The Most Important Moves Coming Out Of This Year's Draft Weekend

[Music] >>Regressing to the mean since 2015. It's the hockey EPDO cast with your host, Demetri Philip Ovech. >>Welcome to the hockey EPDO cast. My name is Demetri Philip Ovech and joining me is my good buddy, Jack Braser, Jack, what's going on, man? >>I'm feeling good. I have rock fever. >>You do. You got both of the rucks on your favorite team. Very exciting. I'd be curious to see some of the conversations that happened for some of the teams who were picking early and around two in between if they were any shenanigans or any considerations for messing up their plans, but it all worked out nicely. We are recording as day two, the NHL draft is wrapping up and tomorrow I'm going to do another show I'm going to have Scott Wheeler on and we'll get into all the details of the actual prospects that were picked, what teams did with their picks, and all the analysis there. You and I today are going to focus on more of the main roster action of the item, some of the trades we saw in the lead up to the draft and then on night one on Friday as well and break them down. And maybe end with some questions we have leading into the next big date on the NHL calendar, which is July 1st, the Breeshency opening up on Wednesday. I'll give you the floor here. I've got about seven or eight situations that I think definitely weren't unpacking for us today, but I'll give you the floor as our guest to pick which one you want to start with. >>Do we want to start with Dorf Fave? >>Let's do it. I mean, undoubtedly an interesting one. Last time you and I spoke was during the Stanley Cup final and I think we had a question from a listener about which players had increased their stock and earning power the most with their performance this postseason and he was right near both of our lists and he had an awesome playoffs, not just the 12 goals he scored by I think, you know, when you look at his player card, for example, on hockey stats, you see that he's 95th percentile, even strength defensive impact and it might surprise some people because I think these player types of elite finishers and shooters and goal scores typically don't carry that. Supplemental value with them. It's interesting comparing it to like the biggest environment and generally there's such a good defensive team and their players trend really well in that stat, but I think you could see it on tape and his performance in the playoffs with the four checking and puck possession stuff along the wall that lands itself to him looking so favorably in that category and that makes them such a unique player, right? Like there's very few guys who can score realistically 35 to 40 plus goals in their prime who also have that type of defensive value goalscores are generally very one dimensional and so that makes them a very interesting player and then certainly going from an extreme environment of Vegas to a very questionable one in New York with what they have amongst their personnel and then the investment they made and the acquisition cost like it's a it's a lot more. Yeah, yeah, I'm a fan of the player and like you said, the two way impact the impact off the puck is I think the most interesting thing about him. You know, you mentioned the four checking. I think he's just a more hard working player when he's away from the puck than people would give credit for it to somebody who profiles as kind of appears in the type. The big question I think starting him especially now that New York is not only, you know, obviously invested a decent amount of trade capital and getting him, but also locking up to that huge seven times 11 contract is how it's going to transfer over. I mean, I the consistency in the impacts especially defense one zero year, I think are encouraging. The real area where theoretically this could go south is that he is such an off-puck player like you look at his microstats who watch the tape he's not a guy who spends a lot of time handling the puck himself. He's not very active in transition. He's not the most prolific playmaker, for example. He's a relatively slow skater. These are all things that with theoretically profile not too interestingly, but he puts the puck in the net so well, especially on the power play such a versatile score. And he's somebody who doesn't need a lot of touches to make a big impact. You know, especially just like you you watch him kind of on you know, if you watch the tape of his goals, he really times his lanes well to get to the inside. You know, he's not somebody who really hangs out in the slide. He'll kind of circle around and read the defense is really well. Obviously in Vegas, he was in a position where he was oftentimes playing with very smart playmakers and that's not to say that there aren't smart playmakers in New York, JT Miller, Laferneers, Van Agethe, these are all high level passers, but not to the extent that he's gotten accustomed to playing with in Vegas. So I am curious how that's going to transfer over, but I mean the pieces to this player, I think are really encouraging and you know, I don't think the Rangers really had to pay quite as much for him in a trade as I may be expected them to have to. I think it's fair to question the why of it in terms of you know, some of the moves they made over the past, let's say beer beer and a half of trading away veterans and looking like they're steering towards a rebuild. And you know, it sounds like Vincent Trocheck will probably at some point become the latest guy to be sent out at the same time I do think the silver lining is door of the I was going to be 26 of the start of the season in this contract essentially covers like the extent of his prime from 26 to 32 and it's a nice change of pace for them to be investing at least this type of a player as opposed to their general history of acquiring and committing to you know declining assets who are already in their 30s. The price they paid is interesting to me because they send out the 26th overall pick which has one hell of a trade tree already it's a pick that's been used to acquire me co-rantan in Keonjury Miller and now Pavledore if you have 90 second overall and then the Rangers 20 28 first and you know they mitigate some of the risk by having a top 10 protection on it but we'll see what winds up coming up that and it's a nice trade chip moving forward for Vegas certainly the contract that they immediately signed into then 11 by 7 and we typically don't see full freight paid for our faith is even ones who are close to their year of a years the way Dorothea is you see a discount typically and you know job on his model like he had his market value at 11.1 million and so that's pretty much in line with what they paid here as full price for him and maybe that's indicative of where we're heading with all this talk about the cap going up and players looking to benefit from it typically our phase or the kind is kind of like a projection of maybe you pay more up front based on the production they've had so far but you're betting on it looking good as they get better and a big role and the cap keeps going up in this case they kind of just bet on the player being this good moving forward and so that makes it interesting and it also sets a nice little benchmark for guys like March and go in the sort of scoring wingers that are going to come up for paydays over the next year or two to the point to and be like that's a nice little pay day I want that myself so I think there's going to be quite a few trickle down elements of this one. Yeah for sure I mean the sticker shock is going to be a continuing theme this season with these kinds of contracts we've already seen it with the top contract obviously yeah the 11 million kind of being a bit more like a point five 8.6 under the previous cap about half way through that deal I think is worth considering you know this is certainly first line money you know verging on kind of star territory money but it's not the super super star money that 11 million dollars used to be so you know I mean you know like like Donald is going to model like it is very conceivable to the contract that he'll live up to I just hope for for his sake and also for the sake of ranger stands that his transition to a different team a different environment different line mates is going to be smooth and that he's going to be able to keep putting the bucket in the net and playing that two way game the way that he was able to in the environment in Vegas. Yeah I mean he's one of the goals for I think he has 72 goals the past two years just tied for 15th most and added another 12 this post season and I imagine he's going to have success on this power play especially with like some of the options they're going to have up top there with Fox at least for the time being quarter backing it and then him has been a jet essentially being on opposing flanks but if I want to five I do think it is a fair question of you know for a guy who is very useful but does it in unique ways where he doesn't typically touch the puck that much himself unless he's shooting it who's going to get him that puck now I don't think is a bit of a really nice and probably under reported bounce back season last year and it feels like as he's entered this different stage of his career he's sort of transition to being a bit more of a facilitator and playmaker especially a 515 and so maybe that gives you a nice option there but yeah I think he's going to need to keep adding layers to his game and adjust because I imagine trying to sort of translate exactly how he played in Vegas the past couple years to this new environment it could probably lead to a lot of frustration where he's just not getting the puck where he wants it. Yeah for sure and I think it's also worth thinking about what this move means for the Rangers I mean you alluded to that putting 28 protective first round pick. You know I think we've had