The Moment Automation Changed My Business Forever with Oskar Kramarz

Configuration of AI Agents is, I would say, 10-20% The other of, like, 80-90% is how you configure the tools AutoCromarts is a automation developer known for his work in building apps, APIs, and business process automations Not only has he helped multi-businesses thrive the use of AI He also teaches hundreds of thousands of people through his YouTube channel Today he's revealing his groundbreaking process that will change the way that you approach your automation There are a lot of things that can go wrong Agents knows when to use this tool So basically what I presented is workflow that performs autonomous scraping Agents was able to navigate, for example, through terms of service, privacy policy, contact us, pages, and so on To basically retrieve the profile of the company, physical addresses, email addresses, and so on So for those are, like, a very specific problems But probably every business has You now have a way you can simply just ask AI And then it reports back to you exactly what you use in what use case The world is full of those use cases that are just waiting to be automated How do you bridge the gap with that? Do you guys have, like, a kickoff call? Do you, like, set up systems? Or what's your typical pattern for interacting with other developers A part of the team that may not have innate incompetence? Oscar, what's up, buddy? Welcome to the podcast Hi, Dylan, good to see you We got connected at the We Are Developers Conference You came down and you did a presentation that had some amazing workflow use cases Can you talk to me a little bit about what you presented at the We Are Developers Conference? Basically what I presented is workflow that performs autonomous scraping So basically what I did is I've created a puppeteer script Puppeteer is, like, a framework for a catalyst browser Where you can, like, programmatically create your own flows Like to click this, click that, extract this information So basically what I did is I've created the script that Yeah, retrieve the text from the page like a full content And the array of URLs on this page So basically I put it back to the agent So I connected this as a tool And agent was able to autonomously select the website To actually retrieve information And in this case, in We Are Developers It was agent for retrieving contact details So basically our agent was able to navigate, for example, through terms of service Privacy policy, contact us, pages, and so on To basically retrieve the profile of the company Physical addresses, email addresses, and so on, so forth So yeah, puppeteer allows you to essentially Have the AI be able to open up a web browser Go to a certain web page Look at the contact details of the user Be able to go and say, OK, this is the email from the website This is what they do, what they're about And then you can feed that into some sort of lead-jent system, is that correct? Yeah, basically puppeteer in this case Was actually responsible only for retrieving text and links That's all on the site of puppeteer So yeah, the rest was made by Nathan, workflow, and agent And for this, can you talk to me about the types of users that would use something like this system? All the people in that are very into a lead-jent So basically imagine you have, I will say, spreadsheet of hundreds of websites That you want to simply scrape What you do in this case is you simply create like a web hook With which connects you to this workflow And yeah, you extract this data, right? So in this case, it's like super simple and this matter of like seconds minutes To extract data from the page, right? So yeah, lead-jent people But the best part of this workflow is that in case of we are developers We extracted contact details But you can adjust it since you have access to the content of the page and links To retrieve other information So let's say you are very into such applications, right? And you want to monitor pricing of those apps So what you can do is basically adjust your agent To go through pricing pages of those apps And start it into structured form In like spreadsheet, database, or whatever How would you imagine a user being able to take this to the next step? Would they be doing like DM reachouts? Would they do email messages? So imagine there's a SaaS product and that they have a certain pricing model You say, hey, I can help you increase your conversions with SaaS And you do that via a cold email How would NADN take this to the next level in order to take those leads And then turn those leads that you've generated into maybe book meetings or something There are like a lot of ways to do this Like the one you mentioned at least is like cold mailing, right? If you want to create a like a campaign Definitely is possible with an item What you basically need to do is like just connect the SMTP server Or something like this to like send the campaigns out, right? There are a lot of other options, the one of them, the crazy one that I came up with For example, send like traditional mail Since you have like access to the physical addresses Why not to use AI to create some kind of ledger Or something like this Definitely maybe not like I would say a most modern way to do the marketing But definitely doable I've actually heard of those services And it's like Robo handwriting That you can hook up to an automation It'll actually send a hand, a Robo handwritten mail out to you Okay, that's cool, I could see it because you're getting through this There's a lot of different busy channels I know emails are really busy channel, right? And so maybe this kind of a lumpy mail could be sent out That's really neat It seems like a lot of these things that you focus on Are real practical business use cases for business owners Or other people that are in business And this lead gen