The Mystery of Q Lazzarus - 373

Hello horses. Hello horses. Join us for the Unsung Podcast. Who are you? My name is Mark. My name is Chris. I'm a writer, again, tracking down the stories, scenes, and unsung figures and heroes who have influenced music often from, with the mainstream, Mark, how you feeling? I feel warm, but I'm ready to go. It's going to say, so anybody watching this, thinking, "What's wrong with those two guys?" And on that podcast, this is what happens when Scotland gets above 25 degrees. Yes. So Chris, what were we doing this week? This week we're going to cover the enigmatic Q Lazarus, an attract called "Goodbye to the Holy Horses." Everybody knows that song, right? Well, you remember the metric from back in the days, who would be worked out if something was famous? Does my mum know it? Yeah. My mum almost definitely knows this song. Let's get into it then. Sometimes the tiniest Arabitles goes hell of a deep and such is a case with this track. Iconic track for the A.E. is "Goodbye Horses." I was just, I think, a normal amount of curious. This came on randomly and it's said he'd occasionally sort of see who was actually behind it. I knew it was like Q Lazarus. I just, you know, trivia, pub quiz, that's Q Lazarus. Didn't know the first thing about them. And I had no idea what was getting myself in it, really. Even after "Bloon" my mind on Wikipedia, I'll be at a do-thing like Wikipedia. It needs a couple of modifications. I discovered that a feature-length documentary was released less than a year ago. And number of months ago? Yeah, yeah. And I managed to get hold of it as well. Which was not all that easy because the director Eva Aragis Fuentes has as a understand that no formal distribution as of yet. And is it largely working under our own steam promoted? And just fairly astonishing, I mean, it haven't watched it given the terrific film that she has given us. It's tremendous. It really is. So that is, goodbye horses, that many lives of Q Lazarus will be drawn from that and a number of occasions throughout the course of this. Very, very much encourage you to go and seek it out. If you want to watch it in its entirety, you can pay for it on Vimeo and giving them out of work and the quality of the work. I think it's really worthwhile. Even itself, that sort of sense of injustice there about, you know, Eva struggling to get distribution. It actually maybe becomes a little bit analogous for the fortunes of our central subject. Q Lazarus, also known as Diane Lucky. But our enroad on the whole subject of Diane and the project Q Lazarus is mainly going to come via goodbye horses this song. I think most folks have probably heard us prudent, dreamy on Settling, new wave followed by, in fact, as an Settling. Is that just post-buffalobelle connotations? No, no, I think it's genuinely on Settling. I mean, the endrogyner of the voice in this track is striking to me. I was talking about our co-host, Vicki. She always assumed it was a female singer. I was quite the opposite. Actually, I don't know. I don't know. I guess it. I thought it was male or at most non-binary, kind of main vocal and keeping me kind of gender-bending 80s figures like Mark Ammond or Pete Burns or something like that. Yes. Well, the track itself was first released in 1988 under Q Lazarus in the Resurrection, which I guess was kind of the project that she had over… It's a bit princi. Yeah, it's a bit princi. It's princi, yeah. The right and the lyrics to this song are created to a chap called, well, even Garvey, who died in 2009. And we describe that as being quote, "about transcendence over those who see the world as only earthly and finite." The hostage represent the five senses from Hindu philosophy and the ability to lift one's perception above those physical limitations and to see beyond this limited earthly perspective. That's quite high-falutin. It's a dual-as-res in the Resurrection, where I actually originated in a full-bank system of, well, you can guard for yourself, producing a songwriter. Members, Gloriana. Gloriana, Galicia. Galicia. Galicia, Galicia. Galicia, where I'm going. That's what you're going, yeah. Janis Bernstein, Mark Barrett and of course, Cure herself. She was also occasionally created as Diane Lucky, creationally as Queeniana. Queeniana. Queeniana Lazarus and Queeniana Diana Lazarus. Lazarus with two Zeds, by the way. Yeah. And extending to the first and a good buy horses was released in 1991, following Silencer Alams and it was also released in 2013 and 2017. I'm a tiny label in New York site called Monami. Monami specializes in all these single obscure tracks and records. I mean, I don't know how you do that, but cool. Founder Monad Denahan. De-Dee-in. De-Dee-in. De-Dee-in. We're going to just butcher so many names. De-Dee-in this. De-Dee-in. Monami had a license to track for me in GM 2009 to try and basically assure that it was available. So maybe when that labels rep is for releasing obscure stuff, maybe that's what she does. Looks for stuff that's kind of falling out of print or is getting a bit harder to find that she likes a lot, licenses it and then re-releases it. A video to accompany that I generally released was also made in 1987 by Leslie Mentel and it was shot in 16 millimeter black and white and it is utterly spellbinding. It's a very, very good and the film that you can imagine, can I speak a little bit about the pro? It's actually just a little bit about the process of making that and it just seems like a charm in any way. Yeah. You know. The initial release of the song corresponded with that appearing in Jonathan Deme's previous film, "Married to the Mob" and it was on the official soundtrack for that film and that was in 1988. Why was "Married to the Mob" was a decent film, some a shell-fi film, vehicle really. The song really hit it big when it featured in "Silence of the Lambs" three years later. And "Silence of the Lambs" was one of the top, if not the top. I mean, genuinely debatably the top film of that year. And that was a good year. That was Terminator 2, Robin Hood, Prince of Thieves, stuff like that. It was probably one of the best films I've ever made. I think so, yeah, yeah. Certainly one of the best films in terms of enduring, you know, it's still an amazing film to watch. I think it's up there with Jaws, you know, in terms of like, go back to watch it again films. And "Goodbye Horses" is a song with a key to a very key scene of a Buffalo Bill, the serial killer in that dancing in front of a mirror. I think it's a fucking song. I believe I'm not songs by David Boy, we're also being considered for that scene. And it had originally been rehearsed to the song "Horses Struck" by Bob Sager. And it was a very different song. I'll tell you that. Ted Levine, who played Buffalo Bill in that film, feels it "Goodbye Horses" improved the whole scene by making it all in his words a bit more feminine and strange. The scene has subsequently made many lists of iconic moments of soundtrack and it was included in, I think it's time out, top 20 moments of all time. Despite the success and the infamy of this track, as I say, my mum probably even knows this track, "Cue Lazarus" have no other hits. But that's not to say that they were just a one-hit wonder, because "Cue Lazarus" didn't actually officially release any other music from this point on. And in fact, "Cue Lazarus" vanished almost literally, not just the project, but the person herself, "Cue, Quiana, gone for years." Friends, bandmates and family