The MSG Miracle! OG’s Tip, the Spurs' Collapse, and a Finals MVP Debate!

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Victor Wembenyama, where were you in the second half? Well, three or 14, he was somewhere. How did the Knicks do this? Galen Brunson came alive. OGN and OB just on the heater of a lifetime. How did the Knicks figure out the spurs, defense to the spurs? Have any hope going back to San Antonio? Can they recover from one of the all-time gut punch losses in the history of sports? Basically? Yeah. In the history of sports, I'll say it. We talk about all that. We talk about the Knicks and how this playoff run is basically completely anomalous in the history of the NBA. I don't even know how to contextualize this team. Finals MVP. So we'll premature, but we talk about it anyway. Just both of us are hungover on vibes and no sleep from a magical night in Madison Square Garden. A night, the spurs are going to regret forever. But I expect the spurs to come out and make the Knicks earn it in San Antonio. And if they get back to MSG, oh my god, this game six is going to be tense. All of that coming up on the Zach Lo Show with Ian Begley. Welcome to the Zach Lo Show. Oh my god. Ian Begley is here from SNY, and we just saw the damnedest thing we might ever see in our NBA lives. The New York Knicks StarCrossed, cursed, un-cursed, one win away from their first title in 53 years. After the craziest comeback in the history of the NBA playoffs, the spurs blow a 29 point lead in the second half, OGN and OB becomes a god in New York City. With a block on the air in Fox, the Knicks are down one in the waning seconds. All the air in Fox has to do is hold the ball and instead he tries to quick shoot a layup for reasons nobody will ever understand the second all-time brain fart turnover that has happened to the spurs in this series. The series where the total score is Knicks plus eight after four games. The other one was the Wembee turnover in game two. Who knows what the air in Fox was thinking? Bill Simmons even texted me. Do you think he forgot what the score was and thought it was tied? Anything's possible. And then out of the time out, inbound to Brunson, Wembee has switched on him. They're not guarding OG who's the inbounder. And when Wembee got on to jail in Brunson, I thought, okay, like I can live if I'm the spurs. I know Wembee's big, but he's not really go various more mobile. And they send a double anyway. The best defensive player in the planet is on a guy who's an all-time great offensive player that he's a foot taller than basically even more a foot and a half. They send the double OG reads it rises up for the game-winning tip, absolutely iconic. The New York Knicks Ian Begley who have had their fair share of iconic shots in their history, but the most iconic shots in New York Knicks history are shots that have happened to them, are things that have happened at their expense in that building. And now they have a moment that is all their own that will go down if they ride this out and finish it. As I think the greatest most iconic offensive play shot whatever in the history of the Knicks. And then this person inbound the ball and I'll tell you Ian Begley, I was standing and watching, I didn't even realize Kat tipped the in-bounce pass and he tipped it. The clock ran out. Just absolute bedlam. What are you going to remember from this game for the rest of your life? Whether it's a play, it's a scene, it's a vibe like we were there. What a privilege to be there. It's our fucking job to be at that game. Are you kidding me? What are you always going to remember? You know, so much on the court is going to stand out, but just for me, I don't know, this is a little maybe strange to the common viewer, but I'm at the garden for every game. And always, always, always there are fans after the game who want to take pictures with the court behind them, who want to kind of mill around and soak it in. And the Usher's jobs are to get everybody out of it. So you know, five, ten minutes after the game, they're getting everybody out. Hey, you got to go. It's time to leave. No more. So they're breaking up whatever kind of party there is in the stands after the game. There was not that last night's act as you know, because ten minutes, twenty minutes, twenty five minutes, a half hour after that game, the court was filled with fans. The stands were filled with fans. The garden was playing, don't stop believing. They were playing some Frank Sinatra, everybody singing along. It's a big party and the security guards were not telling anyone to leave and it was just kind of emblematic of how special that moment was and how much people are going to kind of grasp on to that moment and talk about it for years to come. It's just one of those things that struck me because especially at Madison Square Garden, security guards have a job to do. And it's a specific job to do, tough job to do, but I think even they were caught up in the moment and just let everybody hang out and yeah, just a special, special night. It's exactly what my answer would be. MSG turned into a karaoke bar for thirty minutes after the game, almost nobody left every song that played, everyone was singing along. And when they weren't singing, they weren't just chanting, oh gee, oh gee, oh gee. And as I finally left to go down to the press room, so I'm going down the escalators with all the fans, that OG chant is happening, all the fans are going up and down the escalators chanting that. Then they start singing like the soccer song that's usually ole, ole, ole, ole. But OG, OG, OG, OG, OG. And then on the walk back from the garden, somewhere around like twenty eighth and seventh, I don't know what I couldn't even tell what was in the middle of the road, but about 500 fans had come and deared that intersection and we're climbing on lampposts and climbing on things. It was just a party, good on the nicks for letting the karaoke party happen. An absolutely unforgettable scene. I don't think I've ever heard the garden louder than it was when OG took that ball in. And just, I mean, and think about how the days started, Ian. I lost count of how many press releases got into my inbox about whether there was going to be a watch party or not and whose fault it was. I lost count of how many clips I saw of James Dolan on WFA and saying various inflammatory things. And then cat commits two fouls in 65 seconds. I thought both of them were shaky calls. I didn't love either of them. We can litigate them if you want the NBA has to be breathing a giant sigh of relief that the officiating is not the number one story after that game. Right. I thought both were shaky calls. If you called it, quote, unquote, correctly 100 times out of 100, I think he probably ends up with one foul, not two, like one ends up being a no call. I hated the proximate foul where we can go back and relitigate something that may or may not have even affected the thing that we're challenging the foul on Wemba Nyama that becomes a foul on cat. Great challenge by the spurs. You have that. You have even at the end of the game. Darren Fox turn over and Darren Fox had a terrible second half. The spurs had a terrible second half. Wemba Nyama had a terrible second half three of 14 stopped rolling to the rim is much stop forcing the action as much. Darren Fox commits a turnover with the nicks down one and Josh Hart streaks out and everyone is on their feet. And here they're going to get over the hump and here they're going to take the lead. And Josh Hart, here's some footsteps gets caught between a layup and a dunk and somehow blows that layup. And that's going to be the defining play of Josh Hart's career for better or worse. And then Wemba Nyama comes down and gets fouled and misses two free throws. And then the game goes on from there just an absolutely chaotic finish. And I don't even know, like, I don't even know where to go. Where do you want to go at the end of the game? Well, let me just start with where you started because, you know, Jim Dolan. He was, you know, on a streak of such positive PR. And then, you know, you got divisive with the last, the two games at the garden. And I was just thinking as they're down 27 and then 29 and even 20 in the fourth quarter. Just the narratives around what what it was going to be around here. We go again James Dolan and the next they're oh into at home with everything that was going on It just I could see that coming a mile away and Obviously no one's talking about that now. They're talking about OGN and OB. They're talking about the next being one win away So that that stuck out to me from the beginning of the day and then you know, you talk about Josh Hart Man, I don't know if you were in there after the game Zach But he Usually kind of smiley joking around especially after a