The Mindset Shift That 10X’d Her Pricing with Lauren Evans

This week on Two Blocks from the White House, how fringe ideas and conspiracy theories have come to the forefront during Donald Trump's second administration. From UFOs to missing scientists to Jeffrey Epstein theories, today we're asking has Trump made conspiracy mainstream. Join me, Willie Lowry, and my fellow Washington correspondents, Paul Hunter, and Katie Simpson as we break down US politics from a Canadian perspective. Find and follow Two Blocks from the White House wherever you get your podcasts. This is a CBC podcast. Hey, I'm Garvey Bailey and for Tom Power, welcome to Q. Let's play a little jeopardy for a second. I'm going to read you a list of names and I want you to tell me what they have in common. In the form of a question, okay, here goes. Bachman Turner Overdrive, Loverboy, Brian Adams, Ann Murray, Michael Buble. Now, if you were to say who are some of the most successful musicians to come out of Canada over the past 50 years, well yeah, you'd be right. But only half right. The real answer that I'm looking for is which artists have been managed by Bruce Allen. That's right, all those big names I just mentioned have all had their careers guided by this one guy from Vancouver. Over the past 60 years, Bruce has been shepherding artists from the Canadian club circuit to the global stage. And in the process, he's become a bit of a legend himself. Someone who's straight shooting outspoken nature can land him in the headlines and in a little bit of hot water alongside his a list clients. A few weeks back, Bruce's six decades of service in the Canadian music industry was recognized with a lifetime achievement award at the departure music festival in Toronto. And Tom had the chance to talk to him about the highs and the lows of his remarkable career. But before they got into all that, we started out playing another little game. Tom asked Bruce Allen to name that tune. Do you know who we're listening to right there? No, but I know the song. That's five man cargo. Wow, you see that? I wouldn't have done that because I couldn't I couldn't have figured that out. That's a long time ago. That's how I got started. That's the first band I ever got in involved with because they were a guy a friend of mine was running their club a night club. And he said, we got a band in here that's really interesting because they're playing all the English stuff. And he said the people are really coming in here, but the band isn't any any really showy or anything. And he said, I'd like you can you come down and and I come down and have a talk to him. And I'm just you know, I'm working in a working just in a slob job during the week. And I said, you know, he knew I was a music fan. So I went over there and I met these guys and we had a talk about it. And we put it all together for this guy's club and they turned it into a real that club out there in a wrong part of town. And it up to be very successful for about five six years. It was run by a ball player for VC Lions and Jim Lasseter. And he and he he brought this English band in and you know, and it was something that was new to Vancouver because we were brought up on R&B here. Vancouver was R&B. It was an R&B city. One after the other coming in big band huge bands or rock or rock. Sorry, not huge bands, but show bands with whites, black singers and white musicians. That's what it was. And it was a rock. It was an R&B town without a doubt. And all of a sudden we heard this stuff coming in from Toronto and so on and so forth and everything changed. You know what? And we got some more of that material out Vancouver and it was good for us. So when you started out, it was as a booking agent before you became a manager. I was I was reading that your inspiration as a manager in the music industry wasn't necessarily people like Brian Epstein or Peter Grant or Colonel Tom Parker. I read an interview where you talked about being inspired by Jimmy Hoffa. Jimmy Hoffa the lay president of the teamsters union. Watch me. I'm in a strong militant willing to fight and will not surrender nor will they lay down. Negotiated tough contracts took on the US federal government. You know, my dad came up in the labor move and he talked a lot about Jimmy Hoffa. I mean, and Jimmy Hoffa famously kind of disappeared. Yeah, he plays in the between the goal post of some football. Some football field down there in America. Yeah. How did Jimmy Hoffa inspire you? Well, I just like his focus. I mean, he just bare down on one thing and that's what he did. And he kicked ass for those guys. I mean, I know we know now he's probably a bit of a crook, but that was the way it was. So when I got into Bill Lasseter gave me a shot to get in the doors with the five band cargo and I put the five band got worked with the five band cargo and they became very, very good on stage and really did well in the marketplace. So all of course the other club owners came and asked to, you know, can we get the band? I like to have the band in our place. And