566. The Meaning Of: There’s No Such Thing as a Dragon

low energy unfocused foggy you might be dehydrated whether it's hot yoga over 100 degree weather or too much sun gator light with a specialized blend of five electrolytes was scientifically designed to help move fluids into the body faster for rapid rehydration shop now at retailers nationwide gator light hydrates faster than water is it in you symptoms noted are signs of mild to moderate dehydration consult a health care professional if symptoms persist this episode is brought to you by state farm listening to this podcast instead of doom scrolling smart move another smart move getting help from one of state farm's 19 000 local agents when you choose to bundle home and auto bundling just another way to save with the personal price plan prices are based on rating plans that vary by state coverage options are selected by the customer availability amount of discounts and savings and eligibility vary by state for a limited time you can get a big mac meal for just eight dollars that's a burger fries and a drink they don't call it an extra value meal for nothing get a big mac meal only at mcdonald's price and participation may vary promotion pricing may be lower than meal pricing so recently i recorded some analysis of children's stories once again i had done this years ago with pinocchio and the lion king uh that was part and parcel of the lectures that i did at harvard and at the university of toronto more recently i recorded an analysis of snow white the grimm's brother version and also of hansel and gretel i'm going to continue that today with a more recent book a much more recent book called there's no such thing as a dragon the story and pictures by jack kent i used to read this to my maps of meaning class often as the first lecture because it touches on themes that are very important to me and i'm going to very relevant to a narrative understanding of the world a description of the structure through which we see the world is a story and the motifs in stories represent cardinal elements of all of the environments that we encounter and i'll try to make that clear today in the discussion of there's no such thing as a dragon i want to show you um a dragon that i have in my office here this is a sculpture from mexico which i got several years ago um it's a circle basically and it has a the head of a bird kind of a monstrous bird and it has wings like a dragon or like a bird and it has a snake wrapped around the bird's neck but it's a it's an analog of a dragon uh there's a book that i found very useful in my analysis of such things called an instinct for dragons by a man named david e jones and david jones offers uh essentially an evolutionary explanation for the concept of dragon he described a dragon as a tree cat snake bird like an amalgam of the features of tree cat snake bird and um those and of course there's the element of fire as well and so those are all elements of predator you might say the kind of predators that have been preying on us or our evolutionary ancestors for millions of years are we had tree dwelling ancestors 60 million years ago and so the dragon is an amalgam of of the motifs of predator that's a good way of thinking about it or of danger and the the dragon battle is a narrative condensation of the drama of human beings the fact that we have to encounter the terrible predatory unknown and to try to gather what's valuable that's hidden in it and to transform ourselves in that pursuit and to make our way forward as heroes and part of that is the ability to pay attention to careful attention to the things that we might want to put aside and avoid and that's what this little story is about billy bixby was rather surprised when he woke up one morning and found a dragon in his room it was a small dragon about the size of a kitten well so let's delve into the idea of dragon again so the book's title is there's no such thing as a dragon and whether or not something is real depends to some degree on your level of analysis so obviously bears are real and lions are real and komodo dragons are real and crocodiles are real and fire is real and so on and so forth and real. Is an amalgam of all those things real? Well, it's real in the way that an abstraction is real. It's real in the way that the word predator or danger is real, right? Because there's many diverse phenomena that are aggregated together in the notion, the conceptual notion of, say, predator or danger, but that has very little to do with the reality of the concept. Dragon is as real as predator, let's put it that way. Now, the dragon concept is broader than mere predator, because the dragon really stands for everything that lurks in the unknown as such, and everything would be the danger that's part and parcel of the unknown, which is the place that the predators. Aggregate, let's say, but also the promise. So out in the unknown, which is the land of dragons, there are terrible dangers and great benefit, hence the treasure that's associated with the dragon. And the dragon contact story is. The dragon fight story is really