The price tag you can put on that skill set is insane. This project that we've charged 100 grand for, and it's done like five days. This is our one shot output. Yeah, oh my gosh. Did you even ask it to do that? No, no, no, I didn't ask it to any of this stuff. We just figured it out. My prompt was like tiny. Two sentences. How long would the next site take to just copy and paste it? If I click right click, duplicate, 10 seconds, you're done. That's it. Just with a lazy approach, you're out doing Reddit. TripAdvisor with a wing stops owned grand zero dollars per advertising, cost basically nothing to build. This is all the pages of ranking number one for you. People don't realize that sites like TripAdvisor and Yelp have millions of pages that took billions of dollars of software engineering and a decade of grinding. It can be done for 99% less and 99% faster today. All right, guys, this episode is as tactical as you get. And to those listening on audio, there's a big chunk of this that's very visual, but we made a special edit of the audio version and left in all the meat you don't need to see. So don't go to a different podcast. You're still going to love this. And if you're on Spotify, watch the video version because we put the visual stuff in there. Or if you don't have a video podcast, just go to my YouTube and watch the whole thing there. In this episode, we go from idea to vibe coding, tools, shortcuts, growth hacks, how to copy, paste these websites, how to find the design tools if you're not a good designer. It's all in here. Please enjoy. Page you turning the book, it just captivates you, man. Like my excitement couldn't be any greater. And then a few weeks later, it's even greater than that. It's just like a gift that keeps on giving. And I haven't literally in 15 years of the building things that I've never experienced a feeling like this as an entrepreneur. And I just be able to be creative, have ideas. To have the tools you're disposal to be able to execute is just so fascinating and satisfying as well at the same time. It is. So tell me about your directories and what made you want to start building those in the first place. Sure. For those listening, we'll describe everything that he's showing. Absolutely. Yeah. So the directory idea, really, I used to build projects very early on, my space layouts. Then your dream reviews of the world and Figma to convert into HTML the whole nine yards. And so I started just sort of build some sites out. And then I came across AI. And what became really interesting with AI was the fact that you can create these programmatic SEO pages. And what we mean by programmatic is effectively, if you think about a directory like TripAdvisor, every single URL, there's thousands of URL. So you have TripAdvisor.com for every slash city. Then inside the city, you've got towns. And in towns, you've got restaurants and bars and clubs. So whatever you've got, it can go on forever. And no one is sitting there manually adding all these pages. Programmatic means that they're kind of just created automatically just on the flight. And so AI enabled that to be very accessible for me at least, where I could just say to myself, OK, well, if I can just create content, and the content can also be generated by AI, then technically, I don't have to spend all that time creating all this type of content. I could just create thousands of web pages, send them into Google, and then get them to rank well. And so originally, I did this with a recipe site, goutchaf.com. OK. So I just built the app. We released the app, $20,000 real quick, unpaid downloads, paid, freemium. Yeah, it was freemium. So we probably made, I think it was $8,000 or something, maybe in the first week. It was like recurring revenue as well. So it was insane. I just got obsessed with programmatic SEO because of AI and goutchaf.com was born. So this site now ranks number one, just globally for keywords. So if you just go to like-- if I go to like an incognito tab, and I let's say I type in Wagamama, Crispy Chili Mushrooms recipe, you'll see goutchaf is like number one right here, organic, above like Pinterest, Instagram, all these videos, Reddit, like we're right here. And you open that up. It takes you to a site, and you get to see the actual recipe and the directions. And all this content was just generated through AI effectively. So the restaurants, the dishes, you can see, there's a restaurant, you open up a restaurant, then you have the restaurant and the restaurant name. And so basically, this is where SEO kicks in. Life people search for you can recipes. It will come up with this page. And so for me, it was a simple idea, which was there's no way to find recipes inspired by the restaurants you love. You have some websites like that, but there are normally people that have cooked recipes at home in the first time. Yeah, they're not aggregate. There's not one website dedicated to that. Is that why it's called guilty chef? Because it's unhealthy restaurant recipes. Most of the-- That's a good question. Guilty chef, I can't remember where the name came from. I think-- You probably just were looking for good domain names. And you were looking for-- No, no, no, no, no. That's the crazy thing about the SEO-- that this has been the best performing SEO site of the two-darex, I'm going to show you. And the domain is nothing to do with it. And that's what's wild. It's like people always think that you need a good-- my next director I show you is all about the domain name. But this one, it doesn't matter about the domain name. So especially for starting a directory, don't go crazy about the domain name, because it can just rank well so long as your content is structured, just using the basic things that you need. And when I say basic things, those are things like creating content, linking between the pages of your content, using schema. So this is schema.org. It's like something that a lot of people don't know about. But if you look at schema here, there's different types of schema you can have. And what schema is, it's a series of properties that Google looks for on a web page to see if there's information about that. So for restaurants, it might look for opening hours, or it might look for price range or payment methods. And that determines the more boxes you check, like the higher likelihood you are of ranking. Right. And so if you think about before AI, you'd have to-- first of all, have a SEO strategist or someone who'd be like, this is what you need to do. Then you'd have to figure out, OK, well, which of these do I use? Then you have to go and create the content. And then you've got to have someone design the pages and develop them. So that's like a team of four or five people already. And so now with cursor and Claude code, I just go straight into it. And I just say, hey, create me a category for restaurants and just make it a possible with schema and include all the relevant properties I need. And it will just do it in seconds. And so that was like, if you take that method and you multiply it by 100 or 1,000, you start to get all of these pages of content. And even the content is generated by AI. And that's the other thing is that people think that AI generated content can't rank in Google. They absolutely can. And in fact, this also ranks in LLM models as well. So chat GPT and Claude will also pick up