some conversations about where this team is going whether guys like Adam Foxman end up being available. You know they've kind of been a bit of stasis the past couple years after being you know in the verge of being a couple of contender before that I think this is pretty clearly making a mark in the stand saying that they are going to continue to try to go for it as long as Adam Fox and just darken our in their primes which is interesting and I think speaks to like a potentially. dangerous decision they've made whereby trading that pick today is they've almost kind of locked themselves out of rebuilding the same way that you could argue the leaves have by trading those future picks under for living. Which again, we'll see if that ends up working out. We'll see what further moves they make because I don't know that just having a dorfay of Fox just turkey and core is going to be enough to really get them back to that cup contention tier. But it's an interesting kind of macro level move that the Rangers have made here to really state that they're still going to be going forward and that they're not going to be taking a step back. Well, they do a similar thing with the JT Miller trade previously, right? Kind of sending out of that was an unprotected pick or at least would translate to one and they wound up ultimately keeping it that one year. But it kind of positions them to keep going in that direction. They clearly clearly, I think also show this weekend that they don't really have a lot of desire to bottom out because with their fifth overall pick and I really like this player and I think he's going to be an awesome NHLR but they took Albert Smith's there and one of the biggest selling points on him is how pro ready he is already and how he looked at the Olympics and the idea that he's probably immediately from the start of the season going to slot into the left side on their second pair and play meaningful minutes for them as opposed to some of these other defensemen that were available that are might have more upside moving forward but are probably going to take two, three years before we ever see them in the NHL and so I think the combination of these two me moves kind of telegraphs that one again to Vegas's perspective here a little bit because it's certainly sort of status quo for them in terms of not being committed to players and I think Doraphia and Korsak were the only two guys on their Stanley Cup finalist roster that they had drafted and developed themselves and how they send out Doraphia here who was a big success story for them as a former third round pick that they sort of nurtured into the player he's become I think they could have made the money work conceivably they would have had to subtract elsewhere but assuming there's following moves and I think one of them is probably going to be trying to find a shooter for a inhales contract after his signing bonus is pipe paid on July 1st maybe including either a tumult hurdle or a William Carlson and if they accomplish that it's going to carve out a pretty sizable amount of calf space for them to be a serious shooter for either Jill Narkin or whichever star player they identify and want to bring in as the sort of latest addition that they've constructed as such. Yeah like I was not expecting them to be trading Doraphia just looking at the older names that are on their cap sheet like Carlson like Tom Schurtle but you know I think at the $11 million it is a little bit more understandable to me why they didn't want to necessarily make that investment I would not hold my breath that they're going to be using that New York Rangers first drum pick at any point but I mean it is this point of them just because again like this is a team that has so much playmaking talent at the top end of their roster and they managed to have a real success story with Doraphia as a pure sniper who you know essentially complemented those guys absolutely perfectly as a guy who would be able to pitch in defensively but isn't a puck dominant player can just you know complement them on the powerplan at even strength so they are going to have to find some way to replace those goals especially since this is really kind of it all in time for this core I'm not quite sure how they're going to do it you alluded to Jill Narkin that is an interesting option they could theoretically make that work now in a way that wasn't really conceivable before I know we've talked a lot about the questions of what they're going to do with brass sanderson whether they're going to just stick with their guns on that one or let them walk but yeah Vegas has a lot of pressure on right now because this core is not getting any younger they came pretty close this year and they've had a pretty big surprise in Doraphia that they're going to have to replace. All right let's keep them moving because we've got a lot to get through today I want to talk JJ Proturka next you know Boston sends 23rd overall and Florida's 2028 top 10 protected first which if it isn't relayed becomes a 29 Bruins unprotected pick it strikes me as a pretty low risk and reasonably high upside move for the Bruins not only because you know they make it back to the playoffs this year I think there's a lot to build on there with the level pass or act is still playing at Charlie McAvoy Jeremy Swaman like it's understandable that they identified a player like this and wanted to go for it and honestly the price carries very minimal risk in my opinion especially considering Proturka turns 25 this season he signed at a at a really nice number 7.7 times four for a lot of those prime seasons I think a general trend that we've seen in the league this week is some of these guys who were signed under the previous contract terms are even more desirable because you don't have to worry about what that next ticket is going to look like for them and I imagine he's going to be a great fit especially if it's playing next to Pastor neck but obviously the connection with her coach Merkel's term and the German connection there like I think they're going to get a lot out of them and you know it was very disappointing one year stop for him in Utah considering all the hype and I'm responsible for that as well I did like a full show on the fit between him and the mammoth after the acquired him this time last year I don't think it was necessarily as bad as it seems on the surface I know that his points drop from 68 to 47 and comp playoffs he had six pointless games where he drop down to you know fringe third line usage essentially for them and really fell into Andre Terni's dog house and out of the team's rotation ultimately but if you watch last year like you still pretty much did all the stuff that they had us so excited about him and his five on five production was pretty much online with what it had been previously in the two years and Buffalo before the initial trade and so the idea that he's going to kind of bounce back and might not even need to necessarily bounce back as much as you'd expect seems like a pretty reasonable scenario here for him and the Bruins. Yeah I don't know that my outlook on him has really changed it all since that trade happened last year and you know encouragingly if all goes south like clearly he has a skill says this being valued based on the fact that he had it down year and he still went for you know I agree with you not adding extravagant trade return and one that I'm totally fine with Boston paying but you know also I pretty decent one in terms of assets yeah I'm still high on him I mean that kind of quick strike offensive ability you know he's got great hands he's got a great shot you know he also has I think that kind of off-puck IQ that you want in the goal score I just think yeah like it seemed like a good fit at the time with Utah but I think there's some cases where a player can be so good a fit that he actually becomes a little bit redundant and that there are too many players of his type in Utah that you know looking back it almost seems kind of inevitable that if you didn't immediately make a huge impact that he might slide down the roster I remember you know watching him early in the season and thinking that they were kind of asking him to do a lot of different things that weren't necessarily pillars of this game like he was having to forecheck more he was becoming more of kind of a facilitating guy in transition instead of a guy who carries the puck himself which I think went away towards rounding out his game but it maybe handcuffed him from making that kind of high-level rush impact that we saw previously in Buffalo you know I think the investment that the Bruins I've made here really identifying this is a player that they want to target speaks to you know the more central role that he's probably going to play in their offense you know and like you said I think he is quite compatible player with with Pass-Renat but I think he could also provide some kind of middle six scoring punch that they really really need and that 7.7 you know like you said is a totally reasonable cap it for what he brings I would expect him to have a pretty comfortable bounce back season there's obviously issues with this player in terms if he's had some defensive problems he you know like to blow the zone sometimes he doesn't have a physical element to his game anymore which you know it's kind of interesting considering that it's almost the opposite of how he profiled when he was drafted but given his 5-1-5 scoring ability and his ability with the puck I think that he will be a valuable asset for the Bruins as they continue almost like the Rangers to kind of muddle through and continue to try to make themselves competitive because they have such you know incredible star players on the roster especially in light of how they played last year in the Marcos term where they really did not have the puck a lot and profiled very poorly in a lot of the possession