scraping gathering and reach out is one system Is there other, what are the other popular workflows Or automation that business owners might be interested in I can say from my own perspective Because since I don't run like workflows Which is my company is like a one part of my activity The other one is family owned company That is completely not software related And it's actually the way I how I started doing workflows And what I do in this company actually And I automate a lot of stuff So I for example created like a workflow For I would say currency calculation Which was like a super interesting story And this is actually how I started with NA10 Because we are using in this like non software company family owned business CRM system Which basically is like super closed And we ask the developers to create like a super simple function To do multiplication to do the currency exchange calculation And yeah, they did they gave us like a super high price for this Which we were not willing to pay So I decided to use NA10 at that time to create like a own bought for this Yeah, this is one of the use cases What's so funny about that too is because like I just went out to Berlin for the weird developers conference And I track my expenses and working within it in And one of the things that was I was like oh man these are in euros And I'm only doing the US dollars And I'm like now I need to now I need a way to be able to track those and convert those over So I could actually see that workflow means useful even just for myself Yeah, for this thing that you mentioned actually I've also created a workflow So there is a super cool open source software that is called actual budget And it's it can be used for example for home budgeting right So you record your expenses and so on So what I did some time ago is like for my more personal use case It's but it can be also used definitely for business too As you do basically the photo of their received right And it's being parsed by Lama parsed And all the data is being extracted and put into directly to this system So yeah also super cool use case both for a personal I would say budget And yeah for the business ones too It's funny because you talked about how you got into NA10 You said there was a service out there that was really expensive And you're like I don't know if I want to pay that What have you seen as like the common ways that people have gotten in NA10 What's been that entry point? Price is definitely one one of those factors This is how I got into NA10 Because I've actually started like automating things a few years ago I think it was close around like Corona times something like this And first I started like with Zapier which I didn't like And make which was like a short story for me At the time it was called IntegralMata as far as I remember And yeah eventually I sticked with NA10 And for me it was like crazy that I don't need to pay actually Such high amount of money for each I would say execution for each item That is being processed by the software So this is like a number one thing The second one is definitely flexibility And possibility to do the things in the user interface So basically what I do a lot of my clients do Is basically we create the workflow as developers on the advanced level But then we hand it over to not especially I would say technical people That can still monitor it And like eventually do the very basic bug fixing on their own When it's something like I would say more difficult Comes into game then developers is definitely developer is definitely necessary So you're saying is that like in terms of services one thing you do is You said it may be a complex workflow or something that solves a problem And then you make some sort of front-end interface That allows the user or the company to be able to step in And whether it's execute the workflows or see the output of them Or something like that is that correct? Yes, yes this is like the number one thing So this is when we have clients when I have clients that Want to make the workflow accessible or also for non-technical people The other part is when I cooperate with internal developer's team So this is a bit more easier for me because I know there's always someone Within the company that can like my performance or something like this Yeah, it seems to be I don't know if you experience whenever you work with a new company Is there's always like someone on the team that has some sort of developer role Or is interested in it but they don't have a lot of competence with in it in And you have to bridge the gap between what they know and what you're doing So for example, maybe there's a sales force integrator But they don't really know a lot about in it and so you have to have this handoff Between what you do and then what they do like How do you bridge the gap with that? Do you guys have like a kickoff call? Do you like set up systems or what's your typical pattern for interacting with other Say, developers a part of a team that may not have in it in competence? So basically it works often both ways I would say they need to learn something about the Nathan And I need to learn something about their systems So yeah, especially when people are quite cooperative It's quite easy actually to do because yeah, now with this we have a lot of content When it comes to Nathan so I can always redirect for example to official tutorials To show them how it works Or create like a schedule like a quick call where we jump into this and they show The basics is like super easy to do On my part of course there is like often going through documentation of their like CRM This is the like the applications they are doing and so on too Actually we have so we can be on the same page and start the work Got it so there's a little bit of education but because there's so much documentation out there Whether it's YouTube