alike totally confounded. To such an extent, the "Cue Lazarus" was even the subject of a very popular subreddit, which is called "Unresolved Mysteries". There's loads of cool stuff on there. But that's like crowdsourced lists to try and solve cold cases and missing persons. And the "Cue Lazarus" one had hundreds of entries and people trying to work out what happened. I mean, you could have just looked at a census, because it was still live in New York City, but I digress. In 2018, "Days and Confused", which is now "Days Digital" ran article by Tom Asgorton musing on the way to "Cue Lazarus". Yeah, so this is "Cue and On". Yeah, "Cue and On", yeah. Like a fun, yeah. Like a fun. He had been set up for traces for her for almost a year when he wrote the article. And his article was actually particularly fascinating because he actually thought it was quite a little bit of a volume-garvy, a bit of skin ink. Of course, of "Cue" herself. Yeah, I didn't really make much progress regarding "Cue", but he did unpack stuff about "Bill" that I've not been able to read anywhere else. I mean, his article set the ball rolling, actually, in this. In 2019, there were another article. - Are you saying confused? - Yeah, it's a confusing confused. I'm not a article titled "Sergeant for Chulazaris" by a writer called, or a writer who called himself "Kelsey Chaps" that you might not be the actual name. - Yeah. So the touch, like you said, the touch paper was a Latin investigation when, quote, on August 9th, 2018, the handle at A.K.A. Chulazaris appeared on Twitter with a display name, Diane Lucky, and the bio of the red. 57 years young, I sang a few songs in the A's and 90's. That same account, in tweeted at "Dason Confuse", presumably on the back of "Cortons" article, and then also DM Kelsie Chaps, like themselves. - I said, "The message is really interesting." - Yeah. - And said, "Hi, sorry to bother you, "I just wanted people to know that I am still alive. "I have no interest in singing anymore. "I'm a bus driver in Staten Island. "I have been for years. "I see hundreds of passengers every day, "so I'm hardly hiding or dead. "I've given Thomas Gordon from the days "my phone number and address just to confirm I am real. "Sorry if this is a boring end to the story. "I am going to come off Twitter as soon as I find it hot." (laughing) Well, that would have been, you know, a head of a time. Please take note of this message in case anyone else is interested. Thank you. And quotes. The magazine itself was kept covered in cat fashion, but according to the info they found in the New York Post in 2015, "Hasidic on the bus company was searched." Yeah, by a Stan Island bus driver named Diane Lockey, who claimed he defused to hire female drivers with things began to seem potentially legit. - So I understand that yeah, Hasidic Jews, a little bit sexist, and she had gone for work and then took them to court, and that got her name in the press, and days confused, found the record of this, and we're like, "Oh, maybe this is actually real, "Stat and Island, Diane." Yeah. Another filmmaker at the time, Sean Gallagher, was also in the trail of Q. Gordon had called the number that he was given, you know what it says in Q's DM, that she'd given him a phone number. He'd called it, but the woman who answered, denied she was Diane Lockey, and so the trail kind of went cold. Kelsey Chaps that got hold of the given address, which was on Stan Island, she went there and actually spoke to two young folk outside the house, who confirmed to her that a Miss Lockey lived in there, and one of them even said that a publicity photo of Q Lazarus that he was showing, he was like, "Oh, yeah, that could be her." But when Kelsey went to the door of the apartment, a man with a grey ponytail answered, and said that she must be mistaken, no, Q Lazarus was there. In hindsight, I mean, Q Lazarus Diane definitely wrote that tweet. She definitely wrote that DM, or it seemed so anyway, it's all very accurate. But after dropping all those breadcrumbs, it does seem that she slightly got cold feet. Yeah. Even more interesting as well, Kelsey later learned from a photo that she came across that the man who answered the door was Diane's husband, Bob Lange, who's in the documentary quite a bit, and one of the young people she spoke to outside had been there in Son James. That's what it does not. So in the documentary, we mentioned previously, we actually look quite a lot of this episode to that tremendous documentary. And as you said, the start episode is called "Goodbye Horses, the Many Lives of Q Lazarus." It was released in 2024 and directed by. Ever a Regis, or if a Regis Fuente is depending on the timing, she's adopted a name? She's a Mexican-American filmmaker who was born in the Netherlands and has a number of Celerbade's smaller scale films, turn name. The film is a bit of a passing project forever. Beyond the tragic sudden passing of Diane in 2022, during the filming, the project was hugely impacted by COVID. And you can certainly see that in the way that towards the end of the film, it becomes what looks like iPhone. Forage basically. Yeah. It's a slightly better cinematographer. Yeah, totally. And you can see that. It's very clear that the difference is stark. I think even if you're not a film buff, you could probably still see that. But she was eventually able to finish it due to Kickstarter funding, which is pretty cool. But the story of it's Genesis is actually really interesting. It's told a little bit in the film, which we do recommend you to watch after you've watched this, of course, all of the sudden. But like so many of us, Eva encountered "Goodbye Horses" via Cernace Ralams. And as a DJ in New York City, she used to regularly spin the track. Yeah. She had read the article "Indeed, and Confused" from early 2019 that we mentioned, Kelsey Chapsick one. And she knew that Kool-Azeris had been a taxi driver at one point. And this is quite remarkable. One day in 2019, Eva's on her way out. So she calls it "Avaya," which is basically a now defunct equivalent to Uber. And she gets in-- and the driver's in African-American women in her late 50s. And she's playing "Harvest," the album by Neil Young. And also has a stack of CDs in the cab. Did I see you down in the young girls' town with your mother in so much pain? I was almost there at the top. So the taxi driver is obviously a music fan, not just listening to background radio. Eva did sort of start to join the dots, albeit didn't want to jump the gun. At one point, the driver took the wrong turn. And when asked, said, oh, this isn't my town that she's from Staten Island. So there's another point in that. And Eva decides to probe and ask her, oh, did he ever go and see Neil Young? The driver says, oh, no, my concert days are over. At this point, Eva just takes a gal, and says, how about Kool-Azeris? Did you ever see her? The driver hesitated. And then I said, I heard of her, and then changed the subject. Across the course of the taxi ride, I believe they actually ended up singing along with the Neil Young stuff together. And I think Eva mentioned that the voice also seemed quite familiar. When they stopped to get out, or when they stopped forever, to get out, the driver leaned round and offers her hand. This is nice to meet you. I'm cute. And despite the fact that, as I understand it, the car was blocking traffic. Eva manages to give her her number, and then the part ways. And I don't think Eva really expected to get a call at that