win and he was that he was he was light after the game But he talked about OGN and OB and he said I have to give a special shout out to OGN and OB because he you know saved Essentially his basketball life With that play with the play that he made and when he said that He was dead serious like the look on his face. It was almost like he was emotional because He knows the city. He knows the league. He knows how Things get digested and that would have been something that you couldn't live down It would have been a Charles Smith situation if the Knicks had lost that game and then gone on to lose the series That's it that's again You bring up you bring up Charles Smith, right and it's what I said before like the Knicks have big play-up points Willis Reed come out of the locker room makes a jump around one leg Uings put back against Indiana Starks is dunk even more recently Brunson shot to close out the pistons even chenzo's bang against the Sixers But so many of the Knicks iconic moments are things that have be fallen Them and there were like four different things that could have fit that category in this game Including heart missing that layup and then I don't even like eventually they take the lead Brunson hits a floater to put them up by one Castle gets fouled After Josh Hart misses a box out that's really missed the box out so much on yet another Fox miss as he was Concerned with Wemba Nyama more than Castle like he kind of he kind of sandwiched Wemba Nyama Who's obviously the biggest offense of rebounding for that but it left Castle naked Castle makes both three throws again And I was walking back to your point right before Josh went into the into the press area I was walking back toward that area and he was like in that little doorway up the stairs waiting to go in And he saw me and I know Josh a little bit and he made I kind of he's like hey, what's up And we I shook his hand and and we talked a little bit for for a minute And he was like shell shocked he he was not like celebrating. He looks like a little bit out of it So I've and then I was I saw the comments and I wasn't surprised that that he said that because he's he look He's at all time beloved Nick already just the way he plays is so fans gravitate to it But those are moments that can define your career and unfortunately Darren Fox suffered one that will define his careers Absolutely inexplicable, but please go on talk about Josh and the the aftermath of the game Yeah, just the he was it was an emotional moment. It seemed like for him and Because he knows he knows what would have stuck with him and and how that love that he feels Deservedly so from Nick fans and how he's held in such a high regard You know that would have been decimated fairly or not by that moment by the mislayup and the box out You want to throw that one in there the miss box out. It was just a really bad sequence And and yeah that just that just really stuck with me and then Zach You know the spurs they just kept shooting threes and I'm sitting next to Vince goodwill ESPN And we're scratching our heads we keep saying you don't need to shoot that shot running off fence And I just wonder I wonder what you think because women yama he gets the flagrant right and then he becomes one flagrant Away from a suspension of like what he almost could have had in the previous game That when they when they ruled that he didn't get an upgrade Which I guess he just can do anything and not get upgraded at for the fact like he didn't get fined Even for decapitating Nasrid and that became relevant because he could finally they call him for another proper flagrant when he Yeah, elbowed carl entity towns into jaw and immediately I was like wait a second That means you would be suspended For game five if he had been upgraded to a flagrant the previous game I think that math is right correct. Yes. Yeah, that's correct And also it meant that he was a flagrant away from getting suspended Even even not even not going back to game three with the retroactive call So did that change the way he played because it seemed like he was a little bit less aggressive Less rolling to the rim the spurs were going to him Did you sense that that changed anything for him? It seems to change something for the team to me So I saw that bill on his live pod last night called it the greatest slash worst choke in the history of the NBA playoffs And it was a strange choke job and it was and like look any that takes nothing away from the next Let's be clear like the nicks Jalen Brunson and OG and in OB by the way one of the stats of the series The nicks have 102 points in the fourth quarter in this series through four games And in OB and Brunson have 72 of those 102 points like they're just the whole entire offence in the fourth quarter And when you have a 29 point lead in the second half and the other team comes back and wins It's both it's the other team placed sensationally well Play smart basketball started to find some ways to poke again at the semi-zone whatever those spurs are doing with Wemba Niyama Um, and it's also the spurs just collapse and I took to your point about Wemba He started rolling to the rim less often and less aggressively for sure Not all the time there are some hard rolls in there But I don't think it's a coincidence that two of Fox's four turnovers all of which were horrendous in the second half All four of his turnovers were in the second half where passes where he expected Wemba Niyama to be somewhere On the role that he wasn't and he ended up just passing it To the nicks And that that combined with all the threes and I rewatched the second half last night and just noted Like seven or eight horrible quick threes that I thought the spurs took Quick like Dylan Harper you look Dylan Harper You don't need to be taking a step back three in isolation with 12 on the shot clock Julian Champeni you don't need to be pulling up for a contested three in transition With 19 on the shot clock and a 25 point lead not open contested just terrible shots The play where it became a red of the flag went from red to scarlet to me With like 455 left in the game Fox is dribbling the air out of the ball And when he comes to set a screen for him And I'm sit it's right below me where I am in the Hyundai chase whatever bridge up there And I see Darren Fox Tell Victor Wemba Niyama to go away. I don't want to pick from you. I want to pick from somebody else And at that moment, I'm like oh my god. He's waving away The 75 monster who's been unstoppable rolling to the rim for big chunks of the series What is he going to do? He calls up Champeni because Champeni has Brunson on him And that's Darren Fox me like I got this. I'm the vet. I got this wemba you go away And as he's doing that, I'm like I can't believe he has the audacity to wave Victor Wemba Niyama away OG gets through OG by the way on top of all this is guarding Fox for most of the fourth quarter gets through the screen and Fox takes a contested step back to just terrible, terrible process by the spurs throughout that entire time and I do wonder Quick turn around tons of minutes Fatigue factor mental fatigue physical fatigue all the banging around they're doing did that contribute to Wemba kind of fading out I think you finish what nine I think he was three of 14 from the floor in the fourth quarter nine of 25 for the game But you know what it reminded me of another nix game actually the first two nix Celtics games particularly game one last year When the Celtics just let a giant lead let the nix walk them down bit by bit by bit and kept taking threes And what I set up for that game was these teams who get big leads like this I know it's in your DNA to shoot a lot of threes not as much for the spurs as it is for the mizzula ball Celtics When you go the big lead like that The only way you can lose is by piling up zeros on your possessions Like the upside of getting a three versus a two or even a one from a free throw Is outweighed by the downside of beginning is zero just go to the rim get fouled three or four extra times And you have enough of a cushion to win this game Just terrible process by the spurs and the nix made him pay for it I was like you I was like watching these three Remember that one possession where Fox missed the three and then Wembee took two straight threes on offensive rebound And it's like what are we doing man come on yeah, and the crazy thing to Zach is The spurs were in the bonus. I don't I want it was more than four minutes left in the game Well, I don't know if it was five or six, but they were in the boat They had the nix Excuse me the nix committed five fouls. I think five or six minutes left to go in the game So if San Antonio goes to the basket or even if they drive aggressively Draw anything they're going to the line and I think Carl Anthony towns Maybe