The Money Behind the Met Gala ft. Amy Odell

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That's code Mrs Dow Jones 50 off at factor meals dot com. See website for more details. The other day I was going through my desk and I found a journal right from when I graduated and it had pen and paper how much I spent each day at this time. I think I was making around $40,000 in access cash flow was pretty tight so I had to watch every penny. I think about how far we've come with technology and advancements to help us with this stuff. We don't need a journal with pen and paper anymore. The answers are out there and Monarch is one of those answers. Monarch is literally it's like having a financial advisor in your pocket. So you can use AI to help see what you're spending. Monarch will help you have full visibility in your counts. It will help you see your trends. It will help you set goals, map out big purchases. See if you're actually on track to where you wanted to be, you can ask Monarch's AI assistant anything about your finance. It's like, hey, how much should I spend on travel last summer? Can I forward this vacation without touching my savings? You can spot things you wouldn't think about before. Like, oh, hey, has my spending gone up or just inflation? I was using pen and paper. Now you can use tools like a full financial advisor in your pocket and that's called Monarch. So what you want to do is you want to go to Monarch dot com use code trading. The first year of Monarch core is half off at just 50 bucks. That's 50% off your first year. Just go to Monarch dot com with code trading. I think that's what makes it fascinating. People are like, what is it that makes Anna Winter decide to pick you that you get to go and walk up those steps and address custom made for you by one of the world's greatest designers. You know, what is it about you? What's up rich people? It's me Haley aka Mrs. Dow Jones and this is financial team. Today is a very exciting episode of Financial T. I have been wanting to talk to this guest for a long time. I was trying to figure out like what the right moment was and I thought the first we go may would sort of be the perfect opportunity because we can talk about the Metcala and my guess is Amy O'Dell author of Gwyneth Paltrow and Anna wind tours biographies. She has an amazing newsletter. She hosts the back row podcast and she is the best selling author of both Gwyneth Paltrow and Anna wind tours biographies. You guys, if you are going on vacation or you just like need a new book in general, like these are two of my favorite biographies of all time. They are so juicy. You're truly an enemy of both of those ladies states because you found all of the tea out. So girl after my own heart, you really brought a lot to the surface. I would call you a tea leaf reader of celebrity power and influence and I'm excited for you to be here so that we can talk about the Metcala and all the finances that go into it. What an intro. It feels electric. It's not an intro. It was electric. Thank you. But first, let's get into the end. Okay. Today's market report is a special edition focused on the business of influencing. Please don't turn this off even if you're not an influencer. You are affected. I promise. Like, as Oprah once said, were you influenced or were you an influencer? JK, she said were you silent or were you silence, but like same thing. Let's start with Nara Smith though. She just announced her cookbook homemade, which is dropping October 13th. It has 80 recipes. It's got a custom red art cover. She's wearing Ralph Lauren. She's wearing Tom Brown. And look, I just want to be real. This woman has 17.2 million followers. So like, if you think this cookbook and the lifestyle that she's selling is about staying home and baking bread and taking care of your husband, it is not. It's a business of very successful one. And here's the thing that I want to highlight. Tradwife content sells this idea of opting out, but it only exists because the person creating it is hyper online and fully opted in. So like what you're looking at is an eight-figure business model basically disguised as domesticity. And importantly, the product is not the lifestyle. Like the product is emotional relief. Like right now people are overwhelmed. Like burn out is high. We all just want chickens and eggs and like a life outside and a barn. Like the cost of living is so high. The future feels unstable. So like what sells? Control. Simplicity. This fantasy of a slower life. And you know, I talk a lot about the monetization of nostalgia in hard times. And this is exactly like that because like behind the scenes, this lifestyle requires filming and editing and negotiating and building and distribution and like that is called a full-time job, honey, a high-skill, entrepreneurial job. Okay. Nara is not opting out of work. She is rebranding it and then selling you the illusion that she did. So in a lot of ways, I just think this is like the GirlBoss era in a core set. It's the same hustle, but it's got a new aesthetic and better performing content. The 2010s GirlBoss said I can do it all at the office and the 2026 tradwife says I choose to do it all at home. But the difference is that the tradwife era also carries a genuinely risky financial message underneath it because in today's economy, if you actually opt out without income, without ownership, without leverage, when you become reliant on a man, because you're just like at home, taking care of things, you make yourself incredibly vulnerable. So like the aesthetic is beautiful, but the financial reality it implies that being financially dependent as a positive thing is not. So I just want to be clear. The tradwife isn't opting out of capitalism. She is winning at it. But the question is whether her audience knows that they're the product and that's sort of the theme of this whole market report. Oh, and speaking of the audience not knowing