John Tutoro delivers what critics are calling a career best performance in the only living
pickpocket in New York, the acclaimed new thriller that the Daily Beast calls a perfect crime film.
Variety says Tutoro delivers a towering work, starring as Harry Lehman, New York's last great
pickpocket, and analog man struggling to survive in a digital age. Harry survives on cash,
favors, and street smarts, but the days of wallets and wristwatches are gone. Now his
nightly take is credit cards, cell phones, and one fateful night. Cryptocurrency and a handgun.
Now Harry is on the run, hunted by Ruthless criminals and forced to navigate a city that's left
in behind. To survive, he'll be forced to rely on every trick he's learned over a lifetime
on the streets. Don't miss the film that the LA Times calls instantly classic, in film book
cheers as a quintessential New York masterpiece. John Tutoro, Giancarlo Esposito, Tatiana Maslani,
Will Price, and Steve Hashimi star in the only living pickpocket in New York. Now playing in
New York and Los Angeles opens nationwide October 30th. I say, because if I do die, I'm a hunt,
I'm gonna ask the lawyer, let me hunt you. We so often hear about those that don't make it out
of danger alive, but what about those that do? My body got warm and it just said, "Get up,
you're not done, get up." I'm Caitlin Van Mall, back with a brand new season of I survived.
The more I begged him, the happier and the more excited he got. Join me for new episodes of I
survived every Monday and subscribe now wherever you listen to podcasts. I'm Brett, and I'm
Dallas, and we are The Prosecutors. Today on The Prosecutors, we look at all the people who
died around the Murdoch family.
Hello everybody and welcome to this episode of The Prosecutors. I'm Brett, and I'm joined as always
by my still pregnant co-host, Alisa.
I'm really gonna miss when we finish the Murdoch case, and you can't just pronounce my name
in a million different ways. But those of you who are confused, my name is still Alice, and
I am still pregnant because we are on a marathon recording session right now. It is a beautiful
day outside, but we are recording when the sun is up, because who knows how many more hours
I have before I have to go deliver this baby. But we care about you. You know what? I care
more about you guys than delivering my baby. So we're getting through this case because it's
crazy. And there's so much against us still.
And so you guys, you listen last episode and you're like, "Man, I bet by the next episode,
Alice will have had that baby." The problem is recording the next episode like five minutes
after we recorded the last episode, so there's been no progress on the baby front.
We had to go like, we got like extra waters and sustenance. Brett went to get water. I
wanted to get chocolates, you know. So we took a five minute break. We are back at it.
I also got some more bourbons. I reloaded on Alba. I'm not going to be judgmental, but it's
like the sun is high in the sky right now, man. It's five o'clock somewhere, right?
Not here.
Anyways, and it is a Saturday, those of you who are wondering whether we're recording while
we should be working. No, this is the weekend. Doing this all for y'all. We just stuck
our kids in their rooms, hoping they'd nap, which I think none of our kids would have
said, yeah, whatever. Yeah. Okay. So we've done the timeline. The very
long timeline. I guess a couple of episodes to get through it, but very important and hopefully
very interesting to you. And I gotta tell you guys, y'all know us. We don't believe in
conspiracies. We throw cold water on conspiracies all the time. We have come to a case that is
so crazy and conspiratorial that I'm not sure we're going to be able to do that. And
today's the day when we're going to look at the fact that people just seem to die around
the Murdoz with surprising regularity. And whether or not they're involved or not is a question
that a lot of people have wondered about. It's obviously a little out of the scope of
what's going on in this trial. But I don't think you can talk about this case without
talking about some of these incidents. I will say, we're only going to scratch the surface
of this. There are podcasts that have spent 100 episodes on this case. The Murdoz murders,
the Murdoz family murders. There's also a podcast by the state newspaper. If you are fascinated
by this case, you can spend the next couple months listening to stuff about this and really
in depth stuff. So we're going to scratch the surface. We're going to give you the details
of some of this. But if you want a deep dive, deep dives are available. And I don't know
Alice. I mean, when I started looking at this case, I knew it was interesting, but I had
no idea the depth of this and how many twists and turns this case would take. And just
the years of shadiness around Alec Murdoz and his family in particular.
And I think that's exactly right, right? It's not just that the facts surrounding this,
you know, whatever you have, husband and a father accused of murdering his own child and
wife, it's going to be salacious, but it's those twists and turns in the just years of kind
of built up, covered up stuff. You know, that's the best way I can put it is that there's been
so much going on. And it seemed like it was all bubbling and it was a volcano. And right
around June is when everything started bubbling over and all this stuff that had just been
simmering below the surface are coming up. And that's why it's so interesting because it
had been successfully covered up, I think for quite some time. So let's dive into what those
things are. Let's dive into it. And it is so true. We've talked about sort of corruption
and long family legacies. And I'm sorry, nothing ever stays buried. At some point, all of your
misdeeds are going to come to light. Even if you're able to stave them off for a little while,
eventually it's going to come out. And that's what you're seeing here. And it's possible that the
murders were just the latest example of that. If you believe the prosecution's theory, then the
murders were in part to cover up misdeeds. But this time it didn't work. And not only did we see
more information about those misdeeds, but about things we're going to talk about today.
Let's start with the boat crash. It's the most relevant to the case itself. And in some
ways, maybe the least interesting of the strange things that have happened around the Murdoff
family. Now we've given you some background on that when we were talking about the timeline.
You have these friends. They're out for a late night boating excursion. They get really drunk.
There's a tragic accident and a young girl Mallory Beach is killed. And look, I'm sure on some level,
Alec Murdoch and his father cared about the fact that this young lady was dead, but it was not their
primary concern. Their primary concern was protecting their son and grandson. And if I can be cynical,
the family name, I think they went into action to try and ensure that whatever the consequences
of this were going to be, they were going to fall on Paul as little as possible. You know,
this is a situation where you have a man who had been the former solicitor, his son who was
working at the local solicitors office who immediately are showing up at this hospital where all
these kids have been taken. And they are in, they're not there for their son. They're there in
questioning mode. People talk about what is, what is corruption? What is influence? Corruption is
not house of cards. That's fantasy. Real corruption is being able to do things like your son was just
taken to the hospital with a point two eight blood alcohol level where a boat that he was probably
driving crash and a young girl who was in the boat is most likely dead. And yet you as the father
and grandfather of that person are able to interact with the other witnesses to the crime before
even the police are able to. That is corruption. And that is corruption and should disturb you. And
obviously, I think does disturb a lot of people, but they're, they're going into action. They are
questioning these survivors and they're not only questioning them, they are making suggestions about
what really happened. And let me just tell you, one reason this is so disturbing is people
are really susceptible to being manipulated. And they're really susceptible to having their
memories manipulated and to not being sure about things, particularly when they've been drinking,
particularly when they've just been involved in a really traumatic event. And I don't know if you
all have ever been in a situation where you were asked to remember something that was really
important. And somebody put a lot of pressure on you to do it because I have been in the situation.
And to the extent that I was almost convinced that something that had not happened had happened
because I just, I just could not, I could not remember exactly how it went down. And it turned out
later that it had not happened the way that I was worried it had happened because that would
have been bad for me. And it had happened a different way. And there was like other evidence
of how it went down. And I was like, wow, that's good because I was almost convinced that it went
down the other way and that's exactly what you're seeing.
here. You're seeing a situation where you have all these kids who are going to be asked
very soon to tell the police what happened who was driving. That's the most important thing.
