The Mismatch’s AI Teams

[MUSIC] >> Welcome to The Miss Vax, I'm Chris Vernon. The join of me see us every week from TheRigger.com's Dave Jakovie, Jakovie. >> Vernon, we are so close to NBA basketball, and I'm really excited about this little project. A little homework that we give to this podcast. >> So what we decided is the season is starting next week, and we are going to be doing our predictions for the season right before it begins, because we've got to see everything play out. You don't know who could get injured, what kind of news could break before the season plays out. So you want to do it at the last minute. >> This episode is presented by Sam's Club. During the holidays, everyone's in a club. The last minute gift givers club. The cool ones club, the food coma club, whatever holiday club you're in, Sam's club is the club that helps you pull it off. Need to get a meal on the table, onto two hours, done, shopping for the brands they want, like Dyson and Lego, without blowing your budget, check and check. Sam's club helps you make the most of the holidays. Come join us, Sam's Club. >> So in lieu of doing our predictions, which we'll do next week right before the season starts, we are going to do our all interesting teams. We have both put together rosters of players that are interesting to us going into the 26-27 season. And the project was we had to do a point guard shooting guard, small forward, power forward and center, and then three bench guys. You want me to start? >> You always start, bro, no? >> I'm going to start. I'll start with my point guard. >> I found your first couple things, number one, we share a notes app to do the rundown. You erase some of my entries and move them to the bottom for reasons I can't understand. I have to sabotage, number one, and number two, all of yours are in all caps. It's like you're screaming these names at me, but I was really, I thought that your point guard selection was very interesting, who is your all interesting starting point guard? >> My point guard selection is Emmanuel Quickly. >> People don't talk about Emmanuel Quickly at all. >> Ever? >> Never. >> Never. >> It never comes up. >> No one's ever brought Emmanuel Quickly. >> And again. >> And again. >> And I am attempting to be interesting here. So here's what I will say. The reason I put Emmanuel Quickly on here is because I think the Raptors have the opportunity to be awesome. If they get a semblance of last year's Kawaii Leonard, who was easily one of the top 10 players in the NBA last season, and we know that the entire off season was spent talking about Kawaii Leonard getting his former team in an amount of trouble that has never, it's unprecedented, the amount of trouble that they have gotten it to. There also then led to a lot of wondering, like, hey man, was he like really injured that whole time? Was he just like king of the castle? He played whatever he wanted to, and if the checks clear, then he was playing, if the checks didn't clear, my knee hurts, like, you know, there's no way to know the way that a whole Clippers era played out with Kawaii Leonard. But what we have had in this off season is him become in, for all that the purpose is a different human on camera, he is happy, he's jovial, he's like, like, what is happening? When did you, how does a personality arrive a decade down the road after the summer you've had when you've been in the headlines all summer long, and none of it has been good, none of it has been celebratory, none of it has been positive, and then all of a sudden you come out on the other side of that with the completely revamped outlook on life. So the reason I am setting this up by talking about Kawaii Leonard, you are adding somebody's best player, I, the reason I think this could be so good is because I think Barnes is best suited to be a second banana. RJ Barrett becomes a great third banana. And so you got a lot of mouths to feed and a lot of wing talent on that team. The reason I put quickly in there is because, do they decide that quickly, who has been a bench guy, he's basically his entire career until last year. He started last year for the first time, he's had a six year career, and we knew that he's the kind of guy that can really change the pace, bench eater, is that his destiny or, and then they just go with the Jamal Shed, which they did at the end of the season, and they just get like the set, the table guy, like I really do think that the reason that the quickly thing is interesting is because you have a guy who's not like your typical set, the table point guard, and then you've got all these mouths to feed. And so do they need a set, the table point guard in order to reach what their ceiling could be, or is quickly that guy. I mean, there's no way to know until this season plays out, but I could foresee, I think that team has a very, very, very high potential. It is a team that people do not talk about much. It's a team that probably most people are not going to have a home court advantage, and certainly, you know, some might even have them, you know, in that play in situation. You know, past the top six, depending on who you want, the East is so hard to predict. But I do think that their ceiling can be very high. I don't know if that is the best fit, and that is the guy that kind of controls the way everything goes. You've got these mouths to feed. You have these unbelievable wing players. And the reason quickly intrigued me is because we will see what kind of fit he is. He's also not been like this like massively efficient guy over the course of his career. You know, he's 44% from the field, 37% from three, you know, 16.66 last year. And now you kind of fall back, right, you move down the pecking order. And so does that make him even better, or does that make it where, amen, you just need somebody that's going to get the ball to these guys? That's interesting because when I think about quickly, obviously former Nick, I think about two things. Speed and scoring, right? He's just so fast and he scores, you know, he is a score. And I think that he's not really going to be asked, as you mentioned, to be a score, he is a fourth option, right? I mean, so it's interesting to see if he can evolve into the role that the team needs and the beyond. Or, as you said, is he the heater off the bench guy, you know what I mean? Which is the table setter guy, which is an amazing role to have. You do a 15 years, that's your, that's your bunker offered and also could make them infinitely more effective possible, right? You just got a guy that like sets the table and gets the other guys, the ball in that starting unit. But then you have this guy that can flip games coming off the bench. It might be the destiny. I don't know. I mean, he just became a starter, right? That's why it's interesting. For me, I mean, I'm going to sound like a broken record, I'm sure I'm talking about this next week too. There's so much love for the rafters, but I can't get over, y'all can portal is like this starting center. I just can't get over. It'll be a lot of marine boils, too. It's got to be, right? It's got to be marine boils between boils, barns and Leonard, it's like we've got enough size and rebounding and just tenacity that will make up for the, you know, unless you've got like a Jolm beat or whatever, you know, I mean, I think most centers you go up against with that. And this Jolm beat, we saw in the preseason the other night, wow, wow, wow, good grief. What was that? Yeah. I mean, wow, because I see a lot of these things like, you know, I'll talk about it later, but like the Caleb Wilson. I talked about the last conference. Like, you see the highlights and you're just like, all right, this is the whole story. The Jolm beat. They're just low lights. There were even highlights. It was a mess. It was a mess. I'm moving on to my all interested point guard and it's a similar situation and this is one that's going to go in unlike likely or quickly. This is someone who's talked about a lot. And this is Fred Bambley of these rockets. It's, I think what happens to us, myself included, guilty, hand up, is we sort of like over the course of the summer, we are left with what the last impression that we had of a team. And that aftertaste stays in our mouth all summer long and bleeds into the season because the rockets were just so bad in that Laker series, just like disorganized and you know Durant was out. But I think that it'll, it makes us forget just how good they are. And Bambley, they had two preseason games in Macau and he said that he's going to take some time to sort of get warmed up. He hasn't played for like 17 months or something, but he took 12 breeze. He hit five. 12-3s and he's just such a willing three-point shooter that if you think about what they do offensively, right? Offensive rebound. I'll talk about that later. But where Shengoon and Durant want to score, they need a three-point threat around to give them the space to operate Shengoon down low and Durant in sort of like the mid-range. And I think that Reed Shepard has his problems, but Bambley just being a threat is going to be so good for them. And like even in this first preseason game, you could just see it all fit so much better. And I think that he's going to be the sort of rising tide that floats all of the boats for the rockets. You got, you know, I meant Thompson is not going to have to take the ball up. Reed Shepard is not going to have to take the ball up. Like Bambley just checks a lot of, a lot