we had a good scene for music at that time. So every time I moved that band, moved the five band cargo to one other place, I asked for the booking rights. So I had the booking rights for where they were playing at the time in Lasseter's den and then I picked it up and I moved it along to another guy and I got his booking place. And finally, you know, it very, it didn't take long. Yeah, well, it took a bit of while, but I mean, 18 clubs, I had it one time somebody told me. And that actually classed going across the border a little bit into the states because we couldn't drink on Sunday, but you could go down to a playport port. The very good boy was called in on the west coast and you go in there and you can drink and people go down, we had a thousand seat room there. So all the guys in Vancouver, the musicians in Vancouver worked there and we had a really good thing going. And of course that's why I met, you know, when I started to get into the management side, I met people who came in like Randy Beckman when he left the guests who, and he came in because he wanted to try to get his new band started and it kind of been black belt in Canada. I got a little bit of that. Can we just take a listen to this? [Music] So that's Randy Beckman, people might know him from the guests who, or they might know him from Buckley Turner overdrive. That's his band, Brave Belt. That's what came to Vancouver, I brought them to Vancouver. So this was after guest here, this was his. So he had been, I mean, you didn't get a black belt, he couldn't get a job. Why? Because because Canada was put it broken into sections where guys controlled certain areas and the guests who were a big band, and if you can get hold of a big band like that in your booking agent, you're going to really look after them. Because there was good money and that stuff. So I was the only guy at Vancouver in V.C. actually. But I wasn't tied up to that conglomerate that had all these guys together who were working on that type of system. And Randy was left out of it because he quit the band? Yes. Okay, yeah. I mean, the band wasn't happy that Randy left. He left for reasons that everybody knows. He was sitting there with these guys and they were living one type of life and he was living another. And so he came to Vancouver, he called me and said, "Could I work out there?" Because he had Brave Belt, but they couldn't get working. And also he wanted to get a place where he could write. And he wanted to make a band to put a band together again. So he came out and Brave Belt and we got him going. And of course he could do business out here. And he had a pretty good job and kept him going. He could pay his staff, pay his band. And then all of a sudden he said, "Listen, Randy Beckman, he said, "Listen, Bruce, that's fine to play all these honky-tongues." But what we got to do, I want to get a record out there again. I want to get a record out there again. So I never made a record deal in my life at that time, but we worked together and we got turned down once by every probably 14 labels. Hold on, he says, "Hey, I was just in the first Canadian band ever getting America or one." But I'm going to work with this young guy who's never managed a band before to be my manager. No, he came in there and asked, "What I did for him as I saved him, he was working all the time." So he came and said, "You can do this." And I said, " Randy, you've had a big band. You know a lot more than I do. What am I going to do? I can't help you." He says, "Yes, you can. It's hard for me to say, "I want, I want, I want." If you sit there and say, "He wants, we want." Then he says, "They'll listen to me a bit different. I don't want to get in that battle. I need somebody." And believe me, he brought me through the business and I learned about it by talking to him all the time. And we traveled in a bike car most of the time and he and I were in the front. The three other guys were in the back. And you learn, you learn on the go. And that's what I did. He just gave me a chance and we took a shot. It kind of worked. And we did very well. I mean, tremendous. And I still go see Randy once and well when he comes through. I really got a lot to thank from him. Thankful that he did for me. Is there a point in that run with BTO? Like when BTO takes off and you're going to every single gig with them, you're managing them? I never missed a show. We did 200 shows a year. Was there a point? Wow. Was there a point where you went, "Okay, I might be actually kind of good at this managing thing." I wouldn't think like that. I was learning all the time. I mean, God, I never done it. I had to get somebody to run my office because I was up so much and because I wanted to keep it just in case this didn't work. And here's another point. thing for us to go on the road and then those days and we're driving all the time whether it's in a bus or whether it's in a car who we talking to we can't talk to anybody until we pull over to a gas station to make a pay phone okay it's not like we have to now you can talk