they're the product, I want to talk about sponsored influencer weddings because we are entering wedding season and an influencer just had her wedding sponsored by drumroll, please capital one. Okay. And this has become normal. We're not going to have white wedding dresses anymore. We're going to look like NASCAR drivers walking down the aisle with like different patches from brands. Like brides are designing their days with a Willico viral mindset. I saw acquired styles at fukets getting her, you know, group of brides made spray tans. Lord knows where they're off to by the time that I release this, you know, it's all a content moment. Sure. The day is still emotional. You might really love the person you're married, but it's also a shoot. And here's the part that nobody is talking about. These influencers aren't paying for any of it. That fukets sweet shooting pay for that. The photo booth gifted the florals, a partnership, the dresses, the late night fireworks. It is all sponsored. The whole thing is essentially a free wedding in exchange for content, which again, respect the hustle. But like when that wedding goes viral, it becomes the new benchmark. So like the average bride who does not have a capital one deal is now trying to recreate a $500,000 event on a $30,000 budget. And look, the American wedding industry is already a $70 billion machine built on the idea that your wedding should be like the most spectacular thing that you've ever done the best day of your life. And I feel like all of these influencer weddings have just poured jet fuel on that. And it's worrisome because couples are going into serious debt, trying to match this aesthetic that was literally free for the person who said it. I don't know. I just think this whole thing is like a trend setting machine where the person at the top pays nothing and everyone downstream pays everything. It's basically MLM. It's a MLM, you guys. And I don't think that's love. That is a funnel. And then our last story is about sandwiches. If you didn't know this about me, I'm the biggest Jersey Mike's girl. We eat it like one so we get my office. It is so good. I'm obsessed. And they are IPO-ing. And my phone was blowing up because everyone was like, "Holy, you're obviously going to buy the Jersey Mike's IPO." And I was like, "Actually, girl, I ran the numbers and I would never buy the Jersey Mike's IPO." And so I want to explain what an IPO even freaking is and why they're not right for everyone. So basically an IPO is an initial public offering. So it's when a private company goes public and everyone can then invest in it. And then the early investors get to cash out. So let's talk about what the Jersey Mike's IPO specifically, like who is going to benefit from them going public on the New York Stock Exchange. In this case, it's going to be Blackstone. Yes, Blackstone, the private equity group that everyone loves to hate, they and my ex works out. But they bought Jersey Mike's in 2024 for $8 billion. And two years later, it had a $12 billion valuation. So like this isn't really about Jersey Mike's even needing capital to scale. It's really about Blackstone getting out. Like they want to flip it. sandwiches of vehicles. the exit is the point. So you always need to ask when you see these things like who is selling and why now? And it's like, yeah, Blackstone wants to make some money. Okay, the next thing that you want to do when you see an IPO is read the numbers, not the narrative. So like obviously like I said, I love Jersey mics. Oh, yeah, you would think I want to invest in them because I love their juicy, juicy sandwiches. Absolutely not. I looked at the numbers. Their revenue is up 10.6 percent, which sounds great, but their net income is down 23 percent. So that gap is the most important line in the filing and most people are going to skip right past it. Healthy companies grow both, and when they diverge, you need to find out why before you hand over your money. So the next thing you need to do is understand if you're even getting a good deal. Like understand what you're paying for. So Jersey mics at $12 billion at $309 million in revenue. That means that you're paying 39 times revenue. And by guys, that is not fast food mouth. That is like tech AI company math for a sandwich. So it's overpriced. And I got it. You're buying what someone is promising it will become. That's like the whole point of investing, but I'm just saying like those rent that's crazy to me. Like that, I'm paying like tech prices for sandwich. And the last thing I will say with an IPO is you always want to watch the signals because they always shift around like who's leading the company before they go public. Like with Jersey mics, they just hired the guy who took wingsop public in 2015 and delivered a 700% return over a decade, which to me is like a message to Wall Street. You know, it's not even an operations decision. They're just like, yeah, we mean business. And you know what, I'm rooting for them. I love Jersey mics, but I will not be buying this stock. This IPO absolutely not at $39 times revenue with falling net income. Like I don't care who the new CEO is. You have to really believe hard in that story to get on board. And the job of every IPO is to make you do that before you even see the receipts. But we are here at the financial T. We are sippers. We always look at the receipts and we know the difference between a great sandwich and a great investment. And that's why we are so rich and smart. So yeah, don't fall for these IPOs, baby, just buy low-cost index funds. They honestly, they all tank. Okay, now let's get into our interview. You started as a journalist, right? And then you parade into writing these books that have like really cemented your place in the culture as, you know, this expert on, of course, Quenna Peltro, but also Anna Win-Tor, who someone who just has such a legend about her. And what I loved about your book was learning