The Mecca of Animal Rights: Inside the AVA Summit | Ep. 118

Näetkö mitä just tapahtu? En, valinselkä sohontaa. Sovin asunto esittelyn huomiseksi. Oho, oho! Sujuu kuin Sato. Huokraa elämäsi koti. Sato Pisteffi. Välkellä, että viiginusriin. Today, we will be talking about the Mecha of Animal Rights. The event of the year where all the most influential pro-animal organizations, donors, and activists gather to build the future of our movement. I am talking, of course, about the animal and vegan advocacy summit. It is the reason why I have not been posting episodes the last couple of weeks. I was busy preparing and traveling to this year's edition of the summit, located at the Sheraton Center Toronto Hotel. Today, I am telling you all you want to know about the AVA summit. I am opening the doors of this private event to you, so you can feel like you were there yourself. The next event is promised to be the biggest one ever organized yet. At the heart of Mexico City, so maybe this episode will convince you to start saving for that trip. And to discuss this topic, I have with me the two people with whom I spent most of the event, Andrea Diaz, Executive Director of Dharma Voices for Animals, and Katie Nolan, Communication Director of Dharma Voices for Animals, Andrea Katie, welcome to the Vegan Report. Thank you. Thanks for having us. We're now out of the bee here, finally. Woo! Yes, second, though. So we were there to represent Dharma Voices for Animals, and the good work we are doing, turning Buddhists and Buddhist institutions, vegan, because yes, most Buddhists are not vegan. Yet, by the way, this podcast is the reason why I shall in love with Dharma Voices for Animals. In episode 30, I interviewed venerable Ajan Sonu, a vegan monk. It is one of the most popular episodes of the show. And during the interview, Ajan told me about Dharma Voices for Animals, and their good work of mobilizing Buddhist communities for the sake of animals. I connected with them, became a volunteer and donor, and eventually started fundraising for DVA. And I'd love to invite you to join us. Dharma Voices for Animals is mold and just an impactful organization. It's also a vibrant community grounded in compassion, kindness, and insured commitment to helping animals. If you become a monthly donor today, you'll not only make a lasting difference in the lives of farmed animals, but you'll also receive a special gift. A limited edition print by the renowned wildlife artist Karl Branders. Karl has generously donated 100 beautiful prints, each valued at over $100, to think the first 100 supporters who pledge at least $20 per month to Dharma Voices for Animals. It's a stunning piece of art that will bring beauty to your home, while serving as a daily reminder of your commitment to creating a more compassionate world for animals. If you'd like to become a monthly donor and receive one of these exclusive prints, you'll find the link in the description of the episode. Thank you so much for your support. It's day two of the event, Friday, May 22. It's the afternoon and we are all busy with the event when all of a sudden we hear a fire alarm and everyone stops before walking to the exit. Later I heard some activists say I was scared that it was maybe an active shooter situation or maybe a bomb threat. That made me think, if someone did the horrifying thing of bombing that hotel, I'm certain it would have set this movement back 10 years. The leadership of the biggest animal rights organizations, all the biggest funders, all the lawyers and researchers there, gone. No more vegan reports, no more Dharma Voices for animals too. Andrea Katie, tell me, is it still worth going even with the risk of some of those things happening? Let me just say to you that I think it's not likely that this would happen, but still it's a risk. Definitely, Katie, feel worse. Yeah, absolutely. I think 100% worth the risk and I'll just say it now. I don't know if you can hear the scratchiness in my voice. We've been joking a little bit about the AVA plague before this call and another risk about being around a whole group of people is that you can get sick. I'm a little sick still from the AVA summit, but a small price to pay for being at this event telling you it's truly life changing. Worth the risk. I can say, I don't know if I can say this, but I think moving the event to Canada just drastically reduces the risk of many of those things that you mentioned. When I heard it, I wasn't afraid at all. I think if we were in Washington or LA, I would have had that concern, but leaving the U.S. those concerns off to leave. No fear there. I will say I have had that thought of animal agriculture really wanted to get to us. This is one place that they can get us all. That's kind of in the back of my mind, but the benefit that you get from meeting like minded people and while we're all fortunate that we can connect virtually, there's something so different and magical that happens when you're in person and you come across folks that may have never been on your radar. It's a million percent worth it. I highly encourage folks to attend, especially in Mexico. Oh my gosh. This was new this year. I believe at registration, you had to show your ID in order to get your name tag. That was a little nerve wracking, sort of like, "Oh wow. We're upping security. This event actually may be on Big Ag's radar." I think there is that little bit of nervousness of like our, are there folks trying to infiltrate and figure out what we're discussing and what we're planning? I think it's more of a, this is a nod to how successful our movement has become that Big Ag is noticing these events and we're upping our security. So, that was something too. Yeah, I think you mentioned something about that, Katie. We both know someone who is working in the world of farming and that person could have been like a Big Ag spy, yet no one flagged the presence of that person and he was admitted into the AVA summit. Yeah, yeah. So, my partner actually came with, that was Mark's first AVA summit and he works for the Northeast Organic Farmers Association and so literally could have been representing farmers coming into this event and there were no flags raised, no questions. Obviously, that was not the intention of going to the event but certainly that could have been anyone there. We could have had Big Ag folks amongst us and not