of the things that they were deficient on last year offensively, Bambley fixes immediately. He only played one game, but like I think that he's really interesting because I'm a little bit higher on the rockets than most because I think that just with Bambley and Adam's health and what they can do defensively and just sort of like everybody having their role make more sense is going to be really, really good for them. That's why he's in my all interesting point, right? Two things on this. The first is Reed Shepard does not have a mustache problem. I mean, just the Nacho Libre thing is immaculate and the announcer even called him that the other night when he made a three Nacho Libre house like, Oh, let the police stay looking like this all year, please. That would be amazing. Have you ever had a mustache? No, I can't grow one. I just, you know, we've never talked about this, but I was curious. I was like, you just Christopher didn't have facial hair. No. You just don't have facial, did like chest hair, nipple hair, armpit hair. No, you just completely bare talked about it. Well, not completely, but my, my grandfather was a significant portion Cherokee Indian and if you ever see Native Americans, you've never seen a hairy chested Native American, they don't exist. That thought has never crossed my mind, but now that you've mentioned, you know, I know going through my, yes, my Manila folder, my mind of body hair on Native Americans, you'd check out. If you ever see it. So like, even like, I don't have hairy arms, I don't have hairy legs, nothing. I mean, I'm pretty much Cherokee Indian. That's what I am. I'm pretty much. And if you want to call me Chief Verno, you can't. Chief Verno. But this has been my place. I mean, if I wanted to talk about you, maybe one day I should just let it grow out. You would see, I mean, I would look like a, you know, like the kid that you went to school with and in seventh grade, he like got the weird looking mustache in there. And he hasn't learned how to shave yet. Like, that's maybe how I would look after like a month, a month. I couldn't grow anything if I tried. Yeah. Okay. Glad we finally talked about that. You're welcome. I'm not gonna lie. Chief Verno. Yeah, Chief Verno. Chief Verno. I'm just starting shooting. Well, so anyway, no, the other thing is, we, we, and we say this all time. So, hopefully, it doesn't matter what his statistics are. It is, to your point, it's not always about the individual performer. It is about how the individual performer affects the group. Yes. Yes. And he makes life easier for every single player on that team. He changes everything about. And just like that, if you think about the rockets, just like how many times did they just sort of like just implode down the end? That's right. The not just in the playoffs, all regular season long. And just like, it'll just sort of like, I just don't see it happening. Like, how many times did they end the game of the turnover or some weird possession where Shen Goon is taking some crazy shot at the end of the shot clock. It just seems like they needed like just to stabilize their organizer. And they've got that. And it doesn't hurt that he shoots 40% from three. And then we'll put them up there. All right. I'm actually going to go with the, uh, maybe a little out of order. And I'm just going to give you my center next because it plays into this. Yeah. The reason I'm giving you my center next is because I'm kind of with you on this rockets thing now. The more I have dove into this season, I put Stephen Adams as the center. And it is hard to remember because he only played 32 games last year. But when he was active for the rockets, even without bambole, you could not get the ball. They're rebounding rate was literally the best ever. Ever he was grabbing four and a half offensive rebounds again. Last year when he was playing. And you, he is as good a screen setter. Maybe the best in the entire NBA. And then when he was on the floor for them, nobody else could get the ball. And when you are playing basketball where the opponent gets one shot and you get two shots over and over and over again, it didn't even matter that their offense was not crazy. No, it was fine. You can shoot 40% from the floor as a team if you get two positions every time. You got the ball back. Their rebound rates, his rebound rate were at absolute historic levels. And if we are looking for, I have come to your side on this that yes, we all agree that there is a massive gap between the thunder, the spurs and everybody else. Like we look forward the team. And I am, I think becoming a little bit higher or am higher on three and four, which are the rockets and the nuggets. And I almost think that there's a break there because I do think we're waiting to see on Minnesota. And that would be the next one that everybody has. But I think that if we look and we go, if you told me, bambole can stay healthy. If you told me Adams can stay healthy, then I, I'm with you as, and they're also possibly a tremendous bitch to play against in postseason basketball. Oh yeah. Right. Absolutely. Abs alone is like, I want to talk about him for a second because if you're in a posing center, right? And you know what a threat he is in the offensive rebounds, right? So that is going to be on your mind when the shot goes up. And he's just so strong that you're going to have to expend so much energy on the, it's like, I took a body blow in boxing. Even if even if the ball goes in, even if that doesn't get the rebound, you're going to have to expend energy and, and mental and physical energy just focused on keeping him off the board. And also, and also to Kobe, it is an exact correlation. Like you can go back throughout his entire career. His team is the number one offensive rebounding team. It was in New Orleans. It was in Memphis. Then it just like it follows him. You all of a sudden become the team that gets the ball back all the time when Steven Adams is on your team. And don't, you said this flippantly and quickly, but like you watched it in Memphis, what he can do is a screen setter. Like what he did for John Moran just getting downhill just eating up his man. It was just like, it, it changes things. And we don't talk about that much. Remember like Andrew Bogick was famous for his sort of like screening with the Warriors. Like it really is an offensive weapon that sort of off the ball. And you know, it's not going to make a highlight reel or anything, but it makes a difference. Well, and people still talk about your watching games and people talk about a Gortot screen. Think about that. Think about how long it's been since we watched Marcine Gortot play basketball. He is, he is known for a screen. And in a day and age where you have a lot of wispy bigs that just go through the motions, guys die on those screens. And yeah, other guys don't even set screens. They just do those like brush screens or whatever. No, no, but I'm saying they fake the screen. This is setting screens that people die off. Yes. Yes. And maybe get her running into like a possibility at any given moment. The guy is a brick wall. I'm doing my center to them. Yep. And this one is, this is a bit chalky. But it's, it's Walker Kessler. They were 29th and restricted area field goal percentage allowed last year. The Lakers. 29th, right? Walker Kessler, there's been discussions, you know, you've seen the quotes. Everyone's listening to this has seen the quotes from, you know, it's sort of like handpicked from Don Chage and Don Chage sort of like had some influence in getting them in there. And I just think that I don't know, like with Gavin in lively, it felt like more of a natural fit. I want to see how this one works because they're going to have to defend. And, and you know, Rhett has already talked about it in press conferences. And I don't know if Kessler can be that sort of like go bear, all fix everything thing because I was reading an article from the athletic about Kessler. There's some quotes from Rettick in there being like, now he allows our guys in the perimeter to be more aggressive, defensively, and you know, try to get the transition and steals the stuff. I'm like, you know, they're kind of treating him like, like here's this go bear, you know, fix anything guy. And I just want to see, I just want to see it. We didn't see him play. He's had shoulder stuff throughout his career. He played 74, 64, I think 58 and then five games last year. I just, you know, we have to assume health for this exercise and in the preseason. But I just want to see it. I want to see it play out. I want to see him catch lops, you know what I mean? And I want to see him rim protect. I want to see him cover up problems that, you know, when people get past Austin Reeves and Luke at touch. I want to see it. And and Jacobi is also always very hard to evaluate guys in my estimation. And look, this is the job of the NBA guys that have not played in any meaningful basketball. And tagging teams, yeah. How can you know, yet you're going into games nightly where it's like, all right, somebody's got to get stats out here. And the goal of this game is to lose. Yeah. We know he can do that. He is great being part of losing basketball. But he got, they paid him a fortune. This was, I mean, they stole him away and traded. Pips, basically, they got empty out the cash. Yeah, I mean, they emptied it out. So he's got to be great for them. And he's got to be the fit that they think he's going to be. And I want to be clear, I'm not saying this is going to be successful. It's going to be a disaster. I'm saying he's interesting. It's a, like, he's a sort of like fulcrum points. It's like if this could work out great or it could be a disaster. I don't know. That's why he's on my interest in team. Not only Jacobi is he interesting. He is essential because he's losing time with this. Right. What pinkie's like, what, what jam's pinkie? Yeah. Because you say, all right, what if he doesn't play a ton of games, which look around the league? It's been hard to count on big guys playing 60 plus. