The Midterms' Legal Battleground

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Pete Heckset has been on the hunt for a leaker. Now he says they've got their man. And everyone's short on cash, but we all seem to be ordering more delivery. Doordash you typically think of restaurants. Instacart you typically think of groceries. What doordash's financial appetites tell us about the US economy? From ABC News, this is Start Here. I'm Brad Milky. If you've been watching the polls recently, you've probably gathered that Democrats have a very good chance at winning back the House of Representatives next Tuesday. Based on everything we're seeing, it would take a pretty large polling air across the country for Democrats not to gain the few seats they need. Your failed economy is on the ballot. The cost of living crisis is on the ballot. The Senate is less straightforward. There are lots of states in play, probably more than Republicans ever thought possible a couple years ago. But most of these are still within the margin of air, which means it's entirely possible that control of the Senate could come down to just one or two races. That's why you want to send me to the United States Senate. I'm going to be able to go in, sit down, talk to him, about the things that work for Michigan. Instead of sending our money abroad to drop bombs on other people and their kids, I would rather spend our money to build our schools here for our kids, right? Think about Michigan, where Republican Congressman Mike Rogers finds himself in a dog fight with a Democratic former public health official named Abdul-El-Sayed. The way national political figures are rushing in the Michigan gives you a sense, the issue could still be in doubt late into Tuesday night. Think about Alaska, where President Trump won by double digits two years ago. Well, if it's close with how spread out precincts are, counting there could well go into Wednesday morning or beyond. This week, when the New York Times reported that Democrats were allegedly actively involved in recruiting a guy with the name Dan Sullivan to potentially confuse voters over who is the current senator from Alaska, Republicans exploded. And now, with days to go, forget Battleground State, this is becoming a legal battlefield. Let's start today with ABC's Chief Washington correspondent Jonathan Karl, who's on the road in Michigan right now on the side of the road, John. We'll get to that contest in a second, but first, what do we know about these new investigations into the Alaska Senate race? Because we're talking about subpoenas and prosecutors now. Well, we have multiple investigations, Brad. You've got the Department of Justice saying that they're investigating this. We've heard that from Todd Blanche, even before the explosive story in the New York Times. But now, you've got also a state investigation. What it will amount to? Who knows? But I think that the way you have set this up is exactly the way to look at it. The fate of the Senate, the control of the Senate may well come down to Alaska. It's highly conceivable that we are waiting for the results of that race. And if it is really close, there is going to be, you know, a legal challenge here. Now, most lawyers, most legal experts will tell you that there is no role for the justice department. That this is something that would be adjudicated in the state courts. The state courts of Alaska have already said that there is nothing illegal about having this other Dan Sullivan on the ballot. So I don't think it's going to be necessarily ultimately a legal challenge. But boy, it's messy. That's my question, John. Like, are people confused and are there potential like legal ramifications? That could stick between now and next Tuesday? Or is this more about like, drumming up outrage, not just in Alaska, but perhaps nationwide, like a national rallying cry for Republicans? Brad, as you know, I'm not a lawyer, but my sense, and based on those that I've spoken to, is this is, you know, largely about drumming up the outrage. And look, and Republicans think this is a very powerful thing for them in the closing days, because it shows deception on the part of the Democrats. And look, it does. It doesn't show anything illegal. I haven't seen any evidence of that. Are Alaskan voters genuinely concerned? I mean, I don't know. I suppose a few could be two Dan Sullivan's. One of those Dan Sullivan's on the ballot says right there, Dan Sullivan incumbent. But look, it's a messy story for the Democrats in the final days. Is it illegal? You know, we can see anybody prosecuted over this? Or are we going to see results challenged? I think that's far from certain. They said they didn't do it, and we caught them cold. And Mary Heltola should resign from the race. This is going to be re-adjudicated, and we will have another decision come out. Mary Pletola is saying that her campaign has nothing to do with the campaign of either Dan Sullivan. It's a very interesting present tense. Has nothing to do with it? Oh, not has never had anything to do with it, right? And looking, it's clear that her campaign was involved in this effort. There's people on her campaign. There's just based on the times reporting, it was a specific effort on the part of the Democrats, including people at high ranks in her campaign. Well, and so let's talk about where you are. Let's talk about Michigan, because this also seems like the other state where Republicans are really rushing in with national figures saying, "Hey, we could win this race." And unlike a lot of the battleground states, this is a place where Democrats have been in charge. Republicans could actually flip a seat. That would be a huge deal for them. Are those efforts working? Well, here's what's fascinating, is you have