even known. Yeah, the likelihood is high that there were big Ag folks there. I know this is on their radar. I used to go to the Animal Liberation Conference by direct action everywhere, every year in California and they called out a few folks who worked for Animal Ag and it's expected we're doing amazing things that's impacting their bottom line so of course they're going to be there but as long as we're safe, I think it's okay. They're going to know what we're doing. They're not going to know all of it but it's inevitable. Don't you think that just being present there and witnessing all the love and all the engagement and compassion of people maybe they will change team and adopt mechanism is that a possibility or just being really too naive? It's not impossible but money makes people do really bad things and so sometimes I think maybe they're discouraged from following their compassion. Oh yeah. Who knows maybe we should invite a subset of Big Ag folks every year and try to change their minds. I love how you're now proactively thinking about this Katie. So you mentioned how it was worth it going. There is first of all economic barrier to that. How much should people save to go to the AVA summit? How much does it cost to attend and to travel aspect to a new injury? You're really good at that and you've traveled to Mexico before. So what's the expected twice dag of visiting the next AVA summit? That's a good question. And I really think it's going to be different than in the past. In the US and in Canada, things are more expensive. And excuse me, cost of living is more expensive. It's more expensive to get the food and to rent the facilities. But I think in Mexico and in Mexico City, it will be more affordable. I'm hoping they can bring the price down. Right now, if we're not doing early bird, I believe it was about 425 person to attend AVA, which is a big cost barrier for a lot of folks in the animal rights community. So I'm hoping with the move to Mexico, the cost can be cut maybe in half. I will say, if you work for an organization, likely they're going to cover your costs, which is incredible, but they also have travel grants. Some of our folks have received travel grants too. So I highly encourage folks to look out for that so that you can go. And in flights into Mexico, depending on where you're coming from in the world, tend to be more affordable. Housing is more affordable. Food is incredible and more affordable. So it'll be more accessible this year than any year before in North America. Yeah, seconded. And I think, I think this year, I budgeted maybe $1,000 or something like that, between the ticket and the stay. And obviously, DBA covered a lot of that. But if you're going on your own, I know they do have discounted rates for folks who are not employed in the movement or who don't make as much money. You can also get your registration waived if you were a speaker. So both Ryan and I actually spoke at the event. And so we got our registration fee waived, which is at like $300, $400 upfront cost. So there's ways to make it affordable, but it is something you do have to budget for. And I will also mention there is food served, breakfast and lunch every day at the event. So that's nice that that's sort of rolled into the cost to you only have to worry about feeding yourself dinner and everything's vegan. So that's really awesome. Yeah, and you can even cut down on housing costs by using the woova woova app. So you can connect with folks who are looking for people to room with as well just to bring down that cost. Yeah, let's talk more about the food and also the who have later. But first, let's dive into why we should visit the ABA summit. So we had an obvious reason and it was to represent Dharma voices for animals. But what about people who are not associated with an organization? Or maybe even people who are not activists, just ethical vegans who are not really associated to an organization or doing active street activism or something like that? Should they still consider visiting the ABA summit? Absolutely. It's gosh, I just think back to the first time I went and I was employed through an animal rights organization, but it was life changing. Go into this event. So if you're if you're vegan or just like minded or interested in the animal rights space, there is nothing like being around almost a thousand people who think and feel the same way that you do. And I think it's an opportunity to break into the space, to make connections, to find employment. If you're looking to work in the animal rights space or even just to stay up to date with what organizations are working on. Definitely. Employment is a big one. It's really hard to get a job in the animal rights community or the professional animal rights space. It took me two years of applying for every organization for me to get a call back from DBA. And so it's a great place to get some FaceTime with some folks and meet the people who are doing the work. So when it comes to the actual lectures or the presentations, the speakers, there's so much information that we're being given on so many topics. It's so valuable. So I highly recommend folks to go. Yeah, we should say that the AVA Summit is a big schedule of conferences, talks, presentations, workshops given by professional animal rights activists. And then you have meetups. So the meetups, it's different from the presentations because anyone can create a meetup. And it can be about almost any topic out there. And you have all of those details in an app called Hoova. And so you can organize your visit at the AVA Summit. You can fill up your schedule with presentations and attending different meetups. And some of them are amazing opportunities to connect with people. Others are about promoting yourself as a possible employee. There are forums on the Hoova that allow you to connect with employers and for other opportunities with the sort. So it is really well organized. And yeah, I guess one fear people might have is, would I feel isolated there? I find a crowd of friends or like, I'm just that weird kid in the cafeteria eating alone. What do you say about that? I think we're all that weird kids. But the good thing is we can be that together. Like there's so many times where we join folks, especially in the lunch setting. You just sit down with anyone and you get to learn this work that you never knew existed. And