among the oldest narratives that we possess. So it's an ancient motif, and it makes itself, manifest in all sorts of stories. Billy Bixby was rather surprised when he woke up one morning and found a dragon in his room. It was a small dragon, about the size of a kitten. So why is that relevant? Well, Billy wakes up, and there's something that's different about his environment, and the difference makes itself manifest as something that's tiny to begin with, right? And he's attending to it. The dragon wagged its tail happily when Billy patted its head. So there's a moral already in the story there, which is that this little boy wakes up, and something unexpected occurs, and in principle, he could pretend it wasn't there, or he could be afraid, but he interacts with it voluntarily, and in consequence, this dragon is pleased. Billy went downstairs to tell his mother, there's no such thing as a dragon, said Billy's mother. And she said it like she meant it. Okay, so Billy's awake, and so he's playing the role of hero, and he's detected something anomalous and different, and he, in his juvenile heroic manner, has decided to interact with it voluntarily, and that's already tamed it to some degree, and now he brings it to the attention of the authorities. And the authorities essentially have already decided how the world is constituted, and their verdict is that there's no such thing as a dragon. And Billy's mother is insistent upon this. Billy went back to his room and began to dress. The dragon came close to Billy and wagged its tail, but Billy didn't pat it. If there's no such thing as something, it's silly to pat it on the head. Okay, so what's the psychological significance of this? Well, there are things that aren't to be talked about in many families. And in many households. And the attitude that reigns in households like that is that if we just pretend that the terrible thing doesn't exist, that it will go away. And that's a form of willful blindness. I can tell you a story about willful blindness. So in the Egyptian creation myth of Horus, Osiris, Isis, and Seth, there is a characterization of willful blindness as the cardinal danger that presents itself to the state. So here's how the story goes. Egypt is founded by a god hero named Osiris. And Osiris is a great awake hero like Billy when he was young. And he is the force or the spirit or the process that establishes the state. He ventures out into the unknown wilderness and renders it habitable like God, as he does in Genesis at the beginning of the biblical story. Now, Osiris establishes the state and becomes the ruler god of Egypt. But he has a brother named Seth. And Seth becomes Satan, through the Egyptian Coptic Christians as the centuries progress. And Seth is the dragon-like force, you might say, that always emerges to threaten the state. And Seth wants to overthrow Osiris so that he can become a ruler. And Osiris is willfully blind. And so he turns a blind eye to the machinations of his evil brother and in consequence is overthrown by Seth. And so why is that relevant? Well, it's because malevolence can make itself manifest in unexpected forms in your personal life, in your family life, in the community, in the state, in the nation, at every level. But the proclivity to turn a blind eye to the emergence of what's unknown and malevolent is part of the causal pathway to the devastation of the stable and productive state. So that's all underneath this little story. The dragon came close to Billy and wagged its tail. So now, you know, as a small dragon, it's also indicating its relatively benevolent intent. And so one of the lessons you might derive from this is the notion of that if you deal with a problem when it first wags its tail, then there's every reason to assume that it can be dealt with forthrightly and. Low energy, unfocused, foggy, you might be dehydrated. Gatorade Zero powders have been scientifically designed to help improve hydration balance in the body. With a clinically proven electrolyte blend and no artificial colors or flavors, great tasting hydration no matter what. No matter where you're going. Shop now online or at retailers nationwide. Gatorade hydrates better than water. Is it in you? Symptoms noted are signs of mild to moderate dehydration. Consult a healthcare professional if symptoms persist. Straightforwardly and maybe productively as well. And so that's why the dragon in its small form here is still a benevolent force, right? Something unknown can make itself manifest as a mere matter of interest. And if it's not, then it's a mere matter of interest. It's not ignored. It can be dealt with appropriately. But Billy didn't pat it. Okay, so now Billy has adopted his mother's stance of willful blindness and is applying it to the realities of his own experience. Billy washed his face and hands and went down to breakfast. The dragon went along. It was bigger now, almost the size of a dog. Okay, so now what's happening? Well, apparently, hypothetically, because the dragon, which is the anomaly, the predator, and also the place of possibility, because it's being ignored, it's