that Anna had always been Anna, like even when, you know, like she was like in high school, like changing the hams on her skirts. Speaking back to the teachers, at her first job, she brought in new furniture for the office. Like she has always been that girl with like her own perspective, who, you know, had her own vision of how things were supposed to be. Like can you talk a bit more about that? Yeah. So Anna is the daughter of Charles Win-Tor, who was a very well respected and well-known newspaper editor in London. And she's very much like her father. He was called Chilly Charlie. One of the people who worked for him told me that he would, like Anna is not big on small talk. When you're meeting someone for the first time or hanging out with someone who you don't know, I think many people have the natural inclination to fill the space, to just, you know, make conversation. But Anna doesn't do that. And actually her father, someone who worked with him told me, he would write down things to talk about at lunch. Like if you took a staff member to lunch. And then that would help him drive the conversation. But he was known as being cold, foreboding, intimidating, rather like her. So, but talk about her route to the Mec Gala, because when like she started with the Mec Gala, it was not what it is now. It was like a small little charity event. Like, okay, you know, and it was in support of, you can tell us about it, but in support of the costume institute at the Museum of the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York City, which is completely self-funded. So it has to, all the money has to be raised. Yeah. So Anna's first event was in 1995 and Oscar D'Ilarenta called her and asked her if she would help plan it. And it was historically known as the Party of the Year. Oh, so even then. I would say, yeah, nobody calls it the Party of the Year anymore because it's so much more than that. The Super Bowl Entertainment event, sweetie. Not just fashion. She took it on in 1995. The idea was that they wanted someone from the fashion world to plan it, but they didn't want to design her because they thought that would be a conflict of interest. She ends up taking it on. And I think the initial plan was for her and Liz Tolberis, who was her rival, editor at Herpers Bazaar, to kind of alternate, but then Liz Tolberis died in the late 90s of cancer. And Anna took it on and she's been doing it basically ever since. So from 1999 through today, they, I think they skipped 2001 because of 9/11, but she's been planning it every single year. And the costume institute is unique within the Metropolitan Museum of Art because it has to raise all its own money. It does not benefit from the medicine down there. And historically, it has sort of been the, I don't know how to say this, uh, stepchild. Yeah, the, like, faster steps. Yeah, the one that we're going to cut if it doesn't work. Like, yeah, it just wasn't, like, is fashion art. I think that's a question that like, maybe it gets debated less to this day. Um, you know, we see designers or brands like Scapper Reli get a big exhibitions in the VNA. I think these fashion exhibits have really proliferated around the globe and become a lot more popular. And large part going to this success of the costume institute at the Met, which is able to be so big and fabulous and splashing because of all the money that Anna went to her has helped raise for it. So yes, it has to raise all its own funds. It doesn't benefit from the medicine down. And the primary way it does that is through the Met Gala. In order to go to the Met Gala, it's like from, with most charity events, if you wanted to go, you could go, you just buy a ticket. But this is a charity event that even if you have the money to buy a ticket and you'll walk us through, of course, I hope how much the tickets are this year, because I want all that data. But you're not allowed to just buy a ticket. Are you kidding? No, you have to be approved by Miss Winter herself. Yes. So this has evolved greatly over the years, I would say. Yeah, but it used to be kind of this sort of stuffy old-fashioned society event where, you know, rich people have done the Upper East Side of New York would buy a ticket. They would go. They would have a nice evening at the museum and that would raise sufficient funds. And that was kind of that. When I was a babysitter on the Upper East Side for a boy named Winthrop, but then I all had like other clients too, you know, I'd get to Fifth Avenue, whatever. I had to babysit once for the parents going to the Met Gala, like just a rich couple. So those people have kind of been shunted. Yeah, I would say. And there was, I think this has kind of disappeared. Well, I think that the whole world, this is a topic for another pod. But I think the whole world of Upper East Side, polite charity events, like that's all really changed. I used to cover those events when I was just starting my career as a journalist in New York magazine around 2008. And I just feel like there's a lot less of that and it's all really changed. But anyway, yeah, so it used to be that sort of event in New York. Talk us through. So when Anna took it over in 1995, a ticket for one person was $1,000. In 2025, tickets for one person were $75,000. And tables in 2025 started at $350,000. That's so crazy. But I think it's important to note that because it is a charity event, that is tax deductible. Yes, but I guess it's complicated with the tax deductions. And you probably know more about that than me. But I did pull because I knew you wanted to talk about that. I'm not an accountant, I'm a journalist. But the New York Times did a story about this in 2025, so about a year ago by Benjamin Applebaum. And I can tell you, I can tell you what he wrote about this because he was kind of saying that in this piece, it's called the really unfair thing about the Met Gala. He says what does stick in my craw is that the Met