And what are Alec and his father doing? They are telling these kids that it wasn't Paul
that was driving the boat, not at the time of the wreck. That in fact, it was Connor Cook
who was another one of the people on that boat. And the story they tell essentially goes
that Paul was in an argument with his girlfriend at the time and that Connor had sort of taken
over driving the boat and that what was going to what happened is there's some argument
between Connor and Paul and maybe Connor is not paying attention and he accidentally wrecks
about and that's how it went down. That's going to be the story that the defense is going
to tell. So essentially what they say on the HBO documentary, if you've watched it,
you'll see one of the lawyers for Alec Murdoch today, the same one who wrote that Washington
Post article telling this story that that's how it went down that Connor was actually driving
and he was going to win that case. He was going to get Paul off because Paul wasn't driving
the boat and they were going to prove that at trial. And what does he point to to support
that position? He points to the police reports that were taken by the police right after
the wreck. I say right after the wreck. In fact, it was right after they had talked to Alec
and his father. Now the kids are talking to the police and they are confused about his
driving. They're saying things like, "I'm not sure anymore." And maybe it was Connor.
Even Connor couldn't say who was driving the boat. And that was the evidence that they
were going to point to in Paul's trial. So really, it was kind of working out exactly
they wanted it to. They had confused the only witnesses to this and as we've told you
a thousand times, those statements you make to the police right after an event are so important
because if you change them later on that you're going to be undermined by those. And
the question is going to be, why is it the thing you told close to the accident is now
different than the thing you're saying on the stand. So to the extent they wanted to
do that, they accomplished their mission.
Indeed. And this is really why you try to get to your witnesses as soon as possible. So
it's not surprise that these kids who have gone through a lot are just totally confused
as to what happens.
Yeah. And the lawyer's Jim Griffin, by the way, keep your aunt in his name. He was the
lawyer for both Paul and now for Alec, which is interesting. It's not actually a conflict
of interest, but it's always interesting when you represent somebody they get murdered
and they're representing their case murder. But in any event, he's obviously been attached
to the family for a long time and is committed to them and was committed to the fact Paul
was innocent. And we'll tell you that. But I think it looks a lot like these kids were
manipulated and it wasn't just that. We also know that a family member of the Murdoz had
ended up carrying the boat off for law enforcement law enforcement didn't have a trailer to put
the boat on. So where are they going to get a trailer? Well, one of the Murdoz is like,
we'll do it. We'll tow it for you. That's the way to preserve the evidence. I'm sure that
we got towed off by them and Paul's clothing, his cell phone and other items somehow just
disappear. Evidence that would have been very valuable and figure out exactly how this
goes down or just lost. Wouldn't you know it? Coincidences just mount in cases involving
the Murdoz. So it's question about how this trial is going to go. But it doesn't in there.
There are two aspects to this case. There's the criminal aspect and there's the civil aspect.
Now I think the Murdox felt pretty secure that they could handle the criminal aspect, that
they were going to be able to manipulate this case one way or the other and secure Paul's
freedom. Duffy Stone has recused, which was what he should have done. So they're not going
to necessarily be able to manipulate the prosecution because it is going to be an out of towner state
AG's office that's going to be prosecuting this case. So that's going to be a little bit
more difficult. But it is going to take place in their home county, probably in front of
a judge who's going to be friendly to them. And they've compromised so much of the evidence
that proving beyond a reasonable doubt that Paul was driving the boat is going to be difficult.
Maybe it's impossible. Maybe with the questionable statements of these kids,
it is going to be impossible to prove that. But there's something they can't control.
And that's the civil aspect of this case. If you have a good lawyer handling this case,
it may not even matter his driving because you're going to sue Paul, of course.
But Paul's not the one with the money. Allick is. And Alex, the one who owns the boat.
And whoever was driving that boat at the time would have been underage, would have been drinking,
and it would have been a circumstance that Alex would have allowed to happen.
And that's typically the case too, right? Because his experience in his poll is in the solicitor's
office. But on the civil side, when money is like involved, it's kind of hard to pull the strings
there because you don't have, it's not just based on witness testimony. It's based on like
financial records. Exactly. And unlike the criminal case, where you're going to have to prove this
beyond a reasonable doubt. In order to convict Paul, you're going to have to prove that Paul,
beyond a reasonable doubt, was the one who was driving that boat when it crashed. That's what you're
going to have to prove. And if you can't prove that, Paul's going to win. And you may have already
undermined that. Civil's going to be different. Yes, of course, Paul's going to be sued. He's going
to be named in the lawsuit. But he's not the one with the money. And he's not the one who owned the
boat. That's Alex. And really, if Alex was aware that Paul was taking the boat out and getting
drunk and getting drunk with his friends and letting his friends on the boat and letting his friends
drive the boat. And Alex allowed that situation to continue. It's not going to matter at the end of
the day, whether Paul was driving the boat or somebody else was. Paul is still going to be partially
responsible. And therefore, Alex is going to be responsible. And that is a way to get at him and
to get his money. And if you have a smart lawyer, smart plaintiffs attorney, someone like we saw
on the stand with Mark Tinsley, who testified, who in fact ended up representing the beaches,
you can see how you'd be terrified of that guy. That guy knew exactly what he was doing and exactly
how to get the most out of whoever he's going after. There are people who did not like him.
But I'll tell you, when you would like him, when he's your lawyer, you know, he might be somebody who
rub people the wrong way at times. But when he's your lawyer, you're going to love that. And that's
who he was. But he was not the person who represented the beaches in the immediate aftermath of
this crime. Remember, all these people had known each other for a very long time. And so,
Alex is going to get his own friend involved. Cory Fleming, and Cory Fleming is going to represent
Connor Cook. He is one of Alex's best friends. He is also the godfather to one of his children.
Now, Connor's parents didn't know that. They had been friends with Murdoch's. They trusted
the Murdoch's. And they went along with this at first. And they had this person represent their
son, who in fact did not have his interest at heart. Instead, his whole purpose was going to be
to undermine this case, to cast blame on Connor and not Paul. At the same time, the Murdoch's
are working on the beach family, trying to convince them that this is not something that should
continue to any kind of lawsuit. But something they can deal with outside, of course, the very last
thing they want are either the cooks or the beaches asking too many questions about how this went
down and asking too many questions about the Murdoch's finances. Fortunately, the beaches didn't
listen. They went out and got a competent lawyer. And Connor's family realized what was happening.
And they went and got a competent lawyer. But this will not be the last time that Corey Fleming
will appear in this saga. That's just so dirty, Brett. Like getting your own friends involved.
I mean, everyone is bound by the model rules of conduct, all lawyers, I mean. And, you know,
ethically, you are supposed to be looking out for the best interest of your client. And to suggest
kind of your friends to be representing people who will have interest that conflict with your own
interest is a huge no no in the legal field. I mean, this is just, this is not how lawyers typically
roll, just so you guys know, this is not the way tip lawyers are supposed to roll. And if you want
to know who Corey Fleming is, if you've been watching the trial and you saw the third interview with
the sled investigators with Alec Murdoch, he's the guy who's there with Alec Murdoch. He's being very
aggressive with the sled investigators, asking them things like is he a suspect? We want information.
How could you think he's guilty of this? He's being very aggressive in defending Alec because
he's his good buddy. And the notion that that person could have represented Conor Cook
when the interest are so directly opposed between the Murdoch's and Cook is just mind blowing.
And as we said, there's so much true corruption in this case, the real sort of corruption that it
should be a learning experience for everybody because this is how it really works. You know, like I
said, things like, you know, house of cards or whatever. I mean, that's just that's television.
This is the real world. And it's just as pernicious. And in fact, even more so sometimes because
it's harder to identify. You don't have sort of the black and white evil that you have. You have
this sort of behind the scenes thing, working to ensure that justice isn't done. But it's not going
to work here, which doesn't mean that things go exactly the way they should. These are serious charges.