these recipes if someone types in a certain recipe that have on my site. And use the sources. You'll come up with my content before some other recipe site. Yeah. People need to understand. People are asking questions on Google and Google is in the business of giving them answers. So if Google does not have enough answers to pull from and some of the best ones or some of the only ones are AI generated, it's going to show them. Absolutely. Absolutely. I think there's too much opinion around whether sites rank or not or SEO work. But I think there's no better thing than seeing an action. So I'm sure for your soft Chris and even like myself, I like facts. And I feel like as a builder, I want to just see it for myself. Because there's plenty of opinion out there. And so building a directory, this was a way of me saying, OK, well, can it actually work? It's like all the things I'm building and doing, all the iterations are just like me kind of poking at a curiosity I have. But also because I can now tap into AI, I can execute it so quickly that I can actually get a factual answer quicker than me scrolling through X looking at opinions. You know what I mean? Yeah. So this is an example of like the SEO. So the orange is organic growth. So this means that the zero paid traffic. So I'm spending $0 on marketing on the site. So this is giltysheft.com that you're showing me. Travel. Yeah, that's right. So giltysheft.com here. What's the date we're looking at? Like August 2024 is when it starts ticking up? Yeah. Yeah. So yeah. So this was like, I kind of like rebuild the site around June. And so the Google start picking up, you know, probably around August. And then look, we're just getting like 500, 600, 800,000. And then I don't know what this huge spike was here, by the way. I've no idea. I've never figured that out. But those are the easy spike. I think that most interesting part of this chart is the very middle between March and August 2024. You're adding pages, pages, pages, pages. And not getting any feedback from Google. Like nothing is showing you that it's working, but you're just persisting, persisting, persisting, all of a sudden in August. Oh, sign of life, you know, September. Ooh. And then it's literally, literally, only up into the right ever since. But like that's why SEO is so important is because you need to be willing to be patient, play the long game. And it's not like it's costing you anything. Like 50 bucks a month for certain tools, a little bit of your time. Other than that, like if you can be patient, now you're at how many visits organically per month? It's almost 11,000 now. Jesus. Yeah. And by the way, there's a page site to the site as well. So people can also go in here and just like subscribe and generate their own recipes as well. So there's only 160 pages on this site. Yeah, yeah, there's not much at all on this site. Well, imagine if you had 16,000. You know what? Again, it's my fault because I just get like, I ran this as almost like experiment. And it like performed better than I expected. And I was like, OK, I've got to like-- I've done the same thing. Yeah, so you can see here, by the way, like, you know, By the way, AHRF's just as a tool is a great tool.
great tool to get. You can get a free account on there. And you can just do keyword research. You can go on keyword research up here, keyword explorer. And so if you're just want to start a direct renacer and niche like, you could just type in, I don't know. Let's just say recipes. Let's do something more niche. Let's say toddler recipes. And you can search by different regions, but let's say, US, it will show you what the search volume and trends look like over a given period of time. And also what you want to look at here is how easy is that keyword to rank for which means that, OK, well, this is kind of a broad keyword, which is pretty good. So if you can find the.com, which actually I own, toddlerrecipes.com as well. OK, good for you. Yeah, but I haven't done anything with it yet. So nothing, nothing is just a year. But you can just see there's so many recipes. And why I found this interesting is because there was all of these other long tail keywords. So like, you can have toddler recipes. Muffer recipe. So you're seeing now look at the volume. You're getting 900 searches per month, 600 searches per month. And if you can come up number one, they'll aggregate into like a decent audience. I really say where this funnel becomes interesting. And I haven't even taken it to this level yet with my site. It's like traffic is one thing, but like email capture, Google Pixel, the matter of retargeting that's possible, even being able to, I could go into the ingredients side of my web page and then have brands bidding, or people are Walmart bidding for spots. So people click on pepper and it connected Walmart site for you to buy it. So when you start building in traffic, you hold the leverage. And I think that's the interesting strategic part of the stuff business that I like is that the traffic is yours. And so it speaks for itself. And so you can really trade against that, it becomes a currency. And it can easily let you, even if it starts off being $500, $600 a month, man, that's great. And then you can start growing up more and more and more and start to become something meaningful. So do you said you're also monetizing this? Do you have a paid section of the site? How is that? Yeah, there's a paid section, but it's nothing crazy right now, because we're not really pushing people towards it, but you can go on here and you can just build your own recipes, basically, and pay a hundred and a half. It's just a wrapper. Yeah, so it's just like, it's just anthropic running in the background, just basically running the recipe and just creating the recipe for you. So I can already see some bugs on it, because I haven't been on it in a few months. But that's basically what it is. Do you have ads on the site or is it monetizing in any way or is it, you just let it roll? No, no ads right now. So it's probably revenue wise. I think it's probably, probably just doing, maybe, like, $7, $800 a month, something like that. Like, it's nothing crazy. But it's still like, you know, it's just something called as comes in for some organic traffic. So yeah, it's just like people who have, and a lot of people, it's funny, because a lot of the customers are those that have, like, signed up at peak times, like, maybe around, you know, holiday season, they're trying to look for recipes and they're paid like five bucks or something to join the site, and the memberships are just running, and they might not even be that active, but, you know, they're just in there. And, you know, that's the other interesting about these type of businesses is that, you know, if you create products that can get high volumes of traffic by very, you know, low increments of revenue, people are willing to pay because they're just there, and you're likely to capture them. And also, if you start to increase your traffic, and you get those people coming in, those five dollars start adding up, and, you know, can become something meaningful. Yeah. And now, what tools did you use to build this site? This was built in Webflow, but all of the sort of the AI components of it were built using cursor. And so that cursor, I think, can feel very daunting to people. So, like, what