people are very welcoming. We've met so many people that we never knew before this event. And so I don't think you'll be alone. But if you are doing activism, you'll likely find at least one person that you know there. And you won't have to worry about being isolated at all. You're around people who love the world and love animals and love what you're doing. And it's really easy to make friends and communicate with people. Definitely. And I'd say I have that same sort of feeling. You're in the lunch line and there's tons of people and you get your plate. And it's that same feeling. I don't know if folks can relate that you walk in the high school cafeteria and you're like, which table do I sit at? And then you walk in and there's folks who wave you over. And after going to ABA a couple of years, I know how like a subset of friends who I see every year at ABA and we connect there. So it's really cool to get to meet new people. And in terms of the meetups, they're really useful. We created one for DBA actually. So we had like a Buddhist meetup and we invited folks to come and share a bit about themselves or a bit about what DBA is doing. And it was just so great to be able to open the door to collaboration with folks who we didn't even know were out there. And they may not have known that DBA was out there either. So really awesome. That's a great segue to my next question, which is what were we up to as, you know, representing Dharma voices for animals? What was our goal going into this ABA summit and what was our experience? Yes. So a big part of what we were doing there was fundraising. So I think a lot of organizations go with different agendas. Are we tabling? Are we speaking? Are we trying to go to as many talks as possible? Are we trying to connect with folks? So one of the big things we did was get to connect with a lot of funders and donors who are interested in exploring new areas of funding. And because we're the only Buddhist animal rights organization in the world, I think we're appealing to folks who are trying to fund both more interesting and unique work and also work that has the potential to be extremely impactful. And there's what, 320 million Buddhists in the world or something like that who already have this foundation of compassion. And we're just trying to help them to connect their compassion to farmed animals and realize that through their diet change. So that was a big part of what we were doing there. And Buddhist institutional advocacy is really overlooked in the traditional animal rights space because we are such a specific niche. And so it was a good opportunity to get, like I said, some FaceTime with those donors and show them the work that we're doing and how it's so impactful. And like Katie said, there's so many Buddhists in the world that have that foundation. All we have to do is connect the teachings to their daily eating habits. And, you know, we don't have to introduce compassion like we do in the traditional animal rights space. And that's what really makes us different. But it, Dharma Voices for Animals has been around as an organization since 2014. And we were very, very, what's the word? Let's see. Not lucky because it was worked for. But Dharma Voices for Animals, how should I say that? We were lucky to have the support of, uh, fortunate, fortunate. Okay. Okay. So, yeah. So Dharma Voices for Animals, we were really fortunate that we had some really great support. In the past, we had funding from Open Philanthropy. We wore an animal charities evaluators recommended charity for two years. And that was incredible. And we're so grateful. But now with that support gone, we have to meet new supporters. to continue this work because it is so important. We are the only organization doing this. So it was very vital for us to present our work to funders who are interested in what we're doing and show them how it can be really impactful in our movement. - Yeah, because I think of someone who knows nothing about Buddhism. And there's this small organization, animal rights organization, and we're there, and we're telling them, "Hey, you should invest in us "because we are, and I love how you have developed "that bitch, Andrea where you say, "we bridge the teachings of compassion for animals "that are found at the core of Buddhism "with the daily practice more specifically "around food of Buddhist communities." And you take this as so niche. (laughs) And so our challenge is to really convince them that, yes, it is niche, but it has so much potential. And we had to develop all sorts of tools. We went there ready with, like I said, pitches, and is that the plural of pitch? Do we say pitches? Okay, pitches and letters of recommendation that we got from top animal advocacy researchers, but also leaders in Buddhism, flyers with visuals and nice visuals. We really did our homework and got ready for those meetings. And they're very intense. Oh yeah, definitely. I can't even be on like Shark Tank, you have to do all of this work to present your product, but instead of your product, it's your service, your service on how you're going to help the animals. And so it's very much like that you're meeting these folks, and it can be intimidating. These folks are responsible for a lot of money, but then you realize they're regular people like you and they actually have the same interest in you. And you don't have to sell the idea of I'm trying to help animals for this reason. They know the reasons. So once you get over that initial intimidation, and it's always there, you know, I've been doing this for many years, and it's always there, but it's just, it's exciting. It becomes an opportunity of here's how we're going to do the work that we need to do and it becomes fun. Yeah, I think as someone who hasn't done a lot of fun or meetings, this was, I had done them last year, but was going into them very, very nervous. And the first couple were like, oh gosh, like what if I say the wrong thing? What if we don't get funding because of this? And then by the end, you're, you know, you're chatting with the funders. Like, how's your ABA going? And go, one of the people was like, oh, I love the color of your phone case. And we talked about our favorite colors for a while and bonded over that. And it's, it is just really cool to see that these funders who are behind the scenes, who you never really get to