I'm wrong. I thought he had five at some point in the fourth and that's another you know Reason to go attack the rim and they just didn't and I don't know Like how much of that is on Mitch Johnson I don't know where you put the blame Darren Fox takes takes a lion share of it But I want to point out here because I know it hit you when it was happening The Jose Alvarado substitution nine minutes and changed to go on the fourth I mean the thinking On Mike Brown from Mike Brown on that and then the execution from Alvarado a guy who The lift they traded for him They liked them a lot But he was out of the rotation for stretches of late in the regular season and it looked like he was going to be on the outside looking into the playoff rotation and here he is fourth quarter in the middle of a historic comeback and playing a significant role in the comeback. I'm so glad he brought him up and I'm switching to my third coffee of the morning because it's that kind of morning. Alvarado was sensational off the bench for the second time in four games in the series, helped swing a game. And I think, you know, in the second half, like Robinson and McBride have been their two most important bench players for the season. And both of them have been more or less invisible in the series. And I thought Mitchell Robinson finally started to get into the series a little bit in the third quarter when Kat got another foul and he had to play more. He got a lob dunk. He missed a couple of lob dunks and it makes you wonder if he was shaken his hand at one point if that injury is hurting him. But the Brunson Robinson pick and roll also got Brunson with shooting all around. It got Brunson going a little bit. And so finally, you know, we went into the series talking about like worst case scenarios for the Knicks, Kat foul trouble, Robinson injury, holy shit. Does this become a hook port? He's so hand. Are we stealing minutes within an OB and center? All of that came to be. It was a disaster and then it stabilized. Yeah. And Robinson kind of played his way into the series a little bit and then McBride has not, but Jose Alvarado kind of became the doose McBride substitute. And why I thought he was so good in this game was the Spurs are doing this funky zone with Wemonyama where he's not really guarding anybody. Sometimes he's guarding Kat. Sometimes he's guarding nobody. Sometimes he's guarding an area. And it's requiring the Knicks to sort of puzzle out how do we want to bring him into the action? How do we want to attack him? How do we want to move off the ball as we're doing that? And that's where Alvarado's IQ both on and off the ball just really shine. He had, he made that crazy layup where he fakes fun and got to the rim. He relocated for a couple of threes, but he cut to the, the Knicks have been really good in an OB in particular at as the Spurs are figuring out their rotations and where Wemonyama is and what corner he's closest to. And the Knicks get into their action sending guys right down the slot as cutters right to the rim. And an OB has been the best at this, but Alvarado did it too to just make the Spurs have to account for another guy at the basket at the right moment to make Wemonyama be like, Oh, wait a second. Somebody's here. I can't go out there. And they've gotten a lot of corner threes out of action. By the way, one of the other stats in this series, the Knicks led to league this year 12.9% of their shot attempts were corner threes 17.5% of their shots in this series have been corner threes. And they're shooting 45% on corner threes. It's, it's, it's about, they built with this kind of intention. And we'll talk more about that, but you're dead right on Alvarado. And what a story, man. A New Yorker, a Knicks fan, a fan favorite, a pest. And like you said, is he going to be in the rotation? Is the other rotation? Is he breaking case of emergency? Well, he was in game one when Brunson went out with an injury briefly. And he's just up for it, man. It's a fantastic story. It is. And again, like, I don't want to say he was counted out, but he would put, I don't want to say played his way out of the rotation, because that's too harsh. But whatever it was, Mike Brown really went away from him in a major way in the regular season and staying ready and being present. And that's what these guys have talked about a lot during that 13 game winning streak. And there's generally, they always talk about, you know, it's zero zero, whatever the series is, it's zero zero. And it sounds like a cliche, right? But then you go to last night and they're down 27 at the half. And after the game, we're asking them about, you know, what do you talk about in the locker room and, and, you know, hat, what's the messaging? And Alvarado said his thing was, let's just play the right way. Let's play hard because, you know, whatever we do in the second half here, we're gonna lose. It could carry over into game five. Carl Anthony Townes is talking about they have the experience on these comebacks. You referenced the Boston games. He said in that half time locker room. And I didn't, I didn't hear him say that. That's interesting. Yeah. And Jalen Brunson said, you know, just hit singles, hit singles, hit singles. And you're, it's not going to happen all at once. But, you know, done this before. And look, all that stuff sounds hoki to us, guys who have heard these cliches and heard these stories from teams, you know, across the league. But it seems like the nicks truly have embraced that, have embraced the idea that they can come back because they've done it before. And they know that it's possession by possession chipping away, chipping away. And so it's just interesting to hear the messaging that in that half time locker room, considering everything that was at stake and considering how the game played out. I like Jalen Brunson's like, let's just hit singles, hit singles. They're going to whiff. Like, we were crying on the, we're lying on him to like whiff, whiff, whiff. We'll hit singles. OGN and OB was like, how about I just hit grand slam home runs? Forget, forget singles. I'll hit grand slam home runs. I love to crowd was phenomenal. Like they were, they were waiting. It was such a much better crowd than game three. They were weight down 29. They were, they were, they were deflated, but they were also just waited. They never booed. They never like, never got too quiet. And they were just waiting for, give us a reason to get back. Like they're chanting, let's go nicks down 27, trying to lift up the players. And they're just waiting to get back in the game. And by the time it got to 15 and it didn't get, it didn't take that long to get it done to 15 plenty of time left in the game. Crowd is already rabid by that time. And you got the sense like, this is a thousand percent in play. It became like, by the time it got to 19, 18, you're like, oh my god, there's like 18 minutes left in the game. This is completely in play. I've seen this team do crazy things before. I thought the crowd was great. And to your point about how the spurs was game five. This, this feels unrecoverable for San Antonio in the moment, right? And I, did you see Wemba Niyama's post game presser last night? I wasn't in there. No, you had to go to the next step. He, he said the right things about how we can go one of two ways here. We can fall apart or we can come together and get stronger out of this. Just looking at him in the room, he did not look like someone who had a ton of faith that they would take the way he wants them to take. He said he did, but he looked visibly shaken in that press conference as you, as you would expect. Yeah. Um, that's the moment. Zooming out, I set this after game three. The power of home court advantage is that if the spurs came here and got a split and they did, they have game five at home and it changed to win a home game. Just win a home game and force the next to come back here after this delirious win and suddenly face the pressure of we have to win this game or we're going to another road game in game seven like the spurs. Disaster to lose the first two at home, particularly game two the way they did. The power of home court in five and seven at home is the split keeps you alive. They are alive. The nicks have to be careful to and I expect the nicks to play well and not have any kind of letdown or any kind of casualness to them. But I do worry that the circumstances of this, this game, they're less alive than they would be if they did just had lost like a normal five point game. I mean, that is, that's beyond a gut punch and but I will say this like if you ask me how I think game five is going to go, I think the next will win. I picked the nicks and seven. I think that that loss is such a bad loss that I don't know how the spurs recover, but over and over both