back and forth to the record company all the time it's so it's it's it was very difficult I think but it was also a time when there was many ways to work in in the United States now it's down to like three three three four people what when you say like I what do you think is the most important thing you learn from Randy and BTO when you're learning to be a manger with them um Randy is determined was a determined to come back and show people that he was a big part of the guess who and what I learned from that is if you got to have be a have a great band you have to have a great leader and he was a good leader he led real well and everybody that came after that to me had a great leader where there's Paul Dean and whether it's it's Brian Adams these guys run those bands and I mean that's what you want I don't want to be fighting with the drummer okay I I like it when there's a guy a leader of the band and the leader of the band is the key to me a breaking ax without a doubt you said the manager is the one friend the artist has through though to don't mean the record company that's just a another another another group coming through you know another act trying to make more money and yeah yeah yeah so my job my job is like it when he when Randy said you can say I want I want I want it's because when he started putting out records we we and we had to stay on top of them to keep up or keep Randy backman and backman turn over drive as a priority to that label okay if you're out of priority your slips lied in a way and we kept we kept on them I kept on them all the time to make sure that we're being covered and it was and it was a tough a lot of a lot of work Garvey here more of Tom's conversation with Bruce Allen is coming up in a hot minute also up on the feed right now is a conversation with Chloe Tang now her parents hope that she would pursue a life in classical music instead she moved to LA open for dual leap and is one of the hottest rising voices in R&B she talks about it with Tom power that chat is up right now there is more of Tom's chat with Bruce Allen coming up after a quick break on big lives we take a single cultural icon people like Jane Fonda George Michael Little Richard and we pull apart the story behind the image and we do this by digging through the BBC's vast archives discovering forgotten interviews that changed exactly how we see these giants of our culture we're here for the messy the brilliant the human version of our heroes I'm Emmanuel Jochi and Kai Wright and this is Big Lives listen to Big Lives wherever you get your podcasts I'm Garvey Bailey you're listening to Q you are in the middle of Tom's conversation with veteran music manager Bruce Allen after Bruce helped Bachman Turner overdrive to massive success in the United States he went on to make a huge mark with other Canadian acts in the 1980s the band Loverboy for example who went on to sell millions and I mean millions of albums but we're gonna pick things up in this conversation at the moment when Bruce met the artist who would make all of that previous success feel like a little warm up from 1983 that is Brian Adams with the gigantic cuts like a knife did I see that you sing backing vocals on that he will he'll say that it tees me a bit of but I might I might have been a he that's a real bunch of people stand around singing it yeah so I might have been I might have been in the line but it wasn't making much noise you're in the liner notes I tell you that much as a as a backing singer yeah were you there were you there were you there yeah yeah yeah that was you know we're we're rolling out of Adams when they bought Brian Adams man he works his butt off and he still does I've read an interview with him in their late 80s about you talking about him and you said like the one thing that Brian had that I admired because you said like I wasn't a big fan of his of his older music but the thing that I admired about him was tenacity yeah what what does that mean how do you how do you spot it how do you know that someone has tenacity like that just by this commitment okay he's his commitment no matter what kind of job it was or no matter how much money it was if it was going to help him move it forward we took it and here he took it and he when he went out there he played for a hundred percent no matter what it was for and and he you know he's he's also very fortunate that he we we bumped into mutt laying in mutt laying got involved writing songs with Adams and that mutt laying has got a track record from hell so he he he he he really helped us to and it probably helped Brian as a sure I was a songwriter or I know it did talk to me about tears are not enough talk to me a little bit about how that came about um well basically there was one what was it called in the States uh they did we are the world and then in the they did they do they know it's Christmas in the UK or that's yeah yeah okay so anyway that David Foster got up and said you know Bruce we should do some I'm not I've known David I managed him in a very very early