There is a girl who is dead. And Paul has been accused of that. Despite that, he's going to be
released on a $50,000 bond. He walks out of jail on the day he's arraigned a free man. In fact,
he's not even handcuffed. And when they take his mug shot, they do it in the hall rather than
and taking him down.
local jail to do it. People were upset by this because they thought, "Here we go. This is the
Murdoch's doing their thing, ensuring that no punishment is going to come to this person because
he's a part of their family and they protect their own." And it wasn't the first time that the
people of the area had seen things like this that seemed fishy and seemed like the non Murdoch's,
the little people who didn't matter, bad things are going to happen to them. But the last thing we're
going to have is any kind of responsibility to the Murdoch's for their role in the bad things that
happen. Yeah, and it certainly seems that way, right? I mean, you can imagine how it's not meant to be
big-sea corruption. It's just that you do know the policeman who's supposed to go fingerprint you
and take you down to the cell where you're treated like, well, behold, a criminal where they take
precautions to make sure you don't run away. And that means handcuffs. That means, you know,
bolted doors in order to take your mug shot. And instead, it's like an Instagram photo that he gets
to take out in the hallway. And the reason that matters is, I don't think that Paul necessarily,
you could see his smirk in his mug shot. There's not the kind of level of severity taking your photo
in the hallway as it is to go down into the dungeons because it is the dungeons. Like, it's usually
where there are no windows to prevent, you know, any potential escape to be fingerprinted and to
actually have a proper mug shot. And they may do that just because, oh, I've known your daddy for
20 years, you know, I trust you. Let's just take the picture here. It's not meant to be like big-sea
corruption, but you can see how not everyone gets those sort of curses when they are in contact with
the criminal justice system. And that quickly can turn into much bigger issues of whether Paul will
ever be held accountable for these charges. And let me say this. I don't think Paul was a monster.
You know, people present Paul as a monster sometimes. If you've seen the Hulu documentary,
I think it's Hulu. It's on one of the channels. It's not the HBO documentary. It's the other one.
They have this random woman from Hampton County who is one of the people who they talk to throughout
the documentary. It's unclear who she is or what connection she has to anybody, but she is perfectly
happy talking trash about the Murdoch's. And particularly Paul. I mean, she basically describes
Paul as just this psychopathic monster. That's how she presents him. During the trial, I think you've
really seen the humanization of Paul through his text messages which we've read through the
testimony of his friends who all seem like fine people. You see that Paul was not. He wasn't a
monster, but I think Paul definitely had a feeling of invincibility. And he had a feeling that he could
do whatever he wanted because he was a Murdoch. And he would be able to get away with it. And it led
to things happening like the boat case where he can get his junk as he wants. It's his boat. He
can do whatever he wants. And there's not going to be any consequences. And that I think the worst
things that Paul did and the bad things in his life came from that. And it wasn't just his family
telling him that he's seeing it reinforced by the actions of people around him who should
have treated him like anybody else, but didn't because of who he was. And that's just, I mean,
that is a big deal, right? For any of us that would be a big deal to have been driving a boat
and causing a crash. Or I guess that's what's up for debate. But be part of a boat crash where one of
your closest friends dies. I mean, this is incredibly traumatic. I don't know how Paul was dealing
with it, but I don't think that you that doesn't affect you in some way. And here's the thing. I know,
you know, there's a lot of weird twists and turns in the story, but this is not the only deaths
surrounding the Murdoch's. And that's why I think people have been fascinated with this case.
Let's turn our attention to Stephen Smith, 357 AM on July 8, 2015. So we're taking you back in time,
a man driving down the road in the middle of the night, see someone laying in the roadway
who's not moving. And as you'd expect, he calls 911. And the man in the middle of the road
is Stephen Smith. He's only 19 years old. And because of where he is, the middle of the road,
the police believe that it was a hit and run. But the responding highway patrol notice that there's
no glass, no fragments of a wreck, no indication really that there was a, in fact, a hit and run.
But Stephen Smith is lying there, motionless, lifeless, with blood all around him. And the
sheriff in the corner determined that his body must have been in a wreck because he's dead. I mean,
what you know, it's kind of, it's kind of all comes razor. This man is found in the middle of the
road and he's dead. And there's blood around him. Even if there's no glass or, you know, bits of
car pieces, that is the most likely reason that he is now dead and must have been a car wreck.
Now, this isn't usual as the sheriff's department. It's not ordinarily the agency that would make
that call. And according to Stephen's twin sister, there's something more here. She doesn't
believe that he was just walking in the middle of the road. Why would he be walking in the middle of the
road and that this was a hit and run? Rather, his sister has a different theory. And at the time
that she's talking about this theory, I think a lot more people think it sounds conspiratorial than
it being rooted in fact. Because what she says is that people who live in this town, they have no
special connections. They're not the well to do in the town. There's no reason that that Stephen's
death should peak anyone's interest other than the families. But Randy Murdoch, Alex Brothers,
so Randy Murdoch IV actually calls Stephen's parents and does something a little strange. He
asks for Stephen's electronics and the passwords to them. And he offers to represent the smits for
free. And an investigator from the Murdoch law firm actually shows up at the scene of where Stephen's
body is found. And the troopers are on the scene. They're kind of processing the scene and they
prevent this investigator from really coming onto the scene. But Stephen's twin sister notes that
it seems strange that the Murdoch didn't have seemingly any connection to the smits for Stephen.
knew that Stephen died even before half of his own family knew he had died. There's a couple
things that are interesting about this. I mean, number one, notice sort of the competing law
enforcement here. The local guys, the sheriffs and the sheriff's office, they're all like, oh yeah,
this is hit run. Who knows who did it? Might as well just close up this scene and be done with it.
The highway patrol though, the state agency, and they're the ones who normally investigate these
kind of crimes. And they're getting muscled out by the locals. Why is that important? You can
talk about the Murdoch, and you talk about corruption and power and everything else. And they were
powerful in the state. I'm not saying they weren't, but they were far more powerful in the local
area. At the end of the day, the folks in the Capitol, they might care about you a little bit. If you're
the most powerful person in the middle of nowhere part of the state, but I don't care about you that
much. And they certainly don't care about you as much as the people who rely on you. So if you're
somehow involved in this, you don't want them coming in. You want to be, you want it to be
invested about the locals. And if those of you who've been watching the trial, you know about the
corner now, you know about just qualified that guy is to do anything. He was the defenses first
witness. And he could not have come off as more of a bumbling, no, nothing than he did. He is
the only the latest indictment of the coroner's position in the United States. The corner is an
elected position. You don't even have to be a doctor to do it. I'm not sure why we still have it.
And yeah, I mean, it's only the most important thing anyone at a crime scene can do being the
person who examines the body. And yet we pick just random Joe off the street. So his word means
nothing in this case. And as Alice said, there's a lot of weird things going on here. The only
connection seemingly between the Murdoch's and Stephen Smith is I think Randy or Alec one was the
coach of his tea ball team. I don't even remember who the coach of my tea ball team was. And I'm
pretty sure if I get hit by a car, that guy wouldn't show up. So it's weird that he's doing this.
Now my understanding is Randy is basically to not this. And so there's sort of a fight between
dismiss and Randy about whether or not this happened and when it happened. But there are highway
patrol people who confirmed this last part that Alice was talking about. The one of their
investigators while they're on the scene shows up from the Murdoch firm. Maybe this is you could
imagine this is just ambulance chasing at its finest. You have a dead kid in the middle of the road.
There might be some money here to be had. And they realize that. And so they want to jump on this.
Because if they can figure out that it was like a long haul trucker that hit him, they can make a
lot of money. Maybe, maybe, maybe that's the best you can say about this. But it certainly seems
strange and it only gets stranger now. As we talked about, Stephen's body is found in the middle
of the road. That's a little weird. Ordinarily people don't walk down the middle of the road. Ordinarily
they walk down one side or the other. And if they get hit, they don't end up in the middle of the road.