are you open here? You know, people can feel like, this is like, you know, just for programmers. And even I felt that way. And then when actually went into it, really, it's just like, think of it like an IMS-age, almost, you know, if you could just talk, you can create. And actually, you're power-lizing those that are creative and can express their ideas, as opposed to those that are like technical. Like, you don't have to be technical at all. And that's why I've set up, you know, I've got the School Community 5-Day Sprint. I've also got 5daysprint.com where you can go on here and just set up your project, and it will just give you, like, a one-line string. Like, if you set your project up there, like this, and you can just hit copy here, and you can go into, just open up cursor, hit paste, right here, and hit enter. And this one line will set up your entire project for you. And so all you then have to go is do is go in there, just iterate the features that you want, but like the context of your project is all in there. And that's how I feel like we should be building, because there's so many interesting things that you can do with these projects, but you need to scaffolding, right? And so guilty chef is like, think of that as a scaffold, which I was able to then use myself to build BestDrewBuy.com. So if you look, the sites are identical in terms of how they look, right? Look like even as such, literally, doesn't even move. - Both on webflow. - These are both like visuals or building webflow, and but all the functions and functionality were like through cursor. - Okay. - And I just connected them into webflow, yeah. - So you live in Dubai, what gave you the idea to start this, just like, do you see a different site that was similar that? - Guilty chef started working, so I'll be interested to see what the AHRFs data shows us, but Guilty Chef started to work. And when it started to work, I had already been in, so I moved to Dubai around the time I was building it actually. So I literally moved to Dubai here, right? And I started to build the project, and I started to see results around here. And then I was like, holding a second, like, this is interesting. This hadn't even started fully growing yet, but just some results around that time, I'd been in Dubai long enough to know that, okay, I'm always looking for places to eat, place to visit. There's not actually any great directory. And if you go to Dubai's actual tourism site, it doesn't have, it's very, the directory is very basic, right? - Yeah. - And it's very bloggy. It's not really immersive. And so I thought, okay, that's interesting. And so then I thought to myself, I started brainstorming, and I started to brainstorm loads of words, but I didn't brainstorm best Dubai. It was like best restaurants Dubai, or best things in Dubai, things like that, 'cause I never thought the domain would be available. - Yeah. - I mean, from, out of nowhere, I just actually searched bestdubbi.com, and the domain was available for like 900 dollars. - That's the best feeling in the world. When you type it in, - Do you mean you're like, "It's not gonna be available?" I'd know it's not, but I just have to. - And then it is, you like, "You've never clicked by a pastor." Oh yeah, Texassnacks.com, sendeats.com. - Oh, wow. - Well, let's just say, one, sendeats. - Sendeats? Okay. - Like, ship food. - Yeah. - Oh, that's nice. - It was a company that shipped food. - So. - Food. - Sometimes the domain would like, just, just, like, spawn the idea for you. I would just come from some cool domain. - Yeah. - Absolutely. - Absolutely. I am, I own the domain twiceused.com. And like I thought, some look at that, like an Etsy. - Oh my God. - It's just too fun. - For, yeah. - For upcycled stuff, you know? - And so
[email protected] was available, 900 dollars. And then the interesting thing was, I then searched like other domain names, similar for other countries and other towns. Like bestsoudy.com, for example, was $100,000. And so when I saw the price difference, I was like, first of all, this is gonna be like a very powerful domain. - Wow. - And secondly, I can't believe it's available. So like, I didn't talk to no one. As I'm not gonna tell no one, I'm just gonna buy it and once I've got it, then I've got it. And so I bought it, got access. I was like, okay, I still couldn't believe it. And then it was like a mission to be like, okay, well, what can we turn this dot come into? And so with this one, it was focused a bit more on restaurants, hotels, malls, schools. Again, all this content, AI generated. So like, AI's aggregating Google reviews. AI is going and, you know, getting the, you know, giving it a scoring system, you know, picking up amenities and checking times and maps and all this type of content, FAQs. And again, all of that is being connected to schema. So like, you'd have a schema for, you know, local business. And I'll just say to cursor, hey, I've got a local business site. I need schema implemented. Excuse me. And I'll just write the schema. We've started to see some meaningful organic results now. So again, zero dollars per an advertising, cost basically nothing to build. Like when I say nothing, I mean like less than $100 or something. And so if you go to, let's say we tap in one of the keywords of that parker, parkers is like a big restaurant here. Taping like parkers do buy reviews. They were number two below TripAdvisor now. - Wow. - In Google. And so that's, you know, coming up about Facebook, Zomato, Reddit, you know, all these other sites, open table. - Okay, so if someone wanted to start a directory from scratch today, can you just show us like what your first steps would be? How would you start? What tools would you look to? How would you do research, et cetera? - Yeah, sure. So first of all, I think AHRFs is absolutely a great tool to you just to do keyword research, first of all. So I think like going explore keywords, I've been using Behive for about two years, almost as long as they've been around. And I gotta tell you, watching other creators stay stuck on basic newsletter platforms is painful. You're losing thousands of dollars because you don't know what your subscribers are worth. And when a potential sponsors ask, who reads your newsletter? And you say entrepreneurs or moms, you lost the deal. But Behive has a survey feature that's brilliant. You can set up a few questions about demographics and spending habits that you send them through right after they subscribe. So instead of telling sponsors, oh, I have 5,000 subscribers, you can say, I have 3,750 homeowners making over $75,000 a year, who spend $200 plus per month on home improvement. And that's proof that their ideal customers are reading your newsletter. Go extract your email list from whatever platform you're stuck on because it's probably costing you thousands in lost deals. Behive makes migration easy. You can move all your emails in minutes. So you can get paid what you're actually worth. Head to beehive.com/chris for 30% off your first three months. That's beehive.com/chris. You'll thank me later. Now try and find domain names as close as possible to the dot com because I do think that gives you an advantage. And so instant domain search.com is a great tool to use because if I just type, like it, the reason it's called is because it gives you all the different like you are.