point. As it happens on the night out, that she was going to that night, the DJ at the club plays goodbye horses. And so she goes up to talk to the DJ and says, I actually bumped into this woman today, and the DJ doesn't believe her. And I'm not sure of that, because the DJ was aware of this incredible mystery around the Q Lazarus he's disappearance. Or if it was just general skepticism of it. Ah, yeah, very, very, very good eye. There you go. We should also probably refer back to, we kind of dropped it into the mix there. But yeah, Dan Lucky passed away before the completion of this film. So in the film does feature that. And it's very emotional, and it's really sudden. You don't really want to go into too much detail about that. It seems a bit macabre, but it's not really relevant to the discussion of the music. But again, you'll see the details of that and the impact if you go and watch that film. Yeah, so coming back to the story, the next day at 10 a.m., if I guess a phone call from Diane, aka, and apparently she did dream of performing and that dream included Eva. As a reasonable superstitious person with a belief in fate, she takes out the sign and then makes the call. I'm inclined to think that the story, if she met Jonathan Deme or Deme, a man who changed her life as much as any, perhaps influence a decision to reach out to this cap customer. That influenced her superstitiousness, regardless. Totally. Yeah, because it feels, it actually feels like, I thought I'm also a such a person either, but it feels as though, yeah, this is kind of weird, like you would definitely. If you're already of that mindset and susceptible, then that would be like, oh, last time I had an amazing encounter and my taxi had changed my life, so maybe I should. So we'll explain that shortly, actually, what happened with Jonathan Deme. Yeah, ultimately they filmed together for three years from 2019 until Cue's on time with death in 2022. As Chris mentioned, if I end up, we're 100 hours of footage, but the frostcut and the frostcut of the film was three hours long. Yeah, I think it's about another 45. Yeah, it is another 45 year. The plan for the film was to go through the history of the music, unpacking the missing years and then try to enable, like, connecting Cue with her old bandmates and then ideally create a union and ultimately a performance. Yeah. But from then on, the hope was that she would return to perform and record in and then that Alasadis element would form like a resonant theme of the story. She would rise from a deadlocked Alasadis. Yeah, yeah. I think they have a kind of way to sort of like nudge fate along to kind of lean into that angle. But that wasn't to be-- I want to put the band back together. Regardless of what it really is, I want to work with you. Yes. Yeah. I love you, Shane. You don't know how much. And we also want to do a concert in New York. Well, yeah, now-- I think you've seen me watch in the last 20 years. I haven't sung at all. I haven't done anything. I told you, I walked off the planet. I did. What you needed, Eva, and it's the journalistic Slyther, was I need not just to know what happened to Cue Alasadis, but given the order of mystery. But also to find out who that person was, some years later, with the benefit of all their efforts. And a few Alas grabs here and there. We now have a fairly complete picture of what happened to her. So who was Cue, who was Dan? Born in New Jersey in 1966, they were a World War II veteran. Dan Lucky was one of seven kids. She went to be a singer from the age of 12. After going to see bubbling brown sugar, which was a stage show in New York. It was a medley of famous songs by famous African American performers. She also realised she wanted to live there as well. At this point Dan wasn't sure if she preferred the idea of performing Broadway or of performing rock music. So she got involved in our church choir to get things going. She'd grown up in a religious household and a church-based gospel music environment. Baptist family. Yeah. While our sister, who's also a teller, he's singing, wanted to emulate people like Dion Warwick, Diana apparently always wanted to be Rod Stewart. So there you go. It all comes back to Glasgow. At 18, she moved to New York City and to the South Bronx, which, man, we talked about it on the no way of episode. It was a tough, tough place. Her family were not happy about her, not going to college either. No, no. She became a taxi driver as the flexibility of having your own cab meant she could do things like going to recordings when required. Rap was just kicking off at the time and she did a bunch of back-in vocal work in studios, but she was kind of unfulfilled and so she started to pen her own stuff. So very early on, she realised that her forte was kind of a lot of fortain her taste. She was reeling quite heavily towards rock music. Rod Stewart? Well, she talks about wanting to be a part of the female ACDC or Morehead, which I can kind of say to be honest. I think our voices kind of are recent, often compared to Grace Sleck of Jefferson, Edda Plain. Yep. Yep. And that's probably quite evident on tracks like Wayland. Yeah, it's not so obvious on Goodbye Horsey's people are like, "What?" But when you hear the other examples of her singing, there is a much more understandable comparison. I think sometimes she sounds a bit like Danzig. Yes, actually, you know it's funny, you say that, I did think Danzig at point. Just taking out, he's taking out Fractured Blues, Krunor. Yeah. You know, and those totally that vector. Yeah, no, absolutely, that did come up. And the track tracks like Hellfire and Summer Timer from that period. That's an early period in music, before I'm going to show along to a back-and-track. Then a friend, Dan, seems like some character, by the way. He would dance during the performances. Some of those early appearances were actually pretty edgy and Dan McCulles, people like fucking in the corner of the room, they'll queue dragged him around in handcuffs during a song called Slave, which is a really good story. And one day she meets William Bill Garvey at a wood east side party. They head off, they start hanging out and they start writing music together. And not long after, she's just come out of work on a long shift, like 14 hours, and Bill calls her and as I come in and do vocals for the song. She's probably quite exhausted after a long day of driving the cab, but she goes along and does it, and then the rest is history, it becomes the song "Goodbye Horses." Yeah, so as Mark says, she was working as a taxi driver, and by the way, it's not a small woman. By the way, she apparently beat the shit out of two people who tried to rob her at one point as well. Amazing. Well, going back to something we touched on earlier on in the Garden of Jonathan Demia, an encounter that changed our life going forward. So she's working as a taxi driver. It's a snowstorm in New York in late 1985. It's quite a rocket of images, isn't it? Yeah. And she picks up the director Jonathan Demia and the producer Arthur Baker on just a random, you know, cab stop. And they were actually on their way back from working on a video for Stephen Zance, Antia Partite tracks on Sydney at the time. So she can hear them in the back seat discussing film and music, obviously, haven't come off that set. She drops off Baker, and then she kind of gets the courage to strike up a conversation with Jonathan Demia, asking him if he works in the music industry, and he says, well, you