growing. And so what's the moral of that story? Well, it's the same moral that you can derive from the Egyptian myth of Osiris and Seth. If you turn a blind eye to something, then it can grow until it becomes an overwhelming and demolishing force. And here's an example. Imagine that you get a tax notification in the mail from your local municipal authorities, and instead of dealing with it, you ignore it. You throw it in the garbage or you file it in some filing cabinet or in some file folder that you never planned to open. It's not like it just sits there maintaining its form. It mutates and shifts across time and grows into quite monstrous. And all the anomalies, the unexpected occurrences that could turn themselves into predators with time, have the proclivity to grow if they're ignored. And so this little book is a story about the danger of willful blindness. Billy sat down at the table. The dragon sat down on the table. This sort of thing was not usually permitted. So now you can see that the anomalous occurrence, the unexpected occurrence, the emergence of the predator or the unknown is starting to disrupt the stable subroutines of the family that make up tranquil domestic life and peace. Shopify powers millions of businesses worldwide, supporting everyone from established brands to entrepreneurs just starting their journey. You can create your professional business with Shopify's extensive library of customizable templates designed to reflect your brand's unique identity. Boost your productivity with Shopify's AI power tools that craft compelling products, descriptions, engaging headlines, and even enhance your product's photography, all with just a few clicks. Plus, you can market your business like a pro without hiring a team. Easily develop and launch targeted email campaigns and social media content that reaches customers wherever they spend their time, online or offline. If that's not enough, Shopify offers expert guidance on every aspect of commerce from inventory management, to international shipping logistics, to seamless return processing. If you're ready to sell, you're ready for Shopify. Sign up for your $1 per month trial period and start selling today at shopify.com slash jbp. Go to shopify.com slash jbp. Again, that's shopify.com slash jbp. This sort of thing was not usually permitted, but there wasn't much Billy's mother could do about it. She'd already said there was no such thing as a dragon. And if there's no such thing, you can't tell it to get down off the table. You see that sort of thing happening in families where a child has a behavioral problem that's being ignored by the parents. The assertion is that there's nothing wrong with the child, let's say, or the child's behavior. And so that assertion is perceived as the reality. And then the problem has the proclivity to develop until it gets entirely out of hand. And if the assertion has been made that there's no problem there, then no amount of evidence about the problem is sufficient to shift the circumstances. Mother made some pancakes for Billy, but the dragon ate them all. Mother made some more, but the dragon ate those too. That's another indication, let's say, that the dragon is associated symbolically with potential behavior problem on the part of Billy. This anomalous occurrence whatever it might be, is not only breaking the domestic rules with regards to its purchase on the table, but is also interfering with Billy's ability to eat. But mother has to ignore that. Mother kept making pancakes until she ran out of batter. Billy only got one of them. But he said that's all he really wanted. Anyway, so now Billy is lying about the problem that's interfering with even being able to eat to maintain his mother's fiction that there's no problem in the house. Billy went upstairs to brush his teeth. Mother started clearing the table. The dragon, who was quite as big as mother by this time, made himself comfortable on the hall rug and went to sleep. So now the dragon has grown to the point, because it's being ignored, where it's more than a match for mother herself. Had she admitted to the existence of the problem to begin with and dealt with it, when it first made itself manifest, it could have stayed small and friendly, but now it's large enough to be a match for her. By the time Billy came back downstairs, the dragon had grown so much he filled the hall. Billy had to go around by way of living room to get to where his mother was. "I didn't know dragons grew so fast," said Billy. "There's no such thing as a dragon," said mother firmly. So now we have the situation where something unexpected and forbidden has made itself manifest in the house, but everyone has decided to act as if it doesn't exist. And the consequence of that is it's growing to the point where it dominates the house and is making all normal activity exceedingly difficult. I'm sure you've been in households like that. Hopefully yours isn't one of them. Cleaning the downstairs took mother all morning, what with the dragon in the way, and having to climb in and out of windows to get from room to room. Okay, so