interact with during our day to day work, you get to see them at ABA and realize they are just people to who, like Andrea said, have similar interests and passions to us. So that was a really cool experience. Yeah, Shark Tank is the best analogy for this. What really is because you know, we have limited time, like maybe maximum 30 minutes. And that would be a lot. It's usually around 10, 15 minutes with one funder. And you have that time, that limited time to just, you know, make your point and answer the questions they have. And then how do you know that it went well? Because in Shark Tank, you know, they make an offer right away. But in the world of philanthropy, doesn't work like that. You know, usually the offer comes after. But how do you know in the moment that you made a good impression? Well, Ryan, as our development consultant, you taught us how we know that it went well, because we didn't know. And that's if they asked a lot of questions, if there is a genuine interest in your work. And so, you know, we are really fortunate that a lot of the funders were asking us really unique and encouraging questions, not just what's your bottom line and how much you're missing, but they wanted to know more about the specifics, what's the culture like? How are we utilizing folks who live in the countries that we operate in because outside of the US, we're in Thailand, Vietnam and Sri Lanka? How do we utilize their knowledge to better our projects? And so once you start getting those, you know, that get the questions going, then we realize, okay, that there is a genuine interest. And that's always a good sign. Another aspect to this is, you know, being able to meet the team behind the organization. And, you know, it applies to every organization out there. You're at the AVS summit and you meet the executive directors behind the big animal rights organizations and their staff. And you get to chat with them and you think, "Oh, there are faces behind the logo. "There are personalities." And it's the same with Dharma voices for animals. Like we had this chance of meeting the funders and introducing ourselves saying, you know, here's Katie. She's in charge of communication. And here's our president. He's among. And you can talk with him. Like, and there's this interaction and talking about communication. It's a much richer communication format than a Zoom talker, a phone call. - What was something else that was really cool as our coworker, son from Vietnam, was actually able to join us. It was her first time in North America. And just an incredible opportunity to be able to connect with her. And for her to be able to connect with other people doing this work in a setting like ABA. So that was really great to meet her in person. - It just makes it real when you get to see all these folks and find out who's doing the work because it's really easy to feel isolated in the work that we do. Many of us work remote. We're home all day. I mean, I have my cats and my dog, which is amazing, but in reality, we're not connecting with these folks. We are seeing the logo. We're seeing the campaign. So just to see them and realize there are humans out there who are in the same, they're like minded humans out there who are doing the same work and they're there for you. They're definitely on board with what you're trying to do. It's just nice to make that connection. - Yeah, and we would never have met son if it wasn't for this ABA summit. Unless, you know, whatever was planning on traveling to Vietnam. And I know you do an Asia tour of DVA offices in Asia and Korea. But, you know, son, it was her first time, I think, in North America. It was also the first time in Toronto for many folks that attended the ABA summit first time in Canada. And so, you know, that was the one chance in a lifetime to meet certain people there. - I think the traveling too is a really awesome part of it getting to see new parts of the world, especially if your work is willing to bring you there. That was my first time in Toronto getting to see a new city and I've never been to Mexico. So, really excited for next year in Mexico City. So that's just an extra perk to it all too. - Yeah, I'll never forget seeing sunspace when we walked into Niagara Falls. It was like a kid in a candy store. It was so beautiful to witness. And we were both skipping and so excited. And that's just, you know, part of it. Like Katie said, you get to go to these new places and see these new things that maybe you wouldn't have been able to see before. I mean, I'm not too far. I'm right next door to Canada. And I've never been to Toronto. I've never seen Niagara Falls. It was really beautiful to have that experience. - Yeah, I never been to Toronto even though I'm Canadian. And it was a conscious choice. I mean, I have to say, I did not like the choice of location. Toronto is this urban jungle. I kept complaining during the entire event. It was cold, it was great. We were in the financial district and there were like no birds, no plants. So yeah, I felt like this was not like the real Canada that I know the green and wild Canada I'm used to. Oh no, I'm better than Washington DC, I would say. (laughs) Especially now. But Ryan, would you like to tell everyone what your recommendation is for Canada next time? (laughs) - Montreal people, if the AVA gods maybe one year do it in Montreal. It would have been fantastic. You know, Montreal is such an amazing city with such a lively vegan scene. So yeah, Montreal, definitely. Montreal, 2028. So you both attended more ABA summit events than I did. I attended two. The one from last year in Los Angeles and now this one in Toronto. Which one was your favorite? I would have to say this one. I think the atmosphere felt so much different. Even though I know you said it was gray and gloomy and a little rainy. I'm from the desert, so I really appreciated the gray gloom and rain. But it just felt as an organization or in a different place than we were in the last couple of years. And so it felt more cohesive. And there was a lot of excitement there that maybe wasn't there in the past. And then, you know, Ryan, having you as our development consultant, you just made the sub-rees because you're so great at communicating with folks and getting us meetings. And this is the most meetings DBA has had since I've been with DBA in 2022. So I think there's more opportunity for