know, sort of I'm a director and working film and she plays them on a demo tape. And he was really struck by it. Amazing that he hadn't heard of her before. He then featured her song, Candle Goes Away, which might or might not have been on that tape. I'm not exactly sure what was on the tape she played on, but he features that song and is 1986 film Something Wild. And then you would go on to use good by horses and two subsequent movies. And Q also appeared in person in his movie, Phil Adelfea, singing a version of "Haven" by Talking Heads. Yeah, I mean, the story around her actually appearing on that film is really great and is worth watching the film for as well. I'm not going to reveal that here, but it's definitely worth looking at. The song that we're going to ask her, the film, I'm the film, obviously. I think the film did, didn't it? Sounds like the lambs. Yeah, we saw that. So despite the models? Yeah, despite the models that were successful, the movie opportunities by 1988 for straight by Hitting a Brick Wall and the music industry in the USA, she moved to London. She built a hard rock, a soft rock, heavy metal band under the name of Cule Azaris and the Resurrection again. Well, I think she actually, I couldn't quite work out because I was straight to see Ticket Stubs from back then. If it was Cule Azaris and the Resurrection, did they just go Cule Azaris and some Tickets as well? Even so, it spilled funny, but that could just be a stupid promoter. Yeah, plenty of us about. I don't want to love you anymore and mum and ever said our songs from that you got. It's probably worth seeing actually the soundtrack for the film as available. Yes, we will give that a shout out later. I love checking out. Yeah, but a lot of these rare tracks that we're talking about are on a collection that came out following this documentary on secret bones. We'll mention that in a bit more detail surely. But those songs have really a big 80s hair metal power rock energy. The band were actually still going in the UK when singers of the lambs came out and then they gradually started to gig that tune, even nobles kind of an odd with their older material. Yeah, I mean, it definitely doesn't fit with the kind of AC/DC poison type stuff they're doing. But I mean, if you've just written this song and this film is this big, how can you not play it? Exactly. This was also the cuss of the cuss with like Brit Popatman and it's interesting because in that compuation there are some baggy songs. Absolutely. And it's like Wild. And a couple of dance songs as well. So that a dance response is happening and then it needs at that point as well, both here and New York as well. So slowly they are, their sound began to morph in and that kind of stone rose. It got a bit more man-taste, though. Yeah, really dead to her. So tracks like Bang Bang and I see your eyes have like kind of floppy early 90s hybrid energy. So I think that's what I think is going to be a little bit more man-taste. I think that's what I think is going to be a little man-taste. I mean, there's an argument that you can maybe get away with at these days but you definitely couldn't get away with that back in those days. So I run the bit 1993 in the time of Philadelphia. I actually returned to the USA because she felt that perhaps a time in was right for something to happen there. But musically as we're saying, she was just in a kind of strange place. She was working on music now with that. Gabby mentioned earlier on, Dan, aka Danny Z or Danny Z by that point. Danny Z. And it was totally on the nose 1990s electronic pop. Really cheesy but also the kind of thing that was doing really well. tracks like the timers right, break it's there and a love list are good examples of that sound and you know there are track called only you can light the candle that could easily have been on and now that's what I call music collection from like 93 94 you wouldn't have batted an eyelid. She clearly felt extremely disillusioned that yet again another project that this project with Dan wasn't succeeding she said they were getting so much reassurance from people around them that what you're doing is amazing whether or not you like the style is different but the quality of what they were doing this absolutely deserves to break through and I think she was I get the sense from the documentaries she was getting really emotionally fatigued she's talking about it she's you can sort of physically see her body language change as well and yeah and she was medicating these you know various emotions and fatigue and stress where drugs drink and a lot of partying. Yeah so as you have probably not a cow at this point there's been quite a lot of lack of progress in music for her yeah she's been at it for I guess a good 5 6 7 in a structured way she's had big moments that have been quite for tourists but she's not had to structure you know like a contract I mean she's still only got one track out at this point and a bit of drift stylistic way as well you know so she struggled for the years to try and make progress in the industry she was very tall she wasn't slim she had dreadlocks she was definitely not working in Houston yeah and she was talking rock music and metal music and not R&B and so which I guess what a lot of legal producers would have been classifying like a black woman to do you know yeah especially for a gospel background I think she said that the the border list just said that to her face this is this is not what you should be doing yeah we don't know how to market you which is I mean she obviously struggled to try and get producers and label to pay attention because they didn't like you said they don't know how to market to me that just seems absolutely bananas that's a massive unique selling point you know there's something something big could happen there yeah it behind-sight it seems mental and it is a bit odd because somebody that you know Turner had had had had success in the rock sphere but that's point by the early 90s but she also had quite a large and illustrious career before that I think that's the thing Tina Turner's career completely changed lane in the 80s and she'd be associated with rock music you know power ballads and rock music but she wasn't coming from obscurity yeah yeah out many you know yeah I can meet Tina and I just off him so strikes me as it all happening during the hair metal era in the years before skon can antsy be blow up well see that's one of the names that popped in my head as well because skon can and say we're you know black front women in a rock band seemed like a real really jarring for people that weren't like familiar with those kind of women let alone black women in those contexts so skon can and see stuff maybe I don't think they necessarily blow the doors open but what they showed was that things were changing but perhaps Q Lazarus had just been a little bit too soon yeah well we're like yeah and so I think we should discuss the names a little bit Q a Krianna as we said Diane Krianna by the way seems to mean I looked it up thank you in the northern American indigenous language or family of languages called alitic and she said it meant thank you and so I was like I wonder what language you're referring to and that's the only one I can find so it's a pretty niche reference first off we've talked with this in the show before but I find it very interesting when a musical persona acquires such prominence in anyone's life I've amused a lot on how Farook Bolsara might