of these teams in different circumstances like the spurs responding from losses, the nicks with a giant layoff, right? The spurs responding from devastating losses. They come out and they play well and they play close games. I don't think this spurs team doesn't strike me as a we're going to let go of the rope and collapse kind of team even after a game like that. I do think the nicks will win game five, but I think it'll be a good game. I think both teams will play well. Yeah, I do think it'll be a good game and I think you know, Wembe Nyama, I mean, everyone was great on San Antonio in the first half, but he was really, really good just around the basket, the way he was finishing shots, the way he was moving, it just looked like it was going to be a special NBA moment for him early in his career. And so I would assume that he can pick up their game five. Nicks obviously have played well on the road. I don't think that that crowd is going to bother them, but San Antonio is not going to lay down. They're not. They're young guys who have a lot of pride and confidence in their ability. And for a while there, obviously, game four of the first half, it just looked like they were so loose, like young and loose in a way that maybe a veteran team wouldn't be realizing the magnitude of the moment and they were just firing it all cylinder. So I think you have every reason to believe that they maybe cannot get back to their operating at that level, but there's a middle ground between the second half and the first half that I'm sure they'll be able to find and they'll make things tough for the next in game five, but tech, you hit on the crowd and I just want to say that, yeah, that game three crowd, I think they were taken out of the game and they didn't really, they did not try to rally the next in that second half, but it was so different in game four because they were just, they wanted a reason to explode. They wanted a reason to cheer. And as you said, they believe, they believe in this team. They believe that it's possible down 29. They've really truly believed it. It wasn't just like, Hey, let's get it to 12 and have some fun. The crowd is like, who the fuck knows what this team exactly, exactly. And then you said it, but they were down like 24 and the place was alive. And so I think that's a, that is a sign of belief because, you know, I just, sometimes I look at Jalen Brunson's shooting numbers and then he get not necessarily out of the game. And if they're a little off and I think to myself, man, if Julius Randall had that line, he would be getting booed out of the gym. But this fan base has a thumbs down, thumbs down, baby. Yeah, thumbs down. That's that they've earned. And so there's a faith and a confidence in their, the company, it's competency of this group. And I think that's what the fan base kind of has latched onto here in a way that you didn't see even Carmelo Anthony. If he had some of the shooting lines that Brunson has had, he would have gotten booed vociferously. And, and Brunson, they just, he just earned the confidence of this fan base. To your point about the spurs, we'll see what their poise level is, their youth and all that. Castle didn't play a great game, 5,000, I played 26 minutes. I didn't think he was bad. I didn't shoot well from the field. But like, you put that guy at the line at a big situation. He puts them up by one again and making clutch free throws. Champagne, one of seven from three, Mr. couple open ones in the fourth corner. Like, that's going to happen. He's not that young anyway. Fassel quietly 18.6 of nine shooting, Dylan Harper just outstanding off the bench. And is, and it will get to this later, but is already creating some big picture questions for this team and for Deer and Fox, right, right off the bat with his, his place. So the young guys, you know, I, I, more or less did their job. I, I think just the next played great. Lemby is the other young guy who did not do his job in a second half and Fox at, at a total, um, meltdown. Let's take a break and we're going to talk about, uh, my friends and neighbors, co-star OGN and OB. The Zac Lowe show is brought to you by Fandall. It'll all come down to this. 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But more on that later for now, I'm here to assist you with the NBA playoffs. Someone who needs no assist is OG and an OB. What a what a playoffs for OG and an OB. He's averaging 21 points, six rebounds. Here's this playoff shooting splits. This is for the whole playoffs, not this series 21 points a game. 58% shooting, 51% on threes, 64% on twos in the finals. He is averaging 24 points a game on 58% shooting and 57% on threes. And despite averaging five and a half points less than Jalen Brunson, three and change assists less than Jalen Brunson. And Jalen Brunson having big moments in games one and two in San Antonio. I think the finals MVP right now would be OG and an OB with a bullet. And he represents so much about how this team is built. They targeted him specifically for and gave away our traded way RJ Barrett in a manual quickly. Two first round picks that they really liked and were proud of. And you know, look, like the trade that some people, some people you can find the takes and we all have wrong takes, including me saying that the wolves won the Carl Anthony Towns straight. We're going to erase that from the internet. It didn't happen. Nobody said that. You can find people who said, Amanda quickly was the best player in that trade. I've vociferously disagreed. And they targeted OG and an OB for his size in his three point shooting, starting there. And the size in particular really matters because, you know, the whole Becky Hammond thing, right? Look like Jalen Brunson, you can't win a title with a six foot nothing guy. As your best player, I think I told you this earlier this week, I went back and watched some of those clips on the day after she said that she was on NBA today, rehashing her doubling down. And who's on the show? Me. I forgot that I had been on the show. And I had this take where I was like, look, I don't think any of these things are absolute, right? I said, I think Chris Paul could have won a title as the best player. Isaiah Thomas did win a title as the best player. I think it's certainly if you had your pick of like super stars at the super star grocery store, you would pick a taller guy to be our best player, but you don't get to pick that. You got him in free agency in one of the all time grade free agency signings. Then you build the team around him. You don't get down to the Mitchell for whatever reason, right? The trade falls apart. He goes somewhere else. You worry about the small guard, small guard thing. What you do is surround him with size everywhere to protect him, to protect cat in the end. And those three gigantic wings, heart, who's not that gigantic, but plays like eight feet taller than he is, and it'll be, and Bridges, not in Bridges game, but he's been great find in the playoffs since the Hawks series. And an OB, they're just, it's a perfectly constructed two, three, four around a small point guard in every possible way. Bridges and OG A plus defenders and good shooters. OG, a great shooter now. Heart just does all the other stuff. And is the secondary playmaker that Bridges, frankly, has not been in this series. He had glimpses of it here and there in the playoffs, and particularly in the Philly series and the Cleveland series, not this series. But I mean, that OG and an OB trade was a, almost a challenge trade. We think he's just the perfect guy for this particular team. And we're willing to give up these two guys to get him. And it's just impossible to overstate how amazing he's been in the whole playoff. So I don't even, I don't even know what else to say. He literally can't play better than this. You can. And Zach, I don't know, we probably got into this at the time. But, you know, they reassigned him to that big deal. And it wasn't as simple as we traded for you. Obviously, you know, we're going to make you a big offer and you're going to come back. There was, you know, moments there in that free agency where it was touching go. The next felt like it was touching go. You know, the six years were right there. And the nicks had to be more aggressive with what they were offering. And they did that. And obviously, it's worked out perfectly for them. But it's just interesting how many things have to fall right into place for you to have this kind of success to be at this level. But then an OB has been fantastic. And certainly, if the nicks win the finals, unless anything way out of the ordinary happens, he will be the finals MVP. And he has earned it with his play and the shooting, I want to know, and I don't know if you know, Zach, you brought up the corner, three is the shooting