metrics but were quite dangerous off of those kind of counters and quick strikes and he's going to lend his skill set is going to lend itself nicely to that and yet to the point that I made earlier like pretty much the entire difference in his production from one year to the next is represented by a lack of power play production in Utah and that's something that plague that entire team I I do wish we had gotten to an hindsight just see more of him with coolian Gunther there was a stretch there kind of 20 games in to the season where it was like this is exactly what I anticipated it would look like and it was so exciting and then they kind of went away from it and on to turn you clearly didn't trust them and you know just generally as a philosophy I don't love the idea of making these types of roster decisions based on a coach's preferences I know they just gave journey a bit of an extension but I think we all agree that like by the time this team is really at its apex a couple years from now he probably won't be the coach of them and I general in general would like to just bet on the talent and allow it to work itself out and not sort of of make these types of moves just based on a coach's whims, but we've gotten to this point. And so it was understandable why they went to direction. I would have loved to see a team like Ottawa pounce on this. I know they acquired William Eclin, but like obviously the connection between him and Stitsla would be an obvious one, but I think in general, like his shooting talent would lend itself so nicely with the pace that Stitsla plays at. So I would have preferred that instead, from Utah's perspective here, they wind up using the 23rd pick on Sebastian Kosa, which is fine. You and I neither of us are equipped to talk about him as what he is as a goalie moving forward. I'll have Kevin Woodley on at some point of the obviously. And I'm sure we'll circle back to that. I think just generally though, they played with Melco way too much the past two years. There was that stretch two years ago where you played like 25 straight games. And then last year he was the only goalie in the league that played 60 plus games. And he finished with 64 and was clearly visibly wearing down. So it gives him another option there. I think the biggest benefit though is essentially having a do over. You know, they wound up regrettably wasting the Josh Dough and asset. And we saw what he became a Buffalo. But beyond that, it clears up that 7.7 and caps basically. He's then with 20 plus now. And I feel like it's one of those TBD things in terms of evaluating it because I kind of want to see what they do with it next and how ambitiously they're able to swing. I know they've been very reluctant to include their child prospects like a Tijaginla or a Caleb Danway or even the boot and seam a chef tier of guys they've drafted. But they could put together a pretty compelling Jason Robertson package, for example, if they wanted to assuming you'd want to sign there with some of those young players, other picks, they have a crew like this Panthers 2028 pick. And then even roster player contributors who are kind of lost in the shuffle. Someone in Utah, like a Barrett Hayden or a Sean Jersey. So that would be a very interesting sort of follow up here. And I think would look more favorably upon this decision than if they kind of just use this cap space to add more sort of fringe middle six guys and just go into the offseason with all the room to spend. Yeah, I think they're also an interesting dark horse, Larkin Contender. If that's somewhere that he wants to go as well, which is always the consideration with these things, I did appreciate that they took-- they're the ones who took bell shots yesterday. They did, yeah. They traded up to get him. Yes, they traded up to get him. And then they also added cost of it because I've always said on the show that I just want the man to have the tallest team possible. And I remember being a little annoyed that they traded Castle Ring for Patricia last year because it was contrary to that narrative. So I do appreciate that. But no, I'm with you. I mean, looking at their depth chart right now, taking up a ticket does leave maybe a little bit of a hole in terms of scoring punch in their top six. So I think they have a lot of flexibility. They, like you said, are a very asset-rich team. I think their blue line is looking quite solid right now, where they don't really need to prioritize that. So it will be interesting to see how they approach the rest of the season because really, in terms of their trajectory and everything like that, there isn't much of a reason for them not to be a compelling destination for those kind of mid-20s trade requesting players to go to. So I think that would be an interesting target. You want to see them put together an NBA team in Bill Armstrong's, like St. Omar, and he will gladly oblige with that. They also seem to be in the mix with the Habs. And I imagine the Sabers in the Marchenko discussion. And we're going to talk more about Marchenko in a second here. But that would be an interesting swing for them as well. Going to quickly do Mason McTabish before we go to break because he was the third sort of big name player that was moved on day one of the draft. And I do think this the amount of attention nationally, this whole ordeal got over the past week was probably overblown in comparison to what I actually think of him in terms of impact. And as a player at this point, the Blues send 50 and 29 for him. And I'm kind of torn on it because I'm generally very skeptical of it. And I feel like there would have been a lot of spots. Like let's say he went to the Rangers and they were rumored to be very interested. I would have been completely out on it. I do think the Blues at least stand to be a potential fit for it in terms of minimizing some of his weaknesses and potentially getting the best out of them. And it fits nicely with the general core and composition of their forward group. And they had these four first round picks to play with. So I don't necessarily hate it. But I do think that a lot of people are sort of receiving this news as, wow, what a big get. Mason McTabish. I remember when he was a top five pick. And everyone was so excited about him. And there is some promise there. If you can figure out the weaknesses to his game, but the weaknesses are so abundant and so visible that I think there's a lot of work to be done here. Yeah. If he didn't have that kind of third overall pick pedigree and you were just watching everything else in the vacuum, I don't think that he would quite have any of our approach in the hype that he has had. I think because people, they not only remember his draft position, but also, I think he was considered to be a very heart and soul leader, wears a letter, battles in the corner, battles in front of the net kind of player. And just some extent, he's been that player in Anaheim. But I think he's run into a whole lot of obstacles that have prevented him from being an impact player. And that's a reason why in a vacuum, he theoretically should be a player that Verbi Glouzen becomes a core player at the Sanaheim team. And instead, he's one of the more expendable players. It's like you said, you watch him and it's a bit aggravating because there's good pieces there and stuff that could be really useful. He could be that strong in that front player. You see him handle the puck when he has empty runway in front of him and he does look confident and strong with it. He'll get the puck behind the net or in the corner and he'll make a tape to tape pass across the slot. And you'll wonder where the hell that came from. Because the other half of the time, you're watching him in transition, fumbling in pucks or failing to get to the outside or get to the inside off the rush. I think the feet are just such a big problem with this player where he's always a step behind that really negative defensive impact he has. I think stems a lot from how much he wants to jump up in the play and how deep he wants to go in the off at the zone and how completely flat-footed he finds himself caught. But also that if he's chasing a puck in the corner against the defense, when he's almost never going to be the first one there and he's not really able to dig in and use the physical gifts that he has productively. Like you said, I think that there's a way that they can take what he does have with a small area of skill, the ability to go at the net front and insulate it properly and hopefully mitigate some of the more negative aspects. But it is going to be a project. I don't think it's going to necessarily come totally easy. And I think that there's an awful lot of downside with this player just as much as there is outside at this point. Yeah, I'm sympathetic to the idea that he misses all that time in the lead up to the year. And it's not only that, but he's stepping into then just a wildly different uptempo environment that ducks played in compared to the past and just left him behind ultimately. And by the playoffs, he was a non-factory guy. He'll be scratched a couple times. He wound up being their 12th most frequently used forward at 515 and their 12 playoff games. And it made him very expendable here and kind of getting off that 7 million times 5 commitment that they owed him. The defensive stuff is certainly worrisome being a first percentile defender of the penalties he takes. The foot speed, though, is the most unavoidable thing. And I think it's gotten to the point where I don't even really view him unless he dramatically improves it as a viable option down the middle. And that's why I mentioned that I think the Blues are at least interesting because they have Robert Thomas, they have Oliver Dvoroski, they have Piuszutr for another year. I like what I saw from Mottos, Denver. Last year, they just took two more centers to add to the organization in 11 and 