have reflected on Freddie Mercury and vice versa how Freddie Mercury reflected on his birth identity of Farook Bolsara is there an element of schism that's unavoidable when your musical persona grows that big David Boye I mean we have the original person go like wait that that thing is a really right and that's a fascinating phenomenon it's talking about the schism aspect of you could be associated let's say one aspirational version of self with one label and the perhaps unwanted reality of yourself with the other so the the negative feelings get attached to your earlier self that wasn't good enough the good bully that school you know where is the version of you that was hitting the headlines and was popular and was loved and lauded we praise all associated with the new name and I think that's just a it's a little bit sad and some some levels but it's also quite understandable I think Q Lazarus is almost entirely conflated with the fantasy and the aspirational elements of her career can be therefore sort of imply that the bad stuff happened to Dan maybe you know the good stuff happened to Q Lazarus I don't know but on that note as well you have to excuse me if it sounds a bit glib but I did it's unavoidable I'm sure most of us probably flicked an eyebrow and we heard it but I want to reflect on Dan Lucky's name Lucky once we learn about her how her life went off the rails you know it's easy to be like was she actually all that lucky I would suggest yes I think that Dan actually had some remarkable luck in fact noteworthy luck that we've already mentioned I mean we can safely I think call it luck that brought Jonathan Deme into her taxi that night you know without again to obsessively philosophical about it that is luck that is really good luck a rising director on the path to making an all-timeer movie that would need a song for a key scene and then another subsequent classic in the form of Philadelphia of that era that would include a physical appearance by that artist in the context of the film he was also a man he didn't he wasn't just like somebody that pissed off I mean he had around four different movies the same song in two films and he went back to our multiple times made sure that she was personally paid for her work he was attentive he was thoughtful likewise everything that led to the documentary we're talking about whatever that was a major a small major of fantastic luck that a filmmaker who had already had a conversation about making a Q Lazarus film with one of our friends got into that same women's taxi of all the taxis in New York which is quite a big place you may have heard that somewhere by contrast I think the things that went wrong in Dan's career Q's career and life were less to do with luck and more related to bad decisions whether hers or whether completely out with her control you know the simple act to not get picked up by these labels is somewhat baffling given her talent but as this entire podcast can confirm you know it's absolutely not unusual that a very talented act does not get signed the music industry is we can confirm nowhere near a meritocracy one key decision in our story was when she was not included on the Philadelphia soundtrack somebody made that decision they made it for a reason and that was a massive blow to her career at that juncture and I think to her most certainly I know to her morale again the decision is maybe slightly confusing but it's not luck in the true sense of just luck and yeah and by her own account when you watch the film that decision played a huge part in our state of mind when she suddenly vanished yeah and I think another key aspect of our kind of disillusionment and sudden disappearance I certainly like to her love life as well yeah so in the film she talked about a lot a chap called Richard and the kind of heartbreak that she endured in that relationship and London Diane had met a promoter called Richard and whom she describes in the film as the love of her life to that point and he hasn't involved in the film in any way and if I spoken about the hesitancy in terms of approaching him for it not at least due to being potentially unsettling yeah for cute sorry upsetting but also due to reputation and the role in her life he acted as a manager for a while which was not a good idea and queues on words he was a regular drug user and with him she goes from being mostly abstinent to a heavy user her band members and friends some as a negative influence some of her band members from London at time actually say that as well in the film and her life begins to spiral in a sort of debt and dissery and the band was saying she started to become hugely unreliable there are some takes of some of the band songs on that record where her voice is a little bit fucked you know and you need to wonder what is that she's never usually like that Richard was with her when she moved back to America in 1993 however he was getting homesick and quite distant yeah partly he'd full of Delphiol at one point he said something happened he's mother and he just went back to the UK and that was it for them just gone and she was totally devastated him leaving like that combined with her finding out that her version of heaven wasn't going to be in full full of Delphi soundtrack again bath on decision with people like Bruce Springsteen, Bill Jo, Sadie Neil Young, you know I was a huge huge deal huge deal wasn't she had to manage alone that's right because not only had he gone and she'd gotten this news but she was dealing with his loss but she was dealing with this news without him there to help her deal with that news yeah and then she hadn't even told her friends that he wasn't coming back so imagine the imagine how much that compounds at the sort of shame and the pressure of your friends being like, "But he's coming back, right?" "Yeah, he's coming back." "Are you sure he's coming back? Are you okay?" "Yeah, he's coming back." But yeah, he wasn't coming back. - And then it just started to unravel? - Yeah. This part of Dan's life is documented really well in the film. We'll just sort of trace through it 'cause it's not massively musical, but it is quite instructive. And it owes a lot to our candor and the interviews. Following the heartbreak at Heartbreak's, actually, plural of 1993, the friends did describe seeing a dramatic change in her. She spiraled into drug abuse. She went back to New York City and cut off contact from her band members, most of her friends and her family. From that point on, there were details of all sorts of dark times. She went into sex work. She struggled for money and spent what she did have on drugs. At one point, she sort of re-enacted, stealing a local dealer's crack supply. And we're not talking like a couple of bags, they were talking like a full fuckload of crack. - Cueals. - Yeah. And she was spotted. And this led to the dealer, coming to her apartment to try and get her, despite her sitting in the apartment in the dark, absolutely silent for ages like days. And she eventually called the cops and an actual shootout ensued in the hallway between the cops and the dealer. And I think maybe somebody was with the dealer. And after this, I mean, she escaped that shootout on harm. She kind of put on a bit of a performance with the police like she did know what was going on. But the neighbors were kind of wise to it and they chased her out the building. And she ended up living in the streets like literally. She lived in homeless shanties. She lived in church arts. She