else available from one search. So you can see the dot com, like any other ones you like and the green ones are obviously available. And so I love just using this site, find domains. Once you go domain and you've got the key, so spend some time on keyword research, like really try and see what are the interesting trends here and what you want to look for, just as a rule of thumb, are keywords with a low keyword difficulty and a higher search for humans. So if we actually look right now here and we said, let's just say I'm going to snatch and to search that since you're a natural snack. Do you have like a general ratio you look for? Like it needs to be under ex difficulty and over why search volume? Absolutely. Yeah. So I would say you want to keyword difficulty between 0 and 30. And so what I'll do is I'll come in here and I'll go KD keyword difficulty between 0 and 30. And then I will start there and then the higher the search volume, the better. So this is actually crazy by the way. Look at this. So it's very rare. You see something like that. Wow. High protein snacks. Nine keyword difficulty, 81,000 month of searches. So that's like that's a snatch. Like if you can get like high protein snacks.com. So like literally, let's see, like if you can buy that, like that's worth a shot. Considering it's up investment, people put into businesses, like people of sometimes I think about domain names is like, you know, how to price them or whatever. But I think like if you would generally start a business like a small business minimum $10,000, you'd be considering like maybe I'm going to invest in starting a business, right? Like if you're getting a small business loan. And so in this type of age, where you could build things with AI and directories, like if I saw, that I would absolutely buy this if I saw that type of, you know, this type of thing. It's $7,000. Yeah. The domain. This would kill it though. I love the strategy of searching for a very broad keyword. Yeah. And then looking at what it shows you and like letting your rabbit holes go crazy from that point, right? Yeah. Cause also I can inspire like different ideas as well. So, you know, 0 to 30 is a good keyword difficulty. And for search volume, by the way, this is this is why I'm saying this is crazy. It's because normally I would say even like a thousand is like good, right? Because like, search for you can yeah, like, you know, and this is 81,000, this 81,000. Yeah. So like because if you see a lot of the keywords in my site, so they're not, they just aggregate. So like if I go into where we like care. Yeah. Cause there's going to be a long tail of hundreds or thousands of variations of that keyword. Exactly. You're not only relying on toddler snacks. Exactly. So like, look, spicy Korean, cute wingstop, like I'll just show you what like I'm ranking number. This is all the pages of ranking number one for so like, these are all number one in Google organic, right? And so like volume volume, like we only get 30 for noble bagutacos, but keyword difficulty zero. You know, even this one, I'm going to get 42 visitors a month from this wingstop, but like, you know, it's volume is 80, but keyword difficulty zero in number one. And again, there's loads of those that are zero, zero, zero. By like we're getting that 300, 250, 400. And they just aggregate. And again, this goes on for pages. So we've got pages of just like, you know, number one position, just using the strategy. Now the thing is like, I think especially since recently, I've been seeing how quickly you can build projects using cursor like that. These two projects were built using webflow for their interface. And then I used cursor and code for some of like the these kind of like HTML elements. What I realized recently was to actually build things that code code in cursor was called, but I'm a designer, but I couldn't create something beautiful. And you probably heard that there's this thing of AI slot, right? Like people just create and like, you know, just crazy things that AI renders. But if you look at this side, I'm going to go into a bit of this with some life building in a minute. But all the UI here was built using cursor and code. So none of this is using Figma. Nothing here's using a single design tool. Like every single thing you're seeing here is done just through natural language. And the fascinating thing to me was simply the fact that I can just use my creativity in my mind. And so long as I can explain it, I can get an output. And I think that's such a big lesson for people to take away. Even if you're putting a directory or whatever, it's like, yes, domain is important. You know, keyword research is important. But this is like a stack of skills that you got to build up. And you've got to like look within yourself and think, okay, well, do I have a broad taste palette for what a good website or experience looks like? And if you do, then great, you should be able to explain that. Then it's about the communication. And so long as you can like take inspiration from other sites or other things you've seen and be able to just simply type it into a tool like cursor right here, you can get outputs like this. But simply by saying to it, hey, can you add a blue card at the top of this card? And also do this. And it was just created for you. Do you only use cursor for projects like this? Or do you use replete, lovable, etc? No, I just use curse on Claude code. I find it much easier than replete and I think so when you open up cursor by default, you're going to get a blank screen. And that's what's like why daunting for people is like, okay, where do I start? Because even when I was building, it's like, okay, yes, we understand. We might know what HTML is or CSS or whatever. But like, if you think about the modern web, they use frameworks that are like the cool next JS or tailwind CSS or these technical elements. And I have no clue what any of that means. By the way, even today, I don't really understand them. And I think most of most of my audience is like a little technical, but definitely not a software engineer kind of like me, right? Exactly like us. Yeah, man. So I might go to cursor, I'll go to cursor and I will say, I am building. So by the way, how you want to think about this is, this is cursor over here. And so cursor is the software which has its own chat in it again, just using the Claude model. In here, we have the terminal using Claude code. But even though they're inside the same software, they don't, these two chats don't talk to each other. So this thing over here has no idea what this did. And this has no idea what this does. So basically, when I speak to Claude code, I use speaker cursor about something on the right here. I might do market research with it. I might help it. It's going to set up things for me. But then Claude code will be the executor, right? I think Claude code will give you feedback. I will give that feedback to cursor and cursor sort of like make sure that like with the work is done correctly. Well, people don't realize that sites like TripAdvisor and Yelp have not thousands, not hundreds of thousands, millions of pages that took billions of dollars of software engineering on a decade of grinding. And don't get me wrong, it's still going to be a lot of grinding to create millions of pages with a vibe coding app. But it can be done for 99% less and 99% faster today. Yeah, absolutely. And that was a thing I'm spinning out products like daily, right? Like the direct tree, the best of my life, I will probably build a new