16. And so there's ways to kind of mitigate some of that risk by playing them on the wing, hoping that some of the play makers they have can get them the puck and advantage of spots. And he does legitimately have shooting talent. And so it could be interesting, especially for a player who's 24. I do like what the Blues are doing here in general, though. Like all these guys with Thomas being the oldest member of the bunch, turning 27 this season. And then Dvoroski being 21, pretty much everyone they have is in between that age range in that window with Holloway, Snuggaroo, McDivish, now, neighbors, Mike Michael, who they acquired for Cairo. And so it's an ascending team. And I think in general, they're set up quite nicely from a talent perspective. They also acquired Brandon Carlo for two thirds, which is whatever, but gives them some optionality on the blue line. And I love what I saw from the Olinstein playing with Peraiko, particularly last year. So it's an ascending team. The issue for them, though, is they're in the central division where you not only have the three teams up top and we'll see what the stars ultimately look like, but I'd still expect them to be good. And then the mammoth ascending. And so it's a pretty brutal gauntlet. They're going to have to run through. But I do think how they've sort of reoriented here on the fly of the past year or two in getting a bunch of guys who are either young or entering their prime and then being very cost efficient where they still have a bunch of caps based to work with is at least exciting. And especially compared to where they were at a couple years ago where it seemed like they were headed towards needing one of these full, exhausting, five plus year tear downs. They've kind of avoided that for now. And so I do think there's a lot to build on. Yeah, I think they're building towards being A good team. I think there is a valid question about what is the ceiling of what they're building towards because like you said, I mean, Robert Thomas were both huge fans of Philip Broberg. You know, they're building a good infrastructure around them. The question is just, you know, not only in the cognitive division, but just generally in the league where you want to have as much high in town as possible. Are they going to be able to accumulate that talent in the next couple of years, given how competently they've put together this very solid, you know, mid 20s type core. But yeah, I mean, Tavish, I think the other place that I was interested for with him would have been Ottawa once Brady could just got traded just because I think you could have justified, you know, he kind of has obviously Brady could check as a much, much better player, but they do have some similar weaknesses and similar strengths. And it would have been interesting to see them just kind of slot him in on the on the contract development plan and basically put him in that exact role and see what happens. But like you said, I think at the very least St. Louis of teams like Montreal and the Rangers that were being rumored for him is one of the least likely to try to force him into that center role where I don't think he's going to be able to play. So I'm, you know, maybe on a new team where he doesn't have the pressure of being kind of the third overall pick and one of the headliners of an up and coming core. He can just simplify his game, become a contributor and, you know, I feel like with this kind of player, you never really see the foot speed improve. I wouldn't expect that, but at least if he can kind of find himself a niche, you know, in their middle six and be a solid player who plays in that front on the power play and occasionally makes a release like pass or shot that. He kind of wish he could be something more, you know, like we said, rising cap environment $7 million is a lot of money, but it's not what he used to be so if he can at least be a solid middle six player, then that's probably OK. We'll talk more about this on this on the Sunday show when we get into the actual draft stuff, but I do love that the ducks turned around and use the pick they got on them at least the first first rounder on a guy would just say now, Rageus. Mixed a pop high school plays and like holding on the puck and dangling and just being so on brand in terms of some of the young forwards they have, but we'll get more into clip of on Sunday, Jack, let's take our break here and then we come back. We're going to jump right back into it and work through some of the other most notable moves we saw this weekend. You're listening to the hockey PDO cast streaming on the sports radio network. All right, we're back in our life reaction to the Adam, it's trim, massive over the trade. Oh, wow. You know what, I think we can skip that one. OK, I do like it's from but we can skip through it. OK, I'll leave us back in. Yeah. All right, we're back in the hockey PDO cast, remember Jack Fraser. Jack, I want to talk Sabers a little bit. Obviously they did a lot of their heavy lifting with the biome trade earlier in the week and we broke that down on the Patreon feed with Harmon dial. So you could check out a longer conversation on that, but I do want to kind of just stake stock of the totality of their work here, which I imagine you share the same feelings of being impressed with what they pulled off here, essentially sending out a lot of their biome greenway talks rights and Anton Walberg, a prospect, they took 39, though, overall a couple of years ago into fourth overall and they took the accident Rudolph will talk more about that on Sunday. Oh, and Zellweger, Louis Crevier, San Jose, third and 27 David camps rights and then used the cap space they have to lock in Zach Benz and at a great number for seven years moving forward as well. I want to talk with Zellweger in particular because I'm a big fan of the player. I really like the bet, especially as a one for one kind of stylistic replacement for what they lost in the biome trade and for a fraction of the price at that. And an interesting component of it to me is I imagine they'll probably go shorter term on them because he's an RFA looking for a new deal and bridge him just considering the long term investments they've already made at the position with how much they're paying their top three. But then also the draft capital they've spent on Mertka and now Rudolph most recently, but I love the idea of him signing a long term deal that AFP analytics hasn't projected for which is like in the 6.25 to 6.5 range because it would essentially just perfectly fit in as what they were paying biome previously, but long term and provide them with a ton of costs or any there with those stylistic similarities. I'm very curious to see what he looks like in Buffalo. I think there's a lot of very encouraging stuff that he showed in his limited time in an aheim that's going to lend itself very well to this and it could be an unbelievable fit where he realizes all that potential that had a so excited about him and just replicates at least some close approximation of what they got from biome last season. Yeah, very clever series of moves I think just to paper over the gap that was left by biome where you know I think there was some valid disagreement of the extent to which you know biome was a real driver for them even considering you know the amount of minutes he was playing his productiveness. You know I think there was a good reason that they weren't necessarily ready to give him the contract and the role that he wanted you know is all we're I think ultimately they will go to bridge just because you know with the young player like that who's kind of only played you know relatively small role. You do kind of want to see how he'll adapt to a new environment but I like you was impressed by the steps that he took last year I think he addressed a lot of the weaknesses that were kind of in his game to start I still don't think that he's a great defensive player and there's a good chance that he never will be you know he's a smaller player he's always been relatively physically weak and has some issues with that. And you know like biome like them it's like a lot of these types of activating jumping up in the play players he does tend to find himself you know oftentimes in the wrong area code on these counter attacking chances but the Buffalo Sabers especially the way that they played last year under Lindy rough just do such a good job of insulating the D and allowing them to make those activations without really paying the price for them like the structure around them is so strong and the forwards come back so we're so strong. And so I think that the opportunity to really kind of take off and see what he's capable of and it could be an excellent fit you know this was a player who I think early on in the NHL had a bit of that kind of tunnel vision issue where he would just not pass the puck like he would just the puck would get him in the defensive zone and he wouldn't really read the ice very well he didn't see his options he would just kind of carry it into end and then run out of road which is not a type of defenseman. That you know I'm a particular fan of and last year I think he really improved it kind of taking his time with the puck becoming more patient process and things a lot faster and you know becoming a much stronger breakout pastor using his teammates better in transition while not sacrificing his foot speed I mean you know if you look at the NHL edge data in terms of how quick he was playing and how fast he was skating down the ice there really was nobody who was playing at the pace. That he was last year you know in some metrics and others he was rivaling guys like Schaeffer and McCarr so we know the foot speed is not an issue here and I think the Sabers will give him a ton of runway to really see what he's capable of with the puck and it really wouldn't surprise me if he ends up being a by-room