funding to come in, but also just the connections that we made are incredible from this last year. So definitely Toronto. Gosh, that is such a tough question. I feel like all the ABAs are so different in different places and our organization, as Andreas said, was in different places at all those. And my first DBA, I wasn't with DBA yet. So I guess I was kind of on the cusp. I got to meet with everyone, but I hadn't officially started yet. So I was in very different stages of my career at DBA. I think I'd honestly have to say last year's LA was my favorite, just really getting to connect with our team in a way I hadn't before. And also to explore LA, we had some fun little outings and that definitely, I think, puts it on top. Yeah, we may or may not have accidentally stolen a car. Maybe a story for another episode. Yeah, let's cut that for Nora. Say that for us, it'll be fun. Yeah, we had a wonderful outing last year. I think it was the last day of the ABA summit in the afternoon. We went to the beach and just enjoyed the view with a coffee. It was like a simple, we did not go for a swim. And I thought I think everything was closed because of bacteria and infection or something like that. But we enjoyed the view and the good weather and we had a nice cold coffee. So it was nice. It was. Yeah, and we were able to talk in an exchange. Yeah, I remembered that fondly. It really makes a difference even within your organization to have that time with each other to connect and talk about things and do things that are not work related. It's so important for your work relationships, but also your personal relationships. You know, when you have a genuine like for the people that you work with, you're invested, you want to do more for them. And so it's really, really invaluable to have that time. And I love how everyone attending the ABA summit is contributing to the success of the event. And we were actively contributing to the ABA summit. I mean, I gave a talk about fundraising. Katie, you gave a talk about amphibians. Andrea, you hosted that meetup of Buddhist animal activists. Our president, Banti Satti, organized and hosted two meditation retreats. I mean, we were there to also offer a great experience to many more people, which is very awesome and generous. I love that. Yeah, it's and Katie hosted the breakout room. Just. You had it organized. What an act. It's open. But like you're saying, it's a it's a collaborative process. It really is. Different people are bringing different things. I mean, there was like a yoga session. There's a soccer game. There was a breakout group. There was a breakout session for our friends at Unchained News. And they were just talking about, you know, how media should be held accountable for falsely portraying veganism. And they came out with a coalition where they're going to be actively holding media accountable. So there's just so many amazing things that happen through ABA. And everyone brings their own unique spin on it. There's so many interesting meetups. Like, there's always group runs. There was a group that went climbing. I think a couple of years ago, I joined a group of vegans interested in punk rock. They get really specific. There was a tofu sampling event, I think, two years ago. One that was about an event for tea lovers and vegans got together and shared different types of tea that they brought to this meetup. There's so much. I think I always have sort of almost an identity crisis going to ABA of like, okay, we're all, it's this beautiful thing where we all care about animals, but then like, oh gosh, like, we're still all so different and everyone has their own unique interests within that. And it's really easy to connect with others in a more specific way too. Yeah, last year there was a meetup about virtual maps. That's one of my interests. And I was like, of course, I'll go and talk about virtual maps with other people. And we had a great time. For everyone, there is something there. And if you don't need that, something, you create that something and you'll find your people. It's beautiful. I'm curious, have you heard of couples getting created at the ABA summit? Because I've heard of friendships, starting at the ABA summit, great friendships. But what about the romantic side of things? I don't doubt that it happens. I think there was in fact a group that was created last year for dating. So I'm sure it happens. I don't think anyone goes there with the intention of finding a partner. I'm sure I hope not. My husband and I met doing animal rights activism. We met feeding, giving water to cows outside of a slaughterhouse. And so it's very possible. I'm really beautiful when it happens. But who knows? It's meant to be. It's meant to be. And if you're going to find a vegan partner anywhere, it's probably going to be the ABA summit. Yeah, we've seen some interesting meetups posted for sure in terms of dating. So they are out there. We have a friend who I will leave anonymous, who won't mention their name. But they're very interested in meeting someone at ABA. And we had discussions about putting up a singles meetup. So it's definitely possible. And I think there are people out there looking for partners. What a beautiful, meet cute story of my partner and I met at the ABA conference. So yeah, maybe next year that you'll be waiting at the ABA. Oh my gosh. ABA weddings. Marriage proposal. They can happen. Yeah. And I know who you're talking about, Katie. Yeah, he had a crush on someone he met there. And he did not want to tell us who that person was and he was like, I'll certainly not tell you Ryan because you know everyone in this movement. I was like, that's a good reason for telling me. I can give you some information about that person. I think you ended up finding. Sorry. I think you ended up finding out anyway who it was, Ryan. Yeah. He's not good at keeping secrets. Did he make a connection? Yeah, yeah. The connection was made. Potential future plans in the work. So who knows we could have an ABA relationship to share about next year. Okay. Let's talk about the food now. Because I really think it's a big highlight of the event. Except for one lunch. The rest of their food offering was just amazing. And it was also the case at my last ABA summit. It's just the best vegan food ever. You know that those are fellow vegans that have thought about the menu and what to make