one within two or three days. You know, we'll rebuild it and make even better and get to rank you better in Google. And so you can, this is where Chris, a guy like you is perfect for your type of brain, right? Someone who has ideas wants to wake up better and just execute. Like this is made for the people who have ideas. And I'm sure everyone in the audience is like that where they're just like, I want to execute this. And then you actually can execute quicker and prove your point and demo it to someone faster than actually just saying, hey, like what do you think about this idea? You know, like don't if your gut says do it, just execute and you will the time is going to take to try to explain it. Someone you can just get the job done. Yeah. Let's say that for instance, to get this site up and running takes three hours of tinkering and vibe coding, right? It's not perfect, but it's good enough to publish and to put it on a custom domain. If you wanted to take that site and you like the look of it, you like the database that it's pulling from, but you just want to make like keto toddler snacks, dot com, okay? Or something entirely different like horse horse feed dot com, right? Whatever. How many hours or how much effort do you think it would take to use one of these apps to just copy and paste it in a different vertical? Do you want to see if the first if the first version took three hours, how long would the next site take? Because I'm still waiting for a good reason why people aren't vibe coding like thousands of directory sites, like not a director site with thousands of pages, but thousands of them. Okay. So let's say we had this project take a protein snacks. If right click and I click duplicate and my new site is called their duplicate 10 seconds, five seconds. Okay. That was like maybe 10 seconds, 15 seconds maybe. And now I can rename this to, you know, toddler snacks. You're done. That's it. That's a good question. Well, so I guess you still got to swap out like pictures and branding and stuff, right? Yes, but that like the features, the functionality, they all live. This is a beautiful thing about Kursa and Claude code is creating files like it's files for you like all all these sites like like Facebook.com. It's just a series of files. Yeah. Code written inside the files like this is what it's creating for you. So it's creating entire application like if someone says, Oh, I exited my app for like, you know, Snapchat for for 15 billion dollars, they sold a folder. Like that's like, yes, there's a database. It's like, that's like, that's like, like, yeah, it's not it's not complicated. But also it's like, you know, we as this era right now of building allows us all to open our eyes and wake up and say, Oh, like, that's it. Yeah. That is really it. And now the tools that are available, you can create so much of value as well with them. It's something you know, the last time I posted a directory episode, some people in the comments were like, Oh, this is a relevant now. AI is removing the need for directories. What would you say to them? No, not at all, man. I think like, no, like we've just seen it ourselves. I look, but by the way, we're seeing right, this is like live data. We're looking at right with like these sites and we just I just showed you guys as well. I've done right. It's gone now. These grass where this is like in real time, it's growing, you know, it's still growing, it's still coming up. And so, man, absolutely, you know, there's like, and this is you're not, you look, US is one of one of the biggest locations. What?
traffic for us as well. That's like a global market. So yeah, I'd say very much like directories of money maker. There's always going to be a need to remove friction to getting from point A to point B, from getting question asked to question answered, right? And directories just makes that easier, period, end of story. People ask about like AISO, and there's many a guru out there selling like AISO courses, but really at the end of the day, good SEO is good AISO. Like it's really the same thing. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Yeah, yeah, because there's a misconception right now where people, the obvious kind of argument is, well, such engines are going to die, and everyone's using chat GPT. First of all, that no one's kidding of Google right now. So really like every Joe's, like, you know, no matter what we've achieved, like we're not treating dollar company, right? So like you don't have any right to back against them, or like say any, they let them do what they're doing. And they're going to fight to protect themselves. Let them do it. And also the space we're seeing, how volatile it is in terms of the businesses, like, you know, Open AI one day is hyping something up, and then you know, it falls a bit short, and then Google feels like it's falling behind, and it kills it with an image model. Like it's a constant, you know, tug of war between different companies. So let people do what they're doing. Search is very much around. And even the same strategy, schema, is what is being used to pull up data inside chat GPT in Claude as well. So if you go into, let's open up chat GPT right now, and let's just type in, you know, give me a recipe for Wingstop Korean Q wings, right? And let's just see what it comes out with. I don't know if I put the web search version on, but let's see. - Don't get me started on chat GPT five. - Oh man, you know what? I actually haven't even used it that much. Like I've been using Claude so much, but people have been telling me it's like horrible. Look at the world. - Yeah. - This is fast internet as well. Okay, so let's just let this run for a second. But let's see. So this is chat GPT just giving us information, okay? So now let's say, give me your sources. So I write it like such a pun as well, isn't it? - Yeah. - Okay, so. - All right, so. - I mean, how long ago did Google add that feature where it will answer your question for you without you having to click through a website? That was five years ago. - That was five years ago. - I feel like it was not the AI answers. I'm talking about, if you ask like, - All right, all right, yeah. - No, no, what's the capital of boxes? - Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it would just instead of clicking through what, back then everyone was like, oh, like websites are dead. Google doesn't want us to click through to what it's like, no, websites are doing great. - Yeah, oh no. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - Check out GPT has, what is it like, hundreds of millions of daily active users. And to everyone saying like, Google's dying, Google's dead, look at, go to