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Right. I mean, it's, it's almost assumed that everyone's playing about 60 games, unless you're Michael Bridges. Right. And then, and then the absence of, then what happens? Oh, that's when it gets dark. All right. You might be missing. We miss Jackson Hades. Seriously. The mismatch is brought to you by Bandoor. All right. This whole podcast, trying to figure out what we actually believe about this upcoming NBA season. Who's winning the title? Which teams are going over? And which predictions? Are we going to pretend that we never made by February? And Fandoor has a reward stack built for exactly this. You get a stack of awards to use on NBA futures. So while we're sitting here talking ourselves into teams for the rest of the show, you can make your futures picks on Fandoor. One of the futures that I secretly love. It's not the over on the Raptors, everyone's hot on. It's not the over on the Grizzlies, everybody's hot on. I feel like the Rockets are going to be better this year than other people do. And I will be going to Fandoor and taking the over on the regular season win totals for the Houston Rockets. And I will be using my reward stack. You can put your reward stack to work on NBA futures with Fandoor. Check it out in the Fandoor app and make this your most rewarding season ever. Remember you have to be 21 and over and select states or 18 and over in DC or Wyoming. Often is required. Bonus issued as a non with travel, profit, boost tokens, restrictions apply. See terms at sportsbook.fandoor.com. Gambley problem? Call 1-800-Gambler or call 888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org/chat in Connecticut. All right. Next one is actually a Laker as well, which is the shooting guard Austin Reeves. Think about paying a fortune. Four years, 184 million and the spotlight becomes brighter than ever because you are now you've got to be the second guy for Luke Adonchich and the story. And we have seen when it has come to play off basketball, Austin Reeves was 41% and 32% against Minnesota when they got wiped out. And then he was 37% and 17% from 3% from Houston. He has a bad game to be fair to him. He was coming back from the injury, but he is bad, he had some stickers. Yeah. And the O.K.C. series as well, where it wasn't exactly the other greatest. So he has been outstanding during the season. I've seen all the stats of when LeBron was out and Luke and Reeves and whatever, but we always talk about the whiteboard, right? Yeah. I got to bring racing to this. Yeah. Right. Okay. I guess you need to change it when I'm talking about the Laker. All right. The whiteboard. Yeah. Damn. I didn't even think about that. Good point. The whitest board. How about we do that? The whitest board. Yeah. Cause everybody has a whiteboard in their locker. Like you move up, right? Like I mean LeBron's out there anymore. And it's like, when I am looking at, I'm playing the Lakers. Okay. Here's what we're doing against Luca. Here's what we're going to do against Reeves. Who cares about anything else? Yeah. That's the end of the conversation. No, really. Who else are you worried about? Crimes? Kessler? Dyer Williams, Jake LaRavia, Mamu. I mean, I'm just saying like there is just a huge onus put on. His life is going to be harder to be able to achieve what he has been able to achieve thus far than ever. You saw it even though you remember he saw it with Derek White last year in the absence of Jason Tatum. And so I'm not telling you he can't achieve greatness or take the next step. I'm saying he becomes massively interesting because on a night in night out basis, when teams are playing against the Lakers, they care about two guys. I mean, they already, you know, in that there's no LeBron. There's no Rui Hatchimura. There's no whoever else you might be worried about. But like those two guys, how many points are they going to have to put up combined a night to get to the number that you want to get to to be able to win consistent NBA games? You know, it was to say, would you say 50? Would you say they have to combine for 50? I mean, I can't imagine they wouldn't. I can't imagine they wouldn't. They wouldn't. I mean, I think that's the baseline. They should. They should. You're going to get to 100 at least. You know what I mean? Like, who else is going to put them all the basket? And I think it's really interesting. It's going to kind of be like Colin Walker, Kessler, like, you know, the perfect, you know, running mate for Lou Gidantre. So I'm like, I don't know. I want to see it. It's kind of like that with Reeves. It's like, there's, it's like, oh, well, you know, it's kind of like him and Kyrie. It's like, we're talking about Kyrie Irving. Right. Like, we'll say it's a big role. This is interesting. We're not saying it's going to work or not. No, it's interesting. It's interesting. I have my doubts just because, and, and maybe what we will see is they are deeper than I think and Colin, sexton, average is 14, and my number, just 12 and grind them. And they have a bunch of guys that average, you know, tend to 12 and it does play off of those two perfectly. But look at it. Look at it. Look at is it's met with James Hardin said he's the system. Look at is a system. He's an office system. Yes. He can spray the ball around. Get guys these shots. Like he can single handedly is an office. And I am saying now, when more attention has been paid to Austin Reeves and the playoffs, the numbers have gone down precipitously from what he has been able to achieve throughout regular seasons. And so we will see on a night in night out basis, you now have a much bigger spotlight on you. It's interesting. Yeah. It's interesting. And I know there's Laker phase. I was like, oh, he's going to be amazing. And now that LeBron's out of the way he's going to average, and maybe he does, maybe he does. But it's interesting. We're not saying it's not going to happen. It's just interesting. Well, I mean, they need him to be an all star. Like if you're going to be good, you need to have an all star level player. I don't think he's an all star unless they're winning games. You're in a corner. That's what I'm saying. Yeah. Yeah. If he is an all star level player, they will win a lot of games probably because if I mean, they've got the two guys and then everybody else can just play a role. But he's not one of the two guys. I'm still thrown by the fact that you claim Native American. And that's why you're hairless. Why? I still. Well, I got made it up. It's like 70% of Americans are claimed some sort of like Native American heritage. You asked me why I am the way I am and that's it. I mean, go look it up, my family, my family's from West Tennessee. Go look it up. Did you do 23 and me? You done any of that? Yeah, my sister. Dan. That's, you know, I was so mad at my brother for doing this. I said, now I can't murder anybody and I listen to tons of true crime shows. They always end up getting caught because somebody did 23 and me or whatever and you're in some day to days now. So now that's why I haven't murdered anybody so far. Yeah. My brother. That's why. Yeah, that's why. Okay. Um, my shooting guard is interesting. I love this place. If you don't say so yourself. I love this place. Okay. One of the most electric watches in the NBA, BJ edge curl. Oh. And you talk about the whiteboard of the pecking order, like I think that I saw I was I was I was looking at this because I love BJ edge call I just think he's great. And I can't get over this 30 point game too. We had in Boston. We had 23 in game seven, but those I remember those performances a lot more than this is the playoffs. This is from three point and these are in games over five over seven over four and over six in playoffs from three. I don't remember those. I mean the next the next is kind of rolled over them. So one of those over fours was against the next but everyone's over sixes. But it's just I think it's really interesting to see what happens to him in this office. You know, is he a second unit scorer guy when max he's out, you know, because you know, because when it beads in the game, he's getting the ball to nail and doing his little thing, you know, I just it's just really interesting to see how he develops because I let's imagine that Jalen Brown and LeBron James did not join the six right. You'd be saying in a six just preview of your preview in the season, you'd be like BJ edge comb is going to be a star he's going to take a leap right. And I find it so interesting because they did acquire LeBron James in the minimum and Jalen Brown for Paul for George. Then now it's like, is he going to be in the corner? You know, it's just like what's going to happen? Like, is this going to stunt his growth or is this going to or is he going to flourish in this new environment because he's going to have space. I don't really know, but I'm really curious about it. I'm finding it very