percentage. I would love to know what he's shooting from the corners, because he's hit like late clock, three is from the corners. He's just been unbelievable. And then, you know, the defense is what you expect from him, night in and night out. And, you know, if he doesn't block that box shot, we're talking, we're speaking differently about the air in Fox, obviously, and the game goes much differently. So that block probably gets overlooked, but it's just it, it, it, it typifies his effort and his skill on the defensive and then it's something that's really propelled the Nick defense from a very bad place. They were in the middle of the year to very strong defense, Zach, I want to give you credit real quick, because you came on my show, the put back, which is on SNY. Everyone should watch the put back. It's outstanding. On SNY, like if the meds are playing bad, just queue up to put back and watch you and talk about the next. Well, especially when Zach is on, because Zach, you said to me, it was in March, the next for struggling. I was kind of stuck in the, the depths of Nick's Twitter, where everybody was saying, like this team's done, I'm done with the team, blow it up. I was right there with everybody, because I'm a Senate, but you came on the show and you said, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, relax. This is a good team. This is a talented team. This is the team that people should have faith in, and you have faith when no one else did, and here we are today. with them on the precipice of winning a title. Do you remember what you were seeing then that allowed you to see what could be here when a lot of people couldn't? - So I was guilty of, I had a weird relationship with this season's nicks. I've talked about it a lot. I picked on to make the finals and they would have times when they would find it and it is the blender, the vibe, the ball movement, the defense. And then times, particularly in January, when they went two and nine and 11 game stretch and the pistons waxed them twice and all that, where they just kind of lost it. And in that January stretch, that's when I said, I think the wolves won the town straight because his salary is so big and it doesn't look like it's happening. But what I said was the nicks could win this title and this could end up being an all-time stupid take by me. And it looks like that's what's going to happen. But despite that, and towns was so much of the focus on the criticism at that time, right? There was all this reporting like, are they actually going to trade towns? Like, is that back on the table? Despite that, I just kept coming back to, like, who am I picking in the East over this team? Who, as raggedy as they were in that stretch? And then they picked it up. Their defense started to trend. And what I talked about in March with you. And if you go back and watch my live show from Brooklyn, who are on that same time, that whole show was like a pep talk to nicks fans who were like so down in the dumps. I was like, who were you taking over this team? Like Boston? Boston's the only one that I would be scared of. They had rediscovered a little bit of that verb with the ball. Towns had gotten out of it. Their defense was trending. I think at that time they were like one of three teams with top seven offense, top seven defense. I'm like, I know it's been, the losses are loud, right? Some of the losses were really loud. But the trend lines were there. And that spurs game ironically in March when they destroyed the spurs at MSG. That was kind of a proof of concept game again to me. But hey, I don't want to talk about like fine. It's been a weird season for the nicks. But here they are. And an OB, I don't know what he's shooting on corner threes. I do know that he leads the entire NBA and true shooting percentage for the playoffs. So whatever it is, it's extremely high. And even at a self-created like pick and roll step back three last night. Yeah. And no, Zach could just quickly on him. Like there was, there's always been the rublings out there when he was in Toronto that he wanted this bigger offensive role. He thought he could do more. He wanted to do more and he's doing it. But it's not as if he's doing it while kind of while pounding the ball into the floor or, you know, doing it outside of the flow of this Nick offense, but he's doing it. And he's showing, he's validating those feelings. If they were real in Toronto, I think they were. They were that he was right. I talked to him when he was in Toronto. He was one of my, you know, how many seasons ago? I don't know, but I used to do this column for a certain website called my five or six most intriguing players for the season. And he was one one year and I interviewed him. And I talked about like, I don't think it's a stretch to say he has all star potential in the NBA if he did a little bit more. And he just flatly in the way he flatly says, like, yeah, I think so. I agree. So he envisioned that kind of stuff for himself. And they've needed him in the series because Duce has disappeared. Landry's shooting has dried up a little bit the last couple of games. Kat's been in foul trouble now. Two games in a row. But I want to talk about like seven threes in this game. Just an astounding shooting performance. And I think the nicks as that game went on kind of figured out what the Spurs were trying to do defensively with Wemba Nyanba. And they kind of rediscovered some of the stuff that worked in the first two games. And I just I find it very interesting what the Spurs are doing because they have, they can put them on Kat. And when they do that, when you scarring Kat straight man to man, the nicks go right into Brunson Kat pick and roll, which is what they should do. Pop Kat out for three is make the defense start to rotate. They're cutting around that has been pristine. They can put them on a heart straight up, which they, I think it was a little bit exaggerated, the degree to which they did that in game in game three. And they did not do it much in game four. He just basically guarded an area and he guarded like a corner slash baseline area. And in games three and four, you could see the next sort of figuring out, okay, how do we want to attack that? And like there are possessions where heart would start in the corner. That's the ideal scenario for San Antonio's semi Wemba zone is heart in the corner. And then heart and an obi would switch places. Heart would go up to the wing and an obi would go to the corner. And that moment is such a delicious little basketball moment. Because in that moment, Wemba, Wemba, Wemba and the Spurs have a decision to make. Is he guarding heart or is he guarding the baseline? Because if he guards heart, he goes with heart up out of the paint. And heart's going to set a ball screen for Brunson. And he's going to be in the action now because it's Josh Hart. He can hang back, play drop defense. Say go ahead, shoot pick and pop three's Josh Hart, but you are away from the paint. And the Spurs have chosen over and over again in the last two games. He's just going to guard the area. And if there's a good shooter there, so be it. There's a good shooter there. And what the Knicks have started to do is clear everyone else out of that side of the floor so that he has no choice when that corner guy comes up to set a screen for Brunson to follow him and be in the pick and roll. And like the Brunson three, they got them to within one at the end of the game. Was that exact action? I think it ended up being Alvarado that he was on. They switched it and he hit a step back three over Wemba Nyama to pull him within one. And the Knicks just have kind of and then there were like. There were some breakdowns I thought where the Knicks with their cutting and their movement kind of confused the Spurs a little bit. And then we got open for a couple of corner threes. I thought Harper misplayed a couple of rotations. And these are hard rotations to make like this is a complex defense for young guys to make. And OG made them pay every single time. And I just I said it after game three. I'm surprised he's not just guarding hard straight up more. And I understand why he's not, but it does make the defense a little simpler for the Spurs when he is. And that's why Kat's foul trouble was such a big part of this game because when Robinson is in or hot porties in, he can just play the defense become simpler. I'm just going to guard the rim running center. Everyone else played normal defense. That's why Kat shooting is such a huge variable because it takes the Spurs out of their sort of comfort, man to man defense. By the way, Kat, did you look at his plus minus numbers? I didn't, but he in the fourth quarter, he was tremendous for this, what was his plus minus? Well, for I don't know yesterday, it was plus something