available for all of us. But what did you think about this year's food offering? Pretty delicious. I'd say it's tough. I don't want to oversell it. I think you know it is food served in a facetile out of hotel. But I think those types of things normally, it's like you've go up there as a vegan and you're like, oh great, I can have a little bit of salad and maybe a slice of bread or something. And there's nothing like being with a huge crowd of people and everyone can eat everything that's up there and there's gluten free options, everything's vegan and I am such a sweet tooth and there's dessert every day. And let me tell you these little cheesecakes that they had on the last day and like all kinds of flavors, I sampled every single one. They were so good. So there's a lot of good food for sure. And it's really nice that you don't have to worry like, can I eat this? Is this going to be okay? So taking that out of the equation is lovely. And there's a lot of variety, which is really good. Something for everybody, really balanced meals. Like you said, Ryan, people put a lot of care and attention into creating this. And I too was a fan of the desserts. I probably had more than I should have, but it's really good. My favorite is always the just egg because I'm a huge just egg fanatic. And so my husband and I usually buy a few cartons at a time. So to be able to just keep getting more and more just egg and not take part is really fun. It's incredible that really good. They put a lot of attention. And again, I'm excited for the food in Mexico because everyone knows, you know, I am biased being Mexican indigenous American, but I think the food is going to be the best next year. Oh, I can't wait. Yeah, there were parfaits, there were chocolate mousse, there was scrambled tofu. And it also, so things. And what I love about, I think every AVA summit is that the restaurant in the hotel has a special menu for whoever is attending the AVA summit. So it's a special vegan menu that you can order from. And I love that. I love the thought behind it. And to, there's so many meetups where folks are getting together and inviting each other out to go to dinner and Ryan and I went on a little pastry crawl with some friends and we found vegan donuts, vegan biscuits, vegan scones, everything under the sun. So that was really awesome. A huge part of it is getting to explore the local restaurants and there's so many recommendations in the app and on the meetup chats that there's anything you could want to eat you can find vegan. Did you find any vegan food at Niagara Falls, Andrea? We did. We found one vegan option and it was a doll and it was actually really good. Fairy over price, but I was just grateful to eat. Yeah, and I guess I wish to highlight one restaurant in Toronto. I think it's called vegan Buddha. It's great. It has been around offering vegan food since 1991, I believe. And it's just amazing. It's cheap and the portions are enormous and it was good food, good quality, hard-warming food. That's awesome. Okay. I want to talk about the speaker part of it. What if you become a speaker at the AVS summit? It's an option and you can apply to become a speaker. It's very competitive. Now I think that only 5% of applicants get approved to become AVS summit speakers. I might talk, got approved, Katie's talk, got approved too. Andrea, you were supposed to do a panel with other, you know, faith activism leaders, some kind of enter faith initiative. That was not approved for this year, but it was usually the case for previous years. So first of all, the task of applying to become a speaker. How is that? Is it easy? I think it's easy enough. The hardest part for me definitely is you kind of, you create this pitch for what you want to talk about. And so you give like a description and you say like, what format you think it'll be in and then you find out if it's accepted or not. And then for me, the harder part is if it's accepted, then going and creating the event after you've pitched it. So sometimes I like pitch the event and then kind of forget about it. And they're like, oh, you're accepted and you're like, oh my gosh, what was I thinking a month ago? What did I intend on this presentation being and then kind of having to build a presentation off of that pitch? But there are certainly other ways to do it where you can have a presentation ready to go that you apply with. I'm more of a last minute person. So I tend to not do it that way. And speaking on the panel not being approved, it's kind of nice because it just shows AVA doesn't want to do the same thing every year, which is really great. We don't want to go back and learn the same things. We're getting different aspects. Katie hosted a tow trivia, which was one of my favorite parts about the summit this year. It was so fun. And it's just so much knowledge that I didn't have before. And the good thing is you don't have to speak within the scope of the organization you're representing. Like you both did not speak in regards to Dharma voices for animals. And that's good because you have this knowledge outside of DBA. So for folks who maybe work with an organization, you can pitch something that you have knowledge that you just want to share. And it's not tied to your organization. It's very neat that everyone has the opportunity to do it. Yeah. And AVA, I think, really encourages folks to think outside of the box and speak about things that aren't normally covered at AVA. So I think talking about toads was something that was outside of the mainstream and then having a trivia event. I just wanted there to be something fun, a little more exciting and enjoyable than just sitting and listening to another presentation. So it was a good way to shake things up, I think. It was really fun. I still have my own, he's in my makeup counter. Yeah, I really enjoyed your presentation, K.E. I learned a lot about frogs and my local frogs because it was focused on North American frogs, I think. Yeah, it was really fun. And I was doing the trivia thing with the winner of Old Bunty Saddi, our president, who's a monk, and it was really funny getting his take on what kind of toads this is, looking at pictures, I think that was part of the trivia. Yeah, anyway. Yeah, how was doing the talk itself, K.E? Was it nerve-wracking because it was for mine? Yeah, absolutely. And I know Ryan, you had some technical issues. I