[email protected]. They're great. They're doing fine. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - There's still billions of people using Google every day. - Dude, and like, there's such an important, I think one of the biggest keywords that I learnt that had a massive impact on like the outcomes I've got in my businesses is two words, value capture, meaning like, there are times when there's shifts happening, and things are going on where there's a tremendous amount of value capture opportunity, right? Like, you know, while this is all happening right now, that yes, there are some businesses that are just AI rappers that maybe in two years might be killed by a chat GPT app or a canva app, but I mean, but it doesn't matter, like right now, you can capture an audience, you can get direct to your audience through social media, you can go viral for something just by posting videos and being engaging, you know, you can create, and also we underestimate how many people are on the planet, there's so many people with different problems they're trying to solve, so many niches within niches that you can just tap into and just create so much value and capitalize on it, you know, and not only that, by the way, forget even the product conversation, like just showing what I've just showed you guys right now, for example, like this, I'm the project that I'm showing you, I'm doing those hobbies, but in my agency, we're doing projects worth millions of dollars using these type of skill sets, right? Where businesses will come to us and say, "Hey, can you build this for us? We've got such and such problem." I would go through a process using Claude Codencasa, but the price tag you can put on that skill set is insane, right? Like insane, like this project that we've charged 100 grand for and it'd have been done like five days, you know? And that's like incomprehensible, it's like better than drug money, you know? I just find that, I'm just finding these skills, you know, I've just tried to compare something. - No, no, no, I mean, think of apps like Calon Lee, right? Like this guy in Atlanta built Calon Lee, nothing did it like that. Now there's a million Calon Lee clones, and then about two years ago, Google comes out with their own Calon Lee feature, and everyone's like, "Calon Lee's dead, it's dead." "Calon Lee's crushing it." Like first mover's advantage, having a moat, having traction, having loyal customers is very, very real, right? And the other framework that I kind of just thought of is let's say you build a wrapper today that becomes obsolete in two years, but that wrapper was like the first thing you really built with your hands, and it feels good, and it got you kind of addicted to that feeling of building and creating. By the time that app or whatever it is that you built two years from now becomes obsolete, you won't care. 'Cause you'll be on project number nine by then. It will be irrelevant to you. And that's the whole point. Like we don't build a wrapper to retire with it. We build a wrapper to taste entrepreneurship and to become addicted to it, and then to build things that only get better in time. - That's the best point, I think of this whole episode, man, is where you just said right there, is like the value of the skill and the experience. And like I said at the very beginning, I said at the very beginning, how I'm feeling now is like, I can't compare it to any type of thing I've felt before, whether it's building or designing or creating, but building with AI, I think everyone should experience it, just to know the feeling I'm talking about. It's like, it's like when you experience something and you can't experience someone else unless they've experienced it, right? Like any type of experience, whether it's traveling or whatever. I think this is like that, which is, you've gotta do it, and you'll feel a very particular feeling, it's like an ignition being started in your body of like, whoa, it's like a whole new brain unlock, because you don't realize how many times our brain actually just stops at idea and doesn't go further than that, because we already know it ourselves, well, I'm not technical, I can't afford to get a developer, and so we just like kind of be like, man, I'm just kind of carry on, and then if someone else does it, we kind of look at it a bit jealous, right? Like, it's been that human condition for so many years that we've got to unwind that. And to undo that, you've got to start building, and in fact, you will unlock such a new version of yourself that is confident, a version of yourself that starts building and creating, and you actually feel like happier around the world. I feel like so much more energized for my family and loved ones because I'm having fun. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - And the results are in real time, by the way. - Yeah. - Right. Have you ever heard a story like on Twitter or anywhere read an article about an entrepreneur that built something that later became irrelevant, and he just like became broke, penniless, declared bankruptcy, and died a miserable man? - I've never read that story. - Right. - So, you know, I built this app and then Facebook, like, put me out of business, and by the time they're telling that story, they're a billionaire from something else. - Yes. - It just doesn't happen. - Wait, absolutely man. And you probably experience that so many times when you're a business is right, it's like the, you only go upwards like that. You fail up. Well, and on the other side of that argument is the opposite, where like in 2010, I opened an iPhone repair store, and I was just like counting down the days. I'm like, this, you know, these screens are gonna become unbreakable, or they're gonna change, you know, technologies evolving so fast, like I gotta get it while they're getting good, and I sold it two years later, and I don't regret that. And then I got into the iPhone part sales business, where I sold wholesale on iPhone parts, and I had the same fear. I'm like, I'm in the same vertical, I'm just higher up the supply chain, and these are become unbreakable. And then I'd read an article about Gorilla Glass, or this new autobox case, that's like, yeah, any day now, guess what? It's been 15 years, there's 30,000 iPhone repair shops, all of my competitors that sold iPhone parts, or like many of them are still around, they're crushing it. Like most opportunities stick around for a while. And so when we make these excuses, like, I want to build a wrapper, it's redundant to chat GPT, it's gonna be out, there's a thousand recipe wrapper apps on the app store. Like you need to understand that that's not a real excuse. That's you coming up with excuses to feel better about not doing it. So you can go to bed that night and think, you know what, I didn't build that wrapper, but it's okay, because it would have failed. So I'll just try something else. Like no, she freaking do it. Like it's like $20 a month for these software products. - It's true. Like even when they release like a max plan, like $200 a month, people are like, $200 a month, you're comparing it to Spotify subscription. Like you're just gonna look at the productivity value. - How much would you choose? - It's your tuition, 2000 a month at university. - And you can learn like that in like a week now. And the fact that if a CTO came to you to try to hire a developer and go, or go to an agency and pay $100,000 to an agency, or like 10 grand a month to like a developer, and they came to you and said, "Hey, I'll do this work for you, but I'll bring 10 of my other amazing friends who also do this." So you're 100 grand worth of value a month, but I'll give it to you for like $200. You'd build that person a home to live with you. Like that's literally what these services are like. And by the way, your story reminded me of two things. One is, I think it was a bellkin or ancook. Like with the leads, 'cause when the iPhone was obviously out, they started releasing the own sort of like, you know, accessories and stuff. And one of the biggest questions that I get are from investors were like, "Well, Apple, I'm just gonna release their own and just put them in their stores." And I think his insight was so simple about interesting, which was, let's say the iPhone accessories market is like a $2 billion market. That's like not a market worth going for for a company that size of Apple, right?