quality player for them in the next couple years and the price thing was a lot cheaper and allowed them to collect the fourth overall pick in the process without giving up a lot of draft capital to the ducks who it really seemed like we're just never going to find a way to make him work given the players that they already had on the left side in their system. Well you can find this on your website hockey stats calm but you charted it very nicely for everyone to see to that point about the skating 20 plus mile per hour first last year on a permanent basis amongst all defenders number one shaper number two Zowegger number three Sanders and number four McCarr and his numbers last year I know he was essentially being used as a third pair guy but look even better if you strip out the hundred and fifteen or so minutes he played with Drew Ellison who has become a punching bag for us here on the PDO cast and bumps up to like a 53% expected goal share in all his minutes away from them and to your point the sort of team building style that the sabers adopted where they just left their defense and run free and kind of create the offensive environment and then their forwards really complimented nicely with doing the dirty work and extending possession and covering for them defensively is going to lend itself nicely to getting the most. And that is a little bigger I want to talk about the fallout a little bit for the sabers here from all this maneuvering they did you know the long term incentive is is very clear they get younger they get cheaper they get more malleable they kind of double down on an existing strength they avoid some landmines and they accrue those additional assets in the process I do think people are going to say you know at least on paper losing the truck and buy them while they would have been bad bets long term especially the prices they're going to command and talk already did they were clearly valuable contributors of the way they played in the success they had last year and so losing them as you're entering this competitive window and replacing it with either unknowns or you know players who are less proven is concerning I think my push back to that would be one potential way to compensate for it is just continued internal improvement from young players getting better particularly guys like Benson Dode in power and then the other having osland and and Koolie Kool, they really didn't have either of in that playoff run available and healthy is going to go a long way and just kind of create more opportunities for them to blossom. I do think that with some of these assets in the cap space they have now, they still need to figure out Zellweger and Crab's next deals, but they're going to have room to add another forward, most likely. And I'm curious to see what they do with that. I might be inclined to say that I'm less concerned about replacing Tux Roll on the wing, because I think they have guys who could fill that for cheaper. In more of a what the plan is long term down the middle. One option is just constant hell and who's being as awesome as he looked in a small sample, but I do think I had this point preferred Tash Thompson on the wing and I don't really trust Josh Norris to play 20 plus playoff games for you at a top six level if you're trying to win a cup. And so I think it remains to be seen what they do there. But at least now I think they much more cleanly have the means to kind of address that and do so in a really important way. Yeah, I mean, remember two that last offseason that a lot of people were also looking at Buffalo savers and saying, well, they just got worse. Why do these models have them making the playoffs? Why would anybody think this seems being the playoffs? They're going to get 82 points. They lost Petrka, they all this stuff. And then because of those internal improvements as well as the really essential work they did last year and essentially kind of trimming the fat from the roster and improving pretty much from the bottom up and getting rid of the kind of weak links that were holding the back. I'm not implying for a second that tuck in Byron or weak links or anything, but I think that there is kind of smaller work this team can do to get themselves at least level to where they were last season without necessarily having to make massive blockbuster moves. Now obviously they have been involved in rumors on guys like Connor Halibuk and Vincent Trocheck and it does increasingly look like because of the success they have last season, Buffalo might actually not be on as many no trade lists as they used to be, which would obviously dramatically improve the flexibility. But like you mentioned, it really seems like kind of a big hole in this roster right now at least until Helleness has proved that he can be a number one center which would be nice but may never be the case. That's obviously the most difficult thing to add and it may not necessarily be something especially if a guy like Dill and Larkin isn't in their possibilities to add. I think that this team because of just how deep they are in terms of up and coming players and they already have a very robust four-group, they might be well served to just kind of ride this one out, see how Zellweiger works, see how all these younger players fit in and then maybe be able to make a decision further down the line rather than maybe rushing into something that they might regret. For example, I know that there were rumors going around that maybe one of those first drum picks yesterday might have been on the board to make a move for Trochech, for example. Trochech I think would probably look a little better on this Buffalo team than he did the past couple of years in New York. I think it might make more sense for them considering the asset base that they have to hold tight until kind of the perfect move comes out. I still think that this team looks like a pretty comfortable playoff team just looking at the roster right now based on the moves that they've made even considering the fact that they have shed tuck and bire. Oh, undoubtedly. I like the ability they have to consolidate some of these assets and really swing big when the opportunity presents itself and I think timing that out and identifying the right player is going to be huge for them moving forward. I guess the last actual trade that we saw I didn't necessarily come on Friday or during draft weekend but I haven't had a chance to discuss it much here on the show was the capitals going out and acquiring during the query earlier in the week and then sign in trade acquiring Alex talk and signing in. I don't think we need to spend a lot of time relitigating the concerns about talking the red flags and whether that was advisable investment to make it in. I do think what's interesting about the caps though beyond the fact that they all of a sudden I think of a very interesting forward group that just loaded with size speed and scale is they very clearly identified one of their weaknesses last year beyond a miserable power play was the team speed element and how on threatening they were on the rush off the rush for the most part. I think they were a bottom 10 lead team in terms of rush chances generated and they add two guys in Cairo and talk and even if talks ability there has been diminishing still going to clearly improve that is interesting and I'm curious for your take on kind of the direction they chose to go here and how they use this abundance of cap space they have and they still have a bunch of room to work with while we're waiting on clarity on whether Obedchkin is going to be back and whether that's going to take up a chunk of it. Yeah I mean they 100% improved and they improved in an area that they really needed to. I'm a huge fan of I mean I was going to be a pretty big fan of any team acquiring Cairo. I've always been very hot on that player and he's coming off it down you're obviously but previously like his record was just so good in terms of just that quick strike offensive ability you know kind of a leveled up version of the jerk I guess. You know with Tuck I think that does introduce some more complex questions about what this team's plan in terms of contention is really going to look like just because I think most of us acknowledge the Tuck contract is probably going to be okay in the early years but there's kind of concerning signs for the downturn. Now obviously a good amount of that is going to be absorbed by the rising cap but I would imagine that the true contenders are going to be capped out in a couple of years and so it's not as easy as just brushing away the idea of overpayments and dead cap space. I think honestly like they're basically setting the table as well as you could really hope for in the hopes that these guys that they've drafted you know who have been undervalued like like Rode Ash like Hudson like Ryan Leonard you know if those are star caliber players then this team is really set up around them with this kind of two tier core where kind of as they come up and reach their prime you know you still have these players like Kairu and Wilson and Du Boa and Ström and you know Matt Roy Jacob Chikren who are going to be you know still relatively in their primes but if you know that that core of young players doesn't quite reach the level that they need them to of being real stand out star level players then you know I think you're going to start looking at these this older core of players who are somewhat expensive who are starting to enter their thirties you know that might pose some problems in terms of what ceiling this team can reach so I think if you're operating under the premise that Hudson and you know the younger pro-dass and Leonard are going to be star players then I think that this team will be very well set up to content for the next couple years if they don't reach that then I think that it arises some problems but they were going to be in