when he was 19 but he said he said we should do we should do something I saw God you know and then he talked to two or three four people and he said let's do this we can do this we can do a Canadian version of this and we put that together I think our members I reminded as I was was reminded the other day by somebody who was there with me said we put that thing together in 11 days wow what do you what do you remember about being in that room I mean and was there Ann Murray, Johnny Mitchell, Neil Young, Gordon Life, O'Kitty Lee what do you remember about being in that room just I was just I remember seeing them all remember saying hello everybody was everybody it was like a giant love fest okay everybody was talking everybody you know had a great time blah blah blah and uh it was it was it was all I did was maybe take a deep breath because my office worked to get all those acts and it was hard and you know it's just a timing issue it's not that anybody didn't want to do it it's just so they could they could they fit it in and it kind of worked and it was fantastic and I thought it was a better song than the one in the from the international artists. Yeah I think I think tears and not enough is better than we are the world actually yeah I think I think it is and I should mention all Vancouver talent behind the boards Brian at Jim Balance yeah Paul Hyde Bob Rock big big Vancouver and David Foster who's from Vancouver I gotta move out there. I'm telling my diving I'm talking I say this but you don't listen. It feels like a million years ago now but um Brian you and Brian Adams took his career to such a gigantic level. He became more of a global superstar than a Canadian one and I don't have to remind you too much about this but I'll remind everybody else in 92 Brian had everything I do it do it for you. Yes it went to number one in 19 countries but it was major news in this country because he co-wrote it with a couple of non-Canadians it didn't qualify as Canadian content or cancon according to like the federal regulations which would dictate how much Canadian music is getting played on much music and and radio so I wanted to I'll talk about the sort of future of cancon in a second but here's what Brian had to say about that at the time. The Canadian government should just take a step out of music business entirely they should just get out of it. There's a lot of artists that have been successful in Canada that can't get arrested anywhere else in the world and it's because of this sort of what I think it's breeding media operating. Your take and Brian's take on cancon back then has always been really interesting to me and I've always been to ask you about it like we just even just listen to that what goes to your mind. I believe in what he says I think I think you know that there's a lot of people like it's like like the tragically hip okay everybody gets excited about the tragically hip. I don't get excited about the tragically hip. I believe the tragically hip was a band that went across the country and got funded by everybody here up in Canada and they got they went across the country down to done to done did a great job did this so on and so forth but you know what they didn't make an impact anywhere else they you know they didn't they just that's that's not what I think Brian Adams had ever had in his head. Brian Adams was brought up with a with a father who was a in a in a military and he moved around from country to country he'd been around the around the country. You've seen different things he wanted to be a big artist he wanted to be in Ingo to England. He wanted to go to Australia he wanted to go and he's still doing it to this day that's what he believes he that's what he believes is a success not just getting a government based back to chart to give you to make sure you can get on the playlist and that's where you get in Vancouver eventually you got in Canada. So your idea of success back then it sounds like even now is different than like the Canadian music industry. idea of success. Yeah, I'm sitting there doing something tonight and I'm going to give an award to, or I'm going to mention about the person getting an award coming up a person. And when I watch it all the time in the newspapers how they write it to them, I sit there and I say it always says that the tragically hip they make a line and then the next is the guys from the other boy and lover boy, I would sold a tragically hip a lot. I think they're talking about the importance of a band to like, because you're all making somebody important. But you're a proud Canadian. I know that. What makes somebody important? I'm not here to argue with you. But you're a proud Canadian and of course we're in this time of like elbows up and we're being proudly Canadian. There's something to be said, some would say there's something to be said for a band that sings about Canada and sings to Canadian audiences and is not necessarily about expanding to all around the world. Why wouldn't an artist want to expand all around the world? You and