gets to reap the benefits of a larger federal tax breaks than your local church or soup kitchen. Americans with bigger incomes get larger income tax deductions on every dollar they donate to charity. If the famous and fabulous people who glided up the Met's blue carpeted steps at the Costum Institute's annual gala on Monday evening actually paid for their own tickets, which ran 75k per person. They could deduct most of the cost for some of them that can amount to a discount of about 30% off the price of admission. So when something is tax deductible, does it mean that it's free? It just means that you're getting some sort of offset to your taxable income with it. Exactly. So you don't pay taxes on that part that you're deducting and the part that you, I guess you pay for like the cost of like your meal and the entertainment. And it's the part that is like the charitable donation that is protected. So they have to, they got, they have to value how much like the rest of it is. And then whatever is left over is what's tax deductible. Right. So then some people will argue. And I think that what this piece is basically arguing is that like, you know, if a billionaire donates to the Met gala, they reduce their tax bill, which means the government collects less revenue, which means that a subsidy is in effect going to the Costum Institute versus say healthcare for people who really need it. Look, there's a lot of issues with the tax code. It was written by the people that it protects. So, you know, and that's like a bigger, deeper issue that just is part of living in America that like, you know, so much of tax deductions and things like and like how it's protected is just because of like the fact that what it's people protecting themselves. But I will say it is going to donate to the arts. And that's one argument that I've heard repeatedly for why it's fine, Jeff Bezos and Lauren Sanchez. Bezos are sponsoring a K.A. funding this year's gala in part because isn't this what billionaires are supposed to do is to fund their money to museums and to the arts. And not everyone agrees with that, but that is an argument in defense of them being involved that I've heard a lot. I do agree that billionaire should bankroll the arts like 100%. I think there needs to be like so many grants for artists and like free museums and all of that. But I think that what's happening with the Bezos is something that we're seeing with a lot of billionaires where they understand the power of media. Yeah, it's not something that you can, it is something that you can just buy, but it's also something that's like very sort of material and like needs to like be created first and Vogue has all of that cash. And so their connection to Vogue to me feels much more like they are trying to own the narrative of themselves versus actually from like a good place in their hearts, trying to contribute to the museum. Yeah, I think the cynical counter argument or maybe not even cynical, but the counter argument to that point that oh, they're doing what they're supposed to do. They're giving their money to this thing is that they're using fashion and entertainment and the McAllen Vogue, etc. to launder their their images. Do you agree with that? I think that's true. Yeah, I think so. I think that, you know, I was talking to Tech Journalist Taylor Lawrence about this on my podcast recently, because we're seeing a lot of these tech billionaires just kind of show up in fashion. And it's weird. It's really unexpected to see Mark Zuckerberg sitting front row. And she made the point and I and I think it's a good one that they're using these spaces where they can just show up, get photographed. They don't have to answer any questions. They just sit there to kind of seem like cool and okay, you know, so when Anna took on the mat, there was no sponsorship. It was purely about charity. And one of her publishers at Vogue from over the years told me like, we were not allowed to monetize that. It was just purely charity. So now that has changed. Vogue sells sponsorships of the content that it creates of the gala. I mean, publishing is not what it was today in 1999, obviously. So now Vogue sells those sponsorships for like mega mega bucks. Yeah, so let's talk about the media impact value because I feel like we haven't even touched on the fact that the carpet of the mechala actually has a bigger media impact value than the Super Bowl. So think about the fact that like, it's a known thing that advertisers blow all their money on Super Bowl ads. But actually, the because so many people are watching it. So like, that's a great place to really double down. But the the mechala has the say has more of an impact in the media than the Super Bowl does. And so let's talk about those numbers because I know that those are quantified, like how much each of those are. I think what we know about the value of being there is that it's really how it retains to Vogue's business. And I think you can just see this in Kandai NAS business model as it stands today and as it's evolving today. So they're kind of trying to what they're doing is they're monetizing the mechala very effectively. So they're trying to come up with other events that they can monetize in the same way. That's why we're seeing the vanity fair Oscar party kind of evolved into something that's a little bit more like the mechala with their livestream that they did this year. I think GQ GQ's like man of the year event and stuff like that Vogue is doing Vogue world. It's sort of like they're doing these events just that they can so they can post about that. 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That's q-u-i-n-c-e.com/financial T. The summer was incredible, but I'm already looking forward to fall and getting back into all my routines, eating healthy. The balance deals with factor. It's really my non-negotiable for a reset. Factor makes chef crafted dietitian designed ready to eat meals so you don't have to choose between real food and convenience. 