trouble anyway so you know you might as well put yourself in as good a position as possible and maximize those years yeah I think they'll be fun to watch I think adding players especially with these skill sets and now all the option out of the way they have given that to Spencer Carberry who I think very highly of as a coach is going to be interesting and I'm curious to see if they're able to sort of merge these two timelines of some of those y'all sending players that are still cheap that you mentioned to go along with some of these guys they've invested in who are still playing at least somewhat close to their max capacity and trying to kind of fit that timeline in nicely let's close out today's show by talking about some of the things we're looking ahead to and some of the big name players who at least have haven't moved at least at the time of this recording and it's always kind of precarious talking about this stuff because anything could happen at any minute although I imagine at this point especially with the allure of topics in 26 removed off the board we might be moving closer to waiting till post July 1 when some signing bonuses are paid and there's more flexibility for teams to facilitate deals but I do want to talk about the blue jackets Jason Robertson Connor hella buck a couple of the other names that have been in the in the room or bill but have been moved yet and I'll give you your pick of where you want to start out of that list. Well the Jason Robertson one is interesting is interesting just because it really seems like he's picking his destination even more specifically than we might have thought I mean people have been coming up with trace to send Jason Robertson to basically every single team in the NHL and it seems like the idea that oh like as long as the team is willing to pay him $15 million he'll go there you know I think that that's been suddenly very deflated it seems pretty clear but he wants to be in Dallas and then he's it's going to take a really good situation to get him outside of there. You know I've been you know theorizing for like a month about the idea that Jason Robertson Dylan Larkin swat which may happen in the in the form of futures or something like that in a three-to-way trade but I mean I still think really highly of the player and and you know the idea of adding him to a team I know like we talked about Utah earlier on the idea of kind of adding him to a team that could use that scoring punch and his has the cap flexibility that Dallas doesn't is really enticing and I mean just given how to I know this process is. been in how reluctant Dallas seems to be to really invest in as, you know, their franchise player, which I think he pretty clearly is at the fore position. You know, I really at this point wouldn't so much mine seeing him go somewhere else, you know, especially if it's a already contending team that can slot him in really nicely and put the pieces around him that you really need to maximize Jason Robertson. I really have to admit, I don't understand the skepticism on their part and, you know, he certainly leveled up in the meantime, but you could trace this all the way back to going the four-year bridge route in 2022, I believe, and that's why this has become an issue now. And, you know, they're certainly up against the cap wise at least for this one season. I think there's ways around it or ways to make it work in terms of some tracking guys off the margins who aren't essential and would probably hurt their, their depth and ability to maybe win a cup or at least compete for one in the central for one season, but would still benefit them in the long run because they'd retain Roberts in a player who's in his prime is maybe 27. He's been a top 10 producer for the past however many years and honestly, the skill set in my opinion is pretty unimpeachable. I think what partly partly why we've been kind of fantasy booking him for all these different spots is because he'd be a fit pretty much anywhere, right? Like, you know, there's certainly drawbacks with the skating speed, but it just has been a non-issue in his NHL career and his ways to craftily work around it and still connect plays and he's so good in so many different ways that it's really tough to envision a scenario where even if they replace it with a larkin or, you know, how previously rumored if they'd made that crack and trade pivoting and bringing in a Matthew Nies and just having more guys available at their disposal and a relatively thin forward group, it's still tough to foresee how they're going to come out ahead here and, you know, extend this cup contention window while all these players are in their prime that they have a top-the-line up. And so I find it kind of confounding, I guess, and maybe it's as simple as sort of they've sort of picked their stance and the relationship is deteriorated. Yet it still seems like Robertson ultimately wants to stand down as he just wants to be paid at 14 plus million or whatever and be their highest paid player during this spot where you can catch in and go eight years with them. So I'm not sure honestly why this is still an issue, but it is and I'm very curious to see how it plays out. Yep, 100 percent, but, you know, like you said, like, your tell us is willing to appreciate him like that, then I think it would make sense to move them and I mean, yeah, there's just endless teams that make sense as a target and it would be exciting. I would like trades to happen, please. Well, with this especially frustrating for the stars, I mentioned how it sounded like kind of a one-year issue for them, like really as soon as next summer when say against money comes off the books and the cap goes up once again, like they're going to have 20 plus million in capsoons to work with. And so really it comes down to kind of white knuckling it and stripping off spare parts for one year and maybe taking that loss, but benefiting from it in the long run, I've been asking people about this and got mixed returns depending on who I talk to. I think a fascinating way to kind of satisfy both sides would be to just play out this year, like go the qualifying offer and then arbitration route and then extend for seven years as soon as they're eligible in January. Some of the pushback I've gotten is obviously the injury risk for the player and the uncertainty there as opposed to just getting to eight years now, but also from like a PA perspective and a league perspective, whether that would be looked at as circumvention or something that kind of goes against the spirit of the rule, but they could really afford to just if they got them in at like whatever nine and a half were wound up being for this one year, go even as high as the Capriza money moving forward and as long as it kicks in the following season, he still winds up making more money in the long run and they wind up retaining him, but it doesn't seem like we're going to go in that direction. Well, and the question is, you know, do they value him at the Capriza money? Like is this just a cap space issue or is this a situation where the team doesn't quite rate the player at the level that the player rates himself and as you know, we personally, and I guess the Seattle crack and would rate him, like do they think that it's unreasonable to pay him $16 million for seven years next summer? Well, I think they're spooked by how that Brawon series against Minnesota looked where they objectively looked very slow. Yeah, he was by far the best player and it wasn't an issue for him. So it's kind of ironic in that way. You got any notes on on hella book beyond him being a goalie because he also didn't wind up being moved and it seemed like there was a lot of steam connecting with the Sabers. You mentioned how the Sabers success last year has led to players being more I guess open to to go in there via trade with trade protections and it seems like you could include him in that list and I was curious to see whether they would use that fourth overall pick they got from Byram to facilitate it and I think that would have been very interesting for them but also a big win for Winnipeg just getting like a legitimate premium asset in return for a 33 year old goalie which is such a rare trade and such a difficult position to be in for a team trying to recoup value in terms of what he's actually worth to you. Now that that is off the board at least for the time being I guess I'm curious to see kind of where this goes and whether Buffalo revisits it we know Caroline has been linked I think New Jersey would be interesting there's countless stops that I imagine would still be interested but Winnipeg is going to need at least something in return to kind of make it worth their while. Yeah I mean I was so sure that they were going to he was going to end up in Florida like for the past like month I was dead sure that that ninth overall pick was going to go to and you know and and Samus Gavitcher whoever they got for Samus Gavitch and once the Samus Gavitcher was made I thought okay now we're leading up like now tonight Connor Albuquer will be traded to Florida and of course it was Brady Kachak instead which completely set that you know compolting down because now you know there's rumors that Florida might still be his preferred destination and you know just you know Florida still wants him but Florida just doesn't have any assets available essentially. I mean Florida was just such an obvious one that it's kind of shaking me to even be coming up with the other ones like Buffalo obviously was one that that made a lot of sense. I think now that the draft has passed Winnipeg is probably just going to be best served by you know not rushing anything like it would be one thing if Winnipeg could have left this draft with the fourth overall pick in the eighth overall pick or the eighth overall pick in the ninth overall pick and really kind of started it off this new you know