the Republicans really on the defensive, and some of the, you know, deepest red states in the country, now South Carolina, Kansas, Ohio, Iowa. I mean, maybe even Mississippi where it seems closer than expected. And the two states where the Republicans see some real hope, I mean, not that they've written off those other ones, but where they really think that they're on the offensive, are Maine, which voted for Kamala Harris, and Michigan, which is a true battleground state, and not read by any means. So yes, Republicans think they really have a chance to not just stop the bleeding, but pick up a seat, making it that much harder for the Democrats to take control of the Senate. But is the cell like, "Hey, vote for Mike Rogers," or is it about Abdul Al-Sayed, who's a progressive, and also Muslim, which seems like it's become a talking point among some of these GOP surrogates, like, in and of itself? Yes, yes. I just interviewed Mike Rogers here in Kalamazoo, just days left. What's the closing argument? Well, you know, the good news is we have solutions for the biggest problems here. And I asked him, people are voting for you. How much of the vote for you is a vote for Mike Rogers, and how much of it is a vote against Abdul Al-Sayed? Well, I think every vote for Mike Rogers is a vote for Mike Rogers. But he acknowledged that there's a lot, he's getting a lot of support from diseffective Democrats, especially in the Jewish community, some in the African-American community in Detroit, who are not sold on El-Sayed, or think he's, you know, too far, too extreme. So, look, if you look at his campaign ads, there are some positive ads he's running, but the bulk of the ads are really harshly negative on Abdul Al-Sayed, and you certainly hear that when you hear, you know, the big national figures that are coming here to support him, especially Donald Trump. I'm here to keep a jihadist Muslim brotherhood member from becoming a United States senator. And he doesn't talk much about how great Mike Rogers is. He talks about, you know, he basically says El-Sayed is a jihadist. This is a word he's used. You know, so it's been a really, and by the way, he's not. There's no evidence of this at all. But this is what the campaign is saying. All right, John Carl, literally on the campaign trail right now in Michigan. Thank you so much, John. Thanks, Brad. Next up on Start Here, he was a decorated officer. Now he's been fired. The new drama unfolding at the Pentagon after the break. This show is sponsored by Zip Recruiter. The holiday season is a time when you start seeing hiring everywhere. We all depend on people and seasonal jobs that time of year, whether it's holiday pet centers, snowplow drivers or gift wrappers at the department store. 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That's zipfrecruiter.com/starthere. Meet your match on Zip Recruiter. This show is sponsored by Trust and Will. Let's talk about something no one really wants to talk about. What happens to us when we pass? Unfortunately, it's going to happen to every one of us. So if you want to make sure your family's protected, the way you would like them to be after you're gone, it's important to act ahead of time and document your wishes now. Clearly and securely, that's where Trust and Will comes in. Trust and Will offers affordable attorney-designed estate plans that you can create online in just minutes, giving you a lifetime of peace of mind. On their easy-to-use website, you can document your wishes for guardianship of children and pets, distribution of assets, and health care planning. It's designed to be easy to tackle on your own or with your partner, but if you get stuck, attorney support is available as an add-on. When you're ready, you can share access with trusted contacts. 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The point being, whenever you hear government officials sounding outraged about leakers, keep in mind they might be using these tactics to shoot themselves all the time. What does get trickier though are leaks about national security. We have to find that leaker because that's a sick person. Probably didn't realize the extent of how bad it was. I can't imagine. The administration is not going to tolerate leaks, especially from within the national security apparatus of the United States government. Now, theoretically, you're talking about details that might be secret to keep people safe. Again, sometimes there are good reasons to make those details public. Officials will sometimes claim they're dangerous when they're not, but when these are truly unauthorized, that's when the White House grows even more furious about breaking the chain of command. Well, this week, a decorated army general has been pushed into retirement for allegedly leaking details to the media. ABC Senior Pentagon reporter Louis Martinez is with us, Louis. What happened here? Well, Brad, we're talking actually about sex firing this officer who was Lieutenant General Brett Sylvia. He's, as you said, a decorated veteran from multiple conflicts in the Middle East over the last 20 years. And here he was as what's known in the Pentagon as the J5. Now, that's the office inside the joint staff that is responsible for strategy, plans, and policy. It's one of the two highly visible directorates inside the joint staff, the other one being the directorate for operations. So this is a very highly responsible role. This is a very senior position. But we should make, we should make clear that even though the title says plans, this is not the individual who is planning the war against Iran. What this general does is essentially he coordinates policy, and he coordinates strategic planning through the joint staff, and then that gets filtered down through the force. But