you tell me. I don't think anybody would want that. I mean I think the people want to take their music around the world. If I was an artist I sure would like to. So when you hear an artist say that no I'm just making art for the art for art's sake or I'm just making art because I want to have, I'm doing this for this reason. You think to yourself, I don't really believe it. I think it's a cop vote. It's interesting, Bruce. Interesting. But it's a cop out how? It's a cop out like there's more to it than just Canada. If you got some great music, share it. Get out there. What's interesting is that the cancon debate when I talk to kids, when I say kids, like people in their early 20s. Sometimes I got brought into a classroom in Victoria over Zoom a couple of weeks ago and the professor asked if I would explain cancon to them. They had no idea what it was. And I had to explain to them that there was a time when it still happens, but radio and television mandated a certain amount of Canadian content. And therefore a lot of the bands that I grew up with, I loved were Canadian bands, but I think I loved them because they were played on much music or I listened to them on the radio. And I had to point out to them that on Spotify there's no cancon. The can't be. You choose whatever you want to listen to. There's no necessity for some kind of, there's no apparatus by which there can be sort of like a, so first off, let me just ask you about that. Does looking at the music industry as it is right now with streaming with no, there can't be any imposition of like cancon regulations? Do you feel like this is a better way? Do you think cancon was just a bandaid leading up to this moment? I think bandaid allowed a lot of people to, a lot of the young artists to maybe get a shot. Okay, because they could pick up some of the money and give them a shot. But I think what I would do is something like that. Okay, you get three chances. You don't make it then you're not going to get funded anymore. You should be able to, I just don't like fighting against the government is funding stuff. I believe music is global and I think that's what we, as artists, try to, the artists I know want to do that. You believe, that's it. I get it now. So you believe music is global. You believe it? I do. If you're making music, you should try to make it as many people as you possibly can. Yeah, and you know something? I've seen Michael Boubley do go in all over the world and people loving it. And I've seen Brian Adams do the same thing. Randy did the same thing. A lover boy guy's did the same thing. And it's fantastic to see. I mean, Shania Twain. I mean, this is the squirrels all over the place. And that's what you want to do. Do you want to get your people to hear the music that they're doing? I think so. I'm preparing the folks here at the CBC to start their writing back to the letters we're going to get about that. I'm joking Bruce. But I do get a feeling that like, because I've known that about you before I even met you, that Bruce Allen is very outspoken. He'll say what it's on his mind, even if people don't want to necessarily hear it. Has being that way in a country that sort of prides itself on being more polite or reserved has that made your job as a manager more difficult or easy? Not more difficult. It's not more difficult. I mean, nobody's going to be hurt me by saying this stuff I say. But I think, no, I would think easy, right? Because you're going in here. I'm going to say the thing. This is what I believe in. And that's that's that. That's that. If you don't like it, lump it. Okay. This is the way I'm running my business. And this is the way you can run yours. But I already believe, boy, oh, boys, what do you need to see the Canadian guys out there doing great business? And there's a lot of them now, a lot more than when I started. Everybody's working for the whole evening. Everybody wants to do your best. Everybody's going off the deep end. Everybody needs a second chance. Yeah, just a bit of work and for the weekend by lever boy, one of the great bands that Bruce Allen managed in the 80s. And as you heard in the first part of their conversation, you'll know that Bruce Allen is often the loudest voice in any room he enters. He's never been afraid to call it like he sees it. And that sharp tongue has gotten him into a bit of trouble over the years. So what Tom wanted to know was, where did that unfiltered, outspoken attitude come from? And I have to say, he kind of surprised us with how open and vulnerable he got with his answer. Take a listen. I think I think my dad died when I was, when I was 14 and I think that I had a chip on my shoulder per for that. And I think that I worked hard at school and worked outside of when I people, what my doing jobs and stuff because I knew that nobody was going to help me. And I think that that's exactly what, and I remember being pulled aside by friends of mine who would, when I get on some tangent where I'm going ballistic over something, maybe I shouldn't have got that upset