a lot. For the series, he is plus 48 and the Knicks are minus 40 when he's on the bench. Oh, wow. And it's because of how he warps them into this strange defense that I think, it's just my gut. I think they're being a little too cute with it and could put him on heart a little bit more. And there's a thin line between sowing confusion in the other team, which is what they're trying to do by being unpredictable and moving them around and confusing yourself a little bit. And I thought the Spurs sort of veered a little bit. Now, the reason they don't want them on heart is he gets up into open space and there's, I don't know if you remember this, there's one play where he's on heart and heart becomes dream on green. Like they, they posted Kat, Wembee ignores heart to help on Kat's post up and they go into a golden state style split action where Brunson comes off a hard screen and walks into an open three and he misses it. That's what they're afraid of. But credit to Knicks, like they're, they're puzzle solving this just enough, Kat's spacing and ability to offensive rebound against small guys is a huge part of it. But it doesn't matter what you know, he doesn't go absolutely bananas from three in this series. It's, it's remarkable. Zach, I have another stack question for you and I pardon my looking at my phone. I was actually trying to figure it out. You're alive. His numbers since your friends and neighbors aired the, with you and him since it touched the screen. I mean, I think that's part of the rise here. You got to give yourself some credit. Knicks have lost one game. Yeah. Dan Howzen. I'm talking to you, Dan Howzen. You don't get all the credit. Okay. And there's a lot of letters of your friends and neighbors get some of the credit. And so do I because you know, there's a lot of buzz about our, our acting as it did. There's scripts are coming in. Is there like a twins remake that we can do who knows like, I think part of it, he got, he grew confidence seeing himself on the screen with you and that's elevated his game. So I did. Did I am, did I am, did I am you him with that confidence? I don't know. That's for other people to say, you know, we're not even talking about Jalen Brunson. Who, you know, shooting percentage has been below the standard. He's set for himself, particularly the first three games. But last night he, he was the engine, part of the engine that got the Knicks back to within a striking distance. And then as he always does, he had a few big shots late that got them to within one or two points. And it gets overshadowed by in an OB and, and we understand why. But Brunson played a big role in getting them back to within striking distance and then back to where in a position where they could win the game. And the shooting was much better in the second half and the decision making I thought was very good in the second half. And they're obviously not there without them. Let's, let's take a break and talk a little bit more about Jalen Brunson after this. And that was today's finals MVP segment. It was presented by state farm, state farm is here to assist with agents and easy to use these digital tools like the to help set you up with and budget like a good neighbor, state farm is there, cover jobs are selected by the customer price and eligibility vary by state. Meet new grippy setting mist from Mavily New York. Gel to mist technology locks in your look for up to 24 hours, with flexible all-day comfy grip. No tightness, no stickiness, no residue, just plump, dewy hydrated skin that still feels like your skin. Try new grippy setting mist from Mavily New York. Maybe it's Mavily. Jalen Brunson, you're right. When I checked the box score last night after the game, I was like 36 points. Okay, 12 of 25 from the floor, 9 of 11 from the line, 7 assists, three turnovers, a number of big shots late after a lot of scrutiny of his over dribbling, I think, in game three. What happened? What went right? Did he just make Jalen Brunson more, they're just Jalen Brunson shots and they're hard shots and sometimes they go in and sometimes they don't. Was this just like they just went in more? I mean, I think from what I saw, he was getting to the spots that he has operated with success in and whether it was the mid-range and rhythm or he found scenes, driving scenes and he's able to finish whenever you give him an inch of daylight and hit a few drives, multiple drives in that second half where he did finish tough, tough shots at the rim, but that's just where his talent takes him and takes the next. So I don't know if it was anything different from Brunson's perspective from his approach, but I think in that fourth quarter, you know, we talked about Alvarado allowing Brunson to be off the ball at times and Alvarado kind of being that secondary ball handler as a pressure relief for Brunson and the next. I think that's where you could point to something and say, hey, this was different and maybe this is what got Brunson going or what helped him, helped keep him going in that second half. I don't want to belabor the point, but just my Brown's thought process in bringing Alvarado in. Part of it was getting Brunson off the ball and not forcing him to, you know, have to fight the spurs tooth and nail for every inch when he's bringing the ball up or, you know, fighting off the ball. So I think that was part of it. If you want to point to something that was different. It's an interesting point that applies to the other end too because there was a play in game three where the spurs used castle as an off ball cutter. He curled really hard around a fox pick in the corner. Similar to the corner stuff, they run for Wembee that they ran a lot more of last night. And he cut with such force, they kicked him the ball. He kicked it back to Fox for an open three that missed. But it just made me think, like, there's so much castle on the ball in this series. Less so last night because of the foul trouble. And it makes sense because if you run castle, Wemba Nyama picking rolls and I thought the spurs were smart sort of mixing up the structure of their picking rolls. More of them just with Wembee is the only screener last night and shooting around and then you put your two worst three point shooters in the pick and roll with all their best shooters around them. It makes sense. But then you have Deer and Fox who's a point guard and Dylan Harper who just is like so ready for all of this. And you start to imagine a world in which like could they put castle off the ball a little bit more? And I think the Fox thing, look man, he hasn't had a great playoffs. He's probably injured. Last night was a catastrophe that will be one of the defining moments of his career and of spurs franchise history, a period if they lose this series. I was out to lunch with an agent two days ago who said, well, what do you think? When do you think they start talking about do we have to trade Fox to open up the offense for Harper? And all year I've said, I think this is a perfect situation for Fox like be the veteran mentor. Don't overtax any of these point guards. They're in the finals. Obviously it's worked. But I did my answer and this is two days ago to this guy was looking at his contract, which is four years, 55 million a pop and doesn't even start till next season. I think Harper in particular has reached the point of like if some team actually called me with a palatable offer for Fox, I'd have to at least start thinking about it now to get ahead of it. I don't think they're going to do that. I don't think that call is coming really. And ironically, one of the teams that's desperate for a point guard is the Kings who are I don't think that's happening. By the way, how about Mike Brown having to watch the air and Fox below the game last night? That's an interesting King's little emotion emotionally fraught. And the Kings are obviously picking it up in a point of the draft. There's a lot of point guards. But I do think you'd have to listen to a palatable offer and get ahead of it a little bit because you could frame it in two ways. Number one, it's obviously worked with the three point guards. They're three wins away from the NBA title. Number two, have you already kind of gotten out of Fox? What you hoped to get out of him, which is veteran mentor for young guys first test of the playoffs. Like we're in the finals. I think you'd have to think about it. And then we went back and forth on like who's the team that would trade for him. And I don't know who the team is. But the one thing I did say was if Yanis gets traded. And I think Yanis is getting traded. I think that I think the two spaces all the way out of the tube. And he gets traded to a team like Miami or just say like Brooklyn made a crazy play for Yanis. I don't think that's going to happen. But let's say they