does meet her future husband, Bob, at this point. But she also gets caught selling drugs and winds up in Rikers Island. You know, and she's in jail and she learns that she's pregnant. Our son, James, was born with traces of cocaine in him. And she basically ends up in one of these kind of core ordered drug. What do you call it? Detox. That arms rehab programs. Yeah, but it's a long thing. You know, Bob struggles to take care of James. Do you have Bob having the slate in validity and having an awful lot of work as well? She convinces her family to custody of James. After some time, she vows to leave the legal system and get her son back in Rasm, which she eventually does. She, I think it takes her about a year to satisfy the criteria for child services, but she does and she gets them back. He's six years old, when he comes back. And James becomes a significant figure in the film. And obviously in her life, from this point on, he's a passionate guy. He's quite political, much to his mom's admiration. We see him during the Black Lives Matter protests and stuff with her. James, it turns out, didn't even know his mom would be in a singer until he was well in his teens. I did like one of the reflections by Eva in an interview where she feels that Diane felt motherhood redeemed her for a lot of the things that she'd done for what had gone wrong, for what she considered failings. It's a little bit towards end of the film where Q's interacting with Eva's daughter. And he's cute. You can totally see there's a shared bond there, family wheel between them, you know. And one of her interviews ever says that Q told her openly the reason I knew I could trust you to do the film was because you were a mother. Amazing. So let's talk about her collected works, which when the documentary was released, it was accompanied by a compilation soundtrack of the previously unreleased music that was featured in the film. All of it is on the list apart from one song, of course. "Goodbye Horses." Yeah, there's another version of "Goodbye Horses" on it. It's really good. Yeah, I can't knew. The new way of the original is longer as well. So thankfully Diane's the start of "Happy" had maintained a collection of our work, including all the images, the art, the recordings, the demos. I think I read that she gave her like a big bag of cookies. That's right. It's like 40, just like-- 40 demo pieces. Yeah, that's the stuff. And this was because during the film "A Philadelphia", Abby was acting as Q's manager and thus gathered it all together. And when Q went missing, she kept the safe storage. She just had to have a sub-blown that's going to take care of you. Yeah, because I mean, that stuff would be lost to the universe if it had been left with Q. And when Eva came in the scene, she helped digitize other corns in this collection. She remarked our favorite day of filming was when the two of them sat together going through all the tracks. Q mused on each song, including the backstory and all the anecdotes. Eva also says that the day was pognin as she was. Q can realize in real time that she was actually quite talented. Yeah. Yeah. And Eva also conveniently enough as friends with Caleb Bratan, the founder of Bratan, the founder of Sacred Bones, I was able to. A friend of the pod? Right, the Ben Power blank mass. That's his label. So she was able to facilitate the release of the Q as a list collection/documentary soundtrack on that label. And that's like, that's really no small achievement, to be honest, because the label has previous examples of this kind of costume. This work, prestigious stuff, man. I mean, Alan Vega, David Lynch. Yeah. So, and it's also got a long-standing association with soundtracks. It does, yeah. Friend Ben Power, like you said. Which is really great for Q's surviving family. And it's kind of a shame for her though, because she's not able to see it. The album was said to have been her main ambition. And there's a bit in the document, too, they talk about that, and try to get her right back. So we did a lovely little bow. For her, just to be alive when she put out an album, I know that maybe seems like a modest ambition, but it meant a lot to her and it never actually happened. It's something a lot of musicians just never do, regardless of how dogged they are, you know? Yeah, another shame for her can be seen in the matter of royalties or lack of. 91 million plays on one version of the song. One version, Spotify alone. So, regarding Goodbyhorses, it was obviously initially used in a couple of very prominent films that appeared in others, too, including sort of self-referential and ironic usage. You might remember the scene of Jay Danson, too, in Clerks, too. Which is a homage. I mean, it's affectionate, it's because they love it. They later appeared in video games, including International Best Cell or Grand Theft Auto 4. That's where I remember it most from. Not that Hanson's sound as their lambs, but I haven't played that game quite a lot. Yeah, well a lot of younger generation people were like, oh, I know that song already, and then they don't really agree. They've been not seen in sound as their lambs. Ideas. It was also used in multiple adverts, including a huge advert for Gucci that featured one of the Kardashians. So there's a lot of money changing hands in that situation. Because Eva's own DJ and my club going, we'll test it. It remains a hugely popular song for DJs across the planet. There are countless cover versions by some fairly notable artists, Airborne Toxic Event, crosses, Chino Moreno's project. There's a really good job of that song, I would say. One of the rear releases also featured John Hopkins, who we've talked about in the show before. And it's various iterations, as you've mentioned there, it's well over a hundred million plays just on Spotify. And copies of the single continue to change hands for upwards of a thousand dollars. The combined royalties of this track must be enormous. Must be. And other than payments from Jonathan Deme for the initial use of it in his two movies, Dan Lucky never saw up any of those. As of very recently, and actually thanks largely to Eva's film, "Help It In Moved In Needle" on attempts to revere some of those rights to her. Dan's family at least now receive a much overdue portion. But it is a fraction of the revenue that has been accrued on that song over the decades. Long time fans of the podcast, when all we often touch upon this subject of royalties and where they go and why the other way they are. So let's talk about why in particular, she gets no royalties for this song. And it's because the song, "Goodbye Horsey's" is universally created to William Garvey or Bill. Bill Garvey, is she new? But will he, as he's created? So Thomas Gordon's original 2018 article for "Dazard Confuse" says that Garvey Co was the band's chief songwriter who, according to some friends and record label owners, had fallen on hard times and a lot of part of his career and had a tumultuous relationship with Q. Garvey actually suspected that she was dead. And had tried to find out there been 90s without any luck. Didn't try after that. Yeah, partly. A close friend of Garvey had a Bill Proffer, told Dazed, "Honestly, he had never had a good thing to say about her and just saw Q as an instrument. He wrote and performed the music and thought she had taken advantage of way past what was necessary, hinted that she was a drug addict and that aside from that, he never talked much about her." He said more, "I'll