interesting. makes it hard for a guy that we would have naturally believe is a prime candidate for the second year leap. Yes, that's that's kind of why I find it so interesting. And then it's like, I do you get to still take the second year leap when you went from option two on many nights to option five. I mean, Jalen Brown MVP candidate LeBron James, whatever. I'm not going to get into it. But one of the best players ever. If let's hypothetical world in which they did not join the Sixers. You're saying to David Jacobi, Chief Erno is saying, like, it's time to sort of turn the page from this ambide era. The future is right here in the back court. They've got two of the most electric, exciting players build around these two. Right. But then you get Jalen Brown just falls in your lap, the broad James joints for the minimum. And then you're saying, like, where it what is VJ's role in his office. It's a really interesting turn of events. There's nothing to do with him. Nothing. No, and you do wonder also as this goes on, if the lineup remains exactly how we, you know, I mean, it doesn't it nurse just stick with his five best players, even if they aren't the most natural fit together. And again, we will see. I mean, look at the starting five. Oh, yeah, I know, but you say, I mean, no, no, he would also be the natural one that you would move and say, Hey, man, let's you will let you cook the second unit. Because you're not even, you know, I mean, again, you're standing in the corner with you're not getting a ball with these guys. It's interesting. It's it's interesting. I don't know. I mean, you could also say, again, I'm not saying it's not going to work where it's bad for him. You could also say, listen, this takes a lot of pressure off of him. He's got some veteran leadership in the locker room. That's right. You know, LeBron is there. And he's in his second year. He's 20 years old. And now he doesn't have the pressure. You, we need you to score 25 to win a game. Well, that is right. Most of the time, there is a guy that becomes hidden on a, on a player, right? Like that guy in the corner, whatever. Like, can you just say, all right, my worst defender is going to go be over there. The devil's advocate would be is, my God, how amazing are you if he's your fourth or fifth option? You know, I mean, because he's going to kill the shots. Yeah. Right. Because I mean, close out what I am because these teams don't have enough, you know, good perimeter defenders. One's going to have to be on Maxi. One's going to have to be on Brown. You got, and now you're figuring out what you're going to do with LeBron and an edge come theoretical. And it might just be so that with a veteran laden team like this, there's going to be so many games missed that it. So many, if Edgecomb just stays on the floor, he's going to get plenty of opportunity. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Because there's going to be a lot of nights. How many nights do the four play to get there this year? And I'm five or the four. No, I'm talking about the four. I'm talking about the four like with Maxi LeBron, Brown and empty. How many times do those four players who have all been all star caliber players? How many games do they play together? And I mean, would you put the over under I'm thinking about it right now, like 24. I mean, it's an 82 game sees. So if that's where you would put it at, we're all four are available and starting. Yeah. Well, the first game of the year, they'll see from there. I've got one. And it'll be crazy if we don't get to next week. I don't even say it. Don't even say it. Okay, because my next one is my shooting my small forward, which is the aforementioned Jalen Brown. And how this all works for him. Did we just not go through a year where he believed and proved I can be the best player on a team that wins 50 something games. And they did. They won 56 games last year and he was fourth in the NBA in scoring and average 29 points a game. He was sixth in the MVP voting and average 29 seven and five. And now you want to talk about the polar opposite of having your own team. Scott, this is it. If we, if the whole idea was Jalen Brown wants his own team, where he got traded to is the antithesis of having your own team. Like you now are sharing it away that, I mean, hell, there was one other guy that you had to worry about didn't impose it because everybody else can just fall in line. And now you're looking around and it's like, it's who is sacrificing? And where does that go in the Jalen Brown trajectory? Because when it comes contract extension time for him, right? Like I think I think he was on this. I just proved I can be somebody's best player. It appears in the offseason. Nobody wanted to make them him his their best player. Like that is crazy. They wouldn't trade him for Paul Jordan. And so it's all just so weird. You had a guy that was sixth in MVP. I know the whole analytics argument, but it is sure it is so that these teams all have. We can all roll their eyes. And obviously it's goofy. The whole seventh best player thing and what I'm not team or whatever else. But these teams do all have, I mean, fleets of nerds that are running these numbers. And you looked around and that's why we got to the point where he's moved for Paul George. In a trade and and now where is he? Do you think he leads that team in shot attempts? No. Who do you think does? Max. You think Max. So you think he is second. Is he in the games that M.B.D. and LeBron play? Is he regularly? I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I'm thinking about it. I was like, I can see him be taking the most shots. I can see Max taking the most shots. I don't know about LeBron or Edgeko. I mean, like you think about his, it's just weird. Like I was just thinking, well, you're talking about his year. He had a career year. Oh, yeah, it was like he also broke out. He had like a breakout career year. I'm a superstar now. And then all of a sudden, there's no trade market for him. It just happened. And also the man every single night. Every night every night. Every night you're the man. You know, I was arguing with Ben Dietrich about this. I love Ben Dietrich. And he was talking about how like, you know, Dylan Brown needs to come off the bench for the six or whatever. He's a big, six or a guy. He just likes to, you know, have takes. And we're, he's like, he's like, what does Jalen Brown do? Well, right? And I was like, he hits contested shots, like turn around mid range. Really tough contested shots because the defense is keyed on him, right? And I can see that not being the case anymore because there's so many other options on the floor for the six or. Yeah, I don't know when. And again, it's, it's one of those tests for NBA Jalen Brown is awesome. Like awesome, what was happening? It's all we ran the numbers were, the Celtics were better without Jalen Brown. I'm like, watch a game. It's watching watch a game. I love Luke Ogins on us too, but like what are we talking about better without him? Like what are we talking about? He also just played an entire season. Proofing he was awesome. And you mentioned earlier, is that like Derek White was like carrying the load or pitch? They lost Jason. and 1/56 games with their second- - With the media's Cata. - With their second best player being filleted. - Pritchard, right? - There are quite, right? - Pritchard, who do you want to say? Take your pen. - Sure, Pritchard. - Okay. - It's crazy. That's a good one. All right, let's pick out the pace. Mine's easy, man. This is interesting. Again, back to the theme. I'm not saying it's gonna be great. I'm not saying it's gonna be a disaster, but I'll be watching every goddamn minute the Caleb Wilson is on the basketball court because even in the preseason, you can see it. Like, you're gonna see the dunk, right? But what you're not gonna see is the turnovers, the miss shots, the over four from three, like, you know, 'cause when you're just scrolling on your phone, you're gonna see the highlights. And the highlights are amazing, but there are low lights out there too. Like, he looks exactly like he was billed to be. Extremely athletic and like a low floor high ceiling. And I wanna see it play out. - Not let it. He's not low floor. He's not low floor. - I mean, I'm bad. - He is full. - It's high floor. High floor high ceiling. No, he is gonna be awesome. Look, I, I watch every single minute of Friday night, Memphis Grizzly, Chicago Bulls tilt. - Great, great. - Well, because the best summer league game I've ever been to was Wilson versus Boosert. - Just magical. - And so they were gonna be facing each other again. And so I wanted to see it. And my biggest takeaway from that was, when I told you a week ago that I had been over the moon on the Boosert thing because the fact that he looks so comfortable and so able to contribute to winning and so like, he looks like a 10 year vet out there. That's why I have been so excited. I didn't watch that game and go, oh, look at Boosert and then look at Wilson 'cause Wilson only had one point at the first half. They played him the whole game and he got all of his points in the second half of the game. I watched it and go, Caleb Wilson looks exactly how you're supposed to look as a rookie, which is I have all this talent and I am figuring out the speed of the game and I'm figuring out the way this works and I'm figuring out counters and I'm figuring out, like that's exactly how you're supposed to look. You're supposed to look raw, not used to it yet, all of those things, which then juxtaposed with Boosert, which is why I've been so, it's like, why, how are you already? Like, it's solid. He doesn't look like he's having to figure anything out. He does no rookie moment, none. Like, you watch him and if I told you, spot the rookie, he might be the 20th guy you mentioned 'cause he just doesn't look like he, uncomfortable, but Wilson looks exactly how you're supposed to look at as a rookie, but then you see these flashes and you're like, oh my God, when he figures it out. He has a chance to be very, very, very special. Very special. I mean, and he's fun to watch. He is fun to watch. There, I will tell you this show, Jacobi, watching them on Friday, they're, no. (laughs) I mean, they are not gonna be good. He just said, they are. No. I mean, no. (laughs) Sorry. - Who's your path forward? - Yannis? Okay, somewhere along the way, and I know that, you know, still when everybody ranks players, they still got him in the top five, whatever. But I do think that, and maybe it's because he went to Miami, I don't know, but it's like, when you have put any kind of, when he has been available, which is a huge caveat, 'cause you look back and he played, what, 36 games last year, 67 the year before. - To be fair, according to him, he was available last year, just not played. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, right, 67 the year before, 73 the year before, 63, 67, 61, 63, I mean, the last time he played, oh, no, no, no, I take that back. He played 73 games a couple of years ago, and then 18, 19, which is the year they won 60 games. - It's the playoffs. - 'Cause he gets hurt in the playoffs. - I got it, you know, it's the bigger games than the ones where he's not available. - And he doesn't make it all the way through. - Right, and he gets juxtaposed with, like, say, chant, which is two years ago when they won the title. Nobody remembers that he didn't even play in the regular season, really. - For the first six years, right? - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - 'Cause he was there when it mattered. - Yes. - And all the games everybody was like, "But I mean, you look at Milwaukee. They were always, I mean, outside of last year, they were 60 wins, 56 wins, 46 wins, 51 wins, 58 wins, 49 wins, 48 wins. And that was even with the, you know, the failed Damien Lillian experience. - And Milton wasn't available a lot. - Bro, you win a lot against, like, he, like, we say there are SARS and superstars that if you've got a superstar, you know, much like the, you know, this is why we give, you know, we always have that caveat with the Lakers. It's like, bro, it's still. If you've got that one guy, you know, there's a, there's an amount of games you're winning just because you've got that one-plugger. He is that good that he elevates it. And I think you would easily say this is the best supporting cast, even if you don't like Miami supporting cast or don't think it's good enough or think it doesn't have enough shooting or whatever. It's still the best group of guys he has played with in a long time. - And. - Championship run probably. - Right? I mean, I think people have forgotten, you know, because you're gonna see all of these predictions and you're not gonna have anybody that thinks Miami is gonna be at the top of the heap. And what he has proven is you're gonna be in the mix. You're gonna be in the mix. If you've got Yannis on your team and Yannis can play games for you, I've seen him take way worse rosters than this to a lot of wins and I know the East is stronger and I know it's gonna be a first time through and figuring it out, but I do feel like we, you know, this could very possibly be a, I'm about to remind everybody what I am. You remember last year at the beginning of the season and I was like, I remember us doing a show and there was a stopping point like after a quarter of the season, whatever. And I was like, the highest P.E.R. in NBA history is Yannis now. - Jesus. - Like that, no, I mean, it was a, it was a moment that we did a show and we stopped it and I went and looked and hit this, it was like 35 and 13 and like it was crazy. Then he was amazing. And he was playing with frigging cow coos when they saw it. - And I think another thing that's important is if you look at his like head coaching history, you know what I mean? Like this, in the last three years, in particular, it seems like there's a new head coach there every four months. And Eric Spolcher's been there since like the turn of the century. I just have so much faith in Spowe and that staff and the franchise that they're going to get the most out of what they have and they're going to make it work all the time. - They also hired a guy that had, they had like a real winning record when they got rid of Adrian Griffith and replaced him. Like that season. He's like the only, he's one of the only guys in NBA history that's got like a team over 10 games over five hundred. They weren't even like, okay, like they were winning a lot. And they rolled him. And so the honest thing super intrigues me. It's the first time we have seen him in a different uniform. And he's got a lot to prove, you know what I mean? Like now, and I do think his, even if you don't love the group around him, it's the best he's had in a long time. And this guy was winning 58 games, you know, just a few years ago. Hell was winning high four days with just a team that was not good. - This would be interesting. - Oh, I can see the Miami thing ended up doing very good. - Yeah. It's hard to see it, I mean, again, we're super healthy 'cause of the board. It's hard to see it go bad, you know? - They're just gonna be, I mean, if they defend like they are going to be able to defend, it's just horrible to play against Knightley. David Mitchell, I just saw an interview with him yesterday, saying, "My goal is defensive player of the year." Well, if that's, if the guy that's at the point of attack is him, and then, okay, now, Bam and Janis and Wiggins on the wing, like that team could be amazing defensively. Amazing. - And Janis is one of the best transition finishers I've ever seen in my whole entire life, if not D. - Yeah. - And when you defend like that, you get long rebounds, you get out and run, you get steels, you get out and transition, like, he's gonna eat. All right, this one's easy. It's kind of like your Janis one. Because we're so, we had a great time. great NBA finals. And the Spurs, Wemba Nyama, everything that happened. It's almost like people are sleeping on the thunder. It's just odd because my interesting guy is J. Dub, Jaylen Williams, for the thunder. Because it's like people have sort of forgot how hobbled he was in the playoffs because he was technically out there. But don't forget, he scored 40 in the finals. And don't forget that on certain nights he looks like a number one offensive option. And he just didn't look like himself last year. And the thunder are just so good, all regular season long. And they went seven with the Spurs without, I'm gonna say without J. Dub. And you know, and he looks healthy and bouncy. And like, I just think he's gonna make a huge difference for this team. And I think it's sort of something that's just not, it's not spoken about enough. And I think it's really, it'll be really interesting to see if they kind of come into the season and the chip on their shoulder after the loss in the Western conference finals and just go on an absolute tear in the back of the season. I can see it out. - Yeah, it is crazy to think about that those last two seasons, and neither of us even mentioned Chad Holmgren who has to recover from rather public devastation in a game seven, where he got beat up a lot and something that he will want to forget. And so you will see if that fuels you going forward or whatever. But just like I mentioned, Chad Holmgren though, their title year didn't play the first part of the year. The fact that they were as awesome as they were, I think, leads to what you're talking about, which is it is very easy to forget how great J. Lynn Williams is because that team was so deep and so good. And they had Case on Wallace and A.J. Mitchell. And then Case on. Comes in and starts in through, he's in the playoffs. It's just like the fact that they were able to be awesome without him, then takes the spotlight off of, but you're right. I mean, he's still, and he should be theoretically entering the absolute prime of his career. Like you haven't even, the idea that we haven't even seen the best of him, which is a guy that we watched dropped 40 in the finals is crazy. - And what's all the talk about the Thunder Now? A Diamara and Bennett Sturts. - Right. - Don't forget about Jay-Doh. Don't forget about the all NBA all-star guy over there. - Yes. - Some tells me you're gonna hear from him and the regular season a lot more than Sturts. - Yep. We're on to our bench, and I'm gonna go six man and look, the interesting one is obviously Dylan Harper. - You're cheating here. He's not gonna be the six man. You're cheating. - What do you think they're gonna do? - I think they're gonna start Dylan Harper. I think it's just, it's so obvious. - You think Fox is gonna come off the bench? - No, I think it'll be a champagne or a sell. - You think he's gonna be a three. - Well, I mean, he's, but they're gonna move Castle next to him. Yeah, whatever number you wanna put next to him, but yeah, I think Fox Castle, Fox Castle, Harper, yeah, yeah. - Oh, I don't