about. And they said, Bruce, for God's sake, okay, you've won. Don't worry. You've won. Stop it. And I've been told that to me a couple times. And I appreciate those people that stand up and say it because sometimes I, you know, you can get a little over the top. What did your dad do for a living? He was, he was an engineer on, on boat engineer and he worked for Imperial Oil and he, they took oil from up north in, in, in BC and took it sometimes all the way down to South American back. So he would work at, in sections like we'd be gone for two, two, three months. I'm, I didn't know your dad went young. I'm sorry, I didn't know them. I'm sorry to hear you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's, that's a, that's a real kickin' ahead all of a sudden, you know. You get up in the morning, go into see your dad and he's died overnight. Yeah. You know. Yeah. And I think, I think it colors your entire life. Do you think, I mean, my dad died young too, so I think about this a lot. Like, do you, how do you think it, like, what did that ship on the shoulder feel? Like, do you feel like it was like, oh, I need to go prove myself or I need to look after myself. I got to make a bunch of money or what? Well, that, definitely in the South. Nobody's going to look after me. Okay. No one's going to look after me. My mom's got to go out and get a job and dead of the, and I'm going in a neighborhood, the neighborhood, with, with, is going to, you know, when you come home, brew some school, make sure you're checking in the next door. And you know, all that stuff, you get, you get raised by a neighborhood. Okay. Thank goodness in those era, in that era. But I mean, I, I, I, I think it sticks with you. And I say, that's why people have said that to me. And I, and I sometimes, you know, I, I, I, I, I don't, I don't talk about it often. You ask, ask, ask it today. And I answered you. And it's, you know, it's, it's, it's a really interesting thing because somehow, you know, my dad dies and I'm, I'm 14 and, yeah, you know, and he's, what the hell? That's, that's tough to take. Yeah. I know. I know. I remember, I was, I was, I was in my early 20s. I wasn't that young. Yeah. But I remember feeling like, oh, I got to, I got to figure something out now. Yeah. That's exactly right. Yeah. And my mother wasn't working. I was at time when the father worked in the mother's day at home and all that. So my mom had to get a job and a, oh boy. He got a good sense of ethics about you too. I mean, like for people who only know you as, for people who are just getting to know you now, but, you know, you, you would have this reputation as someone who says, says what he means and, and it take it like it or lump it. I'm going to tell you know, you know, what I feel no matter what, even if you're, even if you're not going to be super happy with it. I have heard stories about like the ethic you have around you. Like, I heard the story that when you first were working with Michael Buble, he met with you. He had a couple of other managers. Someone involved with Barbara Streisand was talking to him. He was going to sign with another manager. He didn't really want to sign with you. And then he sat down with you. I think it was at the shark club and he had an existing manager in Vancouver. Yes he did. And he said to all these different LA American agents, I want to make sure this manager who helped me up to this point gets taken care of. And all of them said, forget that she got a move, who cares? You got to move on. And he said the same thing to you. I want to make sure this person gets taken care of. Apparently you said, well, how refreshing, finally a little bit of loyalty in this business. You would rather than about it. And I said, yeah, okay, I said, let's bring her in and she can do, she can, you know, try, sit and work out of my office. Did the same thing with Lou Blair. Lou Blair brought me the lover boy and Lou Blair stayed with me with lover boy forever. But you know, isn't it interesting that all those other managers are saying, cut them loose, forget it. Obviously something in you, whether that's from your parents or not, either. Even in you that way, no, that's not right. You got to be at least fair in this business. Yeah. I think so, okay? And she can be, she had the possibilities, maybe it'd been a great asset. Who might have sit there? I mean, he got Michael Bubley, he got Michael Bubley and to talk to me, that's pretty good. (laughing) I think, I mean, I will say Michael told me that story. And he told me it was a story of like, this guy has a reputation for me, and a hard-nosed fella, but that was, right away he said, as soon as he said that to me, I shook his hand and I said, I want you to be my manager. And he said, Bruce said to me, what are you doing? We just met. Are you really gonna be, shouldn't you be thinking about this a little bit more? No, yeah, I did say that more than that. I didn't say that, but I mean, and it was a tough one you see, and I have to say, and what really got me involved in it, I mean, I