And so even by $2 billion market to like nobody is like a $2 billion market. And so creating entire lane just by taking a part of a market that big company otherwise wouldn't even need to go for because it's not worth their time. And so sometimes we like can discount like how valuable ideas are whether they're worth pursuing because just think that someone else might do it because within their business, you know, itself. Yeah. And the other thing is I think like the time we're in is a most related best to the way Jeff Bezos set up Amazon and not from a cliche perspective just from a very, very like, you know, clear example. He explains that when he set up Amazon like you saw this sort of uptick in internet usage and then he figured that so much of the infrastructure had already been built for him like the Postal Services existed, you know, payment processing existed and other internet existed. And so all he had to do is kind of like, you know, put a wrapper around him. And so I'm like, dude, Amazon is a wrapper. Yeah. In like a lot of ways. And so it because you're just tying together infrastructure. And so APIs, these aren't postal services. It's not credit. You have strike. It's one string of like numbers that you need to integrate into your app like open the same. The API keys are all you need to have to stitch these things together and you have to explain to cursor or code what you want to do with them. And you can kill it. Almost every business is a wrapper. And when you're talking about Amazon, I was thinking about the biggest companies in the world that are consumer brands back to the conversation about paying $200 a month for the most expensive version of chat, GPT or or cloud or whatever. Let's look at the most valuable consumer brands in the world. Apple. Why are they so valuable? Because the products they sell back to value capture offer a 100x differential on what it costs versus the value people get out of it, right? My $3,000 MacBook Pro is going on year five. It runs like the day I bought it. How much wealth have I created on that little keyboard? That's one of the half-hole. That's why I was thinking about that. So if you want to think of the most, they become so valuable, I should say the market cap of a company is directly correlated to the amount of value that their products offer people. So if Apple wanted to be stingy and say, our customers get so much value out of these MacBook Pros, we're going to make them $30,000. Because they're still going to get 10x value out of them instead of 100x. They wouldn't be as valuable. Period and a story. They wouldn't sell as many of them. And their net market cap as a result of this change would drop significantly. So with that same framework, OpenAI, like four years in, is worth half a trillion dollars. They're not even public atridia. Their last round was $500 billion. One take is like, oh my gosh, that's we're so frothy right now. We're like, we're recession coming. We're at the top. And the other take is like, whatever they're selling to consumers, I need to buy because that valuation is directly correlated to the value that their products offer. So whatever the most expensive plan is, I want a 100x return on my investment. Why would I pay for the $20 a month plan? Now, this is assuming that you use it and it doesn't just sit there unused. If you use it on a regular basis, you might as well go to the most expensive monthly version and treat it as a Harvard education. Because that's a lot more than $200 a month. Dude, that's where people are you coming in, man. With like, free content like this, that's out there for people to get. You know, there's no room that you can walk into to get that type of information that you're providing, you know, video after video, you know, everything you're saying on this episode as well, man. That's what it is, you know. And you can ingest that. And again, you take that then to your point, use the tools in the way you want to. But okay, I learned this from this episode. Now I'm going to do this over here and like, that's how you're going to get your value. By like opening up your A's in your mind and then I'm being creative in the way you execute with it. Yeah. By the way, when we did this, such in for this recipe in chat GPT, I then asked it for its sources and guilty chef was number one. And so it goes to show that like, I've been hearing people say as well, you need like, lm.txt file. There's none of that in my mind. Yeah. I've got SEO schema. It's like you said, some of the HTML is broken right now. Like I need to fix it. Like, you even got bugs. Yeah, just ship the damn thing. And you're ranking number one on Google and number one on chat GPT. And so just imagine if I put a little, if I just worked on this every day, I like put more effort into it. Like it could, there's so many more things that could probably come from the back of it. But just with like a lazy approach, quote unquote, like without doing Reddit or who no trip advisor with a wing stops own brand, you know, because they are not even like investing time into the right content or strategy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So that's our next page. Oh, okay. So this is your product. Yeah. So 50 plus best protein snacks. Wow. That's incredible. Yeah, probably needs a little bit of a UI work, but you can see it. So it's incredible. And it's pulling in actual high protein snacks, Rx bar, Quest nutrition. It's funny that that number one, the chargership cookie protein bar, I eat two of those every single day. Oh, thank you. I'd like I survive on those. Maybe even those when they're cool. They're good. They're good. They're shared by that is crazy. And you could just look, this is all SEO content, by the way, you know, you could just have affiliate links to the Amazon very. Yeah. That is crazy. And then it has, then it has a compare comparison chart here. It's made to the comparison UI for us. So like, you know, which one's the highest protein now? Now, by the way, if you wanted to actually look protein per dollar, I just got crazy with this. But if you wanted to like, it's got a whole like lead capture form here. Wow. You know, protein per dollar filtering. Yeah. Oh my gosh. No, no, no, that's what I'm saying. Like, you don't, I didn't ask you to do any of this stuff. Like, you just figured it out. Like, it just goes off and it's worth it. Because I told it to be like the best SEO. You saw my problem. My prompt is like tiny. It was like, what I actually said, my words were like one, two, four, four, like two sentences. Yeah. But then the framework, so because I installed the framework from here, basically, that gave me the entire prompt for Claude code, which I just copy and paste it. So like this exact thing right here, yeah, this thing, like if I open up a text file, this is the prompt effectively to create that, right? Prompt for Claude code. I don't know how to write that. But the most valuable way to use AI is to get the AI to talk to the AI. So you get to write to itself, you know? And so I'm saying to it, I'm going to curse on saying, this is what I want. It then goes and does research says, okay, well, here's