quote also details if he was seen as an eccentric and volatile character even by a word, nurses on his deathbed and hospital." Yeah, apparently he would, what was it, John Waters? He would have these really eccentric dance parties in his ward and he would be incredibly abrupt and loud on the phone and they just said he was a real character, a way of reputation for being a little bit difficult. Good by Horses was actually played it as funeral in 2009, according to Arabella, the person he mentioned, he died a week before he was scheduled to sign all royalties of the song over his best friend, collaborator and one time housemate Veronica Red. Arabella said there has a strange sister and now gets any money from that song and we've seen the leases happen that he in no way would have wanted. What does that mean? I think she's suggesting that his family milked it once he was gone. Veronica, the person who was about to inherit those rights, disputes that fact, though, says that Garvey and his sister were reconciled at a time he was in. his death. Before William passed, they were talking again. It is true he never had a will, but it was what he wanted. I believe his family takes care of his estate now. And Garvey was meticulous when pursuing royalties. He actually notoriously sued MGM because Seth puts his name. Farland. Mike Farland used it in family guy supposedly without permission. In the film, Gloria and Anna Galicia, a backing singer, the cute and bow both work with. Also status that Cuba is responsible for some of the iconic keyboard lines in that track. That's actually really good bit of film. It's also a really key detail. Very much so. Excuse the pun there, but it's a very important detail when it comes to disputing, you know, writing credits and things like that. She actually refers to her as QAnna. A fourth name in the mix here. Gloria and Anna says that Cuba played her casio using a sci-fi setting to specifically create the spasmy. I'll tell you that thread throughout the tune. Is the second best hook in the song perhaps part from the vocals? That little bit is super iconic as well. It's not that, okay, it's not the chorus vocal line, but it's right up there in terms of identifiable parts. So yeah, Gloria and Anna had a little casio keyboard and yet had a sci-fi setting on it that I believe Q was just goofing about on and she was like, "Oh no, this is it, this is it." And she started playing it along. Did she do the take? It's on the record. I don't know that, possibly not, but she certainly has a witness that says that she helped conceive of that key part in that song. Yeah. So without being a case, it's actually even more unforgettable that she was cut out with royalties in the song. The vocal and the key part, like you just said, from a crude musical law perspective, like you said, those are the two main features of the song. I think so, yeah. It isn't much without them and I think you're right. Even the new wave version still hinges on those things, you know? So following Garvey's death in 2009, one of my records licensed the song for the release, as we spoke about earlier on, and it's found out more than a dead end said that she'd been looking for Q for many years, but to no avail. And the film, Diana and James, I've seen reacting with frustration to the site of Monomy Records selling the song online without her knowledge. Wow. I mean, who put this on the internet? I don't have no idea. Monomy records. I can't. I have links. And they have links to you and Alp music and you on Spotify. So she has my image on her record label, my music, and let's go to, let's go to Q.Las, take on that. It's a 12 inch single and she is $13 and it's sold out. How do you feel about that, son? I understand how you haven't been paying for all this time. Oh, who's this here? Two demo version. Who has the demo? I don't have the demo. She has the demo or they have the demo transferred from Q's original. Quick, keep part of the film, I think. Yeah. It's hard to know where to fall on that because Mona Deagan could be completely sincere. She licensed the song from MGM and Good Faith and released it and claims that she tried to find her and couldn't find her and to be fair. Her family and her friends couldn't find her. So it can't have been all that easy to find her. So don't want to take sides there. You do see them being a little bit upset in the film. But without more information, I'd just have to take that out of face value. Yeah. And you know, well, the recent progress on royalties is kind of welcome to the viewer, the Inescapable Noise that Diane herself never got to enjoy any such respect. A reward is actually quite a difficult thing. It's all I think. And there, I mean, there are just so many things running through the story. Resident themes definitely didn't include that reassuring Lazarus Dream in the sense of resolution that initially drove the documentary. Yeah. So the thing that I think have a pictured being the central unifying theme of that film actually put you in up where all these offshoots, regarding rejection, feelings of failure, this issue with copyright being basically disappeared by not being included in the credits and stuff. In terms of what I see is the resident themes in the film. This is maybe a good moment to observe how Cue still had the thirst for reboot in her career. As we say, as the mission was really to try and reunite her with the bandmates in England, you actually see her, I think it's like a Skype call or a Zoom call with the drummer. And you're saying, "Oh, yeah, how are you getting on?" "Well, we're going to do this. We're going to do this." You know, that does not go to plan. There was clearly very much a sense of unfinished business in her part. Despite decades of being outside the limelight and to some extent being outside of her own life. So I think with the catalyst of Eva's approach, it seems fairly evident that Cue had not found, nor had made in her piece with the way her musical career had panned out and arguably ended. I'd like to speculate a bit on why that is. We're not psychologists, but I do think there are some idle musings to be done on the way that brushes with fame can exacerbate the sense of frustration in a way that a simple failure to succeed might not. It seems to me that people who try to make it in music and simply never get anywhere are perhaps better placed to simply step away from it. I used to be like, "You know, you band, but that was it." If it always remained remote, if it always remained an unrealistic ambition to some extent, even a fantasy, having never had that taste, it's maybe easier for them to quit it. I think there's an Echrist parallel here. It might have been more appropriate to call her Cue Echrist than Cue Lazarus. I think getting that taste, having those opportunities, known where it felt like to be recognized as a talent, and even, I think, also it's telling the way she left that breadcrumb trail, those tweets, those kind of things. There was a little ember still burning in her waiting to be rekindled. It was, I know she said, "I'm not interested at all in singing anymore in that initial reach out, but I don't actually believe it." Yeah, I don't have a Lichrist thing, man, because Echrist was Chubris. He flew to Cofft to Sun because he thought he could get there. Is that relevant? I think she flew to Cofft to Sun. Yes, but I don't think there was Chubris involved in her attempts to get there. Surely, right? No, you may be right. Maybe I'm taking the wrong