97% of users agree that factor meals help them live a healthier life. So you can feel confident that you're already doing something good for yourself just with every meal. I love their salmon burgers and their protein shakes. They are the perfect start to long work days. Let's eat real had to factor meals.com/missesdownjones50 off and use code Mrs. Dow Jones 50 off to get 50% off and one free breakfast item per box for one year while supplies last until 1031 2026. That's code Mrs. Dow Jones 50 off at factor meals.com. So how much do they pay because I know they always have an amazing performer. How much do they pay them? So in 2015, Rihanna was paid around a million bucks to perform as I reported in my book and of the biography. And then we also know that in 2024 when the entertainment was Rihanna Grande and Cynthia Rivo, the entertainment costs were around $1.3 million. And then in 2025, we know that the entertainment costs were about $1.2 million. That was usher and Stevie Wonder performing. And do you know how much it costs to actually just put on the gala like who who puts that? So we can see so we can see in the tax filings what the what the fundraising events cost the cost to institute. And it's primarily the Mac Gala that is those fundraising costs. So in 2025, the cost institute spent nearly $7 million on fundraising events. Okay, so around said it earned yes, and it raised, excuse me, $31 million. Wow. The Mac Gala. It's a good return. Yeah. So Anna has topped her haul, I think just about every year. But what's amazing is the event both raises money for the costume institute, but it also generates so much money for Vogue because they monetize the content that they're making about it. That's right. And that's not being donated. So it's so smart. It's like a juggernaut. Like it's like they're she's got you a girl who can do both. She's raising money and she's making money. So I do know that in 2022, Vogue charged a million dollars for two six second spots over the course of two hours in the Mac Gala live stream. And that reporting comes from the business of fashion. But not to mention like just all the money that are making on the views, like they're selling spots. Yes. But then they're also just like getting so many followers, they're having such a like they're owning the feed. Like when you go on your phone, the first Monday and May, all that you see is the Mac Gala. Exactly. And then I think it's safe to say too that the celebrities are benefiting and profiting as well. Because let's say you have a contract with a big brand like Dior and you have to wear Dior a certain number of times throughout the year. Well, then you're you're checking that box or whatever it may be. Is the Gala more expensive in certain years over others? Like what dictates how much it costs? Well, I think they just try to make raise more money every single year. And so that has also tried to keep it smaller and more exclusive, as much as I hate to use that overused word, you know, thinking that, you know, we'll charge more, like we'll be able to charge more if it feels more exclusive. Everything should be exclusive. It really does scarcity drives up the price. I think that you could also argue that the optics are getting challenging just because of an equality in the country right now. Yeah. And I interviewed for my background newsletter recently, someone from the group everyone hates Elon that's planning a protest of Jeff Bezos peg to the mechala in New York City. I've heard there's a lot of people are, you know, they got their they got their their markers out. They're making their signs like they're ready to go. Yeah. So the Bezos funding of this year's event has been hugely controversial as we've discussed. And this group effectively demonstrated at their wedding in Venice. Oh, yeah, that would they did a good job. They made a big banner that they unfurled and sort of like a plaza in Venice about how Bezos should pay his tax. But that was picked up by like every single news outlet. Because they got the right picture, the right words, it created the perfect sort of viral moment. So they're planning something. I don't know what exactly they're going to do. But anyway, the person from this group, everyone hates Elon, who I interviewed said, I don't think the stuff is that fun anymore. And I I wonder if that's kind of like the core thing that the gala has to overcome these days is you know, what kind of expects the audience to lavish praise and attention and fandom on all of these people who get to be there, who get to walk up the steps because they're paid for or because they were able to pay this, you know, extraordinary exorbitant amount of money. Meanwhile, there's just so much suffering and income inequality is just, you know, getting exacerbated. I'm sure you have all the stats on that, the K-shaped economy, all of that. So I think the optics around the event have gotten a little bit more challenging since COVID. I think that's such a good point. And I feel like with celebrity culture in general, something that draws people to it is that it is this form of escapeism. Like we can lose ourselves in an episode of the Kardashians are, you know, looking at pictures of, you know, a celebrity on the Daily Mail. And it takes you out of your own life for a minute. But as the temperature in the country has turned up and, you know, wages have saved the same. Inflation has gotten crazy. Student debt, no one can own home. All of these things about how the American dream is just sort of dead. And like we need a new American dream, I think that it's been a lot harder to embrace that escapeism. Exactly. That's exactly what this protestor was saying. Yeah, I think that's really true. But I also wonder, despite the fact that yes, that's true. How much that will actually change? Because at the end of the day, that's more thought, but it doesn't