think so. I don't think so. - He's just so good. - I know. Why would you take him off the bench? This is why this is interesting. - He's just too good. He's super qualified. It's ridiculous. - He was the best player in the finals. And Spurs fans, I mean, the amount of memes on. - Well, he was not the best player in the finals. It's the best player in the finals. - About Fox, oh, sorry. About Fox, the, I mean, Spurs fans were so done with Fox after losing that title. And obviously Harper is the favorite son. It's like, this is going, it's gonna be a thing. It's gonna be a thing. Fox was an all-star, by the way. And Fox settles them down. And Fox was, and it's like, okay, fine. Jacobi, what I would tell you is, even if you were to start him the way you think, and it's like, okay, you'll just bring one of those. - Yeah, she and Penny comes off the bench. - That doesn't fit the same way either though. Again, you're playing him alongside Fox and Castle now. And that's not the way to get the best out of him. He's a ball in his hands, demon. And it's like, the reason this is interesting to me is because this is a team that just made it to the NBA finals and was there and is now on this trajectory and what happens with Fox? Do they move off of him? Says he end up like, I mean, this is the Dylan Harper thing and the fact that that was already a subject, you know, and obviously he did that GQ thing and was joking about it. But there, as they always say, for those that don't know, it's like, a bench, what the hell? I'm not coming off the bench, you know what I mean? Like you joke. - And then later on, he was like, I'm just lying. And you know, whatever, you know, as well as I do. There is much truth in Jess. - Yes. - There's much truth in Jess. And you've got him and, frankly, a fan base and an NBA fan base being like, really, bro, we're gonna do the Managed Genobility thing with him. Like this guy, this guy is just, I mean, I remember us doing a show during the finals or throughout the playoffs when he, we were just like, oh my God, this guy's amazing. And we were like, are we gonna look back on this rookie of the year voting and just be like, what happened? You know what we got? - Super flagged. - Super flagged. - And it would be James Cobbord. - Yeah, I guess this guy was fourth. And you're gonna be like, what? What happened here? Because, and that's a real possibility. I think anybody that watched him last year was like, oh my God. - This guy. - He really against him in the finals. In the NBA finals, rooting against him, it just felt like a favor every time they subbed him out. - Yeah, so what, so the reason I put him in here is because what happens with him? - Start him. It's just right there. And again, we always don't know, but starting or not starting, he's gonna be in the closing line up, say that much. So whether they start or not, it's like, how many minutes does he play? Who does he play with and does he close? And I would say a lot of minutes, a lot of time with the starters and closes. - All right. - And he's gonna score a lot of points. It's gonna be even better than last year. And last year, he was terrifying. Terrifying to root against. - Oh my God. - It was almost like, they've got to swim for a freak who's got the ball skills of a point guard. But I'm still with more scared of doing Harper with the ball than women y'all. - He was unbelievable. - All right, who's mine? Oh, this is. Tomorrow to Rose. - Oh. You know. - They got him for a nickel. - It just feels like a really good role for him. You know, playing against second units. You know, we always talk about the nuggets, the non-yo-catch minutes. Well, listen, there's no offense. There's no, tomorrow Rosen is an offense onto himself. Whether it is efficient, is it? You're gonna win a championship with it? I don't know. But he can put the ball in the bucket. I don't say that much. And I just think that the nuggets, I think losing Peyton Watson, the way that they did makes us overly pessimistic about the nuggets. Because I said this last week, I could see a world where Christian Brown is healthy and better than last year and Aaron Gordon's healthy. And then you got Spencer Jones takes a leap. The Rosen is, you know, a veteran. Maybe the Whitmore thing hits. - No, man. It's possible. - It's possible. - Dude, he is so talented. He really is. And he's been waived. And so it's kind of like, sometimes you can catch these guys where it's like, bro, it's now a do or die for me. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - It turns to the lead. So I'm also like, you know, 'cause he turned down a deal. You know what I'm saying? Hey, man, like, you want to be an NBA basketball player, you've got a year of proven. So I can see it. - And the other, and you know, the Rosen's gonna, he's one of those guys gonna be able to get a bucket till he's 65 years old. Like the guy can score, right? He gets to spots and he scores. And wouldn't this be a cool like last chapter of career to be a guy that like, could you could see it? Him coming off the bench in a playoff game and getting 26 for you. - We've all seen like Vets kind of like get a ring at the end of their career. But this is a real contributing vet getting a ring at the end of his career, which is different. And also, yeah, I mean, look, he could destroy second units. He's been playing, and he's been playing meaningless basketball for, you know, in Sacramento for some time now. - It could just be one of those situations in a big game where the end of the third quarter and the start of the fourth, you know, the Nuggets are down 15. But then when yoga comes back in, they're down six. - Yep. - You know, and it's because De Marga Rosen scored 12 and we've, you know, five for seven from the field. - Well, and also maybe a guy that can just hold the fort down in the non-Yo-Kitch minutes 'cause that has been, you know, their plight over the course of his career, which is like, when Yo-Kitch is on the floor, they're plus a million. And then he goes off and they're minus a million. - It'll be interesting. You know, we haven't talked about Bagley yet either, but like, that's another one of their sort of like non-Yo-Kitch minutes tools. There's a reason we haven't talked about Bagley in years. - Literally. dying starving on Bagley Island. (laughing) Will said, parched and starving. All right, my next bench guy, I'm not even gonna talk about this alone. Okay, 'cause we mentioned him a week ago. The porcingest thing. Yesterday's like, oh, he's gonna, he's gonna be at the team facility tomorrow. - Yeah, that's the news, the news today. The headlines today was he might be at the facility. - What? - Okay. It's the weirdest story ever. Honestly, I can't, I can't remember. I can't, I honestly, I've been doing podcasts and paying attention to the NBA intensely for the last 25 years. And I can't remember something like this. Honestly, and I think going into this season with, you know, I did this a bit with Kevin with the semi-ball predictions, and what we find on there was that only the Kings and the, who was the other team? Who else is the sorryest teams in the, in the Western? Oh, the Kings and the, who would I have at the very bottom? I can't even, oh, the Clippers. I think it was the Kings and the Clippers. Only the Kings and the Clippers will be worse than the Warriors. Because if they don't have Porzingus and they don't have Jimmy Butler and they don't have Moody. Like, how are you Winnie? - I love Stephanie. - I love Stephanie. - I love Stephanie's been looking great in the pre-season. - I love Stephanie. - I love Steph Curry too, but like, that's crazy. - Al Horford? - Nah, I mean, you still don't have the roster to be able to win games with those guys out. And the fact that like, until yesterday, it was like, yeah, nobody's talked to him and nobody knows where he is. And then yesterday, it was like, actually, he's gonna show up to the facility tomorrow. Well, good, the season starts next week. Like, what are we doing? Like, I don't understand it. - Who knows, who knows? But he's for sure their second best player. In the end, I mean, I'll take Dremon over him, just, you know, because what Dremon does in defense, but yeah, I'm not hiding on this Warriors season. - Let's say Porzingus is healthy, play 70 games. I'm still not high on the Warriors season. - Okay, you're right about the Dremon thing, but that's eight points. If you need somebody that's getting you 18 to 24. - Yeah, I mean, I don't see how it's gonna work. - Yeah, I mean-- - I don't see how it's gonna work with the Warriors. I just don't see it. - I mean, you take those two guys out of their lineup. If they had Butler and Porzingus, it's a different world, but they're gonna get Butler back and he's gonna be coming off an injury. - Also, we got an update on the story, and the only update was he's gonna come and meet with the medical team. - To come into the facility. Steve Kerber clearly had no contact with him or no idea where he was physically. - Well, and he's gonna meet with their team doctor and whatever, like-- - Shouldn't they have already met? - Like, months are coming. - Yeah, it's weird. It's so, it's so, we've never seen a story like this. Straight bizarre. - All right. - They also, they gave him a contract. - Yeah, that's interesting. They're in a bad spot. Even with Porzingus, let's just say the mystery on this goes away, okay? Still don't see it. I still don't see it. - Honestly. - All right. - Would you have given him that contract