knew Michael, he just played around in clubs here, small clubs in Vancouver, but I used to look after David Foster, and David Foster was making that record, and David Foster is one of the greatest producers in the business, and definitely the best producer to ever come out of this country. And I sat there and I said, God, Foster, okay, now Foster took that shot. I can take that shot. That's me and Foster now, not me at some smuck that I don't know. I know David Foster, okay, and I know that we can work together, and I know David Foster knows how the system works. And that was, it was, it's not, it's not, you know, just always just forgot the song. I mean, Michael didn't, wasn't writing songs, David and him were choosing great songs to make an album, and that thing worked. And Michael's just, he's a great performer, really great performer, probably one of the best I've had by far. And he, he, you know, and taking, so it's me and, it was me and Foster and, and and and and Boobley. And that foster don't, but I never cut David Short because he's the guy who made the first three albums and to tell you that's the first right now, those albums are still some of the biggest albums that Michael has. ♪ There's a thing a coil of ♪ ♪ I just I can't handle it ♪ ♪ There's this thing ♪ - I'm not gonna go into the details of it 'cause it's not in my business and B, I don't think you're gonna tell me anyway. But I know you and Brian's stopped working together. - Yeah. - My question is how, how do you look back on that now, that relationship, how does it feel to come to an end of that? Like, how do you look back on those 40 years you guys had together? - I think I'm pretty proud of it. The kid worked his ass off. I got no complaints about what everything Brian Adams did. Nothing. He worked his ass off and he writes great songs and he puts together a great band and he works and he works and he works. And I have been blessed to have it for 42 years. - 42 years. - Yeah. I'm glad you look back on the finally man. - Oh yeah, oh yeah. I mean, hey, listen, Randy Beckman, I, you know, we don't do work together anymore. You know what I mean? I don't work with lover boy anymore. But I don't want to really. There comes a point and when maybe it's not working anymore. But I mean, the fact of the matter is that I have no bitches about any of those guys that there's a reason why bands or artists and management move on. But I'll tell you one thing and I'm the most proud of this 'cause I've never had a contract with anybody. I've never sued anybody. I've never been sued back. So I know how good a job I've done. - You've been, I'm afraid to ask, are you stepping back? I've heard you're stepping back a little bit. - I'm 80. Okay, give your head a shake. If you're not gonna take one step back. (laughing) - So you're, you last fall, was day-to-day operations of the agency to a new president, right? - Yeah, no, okay. I, he's president. He's coming in, yes, Paul Hagenson, as you know, it worked out live nation for 25 something years. And here's the deal. But what a move to get a guy who's in that business to now be helping me running that label. Sorry, running that management team. - So you took a bit of a step back, were you still involved with these clients? - Yeah, all the time, yeah. - I assume though you might have a little bit more free time on your hands these days. How do you wanna spend it? - I haven't, I haven't thought of that yet. (laughing) I'm sure my girlfriend's looking about, okay, now what are we gonna do? But I mean, I'm still gonna work every day. I don't want, let's not get carried away. Okay, I had to bring somebody in because I'm getting, I'm for straight, I'm getting older, that's it. I'm not gonna be there forever. Okay, and if there's nobody who can do it when I check out, then they gotta, my artists have a problem. My staff has a problem with this and that. And the staff's been very active in getting, working with Paul, they know Paul's a great talent. And so we're gonna be okay. It's not even a speed bump. And I'm really proud of that. And that's the way it should be. Bruce, congratulations on the lifetime achievement award. Thank you very much. - Thank you. - Just hope it keeps rolling. - Me too buddy, thanks for coming on. - Appreciate it. - Bye bye. (upbeat music) ♪ I'm going ♪ ♪ She said I've had a comment to me ♪ ♪ But I'm wanting it that way ♪ ♪ I think that any love is good love it ♪ ♪ So I took what I could get ♪ ♪ Ooh ooh ooh ♪ ♪ She looked at me with big right eyes ♪ ♪ And said she's nothing yet ♪ ♪ Baby you just ain't getting nothing yet ♪ A bit of Bachman Turner overdrive with you. Ain't seen nothing yet. Before that, Tom's conversation with a Canadian music manager, Bruce Allen, who was in our Vancouver studio. They spoke just before he received a lifetime achievement award at the departure music festival in Toronto. And that's it for the show today. I'm Garvey Bailey sitting in for Tom Power. Catch you next time. (upbeat music) ♪ I'm Garvey ♪ - For more CBC podcasts, go to cbc.ca/podcasts.