really, the way that the media is run right now is so algorithm based. And so meta, whether they're going to admit it or not, as like a sponsor of the mechala is obviously when you open your phone, no matter who you are on the day of the mechala, you're being pushed that content. So despite the fact that like, yes, it is a little dystopian, it doesn't mean that it's not going to still every year get bigger and like have more value. You know what I mean? It's sort of like out, it's too big to fail. I think that there's a risk that people don't go because of controversies associated with it. You know, I did hear about stars that were a little wary of going when they did Karl Lagerfeld because that was really controversial. Yeah, because the other thing is like, Anna has no problem, you know, staging these elaborate homages to these very controversial people. Karl Lagerfeld was a controversial dude. It would take the biggest people taking a stand like the Kardashians and like all the other, like Sydney, Swini and the big people. But guess what? Sydney, Swini's lingerie line is sponsored by Jeff Bezos and Kim Kardashian is loves to vacation on his boat. I think people need it. I mean, I think that the thing that I don't know, it's kind of like where do we end up with the current state of inequality? Let's solve it. Where do we end up? I just, I don't know. I don't know where we end up, but I see it in my reporting every single day. I see it in fashion. I mean, I'm a fashion journalist, fashion culture journalist. I interview VICs, very important clients who were the top spenders at brands like Chanel and Dior. Some of these women spend half a million to seven figures and up a year on clothes. And they're rewarded with these perks. And then on the other end of the spectrum, a machine and Timo and instant fashion that's washing up on beaches and Ghana and causing, you know, a whole host of problems, a wing to pollution and all that. So there's just the case, it's like the case shaped economy, like it manifests everywhere. I don't know where we end up, but I do see this tension even within fashion that is an industry that is very sort of friendly to wealth and to wealthy people. And there's been a big movement in fashion lately to kind of open it up a bit more, like let people who are just fans kind of participate in this industry. And the MacAla is the very opposite of that. And I think that's what makes it fascinating. Like, who does she deem worthy in that honor? But that has all just come under a lot more scrutiny in the last six years. And I don't know where it ends up, but I see the tension. I see the strain in just so many aspects of my reporting. Have you heard any solutions that you think are worth acknowledging? From what I know, I don't see a lot coming from the Vogue side because, you know, she put Lauren Sanchez in the magazine and these big profiles twice written by Chloe Mell, the new head of editorial content. One, of course, was the digital cover story pegged to her wedding. And then the other was a profile in the magazine, which had that famous photo of her and Jeff Bezos embracing. Oh my God, in the car. He's wearing a cowboy hat. I remember something like that. Any leave of this, I think. Yeah. So, you know, she, she had to have known that that was going to be, I mean, the first time she did it, it was so controversial. Their wedding was being protested. That was so controversial. I mean, they had to have known that people were going to, you know, have big feelings about that, which they did. And then now they're finding the Mac Alice. Oh, I don't know that she cares. And then according to my sources and other reporting that I've seen, Anna has wanted to do a John Galliano exhibition, which would be another really controversial one because of his past and his medic remarks that got him fired from Dewar. So she really is able to separate the art from the artist and the money from the billionaire. But it's also a bit of view, I scratch your back, you scratch mine. Do you think that Kim Kardashian's vote cover was like a turning point for that? That's what fans say. I mean, do I think it was a turning point? Yeah, I think it was a turning point for her maybe more so than Vogue. I don't know how Vogue gets by without acknowledging influencer culture. They like do you think we'll see Alex Earl on the carpet this year? Addison Rae has gone. I think people were like, ooh, like, you know, people don't want to see, you know, TikTok stars there. I don't know. I mean, I don't know how Vogue gets by as an entertainment media outlet without acknowledging influencer culture. And I think that Kim Kardashian is sort of the pinnacle of that or has been. Yeah. You know, she was the first sort of mega influencer celebrity. But I think that what it does, I think that it's important to remember like, let's not, whatever it does to Vogue, you know, Vogue is a brand and decline. I like no matter how you slice it. But I think that the bigger impact is for the stars themselves because when you go to the MacAla, when Anna Winters choosing you, you still get that fashion world credibility. What does that lead to? That leads to lucrative endorsement deals. It leads to more photoshoots, which could maybe lead to more lucrative endorsement deals. Maybe it leads to you starting your own fashion line. Like Kim and her sisters have done so many different brands. And she obviously has scams, which is worth several billion dollars now. And also it leads to so much content for yourself. Like now that we own, we all own our own channels, you see everyone monetizing the MacAla also for their own worth. Like they might not be paid to go, and they're not paying for their outfits or their, you know, shoes or jewelry. But then they're actually going to make money also from what they're producing from it. I don't know, though, Amy, like I feel like maybe we are going to get to go soon. Like she is