this is a humorous way of dealing with the fact that if a problem emerges in a household and it's not dealt with, it can become so all-consuming that it makes all activity that should otherwise be simple and straightforward virtually impossible. So a behavioral problem that's emerged in the course of a child's development can have exactly that aspect, where there's denial, which is more like willful blindness. Willful blindness is a better way of thinking about denial. It's just refusal to attend and modify perception and conception in face of new evidence. The problem can get so large that nothing simple is simple anymore. If there's unresolved conflict between a husband and a wife, for example, it can get to the point where it's possible for them to have a simple conversation about day-to-day things because of the catastrophe, the dragon, that no one will speak about. Maybe the suspicion of an affair, for example, or some other fundamental manifestation of mistrust that's polluting and paralyzing the relationship to the point where nothing can be done in a simple manner. Okay, so now Mother, who's a somewhat tyrannical and rigid sort, has decided so emphatically that the dragon doesn't exist, that she's willing to put up with a tremendous amount of unnecessary trouble to maintain her delusion. She won't attend to the end. Anomaly, let's say, to the trouble, even though it's beginning to interfere with everything that she does. By noon, the dragon filled the house. Its head hung out the front door, its tail hung out the back door, and there wasn't a room in the house that didn't have some part of the dragon in it. If you've lived in a street with a household that has a substantial amount of trouble, you've seen exactly this phenomena, where the house is dilapidated. And the lawn is abandoned, and there's a miasma of negativity that surrounds the household, and you know that there's something monstrous going on inside it that's pathologizing not only the inhabitants of the house, but beginning to spread out into the neighborhood itself. Then you've experienced exactly the situation that's being described in this book. That's exactly the kind of household that people will walk across the street to avoid if they're going somewhere. When the dragon awoke from his nap, he was hungry. A bakery truck went by. The smell of fresh bread was more than the dragon could resist. The dragon ran down the street after the bakery truck. The house went along, of course, like the shell on a snail. Okay, so now because the dragon was hungry, the dragon ran down the street, and now because the dragon was hungry, the dragon ran down the street. With a clinically proven electrolyte blend and no artificial colors or flavors. Great tasting hydration, no matter where you're going. Gatorade, hydrates better than water. Is it in you? Consult a healthcare professional. If symptoms persist, it's been ignored because the problem has been ignored because the household is rigid and tyrannical in its presuppositions. The dragon has got so large that chaos rules the house instead of order. And the trajectory of the family is being determined by the emergent property that no one has the courage to deal with. The mailman was just coming in. He was just coming in. He was coming up the path with some mail for the Bixby's when their house rushed past him and headed down the street. He chased the Bixby's house for a few blocks, but he couldn't catch it. Yeah, well, there's plenty in that too. So the mailman is a representation of the order of the state, let's say, and the household has become so chaotic at this point that the state itself can't deliver its message to the inhabitants. And so you can imagine what happens if your household becomes so chaotic that it's not able to deliver its message to the inhabitants. And so you can imagine what happens if your household becomes so chaotic that it runs away, so to speak. And so you don't get your mail and you don't get your notifications. And all that does is aggregate a lot more chaos around you and cause all sorts of long-term trouble and turn into this vicious, self-devouring spiral that's like a dragon that eats its own tail, which is a symbol of exactly that. And all hell breaks loose. When Mr. Bixby came home for lunch, the first thing he noticed was that the house was gone. Luckily, the house was gone. The house was gone. The house was gone. One of the neighbors was able to tell him which way it went. So there's a real tragedy brewing in this story because, well, this happens to people, doesn't it, when a father, let's say, comes home from work and finds that the locks have been changed and his wife has gone with the kids. And the question is exactly what happened. And the answer is invariably there was a terrible dragon in the house that killed him. could have hypothetically been attended to when it was still small, but that was ignored studiously by all who were involved and grew to the point where it dominated the entire house so that everything became cataclysmically difficult. And then it ran off with the house itself. And the man