They get thrown to one side or another. But he's in the middle of the road. His car was three
miles away parked on the side of the road. It was not running. The gas cap was off. And in fact,
it appeared to not have any gasoline in it. So it appeared that it had run out of gas. And that's
what it happened. People are going to question that later, but that's sort of the initial belief. And by the way,
I have unfortunately tested the fates of, you know, the driving guides and definitely
run out of gas on the side of the road before.
I know very clearly when I run out of gas,
your indicator is on, your car kind of sputters
without a gas carton or gas in my trunk or anything.
I don't take the gas cap off.
There's nothing I can do to look into the gas tank
to verify that the gas is in fact empty.
The one that's happened to me,
I have walked to a gas station before
and I had to buy a gas container where I'm going,
but I think it's, this is almost like two on the nose.
It's like Hansel and Gradle trying to leave those breadcrumbs.
In case you were wondering what's happening,
look at the gas cap, it's off.
I wonder if it was something with the gas cap.
Everyone reacts differently,
but I just note that usually you have other indicators,
and the least good indicator of whether you're out of gas
is looking into that little hole where the nozzle goes,
which would involve removing your gas cap.
- See, Alice, this is why I love you so much.
People ask sometimes whether we ever disagree on anything.
The answer's no, because we share one brain.
We're just the same month.
- Exactly. - That is exactly what you do.
- I mean, yeah, I mean, that was just like,
I was literally going to say, it's just two on the nose.
It's too pat, it's like, it's the perfect setup.
- It's almost like someone has spray painted arrows
on the car to say, look over here.
Don't look at these other things happening.
Just look at this gas cap because that must be
what's happening next, don't you think, storyteller?
- If there had been a sign saying, I ran out of gas,
it couldn't have been more sort of perfectly set up
to be like, obviously, ran out of gas.
- But with like a phrase before it,
I was not murdered, comma, I ran out of gas.
(laughing)
- If you find my body, I was obviously hit by a car
while looking for gas.
And look, I mean, I, you know,
faking someone running out of gas is not the easiest thing
to do, but it's not impossible either.
If you're gonna cover up a murder,
you might be willing to do just that.
But that's the situation.
The gas cap's off, his car's out of gas,
it's sitting on the side of the road.
He obviously has blunt force trauma to his head.
I mean, that's what killed him.
But here's the weird thing.
The injuries were almost entirely to his head.
Other than some scrape wounds on his arms,
there's no other evidence that he was hit by a car.
Y'all may remember, we talked about Patrite Vassie.
And we went through the sort of all the injuries he had
and one exactly had happened to him.
We were talking about the Marmarie case.
And we talked about things like paint transfer.
We talked about the fact that there was sort of glass
embedded in his body.
We talked about the fact that he was knocked out of his shoes.
And this was a hit and run that he number one survived.
And number two was at a relatively low speed, apparently.
You don't see any of that here.
There's no glass in the body.
And you almost always have some sort of shattering of glass.
Particularly, if you're laying in the middle of the road
because if you're laying in the middle of the road,
that means you're probably walking in the middle of the road.
And if you were walking in the middle of the road,
what part of the car would you be hit by?
You would be hit by the left side of the car
where the headlights are.
So what you'd expect is when that hit happens,
there's shattering of glass.
There should be glass around you or on the body.
But you don't have any of that.
There's also no tire marks.
So whoever did this, they didn't break.
If he was hit and run, they hit and they kept going.
Which is a little weird because even when people
are surprised and hit someone and decide to keep going,
they usually slam on their brakes immediately after the hit.
So even if you don't see tire tread
running up to the injury,
you'll often see them running away from the injury.
Then the person hits the gas and hits off.
You don't see that here.
So if this was a hit and run, this person hit him
and didn't think anything of it and just kept going.
There's also no paint transfer.
So even if you think, well, maybe there was just no
nothing shattered.
It's really hard to get hit by anything
and not have some paint transfer.
But you don't have that here.
You also have a pool of blood,
which you don't normally have when someone gets hit
by a car because they don't get hit and then drop down
where they're hit.
They get hit and then they're thrown some distance
and the blood trails after them.
They may end up in a pool of blood
but there's gonna be a lot of blood leading up to that.
You don't have any of that.
There's no evidence that the body tumbled down the road
after it hit.
It seems like it just dropped.
It was like if it was dropped from the sky.
There's right here into this spot
where the blood pooled around it
and there's no evidence of how it got there at all.
Steven Shoes, which were basically slip on sneakers
are still on his feet.
People who have shoes tied to their feet
often will be found without shoes.
Go back to the Petite Vassy case.
You literally get knocked out of your shoes
when you get hit and run.
They are still on his feet.
His phone is still in his pocket.
Just slipped loosely into his pocket.
No damage to it at all.
All the evidence for this.
From the injuries on the body,
there's no injuries to his legs.
No injuries to his lower body.
Only his head.
How do you get hit by a vehicle
and only have injuries to your head?
You don't almost have to imagine that he got hit
by like a really tall truck and it was going by him
in like just the rear view window
like smacked him in the head or something.
But even then there's no shattered glass
which you would expect in that circumstance.
So there's no injuries that you would expect.
He's not tumbled down the road.
There's no blood trail.
There's no shattered glass.
There's no paint transfer.
There's no tire treads.
Leading up to the body or leading away from the body.
All the evidence from the scene,
despite what the corner and the sheriff might tell you,
points to a body drop.
Points to someone who killed this man
and then dropped him in the middle of the road,
hoping that whoever came upon him would assume
it was a hit and run.
Guys, we are back with one of our favorite games,
June's Journey.
June's Journey is one of those games
that will take hold of you
and you will enjoy it every second you have.
There are a few things that's captivating
as unraveling a family mystery.
Those of you who listen to True Crop,
you know that solving a mystery
can be one of the most enjoyable things you do.
And with as many twists and turns as June's Journey brings you,
you will enjoy it.
You play as June Parker
and investigate beautifully detailed scenes
set in the decadent 20s to solve your sister's murder.
With a mystery that runs that deep,
you'll keep coming back to explore new scenes
knowing the next clue is always in reach.
And there are more than 8,000 scenes full of hidden clues
and there's always something new to discover.
Meet an intriguing character in chapter two
and decide if he's friend or foe.
Reach chapter five to hunt down your first
international clues and a lush locale.
If you like this show, you will love June's Journey.
So pick up where you left off
to uncover new secrets or start your investigation today
and download June's Journey.
Available in Android and iOS mobile devices
as well as on PC through Facebook games.
The prosecutors is brought to you
by progressive insurance.
Let's face it, sometimes multi-tasking can be overwhelming.
Like when your favorite podcast is playing,
the person next to you is talking
and your car fan is blasting.
All while you're trying to find the perfect parking spot.
But then again, sometimes multi-tasking is easy.
Like quoting with progressive insurance,
they do the hard work of comparing rates
that you can find a great rate that works for you,
even if it's not with them.
Give their nifty comparison tool a try
and you might just find getting the rate
and coverage you deserve is easy.
All you need to do is visit progressive's website
to get a quote with all the coverage as you want.
Like comprehensive and collision coverage
or personal injury protection.
Then you'll see progressives direct rate
and their tool will provide options from other companies
all lined up and ready to compare.
So it's simple to choose the rate and coverage as you like.
Press play and comparing auto rates.
[email protected] to join the over 29 million drivers
to trust progressive.
Progressive casual insurance company and affiliates
comparison rates not available in all states or situations.
Price is very based on how you buy.
Guys, we've all had that problem
where something's wrong in your health
and you just don't know who to go to
and your text in your group chat and you're Googling it.
But the one thing you don't have is a doctor
and you're extremely unlikely to find quality medical advice
on your group chat or from Google.
That's where ZockDock comes in.