really loosening the reins. I mean, she used to be so anti-cardashian there. Then now we got, even Chloe gets to go sometimes as she wants. Like she's really, she's much more democratic. It seems like in these, in the new age. Well, the Kardashians, according to one of my MacAla sources that I interviewed for Anna, the biography of the Kardashians used to call and try to go, and they would be denied. And then one year Anna, someone say she caved. Well, didn't have to do it. And Kim went, but Kim was with Kanye. Yeah, who was big deal who was connected to Anna. May still, I don't know, was at the time. And I think that helped grease the wheels for for Kim to go. With Kim first, when she was pregnant, she wore that floral Givenchy dress with the gloves. Do you remember? Of course. People said she looks like a couch. That was like the meme the next day. It was like she was like a floral like Chins couch. Yeah. So then she went in that she was on the cover of Oak with Kanye picked to their wedding. So and in the same thing happened actually with Lauren Sanchez Bezos. She was in Vogue on the cover of Pegger wedding or she went to the MacAla and then she was on the cover of a Pegger wedding. Meanwhile, that is proof that money cannot buy style or influence because I remember Kim's outfits every year. Like it's like burned into my mind. I could blindfold me and I'll sketch you what she looked like at that gala. But Lauren Bezos, I have no freaking idea with that girl wore. I don't think she went last year with the before and she wore a dress was like a black strapless Oscar De La Renta dress with like shattered glass on it. Oh yeah, and she was just snatched. Like her whole thing is just being like, I can't breathe. Like I'm so skinny. Yeah, it's like as you could use the words. Yeah, it's not like a corseted. Yeah, corseted. Yeah. But do you think that they should not have those people there? No, I think that the Kardashians have to be there. They are the most impactful. But I think that someone like Alex Oral is very interesting because she clearly sets the culture. Her brand just did a million dollars in sales in its first five minutes. Like that's not something to ignore. And she's been on a vote cover with her sister. But in the same way, she's not fashion in the way. And maybe, you know, maybe from their relationship with obviously Kanye was a turning point for the Kardashians because he then made them so much more fashionable. Because he was already in the world. Yeah, 100% and also wanted to be. And throughout all of Kim's ugly clothing and then like put her in this upper echelon and now she's like, okay, everything has to be archival. And I have, you know, the best stylist in the world. And you know, it all matters so much more to her now. She's become really educated and I think passionate about in her own right. But then someone like Alex Oral, she's not a high fashion. She's really just like She markets to the masses and while she's while she's going to wear the like new Saint Laurent heel and in the way that like every girl is. It's not like she's pulling out these crazy looks in the way that Kim was. And so I wonder, I really do, I think she probably will be included. - Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised. I think that would make sense. And I think for her, as with Kim, it would be great for her to go because that still opens the door for her opportunities in fashion the same way that Kim, having that fashion world credibility. I think that really only helps her with skims. And it's not a luxury price point. - No, but with any influencer brand, you're selling the idea of the influencer. It's like that you see how stylish they are perceived to be in the world. - Yeah, when you see, you always have to ask yourself, would you buy this without any label on it? Like a car, are you buying that car? Because it says BMW or are you buying it? Because you actually know about the horsepower and all the different gears and all the different features. Like most people are just buying it because it's BMW. And the same thing has to do with influencer marketing. - Yeah. - You don't actually know what's going, you don't actually know what's in skims. Does anyone actually know how much cotton is in the bra or anything? No, they're not comparing that to a different bra. - They're cotton in the bra. - So I'm saying, most of it is pretty flammable, but you're really just looking at it as a gateway to maybe feeling like Kim. - Okay, guys, when I first started Mrs. Dow Jones, I was selling a lot of merch and it was a business idea that I was sitting on and then I set up Shopify and it made it so easy to get started 'cause they truly have everything you need to start selling and you're ready from day one. Including the moment your first customer is ready to pay, Shopify checkout helps more customers finish their purchases and when they come back, their details are already saved. So it's just one tap and they're done. And that's because Shopify handles the setup and the checkout so you have more time to focus on growing your business and the tools to do it. Shopify has been so helpful in Mrs. Dow Jones and making the business more accessible and I just really loved using them when I had that store. 