comes home and the house is gone, so to speak, because the dragon ran away with it. And his response is, I never saw it coming. And the first question that you might ask about that kind of response is, maybe that's because you didn't look, right? You, there were warning signs of a thousand different kinds, making themselves manifest in a thousand different directions, parts of the dragon scattered all over hell and all over hell's half acre, but never underestimate the, what, the, the insistence that someone who does not want to see, brings to bear on the maintenance of their blind delusion. And so Mr. Bixby's house ran away because he wasn't paying enough attention to what was going on inside it. Mr. Bixby got in his car and went looking for the house. He studied all the houses as he drove along. Finally, he saw one that looked familiar. Billy and Mrs. Bixby were waving from an upstairs window. Mr. Bixby climbed over the dragon's head onto the porch roof and through the upstairs window. How did this happen? Mr. Bixby asked. It was the dragon, said Billy. There is no such thing, mother started to say. There is a dragon, Billy insisted, a very big dragon. And Billy patted the dragon on the head. Okay. So now I want to tell another story that's associated with this. So this is from the Exodus narrative, near the end of it, the Exodus narrative. This is the story of Moses leading the Israelites away from tyranny through the desert to the promised land. And it extends over a number of Old Testament books, Exodus, Numbers, and Leviticus. If I remember correctly, this story takes place when the Israelites are just on the cusp of their movement from the desert to the promised land. So they go from tyranny, which is the rigidity, let's say, that Mrs. Bixby makes manifest in this story, to the desert, which is a descent into chaos, before moving towards the promised land, which is the better future. Now, it's the fact of the intermediary desert. That makes the tyrant who won't awaken, that motivates the stubbornness of the tyrant who won't awaken. Mrs. Bixby doesn't want to contend with the dragon because she would have to abandon some of her presuppositions about the state of the household and the world. And that would throw her into a state of at least temporary confusion and perhaps serious confusion. And that would throw her into a state of at least temporary confusion. So you don't go from conviction to new learning like this. You go from conviction to chaos and confusion to new learning. And the fact of the intermediary chaos and confusion is enough to dissuade people from attending, let's say, to the dragons when they make themselves manifest. Okay, so the Israelites are on the cusp of moving to the promised land. They're close to getting where the they're close to finishing the voyage in the manner that's been promised. But they lose faith and they get whiny and complain and they get bitter and resentful. And they lose faith in the voyage forward to the promised land. And they carp and complain and they criticize Moses and they turn away from the divine intuition that's leading them forward. And because of that, God sends poisonous snakes to bite them. Now, poisonous snakes are dragons for all intents and purposes. Their bite is the bite of fire, although fire is also a predator. And so the emergence of the poisonous snakes is a narrative representation of the manifestation of dragons. in consequence of the Israelites faithlessness. And so, their refusal to walk the proper path dooms them to encounter with the poisonous serpents. Okay, so now there's poisonous serpents, let's call them small dragons, everywhere, and they're getting bit, and that's not good. And so, they go to Moses, because they know he has a pipeline to the divine, and they say, we know you can talk to God, and we're sick and tired of being bit by these poisonous snakes, and we're willing to do what's necessary to deal with them. Maybe you could, we're willing to do what's necessary to put us back in God's good graces. Maybe you could ask him to call off the snakes. And so, Moses has a chat with God, and God, who sent the snakes, decides that he's not going to get rid of them. Instead, he's going to kill them. And so, he's going to kill them. And so, he does something very unexpected. He asks the Israelites to gather all their bronze together, like they gathered gold together in an earlier episode to make the golden calf, which they drunkenly and orgiastically worship. They gather all their bronze together, and they're to cast a stake, like Moses' staff, a tree, a flagpole, a foundation pole, and to put a serpent on it, cast in bronze, that's large enough so that the Israelites can see it at some distance. And then, so they're to cast that, and then they're all to go look at it. And if they look at it, then they won't be low energy, unfocused, foggy. You might be dehydrated. Gatorade zero powder. Gators have been scientifically designed to help improve hydration balance in the body. With a clinically proven electrolyte blend, and no artificial colors or flavors. Is it in you? Affected