had some too and I think one thing, if I could give feedback to ABA is having gaps between folks speaking in the room. So with the trivia, it required some setup. I had to put out papers, like pamphlets, the answer sheets, and there was a talk in the same room right up until the time that my talk started. So I started my talk, 10 minutes late and you only have a certain amount of time. And then there was an issue hooking up the audio. So with all of that, I was pretty shaken up. But I think once you're up there and you're having fun and you're seeing people engaged, I think you kind of settle into a flow. And it seemed like you definitely did Ryan for your talk. Yeah, thank you for saying that, K.E. In the middle of my talk, and I told you this before, but I thought, I think I can't do it anymore. I think I'll just have to get off the stage and walk away. This is too much. This is too nerve-racking. Because also my talk passes for an hour. I mean, an hour up there, yeah, it wasn't. It was the first one of the whole event, like early morning, what is this about? Big audience, right? Huge. I think there had to have been at least 50 people in your talk, Ryan. Oh, nice. Don't say that. I'm not sure it's a good thing. Okay. And also, there's a photographer who walks around and just takes pictures of everyone who is presenting, which I think adds to this stress level because all of a sudden, you have to pause for that photo. Yeah. Did you feel like you were having paparazzi? Yeah. And that person took a lot of pictures of me. I mean, I think it was her practice, like before the start of the day and the whole event. This guy, I'll use him as my test. It's life's right. Yeah. It wanted to photograph presentations because people are speaking too. So maybe some awkward faces. So you have to get a lot of a lot of images to get that right one. Definitely. Okay. Should we recommend to people to, you know, come up with an idea for a talk into apply to become a speaker. Yeah, absolutely. Like we were saying there's so much there's a wealth of knowledge out there that folks don't have access to and if we want to keep every year different then please don't be afraid, don't hesitate to apply. There's a good chance, you know, if you don't get it this time, maybe next time and we want to hear from you, we need this information to achieve the goal, which is animal liberation. So I know it's a little nerve wrecking even I, who is someone is considered, you know, a people person and outspoken I still get nervous when I go up there, but you think about who you're doing this for and that's the animals that we serve and once you have that in your mind, it gets a lot better when you're up there. And the audience is pretty, pretty friendly. It's an audience who's on your side, they're they're believing in what you're talking about usually if you're talking about animal rights, you know, so it's not like you're going into a hostile room where people are going to grill you with questions or anything like that. And I really think if anyone has any creative ideas or new event type things they would want to put on with a talk or a presentation, ABA is really looking to add some more uniqueness to their events and presentations. And again, if you're selected as a speaker, you'll be able to attend the event free of charge. So that's another argument. We mentioned the technical difficulties. This whole event is just such an operational prowess, you know, the organizers have my full admiration truly. Let me share just one story of, how I gained respect for them. I attended that meditation session that's the president of our organization hosted. And it was around, you know, I went there around 6 30 AM because it started at 7 AM. And the there were two organizers there in the corridor giving direction to participants of that workshop. And I thought they must have been there since what 5 30 6 like. And I know that, you know, they stayed late. And so they had almost like virtually zero sleep and still they're here and doing the good work. And yeah, I thought this is true commitment. Somehow they're still answering emails and who messages and they they're everywhere. Taylor and Barbie and the other folks who put together aBA, they're absolute superstars. Absolutely. And there's so much that goes into it that we wouldn't even think about or consider and they're so ahead of it. Like there were cough drops at the registration table and the little stickers in case your your ID broke just these small details that really, really show that they are thinking ahead and they are considering every possibility that could happen. And it's just this huge, task to make something like aBA happens that we're so grateful that they put this on because there's amazing things that grow from aBA. So we're all so lucky. Not just meeting funders, meeting fellow, you know, meeting future friends or connecting and developing future programs and initiatives. We met with the loving hot folks who we never considered working with them. We're probably going to collaborate with next year. And so it's just this beautiful space where we can share ideas and really, really help achieve animal liberation. And so thank you to everyone at ABA for just making it possible. Definitely. And I'm just sad that they weren't able because they're the organizers, they're working and so they're not able to fully enjoy the event itself. And it's weird how we have all different, like a drastically different experience of the event. So our event was a sharp thing, thing, you know, where we went from meeting to meeting and the ABA people, you know, they were the organizers. So they were thinking about all the those technical details, very type A personality. And, you know, I met people who were doing videos of the different speakers who interviewing them to create social media content. And they were in a room of the hotel. And I asked them, like, do you ever go out of that room? Like between interviews and they were like, no, this is our place of work. And we actually experienced the ABA summit through the interviews that we're doing in this room. I thought that's so fascinating. And so, you know, you'll get another take on the ABA summit, depending on who you're talking to. There's also a booth section that, you know, we haven't mentioned that. There are organizations who have a booth and you can go there