videos or a straight in it and documentation You can say hey, this is what in it and here's what it looks like You can watch a couple of these videos I can walk you through some of these things And let me map out a bit of your system so that I understand exactly what you guys are doing And then we bridge the gap between what your current systems are To what in it and can do and then how to interact with it Absolutely, it actually works the way you said it And when you talk about these dashboards of these front and interfaces I know that you primarily a lot of things that you focus on Is more advanced use cases with the in it in and then making these dashboards accessible to your clients Can you talk to me about maybe a couple of use cases that you see businesses using this system for? I can give you like a super cool example from my family own business right where I used And they then also by can't and create a like a front end Application like front end dashboard user interface for this So yeah, this is like a super niche business So have you ever visited like Brewery for example? Oh yeah Brewery yeah, yeah, sure So there are like a lot of tanks there, right? So where the beer is stored and they have those like doors that are used for inspection, right? And cleaning and so on So basically our family own business, our family business sells this kind of stuff like those doors, right? So not are mounted into tanks and for each of those doors You need to actually add that ceiling right for this door and they are from various materials So we had a problem because a lot of people have been asking us about those materials What kind of material they should use for the specific chemical because not only for beer, right? It can be used for water for I don't know any other chemicals like acetone and so on And on the other hand, we have the database of table-resistance, right, for those materials So this is like a very specific use case where I used N10 because I've created like workflow where I see the database with the information that we had about the resistance for those ceilings And I've created an AI agent basically that is retrieving the specific material according to the use case that a user is describing And it worked well for me as an internal use case I would say as an internal chatbot because I was able to connect it to telegram for example and say hey what kind of material for this and that this kind of chemical is like suitable, right? in this temperature and it worked very well But we decided in company to make a step further And what I've created is basically a simple user interface in xjs where I connected it to workflow So basically user has like a very pretty form where they can insert the chemical temperature and so on and so forth So basically like a very strict data that we use to actually generate what kind of ceiling is the best for this use case, right? Yeah, that's a great one of the examples So essentially what you said is that you don't always know what materials will match up to what you can use for these for your business So what I love about this is you started with a problem like we had this problem I'm not always sure what exactly materials match up to the doors that I need to have and what needs to be put together So you essentially created a chatbot that gives you easy to find information and so you don't need to go through and look through all the materials and cross-reference them and see if it could be so what lines up You now have a way you can simply just ask AI and then it reports back to you exactly what to use in what use case Yes and the very cool thing about this is of course it's using our internal database as mentioned but AI also is what I've noticed is good when it comes to applying the specific materials for the use case So when we don't have something specific the specific use case in our database AI will recommend from all knowledge I would say So this is also cool for us because we have actually extended our knowledge here, right? Yeah, so you're using the I would say the internal knowledge base of the company and then you're extending on that knowledge base with AI to go outwards and say okay, this isn't actually fitting into the system but we do know from the world's knowledge or the AI's world's knowledge that here's a couple of materials we would recommend for this specific use case That's awesome, yes exactly You mentioned also with I think it was next year's might have been what you're talking about I don't know if you ever use, I know Figma just has an MCP right now I believe that you can hook up to they have an MCP so you can use NADN and the Figma MCP to actually create websites I don't know if you're familiar with that at all No, I haven't heard about this, definitely you need to drop me a link after I recall here Dude, I just found out the technology is moving so fast and so when someone else comes out with it, I have a friend who is an NADN developer and he was showing me, did you know if Figma can do this? So he was building and generating websites with Figma and the MCP with NADN and I thought that was really neat so I don't know if you knew that Do you do anything with MCPs at all? Currently I'm working with one client that is using like implementing MCPs like heavily so basically I cannot tell too much about it but what we do here basically is we create also a kind of dashboard for agents where most of the agents are actually connected to NADN and what we also do is we have, I would say, the custom coded in-gen which we connect directly to MCPs servers in NADN so basically it's super cool especially in terms of like delegation of specific, I would say MCPs so this user for example from employee from marketing has access to this specific MCPs and those can be connected this is like a super cool because we have a custom dashboard custom