expected you to have the same pick as me for this. My expectations almost could not be higher for Scotty Barnes. I think Scotty Barnes is the kind of stuff. Now you might say he's above this. He's a two time all-star fifth and defensive player of the year voting last year. He averaged 18 a game last year, 51% shooting 30% on threes. He actually averaged 19.3 the year before. And 20. So he's a two time all-star. I think he's a two time all-star. Available on Plus and Pro plans.