if you knew he was just gonna be gone with his phone off? I guess. - Where was he? - We don't know. - I heard he was driving an RV around the Southwest. - That's all I'm actually. - That would have been super funny if he signed the contract and then just turned his phone off and laughed. - Just like, yeah. - I'll see y'all October 13th. - I live in Vancouver now. - I'm a farmer. - I'll see you October 13th. - Yeah, yeah. - When's the season start? - For my check. - Yeah, it starts the week of the 20th. All right. I'll see you in the 13th. - All right, I'm gonna make this one quick. I have a Isaiah Joe here. And it's really because I wanted to talk about the pistons because I think so much energy around the pistons was focused on Jalen Dern and Jalen Dern's contract and disrespect and how much is he worth and you know, what are they gonna do and give him? And it's like, again, because they left us with a bad taste in our mouth over the summer, we've completely erased the fact that they were the number one seed and that Cade Cunningham looked like an MVP candidate and they were just winning games left and right and left. They're real talk match up for the mix, dominate the mix in the right season. - And also, they won 60 games and then we go, all right, it's not good enough. Need running buddies for Cade. And evidently, he went out and recruited every single person known to man and then you looked up at the end and they got Isaiah Joe and John Collins. - Yep, and it was this thing. Remember, we were saying at the trade deadline, there was a lot of call for them to sort of bring in a second star to support Cade to get another scoring option. We love Dana's Jenkins, but like, you know, and someone else has got to be able to get a bucket. And we're like, you know what? They're the number one team in the Eastern Conference. Maybe what they're doing is they wanna see it in the playoffs and then after they see it in the playoffs, they'll use the off season to adjust appropriately based on their playoff performance. It just didn't happen. - Also, the thing that is mega interesting about Isaiah Joe is he's been like this 11 point, really efficient, 46% from the field, 42% from three, like, and is he a thunder creation and perfect alongside that group, right? Sometimes you are Derek White and sometimes you are Jonathan Simmons, right? And Jonathan Simmons or Gary Neal, like these guys Bryce, whatever his name was, you know, they're a bunch of guys with the spurs like that for years. - Oh, right. - And again, sometimes they're Derek White and sometimes there's the other ones. You're like, oh God, it was just a spurs thing. It's same with the Miami Heat, like where you went, oh God, it was just a heat thing. So was Isaiah Joe just a thunder thing? Or was Isaiah Joe like being held back? Like he actually is a guy that would be mega useful for 30 minutes a game, you know? - We know he can catch a shoot. - Yeah. - We know he can do that. We know that K can get you a catch a shoot opportunity with K and Thunder in a big role. - Maybe a better one would be like, trying to think of somebody, norm power. How about that one? Who's like I'm the Raptors, but then like proved, like no power could be. And again, he's on a rat team now, but I mean, like norm power obviously was better. He, if you gave him more minutes, this guy, he made it all start team. - And he didn't just have one good year for the Clippers. He had great years for the Clippers and then kept it going in Miami. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so again, the Isaiah Joe thing, I don't know what to tell you. He had a preseason, he hadn't been making shots, but like you need him to be good. I'm glad you mentioned them though, because my last one is beef stew. You know that if you would have, when this happened, I had a bona fide celebration. If you would have asked me of any five players in the NBA that are not like star players that are actually attainable players that might switch teams one day, who would you want? Possibly number one on my list would have been, I say a steward and he is in Memphis. He played two minutes in the preseason, a twist his ankle, but he's gonna be fine. So I mean, he is already totally embraced being in Memphis, shaking hands, kissing babies, doing the whole thing. And you have a guy here that could change two cultures. When you thought about the pistons, the embodiment of that was Isaiah Stewart. Affair, like you and I both loved the pistons. And when you thought about them and they're like, yeah, yeah, they are not to be trifled with. - That's the thing is you just want to have an identity, you know what I mean? - Yes. - And just doing culture. And ideally you haven't matched the city. And I feel like beef stew checked all those boxes for Detroit and the pistons. - And now he has the opportunity to do it again with a team that is easily malleable and with him and Zach Edie and the rest of those, the other thing is beyond the culture thing. Because when you think, anytime these guys like the heart and soul guys, you've seen Dylan Brooks do it with other teams. Anytime these heart and soul guys move elsewhere, you see the effect it can have on the former team. And so, but beyond the whole culture thing, he could end up being wildly important. Everybody is so, you know, it has made me uneasy how everybody is saying the same thing about like, the Grizzlies are on a team to watch. The Grizzlies are a team that are better than their win total. The Grizzlies are the ones that could sneak up on everybody. I really like this Grizzlies thing. Like, you know, it makes me a little uneasy. But Zach Edie, a lot of that is dependent upon like how many games do you get out of Zach Edie? But also stewart basketball wise. If they, if Memphis is to be what many of the experts are now, Believe it or not. even can be the surprise team or better than what the collective thinks. Part of that is going to be like, okay, even if you don't have Zach Edie, you've got I say a store there, and then you're back up to him is Quentin Post. And so you can get by like that Edie, when you lost him, when you only had him for 11 games last year, like they were, it was a profoundly different team and everybody sees those numbers. And so Stuart has this outsized role now, whereas not only he helps and still this culture, but also he becomes like mega essential basketball wise, because how many games are you getting out of Zach Edie is a real question, but it also might not determine whether or not you can still be a good team or not. It'd be irresponsible for the Grizzlies to not be prepared to play without Zach Edie. That's right. Oh, and the other thing, and I think it is also like, we will see how profound it is with Detroit. But honestly, when I thought about Detroit, I thought about him. I thought about like this rough housing team that, oh my God, when things break out. It doesn't matter because you remember last year, it didn't even matter if he was in the game. That thing in Charlotte, like, and then he's thrown out of the game, and he's like, if you didn't want this, you shouldn't have trapped him. Like, when he actually tried to fight LeBron James, because a lot of people try to fight in the NBA. He actually tried to fight LeBron. But there's also been the security game footage of him punching Drew U-Banks in the-- Yeah. He's also-- He doesn't know. Usually that guy can't, like, doesn't shoot like 37% from three either. You know, like, you're like a rim-protective center that can punch you in the face, also shoots 37% from three. I have the numbers in front of me. But you can hit a three. I thought the Dremont clip that was going around was fascinating because that is a guy that routinely tries to, you know, hit a lot of his game is punking you out in intimidation and he opine that them losing Stuart, that now that-- that Cade bodyguard isn't there and people are going to try and Cade in a way they haven't in the past. And just hearing him say that as a guy that does try people, like, he is an active NBA player. Yeah, that's interesting. That, like, there was always that thing in the back of your head. You'd be a big brother's not at the park anymore. You'd be a big brother went off to college, and he's not at the park anymore. Yeah. Interesting. I love-- I love Beefstube, great nickname too, by the way, it's excellent nickname, excellent. You know any wants to be called that too? That was fascinating. You never know with guys, and he was like, nobody calls me by my name. You could-- he said you could call me Beef, or you could call me Stu. Doesn't matter. I was listening to House and Bill's pod, and they were talking about Beefstube, and I made him use to last week. Came up pretty good. Yeah. Came up pretty good. Yeah. I know you're wondering. Do I want you to do a whole food news on it? I do. Well, I did. I know you're listening to food news twice every week. Comes out every Friday. My final one, bench player, Mitchell Robbins. I saw him knocking down three in a video, like-- Oh, god. I mean, there's that one video that went around last off season, where he's like, go between the legs and the step-axe and stuff. It's like, wait, what are we doing? I just think he's really interesting. He's got this mythical reputation now in New York that, like, I think people forget that he's a flawed basketball player, you know what I mean? Like, he-- that was a great rebound. He's a part of a change of champion. He's a key part of the championship