this new generation of young Jets players you know all in one go and kind of started fresh but now I feel I feel like this is kind of a process where you know if like unlike a lot of these other trade requests I think that it's been kept much closer to the best what hella bucks parvinces are you know obviously he would be leading this process because the clause in his contract but you know we haven't heard oh yeah he's just demanding that he only wants to go to Vegas and Florida you know like with certain players like there's more flexibility potentially and I think Winnipeg this is a trade that they really need to get right and I don't think it's one of the necessarily need to rush into so now that the draft is over I feel like unless an offer comes their way that we're really blows them away and really allows them to kind of reset here and set on the new era I think this is something that you know teams always want to golly there might be teams in the regular season that really want to golly that may have more flexibility during the regular season than we've seen recently you know that might be a trade that they're able to make especially if their season starts to go south next year because you know they still have shyfully they still have more see they still have Connor you know they're still at least you know nominally posed poised to try to continue to compete so I don't see any reason for them to kind of force a trade out you know just Willie Nilly especially considering what an important player he is and you know how desperate goalies or teams often are to add goal tending and the pedigree that he has so now that the draft is over I think you know Winnipeg completed it more patient on this hellbuck really starts making noise out in public you can also add now they have Vigil Bjork to the list baby um yeah the Florida one I mean listen they literally do not have an NHL goalie on their roster right now under contract and hellbuck is great and I'm sure he'd figure it out and have fun doing so I don't know from a fit perspective putting him in a spot where he's just gonna the only shots he's gonna face are gonna be breakaways essentially is putting him in a position to succeed um but we'll still see what comes of that I think the best argument for me from a jets perspective for doing it anyways and even if you take a loss from a value perspective is if it signals a dramatic change in approach for them organizationally where it kind of forces them or pushes them into really properly rebuilding and kind of tearing this thing down and if they did so they could really serve as kind of like a skeleton key for this offseason because they have so many guys who would obviously be desirable even beyond the the stars you mentioned there I mean Dylan Sanberg for the pricey cost for two years would be incredibly appealing as a trade asset and I'm sure they could make a lot happen but it doesn't seem like they're that inclined to do so and the idea of trading hell a buck for whatever they get and kind of just trying to otherwise plow ahead with their rosters probably the least appealing option as an outcome here for me so we'll see how it plays out um do you have any notes on the reported hurricanes offer which seemed like it was Nikita and a first because I from a just perspective I wouldn't be Particularly interested in that I think the proposition of paying the kitchen Eight plus million moving forward or whatever Would give me pause especially after the post season you had I know There's extend your circumstances where he was essentially a year one player playing in North America Even in the playoffs he took that nasty hit to the head and missed a couple games and it could explain some of his performance yet It seems pretty clear that the hurricanes are skeptical and I think generally betting against the hurricanes when it comes to their evaluation of defensemen is a scary proposition and I think they're right in their stance where if you you know I always talk about how the way coaches use players is Far more indicative of how they really feel about them than anything they might say publicly or in the media that's cliche filled and They were using them as their sixth defensemen They were giving him 70 plus percent offensive zone starts and if you look at his opponents They were very actively keeping him and Goss is bear away from anyone who could actually score against them and If you put him in a spot like let's say Winnipeg I think some of the foot speed concerns what he's not getting to play to his strengths Which is constantly being in the offensive zone and then pinching at the blue line would become a Massive issue and so viewing that as kind of this premium asset that you're getting as the the crown jewel of whatever package you get I would probably be staring in a different direction if I were the jets Yeah, I think I mean the most interesting thing about that offer to me was like you said the You know what the light that it kind of shines on the Carolina Hurricane is a valuation of occasion Who obviously had so much hype entering into the season? You know, maybe we were putting a bit too much stock in high production in a very depressed K HL scoring environment Since since the war, but I Totally agree with you like like you know the idea of paying the kitchen that long-term money for a team that I think is as Savvy as the hurricanes and likes to have the flexibility of the hurricanes have I understand why they would be unsure about it and You know, this is a player that I think like you said has a lot of Potential he has a lot of aspects who is game, you know that you'd like to see but Also, I think that full tilt aggressiveness combined with the limitations that he has in skating Have some serious downsides that may not really accord with the way that the hurricanes like to play and Would probably be fairly exposed on Winnipeg as well. So I Think for Winnipeg's sake, it makes sense that that's not a return that they were willing to take I would imagine that they were never really offered the the fourth overall pick or anything really meaningful around the fourth overall Take because I'm sure they would have taken that from Buffalo, but yeah, I think for Winnipeg unfortunately at this point You pretty much have to go for a pure a pure futures trade the thing obviously for the jets. That's a consideration. It's just the You know the the market the realities of the market, you know the the potential downsides of going through a lengthy rebuild in that city Considering some of the issues with attendance and especially kind of corporate ticket sales and things like that But I don't really see much away around it And you don't want to end up in a situation where you end up getting yourself handcuffed by all these players with no move clauses Forces themselves out to different teams and then you end up Low on assets that you've received for them plus with the prospect of a full tarot down lengthy rebuild and out of you So I think it would make sense for them to start exploring these options and maybe getting this process done quicker rather than drawing it out But I understand from their perspective why there has it in to to really pull the trigger and start firing here Okay, no we've gone long, but I want to add one more thing to our dog get here before I let you go I want to talk bluejack. It's a little bit because What on earth is going on here? It seems like the entire league is just kind of seemingly buzzing around them right now And I don't think it helps matters that I'm not sure Don Waddell as their GM is equipped to counteract it because every time he publicly speaks It makes things worse and I always wonder why he just said that But what they've done here is interesting to me where they start the offseason they Signed 34 year old Charlie coil to a six by six and he was great for them last year They trade a second third and a fifth for Valentine Truschkin and I think at face value That's a great deal for them But now they're in a spot where at least for the time being and this is gonna change after the Adam Phantilly extension their fourth for highest paid forwards are 31 year old Truschkin 34 year old coil 30 year old Garland who they acquired at the deadline and then 32 year old Sean Amanahan and It seems like every day now there is just an emerging story At the draft it was Marchenko and him apparently Saying that he wouldn't extend with them or at least at the time now wouldn't consider it then Zach Ransky most recently and he's really been pushed up every insiders trade board And understandably so given the quality of the player and what a difference maker that would make but They have a lot to sort out here and I think probably one of the more interesting situations the league in terms of how the next couple weeks You're gonna play out and what the fallout from this is and what the team looks like heading into next season because this could really go off the rails pretty quickly I think Yeah, like it seems like they've almost been caught unaware of it because like you said they make all these win-now trades not only You know at the deadline, but you know even as of like this past like couple weeks with coil and with nitchiskin You know, but this team this roster only really makes sense if Adam Phantilly is star number one center and his afkorenski is there in states that are You know as soon as you take out the Zach Ransky This whole thing is central criminals. I mean, it's not like this team has had staggering success like they pull out of kind of a four-year Bad rebuild They have two mediocre seasons You know, I didn't really have them particularly highly rated You know next season or in the next couple years, you know, they've had obviously the best of Ransky including a Doris trophy winning season You know, they had Marchenko who I think just kind of came out of nowhere and was a real fine for them