anytime during the three day, four day event. And so those people I imagine have also drastically different experience of the event. Yeah, definitely. That is a really, really great part that you're right. We didn't mention as you have different organizations presenting their work. And it's a great way to find out what's going on in the space that you may not have been aware of. And that's actually how we connected with Violet Studios who did a complete rebranding for us last year. Our logo that had existed since about maybe 2011, 2012. And they completely redid it because we met them there in person. And so it's a great space to connect with folks. Katie, nothing to add. No, I guess I could say on a personal level to my partner and I are actually relocating across the country. And it's a little bit of an intimidating move. We're removing to an area that's pretty remote. And there's not going to be a lot of vegan options on all of vegan people. But we made connections with some folks. And in the conference who live right around that area and who we've already been messaging with who we're going to have the people that we know out there from going to the conference. So that's something that's really exciting to me. Now on the app, you can find folks who are coming from your exact city folks who attended your college. I didn't know some people went to the colleges. I went to that was so cool. You find folks now they have like interests. So we selected Buddhism and we were able to connect with fellow Buddhists there. It's an amazing app and very, very just a great way to connect with people. Okay, the dance party. So who organized that dance party? I'm not sure actually. I think maybe the venue they have an animal rights center in Toronto. And so that's where it was hosted. Loving Hut provided the food and the non-Akaholic cider, which was really fun. And we got to make recommendations of which songs we wanted to play. And I believe they're accepting donations for a sanctuary to get your song bumped up to the top of the list, which was really fun. A good way to earn some money for the sanctuary. But we had a blast. It's always like a middle school dance at the beginning where everyone's so afraid because you don't know how far you want to go into terms of letting yourself loose, but usually at the end of the night everyone's so comfortable with each other. And you make new friends that you didn't know before. And it was a really good time. We had a blast. Definitely. And I think to one of the cool parts of it is you see people who you may have been intimidated by earlier in the conference. We have a serious meeting with this person. And then you're fast forward to the last night on the dance floor and you're dancing right next to all these people. And it's just again another humanizing thing where we're all just letting loose after a long couple days of lots of busy, busy connections and meetings and talks presentations. And then we can all just dance it away. Yeah, I think that's the real danger of attending the ABA summit. The fun that all the fun that you'll get to experience. And we were told about different meetings with funders. We had a special day. They have a special day called Grantee Day, where it's an official meeting with some of the donors of this movement. And they said, well, be careful about how you spend the night prior to that day because some of the people who were supposed to participate in Grantee Day missed their Grantee Day meeting because they overslept. They spent the previous night at the bar just talking with fellow animal rights people. And yeah, they missed their donor pitch. They don't do that. Yeah, the hotel bars are really the fun place to connect with people. But ABA is a marathon, not a sprint and definitely budget in time to rest for yourself and make sure you have your priorities straight for sure. Yeah, and we all came in the day before to you know, prevent not that we would be at the bar. obviously not, but you know, to get some sleep to make sure we're well rested. It's like, night before a short take, you're not going to hit the town. So it's very important to make sure that you prioritize it. And that's such a fun and unique experience that they offer grantee day. We send out our pitch ahead of time. These big funders who you may have never been on their radar get to see what you're doing and then they get to meet you in person. It's so cool. It's kind of like speed dating. We had two folks who were in our session, which was really, really great to just connect with them at the same time. And it's very, very, I'm grateful that ABA offers it. It's very cool. Yes. And when our treasure, Alan, who was a past guest of the show actually was telling me that he had a long conversation. One of the most interesting conversations he had in recent years. And he ended up staying awake until very late at night. I think he went to sleep at two in the morning or something. Yeah. He said, I haven't done that in like years. And yeah, so there's that danger and it's a real danger of having two interesting conversations with people. And yeah, it's, it's fun. Very fun. Okay. So as a reminder, as a reminder, people become a donor of Dharma Voices for Animals. You'll get, you'll receive as a monthly donor an amazing art print from an incredible wildlife artist. I have two of his prints. And I truly love them. They bring so much light and beauty in my home. And so I highly recommend you to become a donor of this beautiful little animal rights organization that is doing such amazing work. Thank you so much. So anything else? Anything more to add? Katie, Andrea? I think that's good. Support DBA. Come to the ABA next year. We hope to connect to be you in person. Yeah, definitely. It's going to be worth, you know, whatever you have to spend on it. It's really an investment in yourself too. If you're not coming with an organization, so I highly recommend folks, you know, make an effort and get out to Mexico next year. Great. So thank you again, Andrea, Katie, for having accepted my invitation to talk about our time at the ABA summit. It's great to remember what we were up to. Thank you, everyone for listening. I kindly invite you to share this podcast with the vegans, you know. Let's encourage more people to take action. Again, thank you so much for caring. And I will see you next Tuesday for a new episode.