run. Love you, Mitchell Robbins, and-- but I don't-- like, the Celtics did not get, like, a go-to starting center when they got Mitchell Robbins. And I think the problem is to start Kate, right? Don't you think so? Probably. I think he's best-- he's best in the role that he was in last year as a backup, energy, rebounding, you know, a quick stint, fella, because I think he could be great in Boston as that. It was-- I'm just really-- actually, it's really interesting to see if he gets more opportunity to do more, you know, in Boston. You know, they really like to shoot threes there. Maybe he'll get a bunch of rebounds. Yeah. Back out. We know this guy could flip a-- he can change a game rebounding. He can. He has. Many, many times. And he puts a lot of time and energy and effort into getting offensive rebounds. And he's a lot of times-- He is a function of what you put into it. He invests energy into getting offensive rebounds, and he gets returns. It's exactly like when we were talking about earlier, the Steven Adams thing, which you-- Yeah. These are guys-- they have such incredible value. I know that you're down to give as a player, but they have incredible value, because they don't need the ball, and they will go get the ball. A lot of these bigs turn off if you're not-- if they're not getting the ball, then they're not doing the other stuff, you're right. Right. He does all the other stuff. Well, you wanted Jalen Duren to-- okay, you're not scoring. Go get a million rebounds against the calves. And then-- Yeah. But if we're being fair, towns, too, there's sometimes where like, okay, towns just isn't getting the ball on offense, and it's like, but if you give him the ball, you get this engaged defender rebound, or you get the whole thing, but guys like Adams, guys like Robinson, it's like-- I don't-- But-- I'll set your screens, and I'll get your misses. How about that? A couple things that's different between those two is Robinson is surrounded by shooters. But that's really that second possession you're going to get cast and shoot open threes because the defense is just, you know, they're not sticking to their man. So like, think about the warriors, how many times in their second possession step carry wide open off a curl? Right. You know, because-- And he's going to have shooters around, so he can get that-- he doesn't really like put the ball back that much. He kicks it out to shooters, and he scores. And another thing that he can do is, man, for a seven footer rebounder, Dunker, he can get in a stance to stay in front of the guard. Like, he really can. And that is valuable if you're going to play against the defense. So it felt like you were talking yourself out of Mitchell Robinson, and then by the end ended up talking about how awesome he is. No. What I'm saying is he's a great backup center. I just-- I don't think they're going to play him 35 minutes a game because that's not who he is. Well, I don't think that's why they signed it. Yeah. Are we-- before we get out of here, are you okay on the-- the next release in a statement is a bit odd on the, hey, we're tabling discussions until, like, why are we putting out a statement why we're tabling discussions? But they just said we're tabling discussions until later. What? It's not like, oh, it's not like, we'll revisit this at the all-star break. They're just like, yeah, we're not going to talk to anybody's reps anymore. Okay. I mean, I think the idea is, if Carl Anthony Towns is actively in negotiations with the team and he's getting calls from his agent every other day about some other offer that's not what he thinks he deserves, I think that could end up affecting his play on the floor. So what they're trying to say is, we're not going to have those discussions right now. Or it's going to focus on the basketball. Right. If you've got a call from your agent and-- I just think it's a bad-- I just think-- You've got an offer that you felt was disrespectful and then you put the uniform on and way now. I think it would affect your play. I think it will affect your play until it gets resolved anyway. You do not have to come out with a statement saying that you're not going to ever go over the second apron. You do not have to come out with a statement saying you're not going to negotiate with any of your players for, I don't know, an undisclosed amount of time. It just seems like, like, these are just, like, you want a championship. That feels self-inflicted to me. Yeah. Yes, these are own goals. These are own goals. James Dolan, they didn't even have the parade yet. And James Dolan's like, we're not going to the second apron. Why? Why not? You won the title. Why not? You could have brought back Mitchell Roberts, he could have, like, what is the point, then? What? You're saying, if there's ever a time to second apron, it's when you can win the title. Yeah, when there's a banner up there. That's when it's worth it. I understand the guy. I understand the owner that's like, to hell with this second apron, we ain't winning anyway. But like, the guy that wins shouldn't be like, to hell with this second apron, like, you should be like, who gives a crap about the second apron? And then the shams think, he's like, well, Josh Hart and Jonathan Tows could be like trade candidates. What? What? Tows. Tows. Tows. Tows. Switching is insta-avatar. Oh, yes. That's the other thing. It's all just. God, I hate this. I mean, I hate this. Well, I mean, I, you know, I, and one of my predictions for the season is that we're, the town doesn't the only one, like, this is now going to become rather common where. the second tier star not getting what they have always gotten is going to be happening because the other way is unsustainable given the fear of going into this second apron whatever and just think about this summer and you think about Jalen Brown and you think about Brad Steven sitting up there going this isn't the way we just don't think that sinking this into this and the Jalen Dern thing and now we're already to the town's thing and it's because it was just it for a for a while there it had just become commonplace if you're good even if you're like a second tier star so your Desmond Bain you get it if you're Jalen Jackson you get it you're Evan Mobile you get it your Franz Wagner you get it you're Paulo Bain carrow you get it like you have more you hadn't won anything yet you hadn't done anything yet you're not even an all-star yet so what we believe in you your your Austin Reeves you get it you're you right and then we're gonna look up and there's gonna be a bunch of guys that like all right being negotiated with there were very little negotiations we went into this whole era of just hey are they good yeah I'll match them good Jalen green shirt give them X and now and now we're in the Nego because and it's not necessarily going to happen on the first contract as much but it is going to happen on the extensions regularly because guys aren't going to get the extensions that they thought they were and guys that have accomplished a lot like either been all NBA or all stars or they've got these like monster possible max extensions I mean you see that now I was trying to when you were talking about like towns could get moved or whatever you know me like that thing go look at his contract he's got two more years the contract year but it's also like 60 million dollars is not easy to trade well also think about players that you would just brainlessly give the max to right the number one person comes to mind is Victor Wimbledon Yama guess what took less I mean he's like he's one of the most it's not even a decision you know what I mean well and then that's gonna be and the next one will be Castle Castle's actually a great that is a unbelievable case study because that is because he's not a flawless player you know he's not a Wimbledon Yama but he's also he will be an interesting case study we'll watch this as it goes for five years ago or three years ago he's a max extension and the story right same with Dylan Harper max extension and the story like we're not even thinking about that but now I'm not sure that that's going to be the case with everybody you know can you pay can you pay Castle Harper Wimbledon Yama what they're worth at the same time you pay Fox no right right and you know it's even worse news for the Spurs is Greg pop of it's married coach pun sexy boy she was also on my bed well we didn't get to it we didn't get to it it's interesting it's interesting yes yeah the interesting coach my team oh no no no no the you know that's right I got him he's on my team it's my interesting holiday was Thanksgiving at the pop of the or the booten holsters I guess I mean they got to see the kids and now it's stepped in yeah that's that's that's tough yeah I think they play on Christmas so they'll be on the road yeah all right season will be upon us by next week we will have all of our season predictions leading into tip-off literally a week away now thanks to Jeff and Steph as always in Jacobi I'll talk to you next week remember you must be 21 and over and present select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas start casino or 18 and over and present in DC or why only got a gambling problem call 1-800 gambler or 1-800 my reset call 1-888-789-777-777 or visit ccpg.org/chat in Connecticut or visit md gambling help dot org in Maryland hope is here visit gambling help m a dot org or call 800 3-275050 4-247 support in Massachusetts or call 1-8-778 hope and why