like in-gen for AI connections I would say custom framework and on the other hand we have MCPs servers so basically users can connect all in credentials like super fast and yeah it works really well So like you have job-specific or domain-specific MCPs that certain individuals get assigned to so for marketing there might be MCPs for maybe lead generation or creating some sort of social media content versus operational, our operation person who might have access to maybe some sort of MCP that hooks up to whatever plaid that you can get financial records and so you make them domain-specific and then they can have access to the tools that they need to move faster Yes absolutely and the also cool thing is not to for example users can connect their own calendars for this so yeah it's also like interacting that way so both I would say the job that needs to be done and the other I was a personal data from like those calendars in books and so on so yeah super cool love that speaking of MCPs I mean there's a lot of AI tools and features that are coming out very rapidly within it and we know it's we move very quickly what are the features that you've seen come out whether recently that are really helpful or really useful that have come out recently from in it in I haven't tested yet unfortunately but I suppose it can be super useful of course agent as tools so we can easily on one canvas create like multi-agents I think this is something a lot of people have been like waiting for so I definitely need to give it a try MCPs definitely useful cool feature and something that I appreciate probably the most from recent updates I've also underlined it in one of my LinkedIn posts is evaluations so this is like a locally I think one of the most important features in like recent month like in the change look of any time let's look at these one-by-one though you talked about these multi-agent features so previously what one thing you had to do in order to create a multi-agent was you had to create an in-and workflow that had an AI agent and then one of the tools had to be accessing another workflow and inside that workflow you had you had an agent and then the output would be sending that back up to the original workflow now with this multi-agent feature you have the ability to create multiple agents inside of one workflow so that you can see everything at once and they can all interact together and do you have any ideas around what you want to do with a system or workflow like that not yet probably or maybe other way I have a ton of ideas because I have a whole list of the agents that I want to build and a lot of like products that I want to build and so on so forth so I have always for that the problems I don't know which one to start for this currently I'm like in this specific moment I'm focused on e-commerce use case in this family owned business which doesn't really like heavily on AI agents at the moment but yeah I think it's a matter of a few weeks where we are going to implement some of those features too yeah and no one thing I like about the multi-agent is that sometimes it's hard to keep everything in your head when you're building out in workflows there's sometimes so many working parts that if you have all these sub agents and things like that you're trying to track what's everything happening so if you can see in one bird's eye view inside the workflow like all of the agents moving together and you can see them interacting you don't need to hop around and check out the executions of multiple workflows you can see everything operate all at once which I know is a really cool ability to debug and track things so one of my favorite things about in it and is the ability to see the executions happening real time and what's being processed because sometimes with code you don't know what's going on you have to see what you have to have some sort of like trace back to what's going on I love that new feature coming out I haven't played with you yet but I just did a I just did a meetup last week where I saw a gentleman show that to me and I was like oh that's right I need to get on that I haven't done it yet but it looks super useful to be honest like multi agents are super important because of the reason that you mention so debugging right when it comes to AI agents there you have sometimes then can throw a lot of errors right because they are not deterministic so that's why I mentioned like if all the machines are like super important part for me to make workflows actually good and production ready right this is like a super important step for me and yeah having like now when you build the multi agents and having them on one canvas where you can track it in one spot and you don't need to click like through tabs to go to separate workflows to see what actually happened and errors when it comes to agents on development states happen like very frequently a lot so definitely it helps it helps to keep the flow what do you think in terms of you said about being production ready because it's easy I want to say easy but a lot of people make fun multi agent systems that aren't production ready right they're cool concepts they need little use cases but they don't actually cross the chasm from neat little use case to actually being something that could work at scale or become production ready do you have a process or a system for bringing these multi agents or any types of systems into becoming production ready to be honest at this moment I don't have production ready multi agent system I haven't implemented such a thing yet of course for me personally I did such such a things and I have like a testing phase in company like one or two probably I wouldn't call them at this point production ready when it comes to the agent workflows where I have like several agents one after another then definitely I have created such