You know, I know they have your favorite jet grieves in net, but like I just haven't really been convinced by this team that this was gonna really work out as a proper Cup contender even as they came out of that rebuild and Now they've just kind of set up this entire like house of cars that is entirely contingent on the presence of Zach Oransky to succeed and You know like I mean the timing of where they say well We're gonna meet with them after the draft we're gonna discuss his options after the draft I mean, I'm there were teams that had really high up picks in this draft that I feel like would have You know made very compelling offers for Zach Ransky that it would have been worth exploring Quite a long time ago, you know, I mean San Jose being such an obvious example of it Now I feel like a lot is gonna be kind of on hold around the NHL as Teams wait to find out where he's willing to go to I think that introduces a whole other question like is he gonna be one of these players that only wants to go to a certain number of destinations You know, I mean, I see like Lee stands, you know fan casting like oh what if you know he comes to Toronto and some kind of Matthew Nads to turn or something like that, but Until we know where Zach Ransky's willing to go. I don't think there's really any way that we can seriously speculate on on what this looks like You know what I like Zach Ransky to be a San Jose shark sure does Zach Ransky want to Pay California taxes or whatever it is, you know, god only knows but from a clumsily jack's perspective I mean it really is just kind of the worst case scenario because this is a team that You know fairly or not. I think it's been associated with mediocrity for essentially its entire existence with the exception of you know One playoff series and then a couple kind of fun years where they had a naren and Jones and Ransky on the roster And the idea of them just staring down that barrel yet again You know and yeah, you know, I mean like if if Ransky's gone and they're just building him scratch again Is Adam Fentilly gonna want out like we have to have these conversations again And it just seems like a constant churn with this team where I can understand why they felt the need to go and get Nechishkin and Garland and try to really convince these guys that they're building a winning program Because the clumsily jack's have just never been a winning program and it's it's disappointing to see you don't like to see these hockey mats small markets Really deal with a lack of success like this and and mediocrity But I think the best of position we're about to see them in where they're not really going to be in a position to fully tear things down I don't know how much they're going to be fully bottoming out even if you trade Ransky for futures Um, and it all remains to be seen whether they can even get a fair return for Ransky based on the level of control that he exerts with his with his cost I think the two situations are quite different You know, certainly in terms of caliber players, as much as I love Marchenko because of We're in ski coming off these two unbelievable seasons and what he did last year and being recognized for it As a Norris winner and then the fact that he signed under 10 million for two more years And I do think a lot of the the justification Or kind of the the lens through which they made a lot of these moves you talked about was under the guys of like Well, if we make it back to the playoffs and we show this can work and we're competitive Ransky's go on a stay and I think that is kind of sound from the perspective of without having spoken to him personally Just kind of reading the tea leaves and everything you hear about him like it seems like he wants to is wants to be in Columbus He just wants to also as one of the if not the best defender in the world Play competitive games and have a chance to win to Stanley Cup. And so I do think there's going to be some time to figure it out. And there's not as much urgency. Whereas for Marchenko, he's playing at 3.85 million next year. But then he instantly becomes an arbitration eligible RFA just one year out from UFA and pretty much as soon as the season starts. And we've been talking about this on the show since last summer. As soon as this season starts, you lose all your leverage. So you either need to extend them at this point or try to maximize the return. And the spots for him, we mentioned Utah. I think Buffalo, Montreal has certainly been circling this and the fit would be unbelievable. And in terms of getting the most out of Demidov and giving them another massive weapon in the top six. And I think Marchenko is just an unbelievable player. Like he's such a stud in such an offensive weapon and a bonafide top line driver and is going to be worth the 11 million or whatever he signs for long term. But for Wrensky, it's a bit of a different calculus. And I know you mentioned the sharks there. I think the stars are very interesting here. And it remains to be seen how the Robertson situation plays out. But a package potentially built around Tom as Harley makes a lot of sense to me. Because he's a couple years younger. He's locked in long term at 10.587 with no trade protection until 2027. We've I know he's coming off a rough year, but we saw the year prior. When Hayeskin was out, like he got thrust into that number one defenseman role where he really had the car keys to do everything. And I thought he looked great in that spot. And we'll see if he can kind of regain that form. But I think it's a very viable bet and not as massive of a downgrade for a prime age player. And then you could put together whatever you want on the package, whether it's Maverick Borks rights or picks or however you want to frame it. And honestly, you know, circling back to our conversation about Robertson. If the stars were able to pull that off because of the as trivial as it seems, the $1 million gap or whatever between the two guys. In Wrensky and Harley, they could probably more easily just pay rate Robertson. What do you want? If they did that. And I don't know if they want you ultimately as we talked about, but it provides some interesting scenarios. And then obviously the fit of Wrensky kind of taken on a lot of the offensive responsibilities and really allowing Hayeskin into play to his strengths and not have to do as much as he's had to do the past couple of years. I think that would be a no-brainer fit. So I think there's still a lot to be resolved here, but that would probably be the most interesting spot for me if he were to be moved. Yeah, yeah, no, I mean, that's not really an option that I thought of. I know that I had seen rumors about Wrensky to close possibly. And my first thought was just how that didn't really seem to make sense based on the hand in his balance on the Dallas stars roster. But I do really like the idea of swapping Harley there. And I know Will say for a saying, when as I was about the Blue Jacket, I would feel a little bit better if they were maybe just kind of taking it down great, but moving back in terms of years and getting a player that's more aligned with the age of those young guys. So yeah, I think, you know, this is the summer edition of Traits, we'd like to see. I think that would be a win-win trade for everybody involved. So wouldn't mind that at all. Yeah, I will say while it wouldn't be a downgraded logic is very sound. I guess the question of where it ultimately gets you your Columbus while you have Wrensky in the roster is fair considering they didn't make the playoffs the past two years, but pretty much every bankable thing they had that looked good for them was because he was playing at the level he was and really just kind of generating everything for them. And so I'm not sure where they'd ultimately be without that even if I do think of Harley of Harley as a replacement. All right, buddy. Thank you for indulging me on this very long extended conversation. At the end of draft weekend, I will let you promote some stuff because in particular, leading up to free agency, even if the Calibro players isn't as high. We'll see a bunch of signings and I'm sure our listeners are going to be very curious to familiarize themselves with the players. Their teams just signed and I think your site is the best resource for doing so, so I'll let you talk about that a little bit. Yeah, I appreciate it. Yeah, so hockeystats.com, we have not only player cards, interactive dashboards, we've scouting reports for over 300 NHL players, including almost all the big names available. And we also have our draft page, which I think is live updating as we speak, because we're talking about halfway through the fourth round right now. You can find NHL equivalency prospect cards for every player who got drafted as well as currently drafted prospects and even prospects going back about 15 years or so. So if you're curious about that as well. But and then obviously keep an eye on Jay Freshhockey on Twitter, just I'll be posting about every trade and signing that happened for the next little bit, spending my Canada day next to a barbecue with my laptop out. Unfortunately, it's has become a yearly tradition, but you know, these are the things we suffer through to bring hockey content to the good people during the summer. A lot of Ryan Shay breakdowns ahead of player you're very familiar with. All right, this is a lot of fun. Give us a five star review. Wherever you listen, subscribe to the PDO cast Patreon as well. Have had a bunch of shows the past two weeks doing offseason blueprints for various teams. We're going to keep that going and then various trade breakdowns as well. So join us there if you want more content. We'll be back on Sunday, as I said, to talk more about the draft and get into the details of what went down on Friday and Saturday. That is all from us for today. Thank you for listening and subscribing to the hockey PDO cast.