what you need to say to Claude code because Claude code is the best at programming. And then because Claude code is so good at programming and curse understands that it's called Claude code, it knows how to talk to it. And it's already ingested what I want. But I've just given it two sentences and it's from two sentences has created me this entire thing. And now from here, the protein calculator. Oh my gosh. It's got an interactive calculator. Holy crap. Yeah, actually what? I mean, you could create like high iron drinks. Low iron drinks. Oh yes. High carb snacks. Low carbs. Like you can create hundreds of variants of just like the insert you know macro nutrient plus type of food. Crazy, right? And like now it hasn't even created like a single web page for us. But if I said single page for one of these, it will do that in a few minutes. And then if I wanted to connect to the data, again, remember when we set this up, we already gave it our super based credit here. We gave it our super based credentials, which is our database, right? So you go to super based.com, we just connect it. And so now it already has a database. If I said to it, said to it, now go and go into super based, create a table and connect live data to it using fire code. It can go to research and put it in my database. And now I've got like live information that like users can can can use. So by the way, let me just show you a quick door thing here. Like if you want to change some of the design. So like, no, let's actually say we want to change some of the buy now button. So let's say I want the buy now. So now micro iterations, you can do directly, quad code, right? So like these and tiny little things, you don't need to keep going to cursor. So cursor's more for like building features, functionality, things like that. But like this is how I design now. So I might look at this. And by the way, another great hack for design is use dribble. Like dribble is basically like a designer's inspiration tool. But dribble have this hidden page that used to be public, right? There's this page that no one on the site can you find it now, but the page is still public. It's forward slash buckets. And the reason is such a cool page is because these are effectively private folders that people are creating with things they like. And so it's like seeing people's private Pinterest pins. But these are people are saving design things they like. And so I go, by the way, for context, I use dribble religiously every morning. Like it's a part of just, I don't even think about it. I'm so obsessed with like visuals and design that this is just like go to and need to know what designs are looking like. And so you go in here and we can even type in something to search. But let's say I go here and type in like, you know, e-commerce, for example. And it was give me a load of inspiration pages just for e-commerce design. And so I might see something here that I like to look of. And let's say, okay, great. I like this. So that's doing animation, didn't it? But let's say you find a page like you like to look of. You can use that as inspiration for your own site. So you don't need to pay the count. Just copy page. So you can actually do is I can go, I'm going to let's see if this works. I'm going to save image. I'm going to go to my project. Let's test this. I've never done this type of thing in a while. So it'll be fun to see with you guys if it works. And here, let's just create a folder I could like, you know, design reference. And let's save it. And I'm going to say, let's see if you can pick up the colors and anything from here. So let's say, so you can see now, since I've added it to my local file, Curses connected to your local, just your computer, right? So a design reference has an image in that now.
Now that image I just added. Someone say I've added a folder to the project called Design Reference with an image ref init. I want you to take inspiration from this UI and apply it to the products grid UI. We want to see if it can change this design based on this inspiration. It will read the image now. Find the image that's reading the design image. So, a Claude code can do that. If you look at the image visually, and you can try and figure out what's in there, now we'll look at this page. This is why designing is so cool, because everything happens live. You can go and find inspiration, you can put in a folder. I just tell Claude code what you want, and we'll see what it does and what it comes out like. There you go. It's just updated design for us. It took this inspiration here. It picked out the key components, so the colors and everything. And then still applying some designs with the styles here. But it's trying to copy as much of that as possible to get it to match what we saw. So you can just throw in design inspiration as well. I know it's just copy things. Let me just stop it there for a minute. I'll show you something. Like I said, change add to cart, but into red and make borders square. It looks also change the borders in other areas as well. Yeah. Yeah, it's automatically just trying to figure out how to match the styles. Yeah. One square borders on the add to cart page. I wanted the square borders on add to cart button. So if you mix a mistakes, you can also say to it, oh, I didn't want you to do that. And I would just say, oh, sorry, can undo changes or whatever. See that it's just applied it to these pages. These buttons. But this is how I've designed this entire like platform. So like, you know, everything here has been designed just using this type of like, you know, way of speaking to it and iterating. Yeah, man, it's just not just that you could just take this and I put our whole directory. That's so good. Like I just want to like cancel. I just like Susan cancel my calls. I'm building. I don't I don't even know a season. But if I had it in person, the system is the season. Yeah, dude, you've over delivered. This is really good. This is this is going to be a banger. Thank you. No, I'm way ahead of people find you or whatever you're building. Yeah, man, you can go to five day sprint.com using number five. If you want to do anything, this stuff. I just showed you like, you know, you can get just. Go to new project to sign up there. And you can just, you know, generate your own project and get a one line and you're good to go. And then school.com/fiveday sprint. I'll give you the links as well. But like those are the two areas that you can jump in on and just connect with me. I'm willing to. For sure. I appreciate you, man. Thank you so much. Hey, guys, if you're still listening to this, it's probably because you haven't had a chance to take your AirPods out. You're still mowing the lawn. You're still driving. What have you? If you're still here with me, I would really, really love and appreciate a five star review on Spotify, Apple or wherever you get your podcast. It would mean a lot if you want to go the extra mile, share this episode with a friend that might have an interest in starting a business. It would mean a ton. Hope you have the best day of your life today.
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