workflows and for me it's always like a matter of like time spent on sometimes it can be frustrating because you spend so much time on this one single node which is AI agent and you like tweak the prompt and what I personally believe is what is super important like a configuration of AI agent but this is my personal opinion configuration of AI agent is I would say 10 to 100% all the whole work the other like 80 90% is how you configure the tools and this is like super important part because when you especially when you have a very custom tool for your I don't know CRM or something like this where you do even like a theoretically simple HTTP request there are a lot of things that can go wrong there so you definitely want to configure it properly so actually agents knows when to use this tool right so I put a lot of effort to configure the tools probably and I definitely then spend also a lot of time for the for example for system prompt and so on to and run evaluations to see what works what doesn't whether I should use the large large model or I can go for example with GPD menu yeah got it so you're saying like setting up the general workflow I'll say architecture right so you have an agent they have tools like for example Slack Gmail Google Calendar sales force CRM or whatnot that's just the initial 20% get going but when you talk about configuring the tools what you're talking about is like the Slack like maybe making a custom HTTP request for a tool or putting the prompts in place when you're talking about getting these configuring right where you spend 80% of your time making sure that it is actually operating the way that you want what is your process for making sure or any trip ups or mistakes or common patterns that you've seen that happen that makes these tools not function the way that you want them I think the number one mistake is like of course it depends on the agent but limiting myself when it comes to the queries that can come in into the agent because even when I run like evaluations right I have for example the queries that I have and the response that I want to like have from the agent right for those specific queries but when you have created those agents that you created those evaluations like perfectly right you eventually want to give it to the end user and you are it's completely unexpected what end user can actually put in into the agent right so what I do on the regular basis is I try to cover it up with the end users or at least with people who know how the agents should behave and what queries can go into the agent to see what can go wrong it's definitely not possible in many cases I wouldn't say it's impossible but in many cases it's not possible to cover like all edge cases but we can definitely do our best to make our agent high quality yeah let's run through this a little bit because I think this is actually important step one right you figure out the use case the problem you're trying to solve right another step is you figure out okay what are the systems or tools that they're currently using like Slack gmail or whatnot you then build out the workflow with let's just say a single agent in place you make sure that it is configured properly right so you have the right prompts in place for the use case right you have the tools configured properly for each of them to make sure that the agent knows how to call those tools properly and then the another thing you're talking about is making sure that the queries whatever the end user is going to be using what they're being put in place they're actually using the queries properly so they know how to request the agent the agent to be able to make certain requests whether they're pulling all the emails out or adding things to the Google calendar and it's okay these are the types of queries and the types of prompting you can do for the agent and then it sounds like that is the general flow and then on the backside might be an AI evaluation system or some sort of pattern to make sure that the not only is the human asking the right types of queries but the with the AI evaluation they're actually the agent is responding in the way that is expected to give the user the results that they want is am I giving this correctly or am I missing something? yeah this is actually the flow that I'm using it may be like sounds quite general especially for people who are more into the coding coding sphere because basically what we do here is like a testing right so we give the user instructions on how to use the agent right and yeah we want to cover as many edge cases as possible of course I would say reasonable borders right so yeah that's the flow and when you talk about giving the edge cases it sounds like it's updating the system prompt or maybe giving a few shot prompts for the agent in and of itself so you can see these are the types of requests that we want to have someone from the marketing team be able to say and then we also say oh mr. marketing sir this is the types of queries you make and then with the system prompt check oh here's some edge cases that we want to take do you do then train the system prompt or do you give a few shot prompt examples inside of the agent in and of itself or is there anything else that you do to make sure that they speak well to each other of course this is my approach but I'm not sure if it's like the best but what I want to do always is to have a clear path on what went wrong right for for specific for example execution right so since agent are not deterministic for edge cases or for example for errors I want to have a strictly deterministic path on what went wrong right in an agent is super cool because I can for example for errors right I can for create like a specific path like error path from AI agent where I don't know I can call it like I don't know send the message to my telegram that something