lesson from the fable of Echrist, but I just, I think it was a further fall because she got so high. Our wings got singed. At one point, she was on set with Tom Hanks and then she was on Washington. That's quite a mess for your expectation. Absolutely. You're singing a talking head song, the direct tellers' good face. I'm making it. I've made it. Well, in reality, a few years later, she was approached to sleep in a church yard. This was a drug addict. There's definitely a caution here and there somewhere. But I think it's also probably worth pause it in that FQ had re-enacted with her band and we lost time at school. Where would she be? Legacy Tourism's issues for normal. Oh, God knows we hear. So much about Legacy Tourism and fucking reunions and all my goodness. What are we thinking like that coveted legend slot in Glastonbury Festival, for example? It could be a thing. It wouldn't even be the legend slot. I think this is one of the things that would be the novelty slot, unfortunately. The Rikashley. Yeah. So appears from that era and well before, if they'll travel in the globe, they'll still headlining shows. They're still making up bells of similar kitchen, retro festivals. Rikashley being the example. Rikashley is pretty said Fred. Yeah. And in fact, said Fred. Wrong said Fred. Far right said Fred. Far right said Fred. Many of these artists do well from it. There's no reason to think that Q Lazarus might not have it end up alongside M people or Hela Smolls, I guess. Yeah. Well, Heather, did you go? It sounds disparaging. So I really dislike M people. It's not maybe a great analogy in that sense, but like Heather Smolls ended up basically singing along with back-end tracks because she was effectively M people by that point and people just wanted to hear those songs and it is interesting to think would things have taken off for Q so late in the day or would she have ended up in that sort of company, which is I am sure that a lot of those people are very thankful for that and that they can still make good money doing that and they probably simply enjoy getting out there and having a bit of a laugh and you know, good for them. Fucking good for them. I don't want to hear it most of the time, but good for them. But there's a look to it in terms of the art. You know, I mean, I think I always remember going to see floccacy goals at the art school and it's basically just to see Iran live. And it was fucking chronic. It was honestly like, you know, the Mitchell Brothers from East Enders, this singing was so bad. It was just to be fair, they nailed that song and I was like, oh shit, they totally got that one right and I left kind of being like, well, I guess that's all I really wanted anyway. I have a horrible feeling that might have been the case. Yeah, I mean, legacy acts. I actually like the fact that they still get to it, right? Even if it's too much of it. No man, it's clogging up the whole system. You've been doing it as well, though. The prices, the it's so backwards looking like we're running out of material to turn into legacy at this point. I mean, like in doing so and going down that line, she would have transitioned, I think, in many minds from inigma to one hit wonder. She would have officially become that, I think. And I'll hit here for sure. Our family, her friends with much rather, she was here on stage or otherwise, you know, whether she's plan before or after end people are otherwise. We would rather the women was here, right? We in this situation have the privilege from an emotional distance of depersonalizing Q Lazarus the pop act. We can use on, you know, how that legacies somewhat protected now as a result of her passing away. She will never be back on those stages, going through those tunes for the thousandth time or going through that tune, let's be honest, for the thousandth time, you know, to crowds at state fairs and daytime festivals in Cumbria, that kind of thing. The merits of that fact though, I think are very subjective. I'm mind, I'm watching my privilege there because I didn't know the women and it's a very affecting story. It's a very touching story, seems like a lovely person. But the sanctity of that song will forever remain intact, I guess now, you know. It's the selfishness of me, the music fan that sees that as a small consolation, I suppose. And for all of its tumult, it is trapped in a haze that seems to match, I think, the somber, better sweet nature of the song that marked her highest point, goodbye horses. Yeah, I think you're probably right, you know. So as we said, I'll add on the documentary. Good bye horses, the many lives of Q Lazarus. Is available on a venue for you to go? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But chase is very, very good and certainly worth a watch and worth on a number of 45 minutes. Let's just lean into it. It's very, very good. There are, I consume a lot of music documentaries. It's right up there. It's really good. If you enjoyed this episode, then please like, share, subscribe, comment, all that nice thing. If you've all that nice thing, if you have, this is the hip hop, and you have pop in me. If you've got some thoughts as well on Q Lazarus and all like you said, then please do drop them in the comments or get as in social media. You'll have to hear about that stuff. Yeah, one of the interesting things about Q Lazarus is actually going through the comments on her videos and various threads and stuff because people who are at the shows, people who have ticket stubs put really interesting things in there. When you do get access to Zenigmatic as this or as low profile as some of the other acts we've covered, sometimes you pick up some of the most interesting details in those comment sections and yes, you have to maintain a bit of skitsism, but a lot of them can be fascinating. If you know anything that we've missed, let us know. 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Yes, it's Facebook thing, but you can also talk to us directly on Patreon if you really want to chat. But there's also an enhanced here, isn't there Chris? Is there? Yeah. Tell me about that. No, you tell me about that. That sounds very special. It's very special. It's very special. Ironman, is this with the record label? It is the record club. The record club. Yeah. We buy albums from independent bands and labels and we can accurate them based on stuff that we come across. I'm a promoter, so I get to say in all kinds of things, a tour, Mark your stuff, Mark's a consumer of music who digs around. I tour sometimes as well. It does something. Basically, we've built up this catalog of stuff from all these different independent artists from across the globe. And band camp, albeit it's not perfect, but you certainly the revenue shares for these artists are so much higher than simply streaming them. So even if you do end up streaming them, just invest them away bit by joining that record club you invest in us, you invest in those bands and labels and invest yourself because once a month you get a wee surprise sent to you and it's kind of based on your tastes to some extent as well. Don't worry, we're not just throwing random things in your direction. But yeah, it does really help everybody and it's just a nice way to be part of the podcast culture. So patreon.com/unsongpod or the link is in the description below if you're on YouTube. Thank you very much for listening, Slash, watching. We'll be back soon with something just as interesting. Goodbye, goodbye horses. [Music]