by the poison. And so, the Israelites all go, they gather up their bronze, and they cast this staff, tree, flagpole, and they put a serpent on it, and they all look at it voluntarily. And in consequence, they're no longer affected by the poison. So, the snakes don't disappear, but now the Israelites are fortified enough so that they're immune from the poison. And then, that's a symbol, that stake with a serpent wrapped around it. It's a symbol of healing. It's the staff of Asclepius. It's the symbol that pharmacists and physicians use. And the upshot of the story is that voluntary confrontation in measured doses with what might otherwise poison you, what might otherwise poison you, strengthens and redeems you. And so, that's the principle, let's say, of a vaccine, where you take a small amount of what would otherwise kill you, and that's the principle of a vaccine. And so, that's the principle of learning itself, because when you learn, you encounter something that is challenging and difficult, and that might reshape you dramatically, and that might even knock you into the desert before it takes you to the promised land. And you stand on that edge of discovery voluntarily, and in consequence, you become much stronger, which is what Billy was trying to do at the time. And so, that's the principle, let's say, of a vaccine. And so, that's the principle of a vaccine. She was a little bit of a pain in the ass. Is it in you? His father can see and he joins forces with his father who can now see and the conjoined union of Horus, who's the vision that's willing to admit to the existence of malevolence and the tradition that can now see, that's Osiris, that becomes the ruling spirit of Egypt and is the model for the Egyptian pharaohs when they're ruling properly. And so Billy is a avatar of Horus and he's willing to cast a brave eye on the existence of the dragon and to interact with it. The dragon wagged its tail happily. Then, even faster than it had grown, the dragon started getting smaller. Soon, it was kitten-sized again. Well, you know, in the Garden of Eden, there's a serpent and you might ask, well, why would there be a serpent in a garden that God had created? And the answer is, is, well, when you bind a space, you can't completely separate it from what's outside of it. The fact of what isn't in the space is going to make itself manifest inside the space. So, for example, you can't keep your children completely protected from outside influences. They're going to come into your house one way or another. And if you're so protective that you don't let your children have any contact with the outside world, then you become the malevolence that you're trying to protect them from. And so, there's no way of binding a space without having some anomaly or some inconsistency or some of what's unexpected inside that space. And so, then the question is, how do you deal with the fact of the eternal serpent in the garden, let's say? And the answer is laid out in the Exodus story and in the crucifixion, which is that you don't attempt to make the space secure. You attempt to make yourself brave and forthright enough to admit to and attend to the trouble in your household and in your psyche and in your state and to contend with it. And in consequence, you get braver and more well-constituted and then chaos and order can coexist happily and productively. Productive peace and interesting adventure, interesting, playful adventure can make themselves manifest. Then even faster than it had grown, the dragon started getting smaller. I don't mind dragons this size, said mother. Why did it have to grow so big? I'm not sure, said Billy. But I think it just wanted to be noticed. So, what? For a limited time, you can get a Big Mac meal for just $8. That's a burger, fries, and a drink. They don't call it an extra value meal for nothing. Get a Big Mac meal only at McDonald's. Price and participation may vary. Promotion pricing may be lower than meal pricing. Close your eyes, exhale, feel your body relax, and let go of whatever you're carrying today. Well, I'm letting go of the worry that I wouldn't get my new contacts in time for this class. I got them delivered free from 1-800-CONTACTS. Oh my gosh, they're so fast. And breathe. Oh, sorry. I almost couldn't breathe when I saw the discount they gave me on my first order. Oh, sorry. Namaste. Visit 1-800-CONTACTS.com today to save on your first order. 1-800-CONTACTS. The Viore Core Short moves with you. With everyday versatility and classic athletic fit. It's the one short for everything. Everything your day brings. Invest in your happiness. And get 20% off your first purchase at Viore.com slash Core20. That's V-U-O-R-I dot com slash K-O-R-E-2-0. Exclusions apply. Visit the website for full terms and conditions. It's the moral of the story. Don't be thinking that dragons aren't real. That's the first moral. And what's the second moral? If you attend to them when they first make themselves manifest, then they won't run away with your house. And that's Story Hour with J.B.P. today. Thanks very much for your time and attention. Bye-bye.