again, we're talking about an individual who's highly respected. And so then we found out this very surprising news from a senior pending unofficial that he had been fired directly by Secretary Hexeth because an inquiry had determined that he had failed three polygraph tests and that he was determined to have been a leaker of classified security information to various media outlets, even going so far as to say that he was meeting with reporters outside of the Pentagon, given their new escort rules for press. So that's the gist of what's happened even more troubling for General Sylvia is that we are hearing from this pending unofficial that what's going to happen is that his case and the investigation is going to be transferred to the Justice Department for potential follow-up. So that's going to be interesting to see if any charges do result from this. It's possible that maybe nothing results from this. But what we do know is that depending on under Secretary Hexeth has really taken leak seriously. When someone leaks something, they do it with an agenda. And when you leak a portion of an intelligence assessment, but just a little portion, just a little portion that makes it seem like maybe the strike wasn't effective, then you start a new cycle. We knew that over the summer, maybe dozens of officers in the joint staff were submitted to these polygraph tests because they were trying to get at who was leaking information about the munitions. Remember we were talking about the shortfall of munitions, the air defense systems, the patriots, and the THATs. I was going to say what sort of information has been, as the White has been frustrated about getting out there. So the idea that we're running low on munitions is one of them. This is really one of the key issues that has really been bugging Secretary Hexeth, which is the issue that the United States munitions, stockpiles have been depleted. And we actually have a report from the, depending on the specter general saying that yes, there has been a shortfall of weapons. It has a result of them, the expense of these weapons being used against Iran and defending against incoming missiles and drones. But still, Hexeth has been very determined and he wanted to kill this narrative, which is more than in fact. And we're told by senior depending on official that some of the information that Lieutenant General Sylvia's alleged to have leaked included details about the war in Iran, about Russia and Ukraine and other things. And when you look at those two factors, those two conflicts, it's safe to assume that we're talking about our air defense systems. Well, and President Trump was asked about this. And he kept referring to General Sylvia as she. I don't know if that's because maybe Sylvia is a last name. But you could tell, like the White House does sound like they're planning on throwing the book at you. She's got problems. She's going to have big problems. She did well, very much looking for leakers. And she's going to have big problems, long-term problems. But in that last answer, Louis, I mean, you said it yourself, like some of these things are facts. They're just getting out into the public. The White House didn't want them there. Is that because of the narrative? Like you said, they're frustrated by sort of the political implications or like the way they look. Or are there real national security risks to some of this information getting out there? I think it's about national security because the numbers of fat missiles, the number of patriot missiles that are in the stockpile, that is classified, Brad. And so there is some justification in trying to figure out where these leaks are coming from. But at the same time, it is a fact that those numbers have been depleted because they've been expended to protect American troops in the region. That's a reality. But I think the concern was that this narrative that the United States didn't have enough to defend itself or potentially for future use against another conflict. And I think when we talk about another conflict, it's always about, okay, how many weapons can we keep in store in case we ever have to go into a conflict with China? And I think that's really the concern. Right. Like that's what you don't want. It's China going like, maybe now is the time to attack Taiwan. It's not like the US would get like that's what you don't want happening. That's exactly right. And I think that's been part of the concern from Hakseth and his team. But again, the reality is that when you have a war, you're going to be using up weapons. And when you use up weapons, that means that certain stockpiles are going to be depleted. And it turns out that these patriots and sad missiles are some of the most important ones that you need, given that this has really become like a long distance war. Although also tough to imagine other countries aren't already aware of the munitions situation. Like they're not waiting for reporters to tell them that. But still, no response from General Sylvia yet, the Trump administration's insistent that all this will be born out. Louis Martinez covering the Pentagon. Thanks, Fred. The food delivery market in this country is estimated to be worth up to a hundred billion dollars. I'm not even talking about the restaurant business itself or the grocery market. I'm talking just about food delivery. Getting a meal sent to your home or office does almost as much business here as the entire country of Samoa. The biggest of these growing companies is DoorDash. And yesterday, DoorDash offered to buy Instacart, the delivery service, usually tailored to grocery stores, for $17 billion. But this also comes amid questions about what exactly companies like these plan to charge you for a variety of services. Let's bring in ABC's