There are thousands of medical professionals on ZockDock
there to help you.
They listen like a friend and give you the expert care you need.
ZockDock is the only free app that lets you find
and book doctors who are patient reviewed, take your insurance
or available when you need them and treat
almost every condition under the sun.
No more doctor roulette or scouring the internet
for questionable reviews with ZockDock.
You have a trusted guide to connect you to your friend,
to connect you to your favorite doctor you haven't met yet.
Millions of people use ZockDock's free app
to find and book a doctor in their neighborhood
who is patient reviewed and fits their need and schedule,
just right.
Go to ZockDock.com/Prosacuters
and download the ZockDock app for free.
Then find and book a top rated doctor today.
Many are available within 24 hours.
That's ZockDock.com, zoc.com/Prosacuters.
Hey everybody, if you're looking for a go-to
for all your grocery and household essentials
with the convenience of getting it all quickly shipped
to your doorstep, thrive, market is for you.
You guys know I do like the keto
and sometimes it can be hard to find keto friendly foods
in the stores and that's one reason I love thrive, market.
I'm able to find all sorts of low-carb options
and save money on every single order.
In fact, you can average over 30%.
Each time you order and on top of the massive savings,
thrive, market has the deals page that changes daily,
gives me cash back on so many brands
and have a prize.
match, guarantee. Not only to drive market save me money, but they also save me
time. I love the filters on their website. Whether you're looking for gluten-free
snacks or non-toxic cleaning essentials or keto foods, you can curate your own
shopping experience with the click of a button. Join Thrive Market today and get
30% off your first order plus a free $60 gift. Go to ThriveMarket.com/prosecuters
ThriveMarket.com/prosecuters. We've said it before, but HelloFresh is one of our
favorite sponsors for a reason. With HelloFresh, you get farm fresh, pre-portioned
ingredients and seasonal recipes delivered right to your doorstep. There's a
reason it's America's number one milk kit and if you try it, you will know I've
talked about the firecracker meatballs before. I absolutely love them. My wife
and I make them all the time. It is not an exaggeration to say that the day the
HelloFresh box shows up on our doorstep is one of our favorite days of the
week and it's not just good food. You can save money too. We all know it. The
cost of groceries is going sky high and now is the perfect time to get started
with HelloFresh. HelloFresh is cheaper than grocery shopping and 25% less
expensive than takeout and because all those ingredients are pre-portioned and
because you have that handy-dandy recipe, you're not wasting food which is so
important these days and HelloFresh knows you're busy. That's why they take
care of the meal planning and prepping, freeing up extra time in your schedule.
If you're interested in trying HelloFresh, go to HelloFresh.com/TP60 and use
code TP60 for 60% off plus free shipping. That's HelloFresh.com/TP60 and code
TP60 for 60% off plus free shipping and find out for yourself. While HelloFresh is
America's number one meal kit. You know, when it comes to personal hygiene, who
has time to read that long list of ingredients in the back of the bottle? Some
ingredients I can't even pronounce. If you're like me and you care about what
goes on your body and maybe you've got some sensitive skin, nails the time to
try native personal care products just like I did. You know native for their
aluminum-free deodorant, native keeps their ingredients list bare naked. With
ingredients, you understand like coconut oil, shea butter, and baking soda. When
you use native, you will smell amazing all day long. Thanks to your long
lasting scents. Want to smell spicy and woodsy or clean and fresh? Native has a
sent option for everyone. I know I'm a big fan of the limited edition cabin
collection of warm cider and cinnamon, cashmere and rain, toasted marshmallow
and vanilla, and wildwood and cardamom. As I've said before, I have sensitive
skin. Not all deodorants will work for me, but native is perfect. And it's
time for you to make the switch from an antiperspirant to native. When you visit
their site, you can discover all their fresh scents and maybe even try out one of
their body washes while you're at it. Smell and fill fresh all day long with
native. Get 20% off your first order by going to native.do.com/prosecuters or
use promo code "prosecuters" at checkout. That's a native.do.com/prosecuters or
use code "prosecuters" at checkout for 20% off your first order. Everyone talks
about how challenging it is to raise kids, but what about protecting them? Outlet
covers kitchen cabinet locks, baby gates. Where do you even start? Well,
protecting your home and auto is a great place to start. Progressive offers
customized coverage options, so you can be sure to have the right coverage for
you and your loved ones. They're basically the outlet covers, kitchen
cabinet locks and baby gates of insurance. Don't wait. Get your quote today at
progressive.com. Progressive casualty insurance company affiliates and other
insurers not available in all states. Just you describing his injuries and the state of his body is so
stark. You're right. When you're walking the big go stand next to your car. The
bulk of your body that would come in contact with a car, the part that sticks out
in a car, the hood of the car, is going to be the middle part of your body.
Really doesn't matter how tall you are, right? From as short as I am and to as
tall as you are, it's going to be somewhere in the middle of our body. It would be
quite difficult to target. Hidley hit someone in the head who's walking in the
middle of the road and not throw your body anywhere, even to the amount where it
would just scratch your legs. Not a scratch on the legs, not from being dragged and
that's another thing you typically see like drag marks because your your body
gets caught on something and he was clearly hit with such blunt force that it
killed him. So it wasn't a light tap and it wasn't like the door of the car was
opened even though the door the car was open would still hit you in the middle of
the body, not your head and not disturb what's in your pockets. That is just
mind-boggling. Let's go back to the timeline we talked about last time.
Supposedly, remember after Paul had been shot and he was laying dead on the
ground, Alex said he ran up to his son's body, tried to turn him around, and
that small movement of turning around his body supposedly made the phone in
Paul's pocket fall out, which is why Alex said he had to touch the phone and
then he put it down because he thought it was a bad idea. Yet Steven Smith's body
can be hit with such force that it kills him and nothing is disturbed about the
phone in his pocket. It doesn't get you know pushed out of his pocket, it doesn't
get shattered, it doesn't get a crack in it, nothing. And the shoe thing is
really really important. Shoes come off the easiest on your body because if you
think about the way your foot is shaped, really it just takes like a small little
lever on the heel part to be able to kick off a shoe, right? That's why you can
kick off your shoes with the heel of with the toe of your foot as opposed to
bend down every time and take your shoe off because of the angle of your foot.
Every other part of your body involves some sort of limb or hole that you have
to maneuver your shirt or your pants or socks or underwear or bra, whatever
through, but not your shoes. Your shoes are kind of the only say on because of the
angle of your foot. And that's why they're so easily disturbed and that's why
they are typically found first when you're searching for a body. So if you're
running away or you're attacked by an animal by a person, you're in a car accident,
your shoes typically are separated from your body and we often see that I
think we saw this in the Delphi case, you find shoes before you find the body
because they typically get separated from the body. Again, here Steven gets hit
with such force that he's killed yet shoes tied perfectly on his feet. Is it
possible? Sure, but it kind of defies all other crime scenes that we see of
this nature. Look, if you had a bunch of other evidence and I'm happy to be
corrected by someone who has more information and everything we just said is
wrong. But if he'd had injuries to his torso and there was glass and a blood
trail and his shoes were still on his feet, okay, I guess somehow the shoes
managed to stay on his feet. But the fact that there is the only reason you would
think this person was involved in a hit and run is because his body was found
in a road. That's it. That is the only piece of evidence that leads you to think
this is a hit and run. Every other piece of evidence indicates this was not a
hit and run. So it's one of those things where is it possible to be hit and
not and there be no glass. Yes, is it possible to be hit and there's no blood
trail? Yes, is it possible to be hit and there's no other injuries? Yes, is it
possible to be hit and your shoes don't floff? Yes. But when you combine all those
things together, it's just becomes astronomically high. The probability this
wasn't a hit and run. This was not in my mind. This was not hit and run. He was
murdered and his body was dumped there. The Murdoch's might not have had anything to do
with it. Just because a bad thing happens in Hampton County doesn't mean the
Murdoch's had anything to do with it. I thought more about that in a second. But he
was murdered. And I just don't think there's any question. And there was no
question in the minds of the highway patrol officers who looked into this
either that this was unnatural, whatever happened to him. And I think the more
you learn about it, the more you realize something weird was going on here. Two
weeks before his death, according to his sister, he started to act strange. He
wasn't the same sort of happy-go-lucky guy that he always was. Something was
weighing on him and something was worrying him. The day before he was hit, his
car wouldn't start. I guess his sister was a little bit more handy with cars
than he was because she looked in his car, looked under the hood and
noticed that the battery cables were loose and weren't attached. And obviously,
if your battery is not attached to your car, you can't start your car. So she
sort of hooked it back up and then it could go. The next day, the car is out of
gas. Now, we talked about this just a few minutes ago about how weird it is. You
just leave the gas cap off as if you're just saying, "Hey, my car is out of gas.