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So go to AquaTrue.com now for 20% off your purifier using code financialt and AquaTrue even comes with a 30 day best tasting water guarantee. That's AquaTrue.com, aQUATRU.com promo code FINAN C-I-A-L-T-E-A. Overall though, like you've given us a lot of numbers. We know that it's got in like so much more expensive. The media impact value is crazy. I personally do think that there is a lot of value for brands to be part of it. I know you're sort of on the out. But and you could-- No, I just don't know. I really don't know because I think it's impossible to quantify it because the numbers that I've seen are coming from companies that Kanye asked invested in or it's coming from Kanye and asked itself and those companies have every reason to make the numbers seem really super high. You don't know how to trust. I think we just don't know what it's worth. And like actually the people who I would trust on that issue are people who work at the brands. I want to know how they think about it. Like how they think about what they want to get out of their marketing dollars is what they get out of their marketing dollars keeping Anna Winter in Vogue happy and on their side. Is that worth it? Is what they get out of their marketing dollars? You know, having some amazing model or celebrity look fabulous and they're close. Like I just-- I really don't know. And you also would-- I would love to see the data of like a brand that's not known who gots to go because you know like Lewis Hamilton bought a table and brought all of these black designers. And I think that they were like lesser known. And I would love to see like does that actually drive sales, you know, or is that just like a like-- how does it actually impact someone who isn't like a gap or a common client or someone like in the culture if you are part of it? Right. And then for those brands, like if you are a gap or an age to now, which like sometimes they have their red card numbers right, what are they get, you know, what are they getting out of that? And they probably have more money than a lot of brand, you know, lesser known brands, lesser known designer brands to go and make a splash. But yeah, so I just think it's really hard to say. But overall, like where do you stand on it? Like are you bullish on the Met Gala? I think the big question is what happens when Anna really steps aside? Like Chloe Malamstar, she does not have the risk to pull this off. But I do think it sort of stands on its own at this point. Well, I don't know how much Chloe is getting trained to run the event. I do think that Anna is a force and has made it really, really successful and has enabled it to bring in the tens of millions that it is now bringing in. And I don't know for my reporting that Chloe is being trained to take that on and to do that. And you know, I think it's tough. I think it's a lot of politics. Keeping one celebrity happy must be a nightmare. That alone so many. A lot alone, hundreds of star hop, or many people are going. So I think Anna has figured it out. She does it very effectively. This year is actually a really big deal for her. And she's not big on like, you know, talking about herself. But this year's a big deal for her because the event opens the Anna Winter galleries in the media. About chills. And that money, those galleries are made possible by the money that she has raised. And that's why they're named for her. So this should be like, you know, her crowning achievement, having planned this event since 1995, as it was described to me by sources, you know, it's sort of the metaphorical lifting of the costume institute out of the basement where it has sort of historically been relegated, you know, to these new, this new space that it has within the museum, like a really prominent physical space. So it's a big deal. With Vogue, it basically, although it existed before Anna, it really is all predicated on her good taste. Like it's basically a brand built around like this one woman's approval that we've deemed extraordinary. And I buy into it. Like I saw her the other week at a play. And I was like, gasping to like be in the same room as her. She looks like AI, doesn't she? And she's like, she's so famous. Like when you know, and you see people that you like know their image, well, she gets it done every day. But her hair is so perfect in her clothes, yeah. All of this exists from her image and from her point of view. And so when you talk about Vogue as a legacy brand, where she's now trying to pass it on to the next generation, it's almost like succession. Like how realistic is that really that anyone will be able to, like, no, uphold that when like there's not another person in the culture, so singularly responsible for what she can, what's not she. Yeah, exactly. I think this is why it's really tough. What happens to Vogue without her? I mean, she's still there. She's still overseeing it. So it's not like it's not her Vogue anymore. Even though she appointed Chloe Malhead of editorial content. But yeah, so I don't know. I think that the future of the Met Gala hinges on what happens after she leaves and how the succession is handled there, because we don't know. I almost feel like the Met Gala will survive longer than Vogue will. Yeah. I think so. I mean, Connie and Asas we discussed has invested interest in staying involved in Vogue or whoever's running Vogue remaining the chief planner. So yeah, we'll see. I mean, I have been told that Anna is training Chloe in all aspects of the job, which would include planning the Met Gala. But I've also heard from some Matt sources that they haven't really seen that. So I just don't really know. You know her very intimately. No one has researched her as well as you. She probably know more about her than she knows about herself. I think we forget a lot about ourselves. Yeah, so it's like we don't know. Yeah, knowing all of that, like what would you say about her legacy? She wants to be remembered for her philanthropy. I think she will be remembered more for who she is as this sort of Miranda priestly-esque figure. Thank you so much. Thank you. Amy, this was so fun. I could talk to you for hours. You are so brilliant. [BLANK_AUDIO] [BLANK_AUDIO] Imagine setting your makeup, then forgetting it's even theirs. Meet new groupie setting mist from Mabelie, New York. Sheldon mist technology locks in your look for up to 24 hours, with flexible all-day-gum v-grip. No tightness, no stickiness, no residue, just plump, dewy hydrated skin that still feels like your skin. Try new groupie setting mist from Mabelie, New York.