Elizabeth Shoalsy, who covers business and economics, Elizabeth. Tell me about this deal. It's kind of a blockbuster deal, Brad, when it comes to two major players in the food delivery space. So DoorDash says it will buy Instacart in a deal worth $17 billion. And DoorDash in announcing this said that this is a move to try to bring consumers more stores to choose from. They say there will be opportunities for businesses to get into a bigger network, basically combining these two forces. DoorDash, you typically think of restaurants, Instacart, you typically think of groceries. Instacart, let's choose your bananas. Get 'em just how you like. This will mean one combined membership. But I think the bigger picture here too, Brad, is that this is a move that shows how much there has been consolidation in this space. We've already seen DoorDash kind of expand outside of restaurants with retailers. They see this at, it's a really tough business to just do restaurant delivery, margins are really tight. They want to expand out of that. They want to be like in the shipping gig, not just the food shipping gig. There's more opportunity and more ways to make money when you've got kind of delivery opportunities outside of just food and restaurants. And frankly, this is an attempt to try to compete with the biggest players in that delivery space, which are Amazon and Walmart. Well, but this is the thing, Elizabeth, the way that Amazon and Walmart seem to be so good at their jobs is they also know so, so much about what consumers are going to want. That's why Amazon seems to have everything in their warehouse that, like, I'm ready to buy, and that's why it's there, like, within a few hours or something. Yesterday, the FTC, the Federal Trade Commission put out a notice saying they've given word to several companies that they're sort of probing the idea of personalized pricing. And they specifically mentioned both of these companies. So are these companies just going to start charging us whatever like they think I'll pay based on my history? Right. So this is a huge topic that we have seen kind of bubbling up this idea of our companies using technology and even AI to charge you a different price than somebody else if you're buying the same thing at the exact same time. And what the FTC is saying it's going to look into this idea of personalized pricing. It issued these orders to Delta, United, JetBlue, Lyft, Uber, DoorDash, Instacart, Target, and Walmart. So a huge array of very well-known consumer companies there to look into whether they are using factors like they say your participation in a loyalty program or your personal data to charge different prices. Immediately, we are hearing from the companies that this is not something they do. Walmart had already been out there saying that it prices the product, not the person, all of the airlines, the lobbying group for the airlines said that they comply with federal laws. They do not engage in these pricing practices. Instacart also put out a statement saying that does not engage in surveillance pricing. What this underscores are concerns that as more people are buying everything in apps and sometimes now as these apps are merging Brad and one super app, the idea is that those companies have so much of your personal information and that personal data is currency. I don't know what anyone else is paying because I'm buying it on my phone or whatever. It's not a price tag on the shelf. Getting to the bottom of how this technology is used, the FTC says it wants to look into that. Companies are of course denying that they're doing this in the first place. I do also wonder if this kind of tells us anything about where the broader economy is heading because we keep talking about how everything costs too much but apparently we're all happy to pay a premium for stuff to get to us. That's why DoorDash is doing so well. Is that why I looked up yesterday and saw that the national economy is actually growing at a pretty solid clip Elizabeth? Why are these numbers doing so well when everyone's talking about how terrible the economy is? Look, people are spending Brad and it has been this paradox that we've seen, frankly, for years now, that even though people say their finances are terrible, they're really gloomy about the economy in their own financial situation. They are still spending. Prices are getting out of control. I go to the grocery store and I have to pick and choose what I want. I can't get everything. Part of what this is is that when you look at this report card of the economy that came out yesterday, GDP, it's that people are paying higher prices. So that boosts spending numbers when you're paying more. That shows up in dollars being spent in the economy. That boosts consumption. Looks, it looks good for an economist to be like, yeah, more money out there. Cool. More money is sloshing around in the economy. But also part of that is because prices are higher. Something needs to change this gas at the price it is. You walk in a grocery, you're trying to take care of your family. One notable data point that we got in addition to just the overall strong consumer spending numbers is that people are also dipping into their savings more Brad, which shows that part of how people are affording these higher prices is by saving less money. That's okay to a point, you know, you can only dip into your saving so much and if your income isn't keeping up, it's harder to absorb those higher prices. The other part of why the economy is doing so well and it's hard to kind of explain how important this is is AI. And we talk about it a lot, but this data puts it into perspective, Brad. Half of all of the growth in the economy for the most recent quarter was business investment and what that means is spending