I need gas." But here's the thing that someone didn't figure on. Stephen
didn't take his wallet with him. His wallet was still in his car with his
money and his credit cards. So if Stephen was going to buy gas, he was missing a
very important thing, the ability to buy it, which it seems like a pretty
strange thing. Now, you might just say, "Well, maybe he just forgot it." Bad look
for him when he shows up at the gas station and doesn't have any money. The
problem is he'd have to actually be walking towards the gas station in order
for that to happen. But where his body was was not towards one of the very few
gas stations in the area. It certainly wasn't in the direction of the closest
one. So nothing about the circumstances surrounding this. In addition to the
physical evidence on the scene, nothing about the circumstance
circumstances surrounding him leaving to buy this gas
points to this being a legitimate story that he ran out of gas and he's walking
on the street and he gets hit by a car. And this is, you know, we talk about
circumstantial evidence, people poo poo that. If you're feeling convinced by this,
but you're not normally convinced by circumstantial evidence, this is all
circumstantial evidence. This is all all these little things are adding
together, little things that maybe alone wouldn't tell you anything. But when
you add them all together, you're starting to get a story here. And the story is
Steven Smith one involved in hit run. So the highway patrol, you know, they keep
looking, but they had almost no information. They kept hearing rumors that
somehow the Murdoch's were involved. And that's all they were as they were
rumors. They didn't come with a lot of proof. It was, well, this person told me
that they heard this is what happened. The troopers, they kept trying to nail
this down. But it seemed like they would talk to people and they would think,
okay, this is going to be a witness. We're going to learn something. And then
they would just sort of disappear from town, possibly because they were paid
to do so. That's the conspiracy theory people jump to. And in this case, it
might be true. This happens more than you would think where you're an officer
and you get a witness and the witness tells you a great story and you try and
confirm it and all of a sudden they've just vanished into thin air. They won't
talk to you. They tell everybody they know not to talk to you. Sometimes that
just happens because people who initially tell you a story or even tell you
the truth, they don't want to be involved. You know, this is, this is too big. It's too
heavy. I don't want to be involved. So that does happen. So it's not necessarily
that they were paid off. It could just be they realized what they'd gotten
themselves into. And they tried not to be involved in this. Now Paul has been
the person we talked about the most. He was the one who was involved in the
boating accident. He's the one that people seem to knock the most. But in this
case, it's Buster's name that keeps coming up. The story on the street that
people told the police, which I don't buy, but it's what they told them is that
there were two or three men in a vehicle and that Buster was one of them. They
see Stephen walking. He's walking down the road. He's going to get some gas. They
turn around and they follow him. They pass him and someone threw something at
him that hit him in the head. Exactly what happened is unclear. And frankly, I
think that's a dumb story that somebody made up just to account for the physical
evidence on the scene. And they wanted to stick Buster in it or whatever. The
other story was that Stephen was beating with a bat or a two by four and then
thrown out of a truck onto the scene. That seems more consistent with the
evidence and seems consistent with everything you see in the autopsy. This is a
lot of trauma to the head, which obviously happens in these hit and runs
because you get thrown and you land on your head. When you hit by the car, you
roll over the car and you hit your head. It's just that you also tend to see a
lot of other injuries around you. The hitting of the head is actually the
second or third or fourth thing that happens to you. Yet banged up everywhere
else and then your head hits the ground and that's what kills you. But all we
see with him is the injuries to the head and that seems much more
consistent with the beating than with the hit and run. So the big question is
why? You know, why Stephen? It's not apparent his connection with the
Murdoz with Buster. Why would Buster who is hardly heard anything about right
now be involved in this brutal beating of just some some kids, some 19-year-old?
So let's talk about Buster because Buster was Paul's older brother and
Buster was, you know, like probably in a lot of families the oldest son. He was
supposed to follow any father's footsteps in the law and it actually surprised
people that Buster would be part of the chatter around town involved with
his crime because even though people seem to be, you know, down on Paul that he
was this arrogant, you know, privileged young boy, that's not the same
reputation that Buster seemed to have around town. He seemed to be much more
quiet and he didn't flaunt, you know, his privilege maybe as much as his
younger brother and the fact that it was, you know, a Twitter about a Twitter
about town that Buster may have been involved was actually surprising. But then
what happened next? Kind of surprised some people and maybe as confirmation
bias they started to think that Buster did have something to do with it because
Buster was supposed to go to law school and he was, you know, on the straight
narrow to follow and be part of this law firm maybe solicitor one day or a
volunteer solicitor in the town. But instead of doing that and following on his
career path, Buster just sort of disappeared after Steven's body was found. He
stopped getting on Facebook and it was unclear where he went or where he was but
he wasn't in town. He was supposed to go to law school, but he only went for one
year and I think he actually got kicked out of law school or he never went back
and he never got a law degree. What does it have to do with Steven? So Steven, we
don't know much about him yet, right? We know that he's a 19-year-old who's been
found dead. He's a twin sister, so he's family and he's close with his family.
One other interesting thing about Steven and it's only interesting because of
a potential, you know, view into what may have happened to him is that he was gay.
Investigators heard that Steven was actually planning on going deep-sea fishing
with a quote prominent person and he was really excited about this and it was
supposed to happen in the next, you know, couple weeks. But before he could go on
this deep-sea fishing trip, he was murdered or he was found dead, whatever you
believe. And his friends heard that he was actually in a relationship with a man
in Hampton County who was very influential. Obviously, based on kind of all of
these rumors, people believed that the person Steven was in a relationship with
was Buster. Now there's been no indication that Buster is gay. You know, we've
seen Buster in trial. He has a girlfriend who's been with him every day in
trial supporting his father. But the mention of an influential man in Hampton
County who maybe if was found out to be gay would cause people to gossip or it
would look bad on the family was Buster. Now Buster's never been charged or
officially connected to Steven's death. I don't think he's even been interviewed
about this incident. So all of this is really based on a lot of conjecture and
rumor around town. And when you hear the description of this scandal, it feels
like it was concocted. It feels like, you know, people were just trying to
shoehorn this into this story. This is a mysterious death in the area. There's
no real solid information. There's a lot of rumors. People are saying this and
people are saying that and probably didn't have anything to do with anything.
The problem is during the investigation of Paul and Maggie's death, all of the
sudden state is reopening the investigation into Steven's death. And they say
they're doing it because of information they learned during the investigation.
What in the world is that? And remember, you put this together with the fact
that and we don't know if it's true because Randy Murdoch denies it, but we have
Steven's sister saying that the Murdoch's who are, you know, the family about
town, contact them. Ask Steven is found dead. Offering to represent them. Why? You
know, they they have a very bustling practice, private practice where people pay a
lot of money to be represented by them. You know, they it doesn't seem like
their ambulance chasers looking for a handout to to represent people pro bono or
for a low fee or out of the goodness of their heart. They're plenty busy. I
mean, both of us are lawyers. Like, you're very busy. You're not looking
necessarily for free representation because there's already so much going on
in your life. They're not they're not busy people. And look, I just I don't know.