did. Let's basically a team trades for him. And they don't have quite enough still on their team to be like we're a tier one contender. We just traded all these. That's what you want. We trade all our picks and young guys for Yanis. You want to be a contender. But we're not. Is Fox a guy that could be the next guy in the door for that kind of team? Like get him on the cheek. He's still a really good player. He made the all-star team this year. We're a little bit desperate because we just are pot committed to Yanis. I just do just say I don't think that's going to happen. I think the spurs if they lose this series are just going to let this rest. But I do think like Harper has been so good. And it's such like a central casting lead guard in the NBA. They have to figure out how he and Castle fit together. I don't worry about that at all. I love Steph Castle. I'd love to have them on my team. But I don't know man. Like it's going to be interesting because this has been a not great playoff for him. And last night was like catastrophically bad. I mean a couple of things that come to mind. Is it is it overly simplistic? Just to say flip the rolls. Fox comes off the bench fewer minutes. But then you're paying a bench guy $55 million a year for the next four years. Right. But if you're going to trade him and not get the value that you would deem as you know equitable or palatable. Maybe that's something to try. But the other thing that you bring up is best name because you know there are teams that are right there that will need point guards. I mean Minnesota is the obvious one. Houston has bansley coming back. But I wonder if they explore the point guard market there. And so even without that gana's trade. That's true contenders who are going to be looking for a point right now. Kyrie Irving. I think we'll be you know among the point guards that these teams call about. John Moran. I don't I think more of a reclamation project. I don't think a team that's ready to win what take him. I mean I've heard that the market is it was has been tepid for Moran. And you know people look at Sacramento. But I think Sacramento is confident that they could get a really good guard in this draft. So the Moran thing is different. But yeah, I just wonder those kinds of teams that you mentioned without even the honest trade. Yeah. If you miss out on one of the guys that you like, do you pivot the fox? But I you know, I don't know. I don't have my finger on the pulse of San Antonio. But I just wonder if it will be too early for them. Do they think it would be too early to make a drastic move like that? I'm saying right now if I'm Brian right and you bring me a decent offer. Like we got to at least have a meeting about it because the contract is not going to age well. I don't think I you know, I'm disappointed in it is playing the playoffs. But again, he's he's playing with some kind of high ankle sprain or whatever. It's a good point about Moran is another one of like by low. We can we can add him to our team. Whether it's Yannis not Yannis is like because I think he's going to get traded too. But the honest thing I think it's happening. Like the teams are operating as if it's happening. Agents are operating as if it's happening. Like they're looking at Milwaukee as a rebuilding team. They're looking at Milwaukee as a team that might have another first round pick in the lottery and like scheduling their draft workouts around it. Like everyone is just operating and getting the vibe of like, this is going to happen. Or like teams that other agents have told me like teams that are in the Yannister be like, we're acting as if they might not have their first round pick in the draft because they're going to trade it like that. Anyway, I don't want to talk too much about that. Brunson. Yeah, man, he sticks with it. I mean, that's what that's the defining feature of the nicks. They're just a professional basketball team. They stick with it. They play their game. They haven't played like a bad game in quite a long time. And boy, oh boy, did they stick with it last night? What have we missed from last night? Been going into a game, whatever five. I mean, we hit Cass. We hit Jose. I mean, we hit the fouls more than they talk about the fouls in the post game, the cat fouls because that, I mean, that, look, you can sit here and say like, I think the nicks end up shooting where free throws, the fouls are even whatever. Those cat is so definitional to how they play in the structure of how they play against one banana. Those three fouls. And it's the one where he kind of There's some contact with Fox on a drive on the first play of the game where he shuts out his stomach a little bit, but Fox shuts into him, hands up. That's a foul. There's the proximate foul where he gets called for hooking Wembee after Wembee was initially called for a foul. I didn't love that only because the reason he hooks Wembee is because Wembee is hugging him, like Wembee initiates the arm under arm structure. Yeah. And then there's the pushoff on cornnet for a rebound, which is probably a foul, but on the other hand, it wasn't a gratuitous arm's extended pushoff. I think that should net out at one and a half fouls. But did they talk about it all or did they just forget it? We won the game. Yeah. It was more so the latter. It didn't come up. And obviously, if the mix had lost that game, the narrative in New York would be about the officials and the conspiracy theories. And yeah, that's where the attention would be because of those towns, vows early on. I mean, I took a walk to meet a friend at halftime in the concourse after checking it on the Wu Tang halftime performance, which didn't end on that there. Nick, I think our plus 30 since Wu Tang has been on the court, performing a halftime. But anyway, yeah, a couple of few people stopped me and they're like, they're down 27 and it's not all the refs fault, but those those calf vows stuck out to everybody who was watching the game. So that would have been the narrative here locally had they lost the game. I thought the refs, I was joking like, I think they're going to need to get Trump's motorcade back here to get these refs out of the arena, because this is going to be ugly. Look, is Tony Brothers, if he wraps the game in New York, I do in a half series way worry about that because, you know, everybody was screaming about him in game two. And the officiating has been a storyline here. And I think that, you know, I'm the last one to look at officiating. I think it's kind of something that, you know, if you're emotionally looking at a game, it's something that's you're going to get drawn to. But I think even myself, people are talking about, it just seems like the calls have been more, much more to the spurs benefit than the Knicks. And, and I don't know what are your thoughts are generally on the officiating in the series? I think it's been a little bit overblown, but probably like 55, 45, you know, spurs have gotten a little bit. And the cat fouls, like we've seen cat getting foul trouble a lot. Normally they're just bad fouls, like, like obvious fouls, the, these are not those. And, and, and I, I didn't love any of the three calls to be honest. Um, okay, I've been waiting to do this. When they won game two, I did my post game pot. And I said that what they, I think it was their 13th consecutive win. And I said, this is one of the most magical things in the history of sports that I've ever seen any sport, not just basketball. Most people agreed. Some people said I was being hyperbolic. I don't think it's hyperbolic. Like, and, and I tried to find out like, I mean 13 games in a row with a net rating of like 20 in those games is just crazy and magical. And it got me thinking, like, is there even a comp for this team? Let's, and, and we're now three games. It three wins into the finals. It's time to at least, like, we can at least talk about it. Um, and by comp, I mean, the next were a third seed, 53 win team. Like, good team, not, not great. Like, what probably great ish, but like, you know, run of the mill, 53 win team. Right. They are now 15 and three in the playoffs with a net rating of plus 16 and an average margin of victory of plus 15 and a half. So they went from run of the mill good to just this is a Jordan bulls to rant curry warriors level blitzkrieg through the playoffs. I think that's basically completely anomalous in the history of the NBA. So here I did some deep dive. Are you ready? This is simple basketball reference stuff. I'll go back and do it better later, but this is what I have for now. I searched for every team who won the title, had four or fewer losses on their way to the title and a margin of victory of 10 or more per game. Okay. So like dominant playoff runs, there's probably teams that had five, six losses that could