went wrong in the workflow right or I can put this specific workflow execution to database and examine it later so for this kind of cases I want to collect them as much as possible and then analyze what actually went wrong so I can go through history of the agent and see how the conversation went whether it was for example I don't know sometimes we have this I don't know open AI outage right and it was like the thing on the model site or whether the query was not clear enough for the agent so yeah those are the things I prefer to do so basically collect those errors or not necessarily errors but also cases where agent didn't answer like correctly when where it couldn't answer right so I can after the agent I can do a simple chain to recognize whether actually agent provided an answer or not in case of answer has not been provided then I also can collect this right yeah so what you're saying is that there's you can always have that inside the settings of the agent or the output say always error on output which creates another path or another route inside of the in a in workflow and on that new path not only can you fade in what the error status is you can do a real-time feedback to notify you that oh my god open AI is outage happened yet again and it's on them or for some reason there's some sort of issue inside of in a day and that you need to be aware of so that you can one respond immediately because there's nothing more frustrating than having an automation go out on real live business use cases but then also you can maybe add that into some sort of spreadsheet or database that lets you be able to track all of these issues to see is this the one off that happens one out of a thousand times or is this something that's consistently having over time that might take a priority status for you to fix yes exactly a hundred percent I love it I love it when people want to get started businesses want to get started in and start automating some of their processes what do you see as ways for them to get started what are the patterns for them to get up and running how do they figure out what's our first step from going I don't have any kind of automation in my business to really fully getting up and automated so that it can save a bunch of time so first of all the problem that I see is what I should automate so basically I will see the at the same place so what I've decided to do is to start identifying the potential problems in my company as mentioned for example with those ceilings and the apps for ceilings or currency exchange integration something like this those are like a very specific problems that probably every business has so if not business then you personally also have some kind of thing that you can automate for example those parsing receipts that I've mentioned and putting it to actual budget I think the world is full of those kind of use cases that are just waiting to be automated so identifying them is like a number one thing one thing first any business owner can do is start to list out problems okay what are the things in my business that cause the most time the most friction the most manual labor what are the things that I'm maybe not paying attention to like responding my leads in less than three minutes or whatever it is but just make a list of the problems of your business and go okay which one of these would give me maximum value and then maybe cross reference that list of here's my top problems to here's what's easy to be automated and then we can create that nexus point between those two points to be able to be automated is that correct yeah definitely we can do this that way you're going to say something else please continue on the next point yeah and then what I would simply do is when I haven't any contact with any time before definitely go into like tutorials for example those official or to be to creators for example like my channel and yeah just learn as much as possible and I would say a lot of people also are trying to delegate creating workflows to two external tools like asking chat GPT to create workflow for them I think the better way is to learn by yourself and try to connect those nodes those pieces together it always brings so much satisfaction and I think you can learn a lot more along the way yeah the prompt text to workflow it's it's great for kind of zero to oh my god this feels amazing but it might you need to have some sort of at least semi-technical skills to be able to say know what's going on because if you do that out the gate if it breaks or if it just doesn't do what you want you won't actually know the core foundational skill sets of how to solve any of these little bugs because in the world of whether it's automation or writing code one comma can break the whole system and it can be really demoralizing over time and so I totally 100% agree with that and so getting up and running forget the business use cases go through the process of solving those one thing at a time one of the ways that you talked about this was maybe going and looking at YouTube tutorials as one piece for scene okay someone else already solved this for your own channel what have you seen as videos that have performed very well or what are the ones that you see as the trending video content on your channel that people are really find a lot of value from watching so just for the record at the moment as we are recording this I haven't uploaded any video for few months now I'm a bit retired but hopefully not for so long but what I see in the statistics actually is top trending video of mine is the web series videos this is like a super basic tutorial on how to use web hooks so what it basically shows is we have a lot of new users coming into NITAN that are looking for like a basic information on how to create workflows and how to connect them with external apps so this is most probably