I feel there might have been some involvement in the family and Steven's death.
I think it's a little weird to somehow try and tie a buster back into it. I just
don't know. I mean, how about the buster thing is is really really really
speculative. It's a lot of smoke. It's a lot of smoke. Yeah. In any other
situation, if we were just doing an episode on Steven Smith, I would probably
not even mention buster's name. You know, the fact that it's been the subject
of multiple documentaries and whatnot. I don't think we're saying anything
new here. But if this were just an episode about Steven Smith, this is a lot of
smoke and it sounds very conspiratorial, except for the fact that the cops
specifically said they're reopening this case because of what they found with
respect to the investigation into Maggie and Paul's murders. That's weird. And
again, they didn't say nothing about about buster. It might have been something
to do with Alec. There's a jail call between Alec and buster where Alec says
something like people are speculated about Steven Smith's death and that
obviously didn't have anything to do with you. And buster's like, yeah, didn't
have anything to do with me. So I think it's quite possible that Alec did have
something to do with Steven Smith's death, but it actually didn't have anything
to do with buster. I think there's a there's a strong possibility that whoever
buster is and whatever buster is, he is really just a victim in all this. I
know there's going to be people who are going to get upset me even saying that.
But look, his brother's been murdered. His mother's been murdered. They
probably were killed by his father. I'm not sure what else is going on with his
life. But to me, unless there's some sort of concrete evidence tying buster to
this, I think we should probably leave him out of it.
That may we should leave the Murdoch's out of it, though.
The Murdoch's are somehow involved in the sense that it seems they've been
inserting themselves, you know, into this investigation for whatever reason. It
could be lots of different things, but I agree. The buster
He seems a little I don't see enough there to implicate him here. I'm more look you could
more easily convince me that Alec was gay or bi and was interrelationship with Steven and Steven
was blackmailing him. Then you could the buster was. I mean that that to me I just that just popped
into my head but it seems a lot more likely than anything else. We know what kind of person Alec is.
So I don't know there was there's a lot of weird stuff going on with this family and there's a lot
of questions. We talked about the money. Where did all this money go? In some point the defense
is going to claim that Alec had a $50,000 a week drug habit. Unless those oxy cotton were dipped
in gold. There's no way he could spend that much money on oxy. Is this not possible? Oxy is
expensive. It's not $50,000 a week. So there was some money going somewhere that went places that
are not entirely clear and I don't know if we'll ever know the full answer to this but the states
investigating and they're investigating based on evidence they learned in this murder. So hopefully
one day we'll find out what exactly happened to Steven. Well you've talked about money and the
question is you know we know that they're a powerful family and they have a good civil practice
but there is a lot of money flowing through this family with their properties and they're
the way they live. And so obviously at this point if you've been following the trial you know that
money has a lot to do with the allegations here. So how did they just make all their money?
No that's not the allegation. He's been charged with almost 100 financial crimes and it didn't
just start in the last year or two. Yes. The story we're about to tell you is just disgusting.
It disgusts me in such a basic level. Whatever the actual facts of Gloria Satisfield's death are
what Alec Murdoch did afterwards is just just horrible on so many levels. So Gloria Satisfield
was the Murdoch housekeeper. She was more than that. She was she'd been with the family forever.
She basically raised those boys as close as she could be with them. Well she fell down the
brick steps of the home, the Mozel home. The same place where a few years later Paul and Maggie
would be murdered. She had been as I said the housekeeper and the nanny for the kids for 20 years.
She was a long term member of this family and that's what she was. She was a member of the family.
According to the 911 call that was made by Maggie shortly after she fell. She had tripped over
one of the dogs and she had fallen and hit her head and a couple weeks later she would actually
end up passing away from her injuries. She lingered in the hospital for about three weeks before
she died but she never regained consciousness. Initially Alec does something that seems like a very
kind gesture. He actually approaches her sons and says I want to make sure you're taking care of.
We loved Gloria. I have insurance on my home.
Sue me. Sue me and my insurance will pay for this and you'll be taking care of the way you
should have been and won't replace your mom but at least she'll get some money. And he sends
them to who else? Cory Fleming. Best friend. Godfather of sons. Person who who represents other people
whenever they seem to be involved with anything with Alec. Well he is going to represent them. He
is the same person who represented Connor cook and Fleming. That's a great job. He gets a settlement
from that insurance company for $4.3 million and he should have sent that money to Forge Consulting
which is the company we've talked about before which takes this kind of money and ensures that
the people who are going to receive it receive it in a way that will take care of them for a very
long period of time but he doesn't send it to Forge Consulting. He sends it to Forge and as we know
Forge is the fake business. Alec opened under the real settlement company's name so he could
receive this money and no one would know better. Now Forge he had opened several bank accounts and
he'd run money through this but here's the thing about these kind of financial schemes and
Alec has some experience with this. Alec has seen very similar bank frauds to this but basically
he had a friend at the local bank. Palmetto State bank and that man's name was Russell Lafitte
and Russell Lafitte was the president of the bank and he would run this money into these accounts
and he would move it around and he would use it to cover debts that Alec had and basically would
benefit as a result of this. Obviously he and Alec had known each other their whole lives
Russell Lafitte had grown up across the street from him as a matter of fact and this was a complex
fraud and all these people were benefiting from this and so they got this $4.3 million but they
never even told the kids they got this settlement. They had no idea. They were waiting for the settlement
to come through and they thought it was going to be much less than this a few hundred thousand
dollars and they kept getting pushed off and they kept getting pushed off. Well Lafitte you would
eventually be charged and convicted in federal court with bank fraud. So he's sort of gotten his
when it comes to his role in this fraud. Cory Fleming has also been indicted for his role in his
facing a lot of years in prison for his involvement in the various frauds that Alec Murdoch was running.
The Satterfields kids they didn't even know about the settlement until the explosion of focus on
the Murdoch. They learned about it through the news basically. I think Mandy Matney who does the
Murdoch murders. She might have been the first person to report on this. I'm not sure but in any
event they finally learned about it. One of the sons actually testified in the criminal trial
about this. This is part of that 404B evidence that came in but just regardless of if you think
that's the story of how she died. Total accident, whatever. Just a terrible thing to do to the family
of somebody who supposedly was a friend of yours but that is the links to which Alec Murdoch would go
to get money. The money he needed to to basically fill the holes that he had created over these 10
years of financial frauds. And that's such a good point Brett. Let's not get lost on the first part.