on AI. Data centers, the build out of, you know, whatever the kind of infrastructure is needed to power cloud and AI computing, that is showing up very clearly in the data and that is keeping, that is giving a boost to the broader kind of economic picture. And that's a good thing. When you got companies spending in the economy, you want to see businesses investing. Of course, the concern is this is so much money that's being invested. Is that an investment that's ultimately going to pay off? Wish I had the answer to that. I would be probably a lot richer than I am right now. There's a big debate about a bubble on Wall Street that is not mine to decide. But in the meantime, though, I do think it's helpful. Like we hear like GDP is up more than expected. That sounds great, but there are so many caveats here. Elizabeth Shullsie, thank you so much. Thank you, Brad. Okay, one more quick break. When we come back, while we're talking about rising oil prices, around the world in 80 grand barely begins to cover it. One last thing is next. Today I want to tell you about our friends at Lug. If you're traveling the season, whether you're seeing family or catching some sun in a tropical destination, Lug can help you and your essentials get everywhere you need to go. Lug makes sturdy premium quality hard-sided wheelie bags for all kinds of travel. The hard shell means your stuff stays protected no matter what. 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That's avocado green mattress.com to get up to 20% off avocado green mattress.com. And one last thing, talk all the time about the biggest financial commitment most Americans will ever make in their lifetime is their home, their home and their car. Well, it's especially true for seniors, right? Think about retirement homes. Now you're potentially talking about putting your life savings into a place that's not just a house, but a community center, a food hall, and in some cases a medical facility all at once. Sounds like a lot of pressure, but you know what could make the whole thing way more fun? Put your retirement home on a cruise ship. For the last year and a half, people like Paul and Lynn Montoya have been traveling the world on a colossal cruise ship called the Villa V Odyssey. We've had 17 months of going to the most amazing places and meeting the most amazing people. Paul's 68, Lynn's 64, and they decided to take the plunge on this non-traditional retirement plan in which customers basically buy a room on the ship and spend upwards of three years going from port to port. The ride spent much of the last year in the Americas. This year they made it to Asia. And in some ways, this is how I could imagine spending retirement, right? The itinerary's almost too good to be true. Well, this week that cruise came to a halt in Cambodia and residents were suddenly told to pack their bags. We gave it to more than 24 hour notice. So more than this, we were not in the possibility to provide more. The firm behind this cruise confirmed what Paul and Lynn had feared. They've simply run out of money. Months before things began to deteriorate when the ownership of the ship began to ask for money to continue on to other destinations. They saw this coming too. At first, the couple said the food started getting noticeably worse. Activities were scaled way back. Then organizers started asking them for more money. Keep in mind, they were already paying 6,000 bucks a month in fees in addition to the price of their room. It began probably in April when they first asked for a fuel loan. That's right, a fuel loan. And that's what's notable about this. No one was claiming this was a scam. Everyone on board agrees the reason this had become untenable is the skyrocketing price of boat fuel. When the war broke out and we saw the fuel cost going up, then we decided that we needed to step up for that. That was part of being a resident and part of this community so we could continue traveling and that money is now gone as well. Since the Iran war started, the company says the price of fuel per cabin has quadrupled. They say they're still hoping for financing, but in the meantime, all customers have had to disembark. And by the way, this Cambodian town, not known for being particularly convenient to get too or away from. They will now be responsible for getting themselves their belongings and in some cases their pets back to their countries of origin. In the meantime, the Montoya say they'll be okay. They had budgeted 6,000 bucks a month for expenses, so now they'll be able to put that toward their next accommodations. Plus, they say they've already learned more lessons overseas than most people learn in a lifetime. It's like the amazing race for retirees. Hey, if you've got a great costume, your family, your kid, your dog for Halloween, send them to @bridemilkey on Instagram and I'll go through them this week and we'll see who gets the start here staff pick for Best Costume. Start here is produced by Jen Newman, Anthony Ali, Aaron Ferrer, Emily Schatz and Vika Aaron Sen. Ariel Chester is a social media producer, Josh Kohann is director of podcast programming. I'm our managing editor. Thanks to Jon Newman, Terry Gimble, Amy McNif and Katie Dendas, special thanks this week to Mike DeBuskey, Tommy Brooksbank, Will Gretzky, Clark Benson, Guy Davies and our intern Angel Vadella Psychon, I'm Brad Milky, I'll see you next week. Last October's brazen daytime heist at the Louvre was shocking. Now, nearly a year out, there are still critical questions to be answered. Where did they go? And second, where did they come from? In this series, I'll take you inside the events of that day, like you've never heard them before, through the eyes of the people who lived them. We'll now add free on Amazon Music.