why they are watching this video so heavily yeah it makes a ton of sense because I mean part of the automation essentially when we talk about automation it's merely moving data across different applications and being able to transform and manipulate that data in some sort of way and HTTP requests and web hooks are the ways that you can send data out of NITAN if you want to call that to external applications whether that's a say a type form or any of these other applications they're out there so you can send data out with HTTP requests you can bring data in with web hooks and then with that then you can take it and manipulate it through using NITAN. Exactly love it. What advice would you give to anybody that have seen a lot of these videos on YouTube and they want to get started and they're just trying to figure out okay what do I do? Experiment, experiment heavily this is what I do on a daily basis and don't limit myself and I recommend also to our listeners to our viewers not to limit themselves to basically try to put the boundaries and build try to build things with NITAN. So I personally at this point I can build probably like I've built a lot of workflows and I can I think I can build a lot still but just I don't know two years ago I was at that level of advance and creating like the workflows that I create on a daily basis was like a struggle for me and just because I did this on a regular basis and try I was trying new things I was curious about those things I was able to simply elevate and yeah learn a lot of stuff along the way and this is actually that was part of my workflow because I've tried to do something I wasn't able to find a easy way to do this and I was trying to find a way to solve this problem and then I was recording a video about this that was for example for PDF generation I was not able to find a service that I could self-host by myself to generate PDF documents and then I found Gutenberg Gutenberg is basically like a service that you can use to generate PDF documents or from HTML like a source code right so you can generate like invoices or something like this and I was struggling with this had this problem I solved this and eventually I recorded video about this and I see a lot of people are appreciating it so yeah this is my workflow and I recommend it to you to explore and experimenting playing with NADN scene what's possible and you can level up really quickly talk about two years from being struggling to give the high level competency with NADN so what's cool about it is that you can get up and go in pretty quickly with NADN and start to really get some skills that you can then serve you for any of these problems that come up in the future and then what's really cool and I think about content creators too is that you have a personal pain or a problem you're like man how do I do this I got this problem then you solve it and then you naturally want to share it with the world like oh my god anybody else who has this problem I just want to tell you do this Gutenberg or whatever the things might be this if you have this problem just watch this video and I want you to think it's one of the great things about content creators that are really educators helping people solve the painful problem they're like it was my pain please nobody else have the same pain yeah exactly and this is actually the power of the community I think and I also recommend to connect with other community members whether there are like whether there is like official NADN community or private communities within NADN that popped out recently a lot of them just connect with those people and I think there is like nothing better when eventually you meet in real life like for example like we did in NADN Fest which was super cool people would not suggest a few days ago or only avatar for you meet them personally and you can talk yeah nothing feels better than this it's so fun yeah you have this can I completely agree it's the power of automation the power of community coming together and then you meet up and you're like hey man I'm working on this thing how do you get this to do that and then we're all kind of like working on problems together and solving each other's issues you're like oh I've already solved that you use this Gutenberg thing or whatever the things might be because that is really the power of sending like the automation platform brings all of these different applications together by the community brings all these people together and it allows us to group solve so that we can accelerate our knowledge learn fast learn smarter learn better which I absolutely love absolutely absolutely 100% is there anything else you'd like to let people know about before you tell them how to give the whole review is there anything else you'd like to share anything else you'd like to let people know about any messages you want to give to people before you can tell them having to find you just build stuff this is like something that that I would say this is like my life domain building things and yeah I recommend it to you to build stuff and share with people share what you are working on and you will see how many good you will you will have in return cool and if people want to find your YouTube channel or get a whole review how do they do that I have YouTube channel called workflows basically when you're typing in Oscar and Nathan Oscar with K in YouTube you definitely see one of my videos I'm also on LinkedIn which is Oscar Kramas Oscar Kramas you can also pronounce it so yeah those are like two channels where I probably the most active. Oscar it's been an honor and pleasure my friend thank you so much for sharing your love your passion your knowledge with Nathan and I will see you on the other side my friend. Oh yeah thank you very much for hosting me and yeah have a great time. Take care now bye. Cheers.