fit, but that's my criteria. I just thought it'd be fun. Here are the teams. The 2017 warriors. They went 16 to one in the playoffs, 67 and 15 in the regular season. The 2001 Lakers. That would be the comp 15 and one in the playoffs 56 wins in the regular season with actually a worse regular season point differential than the X the differences. They had won the championship the previous year and had Kobe and Shaq and everybody knew what they were. The 1996 bulls 72 and 10 in the regular season. You may remember that team 15 at three in the playoffs. The 1991 bulls 61 and 21 in the regular season 15 and two in the playoffs. The 1987 Los Angeles Lakers 65 and 17 in the regular season 15 and three in the playoffs. The 1986 Boston Celtics 67 and 15 in the regular season 15 and three in the playoffs. The 1985 Los Angeles Lakers 62 and 20 15 and four in the playoffs. That's the whole list. That's the list that Nick Suron right now in terms of playoff dominance. It's the greatest teams in the history of the sport teams at 160 65 70 regular season games. The next 153 just makes absolutely no sense. Then I did another search. Are you ready, Mr. Begley? Please keep it coming. I did a search for let's see. This is a regular season winning percentage less than two thirds because you have to account for a lockout. So like that's what about where the nicks were winning percentage wise. So I'm searching for pretty good teams won the finals and had a margin of victory in the regular season seven or less because that's about where the nicks were. So won the finals run of the middle regular season team. Here are the teams 2004 pistons 54 wins 16 and seven in the playoffs. The dominant playoff run is not quite there. Interesting comp for a number of reasons. This may be the best comp of all the 2023 nuggets 53 and 29 in the regular season 16 and four in the playoffs with a plus eight point differential again the nicks are plus 16 like it's double that 2022 Warriors 53 and 29 in the regular season 16 and six in the playoffs plus five like not close to what the nicks are doing in the playoffs. 2006 heat 52 and 30 in the regular season 16 and seven in the playoffs plus four not close to what the nicks are doing in the playoffs. I promise I'm done already. Now we're getting into what I call the Simmons zone 1979 Sonics 52 and 30 12 and five in the playoffs plus two and a half not close to what the nicks are doing. 1977 Blazers 49 and 33 in the regular season 14 and five in the playoffs pretty dominant plus 4.7 not close to what the nicks are doing obviously the three and all that with margins can be bigger now right 1995 rockets that the repeat team 47 and 35 in the regular season they trade for Drexler halfway through 15 and seven in the playoffs plus three not close to what the nicks are doing two more 2021 bucks 42 and 26 in a 72 game season 16 and seven in the playoffs plus five not a not a super dominant playoff run but interesting comp 1978 bullets 44 and 38 the worst record I think to ever win the title 14 and seven in the playoffs plus four like none of these so these are like the pretty did the good to great regular season teams who end up winning the title none of them the nuggets are the closest one with a 16 and four plus eight I just think this is like I've never seen anything like this there's no matchup really between what that it's it's just unbelievable what's happened like they went from 53 and 29 to 15 and 3 plus 15 and a half and like yeah sure the 59 point winner or whatever gets the hawks is they blew the shit out of everybody not in the finals but that's I think it's totally anomalous it's crazy and it also happens after they got down to one to Atlanta both losses by the way coming by one point so close games and then they make the shifts to towns as the hub and that's not the only thing the only reason things changed and addressed the way it's part of it but yeah the the golf between the regular season performance and the postseason performance I don't think there's a comp for that Zach I really don't and you could look at it also like two ways with the east you could say well the east was so bad maybe in a normal year the next regular season isn't a 53 win season maybe it's even like a 49 48 47 win season taking taking plus injuries to keep players etc etc right and what you could say like the playoff numbers are a product partially of a week east I could see that either way but you know the bottom line is it's happening and it happened and to me once I saw James Dolan and Stefan Marbury sitting next to each other I believe it was the game six in Atlanta when the nicks went absolutely crazy once I saw those two sitting next to each other celebrating Nick dominance I just thought anything is on the table because it ended so ugly with Marbury in New York with Dolan in the middle of it you know those two together it just told me anything is possible here with this Nick team [BLANK_AUDIO] those two can unite over this group. - Look, when I picked Nick's in seven, I just, it was corny. I said, I think something magical has happened to the Nick's. I still think that that said, it's plus eight after four games. I expect this first to regroup and make the Nick's earnest. And if this first win, game five, game six is going to be pressure-packed at MSG, like nothing that's come yet. So TBD on that, just a couple other final notes. I thought the Nick's were really a forceful in game four of pushing the pace, which I think is important for them because it gets them into the blender and just sort of organically gets the ball moving. And I like when Town's attacks smaller guys from the elbow when Wembee is playing that zone. And the one possession that I saw it was, Carter Bryant was on him and he drove. And yeah, Wembee came over to help and Kat had to kick out at the rim. But it got the blender going and OGN and OB hit a corner, three out of it. Those are two of the things I would look for in game five. But one win away, man, one win away from history, one win away from a party like no other in New York City, whether there are press releases about where the party can be or not, TBD. But I expect this first to come out and make a minute and make it tough, but I do expect the Nick's to close it out one way or another. But boy, if they get it to six, that atmosphere is going to be pretty both celebratory and tense at the same time, don't you think? - Super, super tense. And, you know, I don't want to be a Debbie Downer today, but just because it was a Metz reference, I found it interesting. There was a media member. We were talking about the OG moment and kind of how we're ranked and how iconic it was in New York sports moments. Yeah, the David Tyree Catch, you had Bill Buckner. And it would be right up there. But the Nick's have to win for it to be right up there. And in the chance that they do lose, the media member said, "Hey, it's like the Andy Chavez catch "for the Metz in that CS where he makes an unbelievable catch, "but they still lose that game to the Cardinals." And you don't really remember it the same way. So OG, that moment, maybe would get that treatment if the Nick's fault party, but I don't think they will. I think there's too much going on their side to close this thing out. I'm with you. I think somehow some way they figure out how to get that final win and then it's going to be Bedlam in New York. Well, thanks for ending the podcast by bringing up Metz pain. Yeah, that's really nice of you. Coming off to straight horrible losses to the St. Louis Cardinals. We'll do a Metz corner once the finals is over. Ian Beggar, you're going to San Antonio, correct? Yes. Enjoy. I am staying home because I am Bill's post-game Saturday, live Netflix podcast guest. So I will miss that game. I'll be a game 6 if there is a game 6. Ian, thank you. You're the best. Thank you to Billy, Jonathan, and Mike on production. Again, I'll be with Bill on Saturday. And then we'll sort of TBD it after that, depending on the results of the game. And thanks to you all, of course, for listening to Andor watching this "Aklo Show." We'll see you next time. [MUSIC PLAYING] 21 are over. And president select states for Kansas, in affiliation with Kansas, Starkisino, or 18 and over in president DC. Kentucky, or Wyoming, gambling problem. Call 1-800-Gambler, or 1-800-My-Reset. Call 1-888-789-7777, or visit ccpg.org/chat in Connecticut. Or is it mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland? Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org, or call 800-327-5050 for 24/7 support in Massachusetts. Or call 1-877-8-Hope-NY, or text-hope-NY in New York. For Louisiana, call 1-877-770-7867. Imagine setting your makeup. Then forgetting it's even theirs. Just plump, dewy, hydrated skin. That still feels like your skin. Maybe it's Maybelline.