Which is the financial fraud which we know happened. And we know it because he admitted to it and
people have already been indicted and convicted in their role in this financial fraud. We'll talk
about whether the Murdoch had anything to do with Satterfield's death. But the fact, let's say
he did it. The fact that they would steal $4.3 million from her family when she is a family member
to them, she raised their kids, tucked like the Murdoch boys into bed, fed them, probably taught them
how to walk and grow up and be young men. I mean, this is a member of your family and you would do
that to them. I mean, that is just, it kind of just belies everything I know about humanity
to be able to do that to someone who is essentially a member of your own family. And so I don't want
you to get hung up on whether, you know, the Murdoch had anything to do with her death because
we'll go to in just a moment. But this other, the financial part of it is just sickening. It really
shows the character of Alec. And it was knowing, right? Because he can't sue himself or file a claim
for insurance on the kid's behalf. He put the, the seat in their mind to sue him. He knew he was
going to do this all along. There was no way he could collect on the insurance that there wasn't
a third party, Satterfield kids, to sue him in order to get this payment. And not even to like
split it with them, you know, which is still fraud, but like just straight up steal all of it
is really disgusting as, as like a moral character sort of thing. But with all that, let's,
let's talk about this because when you steal from someone, obviously it opens up a whole can of
worms. And unsurprisingly, people think that Satterfield didn't really fall that maybe something
more pernicious was at play here. They pointed the fact that no one mentioned the dogs that she
supposedly tripped on on the 9-1-1 call. And, you know, she is very familiar with the Moselle
property. She's been there, you know, for 20 years. She's been around these dogs. She knows what
these dogs are like. Of course, accidents can happen, but it's not like she is unfamiliar with the
dogs that live on this property. And you would think if something tragic like you trip on a dog,
it would be mentioned in the call because it's a tripping versus a being pushed or, you know,
slipping. They all have different effects on the body. You think you'd mention it on a 9-1-1 call,
but of course, no mention of a dog. And if Maggie had mentioned the dogs, some may argue that
doesn't really tell you anything because she would have been telling you extraneous information to
the 9-1-1 operator that just wasn't necessary. Now, it's usually a bad idea to kill someone by
seriously wounding them and then sending them off in an ambulance, hoping that they die rather
than recovering and telling the cops what you did. But as you see in this case, even though Satterfield
never regained consciousness, she was alive for another three weeks. So, you know, I say all this
say, you know, of course, people are conspiracy minded and thinking the Marta had to have something
to do with it. But I think what we have surrounding the 9-1-1 call and the fact that she does stay
alive for three weeks after kind of cuts against any sort of planned murder here for insurance fraud.
But what is certainly the case is that like we said, Alec stole her money and others,
and he didn't resign from his law firm. He was fired after misappropriating funds.
Alec stole from the families of lots of people, not just his own money.
and how longtime housekeeper I'm gonna call her his family member because that's
basically as close as you can get to a family member who's not actually a family.
I think by looking at his financial misdeeds we see the type of person he is.
He just has no qualms about who he goes after because he's still money from the
family of a quadriplegic, a woman who died in an ambulance wreck,
a trooper who was injured on the job, and honestly that's just the start of
the type of people that he stole from. Because of his position in the law firm,
people come to him when they're at their lowest, when they need help and they
need someone to trust. And he took advantage of that. The amount that
Alex stole is conservatively estimated at $10 million.
And he faces at least 90 charges and honestly it's probably going to increase.
There's probably going to be more charges just for financial fraud alone.
I think Alex is right. I don't think people should assume just because
Alex Murdock is a really bad terrible person who stole from a lot of people
that means that Maggie and Paul would have been complicit in murdering this woman.
I think this was an accident. I think she did die by an accident. I don't think she was murdered.
I don't think she was pushed. It'd be a really weird way to kill somebody.
And as Alex said, you'd have to really hope she didn't regain consciousness
in those three eggs and say Maggie pushed me or whatever.
I don't think she was murdered, but I think this is the kind of person
Alex is. He saw this happen and the very first thing he thought was how to take advantage of it
for his own benefit. That's what he did. And that's the story I think when it comes to this case.
It's just another window into the soul of this man. And those of you who've watched this trial
and the thing keeping you from feeling like he did this is how could someone kill their
their wife and child. I think what you see in Alex Murdock is somebody who
will do whatever they think benefits them. That's his calculus from how he makes decisions.
And this is evidence of that. She wasn't murdered. This wasn't accident, but it quickly turned
into just yet another one of his frauds. It wasn't just strangers that he was willing to do this too.
He did this to a member of the family. And I think Alex is right. And I think shows you that a lot of people have said, well, he cared about Buster. That's why he
arranged for himself to be shot so that he could provide for Buster. I think we're looking at
it completely from the wrong lens. He displays classic traits of a narcissist. Everything is
through his eyes of number one, not his sons, not his wife, not his longtime nanny family member.
Even if this was a complete accident, which I think very likely it was that she accidentally fell
and tragically passed away, he's not mourning her. Like his narcissistic tendency is not allowing him
to be sad or actually have his heart go out to her children who are who have lost their mother
and might be in financial straits. All he can think about is how can number one benefit from
this. And that's the way his mind works. And that begins to shed light on how someone like him
could pull the trigger on his own flesh and blood. Well, I guess there's a lot of people who
dug a lot deeper into this. If you want to drive all the way down the rabbit hole, check out some
of those other podcasts and you can learn even more about these cases. These these things inform
everything else that's happening, but they're not the main story. Next week we're going to get into
that main story. We're really going to dig into the trial and the evidence that we've learned the
trial and what it tells us about what happened on June 7th to Maggie and Paul. I'm sure you guys
have thought she just an email prosecutor's pod at gmail.com at prosecutor's pod for all your
social media can't wait to hear from you guys. I know y'all been loving this trial. We've heard a
lot of you on the on the gallery and on Patreon who've wanted to talk about this and we love talking
about it with you and we hope that more of you will join us in this discussion. Well, Alice,
is there anything else you want to say before we sign off? No, I'm glad we got through kind of all
these salacious kind of side bars in a way. I think they're important, but I don't think they're
important because it's necessarily that the murderers are some big, you know, cartel that have
dealt death all over the low country. I don't think it's that. I think what has been very enlightening
about these other side bars is that they do touch the murders in some way. There's a lot of smoke,
but I think it really gives you an insight into the way this family views itself within the community
and how they have been able to stay out of the fray despite having a lot of smoke surrounding their
family and probably had some involvement in less than, you know, above board things. I don't think
it's necessarily that they are this family that has like murdered a bunch of people around them,
but I think all there are there's enough facts in there to really shed light on the type of people
and the type of family and the type of person that Alec is that will come into play when you are
faced with the question of whether he is the one who killed his wife and son. Alice is always
nailing it and we're going to talk more about that next time, but let's see if Alice has a baby
between now and then we're not going to record the next episode five minutes after this. So,
so there's an actual possibility that after this episode Alice could have a baby. We're just going
to see it's baby watch all the time. Certainly by the time you hear this, if Alice hadn't had that baby
by the time you hear this, we got problems. We got problems, but we're going to see we'll keep you
informed. So, you know, check us check on Twitter to see whether the baby was born or not, but we'll be
back next week one way or the other with more on the Murdoch case and get involved in that trial,
but until then I'm Brett and I'm Alice and we are the prosecutors.
There is no cold water prosecuting on this case because this case is just as crazy as everyone says it is.
It really is. I mean, there's no, that's what I was saying, you know, when we talk to Bob,
there's no conspiracy theory that you couldn't convince me of in this case. I know because the whole
thing seems, the facts are so crazy in this case that it is, it sounds like a conspiracy theory
already in the things that are already factual. The only reason I don't think it's the,
the, the cartels goes to cartels, not dumb enough to do it. Now, like Murdoch could be involved in the cartels.
[Music]
Yeah, well, I just want to get far enough that if you had the baby tomorrow,
you have a couple weeks to recover so you can finish Murdoch.
I appreciate that. You're so, you're so just, you know, nice, letting you know.
Yeah, you get, you get a couple days. I mean, I just need to get, like I said,
I just need to get one of those portable mics and just bring it to the hospital.
[Music]
All month long on Pluto TV, stream the biggest Tyler Perry movies free.
Watch your favorites like Midea's Witness Protection and Midea's Big Happy Family.
Join Tyler Perry as he goes on a couple's retreat with Sharon Leal and why did I get married?
Or address Elba and Gabrielle Union in the Tyler Perry directed film Daddy's Little Girls.
Plus, Pluto TV has hundreds of channels with thousands more movies and TV shows,
available on live and on demand. Download the free Pluto TV app on all your favorite
devices and start streaming now. Pluto TV, drop in, watch free.
PodcastTranscript AI